1 00:00:15,076 --> 00:00:24,956 Speaker 1: Bushkin, This is solvable. I'm Jacob Weisberg. I remember trying 2 00:00:24,996 --> 00:00:27,916 Speaker 1: to compare everything I was experiencing too American movies I 3 00:00:27,956 --> 00:00:30,756 Speaker 1: had seen, like, Okay, where's Bruce Wellis? I can't find him? 4 00:00:30,796 --> 00:00:33,596 Speaker 1: Where all these people you know who fall? South Dakota 5 00:00:33,716 --> 00:00:38,276 Speaker 1: is very different from Syria. Ahmed Botter became a refugee 6 00:00:38,316 --> 00:00:42,396 Speaker 1: as a young kid. Like him, around the world, seven 7 00:00:42,476 --> 00:00:47,756 Speaker 1: point one million school aged children are refugees. Although Bater 8 00:00:47,836 --> 00:00:52,956 Speaker 1: witnessed serious destruction and devastation, he doesn't define himself by 9 00:00:52,996 --> 00:00:56,436 Speaker 1: his displacement alone. Well. First, I think you have to 10 00:00:56,476 --> 00:00:59,076 Speaker 1: realize that you have a story to tell, and then 11 00:00:59,116 --> 00:01:01,716 Speaker 1: you have to realize how you can tell that story. 12 00:01:02,196 --> 00:01:04,996 Speaker 1: His Boter entered high school, he started to explore his 13 00:01:05,116 --> 00:01:08,196 Speaker 1: identity more and more. I started to kind of grapple 14 00:01:08,596 --> 00:01:12,316 Speaker 1: with what it meant to be an Iraqi American Muslim refugee. 15 00:01:12,596 --> 00:01:15,356 Speaker 1: It was just a beginning. Yes, he realized he was 16 00:01:15,396 --> 00:01:18,916 Speaker 1: a refugee, and yes he was displaced, but he was 17 00:01:19,036 --> 00:01:22,676 Speaker 1: also a poet and later a college graduate. He began 18 00:01:22,716 --> 00:01:24,876 Speaker 1: to carve od a space where all the parts of 19 00:01:24,876 --> 00:01:28,236 Speaker 1: his identity could coexist. As a young person, publishing is 20 00:01:28,316 --> 00:01:31,356 Speaker 1: this thing that's so exclusive and this thing that's only 21 00:01:31,396 --> 00:01:33,516 Speaker 1: the few of us get access to, and I thought, okay, 22 00:01:33,516 --> 00:01:37,116 Speaker 1: Well designed the website and then started by just me 23 00:01:37,196 --> 00:01:40,876 Speaker 1: begging my classmates to submit. Botter's website expanded and then 24 00:01:40,916 --> 00:01:46,476 Speaker 1: it evolved into a platform called Narratio Today. Narratio published 25 00:01:46,516 --> 00:01:50,436 Speaker 1: his work from eighteen different countries and both partnerships with 26 00:01:50,556 --> 00:01:54,676 Speaker 1: the UN and the MET that created spaces for displaced 27 00:01:54,716 --> 00:01:57,996 Speaker 1: young people to feel that they can transcend the tragedy 28 00:01:58,076 --> 00:02:02,156 Speaker 1: that may have initially caused their displacement. A generation of 29 00:02:02,156 --> 00:02:06,796 Speaker 1: people transcending the stereotypes put upon them. Botter has compiled 30 00:02:06,836 --> 00:02:10,036 Speaker 1: their stories and poems into a new book. It's called 31 00:02:10,276 --> 00:02:14,596 Speaker 1: While the Earth Sleeps. We Travel in moving from Baghdad 32 00:02:14,636 --> 00:02:18,716 Speaker 1: to Syria, to South Dakota and later Houston, Texas, Botter 33 00:02:18,796 --> 00:02:21,996 Speaker 1: realized his story was weady, but that didn't mean it 34 00:02:22,076 --> 00:02:25,476 Speaker 1: had to weigh him down. We're faced with a negativity loop. 35 00:02:25,516 --> 00:02:30,316 Speaker 1: When we hear the word refugee, we immediately think of pain, 36 00:02:30,476 --> 00:02:34,756 Speaker 1: We immediately think of tragedy. But by creating spaces where 37 00:02:34,796 --> 00:02:40,196 Speaker 1: refugees themselves can go from passive victims to individuals who 38 00:02:40,236 --> 00:02:44,636 Speaker 1: have full control of their stories. This is solvable. My 39 00:02:44,716 --> 00:02:48,116 Speaker 1: co host Ann Apple Bomb spoke with Botter about his platform, 40 00:02:48,236 --> 00:02:51,076 Speaker 1: the radio, and how he's helping young people around the 41 00:02:51,076 --> 00:02:54,476 Speaker 1: world see their own potential and put it into words. 