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Speaker 1: Y'all, welcome to the Crime Round Up. I'm Cheryl McCollum

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Speaker 1: and I'm joined as always by the Queen herself, Nancy Grace. Hey, honey,

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Speaker 1: let me tell you something. I was listening to you

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Speaker 1: on Merritt Street and there is a missing mom, MAMDA

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Speaker 1: and her friend was talking to you and she said, yes,

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Speaker 1: her husband, he's just tone death. And you said, and

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Speaker 1: I quote, I think you're kind and gracious. I'm not so, honey.

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Speaker 1: Let's get to talking about this poor missing mom.

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Speaker 2: You know, Cheryl, I just I worry because I've covered

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Speaker 2: so many cases of missing people and unsolved homicides, and

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Speaker 2: I don't want mom to or any other person to

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Speaker 2: get lost in the sea of crime victims. And it's hard,

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Speaker 2: it's hard to keep going, and sometimes it's hard to hear.

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Speaker 2: And I would tell yourrs that because sometimes there'd be evidence, Cheryl,

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Speaker 2: as you will know that, they would like wins physically

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Speaker 2: WinCE or recoil or look away from a picture. And

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Speaker 2: it's the same thing here. It's almost like an what

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Speaker 2: never ending wave. It comes and it comes, and it

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Speaker 2: comes like the ocean, and once one goes away, there's

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Speaker 2: another wave right behind it. I don't want mom to

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Speaker 2: bot to be lost in all of that. Mam Toa

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Speaker 2: is and I'm saying is because I want to believe

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Speaker 2: she's still alive. The evidence tells me otherwise. Mom to

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Speaker 2: Bought is a gorgeous twenty eight year old Virginia mother

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Speaker 2: near Manassas and she's the pediatric nurse, very devoted. The

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Speaker 2: rest of her family lives in Nepall. So there's nobody

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Speaker 2: and that's important. I'm sure you're gonna jump in a

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Speaker 2: minute explain why that's important. There's no support for her.

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Speaker 2: And I have a friend, Brian Fitzgibbons, who runs the

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Speaker 2: National Security Service National something Security Service. He got into

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Speaker 2: her Facebook and was looking at it and she, oh, oh,

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Speaker 2: this makes me angry and upset. All at the same time,

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Speaker 2: she has no support here, and she was on this

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Speaker 2: anonymous Facebook chat talking about I don't have family here

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Speaker 2: in town. My husband tells me if I try to leave,

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Speaker 2: he's going to take the baby and I will never

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Speaker 2: see the baby again. I don't have a lawyer, I

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Speaker 2: don't know anything about custody. Now hold on, wait for it.

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Speaker 2: Then she has this baby shower. Not long after that,

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Speaker 2: the baby hadn't even turned one yet. Mamta does not

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Speaker 2: show up at her job as a pediatric nurse. Her

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Speaker 2: friends that threw her the baby shower. The baby shower

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Speaker 2: friends get together, they start searching for mom to not

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Speaker 2: the husband. Police go at their urging, does a welfare check,

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Speaker 2: and the husband explains it all the way. Oh, she

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Speaker 2: does this all the time, the same all blah blah blah,

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Speaker 2: she's having some me time. B s Cheryl. She gave

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Speaker 2: up working full time to be with the baby. She

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Speaker 2: worked a few days a week as the pediatric nurse.

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Speaker 2: She would never have left baby niema. So a husband's

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Speaker 2: full of crap and the police, you know, bought it

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Speaker 2: and left out. That's what we've been told. Police may

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Speaker 2: have a very different story once they speak. So I

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Speaker 2: don't want to trash the cops because they went to

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Speaker 2: the home, whatever was said at that time, they believed

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Speaker 2: everything seemed fine. They left Cheryl. After that, various people

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Speaker 2: on networks go to try to speak to the husband.

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Speaker 2: After we do it first on crime stories. He won't

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Speaker 2: give a statement, he won't look for her, He makes

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Speaker 2: all sorts of odd comments. But after that, I think

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Speaker 2: police realize something's very off killed her. This is why

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Speaker 2: all the baby shaw O friends are out literally searching

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Speaker 2: for her, putting in flyers, using their own money to

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Speaker 2: try to find her. I guess you want to talk

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Speaker 2: about the forensic cabinets that has just recently been uncovered.

