1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Hey, Bessie's Hello Sunshine. Today on the bright side, it's 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: an all new shelf life. We're talking ambition and going 3 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: after your big dreams with author Kate Fagan. Her debut novel, 4 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: The Three Lives of KK, is the January pick for 5 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: Reese's Book Club and was one of Time Magazine's most 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: anticipated novels of twenty twenty five. 7 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 2: It's Thursday, January thirtieth. 8 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: I'm Simoan Boyce, I'm Danielle Robe and this is the 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: bright side from Hello Sunshine. We have another shelf life 10 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,959 Speaker 1: coming your way today. You may recognize Kate Fagan's name. 11 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: She's an Emmy Award winning sports journalist and commentator who 12 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: made her mark on ESPN, frequently appearing on Around the 13 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: Horn and Outside the Lines. She's also a New York 14 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: Times bestselling author, known for What made Mattie Run, The 15 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: Reappearing Act, and All the Colors Came Out. Now, she's 16 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: stepping into a new territory with her first novel, The 17 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: Three Lives of KK, and it's all ready Orese's book 18 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: Club pick for January. Though it's fiction, the book is 19 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: structured like a memoir, offering an intimate look at what 20 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: it's like to chase big dreams. Because, let's be honest, 21 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: we all have that seed within us, don't we. This 22 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: story follows the journey of an elusive novelist who, for 23 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: the first time, decides to reveal her true identity poof 24 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: Trust me, you'll want to be along for the ride. 25 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 2: Ultimately, it's a story rooted in friendship, love, and boldly 26 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 2: pursuing our passions. 27 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,559 Speaker 1: Let's bring her in, all right, Kate, calling in from Charleston. 28 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to the bright side. 29 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 3: It's good to be here. 30 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 4: So you are known. 31 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: For writing nonfiction, but this time you took a really 32 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: big leap with a fictional memoir. And I call it 33 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: a big leap because at one point you admitted that 34 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: you didn't think you had the brain for fiction, which 35 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: I need to better understand. But you said you weren't 36 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: sure how to tap into your imagination, and yet here 37 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: you are proving yourself wrong. What was happening in your 38 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: life life when you decided to really go for this 39 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: and take the leap. 40 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 3: I think I was just. 41 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 5: At a turning point of sorts, even though I wouldn't 42 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 5: have known that at the time, where I really was 43 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 5: ready to not focus on sports and journalism anymore. And 44 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 5: I could have been good continuing to do that, especially 45 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 5: with everything happening in women's sports, but I also knew 46 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 5: it was time to try something different and learn a 47 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 5: whole different area, and that for me, the one that 48 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 5: had always been calling to me was fiction. Like it 49 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 5: was always the thing when I was like what industry 50 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 5: would I love to like crack into, and it was fiction. 51 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 3: It was always like I always came back to that. 52 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 5: So I had tried so many times, but not with 53 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 5: like my whole self, like. 54 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 3: Not fully invested. 55 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, and then and for lots of reasons, we can 56 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 5: get into like stories I was telling myself. But finally 57 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 5: I was like, no, I am going to try I'm 58 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 5: going to try this. I'm to try it for real. 59 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: Now, how do you get past such a deep limiting 60 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: belief because saying that you didn't think you had the 61 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: imagination for it, that's a that's a pretty. 62 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 4: Big barrier in your own mind. 63 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: Did you have a conversation with somebody that set it 64 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: off for you or what was the spark? 65 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 5: I think what really was a turning point for me 66 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 5: was setting out on this draft and like committing to 67 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 5: myself that no, matter how the dicey plot points got, 68 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 5: no matter how much I would write myself somewhere that 69 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 5: I was like, that's not working, no matter no matter what, 70 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 5: I was going to get to the end. So I 71 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 5: put parameters in place to overcome what I thought was 72 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 5: like a limitation of imagination and other problems I thought 73 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 5: I had from the outset. 