WEBVTT - #335 Maggie Freleng with Charles Jackson 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:09.080 Charles Jackson and his nephew, Houston Foster, were born just 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:11.520 two years apart, and they grew up together in the 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.920 same house in Cleveland, as close as any two brothers 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:18.200 could be. Even into their fifties, they still talked by 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.400 phone several times a week, sometimes for hours, about everything 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:26.720 under the sun. Houston had been diagnosed with stage four 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:30.080 kidney failure, so he was undergoing dialysis three times a 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:34.519 week and waiting hoping for a kidney transplant. He was 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:37.120 on the list, but as he told his uncle Charles, 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:40.520 the weight could be up to five years. 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.600 Who said, I had that loan to you know, live, 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:46.920 So by the grace of God, Charles came out. He said, 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:49.640 you know what, I'm all positive, nephew. I'm going to 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:51.240 give you one of my kidneys. 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:55.280 But there was a problem. 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.440 Charles was in prison for murder and had been for 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:00.680 nearly thirty years. 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:04.760 My name is Charles Jackson. I served twenty seven years, 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:07.520 six months in twenty day for a crime I didn't. 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:12.040 Commit from lava for good. 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:16.920 This is wrongful conviction with Maggie Freeling today, Charles Jackson 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:36.960 Charles Jackson, Junior, was born in Cleveland, Ohio, on January seventh, 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:41.399 nineteen sixty four, to Elizabeth Foster and Charles Jackson Senior. 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:44.840 And they had a big family as sisters. 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:48.360 I had five sisters and three more brothers, you know, 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:52.080 But I'm the baby out the whole bunch. They was 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:55.120 like teenagers, you know what I'm saying. So they were bigger, 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:56.720 and a couple of them was grown. 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.440 And it was because of this age difference with some 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:03.680 of his siblings that Charles became closest with his nephew, Houston. 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:08.600 Charles and Houston did everything together, and everyone in their 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:12.840 family adored Charles. Houston remembers how his uncle even earned 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:14.040 himself a nickname. 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:18.160 I think my grandmother. I think my grandmother she one 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.120 name from sweet Man, and I think that's where it 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:23.640 actually came from. Just called him sweet and that's what 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:25.040 everybody knew him by, a sweet man. 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:30.880 But Charles describes himself another way. 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.440 What's your personality? 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:42.840 My personality, I'm silly as hell and all my friends 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.120 and I just kept everybody laughing, everybody around me. 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.560 When he was about nine years old, Charles's parents divorced. 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.000 Charles decided to live with his dad, and for a while, 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:00.480 it was just the two of them, but occasionally Charles's 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.800 sister and her son, Houston, came to live with them. 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:07.600 Charles and Houston had always been like brothers, but living 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:09.800 together they were inseparable. 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:13.519 And we used to run home from after school because 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:17.320 he was in a grade higher than me, and I 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.360 go to get home from after school, you know, do 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:24.760 our homework and then go watch Batman and Robin. So 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:26.680 they started calling us Batman and Robin. 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:28.200 Who was Batman? 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:30.720 Who was Robbin? Well, you know, Charles had to be Batman. 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:32.240 He would never let me be Batman. 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:38.440 Charles was like a typical older brother, but by the 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.840 time he got to junior high school, things began to change. 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:46.160 I fought a lot, I was overweight, chubby, got bullied 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.280 on that next year I came to school, I slimmed down. 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:54.040 Nobody even knew me. That's when I started, I guess, 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:56.760 maturing and growing up, you know what I'm saying. And 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.280 that's when like my life turned like different. 0:03:59.560 --> 0:03:59.920 I guess. 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.040 I started learning how to play cars, and then I 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:04.800 had a lot of time on my hands because you know, 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:07.280 just me and my father. He'd be at work. So 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:09.760 I get out of school and you know what I'm saying, 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:11.440 so I got to do pretty much what. 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:12.040 I wanted to do. 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:16.279 When he was around eighteen, Charles's son, Christopher was born. 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:18.920 He was married by then, and he and his wife 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:22.080 at the time went on to have two more kids, twins, 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:23.360 Terry and Sherry. 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:25.800 I cooked and took care of the kids, you know 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.360 what I'm saying, Like, come from a big family, you 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:31.440 you know, you're always in the kitchen and somebody's always 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:33.600 running through the house. And so I had all that too, 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:34.280 you know what I mean. 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:36.599 How'd you support your family at the time. 