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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Donald Trump still hasn't withdrawn his

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Speaker 1: endorsement of North Carolina gubernatorial candidate Mark Robinson. We have

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Speaker 1: such a great show for you today, The Lincoln Projects.

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Speaker 1: Rick Wilson, host of The Enemy's List, talks about the

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Speaker 1: new lows that Trump plumbed the depths of in his

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin speech. Then we will talk to Team Human host

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Speaker 1: Doug Rushkoff about the update of his classic book program

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Speaker 1: or B Programmed eleven Commands for the AI Future.

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Speaker 2: But first the news.

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Speaker 3: So Bally, there has been a thing that we kind

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Speaker 3: of saw coming that Trump and the RNC are just

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Speaker 3: going to file tuns of lawsuits because they think they're

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Speaker 3: going to win this election by taking it up to

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Speaker 3: the courts.

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Speaker 4: George Bush two thousand style. You see it here.

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Speaker 1: So Mark Elias of Democracy Dockett, election lawyer who worked

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Speaker 1: with the Democratic Party now is on his own, actually

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Speaker 1: brought attention to the Times about this story. He's been

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Speaker 1: covering a lot of this and he's been fighting a

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Speaker 1: lot of it in court. But what this piece talks

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Speaker 1: about This is in the New York Times. Republicans are

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Speaker 1: filing like a barrage of different election lawsuits. They're doing

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Speaker 1: it in the hopes of working the refs. It's already

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Speaker 1: worked in Georgia, where they now have hand counted ballots.

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Speaker 1: The idea here is to inject fuckery, make a longer

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Speaker 1: timetable so that they can so that they can do

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Speaker 1: election challenges lawsuits. Look, the ultimate goal of all of

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Speaker 1: these Republicans is to kick this stuff up to the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court, because Donald Trump feels that with a six

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Speaker 1: to three majority, three of whom he has put in

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Speaker 1: the job himself, that he can win. If he can

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Speaker 1: just get it up to the courts, I think you'll

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Speaker 1: see more of this, a lot of it will lose.

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Speaker 1: But again, this is the structural integrity of our elections.

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Speaker 1: So it's really scary, and the Republican goal is just

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Speaker 1: to get them to throw out as many ballots as possible.

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Speaker 2: Keep an eye on this, so Maya.

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Speaker 3: Since we're the same age, I imagine your childhood was

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Speaker 3: least with watching episodes of Roseanne like mine was.

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Speaker 1: I'm nodding my head furiously because for us, Roseanne was,

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Speaker 1: you know, a sort of Hero of the Working Man.

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Speaker 1: Her sitcom was really fun to watch, and now she

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Speaker 1: has become a complete lunatic, so much so that I

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Speaker 1: will now do a dramatic reading.

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Speaker 2: But in all of her glory, can I play Tucker? Yes?

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Speaker 1: But basically the point of this story, which it's been debunked, right,

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Speaker 1: nobody's eating cats and dogs?

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Speaker 4: What about babies?

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Speaker 2: Well, and that is and I.

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Speaker 1: Think you have to be a special kind of crazy

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Speaker 1: to go further. Instead of saying, well, it may or

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Speaker 1: may not be true, as Jade Vance tried to spin it,

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Speaker 1: it is just not true. Roseanne decided to address the

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Speaker 1: migrant situation in the Haitian immigrant situation in Ohio. We

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Speaker 1: know it's not true. This is all a lie. So

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Speaker 1: she starts with, you know they eat the babies. That

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Speaker 1: is not bullshit. It's true, by the way, again, completely untrue.

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Speaker 3: While this is happening, since I'm Tucker, he was giggling

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Speaker 3: and smiling like a pig and shit.

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Speaker 1: And then she continues, it's not just the dogs and

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Speaker 1: the cats, bar says, and she's not joking. They're full

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Speaker 1: on vampires. And everyone still thinks I'm crazy. There's a

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Speaker 1: reason why people think you're crazy, Roseanne. It's because you're crazy,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not crazy. They're full on vampires. They love

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Speaker 1: the taste of human flesh, they drink human blood. They

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Speaker 1: do so again they do not. Nobody is drinking human blood.

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Speaker 1: Nobody is a vampire. None of this is true.

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Speaker 2: This is just.

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Speaker 1: Right wing fever dream bs and it's a complete lie.

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Speaker 1: And that's where we are, and that's where Carlson has fallen.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I have to say, I think we were all a

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Speaker 3: little gleeful when he lost his Fox News gig. But

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Speaker 3: where he's going now, he has a huge platform and

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Speaker 3: he's doing shit like this.

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Speaker 4: It's really really bad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like with so many things. Yes, Tucker Carlson is

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Speaker 1: not on Fox News anymore. So he's the second highest

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Speaker 1: rate podcast on Spotify. He has a huge number of listeners,

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Speaker 1: and he has continued to inject this far right nonsense

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Speaker 1: into the mainstream. So we're all touched by it and

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Speaker 1: it's affecting people, and it's really negative.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of negatively affecting people.

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Speaker 3: So what I saw you put this on the document

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Speaker 3: that we did this segment the life fill Out of

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Speaker 3: My Body that CBS News says it will be up

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Speaker 3: to vance and walls to fact checked each other at

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Speaker 3: the debate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is so interesting because it's such a stupid idea.

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Speaker 2: It's so bad.

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Speaker 1: ABC did such a good job fact checking the debate

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Speaker 1: in a very tasteful and non disruptive way. They did

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Speaker 1: a few fact checks, were able to just sort of

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Speaker 1: thread the needle. It was not so hard, and it

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Speaker 1: made a big difference. It made such a big difference

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Speaker 1: that Maga world was furious.

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Speaker 2: But here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: If you are not on the side of facts, you

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Speaker 1: will be furious by a fact check. The answer is

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Speaker 1: not to not fact check. The answer is to not lie. Right,

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Speaker 1: there are right. You know they're eating the pets. They're

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Speaker 1: not eating the pets, right, that's a lie. So if

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Speaker 1: you don't lie, you don't have to fact check they're

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Speaker 1: eating the pets. And that is why this is a

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Speaker 1: terrible move on the part of CBS, and I think

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Speaker 1: that it is really unfair and I think it's really stupid.

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Speaker 1: It shows us how well working the refs work. If

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Speaker 1: your maga and you say fact checking is against you

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Speaker 1: as opposed to fact checking is that facts are against you,

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Speaker 1: and you do that, then in fact it works so

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Speaker 1: We're seeing Maga work the refs work the refs with CBS,

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Speaker 1: and I'm really disappointed.

