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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and ofcome stuff I

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Speaker 1: Never told your production iHeart Radio. And today we are

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Speaker 1: bringing back an episode that we should we should come

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Speaker 1: back to. I think I I yeah, I think you

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Speaker 1: would agree to math. But it was about the feminism

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Speaker 1: of K pop.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and I go into a history because obviously this

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Speaker 2: was for me as well, about the good and the

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Speaker 2: bad of K pop and feminism behind it. There's a

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Speaker 2: lot going on in K pop world right now between

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Speaker 2: the K pop demon Hunters and BTS coming back uh

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Speaker 2: and going full throttle with their tour y'all. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you listen to the new album, but I

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Speaker 2: dig it. But they also have a lot of controversy

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Speaker 2: as well. But all of that to say, I thought

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Speaker 2: it would be a good time. We thought it'd be

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Speaker 2: a good time to bring it back to kind of

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Speaker 2: brush up on some of the backgrounds of Cabo.

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Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely so please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this

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Speaker 1: is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephan Never Told

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Speaker 1: you production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: Annie, can we talk about boy bands and girl bands?

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Speaker 3: Are you ready for this?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I hope so.

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Speaker 3: I think you will be ready. But as a precursor.

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Speaker 3: We talked about boy bands in the US and what

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Speaker 3: was your favorite boy band?

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess it was Backstreet Boys. I didn't really

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Speaker 1: I didn't get as caught up in all of that.

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Speaker 3: You were a little younger for that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I like the most of the music I listened

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Speaker 1: to at a young age, like the first CD I

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Speaker 1: bought this Jimmy World, Green Day and the Phantom Menace soundtrack.

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Speaker 1: Like if that gives you any.

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Speaker 3: So you were cool, you were one of the cool kids.

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Speaker 1: I was not cool. No, But I think of like

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Speaker 1: the you know, ncinc Versus Backstreet Boys, right debate. I

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Speaker 1: was on the Backstreet Boys side.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so you have been with my older sister, which

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Speaker 3: is really funny because typically the older generation goes with

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Speaker 3: the older people who got into the boy band would

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Speaker 3: probably say Backstreet Boys. And I do mean, like, my

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Speaker 3: sister was in the era of new Kids on the

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Speaker 3: Block and I was too, and I really did like them.

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Speaker 3: But I was super young for that. But yeah, I

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Speaker 3: was an n Sync fan. I was in high school

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Speaker 3: when Enzync came out, like right before I think it

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Speaker 3: was right as I was graduating. But I really enjoyed

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Speaker 3: that music more so than the Backstreet Boys. I am

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Speaker 3: team in sync. I will say that for myself, but

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Speaker 3: I really enjoy a good like pop band because one

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Speaker 3: of the first CDs outside of No Doubt for me

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Speaker 3: was Spice Girls and I back then, of course, I

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Speaker 3: was embarrassed because I really wanted to be the person

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Speaker 3: that says, yeah, I definitely only listened to Green Day

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Speaker 3: and Bush and all that, and of course I loved

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Speaker 3: No Doubt, but like saying Spice Girls was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: get that, keep that under wraps. We're gonna keep that

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Speaker 3: under wraps. But now we all know they are a delight,

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Speaker 3: and we still we celebrate them today as you should.

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Speaker 3: I feel like the gen z ers understand and have

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Speaker 3: kind of come back to love them as they should.

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Speaker 3: So I'm a fan. I'm a fan, so of course,

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Speaker 3: being that when I've been listening to K pop recently,

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Speaker 3: I know everybody knows my new obsessions I have, like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I enjoy this. Okay, let's talk about this. And because

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Speaker 3: I've been wanting to talk about this and I've been

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Speaker 3: geeking out about it, We're gonna do this topic and

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Speaker 3: I'm forcing you into this, and it's long and it

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Speaker 3: is somewhat dark of a subject. So let's go ahead

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Speaker 3: and put a content warning. Y'all, we are going to

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Speaker 3: talk about eating disorders, abuse, and suicide in this conversation.

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Speaker 3: If you know much about K pop, I have a

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Speaker 3: feeling you know about that as well. So we can't

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Speaker 3: ignore that I sent you some homework you did. I

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Speaker 3: slowed it down because this has been in the making

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Speaker 3: for a while, but it's a huge outline, be a

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Speaker 3: huge one. So what do you know about K pop?

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Speaker 1: I know that people love it, uh, and it has

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Speaker 1: a lot of fans. Most of what I know is

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Speaker 1: through you and our shared friend Marisa, who had I

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Speaker 1: told you a lot of the videos you sent me

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Speaker 1: she had shown me before. I actually think we were

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Speaker 1: together when that happened. I feel like vaguely we were.

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Speaker 3: Oh watch the videos videos, Yes, yeah, I think the

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Speaker 3: majority of the videos that we watched were BTS because she,

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Speaker 3: Yeah and her mom are BTS fans. Hey, Marissa. Because

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Speaker 3: there was another K pop group who was made up

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Speaker 3: of all women who actually are like kind of queer icons, uh,

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Speaker 3: I love them, called Mama Moo. They were here and

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Speaker 3: there was an opportunity for someone to go and I

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Speaker 3: don't go to shows because I'm like, I'm too old.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to stand up. I don't I can't

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Speaker 3: deal with this. I don't want to deal with traffic.

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Speaker 3: I sent a Marissa a message and she was like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know who that is. So I think she

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Speaker 3: kind of leans into the BTS world, which is perfectly

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Speaker 3: understandable because they are kind of what you think of

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Speaker 3: when you think of K pop now, and we're going

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Speaker 3: to talk a little bit about them. But she she knows,

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Speaker 3: she knows, and her mom apparently knows a lot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a concert, I love that, la, Yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 1: I love all about that.

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Speaker 3: So we are that's what we're talking about today is

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Speaker 3: K pop, and we are talking about how it's influencing internationally,

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Speaker 3: and because the majority of fans are women, when we're

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Speaker 3: talking about the impact they have and the implications, we

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Speaker 3: are talking about it in the perspective of influencing more

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Speaker 3: women and girls than anything else. So even though you

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Speaker 3: may be like, why is this about feminism, this is why,

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Speaker 3: and when you hear about the topics, especially in the

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Speaker 3: dark topics, it's something to remember. So we're gonna go

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Speaker 3: with the history and definitions because that's what we do,

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Speaker 3: so and we have a lot of them. I did

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Speaker 3: cut them down because I'm like, this is unnecessary. This

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Speaker 3: is unnecessary because I don't know why. I just love

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Speaker 3: the fun facts of it all, I guess. But the

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Speaker 3: history of kpop idols is much older and more complicated

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Speaker 3: than I had thought. So we were going to take

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Speaker 3: a look at the background of K pop and the

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Speaker 3: world around it before we do anything else. And I

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Speaker 3: think before we start, we need a quick overview of

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Speaker 3: the definitions related to K pop. Keep this in mind

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Speaker 3: as we go through the ins and outs of kpop

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Speaker 3: because we're probably gonna be referencing it or talking about it,

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Speaker 3: and it's international growth and popularity, so.

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Speaker 2: Worse to know.

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Speaker 3: And these are the definitions we're giving you are exactly

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Speaker 3: off of these pages. So we're giving you the reference

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Speaker 3: now from Hello to how you dot com and StyleCaster

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Speaker 3: dot com. So they're direct definitions. So pretend like we

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Speaker 3: put quotes in.

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Speaker 1: All of these.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So starting simply with k pop, which this one

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Speaker 3: came out of the main webster is popular music originating

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Speaker 3: in South Korea and encompassing a variety of styles aka

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Speaker 3: Korean pop music.

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Speaker 1: Paul you the Hungkol or Korean language term for the

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Speaker 1: Korean wave, literally meaning the flow of Korea. This term

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Speaker 1: refers to the increase in worldwide popularity of South Korean

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Speaker 1: media since the end of the twentieth century. Idol a

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Speaker 1: word used for K pop stars. Idols can be soloists

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Speaker 1: or members of a group, but the word is often

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Speaker 1: used to a K pop artist who has debuted and

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Speaker 1: is no longer a trainee and an entertainment agency trainee.

