1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey you, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, 3 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: a good old fashioned episode of Stuff you Should Know. 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: That's right. But before you get going, we want to 6 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: make a plea to cough up just a little bit 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: of dough for our friends at co ED. If you 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: don't know our friends at Cooperative for Education who break 9 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: the cycle of poverty in Guatemala through education. We're trying 10 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: to get to a million bucks donated by the Stuff 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: you Should Know family notary. This is the family sure, 12 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: and we're getting close. So where can they go to 13 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: do that? They can go to Cooperative for Education dot 14 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: org slash s y s K and every little bit helps. 15 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: Large donation, small donation doesn't matter because they're all going 16 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: to be pulled together and get us to one million 17 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: dollars donated from Stuff you Should Know listeners, which would 18 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: be great. And you got a little piece of housekeeping, right. Yes, 19 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: I wanted to thank a guy named Daniel Murgatroyd who 20 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: is a rather talented painter who a while back noticed 21 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: a picture of um Momo that I posted on Instagram, 22 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: and he offered to paint it, and he sent me 23 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: a straight up amazing oil painting that looks just like 24 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: the photograph. So we have a wonderful oil painting of MO. 25 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: And I just wanted to thank him for that and 26 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: tell everybody to go check him out on Instagram. Daniel 27 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 1: Murgatroyd art m u r g a t r o 28 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: y d art. Uh. He's really really good. So and 29 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: I think he might be accepting commissions by the one. 30 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: I'm gonna check that out. No Marvin Martian jokes, I 31 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: promise no. I always think of jam on it um. 32 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: I think that's one of the little Gremlin's sisters. His 33 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: named Murgatroyd. I always think of Marvin Martian. Have inster 34 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: margat Troyd. Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot about him. 35 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: I was never a big fan of his. He was creepy. 36 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: I liked him. Okay, we also need to shout out 37 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: Worldwide Words. If you've never been on Worldwide Words website, 38 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: it's amazing. The guy Michael Quinlan who ran the site 39 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: is he just really did some amazing work of digging 40 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: up word origins and etymology and all that and then 41 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: Graham Arst. There is another really good site that we 42 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: drew from, among many others, but those two were the 43 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 1: ones who deserve the biggest shout outs. Yeah, we've done 44 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: something like this before, and I think every couple of 45 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: years will probably throw out another word in phrase origin 46 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: episode because it's always fun to look at this stuff. 47 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: I'm an enthusiast of phrase origins. We're gonna kick it 48 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: off with the old on the wagon phrase. You were 49 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: on the wagon that means you're not drinking, you are sober. 50 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: I can't have that drink, man, I'm on the wagon 51 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: right right. And this one's awesome because we actually know 52 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: pretty much with a of percent certainty where it came from. UM. 53 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: But first, before we get to that, let's talk about 54 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: a couple of competing theories. One of them is from 55 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: our friends across the pond in the UK who apparently, UM, 56 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: back in the day, if you were being taken to jail, 57 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: or you were being taken to the gallows, you would 58 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: be taken by wagon or cart and the very gracious 59 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: constable or jailer would stop at a pub and let 60 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: you have one last drink. And then after you had 61 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: that drink, you would get back on the wagon never 62 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: to drink again. That's right, because you're about to go 63 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: get your head chopped off, right, So I don't even 64 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: know if that happened, but whether it did or not, 65 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: it it's not the origin of on the wagon, Sorry, 66 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: britt friends. It's a good one though, and it's funny. 67 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: Anytime you do research on phrase origins, there are always 68 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: a lot of competing theories and a lot of them 69 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: sound really fun and you will probably repeat some of them, 70 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: but a lot of them aren't true. No, but these 71 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: are vetted. Man. We we really worked hard to make 72 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: sure that this one really really is accurate. Alright, So 73 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: moving on a little closer, but not quite there. This 74 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: sort of dances around the true origin. But this one 75 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: takes us to America. We don't have to go across 76 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: any pond because we're here already. And the Temperance Movement 77 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: is what we're speaking of. Where uh, if you listen 78 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: to our episode on What's it call it? When they 79 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: get rid of all the booze prohibition prohibition it was 80 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: led by the Temperance movement, which was a movement of 81 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: uptight people who said you shouldn't drink no one should drink, 82 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: and we're gonna make uh it really hard for you 83 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: to drink. So the Temperance Movement was really happening, and 84 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: they would go through towns at times preaching abstinence and 85 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: literally like parading through town, and they would almost like 86 00:04:55,440 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: a church invitation, would call people, uh, to take a pledge, 87 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: like come up and take the pledge and say you're 88 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: not going to drink this devil's juice anymore, and sign 89 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: this thing swearing that you're never gonna take a drink again. 90 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: And here after you signed it, why don't you just 91 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: jump on this wagon. We're riding around on through town 92 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: and you can beckon others to do the same. And 93 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 1: that is where the origin of on the wagon came from. 94 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,119 Speaker 1: Always such a good actor. Uh, not quite. It's good 95 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: and it's close again, it dances near it, but that's 96 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: not quite right, right right? Uh. It turns out it 97 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: did have to do with the Temperance Movement and their 98 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: pledge and people taking the pledge, but it wasn't a 99 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: parade wagon that was being referenced. It was what was 100 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: called a water wagon or a water cart. And back 101 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: in the day around the time of the Last Turn 102 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: of the century. There are lots of towns out there 103 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 1: that had just nothing but a dusty dirt street. There 104 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: was no pavement, no oyster shells, no cobblestones, something like that. 105 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: And on dry days that dirt could turn to dust 106 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: and blow in your face. So the water cart would 107 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: be a cart of non potable water, non drinkable water 108 