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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome my favorite murder.

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Speaker 2: That's Georgia Hardstar.

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Speaker 1: That's Karen kil Gariff.

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Speaker 2: And this is what we like to call a ten

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Speaker 2: year plan.

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Speaker 1: It's almost been eleven years now, we're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: stop saying ten I know, it's pretty great, it's pretty crazy.

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Speaker 2: I feel like the luckiest person in the world. Same,

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Speaker 2: but it is very surreal to be sitting in my

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Speaker 2: house trying to figure out what to watch on TV

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Speaker 2: in this podcast comes up on Netflix. It's so strange. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and so we're you know, hopefully the people at home understand.

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Speaker 2: We're just pretending like this is normal and that we

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Speaker 2: do it all the time.

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Speaker 1: Couldn't I tell you anything? Speaking of Netflix and this

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Speaker 1: cute off that I'm worrying, did you know that when

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Speaker 1: we were on break, I had Molly and Tess make

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Speaker 1: a chart of all the outfits I've worn so I

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Speaker 1: don't repeat an outfit.

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Speaker 2: I just want to see it.

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Speaker 1: I can't repeat an outfit. It's an old trauma wound

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Speaker 1: of getting made fun of for wearing hand me downs.

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Speaker 1: These polls, it's sound an amazing So thank you Molly

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Speaker 1: and Tests for indulging my trauma and vanity I think

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Speaker 1: those two things are.

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Speaker 2: Looks like you repeated that Steve Martin shirt a couple times.

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Speaker 2: Those are minisodes, and so it repeats because it's the

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Speaker 2: same day. Yeah, daring you. Why don't you get your

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Speaker 2: ass up out of this chair and change outfits on

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Speaker 2: the day.

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Speaker 1: I would do that. It's like you had been okay,

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Speaker 1: like into it.

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Speaker 2: If we get you like a curtain that spins around you,

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Speaker 2: and when you spin back out you have a different outfit.

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Speaker 1: It's such a relief. Like the first time and I

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Speaker 1: was like, do you want to change outfits? And you're

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Speaker 1: like fuck no, I'm like, really great, and now I

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Speaker 1: need to like dazzle this and makes kind of amazing.

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Speaker 2: Literally, when I was leaving my house today, I was like,

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Speaker 2: I have to put on a shirt. I was like,

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Speaker 2: I have to cover my arm. I was saying all

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Speaker 2: these things to myself, and I was like, I don't

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Speaker 2: have to do shit, don't people don't Really, it's not

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Speaker 2: like that anymore.

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Speaker 1: Well, Netflix has changed it for me a little bit.

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Speaker 1: It's like up the game a little.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's the exposure aspect, right, we already had what

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Speaker 2: we weren't really thinking about, right, But here's my thing.

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Speaker 2: And if you're here for the glamour, don't look on

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Speaker 2: this side of the table.

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Speaker 1: I had a side fucking jam Brady outfit.

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Speaker 2: Sure, Jan, But my thing was like, I'm trying to

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Speaker 2: provide the Kim deal Patricia high Smith angle of we're

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Speaker 2: busy and we're not doing that thing. I like that,

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Speaker 2: and we represent those girls. I have those days you

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Speaker 2: can see in the binder. I've lived that binder.

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Speaker 1: I know she has those hangovers and that PMS despite

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Speaker 1: not having her fucking uterus, she still has.

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Speaker 2: Those All those hormones are in there.

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Speaker 1: And she puts on Steve Martin T shirt vintage, but

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Speaker 1: she puts it on.

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Speaker 2: She puts it on.

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Speaker 1: You were gonna tell me a story?

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Speaker 2: Last weekend we went to Dollywood? Shut up? Yep, Me

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Speaker 2: and Laura and Nora and my cousin Stevie and Kim

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Speaker 2: and their daughters. Because Anna is the biggest fan of

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Speaker 2: Dolly and she basically has been talking about would you

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Speaker 2: go with me if I went to Dollywood? And we're

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Speaker 2: all like, hell, yes, we'll go, and we finally did it.

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Speaker 1: Is it like a not Sperry Farm or is it

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Speaker 1: more like a Disneyland?

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Speaker 2: I would say it's like right in between the two. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so I was it's so funny you asked that because

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Speaker 2: I was anticipating nots Berry Farm and maybe down.

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Speaker 1: Just so everyone knows, not Sperry Farm is like the

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Speaker 1: southern California like mom and pop amusement park. So think

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Speaker 1: of it as like your local amusement park, which is

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Speaker 1: like charming and cute but a little jankie.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's like because it's farm based.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's like like a state fair exactly.

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Speaker 2: They're doing kind of the hometowny vibe where it's like

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Speaker 2: this used to be a berry farm, right, Like he's

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Speaker 2: maybe a little politically incorrect maybe, yeah, but no, Dollywood

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Speaker 2: is classy, it's home amazing, the food everybody get you

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Speaker 2: to oh my god. Well every morning we had the

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Speaker 2: breakfast buffet with some of the loveliest weight staff, the

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Speaker 2: people that work there. They're going to say loveliest waffles

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Speaker 2: and it was so beautiful biscuits, I mean they were there,

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Speaker 2: everything was cooked perfectly. Yeah, Nora had all kinds of

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Speaker 2: gluten free choices amazing, and the staff were like of

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Speaker 2: course because my cousin Stevie was a waiter and ran

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Speaker 2: restaurants and stuff, so he's immediately sassing with the waitresses

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Speaker 2: who are immediately sassing back. And it was just the

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Speaker 2: most wholesome, like what we kept talking about walking around

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Speaker 2: in the park, big roller coasters, fun roller coasters. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Dolly retrospective where we walked through and spoiler alert if

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Speaker 2: you're going to go and you don't want to ruin

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Speaker 2: for you, But through the retrospective, you come around a

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Speaker 2: corner and I don't know if you've ever heard Dolly

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Speaker 2: Parton's song Coat of Many Colors, which is about her

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Speaker 2: mom making her the most beautiful coat in the world

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Speaker 2: and she goes to school and they're like, yeah, poor,

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Speaker 2: you come around a corner. The fucking Coat of Many

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Speaker 2: Colors is behind glass. So if you grew up in

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Speaker 2: like in the seventies, yeah, Dolly Parton was everywhere all

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Speaker 2: the time. Is that country music trend that basically happened

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Speaker 2: on AM radio And she was everywhere, her and Kenny

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Speaker 2: Rogers and everybody. But the Cot of Many Colors was

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Speaker 2: like so down deep that it wasn't even like a thing.

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Speaker 2: I didn't even think about it. But we come around

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Speaker 2: this corner, my sister and I are just like like

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Speaker 2: immediately start crying wow, because my sister turns and goes,

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Speaker 2: it's the coat of it's actually the little girl's coat.

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Speaker 2: It's the little girl's coat.

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Speaker 1: And does she still have that?

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Speaker 2: That's beautiful. That's the lobby of the resort. We stayed

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Speaker 2: at Heart Song the Smoky Mountains, which my sister I

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Speaker 2: met them. They were there longer than me. My sister said,

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Speaker 2: this Smoky Mountains are some of the most beautiful nature

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Speaker 2: she's ever seen. I want to go when the leaves turn. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's like every single tree.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Can we ask Dolly if we can do a

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Speaker 1: live show at Dollywood? Do they have an amphitheater?

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Speaker 2: Yes they do.

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Speaker 3: We imagine Dolly's nieces do a live show, her relatives

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Speaker 3: do a live music review of her music and other hits.

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Speaker 3: And they were fucking great. It was like a one

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Speaker 3: o'clock show. And I was like every song, I was

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Speaker 3: clapping my ass off because I was like, they're busting

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Speaker 3: their asses.

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Speaker 1: My favorite murderer residency at Dollywood.

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Speaker 2: Get out of town. But we need to go where

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Speaker 2: the coat of Many Colors is. I'd wear that wright,

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Speaker 2: it would go perfectly with what you have on right

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Speaker 2: I do you think I would wear that? But also,

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Speaker 2: isn't it beautiful?

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Speaker 1: Scourgeous? It's the cutest thing.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't matter because my sister doesn't watch this show,

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Speaker 2: but I was like, I think I'm gonna try to

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Speaker 2: sew her a coat of many colors for Christmas.

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Speaker 1: Her do it?

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Speaker 2: Uh huh. We're just like here here you can have

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Speaker 2: your own either that or to have someone paint it

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Speaker 2: and do a little painting of it.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Murderinos, do you paint? Oh my god, like a

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Speaker 1: little little still life of just the coat would be

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Speaker 1: so cute.

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Speaker 2: Coming around a corner and seeing your childhood.

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Speaker 1: And knowing Murderinos like, it's the artist who uses cat hair.

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Speaker 2: It's gonna make the most beautiful because that's how talented

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Speaker 2: our fucking listeners are. They're gonna use something random like

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Speaker 2: only using diet coat cans. Yeah, they're gonna make it

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Speaker 2: the most beautiful because that's their thing and that's what

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Speaker 2: they do, nail clippings. Whenever you can come up with.

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Speaker 2: We would love to see it. We would but highly

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Speaker 2: recommend Dollywood. Every employee was lovely, amazing. The experience was

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Speaker 2: just like we were just like.

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Speaker 1: What a great summer trip. Yeah, I love that and

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Speaker 1: great merch amazing?

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Speaker 2: Would you do this weekend?

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Speaker 1: Oh I'm not drinking so nothing?

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Speaker 2: Oh are you white knuckle in it?

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Speaker 1: Over five weeks dude, the longest I've gone in decade

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Speaker 1: and more.

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Speaker 2: How do you feel good? Of course? Duh? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, turns out what do you do and instead reading?

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Speaker 1: I'm just reading?

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Speaker 2: Are you really? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I went to I madevens going to dinner with me

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Speaker 1: to like, you know, like, this isn't non alcoholic dinner,

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Speaker 1: let's try it. And I was just like the whole time,

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Speaker 1: fucking this isn't fun with aud a martini yet, but

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Speaker 1: it will be right.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's just have it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 2: Have you heard of or read the book Yesteryear.

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Speaker 1: I told you to read that book?

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Speaker 2: God damn it.

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Speaker 1: Well I told you like two weeks I gotta read them,

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Speaker 1: like sorry, it's.

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Speaker 2: Okod Well I didn't. I haven't started, but everybody on

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Speaker 2: the trip had a copy. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's so fucking good.

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Speaker 2: I will always do that to you because you always

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Speaker 2: tell me to read things and I just don't.

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Speaker 1: The audiobook is really good, okay, yeah, oh good check

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Speaker 1: it out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm very excited about it.

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Speaker 1: Love it. It's the book of the summer.

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Speaker 2: Everybody's talking about trad wive regret, the whole.

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Speaker 1: Thing of like, why are there no grown dradwives because

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Speaker 1: women of a certain age can't fucking handle that shit

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Speaker 1: no more.

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Speaker 2: I mean the pure labor of being a wife and

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Speaker 2: mother mental labor, physical labor, emotional labor, and then basically

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Speaker 2: volunteering to do it alone. Yeah, wow, tough.

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Speaker 1: No, oh, do you have a true crime update?

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Speaker 2: There is a true crime update, but it's kind of

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Speaker 2: a weird one, okay, And it's around the murders of

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Speaker 2: this Fort University of Idaho students. Yeah, Madison Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalvez,

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Speaker 2: Ethan Schapin, and Xanner Kernodle. Brian Coberger, who is convicted

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Speaker 2: of all four murderers last year, is now wants to

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Speaker 2: rescind his guilty please and get a new trial. I

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Speaker 2: didn't hear that he claims he's innocent and that he

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Speaker 2: was misled into confessing. They don't know if that's actually

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Speaker 2: going to take place, but that's something he's petitioning for

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Speaker 2: right now.

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Speaker 1: I was so happy that that fucking monster was just

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Speaker 1: going to go away and we didn't have to look

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Speaker 1: at him anymore? Right, But here we go. Yeah that sucks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see what actually happens because people have the

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Speaker 2: right to put that out there if they want to,

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Speaker 2: and then they'll see who picks it up and what

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Speaker 2: it actually means totally.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well should we get into it?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Should we talk about our network?

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Speaker 1: Yes? So we have a network. It's called exactly right media.

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Speaker 1: Go listen to all our podcasts on it. There's so

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Speaker 1: many good ones.

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Speaker 2: They're right out there for you.

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Speaker 1: Please. Here's some highlights this.

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Speaker 2: Week over on Ghosted. What's very exciting is the host

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Speaker 2: ros Hernandez has a new audio book out called Peeing

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Speaker 2: in an Empty Bottle. It's about her life on the

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Speaker 2: road as a stand up comic. So you can go

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Speaker 2: listen to an excerpt of that on her feed over

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Speaker 2: on the Ghosted feed. If you like it, you can

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Speaker 2: get the full audiobook available wherever you by your audio books.

