WEBVTT - 544 - Everything Is Worth It

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome my favorite murder.

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<v Speaker 2>That's Georgia Hardstar.

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<v Speaker 1>That's Karen kil Gariff.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is what we like to call a ten

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<v Speaker 2>year plan.

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<v Speaker 1>It's almost been eleven years now, we're gonna have to

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<v Speaker 1>stop saying ten I know, it's pretty great, it's pretty crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like the luckiest person in the world. Same,

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<v Speaker 2>but it is very surreal to be sitting in my

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<v Speaker 2>house trying to figure out what to watch on TV

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<v Speaker 2>in this podcast comes up on Netflix. It's so strange. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and so we're you know, hopefully the people at home understand.

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<v Speaker 2>We're just pretending like this is normal and that we

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<v Speaker 2>do it all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Couldn't I tell you anything? Speaking of Netflix and this

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<v Speaker 1>cute off that I'm worrying, did you know that when

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<v Speaker 1>we were on break, I had Molly and Tess make

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<v Speaker 1>a chart of all the outfits I've worn so I

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<v Speaker 1>don't repeat an outfit.

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<v Speaker 2>I just want to see it.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't repeat an outfit. It's an old trauma wound

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<v Speaker 1>of getting made fun of for wearing hand me downs.

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<v Speaker 1>These polls, it's sound an amazing So thank you Molly

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<v Speaker 1>and Tests for indulging my trauma and vanity I think

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<v Speaker 1>those two things are.

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<v Speaker 2>Looks like you repeated that Steve Martin shirt a couple times.

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<v Speaker 2>Those are minisodes, and so it repeats because it's the

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<v Speaker 2>same day. Yeah, daring you. Why don't you get your

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<v Speaker 2>ass up out of this chair and change outfits on

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<v Speaker 2>the day.

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<v Speaker 1>I would do that. It's like you had been okay,

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<v Speaker 1>like into it.

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<v Speaker 2>If we get you like a curtain that spins around you,

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<v Speaker 2>and when you spin back out you have a different outfit.

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<v Speaker 1>It's such a relief. Like the first time and I

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<v Speaker 1>was like, do you want to change outfits? And you're

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<v Speaker 1>like fuck no, I'm like, really great, and now I

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<v Speaker 1>need to like dazzle this and makes kind of amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>Literally, when I was leaving my house today, I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>I have to put on a shirt. I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>I have to cover my arm. I was saying all

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<v Speaker 2>these things to myself, and I was like, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>have to do shit, don't people don't Really, it's not

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<v Speaker 2>like that anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, Netflix has changed it for me a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like up the game a little.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there's the exposure aspect, right, we already had what

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<v Speaker 2>we weren't really thinking about, right, But here's my thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you're here for the glamour, don't look on

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<v Speaker 2>this side of the table.

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<v Speaker 1>I had a side fucking jam Brady outfit.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, Jan, But my thing was like, I'm trying to

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<v Speaker 2>provide the Kim deal Patricia high Smith angle of we're

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<v Speaker 2>busy and we're not doing that thing. I like that,

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<v Speaker 2>and we represent those girls. I have those days you

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<v Speaker 2>can see in the binder. I've lived that binder.

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<v Speaker 1>I know she has those hangovers and that PMS despite

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<v Speaker 1>not having her fucking uterus, she still has.

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<v Speaker 2>Those All those hormones are in there.

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<v Speaker 1>And she puts on Steve Martin T shirt vintage, but

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<v Speaker 1>she puts it on.

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<v Speaker 2>She puts it on.

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<v Speaker 1>You were gonna tell me a story?

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<v Speaker 2>Last weekend we went to Dollywood? Shut up? Yep, Me

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<v Speaker 2>and Laura and Nora and my cousin Stevie and Kim

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<v Speaker 2>and their daughters. Because Anna is the biggest fan of

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<v Speaker 2>Dolly and she basically has been talking about would you

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<v Speaker 2>go with me if I went to Dollywood? And we're

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<v Speaker 2>all like, hell, yes, we'll go, and we finally did it.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it like a not Sperry Farm or is it

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<v Speaker 1>more like a Disneyland?

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<v Speaker 2>I would say it's like right in between the two. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>so I was it's so funny you asked that because

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<v Speaker 2>I was anticipating nots Berry Farm and maybe down.

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<v Speaker 1>Just so everyone knows, not Sperry Farm is like the

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<v Speaker 1>southern California like mom and pop amusement park. So think

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<v Speaker 1>of it as like your local amusement park, which is

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<v Speaker 1>like charming and cute but a little jankie.

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<v Speaker 3>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's like because it's farm based.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's like like a state fair exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>They're doing kind of the hometowny vibe where it's like

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<v Speaker 2>this used to be a berry farm, right, Like he's

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<v Speaker 2>maybe a little politically incorrect maybe, yeah, but no, Dollywood

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<v Speaker 2>is classy, it's home amazing, the food everybody get you

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<v Speaker 2>to oh my god. Well every morning we had the

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<v Speaker 2>breakfast buffet with some of the loveliest weight staff, the

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<v Speaker 2>people that work there. They're going to say loveliest waffles

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<v Speaker 2>and it was so beautiful biscuits, I mean they were there,

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<v Speaker 2>everything was cooked perfectly. Yeah, Nora had all kinds of

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<v Speaker 2>gluten free choices amazing, and the staff were like of

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<v Speaker 2>course because my cousin Stevie was a waiter and ran

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<v Speaker 2>restaurants and stuff, so he's immediately sassing with the waitresses

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<v Speaker 2>who are immediately sassing back. And it was just the

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<v Speaker 2>most wholesome, like what we kept talking about walking around

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<v Speaker 2>in the park, big roller coasters, fun roller coasters. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>Dolly retrospective where we walked through and spoiler alert if

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<v Speaker 2>you're going to go and you don't want to ruin

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<v Speaker 2>for you, But through the retrospective, you come around a

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<v Speaker 2>corner and I don't know if you've ever heard Dolly

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<v Speaker 2>Parton's song Coat of Many Colors, which is about her

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<v Speaker 2>mom making her the most beautiful coat in the world

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<v Speaker 2>and she goes to school and they're like, yeah, poor,

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<v Speaker 2>you come around a corner. The fucking Coat of Many

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<v Speaker 2>Colors is behind glass. So if you grew up in

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<v Speaker 2>like in the seventies, yeah, Dolly Parton was everywhere all

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<v Speaker 2>the time. Is that country music trend that basically happened

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<v Speaker 2>on AM radio And she was everywhere, her and Kenny

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<v Speaker 2>Rogers and everybody. But the Cot of Many Colors was

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<v Speaker 2>like so down deep that it wasn't even like a thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't even think about it. But we come around

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<v Speaker 2>this corner, my sister and I are just like like

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<v Speaker 2>immediately start crying wow, because my sister turns and goes,

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<v Speaker 2>it's the coat of it's actually the little girl's coat.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the little girl's coat.

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<v Speaker 1>And does she still have that?

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<v Speaker 2>That's beautiful. That's the lobby of the resort. We stayed

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<v Speaker 2>at Heart Song the Smoky Mountains, which my sister I

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<v Speaker 2>met them. They were there longer than me. My sister said,

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<v Speaker 2>this Smoky Mountains are some of the most beautiful nature

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<v Speaker 2>she's ever seen. I want to go when the leaves turn. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like every single tree.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. Can we ask Dolly if we can do a

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<v Speaker 1>live show at Dollywood? Do they have an amphitheater?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes they do.

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<v Speaker 3>We imagine Dolly's nieces do a live show, her relatives

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<v Speaker 3>do a live music review of her music and other hits.

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<v Speaker 3>And they were fucking great. It was like a one

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<v Speaker 3>o'clock show. And I was like every song, I was

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<v Speaker 3>clapping my ass off because I was like, they're busting

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<v Speaker 3>their asses.

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<v Speaker 1>My favorite murderer residency at Dollywood.

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<v Speaker 2>Get out of town. But we need to go where

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<v Speaker 2>the coat of Many Colors is. I'd wear that wright,

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<v Speaker 2>it would go perfectly with what you have on right

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<v Speaker 2>I do you think I would wear that? But also,

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<v Speaker 2>isn't it beautiful?

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<v Speaker 1>Scourgeous? It's the cutest thing.

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<v Speaker 2>It doesn't matter because my sister doesn't watch this show,

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<v Speaker 2>but I was like, I think I'm gonna try to

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<v Speaker 2>sew her a coat of many colors for Christmas.

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<v Speaker 1>Her do it?

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<v Speaker 2>Uh huh. We're just like here here you can have

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<v Speaker 2>your own either that or to have someone paint it

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<v Speaker 2>and do a little painting of it.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, Murderinos, do you paint? Oh my god, like a

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<v Speaker 1>little little still life of just the coat would be

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<v Speaker 1>so cute.

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<v Speaker 2>Coming around a corner and seeing your childhood.

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<v Speaker 1>And knowing Murderinos like, it's the artist who uses cat hair.

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<v Speaker 2>It's gonna make the most beautiful because that's how talented

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<v Speaker 2>our fucking listeners are. They're gonna use something random like

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<v Speaker 2>only using diet coat cans. Yeah, they're gonna make it

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<v Speaker 2>the most beautiful because that's their thing and that's what

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<v Speaker 2>they do, nail clippings. Whenever you can come up with.

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<v Speaker 2>We would love to see it. We would but highly

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<v Speaker 2>recommend Dollywood. Every employee was lovely, amazing. The experience was

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<v Speaker 2>just like we were just like.

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<v Speaker 1>What a great summer trip. Yeah, I love that and

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<v Speaker 1>great merch amazing?

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<v Speaker 2>Would you do this weekend?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh I'm not drinking so nothing?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh are you white knuckle in it?

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<v Speaker 1>Over five weeks dude, the longest I've gone in decade

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<v Speaker 1>and more.

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<v Speaker 2>How do you feel good? Of course? Duh? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, turns out what do you do and instead reading?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just reading?

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<v Speaker 2>Are you really? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>I went to I madevens going to dinner with me

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<v Speaker 1>to like, you know, like, this isn't non alcoholic dinner,

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<v Speaker 1>let's try it. And I was just like the whole time,

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<v Speaker 1>fucking this isn't fun with aud a martini yet, but

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<v Speaker 1>it will be right.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's just have it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, totally.

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<v Speaker 2>Have you heard of or read the book Yesteryear.

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<v Speaker 1>I told you to read that book?

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<v Speaker 2>God damn it.

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<v Speaker 1>Well I told you like two weeks I gotta read them,

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<v Speaker 1>like sorry, it's.

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<v Speaker 2>Okod Well I didn't. I haven't started, but everybody on

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<v Speaker 2>the trip had a copy. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so fucking good.

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<v Speaker 2>I will always do that to you because you always

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<v Speaker 2>tell me to read things and I just don't.

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<v Speaker 1>The audiobook is really good, okay, yeah, oh good check

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<v Speaker 1>it out.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm very excited about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Love it. It's the book of the summer.

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<v Speaker 2>Everybody's talking about trad wive regret, the whole.

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<v Speaker 1>Thing of like, why are there no grown dradwives because

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<v Speaker 1>women of a certain age can't fucking handle that shit

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<v Speaker 1>no more.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean the pure labor of being a wife and

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<v Speaker 2>mother mental labor, physical labor, emotional labor, and then basically

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<v Speaker 2>volunteering to do it alone. Yeah, wow, tough.

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<v Speaker 1>No, oh, do you have a true crime update?

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<v Speaker 2>There is a true crime update, but it's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>a weird one, okay, And it's around the murders of

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<v Speaker 2>this Fort University of Idaho students. Yeah, Madison Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalvez,

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<v Speaker 2>Ethan Schapin, and Xanner Kernodle. Brian Coberger, who is convicted

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<v Speaker 2>of all four murderers last year, is now wants to

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<v Speaker 2>rescind his guilty please and get a new trial. I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't hear that he claims he's innocent and that he

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<v Speaker 2>was misled into confessing. They don't know if that's actually

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<v Speaker 2>going to take place, but that's something he's petitioning for

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<v Speaker 2>right now.

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<v Speaker 1>I was so happy that that fucking monster was just

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<v Speaker 1>going to go away and we didn't have to look

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<v Speaker 1>at him anymore? Right, But here we go. Yeah that sucks.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we'll see what actually happens because people have the

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<v Speaker 2>right to put that out there if they want to,

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<v Speaker 2>and then they'll see who picks it up and what

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<v Speaker 2>it actually means totally.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Well should we get into it?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes? Should we talk about our network?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes? So we have a network. It's called exactly right media.

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<v Speaker 1>Go listen to all our podcasts on it. There's so

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<v Speaker 1>many good ones.

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<v Speaker 2>They're right out there for you.

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<v Speaker 1>Please. Here's some highlights this.

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<v Speaker 2>Week over on Ghosted. What's very exciting is the host

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<v Speaker 2>ros Hernandez has a new audio book out called Peeing

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<v Speaker 2>in an Empty Bottle. It's about her life on the

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<v Speaker 2>road as a stand up comic. So you can go

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<v Speaker 2>listen to an excerpt of that on her feed over

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<v Speaker 2>on the Ghosted feed. If you like it, you can

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<v Speaker 2>get the full audiobook available wherever you by your audio books.

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<v Speaker 1>I love it. Our newest limited series, Royal Swindle, Episode four,

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<v Speaker 1>Good Cop, Bad Cop, is out now. Detective Jim Frost

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<v Speaker 1>closes in on Evelyn and Layla as more of their

0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.280
<v Speaker 1>past comes to light. But just when it looks like

0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:16.480
<v Speaker 1>they're cornered, their loyal butler, Lars steps in.

0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:20.040
<v Speaker 2>They're loyal butler, Lars. This is the level of insanity

0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.280
<v Speaker 2>this podcast gets too. And we're only on episode four.

0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:24.400
<v Speaker 1>It's amazing, We're.

0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:27.960
<v Speaker 2>Only halfway through, Lars. It's the craziest and roll Swindle's

0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.360
<v Speaker 2>doing amazing on the charts. Thank you guys so much

0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:33.080
<v Speaker 2>for supporting and downloading and listening and all of that,

0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:35.880
<v Speaker 2>because it's going like gangbusters. Yeah. Also, if you've ever

0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.719
<v Speaker 2>dreamed of solving crimes at sea, which we know you have,

0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:42.439
<v Speaker 2>you're a murdering no Buried Bones and Disgraceland are heading

0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:46.600
<v Speaker 2>aboard Virgin Voyage's True Crime Voyage this coming March. Bookings

0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.880
<v Speaker 2>are open now at virgin voyages dot com. How badly

0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:51.640
<v Speaker 2>do you want to just go on a cruise and

0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:55.320
<v Speaker 2>have a drink with Jake Brennan, fucking Paul Holes and

0:10:55.480 --> 0:11:00.000
<v Speaker 2>Kate and just just chop it up about facts and evidence.

0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:04.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's so that sounds like my dream? Yeah, it really?

0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:05.320
<v Speaker 2>Do you want to go?

0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:07.679
<v Speaker 1>I get your ticket? I want to go. And then

0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.280
<v Speaker 1>in merch corner, we still have a handful of proclensity

0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.360
<v Speaker 1>items left. You have to check them out. Go to

0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:16.439
<v Speaker 1>exactly rightstore dot com before they disappear for good.

0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.360
<v Speaker 2>Haven't you ever wanted to wear merch of your favorite

0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:23.280
<v Speaker 2>psychiatric drug? Yeah, well now you can with proclensity, which

0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:25.360
<v Speaker 2>is a word Georgia made up. It seems like something

0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:27.920
<v Speaker 2>you'd run in a five k like and then at

0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:33.120
<v Speaker 2>the end of the five k like they'd hand out merchlesity. Yeah,

0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:35.920
<v Speaker 2>and like pro cleansity merch Yep, that's just what it

0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.200
<v Speaker 2>makes me to go. We're also selling those silver blankets

0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:42.280
<v Speaker 2>that you can wrap around your shoulders. Also, tomorrow, we've

0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:44.240
<v Speaker 2>got a little treat for you because, in partnership with

0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.040
<v Speaker 2>cars dot com, we're going to be releasing a bonus

0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:51.920
<v Speaker 2>episode for you where we give listeners advice that was chaotic.

0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:54.040
<v Speaker 2>This is absolutely insane.

0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:56.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm so fun And speaking of that, we cannot stress

0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:58.840
<v Speaker 1>enough that we're in no way equipped or certified to

0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:00.960
<v Speaker 1>be giving anyone advice, So please take that advice at

0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.320
<v Speaker 1>your own risk. Watch the full video of us leading

0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:06.840
<v Speaker 1>the public astray exclusively on the fan Cult at fancult

0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:10.880
<v Speaker 1>dot supercast dot com. Yeah, the end and the end,

0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:17.439
<v Speaker 1>and I'm first, that's right. This one has a mystery

0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:22.280
<v Speaker 1>element to it, which I know you hate cold case.

0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:23.200
<v Speaker 2>I hate cold case.

0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:26.240
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I wouldn't call it that, although I guess

0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:27.880
<v Speaker 1>technically it's not.

0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:28.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay.

0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:32.880
<v Speaker 1>So it's April nineteen sixty four, right when this dress

0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:36.640
<v Speaker 1>was made, and we're at Michael Rhys's Hospital on the

0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.920
<v Speaker 1>near south side of Chicago. So we're at this maternity

0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:43.720
<v Speaker 1>ward nineteen sixty four April. Dora Franzac is happily feeding

0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.480
<v Speaker 1>her two day old baby, a boy, her first child,

0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:50.040
<v Speaker 1>named Paul. Her husband Chester has to return to work

0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.160
<v Speaker 1>at the factory where he's a machinist, but he's planning

0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:54.640
<v Speaker 1>to come back to the hospital that evening. They're so

0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.160
<v Speaker 1>thrilled at their first baby, and that day at work,

0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:00.640
<v Speaker 1>he's proudly handing out cigars to all his colleagues. Is

0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.400
<v Speaker 1>feeding the baby. A nurse walks into the room. She

0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:06.400
<v Speaker 1>doesn't say anything, and Dora and her roommate both think

0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:08.679
<v Speaker 1>it's a little odd, but all she does is lit

0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.800
<v Speaker 1>the blue blanket away from baby Paul's face and look

0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.000
<v Speaker 1>at him for a long moment, and then she walks out.

0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.679
<v Speaker 1>But a half hour later she's back, and she tells

0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:20.720
<v Speaker 1>Dora that the pediatrician would like to examine the baby

0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:24.960
<v Speaker 1>and Dora hands over her brand new baby Paul, and

0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.000
<v Speaker 1>it's the last time she'll ever see her newborn. This

0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:32.360
<v Speaker 1>is the story of the Paul Franzac triple disappearance. Oh

0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:33.200
<v Speaker 1>do you know this one?

0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I've heard stories of the babies that have

0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.040
<v Speaker 2>been taken or you know, yeah whatever, but now I

0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:39.920
<v Speaker 2>don't know what it is.

0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.520
<v Speaker 1>Get ready. The main source for this book is the

0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:46.280
<v Speaker 1>book The Foundling by Paul Franzac, he.

0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:47.120
<v Speaker 2>Wrote about himself.

0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:49.600
<v Speaker 1>But we'll get into it, okay. So a student nurse

0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:52.800
<v Speaker 1>sees this woman dressed as a nurse, walking out with

0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:56.439
<v Speaker 1>this brand new baby into the stairwell. She doesn't recognize

0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.040
<v Speaker 1>the nurse, and she knows that this is not usual protocol.

0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.640
<v Speaker 1>Probably because she's a student and doesn't feel empowered to

0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:04.880
<v Speaker 1>run up to a nurse who seems more senior than her.