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Speaker 3: Smile over in the Virginia's seventh congressional district, which, for

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Speaker 3: people who don't know, that's the southwest below DC area,

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Speaker 3: an area that is very, very contentious that this is

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Speaker 3: only a D plus one district. There's some serious fuckery

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Speaker 3: going on. Can you tell us what you're seeing here?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So this is a race against one of the

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Speaker 1: vinmin twins. This is an open seat vacated by Abigail Spamberger.

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Speaker 1: Abigail Spamberger is planning to run for governor. This a

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Speaker 1: very competitive purple seat. So the anti choice Republican Derek Anderson,

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Speaker 1: who's running in Virginia's seventh congressional district. He wants to

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Speaker 1: appeal to women. A lot of these Republicans have started

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Speaker 1: trying to appeal to women using their wives. Derek doesn't

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Speaker 1: have a wife, so he borrowed another family for a

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Speaker 1: weird family photoshoot. He's sort of making it look as

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Speaker 1: if he has a family that he does not.

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Speaker 2: I'm not surprised.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure that borrowing someone else his family will

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Speaker 1: help him win the way he thinks it might.

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Speaker 4: I just want to know why they can't stop being weird.

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Speaker 1: I just want to know why they can't just pose

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Speaker 1: with their own families. He's also engaged. Our last sort

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Speaker 1: of newsy bit today features your friend and mine George Conway.

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Speaker 4: Oh please tell me I forgot about this.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of these Audience of One ads George Conway.

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Speaker 3: And we'll have more about those with Rick Wilson in

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Speaker 3: just a few minutes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but George Conway is involved in Audience of one

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Speaker 1: ads and he made a big ad about a sexual

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Speaker 1: assault survivor, one of Trump's many victims. You'll remember this

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Speaker 1: news cycle from twenty sixteen, which seems to have been abandoned.

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Speaker 1: So he did this news cycle, and he did these ads,

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Speaker 1: and they are really kind of brilliant. But more importantly,

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Speaker 1: they are getting in Donald Trump's head. Carolyn Levitt, Trump

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Speaker 1: National campaign press secretary, said, George Conway has no idea

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Speaker 1: what he's talking about and suffers from a serious case

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Speaker 1: of Trump to arrangement syndrome that has rotted his brain.

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Speaker 1: So congratulations, George. You can't stop winning.

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Speaker 3: You're always winning. When they say you have Trump arrangement syndrome,

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Speaker 3: we have even more tour dates for you. Did you

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Speaker 3: know the Lincoln Projects Rick Wilson have Fast Politics, MALEI

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Speaker 3: jug Faster are heading out on tour to bring you

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Speaker 3: a night of laughs for our dark political landscape. Join

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Speaker 3: us on August twenty sixth at San Francisco at the

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Speaker 3: Swedish American Hall, or in la on August twenty seventh

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Speaker 3: at the Region Theater. Then we're headed to the Midwest.

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Speaker 3: We'll be at the Vivarium in Milwaukee on the twenty

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Speaker 3: first of September, and on the twenty second we'll be

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Speaker 3: in Chicago at City Winery. Then we're going to hit

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Speaker 3: the East coast. On September thirtieth, We'll be in Boston

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Speaker 3: at Arts at the Armory. On the first of October,

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Speaker 3: we'll be Infiliates City Winery, and then DC on the

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Speaker 3: second at the Miracle Theater. And today we just announced

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Speaker 3: that we'll be in New York on the fourteenth of

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Speaker 3: October at City One. If you need to laugh as

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Speaker 3: we get through this selection and hopefully never hear from

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Speaker 3: a guy who lives in a golf club again, we

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Speaker 3: got you covered. Join us in our surprise guests to

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Speaker 3: help you laugh instead of cry. Your way through the

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Speaker 3: selection season and give you the inside analysis of what's.

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Speaker 4: Really going on right now.

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Speaker 3: Buy your tickets now by heading to Politics as Unusual

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Speaker 3: dot bio.

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Speaker 4: That's Politics as Unusual dot bio.

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Speaker 1: Rick Wilson is the founder of the Lincoln Project and

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Speaker 1: host of the Enemy's List.

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Speaker 4: Rick Wilson, Mully, Jong, Fast, How are you today?

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Speaker 1: I am just delighted to have you here pre tour.

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Speaker 1: Rick Wilson on his way to Boston. Recently survived a

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Speaker 1: Cat three hurricane.

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Speaker 4: Very exciting times.

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Speaker 2: Climate change is real.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, I've been told over and over again

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Speaker 4: that you can't use those words anymore because Governor DeSantis

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Speaker 4: has banned them from a recent state government or in education.

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Speaker 4: So they don't know, they don't If you don't say

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Speaker 4: the words, they don't exist, like gay and climate.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: I actually, because I am such a lunatic, I listened

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Speaker 1: to c SPAN all the time, and so I was

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Speaker 1: listening to DeSantis' presser.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you guys have in Florida.

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Speaker 1: We're just going to take a second to talk about

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Speaker 1: one of the kind of interesting, horrible side things from

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Speaker 1: climate change is that you guys have crazy high insurance

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Speaker 1: premiums in your state.

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Speaker 4: And you know, luckily for the state of Florida, there's

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Speaker 4: another hurricane on the way. And for the last three years,

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Speaker 4: all Ron DeSantis has wanted to do in the legislature

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Speaker 4: is culture war bullshit, don't say gay book burnings, taking

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Speaker 4: over colleges, all these things he thought were going to

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Speaker 4: get him to the White House, which didn't. But they

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Speaker 4: did leave the state of Florida with the most expensive

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Speaker 4: property insurance in the world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it turns out that woke does not stop hurricanes.

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Speaker 4: The War on woke has somehow, call me crazy, I

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Speaker 4: don't know what this is. It somehow doesn't have any

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Speaker 4: impact on actual people in the state of Florida. And look,

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Speaker 4: if they're happy that the War on Woke has been

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Speaker 4: such a wonderful center of everything about Ronda Santis's political career,

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Speaker 4: God bless them, good luck or knock yourselves out. And look,

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Speaker 4: I want to expand this a little bit too, Molly,

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Speaker 4: because the bible of the War on Woke in the

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Speaker 4: Future Project twenty twenty five has called for the elimination

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Speaker 4: of things like the National Hurricane Center. Yeah, the National

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Speaker 4: Oceanic Administration NOAH, which produces all the weather products in

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Speaker 4: the country.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and of course they.

