1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: Charles Jackson and his nephew, Houston Foster, were born just 2 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: two years apart, and they grew up together in the 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: same house in Cleveland, as close as any two brothers 4 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: could be. Even into their fifties, they still talked by 5 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: phone several times a week, sometimes for hours, about everything 6 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: under the sun. Houston had been diagnosed with stage four 7 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: kidney failure, so he was undergoing dialysis three times a 8 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: week and waiting hoping for a kidney transplant. He was 9 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: on the list, but as he told his uncle Charles, 10 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: the weight could be up to five years. 11 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 2: Who said, I had that loan to you know, live, 12 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 2: So by the grace of God, Charles came out. He said, 13 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 2: you know what, I'm all positive, nephew. I'm going to 14 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 2: give you one of my kidneys. 15 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 3: But there was a problem. 16 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: Charles was in prison for murder and had been for 17 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: nearly thirty years. 18 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 4: My name is Charles Jackson. I served twenty seven years, 19 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 4: six months in twenty day for a crime I didn't. 20 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 3: Commit from lava for good. 21 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: This is wrongful conviction with Maggie Freeling today, Charles Jackson 22 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: Charles Jackson, Junior, was born in Cleveland, Ohio, on January seventh, 23 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four, to Elizabeth Foster and Charles Jackson Senior. 24 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 3: And they had a big family as sisters. 25 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 4: I had five sisters and three more brothers, you know, 26 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 4: But I'm the baby out the whole bunch. They was 27 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 4: like teenagers, you know what I'm saying. So they were bigger, 28 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 4: and a couple of them was grown. 29 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: And it was because of this age difference with some 30 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: of his siblings that Charles became closest with his nephew, Houston. 31 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: Charles and Houston did everything together, and everyone in their 32 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: family adored Charles. Houston remembers how his uncle even earned 33 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: himself a nickname. 34 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 2: I think my grandmother. I think my grandmother she one 35 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 2: name from sweet Man, and I think that's where it 36 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 2: actually came from. Just called him sweet and that's what 37 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: everybody knew him by, a sweet man. 38 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 3: But Charles describes himself another way. 39 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 5: What's your personality? 40 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 4: My personality, I'm silly as hell and all my friends 41 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 4: and I just kept everybody laughing, everybody around me. 42 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: When he was about nine years old, Charles's parents divorced. 43 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: Charles decided to live with his dad, and for a while, 44 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: it was just the two of them, but occasionally Charles's 45 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: sister and her son, Houston, came to live with them. 46 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: Charles and Houston had always been like brothers, but living 47 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: together they were inseparable. 48 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,519 Speaker 2: And we used to run home from after school because 49 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 2: he was in a grade higher than me, and I 50 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 2: go to get home from after school, you know, do 51 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 2: our homework and then go watch Batman and Robin. So 52 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 2: they started calling us Batman and Robin. 53 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 3: Who was Batman? 54 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: Who was Robbin? Well, you know, Charles had to be Batman. 55 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 2: He would never let me be Batman. 56 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: Charles was like a typical older brother, but by the 57 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: time he got to junior high school, things began to change. 58 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 4: I fought a lot, I was overweight, chubby, got bullied 59 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 4: on that next year I came to school, I slimmed down. 60 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 4: Nobody even knew me. That's when I started, I guess, 61 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 4: maturing and growing up, you know what I'm saying. And 62 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 4: that's when like my life turned like different. 63 00:03:59,560 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: I guess. 64 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 4: I started learning how to play cars, and then I 65 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 4: had a lot of time on my hands because you know, 66 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 4: just me and my father. He'd be at work. So 67 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 4: I get out of school and you know what I'm saying, 68 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 4: so I got to do pretty much what. 69 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 6: I wanted to do. 70 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: When he was around eighteen, Charles's son, Christopher was born. 71 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: He was married by then, and he and his wife 72 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: at the time went on to have two more kids, twins, 73 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: Terry and Sherry. 