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Speaker 1: But before that, what is so critical. There are two

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Speaker 1: things that go together, timelines and patterns. When you are

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Speaker 1: putting together your timeline and you see a pattern that

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Speaker 1: has been broken that should be highlighted, you do not

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Speaker 1: move from that broken pattern. And what we have here

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Speaker 1: is a daughter that calls her mama every morning and

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Speaker 1: every evening and those calls stopped. That is the broken

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Speaker 1: pattern that concerns me more than anything else. And when

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Speaker 1: you're looking at the timeline, like you said, her co

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Speaker 1: workers are concerned, not her husband. Her co workers are

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Speaker 1: calling the police, not her husband. When they show up

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Speaker 1: and say, hey, she missed, you know, her work day

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Speaker 1: at the hospital, He's like, no, no, everything's good, everything's fine,

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Speaker 1: and they leave, but they don't see her, they don't

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Speaker 1: talk to her. And again there's that timeline that's got

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Speaker 1: a broken pattern.

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Speaker 2: This woman is in touch with her mother and family

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Speaker 2: even though they are in that Paul as so many

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Speaker 2: of these women, she may not tell the family, Hey,

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Speaker 2: I've got problems at huh, because somehow batter women believe

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Speaker 2: that reflects on them. They don't have the perfect home.

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Speaker 2: They picked to the wrong person, it's their fault. Well,

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Speaker 2: none of that is true. In the last days, police

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Speaker 2: conduct a search of the home and song was too

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Speaker 2: much to even say. And they find a pink stain

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Speaker 2: in the carpet. When they move the bed in the

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Speaker 2: master bedroom, they find a larger quantity of blood. I've

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Speaker 2: been told when I see police taking your bathtub out

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Speaker 2: of your home, you got a problem. They apparently find

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Speaker 2: blood in the calking c a U l ki ng

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Speaker 2: the calking between the bathtub and the wall, you know,

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Speaker 2: to fill up that little space so water won't go

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Speaker 2: down and write out your wood or your wall. They

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Speaker 2: find blood there that's obviously invisible to the naked eye

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Speaker 2: because they had to use a blue star kit similar

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Speaker 2: to luminol. I don't know what else they found, but

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Speaker 2: I know that much, and they are stating sources are stating,

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Speaker 2: not official police comment, but sources are saying that police

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Speaker 2: found evidence of a drag mark, which I assume is

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Speaker 2: going to be the pink stain. They're talking about that

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Speaker 2: her body was dragged. Of course, that kicks off an

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Speaker 2: entire scenario. It's a you know, a chain of investigative technique.

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Speaker 2: They then go to one nearby Walmart, where they discover

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Speaker 2: the husband, nash but buys a set of three knives.

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Speaker 2: One of those knives is found in the home. How

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Speaker 2: can you get lose two knives in five days? Those

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Speaker 2: two knives are missing, which is problematic and foreboding. Then

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Speaker 2: they find him on other Walmart security surveillance buying a

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Speaker 2: trove of cleaning supplies. If you ever see David Lynch buying.

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Speaker 3: Tarps and ammonia, you know what, rubber gloves, You go

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Speaker 3: straight to the police, straight straight, don't even call, go

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Speaker 3: there and lie on the front steps until somebody will

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Speaker 3: listen to you and Nancy.

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Speaker 1: The other thing about that stain is it is large

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Speaker 1: enough that would suggest that much blood loss is not

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Speaker 1: something you could recover from.

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Speaker 2: Well, it reminds me of the missing Connecticut Mama five

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Speaker 2: Jennifer DilOS Potus Delos or poc. Husband obviously killed Jennifer

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Speaker 2: and got rid of her body, and then he and

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Speaker 2: his girlfriend, his mistress, Michelle Traconis went all over town

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Speaker 2: getting rid of bloody clothing, bloody rags, bloody bra you

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Speaker 2: name it. In I forgot how many trash receptacles over

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Speaker 2: five throwing away blood evidence. Then police did an incredible job.

