1 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff Man. 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: Never told your production of I Heart Radios has stuff works. 3 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: Today's classic is brought to you by our past episode 4 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: on women in game shows. Game shows. Yes, because it 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: got I was started thinking about women hosting things in general, 6 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: and that's when I looked up, UM, the of the 7 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: Oscar host If you're curious, we kind of mentioned this 8 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: in a recent episode. UM. Nineteen of the seventies, seven 9 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: Oscar hosts have been female, and four of those were 10 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: Whoopi Goldberg. Only three women have hosted since nineteen, and 11 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: Whoopi Goldberg was two of those. Forgot yeah, god that 12 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: she hosted that it was a long time ago. Yeah, 13 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: it was. You just see I promised the blowing of 14 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: the mind. Um. And and then also late night host. 15 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: I got to think about that because right now, and 16 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: this is only very recently, we have Samantha b and 17 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: Lily Seeing and that's it right. Yeah, litly sing was 18 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: able to do the double tappa being queer woman of color, 19 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: and so she was one of the first, if not 20 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: the first late night of those titles. I think. So. Yeah, 21 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,479 Speaker 1: so that's significant. Yeah, but we still have a long 22 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: way to go. It blows my mind that we have 23 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 1: two white men named Jimmy and then John. Yeah, very 24 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: very white. UM. And I like, I actually find it 25 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: a very palatable way to get my news is the 26 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: next day. I don't stay up and watch it, but 27 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: I watched the YouTube clips the next day of all 28 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: these things. So I would love to see more women 29 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: get in get in the game. Um. And Samantha By 30 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: actually just um acknowledge this called this out because she 31 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: did a piece on how the United States is one 32 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 1: of a very small number of countries that doesn't provide 33 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: parental leave. Uh. And she was saying, you know, because 34 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: she's the pretty much one of the only women in 35 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: late night, she might be the only person to cover 36 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: this story, and it does impact what gets covered and 37 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: what doesn't even Um, I know female writers in late 38 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: night that has been increasing. We've been seeing a lot 39 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: more of that, which was great. UM, so that that helps, 40 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: but things like that in influencing what's covered. And then 41 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: she implemented a her own parental plan for mental leave 42 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: plan at her her work and called out all other 43 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: late night hosts to do the same because that also 44 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 1: impacts how women are able to to get ahead or 45 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: not in in this industry and in all industries. And 46 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: then we were talking about before we started recording, this 47 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: is a matter of interest right now, it seems because 48 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,679 Speaker 1: their TV movies made about it. Of of note, um 49 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: Late Night on Amazon Prime with Emma Thompson and Mindy 50 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: Kaling and then The Morning Show with Jennifer Anison and 51 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:18,399 Speaker 1: Reese Witherspoon. So I guess we're coming to the point 52 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: where we really recognize that it's a problem, it needs 53 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: to change, and I'm hoping that we're moving in that direction. 54 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: And I will put a disclaimer here. I have not 55 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: seen either of those things, right, but I know they exist. Well, yeah, 56 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: I mean, Jennifer and Elson just won an award for 57 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: the show. So go ahead, go yeah, go ahead, go ahead, 58 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: and we hope that you go ahead and enjoy this 59 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: classic episode about women in late night. Welcome to Stuff 60 00:03:51,920 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: Mob Never told You from How Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, 61 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, 62 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: and today we're talking about late night television, which is 63 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: kind of funny because Caroline and I don't really watch 64 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: late night television, at least not when it comes on 65 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: right yeah, I don't. I definitely don't have cable or 66 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: anything and watch late night TV. Never really have, aside 67 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: from things like Comedy Central shows, UM, and really any 68 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: any late night hosts that I ever see. It's just 69 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: because somebody in the office sent me a funny clip 70 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: from YouTube. Yeah, the I watch late night TV most 71 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: often if I'm traveling and stuck in a hotel. I 72 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: used to think David Letterman was really funny when I 73 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: was younger, but I think that was because it was 74 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: something that meant that if I was watching it, I 75 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: was up late and was watching an adult show. And 76 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: you probably didn't know all of the information that we 77 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: know now about his relationships with his female staffers. Yes 78 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: all like two of them. Yes, I then I wasn't 79 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: an enlightened ten year old feminist at the time. Um. 80 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: And the way that I would watch TV when I 81 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: was a kid is so different from the way I 82 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: would watch TV now, just by virtue of technology. I 83 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: have a TV on the wall in my apartment, but 84 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: it's simply hooked up to a laptop. But this is 85 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: nonetheless relevant to stuff Mom never told you, because there 86 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: has been a lot of conversation surrounding women and late 87 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: night TV in the past couple of years, with all 88 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: of the changeovers happening in terms of Jay Leno and 89 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:40,119 Speaker 1: David Letterman, and the fact that with show after show 90 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: changing hosts, not one time has a woman been selected. 91 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: And the thing that pushed us finally over the edge 92 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: to say, Okay, it's time to podcast about this was 93 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: not too long ago when the announcement was made that 94 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 1: the Late Lay Show with Craig Ferguson, which I always wondered, 95 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: how did Craig Ferguson get that role just from Drew Carey. 96 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: He was just that hilarious and Drew carry That's right, 97 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: he was, and Drew Carey he was the boss. Yeah, 98 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: I totally forgot. I was just like, oh, he's some guy. 99 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: I know his face. I don't know where I know 100 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: his face from. It was Drew Carey. And they announced 101 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: that Craig Ferguson would be stepping down and he would 102 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: be replaced drum roll and his drum roll had been 103 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: going on for months and people thinking well, maybe maybe 104 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: this will be the chance for a woman to get 105 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: a seat behind the desk. No, No, he's being replaced 106 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: by British comedian James Cordon, to which my Twitter feed 107 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: collectively went ah, yeah, And you know what, Like I 108 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: have never I've never really paid attention to late night 109 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: in general, late night TV shows, But I've also never 110 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: found it important enough to even think about in terms 111 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: of the host, because I'm all, it's like, well, whatever, 112 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: They're just gonna put another white guy. Not that I ever, 113 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: like specifically had that concrete thought, but my whole attitude 114 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: about it is just like, well, I mean, whatever, why 115 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: does it matter. They're just going to slide another like, 116 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: middle aged white dude into that slot. But because that 117 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: is my thinking process, it obviously is worth us talking about. Yeah, 118 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: because while it might not seem relevant to our day 119 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: to day who hosts late night TV, it's quite relevant. 