0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:08.240
<v Speaker 1>She doesn't say anything to the nurse. Instead, she alerts

0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.760
<v Speaker 1>her supervisor. They rushed to the nursery and realize that

0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:15.439
<v Speaker 1>baby Paul is missing. At that point, no one can

0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.120
<v Speaker 1>locate this mysterious woman and the baby. Even though they

0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:22.000
<v Speaker 1>like acted immediately, there was no delay, you know. The

0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.920
<v Speaker 1>hospital staff try and successfully for two hours to find

0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:27.560
<v Speaker 1>Paul and the nurse, and then they call Chester at

0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.760
<v Speaker 1>work and tell him what had happened. He has to

0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.320
<v Speaker 1>break the heartbreaking news to Dora there in her hospital

0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.560
<v Speaker 1>bed while hundreds of police and FBI officers descend upon

0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:38.280
<v Speaker 1>the neighborhood.

0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.040
<v Speaker 2>H Hey, they should have had to go in and

0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.160
<v Speaker 2>break the news. Yeah, oh yeah, I mean maybe not,

0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.280
<v Speaker 2>though maybe he wanted to, because it's like coming from someone,

0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:50.360
<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean, Yes, someone personal, and it's

0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.560
<v Speaker 2>not yeah, someone that's going to be weird and cold

0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:56.120
<v Speaker 2>and clinical about it, right, But god, I know, God.

0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:59.720
<v Speaker 1>All the figure out is this. The woman had hailed

0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.600
<v Speaker 1>a cat on the street behind the hospital. The driver

0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.440
<v Speaker 1>said he had driven her west away from the Lakefront

0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.560
<v Speaker 1>where the hospital is, to thirty fifth Street and Halstead Avenue,

0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.840
<v Speaker 1>about a ten minute ride. Then she had gotten out,

0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.320
<v Speaker 1>and despite conducting hundreds of interviews and searching hundreds of

0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.240
<v Speaker 1>buildings and homes, investigators never uncover any leads about where

0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.920
<v Speaker 1>the woman took Paul next. And here's a sketch of

0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.080
<v Speaker 1>what she looked like based on the people who saw her.

0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.560
<v Speaker 1>So it's just so vague. Woman wearing a nurse's uniform.

0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:34.000
<v Speaker 2>Do you think that kind of looks like me, that's my.

0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:36.400
<v Speaker 1>Haircut, it's not your baby.

0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:41.280
<v Speaker 2>When I'm like a little stressed out. Wait a second,

0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.280
<v Speaker 2>what wait Karen, Wait, what are we going to do?

0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I'm sorry. I kind of long for

0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:47.960
<v Speaker 2>the days first of all, when we used to have

0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.800
<v Speaker 2>newspapers and journalism, but that idea where it's kind of like, hey,

0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:54.240
<v Speaker 2>have you seen this person? Imagine the kind of things

0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.960
<v Speaker 2>that aren't getting out there and getting communicated and circulated.

0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:02.320
<v Speaker 2>Because although to say and TikTok's going crazy for it,

0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:04.640
<v Speaker 2>Nancy Grace is back in a big way.

0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:05.800
<v Speaker 1>Really, yes she is.

0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.040
<v Speaker 2>She's taking up the Nolan Wells case like herself.

0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.800
<v Speaker 1>I didn't see that. Yes, I mean I've seen the

0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.920
<v Speaker 1>case and it's just awful, but I didn't know she

0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:15.760
<v Speaker 1>was getting into it.

0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:20.240
<v Speaker 2>She's getting people from like the local you know, officials,

0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:22.360
<v Speaker 2>and getting them on the show and then just being

0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:25.720
<v Speaker 2>way confrontational about you know, that doesn't seem right to me.

0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.920
<v Speaker 2>And her fucking eyebrows are as arched as ever. I mean, yeah,

0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:31.960
<v Speaker 2>it's a real return to form and that it's crazy.

0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:33.360
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's great for that.

0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:35.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's it's she's doing something.

0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, Nancy, we see you.

0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:39.960
<v Speaker 1>So at the time when this in nineteen sixty four,

0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:42.840
<v Speaker 1>it had not yet been hospital policy to take fingerprints

0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:46.200
<v Speaker 1>and footprints for new babies. So the only tangible information

0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:49.320
<v Speaker 1>the police have on file is the one photo of

0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:51.720
<v Speaker 1>Paul that was taken right after he was born. They

0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:55.360
<v Speaker 1>took a snapshot, and that's it. That photo is released

0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.520
<v Speaker 1>to the press as well as those sketches of the

0:16:57.560 --> 0:16:59.880
<v Speaker 1>woman who took him. So here's his photo. Is a

0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:05.480
<v Speaker 1>little baby, I know, just tiny, just two days.

0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.040
<v Speaker 2>Old, I mean tiny, but all that hair.

0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:09.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, good thing they had that photo.

0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:10.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah for real.

0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:12.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh it's so cute. The Franz Acts make a few

0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.920
<v Speaker 1>desperate pleas to the press, begging for their baby back,

0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:18.880
<v Speaker 1>but heartbreaking ly, in those statements, they ask for him

0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:22.399
<v Speaker 1>to be well cared for. Dora tells a reporter, quote,

0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:24.160
<v Speaker 1>take good care of him and see that he gets

0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:26.840
<v Speaker 1>enough to eat. He's everything we built our hopes on

0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:29.439
<v Speaker 1>for the future. Just so he is taken care of.

0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:32.399
<v Speaker 1>That's the main thing. So he's just hoping that whoever

0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.520
<v Speaker 1>kidnapped him was doing so to, you know, just to

0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:37.440
<v Speaker 1>have a baby. Yeah. And so here's a photo of

0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.600
<v Speaker 1>the two of them in the newspaper with the plea

0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:43.959
<v Speaker 1>she's in a wheelchair. She just looks devastated. I mean,

0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:45.000
<v Speaker 1>look at their faces.

0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:49.760
<v Speaker 2>It's just such a bizarre crime and such a bizarre situation.

0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:51.160
<v Speaker 1>And not something you'd expect in a hospital. You think

0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:55.640
<v Speaker 1>you're totally safe there. Yeah. So similarly, Paul's doctors give

0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.399
<v Speaker 1>detailed instructions to the press about how he should be

0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.080
<v Speaker 1>cared for and how his formula should be prepared because

0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.679
<v Speaker 1>they suspect he might have a cow's milk allergy. So

0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:06.720
<v Speaker 1>they're just hoping that it's someone who wants to take

0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:08.600
<v Speaker 1>care of him, and over the next two years, the

0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:12.440
<v Speaker 1>case goes completely cold. Then in June of nineteen sixty six,

0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:16.120
<v Speaker 1>two years and two months after Paul's birth and disappearance,

0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:19.280
<v Speaker 1>the Franzacs get the call they've been praying for every

0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:19.840
<v Speaker 1>single day.

0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:22.960
<v Speaker 2>A two year old boy has been found in New Jersey,

0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:27.199
<v Speaker 2>and authorities believe he might be Paul. So rewind the

0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.919
<v Speaker 2>boy had been left a year earlier, in nineteen sixty

0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:33.040
<v Speaker 2>five and a brand new stroller outside a department store

0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.680
<v Speaker 2>in Newark. He had been dressed in a clean, bright

0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.040
<v Speaker 2>blue suit, and the stroller, and the little boy had

0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:40.520
<v Speaker 2>sat unattended in front of the store for two hours

0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:42.400
<v Speaker 2>until people realize there's.

0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.000
<v Speaker 1>No parents with him. Then at five pm, an anonymous

0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:48.320
<v Speaker 1>caller phones the Newark Police and tells him about the child.

0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.719
<v Speaker 1>The child is designated a foundling, a term for an

0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:54.439
<v Speaker 1>a pan of baby whose origins are unknown, which is like,

0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:56.480
<v Speaker 1>gives you chills. The word the foundling. It sounds like

0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:58.880
<v Speaker 1>a horror movie. Yeah, he does that one movie with

0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:00.760
<v Speaker 1>Angelina Jolie. That's so good.

0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.040
<v Speaker 2>The baby it turns around and I just sangs, it

0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:06.200
<v Speaker 2>has full set of teeth, little a mustache.

0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:08.520
<v Speaker 1>I think the movie you're thinking of as a changeling.

0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:09.639
<v Speaker 2>I did love that movie.

0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:11.879
<v Speaker 1>I meant the changeling. Thank you, Molly, Yes, yes, I

0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:13.480
<v Speaker 1>love that movie was so good and it was based

0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:14.840
<v Speaker 1>on the true story that I think you covered.

0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.320
<v Speaker 2>I covered it and it's so upsetting and it is

0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.600
<v Speaker 2>That movie is the worst nightmare of any parent going

0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:24.879
<v Speaker 2>through this, where it's like, oh, some absolute lunatic is

0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:28.080
<v Speaker 2>keeping children in chicken coop out in the country.

0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:29.840
<v Speaker 1>She's put it an insane asylum.

0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:32.159
<v Speaker 2>Yes, because nobody wants to hear a lady be like

0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:33.119
<v Speaker 2>you guys, fuck this up.

0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:34.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, you guys go watch the change.

0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:38.520
<v Speaker 2>Watch it, my son. That's my favorite line.

0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:40.760
<v Speaker 1>I don't remember that line from it.

0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.000
<v Speaker 2>She screams my son about nineteen times. We could have

0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:46.000
<v Speaker 2>edited this down a little bit, I think.

0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.119
<v Speaker 1>So he's a foundling. The police run ads in the

0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:51.720
<v Speaker 1>local papers about the foundling to be like, does anyone

0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:54.280
<v Speaker 1>in whose baby this is? And no one comes forward.

0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:56.760
<v Speaker 1>So he's brought to live with a foster family in

0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:01.119
<v Speaker 1>watching New Jersey. And he's a playful little boy. He

0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:02.840
<v Speaker 1>has a good appetite. He loves to swim in the

0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:05.880
<v Speaker 1>family's pool and help with grown up tasks like unloading

0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:09.520
<v Speaker 1>the groceries. The only times he seems fearful or upset

0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:12.239
<v Speaker 1>is when a young man suddenly enters the room, and

0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:15.440
<v Speaker 1>this causes him to cower in fear and sob which

0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:17.880
<v Speaker 1>makes the family who were watching him believe he's been

0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:20.520
<v Speaker 1>abused by a young man. Here's a photo of the

0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.440
<v Speaker 1>little boy with the nurse. He is so freaking cute.

0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:25.600
<v Speaker 2>My god, he's so cute, I know. And he looks

0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:26.680
<v Speaker 2>a lot like that baby.

0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:28.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean that looks like my nephew Micah. So

0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:29.680
<v Speaker 1>much to me too.

0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:32.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he looks like a perfect two year progression from that.

0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:37.280
<v Speaker 1>Total baby totally. The little boy's speech develops normally over

0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.040
<v Speaker 1>the year he spends in foster care. Sometimes he playfully

0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:42.679
<v Speaker 1>puts up his fists and says, want a box. But

0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:46.120
<v Speaker 1>he's gentle with the littler babies in the home. When

0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:49.159
<v Speaker 1>they cry, he comforts them, saying don't cry. When he

0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:52.239
<v Speaker 1>himself falls or hurts himself in some minor way, he

0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:56.080
<v Speaker 1>comforts himself with the same saying don't cry. So he

0:20:56.480 --> 0:21:00.359
<v Speaker 1>remembers something from before. So this woman named Claire is

0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:05.120
<v Speaker 1>the foster mom who cares for this little toddler, saying quote,

0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:07.720
<v Speaker 1>he is one of the most perfect boys I've ever known.

0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:10.679
<v Speaker 1>He has charmed all of us with his dearness and

0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:14.000
<v Speaker 1>kind little ways. He has such a great love of life,

0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:16.399
<v Speaker 1>and he has made us aware of so many things.

0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:19.399
<v Speaker 1>He was my special baby. End quote.

0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:23.360
<v Speaker 2>Also, God bless the foster parents who are actually doing it,

0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:25.600
<v Speaker 2>totally doing it right, totally for real.

0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:28.119
<v Speaker 1>It's such an incredible act.

0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:28.680
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:30.760
<v Speaker 1>When the baby had been found, the detective in Newark

0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:33.320
<v Speaker 1>had alerted the FBI, and for the year that he

0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:35.960
<v Speaker 1>spends in foster care, the FBI are in and out

0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:39.080
<v Speaker 1>checking on him. They take molds of his ears, they

0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:42.960
<v Speaker 1>take blood samples, they take hair samples to see if

0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:46.240
<v Speaker 1>the baby is little Paul Franzac. They do this same

0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.640
<v Speaker 1>thing to thousands of other little boys around the country

0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:53.440
<v Speaker 1>hoping to find Paul, but they don't find anything. And

0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.240
<v Speaker 1>we got an email from a murder reino, which I'll

0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:58.000
<v Speaker 1>read in full at some point because it's really interesting.

0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.119
<v Speaker 1>I'll read it on a hometown in the future. But

0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:02.800
<v Speaker 1>it says this quote. My dad was born and adopted

0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:05.439
<v Speaker 1>on April twenty fourth, nineteen sixty four by my grandparents.

0:22:05.520 --> 0:22:09.120
<v Speaker 1>On that same day, Paul Joseph Franzac was stolen from

0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:12.159
<v Speaker 1>a Chicago hospital by a woman dressed as a nurse.

0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:15.200
<v Speaker 1>So her dad is born the same day and adopted

0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:15.800
<v Speaker 1>in Chicago.

0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:16.760
<v Speaker 2>That's wild.

0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:18.719
<v Speaker 1>She goes on to say the FBI tested and examined

0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:21.320
<v Speaker 1>over ten thousand babies, one of which was my dad.

0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:24.000
<v Speaker 1>They came back multiple times to examine my dad and

0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:27.200
<v Speaker 1>took multiple hair and blood samples. The authorities were highly

0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:31.040
<v Speaker 1>suspicious of my grandparents, as they weren't my dad's biological parents,

0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:34.880
<v Speaker 1>and their lawyer was under suspicion of black market adoptions.

0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:38.320
<v Speaker 1>Oh and then she writes, uh, okay, And that's just

0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:41.000
<v Speaker 1>an excerpt that's from Ali. The whole emails really great.

0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:43.040
<v Speaker 1>I'll read at some point, but like, what are the

0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:45.879
<v Speaker 1>chances that I'm Murderina? Who listens one of those babies

0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:46.640
<v Speaker 1>is her dad.

0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:50.560
<v Speaker 2>On the exact same day, Like that adopted too, that's wild.

0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:53.280
<v Speaker 2>What did they collect from babies who were just born

0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:55.480
<v Speaker 2>that they would be able to test it against back then?

0:22:55.840 --> 0:22:59.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Nothing, okay. So by March of nineteen sixty six,

0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:02.240
<v Speaker 1>when baby is just about two years old, they conclude

0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:04.440
<v Speaker 1>that they can't definitively say that the baby is Paul,

0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:07.120
<v Speaker 1>this little baby in foster care, but they also can't

0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:08.880
<v Speaker 1>rule it out. And of all the little boys who

0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:11.160
<v Speaker 1>have been tested, this is the only time that they

0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:14.320
<v Speaker 1>are kind of like it might be him. So in

0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:16.840
<v Speaker 1>June of nineteen sixty six, the FBI makes the call

0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:19.639
<v Speaker 1>to the franz Acs. Authorities believe the baby looks like

0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:22.480
<v Speaker 1>Dora and Chester franz Ac, and when the couple arrive

0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:26.240
<v Speaker 1>in New Jersey to meet him, they believe it's their son.

0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:30.119
<v Speaker 1>Dora cries out, oh my god, that's my baby. I

0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:33.119
<v Speaker 1>know it's a joyous ending for everyone, though perhaps a

0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:36.960
<v Speaker 1>little bittersweet for the Claire Eckert, the foster mother. She'd

0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:39.760
<v Speaker 1>given the little boy the name Scott, and she writes

0:23:39.800 --> 0:23:43.080
<v Speaker 1>a letter to Dora saying, quote, for all this sadness

0:23:43.119 --> 0:23:46.360
<v Speaker 1>you have both known, you are in for so much joy,

0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:49.640
<v Speaker 1>for you will now see things through Scott's eyes and

0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:53.120
<v Speaker 1>he can make them lovely. I know it's not touching.

0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So Scott becomes Paul, the baby that had been kidnapped,

0:23:57.000 --> 0:23:59.160
<v Speaker 2>that they had lost, and life goes on and Paul

0:23:59.200 --> 0:24:01.520
<v Speaker 2>lives a normal life in a working class neighborhood on

0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:02.600
<v Speaker 2>the South side of Chicago.

0:24:03.280 --> 0:24:05.760
<v Speaker 1>He's never told about the first two years of his life.

0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:10.280
<v Speaker 2>That's very VC Andrews of those parents, like what I mean.

0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:12.760
<v Speaker 1>I saw the abuse and incest, r yes.

0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:15.480
<v Speaker 2>And creepy addicts and stuff. But I mean it makes

0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:18.440
<v Speaker 2>sense that he's too young anyway at a total time.

0:24:18.680 --> 0:24:21.159
<v Speaker 2>But that was you know, that feels like back in

0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:22.720
<v Speaker 2>the time where it's like, oh, it's fine if he

0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:25.960
<v Speaker 2>never knows about, right, his real origins.

0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:27.560
<v Speaker 1>And maybe so he's still a kid at this point,

0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:29.080
<v Speaker 1>so maybe they would have told him when he's older.

0:24:29.119 --> 0:24:30.959
<v Speaker 1>How is the kid going to wrap their head around that.

0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:33.720
<v Speaker 2>Sit down and just deal with it. Just like, face

0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:34.120
<v Speaker 2>it straight.

0:24:34.280 --> 0:24:36.080
<v Speaker 1>You're a child, you're in a little adult right.

0:24:36.240 --> 0:24:37.760
<v Speaker 2>This is going to fuck up third grade for you.

0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:39.639
<v Speaker 2>But just try to wrap your mind.

0:24:39.359 --> 0:24:43.199
<v Speaker 1>Around imagine this. Okay, So Dora had been pregnant when

0:24:43.240 --> 0:24:46.040
<v Speaker 1>authorities told the frans Acts that they thought they had

0:24:46.080 --> 0:24:49.440
<v Speaker 1>found Paul. So Paul comes home and just six months later,

0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:52.560
<v Speaker 1>his little brother Dave is born. So like, what a

0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:56.080
<v Speaker 1>mind fuck? Yeah for those parents, especially right in December

0:24:56.119 --> 0:24:59.159
<v Speaker 1>of nineteen seventy four, when Paul is ten, he starts

0:24:59.200 --> 0:25:01.679
<v Speaker 1>snooping around the house like we all did, looking for

0:25:01.720 --> 0:25:04.720
<v Speaker 1>his Christmas presents. In the basement, he pulls a couch

0:25:04.800 --> 0:25:06.480
<v Speaker 1>away from the wall. You always got to boop with

0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:06.960
<v Speaker 1>the furniture.

0:25:07.240 --> 0:25:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, that's right.

0:25:08.920 --> 0:25:12.160
<v Speaker 1>He exposes a little curl space behind it and he

0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:15.520
<v Speaker 1>shimmeys in and against the back wall. Hidden behind some

0:25:15.600 --> 0:25:18.840
<v Speaker 1>frame paintings are three shoe boxes and a hat box.

0:25:19.280 --> 0:25:20.640
<v Speaker 1>Oh to find.

0:25:20.320 --> 0:25:23.239
<v Speaker 2>Those, to move something and be like these have been

0:25:23.320 --> 0:25:24.360
<v Speaker 2>hidden here totally.

0:25:24.400 --> 0:25:27.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I found my grandma's and my grandpa's love letters

0:25:27.040 --> 0:25:31.320
<v Speaker 1>to each other before they were married. Snooping, So sorry, Grandma.

0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:34.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, here's the thing all people should realize. Little kids

0:25:34.200 --> 0:25:36.080
<v Speaker 2>snoop right, if you're not there, they're going to go

0:25:36.080 --> 0:25:39.000
<v Speaker 2>through your night stand hours totally, that's just a way

0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:41.080
<v Speaker 2>to pass the time. Don't keep your gross stuff in

0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:43.439
<v Speaker 2>obvious places. Don't be such a.

