WEBVTT - Kate Fagan on Redefining Creativity 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:07.040 Hey, Bessie's Hello Sunshine. Today on the bright side, it's 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:10.440 an all new shelf life. We're talking ambition and going 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:14.560 after your big dreams with author Kate Fagan. Her debut novel, 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:17.040 The Three Lives of KK, is the January pick for 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:20.600 Reese's Book Club and was one of Time Magazine's most 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.239 anticipated novels of twenty twenty five. 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:25.400 It's Thursday, January thirtieth. 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:28.800 I'm Simoan Boyce, I'm Danielle Robe and this is the 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:34.440 bright side from Hello Sunshine. We have another shelf life 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:37.959 coming your way today. You may recognize Kate Fagan's name. 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.479 She's an Emmy Award winning sports journalist and commentator who 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:45.000 made her mark on ESPN, frequently appearing on Around the 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:47.680 Horn and Outside the Lines. She's also a New York 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:51.000 Times bestselling author, known for What made Mattie Run, The 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.600 Reappearing Act, and All the Colors Came Out. Now, she's 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:57.560 stepping into a new territory with her first novel, The 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:00.760 Three Lives of KK, and it's all ready Orese's book 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.880 Club pick for January. Though it's fiction, the book is 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:06.800 structured like a memoir, offering an intimate look at what 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:10.720 it's like to chase big dreams. Because, let's be honest, 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.720 we all have that seed within us, don't we. This 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:16.840 story follows the journey of an elusive novelist who, for 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:21.760 the first time, decides to reveal her true identity poof 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.120 Trust me, you'll want to be along for the ride. 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.920 Ultimately, it's a story rooted in friendship, love, and boldly 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:29.119 pursuing our passions. 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:33.559 Let's bring her in, all right, Kate, calling in from Charleston. 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:35.000 Welcome to the bright side. 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:36.040 It's good to be here. 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:37.640 So you are known. 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:41.240 For writing nonfiction, but this time you took a really 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.600 big leap with a fictional memoir. And I call it 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:47.280 a big leap because at one point you admitted that 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.880 you didn't think you had the brain for fiction, which 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.080 I need to better understand. But you said you weren't 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:56.160 sure how to tap into your imagination, and yet here 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.840 you are proving yourself wrong. What was happening in your 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:02.360 life life when you decided to really go for this 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:03.240 and take the leap. 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:05.520 I think I was just. 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:10.160 At a turning point of sorts, even though I wouldn't 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:13.480 have known that at the time, where I really was 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:19.040 ready to not focus on sports and journalism anymore. And 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.880 I could have been good continuing to do that, especially 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:24.360 with everything happening in women's sports, but I also knew 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:28.920 it was time to try something different and learn a 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.440 whole different area, and that for me, the one that 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:34.760 had always been calling to me was fiction. Like it 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.600 was always the thing when I was like what industry 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:40.880 would I love to like crack into, and it was fiction. 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:43.120 It was always like I always came back to that. 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.840 So I had tried so many times, but not with 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:48.680 like my whole self, like. 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:50.400 Not fully invested. 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:53.760 Yeah, and then and for lots of reasons, we can 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:57.240 get into like stories I was telling myself. But finally 0:02:57.240 --> 0:02:59.160 I was like, no, I am going to try I'm 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:01.000 going to try this. I'm to try it for real. 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:04.760 Now, how do you get past such a deep limiting 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:07.240 belief because saying that you didn't think you had the 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:11.120 imagination for it, that's a that's a pretty. 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:12.919 Big barrier in your own mind. 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.440 Did you have a conversation with somebody that set it 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.440 off for you or what was the spark? 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.080 I think what really was a turning point for me 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:27.480 was setting out on this draft and like committing to 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:32.840 myself that no, matter how the dicey plot points got, 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:35.320 no matter how much I would write myself somewhere that 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.600 I was like, that's not working, no matter no matter what, 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:42.200 I was going to get to the end. So I 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:44.960 put parameters in place to overcome what I thought was 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:48.120 like a limitation of imagination and other problems I thought 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:49.320 I had from the outset. 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:52.000 That makes sense, and just. 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.440 To double down in this imagination things. I think it 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.200 is a I think people could relate to this idea. 