120 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: In terms of the comedy pipeline. Women in late night 121 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: are a rarity, and that, if you are a woman 122 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: in the industry, is indicative of this broader gender gap, 123 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: and it's sort of symbolic of how women tend to 124 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: have to work super duper hard if they want to 125 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: make a profession out of being funny. Well, to give 126 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: you an idea of where we were and where we 127 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: are today, we have pulled together a timeline from PBS, 128 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: Washington Post, and Flavor Wire that stretches all the way 129 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: back to September nineteen fifty four when NBC debuts Tonight 130 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: starring Steve Allen and it makes history as the first 131 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: version of the Tonight Show. And I'm not gonna lie. 132 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: When I first read that, my first thought was, huh, 133 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: Tonight starring Steve Correll. Wait, that's not right, but that 134 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: would be a funny show. Uh. Yes. So. Steve Allen, though, 135 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: is largely responsible for developing the late night TV format, 136 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: which is essentially a mix of a talk show and 137 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: a variety program. You tend to have interviews with celebrities 138 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: or notable people who need you to promote new films, albums, books, etcetera, 139 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: along with wacky skits and stunts. I wonder when they started. 140 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: I'm sure someone could tell me this, but I wonder 141 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: when they started introducing like wild animals on of those shows, 142 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 1: because I feel like every talk show or no late 143 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: night host has wild animals on at some point. Wasn't 144 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: it really with what's his name, Jack Hannah who would 145 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: wear his you know, his khakis and his snake and 146 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: would come on with his snake. Maybe to Johnny Carson. 147 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: Maybe I feel like it's probably Carson. It probably is, 148 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: and we will definitely get to him in just a second. 149 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: But in ninety seven Jack part took over Tonight and 150 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: he actually was not super jazzed about the format of 151 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 1: the show. Um. He cried censorship in nineteen sixty after 152 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: he made a joke about a water closet that was 153 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: edited from his opening monologue and he ended up storming 154 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: off and like disappearing for a month. Yeah, it was 155 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: kind of incredible. Yeah, he was like, screw you, guys. 156 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: And his Late Night rain came to an end in 157 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: October nineteen sixty two when Ed McMahon said, here's Johnny. 158 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: That's right. That's not just from the Shining for those 159 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: of you who don't know, that's actually from the Tonight 160 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: Show starring Johnny Carson. Uh. He ended up earning two 161 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: times the ratings that Jack Parr did. Um, and he 162 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 1: was sort of known for being the gatekeeper for comedians 163 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: at the time. He invited people on and it was 164 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: what Rick Newman, the founder of the comedy club catch 165 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: Arizing Star, referred to as the holy grail of what 166 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: a stand up comedian could achieve. It was career changing 167 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: basically from comedian to make it onto uh Johnny Carson's show. Yeah. 168 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: His audience was massive. He had fifteen million viewers a 169 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: night and he was the show. And because it was 170 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: so such an important show at the time, it was 171 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: also instrumental in launching some female comedians careers, such as 172 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,319 Speaker 1: Betty White, who did appear in some skits, but more 173 00:10:55,440 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: significantly Joan Rivers. Yeah. Man, she she guest hosted ninety 174 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: three times in the seventies and eighties, and she eventually 175 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: became the show's permanent guest host from three to until 176 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: they had a big falling out. Yeah. And one thing 177 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: that's incredible about Johnny Carson in the eighties that demonstrates 178 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: just how much of a powerful figure he had become 179 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: in TV. He was able to finagle his contract to 180 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: where he was only hosting I think three shows max 181 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: per week, so he was barely working but making more 182 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: money than ever before. And in addition to Joan Rivers 183 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: and Betty White, there were other female comedians featured on 184 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 1: the show, such as Moms Maybe Philistiller, who've talked about before, 185 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: and Mira Elaine May who we mentioned in Our Women 186 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: in comedy podcast a while back and Tody Fields. So 187 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: there were ladies in the sketches, there were ladies in 188 00:11:55,360 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: the seat, you know, sometimes entertaining Johnny, but but being said, 189 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, Johnny Carson told Rolling Stone that 190 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: he didn't like quote the new breed of female stand up. 191 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: And that's a big deal because, like I just said, 192 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: he was considered the gatekeeper, like the gateway drug to 193 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: being an amazing comedian and a lane comedian. Elaine Boosler 194 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: talked about the Tonight Show with him, and she said, look, 195 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: it was all there was in the nineteen seventies for 196 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: a young comedian. There was simply no other gate into 197 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: actual show business, fame, making a living, or being recognized. 198 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: He thought we were aggressive, funny and aggressive. What a combo. 199 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: Uh Well, moving on to February two, NBC is like, oh, hey, 200 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: we're making so much cache from Johnny Carson, why don't 201 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: we open up a twelve thirty am slot and give 202 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: it to this old guy Letterman. That's when Late Night 203 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: with David Letterman launches, and it's then assumed oombed that 204 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: whenever Carson finally calls it a day, that Letterman would 205 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: take his seat right because he's right after him, and 206 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: they actually had a really good rapport and Letterman was 207 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: Carson's picked to be his successor. It turned out not 208 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: to matter at all. Spoiler alert spoiler I know I'm 209 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: getting ahead of myself. It's so exciting. Um. And then 210 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,959 Speaker 1: in April n seven, we have Joan Rivers again. We 211 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 1: said we'd get back to her. Fox wooed her away 212 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: from Johnny Carson with a fifteen million dollar contract four 213 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: The Late Show Starring Joan Rivers. Carson was so p 214 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: oed that she basically like betrayed him in his eyes, 215 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: did he never talked to her again. And not only 216 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: did he never talk to her again, but he had 217 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 1: so much like comedian muscle in that arena that he 218 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: basically said, look, if you book your person on the 219 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: Joan Rivers Show, you can't come onto the Johnny Carson Show. Yeah. 220 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: So if you are, you know, a publicist for a celebrity, 221 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: obviously you're not going to uh endanger your relationship with 222 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: Johnny Carson. So the show quickly tanks in October folds, 223 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: but not before a guy named our Cineo Hall steps 224 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: in a little bit to guest host for Joan Rivers. 