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:41.880 Well, I was illegal sometimes, but I didn't kill anyone, 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.640 you know what I'm saying. Whatever I did, you know, 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:49.120 hustled or murder wasn't even in the picture. 0:04:56.400 --> 0:05:00.200 In the early morning hours of April seventh, nineteen ninety one, 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.800 the body of twenty nine year old Joe Travis was 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.960 found in the hallway of his apartment complex, dead from 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:11.120 a single gunshot wound to the head. There had been 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:14.679 an altercation earlier at the complex between rival drug dealers 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:19.320 Charlie Dog Davis and Omelia Tucker. Tucker had allegedly shot 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:23.359 at Davis, and as he left the complex, Davis yelled, quote, 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:27.280 you shot me, i'll be back. About forty five minutes later, 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:30.840 two men arrived and two shots were fired. The men 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:37.240 then vanished, leaving Joe Travis dead. Just over two weeks later, 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:41.080 twenty three year old Ronald Lacey was arrested on drug charges. 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:44.920 Lacey lived at the apartment complex, and he told police 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.559 he had witnessed the gunman shoot Travis in the head 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:50.839 over a drug altercation. He said that the shooter was 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:53.400 a regular in the neighborhood and that he drove a 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:57.440 nineteen seventy eight or nineteen seventy nine brown or maroon 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:02.800 Monte Carlo with chrome wheels and lower rider tires. As 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:06.200 it happened, twenty seven year old Charles Jackson also drove 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:08.800 a Monte Carlo and had recently had a run. 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:09.480 In with the police. 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:12.600 So I guess this is the same car that ron 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.000 Lacey said that I was driving, and the police had 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:19.720 pulled me over maybe a month or two before the end, 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:23.760 and I had a traffic ticket and I went to jail. 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:26.039 So when I went to jail, they took mudshots on me. 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:32.200 Police had suspected Charles of carrying drugs that night, but 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:36.160 finding nothing on him, they arrested him on a traffic violation. Instead, 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.040 the cop showed Lacey the mugshot they took that night, 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:43.560 and Lacey said, quote, that's definitely him. You don't forget 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:48.080 someone that tries to kill you. A month after the shooting, 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:52.080 on May eighth, nineteen ninety one, Charles was arrested while 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:53.440 sitting in a neighborhood bar. 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:56.919 They put their guns on me, They asked me for 0:06:56.960 --> 0:07:00.800 my driver's license. They saw my name, I guess, just 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:04.120 him and locked me up. So I ain't had none 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:08.680 to word about because I didn't do anything. And three 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.640 four days later, you know, I was charged with murder. 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.480 Yeah, Charles when he got arrested, and what he went 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:23.680 down for, I was, you know, I missed my buddy 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:24.480 because he was gone. 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:29.000 You know, Charles's nephew, Houston was devastated when Charles was 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:34.080 taken into custody. 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:39.120 I mean it was wow. That just bring back some 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:45.480 memories there. But it's touching. But I missed him so much, 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:48.920 and what he went down for really touched me because 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:51.440 I knew my uncle would never, you know, commit no 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:53.880 crime like that, because he'd never do nothing like that. 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:59.600 But that was my uncle, and. 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:08.360 Wow, Charles. 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:11.720 Meanwhile, was racking his brain to remember what he was 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:14.000 doing the night of that shooting. 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.880 Wondering like where was I. 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.440 You know what I'm saying, alibi, what was I doing? 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:24.400 And at the time, my girlfriend she had kept a 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:26.920 little little diary, you know what I'm saying, a little journal, 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:30.200 and she used right in there and she had told 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:31.960 me like that night, that was the night that we 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:33.320 had went to a party. 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:35.880 And then it started coming back. 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:38.679 And I ran the streets that night and I was 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.840 out late. I ran for the police the same night. 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:43.760 So I guess if I would and ran for the police, 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:45.920 I would have been in jail the night that Joe 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:47.719 Travis was murdered. 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:47.800 You know. 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:49.440 But I decided to run from the police. 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:53.400 In Charles's mind, if he hadn't run from the police 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:55.880 that night, he would have never been a suspect in 0:08:55.920 --> 0:09:03.920 the shooting. Before trial, Charles was assigned to Public Defenders 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:08.760 Edward Wade and Howard Manager. Charles still remembers his lawyer's 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:10.320 advice every way. 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.880 He was just chatting me like cop out, because you know, 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.120 I've been a lawyer all these years and all this stuff, 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.200 like they're saying this and that, and you know, I 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:22.760 said I ain't doing anything, so why should I cop 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:23.719 out to something I ain't do? 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:27.880 So instead of taking a plea bargain from the get go, 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:36.080 Charles went to trial in December of nineteen ninety one. 