74 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 4: That makes sense, and just. 75 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 5: To double down in this imagination things. I think it 76 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 5: is a I think people could relate to this idea. 77 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 5: When I say that I didn't think I had the genation, 78 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 5: it was because of how frequently I heard authors at 79 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 5: their book talks or talking on podcasts talking about how 80 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 5: they were as a kid and that they were like 81 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 5: out in the yard make would make believe friends, and 82 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 5: like the friends would talk to them and they would 83 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 5: have a whole story, and like they and everyone would 84 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 5: keep using this idea of like I have this rich 85 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 5: imagination and like I just like had zero overlap with that. 86 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 5: Like I would sit in the audience and be like, 87 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 5: that is not my experience, Like my brain was always 88 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 5: sort of working overtime, but in it like taking real 89 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 5: life thoughts and like looking at them from every angle, 90 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 5: and like I didn't think that was imagination, and so 91 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 5: I had a disconnect about what imagination was as I started. 92 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 2: This project, What were you like As a child? 93 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 5: All I did was play basketball, like I you know, 94 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 5: and that is like its own sort of creativity and imagination, 95 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 5: But it's not the kind that we talk about when 96 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 5: we think about painting or art or writing or music. 97 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 5: It feels like very It's a very physical expression and 98 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 5: can often be associated with like determination and hard work 99 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 5: and not as much imagination in creativity. And so I 100 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 5: just had this story about myself that I was like 101 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 5: analytical and I was like detail focused, and I had 102 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 5: all of the attributes of like somebody who can make 103 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 5: themselves a successful athlete. But I never saw that translating 104 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 5: to the kind of flourishing creativity that I think we 105 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 5: often talk about. 106 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 2: I think everyone is creative, but I think we kind 107 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 2: of get shoehorned into these binary boxes in society where 108 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: it's like if I'm a basketball player, I can't be creative, 109 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 2: or if I'm an accountant, I can't be creative. But 110 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 2: I think deep down it's in our DNA, like we 111 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 2: had to be so creative and innovative. Our ancestors to 112 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 2: get us out of certain situations and to get us 113 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 2: to where we are now, and you just discovered it 114 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 2: later on in life. That's okay. 115 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think I also, you know, I think 116 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,239 Speaker 5: a lot about this idea of like finding your passion 117 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 5: and thinking that that is a one off thing that 118 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 5: you have to have your whole life, as opposed to 119 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 5: being passionate about certain things for periods of time and 120 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 5: then being able to move on and have that be 121 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 5: an asset and not a detriment that you're like you 122 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 5: can't stay too long or like you didn't commit fully, 123 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 5: but like trying to actually harness that maybe I'm not 124 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 5: the person who can do the same thing their whole life, 125 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 5: but how can I make that work for me rather 126 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 5: than feeling like I'm just flitting from thing to thing. 127 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: It's encouraging also to hear that it's really a mindset, 128 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: I think, to sort of echoes among people feel as 129 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: if you're either born with it or you're not, and 130 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: your story proves that you can really tap into it. 131 00:06:56,040 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 5: Yeah. I think really unlocking different life levels of what 132 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 5: my brain could do in terms of creativity was really 133 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 5: satisfying in the process of it, because I think maybe 134 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 5: a lot of aspiring writers or even writers, they inside 135 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 5: their minds, it looks like you're building a story. And 136 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 5: I really had the experience of almost chipping away at 137 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 5: the story. So it's felt more like sculpting than it 138 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 5: did like pottery. 139 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. 140 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: Well, this theme of pursuing your passions and facilitating your 141 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 2: dreams is woven throughout this book. And I know that 142 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 2: it's not a memoir about you. It's not a memoir 143 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 2: about your life. However, you do share the same first 144 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 2: name as the titular character, so I'm curious because I 145 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 2: do know that you incorporated bits and pieces of your 146 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 2: own perspectives and your own experiences into this book. Yeah, 147 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 2: where does Kate Fagan end and Kate k begin? 148 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 5: I really think from the opening paragraph, it's like I 149 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 5: infused myself into this little girl who she is on 150 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 5: the opening pages because she's Kate k this famous author. 