225 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: And then in January, we have a little bit of 226 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: diversity happening in late night when our Cineo Hall gets 227 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: his own show. It lasts for five years, and Bill 228 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: Clinton at one point goes on plays the saxophone and 229 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: everyone's like, what, this is crazy? And that was kind 230 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: of though in more of a modern sense, if you 231 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: can call modern at this point of a viral moment 232 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: in late night, because you know, I I think it's 233 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: it's still such an iconic point. But wasn't that also 234 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: and correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't this also like 235 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: the first time that a politician really went on a 236 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: late night show and let loose. Yeah, And it wasn't 237 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: just like vote for me because I do these things 238 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: with my policy and whatnot, exactly going on and being 239 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: ridiculous and playing the saxophone, and people totally responded to it. 240 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: And so now fast forward to today and Obama, for instance, 241 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: during is elections and also as he's been in office 242 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: and has been pushing initiatives through, has used late night 243 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: television as a way to speak directly to the people 244 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: and show folks that he's just bury, He's just buried. 245 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: You know, he's a good guy, wears a suit wheel 246 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: yes he does. Um so. In the early nineties, though, 247 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: things start to get a little wonky. Uh More, people 248 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: are jumping in the fray. In May, Jay Leno takes 249 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: over for Johnny Carson. Oh my god, I already kind 250 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: of spoiled that because Letterman was Carson's choice. So everybody 251 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: is pretty stunned when Leno took the chair, and then 252 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: from toe, I'd note there was another woman jumping in 253 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: very briefly to the late night show ms Whoopi Goldberg. 254 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: I don't think I did not know this. Yeah, I 255 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: hadn't heard of it either. Granted it did not run 256 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: very long, but but Whoopy did get a show, and 257 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: I figured, you know, this is an episode all about 258 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: women in late night, and there are so few examples. 259 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: I was happy to just find another besides Joan Rivers 260 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: and Chelsea Handler coming up. So Whoopie folds. And around 261 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: that same time, we have politically Incorrect with Bill Maher 262 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: starting up on Comedy Central. As you see what the 263 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: pattern that is happening here is it? More and more 264 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: networks are paying attention and starting to carve out their 265 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: own spaces in late Night, and the same year Bill 266 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: mar gets a show on Comedy Central. CBS is all like, oh, hey, 267 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: we want a piece of this late night pie. Hey, 268 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: David Letterman, are you a little bit steamed about Jay 269 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: Leno getting the job that you should have gotten? Well, hey, 270 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: come on over, we have an eleven thirty spot straight 271 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: up against Leno. Let's make this late night war happen. 272 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: And just a month later, NBC premieres Late Night with 273 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: Conan O'Brien, which is also the same year that Fox 274 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: failed yet again by putting Chevy Chase on the air. Fox, 275 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: What are you doing? Fox? I'll just keep playing The Simpsons. Yeah, 276 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: And then the late night programming starts to extend into 277 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: the late late night, so you have CBS kick off 278 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 1: the Late Late Show with Tom Snyder, old Tom Snyder, 279 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: not of Snyder's pretzels, although when I hear Tom Snyder, 280 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: that's what I think of pretzels, good old saltic gug 281 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: and it makes me thirsty for some water. Okay, Well, 282 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: rolls around and we get another woman. Oh what's happening? 283 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: What's she doing? She is not in the show, but 284 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 1: importantly she's part of creating a show which you might 285 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: know and love. It's called The Daily Show. Yeah. This 286 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: is Liz Winstead, who is a liberal firebrand and a 287 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: comedian whose Twitter is very active if you want to 288 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: follow her. She created The Daily Show with Craig Kilborn 289 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: at the time, who came over oddly enough from Sports 290 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: Center on ESPN. I still remember watching him with my 291 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: brother when I was a kid and being like, he's funny. 292 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: So then we see the evolution of that show and 293 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: the Late Late Show because Craig Kilborn uh then went 294 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: on to the Late Late Show on CBS in nine 295 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: and then when he left in two thousand five, he 296 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: passed that show to Craig Ferguson. We have come full circle. 297 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: We get in the show, No, just kidding, there's so 298 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: much more to talk about, not to mention that John 299 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: Stewart took over The Daily Show in that's right, And 300 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,719 Speaker 1: so once we get into the two thousand's all right, 301 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: let let's move to say two thousand six. What's happening 302 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 1: at this point is that you still have Bill Maher 303 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: doing his thing in HBO. We've got John Stewart rocking it. 304 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: We've got the coldbart Port going on, we have Leno 305 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: and Letterman still duking it out, and recently the premiere 306 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: of Jimmy Kimmel Live, so late night and Late late 307 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: Night completely saturated, totally totally all guys and totally all 308 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: white guys, if I'm not mistaken. But in two thousand 309 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: seven we get Chelsea Handler and she's she starts Chelsea Lately, 310 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: So that makes the third woman to get her own 311 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: talk show. From n four to two thousand seven, all right, yeah, 312 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: percentage wise, we're not doing so well. No, no, But 313 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: then a little bit of diversity kicks off to in 314 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 1: terms of male hosts. In two thousand nine we have 315 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: TBS is ill Fated Lopez Tonight starring George Lopez, and 316 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: then in two thousand twelve Bravos Andy Cohen makes TV 317 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 1: history becoming the first openly gay late night host with 318 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: Watch What Happens Live. And then from there things start 319 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 1: to get really wacky because Leno and Letterman are realizing 320 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: that their networks want them perhaps to leave at some point. Yeah, 321 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 1: so that you have the whole Leno Conan debacle in 322 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: Leno announced his retirement for the second time. Because the 323 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: whole thing, if you were under a rock, was that 324 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: Leno was gonna leave, Conan was going to take over, 325 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: and he did for like a hot second, and then 326 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: when I was like, oh no, wait, in the interim, 327 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: Leno got a really terrible show at the ten o'clock 328 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: slot every night. Conan was sent away. He was really mad. 329 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: Everybody was on team Coco. Now Conan has his own 330 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: show on TBS. Good for him, very funny. Um and 331 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: Leno then exited again. Yeah, to which Jimmy Fallon takes over. 332 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: And as all of this is happening, this is when 333 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: these big conversations up. Okay, well, is a network going 334 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: to tap a woman? We have so many emerging women. 