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Speaker 2: They put together a video and photographic montage from home

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Speaker 2: surveillance video of other people's homes, ring doorbell cams, traffic,

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Speaker 2: red light cameras, stop sign cameras, even when a public

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Speaker 2: bus door opens. They get the video and they see

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Speaker 2: photos delos flying by where he's in an employees car

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Speaker 2: that he just took. Then he changes out the seat

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Speaker 2: in the back car of a vehicle. He takes the

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Speaker 2: employees vehicle and gets it details and washed on that

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Speaker 2: seat that he replaced, Jennifer's hair and blood is found.

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Speaker 2: So you see him as that bus door opens, flying

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Speaker 2: by on the way to the detail shop. Then they

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Speaker 2: pick him up on the survellance video at the detailed

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Speaker 2: shop getting the car detailed and cleaned out. But there's

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Speaker 2: still tray evans left behind. So in this case, I

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Speaker 2: started with Jennifer Dilla's large quantity of blood found in

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Speaker 2: her garage, an amount that would indicate there was a

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Speaker 2: fatal injury because you could not survive losing that much blood,

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Speaker 2: copious amounts of blood.

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Speaker 1: You know, you look at this case with Mamta and

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Speaker 1: the husband, it meant, hey, we had dinner, everything was great,

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Speaker 1: everything was normal. He's the lord normal. But then he

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Speaker 1: never talks about they went to bed, they put the

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Speaker 1: baby to bed, they got up the next morning, had

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Speaker 1: breakfast and coffee or whatever. He never talks about her

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Speaker 1: getting ready for work. He never talks about her leaving

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Speaker 1: the house again. But again he never called police. And

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Speaker 1: the timeline is pretty tight.

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Speaker 2: Nancy.

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Speaker 1: On the twenty fourth, she's telling a buddy, hey, we're

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Speaker 1: having some trouble in the marriage. On the twenty seven,

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Speaker 1: she misses work. By the thirtieth rolls around, you know,

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Speaker 1: she's not talking to her mama anymore. Well, again, law

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Speaker 1: enforcement starts working backwards, and they find out that even

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Speaker 1: on the twenty eighth, her friends from the baby shower

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Speaker 1: are already really concerned. And then the husband says, oh, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I saw her on the thirty first. Well that doesn't

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Speaker 1: add up. If she's not talking to her mama and

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Speaker 1: she ain't talking to her friends, she ain't talking to you.

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Speaker 2: I was just reading and watching everything I could about

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Speaker 2: Naudia and about mom To and making phone calls. I

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Speaker 2: found out that Nadia Navarro she tells me that she

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Speaker 2: took mom to shopping one day, and I don't mean

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Speaker 2: for a shopping extravaganza out of town. They were just

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Speaker 2: going less than twenty minutes from the house to the

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Speaker 2: grocery store that had spices so she could do her

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Speaker 2: in Nepalese cooking and so they were going to a

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Speaker 2: special spice store and the husband, Narish Bat, called Nadia.

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Speaker 2: I think she said at least twenty times in the

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Speaker 2: space of you know, a few minutes, screaming at her,

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Speaker 2: haranguing her on the phone, ordering her to turn the

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Speaker 2: car around and bring mom to back. And Nadia Navarro

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Speaker 2: did not turn the car around. Now, I don't know

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Speaker 2: what hell mom to pay, mom To had to pay

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Speaker 2: when she got back home for going to the grocery store,

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Speaker 2: but apparently that happened. I have no reason to disbelieve,

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Speaker 2: not in Novorro. I'm just thinking about what kind of

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Speaker 2: life mam Toa was leading, and now she won't be

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Speaker 2: there to bring up her baby girl. She will be

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Speaker 2: raised without her mother.

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Speaker 1: And you know, Nancy, we've seen this play out over

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Speaker 1: and over and over, and friends notice it. If Lucy

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Speaker 1: and David walk in the house this afternoon and you go, hey,

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Speaker 1: how was practice. The way they answer you, you immediately

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Speaker 1: know are they okay or not. They don't have to

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Speaker 1: say much, they don't have to do much. You know,

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Speaker 1: her mama the last time she talked to her, said

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Speaker 1: she just didn't seem happy.