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: that a horse would draw that would just kind of 109 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: spray the road down to keep it from being dusty. Yeah, 110 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: that's what they call in the film business, a wet down. Sure, 111 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: they usually doing on asphalt streets to make it look 112 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: cooler at night, right, So, I don't know if they 113 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 1: did it for that, But this was more This was 114 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: more practical. But the point was the water in the 115 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: water cart you did not want to drink. So when 116 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: somebody who signed the pledge said something like I'd rather 117 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: drink from the water wagon or the water cart rather 118 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: than take a strong drink. Again, that is the origin 119 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: of I'm on the wagon. That's what they were saying, 120 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: is I would rather drink this nasty water than drink 121 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: a glass of whiskey. Again. Yeah, that's a good one. 122 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: I thought so too. And then water wagon became just 123 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: the wagon, And apparently by four there was an article 124 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: in the Davenport Daily Leader that said a man fell 125 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 1: off the water wagon, and they felt obligated to say 126 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: this was a real water wagon, not the figurative one. 127 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 1: So it was at least right in widespread use by 128 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: I like that. I do too. That was a good one. 129 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: All right, Uh, this one, I guess we're just gonna 130 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: have to get into this because this one bothers me. 131 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: That is exception that proves the rule, because I fully 132 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: understand what this means and I get it, and I 133 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: didn't know anyone had any problem with the phrase the 134 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: exception that proves the rule? Oh really, so like the 135 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: the original and proper use of it, that's what you 136 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: that's the only one you're aware of. I mean, I 137 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: just I know, I feel like I know what it means, 138 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: and that I don't understand the confusion of what it means. Well, 139 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: let's explain what some people are confused by. So a 140 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: lot of people out there think that the phrase the 141 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: exception that proves the rule is talking about like an outlier, 142 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: an exception that by its very existence it shows that 143 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: the rule that it's breaking is generally true. But that's it' 144 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: that's not it though. That's not correct, and it's actually 145 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: kind of nonsensical if you dig into it. I don't 146 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: think so. I think that's how modern people use it. 147 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: I think this is a case of changing language. Yes, 148 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: and I think it's very easily understood. Like if I 149 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: say I hate all mushrooms, but I like portobellos only, 150 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: then that is an exception that that generally proves the 151 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: rule that I hate all other mushrooms. Okay, but let 152 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: me under let me explain why it's actually nonsensical. Like, yes, 153 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, So so so many people use it like 154 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: that that it has come to mean that as well. 155 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: But we're talking about like the original version, which is 156 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: still holds the same meaning to It's still a useful 157 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: way of using it. It's not like archaic or anequated, right, 158 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is, don't get your hopes up 159 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: that you're convince me that it's nonsensical. Okay, that's not 160 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: perfect sense. Let me explain why you're wrong. So, um, 161 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: there's a there's an adage that you only have to 162 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: find one white crow to disprove that all crows are black. 163 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: But does that mean that that one white crow also 164 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: proves that crows in general are black. I would say no, 165 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: because how many white crows are out there? Right, it 166 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything. It just means the one thing that crows. 167 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: Not all crows are black. It doesn't. It doesn't show 168 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: also that crows are generally black. That's why it's generally 169 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: considered nonsensical. Yeah, I'll buy it. There's a second way 170 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: to do it too. Um that that says, Um, that 171 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: really emphasizes the proves part. The exception proves the rule. 172 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: But they don't mean prove isn't like I proved it. 173 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: It's it's uh, it's inarguable. They meet it in the 174 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: scientific term of of test the validity of Yeah, that 175 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: makes sense, but that's not what it was originally intended 176 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: to mean either though, Right. No. And another good example is, um, 177 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: let's say you have a rule that says you shouldn't 178 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: put pants on horses, and an exception to that rule 179 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: might test the validity the viability of that rule. So 180 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: there's one guy who puts pants on a horse. Yeah, 181 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: that guy, the horse trips breaks a leg, and that 182 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: horse has just shown that that rule is pretty valid. 183 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: That you shouldn't put pants on a horse, because that 184 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: rule protects horses makes sense way more sensical than the 185 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,199 Speaker 1: one that that you subscribe to. But finally we reach Chuck, 186 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: the the original version, the original meaning of the exception 187 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: that proves the rule, and I think it's beautiful in 188 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: its elegance. Well it is, and and I guess this 189 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: is how I used it with the mushrooms, and this 190 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: is how I always took it to mean, which was 191 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: the use of the phrase is basically that the presence 192 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: of an exception proves that a rule exists. Okay, okay, yeah, 193 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: I could see how you. There's an interpretation of your 194 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 1: mushroom statement that that that follows mushrooms. I hate them, 195 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 1: but I like Portobella's. That basically proves that I hate 196 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: all other mushrooms if I only like one. Yeah, okay, 197 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: so yeah, I think it's the phrasing of it that's 198 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: throwing me off, because typically when you're using the exception 199 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: that proves the rule correctly, um. An example of it 200 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: is UM free parking on Sundays like this one. This 201 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: made my brain hurt. Okay, but listen, that's an exception 202 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: that suggests that, uh, there's a rule that all the 203 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 1: other days of the week you have to pay to park. 204 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:44,599 Speaker 1: There's an exception that's posted that proves that a rule exists. Okay, 205 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: no shirt, no shoes, no service. The fact that a 206 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: store would feel obligated to post that sign suggests that 207 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: elsewhere you can wear go without shoes or a shirt. See. 208 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if I buy that. That to me 209 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that. That to me means that at some 210 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: point someone came in there without a shirt and people complained, 211 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,079 Speaker 1: so they said, well, we gotta have a rule now, right, 212 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: But that anything about other restaurants, I disagree. So, um, 213 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: that's but that's how that's how you're supposed to use. 214 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 1: And the reason why this is the original version is 215 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: because it's actually it actually comes from medieval law. Yeah 216 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: it was. I believe there was a Latin phrase. I 217 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: love reading Latin acceptio probat regulum and cassibus non accept us. 218 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: The exception confirms the rule, and the cases not expected 219 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: accepted accepted. What I say expected. I got a question 220 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 1: for you. Let's go back to no shirt, no shoes, 221 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: no dice. Alright, So you're saying, if you walk into 222 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: a restaurant and says no shirt, no shoes, no service. 