1 00:00:00,050 --> 00:00:04,610 Speaker 1: Fellow ridiculous historians, we're back with a classic episode. You 2 00:00:04,670 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: may have heard about Cuba and the United States in 3 00:00:07,970 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: the news recently or in the news for, you know, 4 00:00:12,660 --> 00:00:13,780 Speaker 1: decades past. 5 00:00:13,940 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 6 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 7 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:20,180 Speaker 2: It's been, it's hot. Yeah. I remember like there was 8 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:24,340 Speaker 2: a brief period where we, you could go. Yeah. My, 9 00:00:24,380 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 2: my ex and my, my kid said, were able to 10 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,910 Speaker 2: go for that very, very brief period of time. If 11 00:00:29,950 --> 00:00:32,430 Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken, it was under Obama, or maybe it 12 00:00:32,470 --> 00:00:35,130 Speaker 2: was early Biden. But they said it was awesome, and 13 00:00:35,170 --> 00:00:38,330 Speaker 2: then they closed it on back up because we got 14 00:00:38,370 --> 00:00:42,770 Speaker 2: some issues with the Cuban government, some failure to see 15 00:00:42,870 --> 00:00:43,770 Speaker 2: eye to eye, let's just say. 16 00:00:44,130 --> 00:00:47,699 Speaker 1: Yeah, very much so. It's a very long tale. And 17 00:00:47,820 --> 00:00:51,620 Speaker 1: back in 2019, we did an episode about one of 18 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:56,290 Speaker 1: the stinkier things Uncle Sam tried to do in their 19 00:00:56,410 --> 00:01:01,150 Speaker 1: fraught relationship with Cuba. The proper term is a false 20 00:01:01,210 --> 00:01:01,970 Speaker 1: flag attack. 21 00:01:02,210 --> 00:01:04,510 Speaker 2: That's right. And that is about what it sounds like. 22 00:01:04,569 --> 00:01:09,050 Speaker 2: It's flying a flag that ain't accurate. Dirty pool. Dirty pool. 23 00:01:09,910 --> 00:01:13,870 Speaker 2: This involves attacks on U.S. citizens, soldiers, planes, and ships, 24 00:01:14,250 --> 00:01:17,170 Speaker 2: all with the goal of blaming these attacks on Cuba. 25 00:01:17,209 --> 00:01:18,890 Speaker 2: This is quite a stuff they don't want you to 26 00:01:18,930 --> 00:01:21,869 Speaker 2: know crossover. Why don't we roll the tape? Tut, tut, tut. 27 00:01:25,310 --> 00:01:54,059 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 28 00:01:54,100 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you for tuning in. We 29 00:01:57,580 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: are coming to you with fresh hot coffee and some 30 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: fresh hot takes on this Monday morning as we record this. 31 00:02:05,060 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: Who knows when you'll hear it. I'm kidding. It's either 32 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:09,220 Speaker 1: a Tuesday or a Thursday. 33 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,190 Speaker 2: It's true, Ben. The takes that we plan to bring 34 00:02:12,250 --> 00:02:15,950 Speaker 2: today are of the hottest variety. So be careful. 35 00:02:16,330 --> 00:02:17,030 Speaker 1: And you're Noel. 36 00:02:17,330 --> 00:02:17,770 Speaker 2: No, I'm not. 37 00:02:18,190 --> 00:02:18,810 Speaker 1: You're not Noel. 38 00:02:18,970 --> 00:02:19,889 Speaker 2: No, not today. 39 00:02:19,990 --> 00:02:21,750 Speaker 1: That was a false flag. 40 00:02:21,790 --> 00:02:22,210 Speaker 2: That's right. 41 00:02:22,460 --> 00:02:24,180 Speaker 1: That was a false identity of yours? 42 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,059 Speaker 2: Well, I guess so. I mean, a false flag would 43 00:02:26,100 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 2: be if I said I was China and then attacked 44 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,630 Speaker 2: the United States, but I was actually an agent of 45 00:02:34,669 --> 00:02:37,290 Speaker 2: a different country trying to put the blame on China. 