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Speaker 1: Before K pop artists are idols and more on that later,

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Speaker 1: they're trainees. Trainees are students at K pop entertainment companies

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Speaker 1: who have either auditioned or been scouted, who spend several

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Speaker 1: years training in dancing and singing before they debut as

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Speaker 1: a soloist or as part of a group. Along with

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Speaker 1: singing and dancing, many trainee programs also include lessons in

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Speaker 1: languages such as Korean if the trainee is an already

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Speaker 1: fluent English and Japanese.

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Speaker 3: Right so, the word debut is often used in K

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Speaker 3: pop to refer to a trainee who has transitioned to

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Speaker 3: an idol by releasing their first official single, either as

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Speaker 3: a soloist or in a group, or performing in public

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Speaker 3: for the first time. Then there's the Big Three. The

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Speaker 3: Big Three refers to the three big entertainment companies that

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Speaker 3: have launched the most successful acts and believed to have

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Speaker 3: majorly influenced K pop, which are SM Entertainment, which has

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Speaker 3: groups like Girls Generation, Super Junior, Shine, JYP Entertainment which

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Speaker 3: has twice Wonder Girls and miss A and Stray Kids

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Speaker 3: more recently, and then YG Entertainment and side note. You

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Speaker 3: might be wondering why this would be of interest in

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Speaker 3: the K pop industry. These three labels control a lot

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Speaker 3: of the content, the publicity, and even the popularity of

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Speaker 3: individuals and groups, and are almost as famous as some

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Speaker 3: of their groups.

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Speaker 1: Wow m HM. And within the groups which often have

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Speaker 1: several members, BTSs seven like Exo have up to twelve

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Speaker 1: members and one group had twenty one members, there are

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Speaker 1: specific roles and titles given to them and in groups

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Speaker 1: sometimes referred to as idol groups, which is a band

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Speaker 1: of two or more performers that perform, record and essentially

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Speaker 1: live together. Each member takes on a persona and a

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Speaker 1: role within the group. Depending on the size, there can

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Speaker 1: be a leader, main lead and sub vocalist, main lead

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Speaker 1: and sub rappers, main and lead dancers, visuals including the

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Speaker 1: face of the group in the center and the mockne okay.

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Speaker 3: So with that, let's talk about the fan base and

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Speaker 3: the words we hear in regards to fans or anti

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Speaker 3: fans within the group. There's lovers and haters, and there

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Speaker 3: are specific terms for different groups of people in the

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Speaker 3: K pop world, and we'll start with Fangirls are fanboys,

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Speaker 3: which we talked about in our Fangirls episode before, so

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Speaker 3: fangirl or fanboy. These terms can be used as nouns

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Speaker 3: to describe someone who expresses strong passionate feelings passionate about

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Speaker 3: K pop or K drama, especially in regards to their

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Speaker 3: biases and favorite groups. As a verb, a fanboying and

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Speaker 3: fangirling are usually demonstrated through uncontrollable physical and emotional freakouts

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Speaker 3: in reaction to scene, hearing, touching, or smelling a bias

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Speaker 3: or favorite group that is really specific. Anti fans so

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Speaker 3: anti or an anti fan is someone who hates a

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Speaker 3: specific idol or group. Some antis will go out of

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Speaker 3: their way to discredit the idol they hate by creating

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Speaker 3: fake rumors or finding evidence that diminishes an idol's talent,

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Speaker 3: so they put just as much energy as a fan, essentially,

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Speaker 3: but to ruin them. There's also saysungs, which refers to

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Speaker 3: fans who have crossed the line and are closer to stalkers.

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Speaker 3: These are fans who invade idols privacies or make them

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Speaker 3: feel uncomfortable or unsafe in some way.

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Speaker 1: Then there's bias, a fan's absolute favorite actor or idol,

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Speaker 1: whom they will fiercely support and keep track of no

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Speaker 1: matter what content they produce. Fans pick one BYI from

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Speaker 1: their favorite group and usually only have one bias at

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Speaker 1: a time. Bias ruiner or a wrecker an actor or

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Speaker 1: idol who is revealed in a new light or newly

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Speaker 1: enters the scene, altogether making a fan question their devotion

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Speaker 1: to their original bias. So there are some of the

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Speaker 1: in depth definitions you might need to know as we

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Speaker 1: talk about the K pop industry and the people who

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Speaker 1: love or love to hate it and its effect on

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Speaker 1: international audiences and society.

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Speaker 3: So as we look at the history of K pop,

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Speaker 3: but it might be surprising to know that the idea

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Speaker 3: of Korean popular music and idols have been around for

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Speaker 3: a long time. Some of the earliest ideas can be

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Speaker 3: found in the nineteen thirties with the Jagori Sisters who

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Speaker 3: debuted in nineteen thirty nine and the first idols to

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Speaker 3: go abroad and had performances featured on shows like The

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Speaker 3: Ed Sullivan Show not once, but twenty two times. Was

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Speaker 3: the Game's Sisters who laid down the basis of K

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Speaker 3: pop music, and there were several more groups that would

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Speaker 3: come along until the eighties, made up of.

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Speaker 1: Mostly sister groups.

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Speaker 3: Surprisingly so, in the eighties and nineties we had what

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Speaker 3: you would consider the boy or girl groups we see today,

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Speaker 3: with performances that were accompanied by fancy choreography and the

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Speaker 3: nineties incorporating rap into the music.

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Speaker 1: Which brings us to what is known as the first

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Speaker 1: generation of idols and K pop groups. Here's a quote

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Speaker 1: from Lafilm dot Edu about the first generation. Once the

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Speaker 1: K pop stardom recipe was discovered, genre bending music, attractive performers,

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Speaker 1: fall less appearances, and intricate choreography. The first generation of

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Speaker 1: K pop stars ushered in Hot is considered to be

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Speaker 1: the first true kpop idol group because the group was

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Speaker 1: highly manufactured and made up of trained pop stars. They

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Speaker 1: released the song Candy in nineteen ninety seven, and it

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Speaker 1: would become a bubblegum pop hit in Korea and the

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Speaker 1: information according to Wikipedia says the first generation I groups

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Speaker 1: are usually groups of approximately five people, each of whom

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Speaker 1: divided their roles into lead vocal, sub vocal, dancer, and

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Speaker 1: rapper while singing on stage. Their synchronous choreography, known as

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Speaker 1: group dance, was more sophisticated compared to previous dance music,

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Speaker 1: but at the same time included point choreography that teenagers

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Speaker 1: could easily imitate. Musical performances were done only for two

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Speaker 1: or three songs in the album, the title song and

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Speaker 1: follow up song, and these songs were produced with music

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Speaker 1: videos that showed each member's characteristics. After several months of performing,

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Speaker 1: the singers took a break and resumed their career with

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Speaker 1: their next album. This system became the basis for the

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Speaker 1: second and third generation idols. The first generation did have

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Speaker 1: a lot of controversy. The same Wikipedia page rights first

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Speaker 1: generation idols lost popularity in the two thousands. They often

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Speaker 1: lip synced as they performed, with a focus on choreography,

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Speaker 1: and most of the audience recognized that the songs heavily

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Speaker 1: relied on digital techniques to correct the vocals of the

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Speaker 1: idle singers. As a result, many people began to question

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Speaker 1: the authenticity and competency of the singers. In addition, a

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Speaker 1: series of controversies had erupted in contracts with idle members

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Speaker 1: and adjustment of profits, and the idle training system relied

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Speaker 1: on terrestrial broadcasting while the music market was being converted

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Speaker 1: into digital centers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so the second generation is y two K. After

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Speaker 3: the decline of the first generation, the agencies tried some

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Speaker 3: new ways, and many of those new ways were ways

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Speaker 3: to make money quote. The second generation idol groups usually

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Speaker 3: consisted of six or more members, formed a group in

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Speaker 3: a group called a unit, and they ran group and

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Speaker 3: unit activities at the same time. The agencies tried to

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Speaker 3: manage their aisle groups more thoroughly than the first generations.

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Speaker 3: To prevent those problems, they regularly evaluated trainees singing and

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Speaker 3: dancing abilities and ended contracts with trainees if their abilities

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Speaker 3: did not improve or were significantly inferior. They also put

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Speaker 3: on emphasis on personality and dismissed trainers whose behavior was controversial.

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Speaker 1: And though the major entertainment companies had already been established,

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Speaker 1: it was at this point the Big Three were highlighted,

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Speaker 1: and they are still the top moneymakers in the K

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Speaker 1: pop realm. The beginning of hollw could also be attributed

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Speaker 1: to this generation, largely in part due to the beginning

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Speaker 1: of social media outlets like Twitter and Within the second generation,

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Speaker 1: there were two categories. Here's the quote from creatrip dot com.