223 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: You would say, hey, I didn't see a sign at 224 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: uh that so that must mean you can go in 225 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: there without a shirt on. Uh. If I stopped and 226 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: thought about it, yes, that logically makes sense, But I 227 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: don't think. I think you don't have to fixate on 228 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: other restaurants. It can just mean that other places in 229 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: public you could be without a shirt and a shoe 230 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: and you're not going to be arrested for it or 231 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: something like that. Okay, so like you got your shirt 232 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: tied around your waist your roller blade, and you stop 233 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: to go in to get some food. You take off 234 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: your roller blades and you're now barefoot, but you gotta 235 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: put on that shirt and fish the flip flops out 236 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 1: of your back. Back excuse me, I My The point 237 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: was that this was supposed to be more understandable. I 238 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: think we made it at least ten times less understandable. 239 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 1: All right, that's perfect. I think that means we should 240 00:13:47,080 --> 00:14:11,119 Speaker 1: take a break. Alright, let's take a break, kids, sk' 241 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: all right? That was fun. I think from here on 242 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: out it's gonna be pretty pretty easy going. I think 243 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: it's smooth sailing ahead because we move on to one 244 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: of my favorite things that I said as a kid 245 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: that you don't say as much as an adult. I 246 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: don't feel like. But as a kid, when you smell 247 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: something that's a nasty a lot of times you'll go P. 248 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: You you don't say that as an adult. Home No, 249 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: I say who farted? But I don't need to ask 250 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: because my daughter already had announced it. That's as PU 251 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: as in the letters PU. But they don't even mean anything. 252 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: They don't stand for anything, right, yeah, which is pretty interesting. Um. 253 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: And if you think about PU, it's it's totally unnecessary. 254 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: You can just say that smells awful, but by adding PU, 255 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: it just puts a whole luster on it and really 256 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: says that smells really bad. Um. So they don't stand 257 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: for anything but P. And you in that order have 258 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: a long standing association with something offensive or disgusting. Um. 259 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: And it goes all the way back to Latin. Actually 260 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: before Latin. There's a Latin word called puteo which means 261 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: I stink, which is probably not said that that frequently 262 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: back then. And then um there's an even more ancient 263 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: word and from proto Indo European Um language, which is 264 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: really really old p U h P. That meant rotten 265 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: or foul, so that word has been around a really 266 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: long time. Um, but again, PU doesn't stand for anything. 267 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: It's just a total coincidence that those two letters put 268 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: together in the English language make the same sound that 269 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: humans typically make when we encounter something gross and nasty. Yeah, like, 270 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: you know, you think of the word putred has PU, 271 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: But it's all just coincidence. People say pew you know, 272 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: spell it however you want, p y o O or 273 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: p e W. I guess even you can throw an 274 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: h in there. pH e w and PW just came PU. 275 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: And I think this is a great thing to keep 276 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: in your hip pocket. Like, I think it's genuinely interesting 277 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: that PU is just a coincidence with the Latin and 278 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: the proto Indo European such that you could even drop 279 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: some wolf bait at a dinner party and very quickly 280 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: like get out of the embarrassment by saying, well, here's 281 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: an opportunity, actually, did you know? And then all of 282 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: a sudden everyone's like, I don't even remember that you farted, right, 283 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: what's awesome to PU has only been in use since 284 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: like the nineteen fifties. Yeah, and it's in the O. E. 285 00:16:56,080 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: D Rights in the Oxford English Dictionary spell pew and 286 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: that's where p you generally just thought to sort of 287 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: come from. That's right, Pugh. I like that one too, Chuck. 288 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna bring it back. Let's start, Okay, I think 289 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: we should because it is really great. Uh so too 290 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 1: is the next phrase, Chuck, burry the hatchet. Burry the hatchet? 291 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:25,479 Speaker 1: Now what does that mean? Uh? This is a really 292 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: good one. This is something that you say if like, 293 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: let's say you and I are having a big fight 294 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: and that eventually we're having a fight over what the 295 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: exception that proves the rule? We're at logger heads, we say, 296 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: oh god, we gotta take a commercial break, which is 297 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: when we do our best fighting. And then in that 298 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: commercial break, I might listen. Man. No, actually you say 299 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: it because you're the peacemaker. You say, let's just bury 300 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: the hatchet here. This is a dumb thing to fight over, 301 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: And I say fine, and then that's it. We move on. 302 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: Everything's good from that point on because the hatchet has 303 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: been buried. Yes, this him. It's a symbol of getting 304 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: over an argument. Letting bygones be bygones. Right, Um, what's 305 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: interesting is that it actually started out with a really 306 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: literal meaning to the phrase bury the hatchet. Uh. And 307 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: the whole thing comes from the Iroquois language family, better 308 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: known by their own term the hawt in O'shawnee, which 309 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: means people of the long house. Iroquois was the French 310 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: name for for this group of people that included a 311 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: number of tribes up in the northeast, the Cayuga, Cherokee, Huron, Seneca, Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, 312 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 1: and Tuscarora, and their whole jams stretched from Lake Ontario 313 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 1: over to Pennsylvania and New York and all the way 314 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: up to Ontario and Quebec, which means that they were 315 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: rubbing elbows with the French, British and the Dutch after 316 