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Speaker 4: Want to downsize FEMA and put it in control of

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Speaker 4: the president so he can decide if people do nice

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Speaker 4: to me, they will get help. If not, it will.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It is basically the plan to make the federal government

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Speaker 1: an arm of the Trump campaign, which means does Trump

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Speaker 1: need the Fed to cut interest rates right before an election?

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Speaker 2: Maybe he does, and so he tells them to.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it is a complete shittery on the highest level.

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Speaker 4: At some point, we'll get the fuckery today. And that's

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Speaker 4: really where my fucker he's at right now, because it

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Speaker 4: really is something. This is a deliberate attack on people

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Speaker 4: in a way that honestly is beyond the pale.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of beyond the pail, last night, Donald Trump was

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Speaker 1: in Wisconsin Swings Day, Wisconsin. Yeah, he did the weave.

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Speaker 1: That's what he calls it. When he goes from subject

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Speaker 1: to subject.

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Speaker 4: We call that. We call that late stage dementia.

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Speaker 1: And he does the weave, and he wove a lot

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Speaker 1: of real fucked up stuff, including.

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Speaker 4: We'll start light. Here's him talking about a fly.

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Speaker 6: Can't take it any longer. Remember there's a hat that's made.

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Speaker 4: It sounds like crazy. Oh, there's a fly.

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Speaker 6: Oh, I wonder where the fly came from. See two

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Speaker 6: years ago, I wouldn't have had a fly up here.

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Speaker 6: You're changing rapidly, but we can't take it any longer.

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Speaker 6: We can't take it any longer.

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Speaker 4: It takes it.

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Speaker 1: So that was the fly ref, the famous fly ref.

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Speaker 1: And I guess he means that there wouldn't have been

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Speaker 1: a fly because of climate change.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Look, actually what he's saying is that somehow the

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Speaker 4: deep State has released their insect army against him.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it's the mass It makes mathing.

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Speaker 4: It's obviously the deep state. But look, anyone who disputes

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Speaker 4: the absolute evidence before their eyes that Trump is increasingly

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Speaker 4: deranged on the stump is you know, either an immediate

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Speaker 4: Trump family member or Jason Miller. And I'm sorry, none

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Speaker 4: of this, none of this makes any damn sense. But

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Speaker 4: you know what, I think there's a series of things

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Speaker 4: that he's going to have in the coming days that

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Speaker 4: really make him continue to look completely fucking ridiculous. And

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Speaker 4: he's completely fucking ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: What I'm struck by when Mark Cuban, who's been become

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Speaker 1: a very good Harris surrogate, talks about how Trump's people

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Speaker 1: have to explain what he meant more and more.

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Speaker 4: Right, the conceptual weirdness of Trump. It keeps going down

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Speaker 4: this rabbit hole where normal people can't understand it. The

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Speaker 4: magas believe it is some sort of secret, cryptic, magical

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Speaker 4: code between themselves and Trump, and they're always like, you know,

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Speaker 4: he could be saying like herbal berbal dood and they're like, well,

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Speaker 4: thats well, that means, that means and it's it's bullshit

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Speaker 4: and it's crazy town. But nothing about his presence on

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Speaker 4: the stage anymore is rational. It all comes across as kooky.

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Speaker 4: It all comes across as weird, It all comes across

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Speaker 4: as unhinged and dangerous because it is right, Well, why

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Speaker 4: don't we hear a little bit more of that?

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Speaker 6: Joe Biden became mentally impaired.

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Speaker 4: Kamala was born that way.

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Speaker 6: She was born, and if you think about it, only

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Speaker 6: a mentally disabled person could have allowed this to happen

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Speaker 6: to our country.

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Speaker 4: Anybody would know this.

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Speaker 1: First of all, Harris has been a sex crimes prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: an attorney's general for a state that's large enough to

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Speaker 1: be the fifth largest.

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Speaker 2: Economy in the world.

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Speaker 1: She has been a senator, She has been the first

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Speaker 1: female vice president. She's actually quite smart. And literally, it's

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Speaker 1: just a racist being racist. And then also it's horrible

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Speaker 1: to people who are disabled, Molly.

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Speaker 4: It's also just stonking gigantic projection.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she got into his head.

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Speaker 4: She got into his brain at that debate. She did

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Speaker 4: more damage to Trump than the assassination attempted. Mentally, that

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Speaker 4: should be something that you're absolutely like, your life crumbles

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Speaker 4: around you, all that stuff, but it really didn't. He

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Speaker 4: was golfing the next day, and in this case, she

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Speaker 4: took him on that stage and tore his brain out

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Speaker 4: and whipped it with a blender, and he can't stop

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Speaker 4: thinking about it, talking about it, overreacting to it. And honestly,

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Speaker 4: now we're entering the stage where the low propensity voters okay,

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Speaker 4: have started to pay attention, and those low propensity voters

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Speaker 4: are like, the fuck is this wait? I thought Trump

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Speaker 4: was smart and funny and commanding on stage, and now

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Speaker 4: you've got a sick, sad old man. And look, just

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Speaker 4: as she didn't respond to his bullshit about I think

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Speaker 4: she was black, and then maybe she wasn't black, and

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Speaker 4: then maybe she's back decided to be black. Just like that,

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Speaker 4: she shouldn't respond to this at all. It should be like, okay,

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Speaker 4: crazy man, thanks, thanks for your input, Grandpa Ranty. But

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Speaker 4: other than that, they should let it roll, and they

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Speaker 4: should let roll all of the things, because you're starting

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Speaker 4: to see out in the States they are really throwing

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Speaker 4: a lot of crap at the wall now trying to

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Speaker 4: figure something that sticks. So in Michigan and Wisconsin right now,

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Speaker 4: their ad is like Gomla Harris wants your text dollars

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Speaker 4: paid for trans prisoners, You're going to get free sex change.

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Speaker 4: I'm yeah, I know. Whatever fucking focus group y'all vomited

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Speaker 4: that out of was a bunch of guys with a

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Speaker 4: zen pouch in when they're in their jawline and a

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Speaker 4: red hat and an indifferent history of education and an

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Speaker 4: eager history of inbreeding in their families. But this thing

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Speaker 4: is like all of its projection on Trump's part, all

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Speaker 4: of its desperation on Trump's part, and that is not

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Speaker 4: going to change as we get closer, and it doesn't

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Speaker 4: help them as they get closer.