151 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 5: But in chapter one you see her as like a 152 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 5: nine year old girl. 153 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 3: And I think on that very. 154 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 5: First page where I put her in her favorite Tom 155 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 5: and Jerry's shirt, I feel like I sort of embodied 156 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 5: her for a second and then she became like and 157 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 5: then she went off on her way so I mean 158 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 5: that is to say that I think right from the beginning, 159 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 5: I needed a shell of somebody, and all I could 160 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 5: think of were like these like memories that had stuck 161 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 5: with me for reasons I wasn't sure of, just like 162 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 5: pieces of things, and I kind of gathered those up 163 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 5: and made the character of k K, who was born. 164 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 3: Annie, and I think then she just like became. 165 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 5: Her own person from there, Like I would never do 166 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 5: some of the things she did, but I really relate 167 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 5: to them. 168 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: You've described this book as seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo 169 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 1: meets firstly Wins, two of my favorite novels that I've 170 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: read in the past few years. So pretty great setup 171 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 1: for people who haven't read it yet. Can you describe 172 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: the plotline of the book? 173 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 5: Yes, So, The Three Lives of KK is about our 174 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 5: main character, kate K, and she's the most famous author 175 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 5: in the world. She's written this trilogy of books that 176 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 5: have sold over one hundred million copies, and it's this 177 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 5: dystopian franchise that has been made into blockbuster films and 178 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 5: all of the cultural phenomenon that comes with something like that, 179 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 5: except no one has ever known who Katek actually is 180 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 5: because it's a pseudonym that she has written under, and 181 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,719 Speaker 5: despite magazine profiles and journalists trying to get to the 182 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 5: bottom of who this Kate k is, the public has 183 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 5: never known until this book, The Three Lives of KK, 184 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 5: which is the memoir of explaining to you going back 185 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 5: to her childhood and taking you through the twists of 186 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 5: fate and the trauma that has happened that has led 187 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 5: her to reject credit for this trilogy and this cultural 188 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 5: cachet that very few people would walk away from unless there. 189 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 3: Was a reason for it, and this book tells you 190 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 3: the reason. 191 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 2: It's time for a quick break. We'll be right back 192 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: to shelf Life with Kate Fagan. And we're back with 193 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 2: author Kate Fagan. 194 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: I think one of the things that readers will be 195 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:44,839 Speaker 1: really drawn to, and I say think because I was 196 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: really drawn to it. It's the way you play with 197 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: the idea of truth and perspective throughout the novel, and 198 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: specifically tapping into the way we see ourselves, because I 199 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: think oftentimes we see ourselves really differently than other people 200 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 1: see us. Why was this something that you really wanted 201 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: to explore? 202 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 5: Well, I think really this choice that I made at 203 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 5: the beginning to frame this as a memoir. I did 204 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 5: it only for the reason of just knowing that as 205 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 5: somebody who has published memoir, I would understand the format 206 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 5: and it would help me find. 207 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 3: A voice in this piece. And so that was really 208 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 3: the motivation. 209 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 5: But then it started to help me along the way 210 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,559 Speaker 5: really ask questions about if I have this first person 211 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 5: story being framed as a memoir, so you're getting everything 212 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 5: from kate K's perspective, I was like, I've done that before, 213 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 5: Like I have written that kind of book. I wrote 214 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 5: a book about coming out on my college basketball team 215 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 5: that had tension in it, and in the aftermath of that, 216 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 5: I had people in my life, specifically like my mom 217 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 5: and dad who were like, that's that one scene where 218 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 5: you called us and you told us, we don't that's 219 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 5: not how we remember it. And so I really was, 220 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 5: in the process of writing Katek drawn to the idea 221 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 5: of wanting to give readers like another level of understanding 222 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 5: of our main character, because it'd be one thing for 223 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 5: people to read, say, my memoir, and it'd be another 224 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 5: for them to like go out to dinner with me 225 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 5: and my mom and then understanding that like, oh, like 226 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 5: here's the memoir and the story we told, and here's 227 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 5: how the story is received within that memoirs world felt 228 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 5: like a totally other door to open for readers. And 229 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 5: I really wanted that because I don't think anybody in 230 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 5: this in k K is an unreliable narrator any more 231 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 5: than we are all misremembering small things or our brains 232 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 5: are like putting us in different places and memories. 