0:25:43.520 --> 0:25:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Per So Paul of course opens the boxes and realizes

0:25:47.160 --> 0:25:49.920
<v Speaker 1>they're full of newspaper clippings and letters, and he pulls

0:25:49.920 --> 0:25:51.840
<v Speaker 1>out a clipping and sees a picture of a newborn

0:25:52.200 --> 0:25:55.479
<v Speaker 1>and a picture from his parents ten years younger. That photo,

0:25:55.600 --> 0:25:59.160
<v Speaker 1>he recognizes them and they're devastated, and the letters are

0:25:59.200 --> 0:26:01.840
<v Speaker 1>all from wells and people who had been praying for

0:26:01.880 --> 0:26:05.840
<v Speaker 1>the Franz acts. So Paul realizes that he's this baby.

0:26:05.920 --> 0:26:08.160
<v Speaker 1>He goes into the kitchen to the mom, like what

0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:12.199
<v Speaker 1>the hell. She gets angry at him for snooping, and

0:26:12.240 --> 0:26:14.760
<v Speaker 1>he's like, okay, but what you did is worse. What

0:26:14.800 --> 0:26:17.399
<v Speaker 1>the hell's going on? And he asked if those articles

0:26:17.400 --> 0:26:19.680
<v Speaker 1>are about him, and she says, quote, yes, those are

0:26:19.720 --> 0:26:22.719
<v Speaker 1>about you. You were kidnapped, we found you, we love you,

0:26:23.000 --> 0:26:27.480
<v Speaker 1>and that is all there is to know. End quote. Okay, mom, okay, mom,

0:26:28.040 --> 0:26:31.040
<v Speaker 1>go watch TV. Of course, that's not all there is

0:26:31.080 --> 0:26:32.919
<v Speaker 1>to know, and Paul pretty much lives the rest of

0:26:32.920 --> 0:26:35.840
<v Speaker 1>his childhood and much of his adult life wondering if

0:26:35.880 --> 0:26:38.760
<v Speaker 1>he really is his parents missing baby, or if he

0:26:38.960 --> 0:26:41.080
<v Speaker 1>was for the first two years of his life someone else.

0:26:41.160 --> 0:26:43.399
<v Speaker 1>And while Paul does love his family, he says he

0:26:43.440 --> 0:26:46.080
<v Speaker 1>always feels a bit distant from them, and he had

0:26:46.080 --> 0:26:49.480
<v Speaker 1>felt that even before discovering all these newspaper clippings and

0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:52.679
<v Speaker 1>finding out the truth. He says, he's always had this

0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:56.360
<v Speaker 1>underlying suspicion that he's an outsider to his family, which

0:26:56.440 --> 0:26:58.920
<v Speaker 1>I wish I felt that way too. I find those

0:26:58.960 --> 0:27:02.679
<v Speaker 1>motherfuckers are my blood and I know that.

0:27:03.000 --> 0:27:05.720
<v Speaker 2>You say something, Janet says, Yeah, it's like I.

0:27:05.760 --> 0:27:07.159
<v Speaker 1>See where I got all my problems, right.

0:27:07.200 --> 0:27:09.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean it's also interesting because I wonder if he

0:27:09.600 --> 0:27:12.240
<v Speaker 2>would always feel that, no matter if he was flesh

0:27:12.240 --> 0:27:15.040
<v Speaker 2>and bleashure because of the right, Like, even if it

0:27:15.520 --> 0:27:18.640
<v Speaker 2>turned out to be true, it just, yeah, those kind

0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:21.560
<v Speaker 2>of foundational years he was in a different place, and

0:27:21.680 --> 0:27:24.639
<v Speaker 2>that in and of itself, right, could just be creating

0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:25.160
<v Speaker 2>that fel.

0:27:25.040 --> 0:27:29.800
<v Speaker 1>No, that makes letal sense. He doesn't get a satisfactory

0:27:29.840 --> 0:27:32.919
<v Speaker 1>answer until much later in the interim he grows up.

0:27:32.960 --> 0:27:36.200
<v Speaker 1>He graduates high school, moves to Arizona, gets married, gets divorced,

0:27:36.240 --> 0:27:39.080
<v Speaker 1>works a bunch of different jobs, and never quite seems

0:27:39.080 --> 0:27:41.000
<v Speaker 1>to figure out what the right thing for him is,

0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:43.520
<v Speaker 1>as a lot of us fucking do. But at age forty,

0:27:43.640 --> 0:27:45.880
<v Speaker 1>in around two thousand and five, he decides to give

0:27:45.920 --> 0:27:49.080
<v Speaker 1>acting a try, and he actually makes a living at it.

0:27:49.280 --> 0:27:52.240
<v Speaker 1>Side note, he's fucking super handsome. Let's take a lick

0:27:52.280 --> 0:27:53.480
<v Speaker 1>at you, like, I want to tell you what it

0:27:53.480 --> 0:27:56.200
<v Speaker 1>looks like before you see it. He looks like I

0:27:56.240 --> 0:28:00.119
<v Speaker 1>think Chris Hansen and a young Keith Morrison combined, And

0:28:00.359 --> 0:28:04.280
<v Speaker 1>he looks like the perfect like twenty. He looks like

0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:06.960
<v Speaker 1>a Dateline or twenty twenty host, like he could be

0:28:06.960 --> 0:28:11.840
<v Speaker 1>telling you about his own crime. Oh so here he is, okay, hi,

0:28:12.560 --> 0:28:15.639
<v Speaker 1>hi Fox. So he's based in Las Vegas at this

0:28:15.640 --> 0:28:18.040
<v Speaker 1>point he gets a lot of commercial and print ad campaigns,

0:28:18.080 --> 0:28:20.480
<v Speaker 1>and then he gets a nice gig as George Clooney's

0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:24.240
<v Speaker 1>stand in on Ocean's eleven Nice. So like, clearly, don't

0:28:24.280 --> 0:28:27.159
<v Speaker 1>you see Chris Hansen and Keith Morris.

0:28:27.920 --> 0:28:28.920
<v Speaker 2>That's a square jaw.

0:28:29.200 --> 0:28:31.200
<v Speaker 1>So he meets a woman named Michelle and they fall

0:28:31.240 --> 0:28:33.520
<v Speaker 1>in love and get married, and then Michelle gets pregnant,

0:28:33.560 --> 0:28:35.960
<v Speaker 1>and at this point, you know, Paul is forced to

0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:38.640
<v Speaker 1>confront this question that snagged him his whole life, because

0:28:38.680 --> 0:28:41.480
<v Speaker 1>his doctors start asking him about his family's medical history.

0:28:42.040 --> 0:28:43.560
<v Speaker 1>I feel like a lot of people find out those

0:28:43.560 --> 0:28:45.320
<v Speaker 1>stories that they send us for the hometown stories.

0:28:45.400 --> 0:28:48.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like the ancestry dot com Yeah, type of curiosity

0:28:48.280 --> 0:28:49.520
<v Speaker 2>that then unravels.

0:28:49.640 --> 0:28:52.920
<v Speaker 1>Speaking of Hello, this is before the explosion of DNA

0:28:53.000 --> 0:28:56.160
<v Speaker 1>genealogy kits, but at home paternity tests are at this

0:28:56.240 --> 0:29:01.400
<v Speaker 1>point available at drugstores Maribovich, So Paul buys one, and

0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:04.000
<v Speaker 1>while his parents are in town visiting them, he asked

0:29:04.040 --> 0:29:06.520
<v Speaker 1>them to take the test, and they do, but then

0:29:06.520 --> 0:29:08.600
<v Speaker 1>they start to have regrets. They ask Paul not to

0:29:08.600 --> 0:29:10.960
<v Speaker 1>send the swabs in for testing, like, just don't we

0:29:11.000 --> 0:29:13.960
<v Speaker 1>don't even want to know. Paul agonizes over the decision

0:29:14.000 --> 0:29:16.160
<v Speaker 1>for a week, but ultimately he sends the test in,

0:29:16.880 --> 0:29:18.520
<v Speaker 1>and a few weeks later he gets to answer that

0:29:18.560 --> 0:29:20.800
<v Speaker 1>no one wants to hear. But it feels like everyone

0:29:20.880 --> 0:29:24.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of already knows Dora and Chester are not Paul's

0:29:24.560 --> 0:29:28.160
<v Speaker 1>biological parents. I know, I mean, but.

0:29:28.120 --> 0:29:30.520
<v Speaker 2>It also has to be a little bit like, hey,

0:29:30.760 --> 0:29:33.920
<v Speaker 2>at least I know I can trust my gut. Right

0:29:34.120 --> 0:29:36.080
<v Speaker 2>if I feel something and I have this instinct, then

0:29:36.120 --> 0:29:38.280
<v Speaker 2>I know there's no reason to follow it, like Limbo

0:29:38.360 --> 0:29:39.480
<v Speaker 2>is not a place to live your hoole.

0:29:40.000 --> 0:29:43.720
<v Speaker 1>Paul's parents are at first furious at him for sending

0:29:43.760 --> 0:29:47.000
<v Speaker 1>him the test, and they're devastated having their nightmare reopened

0:29:47.120 --> 0:29:50.720
<v Speaker 1>and the realization that they have no idea where their

0:29:50.800 --> 0:29:54.440
<v Speaker 1>biological son has been for more than forty years, like

0:29:54.480 --> 0:29:57.239
<v Speaker 1>they could trick themselves into thinking they had him, and

0:29:57.280 --> 0:30:01.600
<v Speaker 1>now yes, the devastation that it's all coming back coming

0:30:01.640 --> 0:30:04.480
<v Speaker 1>true again, and this opens a rift between Paul and

0:30:04.560 --> 0:30:07.160
<v Speaker 1>his family that lasts for the next several years, as

0:30:07.200 --> 0:30:10.200
<v Speaker 1>Paul begins to piece things together on his own. At

0:30:10.200 --> 0:30:13.640
<v Speaker 1>this point, Paul conducts exhaustive research about his own life.

0:30:13.960 --> 0:30:17.120
<v Speaker 1>He speaks with a woman named Mary Hendry, whose father,

0:30:17.560 --> 0:30:21.320
<v Speaker 1>John T. Carton, had been a Chicago police lieutenant and

0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:26.560
<v Speaker 1>had run the kidnapping investigation. Originally, she says, this woman says, quote,

0:30:26.600 --> 0:30:28.840
<v Speaker 1>I remember my father standing in the kitchen of her home,

0:30:28.920 --> 0:30:31.640
<v Speaker 1>shaking his head. He talked about what good people the

0:30:31.680 --> 0:30:34.400
<v Speaker 1>franz Acs were, and how badly he felt for them,

0:30:34.480 --> 0:30:36.880
<v Speaker 1>and what a good job they would do. Raising the baby.

0:30:37.400 --> 0:30:39.640
<v Speaker 1>But he also said that the child they took home

0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:42.600
<v Speaker 1>was not their baby. He knew, he was certain it

0:30:42.680 --> 0:30:45.920
<v Speaker 1>wasn't the right boy. My father told us The FBI

0:30:45.960 --> 0:30:48.160
<v Speaker 1>and the police both agreed the child was not the

0:30:48.240 --> 0:30:51.160
<v Speaker 1>kidnapped baby, but the frans Acts were such good people

0:30:51.480 --> 0:30:54.680
<v Speaker 1>they agreed to let it unfold the way it did end. Quote,

0:30:55.560 --> 0:30:58.400
<v Speaker 1>So there's a two year old baby missing. This two

0:30:58.480 --> 0:31:01.920
<v Speaker 1>year old baby needs a family. That's all just what's

0:31:01.920 --> 0:31:03.560
<v Speaker 1>a cognitive dissonance? What's it called?

0:31:04.040 --> 0:31:09.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, or just like selective? Yeah, so everyone denial Yeah, Yeah.

0:31:09.360 --> 0:31:10.000
<v Speaker 1>Isn't that sad?

0:31:10.440 --> 0:31:13.120
<v Speaker 2>And it reminds me of the change link. It's that

0:31:13.200 --> 0:31:17.520
<v Speaker 2>same thing of like changeling version is much more sad

0:31:17.560 --> 0:31:18.880
<v Speaker 2>because the mother immediately knew.

0:31:19.000 --> 0:31:19.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:31:19.760 --> 0:31:22.160
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, when you're in that situation and someone's like

0:31:22.400 --> 0:31:24.760
<v Speaker 2>the dates line up, the timing of this, that that

0:31:25.240 --> 0:31:27.280
<v Speaker 2>then you just want to be out of your misery.

0:31:27.480 --> 0:31:29.440
<v Speaker 2>I feel like you'd go, you'd be a little psychotic

0:31:29.520 --> 0:31:32.520
<v Speaker 2>if your fucking baby was kidnapped, because then it makes

0:31:32.560 --> 0:31:34.480
<v Speaker 2>sense how mad they are at him when he opens

0:31:34.480 --> 0:31:36.320
<v Speaker 2>it back up, because they're like, we can't face the

0:31:36.360 --> 0:31:37.920
<v Speaker 2>fact that then we gave up.

0:31:38.080 --> 0:31:40.520
<v Speaker 1>Paul shares the story with the media and it attracts

0:31:40.560 --> 0:31:43.440
<v Speaker 1>a lot of attention. So the FBI reopens the Paul

0:31:43.440 --> 0:31:48.160
<v Speaker 1>Fronsac case and in twenty thirteen he's contacted by Ancestry

0:31:48.360 --> 0:31:51.560
<v Speaker 1>and they tell him about their new DNA genealogy project,

0:31:51.640 --> 0:31:54.360
<v Speaker 1>and so Paul submits his DNA. There are a lot

0:31:54.360 --> 0:31:57.480
<v Speaker 1>of false leads, and then a group of genetic genealogists

0:31:57.560 --> 0:32:01.240
<v Speaker 1>called the DNA Detectives, led by our girl C. C. Moore,

0:32:01.400 --> 0:32:04.920
<v Speaker 1>who's of course the head of Parabon Nanolab's genetic genealogy unit.

0:32:05.160 --> 0:32:07.240
<v Speaker 1>She winds up taking on Paul's case, and we know

0:32:07.360 --> 0:32:10.320
<v Speaker 1>she can solve anything great. So in twenty fifteen, they

0:32:10.360 --> 0:32:13.280
<v Speaker 1>finally figure out who Paul is. He was born the

0:32:13.320 --> 0:32:15.200
<v Speaker 1>little baby who was found outside the store at the

0:32:15.240 --> 0:32:19.320
<v Speaker 1>department store. He was born Jack Rosenthal and shockingly, it

0:32:19.360 --> 0:32:21.960
<v Speaker 1>turns out he was a twin. Ooh, so this is

0:32:21.960 --> 0:32:24.640
<v Speaker 1>probably the saddest twist in the story. Paul learns that

0:32:24.680 --> 0:32:27.040
<v Speaker 1>he had been born in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Remember

0:32:27.080 --> 0:32:29.600
<v Speaker 1>he was found in Newark, and that he and his

0:32:29.640 --> 0:32:32.440
<v Speaker 1>twin sister Jill, so it was Jack and Joe had

0:32:32.480 --> 0:32:35.760
<v Speaker 1>disappeared in nineteen sixty five. So he travels back to

0:32:35.800 --> 0:32:36.360
<v Speaker 1>New Jersey.

0:32:36.560 --> 0:32:39.640
<v Speaker 2>He meets relatives who said that they had seen him

0:32:39.640 --> 0:32:42.880
<v Speaker 2>and Jill as babies, and then suddenly his parents started

0:32:42.880 --> 0:32:45.280
<v Speaker 2>making up excuses as to why he and his sister.

0:32:45.120 --> 0:32:46.200
<v Speaker 1>Were not around anymore.

0:32:46.920 --> 0:32:49.640
<v Speaker 2>What I know, like they just dropped them off in

0:32:49.640 --> 0:32:52.080
<v Speaker 2>front of a store. Well, there are other relatives who

0:32:52.160 --> 0:32:55.320
<v Speaker 2>say that they had seen Jack and Jill abused and neglected.

0:32:55.800 --> 0:32:57.960
<v Speaker 2>Paul learns that his father had been a Korean War

0:32:58.040 --> 0:33:01.560
<v Speaker 2>veteran and likely had PTSD. Remember he get scared when

0:33:01.560 --> 0:33:03.960
<v Speaker 2>a younger man will walk into the room. He learns

0:33:03.960 --> 0:33:06.520
<v Speaker 2>that his mother had been an alcoholic and both of

0:33:06.600 --> 0:33:09.800
<v Speaker 2>Paul's biological parents had died in the nineties of cancer.

0:33:10.520 --> 0:33:13.840
<v Speaker 1>So Paul pursues multiple avenues to try to find his

0:33:13.880 --> 0:33:17.479
<v Speaker 1>twin sister, including digging up the lot where his biological parents'

0:33:17.520 --> 0:33:20.920
<v Speaker 1>house had been. Wow, he never finds anything.

0:33:21.360 --> 0:33:23.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh, he was digging up the lot like his sister

0:33:23.360 --> 0:33:24.080
<v Speaker 2>could be buried.

0:33:24.240 --> 0:33:27.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Wow, because after they were children, no one saw anything.

0:33:27.400 --> 0:33:29.360
<v Speaker 1>He knows he survived and what happened to him, but

0:33:29.440 --> 0:33:32.320
<v Speaker 1>no one knows what happened to Jill. The working theory

0:33:32.360 --> 0:33:34.560
<v Speaker 1>is that Jill may have died in their biological parents

0:33:34.760 --> 0:33:37.920
<v Speaker 1>care due to abuse or neglect, and that Paul was

0:33:37.960 --> 0:33:40.320
<v Speaker 1>then abandoned at the same time because they both kind

0:33:40.320 --> 0:33:43.560
<v Speaker 1>of disappeared together. So Paul also has a biological older

0:33:43.600 --> 0:33:46.200
<v Speaker 1>sister who's only about two years older than him. He

0:33:46.240 --> 0:33:48.920
<v Speaker 1>meets her, she has no memory of him or Jill.

0:33:49.160 --> 0:33:51.160
<v Speaker 1>He also has a brother who he emails and who

0:33:51.160 --> 0:33:53.640
<v Speaker 1>says he doesn't want to be in contact. Both of

0:33:53.640 --> 0:33:57.520
<v Speaker 1>these siblings, of course, had extremely difficult childhoods. So for

0:33:57.560 --> 0:34:01.160
<v Speaker 1>about five years, this is where the investigation is at

0:34:01.160 --> 0:34:05.160
<v Speaker 1>a stanstill. Paul publishes his book The Foundling in twenty seventeen,

0:34:05.520 --> 0:34:08.040
<v Speaker 1>never having found the real little boy who was stolen

0:34:08.040 --> 0:34:10.960
<v Speaker 1>from his parents. That's like he solved this mystery of

0:34:11.000 --> 0:34:14.640
<v Speaker 1>who he was, but there's still this big question mark.

0:34:14.760 --> 0:34:17.120
<v Speaker 1>And so in twenty twenty it comes out that the

0:34:17.200 --> 0:34:21.000
<v Speaker 1>FBI had identified the real baby of Dora and Chester

0:34:21.560 --> 0:34:25.040
<v Speaker 1>a year before, in twenty nineteen. His name had been

0:34:25.120 --> 0:34:28.640
<v Speaker 1>Kevin Ray Baby, but his existence is only reported on

0:34:28.800 --> 0:34:32.200
<v Speaker 1>after his death of cancer, so he had found out

0:34:32.280 --> 0:34:34.799
<v Speaker 1>shortly after finding the test results out. So he didn't

0:34:34.840 --> 0:34:36.560
<v Speaker 1>really want anyone to know as him, I think, or

0:34:37.000 --> 0:34:38.960
<v Speaker 1>we don't really know what was going on there. Kevin's

0:34:39.040 --> 0:34:41.640
<v Speaker 1>children had seen reports about Paul's search for answers, and

0:34:41.680 --> 0:34:44.879
<v Speaker 1>for reasons that are still unclear, had suspected that their

0:34:44.920 --> 0:34:48.800
<v Speaker 1>father is the real Paul Franzac. Kevin had taken a

0:34:48.880 --> 0:34:51.880
<v Speaker 1>DNA test and these suspicions were confirmed, and then he

0:34:52.120 --> 0:34:55.560
<v Speaker 1>passes away from cancer, and then the FBI lets everyone know.