335 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: Not not just like, oh, we've got some really funny 336 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 1: stand up ladies, as we have for forever. No, this 337 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: is when we already have a list comedic women here 338 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: are not necessarily waiting in the wings. But I think 339 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: people we're waiting with bated breath to see if oh, well, 340 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: you know, you could put Tina fe in there. You 341 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: can put I mean polar in there. Yeah you could. 342 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: Oh my god, just a show with the two of them. Yeah, 343 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 1: I would just I would just watch them talk. Would 344 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: you watch that late night show? Yes? Well, but I'd 345 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: watch it the next day. Yeah, the same here. But 346 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,479 Speaker 1: that's that's the whole thing with viewership, which we'll talk 347 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: about a minute too. Like I mean, as far as 348 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: popularity of these shows, so many people are just watching 349 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: it either online or on their DVR the next day 350 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, And obviously that hasn't happened again and 351 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: again and again as these the slate of shows has 352 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: sort of gone through a recent upheaval in terms of 353 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: the host baton being passed to where where we're sitting 354 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: right now. We talked about The Late Late Show with 355 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: Craig Ferguson being handed over to James Cordon. We have 356 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: John Oliver getting his own show last week tonight, which 357 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 1: I personally watch and love. Over on HBO. You have 358 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: Jimmy Kimmel, Jimmy Fallon, seth Myers, John Stewart, Colbert who 359 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: will be taking over for Letterman when he retires, and 360 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: even this guy named Pete Holmes who comes on after 361 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: yet another guy, Conan. So you can understand then why 362 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: when that Late Late Show announcement was made, Even though 363 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: who watches the Late Late, Late Late Show, I don't know, 364 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: it was still a frustrating thing for a lot of people, 365 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: not just women in comedy, but also TV critics. Yeah. 366 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: I mean, if you go back and read any of 367 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: these articles big Kristen and I were looking at, I mean, 368 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: the tone of all of them is just like, hey, 369 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: are we maybe gonna get like a black guy or 370 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: or a woman in there, maybe woman of color? Even 371 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: like there's a Usha Tyler, like she's funny. No, you 372 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: want to go back in time and be like, no, 373 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: it's not gonna happen yet. And it's also not just 374 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: women writing these articles. Yeah, oh no, Yeah, everybody out 375 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: there who their job is to examine television. And this 376 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: is also nothing against the comedy stylings of Stephen Colbert, 377 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: John Stewart, John Oliver, etcetera, etcetera. All of these guys, 378 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: these younger guys too, are super funny. Absolutely, Yeah, they're hilarious. 379 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: It's just a broader question of but why why is 380 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: it so taboo for these networks to even broach the 381 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: idea of a woman host? Because the big argument that 382 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: doesn't fly at all is well, there aren't any suitable replacements. 383 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 1: Would we, I mean knew, would we be possibly put 384 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: in there? Yeah? I can't think of anyone besides maybe 385 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: like Tina Fair or Amy Poehler, maybe like Reetta or 386 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: Chelsea Handler. And you know, I mentioned I you should 387 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: Tyler and you know, I don't know, maybe like Amy Schumer, 388 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,719 Speaker 1: like Tig Nataro, whoever. Yeah, Jane Lynch, Amy Sedera, Sarah 389 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: Silverman U. Tina Fey was actually asked about this, I think, 390 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: on the Seth Meyer Show, and she made a joke 391 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: about how the problem for a woman late night host 392 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: is that obviously you're gonna probably age with the show. Uh, 393 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: and at some point, you know, what do you wear 394 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: because you're gonna want to like be comfortable and you 395 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: want to cover your arms, and so you'll you need 396 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: a blazer. And so she said that it'll be Ellen 397 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: degenerous because Ellen already wears blazers. Because that's another thing 398 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: too that a lot of these articles don't note is 399 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: that when it comes to daytime shows, women all over 400 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: the place, that's funny, making all sorts of jokes and 401 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: doing all kinds of interviews and skits. TV scheduling is 402 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: so gender divided. That's interesting, Yeah, But when it comes 403 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: to the late night not so much. Uh. And NPR 404 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: TV critic Eric Deggen's weighed in on this instaid quote, 405 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: this is a problem. It's comedy led by a narrow 406 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: cultural point of view which tells everyone the way white 407 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: male see the world is what matters most. Yeah, and 408 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: I mean that's you can extrapolate that to a ton 409 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: of other stuff we've talked about, whether it's stem, whether 410 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: it's anything about getting different people's perspectives involved in things 411 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: often leads to better outcomes, and in this case, maybe 412 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: funnier outcomes. Well, maybe the networks aren't so concerned about 413 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: funny but rather money about that because another argument is 414 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: that it's not so much an issue of you know, 415 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: sure would been great to help a woman behind the dusk, 416 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: but think about your target audience. And the New York 417 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: Times is reported on how the late night audience tended 418 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: a note the past tense tended to be sort of 419 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: the Taco Bell demographic. It's it's younger guys, like eighteen 420 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: to thirty four. You're all guys used to be the 421 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: core of that after eleven PM audience, But that's not 422 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: so much the case anymore because that audience has been diverted, 423 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: particularly by programming like Adults Swim and also Comedy Central 424 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: with all of their late night shows as well. And 425 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: another big topic, especially for talking about majority men versus 426 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: minority women, is the writer's room. And we are going 427 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: to talk all about that when we get right back. 428 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: I'm a quick break. So when it comes to late 429 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 1: night TV, obviously the host is the most visible and 430 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 1: the entire show is centered around that host. But all 431 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: of those hilarious jokes and lists and one liners that 432 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: a host is reading off the teleprompter is the product 433 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,239 Speaker 1: of a writer's room. Yeah. Yeah, you get a lot 434 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 1: of funny people together, right, some funny stuff. Just picture 435 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,919 Speaker 1: thirty Rock. Yeah, and LUTs. I don't know why I 436 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: was picture lets when I think of that, but anyway, 437 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: and Lutts now writes, I believe for Jimmy Kimmel, either 438 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: Jimmy Kimmel or Seth Minders. His name is actually Lutts. Yeah, perfect, Um, 439 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: this is all a thirty Rock joke. By the way, 440 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: people don't know, Oh yeah, sorry, but yeah. So the 441 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: whole issue of the gender divide in writer's rooms really 442 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: kind of entered the news and our social consciousness in 443 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,360 Speaker 1: two thousand nine when there was a big scandal with 444 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: Letterman that blew up. So for a long time, people 445 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: who worked on the Letterman Show were aware that David 446 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 1: Letterman tended to have affairs with female staffers and that 447 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: those female staffords would sometimes get more favorable treatment. And 448 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: all of that news became public in two thousand nine, 449 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: and there was this whole scandal. And this was also 450 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: around the time too that Jezebel, when Arin Carmen was 451 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: still writing for them, broke this huge piece about the 452 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: lack of women on staff at the Daily Show and 453 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: some allegations of even the women being who were working 454 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,159 Speaker 1: there being treated in a discriminatory type of way. So 455 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: there was just this whole whole conversation happening, and nel 456 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: Scovell wrote about her experience as a rare female late 457 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: night writer in Vanity Fair timed with the news about 458 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: Letterman because, as she described, she she finally felt like 459 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: it was time to talk about it. Yeah, well, because 460 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: she was like, look, I don't want to sue anybody. 