233 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 2: Like. 234 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 5: No one in this book is like purposefully trying to 235 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,839 Speaker 5: lie to you about their memories. They might be lying 236 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 5: to characters within it for their own purposes, but and 237 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 5: so I just really wanted to show how our memories 238 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 5: can be like throughout without any nefarious intent, can really 239 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 5: cause different, can cause harm in one case, or can 240 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 5: send us on a path that we had no necessary, 241 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 5: no intention of going down until life shifted in that way. 242 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 2: Kate, as you've been talking, I had this realization, and 243 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 2: that is this thing that you thought was your flaw, 244 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 2: your perceived inability to foster an imagination or this idea 245 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 2: that you were kind of stuck in this memoir space 246 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 2: and wanting to break out, that perceived flaw actually became 247 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 2: your superpower with this book. Because the fact that you 248 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 2: wrote it in the memoir format, which is something you're 249 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 2: so familiar with, is actually what makes it so distinct 250 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 2: and fresh for the reader. 251 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 5: It's kind of a cool realization to have when you 252 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 5: realized that you had certain skill sets and other parts 253 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 5: of how you operate that you thought wouldn't work for 254 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 5: a medium. I really think it was like halfway through 255 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 5: something clicked where I realized, like, oh, you think the 256 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 5: nonfiction part of your brain is like, is an onus 257 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 5: in this? Actually it is unlocking. It could unlock so 258 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 5: much more if you let it. And like an easy way, yeah, 259 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 5: an easy way to illustrate that is that, like whenever 260 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,239 Speaker 5: I would have to do profiles of people for a magazine, 261 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 5: like usually an athlete, I'm on overdrive. Whatever time I 262 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 5: get with them. Sometimes it's only like three hours or somethings. 263 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 5: It might be like two days, and you're just like 264 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 5: observing everything because you're like what matters, what matters? 265 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 3: What matters? 266 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 5: Right? 267 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 3: You're like, Okay, what kind of coffee? How did they 268 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 3: call for that cab? 269 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 5: You're just you're desperate for the observation that you think 270 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 5: unlocks them as a person, so desperate that often you're 271 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 5: like trying to put things in places that don't work, 272 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 5: just like make connections. And like halfway through writing this book, 273 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 5: I was like, oh my gosh, like I have people 274 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 5: that I'm right and anything. I can make up any 275 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 5: detail I want and it can unlock something. And it 276 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 5: was like, Oh, that part of my brain over there, Like, 277 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 5: let's bring that part in because that is going to 278 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 5: be very helpful here. And so that made writing this 279 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 5: at times like a joy because it felt like, for 280 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 5: the first time I was like, Oh, I can do 281 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:25,239 Speaker 5: creativity in my own way, and that was really nice. 282 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 2: I think that's such a beautiful message and realizing that 283 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 2: the things that we think are flaws could actually be 284 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 2: these latent superpowers. Having come from a career where you 285 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: observed the lifestyles of these high profile athletes, did you 286 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 2: take any observations from your work in that realm and 287 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 2: incorporate it into the relationships between the characters in terms 288 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 2: of ambition and how it impacts the characters. Yeah. 289 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 5: I think as a journalist, when you're very close to 290 00:15:55,680 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 5: physically and oftentimes or like connected to people you would 291 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 5: write a profile on. 292 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 3: I mean that right. 293 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 5: There is like someone who is high achieving, somebody who 294 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 5: is like being received by the world in what many 295 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 5: people believe is like the most the wonderful way you 296 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 5: could like these elements of fame. 297 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 3: And value and money. 298 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 5: And I think there's two things that I saw with that. 299 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 3: I saw the strain it put on their lives. 300 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 5: Even the strain of like letting somebody like somebody write 301 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 5: a profile on you. That's a strain because you are 302 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 5: surrendering so much of how the world will perceive you 303 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 5: to being filtered through somebody else, and like that that's 304 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 5: really hard thing to like let happen. 305 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 3: And then also just the strain on their lives. 306 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 5: But the so and I tried to inject that into 307 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 5: the Three Lives of Kate k because whenever you're observing 308 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 5: closely celebrity of any kind, whether it's athletics or a 309 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 5: movie or whatever it is, you're you're questioning the value 310 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 5: of it, You're questioning the experience of it for that person. 