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: the Europeans started to come over, which also means that 317 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: ideas were able to spread among this group, which is 318 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: why we're talking about bury the hatchet today. That's uh. 319 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 1: And if you and I think this is a very 320 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: great story, according to Iroquois legend um, there was a 321 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: treaty for it by some members of this Iroquois family, 322 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: and they actually got it wrong. For many years. They 323 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: placed it at fourteen fifty one, but researchers at the 324 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: University of Toledo go rockets, rockets almost said, mud, hen's 325 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: not right, that's the team. Yeah. Uh. They got together 326 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: and used oral history and astronomy data and all sorts 327 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: of great documentary resources and said, actually, hey, we know 328 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: what it is. It was August thirty one, eleven forty two, 329 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: so much earlier than it was believed. But in this treaty, 330 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: it's very cool what happened. They got the five original signatories, 331 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: which were the Cayuga, the Oneida, the Mohawk, the Seneca, 332 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: and the Onondaga, and they formed what was known as 333 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 1: the a josh Confederates hot in O'shawnee hot in Oshawni Confederacy. 334 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: The French called it the Iroquois Confederacy, but it was 335 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: it was an early model of democracy in action. Yeah. 336 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 1: And if those University of Toledo scholars are right, and 337 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: the whole thing was established in eleven forty two, that 338 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: makes it one of the oldest continuously functioning democracies in 339 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: the world. It's up there with the Government of Iceland, 340 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: the Swiss Cantons, and I said, continuously operating. It's still 341 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: functions as a government entity in Upstate New York and 342 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: issues passports. So it's been going since possibly eleven forty two. 343 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: And the whole reason we're talking about this is because 344 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: at that meeting in eleven forty two of those five 345 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: nations that came together to form a treaty to to 346 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: the leaders of this um, this treaty UH meeting, I 347 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: guess uh dagana Widah who is a Huron, and Hiawatha 348 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: who is either a mohawk er and onondaga Um. They said, hey, everybody, 349 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: just to kind of keep everything peaceful and on the level, 350 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: let's all bury our weapons under this white pine tree 351 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 1: and just leave them there during this meeting and we 352 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 1: can dig them up afterward. But they couldn't dig them 353 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: up chuck, could they. Now they thought this is a 354 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: nice symbol, and it also has the side benefit that 355 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: no one's gonna get murdered probably, And a river, an 356 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 1: underground river, came and washed them away. And so they 357 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: all said, hey, this is like kismet. I don't even 358 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: know what that word means, but this was meant to be. 359 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: We buried, literally buried our weapons and they were washed 360 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: away underground. So this is a charmed treaty and a 361 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: charmed joining of nations. So that whole practice spread pretty 362 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: quickly among the Iroquois language family tribes. UM. Where Like 363 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: if you were having like a peace treaty meeting like 364 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: the two, the two groups would bury their their weapons 365 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 1: of war. UM. And then like I said, the proximity 366 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: of the Europeans allowed ideas to spread. And this was 367 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: definitely one of them. Um, the Brits, the French, the Dutch, uh. 368 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: Later on the Americans, they all actually like buried weapons 369 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: when they were engaged in peace treaty talks with different 370 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: Native American tribes. And what was interesting is that some 371 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,719 Speaker 1: Native American tribes that had nothing to do with the 372 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: Iroquois had never probably even met iroquire hot in O'shawnee, 373 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: I should say, Um, the Americans buried the hatchet with 374 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,360 Speaker 1: those tribes as well. So in that sense, the Americans 375 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: actually spread Native American idea from one group to another 376 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 1: group of Native Americans who had never even met. I 377 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: find that fascinating totally Down here in the Southeast with 378 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: the Chickasaw they were burying hatchets in Alabama and Mississippi. 379 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 1: And yeah, it's pretty interesting how custom can spread like that. Uh. 380 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: The seventeen nineties was basically when it became sort of 381 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: a common phrase in North America among English speakers, and 382 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: everyone still uses it, like people still say bury the hatchet. 383 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: Why not bury the tomahawk. Well, that's a good question. Uh, 384 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: you would think that a tomahawk would be a little 385 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: more correct. But the tomahawk was I believe Algonquin. We 386 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: talked about the Algonquin hotel recently, right, yeah, by Hyatt, 387 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: that's right. Uh was a man this very symbolic. Uh, 388 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: it was not an Iroquois word at all, so right, no, um. 389 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: And apparently the Seneca um had a word godji wa, 390 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: so you would probably more accurately say bury the goji wa, 391 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,360 Speaker 1: bury the godgi wa. So there you go, bury the hatchet. 392 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: Literal stuff. How about the next one, Chuck, I love 393 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 1: this one, short and sweet and it has Shakespeare, that's right. 394 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: And the phrase is in a pickle, yeah, which means 395 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,239 Speaker 1: you're in a tight spot, a tough situation, you've got 396 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: a problem, there's a difficulty over your head, something like that. Right, 397 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: that's right. And it always struck me as odd. And 398 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: I think I might even mentioned this before that you 399 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: can be in a pickle, in a jam, and in 400 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: a stew and that's all kind of the same thing. 401 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: And it's all food related, it is, but all of 402 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 1: it means you're you've got a problem, You're you're in 403 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: a tight spot. That's where I'm going to define it 404 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: as you're in a tight spot. We're gonna leave it 405 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,959 Speaker 1: with that. And it was Shakespeare that that came up 406 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: with this one. Yeah, so you mentioned Shakespeare the great 407 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 1: play The Tempest. There's a line from in the play 408 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: from Trinculo to Alonso. I have been in such a 409 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: pickle since I saw you last. I fear me will 410 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: never out of my bones. I shall not fear fly 411 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: blowing Very nice? Shall I translate? Please? So Trinculo has 412 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: been saying he's been totally trashed since the last time 413 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 1: he saw Alonso, and he's drunk so much that he's 414 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 1: concerned it's never going to get it out of his system, 415 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 1: and that even after he dies, the flies won't even 416 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: touch his courts because it will be so preserved by 417 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: all the alcohol that he's drunk. He was in a pickle, 418 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: which it doesn't quite make sense. What does that still mean? 419 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: As in a pickle. But it does make sense when 420 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: you trace it back a little further. Shakespeare actually borrowed 421 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: this phrase introduced to English, but he borrowed the sentiment 422 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: in the phrase from the Dutch, who had their own 423 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: little phrase into pickle zitten for Dutch. That is remarkably readable, 424 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: it really is. There's no rando j somewhere. It's just 425 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: all pretty straightforward. So um, in this sense, the chuck 426 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: peckle doesn't mean the pickle, it means the pickle brine. Yeah, so, 427 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: I mean this is also has to do with if 428 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: you say you're drunk, you you're pickled. That's sort of 429 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: along the similar lines of what that means, right, that 430 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: you were sort of soaking in that pickle brine. Exactly. 