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Speaker 2: Having troubles at home, having no one to turn to,

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Speaker 2: reaching out on an anonymous Facebook site about not knowing

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Speaker 2: what to do and know where to time, just thinking

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Speaker 2: about what she lived through and her single biggest fear

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Speaker 2: I think was being taken away from baby Nima.

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Speaker 1: No doubt. And you know, you also wonder did he

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Speaker 1: do some of the classic things? Well, one he moved

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Speaker 1: her away from her family to another country. I doubt

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Speaker 1: she had access to her passport. I doubt she had

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Speaker 1: access to their money. I doubt she had access to,

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Speaker 1: you know, have a credit card or to get a

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Speaker 1: plane ticket home. And you look at these things and you,

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Speaker 1: just like you said, you wonder what hell she was

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Speaker 1: living through before what we believe is her murder.

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Speaker 2: And so now this is interesting and I expect it

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Speaker 2: to change now, not each spot has been charged with

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Speaker 2: tampering or concealing a human body, but not murder. I mean,

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Speaker 2: how can you have one without the other. I think

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Speaker 2: the blood evidence will carry the day. I've also been

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Speaker 2: told that baby Nima is with friends of the mom.

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Speaker 2: Mom to his mother is trying to get here from Nepal,

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Speaker 2: and she'll probably end up taking Nima back home to Nepal.

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Speaker 2: Would be my guests, right.

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Speaker 1: I like the fact they've charged him with something, get

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Speaker 1: him in jail. And I say this all the time,

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna say it again. The investigation does not

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Speaker 1: stop and arrest. They're gonna keep working. And when I hear,

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Speaker 1: you know, his defense attorney say, well, there's no body, like,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be no case here. You don't need a body.

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Speaker 1: And second of all, in the words of Nazy Grace,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to reward him for being a good criminal.

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Speaker 1: Just because we have not been able to find her

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Speaker 1: yet doesn't mean we're not going to.

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Speaker 2: You know, there have been a lot of nobody cases,

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Speaker 2: but here's the thing. They're difficult to prove and sometimes

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Speaker 2: they don't happen. To look at Stacy Peterson. Stacy Peterson

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Speaker 2: was killed by Drew Peterson. He's convicted of killing his

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Speaker 2: third wife, Kathleen Savio. She was found dead and beaten

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Speaker 2: in a bone dry bathtub. But since Drew Peterson was

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Speaker 2: a police officer her cod it was determined was accidental

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Speaker 2: cause of death drowning in the bathtub. Okay. She was

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Speaker 2: later exhumed and murder was proven. Now he's in jail

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Speaker 2: for that. Gee, I wonder what happened to Stacy. So

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Speaker 2: that has never been prosecuted because there's not a body.

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Speaker 2: I can tell you where she is. She's in a cooler,

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Speaker 2: a blue and white cooler at the bottom of the water.

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Speaker 2: That's where she is. But we don't have her body,

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Speaker 2: so it hasn't been prosecuted. Then you've got Susanne Morphew.

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Speaker 2: Her body has just been found and still no prosecution.

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Speaker 2: But there have been many, many cases where women were

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Speaker 2: not found. Crystal Rogers is another example. Her case went

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Speaker 2: uncharged for years, her body still has not been found,

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Speaker 2: and her fiance, Brooks Hawk, has just been charged. And

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Speaker 2: that's only because his idiot co defendants blabbed on the phone,

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Speaker 2: and you know, their phone calls came to light about

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Speaker 2: moving her car and everything else they did in furtherance

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Speaker 2: of the crime. So it's very difficult at times to

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Speaker 2: prove a nobody case. Can I remind you of Julie Love.

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Speaker 2: That's the case you'll probably remember absolutely she was murdered.

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Speaker 2: She was a preschool physical therapy and movement teacher in kindergarten.