74 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 4: I cooked and took care of the kids, you know 75 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 4: what I'm saying, Like, come from a big family, you 76 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 4: you know, you're always in the kitchen and somebody's always 77 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 4: running through the house. And so I had all that too, 78 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 4: you know what I mean. 79 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 5: How'd you support your family at the time. 80 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 4: Well, I was illegal sometimes, but I didn't kill anyone, 81 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying. Whatever I did, you know, 82 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 4: hustled or murder wasn't even in the picture. 83 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: In the early morning hours of April seventh, nineteen ninety one, 84 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: the body of twenty nine year old Joe Travis was 85 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: found in the hallway of his apartment complex, dead from 86 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: a single gunshot wound to the head. There had been 87 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,679 Speaker 1: an altercation earlier at the complex between rival drug dealers 88 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: Charlie Dog Davis and Omelia Tucker. Tucker had allegedly shot 89 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: at Davis, and as he left the complex, Davis yelled, quote, 90 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 1: you shot me, i'll be back. About forty five minutes later, 91 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: two men arrived and two shots were fired. The men 92 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: then vanished, leaving Joe Travis dead. Just over two weeks later, 93 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: twenty three year old Ronald Lacey was arrested on drug charges. 94 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: Lacey lived at the apartment complex, and he told police 95 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,559 Speaker 1: he had witnessed the gunman shoot Travis in the head 96 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: over a drug altercation. He said that the shooter was 97 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: a regular in the neighborhood and that he drove a 98 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight or nineteen seventy nine brown or maroon 99 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: Monte Carlo with chrome wheels and lower rider tires. As 100 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: it happened, twenty seven year old Charles Jackson also drove 101 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: a Monte Carlo and had recently had a run. 102 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 3: In with the police. 103 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 4: So I guess this is the same car that ron 104 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 4: Lacey said that I was driving, and the police had 105 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 4: pulled me over maybe a month or two before the end, 106 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 4: and I had a traffic ticket and I went to jail. 107 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 4: So when I went to jail, they took mudshots on me. 108 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: Police had suspected Charles of carrying drugs that night, but 109 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: finding nothing on him, they arrested him on a traffic violation. Instead, 110 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: the cop showed Lacey the mugshot they took that night, 111 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: and Lacey said, quote, that's definitely him. You don't forget 112 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: someone that tries to kill you. A month after the shooting, 113 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: on May eighth, nineteen ninety one, Charles was arrested while 114 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: sitting in a neighborhood bar. 115 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 4: They put their guns on me, They asked me for 116 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 4: my driver's license. They saw my name, I guess, just 117 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 4: him and locked me up. So I ain't had none 118 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 4: to word about because I didn't do anything. And three 119 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 4: four days later, you know, I was charged with murder. 120 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, Charles when he got arrested, and what he went 121 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 2: down for, I was, you know, I missed my buddy 122 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: because he was gone. 123 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: You know, Charles's nephew, Houston was devastated when Charles was 124 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: taken into custody. 125 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 2: I mean it was wow. That just bring back some 126 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 2: memories there. But it's touching. But I missed him so much, 127 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 2: and what he went down for really touched me because 128 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: I knew my uncle would never, you know, commit no 129 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 2: crime like that, because he'd never do nothing like that. 130 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 2: But that was my uncle, and. 131 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 3: Wow, Charles. 132 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, was racking his brain to remember what he was 133 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: doing the night of that shooting. 134 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 6: Wondering like where was I. 135 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying, alibi, what was I doing? 136 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 4: And at the time, my girlfriend she had kept a 137 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 4: little little diary, you know what I'm saying, a little journal, 138 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 4: and she used right in there and she had told 139 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 4: me like that night, that was the night that we 140 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 4: had went to a party. 141 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 3: And then it started coming back. 142 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 4: And I ran the streets that night and I was 143 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 4: out late. I ran for the police the same night. 144 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 4: So I guess if I would and ran for the police, 145 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 4: I would have been in jail the night that Joe 146 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:47,719 Speaker 4: Travis was murdered. 147 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 6: You know. 148 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 4: But I decided to run from the police. 