311 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 5: And I wanted my characters to be in that world 312 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 5: doing the same thing, questioning the cost of fame, the 313 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 5: cost of their ambition. But then also, as somebody who 314 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 5: was writing profiles of people, you're also then dealing with 315 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 5: your own ego as the profile writer, where like you're 316 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 5: trying you're clearly in a subservient role of some sort, but. 317 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 3: You're trying not to see yourself like that, And so 318 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 3: you've got. 319 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 5: Your own personal dynamics at play with fame and celebrity. 320 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 5: Because there's not a lot of magazine profile writers who 321 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 5: don't want their own little bit of all of that. 322 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 5: So it just becomes this complicated world where people want 323 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 5: a lot of things, but they're not allowed to communicate 324 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 5: really honestly about all of the things they're going after 325 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 5: and desiring. 326 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love hearing you unpack all this. 327 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 5: Try to pour it into the book as much as possible, 328 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 5: all of the obsessive thoughts about all of these things. 329 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really healthy way of coping with obsessive thoughts. 330 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 2: Just write a book. Other people do far more dangerous things. 331 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 5: Right to do a lot of like really detailed heavy workouts, 332 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 5: like ninety minute long workouts, and write a book. 333 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 3: Good coping mechanisms. Yeah, there you. 334 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 4: Go, healthy ones for sure. 335 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: I want to talk about someone else who's poured into 336 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: you as a writer. I know you mentioned how important 337 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: it's been to share your writing with your parents, especially 338 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 1: your mom. And I understand she just passed away, which 339 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: is such a profound loss. 340 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 4: Kate, I'm so sorry, Oh thank you. 341 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: I'm curious how her presence, or even maybe now her absence, 342 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:39,959 Speaker 1: has shaped your writing. 343 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 3: I think. 344 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 5: Starting from the baseline of like having a mom who 345 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 5: like just who really thinks you're great is like the luckiest. 346 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 2: Thing ever, and. 347 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 5: I really don't There's something about how deeply she believed 348 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 5: in everything I did that felt like it just counteracted 349 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 5: what the world tells you in a lot of ways, 350 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 5: like you know, like almost like in a metric way. 351 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 5: I always think when you talk about like something silly 352 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 5: like a good Reads review, you've got like the trolls 353 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 5: who are balanced by the people. 354 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 3: Who are always in your corner, you know. 355 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 5: Yeah, And like that having her always in my corner 356 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 5: and being lucky enough for it to be then your mom, 357 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 5: because you're like, oh my god, the person who brought 358 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 5: me into this world also thinks I'm amazing, just like 359 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 5: gives you a level of confidence that I don't think 360 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 5: is easy to come by any other way, and that 361 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 5: is infused in all of my choices. Just knowing that, 362 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 5: and it's the thing I like, it's like that you know, 363 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 5: you just can't replace that love. You just kind of 364 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 5: try to figure out how. 365 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 3: You're going to keep it in whatever shape you can 366 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 3: have it. 367 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: Still, absolutely thanks for sharing all that, Thanks for asking. 368 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: We have to take another short break, but we'll be 369 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,719 Speaker 1: right back to our conversation with author Kate Fagan. 370 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 4: And we're back with Kate Fagan. 371 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 2: All right, Well, we've reached our favorite part of the show, 372 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 2: which is where we have our Reese's Book Club authors 373 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 2: read us a passage from their work. So let's go 374 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 2: ahead and give our listeners a little peek into this 375 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 2: scene that you're about to read for us. Will you 376 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 2: set it up? 377 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 5: Yes, So I'm going to read from chapter two from 378 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 5: Annie's perspective. So again, Annie is Kate k our main character. 379 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 5: But this is like the name she was born with, 380 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 5: and she's in Upstate New York where she grew up, 381 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 5: and this is the moment when she meets her best 382 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 5: friend best friend growing up, and it's nineteen ninety one 383 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 5: in upstate New York. What you need to know about 384 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 5: me and Amanda is that no friendship like ours had 385 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 5: ever existed. We basically redefined the media, elevated it to 386 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 5: an art form. Seriously. That's how we felt. We were 387 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 5: like all young people in that way, in full belief 388 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 5: that we were revolutionizing the human experience. Those older models 389 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 5: all failures. Let us show you how real living is done. 390 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 3: I'll set the stage. 