42 00:03:02,436 --> 00:03:04,676 Speaker 1: So this palm as in the middle of the book, 43 00:03:05,516 --> 00:03:08,996 Speaker 1: and it's called Our Earth and Yours. I wrote this 44 00:03:09,316 --> 00:03:14,436 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, Our Earth and Yours. Some 45 00:03:14,516 --> 00:03:19,556 Speaker 1: boats ask the sea's permission before sailing. Others have no 46 00:03:19,636 --> 00:03:25,436 Speaker 1: choice but to introduce themselves hurriedly, forcefully, holding bodies that 47 00:03:25,516 --> 00:03:29,996 Speaker 1: tell stories in dark rooms, over rusty space heaters and 48 00:03:30,116 --> 00:03:34,316 Speaker 1: pristine rugs. They say that a country lives inside a body, 49 00:03:34,436 --> 00:03:37,876 Speaker 1: but it will always die outside of it. What is 50 00:03:37,916 --> 00:03:41,956 Speaker 1: a border but a stubborn scar, a past pain that 51 00:03:42,036 --> 00:03:46,036 Speaker 1: no longer persists, but a reminder that you will never 52 00:03:46,076 --> 00:03:50,636 Speaker 1: return to your previous form. Permanence is an illusion we 53 00:03:50,676 --> 00:03:54,756 Speaker 1: are forbidden to taste. My name is Amat Bedder. I'm 54 00:03:54,756 --> 00:03:58,396 Speaker 1: an Iraqi American writer, social entrepreneur and former refugee, and 55 00:03:58,876 --> 00:04:01,476 Speaker 1: on July twenty fifth, two thousand and six, our home 56 00:04:01,516 --> 00:04:04,316 Speaker 1: in Baghdad was bombed. I wasn't home, I was away 57 00:04:04,316 --> 00:04:07,716 Speaker 1: with my grandparents, and I came home the next day 58 00:04:07,796 --> 00:04:12,676 Speaker 1: and found out what happened. Luckily everyone survived. It was 59 00:04:12,996 --> 00:04:15,876 Speaker 1: a dead missile. And then, you know, a week later 60 00:04:15,916 --> 00:04:18,636 Speaker 1: we moved to Syria, which was taken in refugees at 61 00:04:18,676 --> 00:04:21,236 Speaker 1: the time. This was before the war, to be clear. Yes, 62 00:04:21,356 --> 00:04:23,076 Speaker 1: this was between two thousand and six and two thousand 63 00:04:23,116 --> 00:04:25,876 Speaker 1: and eight. We were going back and forth between Syria 64 00:04:25,876 --> 00:04:28,516 Speaker 1: and Iraq just to visit family. My parents were on 65 00:04:28,596 --> 00:04:31,956 Speaker 1: paid leave, you know, they were civil engineers and baghadad 66 00:04:32,036 --> 00:04:35,316 Speaker 1: for over twenty years. And then during one of those trips, 67 00:04:35,356 --> 00:04:38,716 Speaker 1: we heard about this UN program that would we settle refugees, 68 00:04:39,436 --> 00:04:41,356 Speaker 1: and my dad thought, we really don't have, you know, 69 00:04:41,396 --> 00:04:44,516 Speaker 1: anything to lose, and he applied and we were very 70 00:04:44,556 --> 00:04:46,636 Speaker 1: lucky to be among you know, just the one percent 71 00:04:46,716 --> 00:04:49,756 Speaker 1: of all refugees that are resettled. And we landed in 72 00:04:49,796 --> 00:04:52,116 Speaker 1: the US on May nineteen, two thousand and eight. So 73 00:04:52,156 --> 00:04:54,276 Speaker 1: after two years in Syria, we left Iraq in two 74 00:04:54,276 --> 00:04:58,076 Speaker 1: thousand and six and flew out from Damascus and to 75 00:04:58,116 --> 00:05:00,396 Speaker 1: Budapest and then Budapeshi New York City, and then New 76 00:05:00,476 --> 00:05:03,836 Speaker 1: York City to Chicago, and then Chicago finally to fall 77 00:05:03,876 --> 00:05:07,356 Speaker 1: South Dakota. That must have been very jarring that transition 78 00:05:07,476 --> 00:05:10,036 Speaker 1: from Iraq to Syria to sell to Koa. You know, 79 00:05:10,036 --> 00:05:12,556 Speaker 1: it was exciting. Yeah, two thousand and eight, so it 80 00:05:12,676 --> 00:05:15,796 Speaker 1: was just nine going on ten. And that age is 81 00:05:15,876 --> 00:05:18,596 Speaker 1: so exciting because you're just a sponge. You just want 82 00:05:18,596 --> 00:05:21,276 