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Speaker 1: I love it. Our newest limited series, Royal Swindle, Episode four,

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Speaker 1: Good Cop, Bad Cop, is out now. Detective Jim Frost

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Speaker 1: closes in on Evelyn and Layla as more of their

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Speaker 1: past comes to light. But just when it looks like

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Speaker 1: they're cornered, their loyal butler, Lars steps in.

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Speaker 2: They're loyal butler, Lars. This is the level of insanity

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Speaker 2: this podcast gets too. And we're only on episode four.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing, We're.

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Speaker 2: Only halfway through, Lars. It's the craziest and roll Swindle's

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Speaker 2: doing amazing on the charts. Thank you guys so much

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Speaker 2: for supporting and downloading and listening and all of that,

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Speaker 2: because it's going like gangbusters. Yeah. Also, if you've ever

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Speaker 2: dreamed of solving crimes at sea, which we know you have,

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Speaker 2: you're a murdering no Buried Bones and Disgraceland are heading

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Speaker 2: aboard Virgin Voyage's True Crime Voyage this coming March. Bookings

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Speaker 2: are open now at virgin voyages dot com. How badly

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Speaker 2: do you want to just go on a cruise and

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Speaker 2: have a drink with Jake Brennan, fucking Paul Holes and

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Speaker 2: Kate and just just chop it up about facts and evidence.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's so that sounds like my dream? Yeah, it really?

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Speaker 2: Do you want to go?

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Speaker 1: I get your ticket? I want to go. And then

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Speaker 1: in merch corner, we still have a handful of proclensity

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Speaker 1: items left. You have to check them out. Go to

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Speaker 1: exactly rightstore dot com before they disappear for good.

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Speaker 2: Haven't you ever wanted to wear merch of your favorite

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Speaker 2: psychiatric drug? Yeah, well now you can with proclensity, which

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Speaker 2: is a word Georgia made up. It seems like something

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Speaker 2: you'd run in a five k like and then at

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Speaker 2: the end of the five k like they'd hand out merchlesity. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and like pro cleansity merch Yep, that's just what it

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Speaker 2: makes me to go. We're also selling those silver blankets

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Speaker 2: that you can wrap around your shoulders. Also, tomorrow, we've

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Speaker 2: got a little treat for you because, in partnership with

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Speaker 2: cars dot com, we're going to be releasing a bonus

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Speaker 2: episode for you where we give listeners advice that was chaotic.

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Speaker 2: This is absolutely insane.

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Speaker 1: I'm so fun And speaking of that, we cannot stress

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Speaker 1: enough that we're in no way equipped or certified to

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Speaker 1: be giving anyone advice, So please take that advice at

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Speaker 1: your own risk. Watch the full video of us leading

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Speaker 1: the public astray exclusively on the fan Cult at fancult

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Speaker 1: dot supercast dot com. Yeah, the end and the end,

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Speaker 1: and I'm first, that's right. This one has a mystery

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Speaker 1: element to it, which I know you hate cold case.

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Speaker 2: I hate cold case.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't call it that, although I guess

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Speaker 1: technically it's not.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay.

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Speaker 1: So it's April nineteen sixty four, right when this dress

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Speaker 1: was made, and we're at Michael Rhys's Hospital on the

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Speaker 1: near south side of Chicago. So we're at this maternity

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Speaker 1: ward nineteen sixty four April. Dora Franzac is happily feeding

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Speaker 1: her two day old baby, a boy, her first child,

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Speaker 1: named Paul. Her husband Chester has to return to work

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Speaker 1: at the factory where he's a machinist, but he's planning

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Speaker 1: to come back to the hospital that evening. They're so

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Speaker 1: thrilled at their first baby, and that day at work,

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Speaker 1: he's proudly handing out cigars to all his colleagues. Is

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Speaker 1: feeding the baby. A nurse walks into the room. She

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Speaker 1: doesn't say anything, and Dora and her roommate both think

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Speaker 1: it's a little odd, but all she does is lit

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Speaker 1: the blue blanket away from baby Paul's face and look

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Speaker 1: at him for a long moment, and then she walks out.

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Speaker 1: But a half hour later she's back, and she tells

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Speaker 1: Dora that the pediatrician would like to examine the baby

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Speaker 1: and Dora hands over her brand new baby Paul, and

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Speaker 1: it's the last time she'll ever see her newborn. This

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Speaker 1: is the story of the Paul Franzac triple disappearance. Oh

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Speaker 1: do you know this one?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I've heard stories of the babies that have

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Speaker 2: been taken or you know, yeah whatever, but now I

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Speaker 2: don't know what it is.

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Speaker 1: Get ready. The main source for this book is the

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Speaker 1: book The Foundling by Paul Franzac, he.

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Speaker 2: Wrote about himself.

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Speaker 1: But we'll get into it, okay. So a student nurse

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Speaker 1: sees this woman dressed as a nurse, walking out with

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Speaker 1: this brand new baby into the stairwell. She doesn't recognize

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Speaker 1: the nurse, and she knows that this is not usual protocol.

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Speaker 1: Probably because she's a student and doesn't feel empowered to

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Speaker 1: run up to a nurse who seems more senior than her.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't say anything to the nurse. Instead, she alerts

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Speaker 1: her supervisor. They rushed to the nursery and realize that

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Speaker 1: baby Paul is missing. At that point, no one can

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Speaker 1: locate this mysterious woman and the baby. Even though they

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Speaker 1: like acted immediately, there was no delay, you know. The

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Speaker 1: hospital staff try and successfully for two hours to find

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Speaker 1: Paul and the nurse, and then they call Chester at

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Speaker 1: work and tell him what had happened. He has to

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Speaker 1: break the heartbreaking news to Dora there in her hospital

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Speaker 1: bed while hundreds of police and FBI officers descend upon

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Speaker 1: the neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: H Hey, they should have had to go in and

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Speaker 2: break the news. Yeah, oh yeah, I mean maybe not,

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Speaker 2: though maybe he wanted to, because it's like coming from someone,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Yes, someone personal, and it's

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Speaker 2: not yeah, someone that's going to be weird and cold

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Speaker 2: and clinical about it, right, But god, I know, God.

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Speaker 1: All the figure out is this. The woman had hailed

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Speaker 1: a cat on the street behind the hospital. The driver

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Speaker 1: said he had driven her west away from the Lakefront

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Speaker 1: where the hospital is, to thirty fifth Street and Halstead Avenue,

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Speaker 1: about a ten minute ride. Then she had gotten out,

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Speaker 1: and despite conducting hundreds of interviews and searching hundreds of

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Speaker 1: buildings and homes, investigators never uncover any leads about where

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Speaker 1: the woman took Paul next. And here's a sketch of

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Speaker 1: what she looked like based on the people who saw her.

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Speaker 1: So it's just so vague. Woman wearing a nurse's uniform.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that kind of looks like me, that's my.

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Speaker 1: Haircut, it's not your baby.

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Speaker 2: When I'm like a little stressed out. Wait a second,

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Speaker 2: what wait Karen, Wait, what are we going to do?

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm sorry. I kind of long for

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Speaker 2: the days first of all, when we used to have

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Speaker 2: newspapers and journalism, but that idea where it's kind of like, hey,

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Speaker 2: have you seen this person? Imagine the kind of things

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Speaker 2: that aren't getting out there and getting communicated and circulated.

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Speaker 2: Because although to say and TikTok's going crazy for it,

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Speaker 2: Nancy Grace is back in a big way.

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Speaker 1: Really, yes she is.

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Speaker 2: She's taking up the Nolan Wells case like herself.

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Speaker 1: I didn't see that. Yes, I mean I've seen the

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Speaker 1: case and it's just awful, but I didn't know she

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Speaker 1: was getting into it.

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Speaker 2: She's getting people from like the local you know, officials,

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Speaker 2: and getting them on the show and then just being

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Speaker 2: way confrontational about you know, that doesn't seem right to me.

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Speaker 2: And her fucking eyebrows are as arched as ever. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's a real return to form and that it's crazy.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's great for that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's she's doing something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Nancy, we see you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So at the time when this in nineteen sixty four,

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Speaker 1: it had not yet been hospital policy to take fingerprints

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Speaker 1: and footprints for new babies. So the only tangible information

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Speaker 1: the police have on file is the one photo of

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Speaker 1: Paul that was taken right after he was born. They

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Speaker 1: took a snapshot, and that's it. That photo is released

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Speaker 1: to the press as well as those sketches of the

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Speaker 1: woman who took him. So here's his photo. Is a

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Speaker 1: little baby, I know, just tiny, just two days.

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Speaker 2: Old, I mean tiny, but all that hair.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, good thing they had that photo.

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Speaker 2: Yeah for real.

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Speaker 1: Oh it's so cute. The Franz Acts make a few

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Speaker 1: desperate pleas to the press, begging for their baby back,

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Speaker 1: but heartbreaking ly, in those statements, they ask for him

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Speaker 1: to be well cared for. Dora tells a reporter, quote,

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Speaker 1: take good care of him and see that he gets

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Speaker 1: enough to eat. He's everything we built our hopes on

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Speaker 1: for the future. Just so he is taken care of.

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Speaker 1: That's the main thing. So he's just hoping that whoever

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Speaker 1: kidnapped him was doing so to, you know, just to

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Speaker 1: have a baby. Yeah. And so here's a photo of

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Speaker 1: the two of them in the newspaper with the plea

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Speaker 1: she's in a wheelchair. She just looks devastated. I mean,

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Speaker 1: look at their faces.

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Speaker 2: It's just such a bizarre crime and such a bizarre situation.

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Speaker 1: And not something you'd expect in a hospital. You think

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Speaker 1: you're totally safe there. Yeah. So similarly, Paul's doctors give

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Speaker 1: detailed instructions to the press about how he should be

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Speaker 1: cared for and how his formula should be prepared because

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Speaker 1: they suspect he might have a cow's milk allergy. So

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Speaker 1: they're just hoping that it's someone who wants to take

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Speaker 1: care of him, and over the next two years, the

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Speaker 1: case goes completely cold. Then in June of nineteen sixty six,

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Speaker 1: two years and two months after Paul's birth and disappearance,

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Speaker 1: the Franzacs get the call they've been praying for every

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Speaker 1: single day.

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Speaker 2: A two year old boy has been found in New Jersey,

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00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:27,199
Speaker 2: and authorities believe he might be Paul. So rewind the

403
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,919
Speaker 2: boy had been left a year earlier, in nineteen sixty

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Speaker 2: five and a brand new stroller outside a department store

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Speaker 2: in Newark. He had been dressed in a clean, bright

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Speaker 2: blue suit, and the stroller, and the little boy had

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Speaker 2: sat unattended in front of the store for two hours

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Speaker 2: until people realize there's.

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Speaker 1: No parents with him. Then at five pm, an anonymous

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Speaker 1: caller phones the Newark Police and tells him about the child.

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Speaker 1: The child is designated a foundling, a term for an

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Speaker 1: a pan of baby whose origins are unknown, which is like,

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Speaker 1: gives you chills. The word the foundling. It sounds like

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Speaker 1: a horror movie. Yeah, he does that one movie with

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Speaker 1: Angelina Jolie. That's so good.

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Speaker 2: The baby it turns around and I just sangs, it

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Speaker 2: has full set of teeth, little a mustache.

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Speaker 1: I think the movie you're thinking of as a changeling.

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Speaker 2: I did love that movie.

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Speaker 1: I meant the changeling. Thank you, Molly, Yes, yes, I

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Speaker 1: love that movie was so good and it was based

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Speaker 1: on the true story that I think you covered.

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Speaker 2: I covered it and it's so upsetting and it is

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Speaker 2: That movie is the worst nightmare of any parent going

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Speaker 2: through this, where it's like, oh, some absolute lunatic is

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Speaker 2: keeping children in chicken coop out in the country.

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Speaker 1: She's put it an insane asylum.

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Speaker 2: Yes, because nobody wants to hear a lady be like

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Speaker 2: you guys, fuck this up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, you guys go watch the change.

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Speaker 2: Watch it, my son. That's my favorite line.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember that line from it.

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Speaker 2: She screams my son about nineteen times. We could have

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Speaker 2: edited this down a little bit, I think.

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Speaker 1: So he's a foundling. The police run ads in the

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Speaker 1: local papers about the foundling to be like, does anyone

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Speaker 1: in whose baby this is? And no one comes forward.

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Speaker 1: So he's brought to live with a foster family in

439
00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:01,119
Speaker 1: watching New Jersey. And he's a playful little boy. He

440
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 1: has a good appetite. He loves to swim in the

441
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,880
Speaker 1: family's pool and help with grown up tasks like unloading

442
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 1: the groceries. The only times he seems fearful or upset

443
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,239
Speaker 1: is when a young man suddenly enters the room, and

444
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,440
Speaker 1: this causes him to cower in fear and sob which

445
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,880
Speaker 1: makes the family who were watching him believe he's been

446
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 1: abused by a young man. Here's a photo of the

447
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,440
Speaker 1: little boy with the nurse. He is so freaking cute.