391 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 5: Nineteen ninety one, summer in upstate New York, small town 392 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 5: theater camp opening morning. I was standing in line for registration. 393 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 5: The girl in front of me was wearing jelly sandals. 394 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 5: I complimented them. She made eye contact and said thank 395 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 5: you for noticing, which awed me the self possession of it. 396 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 5: We were nine years old, Amanda Kent ladies and gentlemen. 397 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 3: Turns out Amanda's home. 398 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 5: Life is only slightly better than mine. Her mom had 399 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 5: died giving birth to her little sister, Carrie, and her 400 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 5: dad spent all his waking hours beneath the hoods of 401 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 5: cars running a repair shop in the next town over. 402 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 5: Amanda and her dad they got along fine, but he 403 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 5: was more like an uncle than a dad, and so 404 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 5: she was especially close with Carrie, who was four years younger. 405 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 5: The two were different in almost every way. Carrie had 406 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 5: light hair and loved playing with dolls. Amanda was essentially 407 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 5: the person Van Morrison is singing about in Brown Eyed Girl. 408 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 5: One other thing to know about Amanda. She loved clothes. 409 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 5: When we were young, she'd want me to come over 410 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 5: and play dress up. Her dad had kept all her 411 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 5: mom's old things in a box in the hallway closet, 412 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 5: clothes and makeup, and other stuff grown up women cared about, 413 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 5: like pantyhose, which seemed to me like a form of 414 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 5: medieval torture. Dress up wasn't really my thing, but I'd 415 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 5: bring a book and sit cross legged on the carpet 416 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 5: at the foot of Amanda's bed. She never minded my indifference. 417 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 5: She really just wanted an audience. She would disappear into 418 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 5: the hallway bathroom and I'd read a few pages. Then 419 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 5: she'd present herself in the doorway, do a quick spin 420 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 5: and a catwalk, strutting in and out of the room. 421 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 5: Nothing subtle in her performance. Clothes made sense on her, 422 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 5: which one afternoon she explained was the entire point of fashion. 423 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 2: I love that past so much, Thank you. 424 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: So we talked about how it was important for you 425 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: to include these different povs in your book, and one 426 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: of our listeners has a question about if you had 427 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: a specific lesson in mind for your readers. 428 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 4: So here's Tia. 429 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 3: Hi Kate, this is Tia. 430 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 6: I just finished reading your book, and I love how 431 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 6: your book includes so many perspectives of people from Kate's life, 432 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 6: Like there's a chapter from the man Man's POV and 433 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 6: it was so heartwarming because I just loved reading from 434 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 6: his point of view. And it seems like you were 435 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 6: really intentional about what characters were included in your story. 436 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 6: So I wanted to know was there a lesson or 437 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 6: a certain takeaway you wanted your readers to understand about 438 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 6: valuing others perspectives as you wrote the story. 439 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 3: That is such a fantastic question. 440 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 5: The lesson wasn't so much valuing other people's perspectives, although 441 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 5: that is a fabulous lesson. I really wanted to use 442 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 5: the different points view to show the way tiny miscommunications 443 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 5: can have snowball effects in our life, and it also 444 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 5: wanted to use them to expand Kate's world for you. 445 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 5: And in that way, I felt like choosing points of view, 446 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 5: even from very minor characters, sort of gave you like 447 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 5: a bigger. 448 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 3: Roadmap to her life. 449 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 5: And the most important one we felt like in that 450 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 5: endeavor was the point of view. 451 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 3: At the end and the wonderful question. 452 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 5: Just asked it of Carl the Mailman in one of 453 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 5: these last switch of points of view chapters, that we 454 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 5: really wanted to have somebody in the book who is 455 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 5: showing you ideas about life from a perspective that had 456 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 5: more experience, because so many of the characters in the 457 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 5: book are young, and even still young as they're talking 458 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 5: to you about their younger selves, and yet no one 459 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 5: is at a point in life in the book except 460 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 5: for Carl in that final chapter who can really look 461 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 5: at some of the folly of youth and the folly 462 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 5: of ambition and these different ideas from. 463 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 3: Like a different perch. And so it was less about 464 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 3: like a moral takeaway from the reader. 