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:49.800 This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company. 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:54.160 AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and to making 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:57.280 a positive difference in the lives of its employees and 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.319 in the communities where we work and live. In light 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:04.040 of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:08.720 in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform, 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:13.200 the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:21.640 other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. The case against 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:25.960 Charles relied solely on the witness testimonies of Ronald Lacey 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:30.920 and O'melia Tucker. The prosecutors were Winston Gray and Thomas Rain. 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:39.160 They called Lacy to the stand first. Lacey, the man 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:42.680 who identified Charles's mugshot, repeated what he had told the 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:46.320 police that he saw Charles shoot dro Travis in the 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:50.240 head during an argument over drugs. The other witness was 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:54.280 Amelia Tucker, who remember had had a separate altercation that 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:58.360 night with Charlie dog Davis on the stand. Tucker said 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:00.880 she heard the shots and when she looked out the window, 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:02.679 she saw the gunman running away. 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:05.400 And she also said it was Charles. 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:10.520 Now sitting there just in this time me just don't 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.040 show no emotion in it and noun sitting there just 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:15.280 like exploding on the inside, you know what I'm saying, 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:17.400 Like she's lying. I'm going crazy. 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.480 Charles's defense did the best they could with these two eyewitnesses, 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:27.640 whose testimonies were the only evidence presented against Charles. They 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.800 countered with Charles's alibi at the time of the shooting 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.320 he was at a party with his girlfriend, but they 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:34.080 could have done more. 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:35.880 It turns out. 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:40.080 While Charles was in jail awaiting trial, he met a 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:43.800 guy from the neighborhood named Vincent. Vincent told Charles he 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.280 knew who shot Travis. He said it was a guy 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.559 named Jimmy. This turned out to be James Morris, the 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:53.920 nephew of Charlie Dog Davis, and this scenario would make sense. 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:56.760 His nephew might have wanted to get back at Tucker 0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:59.679 for shooting at Charlie dogg and Joe Travis. 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:06.360 He could have just been caught in the crossfire arms. 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:10.480 With this new information and a plausible scenario, Charles immediately 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:11.640 went to his lawyers. 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:16.320 I told Edy Way immediately that it's a guy in 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:20.000 here that say saw everything, and he said it's not me. 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:20.520 They did it. 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:27.000 But at trial, Charles's defense did not call Vincent to testify. Instead, 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:31.520 they presented photos of James, and in the pictures, James 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.600 looked nearly identical to Charles Jackson. 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:39.760 So when Ronald Lacey was on the witness stand, so 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:43.400 we cut time to cross examinum at a wayhead that 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.559 one picture of James. And he showed this picture to 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:49.640 Ronald Lacey and said who is just on this picture? 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:52.600 And Ronald Lacy looked at the picture and he didn't hesitate. 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:54.680 He said, this is a picture of sweet Man. 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.480 Sweet Man the child took nickname Charles was still known 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.600 by but many of the people in the courtroom knew 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.080 the picture was of James. 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.880 And I'm thinking, like, oh, nothing to go home now, 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.319 you know, if it had just be fire worse because 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:16.679 of this picture, and it wasn't nothing like that, It's 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:18.880 just it was like quiet. 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:23.320 The alibi and mistaken identity was not enough. After only 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.560 a few days of trial and deliberation, Charles was convicted 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.520 of murder and attempted murder with a firearm. He was 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.640 sentenced to seven to twenty five years for attempted murder, 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.079 three years for possession of a firearm, and twenty years 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:44.360 to life for the murder of Joe Travis. As Charles 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.400 settled into prison life, he started resigning himself to the 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:50.880 reality of being locked away forever. He knew too many 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.400 other people who had faced the same situation. 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:56.840 The only thing about prison is like it just seemed 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:00.000 like a ris of passage. Like in my neighborhood growing up, 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.080 Like I saw so many guys that I haven't saw 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.760 that I thought was dead or moved away, and they 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.280 were in prison for years, you know what I mean. 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:14.640 And it's just like A knew people there, and they 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:17.839 waiting on me, you know what I'm saying. They was 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:19.440 gonna take care of me. I was gonna be all right. 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:23.840 So I went in there with surviving on my mind. 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.760 Charles knew though, that in order to survive inside he 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:30.880 had to put up a pretty hard front. 