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Speaker 1: Right, No, I think that's a really good point. I

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Speaker 1: would also add that as we're seeing Trump World just

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Speaker 1: evolve into racism and craziness and I'm going to cut

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Speaker 1: all your taxes. No taxes on tips, no taxes on anything,

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Speaker 1: no use.

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Speaker 4: You know what, listen what ever, it is such a

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Speaker 4: narrow casting thing, and I'll tell you what it is.

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Speaker 4: I pick this up. Apparently some donor of his told him,

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Speaker 4: you'll win in Nevada if you just say no tax

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Speaker 4: on tips. The problem for Trump is he's so insane

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Speaker 4: that there's a certain amount of noise that just that

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Speaker 4: people are like, okay, cuckoo man, that's enough, right, because

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Speaker 4: he could promise, like the other day when he says

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Speaker 4: maybe I'll take at a sip of paper and say

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Speaker 4: when Simon trying in debt for bitcoin and there'll be

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Speaker 4: no debt, and everyone watching that with two neurons to

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Speaker 4: rub together, it's like, the fuck is this?

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about this for a minute, because

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Speaker 1: it does feel like a victory for you. You were

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Speaker 1: one of the first people to ever do Audience of.

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Speaker 4: One, and I was the first person.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it's right, the first person to start Audience

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Speaker 2: of one.

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Speaker 1: And the idea here was that if you made Trump,

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Speaker 1: if you just got in his head, he would start

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Speaker 1: making insane decisions.

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Speaker 4: Correct.

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Speaker 1: Talk to me about how it feels to have George

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Speaker 1: con we do it, to have all sorts of other

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Speaker 1: people do it, and also to have the HAIRRISCA.

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Speaker 4: That is what delights me the most is that the

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Speaker 4: Harris campaign has figured out that the model that we

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Speaker 4: proposed and executed starting in twenty nineteen is a thing

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Speaker 4: that gives you an advantage over Trump and that he

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Speaker 4: cannot shake. It makes him vulnerable because when you see

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Speaker 4: Trump acting as Trump really is, it's a lot harder

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Speaker 4: for those normy Republicans to say, Oh, it's either Trump

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Speaker 4: or communism, and so.

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Speaker 2: They can't say it.

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Speaker 7: Now.

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Speaker 4: It's like, well, she seems pretty normal and he's pretty crazy,

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Speaker 4: and the more crazy he is, the better for America.

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Speaker 1: So Jeff Flake endors this morning. Jeff Flake Arizona, Republican

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Speaker 1: Senator Arizona is super important Swings Day. Does this mean

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Speaker 1: you know? Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush are not far behind.

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Speaker 4: Jeb will never endorse her. I can just tell you

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Speaker 4: that right now from what everything I'm hearing, Jeb is

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Speaker 4: a is a hard no to endorsing her. So that

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Speaker 4: let's let's drop that one w has said no. But

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Speaker 4: I hear a whole bunch of conflicting answers out of

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Speaker 4: that world. I think Mitt Romney is strongly considering it.

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Speaker 4: And at this point, as I wrote the other day

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Speaker 4: to my Republican friends, like those of you who think

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Speaker 4: you're sticking around in the Republican Party to influence what

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Speaker 4: it becomes after Trump, you are operating from a really,

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Speaker 4: really flawed assumption. For people that make up the GOP,

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Speaker 4: now they loathe every one of us from the before times.

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Speaker 4: We will never get to a point where the party

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Speaker 4: goes back to being based on ideological principles. It's now

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Speaker 4: all crazy, all the time, all of this nationalism, hyper populism,

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Speaker 4: all this garbage that they believe is the most important thing,

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Speaker 4: the Rond de Santis model. And so it's important to

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Speaker 4: understand we're not going to get to go back in

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Speaker 4: time and fix the GOP. If you want a conservative

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Speaker 4: party in the future, right now, the play is to

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Speaker 4: break from the Republican Party. So then in the future

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Speaker 4: you can say, listen, I put country over party at

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Speaker 4: the most important moment in time, I came out and

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Speaker 4: I threw everything, everything to the wind, and I said

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Speaker 4: I'm going to vote for Kamala Harris, even though I

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Speaker 4: disagreed with her on a lot of fundamental questions. I

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Speaker 4: didn't believe that she was going to destroy the country,

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Speaker 4: and that's what Trump would have done. And to have

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Speaker 4: credibility to rebuild a center right party, you have to

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Speaker 4: repudiate Trump before he is out politically. You have to

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Speaker 4: do it now.

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Speaker 1: Not Yeah, no, I agree. It's not clear to me

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Speaker 1: that the Republican Party doesn't. You know, eventually there'll be

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Speaker 1: someone there to rebuild it, and someone like if you've

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Speaker 1: been trumpy or if you've been going along with it,

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Speaker 1: you're not necessarily going to be that person.

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Speaker 4: Listen. Jd Vance is already already whispering to people like, well,

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Speaker 4: you know, well, if we were just running on this

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Speaker 4: ticket without Trump, it would be an amazing populist movement

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Speaker 4: and we'd be winning by a billion points. I disagree,

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Speaker 4: But what it tells you is their ambition is to

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Speaker 4: go forward from here using the Trump model, using the

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Speaker 4: Project twenty twenty five model.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 1: It's a fascinating gambit, especially because we all know that

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Speaker 1: trump Ism without Trump has largely just absolutely destroyed itself.

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Speaker 4: Trump Ism without Trump does not scale. Trump Ism without

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Speaker 4: Trump is Mark Robinson.

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Speaker 1: By the way, Trump still has withdrawn his Mark Robinson endorsement.

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Speaker 4: By the way, did you catch that jd Vance when

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Speaker 4: he was asking about Mark Robinson this weekend? That looked

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Speaker 4: like he had shoved a live otter up his ass

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Speaker 4: and it was squirming to get out. My god, how can.

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Speaker 2: You not be prepared for this? I mean, the guy

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Speaker 2: right like you, what you're gonna say when people ask

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Speaker 2: you about Mark Robinson?

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Speaker 4: And all jd Vance had to say was I stand

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Speaker 4: with the President. I started with Donald Trump. That's all

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Speaker 4: he had to say. And you know what, people would

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Speaker 4: have gone blah blah blah, but instead he's up there

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Speaker 4: flipping and squirming and it's just like, oh, I mean,

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Speaker 4: I just I'm going to say this. For the tenth

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Speaker 4: time I have been in politics my entire life, I

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Speaker 4: have never seen a candidate as bad at this work

438
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 4: as jd Vance.