0:34:56.239 --> 0:34:58.560
<v Speaker 1>Kevin had lived in a small town in Michigan called Manton.

0:34:58.920 --> 0:35:01.399
<v Speaker 1>Friends and neighbors remember him as a very kind man.

0:35:01.640 --> 0:35:04.040
<v Speaker 1>So here's a photo of the baby picture and an

0:35:04.080 --> 0:35:07.439
<v Speaker 1>age progression drawing of what he would look like. Oh okay,

0:35:07.520 --> 0:35:09.719
<v Speaker 1>now here's the baby and what he actually looks like.

0:35:09.760 --> 0:35:12.720
<v Speaker 1>So look at that guy. It looks just like him.

0:35:14.600 --> 0:35:16.600
<v Speaker 1>And then think of fake George.

0:35:16.360 --> 0:35:19.719
<v Speaker 2>Clooney, Like, that doesn't look anything like that. I guess

0:35:19.760 --> 0:35:21.600
<v Speaker 2>you can tell what a baby's going to look like.

0:35:21.640 --> 0:35:24.719
<v Speaker 2>But isn't that crazy? That's so close? Wait, go back, Yeah,

0:35:24.760 --> 0:35:26.280
<v Speaker 2>that's that's wild.

0:35:26.360 --> 0:35:31.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so that's their real baby. I know that's sad. Okay.

0:35:31.160 --> 0:35:34.160
<v Speaker 1>Before Kevin's death, he had gotten to speak on the

0:35:34.160 --> 0:35:37.640
<v Speaker 1>phone multiple times with Dora Franzac. At this point, the

0:35:37.680 --> 0:35:41.160
<v Speaker 1>case is still considered open and very few details about

0:35:41.280 --> 0:35:45.520
<v Speaker 1>Kevin and what happened to him after he was kidnaped

0:35:45.520 --> 0:35:47.799
<v Speaker 1>from the hospital have been reported, but we do know this.

0:35:48.320 --> 0:35:51.000
<v Speaker 1>Kevin had been raised by a woman named Lorraine Fountain.

0:35:51.480 --> 0:35:54.400
<v Speaker 1>She died in two thousand and four. And Lorraine had

0:35:54.440 --> 0:35:57.600
<v Speaker 1>been dating a doctor from Chicago and then moved to

0:35:57.719 --> 0:36:01.280
<v Speaker 1>Arkansas for about a year, and when she returned to Michigan,

0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:04.080
<v Speaker 1>where her family lived, she had a baby with her.

0:36:04.840 --> 0:36:08.880
<v Speaker 1>But Paul, who now has a podcast called The Franzac Files,

0:36:09.480 --> 0:36:13.000
<v Speaker 1>and he's actively investigating his whole story and trying to

0:36:13.000 --> 0:36:15.640
<v Speaker 1>figure everything out. Yeah, it's not funny. He doesn't believe

0:36:15.680 --> 0:36:18.759
<v Speaker 1>that Lorraine was the one who kidnapped the baby. He

0:36:18.920 --> 0:36:22.000
<v Speaker 1>believes that she had some kind of connection to organized

0:36:22.040 --> 0:36:25.360
<v Speaker 1>crime in Chicago. And Paul believes that Lorraine was paid

0:36:25.400 --> 0:36:28.240
<v Speaker 1>to forge a birth certificate and raise Kevin.

0:36:28.000 --> 0:36:31.400
<v Speaker 2>As her own. Why though, I don't know. It's almost

0:36:31.400 --> 0:36:34.960
<v Speaker 2>like was there some black market for babies? Probably right,

0:36:35.480 --> 0:36:38.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. Does the mafia trade in babies? That

0:36:38.239 --> 0:36:40.600
<v Speaker 2>doesn't seem like their style, I know, but like maybe

0:36:40.600 --> 0:36:43.880
<v Speaker 2>one of the mafioso's girlfriends wanted a baby and so

0:36:43.920 --> 0:36:46.000
<v Speaker 2>they had kidnapped one and it didn't work out, and

0:36:46.040 --> 0:36:47.600
<v Speaker 2>then they couldn't.

0:36:47.239 --> 0:36:48.480
<v Speaker 1>Just give it back right.

0:36:48.560 --> 0:36:51.960
<v Speaker 2>They had a like, yeah, that's going so far around

0:36:52.000 --> 0:36:56.040
<v Speaker 2>the bend. It's easy, baby, not easy to get a baby.

0:36:56.360 --> 0:36:59.680
<v Speaker 2>Take it from me, Georgia. It's really God, did you

0:36:59.719 --> 0:37:02.719
<v Speaker 2>watch that documentary about the woman who would just go

0:37:02.760 --> 0:37:04.919
<v Speaker 2>take them out of people's houses. No, it's even worse

0:37:04.960 --> 0:37:08.399
<v Speaker 2>than that maternal instinct, internal instinct. Is it good?

0:37:08.560 --> 0:37:10.480
<v Speaker 1>It's so it's so troubling.

0:37:10.800 --> 0:37:13.680
<v Speaker 2>Okay, it's just you wouldn't because I saw something on

0:37:13.719 --> 0:37:16.600
<v Speaker 2>TikTok talking about it, but the people were so freaked

0:37:16.600 --> 0:37:18.560
<v Speaker 2>out that we're telling it. I was like, should I not?

0:37:18.800 --> 0:37:23.120
<v Speaker 1>You've covered a case very similar to Okay, it's so psychotic.

0:37:23.200 --> 0:37:23.880
<v Speaker 1>You just couldn't.

0:37:23.960 --> 0:37:26.040
<v Speaker 2>You can't eat ladies that want to be pregnant and

0:37:26.120 --> 0:37:29.879
<v Speaker 2>go after pregnant ladies something along those lines, lying about

0:37:29.880 --> 0:37:32.560
<v Speaker 2>pregnancy and then the extremes that they go through when

0:37:32.600 --> 0:37:36.200
<v Speaker 2>they get caught and just won't let it go. Here's

0:37:36.239 --> 0:37:39.799
<v Speaker 2>the thing. We have a lot of shame about who

0:37:39.880 --> 0:37:42.839
<v Speaker 2>we've been in our lives and the obsessions that we've had.

0:37:43.239 --> 0:37:46.040
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely the mistakes we've made so many, But every once

0:37:46.040 --> 0:37:47.960
<v Speaker 2>in a while and maybe That's what this is all about,

0:37:48.400 --> 0:37:51.440
<v Speaker 2>is looking at these extreme human beings. I'm going at

0:37:51.480 --> 0:37:55.200
<v Speaker 2>least I never stole someone else's baby because I was

0:37:55.360 --> 0:37:56.959
<v Speaker 2>obsessed with having a.

0:37:56.840 --> 0:37:59.440
<v Speaker 1>Baby totally and lied about being pregnant.

0:37:59.640 --> 0:38:00.440
<v Speaker 2>Why why?

0:38:00.680 --> 0:38:02.960
<v Speaker 1>I can't even understand why you would lie to it,

0:38:03.000 --> 0:38:04.680
<v Speaker 1>which makes me think I'm a good person.

0:38:05.000 --> 0:38:06.719
<v Speaker 2>I mean, all I want to do is get drunk

0:38:06.760 --> 0:38:08.839
<v Speaker 2>at the Rustic in and eat grilled cheese sandwiches all

0:38:08.920 --> 0:38:09.319
<v Speaker 2>day long.

0:38:09.440 --> 0:38:10.200
<v Speaker 1>That sounds great.

0:38:10.360 --> 0:38:13.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't want anything to do with anybody's baby. No, same,

0:38:13.960 --> 0:38:19.359
<v Speaker 2>No thanks, Paul. Are we allowed to say, send us

0:38:19.400 --> 0:38:22.880
<v Speaker 2>your babies, we don't want anything to do stories?

0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:28.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, send us tell us how hard baby is. Paul

0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:30.520
<v Speaker 1>Is recently put out a call for more information. He's

0:38:30.560 --> 0:38:32.759
<v Speaker 1>hoping to hear from anyone who lived in Chicago from

0:38:32.840 --> 0:38:36.359
<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty two to nineteen sixty four who frequented an

0:38:36.480 --> 0:38:40.000
<v Speaker 1>establishment known as Durkin's Bar. And I looked it up,

0:38:40.280 --> 0:38:43.160
<v Speaker 1>and it was like the rustic dive bars.

0:38:43.719 --> 0:38:46.440
<v Speaker 2>It was one of those bars were like one o'clock

0:38:46.520 --> 0:38:48.880
<v Speaker 2>in the afternoon, people were already drunk.

0:38:49.200 --> 0:38:51.320
<v Speaker 1>Kind of a place. It's not like that anymore. Unfortunately,

0:38:51.320 --> 0:38:56.160
<v Speaker 1>it's a little more like college ros. But it still exists,

0:38:56.400 --> 0:39:00.279
<v Speaker 1>So ask your dads everyone, what's the theory. I don't know.

0:39:01.080 --> 0:39:02.480
<v Speaker 1>Listening to the podcast.

0:39:02.200 --> 0:39:04.360
<v Speaker 2>Somebody in there, Yeah, I want to listen to that.

0:39:04.440 --> 0:39:07.600
<v Speaker 1>Maybe that the dad, his actual dad used to go there,

0:39:07.760 --> 0:39:10.560
<v Speaker 1>you know, the one who was had PTSD and maybe

0:39:10.600 --> 0:39:12.040
<v Speaker 1>talked about his children.

0:39:12.239 --> 0:39:14.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh, you know, like in a drunken way.

0:39:14.160 --> 0:39:16.480
<v Speaker 1>We're doing him. Or his mom was an alcoholic, so

0:39:16.560 --> 0:39:18.399
<v Speaker 1>maybe she fucking hung out there and just.

0:39:19.840 --> 0:39:26.720
<v Speaker 2>Totally Oh that's interesting, guys. Ask your grandfathers. Piece it together, dude.

0:39:26.840 --> 0:39:31.400
<v Speaker 1>The official FBI investigation into who exactly took Kevin aka

0:39:31.520 --> 0:39:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Little Paul when he was just two days old also

0:39:34.680 --> 0:39:37.439
<v Speaker 1>remains open, and that is the story of the Paul

0:39:37.520 --> 0:39:39.439
<v Speaker 1>Franzac triple disappearance.

0:39:39.719 --> 0:39:42.320
<v Speaker 2>God, I know, wait, I have an idea. Why don't

0:39:42.320 --> 0:39:45.600
<v Speaker 2>they Why don't they? How would you do it? Forward

0:39:45.800 --> 0:39:50.160
<v Speaker 2>age the illustration of the lady in the newspaper, yeah,

0:39:50.320 --> 0:39:55.000
<v Speaker 2>or or backwards age something. Do something with that information,

0:39:55.160 --> 0:39:57.600
<v Speaker 2>because that's a that's a witness sighting.

0:39:57.760 --> 0:40:01.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but it's so vague that I can't imagine. Yeah,

0:40:01.320 --> 0:40:03.480
<v Speaker 1>it just looks like any it looks like a nurse,

0:40:03.600 --> 0:40:06.160
<v Speaker 1>you know. Yeah, So bananas crazy.

0:40:06.239 --> 0:40:07.880
<v Speaker 2>I know you've done it again. I know.

0:40:07.960 --> 0:40:09.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry. I told you.

0:40:09.560 --> 0:40:12.120
<v Speaker 2>Here's the thing. I think it's great that Paul Franzig

0:40:12.160 --> 0:40:14.919
<v Speaker 2>has started a podcast. I think that's exactly where things

0:40:15.000 --> 0:40:18.040
<v Speaker 2>like that belong. And then talk to people who listen

0:40:18.040 --> 0:40:22.320
<v Speaker 2>to these podcasts and similar podcasts can get involved. Yeah, God,

0:40:22.880 --> 0:40:23.359
<v Speaker 2>solve it.

0:40:23.440 --> 0:40:25.520
<v Speaker 1>Tell us we want to do a true crime update

0:40:25.840 --> 0:40:27.640
<v Speaker 1>soon about this case. Please.

0:40:30.000 --> 0:40:34.719
<v Speaker 2>Luckily, my story is all about evidence and facts, collecting

0:40:34.760 --> 0:40:39.440
<v Speaker 2>evidence and facts, and hey, it's a little bit of

0:40:39.440 --> 0:40:42.319
<v Speaker 2>a turn, I see. I think you'll enjoy it. It

0:40:42.400 --> 0:40:44.759
<v Speaker 2>begins in the mid eighties, which I know you like

0:40:45.520 --> 0:40:48.520
<v Speaker 2>in southeastern Michigan, which you also like. He's just a

0:40:48.560 --> 0:40:51.960
<v Speaker 2>mission in and around Flint, Okay, right, which is, if

0:40:52.000 --> 0:40:54.560
<v Speaker 2>you don't know, not too far from Detroit. It's a

0:40:54.560 --> 0:40:57.239
<v Speaker 2>difficult time. The mid eighties is a difficult time for

0:40:57.520 --> 0:41:01.319
<v Speaker 2>many communities in this part of Michigan. General motors has

0:41:01.360 --> 0:41:05.160
<v Speaker 2>begun closing local plants, costing thousands of people their livelihoods,

0:41:05.560 --> 0:41:09.120
<v Speaker 2>and then the wave of crack cocaine hits the streets.

0:41:09.760 --> 0:41:12.760
<v Speaker 2>Over the last two decades, drugs like heroin have taken

0:41:12.760 --> 0:41:16.320
<v Speaker 2>a toll on many Michiganders. But crack spawns a uniquely

0:41:16.320 --> 0:41:20.440
<v Speaker 2>devastating crisis, and the States violent crime rates soars and

0:41:20.520 --> 0:41:23.680
<v Speaker 2>peaks in nineteen eighty six. So it is around that time,

0:41:24.080 --> 0:41:27.200
<v Speaker 2>and so of course when that happens, the Anti Drug

0:41:27.239 --> 0:41:30.839
<v Speaker 2>Abuse Act of nineteen eighty six becomes federal law, and

0:41:30.960 --> 0:41:34.040
<v Speaker 2>that kicks off Ronald Reagan's war on drugs. That's when

0:41:34.080 --> 0:41:36.560
<v Speaker 2>I grew up as a little kid, like drilled it

0:41:36.600 --> 0:41:38.720
<v Speaker 2>in your fucking head made me want to do drugs

0:41:38.719 --> 0:41:41.560
<v Speaker 2>so bad it was, you know, it's funny. It makes

0:41:41.600 --> 0:41:43.520
<v Speaker 2>me think it The first time anyone ever offered me

0:41:43.600 --> 0:41:45.520
<v Speaker 2>Potter was a freshman in high school, and I burst

0:41:45.560 --> 0:41:50.320
<v Speaker 2>into tears. Wow, that's how intense Nancy Reagan's She fucking

0:41:50.520 --> 0:41:53.160
<v Speaker 2>bent little finger pointing at us. I mean, those.

0:41:53.000 --> 0:41:56.440
<v Speaker 1>People blight light on humanity.

0:41:56.480 --> 0:41:58.520
<v Speaker 2>Don't upset the ghost of my mother, who will come

0:41:58.560 --> 0:42:00.960
<v Speaker 2>and haunt us forever because she agrees with it. She

0:42:01.640 --> 0:42:03.920
<v Speaker 2>agrees with it to the point where she will cross

0:42:04.040 --> 0:42:07.000
<v Speaker 2>back over to lecture both of us about how Ronald

0:42:07.040 --> 0:42:08.120
<v Speaker 2>Reagan ruined this. Pay.

0:42:08.480 --> 0:42:11.400
<v Speaker 1>I will sit fucking Chris cross applesaws and listen to

0:42:11.640 --> 0:42:14.040
<v Speaker 1>Nurse Pat tell me everything.

0:42:14.200 --> 0:42:17.040
<v Speaker 2>Dude, that is how I was raised. If you ever like,

0:42:17.120 --> 0:42:19.960
<v Speaker 2>why is she the way she is? Because dinner was

0:42:20.040 --> 0:42:24.360
<v Speaker 2>either my dad being hilarious or my mom literally predicting

0:42:25.160 --> 0:42:28.719
<v Speaker 2>like an ancient Greek oracle the future, where it's like,

0:42:29.280 --> 0:42:31.680
<v Speaker 2>who's going to take care of these people? These laws

0:42:31.680 --> 0:42:35.520
<v Speaker 2>that they're passing like the insane, so much fear and

0:42:35.960 --> 0:42:39.239
<v Speaker 2>intense pattern recognition, which I'm always very proud of she

0:42:39.360 --> 0:42:42.360
<v Speaker 2>passed it down. All that is to say, war on

0:42:42.400 --> 0:42:45.560
<v Speaker 2>drugs kicks off in this country, and it kicks into overdrive,

0:42:45.719 --> 0:42:49.560
<v Speaker 2>introducing new laws like mandatory minimum sentences for drug crimes.

0:42:50.080 --> 0:42:53.400
<v Speaker 2>In recent years, public health experts have criticized these policies

0:42:53.440 --> 0:42:57.840
<v Speaker 2>as being racist, punitive, and not particularly effective at addressing

0:42:57.920 --> 0:43:01.239
<v Speaker 2>drug use in any way. It's under lying issues or

0:43:01.480 --> 0:43:04.280
<v Speaker 2>drug sales on the streets just didn't help really anything

0:43:04.320 --> 0:43:07.520
<v Speaker 2>at all. But it was the eighties, so when Nancy

0:43:07.560 --> 0:43:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Reagan appears in a telecast from the White House wearing

0:43:11.040 --> 0:43:14.440
<v Speaker 2>her little red sweater and begging young Americans to quote

0:43:14.560 --> 0:43:17.680
<v Speaker 2>just say no, the idea of the war on drugs

0:43:17.719 --> 0:43:21.040
<v Speaker 2>becomes broadly popular. It's like, Oh, they're really doing something

0:43:21.080 --> 0:43:24.280
<v Speaker 2>about these drug addicts and these people in this crime

0:43:25.120 --> 0:43:29.760
<v Speaker 2>the messaging was inescapable. It was everywhere. Here she is, remember.

0:43:31.960 --> 0:43:35.040
<v Speaker 1>Fucking shampoo set and that mister t chain around her neck,

0:43:35.880 --> 0:43:36.560
<v Speaker 1>fucking hate her.

0:43:36.680 --> 0:43:39.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that mister teaching. She was good friends with.

0:43:39.960 --> 0:43:41.040
<v Speaker 1>Mister That's right.

0:43:41.320 --> 0:43:44.840
<v Speaker 2>It's just so weird because like the first lady passing down, this,

0:43:44.840 --> 0:43:46.560
<v Speaker 2>this is what we're all going to do about. It's

0:43:46.600 --> 0:43:50.120
<v Speaker 2>just such a different time. It's like it was Victorian

0:43:50.160 --> 0:43:52.239
<v Speaker 2>times or something. How we were all just in the

0:43:52.280 --> 0:43:54.680
<v Speaker 2>monoculture going, yes, Nancy, you're right.

0:43:54.840 --> 0:43:57.000
<v Speaker 1>Your husband's an actor, so that makes you what.

0:43:57.320 --> 0:43:58.600
<v Speaker 2>That makes you also an actor?

0:43:59.200 --> 0:43:59.640
<v Speaker 1>That's right.

0:43:59.719 --> 0:44:02.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay. So by nineteen ninety, the war on drugs is

0:44:02.600 --> 0:44:05.240
<v Speaker 2>in full swing, yet lots of people are still buying

0:44:05.239 --> 0:44:08.560
<v Speaker 2>and selling drugs. It turns out, enter a man named

0:44:08.680 --> 0:44:12.439
<v Speaker 2>Lacey Brown. He is a big, rough and tumble, chain

0:44:12.520 --> 0:44:16.880
<v Speaker 2>smoking forty seven year old North Carolinian living in southeastern Michigan.