149 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: In Charles's mind, if he hadn't run from the police 150 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: that night, he would have never been a suspect in 151 00:08:55,920 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: the shooting. Before trial, Charles was assigned to Public Defenders 152 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: Edward Wade and Howard Manager. Charles still remembers his lawyer's 153 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: advice every way. 154 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 4: He was just chatting me like cop out, because you know, 155 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 4: I've been a lawyer all these years and all this stuff, 156 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 4: like they're saying this and that, and you know, I 157 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 4: said I ain't doing anything, so why should I cop 158 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:23,719 Speaker 4: out to something I ain't do? 159 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: So instead of taking a plea bargain from the get go, 160 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: Charles went to trial in December of nineteen ninety one. 161 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company. 162 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and to making 163 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and 164 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 1: in the communities where we work and live. In light 165 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and 166 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform, 167 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and 168 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. The case against 169 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: Charles relied solely on the witness testimonies of Ronald Lacey 170 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: and O'melia Tucker. The prosecutors were Winston Gray and Thomas Rain. 171 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: They called Lacy to the stand first. Lacey, the man 172 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: who identified Charles's mugshot, repeated what he had told the 173 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: police that he saw Charles shoot dro Travis in the 174 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: head during an argument over drugs. The other witness was 175 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: Amelia Tucker, who remember had had a separate altercation that 176 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: night with Charlie dog Davis on the stand. Tucker said 177 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: she heard the shots and when she looked out the window, 178 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:02,679 Speaker 1: she saw the gunman running away. 179 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 3: And she also said it was Charles. 180 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 4: Now sitting there just in this time me just don't 181 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 4: show no emotion in it and noun sitting there just 182 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 4: like exploding on the inside, you know what I'm saying, 183 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 4: Like she's lying. I'm going crazy. 184 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: Charles's defense did the best they could with these two eyewitnesses, 185 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: whose testimonies were the only evidence presented against Charles. They 186 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: countered with Charles's alibi at the time of the shooting 187 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: he was at a party with his girlfriend, but they 188 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 1: could have done more. 189 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 3: It turns out. 190 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: While Charles was in jail awaiting trial, he met a 191 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: guy from the neighborhood named Vincent. Vincent told Charles he 192 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: knew who shot Travis. He said it was a guy 193 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: named Jimmy. This turned out to be James Morris, the 194 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: nephew of Charlie Dog Davis, and this scenario would make sense. 195 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: His nephew might have wanted to get back at Tucker 196 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: for shooting at Charlie dogg and Joe Travis. 197 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 3: He could have just been caught in the crossfire arms. 198 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: With this new information and a plausible scenario, Charles immediately 199 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: went to his lawyers. 200 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 4: I told Edy Way immediately that it's a guy in 201 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 4: here that say saw everything, and he said it's not me. 202 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 4: They did it. 203 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: But at trial, Charles's defense did not call Vincent to testify. Instead, 204 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: they presented photos of James, and in the pictures, James 205 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: looked nearly identical to Charles Jackson. 206 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 4: So when Ronald Lacey was on the witness stand, so 207 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 4: we cut time to cross examinum at a wayhead that 208 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 4: one picture of James. And he showed this picture to 209 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 4: Ronald Lacey and said who is just on this picture? 210 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 4: And Ronald Lacy looked at the picture and he didn't hesitate. 211 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 4: He said, this is a picture of sweet Man. 212 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: Sweet Man the child took nickname Charles was still known 213 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: by but many of the people in the courtroom knew 214 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: the picture was of James. 215 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 4: And I'm thinking, like, oh, nothing to go home now, 216 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 4: you know, if it had just be fire worse because 217 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 4: of this picture, and it wasn't nothing like that, It's 218 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 4: just it was like quiet. 219 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: The alibi and mistaken identity was not enough. After only 220 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: a few days of trial and deliberation, Charles was convicted 221 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: of murder and attempted murder with a firearm. He was 222 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: sentenced to seven to twenty five years for attempted murder, 223 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 1: three years for possession of a firearm, and twenty years 224 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: to life for the murder of Joe Travis. As Charles 225 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: settled into prison life, he started resigning himself to the 226 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: reality of being locked away forever. He knew too many 227 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: other people who had faced the same situation. 