461 00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: I don't want to get anybody in trouble. I don't 462 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: want to cause a big stink or spread gossip. But 463 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: she's like, there are people talking about this thing and 464 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,239 Speaker 1: these issues who don't even know what they're talking about. Well, 465 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: and also that was the time as the news was 466 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: breaking for women and someone of of her clout to 467 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: be able to finally put a spotlight on it and say, yes, 468 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: there is a problem. Now that we're all talking about it, 469 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: now that we're all aware of it, this is what's 470 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: going on right. Um, So at the time that this 471 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: is going on, there were zero female writers on Letterman, 472 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: Leno and Conan, And in twenty seven years Late Night 473 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,959 Speaker 1: and The Late Show had hired only seven female writers 474 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: who had spent a combined seventeen years on staff, and 475 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: like the male staffers, it was something like four hundred years. Yeah, 476 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: because for a lot of at least I'm a little 477 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: more familiar with Letterman. A lot of those writers, the 478 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: male writers worked there for years and years and years 479 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: and years. I mean they kind of grew up with 480 00:29:55,280 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: Dave and so as this was happening, of course, there 481 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: a lot of go to excuses for why most late 482 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: night shows have little, if any female writers, the number 483 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,479 Speaker 1: one being well, women don't submit packets because and then 484 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: that essentially is a packet of jokes that if you 485 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: want to write for Late Night, if they're hiring, then 486 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: you think of all these jokes and all these different 487 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: kinds of jokes that would fit the show, fit the host, 488 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: and you submit what is called a packet. And so 489 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: these late night executives gone the defense and say, well, 490 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: women just aren't applying for the jobs, boo. But but 491 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: that's that's partially true. But it can be challenging to 492 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: apply for a job that you don't know is available, Caroline, right, 493 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: because you know, just a lot of a lot of jobs, 494 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: not just comedy. A lot of times you might hear 495 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: about a job from a friend, but if all of 496 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: those friends are dude friends, they're going to pass the 497 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: word on to other dude friends. And the comedy world 498 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: can be quite insular, and obviously on the whole tends to, 499 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: you know, swing more male. And so if you have 500 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: a writer's room full of guys and their comics, they're 501 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: probably friends with a lot of guys who are comics, 502 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: and that's and so you just end up getting more guys, 503 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: even knowing that positions are coming open, right, And Scoville 504 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: pointed out to that, Okay, well, so there are these 505 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: requirements for when you submit your packet or whatever, but again, 506 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: not everybody is familiar with them outside of this little 507 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: insulated circle of comedians, and so she was just saying, like, hey, guys, 508 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: why don't you just post these requirements online where everyone 509 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: who would potentially want a job and is you know, funny, 510 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: could actually see them and access them. Yeah, but even 511 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: when that happens, it is true that women on the 512 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: whole submit fewer packets, or at least we should say 513 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: that of all of the packets submitted, fewer are from women. 514 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: At a two thousand eleven panel reported on in Split 515 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: Sider that was focused around women in Late Night, the 516 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: co head writer for Jimmy Kimmel, Molly McNerney, said that 517 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: out of around two hundred submissions that she would get 518 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: at a time, only around thirty would be from women. Yeah, 519 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: and speaking of thirty, to give you a few more numbers, 520 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: there was a twelve study by the Center for the 521 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: Study of Women in Television and Film that looked at 522 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: the number of women on staff at these shows, and 523 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: they found that during the season women made up of 524 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: these staffs. In twelve that had jumped to a whole 525 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: big old number oft of the writer's staff. So a 526 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: little bit of progress, but not monumental. And some people 527 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: listening might be thinking, but again, why does this matter? 528 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: I mean, in this case, you're not even the host, 529 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: You're just a writer. But these just writers are writers 530 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: who will go on to be writing sitcoms, might be 531 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: going on to Hollywood to right comedies, might be going 532 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: on to starring comedies. I mean, this is really I mean, 533 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: if you can break into late night, it can open 534 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: up huge opportunities to be one of you know, to 535 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: help shape the you know, broader landscape of comedy and 536 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: pop culture well and and something that a lot of 537 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: women writers who have been interviewed a lot of the 538 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: challenges that they talk about are just the sort of 539 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,959 Speaker 1: overarching dominant male culture that they come up against in 540 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: these rooms. The fact that you do kind of have 541 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: to shout to be heard, You do have to be 542 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: more aggressive. As Elaine Boosler put it back in the day, Um, 543 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: there's the whole thing about having jokes poached. And you 544 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: know that I feel like this is a thing that 545 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: women talk about in business and wherever, and many feels about, 546 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: Oh I have this great idea, I'm going to say 547 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: it and nobody is gonna respond or or like it, 548 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: or show that they even heard me, and then ten 549 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: minutes later somebody's like, oh, hey, what if we did 550 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: such and such a It's an idea, and it's the 551 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: same idea. It's just it was finally heard from a 552 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: different mouth. Um. Well, And and another challenge too of 553 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: being a woman writing for late night is that you're 554 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: writing jokes specifically for hosts, and almost ten out of 555 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: ten times at this point you're gonna be writing jokes 556 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: specifically for male hosts. And not to say that women 557 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,359 Speaker 1: cannot write jokes for men, because there are women doing that, 558 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: but there are points