0:44:17.040 --> 0:44:20.080
<v Speaker 2>He's got long hair, he's got a big beard, pierced ears.

0:44:20.440 --> 0:44:23.880
<v Speaker 2>His nickname is Moon, which is a double entendre. Not

0:44:23.960 --> 0:44:26.480
<v Speaker 2>only does he stay up all night drinking, he also

0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:29.040
<v Speaker 2>gets a kick out of dropping his pants and showing

0:44:29.040 --> 0:44:30.520
<v Speaker 2>his bare ass to people at parties.

0:44:30.560 --> 0:44:33.719
<v Speaker 1>Which wasn't problematic back then. There was no height of

0:44:33.800 --> 0:44:34.600
<v Speaker 1>humor back.

0:44:34.400 --> 0:44:38.520
<v Speaker 2>Then, streaking mooning people, being a peeping tom.

0:44:38.600 --> 0:44:42.200
<v Speaker 1>The amount a grown man's asses we saw as humor. Yes,

0:44:42.320 --> 0:44:43.440
<v Speaker 1>this is unsettling.

0:44:43.560 --> 0:44:44.320
<v Speaker 2>It was NonStop.

0:44:44.520 --> 0:44:44.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:44:45.000 --> 0:44:47.279
<v Speaker 2>So, and let's take a look at Moons just so

0:44:47.320 --> 0:44:50.600
<v Speaker 2>we get the sense of the guy who likes mooning

0:44:50.600 --> 0:44:53.160
<v Speaker 2>people so much. That's his nickname, the guy in the front.

0:44:53.320 --> 0:44:55.120
<v Speaker 2>It's the front guy with the long hair in the

0:44:55.120 --> 0:44:59.600
<v Speaker 2>beard and overalls. Essentially based on that appearance, you would

0:44:59.600 --> 0:45:03.080
<v Speaker 2>assume he's either a drug dealer or maybe a drug purchaser.

0:45:03.360 --> 0:45:05.480
<v Speaker 2>Is he He's actually an undercover?

0:45:05.640 --> 0:45:06.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh fuck?

0:45:07.239 --> 0:45:10.360
<v Speaker 2>And he is in the area to bust drug rings.

0:45:10.719 --> 0:45:13.680
<v Speaker 2>This is the story of Lacey Moon Brown and the

0:45:13.800 --> 0:45:15.720
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety wedding sting.

0:45:16.239 --> 0:45:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, I don't this is like a theme.

0:45:19.520 --> 0:45:21.879
<v Speaker 1>I'm really fucking obsessed with that. We just don't hear

0:45:22.000 --> 0:45:22.319
<v Speaker 1>enough of.

0:45:22.600 --> 0:45:25.600
<v Speaker 2>Yes, Tom foolery of the cops in the eighties. Yeah,

0:45:25.920 --> 0:45:29.880
<v Speaker 2>undercover in a really dangerous situation. Yes, and like actually

0:45:29.920 --> 0:45:33.200
<v Speaker 2>embedding yourself your whole life is that role? Yeah?

0:45:33.239 --> 0:45:34.799
<v Speaker 1>Like in the mafia too, and they have like I

0:45:34.840 --> 0:45:35.840
<v Speaker 1>just find that so fascinating.

0:45:35.880 --> 0:45:38.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like the movie Donnie Brasco. Right, It's just like

0:45:38.400 --> 0:45:40.839
<v Speaker 2>he's in and he can't get out. It is such

0:45:40.880 --> 0:45:44.120
<v Speaker 2>a crazy life. So this whole story that I'm about

0:45:44.120 --> 0:45:46.600
<v Speaker 2>to tell you is based on a twenty fifteen Atlantic

0:45:46.719 --> 0:45:51.040
<v Speaker 2>article by a reporter named Jeff Mash entitled The Wedding Sting.

0:45:51.640 --> 0:45:53.359
<v Speaker 2>The rest of the sources are in our show notes,

0:45:53.400 --> 0:45:56.520
<v Speaker 2>but that article is the primary source. So this man,

0:45:56.600 --> 0:45:59.520
<v Speaker 2>Lacey Brown's personal journey that led him to law enforcement

0:45:59.719 --> 0:46:03.520
<v Speaker 2>is unorthodox, to say the least. This is according to him.

0:46:03.560 --> 0:46:06.439
<v Speaker 2>This is his story. He starts drinking when he's six

0:46:06.520 --> 0:46:09.480
<v Speaker 2>years old. He joins the Marines in his twenties, but

0:46:09.640 --> 0:46:14.719
<v Speaker 2>gets kicked out for violent conduct in the marine as

0:46:14.760 --> 0:46:17.400
<v Speaker 2>a civilian. I like that. I know, isn't that the point?

0:46:17.800 --> 0:46:20.440
<v Speaker 2>As a civilian, he racks up charges for everything from

0:46:20.480 --> 0:46:25.120
<v Speaker 2>a legal possession of moonshine to assault. In nineteen seventy two,

0:46:25.200 --> 0:46:27.400
<v Speaker 2>when he's around thirty years old, he finds himself in

0:46:27.440 --> 0:46:30.800
<v Speaker 2>a jail cell following yet another arrest for felony assault

0:46:30.840 --> 0:46:33.680
<v Speaker 2>with a deadly weapon. This is rock bottom for him.

0:46:34.160 --> 0:46:37.360
<v Speaker 2>He's going through severe alcohol withdrawal and he begs for

0:46:37.400 --> 0:46:40.319
<v Speaker 2>God's mercy. And then his felony is suddenly reduced to

0:46:40.360 --> 0:46:43.319
<v Speaker 2>a misdemeanor and he's released from custody. He takes it

0:46:43.360 --> 0:46:45.200
<v Speaker 2>as a sign that God is listening to him, and

0:46:45.239 --> 0:46:48.080
<v Speaker 2>he vows to change his life. So he course corrects

0:46:48.120 --> 0:46:49.560
<v Speaker 2>by becoming a police officer.

0:46:50.880 --> 0:46:54.320
<v Speaker 1>A little bit of laugh, bro, He's like, don't go fishing,

0:46:54.440 --> 0:46:56.240
<v Speaker 1>don't just like take a sharp rite.

0:46:56.280 --> 0:46:58.120
<v Speaker 2>How about you could become a.

0:46:58.080 --> 0:47:01.920
<v Speaker 1>Plasterer, totally welder something. He's welder, help.

0:47:01.880 --> 0:47:06.880
<v Speaker 2>People, postman. That's perfect, yes, right, bring your beard around.

0:47:06.920 --> 0:47:08.440
<v Speaker 2>You can moon people if you want. At the end

0:47:08.480 --> 0:47:11.240
<v Speaker 2>of your shift. In nineteen seventy seven, against all odds,

0:47:11.360 --> 0:47:14.040
<v Speaker 2>Moon graduates from the police academy and he gets his

0:47:14.160 --> 0:47:17.480
<v Speaker 2>tart at a department just outside of Detroit.

0:47:17.520 --> 0:47:19.279
<v Speaker 1>Wait the violent guy.

0:47:19.440 --> 0:47:22.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, too violent for the Marines, right for the Marine Corps.

0:47:22.960 --> 0:47:25.879
<v Speaker 2>Right now he's at your local police department. But he's

0:47:25.960 --> 0:47:29.120
<v Speaker 2>not your typical police officer. Later on, one of his

0:47:29.160 --> 0:47:31.919
<v Speaker 2>colleagues will say, quote, if you saw him, you'd never

0:47:31.960 --> 0:47:34.200
<v Speaker 2>believe he was a cop. He had food stuck in

0:47:34.239 --> 0:47:39.560
<v Speaker 2>his beard. I mean I buy it. That's way way

0:47:39.600 --> 0:47:40.400
<v Speaker 2>to give a quote.

0:47:40.480 --> 0:47:42.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, way to talk about.

0:47:41.840 --> 0:47:45.560
<v Speaker 2>What's important, Like I slept with his wife or something something.

0:47:45.840 --> 0:47:49.759
<v Speaker 2>He's just like, this guy's a pig. But another coworker

0:47:49.800 --> 0:47:52.600
<v Speaker 2>describes him as quote more believable as a bad guy

0:47:52.920 --> 0:47:55.960
<v Speaker 2>than he was as a police officer end quote. So

0:47:56.360 --> 0:48:00.600
<v Speaker 2>Moon's unconventional look and wild disposition work for him, especially

0:48:00.680 --> 0:48:03.920
<v Speaker 2>of course when he starts going undercover, and as he does,

0:48:04.000 --> 0:48:07.480
<v Speaker 2>he is so effective that he basically becomes a free

0:48:07.520 --> 0:48:11.080
<v Speaker 2>agent of sorts, doing contracted work for everyone from the

0:48:11.160 --> 0:48:15.120
<v Speaker 2>DEA to the FBI to various drug units across Michigan.

0:48:15.800 --> 0:48:19.440
<v Speaker 2>So I'm sure that not very many cops looked like

0:48:19.680 --> 0:48:22.279
<v Speaker 2>him or had that kind of built in there's no

0:48:22.360 --> 0:48:24.960
<v Speaker 2>way you could be a cop energy, right, and the

0:48:25.160 --> 0:48:27.960
<v Speaker 2>like he had so many years to practice being a

0:48:28.000 --> 0:48:28.479
<v Speaker 2>bad guy.

0:48:28.680 --> 0:48:30.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah you can't. If you're twenty one and you're a cop.

0:48:30.920 --> 0:48:33.560
<v Speaker 1>You've never broken the law in your life. Maybe yeah,

0:48:33.600 --> 0:48:36.000
<v Speaker 1>you're not. You don't know how they act, you haven't

0:48:36.040 --> 0:48:38.799
<v Speaker 1>hung out with bad people. So he kind of knows that.

0:48:38.840 --> 0:48:42.440
<v Speaker 2>He knows he's drawing from a rich well of experience.

0:48:42.840 --> 0:48:44.840
<v Speaker 2>And also it's the thing I think of on TikTok

0:48:44.880 --> 0:48:47.680
<v Speaker 2>all the time, which is people don't understand what good

0:48:47.680 --> 0:48:51.560
<v Speaker 2>acting is. They think that good acting is like the thing,

0:48:51.600 --> 0:48:52.840
<v Speaker 2>and it's like no, no, no, you have to go

0:48:52.920 --> 0:48:55.640
<v Speaker 2>way under and make people think you're not doing anything.

0:48:55.719 --> 0:48:56.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I can't do that.

0:48:56.880 --> 0:48:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah it's hard. It's very hard. It's a true skill.

0:48:59.800 --> 0:49:02.000
<v Speaker 2>But for somebody that's actually going under cover, it's like,

0:49:02.040 --> 0:49:04.239
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure they saw this guy. We're like, holy shit,

0:49:04.280 --> 0:49:06.840
<v Speaker 2>he's so believable. Get him while you can, because the

0:49:06.880 --> 0:49:08.680
<v Speaker 2>other guys are like, i'll put my part on the

0:49:08.680 --> 0:49:12.600
<v Speaker 2>other side and then we'll get him Nancy. So it's

0:49:12.680 --> 0:49:17.000
<v Speaker 2>dangerous work. Of course. Moon regularly works nights to ingratiate

0:49:17.080 --> 0:49:19.919
<v Speaker 2>himself with the local criminals while investigating a full range

0:49:19.920 --> 0:49:22.920
<v Speaker 2>of crimes. He gets shot at, he is robbed, he

0:49:23.000 --> 0:49:26.280
<v Speaker 2>is beaten, but his legend grows with each new job,

0:49:26.480 --> 0:49:30.360
<v Speaker 2>which usually ends in a big cinematic sting operation and

0:49:30.440 --> 0:49:33.399
<v Speaker 2>multiple arrests. So he goes in and he does his time,

0:49:33.440 --> 0:49:35.759
<v Speaker 2>and he makes his friends and then he all blows up.

0:49:35.800 --> 0:49:38.200
<v Speaker 2>And I love these though, because then he gets arrested

0:49:38.239 --> 0:49:40.279
<v Speaker 2>on the scene too and taken away. I always was like,

0:49:40.320 --> 0:49:41.799
<v Speaker 2>how does he move on to the next thing when

0:49:41.840 --> 0:49:44.040
<v Speaker 2>they all know that he's the app the guy forget it?

0:49:44.120 --> 0:49:45.840
<v Speaker 2>You get it with a.

0:49:45.840 --> 0:49:48.239
<v Speaker 1>Lot of Coca cola drink to that and power through it.

0:49:48.640 --> 0:49:51.640
<v Speaker 2>No, exactly, And I think that keeping people's cover is

0:49:52.000 --> 0:49:55.200
<v Speaker 2>so crucial, But then again, you just I just want

0:49:55.239 --> 0:49:57.960
<v Speaker 2>to keep on putting it in. The parameters of this

0:49:58.040 --> 0:50:01.600
<v Speaker 2>was the War on drugs, which was logical kind of

0:50:01.640 --> 0:50:05.919
<v Speaker 2>like the rebirth of like that cop culture of leave

0:50:05.960 --> 0:50:07.320
<v Speaker 2>it to them they know best.

0:50:07.440 --> 0:50:09.839
<v Speaker 1>It's like the police state. That's what it. I mean,

0:50:09.880 --> 0:50:12.120
<v Speaker 1>not that it's not now we all know that, but like, well,

0:50:12.160 --> 0:50:13.399
<v Speaker 1>that's kind of when it was.

0:50:13.560 --> 0:50:16.080
<v Speaker 2>The source of it, where everyone jumped on board and said, no,

0:50:16.200 --> 0:50:17.920
<v Speaker 2>this is the best way to handle our problems.

0:50:17.960 --> 0:50:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if you're not doing anything wrong, then you shouldn't

0:50:20.600 --> 0:50:21.359
<v Speaker 1>you know all that.

0:50:21.360 --> 0:50:23.719
<v Speaker 2>Shit that Now in twenty twenty six, it's like people

0:50:23.760 --> 0:50:25.319
<v Speaker 2>are just like, oh, wait a second, did they not

0:50:25.719 --> 0:50:28.640
<v Speaker 2>have our best interest? Right? As the robot dog with

0:50:28.760 --> 0:50:31.080
<v Speaker 2>guns attached to its head walks down and.

0:50:31.320 --> 0:50:33.239
<v Speaker 1>The only the only good thing that came out of

0:50:33.280 --> 0:50:34.160
<v Speaker 1>the War on drugs.

0:50:34.400 --> 0:50:36.680
<v Speaker 2>I have it at my house. Murderino gave it to me.

0:50:37.320 --> 0:50:39.680
<v Speaker 2>It's the fucking case that you open up and they

0:50:39.719 --> 0:50:41.839
<v Speaker 2>show you every kind of drug that you could get

0:50:41.880 --> 0:50:44.759
<v Speaker 2>that they brought to an elementary school and showed all

0:50:44.760 --> 0:50:46.640
<v Speaker 2>the kids what a do be looked like and what

0:50:46.719 --> 0:50:49.520
<v Speaker 2>fucking quailus looked like, and so murdering knows dad was

0:50:49.520 --> 0:50:52.200
<v Speaker 2>a cop when in her fucking garage. Yes, sent it

0:50:52.200 --> 0:50:55.600
<v Speaker 2>to me. Here's the DARE program in a case.

0:50:55.440 --> 0:50:57.279
<v Speaker 1>Treasure I have to I'll bring it for a fan

0:50:57.360 --> 0:50:57.840
<v Speaker 1>call video.

0:50:57.920 --> 0:51:00.000
<v Speaker 2>That's a great idea. That's a that was a true

0:51:00.040 --> 0:51:01.160
<v Speaker 2>highlight of our early days.

0:51:01.560 --> 0:51:03.719
<v Speaker 1>Every time I see it, I'm like, this, everything's worth it.

0:51:03.800 --> 0:51:05.480
<v Speaker 1>All the down's worth.

0:51:05.280 --> 0:51:08.200
<v Speaker 2>It for that and those haunted dolls that we had

0:51:08.239 --> 0:51:12.319
<v Speaker 2>for a while that we really piqued. We'll get back

0:51:12.320 --> 0:51:15.200
<v Speaker 2>there someday. Okay. So the thing about this guy is

0:51:15.239 --> 0:51:17.080
<v Speaker 2>that he was really in it, and he was really

0:51:17.120 --> 0:51:19.799
<v Speaker 2>doing it so like, for example, one of his most

0:51:19.840 --> 0:51:23.080
<v Speaker 2>famous arrests was he goes to a local carnival and

0:51:23.120 --> 0:51:26.759
<v Speaker 2>he follows a suspect onto the Zipper, my favorite ride

0:51:26.800 --> 0:51:29.600
<v Speaker 2>at the carnival that I've talked about postil times. He

0:51:29.640 --> 0:51:32.279
<v Speaker 2>actually like does stuff like that and arrest.

0:51:32.200 --> 0:51:35.680
<v Speaker 1>Go on, bro, No, the arrest stand over there.

0:51:35.480 --> 0:51:39.239
<v Speaker 2>He's like spinning in a circle chasing him, and the

0:51:39.400 --> 0:51:43.000
<v Speaker 2>eternal like you'll always be behind him. Another time he

0:51:43.120 --> 0:51:45.919
<v Speaker 2>posts a fake obituary for a living suspect that he's

0:51:45.960 --> 0:51:49.520
<v Speaker 2>just apprehended and stages a fake funeral for him. And

0:51:49.560 --> 0:51:53.000
<v Speaker 2>when that suspects criminal associates show upright and more in him,

0:51:53.760 --> 0:51:56.960
<v Speaker 2>pays respects, moon arrests a bunch of so smart so

0:51:57.080 --> 0:52:00.680
<v Speaker 2>for background. Officers in most cases are allowed to use

0:52:00.680 --> 0:52:04.000
<v Speaker 2>deception to lure suspects to an arrest, but it becomes

0:52:04.200 --> 0:52:07.840
<v Speaker 2>entrapment if the officer's actions directly result in a suspect

0:52:07.880 --> 0:52:10.439
<v Speaker 2>committee a crime they otherwise would not have committed. Right,

0:52:10.640 --> 0:52:12.759
<v Speaker 2>So there's a kind of a difference there where it's

0:52:12.800 --> 0:52:15.560
<v Speaker 2>like that used to be the concern that's the surpaco

0:52:15.719 --> 0:52:18.600
<v Speaker 2>world of like crooked cops versus the ones that are

0:52:18.600 --> 0:52:19.120
<v Speaker 2>trying to do.

0:52:19.080 --> 0:52:22.840
<v Speaker 1>Good planting you can't plant evidence, but no, blah blah blah.

0:52:22.840 --> 0:52:25.680
<v Speaker 2>And I think this is where all of that starts

0:52:25.680 --> 0:52:29.360
<v Speaker 2>to flip in that serious way of there's this weird

0:52:29.600 --> 0:52:33.000
<v Speaker 2>kind of trust of like, you know, your local authorities

0:52:33.040 --> 0:52:34.719
<v Speaker 2>are going to fight a war on drugs and we're

0:52:34.760 --> 0:52:37.479
<v Speaker 2>all going to support them in it, and that idea, Yeah,

0:52:37.480 --> 0:52:39.759
<v Speaker 2>it's for the greater good. It's getting drugs out of

0:52:39.840 --> 0:52:42.920
<v Speaker 2>children's hands. When it's like, that's not what's happening. It's

0:52:42.920 --> 0:52:45.560
<v Speaker 2>not what happened being fucking lied to, and how did

0:52:45.560 --> 0:52:49.040
<v Speaker 2>those drugs get onto the street in the first place? Right, Okay,

0:52:49.080 --> 0:52:52.759
<v Speaker 2>So back to this undercover cop Moon, who is very dedicated.

0:52:52.920 --> 0:52:57.400
<v Speaker 2>He actually meets his wife while working undercover. He arrests

0:52:57.400 --> 0:52:58.800
<v Speaker 2>her brother for making a bomb.

0:52:59.000 --> 0:53:01.040
<v Speaker 1>Does he trick her? I hate that part. They do

0:53:01.080 --> 0:53:03.040
<v Speaker 1>get married and stuff, and like the wife doesn't know.