228 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 4: The only thing about prison is like it just seemed 229 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 4: like a ris of passage. Like in my neighborhood growing up, 230 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 4: Like I saw so many guys that I haven't saw 231 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 4: that I thought was dead or moved away, and they 232 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 4: were in prison for years, you know what I mean. 233 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 4: And it's just like A knew people there, and they 234 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,839 Speaker 4: waiting on me, you know what I'm saying. They was 235 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 4: gonna take care of me. I was gonna be all right. 236 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 4: So I went in there with surviving on my mind. 237 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: Charles knew though, that in order to survive inside he 238 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: had to put up a pretty hard front. 239 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 5: And what a surviving mean? 240 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 4: Just I'm not gonna tell everybody I'm innocent, because they 241 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 4: don't want to hear that because they're doing all this time, 242 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 4: in fact, make them think like I'm not like them, 243 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 4: Then how can I survive? You know what I'm saying. 244 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 4: So I should have went in there trying to find 245 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 4: my way out, you know what I'm saying. I should 246 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 4: have went in there going to the library. Like I said, 247 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 4: I had a bad attitude. I was angry, you know, 248 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 4: and I felt like the took my life, you know. 249 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 4: So I'm just gonna be like no respect for no 250 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 4: type of authority. And for like the first ten years. 251 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying, I ain't even recognize myself 252 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 4: no more because I was turning to an animal. 253 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: While Charles was in prison, his fourth child, a daughter, 254 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: was born. Her name was Siarra. 255 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 5: Were you able to be a dad from prison? 256 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 4: It's crazy because like first, like she little and she 257 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 4: don't know you. She like the whole visiting day is 258 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 4: spent her trying to like not be scared of me, 259 00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 4: just sit on my lap or play with me. Then 260 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 4: by at the end of the day she'd be more 261 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 4: to play. Nice time for her to go. Then I 262 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 4: don't know when this time I'm gonna see her, and 263 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 4: I see her again. She a little bit bigger, got 264 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 4: her personality in the change, you know what I'm saying, 265 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 4: And I just watched her grow up like that, you know. 266 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 4: And then it got to a part to where her 267 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 4: mom like wasn't in my life, so she wasn't encouraging her. 268 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: And Charles knew that without any encouragement, no twelve or 269 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: thirteen year olds would want to spend their summers visiting 270 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: someone in prison. So his visits with Siarra ended. As 271 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: the years passed, things just kept getting worse. 272 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 4: I started getting older, and like I said, I ain't 273 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 4: recognize who I was. And then my relatives started passing away, 274 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying, And my mom died. And 275 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 4: that was like when like my life like turned around. 276 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 4: Because I felt I couldn't like I was living no more. 277 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: You know, Charles realized he needed to change his mindset 278 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: in order to change his life. 279 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 4: You know what, I've been here so long. I'd wake 280 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 4: up in the middle of the night and come up 281 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 4: with a way to get out. I need somebody to 282 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 4: listen till you help me, you know what I'm saying. 283 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: One thing that continued to sustain Charles during those years 284 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: was his connection to his nephew, Houston, the robin to 285 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: his batman. Houston was now a deacon living in Jacksonville, Florida, 286 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: and they talked by phone several times a week. But 287 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: Houston was going through challenges of his own. At the 288 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: age of fifty. 289 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 3: Three, he learned that he had stage four kidney failure. 