448
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 2: My god, he's so cute, I know. And he looks

449
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:26,680
Speaker 2: a lot like that baby.

450
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that looks like my nephew Micah. So

451
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:29,680
Speaker 1: much to me too.

452
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, he looks like a perfect two year progression from that.

453
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 1: Total baby totally. The little boy's speech develops normally over

454
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 1: the year he spends in foster care. Sometimes he playfully

455
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,679
Speaker 1: puts up his fists and says, want a box. But

456
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,120
Speaker 1: he's gentle with the littler babies in the home. When

457
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,159
Speaker 1: they cry, he comforts them, saying don't cry. When he

458
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,239
Speaker 1: himself falls or hurts himself in some minor way, he

459
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 1: comforts himself with the same saying don't cry. So he

460
00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 1: remembers something from before. So this woman named Claire is

461
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:05,120
Speaker 1: the foster mom who cares for this little toddler, saying quote,

462
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 1: he is one of the most perfect boys I've ever known.

463
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,679
Speaker 1: He has charmed all of us with his dearness and

464
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 1: kind little ways. He has such a great love of life,

465
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 1: and he has made us aware of so many things.

466
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,399
Speaker 1: He was my special baby. End quote.

467
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,360
Speaker 2: Also, God bless the foster parents who are actually doing it,

468
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 2: totally doing it right, totally for real.

469
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 1: It's such an incredible act.

470
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:28,680
Speaker 2: Okay.

471
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 1: When the baby had been found, the detective in Newark

472
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 1: had alerted the FBI, and for the year that he

473
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 1: spends in foster care, the FBI are in and out

474
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 1: checking on him. They take molds of his ears, they

475
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 1: take blood samples, they take hair samples to see if

476
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,240
Speaker 1: the baby is little Paul Franzac. They do this same

477
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,640
Speaker 1: thing to thousands of other little boys around the country

478
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,440
Speaker 1: hoping to find Paul, but they don't find anything. And

479
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 1: we got an email from a murder reino, which I'll

480
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 1: read in full at some point because it's really interesting.

481
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,119
Speaker 1: I'll read it on a hometown in the future. But

482
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 1: it says this quote. My dad was born and adopted

483
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 1: on April twenty fourth, nineteen sixty four by my grandparents.

484
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,120
Speaker 1: On that same day, Paul Joseph Franzac was stolen from

485
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,159
Speaker 1: a Chicago hospital by a woman dressed as a nurse.

486
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 1: So her dad is born the same day and adopted

487
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 1: in Chicago.

488
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 2: That's wild.

489
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:18,719
Speaker 1: She goes on to say the FBI tested and examined

490
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 1: over ten thousand babies, one of which was my dad.

491
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 1: They came back multiple times to examine my dad and

492
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 1: took multiple hair and blood samples. The authorities were highly

493
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: suspicious of my grandparents, as they weren't my dad's biological parents,

494
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 1: and their lawyer was under suspicion of black market adoptions.

495
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: Oh and then she writes, uh, okay, And that's just

496
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: an excerpt that's from Ali. The whole emails really great.

497
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: I'll read at some point, but like, what are the

498
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 1: chances that I'm Murderina? Who listens one of those babies

499
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:46,640
Speaker 1: is her dad.

500
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 2: On the exact same day, Like that adopted too, that's wild.

501
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 2: What did they collect from babies who were just born

502
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 2: that they would be able to test it against back then?

503
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,719
Speaker 1: Yeah? Nothing, okay. So by March of nineteen sixty six,

504
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 1: when baby is just about two years old, they conclude

505
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 1: that they can't definitively say that the baby is Paul,

506
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 1: this little baby in foster care, but they also can't

507
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 1: rule it out. And of all the little boys who

508
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,160
Speaker 1: have been tested, this is the only time that they

509
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 1: are kind of like it might be him. So in

510
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: June of nineteen sixty six, the FBI makes the call

511
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 1: to the franz Acs. Authorities believe the baby looks like

512
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 1: Dora and Chester franz Ac, and when the couple arrive

513
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: in New Jersey to meet him, they believe it's their son.

514
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: Dora cries out, oh my god, that's my baby. I

515
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 1: know it's a joyous ending for everyone, though perhaps a

516
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: little bittersweet for the Claire Eckert, the foster mother. She'd

517
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: given the little boy the name Scott, and she writes

518
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: a letter to Dora saying, quote, for all this sadness

519
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,360
Speaker 1: you have both known, you are in for so much joy,

520
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,640
Speaker 1: for you will now see things through Scott's eyes and

521
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,120
Speaker 1: he can make them lovely. I know it's not touching.

522
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Scott becomes Paul, the baby that had been kidnapped,

523
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 2: that they had lost, and life goes on and Paul

524
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 2: lives a normal life in a working class neighborhood on

525
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 2: the South side of Chicago.

526
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: He's never told about the first two years of his life.

527
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: That's very VC Andrews of those parents, like what I mean.

528
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: I saw the abuse and incest, r yes.

529
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 2: And creepy addicts and stuff. But I mean it makes

530
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 2: sense that he's too young anyway at a total time.

531
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 2: But that was you know, that feels like back in

532
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 2: the time where it's like, oh, it's fine if he

533
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 2: never knows about, right, his real origins.

534
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: And maybe so he's still a kid at this point,

535
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: so maybe they would have told him when he's older.

536
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:30,959
Speaker 1: How is the kid going to wrap their head around that.

537
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 2: Sit down and just deal with it. Just like, face

538
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:34,120
Speaker 2: it straight.

539
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: You're a child, you're in a little adult right.

540
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 2: This is going to fuck up third grade for you.

541
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 2: But just try to wrap your mind.

542
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 1: Around imagine this. Okay, So Dora had been pregnant when

543
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: authorities told the frans Acts that they thought they had

544
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 1: found Paul. So Paul comes home and just six months later,

545
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: his little brother Dave is born. So like, what a

546
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: mind fuck? Yeah for those parents, especially right in December

547
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy four, when Paul is ten, he starts

548
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 1: snooping around the house like we all did, looking for

549
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: his Christmas presents. In the basement, he pulls a couch

550
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: away from the wall. You always got to boop with

551
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: the furniture.

552
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's right.

553
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: He exposes a little curl space behind it and he

554
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: shimmeys in and against the back wall. Hidden behind some

555
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: frame paintings are three shoe boxes and a hat box.

556
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 1: Oh to find.

557
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,239
Speaker 2: Those, to move something and be like these have been

558
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 2: hidden here totally.

559
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I found my grandma's and my grandpa's love letters

560
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: to each other before they were married. Snooping, So sorry, Grandma.

561
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing all people should realize. Little kids

562
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 2: snoop right, if you're not there, they're going to go

563
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 2: through your night stand hours totally, that's just a way

564
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 2: to pass the time. Don't keep your gross stuff in

565
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 2: obvious places. Don't be such a.

566
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 1: Per So Paul of course opens the boxes and realizes

567
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 1: they're full of newspaper clippings and letters, and he pulls

568
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: out a clipping and sees a picture of a newborn

569
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,479
Speaker 1: and a picture from his parents ten years younger. That photo,

570
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: he recognizes them and they're devastated, and the letters are

571
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: all from wells and people who had been praying for

572
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: the Franz acts. So Paul realizes that he's this baby.

573
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: He goes into the kitchen to the mom, like what

574
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 1: the hell. She gets angry at him for snooping, and

575
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: he's like, okay, but what you did is worse. What

576
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: the hell's going on? And he asked if those articles

577
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: are about him, and she says, quote, yes, those are

578
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,719
Speaker 1: about you. You were kidnapped, we found you, we love you,

579
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: and that is all there is to know. End quote. Okay, mom, okay, mom,

580
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: go watch TV. Of course, that's not all there is

581
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 1: to know, and Paul pretty much lives the rest of

582
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: his childhood and much of his adult life wondering if

583
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: he really is his parents missing baby, or if he

584
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: was for the first two years of his life someone else.

585
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 1: And while Paul does love his family, he says he

586
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: always feels a bit distant from them, and he had

587
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: felt that even before discovering all these newspaper clippings and

588
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 1: finding out the truth. He says, he's always had this

589
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,360
Speaker 1: underlying suspicion that he's an outsider to his family, which

590
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: I wish I felt that way too. I find those

591
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 1: motherfuckers are my blood and I know that.

592
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 2: You say something, Janet says, Yeah, it's like I.

593
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: See where I got all my problems, right.

594
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 2: I mean it's also interesting because I wonder if he

595
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 2: would always feel that, no matter if he was flesh

596
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 2: and bleashure because of the right, Like, even if it

597
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 2: turned out to be true, it just, yeah, those kind

598
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: of foundational years he was in a different place, and

599
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 2: that in and of itself, right, could just be creating

600
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 2: that fel.

601
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: No, that makes letal sense. He doesn't get a satisfactory

602
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: answer until much later in the interim he grows up.

603
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 1: He graduates high school, moves to Arizona, gets married, gets divorced,

604
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: works a bunch of different jobs, and never quite seems

605
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: to figure out what the right thing for him is,

606
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: as a lot of us fucking do. But at age forty,

607
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: in around two thousand and five, he decides to give

608
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: acting a try, and he actually makes a living at it.

609
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: Side note, he's fucking super handsome. Let's take a lick

610
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: at you, like, I want to tell you what it

611
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: looks like before you see it. He looks like I

612
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: think Chris Hansen and a young Keith Morrison combined, And

613
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: he looks like the perfect like twenty. He looks like

614
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: a Dateline or twenty twenty host, like he could be

615
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: telling you about his own crime. Oh so here he is, okay, hi,

616
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: hi Fox. So he's based in Las Vegas at this

617
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: point he gets a lot of commercial and print ad campaigns,

618
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: and then he gets a nice gig as George Clooney's

619
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: stand in on Ocean's eleven Nice. So like, clearly, don't

620
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: you see Chris Hansen and Keith Morris.

621
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 2: That's a square jaw.

622
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: So he meets a woman named Michelle and they fall

623
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: in love and get married, and then Michelle gets pregnant,

624
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: and at this point, you know, Paul is forced to

625
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: confront this question that snagged him his whole life, because

626
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: his doctors start asking him about his family's medical history.

627
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people find out those

628
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: stories that they send us for the hometown stories.

629
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the ancestry dot com Yeah, type of curiosity

630
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 2: that then unravels.

631
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: Speaking of Hello, this is before the explosion of DNA

632
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: genealogy kits, but at home paternity tests are at this

633
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: point available at drugstores Maribovich, So Paul buys one, and

634
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: while his parents are in town visiting them, he asked

635
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: them to take the test, and they do, but then

636
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: they start to have regrets. They ask Paul not to

637
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: send the swabs in for testing, like, just don't we

638
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: don't even want to know. Paul agonizes over the decision

639
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: for a week, but ultimately he sends the test in,

640
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: and a few weeks later he gets to answer that

641
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: no one wants to hear. But it feels like everyone

642
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: kind of already knows Dora and Chester are not Paul's

643
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: biological parents. I know, I mean, but.

644
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: It also has to be a little bit like, hey,

645
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 2: at least I know I can trust my gut. Right

646
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 2: if I feel something and I have this instinct, then

647
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: I know there's no reason to follow it, like Limbo

648
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 2: is not a place to live your hoole.

649
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: Paul's parents are at first furious at him for sending

650
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: him the test, and they're devastated having their nightmare reopened

651
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: and the realization that they have no idea where their

652
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: biological son has been for more than forty years, like

653
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,239
Speaker 1: they could trick themselves into thinking they had him, and

654
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: now yes, the devastation that it's all coming back coming

655
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: true again, and this opens a rift between Paul and

656
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: his family that lasts for the next several years, as

657
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: Paul begins to piece things together on his own. At

658
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: this point, Paul conducts exhaustive research about his own life.

659
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: He speaks with a woman named Mary Hendry, whose father,

660
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: John T. Carton, had been a Chicago police lieutenant and

661
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: had run the kidnapping investigation. Originally, she says, this woman says, quote,

662
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: I remember my father standing in the kitchen of her home,

663
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: shaking his head. He talked about what good people the

664
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: franz Acs were, and how badly he felt for them,

665
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: and what a good job they would do. Raising the baby.

666
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: But he also said that the child they took home

667
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: was not their baby. He knew, he was certain it

668
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: wasn't the right boy. My father told us The FBI

669
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: and the police both agreed the child was not the

670
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: kidnapped baby, but the frans Acts were such good people

671
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: they agreed to let it unfold the way it did end. Quote,

672
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: So there's a two year old baby missing. This two

673
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: year old baby needs a family. That's all just what's

674
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: a cognitive dissonance? What's it called?