of reference that some women late 559 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: night writers will talk about where their experience that they 560 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 1: can draw on personally is just not as male centric obviously. Yeah. 561 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: And then well then you have the issue too of 562 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: like the fact that you have to if you are 563 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,439 Speaker 1: writing for a male host and you need to write 564 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: things for his perspective, you kind of have to sacrifice 565 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: your perspective or your female voice or any like sex 566 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 1: in the city jokes you have tucked up in your 567 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 1: brain or whatever. And so in that regard, you know, 568 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 1: some women might just opt to you right for other shows, sitcoms, 569 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: et cetera. Although based on what Nell Scobell was writing 570 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: about in that Vanity Fair piece, once you're finally getting 571 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: down to writing and comedy, it's almost as though she 572 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,240 Speaker 1: she feels like gender should just fly out the window 573 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: because there's this thing um where one one thing she 574 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: noticed in writer's rooms, like this hesitation of women even 575 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 1: being in the room. Is this idea that well, then 576 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to tone it down. Then you can't 577 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 1: make inappropriate jokes that frankly, Caroline and I can't make 578 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: right now on the podcast to give you examples to 579 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: which Scobell says, No, you don't have to be less 580 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: body if a woman is in the room, you can 581 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,240 Speaker 1: be equally funny. You know, we can all be equally 582 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 1: gross and funny if we want to be. Yeah, she 583 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: was saying, we're your co worker and we're your comedy 584 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: writing coworker. At that we're not your wife, we're not 585 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: your mother, we're not your daughter. We're on a level 586 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: playing field, Like, don't feel like you can't cut loose 587 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 1: just because of vaginas in the room. So, speaking of Scobel, 588 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 1: who also in addition to Liz Winstead, has a very 589 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: active and funny Twitter account. If you want to follow her. Uh. 590 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: She put her words into action when it came to 591 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: the recent launch of John Oliver's late night show last 592 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: week tonight over at hbo UM. John Oliver actually talked 593 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,720 Speaker 1: about in an interview how when they were looking for writers, 594 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: and Scobell specifically did something a little unconventional. She sought 595 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: out people online and magazines anywhere she thought funny women 596 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,879 Speaker 1: would be writing and reached out to them directly. Yeah, 597 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: basically reached out to them directly and said, come come 598 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 1: working late night, add your voices to the cacophony. You 599 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,359 Speaker 1: are needed. Yeah, and I don't. I think they have 600 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: two writers, two female writers, which that's not massive, but 601 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,479 Speaker 1: it's still a presence. And I want to say that 602 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 1: there showrunner is also a woman. And I have it 603 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:12,240 Speaker 1: on good authority that John Oliver is a fantastic boss 604 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: to work for as a lady comedian. And same thing 605 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: too with John Stewart, which made me very happy. That 606 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: makes me happy to Yeah, I'm glad to know that 607 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: my random, based on nothing assumptions about them are are accurate. Yeah. 608 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: When it comes though to a more historic writer's room 609 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: in late night seth Myers has an astonishing three women 610 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: writing for him, including Amber Ruffin, who is the first 611 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: black female writer in late night history. That's great. I mean, 612 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: didn't he do like a blind submission thing where he 613 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 1: was just like, give me the jokes and all. He 614 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: ended up getting a diverse writing group because of that. 615 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: It might have been him. I know that John Oliver 616 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 1: also did a blind submission, and I think for the 617 00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: first round with packets, it is become being far more common, 618 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 1: if not the thing to do where you have blind 619 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: readings of the jokes so that you don't go see 620 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: a name like, oh, these jokes are from a girl 621 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 1: named Kristen, throw them away. They're going to be about 622 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: tampons um. But speaking of jokes, So, like everything that 623 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: Chris and I have been talking about right now, seems 624 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: like things are on the up swing. It seems like 625 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 1: the younger hosts who have the younger demographics watching them, 626 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 1: maybe it's more hopeful. Maybe maybe more women will will 627 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: stop up to bat and that includes not only behind 628 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 1: the scenes in the writer's room, but also in terms 629 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: of actual comedians, stand up comedians who get invited on 630 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 1: to perform. It's actually still pretty grim. Yeah, there aren't 631 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,719 Speaker 1: that many women who go on late night shows to 632 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: do stand up, whether that's stand up actually on the 633 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: show that you would see on TV, or doing stand 634 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,760 Speaker 1: up to warm up the audience. In two thousand twelve, 635 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 1: for instance, Uh, there were forty nine stand up performances 636 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 1: on The Late Late Show, The Tonight Show, Jimmy Kimmel, Live, Conan, 637 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,360 Speaker 1: and The Late Show. And of those forty nine performances, 638 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: there were thirty eight white men, nine men of color, 639 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: and two women. Go gals. Yeah, but then last year 640 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: in a partner Nanturla became the first Indian woman to 641 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: perform stand up on US late night TV on Conan 642 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 1: and Kristen and I can say that we knew her 643 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: when well, we saw our performance stand up at a 644 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: conference we went to. Yeah we laughed at her jokes. 645 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: Yeah we didn't. We don't. Like we're not friends, but 646 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 1: we could be. She wants to be, and she's super funny. 647 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: Yet again, follow her Twitter to follow all these people's twitters. 648 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: But the question again is does it really matter because 649 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 1: we're talking about younger hosts. It is a new generation 650 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: of late night we have. You know, it seems like 651 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 1: there's a sea change going on. But you and I 652 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,439 Speaker 1: don't watch late night when it comes on late night. 653 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people watching might consume late 654 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: night television most often in the form of viral videos. Yeah. 655 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,880 Speaker 1: That's one big way that Kimmel in particular and Fallon 656 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: have really found their niche is by producing these segments 657 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: that go bananas on Twitter and YouTube. Yeah, They're like 658 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: skits and things like that with guests that are easily 659 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,879 Speaker 1: break down able and digestible. Like I had a friend 660 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: grabby and be like, you have to watch this, it's 661 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: so funny on Fallon And I mean it was funny, um, 662 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean I want to sit down and 663 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: watch the entire show. I'm just gonna watch this video 664 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,719 Speaker 1: you sent me, exactly. And viewership has been declining for 665 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 1: late night steadily for years now. This was reported on 666 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 1: in Vanity Fair and they noted that, as we mentioned 667 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,360 Speaker 1: earlier in the show, when Carson was on, he was 668 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 1: attracting fifteen million viewers a night, and then Leno in 669 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 1: the same time slot was only six million viewers, And 670 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: now Fallon has about one point eight million viewers a night, 671 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:12,279 Speaker 1: which is significant because Jimmy Fallon on Twitter has eleven 672 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: million followers. Yeah, I mean you also have to think 673 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 1: too that, like, well, what else do people have to 674 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,320 Speaker 1: watch when Johnny Carson was on, Yeah, that's true, exactly 675 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,799 Speaker 1: did not have the YouTube's they did not well. So, 676 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: I mean the whole argument behind this, though, is that 677 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:32,800 Speaker 1: these declining ratings don't necessarily matter as much because everybody's 678 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: watching everything on the internet. Like Conan. Somebody was talking 679 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: to Conan about how his ratings once he went to TBS, 680 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 1: We're basically cut in half after two weeks, and he's like, 681 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: I'm fine, I'm happy here, Like things are going great. 