Speaker 1: to take everything in. And I remember trying to compare 83 00:05:21,356 --> 00:05:24,196 Speaker 1: everything I was experiencing to American movies I had seen, 84 00:05:24,556 --> 00:05:26,316 Speaker 1: you know, I had seen all these action movies with 85 00:05:26,316 --> 00:05:28,996 Speaker 1: Bruce Willis and all of these kind of films that 86 00:05:29,076 --> 00:05:32,116 Speaker 1: framed how I understood America to be. And all of 87 00:05:32,156 --> 00:05:34,276 Speaker 1: a sudden, you know, we spent the night in New 88 00:05:34,356 --> 00:05:36,436 Speaker 1: York City before flying out to Chicago, and I was 89 00:05:36,476 --> 00:05:38,476 Speaker 1: just like, Okay, where's Bruce Willis. I can't find him 90 00:05:38,516 --> 00:05:41,356 Speaker 1: where all these people? But it was exciting. It was exciting. 91 00:05:41,396 --> 00:05:43,796 Speaker 1: Obviously it was a completely new place, you know, to 92 00:05:44,036 --> 00:05:47,316 Speaker 1: fall South Dakota is very different from from Syria, and 93 00:05:47,316 --> 00:05:50,196 Speaker 1: we were living there. But I was eager to kind 94 00:05:50,236 --> 00:05:52,916 Speaker 1: of just dive in and meet people and get a 95 00:05:52,996 --> 00:05:56,076 Speaker 1: chance to connect. My English wasn't really great at the time. 96 00:05:56,116 --> 00:05:58,716 Speaker 1: I had taken some classes in Syria, so I had 97 00:05:58,756 --> 00:06:03,436 Speaker 1: to adapt quickly. But you never felt any sense of displacement. Initially, 98 00:06:03,476 --> 00:06:06,476 Speaker 1: I don't think I understood what displacement meant or my 99 00:06:06,516 --> 00:06:09,516 Speaker 1: own relationship to it. But I thought, well, this is 100 00:06:09,556 --> 00:06:12,236 Speaker 1: just a new place we're moving to. But I think 101 00:06:12,276 --> 00:06:14,396 Speaker 1: as I got older, as I started high school, I 102 00:06:14,396 --> 00:06:17,036 Speaker 1: started to kind of grapple with what it meant to, 103 00:06:17,236 --> 00:06:19,956 Speaker 1: you know, be an Iraqi American Muslim refugee. I was like, 104 00:06:20,036 --> 00:06:23,116 Speaker 1: we call this immigration, we call this, you know, moving 105 00:06:23,156 --> 00:06:26,716 Speaker 1: from one place in another, We call this displacement. Did 106 00:06:26,756 --> 00:06:29,796 Speaker 1: you feel at that time or do you think about 107 00:06:29,796 --> 00:06:32,876 Speaker 1: this now that the either that a kind of a 108 00:06:32,996 --> 00:06:36,236 Speaker 1: stereotype was being thrust upon you. You know, you are 109 00:06:36,276 --> 00:06:38,916 Speaker 1: a Muslim refugee at a time when people are worried 110 00:06:38,916 --> 00:06:42,316 Speaker 1: about Muslim refugees. Did you have to grapple with that? 111 00:06:42,516 --> 00:06:46,556 Speaker 1: Did you disagree with being typecast that way? I think 112 00:06:46,556 --> 00:06:49,996 Speaker 1: I didn't realize what I was up against in terms 113 00:06:49,996 --> 00:06:53,996 Speaker 1: of those identities until I actually started to realize how 114 00:06:54,036 --> 00:06:56,676 Speaker 1: I can claim them and how I can express them 115 00:06:56,676 --> 00:07:02,236 Speaker 1: and maneuver and negotiate each of them and their intersections 116 00:07:02,316 --> 00:07:07,396 Speaker 1: and their tensions. So, for you, telling stories was initially 117 00:07:07,516 --> 00:07:10,996 Speaker 1: a way to solve this personal problem, this personal question 118 00:07:11,036 --> 00:07:14,316 Speaker 1: of how you fit in exactly. It was a way 119 00:07:14,316 --> 00:07:17,396 Speaker 1: of asking, Okay, well what is my personal story? And 120 00:07:17,436 --> 00:07:20,716 Speaker 1: then how can I share it? And who will listen? 121 00:07:21,156 --> 00:07:24,076 Speaker 1: And once I figured out that folks were interested in 122 00:07:24,156 --> 00:07:28,356 Speaker 1: hearing it, then I quickly learned how I could begin 123 00:07:28,396 --> 00:07:30,876 Speaker 1: to tell it. And then that's how the journey began. 