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Speaker 1: The second generation idols were divided into two categories. They

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Speaker 1: were the record idols and music idols. Items with a

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Speaker 1: large fandom and low mainstream popularity were labeled as record idols.

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Speaker 1: In Idols with a relatively smaller fandom but large mainstream

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Speaker 1: popularity were labeled as music idols. In Korea, male idols

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Speaker 1: were usually record idols and female idols were music idols.

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Speaker 1: Regardless of which category they belonged to, it seemed certain

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Speaker 1: that the second generation idols were loved by most Koreans overall.

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Speaker 3: So then we come to what many of the non

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Speaker 3: K pop diehards may know more about, which is the

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Speaker 3: third generation idols, which does include BTS and Black Pink

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Speaker 3: and for me, Exo, who kicked off the new generation

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Speaker 3: with their hit Growl Again, this is my first true

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Speaker 3: introduction to what I know is K pop now and

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Speaker 3: though there isn't as much distinction between second and third generation.

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Speaker 3: The massive usage of social media at this point helped

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Speaker 3: the international interest in K pop, with groups being featured

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Speaker 3: through content on YouTube and navver v which I think

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Speaker 3: is a Korean thing. Companies pushed a more personal look

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Speaker 3: at the different groups. Here's a quote from that Wikipedia

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Speaker 3: page we would talked about earlier. The Idol group's marketing

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Speaker 3: strategy had become more diverse due to social media, which

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Speaker 3: has led to the emergence of unprocessed, self produced content

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Speaker 3: on sites such as YouTube, Africa TV, and v app

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Speaker 3: rather than through TV programs. Idol members also began to

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Speaker 3: post on social networking services to get closer to their fans.

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Speaker 3: In terms of planning, the quote localization strategy expanded not

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Speaker 3: only through releasing albums in different country or performing in

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Speaker 3: different languages, but by including foreign, non Korean members directly

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Speaker 3: into groups. So also of note, we are seeing more

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Speaker 3: groups writing and producing their own music in this generation.

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Speaker 3: So BTS has been credited with producing and writing their

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Speaker 3: own music for a chunk of it, which has been

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Speaker 3: a criticism from the previous generations of K pop.

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Speaker 1: And to add to all of that, entertainment, companies capitalized

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Speaker 1: on the love of fans. They started selling merchandise, including

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Speaker 1: photo cards, fan events, the usage of competitive reality shows

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Speaker 1: that have you invested before a group is even formed,

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Speaker 1: or if that's what they want you to think anyway.

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Speaker 1: They also understood the importance of the female gaze with

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Speaker 1: groups like Mama Moo and Red Velvet. They have utilized

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Speaker 1: the idea of girl crushes, which they might do through

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Speaker 1: things like attire, like many will wear suits and tuxes.

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Speaker 1: As one girl group said, their idea is quote to

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Speaker 1: be girls seen from a girl's gaze, and as the

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Speaker 1: fourth generation is rolling out, we are seeing more and

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Speaker 1: more fallow suit.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, that was actually something that we don't talk

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Speaker 3: about into this, but I will say a lot of

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Speaker 3: the articles talk about how sexuality really has nothing to

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Speaker 3: do with it. Oftentimes you will see, uh, if you

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Speaker 3: see a gay man or a gay men, they love

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Speaker 3: the women groups as much as cishetero women do. And

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Speaker 3: then a lot of the gay women or lesbians love

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Speaker 3: the male groups as much as cissetero groups do. So

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Speaker 3: it's kind of like it doesn't matter. They just love

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Speaker 3: who they love. It's kind of interesting to see because

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Speaker 3: they do and they don't play the masculine and feminine

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Speaker 3: roles as much. In K pop, you'll see that they're

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Speaker 3: a little more especially when it comes to like male groups.

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Speaker 3: It does seem like they're a little more effeminatee to some.

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Speaker 3: Some like they're very pretty. It's untally how pretty they are,

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Speaker 3: but so are the women.

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Speaker 1: They're very pretty.

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Speaker 3: So that brings us to the newest generation, the fourth generation.

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Speaker 3: Here's what Nocturnal dot com has to say about the

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Speaker 3: newest generation. Any group who made their debut in twenty

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Speaker 3: eighteen or twenty nineteen was considered to be a part

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Speaker 3: of the current fourth generation. The fourth generation shows kpop

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Speaker 3: at an unprecedented skill that we have never seen before.

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Speaker 3: Groups are debuting and immediately gaining millions of followers on

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Speaker 3: music videos and going on showcase tours around the world.

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Speaker 3: And the article continues. Within the influx of new groups

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Speaker 3: and the lack of boy bands and girl bands in

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Speaker 3: the West, since notable acts like One Direction and Fifth Harmony,

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Speaker 3: k pop has been able to take over and found

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Speaker 3: a new sense of popularity throughout the global pandemic. Something

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Speaker 3: that differentiates K pop from the typical teenage pop group

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Speaker 3: is the amount of time and production that goes into it.

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Speaker 3: Some idol groups like Straight Kids in seventeen are also

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Speaker 3: labeled as self producing because they take part in writing, producing, mixing, choreographing,

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Speaker 3: and doing many other things. These all rounder groups are

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Speaker 3: ensuring that they cement a place for themselves globally and

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Speaker 3: need to be recognized for their hard work and legitimate

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Speaker 3: artistry instead of a teenage craze. So they're trying to

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Speaker 3: make it more legits the kids, as the kids would say.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, So it's interesting to note all of that,

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Speaker 3: as well as the fact social media like TikTok has

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Speaker 3: really picked up even more so the popularity of K

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Speaker 3: pop groups because not only do they have dance challenges

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Speaker 3: and like more and more interaction fans are able to

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Speaker 3: produce fan content things like fan cams where they just

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Speaker 3: literally find their their bias as we talked about, and

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Speaker 3: then do a collage essentially a montage for these people.

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Speaker 3: But it really they do a great job. I will say,

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Speaker 3: they do an amazing job. I will also say I

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Speaker 3: believe in the second generation fans were called cannons because

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Speaker 3: they carried around professional cameras to shows. Yeah, and they

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Speaker 3: made like they made an incredible photograps of their favorite fans.

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Speaker 3: It was interesting, like the it is so professional is absurd,

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Speaker 3: but the fans were the ones that doing it, and

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Speaker 3: they were carrying like thousands of dollars cameras to these shows.

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Speaker 1: How times have changed?

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Speaker 3: They all times of change, although I have seen people

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Speaker 3: competing with their phones and talking about how they do

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Speaker 3: better of filming.

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Speaker 1: Quite funny.

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Speaker 3: But here's another quote from NPR about the fourth generation.

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Speaker 3: The last generation of K pop stars are no longer

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Speaker 3: bound by borders. They can debut or train outside of

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Speaker 3: South Korea and become just as or even more successful

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Speaker 3: in the West than they are back home. They also

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Speaker 3: continue to expand upon K pop's constant musical experimentation. And

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Speaker 3: actually that was one of the some of the articles

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Speaker 3: that I've seen that they no longer are catering to

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Speaker 3: Korean fans, that it is all about catering to international fans,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of Korean fans feel like this is

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Speaker 3: leaving them out because more and more K pop people

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Speaker 3: are doing songs in English, songs in Japanese, all of

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Speaker 3: these things. So the question is who is this actually

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Speaker 3: four and is the origin changing?

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Speaker 1: Right? Well, if you're thinking, well, this sounds fun. How

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Speaker 1: do I become an idol? Here's the process according to

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Speaker 1: ninety day Korean dot Com.

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Speaker 3: Which is a great program by the way of learning Korean.

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Speaker 3: Not a sponsor, but I do use them.

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Speaker 1: Not a current sponsor. Not a current sponsor, so you

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Speaker 1: must first audition. Many of the stories we see of

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Speaker 1: K pop idols begin with auditioning for different companies and studios.

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Speaker 1: Are Kpop College, many companies who feed directly to the

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Speaker 1: major entertainment companies, and there are many different schools and

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Speaker 1: studios with hopeful beginners, some auditioning at the age of ten.