682 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 1: Everybody's watching me on their DVR the next day. I'm 683 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,320 Speaker 1: fine with it. Yeah, And I mean even the basic 684 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:55,960 Speaker 1: business model of late night television is downsizing and digitizing, 685 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,799 Speaker 1: because this used to be a one million dollar per 686 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:03,879 Speaker 1: we operation for a top tier show, but that kind 687 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: of money is crazy to spend these days. I mean, 688 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 1: obviously there's still a lot of cash it goes into 689 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: production for the big shows, but a lot of this 690 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:19,560 Speaker 1: is still scaling down because the audiences are scaling down 691 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:25,080 Speaker 1: and also getting older. They're getting older that Taco Bell demographic. Yeah, 692 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:29,959 Speaker 1: they're not watching They're they're probably not watching late night television. Yeah, 693 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 1: Conan reels in the youngest median audience at thirty two, 694 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 1: whereas Letterman and Leno's median viewers were aged fifty six. Yeah, 695 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,720 Speaker 1: and I wonder if that has gone down at all 696 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: with say, Jimmy Fallon taking on over for Leno, and 697 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 1: maybe if it will go down if you know, Colbert 698 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,120 Speaker 1: brings his younger audience over when he moves to Letterman. 699 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: But fifties six, yawsa, that's that's that's that's older, that 700 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:04,239 Speaker 1: is older age. But Amanda Hess is like, I don't care. 701 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,240 Speaker 1: I don't care. Let them have it, let them eat cake, 702 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,759 Speaker 1: Let them eat white old cake if they want to. 703 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,959 Speaker 1: She said that late night talk shows are celebrity self 704 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:18,040 Speaker 1: promotion vehicles, packaged with broad, sanitized humor that is highly 705 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: topical but rarely actually relevant. She basically talks about how 706 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,399 Speaker 1: the humor is so broad that it's like, okay, kind 707 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,880 Speaker 1: of funny, but it's really like not striking anyone's funny 708 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,600 Speaker 1: bone to any sort of extreme yeah, because they have 709 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: to keep it super sanitized. And she was writing about 710 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,960 Speaker 1: this over at Slate and went on to talk about 711 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,719 Speaker 1: how if you want, you know, women in comedy, don't 712 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 1: put them behind the desk on late night and cramp 713 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,359 Speaker 1: their style. Instead, we have things like Inside Amy Shumor, 714 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,919 Speaker 1: Parks and Wreck and broad City that are making ladies laugh, 715 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,359 Speaker 1: Ladies making ladies laugh. Now, Parks and Wreck is still 716 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,919 Speaker 1: pretty ame because it's on Network, But for Inside, Ami 717 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,880 Speaker 1: Schumer on Comedy Central and broad City on FX, I 718 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,919 Speaker 1: mean they get downright body, Yeah, I mean Amanda has 719 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 1: has a point like who cares let them have it? 720 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,880 Speaker 1: It's stupid, it's a dying medium or whatever. But you know, 721 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:15,839 Speaker 1: a lot of it goes back to what we talked 722 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,920 Speaker 1: about all the way back with Carson that you know 723 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:22,400 Speaker 1: a lot of these late night hosts are gatekeepers for 724 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:28,280 Speaker 1: not what's funny, but the funny that people recognize. So 725 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,239 Speaker 1: the fact that so many of these comedians who come 726 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 1: on board, or the writers who are in the writer's room, 727 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,400 Speaker 1: the fact that so many of them are still mail, 728 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,759 Speaker 1: means that there are a lot of funny perspectives out 729 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,359 Speaker 1: there that just aren't getting hurt. Well. I wonder if 730 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,880 Speaker 1: there are any comedians listening. I would be curious from 731 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:50,279 Speaker 1: an insider perspective, whether it would be even more important though, 732 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 1: to focus on diversifying those writer's rooms, because again, when 733 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,279 Speaker 1: it comes to what those hosts are even going to 734 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,520 Speaker 1: be spouting out to begin with, that is the product. 735 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: So I mean, obviously their delivery and some of their 736 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,360 Speaker 1: you know, their comedic instincts as well, but by and 737 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,680 Speaker 1: large their jokes written by their writers. So if you 738 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: diversify the writers, then you diversify what's on screen. And 739 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,200 Speaker 1: I think they were. I mean, I I do think 740 00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,720 Speaker 1: that the comedy we're seeing coming out of the shows 741 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,479 Speaker 1: hosted by you know, Kimmel, Fallon, Myers, etcetera, these younger 742 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,840 Speaker 1: guys is fresher than what you would see on Leno 743 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,360 Speaker 1: of the past and Letterman soon to be of the past. 744 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:40,080 Speaker 1: But there's still progress to be made. So I want 745 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:44,120 Speaker 1: predictions from folks of who will be the first female 746 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,600 Speaker 1: late night host because at some point, if only, if 747 00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,160 Speaker 1: only to get the ratings boost that would happen, at 748 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:54,320 Speaker 1: least for the beginning, a network is going to do it. 749 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,439 Speaker 1: It will happen, But who's it going to be? Who 750 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,040 Speaker 1: wants it? I wonder if these like, you know, I 751 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,359 Speaker 1: wonder if Tina Fey really wants it. I doubt she does. 752 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,160 Speaker 1: She can do anything she wants. I don't know. Maybe 753 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,479 Speaker 1: Ellen does. If Ellen already has the daytime talk show, 754 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,800 Speaker 1: but she's got I mean, but she has the daytime 755 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,879 Speaker 1: show on lock she does have a huge audience. Yeah, 756 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,520 Speaker 1: why would she leap over? I don't know. Now I'm 757 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 1: trying to get into the head of Ellen, which means 758 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 1: it's time for us to wrap up the show. So 759 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,680 Speaker 1: and and yes, if there are any comedy writers or 760 00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:27,719 Speaker 1: comedians listening, definitely want to hear from you, any late 761 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,640 Speaker 1: night fans. Let us know your thoughts. Mom Stuff at 762 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,759 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com is where you can send 763 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,960 Speaker 1: us your letters. You can also tweet us at Mom's 764 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,719 Speaker 1: Stuff podcast or send us a message on Facebook. And 765 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,040 Speaker 1: we've got a couple of messages to share with you 766 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:49,720 Speaker 1: right now. Okay, Well, Kristen and I received a couple 767 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,680 Speaker 1: of letters that we're going to share about our fraternity's episode, 768 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,839 Speaker 1: and I have one here from a woman who would 769 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,960 Speaker 1: like to remain anonymous. She