675
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, or just like selective? Yeah, so everyone denial Yeah, Yeah.

676
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: Isn't that sad?

677
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 2: And it reminds me of the change link. It's that

678
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 2: same thing of like changeling version is much more sad

679
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 2: because the mother immediately knew.

680
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

681
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 2: But yeah, when you're in that situation and someone's like

682
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 2: the dates line up, the timing of this, that that

683
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 2: then you just want to be out of your misery.

684
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 2: I feel like you'd go, you'd be a little psychotic

685
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 2: if your fucking baby was kidnapped, because then it makes

686
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 2: sense how mad they are at him when he opens

687
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: it back up, because they're like, we can't face the

688
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 2: fact that then we gave up.

689
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: Paul shares the story with the media and it attracts

690
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: a lot of attention. So the FBI reopens the Paul

691
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: Fronsac case and in twenty thirteen he's contacted by Ancestry

692
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: and they tell him about their new DNA genealogy project,

693
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: and so Paul submits his DNA. There are a lot

694
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: of false leads, and then a group of genetic genealogists

695
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: called the DNA Detectives, led by our girl C. C. Moore,

696
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: who's of course the head of Parabon Nanolab's genetic genealogy unit.

697
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: She winds up taking on Paul's case, and we know

698
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: she can solve anything great. So in twenty fifteen, they

699
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: finally figure out who Paul is. He was born the

700
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: little baby who was found outside the store at the

701
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: department store. He was born Jack Rosenthal and shockingly, it

702
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: turns out he was a twin. Ooh, so this is

703
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: probably the saddest twist in the story. Paul learns that

704
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: he had been born in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Remember

705
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: he was found in Newark, and that he and his

706
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: twin sister Jill, so it was Jack and Joe had

707
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: disappeared in nineteen sixty five. So he travels back to

708
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: New Jersey.

709
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 2: He meets relatives who said that they had seen him

710
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: and Jill as babies, and then suddenly his parents started

711
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 2: making up excuses as to why he and his sister.

712
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: Were not around anymore.

713
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 2: What I know, like they just dropped them off in

714
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 2: front of a store. Well, there are other relatives who

715
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: say that they had seen Jack and Jill abused and neglected.

716
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 2: Paul learns that his father had been a Korean War

717
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 2: veteran and likely had PTSD. Remember he get scared when

718
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 2: a younger man will walk into the room. He learns

719
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 2: that his mother had been an alcoholic and both of

720
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 2: Paul's biological parents had died in the nineties of cancer.

721
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: So Paul pursues multiple avenues to try to find his

722
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,479
Speaker 1: twin sister, including digging up the lot where his biological parents'

723
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: house had been. Wow, he never finds anything.

724
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 2: Oh, he was digging up the lot like his sister

725
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 2: could be buried.

726
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, because after they were children, no one saw anything.

727
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: He knows he survived and what happened to him, but

728
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: no one knows what happened to Jill. The working theory

729
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: is that Jill may have died in their biological parents

730
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: care due to abuse or neglect, and that Paul was

731
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: then abandoned at the same time because they both kind

732
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: of disappeared together. So Paul also has a biological older

733
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: sister who's only about two years older than him. He

734
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: meets her, she has no memory of him or Jill.

735
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: He also has a brother who he emails and who

736
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: says he doesn't want to be in contact. Both of

737
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: these siblings, of course, had extremely difficult childhoods. So for

738
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: about five years, this is where the investigation is at

739
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: a stanstill. Paul publishes his book The Foundling in twenty seventeen,

740
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: never having found the real little boy who was stolen

741
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: from his parents. That's like he solved this mystery of

742
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: who he was, but there's still this big question mark.

743
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: And so in twenty twenty it comes out that the

744
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: FBI had identified the real baby of Dora and Chester

745
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: a year before, in twenty nineteen. His name had been

746
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: Kevin Ray Baby, but his existence is only reported on

747
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: after his death of cancer, so he had found out

748
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: shortly after finding the test results out. So he didn't

749
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: really want anyone to know as him, I think, or

750
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: we don't really know what was going on there. Kevin's

751
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: children had seen reports about Paul's search for answers, and

752
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 1: for reasons that are still unclear, had suspected that their

753
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 1: father is the real Paul Franzac. Kevin had taken a

754
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: DNA test and these suspicions were confirmed, and then he

755
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: passes away from cancer, and then the FBI lets everyone know.

756
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: Kevin had lived in a small town in Michigan called Manton.

757
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 1: Friends and neighbors remember him as a very kind man.

758
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: So here's a photo of the baby picture and an

759
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,439
Speaker 1: age progression drawing of what he would look like. Oh okay,

760
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: now here's the baby and what he actually looks like.

761
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 1: So look at that guy. It looks just like him.

762
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: And then think of fake George.

763
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 2: Clooney, Like, that doesn't look anything like that. I guess

764
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 2: you can tell what a baby's going to look like.

765
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 2: But isn't that crazy? That's so close? Wait, go back, Yeah,

766
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 2: that's that's wild.

767
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's their real baby. I know that's sad. Okay.

768
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: Before Kevin's death, he had gotten to speak on the

769
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: phone multiple times with Dora Franzac. At this point, the

770
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: case is still considered open and very few details about

771
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: Kevin and what happened to him after he was kidnaped

772
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 1: from the hospital have been reported, but we do know this.

773
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: Kevin had been raised by a woman named Lorraine Fountain.

774
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: She died in two thousand and four. And Lorraine had

775
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: been dating a doctor from Chicago and then moved to

776
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 1: Arkansas for about a year, and when she returned to Michigan,

777
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: where her family lived, she had a baby with her.

778
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: But Paul, who now has a podcast called The Franzac Files,

779
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: and he's actively investigating his whole story and trying to

780
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: figure everything out. Yeah, it's not funny. He doesn't believe

781
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: that Lorraine was the one who kidnapped the baby. He

782
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: believes that she had some kind of connection to organized

783
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 1: crime in Chicago. And Paul believes that Lorraine was paid

784
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 1: to forge a birth certificate and raise Kevin.

785
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 2: As her own. Why though, I don't know. It's almost

786
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 2: like was there some black market for babies? Probably right,

787
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 2: I don't know. Does the mafia trade in babies? That

788
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 2: doesn't seem like their style, I know, but like maybe

789
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 2: one of the mafioso's girlfriends wanted a baby and so

790
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 2: they had kidnapped one and it didn't work out, and

791
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: then they couldn't.

792
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: Just give it back right.

793
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 2: They had a like, yeah, that's going so far around

794
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: the bend. It's easy, baby, not easy to get a baby.

795
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: Take it from me, Georgia. It's really God, did you

796
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 2: watch that documentary about the woman who would just go

797
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,919
Speaker 2: take them out of people's houses. No, it's even worse

798
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,399
Speaker 2: than that maternal instinct, internal instinct. Is it good?

799
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: It's so it's so troubling.

800
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 2: Okay, it's just you wouldn't because I saw something on

801
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 2: TikTok talking about it, but the people were so freaked

802
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 2: out that we're telling it. I was like, should I not?

803
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: You've covered a case very similar to Okay, it's so psychotic.

804
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 1: You just couldn't.

805
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 2: You can't eat ladies that want to be pregnant and

806
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 2: go after pregnant ladies something along those lines, lying about

807
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 2: pregnancy and then the extremes that they go through when

808
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 2: they get caught and just won't let it go. Here's

809
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 2: the thing. We have a lot of shame about who

810
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 2: we've been in our lives and the obsessions that we've had.

811
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: Absolutely the mistakes we've made so many, But every once

812
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 2: in a while and maybe That's what this is all about,

813
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 2: is looking at these extreme human beings. I'm going at

814
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 2: least I never stole someone else's baby because I was

815
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:56,959
Speaker 2: obsessed with having a.

816
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: Baby totally and lied about being pregnant.

817
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 2: Why why?

818
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: I can't even understand why you would lie to it,

819
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: which makes me think I'm a good person.

820
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 2: I mean, all I want to do is get drunk

821
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 2: at the Rustic in and eat grilled cheese sandwiches all

822
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 2: day long.

823
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: That sounds great.

824
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,720
Speaker 2: I don't want anything to do with anybody's baby. No, same,

825
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 2: No thanks, Paul. Are we allowed to say, send us

826
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 2: your babies, we don't want anything to do stories?

827
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, send us tell us how hard baby is. Paul

828
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: Is recently put out a call for more information. He's

829
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: hoping to hear from anyone who lived in Chicago from

830
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two to nineteen sixty four who frequented an

831
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: establishment known as Durkin's Bar. And I looked it up,

832
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: and it was like the rustic dive bars.

833
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 2: It was one of those bars were like one o'clock

834
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 2: in the afternoon, people were already drunk.

835
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 1: Kind of a place. It's not like that anymore. Unfortunately,

836
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: it's a little more like college ros. But it still exists,

837
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: So ask your dads everyone, what's the theory. I don't know.

838
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: Listening to the podcast.

839
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 2: Somebody in there, Yeah, I want to listen to that.

840
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: Maybe that the dad, his actual dad used to go there,

841
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: you know, the one who was had PTSD and maybe

842
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: talked about his children.

843
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 2: Oh, you know, like in a drunken way.

844
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: We're doing him. Or his mom was an alcoholic, so

845
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 1: maybe she fucking hung out there and just.

846
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 2: Totally Oh that's interesting, guys. Ask your grandfathers. Piece it together, dude.

847
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: The official FBI investigation into who exactly took Kevin aka

848
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: Little Paul when he was just two days old also

849
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,439
Speaker 1: remains open, and that is the story of the Paul

850
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,439
Speaker 1: Franzac triple disappearance.

851
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 2: God, I know, wait, I have an idea. Why don't

852
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 2: they Why don't they? How would you do it? Forward

853
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 2: age the illustration of the lady in the newspaper, yeah,

854
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 2: or or backwards age something. Do something with that information,

855
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: because that's a that's a witness sighting.

856
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's so vague that I can't imagine. Yeah,

857
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: it just looks like any it looks like a nurse,

858
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, So bananas crazy.

859
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 2: I know you've done it again. I know.

860
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I told you.

861
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. I think it's great that Paul Franzig

862
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,919
Speaker 2: has started a podcast. I think that's exactly where things

863
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 2: like that belong. And then talk to people who listen

864
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 2: to these podcasts and similar podcasts can get involved. Yeah, God,

865
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 2: solve it.

866
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: Tell us we want to do a true crime update

867
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: soon about this case. Please.

868
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 2: Luckily, my story is all about evidence and facts, collecting

869
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 2: evidence and facts, and hey, it's a little bit of

870
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 2: a turn, I see. I think you'll enjoy it. It

871
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 2: begins in the mid eighties, which I know you like

872
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 2: in southeastern Michigan, which you also like. He's just a

873
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 2: mission in and around Flint, Okay, right, which is, if

874
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 2: you don't know, not too far from Detroit. It's a

875
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 2: difficult time. The mid eighties is a difficult time for

876
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 2: many communities in this part of Michigan. General motors has

877
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 2: begun closing local plants, costing thousands of people their livelihoods,

878
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 2: and then the wave of crack cocaine hits the streets.

879
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,760
Speaker 2: Over the last two decades, drugs like heroin have taken

880
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 2: a toll on many Michiganders. But crack spawns a uniquely

881
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 2: devastating crisis, and the States violent crime rates soars and

882
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 2: peaks in nineteen eighty six. So it is around that time,

883
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 2: and so of course when that happens, the Anti Drug

884
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 2: Abuse Act of nineteen eighty six becomes federal law, and

885
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 2: that kicks off Ronald Reagan's war on drugs. That's when

886
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: I grew up as a little kid, like drilled it

887
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,720
Speaker 2: in your fucking head made me want to do drugs

888
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 2: so bad it was, you know, it's funny. It makes

889
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 2: me think it The first time anyone ever offered me

890
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 2: Potter was a freshman in high school, and I burst

891
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:50,320
Speaker 2: into tears. Wow, that's how intense Nancy Reagan's She fucking

892
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 2: bent little finger pointing at us. I mean, those.

893
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: People blight light on humanity.

894
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 2: Don't upset the ghost of my mother, who will come

895
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 2: and haunt us forever because she agrees with it. She

896
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 2: agrees with it to the point where she will cross

897
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 2: back over to lecture both of us about how Ronald

898
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 2: Reagan ruined this. Pay.

899
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: I will sit fucking Chris cross applesaws and listen to

900
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: Nurse Pat tell me everything.

901
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: Dude, that is how I was raised. If you ever like,

902
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 2: why is she the way she is? Because dinner was

903
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 2: either my dad being hilarious or my mom literally predicting

904
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 2: like an ancient Greek oracle the future, where it's like,

905
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 2: who's going to take care of these people? These laws

906
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: that they're passing like the insane, so much fear and

907
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 2: intense pattern recognition, which I'm always very proud of she

908
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 2: passed it down. All that is to say, war on

909
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 2: drugs kicks off in this country, and it kicks into overdrive,

910
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 2: introducing new laws like mandatory minimum sentences for drug crimes.