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.480 When I say that I didn't think I had the genation, 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:05.120 it was because of how frequently I heard authors at 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.600 their book talks or talking on podcasts talking about how 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:10.720 they were as a kid and that they were like 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:13.840 out in the yard make would make believe friends, and 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:15.480 like the friends would talk to them and they would 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:18.120 have a whole story, and like they and everyone would 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:20.120 keep using this idea of like I have this rich 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:24.320 imagination and like I just like had zero overlap with that. 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:26.680 Like I would sit in the audience and be like, 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.359 that is not my experience, Like my brain was always 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:34.640 sort of working overtime, but in it like taking real 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:37.320 life thoughts and like looking at them from every angle, 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.640 and like I didn't think that was imagination, and so 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:44.400 I had a disconnect about what imagination was as I started. 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.720 This project, What were you like As a child? 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.760 All I did was play basketball, like I you know, 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:55.440 and that is like its own sort of creativity and imagination, 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.640 But it's not the kind that we talk about when 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:02.719 we think about painting or art or writing or music. 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:07.800 It feels like very It's a very physical expression and 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:11.320 can often be associated with like determination and hard work 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:15.400 and not as much imagination in creativity. And so I 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:17.440 just had this story about myself that I was like 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.960 analytical and I was like detail focused, and I had 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.760 all of the attributes of like somebody who can make 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:27.240 themselves a successful athlete. But I never saw that translating 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.400 to the kind of flourishing creativity that I think we 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:31.360 often talk about. 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:36.360 I think everyone is creative, but I think we kind 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:40.360 of get shoehorned into these binary boxes in society where 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:42.880 it's like if I'm a basketball player, I can't be creative, 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.200 or if I'm an accountant, I can't be creative. But 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.440 I think deep down it's in our DNA, like we 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:52.560 had to be so creative and innovative. Our ancestors to 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:54.920 get us out of certain situations and to get us 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:58.000 to where we are now, and you just discovered it 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:00.080 later on in life. That's okay. 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.279 Yeah, And I think I also, you know, I think 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:07.239 a lot about this idea of like finding your passion 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:11.800 and thinking that that is a one off thing that 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:13.800 you have to have your whole life, as opposed to 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.320 being passionate about certain things for periods of time and 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:22.200 then being able to move on and have that be 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:26.960 an asset and not a detriment that you're like you 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:29.039 can't stay too long or like you didn't commit fully, 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:31.640 but like trying to actually harness that maybe I'm not 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.480 the person who can do the same thing their whole life, 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:36.880 but how can I make that work for me rather 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.200 than feeling like I'm just flitting from thing to thing. 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:45.080 It's encouraging also to hear that it's really a mindset, 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:49.480 I think, to sort of echoes among people feel as 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.720 if you're either born with it or you're not, and 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:55.360 your story proves that you can really tap into it. 0:06:56.040 --> 0:07:01.000 Yeah. I think really unlocking different life levels of what 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.920 my brain could do in terms of creativity was really 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:10.080 satisfying in the process of it, because I think maybe 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:14.400 a lot of aspiring writers or even writers, they inside 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:19.120 their minds, it looks like you're building a story. And 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:24.320 I really had the experience of almost chipping away at 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:26.840 the story. So it's felt more like sculpting than it 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:28.400 did like pottery. 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:30.000 Yeah. 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:34.080 Well, this theme of pursuing your passions and facilitating your 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.400 dreams is woven throughout this book. And I know that 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.600 it's not a memoir about you. It's not a memoir 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.160 about your life. However, you do share the same first 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:48.000 name as the titular character, so I'm curious because I 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.800 do know that you incorporated bits and pieces of your 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.760 own perspectives and your own experiences into this book. Yeah, 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:58.000 where does Kate Fagan end and Kate k begin? 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:05.240 I really think from the opening paragraph, it's like I 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:09.320 infused myself into this little girl who she is on 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.920 the opening pages because she's Kate k this famous author. 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:16.040 But in chapter one you see her as like a 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:17.400 nine year old girl. 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:19.240 And I think on that very. 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:21.640 First page where I put her in her favorite Tom 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:25.160 and Jerry's shirt, I feel like I sort of embodied 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:27.560 her for a second and then she became like and 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:30.440 then she went off on her way so I mean 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.440 that is to say that I think right from the beginning, 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:37.160 I needed a shell of somebody, and all I could 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.160 think of were like these like memories that had stuck 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:42.560 with me for reasons I wasn't sure of, just like 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:45.959 pieces of things, and I kind of gathered those up 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.520 and made the character of k K, who was born. 