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:33.120 And what a surviving mean? 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.560 Just I'm not gonna tell everybody I'm innocent, because they 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:41.840 don't want to hear that because they're doing all this time, 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:44.480 in fact, make them think like I'm not like them, 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.240 Then how can I survive? You know what I'm saying. 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.480 So I should have went in there trying to find 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:51.760 my way out, you know what I'm saying. I should 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.640 have went in there going to the library. Like I said, 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.720 I had a bad attitude. I was angry, you know, 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:01.360 and I felt like the took my life, you know. 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:05.800 So I'm just gonna be like no respect for no 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.480 type of authority. And for like the first ten years. 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:11.280 You know what I'm saying, I ain't even recognize myself 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:14.720 no more because I was turning to an animal. 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.480 While Charles was in prison, his fourth child, a daughter, 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:36.440 was born. Her name was Siarra. 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.160 Were you able to be a dad from prison? 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:50.640 It's crazy because like first, like she little and she 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:53.920 don't know you. She like the whole visiting day is 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:57.760 spent her trying to like not be scared of me, 0:15:57.880 --> 0:15:59.480 just sit on my lap or play with me. Then 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:01.240 by at the end of the day she'd be more 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:03.800 to play. Nice time for her to go. Then I 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:06.320 don't know when this time I'm gonna see her, and 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:08.760 I see her again. She a little bit bigger, got 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.160 her personality in the change, you know what I'm saying, 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.040 And I just watched her grow up like that, you know. 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:17.480 And then it got to a part to where her 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:21.880 mom like wasn't in my life, so she wasn't encouraging her. 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.720 And Charles knew that without any encouragement, no twelve or 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.120 thirteen year olds would want to spend their summers visiting 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:39.560 someone in prison. So his visits with Siarra ended. As 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.400 the years passed, things just kept getting worse. 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.280 I started getting older, and like I said, I ain't 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:51.160 recognize who I was. And then my relatives started passing away, 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.440 you know what I'm saying, And my mom died. And 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:57.760 that was like when like my life like turned around. 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.240 Because I felt I couldn't like I was living no more. 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:04.560 You know, Charles realized he needed to change his mindset 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:06.240 in order to change his life. 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:08.360 You know what, I've been here so long. I'd wake 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:09.760 up in the middle of the night and come up 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:11.760 with a way to get out. I need somebody to 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:13.440 listen till you help me, you know what I'm saying. 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.040 One thing that continued to sustain Charles during those years 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.320 was his connection to his nephew, Houston, the robin to 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:25.000 his batman. Houston was now a deacon living in Jacksonville, Florida, 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.000 and they talked by phone several times a week. But 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:30.960 Houston was going through challenges of his own. At the 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:32.000 age of fifty. 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:35.120 Three, he learned that he had stage four kidney failure. 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.560 And I told him I was all positive and I 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:40.879 needed a kitten, and I was gonna get on the 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.600 transplant list. But this Mike took two or three five 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:45.800 years to get a kitten. Who said, I had that 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:47.440 loan to, you know, live. 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:51.200 So he started off Dallas is like once a week, 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:52.760 and then it got so bad to he was in 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.159 like three times a week, and I'll be talking to 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:57.919 him why he beat her? And I said, man, I'm 0:17:57.960 --> 0:17:59.280 gonna get up out of here. Man, I'm gonna give 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.640 you a kidney man and his airding going to be good, 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.080 you know. And not knowing what's going to. 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:09.440 Happen me, Charles knew he had to find a way 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:13.040 to get out of prison his nephew's life depended on it. 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.520 Determined to fight for his exoneration, Charles wrote to the 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:31.680 Ohio Innocence Project to ask them to review his case, 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:32.960 and when they. 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:37.399 Did pretty quickly, we knew at the very least that 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:39.639 the government's case against Charles back at the time of 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:43.360 trial was really, really weak, so we started to look 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:43.920 at it more. 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:45.879 This is Donald Caster. 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.959 I'm a professor of clinical law with the Ohio Innocence 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:50.520 Project at the University of Cincinnati. 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:52.360 He's also Charles's attorney. 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:56.560 The police seized on this theory that Charles might have 0:18:56.600 --> 0:19:00.240 been the guy because Charles' car was somewhere near the area. 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:04.639 But it wasn't actually Charles's car. Remember, he drove him 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.000 on Carlo similar to the one used. 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:07.320 By the shooter. 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:11.440 The state also said that they had a credible witness. 