124 00:07:31,716 --> 00:07:34,836 Speaker 1: How did you get from that personal realization from the 125 00:07:34,916 --> 00:07:40,516 Speaker 1: understanding that stories would help you to the founding of Naratio, 126 00:07:41,076 --> 00:07:44,356 Speaker 1: which is designed to help other people sell their stories. 127 00:07:44,956 --> 00:07:48,156 Speaker 1: The summer after my freshman year, I was invited to 128 00:07:48,236 --> 00:07:51,796 Speaker 1: a conference in DC Journalism conference and for the conference, 129 00:07:51,836 --> 00:07:53,836 Speaker 1: they said you have to make a website or a 130 00:07:53,876 --> 00:07:56,676 Speaker 1: blog for your work. And this was the first time 131 00:07:56,716 --> 00:07:58,796 Speaker 1: that I realized that me trying to figure out what 132 00:07:58,876 --> 00:08:01,116 Speaker 1: it meant to be an Iraqi American list some refugee 133 00:08:01,836 --> 00:08:03,996 Speaker 1: was actually of interest to other people who were either 134 00:08:04,036 --> 00:08:07,316 Speaker 1: going through the same thing or we're just interested in 135 00:08:07,356 --> 00:08:10,516 Speaker 1: what that exploration meant. And so from there I thought, Okay, 136 00:08:10,556 --> 00:08:13,956 Speaker 1: well I want to explore this and I'm going to 137 00:08:14,036 --> 00:08:16,356 Speaker 1: do that through my writing and through my poetry and 138 00:08:16,396 --> 00:08:20,196 Speaker 1: through this kind of initial website and then that website 139 00:08:20,196 --> 00:08:23,276 Speaker 1: that they had us create for that conference. All of 140 00:08:23,316 --> 00:08:25,396 Speaker 1: a sudden, I had classed me into asking me about it, 141 00:08:25,516 --> 00:08:27,436 Speaker 1: reading the work and saying, okay, well, I didn't know 142 00:08:27,516 --> 00:08:28,956 Speaker 1: that this is what it meant to be an Iraqi 143 00:08:28,956 --> 00:08:31,716 Speaker 1: American Muslim refugee, or I didn't know about you know, 144 00:08:31,796 --> 00:08:34,716 Speaker 1: that specific aspect of those identities, And all of a 145 00:08:34,756 --> 00:08:36,676 Speaker 1: sudden I thought, okay, well, this was good and this 146 00:08:36,756 --> 00:08:39,836 Speaker 1: was empowering, but why not make it something that's available 147 00:08:39,876 --> 00:08:43,556 Speaker 1: to other young people. And then in my junior year 148 00:08:43,836 --> 00:08:46,276 Speaker 1: of high school, I decided, okay, well, let me start 149 00:08:46,276 --> 00:08:48,596 Speaker 1: a website where I can invite other young people to 150 00:08:48,636 --> 00:08:51,516 Speaker 1: publish their work, whether that's poems, whether that's stories, whether 151 00:08:51,556 --> 00:08:55,596 Speaker 1: that's artwork or films, and I have a space that 152 00:08:55,716 --> 00:09:00,396 Speaker 1: cultivates this force, this creative force of young people, and 153 00:09:00,436 --> 00:09:03,636 Speaker 1: to make it publishing accessible to them. And then it 154 00:09:03,676 --> 00:09:06,236 Speaker 1: grew to do to workshops and so the very first 155 00:09:06,396 --> 00:09:08,316 Speaker 1: art a workshop I did here in Houston with a 156 00:09:08,356 --> 00:09:11,676 Speaker 1: local resettlement agency, I met with an amazing group of 157 00:09:11,796 --> 00:09:15,596 Speaker 1: recently arrived refuge youth and we talked about stories. We 158 00:09:15,676 --> 00:09:17,876 Speaker 1: talked about our own stories the ways that we can 159 00:09:17,916 --> 00:09:22,676 Speaker 1: share them. But ultimately that workshop was the first time 160 00:09:22,716 --> 00:09:24,996 Speaker 1: I was able to go beyond my own story and 161 00:09:25,036 --> 00:09:27,516 Speaker 1: think about the spaces that my own story can create 162 00:09:27,676 --> 00:09:31,076 Speaker 1: for other stories to exist beside it and beyond it. 163 00:09:31,956 --> 00:09:34,796 Speaker 1: Narratio kind of that came out of this realization that 164 00:09:34,796 --> 00:09:37,516 Speaker 1: we need to make publishing accessible. And then now what's 165 