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Speaker 1: And you don't even need to be a current resident

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Speaker 1: of Korea or even Korean. Look at Lisa from Blackpink,

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Speaker 1: who is from Thailand. Second, all right, if you've passed

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Speaker 1: the audition, you become a train At this point you

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Speaker 1: are trained with a purpose and intensity. Not only will

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Speaker 1: you learn to sing and dance, you may be taught

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Speaker 1: how to act. You must take different language courses, such

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Speaker 1: as English and Japanese. And it's during this time you

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Speaker 1: are under scrutiny not only for your talents, but for

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Speaker 1: your looks, and are constantly evaluated physically, and based on

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Speaker 1: your talent. Stories of young trainees being weighted twice a

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Speaker 1: day and being heavily restricted with their food intake, and

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Speaker 1: even getting suggested to have plastic surgery if they don't

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Speaker 1: have a specific look. These are stories that we've heard,

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Speaker 1: and refusing can result in being cut. Interestingly, in Korea,

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Speaker 1: mail instructors are not allowed to tell the ladies that

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Speaker 1: they need to lose weight or placed restrictions on them

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Speaker 1: by law, and plastic surgery is seen as just a

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Speaker 1: regular thing. Here's a quote from Vice. One of the

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Speaker 1: most well known methods of transforming teenagers into pop stars

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00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: in Korea is with plastic surgery. In Korea, there's no

437
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 1: stigma attached having your face changed to better your public image.

438
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: The first most important thing is their appearance, says Kim Mansuk,

439
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: a former master trainer with YG who now runs his

440
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: own training center, sand Factory. If a girl has a

441
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: bad face and a good body, the problem can be

442
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: fixed with plastic surgery, he says, matter of factly. Often

443
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: a hopeful star will get a loan from a label

444
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: for fifty percent of the costs of the surgery, but

445
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 1: she'll have to pay it back.

446
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 3: It's also During this time, you are most likely placed

447
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 3: in a specific position in a group and are then

448
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 3: assigned to train and live with this newly formed group,

449
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 3: and strict rules are implemented, including dating bands, which may

450
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 3: follow even after a debut and rise in popularity. According

451
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 3: to that ninety Day Korean article quote, while the South

452
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 3: Korean idol hopefuls are in training, they are expected to

453
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 3: maintain the same polished image once they have debuted. As

454
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 3: a part of the idol group. They should hold at

455
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 3: least basic etiquette and media training, but most importantly stay

456
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 3: out of trouble, namely dating and drinking scandals. Although luckily

457
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 3: for idols, the industry is changing to allow a little

458
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 3: more freedom with dating in some regards, just not right

459
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 3: as they debut. There may also be some pressure to

460
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 3: maintain a certain weight in some companies. There is I

461
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 3: don't know why they said they may because there is

462
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 3: point blank. However, as rigorous as a trainee system may seem,

463
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 3: trainees also get some freedom. It is still totally okay

464
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 3: to have social media accounts and use them as they wish,

465
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 3: of course, while keeping up with a positive image. They

466
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 3: could also work in commercials and music videos, modeling, gigs

467
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 3: and sometimes even act in dramas or movies while in training,

468
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 3: and then.

469
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 1: For a selected few we get to the debut. According

470
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: to Wes, the number is very small quote. Out of

471
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: all the teens who train, it's difficult to say who

472
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: will make it, though it's certain that few will move

473
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 1: on to the big time pop scene. Kim says that

474
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: of his two hundred students, only about fifteen will be

475
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: signed with one of the three major labels, and he

476
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 1: says girls have a better chance than boys. Girls tend

477
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: to want to be k pop stars more and with

478
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: a bigger market for girls. He says, of course, one

479
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: of the reasons that girls may be more likely to

480
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: make it may have something to do with the mandatory

481
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: military service required for all Korean men, who have to

482
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 1: serve for two years between the ages of eighteen to

483
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: thirty five, which was recently changed from eighteen to twenty

484
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,959
Speaker 1: eight due to the success of BTS, and there are

485
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: currently two members of BTS serving the required time. Also,

486
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: there is no real timeline for a trainee to train.

487
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: Some may train for years and some for only a

488
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: few months, and according to k poplife dot Com quote,

489
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 1: once a trainee has been deemed ready, they are then

490
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: given the opportunity to debut as part of a K

491
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: pop group. The debut process involves the creation of a

492
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: new group and the selection of members who will make

493
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,239
Speaker 1: up the group. The selection process is highly competitive, with

494
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: only a handful of trainees being selected to debut. The

495
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: newly formed group then begins the process of preparing for

496
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: their debut, which includes recording their first album and rehearsing

497
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 1: for their first performance.

498
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 3: Right, so, now that we have the fundamentals of kpop,

499
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 3: let's talk about the people who loved them. And the

500
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 3: audience is vast and diverse and has had different race

501
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 3: of growth all over the world. So we're gonna break

502
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 3: it down. The K pop has been around for decades now.

503
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 3: The international popularity is fairly new, probably a couple of decades,

504
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,360
Speaker 3: but you know, still fairly new. It's going to where

505
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 3: you're from, even in the Asian countries, but the popularity

506
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 3: has spread vastly. According to reports, the biggest fan groups

507
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 3: of kpop actually are outside of Korea, with China having

508
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 3: the highest number of fans. But I know, at one

509
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 3: point when there was this whole conversation because uh, there

510
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 3: was the skirmish between China and Korea. The Chinese government

511
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 3: banned capop for a little while, so I don't know

512
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 3: how that affected anything. But according to Billboard dot Com,

513
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 3: as of twenty nineteen, the Korean Foundation has tracked at

514
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 3: least a ninety nine point three million fans across the

515
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 3: globe who are associated with Korean entertainment related fan club

516
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 3: and at least seventy two million are based in Asia.

517
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 2: Now.

518
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 3: According to a more recent report breakdown, the numbers are

519
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 3: like this, eighty four point three million Hallyu fans in China,

520
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 3: sixteen point eight million in Thailand, thirteen point three million

521
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 3: in Vietnam, thirteen point two in Europe. And these numbers

522
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 3: is from twenty twenty, with report showing a thirty seven

523
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 3: percent increase last year, so most likely higher now. So

524
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 3: obviously that ninety nine point three is low. It is

525
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 3: I think I saw around one hundred and fifty million,

526
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 3: if not more, probably way more so. Finding statistics for

527
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 3: North America was a bit difficult, but according to one

528
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: report from Korean dot Net, when it comes to Halou altogether,

529
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two, the US, along with Canada and

530
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 3: Argentina had the highest increase in popularity with a whopping

531
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 3: one hundred two percent increase from fourteen point six million

532
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 3: to twenty eight point nine million fans, and a majority

533
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 3: of the increase is thanks mostly to K pop. According

534
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 3: to another survey done on Reddit, many of the respondents

535
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 3: were from North America and they made up fifty two

536
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 3: percent of the fandom. Again, Reddit may be more of

537
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 3: a US thing, though, I don't know. Yeah, so that

538
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 3: might be why.

539
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: Well, you can see I read It episode for more

540
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: about that, which needs to be updated actually probably, And

541
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: the majority of fans do seem to be women, holding

542
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: it around seventy or more percent, with the average age

543
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: around twenty three to twenty four years old. According to

544
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: the Reddit survey we mentioned, forty percent of the respondents

545
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: were in the age range of twenty five to thirty four,

546
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: and not surprisingly, it is those with more disposable incomes

547
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: that make up a large part of the growing industries.

548
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: Conventions like k Con, which according to their site, is

549
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: quote the world's largest fan celebration of Korean culture and music.

550
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: We launched our flagship Los Angeles event in twenty twelve,

551
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: expanded to New York and twenty five fifteen, and have

552
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: since created events in Japan, Thailand, Mexico, Australia, UAE, Saudi

553
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: Arabia and more welcoming one point for eight million fans

554
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: spanning thirty three events in twelve regions, and it had

555
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: around nine hundred thousand attendees last year and has brought

556
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: more in person experiences and experiences in general for all

557
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: of these fans, with the average age of the attendee

558
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: being in their mid twenties. And it possibly is because

559
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: of the locations that we just listed, but the attendees

560
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: are predominantly not Korean, and though the age range does

561
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: keep it at a more younger adult side, the fans

562
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: over thirty are committed and at the aforementioned convention there

563
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: was even a panel titled the Secret Lives of K

564
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: pop Fans over thirty. Fan groups who often labeled themselves

565
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: as ajumas sort of translated as missus ma'am or anti

566
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: are their own form of anties. One group from the

567
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: Philippines called themselves the Titas of BTS and as bands

568
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: like BTS who are still a favorite around the world age,

569
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: the fans age with them right.