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Speaker 2: I believe it was just just as cute as the

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Speaker 2: day is long. She was on her way home from

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Speaker 2: a meeting back it's the summer of nineteen eighty eight,

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Speaker 2: round and her little Mustang and she started walking. Now,

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Speaker 2: the car was about halfway between her boyfriend's home and

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Speaker 2: a gas station, so people believe cops thought she set

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Speaker 2: out for one of those two places, but no one

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Speaker 2: ever reported seeing her, and the purpose saw her, followed

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Speaker 2: her and grabbed her. Everyone at first suspected the boyfriend,

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Speaker 2: and I of course went and met with the district

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Speaker 2: attorney and I said, you know, why aren't we indicting

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Speaker 2: the boyfriend and goes, well, well, just gonna wait. Well

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Speaker 2: Slaton of course was right, because years later they felt

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Speaker 2: they couldn't approve the case without a body. Years later,

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Speaker 2: a woman gets beaten within an inch of her life

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Speaker 2: and she the boyfriend, gets arrested. While he's in jail,

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Speaker 2: she says, Okay, I've got something. I've got something to

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Speaker 2: keep in jail. They go what she says, he killed

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Speaker 2: heally Love, and they're what. So they go to the

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Speaker 2: location where she says the body was thrown by dumps

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Speaker 2: her way out in the middle of nowhere, and guess

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Speaker 2: what they find. Julie loves glass eye. You would never

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Speaker 2: have even known Julie was wearing a glass eye, but

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Speaker 2: she was just like the other eye. And they found that.

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Speaker 2: I believe they found some bones. And what happened was

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Speaker 2: the Purp and his gang were driving along. They see

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Speaker 2: Julie Love. They go, let's get that girl. They pull over.

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Speaker 2: She runs toward another house and acts like she's going in,

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Speaker 2: and they wait her out and while she comes back around,

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Speaker 2: they grab her, rape or rape or rape or raper

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Speaker 2: and then kill her. Nobody no case until they got

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Speaker 2: that glass eye here.

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Speaker 1: You got that's right, and Hammon's got lethal injection. Nancy,

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Speaker 1: I was in college when that happened, And.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was in preschool there. In fact, I don't

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Speaker 2: think I was even born yet. I was in college.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead, Well, not that I'm that much younger.

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Speaker 2: Than that your implications are lost on me because they

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Speaker 2: are not gerald them. Well in high school when that

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Speaker 2: happened and you had already graduated from law school, go ahead,

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Speaker 2: let me be transparent.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't because I should have been, but it took

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Speaker 1: me a little longer graduate because I didn't exactly go

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Speaker 1: full time.

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Speaker 2: As Cheryl McCollum and put it. Let me be transparent earth, Okay,

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Speaker 2: go ahead.

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Speaker 1: Because I want to be even more transparent than usual.

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Speaker 1: So it was. It was one of those things in

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Speaker 1: the criminal justice department they wanted us to, like pass

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Speaker 1: out flyers, reminding people, you know, check your old, check

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Speaker 1: your tires, like, don't run out of gas, Like there's

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Speaker 1: things you can absolutely do to maybe prevent what happened

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Speaker 1: to Julie and Will was a horrible, horrible crime.

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Speaker 2: Nobody, no case. And it wasn't until Emanuel Hammond's was

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Speaker 2: behind bars for armed robbery some other felony and his

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Speaker 2: girlfriend ratted him out.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's what the defense attorney has already said in

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Speaker 1: Monty's case, nobody, no crime. But it's not gonna work.

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Speaker 2: Nancy, especially not when they match that blood up to her.

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Speaker 2: They're gonna get her DNA, or if they can't find

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Speaker 2: her DNA in the home, they can compare it to

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Speaker 2: the DNA of the baby and you'll get mitochondrial DNA

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Speaker 2: that way, a DNA match through that. So once that

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Speaker 2: blood matches up to mama, which it will, we will

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Speaker 2: have enough of a quantity of blood to prove that

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Speaker 2: she could not have lived. That taken with the totality

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Speaker 2: of the circumstances, will result in a murder charge.

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Speaker 1: And I guarantee you law enforcement is on that timeline

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Speaker 1: right now, because between the twenty four and the thirty first,

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Speaker 1: he didn't go to work because he was by himself

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Speaker 1: having to take care of that baby, or took the

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Speaker 1: baby to some babysitter. But that there'll be evidence of

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Speaker 1: that as well.