00:09:37,516 --> 00:09:40,476 Speaker 1: grown to include, you know, not only just the online publishing, 166 00:09:40,556 --> 00:09:42,956 Speaker 1: but also a fellowship program that we have in partnership 167 00:09:42,956 --> 00:09:46,556 Speaker 1: with the MET, you know, different partnerships with the un 168 00:09:46,676 --> 00:09:50,516 Speaker 1: different collaborations, and now we published work from eighteen countries 169 00:09:50,556 --> 00:09:53,676 Speaker 1: and you know the work. The work has grown and 170 00:09:53,756 --> 00:09:56,996 Speaker 1: what is the problem that this site is designed to solve? 171 00:09:57,076 --> 00:09:59,116 Speaker 1: How would you describe it? Is it the problem of 172 00:09:59,756 --> 00:10:02,916 Speaker 1: people feeling displaced or there or there are other kinds 173 00:10:02,956 --> 00:10:05,996 Speaker 1: of issues you're trying to get to. What it's really 174 00:10:06,036 --> 00:10:09,356 Speaker 1: trying to do is allow for a space that allows 175 00:10:09,436 --> 00:10:13,356 Speaker 1: displace young people to share the fullest extent of their 176 00:10:13,756 --> 00:10:17,476 Speaker 1: experiences on their own terms. What oftentimes tends to happen 177 00:10:17,836 --> 00:10:20,836 Speaker 1: when we think of stories of displacements or the stories 178 00:10:20,836 --> 00:10:23,436 Speaker 1: of those that happened to be displaced, we think of war, 179 00:10:23,636 --> 00:10:27,156 Speaker 1: we think of violence, we think of persecution, and that's 180 00:10:27,236 --> 00:10:30,196 Speaker 1: definitely part of the story, but that's all we hear about. 181 00:10:30,516 --> 00:10:33,436 Speaker 1: With Narratio, we wanted to create a platform and a 182 00:10:33,476 --> 00:10:37,596 Speaker 1: series of initiatives that created spaces for displace young people 183 00:10:37,596 --> 00:10:40,916 Speaker 1: to feel that they can transcend the tragedy that may 184 00:10:40,916 --> 00:10:44,956 Speaker 1: have initially caused their displacement. And so for the fellowship specifically, 185 00:10:44,996 --> 00:10:47,396 Speaker 1: the first year was focused on poetry, and so I 186 00:10:47,436 --> 00:10:50,276 Speaker 1: spent some time in Syracuse. I met with the fellows 187 00:10:50,276 --> 00:10:53,596 Speaker 1: for the month organize a series of workshops and partnership 188 00:10:53,636 --> 00:10:56,836 Speaker 1: with the university there and the Ancient New East Gallery 189 00:10:56,876 --> 00:10:59,716 Speaker 1: at the MAP And the co director for the program 190 00:10:59,756 --> 00:11:03,196 Speaker 1: was a professor at Syracuse, professor by Snort Quists an amazing, 191 00:11:03,316 --> 00:11:07,236 Speaker 1: amazing human And what we did was each fellow selected 192 00:11:07,276 --> 00:11:10,556 Speaker 1: an object from the Ancient East Gallery and reimagine their 193 00:11:10,596 --> 00:11:13,756 Speaker 1: labels as a poem, but taking to account their own 194 00:11:13,796 --> 00:11:16,996 Speaker 1: personal stories, their own personal identities, and then they get 195 00:11:17,036 --> 00:11:19,796 Speaker 1: to perform those poems at the Royal Assyrian Court in 196 00:11:19,876 --> 00:11:22,316 Speaker 1: those galleries by the end of the summer, and that 197 00:11:22,356 --> 00:11:24,716 Speaker 1: program has continued. They've been able to perform their work 198 00:11:25,236 --> 00:11:27,956 Speaker 1: at the un They've had a photography exhibit in a 199 00:11:27,996 --> 00:11:32,436 Speaker 1: performance at Christie's, in addition to local performances and exhibits 200 00:11:32,436 --> 00:11:36,156 Speaker 1: in Syracuse. And so we're really trying to create a 201 00:11:36,156 --> 00:11:39,996 Speaker 1: collective of cultural producers that then can take control of 202 00:11:40,036 --> 00:11:44,236 Speaker 1: their own stories and redefine the kind of the singular 203 00:11:44,316 --> 00:11:47,836 Speaker 1: narrative that you know is dominant around displacement, which tends 204 00:11:47,836 --> 00:11:53,516 Speaker 1: to focus