570
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 3: Of course. The origins of K pop is based in

571
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 3: South Korea in the times of no Internet and going analog,

572
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 3: the fans relationship was different. According to one report, at

573
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 3: the start of the generation of k pop idols, fans

574
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 3: even had access to home addresses and locations, and everybody

575
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 3: thought this was normal. It was during this generation that

576
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 3: color representation for each group became a thing like, you know,

577
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 3: I think army bts are purple. So they that began

578
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 3: in the first generation also chanting names of their favorite idols,

579
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 3: and deep seated rivalries between fandoms formed. And during this time,

580
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 3: idols who are not liked were not only bullied, but

581
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 3: sent death threats and sometimes unpleasant gifts like dead mice, razors,

582
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 3: blood and a good deal of that was often sent

583
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 3: to women who may have been rumored to date another

584
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 3: male idol, and not surprisingly, this was most isolated to

585
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 3: the Korean community because it was typically local during the

586
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 3: first generation and those who could be considered say songs

587
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 3: and anti fans have been around for a while as well.

588
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 3: Their presence have put idols and fans on edge. Stories

589
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 3: have come out about the intensity of the love or

590
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 3: hate of both fans and anti fans. Idols have been stalked, threatened,

591
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 3: and even physically harmed different stories like one idol being

592
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 3: poisoned with super glue in his drink, causing him to

593
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 3: be hospitalized while at a show performing, and then there's

594
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 3: a more recent one of a BTS member being sent

595
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 3: food delivered food because they found his address and him

596
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 3: being threatened on social media to the point that other

597
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 3: members docks the person who threatened him. Interestingly enough, and

598
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 3: reasons may vary, such as the dating rumors we talked about,

599
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 3: as well as just being in a group that they

600
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 3: may feel as a rivalry to their favorite groups, Saysungs

601
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 3: who love their idols a bit too much have also

602
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 3: made many of them nervous and even threatened. Incidents of

603
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 3: stalking to the point of causing a car chase slash

604
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 3: car wrecks, to ripping off of clothes to fans sending

605
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 3: messages in menstrual blood have been brought up to point

606
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 3: out the level of toxicity that the fandoms can have.

607
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: Here's a quote from a raptler dot com article talking

608
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: about the ugly side of fantom ash Shells and Katie,

609
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: the host of Spill Thesoji Podcast, have been fans of

610
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: kpop groups since two thousand and six. Throughout there more

611
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: than a decade of following idol groups, they've witnessed several

612
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: instances of celebrities being put into harmful situations because of

613
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: their fans. The list includes calling the idol's personal phone numbers,

614
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: hacking their social media accounts, stalking their idols, group overcrowding

615
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: at airports, and in more extreme instances, can't be outside

616
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: their idols' dorms or houses, installing secret cameras, placing recording

617
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: our tracking devices at hotels or in cars, sending disturbing

618
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: gifts or fan letters. A female fan reportedly sent a

619
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: love note written in mentrual blood to Ok Taysion, a

620
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,240
Speaker 1: member of K pop group two PM, and even attempting

621
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: to kidnap them. SNSD's Kim Tejan was dragged away in

622
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: the middle of a performance by an obsessed fan, although

623
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,280
Speaker 1: it should be noted here that there are more fans

624
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: who often stand to protect their idols. Here's another quote

625
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: from that Rappler article, and it's about how the fans

626
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: will go to that for their faves. Generally, fans would

627
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: strongly voice out their opinions and call out whoever needs

628
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: to be called out across several social media platforms. Ash

629
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: said they would also mass email the company for investigation

630
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: or legal action against the perpetrators. Usually there is a

631
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: unity against unhealthy behavior, but there are instances when the

632
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: opinion is divided because of differences in perspectives. As active

633
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: a community as celebrity fandoms, issues tend to circulate fast,

634
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: with every fan chiming in with their opinion. But when

635
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: it comes to keeping their idols safe, Rees said that

636
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: the majorities still know when to put their foot down.

637
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 3: But it isn't just that the fan bases try to

638
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 3: protect their favorite fans, but they also will do what

639
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 3: is needed to protect society as a whole. Instances of

640
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 3: fandoms like the BTS Army, overtaking racists and sexist hashtags

641
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 3: dominated during heated times, such as the movement for the

642
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 3: Black Lives Matter and shutting down of websites that are

643
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 3: seen as oppressive, or even registering for hundreds of thousands

644
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 3: of tickets to Trump rallies so it would be empty.

645
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 3: So here's a quote from the Washington Post article about

646
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 3: the power of K pop fans in American politics, and

647
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 3: so K pop fans have emerged as empowered, socially conscious

648
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 3: globally minded LGBDQ friendly and attentive to issues of racism

649
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 3: and discrimination. Because in their multi ethnic countries such as

650
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 3: the United States, fans are often ethnic minorities themselves. Social

651
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 3: media has exis eleted existing fan dynamics and made them global.

652
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 3: Twitter has given fans around the world a chance to

653
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 3: observe effective online campaign tactics, all of which can be

654
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 3: applied to causes beyond K pop. Now digital narratives congregate

655
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 3: on Twitter, TikTok, and Twitch, expanding the arena of K

656
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 3: pop fandom. As the Black Lives Matter movement generated massive

657
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 3: attention after the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis police custody.

658
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 3: K pop fans on Twitter, acting on their own but

659
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 3: inspired by the advice groups such as BTS to speak

660
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 3: their own truth, began changing their screen names to reflect

661
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 3: their support of BLM. Shared appeals to donate to Beilfunds

662
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 3: or show up for March's appeared back to back with

663
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 3: links to K pop media and photos evincing thirst's desire

664
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 3: for the attractive young stars. Now that these fans have

665
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,439
Speaker 3: flexed and the world has seen their power, the real

666
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 3: question is what campaign and goals will they choose next.

667
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: But uh, that brings us to the conversation of how

668
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: different fan groups are treated so total transparency, we know

669
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: that racism within K pop culture is very present. Though

670
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: there is a sizable number of fans from the black community,

671
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,240
Speaker 1: the level of treatment for these fans, whether it's from

672
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: the other fan members or even from the idols themselves,

673
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: are not equal. Stories of mistreatment and abused by black

674
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: K pop fans are common. In fact, there are stories

675
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: coming out about black fans being docked within the fandoms.

676
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: A Refinery twenty nine article called when Black K pop

677
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: fans are Terrorized Online? Who Listens describes different instances about

678
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: looking into this about when fans have been harassed, threatened,

679
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: and doxed. They write, K pop has long reference to

680
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: black music, fashion, language, and beauty when done with innovation

681
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: and talent. This quality has won many groups black fans.

682
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 1: But while the majority of K pop musicians and fans

683
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: do it respectfully, some prefer to strip black people from

684
00:37:55,280 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: black culture. This disrespectful appropriation has contributed to an unjust

685
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: sense of ownership. Anyone who disagrees is overly sensitive and

686
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: thus is a fair target for abuse. Among stand communities,

687
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: there is an appropriation to abuse pipeline. According to May Santiago,

688
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 1: a PhD candidate and cultural studies who notes that racist language,

689
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: online harassment, and cyberbowling is all perceived to be an

690
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: extension of how devoted a stand is to the object

691
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: of their fascination. Their chosen media figure is God and

692
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: they're the disciples. If anyone dares question the integrity of

693
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: such iconography, all bets are off. She said. This is

694
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 1: particularly hateful when a critical user is black or brown.

695
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: Under this warped logic, any criticism comes from a malevolent place.

696
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: So even though black fans have been instrumental in helping

697
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: their idols learn and evolve when it comes to cultural appropriation,

698
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: some stands consider these learning moments to be insulting, an

699
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: offense worthy of punishment.