439
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's wonderful.

440
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 4: He makes Sarah Palin look like golden my ear. He's

441
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 4: a astounding He's an astounding claude in every way.

442
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 1: He makes Sarah pale and look like gold in my air.

443
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 1: I mean, that might be a bumper sticker right there,

444
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 1: a T shirt something to put on a golden necklace,

445
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 1: a trimp stamp, right, a tramp stamp.

446
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 2: Were allowed to say that. I don't think we're left.

447
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 4: We are we are You can say trip st a

448
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:19,719
Speaker 4: tramp stamp.

449
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't think it was very feminist, but okay,

450
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 1: but yes, yeah.

451
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 4: But I have a tattoo of f A Hayek on

452
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 4: my back.

453
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 1: But I do think it's a really good point, which

454
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,360
Speaker 1: is there is no and again, like when Trump ran

455
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, there was Trump and there was a

456
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,679
Speaker 1: Republican Party. Now it's almost a decade later, we've all

457
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 1: aged quite significantly.

458
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 4: I've aged thirty five years in that decade. But yeah,

459
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 4: I have.

460
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: Bags under my eyes. I literally never had bags under

461
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: my eyes. I you know, I go get TV makeup

462
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 1: and they can't. It takes them like a half an

463
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: hour just to address the bags. So we've all gotten

464
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 1: much much older. But the Republican Party is basically now

465
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: Trump is if you have fialty to Trump, you are

466
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: allowed to stay, and if.

467
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 2: You don't, you're out.

468
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 4: Yep, that is correct.

469
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: So you've got Mark Robinson, You've got you know, Jady Vans.

470
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't have like there are no young

471
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 1: stars in the party.

472
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 4: Oh god, no, I mean. And the people that think

473
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 4: they are rising stars are all very contingent on Trump.

474
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,719
Speaker 4: Sarah Huckabee thinks she is a rising star in the party.

475
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 4: Christinoam still even after dog murder, thinks she's a rising

476
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 4: star in the party. And the people that also think

477
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 4: they have an option, like Nicki Haley. Nicki Haley thinks

478
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 4: she's a rising star and that she's going to be

479
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 4: the next nominee and she's wrong. Yeah, I'll explain this

480
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 4: to Republicans since twenty sixteen. Once you cross him, even

481
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 4: if you go and kiss his ass later, at some point,

482
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 4: he will fuck you in the future just to humiliate you.

483
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 4: Watch what happens the day after election Day with Vance. Yeah,

484
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 4: they will say I thought JD would be better on TV,

485
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 4: but he sucked. Turned out he was still a rhinoshel

486
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 4: They won't ever escape. And Nicki Haley, because she said

487
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 4: mean things about Trump, her opponents from them in any

488
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 4: Republican primary in the future are going to run ads

489
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 4: saying remember when Nikki Haley attacked our president. Yeah, remember

490
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 4: what she said that he was incompetent, insane, That's why

491
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 4: Harris won. And now we live in Marxist socialism, the

492
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 4: ads right themselves for.

493
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: These Yeahsi, there's a really, really, really good point. Are

494
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 1: you concerned about Project twenty twenty five and how awful

495
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: Trump's second term could be? Well, so are we, which

496
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 1: is why we teamed up with iHeart to make a

497
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: limited series with the experts on what a disaster Project

498
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five would be for America's future. Right now,

499
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 1: we have just released the final episode of this five

500
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: episode series. They're all available by looking up Molly John

501
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 1: Fast Project twenty twenty five on YouTube, and if you

502
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: are more of a podcast person and not say a YouTuber,

503
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: you can hit play and put your phone in the

504
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: lock screen and it will play back just like a podcast.

505
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 1: All five episodes are online now. We need to educate

506
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: Americans on what Trump's second term would or could do

507
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: to this country, so please watch it and spread the word.

508
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: Doug rush Gooff is the author of many many books,

509
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: including The Update of program or B Programmed eleven Commands

510
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 1: for the AI Future, Welcome back to Fast Politics.

511
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 5: Thank you, it's a whole new Fast Politics. Congratulations on

512
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 5: fourth day. I was just thinking you could record those

513
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 5: like during your like two hour nap between Stephanie Rule

514
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 5: and Morning Joe.

515
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 4: From the Room.

516
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: I did fall asleep yesterday on the sofa which I

517
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: was with a teenager and they were talking to me,

518
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 1: and then I was like, you know, I could just

519
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: close my eyes and no one will notice.

520
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 2: So Doug, tell me about this book.

521
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 5: All right, I just want to talk about you. That's

522
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 5: what I'm terrible.

523
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: I'm great.

524
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,959
Speaker 5: You know this book. I was thinking about how you're

525
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 5: reading the news now, right, and it made.

526
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 4: Me think of this book.

527
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 5: Actually, because the value add of you reading the news

528
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 5: like a Mike Schmidt article or something is not that

529
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 5: we can't get that information, that data ourselves. It's that

530
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 5: we listen to how agitated you are by Mike Schmidt

531
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 5: might have written in order to gauge how concerned we

532
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 5: should be.

533
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 4: Right, So we are getting the.

534
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 5: News of the day as metabolized by Molly john fast

535
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 5: nervous system. Right, that's the human value of media. And

536
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 5: what I was always concerned about was this shift that

537
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 5: we're valuing you know, the data over the human or

538
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 5: doubt that the content over the context, you know, And

539
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 5: that was really what set me on this whole journey.

540
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 5: So yeah, so I wrote this book This was fifteen

541
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 5: years ago called Programmer b Programmed. It was ten Commands

542
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 5: for the digital age, and I was kind of trying

543
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 5: to update the ten Commandments as these passive things for

544
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 5: the age of text to tend commands for this more active,

545
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 5: interactive age. And I was arguing, if you don't know

546
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 5: how these things work, they're gonna be working you right,

547
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 5: You're going to be the tool rather than the tool user.

548
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 5: Fifteen years ago, though, the way the book got interpreted

549
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 5: was like learn to code right.

550
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 7: Nobody got the liberal arts critical thinking metaphor, and I

551
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 7: became like this hero of like the digital you know,

552
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 7: boot camp online, care to stem education, get rid of

553
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 7: those liberal arts.