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Speaker 2: You know another thing about in any spot, he kept

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Speaker 2: telling everybody that he was with the army, which he was,

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Speaker 2: and that he still had top secret security clearance. Ladies,

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Speaker 2: when a guy starts telling you about all of his

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Speaker 2: covert activities, you pull a covert activity, get up from

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Speaker 2: the restaurant table, go to the bathroom and leave. Run

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Speaker 2: run as if you had seen a monster. All of

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Speaker 2: his secret service, top security my rear end know he

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Speaker 2: was just a bully in the home and now Mamta

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Speaker 2: is dead.

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Speaker 1: That was so powerful. I was letting you just hang

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Speaker 1: there because it's absolutely the truth.

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Speaker 2: And you know what, can ask, when did you ever

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Speaker 2: let anything just hang there?

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Speaker 3: Never?

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Speaker 2: So obviously you're like having lunch or something in the background.

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Speaker 2: I can't see you.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you. The last time I had something

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Speaker 1: hanging there is when you told me that's a danglar participle. Eden.

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Speaker 2: Well, somebody had to tell you, Cheryl. I'm your friend.

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Speaker 2: I felt I had to tell you.

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Speaker 1: Well, listen, I heard that danglar participle is how you

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Speaker 1: get a pregnant Pauls. So be careful.

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Speaker 2: You have been waiting to use that on me. I

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Speaker 2: know that you lay and wait, waiting, waiting for the

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Speaker 2: right moment to pounce. Hey, question, Cheryl, how long till

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Speaker 2: they charge him with murder?

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Speaker 1: Less than a week?

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Speaker 2: Hm? Does Virginia have the death penalty? Oh? They don't.

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Speaker 2: July twenty twenty one, Virginia twenty third state in the

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Speaker 2: Union to completely do away with the death penalty. Okay,

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Speaker 2: whoever voted for that. You can take him home to

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Speaker 2: your house because he will get out that will have.

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Speaker 2: And you know, another aspect of this is Niema will

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Speaker 2: probably be taken to Nepal to be raised by her grandma,

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Speaker 2: and she will have no memory of mom to.

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Speaker 1: That's the saddest thing of all, isn't it? As much

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Speaker 1: as she loved that baby, those adorable selfish she takes

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Speaker 1: with her in the background.

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Speaker 2: Over what a trip to the spice door, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 2: to cook for his sorry behind. I'm just waiting to

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Speaker 2: see it all unfold. I just don't want her to

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Speaker 2: get lost in the sea of victims that we cover

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Speaker 2: every day. I don't want that for any crime victim.

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Speaker 2: But you know, Cheryl, I've told so many women when

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Speaker 2: I was a volunteer at the batter Women's Center, aunt

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Speaker 2: to today, when you first realize that, when you confront

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Speaker 2: the reality that there is violence in your home, it's

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Speaker 2: not getting any better. It will must likely get worse.

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Speaker 2: Those are the statistics. It's not just my fabricated warning,

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Speaker 2: it's real. Those are the statistics. If you want to

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Speaker 2: save yourself, but more important, your children, you have to

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Speaker 2: get out and never go back.

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Speaker 1: It's never going to get better.

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Speaker 2: And I know that's not what any person would choose

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Speaker 2: to break up their home and leave. But the alternative

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Speaker 2: is much worse, much worse, Cheryl.

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Speaker 1: He will love you to death.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what love has to do with it.

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Speaker 2: I'll just meet you with one cliche after the next.

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Speaker 2: But I just hate it from Mom to and her

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Speaker 2: family and Nima and the feeling of helplessness the mother

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Speaker 2: must feel coming from Nepal making that journey. Just sick

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Speaker 2: in her heart, knowing that Mom has gone, wanting to

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Speaker 2: believe she's still alive, the anxiety of not knowing it's

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Speaker 2: going to be torture for her, and I just pray

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Speaker 2: for her and the baby.

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Speaker 1: I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is the Crime Roundup with

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Speaker 1: zones Heaven. Mm hmm