911
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 2: In recent years, public health experts have criticized these policies

912
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 2: as being racist, punitive, and not particularly effective at addressing

913
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 2: drug use in any way. It's under lying issues or

914
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 2: drug sales on the streets just didn't help really anything

915
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 2: at all. But it was the eighties, so when Nancy

916
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 2: Reagan appears in a telecast from the White House wearing

917
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 2: her little red sweater and begging young Americans to quote

918
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 2: just say no, the idea of the war on drugs

919
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 2: becomes broadly popular. It's like, Oh, they're really doing something

920
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,280
Speaker 2: about these drug addicts and these people in this crime

921
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,760
Speaker 2: the messaging was inescapable. It was everywhere. Here she is, remember.

922
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: Fucking shampoo set and that mister t chain around her neck,

923
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: fucking hate her.

924
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 2: Okay, that mister teaching. She was good friends with.

925
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: Mister That's right.

926
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 2: It's just so weird because like the first lady passing down, this,

927
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 2: this is what we're all going to do about. It's

928
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 2: just such a different time. It's like it was Victorian

929
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 2: times or something. How we were all just in the

930
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 2: monoculture going, yes, Nancy, you're right.

931
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: Your husband's an actor, so that makes you what.

932
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 2: That makes you also an actor?

933
00:43:59,200 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: That's right.

934
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 2: Okay. So by nineteen ninety, the war on drugs is

935
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,240
Speaker 2: in full swing, yet lots of people are still buying

936
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 2: and selling drugs. It turns out, enter a man named

937
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,439
Speaker 2: Lacey Brown. He is a big, rough and tumble, chain

938
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 2: smoking forty seven year old North Carolinian living in southeastern Michigan.

939
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 2: He's got long hair, he's got a big beard, pierced ears.

940
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 2: His nickname is Moon, which is a double entendre. Not

941
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 2: only does he stay up all night drinking, he also

942
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 2: gets a kick out of dropping his pants and showing

943
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 2: his bare ass to people at parties.

944
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: Which wasn't problematic back then. There was no height of

945
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: humor back.

946
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 2: Then, streaking mooning people, being a peeping tom.

947
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: The amount a grown man's asses we saw as humor. Yes,

948
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 1: this is unsettling.

949
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:44,320
Speaker 2: It was NonStop.

950
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: Yeah.

951
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 2: So, and let's take a look at Moons just so

952
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 2: we get the sense of the guy who likes mooning

953
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 2: people so much. That's his nickname, the guy in the front.

954
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 2: It's the front guy with the long hair in the

955
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 2: beard and overalls. Essentially based on that appearance, you would

956
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 2: assume he's either a drug dealer or maybe a drug purchaser.

957
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 2: Is he He's actually an undercover?

958
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:06,760
Speaker 1: Oh fuck?

959
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 2: And he is in the area to bust drug rings.

960
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 2: This is the story of Lacey Moon Brown and the

961
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:15,720
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety wedding sting.

962
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I don't this is like a theme.

963
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 1: I'm really fucking obsessed with that. We just don't hear

964
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: enough of.

965
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 2: Yes, Tom foolery of the cops in the eighties. Yeah,

966
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 2: undercover in a really dangerous situation. Yes, and like actually

967
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 2: embedding yourself your whole life is that role? Yeah?

968
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 1: Like in the mafia too, and they have like I

969
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 1: just find that so fascinating.

970
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the movie Donnie Brasco. Right, It's just like

971
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 2: he's in and he can't get out. It is such

972
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 2: a crazy life. So this whole story that I'm about

973
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 2: to tell you is based on a twenty fifteen Atlantic

974
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 2: article by a reporter named Jeff Mash entitled The Wedding Sting.

975
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 2: The rest of the sources are in our show notes,

976
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 2: but that article is the primary source. So this man,

977
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 2: Lacey Brown's personal journey that led him to law enforcement

978
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 2: is unorthodox, to say the least. This is according to him.

979
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,439
Speaker 2: This is his story. He starts drinking when he's six

980
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 2: years old. He joins the Marines in his twenties, but

981
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 2: gets kicked out for violent conduct in the marine as

982
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 2: a civilian. I like that. I know, isn't that the point?

983
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 2: As a civilian, he racks up charges for everything from

984
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 2: a legal possession of moonshine to assault. In nineteen seventy two,

985
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 2: when he's around thirty years old, he finds himself in

986
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 2: a jail cell following yet another arrest for felony assault

987
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 2: with a deadly weapon. This is rock bottom for him.

988
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 2: He's going through severe alcohol withdrawal and he begs for

989
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 2: God's mercy. And then his felony is suddenly reduced to

990
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 2: a misdemeanor and he's released from custody. He takes it

991
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 2: as a sign that God is listening to him, and

992
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 2: he vows to change his life. So he course corrects

993
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 2: by becoming a police officer.

994
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 1: A little bit of laugh, bro, He's like, don't go fishing,

995
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,240
Speaker 1: don't just like take a sharp rite.

996
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 2: How about you could become a.

997
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: Plasterer, totally welder something. He's welder, help.

998
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 2: People, postman. That's perfect, yes, right, bring your beard around.

999
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 2: You can moon people if you want. At the end

1000
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,240
Speaker 2: of your shift. In nineteen seventy seven, against all odds,

1001
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 2: Moon graduates from the police academy and he gets his

1002
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 2: tart at a department just outside of Detroit.

1003
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 1: Wait the violent guy.

1004
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, too violent for the Marines, right for the Marine Corps.

1005
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,879
Speaker 2: Right now he's at your local police department. But he's

1006
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 2: not your typical police officer. Later on, one of his

1007
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,919
Speaker 2: colleagues will say, quote, if you saw him, you'd never

1008
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 2: believe he was a cop. He had food stuck in

1009
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 2: his beard. I mean I buy it. That's way way

1010
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 2: to give a quote.

1011
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, way to talk about.

1012
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 2: What's important, Like I slept with his wife or something something.

1013
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 2: He's just like, this guy's a pig. But another coworker

1014
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 2: describes him as quote more believable as a bad guy

1015
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 2: than he was as a police officer end quote. So

1016
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 2: Moon's unconventional look and wild disposition work for him, especially

1017
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 2: of course when he starts going undercover, and as he does,

1018
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 2: he is so effective that he basically becomes a free

1019
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 2: agent of sorts, doing contracted work for everyone from the

1020
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 2: DEA to the FBI to various drug units across Michigan.

1021
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 2: So I'm sure that not very many cops looked like

1022
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 2: him or had that kind of built in there's no

1023
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 2: way you could be a cop energy, right, and the

1024
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 2: like he had so many years to practice being a

1025
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:28,479
Speaker 2: bad guy.

1026
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 1: Yeah you can't. If you're twenty one and you're a cop.

1027
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: You've never broken the law in your life. Maybe yeah,

1028
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: you're not. You don't know how they act, you haven't

1029
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 1: hung out with bad people. So he kind of knows that.

1030
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 2: He knows he's drawing from a rich well of experience.

1031
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 2: And also it's the thing I think of on TikTok

1032
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 2: all the time, which is people don't understand what good

1033
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 2: acting is. They think that good acting is like the thing,

1034
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 2: and it's like no, no, no, you have to go

1035
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 2: way under and make people think you're not doing anything.

1036
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't do that.

1037
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 2: Yeah it's hard. It's very hard. It's a true skill.

1038
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 2: But for somebody that's actually going under cover, it's like,

1039
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 2: I'm sure they saw this guy. We're like, holy shit,

1040
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 2: he's so believable. Get him while you can, because the

1041
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 2: other guys are like, i'll put my part on the

1042
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 2: other side and then we'll get him Nancy. So it's

1043
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 2: dangerous work. Of course. Moon regularly works nights to ingratiate

1044
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:19,919
Speaker 2: himself with the local criminals while investigating a full range

1045
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 2: of crimes. He gets shot at, he is robbed, he

1046
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,280
Speaker 2: is beaten, but his legend grows with each new job,

1047
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 2: which usually ends in a big cinematic sting operation and

1048
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,399
Speaker 2: multiple arrests. So he goes in and he does his time,

1049
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 2: and he makes his friends and then he all blows up.

1050
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 2: And I love these though, because then he gets arrested

1051
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 2: on the scene too and taken away. I always was like,

1052
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 2: how does he move on to the next thing when

1053
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 2: they all know that he's the app the guy forget it?

1054
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 2: You get it with a.

1055
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 1: Lot of Coca cola drink to that and power through it.

1056
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 2: No, exactly, And I think that keeping people's cover is

1057
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 2: so crucial, But then again, you just I just want

1058
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 2: to keep on putting it in. The parameters of this

1059
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 2: was the War on drugs, which was logical kind of

1060
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,919
Speaker 2: like the rebirth of like that cop culture of leave

1061
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:07,320
Speaker 2: it to them they know best.

1062
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,839
Speaker 1: It's like the police state. That's what it. I mean,

1063
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: not that it's not now we all know that, but like, well,

1064
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:13,399
Speaker 1: that's kind of when it was.

1065
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 2: The source of it, where everyone jumped on board and said, no,

1066
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 2: this is the best way to handle our problems.

1067
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're not doing anything wrong, then you shouldn't

1068
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:21,359
Speaker 1: you know all that.

1069
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 2: Shit that Now in twenty twenty six, it's like people

1070
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 2: are just like, oh, wait a second, did they not

1071
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 2: have our best interest? Right? As the robot dog with

1072
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 2: guns attached to its head walks down and.

1073
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 1: The only the only good thing that came out of

1074
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 1: the War on drugs.

1075
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 2: I have it at my house. Murderino gave it to me.

1076
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 2: It's the fucking case that you open up and they

1077
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 2: show you every kind of drug that you could get

1078
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 2: that they brought to an elementary school and showed all

1079
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 2: the kids what a do be looked like and what

1080
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 2: fucking quailus looked like, and so murdering knows dad was

1081
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 2: a cop when in her fucking garage. Yes, sent it

1082
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 2: to me. Here's the DARE program in a case.

1083
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 1: Treasure I have to I'll bring it for a fan

1084
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 1: call video.

1085
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 2: That's a great idea. That's a that was a true

1086
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 2: highlight of our early days.

1087
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 1: Every time I see it, I'm like, this, everything's worth it.

1088
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 1: All the down's worth.

1089
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 2: It for that and those haunted dolls that we had

1090
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 2: for a while that we really piqued. We'll get back

1091
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 2: there someday. Okay. So the thing about this guy is

1092
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 2: that he was really in it, and he was really

1093
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 2: doing it so like, for example, one of his most

1094
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 2: famous arrests was he goes to a local carnival and

1095
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 2: he follows a suspect onto the Zipper, my favorite ride

1096
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 2: at the carnival that I've talked about postil times. He

1097
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 2: actually like does stuff like that and arrest.

1098
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: Go on, bro, No, the arrest stand over there.

1099
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 2: He's like spinning in a circle chasing him, and the

1100
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 2: eternal like you'll always be behind him. Another time he

1101
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,919
Speaker 2: posts a fake obituary for a living suspect that he's

1102
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 2: just apprehended and stages a fake funeral for him. And

1103
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 2: when that suspects criminal associates show upright and more in him,

1104
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 2: pays respects, moon arrests a bunch of so smart so

1105
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 2: for background. Officers in most cases are allowed to use

1106
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 2: deception to lure suspects to an arrest, but it becomes

1107
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 2: entrapment if the officer's actions directly result in a suspect

1108
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,439
Speaker 2: committee a crime they otherwise would not have committed. Right,

1109
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 2: So there's a kind of a difference there where it's

1110
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 2: like that used to be the concern that's the surpaco

1111
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 2: world of like crooked cops versus the ones that are

1112
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 2: trying to do.

1113
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 1: Good planting you can't plant evidence, but no, blah blah blah.

1114
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 2: And I think this is where all of that starts

1115
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 2: to flip in that serious way of there's this weird

1116
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 2: kind of trust of like, you know, your local authorities

1117
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 2: are going to fight a war on drugs and we're

1118
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,479
Speaker 2: all going to support them in it, and that idea, Yeah,

1119
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 2: it's for the greater good. It's getting drugs out of

1120
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 2: children's hands. When it's like, that's not what's happening. It's

1121
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 2: not what happened being fucking lied to, and how did

1122
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 2: those drugs get onto the street in the first place? Right, Okay,

1123
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 2: So back to this undercover cop Moon, who is very dedicated.

1124
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 2: He actually meets his wife while working undercover. He arrests

1125
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:58,800
Speaker 2: her brother for making a bomb.

1126
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: Does he trick her? I hate that part. They do

1127
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 1: get married and stuff, and like the wife doesn't know.