431 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: You're preserved by the alcohol, just like a pickle would 432 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: be by the brine. But the thing is is that's 433 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: not what in a pickle means. In a pickle means 434 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: in a tight spot. So at some point hundred two 435 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: hundred years after Shakespeare, Samuel peppis um. I think that's 436 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: how you say his name. I've only ever seen it written, 437 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: but he he was famous for his diary, and one 438 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: of the entries in his Diary in sixteen sixty he 439 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: says that his house is in a pickle, meaning that's 440 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: in in a sorry state, in in bad shape, because 441 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: it was under construction. And so Samuel Peppis was the 442 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: one who kind of took that term and ended up 443 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: setting it free, letting it evolve into being in a 444 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: hard place a bad state. Amazing. And you know what, 445 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: I actually get to follow up on the Shakespeare episode. 446 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,959 Speaker 1: When I was shouting out my great English professor who 447 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: translated just like you just translated, somebody wrote in you 448 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: can always count on a listener. Someone who was at 449 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: at park Hall, the English Building, around the same time 450 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: I was, said, I bet you it was John Vance. 451 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 1: And I looked him up and lo and behold John Vance, 452 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:22,360 Speaker 1: former professor Department of English, now retired and writing novels. 453 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what kind of novels. It's read article from 454 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 1: like four or five years ago. Uh, writing parody novels 455 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: based on his professorship, erotic parody novels. I don't think so. 456 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: But she she said that she try and get the 457 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: word to him that I was shouting him out, but 458 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: I just decided to do it on the show. So 459 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:44,719 Speaker 1: John Vance, if you're out there and you hear this. 460 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: You were one of the best English teachers I've ever had. 461 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: Very nice, Chuck, I don't. I don't think there's anything 462 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: we can do but follow that with a break, because 463 00:27:53,760 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 1: that's stuff off in large skate. As watched my sks, 464 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: you should know, all right. So we got a few 465 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: more to drop on your head, and one is one 466 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: that we uh actually messed up, and that is the 467 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: old slippery slope which I think a lot of people 468 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: over the years, and I had heard it before you 469 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: said it, have it attributed to a Supreme Court justice. 470 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: But that's not the case, right. No. I couldn't see 471 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: exactly where it came from or even what justice has 472 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: used at Wayne, but I did see it goes at 473 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: least back to the nineteenth century. Um. But I think 474 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: what's more interesting about it, Chuck, is UM, it's actually 475 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: a logical fallacy, and it has its own name, the 476 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: slippery slope argument. And basically everybody who's walking around using 477 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: the phrase slippery slope is using it correctly. Um. It 478 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: just basically means, if we do something take one or 479 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: two steps, we're we're entering a dangerous situation that could 480 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: end in catastrophe just from taking that first or second step. Yeah, 481 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: it's a phrase that I have always loathed. Um. I 482 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: think if you say something is a slippery slope, it's 483 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: always it's never like, uh, hey, if you know, if 484 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,479 Speaker 1: your kids hanging out with the the kids smoking by 485 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: the dumpster, it's a slippery slope and they could end 486 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: up smoking too, Like that makes sense. It always is 487 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: some really far off extreme where you say, then your 488 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: kid's gonna end up on heroin one day. Uh if 489 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: they hung out with the kids smoking by the dumpster. 490 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: It's always taken to this really far extreme, and it 491 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: seems like it's used a lot in political arguments where 492 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: just the dumbest things are said about you know, if 493 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,479 Speaker 1: we allow gay marriage, then then what's to stop us 494 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: from marrying our pets and things like that. It's it's 495 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 1: so infuriating it is, and you're right, I think you 496 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: kind of nailed it. Like it goes from we could 497 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: try this to catastrophic problems. And the reason it does 498 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: that is because the slippery slope argument is is used 499 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: to scare somebody else into agreement. It's basically saying, like, hey, 500 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: this new thing that you're talking about It sounds great 501 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: on its face, but do you realize that if we 502 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: do that, the world will literally end? And the other 503 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: person goes, oh, well, I don't want the world to end, 504 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,959 Speaker 1: so we should probably not do that thing. I was suggesting. 505 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,719 Speaker 1: That's right. Uh. And what the problem is, as far 506 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: as the logical fallacy goes, is you are predicting an 507 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: outcome that cannot be predicted. Uh. It's literally just sort 508 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: of making something up to scare people into submission of 509 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: not doing anything. Yeah. Um. There's a guy named James 510 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: Graft who wrote an article about it in the Week 511 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: in two thirteen, and he said the reason why it's 512 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: it just doesn't make sense is because he said, there's 513 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: no reason to reject doing one thing just because it 514 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: might open the door for some undesirable extremes. Permitting aid 515 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: does not suspend our ability to say, but not be 516 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: and certainly not zac down the line. And he also 517 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: points out something I think is really important too, that 518 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: if you with the slippery slope argument, the whole point 519 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: is to say, all these terrible things can happen, and 520 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: if you just focus on that, you're never gonna do anything. 