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:16.080 And we'll put quotes around witness named Ron Lacey who 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.120 was there at the time and who said that he 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:23.280 saw the fatal shot being fired, and you know, put 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:25.440 a single picture in front of mister Lacy, and mister 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:28.880 Lacy says, yeah, that's the guy, and that's that's how 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.160 the police come to believe that it's Charles Jackson. 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:34.439 Is that even legal to just do one photo and 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:35.200 not a lineup? 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:37.800 It's not now, it's not now. At the time that 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:41.679 Charles was convicted. There were no standards at least, you know, 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.240 sort of by statute for what kind of lineup you 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:47.040 can do. Now, Ohio has a statute that says, if 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:48.680 you're going to do a lineup, this is the way 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:49.600 that you have to do it. 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:54.440 Charles's team continued to dig into his case. In twenty seventeen, 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:57.399 they were finally able to get a hold of previously 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:01.840 undisclosed police reports and what they learned was huge. 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:04.520 So these are all things that should have been turned 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:06.840 over to Charles's defense at the time of trial. That 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:09.119 would have made a huge difference, That would have saved 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:11.000 Charles all these years in prison. 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:12.680 So we're talking about Brady violations. 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:14.399 We are talking about Brady violations. 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:19.600 Brady violations are exactly that when the prosecution hides or 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:23.320 fails to disclose evidence favorable to a defendant. And the 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:28.080 reports revealed plenty of this. The first piece of evidence. 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.600 Well, Miss Tucker said one thing at trial. She had 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:34.280 said a very different thing the night of the shooting 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:36.479 and the day after the shooting to the police, and 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:38.600 what she had told the police was that she couldn't 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:40.800 see the face of the person who did the shooting, 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:43.600 that she wasn't going to be able to identify the shooter. 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:50.119 Remember, O'melia Tucker was the rival drug dealer who was 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:53.880 in the initial altercation. Her first statement to police said 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:55.920 that she looked out her window and saw a man 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.200 wearing a bulky jacket get into the rear passenger seat 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:01.760 of a gray car. His back was to her and 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:04.720 she did not see his face. In a second interview, 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:07.520 she repeated the same thing to police, that she did 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:08.359 not see a face. 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:09.320 Yet when she. 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:12.680 Testified at trial, she said she saw the shooter's face 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:14.359 and that it was Charles. 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:19.359 And obviously you'd want to know that. Their key eyewitness 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:23.840 said twice within thirty six hours of the shooting, I 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:26.720 didn't see the person's face. I can't tell you who 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:28.800 did it. You'd want to be able to ask that 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:32.160 person about those statements in front of jury, and Charles 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:33.240 never got that chance. 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:36.400 The second piece of evidence. 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:40.000 Miss t Lacey had made the statement that the shooter 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:44.280 had shot the decendent on the wrong side of the head, 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:46.439 that he identified the shot is going one place, the 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:49.560 corner identified, the shot is going the other. The defense 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:52.720 at the time of Charles's trial never knew these things. 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:58.119 Not only that there were more eyewitnesses to the crime 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.560 that were never called to testify. One of them was 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:03.240 a man named Thomas Salvano. 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:07.600 Mister Salvano saw it, He saw what happened, and there 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:11.359 was a statement in the records by him, but he 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:14.960 never he never gets called. He never. Nobody on Charles's 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:18.120 side knows what Salvano knows, which is that he saw 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:21.600 it and it wasn't Charles. And then we had a 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:26.160 private investigator go and talked to Selvano, who was amazingly 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:29.400 eager to help out. You know, he didn't have any 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:33.280 reason personally to want to help Charles, but he really 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:37.000 was stunned that the wrong person had been in prison 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:39.639 for that whole time, and he really felt like he 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:41.000 had a duty to help out. 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:49.640 When Charles's attorneys presented him with all this information, he 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:51.440 finally felt vindicated. 0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:54.360 Man. 0:22:54.760 --> 0:22:55.920 It was. 0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:00.359 They bled me, you didn't do this, you know, saying 0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:02.760 when somebody just believing you. You know, I said, we 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:05.119 already thought you didn't do it, but now we know 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:07.840 you didn't do it. That's not I was like, okay, cool, 0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:10.960 if I died that night, you know what I'm saying. 0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:14.200 I knew that someone knew that I you know, I 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:15.840 wasn't alone no more. 0:23:15.960 --> 0:23:16.560