554
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 5: It was like, oh my god. When it was actually

555
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 5: a call for you know, liberal arts and maybe a

556
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 5: little bit of Marx right.

557
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 2: Berl Arts and a little bit of marks, that's good.

558
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, automation was reducing our agency, you know that with

559
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,719
Speaker 5: the human beings are being understood in terms of utility value,

560
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 5: like programming humans, like auto tuning our music, right, auto tuning.

561
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 5: I mean you could auto tune Ariana Grande, but don't

562
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 5: auto tune James Brown right, him reaching up for the note.

563
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 5: That's literally the soul, that's what we're listening for, and

564
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 5: that we were moving into a world where we saw

565
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 5: that reaching up for the note as the noise and

566
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 5: the noted sofa is the signal. And I was trying

567
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 5: to argue the opposite, that we can program this reality.

568
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 5: But that was back in the age of early early Facebook.

569
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 5: Right this is before Facebook even turned pure evil. It's

570
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 5: when he was innocently doing evil rather than consciously doing evil.

571
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 5: But AI, like back then, compared to artificial intelligence, like

572
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 5: social media, was kind of like the missionaries, you know,

573
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 5: that came to Americas and softened up the population, got

574
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 5: a lot of intelligence on them, and then reported back

575
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 5: to the crown that AI is like the conquistadors, right

576
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 5: use for that information to actually come and squish us.

577
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 5: So it's like, finally, now with AI, people are ready

578
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 5: to understand what I was trying to say then, that

579
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 5: you can either be a programming human who's programming the

580
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 5: world that you live in, or you can accept these

581
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 5: programs at face value and basically be enslaved by them.

582
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 5: And we're at a really critical juncture that way right now.

583
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, what you're talking about here is aggregation

584
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: right to.

585
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 5: A large extent. Yeah, I mean, it's really being able

586
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 5: to see that the digital platform or environment that you're

587
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 5: in has been programmed with really specific biases. These are

588
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 5: not neutral territories. These are places that tilt in certain ways,

589
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 5: like those of us on the on the so called left,

590
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 5: although I don't even know if we'd be considered left

591
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 5: compared to the original real left. We're like and yeah,

592
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 5: you sit on a place like Twitter and it's hard

593
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 5: to know. I mean, I just went. I had hadn't

594
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 5: been on Twitter really since like the second week of

595
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 5: Musky and Twitter, and I went back because a friend

596
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 5: of mine's group, one of the Kamala for you know

597
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 5: the people I forgot which one it was, you know,

598
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 5: deadheads for Kamala or dude one of those groups had

599
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 5: gotten like kicked off, and I wanted to.

600
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 2: See, Oh it was Dude's Yeah it was Dude.

601
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 5: Was it Shadow or this or that? And I went

602
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 5: and I hadn't seen it in the year. I'm like,

603
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 5: oh my god, this is like, this is what jacque

604
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 5: Alul meant by a propagandistic universe, the landscape itself. I

605
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 5: don't subscribe to Musk as one of my Twitter people

606
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 5: yet he's got every other post is from him, right,

607
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 5: that he's controlling this world where even if you're in

608
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 5: a little progressive conversation somewhere, the ads that come in

609
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 5: are the worst, most awful, violent, right wing insanity or

610
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 5: bot stuff. So it's as if the are you're breathing

611
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 5: in this environment is controlled by the feudalist dude who's

612
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 5: running the thing, the content, the context, the whole space

613
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 5: is tilted, and then that other things are actually banned.

614
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 5: And this is supposedly this freezepeech open platform. It's like

615
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 5: if you don't understand how programmed it is, and you

616
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 5: just you spend time in there, your understanding of what's

617
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 5: happening in the world, you know, really really changes.

618
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that's right.

619
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: Why is there no transparency when it comes to the algorithm?

620
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: And actually we were just talking about this with another

621
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: interview that maybe Elon is so all over the place

622
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: because there's because that site has degraded so much. I

623
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: wonder if it's sort of a less focused than say

624
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: a TikTok, which has this sort of incredibly sensitive algorithm.

625
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 4: Right.

626
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I think part of the problem with

627
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 5: x there's incompetence and mental illness kind of combining. So

628
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 5: it's intentional, but it's not as articulated as a place

629
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 5: like TikTok, where there's you know, tremendous competence in programming

630
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 5: that environment. And I keep thinking that the underlying problem,

631
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 5: and I hate blaming everything on capitalism, but the underlying

632
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 5: problem in some ways is the una acknowledged operating system

633
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 5: underneath everything. The reason I wrote programmer every program was

634
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 5: partly for us to be able to deal with this

635
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 5: universe and to have these sort of simple commands, you know,

636
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 5: to understand you you don't have to choose one of

637
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 5: the above, that you can acknowledge your complexity, that not

638
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 5: everything happens at scale, you know, these sort of ten

639
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 5: simple ideas. But for the developers and programmers, I wanted

640
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 5: them to understand that there's an unacknowledged operating system underneath

641
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 5: all of these platforms, and that is extractive growth based

642
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 5: exponential capitalism. That yes, every program you write, sure it

643
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 5: should have a good interface and serve people and do this,

644
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 5: but it should be capable of growing exponentially forever, right,

645
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 5: And that's only a certain kind of program is going

646
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 5: to do that. Right, grow exponentially forever means oh, it

647
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 5: must function like cancer. It must eventually destroy its host.

648
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 5: So Twitters it has to destroy. If it wants to

649
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 5: be the virtual version of the public square, it has

650
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 5: to extract all value from the public square and leave

651
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,919
Speaker 5: a carcass behind it. I mean that was what ended

652
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 5: up being their philosophy's in Survival of the Richest, my

653
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 5: more recent book, it was that, Oh, they're realizing this,

654
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 5: which is why they're going to lift off from the planet,

655
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,720
Speaker 5: which is why they see humanity as the maggot larval

656
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 5: stage of evolution and themselves as the flies you know,

657
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 5: that get off this big dung keep that is planet Earth.

658
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 5: But it's all because they can't see the programs that

659
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 5: they're working with, and that's because they lack this critical thinking,

660
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 5: this sort of basic liberal arts.

661
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: Interesting, you were sort of right about these tech billionaires.

662
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 5: Turns out, I mean, yeah.

663
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 2: Does that bring you any joy?