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:53.120 Annie, and I think then she just like became. 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:55.280 Her own person from there, Like I would never do 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:57.280 some of the things she did, but I really relate 0:08:57.320 --> 0:08:57.680 to them. 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:02.040 You've described this book as seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:06.959 meets firstly Wins, two of my favorite novels that I've 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:10.760 read in the past few years. So pretty great setup 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:14.319 for people who haven't read it yet. Can you describe 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:15.880 the plotline of the book? 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:20.240 Yes, So, The Three Lives of KK is about our 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:24.520 main character, kate K, and she's the most famous author 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:28.400 in the world. She's written this trilogy of books that 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.320 have sold over one hundred million copies, and it's this 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:35.280 dystopian franchise that has been made into blockbuster films and 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:39.520 all of the cultural phenomenon that comes with something like that, 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:43.480 except no one has ever known who Katek actually is 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:47.440 because it's a pseudonym that she has written under, and 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.719 despite magazine profiles and journalists trying to get to the 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.319 bottom of who this Kate k is, the public has 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:58.000 never known until this book, The Three Lives of KK, 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.760 which is the memoir of explaining to you going back 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:05.120 to her childhood and taking you through the twists of 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.400 fate and the trauma that has happened that has led 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:14.440 her to reject credit for this trilogy and this cultural 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:18.400 cachet that very few people would walk away from unless there. 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:20.040 Was a reason for it, and this book tells you 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:20.520 the reason. 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:23.760 It's time for a quick break. We'll be right back 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:36.720 to shelf Life with Kate Fagan. And we're back with 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:37.800 author Kate Fagan. 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:42.560 I think one of the things that readers will be 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:44.839 really drawn to, and I say think because I was 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.600 really drawn to it. It's the way you play with 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:51.080 the idea of truth and perspective throughout the novel, and 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:55.160 specifically tapping into the way we see ourselves, because I 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:58.360 think oftentimes we see ourselves really differently than other people 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.559 see us. Why was this something that you really wanted 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:02.160 to explore? 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.320 Well, I think really this choice that I made at 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:10.199 the beginning to frame this as a memoir. I did 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:13.760 it only for the reason of just knowing that as 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:16.920 somebody who has published memoir, I would understand the format 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:18.439 and it would help me find. 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.520 A voice in this piece. And so that was really 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:22.160 the motivation. 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:26.240 But then it started to help me along the way 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:30.559 really ask questions about if I have this first person 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.640 story being framed as a memoir, so you're getting everything 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:38.320 from kate K's perspective, I was like, I've done that before, 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:41.240 Like I have written that kind of book. I wrote 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:43.720 a book about coming out on my college basketball team 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:47.520 that had tension in it, and in the aftermath of that, 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.160 I had people in my life, specifically like my mom 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.080 and dad who were like, that's that one scene where 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.560 you called us and you told us, we don't that's 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:59.680 not how we remember it. And so I really was, 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:04.160 in the process of writing Katek drawn to the idea 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:08.440 of wanting to give readers like another level of understanding 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:10.520 of our main character, because it'd be one thing for 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:13.160 people to read, say, my memoir, and it'd be another 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:15.520 for them to like go out to dinner with me 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:19.040 and my mom and then understanding that like, oh, like 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.520 here's the memoir and the story we told, and here's 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:26.080 how the story is received within that memoirs world felt 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.800 like a totally other door to open for readers. And 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.480 I really wanted that because I don't think anybody in 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:37.680 this in k K is an unreliable narrator any more 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:43.360 than we are all misremembering small things or our brains 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:45.760 are like putting us in different places and memories. 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:45.920 Like. 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:49.360 No one in this book is like purposefully trying to 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:51.839 lie to you about their memories. They might be lying 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:54.960 to characters within it for their own purposes, but and 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.880 so I just really wanted to show how our memories 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:03.920 can be like throughout without any nefarious intent, can really 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.199 cause different, can cause harm in one case, or can 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:12.439 send us on a path that we had no necessary, 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:16.920 no intention of going down until life shifted in that way. 