700
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 3: A and that article continues, says in a study conducted

701
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 3: by The Fighting Stripes in twenty twenty, a site founded

702
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 3: in twenty twelve to give Korean Americans a platform to

703
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,720
Speaker 3: talk about what they love, ninety three point six percent

704
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 3: of the participants reported feeling as though black capepop fans

705
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 3: tend to receive more backlash for calling out instances of

706
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 3: cultural appropriation within kpop and were more likely to be

707
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 3: threatened with doxing. That's consistent with the rest of the Internet,

708
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,399
Speaker 3: where black women are disproportionately vulnerable to online harassment, which

709
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 3: we've talked about at length, including with Bridget and it's

710
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 3: not gotten much better. Many black capop fans are seeking

711
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 3: safe spaces for themselves as many continue to deal with

712
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 3: these types of harassment. In another article from Girls United

713
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 3: dot Essence dot com, they write, there is no denying

714
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 3: that non black fandom spaces can be racist at times,

715
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 3: with black fans having called out digital racial violence over

716
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 3: the years. In July twenty twenty one, black fans of

717
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 3: Inhipen were attacked on social media for saying that the

718
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 3: member he sung allegedly mouthed the N word while listening

719
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 3: to Sizza's Love Glory. The majority of the abuse that

720
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 3: took place on Weavers, an app where fans can connect

721
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 3: with their favorite kap pop artists like Engenes, experienced so

722
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 3: much stress and racist abuse that a protective account, the

723
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 3: Black Engine Protection Team, was formed to monitor and report

724
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 3: any anti blackness, and there have been allegations of idols

725
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:24,280
Speaker 3: being racist as well. One idol was accused of purposely

726
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 3: ignoring his black fans, while others have been caught using

727
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 3: derogatory terms as we kind of mentioned above, although some

728
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 3: try to excuse it as ignorance. I do have opinions

729
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 3: about this, but let's be honest here, a chunk of

730
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 3: the idols have been either born or raised outside of

731
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 3: South Korea. If not, their producers, managers and execs should

732
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 3: be able to educate them before they go internationally. I

733
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 3: do have a lot of that. We do know that

734
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 3: there are two specific terms for I and me and

735
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 3: you that sound close to that word as well, So

736
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 3: there's a little bit like backlashes if you if you're

737
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 3: ignorant of those words. So there's a lot to be

738
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 3: said about this controversy. And yes, I do remember the

739
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 3: mouthing the rap not realizing what they are saying, but

740
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 3: again that's just an excuse and that needs to be

741
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 3: corrected point blank. And oftentimes it seems that there is

742
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 3: very little repercussions for racist incidents. In fact, it seems

743
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 3: dating and partying is seen as more of a problem

744
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,720
Speaker 3: by industry standards than being racist.

745
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: And this also leads to the problematic use of black culture.

746
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 1: Just recently, one girl group has been heavily criticized for

747
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: their usage of black hair styles such as box braids

748
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: and almost caricture level outfits that are reminiscent of nineties

749
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: hip hop, even warranting a slapping face emoji from hip

750
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: hop star Anderson Pack, which once again has brought up

751
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 1: the topic of the constant cultural appropriation from key pop

752
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: groups and idols.

753
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 3: So there are many articles seeing the repeated question why

754
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 3: do they continue to use black culture and styles but

755
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 3: continue to not give credit or respect to the black community. Also,

756
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 3: I would ask who was allowing this again and not

757
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 3: vetting these things as twenty twenty three, If you're aware

758
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 3: enough to put Black Lives Matter posts out, but aren't

759
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 3: not aware enough that taking credit or trying to make

760
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 3: money off of culture without understanding it, I mean, what

761
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:23,919
Speaker 3: are you doing?

762
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 1: Accusations from black producers, writers, choreographers and so many others

763
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: of not being compensated or not even being credited has

764
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 1: been rampant in the industry. In a Guardian article, they

765
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: write about a specific incident. SM Entertainment is one of

766
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: South Korea's three largest entertainment companies. It is credited with

767
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: producing the first K pop idol group Hot in nineteen

768
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 1: ninety six, which establishes the SM performance style that the

769
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: brand still employs today, a combination of impressive visuals, dance, rock, rap,

770
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: and hip hop that took inspiration from Black America. An

771
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:04,760
Speaker 1: artist of the MTV generation, songwriter and producer Micah Powell

772
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,720
Speaker 1: attended six SM songwriting camps between twenty fifteen and twenty eighteen.

773
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: At one camp, he wrote a song called Devil and

774
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: created the dance move to go with it, which he

775
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 1: then showed to SM executives. The entire staff lit up,

776
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: Powell says of their reaction. Devil became the lead single

777
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 1: of SM group Super Junior's twenty fifteen album of the

778
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: same name. When Powell watched the music video for Devil

779
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: for the first time, he was shocked to see that

780
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 1: his dance move, a hip tap and high clap combination,

781
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: have been used as part of the song's chorus without

782
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: his permission, without credit or compensation. Powell's background vocals on

783
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: the track had also been used without payment or credit right.

784
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 3: And they did the bare minimum and after a lot

785
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 3: of backlash again, we talked about the top three. This

786
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 3: is one of them, their billion dollar company. So the

787
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 3: constant usage of black community's content has brought division in

788
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 3: K pop fandom, making the black K pop fans feel

789
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 3: more isolated. Stans who excuse artists by using the term

790
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 3: appreciation instead of appropriation allows room for continued ignorance within

791
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 3: the industry. There are fans who have taken action, including

792
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 3: using blackout tactics and calling for boycotts among some groups

793
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,439
Speaker 3: who continuously abuse the appreciation slash appropriation, but has also

794
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 3: led to the harassment of those fans as we mentioned earlier,

795
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 3: and there have been groups who have taken steps to

796
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 3: correct these actions. Groups like BTS, who have been outright

797
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,439
Speaker 3: in their usage of black culture and their music, has

798
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 3: taken steps to undo some of their past mistakes, as

799
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 3: well as groups like p One Harmony who have openly

800
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 3: acknowledged the role of AAVE in their music. In the

801
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,240
Speaker 3: interview in the US, leader Kiho addresses the issue openly,

802
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 3: saying quote, I believe it is a responsibility, and I

803
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 3: also feel like if you're going to have that big

804
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 3: of a platform, you need to be able to respect

805
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 3: and appreciate all cultures without appropriating them. He continues. Whenever

806
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 3: it comes to our or music or whatever, it's always

807
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 3: a sensitive topic. That we always have to think once,

808
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 3: three times, four times about in every step of the

809
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 3: way visually or musically or the language itself said Ko,

810
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 3: while other ONEH members not in agreement. Obviously, there's a

811
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 3: aave and a whole bunch of other cultural stuff that

812
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 3: is very sensitive and so we need to respect that.

813
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 3: And I feel like it's a responsibility too. So I

814
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,760
Speaker 3: feel like it's something that we are always thinking about

815
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:30,359
Speaker 3: and taking action about. And hopefully more groups, more and

816
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 3: more groups will start putting in an effort in learning

817
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 3: the difference of appropriation and appreciation. But again, currently we're

818
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 3: not seeing in it across the board.

819
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, and while we look at the not so good

820
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 1: side of kpop, we have to talk about other controversies

821
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: within the industry, including the many scandals that have affected

822
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: groups and have some people even saying to boycott the

823
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 1: industry altogether. So we've talked about the unrealistic beauty standards

824
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,280
Speaker 1: we often see in South Korea, whether it's weight, skin color,

825
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: are just overall appearance, and for the K pop stars

826
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,959
Speaker 1: it's even worse. Stories of trainees being told to only

827
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 1: eat rice or their diets being so restrictive that other

828
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: members sneak food in for them. It's a big concern.

829
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: Many of the fan sites not only give details like

830
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 1: birth dates and signs, but they will give height and

831
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,720
Speaker 1: weight for many of them. And though everybody is different,

832
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: it is disheartening to see a young woman who may

833
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: be five foot seven weighing ninety five pounds and being

834
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,240
Speaker 1: called chubby are not meeting the standard of the music industry.

835
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: In a research paper about the effects of K pop

836
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: idols on Korean beauty standards, they say this about the

837
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: dieting culture. Another way K beauty standards can be harmful

838
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: is they can lead to extreme dieting, which leads to

839
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: other outcomes like poor health, depression, and eating disorders. Since

840
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: the slim is a part of the standard, idols may

841
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: be forced to a diet that causes them to lose

842
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 1: an unhealthy amount of weight in a short period of time,

843
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,280
Speaker 1: which is usually before a new song or album is released.

844
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 1: In an Insider interview with the K pop group Great Guys,

845
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: member Ho Rung says that they quote don't have much

846
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: time for eating and aren't free to eat what they want.