on tragedy. Explain to me why the dominant 205 00:11:53,556 --> 00:11:57,916 Speaker 1: tragedy narrative is a problem. How does it trouble people, 206 00:11:57,956 --> 00:12:02,276 Speaker 1: how does it affect them? The dominant narrative that's limited 207 00:12:02,316 --> 00:12:07,676 Speaker 1: by the tragedy really ends up creating this story of 208 00:12:07,836 --> 00:12:11,356 Speaker 1: victimhood as a story that's limited by victimhood, and we 209 00:12:11,396 --> 00:12:13,316 Speaker 1: have to be able to move beyond that. But we 210 00:12:13,356 --> 00:12:16,156 Speaker 1: have to be able to move beyond it by asking 211 00:12:16,196 --> 00:12:18,476 Speaker 1: those very individuals how they want to be able to 212 00:12:18,476 --> 00:12:22,036 Speaker 1: share their stories. We can't just have an agenda and 213 00:12:22,076 --> 00:12:23,996 Speaker 1: then say, oh, this is where your story fits in, 214 00:12:24,116 --> 00:12:26,636 Speaker 1: or your story of tragedy fits in. We have to 215 00:12:26,676 --> 00:12:29,476 Speaker 1: meet folks where they're at, ask them about the fullest 216 00:12:29,516 --> 00:12:31,876 Speaker 1: extent of their experiences, and then ask them how they 217 00:12:31,916 --> 00:12:34,796 Speaker 1: want to be able to represent themselves. What's the risk 218 00:12:34,876 --> 00:12:38,636 Speaker 1: for young people who don't have this kind of opportunity. Well, first, 219 00:12:38,676 --> 00:12:40,876 Speaker 1: I think you have to realize that you have a 220 00:12:40,916 --> 00:12:43,836 Speaker 1: story to tell, and then you have to realize how 221 00:12:43,836 --> 00:12:47,436 Speaker 1: you can tell that story. What you're risking if that 222 00:12:47,556 --> 00:12:52,076 Speaker 1: doesn't happen. Is again that narrative of tragedy being becoming 223 00:12:52,076 --> 00:12:56,156 Speaker 1: the dominant one. And also there's so much personal development 224 00:12:56,236 --> 00:12:59,956 Speaker 1: that happens once you realize that you have something to 225 00:12:59,956 --> 00:13:02,716 Speaker 1: share with the world and that you are in control 226 00:13:02,756 --> 00:13:04,676 Speaker 1: of what you want to share with the world. And 227 00:13:04,716 --> 00:13:07,956 Speaker 1: also want to be clear that not everyone should be 228 00:13:07,996 --> 00:13:10,156 Speaker 1: forced to tell their own story. That's another aspect of this. 229 00:13:10,156 --> 00:13:13,196 Speaker 1: This is an invitation rather than a mandate, right, This 230 00:13:13,276 --> 00:13:16,036 Speaker 1: is something that we try to kind of offer and 231 00:13:16,076 --> 00:13:18,636 Speaker 1: then if it's something that's of interest, then you know, 232 00:13:18,676 --> 00:13:22,396 Speaker 1: we work with those young people. But if again, this 233 00:13:22,476 --> 00:13:26,316 Speaker 1: work and this mission is really aimed at providing these 234 00:13:26,356 --> 00:13:29,796 Speaker 1: spaces and then opening up opportunities for those spaces and 235 00:13:29,836 --> 00:13:33,476 Speaker 1: those individuals to grow on their own. And again, ownership 236 00:13:33,516 --> 00:13:37,236 Speaker 1: and agency is at the heart of this work. Your 237 00:13:37,316 --> 00:13:40,356 Speaker 1: new book, While the Earth Sleeps, We Travel is a 238 00:13:40,356 --> 00:13:43,956 Speaker 1: collection of poetry and prose, is by you, some by 239 00:13:44,196 --> 00:13:47,436 Speaker 1: fellow young refugees. Tell me about how you choose the 240 00:13:47,436 --> 00:13:50,156 Speaker 1: pieces for the book and how you organized it. Yeah, So, 241 00:13:50,276 --> 00:13:54,036 Speaker 1: beginning in twenty eighteen, I started traveling to Greece and 242 00:13:54,236 --> 00:13:57,836 Speaker 1: Trinad and Tobago and across the US, but mainly in Syracuse, 243 00:13:58,396 --> 00:14:01,876 Speaker 1: really doing the storytelling workshops and interviews with displace young 244 00:14:01,916 --> 00:14:05,276 Speaker 1: people in camps, outside of camps, and really asking this 245 00:14:05,316 --> 00:14:08,796 Speaker 1: fundamental question of how do you see yourself and how 246 00:14:08,836 --> 00:14:11,956 Speaker 1: do you think the world sees you? And what's that 247 00:14:12,036 --> 00:14:14,836 Speaker 1: relationship between those two questions and how would you define 248 00:14:14,876 --> 00:14:17,396 Speaker 1: it through your own respective medium? Do you want to 249 00:14:17,396 --> 00:14:19,036 Speaker 1: write a poem, do you want to share a photograph? 