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:21.320 Kate, as you've been talking, I had this realization, and 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:24.160 that is this thing that you thought was your flaw, 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:30.560 your perceived inability to foster an imagination or this idea 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:33.440 that you were kind of stuck in this memoir space 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:38.560 and wanting to break out, that perceived flaw actually became 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:42.360 your superpower with this book. Because the fact that you 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.319 wrote it in the memoir format, which is something you're 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.320 so familiar with, is actually what makes it so distinct 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:49.480 and fresh for the reader. 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:54.040 It's kind of a cool realization to have when you 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:59.240 realized that you had certain skill sets and other parts 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:01.680 of how you operate that you thought wouldn't work for 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:05.760 a medium. I really think it was like halfway through 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:09.560 something clicked where I realized, like, oh, you think the 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:13.440 nonfiction part of your brain is like, is an onus 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:18.480 in this? Actually it is unlocking. It could unlock so 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.600 much more if you let it. And like an easy way, yeah, 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.960 an easy way to illustrate that is that, like whenever 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.239 I would have to do profiles of people for a magazine, 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:31.640 like usually an athlete, I'm on overdrive. Whatever time I 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.400 get with them. Sometimes it's only like three hours or somethings. 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:36.720 It might be like two days, and you're just like 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.080 observing everything because you're like what matters, what matters? 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:39.480 What matters? 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:39.640 Right? 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.160 You're like, Okay, what kind of coffee? How did they 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:42.920 call for that cab? 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:46.440 You're just you're desperate for the observation that you think 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.880 unlocks them as a person, so desperate that often you're 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.560 like trying to put things in places that don't work, 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:56.040 just like make connections. And like halfway through writing this book, 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.440 I was like, oh my gosh, like I have people 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.920 that I'm right and anything. I can make up any 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:06.200 detail I want and it can unlock something. And it 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:08.920 was like, Oh, that part of my brain over there, Like, 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:11.680 let's bring that part in because that is going to 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:15.440 be very helpful here. And so that made writing this 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:17.600 at times like a joy because it felt like, for 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:19.800 the first time I was like, Oh, I can do 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:25.239 creativity in my own way, and that was really nice. 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.400 I think that's such a beautiful message and realizing that 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.720 the things that we think are flaws could actually be 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:35.080 these latent superpowers. Having come from a career where you 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:39.880 observed the lifestyles of these high profile athletes, did you 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.840 take any observations from your work in that realm and 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:48.520 incorporate it into the relationships between the characters in terms 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:52.280 of ambition and how it impacts the characters. Yeah. 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.160 I think as a journalist, when you're very close to 0:15:55.680 --> 0:16:00.320 physically and oftentimes or like connected to people you would 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:01.360 write a profile on. 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.000 I mean that right. 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:06.440 There is like someone who is high achieving, somebody who 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:10.400 is like being received by the world in what many 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.600 people believe is like the most the wonderful way you 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:15.440 could like these elements of fame. 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:16.440 And value and money. 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:21.240 And I think there's two things that I saw with that. 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:25.000 I saw the strain it put on their lives. 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.240 Even the strain of like letting somebody like somebody write 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.960 a profile on you. That's a strain because you are 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:37.800 surrendering so much of how the world will perceive you 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.800 to being filtered through somebody else, and like that that's 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:43.120 really hard thing to like let happen. 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.760 And then also just the strain on their lives. 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.280 But the so and I tried to inject that into 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:54.320 the Three Lives of Kate k because whenever you're observing 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:57.560 closely celebrity of any kind, whether it's athletics or a 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:01.760 movie or whatever it is, you're you're questioning the value 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:05.040 of it, You're questioning the experience of it for that person. 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:08.080 And I wanted my characters to be in that world 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.119 doing the same thing, questioning the cost of fame, the 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:15.160 cost of their ambition. But then also, as somebody who 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:19.119 was writing profiles of people, you're also then dealing with 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:23.240 your own ego as the profile writer, where like you're 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:27.399 trying you're clearly in a subservient role of some sort, but. 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:30.560 You're trying not to see yourself like that, And so 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:31.000 you've got. 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:34.560 Your own personal dynamics at play with fame and celebrity. 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.040 Because there's not a lot of magazine profile writers who 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:39.560 don't want their own little bit of all of that. 