847
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 3: And with this type of damaging influence, it has made

848
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 3: an impact in Korean culture. Here's a quote from another

849
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 3: article written for the waveclinic dot com. For several years,

850
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 3: media outlets have reported that many young artists have left

851
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 3: behind the kpop world in order to focus on eating

852
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 3: disorder treatment. Jenny of the popular eight member a girl

853
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 3: band Oh My Girl have bravely discussed her year long

854
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 3: treatment for an eating disorder and they continue. The extreme

855
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 3: diet and beauty ideals that have some cultural underpinings are

856
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 3: without a doubt harmful to both the K pop stars

857
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 3: and also to the tween and teen girls who eagerly

858
00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 3: follow them. Restricting and extreme dieting, cosmetic surgery, and an

859
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 3: obsession with the perfect look have been synonymous with the

860
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 3: South Korean music industry. Here are some disturbing statistics from

861
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 3: South Korea. According to the Korea Jungan Daily, the number

862
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 3: of teens suffering from eating disorders in recent years has

863
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 3: shot up significantly. According to the Health Insurance Review and

864
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 3: Assessment Service earlier this month, the number of patients that

865
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 3: have visited a hospital due to anorexia and nervosa increased

866
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 3: by thirty percent over five years, from six hundred and

867
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,320
Speaker 3: sixty one people in twenty seventeen to twenty two hundred

868
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 3: and one people in twenty twenty one. In twenty twenty one,

869
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 3: six hundred and forty eight or seventy five percent were women,

870
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 3: with teenagers taking up the majority with twenty five percent

871
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 3: or four hundred and eighteen For the past five years,

872
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 3: excluding seniors in their seventies and above, female teenagers or

873
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 3: the largest group that were treated for anorexia and their

874
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 3: story starts with a young girl wanting to be like

875
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 3: an idol, so she starts herself to achieve the same look.

876
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 3: And of course, it is important to acknowledge that the

877
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 3: overall beauty standards, not only in South Korea, but in

878
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 3: countries like the US as well, have just as much

879
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 3: influence on the kpops or culture as does K pop

880
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 3: culture does on the overall beauty standards, so it's vice versa.

881
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 3: It affects both of us, both of them and the fans.

882
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 3: When fans are anti, fans feel like they're able to

883
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 3: comment on what they deem as attractive or unattractive and

884
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 3: use this as a way to harass and bully and idol.

885
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 3: They reinforce the almost impossible standard as if it should

886
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 3: be the norm.

887
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: And these types of bullying have been lethal. Different stars

888
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 1: and idols have died by suicide after being relentlessly harassed

889
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 1: and bullied, as well as being depressed and unhappy due

890
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 1: to their careers, and unfortunately, the level of standards that

891
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: often push idols too far is correlated with the unreal expectations.

892
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: In another article specifically talking about mental health and kpop

893
00:49:56,160 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: from mindlessmag dot com, they write Sully from passes away

894
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 1: at age twenty five. She had been suffering from panic

895
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: disorder and social phobia, so it speculated that it was

896
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 1: through suicide, mainly because she was one idol who was

897
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: going against the norm, which led to cyber bullying. She

898
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 1: was one to openly discuss mental health, dating bands, social

899
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: issues and such. To add to that, apparently her attire

900
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 1: was not appropriate and this all built up over the

901
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: years and she could not take it anymore. It is

902
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 1: said that South Korea holds the highest rate in suicide,

903
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: whether attempted or not, and this mainly occurs due to

904
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: the overly high and even unachievable standards the environment that

905
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 1: the Koreans live in. Government figures show that suicide is

906
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 1: amongst the top cause of death for those under forty

907
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,479
Speaker 1: in age range where life demands a lot for those

908
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 1: living there right.

909
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 3: The k pop and Korean celebrity industry have had to

910
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 3: acknowledge the level of need to address the issues that

911
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,919
Speaker 3: have been stigmatized for so long. In the SEMP dot

912
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 3: Com report, they write the Korea Creative Content Agency, which

913
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 3: supports pop culture artists, have reported that the number receiving

914
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 3: counseling rose from one hundred and forty six in twenty

915
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 3: twenty to six hundred and sixty one in twenty twenty two.

916
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 3: That figure relates just to those who admitted to having counseling. Libungchul,

917
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 3: director of medical insurance policy at the Korean Neuropsychiatric Association,

918
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 3: said pop idols were often isolated from support networks. They

919
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 3: are completely lonely. It's impossible for them to go to

920
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 3: communicate and get some consolation. Lee said. It is a

921
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 3: very dangerous situation, and with South Korea having the highest

922
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,240
Speaker 3: statistics when it comes to suicide, the government has realized

923
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 3: that they needed to step in. Here's another quote from

924
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,240
Speaker 3: the same SEMP article, which was written in twenty twenty three. Recently,

925
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 3: South Korea's Ministry of Health and Welfare announced a plan

926
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 3: last month aimed at reducing the suicide rate by thirty

927
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 3: percent by twenty twenty seven. The five year plan includes

928
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 3: more frequent mental health examinations, better counseling services for victims

929
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 3: of crime, and improved care for those who've attended suicide.

930
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 3: There are no details released on how much money will

931
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 3: be allocated. The Korean Suicide Prevention Center, funded and run

932
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 3: by the government, will also provide counseling and treatment support

933
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 3: for vulnerable individuals, and the government will fund medical expenses

934
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 3: starting this year. South Korean Prime Minister Hendokshu said during

935
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 3: a conference on suicide prevention in April. In twenty twenty

936
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 3: one alone, there were about thirteen thousand people who took

937
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 3: their own lives. It's really unfortunate. It is the nation's

938
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,399
Speaker 3: first responsibility to prodict lives, and.

939
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 1: Much like society everywhere, Korea's attitude toward mental health is

940
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: typically not one talked about. Oftentimes, it's treated as if

941
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 1: it is an inconvenience or a fleeting stage. It is

942
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 1: very quickly dismissed and typically ignored until it's too late. However, recently,

943
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 1: more and more idols have opened up and talked about

944
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:51,840
Speaker 1: their own mental health diagnosis and the importance of seeking help.

945
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 1: Groups like BTS and GOT seven have been openly talking

946
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 1: about their own struggles and trying to change the attitude

947
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 1: about mental health in society. A teen Vogue article talking

948
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 1: about K pop influence in mental health conversation rights. In

949
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: Asian communities, there's still a stigma about treating mental health issues.

950
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: Being depressed isn't seen as a real problem, and some

951
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,399
Speaker 1: Asians are very wary of being perceived negatively if they

952
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 1: do seek outside help. But the article goes on K

953
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 1: pop stars efforts to raise mental health awareness and the

954
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: empathy from global fans allows us to recognize that some

955
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: issues such as cyberspace bullying, problematic ideals of masculinity and

956
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: femininity misogyny are cross cultural, extending beyond national boundaries. This

957
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 1: is Juwon Park, a cultural anthropologist. The empathy and encouragement

958
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:43,760
Speaker 1: from fans as a result could be a source of rejuvenation, passion,

959
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: and energy. Music companies have also realized that mental health

960
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,439
Speaker 1: is a global issue that having their idols speak about

961
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 1: mental health is not a minus to the business. The

962
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: transparency could create more engagement from the fan base.