1128
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:04,919
Speaker 1: Oh no, no she does, Oh she does.

1129
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, So basically he has to go undercover to

1130
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 2: meet the brother to arrest him for bomb making, and

1131
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 2: then he's like, well the once, once, that is over.

1132
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 2: So now we're in nineteen ninety. Moon is working undercover

1133
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 2: in the Flint, Michigan area, investigating the local drug trade,

1134
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 2: and based on reporting, it seems that this drug trade

1135
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 2: was much more pot focus than it was crack cocaine focused.

1136
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 2: He is working alongside a thirty eight year old Flint

1137
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 2: police officer named Debbie Williams and Jeff Maish. The author

1138
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 2: from that Atlantic article describes Debbie as one of only

1139
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 2: a few women who quote crawled, shot, and boxed her

1140
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 2: way through the male dominated police academy. In Flint.

1141
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and doctor Clary starling over here.

1142
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 2: Right, she had to jump over that thing gray sweatshirt.

1143
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 2: So Moon and Debbie work undercover together, posing his boyfriend

1144
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 2: and girlfriend drug addicts. Okay, Debbie will later say quote,

1145
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 2: I had to tell Moon, you have to remember to

1146
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,319
Speaker 2: pretend you're in love with me. He was kind of

1147
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 2: embarrassed by it all. So he wasn't a great actor.

1148
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 2: I'm sure it was just like him as himself. But

1149
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 2: then Debbie comes long and they have to kind of

1150
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 2: set up these things. It was one of his characters

1151
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 2: was in a relationship, and so he had to pretend

1152
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 2: like he was in a relationship, and that's when his

1153
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 2: acting got stressed, strained, a little bit weird. Right, But

1154
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 2: to the people that they are regularly buying drugs from

1155
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 2: the couple is believable. Debbie has bright blonde hair and

1156
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,479
Speaker 2: a stoner persona, and it seems like a natural fit

1157
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 2: with Moon's bearded, chainsmoking, kind of tough guy persona. Rounding

1158
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 2: out this team is Sergeant Vic was solition of the

1159
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:44,879
Speaker 2: shiawassee County Sheriff's Department. Vix in his mid forties. He's

1160
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 2: essential to this operation because Basically, Moon and Debbie go

1161
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 2: and they hang out, they make their drug deals and

1162
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 2: they buy and they talk to people, and then they

1163
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 2: meet covertly with Vic. They get into a car, usually

1164
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 2: in a remote parking lot. They do basically an info dump.

1165
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 2: Tell him everything they've just seen and heard in the

1166
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:05,399
Speaker 2: names and the dates and everything into a recorder he has,

1167
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 2: and then that will later be kind of processed and

1168
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 2: used as evidence. Vic knows the undercover world himself. In

1169
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 2: the eighties, he worked as a when undercover is a

1170
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 2: biker named Animal to infiltrate the local cocaine trade. That

1171
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 2: was very dangerous. He found himself walking a tight line

1172
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 2: between not blowing his cover and not breaking the law.

1173
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:29,439
Speaker 2: Do they have to do drugs, Well, it's interesting that's

1174
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 2: illegal that they do drugs. But then of course testing

1175
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 2: people and making them do drugs to prove they're not

1176
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 2: cops is very common, so there are times where to

1177
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 2: keep covered they do have to do it. So, for example,

1178
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 2: once a man shoved a gun in Vic's face demanding

1179
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 2: he smoke a joint to prove he wasn't a cop.

1180
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 2: Obviously he smoked the joint, but he usually found ways

1181
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 2: they got very creative about how to stay clean in

1182
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,760
Speaker 2: those situations. He actually carried around a modified coke straw

1183
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 2: that had special blockage kind of compartment inside so he

1184
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 2: could snort coke and it would catch the coke in

1185
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 2: the straw but never go into his nose.

1186
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 1: Wow, bummer, totally what a waste.

1187
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, So, because then they would have to

1188
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 2: get drug tested. I mean, they couldn't lose people to

1189
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 2: become drug addicts, right, because drugs are bad for you.

1190
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 1: Ye.

1191
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 2: So Ultimately, Moon, Debbie, and Vic spend months building relationships

1192
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 2: with these local dealers and then criminal cases against them.

1193
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 2: But Moon has spent more than a decade in law

1194
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,879
Speaker 2: enforcement at this point, and this high risk work isn't

1195
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 2: paying that much. He and his wife, Beth now have

1196
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,879
Speaker 2: small children, and she will later say, quote, there were

1197
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 2: times we couldn't afford to eat and I felt bitter.

1198
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 2: Wow yeah yeah. All I ever wanted was a roof

1199
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 2: over our head end quote. So together they dream of

1200
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 2: a quieter, easier life, maybe back in Moon's native North Carolina,

1201
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 2: where they could buy land and settle down. So that's

1202
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 2: kind of the plan that they come up with, But

1203
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 2: of course Moon wants to do one last big job.

1204
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 1: You can never do one last big job.

1205
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 2: They always have to. These men spend. The longer the beard,

1206
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 2: the more they have to do one last big So

1207
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 2: in September of nineteen ninety, Moon pulls Vick aside and says, quote,

1208
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 2: I'd kind of like to go out with a bang.

1209
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 2: Do you got any ideas? So Vic says, yes, I do, buddy,

1210
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 2: because Vick has come up with the ultimate drug sting,

1211
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 2: one that enables them to arrest all the suspects they've

1212
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 2: been investigating over the last several months in one big

1213
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 2: fell swoop, while saving the local cash strapped police departments

1214
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 2: big money, A wedding, A wedding, I love it, A

1215
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 2: fucking wedding. Oh they're gonna throw a fake wedding. What's

1216
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 2: crazy to me is reading the phrase the local cash

1217
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 2: strapped police departments, which here in twenty twenty six just

1218
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 2: doesn't exist anymore, because they figured out politically, you take

1219
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 2: the war on drugs energy, you keep building that of

1220
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 2: we've got a fire time, fear, fear, fear, and now

1221
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 2: we have police budget lines that are one hundred times

1222
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 2: longer than any other budget, and the teachers make minus

1223
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 2: five hundred dollars a day. Curiously, it's fucking insanity, Okay,

1224
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 2: there to say that every time. So the same afternoon

1225
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 2: that Vic and Moon are having this discussion, Moon calls

1226
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 2: his partner, Debbie and asks her to fake marry him.

1227
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 2: She says sure, And now the Shiawassee. County Sheriff's Department

1228
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 2: allots a very tight budget for this team to pull

1229
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 2: off this wedding sting, so they shift into planning mode.

1230
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 2: Writer Jeff Mash reports, quote, in the weeks leading up

1231
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 2: to the wedding, cops put aside crime reports and fingerprints

1232
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 2: to work on seating plans and floral arrangements.

1233
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 1: What if one of them was like secretly.

1234
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 2: Like this is all I've heard, I'm so good at this.

1235
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: And then like quit to become a wedding planner.

1236
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they're the guy that's like standing there with

1237
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:56,959
Speaker 2: the short cigar and like the you know, the comb

1238
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 2: over never know, and he just like taps into something beautiful.

1239
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 2: He has a true vision. Well, that didn't happen in

1240
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 2: this wedding because it's so hilariously bad and funny to me.

1241
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 2: So in the week's leading up to the wedding, the

1242
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 2: operations room began to sound like a wedding planner's office

1243
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 2: as grizzled lawman interrogated caterers. During briefings. They discussed whether

1244
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 2: the bride should wear her hair up or down, how

1245
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 2: much they would spend on food, and how they would

1246
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 2: squeeze Moon into a tuxedo.

1247
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

1248
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 2: He's a little the beard got trimmed from that first

1249
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 2: picture you saw.

1250
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, he looks like a trucker, like a biker. Yeah,

1251
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 1: for sure, he's very tired. I like that tile in

1252
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 1: the bathroom that's neither here nor there.

1253
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 2: That looks like every live show we've ever done where

1254
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 2: we're just like totally. I come out and I'm like, hey,

1255
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 2: can you pull these banks up? Help me pulls.

1256
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 1: I don't know how I'm going to zip this.

1257
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 2: Okay, So the wedding data set. It's September twenty first,

1258
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:53,440
Speaker 2: this wedding's going to be held at a discreete modestly sized,

1259
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 2: and importantly inexpensive community hall near Owsa, Michigan.

1260
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: The buffet tables, oh yeah, can just see them.

1261
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 2: Those fold out? Yeah, great long numbers and they put

1262
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 2: a nice paper tablecloth over the top. Oh my god,

1263
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 2: debian Moon continue buying drugs and collecting evidence. Only now

1264
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:12,440
Speaker 2: when they do it, they share the happy news with

1265
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 2: all of their drug friends and they start handing out

1266
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 2: wedding invitations to these people, aka the dozens of suspects

1267
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 2: that they're trying to and trap in this ring. Sure

1268
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,439
Speaker 2: not in trap, sorry, that they're trying to invite to participate.

1269
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 1: It's interesting in.

1270
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 2: This kind of means thing because also I was thinking

1271
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 2: about it where it's like, so they're there buying pot.

1272
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 2: It sounds like buying coke here and there maybe who knows,

1273
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:38,439
Speaker 2: and just kind of hanging out with people. And then

1274
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 2: these people they're like, hey, do you want to come

1275
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 2: and celebrate our love?

1276
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm so touched that you'd invite me,

1277
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 1: Like I didn't know we were that close, but like

1278
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 1: that really means a lot to me.

1279
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm just selling this pot because I'm trying

1280
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 2: to get by. And yeah, in forty years, HBO or

1281
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 2: Showtime is going to make a series about how it's

1282
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 2: cool if this mom is just selling some pot. But

1283
01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 2: for right now, we have lived in a society that

1284
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 2: leaves we should go to jail for fifty.

1285
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 1: Years because of it. Let me get you a wedding

1286
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 1: gift too. That's the most fucked up thing is they

1287
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: all arrive with a fucking blender. I mean, yes, I

1288
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 1: want my blenderback, is what I'd fucking say. They get

1289
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 1: thank you notes.

1290
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 2: I will see, because who knows the level of dirt

1291
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 2: bag that this wedding truly goes to. It would be

1292
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 2: kind of fun to be able to see. But spoiler alert,

1293
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 2: it has been optioned to be made into a movie

1294
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 2: because of course this is that kind of like, only

1295
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 2: in America in nineteen ninety could this thing happen.

1296
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: Amazing.

1297
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 2: So now it's the night of September twenty first, and

1298
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 2: guests begin to show up to the venue just before

1299
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 2: six pm. VIC is posted in one of the cars

1300
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 2: out in the parking lot, clocking each suspect as they enter.

1301
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 2: Outside the venue, guests are greeted by a big sign

1302
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 2: telling them to check their weapons before entering. So smart

1303
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 2: and most people comply, leaving their guns, knives, and I

1304
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 2: added brass knuckles in their cars. They go back to

1305
01:01:55,240 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 2: the car unload everything, hammer a sigh they have, like.

1306
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 1: But take your wedding gift and it's just a little

1307
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,320
Speaker 1: baggy of coke. Yeah, it's like not entrapman or planting

1308
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 1: it if you took it and put it in your pocket.

1309
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. They take their coke and they put

1310
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 2: it in a beautiful wedding car with Jordan Almonds. Yeah,

1311
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 2: God damn, Jordan Almonds used to bum me out as

1312
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 2: a kid.

1313
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 1: It's such a bummer.

1314
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 2: First of all, I was like, are we allowed to

1315
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 2: open this netting? Why are we digging into nettings?

1316
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 1: Disgusting?

1317
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 2: And that's just for a shitty old almond okay, not

1318
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 2: even salted, okay, not salted, not chocolated. Once the guests

1319
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 2: get inside, there's an open bar, there's music, and there's dancing,

1320
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 2: and they're having a raffle. Okay for about one hundred dollars,

1321
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 2: which would be how much in today's money six hundred,

1322
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty Sully nineteen ninety. You can enter

1323
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 2: to win a chance to win an entire brick of marijuana. Okay.

1324
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 1: A raffle at a wedding is like, fuck, yes, it's hilarious.

1325
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 1: I love it. And a brick of marijuana is not

1326
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 1: as cool.

1327
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 2: Which is stacked nearby.

1328
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 1: That's so funny.

1329
01:02:55,600 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 2: I would like to think is it cush if I Walkeddica.

1330
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 2: What are we talking that? If I walked in, I'd

1331
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 2: be like, open bar raffle for weed in a brick. Yeah,

1332
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 2: this feels wrong. Yeah, this is all too good.

1333
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah, but I do think we should start doing

1334
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 1: raffles at weddings. Hell yeah, are you listening, listener?

1335
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 2: Are you listening? Brides? You selfish brides and bite us

1336
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 2: and also raffle off? Like what would be good to

1337
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:21,720
Speaker 2: get at a wedding.