290 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 2: And I told him I was all positive and I 291 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 2: needed a kitten, and I was gonna get on the 292 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 2: transplant list. But this Mike took two or three five 293 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 2: years to get a kitten. Who said, I had that 294 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 2: loan to, you know, live. 295 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 4: So he started off Dallas is like once a week, 296 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 4: and then it got so bad to he was in 297 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 4: like three times a week, and I'll be talking to 298 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 4: him why he beat her? And I said, man, I'm 299 00:17:57,960 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 4: gonna get up out of here. Man, I'm gonna give 300 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 4: you a kidney man and his airding going to be good, 301 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 4: you know. And not knowing what's going to. 302 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 1: Happen me, Charles knew he had to find a way 303 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: to get out of prison his nephew's life depended on it. 304 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: Determined to fight for his exoneration, Charles wrote to the 305 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: Ohio Innocence Project to ask them to review his case, 306 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: and when they. 307 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 6: Did pretty quickly, we knew at the very least that 308 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 6: the government's case against Charles back at the time of 309 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 6: trial was really, really weak, so we started to look 310 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 6: at it more. 311 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 3: This is Donald Caster. 312 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,959 Speaker 6: I'm a professor of clinical law with the Ohio Innocence 313 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 6: Project at the University of Cincinnati. 314 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:52,360 Speaker 3: He's also Charles's attorney. 315 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 6: The police seized on this theory that Charles might have 316 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 6: been the guy because Charles' car was somewhere near the area. 317 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: But it wasn't actually Charles's car. Remember, he drove him 318 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: on Carlo similar to the one used. 319 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 3: By the shooter. 320 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: The state also said that they had a credible witness. 321 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 6: And we'll put quotes around witness named Ron Lacey who 322 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 6: was there at the time and who said that he 323 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 6: saw the fatal shot being fired, and you know, put 324 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 6: a single picture in front of mister Lacy, and mister 325 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 6: Lacy says, yeah, that's the guy, and that's that's how 326 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 6: the police come to believe that it's Charles Jackson. 327 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 5: Is that even legal to just do one photo and 328 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 5: not a lineup? 329 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 6: It's not now, it's not now. At the time that 330 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 6: Charles was convicted. There were no standards at least, you know, 331 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 6: sort of by statute for what kind of lineup you 332 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 6: can do. Now, Ohio has a statute that says, if 333 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 6: you're going to do a lineup, this is the way 334 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 6: that you have to do it. 335 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 1: Charles's team continued to dig into his case. In twenty seventeen, 336 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: they were finally able to get a hold of previously 337 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: undisclosed police reports and what they learned was huge. 338 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 6: So these are all things that should have been turned 339 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 6: over to Charles's defense at the time of trial. That 340 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 6: would have made a huge difference, That would have saved 341 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 6: Charles all these years in prison. 342 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 5: So we're talking about Brady violations. 343 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 6: We are talking about Brady violations. 344 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: Brady violations are exactly that when the prosecution hides or 345 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: fails to disclose evidence favorable to a defendant. And the 346 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: reports revealed plenty of this. The first piece of evidence. 347 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 6: Well, Miss Tucker said one thing at trial. She had 348 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 6: said a very different thing the night of the shooting 349 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,479 Speaker 6: and the day after the shooting to the police, and 350 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 6: what she had told the police was that she couldn't 351 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 6: see the face of the person who did the shooting, 352 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 6: that she wasn't going to be able to identify the shooter. 353 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: Remember, O'melia Tucker was the rival drug dealer who was 354 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: in the initial altercation. Her first statement to police said 355 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: that she looked out her window and saw a man 356 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: wearing a bulky jacket get into the rear passenger seat 357 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: of a gray car. His back was to her and 358 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: she did not see his face. In a second interview, 359 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: she repeated the same thing to police, that she did 360 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: not see a face. 361 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 3: Yet when she. 362 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: Testified at trial, she said she saw the shooter's face 363 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: and that it was Charles. 364 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 6: And obviously you'd want to know that. Their key eyewitness 365 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 6: said twice within thirty six hours of the shooting, I 366 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 6: didn't see the person's face. I can't tell you who 367 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 6: did it. You'd want to be able to ask that 368 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 6: person about those statements in front of jury, and Charles 369 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 6: never got that chance. 370 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 3: The second piece of evidence. 371 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 6: Miss t Lacey had made the statement that the shooter 372 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 6: had shot the decendent on the wrong side of the head, 373 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 6: that he identified the shot is going one place, the 374 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 6: corner identified, the shot is going the other. The defense 375 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 6: at the time of Charles's trial never knew these things. 