0:53:03.400 --> 0:53:04.919
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, no she does, Oh she does.

0:53:05.000 --> 0:53:08.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yes, So basically he has to go undercover to

0:53:08.960 --> 0:53:11.120
<v Speaker 2>meet the brother to arrest him for bomb making, and

0:53:11.160 --> 0:53:14.000
<v Speaker 2>then he's like, well the once, once, that is over.

0:53:14.080 --> 0:53:16.840
<v Speaker 2>So now we're in nineteen ninety. Moon is working undercover

0:53:16.960 --> 0:53:20.719
<v Speaker 2>in the Flint, Michigan area, investigating the local drug trade,

0:53:21.320 --> 0:53:24.080
<v Speaker 2>and based on reporting, it seems that this drug trade

0:53:24.120 --> 0:53:27.080
<v Speaker 2>was much more pot focus than it was crack cocaine focused.

0:53:27.680 --> 0:53:30.520
<v Speaker 2>He is working alongside a thirty eight year old Flint

0:53:30.520 --> 0:53:34.560
<v Speaker 2>police officer named Debbie Williams and Jeff Maish. The author

0:53:34.640 --> 0:53:37.759
<v Speaker 2>from that Atlantic article describes Debbie as one of only

0:53:37.760 --> 0:53:41.000
<v Speaker 2>a few women who quote crawled, shot, and boxed her

0:53:41.040 --> 0:53:44.120
<v Speaker 2>way through the male dominated police academy. In Flint.

0:53:44.320 --> 0:53:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, and doctor Clary starling over here.

0:53:47.200 --> 0:53:50.200
<v Speaker 2>Right, she had to jump over that thing gray sweatshirt.

0:53:51.280 --> 0:53:54.719
<v Speaker 2>So Moon and Debbie work undercover together, posing his boyfriend

0:53:54.800 --> 0:53:58.400
<v Speaker 2>and girlfriend drug addicts. Okay, Debbie will later say quote,

0:53:58.400 --> 0:54:00.360
<v Speaker 2>I had to tell Moon, you have to remember to

0:54:00.400 --> 0:54:02.319
<v Speaker 2>pretend you're in love with me. He was kind of

0:54:02.320 --> 0:54:06.040
<v Speaker 2>embarrassed by it all. So he wasn't a great actor.

0:54:06.040 --> 0:54:08.799
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure it was just like him as himself. But

0:54:08.840 --> 0:54:10.480
<v Speaker 2>then Debbie comes long and they have to kind of

0:54:10.480 --> 0:54:13.799
<v Speaker 2>set up these things. It was one of his characters

0:54:14.480 --> 0:54:16.560
<v Speaker 2>was in a relationship, and so he had to pretend

0:54:16.560 --> 0:54:18.200
<v Speaker 2>like he was in a relationship, and that's when his

0:54:18.280 --> 0:54:22.840
<v Speaker 2>acting got stressed, strained, a little bit weird. Right, But

0:54:22.920 --> 0:54:25.840
<v Speaker 2>to the people that they are regularly buying drugs from

0:54:26.000 --> 0:54:29.719
<v Speaker 2>the couple is believable. Debbie has bright blonde hair and

0:54:29.760 --> 0:54:32.479
<v Speaker 2>a stoner persona, and it seems like a natural fit

0:54:32.840 --> 0:54:37.800
<v Speaker 2>with Moon's bearded, chainsmoking, kind of tough guy persona. Rounding

0:54:37.800 --> 0:54:40.680
<v Speaker 2>out this team is Sergeant Vic was solition of the

0:54:40.719 --> 0:54:44.879
<v Speaker 2>shiawassee County Sheriff's Department. Vix in his mid forties. He's

0:54:45.040 --> 0:54:49.279
<v Speaker 2>essential to this operation because Basically, Moon and Debbie go

0:54:49.520 --> 0:54:51.279
<v Speaker 2>and they hang out, they make their drug deals and

0:54:51.280 --> 0:54:53.040
<v Speaker 2>they buy and they talk to people, and then they

0:54:53.080 --> 0:54:56.560
<v Speaker 2>meet covertly with Vic. They get into a car, usually

0:54:56.560 --> 0:54:59.960
<v Speaker 2>in a remote parking lot. They do basically an info dump.

0:55:00.200 --> 0:55:02.279
<v Speaker 2>Tell him everything they've just seen and heard in the

0:55:02.360 --> 0:55:05.399
<v Speaker 2>names and the dates and everything into a recorder he has,

0:55:05.920 --> 0:55:08.680
<v Speaker 2>and then that will later be kind of processed and

0:55:08.760 --> 0:55:12.680
<v Speaker 2>used as evidence. Vic knows the undercover world himself. In

0:55:12.719 --> 0:55:16.000
<v Speaker 2>the eighties, he worked as a when undercover is a

0:55:16.040 --> 0:55:20.600
<v Speaker 2>biker named Animal to infiltrate the local cocaine trade. That

0:55:20.760 --> 0:55:23.640
<v Speaker 2>was very dangerous. He found himself walking a tight line

0:55:23.640 --> 0:55:26.600
<v Speaker 2>between not blowing his cover and not breaking the law.

0:55:26.719 --> 0:55:29.439
<v Speaker 2>Do they have to do drugs, Well, it's interesting that's

0:55:29.520 --> 0:55:32.560
<v Speaker 2>illegal that they do drugs. But then of course testing

0:55:32.920 --> 0:55:35.160
<v Speaker 2>people and making them do drugs to prove they're not

0:55:35.200 --> 0:55:38.680
<v Speaker 2>cops is very common, so there are times where to

0:55:38.880 --> 0:55:43.360
<v Speaker 2>keep covered they do have to do it. So, for example,

0:55:43.400 --> 0:55:46.480
<v Speaker 2>once a man shoved a gun in Vic's face demanding

0:55:46.480 --> 0:55:48.440
<v Speaker 2>he smoke a joint to prove he wasn't a cop.

0:55:48.920 --> 0:55:52.880
<v Speaker 2>Obviously he smoked the joint, but he usually found ways

0:55:52.920 --> 0:55:55.120
<v Speaker 2>they got very creative about how to stay clean in

0:55:55.160 --> 0:55:58.760
<v Speaker 2>those situations. He actually carried around a modified coke straw

0:55:59.120 --> 0:56:02.560
<v Speaker 2>that had special blockage kind of compartment inside so he

0:56:02.560 --> 0:56:05.200
<v Speaker 2>could snort coke and it would catch the coke in

0:56:05.239 --> 0:56:07.680
<v Speaker 2>the straw but never go into his nose.

0:56:07.840 --> 0:56:10.440
<v Speaker 1>Wow, bummer, totally what a waste.

0:56:10.480 --> 0:56:14.759
<v Speaker 2>I mean, yeah, So, because then they would have to

0:56:14.760 --> 0:56:17.080
<v Speaker 2>get drug tested. I mean, they couldn't lose people to

0:56:17.200 --> 0:56:20.759
<v Speaker 2>become drug addicts, right, because drugs are bad for you.

0:56:20.840 --> 0:56:20.920
<v Speaker 1>Ye.

0:56:21.320 --> 0:56:26.000
<v Speaker 2>So Ultimately, Moon, Debbie, and Vic spend months building relationships

0:56:26.440 --> 0:56:29.719
<v Speaker 2>with these local dealers and then criminal cases against them.

0:56:30.080 --> 0:56:31.960
<v Speaker 2>But Moon has spent more than a decade in law

0:56:32.040 --> 0:56:35.879
<v Speaker 2>enforcement at this point, and this high risk work isn't

0:56:35.920 --> 0:56:38.440
<v Speaker 2>paying that much. He and his wife, Beth now have

0:56:38.480 --> 0:56:41.879
<v Speaker 2>small children, and she will later say, quote, there were

0:56:41.920 --> 0:56:44.440
<v Speaker 2>times we couldn't afford to eat and I felt bitter.

0:56:44.840 --> 0:56:47.640
<v Speaker 2>Wow yeah yeah. All I ever wanted was a roof

0:56:47.680 --> 0:56:51.239
<v Speaker 2>over our head end quote. So together they dream of

0:56:51.280 --> 0:56:54.880
<v Speaker 2>a quieter, easier life, maybe back in Moon's native North Carolina,

0:56:55.280 --> 0:56:59.120
<v Speaker 2>where they could buy land and settle down. So that's

0:56:59.200 --> 0:57:00.920
<v Speaker 2>kind of the plan that they come up with, But

0:57:01.360 --> 0:57:04.319
<v Speaker 2>of course Moon wants to do one last big job.

0:57:04.400 --> 0:57:06.160
<v Speaker 1>You can never do one last big job.

0:57:06.280 --> 0:57:09.560
<v Speaker 2>They always have to. These men spend. The longer the beard,

0:57:09.880 --> 0:57:12.480
<v Speaker 2>the more they have to do one last big So

0:57:12.719 --> 0:57:17.080
<v Speaker 2>in September of nineteen ninety, Moon pulls Vick aside and says, quote,

0:57:17.400 --> 0:57:19.000
<v Speaker 2>I'd kind of like to go out with a bang.

0:57:19.360 --> 0:57:23.480
<v Speaker 2>Do you got any ideas? So Vic says, yes, I do, buddy,

0:57:24.080 --> 0:57:27.160
<v Speaker 2>because Vick has come up with the ultimate drug sting,

0:57:28.080 --> 0:57:31.120
<v Speaker 2>one that enables them to arrest all the suspects they've

0:57:31.160 --> 0:57:34.120
<v Speaker 2>been investigating over the last several months in one big

0:57:34.160 --> 0:57:37.960
<v Speaker 2>fell swoop, while saving the local cash strapped police departments

0:57:38.000 --> 0:57:42.080
<v Speaker 2>big money, A wedding, A wedding, I love it, A

0:57:42.160 --> 0:57:45.120
<v Speaker 2>fucking wedding. Oh they're gonna throw a fake wedding. What's

0:57:45.200 --> 0:57:47.640
<v Speaker 2>crazy to me is reading the phrase the local cash

0:57:47.680 --> 0:57:51.040
<v Speaker 2>strapped police departments, which here in twenty twenty six just

0:57:51.080 --> 0:57:55.280
<v Speaker 2>doesn't exist anymore, because they figured out politically, you take

0:57:55.360 --> 0:57:58.400
<v Speaker 2>the war on drugs energy, you keep building that of

0:57:58.800 --> 0:58:02.160
<v Speaker 2>we've got a fire time, fear, fear, fear, and now

0:58:02.160 --> 0:58:05.280
<v Speaker 2>we have police budget lines that are one hundred times

0:58:05.440 --> 0:58:10.120
<v Speaker 2>longer than any other budget, and the teachers make minus

0:58:10.200 --> 0:58:14.360
<v Speaker 2>five hundred dollars a day. Curiously, it's fucking insanity, Okay,

0:58:14.440 --> 0:58:17.720
<v Speaker 2>there to say that every time. So the same afternoon

0:58:17.960 --> 0:58:21.480
<v Speaker 2>that Vic and Moon are having this discussion, Moon calls

0:58:21.640 --> 0:58:24.120
<v Speaker 2>his partner, Debbie and asks her to fake marry him.

0:58:24.320 --> 0:58:29.400
<v Speaker 2>She says sure, And now the Shiawassee. County Sheriff's Department

0:58:29.520 --> 0:58:32.840
<v Speaker 2>allots a very tight budget for this team to pull

0:58:32.840 --> 0:58:36.440
<v Speaker 2>off this wedding sting, so they shift into planning mode.

0:58:36.800 --> 0:58:39.840
<v Speaker 2>Writer Jeff Mash reports, quote, in the weeks leading up

0:58:39.840 --> 0:58:43.000
<v Speaker 2>to the wedding, cops put aside crime reports and fingerprints

0:58:43.000 --> 0:58:45.520
<v Speaker 2>to work on seating plans and floral arrangements.

0:58:45.880 --> 0:58:48.320
<v Speaker 1>What if one of them was like secretly.

0:58:47.840 --> 0:58:49.840
<v Speaker 2>Like this is all I've heard, I'm so good at this.

0:58:49.960 --> 0:58:51.720
<v Speaker 1>And then like quit to become a wedding planner.

0:58:51.840 --> 0:58:54.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but they're the guy that's like standing there with

0:58:54.640 --> 0:58:56.959
<v Speaker 2>the short cigar and like the you know, the comb

0:58:57.000 --> 0:59:00.680
<v Speaker 2>over never know, and he just like taps into something beautiful.

0:59:00.720 --> 0:59:03.480
<v Speaker 2>He has a true vision. Well, that didn't happen in

0:59:03.480 --> 0:59:07.720
<v Speaker 2>this wedding because it's so hilariously bad and funny to me.

0:59:08.560 --> 0:59:10.280
<v Speaker 2>So in the week's leading up to the wedding, the

0:59:10.320 --> 0:59:13.440
<v Speaker 2>operations room began to sound like a wedding planner's office

0:59:13.480 --> 0:59:18.000
<v Speaker 2>as grizzled lawman interrogated caterers. During briefings. They discussed whether

0:59:18.040 --> 0:59:20.560
<v Speaker 2>the bride should wear her hair up or down, how

0:59:20.640 --> 0:59:23.360
<v Speaker 2>much they would spend on food, and how they would

0:59:23.400 --> 0:59:25.320
<v Speaker 2>squeeze Moon into a tuxedo.

0:59:26.160 --> 0:59:27.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god.

0:59:27.840 --> 0:59:30.080
<v Speaker 2>He's a little the beard got trimmed from that first

0:59:30.120 --> 0:59:30.720
<v Speaker 2>picture you saw.

0:59:30.800 --> 0:59:33.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he looks like a trucker, like a biker. Yeah,

0:59:33.800 --> 0:59:35.880
<v Speaker 1>for sure, he's very tired. I like that tile in

0:59:35.880 --> 0:59:37.480
<v Speaker 1>the bathroom that's neither here nor there.

0:59:37.520 --> 0:59:39.760
<v Speaker 2>That looks like every live show we've ever done where

0:59:39.760 --> 0:59:42.120
<v Speaker 2>we're just like totally. I come out and I'm like, hey,

0:59:42.120 --> 0:59:43.920
<v Speaker 2>can you pull these banks up? Help me pulls.

0:59:44.240 --> 0:59:45.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how I'm going to zip this.

0:59:46.600 --> 0:59:50.280
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So the wedding data set. It's September twenty first,

0:59:50.480 --> 0:59:53.440
<v Speaker 2>this wedding's going to be held at a discreete modestly sized,

0:59:53.480 --> 0:59:57.760
<v Speaker 2>and importantly inexpensive community hall near Owsa, Michigan.

0:59:57.880 --> 1:00:01.200
<v Speaker 1>The buffet tables, oh yeah, can just see them.

1:00:01.200 --> 1:00:04.240
<v Speaker 2>Those fold out? Yeah, great long numbers and they put

1:00:04.240 --> 1:00:06.720
<v Speaker 2>a nice paper tablecloth over the top. Oh my god,

1:00:06.840 --> 1:00:10.080
<v Speaker 2>debian Moon continue buying drugs and collecting evidence. Only now

1:00:10.160 --> 1:00:12.440
<v Speaker 2>when they do it, they share the happy news with

1:00:12.480 --> 1:00:14.880
<v Speaker 2>all of their drug friends and they start handing out

1:00:14.880 --> 1:00:19.040
<v Speaker 2>wedding invitations to these people, aka the dozens of suspects

1:00:19.040 --> 1:00:21.280
<v Speaker 2>that they're trying to and trap in this ring. Sure

1:00:21.440 --> 1:00:24.439
<v Speaker 2>not in trap, sorry, that they're trying to invite to participate.

1:00:25.320 --> 1:00:26.600
<v Speaker 1>It's interesting in.

1:00:26.600 --> 1:00:29.000
<v Speaker 2>This kind of means thing because also I was thinking

1:00:29.040 --> 1:00:32.280
<v Speaker 2>about it where it's like, so they're there buying pot.

1:00:32.360 --> 1:00:35.320
<v Speaker 2>It sounds like buying coke here and there maybe who knows,

1:00:35.920 --> 1:00:38.439
<v Speaker 2>and just kind of hanging out with people. And then

1:00:38.560 --> 1:00:40.560
<v Speaker 2>these people they're like, hey, do you want to come

1:00:40.600 --> 1:00:41.560
<v Speaker 2>and celebrate our love?

1:00:41.640 --> 1:00:43.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, I'm so touched that you'd invite me,

1:00:43.840 --> 1:00:45.880
<v Speaker 1>Like I didn't know we were that close, but like

1:00:45.920 --> 1:00:47.000
<v Speaker 1>that really means a lot to me.

1:00:47.200 --> 1:00:49.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I'm just selling this pot because I'm trying

1:00:49.280 --> 1:00:52.680
<v Speaker 2>to get by. And yeah, in forty years, HBO or

1:00:52.880 --> 1:00:55.000
<v Speaker 2>Showtime is going to make a series about how it's

1:00:55.000 --> 1:00:57.160
<v Speaker 2>cool if this mom is just selling some pot. But

1:00:57.280 --> 1:00:59.840
<v Speaker 2>for right now, we have lived in a society that

1:01:00.040 --> 1:01:02.080
<v Speaker 2>leaves we should go to jail for fifty.

1:01:01.840 --> 1:01:03.880
<v Speaker 1>Years because of it. Let me get you a wedding

1:01:03.960 --> 1:01:06.760
<v Speaker 1>gift too. That's the most fucked up thing is they

1:01:06.760 --> 1:01:09.680
<v Speaker 1>all arrive with a fucking blender. I mean, yes, I

1:01:09.720 --> 1:01:11.960
<v Speaker 1>want my blenderback, is what I'd fucking say. They get

1:01:11.960 --> 1:01:12.600
<v Speaker 1>thank you notes.

1:01:12.720 --> 1:01:15.640
<v Speaker 2>I will see, because who knows the level of dirt

1:01:15.640 --> 1:01:18.080
<v Speaker 2>bag that this wedding truly goes to. It would be

1:01:18.160 --> 1:01:21.160
<v Speaker 2>kind of fun to be able to see. But spoiler alert,

1:01:21.200 --> 1:01:23.520
<v Speaker 2>it has been optioned to be made into a movie

1:01:24.000 --> 1:01:26.840
<v Speaker 2>because of course this is that kind of like, only

1:01:26.880 --> 1:01:29.200
<v Speaker 2>in America in nineteen ninety could this thing happen.

1:01:29.240 --> 1:01:29.640
<v Speaker 1>Amazing.

1:01:30.200 --> 1:01:33.520
<v Speaker 2>So now it's the night of September twenty first, and

1:01:33.560 --> 1:01:36.040
<v Speaker 2>guests begin to show up to the venue just before

1:01:36.120 --> 1:01:38.880
<v Speaker 2>six pm. VIC is posted in one of the cars

1:01:38.880 --> 1:01:42.160
<v Speaker 2>out in the parking lot, clocking each suspect as they enter.

1:01:42.640 --> 1:01:45.000
<v Speaker 2>Outside the venue, guests are greeted by a big sign

1:01:45.040 --> 1:01:48.120
<v Speaker 2>telling them to check their weapons before entering. So smart

1:01:48.240 --> 1:01:51.560
<v Speaker 2>and most people comply, leaving their guns, knives, and I

1:01:51.640 --> 1:01:55.200
<v Speaker 2>added brass knuckles in their cars. They go back to

1:01:55.240 --> 1:02:01.560
<v Speaker 2>the car unload everything, hammer a sigh they have, like.

1:02:01.520 --> 1:02:03.040
<v Speaker 1>But take your wedding gift and it's just a little

1:02:03.040 --> 1:02:06.320
<v Speaker 1>baggy of coke. Yeah, it's like not entrapman or planting

1:02:06.360 --> 1:02:07.920
<v Speaker 1>it if you took it and put it in your pocket.