963
00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 3: And there are other controversies outside of the mental health,

964
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 3: including sexual harassment within the industries. Stories from different groups

965
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 3: and trainees of being abused and harassed by their own

966
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 3: CEOs and managers, and idols who've been caught filming and

967
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 3: abusing fans or other members. One big scandal, the Burning

968
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:17,800
Speaker 3: Sun scandal, involving several celebrities and idols, were just recently

969
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,800
Speaker 3: sentenced and caused a wave of backlash for the industry

970
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 3: as a whole. Those involved were accused of rape, drug charges,

971
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 3: illegally filming, and embezzlement. So much fallout occurred, including raids

972
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 3: that would lead to over five hundred arrests, so it

973
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 3: was a huge deal in Controversy over the overworking and

974
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 3: underpayment of idols have been recurring as well. Past incidents

975
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 3: of idols being underpaid or not even paid at all

976
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:47,399
Speaker 3: have many questioning the ethicalness of the industry. Recently, Black

977
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 3: Ping's Jenny was seen performing with an IV after having

978
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:53,320
Speaker 3: to sit out of a couple of performances due to

979
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 3: COVID and at the same time, at the same event,

980
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 3: she had to be rushed off the stage because she

981
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,839
Speaker 3: was not doing well. The group has been touring NonStop

982
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 3: across the world and many wonder at what cost newer

983
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 3: groups like New Gene, who have just started has brought

984
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 3: to light the same conversation about how young is too

985
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 3: young for someone to be an idol, and with acts

986
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:21,280
Speaker 3: like New Gene and past controversy of another young idol,

987
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 3: the Korean government has finally passed a policy in hopes

988
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:28,360
Speaker 3: to address it. From an Insider article, it says, on Thursday,

989
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 3: a bill to protect the underage K pop idols from

990
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 3: exploitation was passed in South Korea. The Culture, Sports and

991
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 3: Tourism Committee of the National Assembly passed the Popular Culture

992
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 3: and Arts Industry Development Act during uplinary session. Per South

993
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 3: Korean outlet Yon Hop. Also known as a lesung E

994
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 3: Crisis Prevention Act, the newly passed law aims to prevent

995
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:53,399
Speaker 3: celebrities from suffering damages resulting from exploitative contracts by reinforcing

996
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 3: financial transparency. The act is named after singer Lee, who

997
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 3: was under a quote slave contract where he was never

998
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 3: paid for his music for over eighteen years of his career.

999
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 3: Per K pop news outlet Korea Boo, the amendment also

1000
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 3: reinforced requirements aimed at protecting the rights and interest of

1001
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 3: underage workers in the Korean entertainment industry by lowering the

1002
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:19,919
Speaker 3: number of working hours again per Jon Hopps, citing the committee.

1003
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 1: And a little more to explain what the amendment is quote.

1004
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:25,800
Speaker 1: Under the new amendment, entertainers under the age of twelve

1005
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 1: are allowed up to twenty five hours a week up

1006
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,320
Speaker 1: to six hours a day. Those aged twelve to fifteen

1007
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: are allowed thirty hours a week, while those above the

1008
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 1: age of fifteen can work thirty five hours a week.

1009
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 1: Both age groups are limited to seven hours a day.

1010
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 1: In addition, the act prohibits any infringement of underage entertainer's

1011
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 1: rights to education by forcing them to be absent from

1012
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:50,359
Speaker 1: or drop out of school per Yon Help. The South

1013
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: Korean amendment also forbids any acts that may threaten the

1014
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,239
Speaker 1: health and safety of minors, which includes imposing an over

1015
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: emphasis on physical appearance upon the children. Assaults, abusive language,

1016
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 1: and sexual harassment are among the other prohibitions listed in

1017
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,760
Speaker 1: the act. Pop culture and arts businesses are now mandated

1018
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 1: to designate a person in charge of youth protection who

1019
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 1: will help to guarantee the human rights of young entertainers

1020
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 1: or Yon Happ quote. This amendment will abolish the industry's

1021
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 1: absurd practices behind the development of k content and provide

1022
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 1: an environment where children and youth of pop culture artists

1023
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: can pursue their dreams while protecting their human rights, said

1024
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 1: Park Bogyin, the country's Minister of Culture, Sports and Tourism

1025
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: per South Korea outlet mail business. But as the article

1026
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: states later, many production companies find ways to bypass these laws,

1027
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 1: so it will be interesting to see how this affects

1028
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 1: touring as well.

1029
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 3: Right, and that does bug the question who was profiting

1030
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 3: off all this hard work. Unsurprisingly, the industry has made

1031
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 3: a lot of money, over five billion dollars to be specific,

1032
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 3: and that's probably underestimated. The big three, YGJYP and SM

1033
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 3: have made a hefty profit, and controversial things like dynamic

1034
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 3: pricing has only increased the amount. These kpop entertainment companies

1035
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 3: take ninety percent of the profit at the top, and

1036
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 3: the K pop artists split the rest of the ten percent.

1037
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 3: So if there's like seven members and you have what

1038
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 3: maybe a million dollars, but then you get one million

1039
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,919
Speaker 3: dollars today, you know, like that's how or one hundred

1040
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 3: thousand dollars and then you split it seven ways not

1041
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 3: a lot to be honest, but some groups like bts

1042
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 3: have better deals, so they were able to get stock

1043
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 3: shares from their label, which was a smaller label at

1044
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 3: the time, but they've now made a lot of money,

1045
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 3: which is now known as hibe or big hit earlier.

1046
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 3: But typically K pop stars are not that lucky, and

1047
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 3: it's estimated that only five percent of the groups actually

1048
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 3: go get beyond just idle status. Anyways, to that superstar era.

1049
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 3: And by the way, for the trainees, they technically don't

1050
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 3: get paid. Instead, they they're room and and all of

1051
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 3: that stuff is covered, so they calculate and say they

1052
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 3: get fifty thousand dollars worth of things I guess education worth.

1053
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 3: But all obausly we heard earlier that they had to

1054
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 3: pay for their own plastic surgery and such. So with

1055
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 3: all that, what does the feature of K pop look like?

1056
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 3: There are many who speculate that K pop may be

1057
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 3: plateauing at this point. Perhaps it's the oversaturation of K

1058
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 3: pop groups or the controversies that have come with the industry,

1059
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 3: or even the loss of bts, which many filth is

1060
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 3: actually the reason. And I know there aren't disbanding. They're

1061
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 3: on hiatus, they're still in contract and they'll be back

1062
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 3: after the military services, and there are a lot of

1063
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 3: individual projects that By the way, if you've not listened

1064
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 3: to August D Yungi, you should because it's really good

1065
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 3: and RM it's really good. He does some things with

1066
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 3: Anderson Pok and Erica Badu. You should go listen to it.

1067
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 3: According to experts, there have been a slowdown in the market,

1068
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 3: and one expert told NPR that BTS may have set

1069
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 3: the bar too high. Here's a quote. The biggest influence

1070
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 3: of BTS is that they increased K pop's dependency on

1071
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 3: the oversea market and made it truly a part of

1072
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 3: the global popular music market, says the Hutah, an associate

1073
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 3: professor of George Mason University, Korea, who has studied the

1074
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 3: globalization of K pop. And they transformed the entire K

1075
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 3: pop industry in their wake. We raised our bar so high,

1076
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:25,439
Speaker 3: says music critic Kim Dehion about expectations for K pop

1077
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 3: artists from both the industry and fans. An increasing number

1078
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 3: of K pop groups are going on billbar charts and

1079
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 3: holding large scale concerts overseas at a faster pace than BTS,

1080
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:39,360
Speaker 3: but their achievements no longer received the kind of nationwide

1081
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 3: attention and celebration that BTS did in a sign that

1082
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 3: success in the global market is now almost anticipated of

1083
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 3: K pop idols. Yeah, but some of the experts say

1084
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 3: this could just be a transition where K pop is

1085
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 3: no longer a new thing, but again an industry that

1086
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 3: will maintain and could never really disappear like they're going

1087
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 3: to be here. So with different groups breaking records and

1088
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 3: being first at many things BTS, Blackpink, Straight Kids and Twice,

1089
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 3: it's doubtful it will go anywhere. But let's hope that

1090
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 3: the transition we see within this industry is more inclusive

1091
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 3: and better equipped to handle the care for not only

1092
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 3: the idols but as fans.

1093
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we'll see, we'll see.

1094
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 3: And now you're an expert, Annie.

1095
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 1: Oh well, I don't know about that. We didn't even

1096
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 1: we cut some stuff out, we did. It is more

1097
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 1: for me to learn. Perhaps we'll revisit. And I would

1098
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 1: love to hear from listeners. I have heard from some

1099
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 1: of you about BTSH in the past. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes,

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01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 1: So please let us know if you have any thoughts

1101
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 1: about this. You can email us at Stuffmedia Mom Stuff

1102
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 1: at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter

1103
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:51,479
Speaker 1: at mosta podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff

1104
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:54,479
Speaker 1: I've Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We also

1105
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 1: have a tea public store and we have a book.

1106
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 1: You can pre order it at stuff you Should Read

1107
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 1: books dot com and on Audible I Hear. Thanks as

1108
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 1: always to your super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya,

1109
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 1: and our contributor Joey.

1110
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 3: Thank you all, yes, and.

1111
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening. Stefan Never Told You is

1112
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts in my heart Radio,

1113
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 1: you can check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1114
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 1: or where you listen to your favorite shows.