says, thanks for the recent 770 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 1: story about fraternity's I was not involved in a Greek system, 771 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,360 Speaker 1: but I'm now friends with guys who were in a 772 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,600 Speaker 1: fraternity together. These men are not animal house stereotypes. They 773 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:10,280 Speaker 1: are business owners and successful professionals. They are loving husbands 774 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,120 Speaker 1: and fathers. They have vegetable gardens and volunteer in their 775 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,600 Speaker 1: spare time. They are kind and generous men, and they 776 00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:21,040 Speaker 1: all have serious problems with alcohol. Drinking heavily was central 777 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,279 Speaker 1: to how they form their friendships, and it continues to 778 00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,880 Speaker 1: be key to how they relate to each other. Abstaining 779 00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,200 Speaker 1: from drinking when they're together is like joining a game 780 00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:31,640 Speaker 1: of basketball and then sitting in the bleachers. Everyone stares 781 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,000 Speaker 1: and wants to know what's wrong. When one of the 782 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,799 Speaker 1: group tries to go sober or at least significantly cut back, 783 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,080 Speaker 1: the others pulling back in telling him You're so much 784 00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,520 Speaker 1: more fun when you drink, or I'm so glad you're 785 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,919 Speaker 1: drinking again. These men do sincerely care about each other. 786 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,280 Speaker 1: For them, quitting drinking doesn't just mean giving up alcohol. 787 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,319 Speaker 1: It means distancing themselves from guys who have been their 788 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,600 Speaker 1: best friends for almost fifteen years. I can't imagine what 789 00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,080 Speaker 1: it would take to change the drinking culture within college fraternities, 790 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,840 Speaker 1: but I wish the national organizations would do something to 791 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,279 Speaker 1: help the thousands of guys who carry that culture with 792 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,600 Speaker 1: them after they graduate. So I've got a letter here 793 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,200 Speaker 1: from a guy also about our fraternity podcast, you would 794 00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:13,399 Speaker 1: also like to remain anonymous. And he has lots of 795 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:18,520 Speaker 1: experience in fraternities because he has in fact served as 796 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:24,200 Speaker 1: president of his fraternity at a large school. So he 797 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,279 Speaker 1: he went through a lot of the different topics that 798 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,000 Speaker 1: we touched on, and I can't read the entire letter, 799 00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,680 Speaker 1: but I do want to call out a few things 800 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:36,040 Speaker 1: that he uh talked about. So he said, drinking, Yes, 801 00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,040 Speaker 1: we drink a lot, some more than others. There is 802 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,520 Speaker 1: a saying that the only reason sororities don't care that 803 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:43,680 Speaker 1: they are dry is because they can come and drink 804 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,960 Speaker 1: for free at our houses. When it comes to hazing, 805 00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,759 Speaker 1: we don't haze. But then again everyone says that. I 806 00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,600 Speaker 1: will say that physical hazing has been replaced with psychological hazing, 807 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,840 Speaker 1: typically with events that are designed to mentally stress the 808 00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,600 Speaker 1: new members in hopes that they shared dure us helps 809 00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,759 Speaker 1: the new members bond as pledge class. On the occasion 810 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,920 Speaker 1: that there is an incident a k a. Someone screws up, 811 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,800 Speaker 1: gets hurt, or someone gets caught hazing, charges are dropped 812 00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:15,360 Speaker 1: and honestly they should just be labeled assault and battery. 813 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,800 Speaker 1: And then when it comes to sexual assault, he says, 814 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,880 Speaker 1: we hate it as much as anyone and personally, nothing 815 00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,080 Speaker 1: makes my blood boil more. We especially hate the people 816 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,480 Speaker 1: who take advantage of intoxicated women. To say it doesn't 817 00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,080 Speaker 1: happen is naive, but it's something that we as a 818 00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,440 Speaker 1: community you need to work on, and not just the 819 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:38,319 Speaker 1: Greek community either. Just a final note, typically, yes, there 820 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,600 Speaker 1: is one bad egg. Every house has that one insert 821 00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:45,920 Speaker 1: your favorite expletive who screws everything up for everyone. Everyone 822 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:47,799 Speaker 1: I know says that joining a fraternity is the best 823 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,279 Speaker 1: decision they made in college. The only complaint I have 824 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,880 Speaker 1: is this habit of the media has to only report 825 00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,920 Speaker 1: on the problems with fraternity life and to answer your questions. 826 00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,239 Speaker 1: The main reasons guys typically don't stop other guys from 827 00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,160 Speaker 1: being quote bad apples is because they are your brother. 828 00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,520 Speaker 1: There is always a hierarchy within the fraternity, and typically 829 00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:08,520 Speaker 1: when you've been involved in the fraternity for a lesser 830 00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,279 Speaker 1: period of time, you feel less powerful. Something all new 831 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,680 Speaker 1: members fail to recognize is that as the people with 832 00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,880 Speaker 1: the longest time left in the fraternity, you have the 833 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,640 Speaker 1: most power to change the house for the better. My 834 00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,280 Speaker 1: house actually kicked out all of our quote bad apples, 835 00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,359 Speaker 1: A few years ago, and while money has been tightened 836 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,800 Speaker 1: the meantime, we have never been happier as a house. 837 00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,560 Speaker 1: Members need to seize an active role in their fraternity 838 00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,160 Speaker 1: and decide to make it where they want it to be. 839 00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,879 Speaker 1: Fraternity life shouldn't be a lifestyle you join. It should 840 00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,960 Speaker 1: be a lifestyle you create for yourself and for your brothers. Yes, 841 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:38,839 Speaker 1: you do join a house for the values they hold 842 00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:42,160 Speaker 1: and ideally your health to those values, and that is hard, 843 00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:44,759 Speaker 1: but the hard choices are the ones that typically need 844 00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,360 Speaker 1: to be made. If fraternity has focused more on recruiting 845 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,680 Speaker 1: the best men they can, all of this would be avoided. Realistically, 846 00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:52,880 Speaker 1: there will always be that one fraternity that has all 847 00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,399 Speaker 1: the bad apples no one else wanted. Avoid them, don't 848 00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,520 Speaker 1: go to their parties, don't go to their events, don't 849 00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:02,840 Speaker 1: encourage your behavior, and they will hopefully go away. Forgive 850 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:04,720 Speaker 1: me if I was a little ranty, but for dirty 851 00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:06,719 Speaker 1: life is something I highly value and hope that it 852 00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,480 Speaker 1: will continue well into the future. And that's not ranty 853 00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,400 Speaker 1: at all. As I actually wrote back to this fellow 854 00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:16,680 Speaker 1: of thanking him for his insight because that's exactly what 855 00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,320 Speaker 1: we asked for. So thank you to him and everybody 856 00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,120 Speaker 1: else who has written into us. Mom. Stuff at how 857 00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:24,560 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com is our email address and for 858 00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,919 Speaker 1: links to all of our social media's as well as 859 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:31,680 Speaker 1: all of our podcast blogs and videos, which if you 860 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,319 Speaker 1: look in our videos and go to how to Talk 861 00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:40,360 Speaker 1: to Boys, it has featured a woman who has written 862 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:44,680 Speaker 1: for Jimmy Salm, So if you want to see a 863 00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,840 Speaker 1: lady late night writer in action, head on over to 864 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:55,520 Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never Told You dot com for more on 865 00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,000 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff 866 00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:06,480 Speaker 1: works dot com