465 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 5: But now that I'm kind of talking through that, I 466 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 5: guess maybe some of the byproduct of it is just 467 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 5: being more respectful and being more empathetic to the way 468 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 5: someone else might see something or how something someone might 469 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,439 Speaker 5: impact somebody, because it's so easy to just assume we 470 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 5: all have the same interiority that's like your default state. 471 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 3: Until you kind of knock yourself out of it. 472 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 4: I had to think about that for a second. Kate. 473 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 4: I think you're right. 474 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: Now, you've crafted the best of both worlds in this 475 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: book by blending memoir and fiction so seamlessly. And I've 476 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,199 Speaker 1: heard whispers that you might be combining your worlds again. 477 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: Can you give us a glimpse as to what's on 478 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: the horizon for you, what's next on your creative journey. 479 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. 480 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,199 Speaker 5: So, one thing that I really purposely did with The 481 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 5: Three Lives of KK was didn't set it at all 482 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 5: in the sports world. Didn't want really anything to do 483 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 5: with sports in this book. There's like a passing reference 484 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:21,719 Speaker 5: to the Kansas Jayhawks, as like a nod to my 485 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 5: wife who grew up in Lawrence, Kansas. But other than that, 486 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 5: it was really purposeful because I had been wanting to 487 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 5: kind of prove that I could write something outside of 488 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 5: the sports backdrop as somebody who had been playing basketball 489 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 5: since I was eight in college, and then it felt 490 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 5: like it was like, can I define myself outside of sports? 491 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 5: Was a big question I had, and so purposefully this 492 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 5: book didn't. And now that I did that, as in 493 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 5: like write it and feel like it kind of stands 494 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 5: on its own. I missed the sports like I miss 495 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 5: I missed that, and I think the thing I'm working 496 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 5: on now it's another novel, but it's very much set 497 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 5: in the women's basketball world. There's like a team in 498 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 5: this long lost team from history because so much of 499 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 5: women's sports is lost to history from the nineteen fifties. 500 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 5: And that was like really important to me because I 501 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 5: just miss being a part of women's sports. Like it 502 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 5: is like those are those are my people, you know, 503 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 5: like people who love women's sports, people play women's sports, 504 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 5: Like those are the people that I want to be 505 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 5: in relationship with because they hold so many of the 506 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 5: same values. 507 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 4: I see that on TV too. 508 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: I feel like that once you write the novel, it 509 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: needs to become a mini series. 510 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 5: Yes, my joke is always like we did all the 511 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 5: men's sports. We did the horses, right, Like we got 512 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 5: the sea biscuits, like we got the air bud, We 513 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 5: even did the dog. So like now we can do 514 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,640 Speaker 5: some scripted women's sports stories, like there's some there's some 515 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 5: amazing ones in the history that have just been lost. 516 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 4: Oh wow, I would have loved to see those growing up. 517 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 5: Yes, the fact that like a league of their own 518 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 5: for me was like I had to just put myself 519 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 5: on their team. Yeah, and even though there was so 520 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 5: much about it, like I didn't play baseball, at least 521 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 5: so much. I had to make believe. But their camaraderie, 522 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 5: I was like, I want to sick. I want to 523 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 5: be a part of it. It's like that was the 524 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 5: one that's awesome. 525 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 1: Kate, thank you so much for joining us on the 526 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 1: bright Side. 527 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 3: Thanks y'all, it's been really fun. 528 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 2: Kate Fagan is the author of the Three Lives of 529 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,880 Speaker 2: Kate k and the January pick for Reese's Book Club. 530 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 2: It's available wherever you get your books. Tomorrow, we're popping 531 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 2: off with one of our favorite bright Side best ties. 532 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 2: It is the original Cheetah Girl, Raven Simon, y'all, along 533 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 2: with her wife and podcast co host Miranda Miday. Don't 534 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 2: miss it. Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side 535 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 2: and connect with us on social media at Hello Sunshine 536 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 2: on Instagram and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok Oh, 537 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 2: and feel free to tag us at Simone Boyce and 538 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:02,959 Speaker 2: at Danielle Robe. 539 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, 540 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 541 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 2: See you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side.