250 00:14:19,076 --> 00:14:21,396 Speaker 1: Do you want to share a painting? Now, in terms 251 00:14:21,436 --> 00:14:24,316 Speaker 1: of the process of how it came to be, you know, 252 00:14:24,356 --> 00:14:26,916 Speaker 1: it was a year of the collection process and then 253 00:14:26,956 --> 00:14:29,716 Speaker 1: about a year just trying to figure out the structure 254 00:14:29,756 --> 00:14:32,036 Speaker 1: of it. You know, how do you fit a drawing 255 00:14:32,076 --> 00:14:35,276 Speaker 1: by a six year old girl with you know, an 256 00:14:35,276 --> 00:14:39,036 Speaker 1: interview and a series of photographs or paintings by a 257 00:14:39,116 --> 00:14:41,756 Speaker 1: twenty three year old man, you know, from all different 258 00:14:41,756 --> 00:14:44,676 Speaker 1: parts of the world. You know, there's a series of 259 00:14:44,716 --> 00:14:47,756 Speaker 1: my own poems that are structured throughout as a mediating 260 00:14:47,796 --> 00:14:51,196 Speaker 1: force between you know, all of the pieces represented, and 261 00:14:51,236 --> 00:14:54,316 Speaker 1: so it's a really multimodal collection that's been the labor 262 00:14:54,316 --> 00:14:56,276 Speaker 1: of love for the last couple of years, and I'm very, 263 00:14:56,356 --> 00:14:59,516 Speaker 1: very excited to share with the world. Do you think 264 00:14:59,556 --> 00:15:02,156 Speaker 1: that the effect both of your book and your work, 265 00:15:02,316 --> 00:15:06,916 Speaker 1: and of of course, of narratio is likely to have 266 00:15:06,996 --> 00:15:09,876 Speaker 1: an impact on the narrative itself. Want to change the 267 00:15:09,956 --> 00:15:14,916 Speaker 1: way society speaks more broadly about refugees or is the 268 00:15:14,956 --> 00:15:18,556 Speaker 1: point really to help the refugees themselves. I think we 269 00:15:18,596 --> 00:15:21,836 Speaker 1: can do both. I think one amplifies the other. You know, 270 00:15:21,836 --> 00:15:25,236 Speaker 1: the mission is to create this global collective of displaced 271 00:15:25,236 --> 00:15:27,916 Speaker 1: young people that are trained to tell their own stories 272 00:15:27,956 --> 00:15:31,796 Speaker 1: on their own terms, as stakeholders in their communities, as leaders, 273 00:15:32,516 --> 00:15:35,716 Speaker 1: as cultural producers, and we hope that by doing that 274 00:15:35,756 --> 00:15:39,076 Speaker 1: work then we can change the narrative. What do you 275 00:15:39,076 --> 00:15:42,476 Speaker 1: think readers will gain both from the book and from 276 00:15:42,516 --> 00:15:45,996 Speaker 1: the material that's produced onto radio. I hope that readers 277 00:15:46,076 --> 00:15:49,036 Speaker 1: realize that kind of this distance we assume when we 278 00:15:49,116 --> 00:15:52,596 Speaker 1: hear that word refugee, the distance between our experiences and 279 00:15:52,676 --> 00:15:56,636 Speaker 1: theirs is actually much less than we think it is. 280 00:15:56,996 --> 00:16:00,436 Speaker 1: There are issues that folks who happen to be displaced 281 00:16:00,476 --> 00:16:03,556 Speaker 1: to have experienced that anyone can relate to, regardless if 282 00:16:03,276 --> 00:16:06,996 Speaker 1: they've experienced displacement or not whether it's my own parents 283 00:16:06,996 --> 00:16:09,996 Speaker 1: struggling to find jobs even though they had master's degrees 284 00:16:10,036 --> 00:16:13,436 Speaker 1: in civil engineering, or you know, me and my younger 285 00:16:13,476 --> 00:16:16,356 Speaker 1: sister trying to figure out, you know, just being high 286 00:16:16,356 --> 00:16:20,036 Speaker 1: school students and where we fit in and and our 287 00:16:20,076 --> 00:16:23,556 Speaker 1: own identities and negotiating those identities. These are all struggles 288 00:16:23,596 --> 00:16:26,796 Speaker 1: that are universal and we can all relate to in 289 00:16:26,836 --> 00:16:29,756 Speaker 1: some way, shape or form. Critically, the book is not 290 00:16:29,956 --> 00:16:33,996 Speaker 1: about displacement. It's just about the expression, the creative expression 291 00:16:34,036 --> 00:16:36,356 Speaker 1: of young people who happen to be displaced. It's a 292 00:16:36,436 --> 00:16:39,356 Speaker 1: key distinction that I hope is clear and that I hope, 293 00:16:39,556 --> 00:16:45,076 Speaker 1: you know, folks would appreciate. What are three things that 294 00:16:45,356 --> 00:16:49,876 Speaker 1: listeners could do themselves to support the livelihoods of displace people, 295 00:16:49,956 --> 00:16:53,916 Speaker 1: to support the integration of refugees, maybe in their own communities. 296 00:16:54,356 --> 00:16:57,276 Speaker 1: So first, I think, you know, think about the stories 297 00:16:57,436 --> 00:17:00,276 Speaker 1: that you've heard about refugees, either you know, in the 298 00:17:00,276 --> 00:17:02,876 Speaker 1: news or in your own community. Think about the experiences 299 00:17:02,876 --> 00:17:06,036 Speaker 1: you've had with folks that you've met, and really critically 300 00:17:06,076 --> 00:17:10,636 Speaker 1: examine how that presentation is happening. And then from there, 301 00:17:10,796 --> 00:17:14,276 Speaker 1: reimagine what comes to mind when you hear that word refugee. 302 00:17:14,356 --> 00:17:16,476 Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't have to be this thing that's 303 00:17:16,476 --> 00:17:18,636 Speaker 1: always so far away. It could be a neighbor, it 304 00:17:18,676 --> 00:17:21,076 Speaker 1: could be someone that your kid goes to school with, 305 00:17:21,276 --> 00:17:24,396 Speaker 1: a coworker. And then lastly, I think just learning to 306 00:17:24,596 --> 00:17:27,436 Speaker 1: lead with your own personal experience. If you meet someone 307 00:17:27,476 --> 00:17:30,716 Speaker 1: that happens to be displaced, or if you're happened to 308 00:17:30,756 --> 00:17:33,436 Speaker 1: be highlighting the experiences of someone that happens to be 309 00:17:33,476 --> 00:17:36,916 Speaker 1: displaced for an event that you're holding, allowed that individual 310 00:17:36,956 --> 00:17:40,996 Speaker 1: the space and the opportunity to speak beyond the tragedy 311 00:17:41,036 --> 00:17:44,316 Speaker 1: that may have been part of their story. Those three 312 00:17:44,356 --> 00:17:47,236 Speaker 1: things are really key as we think about displacement, the 313 00:17:47,316 --> 00:17:50,996 Speaker 1: narratives around displacement, and we lead this mission to create 314 00:17:51,036 --> 00:17:54,596 Speaker 1: a three dimensional approach to how we think about displacement, 315 00:17:54,636 --> 00:17:57,436 Speaker 1: how we think about migration, and how we think about refugees. 316 00:17:59,876 --> 00:18:02,836 Speaker 1: Ahmed Botter is the founder of New Radio. You can 317 00:18:02,876 --> 00:18:06,156 Speaker 1: find more information about his new book, While the Earth Sleeps, 318 00:18:06,196 --> 00:18:11,876 Speaker 1: We Travel At Earth Sleeps, We Travel dot Com. Remember 319 00:18:11,916 --> 00:18:15,316 Speaker 1: to check out our show notes to learn more. Solvable 320 00:18:15,396 --> 00:18:18,356 Speaker 1: is brought to you by Pushkin Industries. Our show is 321 00:18:18,396 --> 00:18:23,516 Speaker 1: produced by Camille Baptista, Senior Producer, Jocelyn Frank. Catherine Girardo 322 00:18:23,676 --> 00:18:26,916 Speaker 1: is our managing producer, and our executive producer is Mia Loebell. 323 00:18:27,516 --> 00:18:30,996 Speaker 1: Special thanks go to Heather Fane, Eric Sandler, Carly Migliori 324 00:18:31,076 --> 00:18:33,676 Speaker 1: and Kadija Holland. I'm Jacob Weisberg.