1338
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 1: One of the gifts. Pick a gift of the gifts

1339
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 1: on the table.

1340
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 2: You're like, oh my god, we got a new air fire.

1341
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 1: You can't open it. You pick a gift off the

1342
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:29,800
Speaker 1: fucking that's.

1343
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 2: A really good idea. Or like your raffle wins you.

1344
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 2: You get to do the money dance move aside, bride you.

1345
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 2: I didn't know about money dances until the Italian I

1346
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 2: think a lot of cultures do it. I think so too.

1347
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 1: It's fucking cool, not Irish Catholic.

1348
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 2: We just get raised in a chair, which is pretty

1349
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 2: fucking awesome forbid Irish Catholics. Tod be like, we don't

1350
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 2: need your money. Assuming these bricks weigh about a pound each,

1351
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 2: the weed in the raffle would be worth on the

1352
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 2: street today in twenty twenty six, how much money a brick?

1353
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 1: One hundred dollars for talking?

1354
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 2: You said, yes, so if you only paid one hundred

1355
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:06,960
Speaker 2: for this brick, and how much I don't know how

1356
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 2: much a brick's supposed to be? Yes, you do. We

1357
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,960
Speaker 2: all know you went to read them. Not for fucking weed,

1358
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 2: not for selling bricks of weed street worth one thousand dollars.

1359
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 1: Today in today's money entires money.

1360
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 2: That's a lot, right, good for one hundred, Yeah, one

1361
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 2: hundred for a thousand Take it and back to the

1362
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 2: entrapment point from earlier. Right, Because they are not placing

1363
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 2: these pot bricks into suspects hands directly, it's fine. They're

1364
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 2: simply creating an opportunity for the suspects to bid on

1365
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 2: them on their own volition. Therefore, it's not in.

1366
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 1: Trappen that is tricky, tricky, tricky. Whoever, whatever fucking police

1367
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 1: officer came up with that idea got a raise or whatever.

1368
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 2: I mean. I think so got a brick of weed.

1369
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 2: It got a brick of weed. But all of it

1370
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:54,840
Speaker 2: is a little bit like people really enjoying the school

1371
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 2: play energy too much. Yeah, because I'm like I would

1372
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 2: have been there, like, sorry, they don't have raffles or

1373
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 2: tables full of gifts, right that you're raffling at a wedding.

1374
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 2: Boys gone wild.

1375
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 1: It's a movie. It's a movie.

1376
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 2: It's a movie of too many boys. And there's Debbie

1377
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 2: running around. She can't fix everything, you like, that's not

1378
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 2: really realistic.

1379
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 1: It's Marca Robbie for sure. Right, it's like Margaret Robbie

1380
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 1: for like like Nancy what was her name, not Nancy

1381
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 1: Tanya Harding, Yes, Margo just like a little bit trashy, a.

1382
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:28,240
Speaker 2: Little trashy, a little bad perme because actually, well this

1383
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 2: is them from the day. So we have Debbie in

1384
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 2: her wedding dress that she that that actually Beth Moon's

1385
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 2: wife found for her at the Salvation Army.

1386
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, oh is so eighties but I know it's nineties.

1387
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 1: But is that him in the background? Is that Moon?

1388
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:48,160
Speaker 2: No, that's actually Vic in the background. Okay, yeah that's Vic.

1389
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,440
Speaker 1: Wow, she looks so happy.

1390
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 2: Because she loves tricking people.

1391
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:57,439
Speaker 1: So okay, yeah, that's Margaret Robbie with a fucking right.

1392
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 2: Yes, the wedding is convince to the saaspects that are

1393
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 2: slash guests that are there especially considering the room is

1394
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 2: crawling with law enforcement, who, unlike the unwitting guests, are

1395
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 2: carrying fire arms under their suit jackets and dresses.

1396
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 1: Yes they are.

1397
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 2: And there's at least one local reporter that Moon tipped

1398
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 2: off promising a big exciting drug bust, you know, because

1399
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 2: he wants us to go down. Right, So the wedding

1400
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 2: photographer is actually a photojournalist, amazing, right. Meanwhile, the wedding

1401
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:32,439
Speaker 2: cake is just cardboard covered with frosting. Okay, all right,

1402
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 2: it's a cost saving measure that the police have taken.

1403
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 2: But the frosting has been professionally decorated with little bees

1404
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 2: because it's the inside joke of this as a sting operation.

1405
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:45,880
Speaker 1: You guys.

1406
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 2: So they very much fun. They're having fun, go to work.

1407
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:52,600
Speaker 2: They really are, just like, that's funny. Let's ruin some

1408
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 2: lives and have a great time doing it. Yeah. The

1409
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 2: music provided for this wedding, the live wedding band is

1410
01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 2: a bunch of dudes, and the band is called SPOC

1411
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 2: and it's short for Somebody Protect Our Crops?

1412
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:08,560
Speaker 1: Is it a real band?

1413
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 2: But they are no, the crops being marijuana.

1414
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:11,919
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1415
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 2: All of the members of the band are wearing matching

1416
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 2: pot leaf t shirts.

1417
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 1: Oh but heavy handed.

1418
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 2: Very very corny corn. Yeah, they didn't care about the corn. Also,

1419
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 2: it's an inside joke because Spocks well backwards as Copps

1420
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:30,280
Speaker 2: and the band are cops from different departments in the

1421
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 2: area who.

1422
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 1: They finally get to play their instruments.

1423
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 2: And apparently they're fucking terrible. Everybody says, so good, Yes,

1424
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:40,920
Speaker 2: here's a picture of that band, So.

1425
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 1: I need that. That's got to be our merch.

1426
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:47,840
Speaker 2: I mean, but it's like, it's so sorry. But it's

1427
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 2: just like, hey, we're not cops. We love weed. And

1428
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 2: it says fucking cops on it, like no stone or

1429
01:07:57,160 --> 01:08:01,040
Speaker 2: would they go into the trouble to make fair? No? No,

1430
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:03,360
Speaker 2: And no band has ever made band shirts that they

1431
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:06,600
Speaker 2: then all wear. So Moon and Debbie invited about forty

1432
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:10,680
Speaker 2: people in their drug dealing and doing life. Only a

1433
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 2: dozen or so show up. To those dozen that.

1434
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:15,600
Speaker 1: Did, that's such a pothead thing you can't invite.

1435
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:18,600
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, it's just like, oh, it's all right, I

1436
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 2: meant to tell you today. The ones that are there, like, man,

1437
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:25,640
Speaker 2: this is great. Yeah, So everyone takes their seats. The

1438
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:30,519
Speaker 2: ceremony begins. Debbie is walked down the aisle by her father,

1439
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:34,360
Speaker 2: who is actually an undercover cop. She's wearing a dress

1440
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 2: as I said that Beth founded the Salvation Army for

1441
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 2: seventeen dollars. Nice how much in today's money? For forty five? Oh? Yes,

1442
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 2: nice one. You knew that because it was about triping. Sure,

1443
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:50,840
Speaker 2: I know how much is at the Also, Debbie's wearing

1444
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:53,400
Speaker 2: a garter on her thigh that holds a small gun.

1445
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:56,000
Speaker 1: If she cries, then she gets bonus points.

1446
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:59,160
Speaker 2: She's such a good actress. Ye, just the one single tear.

1447
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:02,880
Speaker 2: When they get to the altar, the minister who is

1448
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:04,599
Speaker 2: actually Flint's police sergeant.

1449
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 1: Come on, they'd recognize him.

1450
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:10,639
Speaker 2: He's also in costume, so fake vows are exchanged and

1451
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:14,240
Speaker 2: Debbian Moon say I do okay, And once they do that,

1452
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 2: the band kicks off, and with one undercover guest later

1453
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 2: describing their performance as quote absolutely horrible. Okay, It's like

1454
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 2: you can just feel the lack of rhythm.

1455
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:29,719
Speaker 1: Foka.

1456
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 2: They can only do PoCA. So the booze is flowing.

1457
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 2: Everyone's having a good time. Now the food is served,

1458
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:40,840
Speaker 2: and while everyone eats, undercover officers pretending to be friends

1459
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 2: and family of the bride and groom start to stand

1460
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 2: up and give fake speeches and toasts to the happy couple.

1461
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:50,599
Speaker 2: The wedding party even poses for photos. They did they

1462
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 2: do the whole thing now, yeah, they're already there, like,

1463
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:56,680
Speaker 2: just don't just do it, just get it over with.

1464
01:09:57,280 --> 01:10:00,519
Speaker 2: But no, they're in the school play and slash right

1465
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:03,400
Speaker 2: their first time improvising, and they're having fun with it.

1466
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1467
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:06,720
Speaker 2: So now it's around nine o'clock. The began begins to

1468
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 2: play the song I Fought the Law and the law

1469
01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:12,559
Speaker 2: one right, so heavy handed, that's the cue.

1470
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 1: It's so nucky way. Yes.

1471
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:17,400
Speaker 2: A guy jumps on stage like he's about to give

1472
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:20,360
Speaker 2: a toast, but instead he says, let's have some fun,

1473
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:24,000
Speaker 2: and then he asks that all the undercover officers stand

1474
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:27,439
Speaker 2: and make themselves known, and the other guests start getting

1475
01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:28,639
Speaker 2: placed under arrest.

1476
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:29,719
Speaker 1: WHOA.

1477
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 2: At first, there's disbelief among the guests. One person starts

1478
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 2: laughing as he's getting handcuffed, with an officer insisting that quote,

1479
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:41,639
Speaker 2: we were not kidding, we have a warrant for your arrest.

1480
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 2: End quote. In all, fifteen people are taken into custody

1481
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 2: that day, and dozens of others that Moon, DeBie and

1482
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:51,680
Speaker 2: Vick have been investigating, will be arrested elsewhere in the

1483
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:53,439
Speaker 2: coming days. So it's all part of the same state.

1484
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:55,839
Speaker 1: Didn't have to do the fucking wedding in the first.

1485
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:58,960
Speaker 2: Wedding, clearly was you guys blowing off some scheme, right.

1486
01:10:59,880 --> 01:11:03,560
Speaker 2: You can imagine Once news of this sting hits the papers,

1487
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:08,200
Speaker 2: it's viral. Nineties version of viral stories run with flourish,

1488
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:12,280
Speaker 2: Like there's an Associated Press article with the subhead that reads, quote,

1489
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:16,320
Speaker 2: here came the bride, all decked in white and a snubnose.

1490
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:20,200
Speaker 1: Where's the editor? Can I talk to the editor?

1491
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:22,080
Speaker 2: Please? And a snubnose revolt.

1492
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:23,479
Speaker 1: Now, let we're gonna shorten that up.

1493
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:28,840
Speaker 2: The rhythm's off. There's no internal anything. Okay. So Moon,

1494
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 2: for his part, becomes the subject of a Detroit Free

1495
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:35,720
Speaker 2: Press profile the next year, in nineteen ninety and one,

1496
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:39,879
Speaker 2: when he finally retires, the reporter writes, quote, his spirit

1497
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:43,200
Speaker 2: and his health exhausted by two decades of undercover work,

1498
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:45,839
Speaker 2: A legendary narc heads for the hills.

1499
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:46,639
Speaker 1: No, what's better.

1500
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:48,320
Speaker 2: That's way better. End quote.

1501
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:50,120
Speaker 1: It is a different crime. It could be here comes

1502
01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:52,519
Speaker 1: the bribe, but it's not. It's not that.

1503
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:56,720
Speaker 2: Though it's here comes the raffle. That's right, what's upon anybody?

1504
01:11:57,160 --> 01:12:00,040
Speaker 2: No big deal. It's like it your cousin's wedding and

1505
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 2: they raffled off the weed. You remember, the fucking weirdest Okay, okay.

1506
01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:07,840
Speaker 2: Part of this to me feels a lot like when

1507
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:10,759
Speaker 2: I was in college and I was a theater major.

1508
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:13,320
Speaker 2: So being a theater major, it was all about like

1509
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:15,439
Speaker 2: hanging out in the theater department and like, do you

1510
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:17,479
Speaker 2: need me to do anything? And what's up here?

1511
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:18,759
Speaker 1: And creative?

1512
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:21,559
Speaker 2: Yes, you just wanted to be You wanted to be

1513
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 2: identified as amongst these people. That's what I wanted. When

1514
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:27,920
Speaker 2: you're new an improv that like UCB right, yeah, and

1515
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:29,400
Speaker 2: you're like, I guess I got to sit in a

1516
01:12:29,439 --> 01:12:33,760
Speaker 2: cafe and write out my suggestions or whatever, nurse. But

1517
01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:36,599
Speaker 2: it seems to me that the energy with which they

1518
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:39,320
Speaker 2: went into that it was because they liked hanging out

1519
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:41,439
Speaker 2: and doing it. They liked working on it. I think

1520
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:43,400
Speaker 2: that is going to prove out to be true later.