664
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 5: Or now it brings me joy in that Honestly. By

665
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 5: nineteen ninety three, after my year of raving with the

666
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 5: kids making fractal, I said, I saw Wired Magazine's first

667
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 5: issue and I said, uh, oh, someone else is trying

668
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 5: to kind of recontextualize this people's renaissance into a business revolution,

669
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 5: and the window of opportunity for us to really seize

670
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 5: what this is about is going to close, and we're

671
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 5: all going to get programmed into oblivion and worse, I

672
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 5: guess you know. And that's why I'm happy this book

673
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 5: came out again.

674
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 2: Now this is a reissue, right.

675
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, fifteenth anniversary reissue, a program or reprogrammed with a

676
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 5: whole new command and eleventh command about artificial intelligence, arguing

677
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 5: that we value the human. But then this afterward that

678
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 5: I wrote at the last minute, where I realized that

679
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 5: that we on the progressive left have ended up absorbing

680
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 5: some of this same digital ethos about engineering human beings.

681
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 5: I'm at Climate Week at all these things, and every

682
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 5: single talk and panel I keep hearing people say, how

683
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 5: do we get people to finally do this? How are

684
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 5: we going to get people to do that? And it's like,

685
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 5: once you're saying how do we get people too, you're

686
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 5: in the programmer's mindset. You're not treating them as humans.

687
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 5: So I'm arguing, is instead of trying to implement something

688
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 5: by by instrumentalizing human beings to your cause, instead try

689
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 5: to engender the behaviors you want, try to develop a

690
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 5: landscape that engenders these kind of pro human qualities. What

691
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 5: I started to do is look at well, why do

692
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 5: you do that? And then I came up with these

693
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 5: four interventions that really makes sense, almost as a kind

694
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 5: of a liberal arts approach to politics, where first one

695
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 5: is just denaturalized power right, help people see the difference

696
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 5: between the given circumstances of reality and the social constructions

697
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 5: that have been imposed on us. Like I was doing

698
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 5: Jake Tapper the other night. I mean, bless him, he's

699
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 5: a good guy and all, but I get in this

700
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 5: mood and he was trying to get me to say

701
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 5: bad things about AI and I was just feeling AI stupid.

702
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 5: I don't really care about it today. And then finally

703
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 5: he said, well, what about the unemployment problem? And I

704
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 5: said back, I said, well what about the unemployment solution?

705
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 5: He's like huh, And I'm like, well, I don't really

706
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 5: want a job. Does anyone want a job?

707
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 4: I don't want a job.

708
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 5: I want stuff, I want money, I want meaning, but

709
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 5: I could live without a job. Where did jobs come from?

710
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 5: And then you go back to late medievalism and you

711
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 5: find out, oh, jobs came along with the charter monopoly

712
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 5: where doing business for yourself was illegal. Now you had

713
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 5: to go work by the hour. It's when they put

714
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 5: the clock on the tower, right, that's denaturalizing power. It's

715
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 5: what media theorists love to do to say, since when,

716
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 5: since when was it like this?

717
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 4: You know?

718
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 5: And then that leads to the second one, which is

719
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,919
Speaker 5: like to trigger people's agency, And that's you know, how

720
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 5: do you help people see that they once it is

721
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 5: a social construction. Once this money? Where did money come from?

722
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 5: Who's programming my money? Could I have a different kind

723
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 5: of money? Could we make local currency? That's triggering agency?

724
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 5: And once you do that, it leads to well, if

725
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 5: I have my agency, I don't want to do this alone.

726
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 5: If I'm going to make new money, I'm going to

727
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 5: need other people. So we resocialize the people. I kind

728
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 5: of call it like put the social back into socialism.

729
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 5: I don't like the ism of it, but the social

730
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,439
Speaker 5: You got to put up a picture of your kid

731
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 5: graduating from school. You've got to get a drill. You're

732
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 5: going to go to the home depot and buy a

733
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,479
Speaker 5: minimum viable product drill or are you going to borrow a drill?

734
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 5: From your neighbor.

735
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: Let's come back for a minute.

736
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: We're in this weird moment in American life where I

737
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: don't know what AI can do. I have some sense

738
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,359
Speaker 1: that my Google searches look a little better now, but

739
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: I have no sense of really what AI can do.

740
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: It feels like we're on the precipice of something that

741
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: could be quite bad or could be quite good. So

742
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: explain to us sort of where we are at this

743
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: moment with the AI, and if you want to tell

744
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 1: us what it's going to do, that's fine too.

745
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,439
Speaker 5: The jury's out on AI, just like the jury's still

746
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 5: out on the Internet, just like the jury's still out.

747
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 5: I guess I'm the industrial age, right. Aren't we going

748
00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 5: to to promote human and other earthling flourishing? Or are

749
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,720
Speaker 5: we gonna double down on extraction and death. It's funny

750
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 5: I find AI is both better and worse than people think.

751
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 5: I mean, AI is simply the realization of al Gore's

752
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 5: original dream for the Internet. Right what al Gore said

753
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 5: way back when. I know he didn't build the Internet,

754
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 5: but he really did lead to its funding. He said,

755
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 5: I bet we already have all the solutions to all

756
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 5: of our greatest problems. We just don't know how to

757
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 5: put the data together. This scientist doesn't know that one.

758
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 5: This politician doesn't know that policy and what the Internet

759
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 5: was supposed to do was allow all those ideas to

760
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:47,760
Speaker 5: come together and be utilized. Google search was not enough

761
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 5: to do that. Google search is like casting out with

762
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 5: a fishing rod into the ocean and hoping that you

763
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 5: find something. What AI can do is bring those data

764
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 5: points together in a way that you can see and

765
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 5: a value them. So it's not replacing the human creation

766
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 5: of the activity the way we're using it and say entertainment,

767
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 5: you know, to get rid of actors or get rid

768
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 5: of screenwriters. But it can amalgamate stuff. It can draw

769
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 5: together ideas that we wouldn't have been able to do.

770
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 5: It can find these eight symptoms seem to actually lead

771
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 5: to this particular disease or centric. It can do things

772
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 5: that our brains aren't quite big enough to do that

773
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 5: would be so powerful. But it's going to require us

774
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 5: understanding data differently. We're going to have to really understand

775
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 5: data as more of a commons that we can use

776
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:43,280
Speaker 5: to figure things out together, rather than this proprietary bunch

777
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 5: of IP and surveillance and nuttiness. So I'm not really

778
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 5: worried about AI.

779
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: Tending American democracy or or let me rephrase, killing all

780
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: of us.