521 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: That's right. Scared into an action exactly nice. Um. And 522 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: the thing about the slippery slope argument is the more 523 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: you look for it, the more you see it everywhere. 524 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: I mean, it is everywhere, and once you realize what 525 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: you're actually what's actually being done to your your psyche, 526 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: it's kind of annoying. At that point, I agreed, Uh, yeah, 527 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: so you're you're right to loathe it. I think I'm 528 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: with you on that, alright. So moving on to a 529 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 1: phrase that I always, very stupidly assumed was French k 530 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: sara sara the great song whatever will be, where will be. 531 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: For some reason, it always sounded French in my head. 532 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: But now that I'm looking at it, k q u 533 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: e is clearly like some variation of Italian or Spanish. 534 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: I don't know why I always thought it was French. 535 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: It just sounded French to me. It does sound French. 536 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, other people think Italian. Maybe what's interesting 537 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: is it's it's both. It's also neither, and it's gibberish. 538 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: It turns out in both languages. But the upshot of 539 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: the meaning of k sara sara is that, Um, the 540 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: way it's translated is whatever will be will be, and 541 00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: it's a it's a reminder to kind of take like 542 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: a lacks attitude toward life, take life as it comes, accepted, 543 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: and enjoy it. You can't you can't really predict the future. 544 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: Don't try you'll just fail. That kind of thing, that's right. Uh. 545 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,239 Speaker 1: And it comes from the Hitchcock film The Man Who 546 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: Knew Too Much and it was sung by Doristay very 547 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: famously in that movie. Became a big, big hit for 548 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: Doris Day. But it was written by Jay Livingston and 549 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: Ray Evans, who were very uh. I don't know about 550 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: how famous famous they were, but within the industry well 551 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: regarded as kind of pumping out these big hits during 552 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: the heyday of of this sort of songwriting. What was 553 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: the uh we did a podcast on it, the um 554 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: tim pan Alley tim pan Alley was this? Then I 555 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: thought tim pan Alley was way earlier. No, I don't 556 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: think so, Okay, Well, these guys would be tim pan 557 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: Alley all the way. Then agreed, I might be wrong, 558 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: but they had big hits with uh Mona Lisa, men 559 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: Have Known You and Silver Bells a great Christmas song, 560 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: the theme to Bonanza. Another great song, The ed Horse 561 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: is a Horse. Of course, of course, yeah, and Livingston, 562 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: one of the writers was the voice of Mr Edge 563 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,839 Speaker 1: Mr Ed. I've always heard of rumor that they put 564 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 1: peanut butter in Mr Ed's mouth to make him flap 565 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: his gums like that, and he hated peanut butter. That 566 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: a horse loves peanut butter. So they wrote this song 567 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: for the Hitchcock movie. But they actually kind of stole 568 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 1: the phrase, not actually kind of. They definitely stole the 569 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: phrase from another movie, The Barefoot Contessa. I'd like to 570 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: say inspired. I think they do too. But in that movie, 571 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: Ava Gardner's character, her family motto is inscribed on her 572 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: Italian villa villa and it's case Sarah Sarah, but they 573 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: spelled that c h E. And what's interesting is the 574 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: guy who wrote and directed The Barefoot Contessa, Joseph Manka 575 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,479 Speaker 1: waits who I think that's the guy that they made 576 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: Manca out right, that's one and the same. Yeah, he 577 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: um apparently did his homework because k Sara Sara did 578 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 1: originate as a family motto, not in Italy, but with 579 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,880 Speaker 1: the first Earl of Bedford in England in the sixteenth century. 580 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, right, so put a pin in that Livingston 581 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: and Evans are inspired enough by this phrase to immediately 582 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: write this song. Uh, and then wait a couple of 583 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 1: weeks for Hitchcock to come calling because they, I guess 584 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 1: they want to make it seem like they really took 585 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: their time with it and came up with a true 586 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: original for Hitchcock for hitch Yeah. And I don't understand 587 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 1: this response from Hitchcock. Ah, is this what he really said? 588 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,760 Speaker 1: I don't, I don't quite get it. His quote was gentleman, 589 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 1: I didn't know what kind of song I wanted, and 590 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: that is the kind of song I want. Okay, just 591 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: a little clumsy. I guess it is a little clumsy. 592 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: You could also take it as like a subtle dig 593 00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I could believe me. The movie the song 594 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 1: was a big hit. The movie was a big hit. 595 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 1: Like I said, Doris Day who apparently did not like 596 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: it at first, But it's a song that's really closely 597 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,399 Speaker 1: associated with her because she, you know, sang it over 598 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: and over in performances over the years. But it was 599 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,320 Speaker 1: a number two hit in the US, number one in Britain, 600 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: and one best original song in X at the Oscars. Right, 601 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 1: So huge song. Why is it? Gibberish? Is the big 602 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 1: question that we face now, right, So the Earl of 603 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,319 Speaker 1: Bedford the motto k sara sara c h E s 604 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 1: A r A s a r a. It is Italian 605 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 1: and it does mean in Italian what will be, will be? Okay, 606 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 1: so that's what the words mean, but it's not grammatically correct, right. No, 607 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,240 Speaker 1: it should be kel k sara sara. And the reason 608 00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: why is because k means what and sarah sarah means 609 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 1: will be, will be. But what is almost like if 610 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:09,399 Speaker 1: if if you were saying what like in English as 611 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: a response to somebody calling your name, will be, will be, 612 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 1: it makes about that much sense grammatically, whereas if you 613 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: if you say kelk sara sara, you're saying the things 614 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: that will be will be, and that makes much more sense. Right. 615 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: But they changed it, Livingston and Evans changed it to 616 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 1: a more sort of Spanish sounding thing by spelling it 617 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 1: q u E s e r A s E r a. 618 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: But that's not grammatically correct either, right, so they still 619 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: mess it up. Yeah, for the same reason because Italian 620 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,359 Speaker 1: and Spanish are both very closely related romance languages. Uh, 621 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: you should say lo k sara sara, same thing, the 622 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: things that will be will be it just doesn't make sense. 