1521
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:46,280
Speaker 2: But please hold while I read you this part instead.

1522
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:50,559
Speaker 2: And I told you this in twenty fifteen, Jeff Mash's

1523
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:54,720
Speaker 2: article from the Atlantic gets optioned for film rights.

1524
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:58,040
Speaker 1: Going to the Chapelong. You're going to get arrested there

1525
01:12:58,080 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 1: it is.

1526
01:12:59,080 --> 01:13:02,000
Speaker 2: I want to stop thinking about it. Just keep on pitching.

1527
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:05,040
Speaker 2: When they come to you, you say them, it's been

1528
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:08,080
Speaker 2: stuck in turnaround. But that idea, Like the second the

1529
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 2: article came out, they're like, we got to make a

1530
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:14,519
Speaker 2: movie this Vince Vaughn. Whether this sting was successful by

1531
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:18,040
Speaker 2: any measure, though, is tough to save because seen people. Yeah, yeah,

1532
01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:20,479
Speaker 2: fifteen people who were basically pot smokers.

1533
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:22,840
Speaker 1: There was not nice ones, it seems, because they came

1534
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:23,680
Speaker 1: to a wedding.

1535
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:26,479
Speaker 2: I know, the nice carrying ones that were like friendships matter.

1536
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 2: At the time, Flint doesn't have digitized court records. They

1537
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 2: are on the paper system.

1538
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:32,280
Speaker 1: Still.

1539
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:36,439
Speaker 2: It's nineteen ninety. The week that many of the cases

1540
01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:38,840
Speaker 2: from the arrests from this sting go to court, a

1541
01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:43,800
Speaker 2: tornado hits the area and the important documents are scattered

1542
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 2: to the wind. That's God, that's right.

1543
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:50,200
Speaker 1: Fuck Nancy Reagan. Yeah, fuck you, fuck you, thuck you you're cool.

1544
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:53,840
Speaker 2: Same god that got Moon out of his initial thing

1545
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:57,000
Speaker 2: right and got his thing made to a misdemeanor, That

1546
01:13:57,120 --> 01:13:59,479
Speaker 2: same God was here just like enough of this. You

1547
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:02,280
Speaker 2: had your Yeah, you should have made a real kick.

1548
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:06,160
Speaker 2: Decades later, Jeff Mash attempts to sess out the number

1549
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:09,320
Speaker 2: of convictions and details on what happened to those involved.

1550
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:13,360
Speaker 2: But it's so murky because they don't have that actual paperwork.

1551
01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:15,920
Speaker 1: They should throw at funeral and have everyone who showed

1552
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:16,280
Speaker 1: up at that.

1553
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:20,240
Speaker 2: I mean, well, what's clear from the day reporting is

1554
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:23,040
Speaker 2: that around thirty people are handed drug charges in connection

1555
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:26,559
Speaker 2: with this investigation and this sting. It seems like very

1556
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:31,639
Speaker 2: few suspects were given long or harsh sentences. Most probably

1557
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:34,640
Speaker 2: resolved them through plea deals and basically got to go

1558
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:37,960
Speaker 2: back to their regular lives. Vick will later say that

1559
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:43,200
Speaker 2: some of the people they arrested took it all in stride, claiming, quote,

1560
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:45,759
Speaker 2: there were no bad feelings. Everyone thought it was funny.

1561
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 1: You got me.

1562
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:49,960
Speaker 2: And it's such a cop attitude of like they loved it.

1563
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 2: Here's a guy getting arrested, and you can tell. You

1564
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:55,320
Speaker 2: can look at his face and see, Okay, it doesn't

1565
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:56,519
Speaker 2: seem like he thinks it's.

1566
01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:58,200
Speaker 1: All that wall. He looks shell shocked.

1567
01:14:58,600 --> 01:14:59,519
Speaker 2: That's de Wian Moon.

1568
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 1: Why because he wore a fucking acid What are those

1569
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 1: genes called?

1570
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:02,599
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1571
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:05,599
Speaker 2: Acid washed a wedding acid wash jeans and a Freddy

1572
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:06,320
Speaker 2: Kruger sweater.

1573
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:08,080
Speaker 1: Well, and look at her, the bride with the gun

1574
01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:08,759
Speaker 1: in her hand.

1575
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:11,120
Speaker 2: That is a She pulled that right out of her

1576
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:14,880
Speaker 2: thigh garter yam and said, how dare you smoke?

1577
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:16,920
Speaker 1: Pot? And he's got a joint in his mouth.

1578
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:17,519
Speaker 2: He's good.

1579
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:18,800
Speaker 1: Moon's got to join in this mail.

1580
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:22,439
Speaker 2: Moon's already lit up. That guy totally looks like he's like, Oh,

1581
01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:23,960
Speaker 2: that's what I get for it trying to be nice

1582
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 2: of people. I basically wrote here, I'd love to hear

1583
01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:28,599
Speaker 2: a twenty twenty six interview with the arrestees to see

1584
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:31,599
Speaker 2: how true that statement is. That's the podcast we need

1585
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:31,880
Speaker 2: to hear.

1586
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 1: If anyone listening's dad or mom was in that sting,

1587
01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:38,320
Speaker 1: please email us immediately. Put it in the subject line

1588
01:15:38,439 --> 01:15:40,439
Speaker 1: my favorite murder at Gmail. Read it on a hometown.

1589
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:43,320
Speaker 2: It's going to get like a five alarm fire, straight

1590
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:45,840
Speaker 2: to the microphone if we If you want to tell

1591
01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:49,200
Speaker 2: us your side of the story. Atlantic writer Jeff Mash notes,

1592
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:52,760
Speaker 2: though that more importantly quote, for all the drama and

1593
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:56,839
Speaker 2: creativity involved, the operation ultimately didn't do much to improve

1594
01:15:56,920 --> 01:15:59,839
Speaker 2: the grim outlook of the city and its surrounding areas

1595
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:03,800
Speaker 2: end quote. So obviously, the idea that we're going to

1596
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:05,920
Speaker 2: clean up the streets, this all just kind of turned

1597
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:08,559
Speaker 2: it into fun times and cookiness, and it's like, and

1598
01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:10,439
Speaker 2: you just arrested a bunch of people that were able

1599
01:16:10,479 --> 01:16:13,720
Speaker 2: to plee out. Afterwards, In the years that follow and

1600
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:16,120
Speaker 2: in spite of the War on drugs policing culture looming

1601
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 2: larger and larger, the scourge of drugs continues as the

1602
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:22,840
Speaker 2: broader region of this part of Michigan is left to

1603
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:27,479
Speaker 2: grapple with severe economic hardship. So basically all of this

1604
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:30,360
Speaker 2: is for naught. For his part in the sting, Moon

1605
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:33,400
Speaker 2: gets a five thousand dollars bonus, which would be worth

1606
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:34,519
Speaker 2: about how much.

1607
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:36,160
Speaker 1: In today's money, eight hundred and thirty.

1608
01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 2: It's a five thousand dollars bonus.

1609
01:16:42,439 --> 01:16:45,599
Speaker 1: Not one hundred eight three hundred.

1610
01:16:46,120 --> 01:16:53,799
Speaker 2: Closer, it's twelve thousand, eight hundred with an hour. Anyway,

1611
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:58,759
Speaker 2: this bonus enables Moon to retire, get his get his family.

1612
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:02,360
Speaker 2: You're right, yeah, retire, get his family together, and move

1613
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 2: back to North Carolina like he planned. In two thousand

1614
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:08,920
Speaker 2: and six, Lacey Moon Brown passes away at just sixty

1615
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:12,960
Speaker 2: three years old, with his obituary reading quote the moon

1616
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:18,679
Speaker 2: shines no more in North Carolina. That's dramatic. His cause

1617
01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:20,799
Speaker 2: of death is unclear, but he was a heavy smoker,

1618
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:24,840
Speaker 2: and who knows. There is one sweet, weird side note

1619
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:27,479
Speaker 2: that I was talking about before, which is that during

1620
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 2: the fake wedding, when Sergeant Vick wasah Solition watches Officer

1621
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 2: Debbie Williams coming diant the Ale in her dress, in

1622
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:39,439
Speaker 2: her Salvation Army dress. He realizes that night he has

1623
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:42,920
Speaker 2: feelings for her, and he says quote, I couldn't let

1624
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:47,320
Speaker 2: her go. They end up falling in love and eventually marrying,

1625
01:17:47,680 --> 01:17:50,240
Speaker 2: and as best as Maren can tell from her research,

1626
01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 2: they're still together to this day. So my thing is,

1627
01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:56,519
Speaker 2: I think that this idea where it was like it

1628
01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:59,800
Speaker 2: was for Moon to get one last kind of like

1629
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:02,920
Speaker 2: ray for you in the papers and then all the

1630
01:18:03,080 --> 01:18:05,840
Speaker 2: other stuff was like when you like hanging out with people,

1631
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:08,120
Speaker 2: so you're like, yeah, we better get together and figure

1632
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:11,240
Speaker 2: out that raffle tomorrow. Oh right, Like it has that

1633
01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:11,920
Speaker 2: feeling I.

1634
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:13,680
Speaker 1: Wanted it to go on as long as possible kind

1635
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:14,080
Speaker 1: of a thing.

1636
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 2: But they have a fucking cop band plane, Like you

1637
01:18:17,120 --> 01:18:19,560
Speaker 2: can't just have a DJ like normal weddings.

1638
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:20,599
Speaker 1: That's so romanz.

1639
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:24,160
Speaker 2: They had cops fucking I fought the law rehearsal.

1640
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:27,840
Speaker 1: When did you know you were in love with mom?

1641
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:31,000
Speaker 2: Well, well, when she pulled out that little pistol from

1642
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:35,760
Speaker 2: her thigh garter and fucking up against the wall. And

1643
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:37,679
Speaker 2: that's the story of the nineteen ninety wedding sting.

1644
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:38,639
Speaker 1: That was fun.

1645
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:41,599
Speaker 2: Hey, we're not opposed to having fun on this podcast.

1646
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:43,360
Speaker 2: If you have any ideas of how we could have

1647
01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:46,639
Speaker 2: more fun, please write it in my favorite murder at

1648
01:18:46,680 --> 01:18:47,679
Speaker 2: gmail dot com.

1649
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:49,840
Speaker 1: Or just comment on the Instagram. That's the only way

1650
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 1: I'll ever see like comments is if it's on Instagram

1651
01:18:52,439 --> 01:18:53,200
Speaker 1: and the fan cult.

1652
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:56,160
Speaker 2: Yes, we can't go looking for it anymore. People. We've

1653
01:18:56,160 --> 01:18:57,040
Speaker 2: been through so much.

1654
01:18:57,080 --> 01:18:58,920
Speaker 1: My brain is like, you know, I have like my

1655
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:01,080
Speaker 1: eyeballs like a cart and are filling up.

1656
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:03,479
Speaker 2: With I just have those ones from like twenty seventeen

1657
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:05,400
Speaker 2: that I looked at one time and it's burned into

1658
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:08,519
Speaker 2: my memory forever. The comments yeah never never, why is

1659
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:12,679
Speaker 2: it them? We don't know, we don't know. Sorry about

1660
01:19:12,680 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 2: your freezing. You like it?

1661
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:16,000
Speaker 1: Go to get another free thing?

1662
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:17,519
Speaker 2: You You're a free thing.

1663
01:19:17,800 --> 01:19:18,880
Speaker 1: Do you know how many free things.

1664
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:21,560
Speaker 2: There are free to like old Pine Elsewhere there's a

1665
01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:23,720
Speaker 2: post to be political. If you don't fucking know that,

1666
01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:26,639
Speaker 2: stay sexy, I don't get murdered.

1667
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:29,799
Speaker 1: Goodbye, Elvis, Do you want a cookie?

1668
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 2: This has been an exactly right production.

1669
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:41,760
Speaker 1: Our managing producer is Molly Smith.

1670
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:43,600
Speaker 2: Our consulting producer is Kate Shellenbach.

1671
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:45,840
Speaker 1: Our creative lead is Alison Agosti.

1672
01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:48,439
Speaker 2: Our associate producer is Tessa Hughes, and our editor is

1673
01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:49,760
Speaker 2: Aristotle Acevedo.

1674
01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:52,200
Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by Leona Squalacci.

1675
01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:54,840
Speaker 2: Our researchers are Marion McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

1676
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:57,679
Speaker 1: Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot

1677
01:19:57,720 --> 01:20:00,759
Speaker 1: com and follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.

1678
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:03,439
Speaker 2: Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

1679
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:06,479
Speaker 2: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, or watch new

1680
01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:09,719
Speaker 2: episodes every week on Netflix. Search for My Favorite Murder,

1681
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:11,960
Speaker 2: add us to your list and hit the double thumbs

1682
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:12,479
Speaker 2: up button.

1683
01:20:14,360 --> 01:20:18,920
Speaker 1: Goodbye