781
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 5: No, I'm not if you want some safeguards around this,

782
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 5: and it sounds so either I don't know, old new

783
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 5: age or mushroom influenced or something, but you know, make

784
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 5: real relationships with other people, learn how to make eye contact,

785
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 5: learn how to be with and breathe with other people.

786
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 5: If AI is going to be turned against us, it's

787
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 5: going to be used like the internet's being used to

788
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 5: decalibrate us, right, to alienate us from one another so

789
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 5: that we're better customers, more frightened voters, and more manipulable.

790
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 5: And you can recalibrate yourself in ten seconds by just

791
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 5: holding someone's hand and looking in their eyes and keeping

792
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,879
Speaker 5: your feet on the ground. I mean, even if you're

793
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 5: freaking out when you're tweeting, just stop for a second,

794
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 5: stand up with your feet on the ground, and take

795
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,959
Speaker 5: two deep breaths in through your nose out through your mouth.

796
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 5: You'll recalibrate your nervous system and musk will look different

797
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 5: to you.

798
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 2: You're saying that we should all touch grass.

799
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 5: Touch grass, right. That is the actual, natural, real way

800
00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 5: we have of defragging the hard drive or re starting

801
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 5: our operating system. To people today, going outside and touching

802
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 5: grass is probably as profound as like getting shock treatment

803
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:08,720
Speaker 5: in the nineteen fifty.

804
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no grass to touch where I live,

805
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: so I mean, I guess I couldn't.

806
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 5: But there's people. There's a child, yes.

807
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 2: Theoretical, yes they're not children anymore, but I do.

808
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 5: Have them, yeah, or humans, it really does. I just

809
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 5: play it. I do it on the street of New York.

810
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 5: I walk around and play this game. I try to

811
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 5: make eye contact to try to find someone who's not

812
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 5: on their phone and then just have that moment. It's

813
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,959
Speaker 5: like in body snatchers when you see another one who's

814
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 5: not snatched yet. It's like wink, weak, nudge, nudge, I'm.

815
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 4: Here, are you? You know?

816
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 5: It's not even a flirt. It's just like there's another

817
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 5: living human. It does settle you do. But that's again

818
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 5: that's why sorry, I don't mean to just compliment you.

819
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 5: It's why people listen to to fast politics. Fast It's

820
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 5: true because it's like it's human. It's just breathe with us.

821
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 5: You're you're helping us metabolize the shock and horror of

822
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 5: living in this age. And somehow it doesn't make it okay,

823
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 5: but it makes me less vulnerable to the programming, to

824
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 5: the programming that's trying to keep me tense and upset

825
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 5: and decalibrate it. So it's it's a precursor to being

826
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 5: able to program my own experience of this life.

827
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, so true. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

828
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 5: Thank you, thank you for what you do. I'm here

829
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 5: anytime for anything, whether I get credit or not. I

830
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 5: really I support this effort.

831
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 4: No moment time. Rick Wilson, Well, the jong Fast my

832
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 4: moments of fuckery this week does return, as we talked

833
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 4: about earlier in the show, to Project twenty twenty five

834
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 4: and the Heritage Foundation, who did this plan on Donald

835
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 4: Trump's behalf and behest. And anytime you hear someone say

836
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 4: Trump is to separated himself from twenty twenty, it's a lie, people,

837
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 4: It's a fucking lie. But the thing that's in that plan,

838
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 4: I want everybody this week who is suffering from the terrible,

839
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 4: damnag which the hurricane has done in Florida, in Georgia,

840
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 4: and most specifically in North Carolina, where the damage to

841
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 4: western North Carolina, part of the country I truly love

842
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 4: and I spent a lot of my time in in.

843
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 2: My life, and you used to have a house in Yeah.

844
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: It sorry, that was so mean.

845
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 4: I know. It's a very sad outcome. Yeah, and it's

846
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 4: a terrible moment for everyone. But Project twenty twenty five,

847
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 4: on its own pages, in its own words, wants to

848
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 4: eliminate Noah, which is the weather for Service. They want

849
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 4: to eliminate the National Hurricane Center because it uses the

850
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,240
Speaker 4: phrase a climate change maybe driving the intensity of these storms.

851
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 4: They want to eliminate FEMA or move FEMA so that

852
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 4: the president controls FEMA. I am sorry, but if you

853
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 4: buy in to getting rid of Noah and the Hurricane

854
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 4: Center and FEMA, you are putting the lives of the

855
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 4: people in these states that are increasingly facing these storms

856
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 4: at risk. So that Project twenty twenty five continuing catalog

857
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 4: of fuckery.

858
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and my they fuckery is actually related, tangentially related

859
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: to yours, which is that what has burst from this hurricane,

860
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 1: which I think is such a great example of like

861
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 1: it mirrors what happened with the pandemic, is that we

862
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: have all of these lies from magaworld saying that weather modification,

863
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: that the hurricane appeared from nowhere, that you know that

864
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: this was somehow not a real natural event, but somehow

865
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,240
Speaker 1: caused by Democrats or in some way targeting MAGA.

866
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 2: We think of it as laughably untrue.

867
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: But we thought about Donald Trump as laughably untrue in

868
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, and then he became president. So all of

869
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: this post truth stuff, well it's ridiculous. It can lead

870
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: to really bleak you know, those people who believed QAnon

871
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 1: and hurt people, you know, who believed QAnon was real

872
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: and then when and hurt people. This can happen through

873
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: this kind of on reality. So that, in fact, is

874
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:04,280
Speaker 1: my moment of reckery.

875
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 4: And Molly just a correlaor to to that bit. Right there,

876
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 4: I'm seeing all over social media the claim by magas

877
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 4: like Roy Cooper in North Carolina and Joe Biden have

878
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,959
Speaker 4: cut off North Carolina. They're not supporting us. They won't

879
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 4: declare an emergency, you dumb motherfuckers. They declared an emergency

880
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 4: before the storm even hit. FEMA is their enforce, National

881
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 4: Guard is their in force. It's an astounding lie, but

882
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 4: that's what they do.

883
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 2: Yep. Exactly. Thank you, Rick Wilson.

884
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 4: I will see you, Molly John Fast in Boston, Massachusetts.

885
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 4: Here we go, then Philly, then DC and the Philly

886
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 4: Show is all nude.

887
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

888
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,760
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds

889
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

890
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

891
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going.

892
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 2: And again, thanks for listening.