376 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: Not only that there were more eyewitnesses to the crime 377 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: that were never called to testify. One of them was 378 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: a man named Thomas Salvano. 379 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 6: Mister Salvano saw it, He saw what happened, and there 380 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 6: was a statement in the records by him, but he 381 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 6: never he never gets called. He never. Nobody on Charles's 382 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 6: side knows what Salvano knows, which is that he saw 383 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 6: it and it wasn't Charles. And then we had a 384 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 6: private investigator go and talked to Selvano, who was amazingly 385 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 6: eager to help out. You know, he didn't have any 386 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 6: reason personally to want to help Charles, but he really 387 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 6: was stunned that the wrong person had been in prison 388 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 6: for that whole time, and he really felt like he 389 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 6: had a duty to help out. 390 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 1: When Charles's attorneys presented him with all this information, he 391 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: finally felt vindicated. 392 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 4: Man. 393 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: It was. 394 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 4: They bled me, you didn't do this, you know, saying 395 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 4: when somebody just believing you. You know, I said, we 396 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 4: already thought you didn't do it, but now we know 397 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 4: you didn't do it. That's not I was like, okay, cool, 398 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 4: if I died that night, you know what I'm saying. 399 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 4: I knew that someone knew that I you know, I 400 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 4: wasn't alone no more. 401 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying. 402 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 4: I had a voice again. 403 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, Charles was granted a hearing to present 404 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: all this newly discovered evidence to a judge. Judge Robert 405 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: McClelland felt the evidence was compelling enough to sign an 406 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: order vacating Charles's convictions. 407 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 3: He ruled that Charles should get a new trial. 408 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: Months later, Donald Caster was driving to Cleveland for a 409 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 1: hearing in Charles's case when he got a call. 410 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 6: The prosecutor called me on my cell phone. So I 411 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 6: had to pull over because I'm starting to cry. 412 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: He immediately called the rest of the team, who were 413 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: also on their way to the hearing, So, okay, you guys. 414 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 6: Need to pull over before I tell you this. And 415 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 6: then I said, you know they're going to concede. And 416 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 6: it's because Lacey's backed away from his story. 417 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: At the time of trial, Ronald Lacy, the star witness 418 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 1: and first person to implicate Charles, was suddenly changing his story. 419 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,239 Speaker 6: And he said that they had reinterviewed mister Lacey and 420 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 6: that mister Lacey had backed away from saying that he 421 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 6: saw the fatal shot being. 422 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:46,919 Speaker 1: Fired without Lacy. The state didn't have a case. Tucker 423 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: had been discredited by this time, and there was never 424 00:24:50,080 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: any physical evidence to begin with. On twenty seventh, twenty eighteen, 425 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: fifty five year old Charles Jackson was released after almost 426 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 1: twenty eight years in prison. Though at first officials got 427 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: the right name, but the wrong person. 428 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 6: They brought the wrong They brought the wrong Charles out. 429 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 3: At first, right, they brought the wrong Charles Jackson out. 430 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 4: Not only was like, you know, imagia for somebody do wait? 431 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 5: Were was this guy like, oh, I guess it's my time. 432 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 6: And we had to tell we were like, wait, we 433 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 6: don't know. This is not our Charles. 434 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 4: It's funny when it ain't funny. But you know what 435 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 4: I'm saying, They got the wrong money, and I they 436 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 4: tried to get the wrong one out. I mean, come on. 437 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: After the snafu and after the right Charles Jackson was released, 438 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: the day was joyous for everyone, but Houston was still 439 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: in need of a kidney, and Charles, now a freeman, 440 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: was on a mission. Once it was confirmed that he 441 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: was a match, he headed down to Florida, where his 442 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: nephew was waiting, and. 443 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:06,199 Speaker 2: H He gave me, you couldn't and everything, But I 444 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 2: thank God for him because I don't know, you know 445 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,959 Speaker 2: where I beat. I might have been been hearing today, 446 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 2: but one for the blessing that he gave me was it. 447 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 2: You know, he was more than like my brother. He 448 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 2: was like he was like a hero because even though 449 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 2: they said he took a life, but he didn't take 450 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 2: no life. He helped save a life. So to me, 451 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 2: that's a hero to me, he was just a blessing 452 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 2: to me. 453 00:26:46,920 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 3: Excuse today. 