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.840 So it just becomes this complicated world where people want 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:46.040 a lot of things, but they're not allowed to communicate 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:48.560 really honestly about all of the things they're going after 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:49.200 and desiring. 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.840 Yeah, I love hearing you unpack all this. 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:58.960 Try to pour it into the book as much as possible, 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:01.240 all of the obsessive thoughts about all of these things. 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:05.639 Yeah, that's a really healthy way of coping with obsessive thoughts. 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.120 Just write a book. Other people do far more dangerous things. 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.280 Right to do a lot of like really detailed heavy workouts, 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:13.440 like ninety minute long workouts, and write a book. 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:15.680 Good coping mechanisms. Yeah, there you. 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:17.560 Go, healthy ones for sure. 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:21.920 I want to talk about someone else who's poured into 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:24.240 you as a writer. I know you mentioned how important 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.119 it's been to share your writing with your parents, especially 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.920 your mom. And I understand she just passed away, which 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:32.520 is such a profound loss. 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:34.399 Kate, I'm so sorry, Oh thank you. 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:38.919 I'm curious how her presence, or even maybe now her absence, 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:39.959 has shaped your writing. 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:42.159 I think. 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:47.040 Starting from the baseline of like having a mom who 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:51.040 like just who really thinks you're great is like the luckiest. 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:52.240 Thing ever, and. 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:58.320 I really don't There's something about how deeply she believed 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:02.520 in everything I did that felt like it just counteracted 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:05.919 what the world tells you in a lot of ways, 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:08.560 like you know, like almost like in a metric way. 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.040 I always think when you talk about like something silly 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:15.040 like a good Reads review, you've got like the trolls 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:16.920 who are balanced by the people. 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:18.520 Who are always in your corner, you know. 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:22.879 Yeah, And like that having her always in my corner 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:24.680 and being lucky enough for it to be then your mom, 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:26.240 because you're like, oh my god, the person who brought 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:29.280 me into this world also thinks I'm amazing, just like 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.359 gives you a level of confidence that I don't think 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:37.000 is easy to come by any other way, and that 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:43.560 is infused in all of my choices. Just knowing that, 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:46.240 and it's the thing I like, it's like that you know, 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:48.760 you just can't replace that love. You just kind of 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.200 try to figure out how. 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.040 You're going to keep it in whatever shape you can 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:53.520 have it. 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:58.679 Still, absolutely thanks for sharing all that, Thanks for asking. 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:02.760 We have to take another short break, but we'll be 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.719 right back to our conversation with author Kate Fagan. 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:14.080 And we're back with Kate Fagan. 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:18.160 All right, Well, we've reached our favorite part of the show, 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:20.880 which is where we have our Reese's Book Club authors 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:23.840 read us a passage from their work. So let's go 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:26.760 ahead and give our listeners a little peek into this 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:29.359 scene that you're about to read for us. Will you 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:29.920 set it up? 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:34.040 Yes, So I'm going to read from chapter two from 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:38.520 Annie's perspective. So again, Annie is Kate k our main character. 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:40.320 But this is like the name she was born with, 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:44.040 and she's in Upstate New York where she grew up, 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:48.440 and this is the moment when she meets her best 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:52.560 friend best friend growing up, and it's nineteen ninety one 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:57.800 in upstate New York. What you need to know about 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:00.720 me and Amanda is that no friendship like ours had 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:04.840 ever existed. We basically redefined the media, elevated it to 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:07.920 an art form. Seriously. That's how we felt. We were 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:10.400 like all young people in that way, in full belief 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:14.680 that we were revolutionizing the human experience. Those older models 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:18.639 all failures. Let us show you how real living is done. 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:19.800 I'll set the stage. 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:23.680 Nineteen ninety one, summer in upstate New York, small town 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:27.399 theater camp opening morning. I was standing in line for registration. 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:30.000 The girl in front of me was wearing jelly sandals. 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.639 I complimented them. She made eye contact and said thank 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:37.359 you for noticing, which awed me the self possession of it. 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:41.560 We were nine years old, Amanda Kent ladies and gentlemen. 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:43.600 Turns out Amanda's home. 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:46.400 Life is only slightly better than mine. Her mom had 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:49.119 died giving birth to her little sister, Carrie, and her 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:51.560 dad spent all his waking hours beneath the hoods of 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:54.320