623 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: And again it makes sense, but it makes sense in 624 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 1: the way that like the Earl of Bedford probably hired 625 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 1: an English translator who got his hands on an Italian 626 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: dictionary looked up the word what and looked up the 627 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 1: word for what for what will be will be and 628 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: then said that didn't do any of his grammatical research, 629 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 1: and neither did Livingston and Evans. But it doesn't matter, 630 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: apparently agreed. Uh. And that along with our last one, 631 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,720 Speaker 1: which we're gonna talk about, erna sec begs the question, 632 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: are two that I think are often begs. The question 633 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: certainly is often said incorrectly, and people often also jump 634 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: on it and say, you know, you really mean raises 635 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 1: the question that begs the question. I don't hear as 636 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 1: many people when someone says the case ras ra saying actually, 637 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: that's grammatically incorrect. It's true for sure. So just a 638 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: little word of friendly advice from your older friend here, 639 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 1: uh if like correcting someone isn't super cool, but but 640 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: telling someone a cool story about an origin is another 641 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 1: way to do it in a more tactful way. Like 642 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: instead of saying case rassaras and grammatically incorrect, what you 643 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: could say is like, yeah, Case Ross Rogers said, cool 644 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: story behind this. Uh, and you're still sort of correct him, 645 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,800 Speaker 1: but in a gentler way. Yeah. And if you're starting 646 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: out with wrong like you really have some work to do. God, 647 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: go back to the drawing board. So thank you, By 648 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 1: the way, I needed to hear that as well, um, 649 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 1: along with the listeners you were speaking to, because we've 650 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,359 Speaker 1: said begs the question before. Yeah, and I know that 651 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: you've even self corrected and said, I mean raises the question. 652 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:28,359 Speaker 1: But it's sort of one of those things that over 653 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: the years people have tran you know, mistranslated begs the 654 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: question to where everyone gets it now. Yeah, but its 655 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,280 Speaker 1: like the way that everybody uses it, which is wrong. 656 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: It makes sense, which is it's a statement that raises 657 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 1: a question. And an example is, um, everyone looking over 658 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: the menu begs the question what's everyone going to order? Right? Sure, 659 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 1: that is not at all what begs the question really means, 660 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: but because so many people use it that way, now, 661 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,839 Speaker 1: that is what it means. But that there's also an 662 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: original meaning too that actually is closer to correct or 663 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,880 Speaker 1: at the very least worth mentioning. Yeah, and also the 664 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: answer is always French onion soup, so people shouldn't even 665 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 1: be asking anything. I don't know. I've had some bad 666 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 1: French onion soup, man, Yeah, I love French onion soup. 667 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 1: Like you could put a salt like in some with 668 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 1: some beef bullion Cuban, I would probably like it. I've 669 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 1: still had bad French onion soup. Now what does that mean? 670 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 1: They just didn't get a good crust on that cheese 671 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 1: on top or what. No, like the taste was ranked 672 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 1: like something bad happened. But by the way, I've got 673 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: to shout somebody out chuck. We had a listener named 674 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,799 Speaker 1: um Ryan I believe and Ryan is a chef who 675 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 1: rode in and said, hey, man, don't give up on 676 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: your homemade beef stock. You left out a step and 677 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,840 Speaker 1: he he basically said, you want to reduce it by half. 678 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: And I was like, that's exactly right, the beef stock. 679 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: Don't you make the beef stock and you have it done. 680 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: I immediately frozen and he was super watery and tasteless. 681 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: And he said, no, you want to reduce it by 682 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: hashkey Johnson, trade it and then use that. And my 683 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: hats off to him for the rest of my life. 684 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 1: So thanks a lot, Ryan, I believe, who wrote in 685 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: and let me know about that. I had beef bone 686 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: broth for lunch. Oh yeah, from my friends at the 687 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 1: Oh So Good Company. I'm hoping to hear this and 688 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 1: send me free broth because it's expensive. Oh yeah, yeah, 689 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 1: for sure. What's it? What's the name of it? Oh 690 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: so good? Do you get it chipped frozen? And it's 691 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:38,880 Speaker 1: really really good quality broth. I'll take some too, And 692 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 1: I was right. It was Ryan Thompson who wrote in 693 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: to let me know about that. Awesome, that's good especially well, 694 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 1: never mind, but we just missed. We just had Thanksgiving, 695 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,640 Speaker 1: and I was gonna say, if you're gonna make your 696 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,440 Speaker 1: turkey stock, but by this time, when when is this 697 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,879 Speaker 1: going to come out? Mid December? All right? He might 698 00:41:55,880 --> 00:42:00,840 Speaker 1: make another turkey just sure, reduced by half? Yes, reduced 699 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: by half. We're gonna make t shirts that say that 700 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 1: can we get to Aristotle though? Yes? Excellent idea. So 701 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 1: we raise Aristotle because he was the one that that well, 702 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:15,240 Speaker 1: I guess raised the original um meaning of begs the question. 703 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 1: And it's a little bit of circular logic that he 704 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 1: pointed out that sometimes people use right, that's right. He 705 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 1: called it petitio principe. Come on, that's close enough to 706 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 1: Italian that you could do it like that, princippi, which 707 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:35,640 Speaker 1: is basically the use of an argument that uses the 708 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,840 Speaker 1: endpoint as proof itself. And was this your example with 709 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 1: ice cream? How could you tell? Well, because I've never 710 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 1: heard of Superman ice cream, and I just sounds like 711 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: something you would say, apparently it's Midwestern, okay, Neopolitan. No, 712 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 1: it's very colorful. It's gaudy, it's in Garish, it's so colorful, 713 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,759 Speaker 1: and flavors are not Neopolitan flavors. Okay, Okay, I thought 714 00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:59,760 Speaker 1: I thought it meant it was divided into three different 715 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,799 Speaker 1: verse it's all swirled together and it's very pretty. Yeah, 716 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 1: so Superman ice cream, A good example would be Superman 717 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,480 Speaker 1: ice cream is the best ice cream because it's the best. 718 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 1: That would be petitio principe, which is that you're using 719 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,520 Speaker 1: the point you're trying to make as evidence of the point. 