1:02:08.000 --> 1:02:09.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's right. They take their coke and they put

1:02:09.720 --> 1:02:13.800
<v Speaker 2>it in a beautiful wedding car with Jordan Almonds. Yeah,

1:02:13.840 --> 1:02:15.840
<v Speaker 2>God damn, Jordan Almonds used to bum me out as

1:02:15.840 --> 1:02:16.120
<v Speaker 2>a kid.

1:02:16.200 --> 1:02:17.000
<v Speaker 1>It's such a bummer.

1:02:17.200 --> 1:02:18.560
<v Speaker 2>First of all, I was like, are we allowed to

1:02:18.600 --> 1:02:20.960
<v Speaker 2>open this netting? Why are we digging into nettings?

1:02:21.040 --> 1:02:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Disgusting?

1:02:21.640 --> 1:02:25.200
<v Speaker 2>And that's just for a shitty old almond okay, not

1:02:25.280 --> 1:02:29.040
<v Speaker 2>even salted, okay, not salted, not chocolated. Once the guests

1:02:29.040 --> 1:02:33.200
<v Speaker 2>get inside, there's an open bar, there's music, and there's dancing,

1:02:33.320 --> 1:02:36.680
<v Speaker 2>and they're having a raffle. Okay for about one hundred dollars,

1:02:36.720 --> 1:02:38.880
<v Speaker 2>which would be how much in today's money six hundred,

1:02:39.200 --> 1:02:42.480
<v Speaker 2>two hundred and fifty Sully nineteen ninety. You can enter

1:02:42.560 --> 1:02:46.280
<v Speaker 2>to win a chance to win an entire brick of marijuana. Okay.

1:02:46.440 --> 1:02:50.040
<v Speaker 1>A raffle at a wedding is like, fuck, yes, it's hilarious.

1:02:50.120 --> 1:02:52.600
<v Speaker 1>I love it. And a brick of marijuana is not

1:02:52.680 --> 1:02:53.400
<v Speaker 1>as cool.

1:02:53.320 --> 1:02:54.520
<v Speaker 2>Which is stacked nearby.

1:02:54.680 --> 1:02:55.560
<v Speaker 1>That's so funny.

1:02:55.600 --> 1:03:01.040
<v Speaker 2>I would like to think is it cush if I Walkeddica.

1:03:01.080 --> 1:03:02.640
<v Speaker 2>What are we talking that? If I walked in, I'd

1:03:02.640 --> 1:03:06.960
<v Speaker 2>be like, open bar raffle for weed in a brick. Yeah,

1:03:07.000 --> 1:03:09.160
<v Speaker 2>this feels wrong. Yeah, this is all too good.

1:03:09.280 --> 1:03:12.120
<v Speaker 1>Totally. Yeah, but I do think we should start doing

1:03:12.200 --> 1:03:15.280
<v Speaker 1>raffles at weddings. Hell yeah, are you listening, listener?

1:03:15.440 --> 1:03:18.480
<v Speaker 2>Are you listening? Brides? You selfish brides and bite us

1:03:18.520 --> 1:03:20.680
<v Speaker 2>and also raffle off? Like what would be good to

1:03:20.720 --> 1:03:21.720
<v Speaker 2>get at a wedding.

1:03:21.720 --> 1:03:24.720
<v Speaker 1>One of the gifts. Pick a gift of the gifts

1:03:24.720 --> 1:03:25.160
<v Speaker 1>on the table.

1:03:25.240 --> 1:03:26.760
<v Speaker 2>You're like, oh my god, we got a new air fire.

1:03:26.960 --> 1:03:28.760
<v Speaker 1>You can't open it. You pick a gift off the

1:03:28.840 --> 1:03:29.800
<v Speaker 1>fucking that's.

1:03:29.640 --> 1:03:32.600
<v Speaker 2>A really good idea. Or like your raffle wins you.

1:03:32.600 --> 1:03:37.040
<v Speaker 2>You get to do the money dance move aside, bride you.

1:03:37.240 --> 1:03:41.440
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know about money dances until the Italian I

1:03:41.440 --> 1:03:43.480
<v Speaker 2>think a lot of cultures do it. I think so too.

1:03:43.520 --> 1:03:45.280
<v Speaker 1>It's fucking cool, not Irish Catholic.

1:03:45.360 --> 1:03:47.000
<v Speaker 2>We just get raised in a chair, which is pretty

1:03:47.040 --> 1:03:49.720
<v Speaker 2>fucking awesome forbid Irish Catholics. Tod be like, we don't

1:03:49.720 --> 1:03:53.880
<v Speaker 2>need your money. Assuming these bricks weigh about a pound each,

1:03:54.240 --> 1:03:57.480
<v Speaker 2>the weed in the raffle would be worth on the

1:03:57.520 --> 1:04:00.520
<v Speaker 2>street today in twenty twenty six, how much money a brick?

1:04:00.800 --> 1:04:01.960
<v Speaker 1>One hundred dollars for talking?

1:04:02.080 --> 1:04:04.520
<v Speaker 2>You said, yes, so if you only paid one hundred

1:04:04.680 --> 1:04:06.960
<v Speaker 2>for this brick, and how much I don't know how

1:04:07.000 --> 1:04:09.920
<v Speaker 2>much a brick's supposed to be? Yes, you do. We

1:04:09.960 --> 1:04:12.960
<v Speaker 2>all know you went to read them. Not for fucking weed,

1:04:14.000 --> 1:04:19.640
<v Speaker 2>not for selling bricks of weed street worth one thousand dollars.

1:04:19.320 --> 1:04:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Today in today's money entires money.

1:04:21.000 --> 1:04:23.520
<v Speaker 2>That's a lot, right, good for one hundred, Yeah, one

1:04:23.560 --> 1:04:25.520
<v Speaker 2>hundred for a thousand Take it and back to the

1:04:25.680 --> 1:04:28.840
<v Speaker 2>entrapment point from earlier. Right, Because they are not placing

1:04:28.880 --> 1:04:33.280
<v Speaker 2>these pot bricks into suspects hands directly, it's fine. They're

1:04:33.360 --> 1:04:36.800
<v Speaker 2>simply creating an opportunity for the suspects to bid on

1:04:36.880 --> 1:04:39.080
<v Speaker 2>them on their own volition. Therefore, it's not in.

1:04:39.160 --> 1:04:43.240
<v Speaker 1>Trappen that is tricky, tricky, tricky. Whoever, whatever fucking police

1:04:43.240 --> 1:04:46.960
<v Speaker 1>officer came up with that idea got a raise or whatever.

1:04:47.040 --> 1:04:49.200
<v Speaker 2>I mean. I think so got a brick of weed.

1:04:49.320 --> 1:04:51.120
<v Speaker 2>It got a brick of weed. But all of it

1:04:51.200 --> 1:04:54.840
<v Speaker 2>is a little bit like people really enjoying the school

1:04:54.920 --> 1:04:58.720
<v Speaker 2>play energy too much. Yeah, because I'm like I would

1:04:58.720 --> 1:05:01.320
<v Speaker 2>have been there, like, sorry, they don't have raffles or

1:05:01.800 --> 1:05:04.880
<v Speaker 2>tables full of gifts, right that you're raffling at a wedding.

1:05:05.360 --> 1:05:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Boys gone wild.

1:05:08.320 --> 1:05:09.400
<v Speaker 1>It's a movie. It's a movie.

1:05:09.440 --> 1:05:11.880
<v Speaker 2>It's a movie of too many boys. And there's Debbie

1:05:11.920 --> 1:05:14.240
<v Speaker 2>running around. She can't fix everything, you like, that's not

1:05:14.280 --> 1:05:15.040
<v Speaker 2>really realistic.

1:05:15.240 --> 1:05:18.880
<v Speaker 1>It's Marca Robbie for sure. Right, it's like Margaret Robbie

1:05:18.920 --> 1:05:21.240
<v Speaker 1>for like like Nancy what was her name, not Nancy

1:05:21.280 --> 1:05:24.600
<v Speaker 1>Tanya Harding, Yes, Margo just like a little bit trashy, a.

1:05:24.560 --> 1:05:28.240
<v Speaker 2>Little trashy, a little bad perme because actually, well this

1:05:28.440 --> 1:05:32.200
<v Speaker 2>is them from the day. So we have Debbie in

1:05:32.240 --> 1:05:35.320
<v Speaker 2>her wedding dress that she that that actually Beth Moon's

1:05:35.320 --> 1:05:37.400
<v Speaker 2>wife found for her at the Salvation Army.

1:05:37.440 --> 1:05:42.280
<v Speaker 1>Hell yeah, oh is so eighties but I know it's nineties.

1:05:42.320 --> 1:05:44.240
<v Speaker 1>But is that him in the background? Is that Moon?

1:05:44.400 --> 1:05:48.160
<v Speaker 2>No, that's actually Vic in the background. Okay, yeah that's Vic.

1:05:48.400 --> 1:05:51.440
<v Speaker 1>Wow, she looks so happy.

1:05:51.560 --> 1:05:53.160
<v Speaker 2>Because she loves tricking people.

1:05:53.800 --> 1:05:57.439
<v Speaker 1>So okay, yeah, that's Margaret Robbie with a fucking right.

1:05:58.160 --> 1:06:01.680
<v Speaker 2>Yes, the wedding is convince to the saaspects that are

1:06:02.120 --> 1:06:05.120
<v Speaker 2>slash guests that are there especially considering the room is

1:06:05.280 --> 1:06:09.280
<v Speaker 2>crawling with law enforcement, who, unlike the unwitting guests, are

1:06:09.360 --> 1:06:12.040
<v Speaker 2>carrying fire arms under their suit jackets and dresses.

1:06:12.080 --> 1:06:12.720
<v Speaker 1>Yes they are.

1:06:13.000 --> 1:06:16.080
<v Speaker 2>And there's at least one local reporter that Moon tipped

1:06:16.120 --> 1:06:19.800
<v Speaker 2>off promising a big exciting drug bust, you know, because

1:06:19.800 --> 1:06:22.520
<v Speaker 2>he wants us to go down. Right, So the wedding

1:06:22.520 --> 1:06:27.480
<v Speaker 2>photographer is actually a photojournalist, amazing, right. Meanwhile, the wedding

1:06:27.520 --> 1:06:32.439
<v Speaker 2>cake is just cardboard covered with frosting. Okay, all right,

1:06:32.680 --> 1:06:35.600
<v Speaker 2>it's a cost saving measure that the police have taken.

1:06:35.840 --> 1:06:40.280
<v Speaker 2>But the frosting has been professionally decorated with little bees

1:06:40.960 --> 1:06:44.160
<v Speaker 2>because it's the inside joke of this as a sting operation.

1:06:45.120 --> 1:06:45.880
<v Speaker 1>You guys.

1:06:46.000 --> 1:06:49.000
<v Speaker 2>So they very much fun. They're having fun, go to work.

1:06:49.200 --> 1:06:52.600
<v Speaker 2>They really are, just like, that's funny. Let's ruin some

1:06:52.680 --> 1:06:55.520
<v Speaker 2>lives and have a great time doing it. Yeah. The

1:06:55.600 --> 1:06:59.800
<v Speaker 2>music provided for this wedding, the live wedding band is

1:06:59.840 --> 1:07:03.320
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of dudes, and the band is called SPOC

1:07:04.120 --> 1:07:06.920
<v Speaker 2>and it's short for Somebody Protect Our Crops?

1:07:07.720 --> 1:07:08.560
<v Speaker 1>Is it a real band?

1:07:08.600 --> 1:07:11.560
<v Speaker 2>But they are no, the crops being marijuana.

1:07:11.720 --> 1:07:11.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:07:12.200 --> 1:07:14.640
<v Speaker 2>All of the members of the band are wearing matching

1:07:14.760 --> 1:07:15.840
<v Speaker 2>pot leaf t shirts.

1:07:16.000 --> 1:07:18.320
<v Speaker 1>Oh but heavy handed.

1:07:18.240 --> 1:07:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Very very corny corn. Yeah, they didn't care about the corn. Also,

1:07:22.280 --> 1:07:25.960
<v Speaker 2>it's an inside joke because Spocks well backwards as Copps

1:07:27.120 --> 1:07:30.280
<v Speaker 2>and the band are cops from different departments in the

1:07:30.320 --> 1:07:31.640
<v Speaker 2>area who.

1:07:31.280 --> 1:07:34.680
<v Speaker 1>They finally get to play their instruments.

1:07:33.960 --> 1:07:38.720
<v Speaker 2>And apparently they're fucking terrible. Everybody says, so good, Yes,

1:07:38.920 --> 1:07:40.920
<v Speaker 2>here's a picture of that band, So.

1:07:40.880 --> 1:07:43.120
<v Speaker 1>I need that. That's got to be our merch.

1:07:43.360 --> 1:07:47.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean, but it's like, it's so sorry. But it's

1:07:47.880 --> 1:07:51.880
<v Speaker 2>just like, hey, we're not cops. We love weed. And

1:07:52.800 --> 1:07:57.120
<v Speaker 2>it says fucking cops on it, like no stone or

1:07:57.160 --> 1:08:01.040
<v Speaker 2>would they go into the trouble to make fair? No? No,

1:08:01.200 --> 1:08:03.360
<v Speaker 2>And no band has ever made band shirts that they

1:08:03.360 --> 1:08:06.600
<v Speaker 2>then all wear. So Moon and Debbie invited about forty

1:08:06.640 --> 1:08:10.680
<v Speaker 2>people in their drug dealing and doing life. Only a

1:08:10.720 --> 1:08:13.520
<v Speaker 2>dozen or so show up. To those dozen that.

1:08:13.480 --> 1:08:15.600
<v Speaker 1>Did, that's such a pothead thing you can't invite.

1:08:16.000 --> 1:08:18.600
<v Speaker 2>Yes, exactly, it's just like, oh, it's all right, I

1:08:18.720 --> 1:08:21.559
<v Speaker 2>meant to tell you today. The ones that are there, like, man,

1:08:21.640 --> 1:08:25.640
<v Speaker 2>this is great. Yeah, So everyone takes their seats. The

1:08:25.720 --> 1:08:30.519
<v Speaker 2>ceremony begins. Debbie is walked down the aisle by her father,

1:08:31.160 --> 1:08:34.360
<v Speaker 2>who is actually an undercover cop. She's wearing a dress

1:08:34.600 --> 1:08:37.040
<v Speaker 2>as I said that Beth founded the Salvation Army for

1:08:37.080 --> 1:08:44.080
<v Speaker 2>seventeen dollars. Nice how much in today's money? For forty five? Oh? Yes,

1:08:44.200 --> 1:08:47.840
<v Speaker 2>nice one. You knew that because it was about triping. Sure,

1:08:47.880 --> 1:08:50.840
<v Speaker 2>I know how much is at the Also, Debbie's wearing

1:08:50.840 --> 1:08:53.400
<v Speaker 2>a garter on her thigh that holds a small gun.

1:08:53.600 --> 1:08:56.000
<v Speaker 1>If she cries, then she gets bonus points.

1:08:56.680 --> 1:08:59.160
<v Speaker 2>She's such a good actress. Ye, just the one single tear.

1:08:59.640 --> 1:09:02.880
<v Speaker 2>When they get to the altar, the minister who is

1:09:02.880 --> 1:09:04.599
<v Speaker 2>actually Flint's police sergeant.

1:09:04.920 --> 1:09:06.439
<v Speaker 1>Come on, they'd recognize him.

1:09:06.720 --> 1:09:10.639
<v Speaker 2>He's also in costume, so fake vows are exchanged and

1:09:10.680 --> 1:09:14.240
<v Speaker 2>Debbian Moon say I do okay, And once they do that,

1:09:14.560 --> 1:09:19.240
<v Speaker 2>the band kicks off, and with one undercover guest later

1:09:19.360 --> 1:09:27.000
<v Speaker 2>describing their performance as quote absolutely horrible. Okay, It's like

1:09:27.680 --> 1:09:29.400
<v Speaker 2>you can just feel the lack of rhythm.

1:09:29.439 --> 1:09:29.719
<v Speaker 1>Foka.

1:09:30.680 --> 1:09:33.960
<v Speaker 2>They can only do PoCA. So the booze is flowing.

1:09:34.160 --> 1:09:37.080
<v Speaker 2>Everyone's having a good time. Now the food is served,

1:09:37.439 --> 1:09:40.840
<v Speaker 2>and while everyone eats, undercover officers pretending to be friends

1:09:40.880 --> 1:09:43.320
<v Speaker 2>and family of the bride and groom start to stand

1:09:43.439 --> 1:09:47.040
<v Speaker 2>up and give fake speeches and toasts to the happy couple.

1:09:47.680 --> 1:09:50.599
<v Speaker 2>The wedding party even poses for photos. They did they

1:09:50.640 --> 1:09:53.880
<v Speaker 2>do the whole thing now, yeah, they're already there, like,

1:09:54.080 --> 1:09:56.680
<v Speaker 2>just don't just do it, just get it over with.

1:09:57.280 --> 1:10:00.519
<v Speaker 2>But no, they're in the school play and slash right

1:10:00.760 --> 1:10:03.400
<v Speaker 2>their first time improvising, and they're having fun with it.

1:10:03.520 --> 1:10:04.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:10:04.080 --> 1:10:06.720
<v Speaker 2>So now it's around nine o'clock. The began begins to

1:10:06.760 --> 1:10:09.080
<v Speaker 2>play the song I Fought the Law and the law

1:10:09.160 --> 1:10:12.559
<v Speaker 2>one right, so heavy handed, that's the cue.

1:10:12.720 --> 1:10:14.439
<v Speaker 1>It's so nucky way. Yes.

1:10:15.320 --> 1:10:17.400
<v Speaker 2>A guy jumps on stage like he's about to give

1:10:17.439 --> 1:10:20.360
<v Speaker 2>a toast, but instead he says, let's have some fun,

1:10:20.960 --> 1:10:24.000
<v Speaker 2>and then he asks that all the undercover officers stand

1:10:24.040 --> 1:10:27.439
<v Speaker 2>and make themselves known, and the other guests start getting

1:10:27.479 --> 1:10:28.639
<v Speaker 2>placed under arrest.

1:10:29.240 --> 1:10:29.719
<v Speaker 1>WHOA.

1:10:30.240 --> 1:10:34.240
<v Speaker 2>At first, there's disbelief among the guests. One person starts

1:10:34.280 --> 1:10:38.519
<v Speaker 2>laughing as he's getting handcuffed, with an officer insisting that quote,

1:10:38.560 --> 1:10:41.639
<v Speaker 2>we were not kidding, we have a warrant for your arrest.

1:10:41.840 --> 1:10:45.240
<v Speaker 2>End quote. In all, fifteen people are taken into custody

1:10:45.240 --> 1:10:48.160
<v Speaker 2>that day, and dozens of others that Moon, DeBie and

1:10:48.240 --> 1:10:51.680
<v Speaker 2>Vick have been investigating, will be arrested elsewhere in the

1:10:51.720 --> 1:10:53.439
<v Speaker 2>coming days. So it's all part of the same state.

1:10:53.560 --> 1:10:55.839
<v Speaker 1>Didn't have to do the fucking wedding in the first.

1:10:55.760 --> 1:10:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Wedding, clearly was you guys blowing off some scheme, right.

1:10:59.880 --> 1:11:03.560
<v Speaker 2>You can imagine Once news of this sting hits the papers,

1:11:03.760 --> 1:11:08.200
<v Speaker 2>it's viral. Nineties version of viral stories run with flourish,

1:11:08.439 --> 1:11:12.280
<v Speaker 2>Like there's an Associated Press article with the subhead that reads, quote,

1:11:12.600 --> 1:11:16.320
<v Speaker 2>here came the bride, all decked in white and a snubnose.

1:11:17.920 --> 1:11:20.200
<v Speaker 1>Where's the editor? Can I talk to the editor?

1:11:20.280 --> 1:11:22.080
<v Speaker 2>Please? And a snubnose revolt.

1:11:22.160 --> 1:11:23.479
<v Speaker 1>Now, let we're gonna shorten that up.