454 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: Charles lives in a quiet suburb of Cleveland in a 455 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: communal house known as the exon Maree Home. 456 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 4: So it started off like it was just a house, 457 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying. Now you know it's more 458 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 4: of a home now. 459 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 5: So what is that like to live with other Exoneries. 460 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 5: Do you feel like they understand you better than other people? Might? 461 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 4: They definitely do, because everybody else, like you know, being 462 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 4: in jail for so long, didn't come out here. It's 463 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 4: like it's you dropped me from I came could have 464 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 4: been from another planet or something, so nobody understand what 465 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 4: you went through except for another person who've been through 466 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 4: exact same thing. So that's with fore that brotherhood, you know, 467 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 4: Johonnerees like we a different kind. We take care of 468 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 4: each other. 469 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 5: You know. 470 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: When Charles first got to the ex Hoondinary Home, he 471 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 1: took special care of one of his older housemaates. Isaiah Andrews, 472 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: was wrongfully convicted of murder ineighteen seventy four. He was 473 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: exonerated in twenty twenty one at the age of eighty four, 474 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: and he died less than a year later, right after 475 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: he was awarded compensation by the City of Cleveland for 476 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 1: his wrongful imprisonment. These days, Charles spends a lot of 477 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: his time advocating for the wrongfully incarcerated and cooking for 478 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: his friends and housemates at the Exonery Home. He's just 479 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: completed a culinary training course and has ambitions to open 480 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: his own food truck, although, as his nephew Houston tells it, 481 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: Charles wasn't always a foodie. 482 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 2: When me and Charles was coming up, Charles wouldn't eat anything. 483 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. He had If my grandmother 484 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 2: cooks the home cooked meal, Charles had to go to 485 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 2: McDonald's a burger king because he wouldn't eat necesside. Charles 486 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 2: was but me, I should watch my mother and my 487 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 2: grandmother and them cook all the time. 488 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,719 Speaker 1: Houston even comes and helps out in the kitchen at 489 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: the Exonery Home. 490 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 2: I'm not gonna say I can cook better than Charles, 491 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 2: but I get Charles to run for with money. I'll 492 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 2: leave it at that. It ain't all about who can 493 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 2: cook better than who you right, But I gotta tell 494 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 2: them I said, Robin can cook better than Betman. You 495 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 2: might can do something better than me, but I can 496 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 2: cook bet yes, ma'am. 497 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, we cook. We definitely cold. You can definitely 498 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 4: get something to eat at the designer. 499 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 5: Of your house. 500 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: If you want to donate to the Exonay Home, go 501 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: to x Dash Freedom Studio dot org. You'll find that 502 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: link in our bio, along with other ways to help 503 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: support Charles. Next time un Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling 504 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: Amelia byrd did you ever ask Chad to kill your parents? 505 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 4: I wanted my gradually by mam alone and me alone 506 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 4: by Idie William Dad. 507 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. Please 508 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 1: support your local innocence organizations and go to the links 509 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: in our bio to see how you can help I'd 510 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: like to thank our executive producers, Jason Flamm and Kevin Wordis, 511 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: as well as our senior producer, Annie Chelsea, producer Lyla Robinson, 512 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: and story editor Sonia Paul. The show is edited and 513 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: mixed by Annie Chelsea, with additional production by Jeff Cliburn 514 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: and Connor Hall. The music in this production is by 515 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to 516 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at 517 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at Wrong Conviction, as 518 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: well as at Lava for Good. 519 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 3: On all three platforms, you. 520 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: Can also follow me on both Instagram and Twitter at 521 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a production 522 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal come 523 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: Phony Number one