720 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,319 Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense whatsoever, but people do that 721 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 1: a lot. And Aristotle said nine no more. Yeah. The 722 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 1: only time you can do that is if you're trying 723 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,960 Speaker 1: to be funny and just say, like, you know, the 724 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 1: original Ghostbusters is the best because it's the best then, 725 00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: and you're making a joke unless you're eight, and I 726 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:43,440 Speaker 1: think that's who Aristotle was really targeting with this. So 727 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 1: here's where it gets somewhat interesting, although I also thought 728 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 1: the other was interesting. But in Latin, petitio principal means 729 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 1: request the principle, uh, which means Aristotle's use of it, 730 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 1: assuming the initial point. But apparently this was just like 731 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:06,840 Speaker 1: a bad translation, right, yes, absolutely terrible bad translation by 732 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,839 Speaker 1: some sixteenth century Europeans who said, oh, request the principle. Well, 733 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,840 Speaker 1: request also kind of means beg in English sort of, 734 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,080 Speaker 1: and the principle we could just substitute the question for that, 735 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:25,440 Speaker 1: and so petitio principi in English now means beg the question, 736 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,920 Speaker 1: even though it makes no sense, especially when you realize 737 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,880 Speaker 1: that it's supposed to mean requests the principle or assuming 738 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,160 Speaker 1: the initial point. That's right, and that's it. That it's 739 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,400 Speaker 1: as easy as that, and as a matter of fact, 740 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,360 Speaker 1: it's as easy to understand as the popular use of 741 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,760 Speaker 1: beg begs the question as like a statement that raises 742 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:48,800 Speaker 1: a question. It's just not explain like people don't explain 743 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:50,799 Speaker 1: it unless you use it wrong and you just happen 744 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 1: to be near a prescriptivest who who's bonkers? Yeah, and 745 00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:00,279 Speaker 1: not to yuck the prescriptive ist yum m, because there 746 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,920 Speaker 1: are people that are very defensive of words and language 747 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:07,040 Speaker 1: is somewhat sacred. I'm not one of them, but you know, 748 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,200 Speaker 1: if that's your thing, just don't be obnoxious about it. 749 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,400 Speaker 1: We we need to do an episode on prescriptivists versus descriptivists. 750 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,759 Speaker 1: I agree. So do you want to end with this 751 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,240 Speaker 1: little anecdote about translations because you can make a case 752 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,640 Speaker 1: that the translation of begs the question is one of 753 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,759 Speaker 1: the worst of all time into English. Yeah, this is 754 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:30,040 Speaker 1: pretty fun. Uh. The great Jimmy Carter, former US President, 755 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,760 Speaker 1: went to Japan on a visit and was getting big laughs. 756 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:40,400 Speaker 1: Uh this anecdote he told about it this small Methodist 757 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,600 Speaker 1: college out in the country, and I think laughs so 758 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,000 Speaker 1: much that he was like, what's going on here? And 759 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,520 Speaker 1: so as a translator, like, why was everyone laughing so 760 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,279 Speaker 1: hard at this story? That wasn't that funny? And what 761 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:57,760 Speaker 1: did the translators say? The translator said that his exact 762 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,840 Speaker 1: words to the public were President think Carter told a 763 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:05,800 Speaker 1: funny story everyone must laugh and the Japanese went wild. 764 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,880 Speaker 1: You could only do that to Jimmy Carter. I know, 765 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,359 Speaker 1: I know, if I'm sure he thought that was hilarious too. 766 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,399 Speaker 1: Of course he's what a what a great guy. He 767 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:19,200 Speaker 1: was a great guy. Is he still around? He's still going? He? Uh? 768 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:24,799 Speaker 1: I believe did Rosalind pass away? I think so? Yes? No, 769 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,479 Speaker 1: she's still life too. Oh okay, yeah, sorry, guys, she's 770 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,840 Speaker 1: nive and he's my lord. But yeah, they still go 771 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:34,640 Speaker 1: to braids games and do stuff. I think he still 772 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,520 Speaker 1: teaches Sunday school and all that stuff. Very cool. Yep. 773 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:42,120 Speaker 1: So that's our episode on Jimmy Carter. Everybody, we should 774 00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,520 Speaker 1: do one on Jimmy Carter. Yeah, why not? He's definitely 775 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,480 Speaker 1: worth an episode. Um, you got anything else about Jimmy 776 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,880 Speaker 1: Carter or phrases? No, but a good listener mail that 777 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,600 Speaker 1: kind of dovetails. Okay, well, hold on, hold on. Since 778 00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,680 Speaker 1: Chuck started talking about listener mail, obviously it's time for 779 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:06,279 Speaker 1: listener mail. Um. Yeah, I didn't even play this. This 780 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,319 Speaker 1: is perfect. Hey, guys, love the show. Uh. In the 781 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,000 Speaker 1: Typewriter episode, you were making suggestions on license plates and 782 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,640 Speaker 1: Chuck suggested balls out b a l z o U 783 00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,480 Speaker 1: t uh. That might be the right amount of vulgar, 784 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,440 Speaker 1: but the assumption is that balls out refers to testicles. 785 00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:24,600 Speaker 1: That is not true at all. The true origin and 786 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,840 Speaker 1: the saying is way more fun and not at all vulgar. 787 00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:32,080 Speaker 1: Many machines use a centrifugal I hate that word, governor 788 00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,440 Speaker 1: to regulate the speed that something is uh spinning and 789 00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,520 Speaker 1: old timy ones you had two weighted balls on the 790 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:43,800 Speaker 1: end of sticks spinning around. You've probably seen this before, right, No, no, 791 00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,239 Speaker 1: you would if if you saw it, you'd recognize it. 792 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:49,960 Speaker 1: It's like two balls like spinning in a circle. I mean, 793 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,120 Speaker 1: I can imagine that, but I can't place it under 794 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,480 Speaker 1: the hood of a car. It's not in a car. 795 00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,080 Speaker 1: This is more like a machine in a factory or something. Oh, 796 00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:04,200 Speaker 1: centriviing goal force. They're classic details to include on cartoon 797 00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:08,239 Speaker 1: machinery and you would know it if you saw it. There. Um, 798 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,799 Speaker 1: the faster the machine is spinning, the further the two 799 00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,920 Speaker 1: balls stick out to the side. So when a machine 800 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,520 Speaker 1: is running at a high speed, it's called running balls 801 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,120 Speaker 1: out because the balls are sticking straight out from the 802 00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,920 Speaker 1: sides of the governor. That's awesome. So when my mind 803 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,920 Speaker 1: balls out as a fantastic custom license plate, especially if 804 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,440 Speaker 1: the driver tends to have a heavy foot. Again, love 805 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:33,240 Speaker 1: the show, Keep the good stuff coming. Peace from Ben, Peace, Ben, 806 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,240 Speaker 1: thank you for that. That's a great one. I still 807 00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,480 Speaker 1: cannot imagine it in any kind of machine. I don't 808 00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:42,480 Speaker 1: know what he's talking about, but I understand what he means. Right. 809 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:47,200 Speaker 1: Just google Centrifugal governor. Okay, I will, And if you 810 00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,680 Speaker 1: want to be like Ben and say peace, you can 811 00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:53,400 Speaker 1: email us. Send it to Stuff Podcasts at iHeart radio 812 00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:58,840 Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of 813 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,200 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit 814 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,080 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 815 00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:09,239 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. H