1:11:23.760 --> 1:11:28.840
<v Speaker 2>The rhythm's off. There's no internal anything. Okay. So Moon,

1:11:28.880 --> 1:11:32.040
<v Speaker 2>for his part, becomes the subject of a Detroit Free

1:11:32.120 --> 1:11:35.720
<v Speaker 2>Press profile the next year, in nineteen ninety and one,

1:11:35.880 --> 1:11:39.879
<v Speaker 2>when he finally retires, the reporter writes, quote, his spirit

1:11:40.000 --> 1:11:43.200
<v Speaker 2>and his health exhausted by two decades of undercover work,

1:11:43.520 --> 1:11:45.839
<v Speaker 2>A legendary narc heads for the hills.

1:11:45.960 --> 1:11:46.639
<v Speaker 1>No, what's better.

1:11:46.840 --> 1:11:48.320
<v Speaker 2>That's way better. End quote.

1:11:48.439 --> 1:11:50.120
<v Speaker 1>It is a different crime. It could be here comes

1:11:50.120 --> 1:11:52.519
<v Speaker 1>the bribe, but it's not. It's not that.

1:11:52.680 --> 1:11:56.720
<v Speaker 2>Though it's here comes the raffle. That's right, what's upon anybody?

1:11:57.160 --> 1:12:00.040
<v Speaker 2>No big deal. It's like it your cousin's wedding and

1:12:00.080 --> 1:12:05.000
<v Speaker 2>they raffled off the weed. You remember, the fucking weirdest Okay, okay.

1:12:05.320 --> 1:12:07.840
<v Speaker 2>Part of this to me feels a lot like when

1:12:07.880 --> 1:12:10.759
<v Speaker 2>I was in college and I was a theater major.

1:12:11.200 --> 1:12:13.320
<v Speaker 2>So being a theater major, it was all about like

1:12:13.400 --> 1:12:15.439
<v Speaker 2>hanging out in the theater department and like, do you

1:12:15.479 --> 1:12:17.479
<v Speaker 2>need me to do anything? And what's up here?

1:12:17.560 --> 1:12:18.759
<v Speaker 1>And creative?

1:12:19.000 --> 1:12:21.559
<v Speaker 2>Yes, you just wanted to be You wanted to be

1:12:21.640 --> 1:12:24.320
<v Speaker 2>identified as amongst these people. That's what I wanted. When

1:12:24.360 --> 1:12:27.920
<v Speaker 2>you're new an improv that like UCB right, yeah, and

1:12:28.000 --> 1:12:29.400
<v Speaker 2>you're like, I guess I got to sit in a

1:12:29.439 --> 1:12:33.760
<v Speaker 2>cafe and write out my suggestions or whatever, nurse. But

1:12:34.479 --> 1:12:36.599
<v Speaker 2>it seems to me that the energy with which they

1:12:36.640 --> 1:12:39.320
<v Speaker 2>went into that it was because they liked hanging out

1:12:39.320 --> 1:12:41.439
<v Speaker 2>and doing it. They liked working on it. I think

1:12:41.479 --> 1:12:43.400
<v Speaker 2>that is going to prove out to be true later.

1:12:43.600 --> 1:12:46.280
<v Speaker 2>But please hold while I read you this part instead.

1:12:47.200 --> 1:12:50.559
<v Speaker 2>And I told you this in twenty fifteen, Jeff Mash's

1:12:50.680 --> 1:12:54.720
<v Speaker 2>article from the Atlantic gets optioned for film rights.

1:12:55.680 --> 1:12:58.040
<v Speaker 1>Going to the Chapelong. You're going to get arrested there

1:12:58.080 --> 1:12:58.320
<v Speaker 1>it is.

1:12:59.080 --> 1:13:02.000
<v Speaker 2>I want to stop thinking about it. Just keep on pitching.

1:13:02.000 --> 1:13:05.040
<v Speaker 2>When they come to you, you say them, it's been

1:13:05.280 --> 1:13:08.080
<v Speaker 2>stuck in turnaround. But that idea, Like the second the

1:13:08.280 --> 1:13:09.920
<v Speaker 2>article came out, they're like, we got to make a

1:13:09.920 --> 1:13:14.519
<v Speaker 2>movie this Vince Vaughn. Whether this sting was successful by

1:13:14.560 --> 1:13:18.040
<v Speaker 2>any measure, though, is tough to save because seen people. Yeah, yeah,

1:13:18.080 --> 1:13:20.479
<v Speaker 2>fifteen people who were basically pot smokers.

1:13:20.520 --> 1:13:22.840
<v Speaker 1>There was not nice ones, it seems, because they came

1:13:22.920 --> 1:13:23.680
<v Speaker 1>to a wedding.

1:13:23.560 --> 1:13:26.479
<v Speaker 2>I know, the nice carrying ones that were like friendships matter.

1:13:27.360 --> 1:13:30.880
<v Speaker 2>At the time, Flint doesn't have digitized court records. They

1:13:30.880 --> 1:13:32.040
<v Speaker 2>are on the paper system.

1:13:32.040 --> 1:13:32.280
<v Speaker 1>Still.

1:13:32.320 --> 1:13:36.439
<v Speaker 2>It's nineteen ninety. The week that many of the cases

1:13:36.439 --> 1:13:38.840
<v Speaker 2>from the arrests from this sting go to court, a

1:13:38.960 --> 1:13:43.800
<v Speaker 2>tornado hits the area and the important documents are scattered

1:13:43.800 --> 1:13:46.200
<v Speaker 2>to the wind. That's God, that's right.

1:13:46.680 --> 1:13:50.200
<v Speaker 1>Fuck Nancy Reagan. Yeah, fuck you, fuck you, thuck you you're cool.

1:13:50.439 --> 1:13:53.840
<v Speaker 2>Same god that got Moon out of his initial thing

1:13:54.040 --> 1:13:57.000
<v Speaker 2>right and got his thing made to a misdemeanor, That

1:13:57.120 --> 1:13:59.479
<v Speaker 2>same God was here just like enough of this. You

1:13:59.520 --> 1:14:02.280
<v Speaker 2>had your Yeah, you should have made a real kick.

1:14:02.720 --> 1:14:06.160
<v Speaker 2>Decades later, Jeff Mash attempts to sess out the number

1:14:06.200 --> 1:14:09.320
<v Speaker 2>of convictions and details on what happened to those involved.

1:14:09.680 --> 1:14:13.360
<v Speaker 2>But it's so murky because they don't have that actual paperwork.

1:14:13.479 --> 1:14:15.920
<v Speaker 1>They should throw at funeral and have everyone who showed

1:14:15.960 --> 1:14:16.280
<v Speaker 1>up at that.

1:14:16.720 --> 1:14:20.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean, well, what's clear from the day reporting is

1:14:20.240 --> 1:14:23.040
<v Speaker 2>that around thirty people are handed drug charges in connection

1:14:23.160 --> 1:14:26.559
<v Speaker 2>with this investigation and this sting. It seems like very

1:14:26.560 --> 1:14:31.639
<v Speaker 2>few suspects were given long or harsh sentences. Most probably

1:14:31.720 --> 1:14:34.640
<v Speaker 2>resolved them through plea deals and basically got to go

1:14:34.720 --> 1:14:37.960
<v Speaker 2>back to their regular lives. Vick will later say that

1:14:38.280 --> 1:14:43.200
<v Speaker 2>some of the people they arrested took it all in stride, claiming, quote,

1:14:43.360 --> 1:14:45.759
<v Speaker 2>there were no bad feelings. Everyone thought it was funny.

1:14:45.800 --> 1:14:46.280
<v Speaker 1>You got me.

1:14:46.600 --> 1:14:49.960
<v Speaker 2>And it's such a cop attitude of like they loved it.

1:14:50.280 --> 1:14:53.000
<v Speaker 2>Here's a guy getting arrested, and you can tell. You

1:14:53.000 --> 1:14:55.320
<v Speaker 2>can look at his face and see, Okay, it doesn't

1:14:55.360 --> 1:14:56.519
<v Speaker 2>seem like he thinks it's.

1:14:56.360 --> 1:14:58.200
<v Speaker 1>All that wall. He looks shell shocked.

1:14:58.600 --> 1:14:59.519
<v Speaker 2>That's de Wian Moon.

1:15:00.040 --> 1:15:01.800
<v Speaker 1>Why because he wore a fucking acid What are those

1:15:01.840 --> 1:15:02.320
<v Speaker 1>genes called?

1:15:02.439 --> 1:15:02.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

1:15:02.640 --> 1:15:05.599
<v Speaker 2>Acid washed a wedding acid wash jeans and a Freddy

1:15:05.640 --> 1:15:06.320
<v Speaker 2>Kruger sweater.

1:15:06.439 --> 1:15:08.080
<v Speaker 1>Well, and look at her, the bride with the gun

1:15:08.120 --> 1:15:08.759
<v Speaker 1>in her hand.

1:15:09.080 --> 1:15:11.120
<v Speaker 2>That is a She pulled that right out of her

1:15:11.320 --> 1:15:14.880
<v Speaker 2>thigh garter yam and said, how dare you smoke?

1:15:14.960 --> 1:15:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Pot? And he's got a joint in his mouth.

1:15:17.040 --> 1:15:17.519
<v Speaker 2>He's good.

1:15:17.720 --> 1:15:18.800
<v Speaker 1>Moon's got to join in this mail.

1:15:18.880 --> 1:15:22.439
<v Speaker 2>Moon's already lit up. That guy totally looks like he's like, Oh,

1:15:22.520 --> 1:15:23.960
<v Speaker 2>that's what I get for it trying to be nice

1:15:24.000 --> 1:15:26.120
<v Speaker 2>of people. I basically wrote here, I'd love to hear

1:15:26.160 --> 1:15:28.599
<v Speaker 2>a twenty twenty six interview with the arrestees to see

1:15:28.640 --> 1:15:31.599
<v Speaker 2>how true that statement is. That's the podcast we need

1:15:31.640 --> 1:15:31.880
<v Speaker 2>to hear.

1:15:31.960 --> 1:15:35.120
<v Speaker 1>If anyone listening's dad or mom was in that sting,

1:15:35.479 --> 1:15:38.320
<v Speaker 1>please email us immediately. Put it in the subject line

1:15:38.439 --> 1:15:40.439
<v Speaker 1>my favorite murder at Gmail. Read it on a hometown.

1:15:40.600 --> 1:15:43.320
<v Speaker 2>It's going to get like a five alarm fire, straight

1:15:43.400 --> 1:15:45.840
<v Speaker 2>to the microphone if we If you want to tell

1:15:45.880 --> 1:15:49.200
<v Speaker 2>us your side of the story. Atlantic writer Jeff Mash notes,

1:15:49.240 --> 1:15:52.760
<v Speaker 2>though that more importantly quote, for all the drama and

1:15:52.800 --> 1:15:56.839
<v Speaker 2>creativity involved, the operation ultimately didn't do much to improve

1:15:56.920 --> 1:15:59.839
<v Speaker 2>the grim outlook of the city and its surrounding areas

1:16:00.360 --> 1:16:03.800
<v Speaker 2>end quote. So obviously, the idea that we're going to

1:16:03.840 --> 1:16:05.920
<v Speaker 2>clean up the streets, this all just kind of turned

1:16:05.920 --> 1:16:08.559
<v Speaker 2>it into fun times and cookiness, and it's like, and

1:16:08.600 --> 1:16:10.439
<v Speaker 2>you just arrested a bunch of people that were able

1:16:10.479 --> 1:16:13.720
<v Speaker 2>to plee out. Afterwards, In the years that follow and

1:16:13.720 --> 1:16:16.120
<v Speaker 2>in spite of the War on drugs policing culture looming

1:16:16.240 --> 1:16:20.120
<v Speaker 2>larger and larger, the scourge of drugs continues as the

1:16:20.160 --> 1:16:22.840
<v Speaker 2>broader region of this part of Michigan is left to

1:16:22.880 --> 1:16:27.479
<v Speaker 2>grapple with severe economic hardship. So basically all of this

1:16:27.560 --> 1:16:30.360
<v Speaker 2>is for naught. For his part in the sting, Moon

1:16:30.400 --> 1:16:33.400
<v Speaker 2>gets a five thousand dollars bonus, which would be worth

1:16:33.439 --> 1:16:34.519
<v Speaker 2>about how much.

1:16:34.360 --> 1:16:36.160
<v Speaker 1>In today's money, eight hundred and thirty.

1:16:36.680 --> 1:16:45.800
<v Speaker 2>It's a five thousand dollars bonus.

1:16:42.439 --> 1:16:45.599
<v Speaker 1>Not one hundred eight three hundred.

1:16:46.120 --> 1:16:53.799
<v Speaker 2>Closer, it's twelve thousand, eight hundred with an hour. Anyway,

1:16:53.880 --> 1:16:58.759
<v Speaker 2>this bonus enables Moon to retire, get his get his family.

1:16:58.800 --> 1:17:02.360
<v Speaker 2>You're right, yeah, retire, get his family together, and move

1:17:02.400 --> 1:17:05.439
<v Speaker 2>back to North Carolina like he planned. In two thousand

1:17:05.479 --> 1:17:08.920
<v Speaker 2>and six, Lacey Moon Brown passes away at just sixty

1:17:08.920 --> 1:17:12.960
<v Speaker 2>three years old, with his obituary reading quote the moon

1:17:13.040 --> 1:17:18.679
<v Speaker 2>shines no more in North Carolina. That's dramatic. His cause

1:17:18.720 --> 1:17:20.799
<v Speaker 2>of death is unclear, but he was a heavy smoker,

1:17:20.960 --> 1:17:24.840
<v Speaker 2>and who knows. There is one sweet, weird side note

1:17:24.880 --> 1:17:27.479
<v Speaker 2>that I was talking about before, which is that during

1:17:27.560 --> 1:17:32.240
<v Speaker 2>the fake wedding, when Sergeant Vick wasah Solition watches Officer

1:17:32.320 --> 1:17:35.439
<v Speaker 2>Debbie Williams coming diant the Ale in her dress, in

1:17:35.479 --> 1:17:39.439
<v Speaker 2>her Salvation Army dress. He realizes that night he has

1:17:39.520 --> 1:17:42.920
<v Speaker 2>feelings for her, and he says quote, I couldn't let

1:17:43.000 --> 1:17:47.320
<v Speaker 2>her go. They end up falling in love and eventually marrying,

1:17:47.680 --> 1:17:50.240
<v Speaker 2>and as best as Maren can tell from her research,

1:17:50.760 --> 1:17:54.080
<v Speaker 2>they're still together to this day. So my thing is,

1:17:54.200 --> 1:17:56.519
<v Speaker 2>I think that this idea where it was like it

1:17:56.560 --> 1:17:59.800
<v Speaker 2>was for Moon to get one last kind of like

1:18:00.200 --> 1:18:02.920
<v Speaker 2>ray for you in the papers and then all the

1:18:03.080 --> 1:18:05.840
<v Speaker 2>other stuff was like when you like hanging out with people,

1:18:05.880 --> 1:18:08.120
<v Speaker 2>so you're like, yeah, we better get together and figure

1:18:08.120 --> 1:18:11.240
<v Speaker 2>out that raffle tomorrow. Oh right, Like it has that

1:18:11.280 --> 1:18:11.920
<v Speaker 2>feeling I.

1:18:11.840 --> 1:18:13.680
<v Speaker 1>Wanted it to go on as long as possible kind

1:18:13.720 --> 1:18:14.080
<v Speaker 1>of a thing.

1:18:14.200 --> 1:18:17.040
<v Speaker 2>But they have a fucking cop band plane, Like you

1:18:17.120 --> 1:18:19.560
<v Speaker 2>can't just have a DJ like normal weddings.

1:18:19.720 --> 1:18:20.599
<v Speaker 1>That's so romanz.

1:18:20.760 --> 1:18:24.160
<v Speaker 2>They had cops fucking I fought the law rehearsal.

1:18:25.560 --> 1:18:27.840
<v Speaker 1>When did you know you were in love with mom?

1:18:28.040 --> 1:18:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, well, when she pulled out that little pistol from

1:18:31.040 --> 1:18:35.760
<v Speaker 2>her thigh garter and fucking up against the wall. And

1:18:35.800 --> 1:18:37.679
<v Speaker 2>that's the story of the nineteen ninety wedding sting.

1:18:37.960 --> 1:18:38.639
<v Speaker 1>That was fun.

1:18:38.840 --> 1:18:41.599
<v Speaker 2>Hey, we're not opposed to having fun on this podcast.

1:18:41.640 --> 1:18:43.360
<v Speaker 2>If you have any ideas of how we could have

1:18:43.400 --> 1:18:46.639
<v Speaker 2>more fun, please write it in my favorite murder at

1:18:46.680 --> 1:18:47.679
<v Speaker 2>gmail dot com.

1:18:47.640 --> 1:18:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Or just comment on the Instagram. That's the only way

1:18:49.880 --> 1:18:52.400
<v Speaker 1>I'll ever see like comments is if it's on Instagram

1:18:52.439 --> 1:18:53.200
<v Speaker 1>and the fan cult.

1:18:53.400 --> 1:18:56.160
<v Speaker 2>Yes, we can't go looking for it anymore. People. We've

1:18:56.160 --> 1:18:57.040
<v Speaker 2>been through so much.

1:18:57.080 --> 1:18:58.920
<v Speaker 1>My brain is like, you know, I have like my

1:18:59.000 --> 1:19:01.080
<v Speaker 1>eyeballs like a cart and are filling up.

1:19:01.000 --> 1:19:03.479
<v Speaker 2>With I just have those ones from like twenty seventeen

1:19:03.520 --> 1:19:05.400
<v Speaker 2>that I looked at one time and it's burned into

1:19:05.400 --> 1:19:08.519
<v Speaker 2>my memory forever. The comments yeah never never, why is

1:19:08.520 --> 1:19:12.679
<v Speaker 2>it them? We don't know, we don't know. Sorry about

1:19:12.680 --> 1:19:14.400
<v Speaker 2>your freezing. You like it?

1:19:14.760 --> 1:19:16.000
<v Speaker 1>Go to get another free thing?

1:19:16.080 --> 1:19:17.519
<v Speaker 2>You You're a free thing.

1:19:17.800 --> 1:19:18.880
<v Speaker 1>Do you know how many free things.

1:19:18.920 --> 1:19:21.560
<v Speaker 2>There are free to like old Pine Elsewhere there's a

1:19:21.640 --> 1:19:23.720
<v Speaker 2>post to be political. If you don't fucking know that,

1:19:25.080 --> 1:19:26.639
<v Speaker 2>stay sexy, I don't get murdered.

1:19:27.160 --> 1:19:29.799
<v Speaker 1>Goodbye, Elvis, Do you want a cookie?

1:19:37.640 --> 1:19:39.439
<v Speaker 2>This has been an exactly right production.

1:19:39.600 --> 1:19:41.760
<v Speaker 1>Our managing producer is Molly Smith.

1:19:41.560 --> 1:19:43.600
<v Speaker 2>Our consulting producer is Kate Shellenbach.

1:19:43.680 --> 1:19:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Our creative lead is Alison Agosti.

1:19:45.600 --> 1:19:48.439
<v Speaker 2>Our associate producer is Tessa Hughes, and our editor is

1:19:48.520 --> 1:19:49.760
<v Speaker 2>Aristotle Acevedo.

1:19:49.960 --> 1:19:52.200
<v Speaker 1>This episode was mixed by Leona Squalacci.

1:19:52.240 --> 1:19:54.840
<v Speaker 2>Our researchers are Marion McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

1:19:55.000 --> 1:19:57.679
<v Speaker 1>Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot

1:19:57.720 --> 1:20:00.759
<v Speaker 1>com and follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.

1:20:00.800 --> 1:20:03.439
<v Speaker 2>Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

1:20:03.479 --> 1:20:06.479
<v Speaker 2>Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, or watch new

1:20:06.520 --> 1:20:09.719
<v Speaker 2>episodes every week on Netflix. Search for My Favorite Murder,

1:20:09.760 --> 1:20:11.960
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1:20:12.000 --> 1:20:12.479
<v Speaker 2>up button.

1:20:14.360 --> 1:20:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Goodbye