46 00:02:37,650 --> 00:02:39,790 Speaker 1: A good example of a false flag would be if 47 00:02:39,910 --> 00:02:47,290 Speaker 1: super producer Casey Pegram hacked his own bank account and 48 00:02:47,350 --> 00:02:52,250 Speaker 1: then blamed it on a different person or country. And 49 00:02:52,290 --> 00:02:55,490 Speaker 1: then use that as an excuse to go to war. 50 00:02:55,550 --> 00:02:57,930 Speaker 1: But you're a peaceful dude, Casey. I don't see you 51 00:02:58,250 --> 00:03:02,950 Speaker 1: waging a one-man war against an entire country. No. 52 00:03:03,130 --> 00:03:03,950 Speaker 3: No false flags here. 53 00:03:04,050 --> 00:03:07,620 Speaker 2: No siree. Ben, are you saying that I would not 54 00:03:07,660 --> 00:03:10,910 Speaker 2: be a believable China as an individual? People would not 55 00:03:11,030 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 2: buy that I was, in fact, the country of China? 56 00:03:13,660 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: Well, maybe if you did it online in like a 57 00:03:17,300 --> 00:03:23,410 Speaker 1: chat room. and you wrote in, you either, you spoke 58 00:03:23,669 --> 00:03:28,310 Speaker 1: in Mandarin and you sounded like 1.3-ish billion people, or 59 00:03:29,410 --> 00:03:32,030 Speaker 1: you wrote out the ideograms. I feel like you could 60 00:03:32,050 --> 00:03:34,669 Speaker 1: pull it off. Maybe not in person, but online, definitely. 61 00:03:34,710 --> 00:03:35,210 Speaker 1: You got this. 62 00:03:35,430 --> 00:03:36,850 Speaker 2: You got this. I really was hoping to be able 63 00:03:36,870 --> 00:03:38,670 Speaker 2: to do it in person, Ben, but I guess if 64 00:03:38,730 --> 00:03:40,370 Speaker 2: online's all I can manage, then that's what I'll do. 65 00:03:41,030 --> 00:03:43,790 Speaker 2: So today, yeah, it's true. We're talking about a false 66 00:03:43,900 --> 00:03:49,170 Speaker 2: flag attack. Specifically... against Cuba. It's true. 67 00:03:49,310 --> 00:03:52,930 Speaker 1: So we have defined false flag with a bit of 68 00:03:52,950 --> 00:03:59,170 Speaker 1: a cavalier approach, but our two comparisons hit the mark. 69 00:03:59,630 --> 00:04:04,830 Speaker 1: A false flag attack is a term that describes a 70 00:04:05,050 --> 00:04:12,030 Speaker 1: country purporting to be attacked by a foreign entity of 71 00:04:12,130 --> 00:04:17,659 Speaker 1: some sort when in fact they are attacking themselves, right? 72 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:23,860 Speaker 1: So there are so many alleged false flags throughout modern history. 73 00:04:24,260 --> 00:04:29,370 Speaker 1: The Gulf of Tonkin incident is one famous alleged false 74 00:04:29,410 --> 00:04:33,650 Speaker 1: flag because according to the official narrative, Uncle Sam still 75 00:04:33,690 --> 00:04:35,950 Speaker 1: says that was 100% legit. The rest is fake news. 76 00:04:35,990 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: We often relegate the concept of false flags, the concept 77 00:04:45,060 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: of this deceitful action to the realm of fringe theory, 78 00:04:49,700 --> 00:04:56,690 Speaker 1: revisionist history, conspiracies and whatnot. However, today we are examining 79 00:04:56,710 --> 00:05:03,870 Speaker 1: a case of a genuine would-be false flag proposed by 80 00:05:04,510 --> 00:05:06,210 Speaker 1: good old folks here at the US of A. 81 00:05:06,470 --> 00:05:08,429 Speaker 2: And just a little background, this might be super obvious 82 00:05:08,450 --> 00:05:10,490 Speaker 2: to most people, especially folks who listen to our other show, 83 00:05:10,510 --> 00:05:12,270 Speaker 2: Stuff They Don't Want You To Know. we cover things 84 00:05:12,310 --> 00:05:15,229 Speaker 2: like this all the time. A false flag attack refers to, 85 00:05:15,310 --> 00:05:18,450 Speaker 2: I guess, the idea of in an engagement in warfare, 86 00:05:18,470 --> 00:05:22,270 Speaker 2: you're supposed to identify yourself, right? Like using a flag 87 00:05:22,310 --> 00:05:24,469 Speaker 2: or some sort of markings on your uniform. 88 00:05:24,490 --> 00:05:24,690 Speaker 1: Great. 89 00:05:24,770 --> 00:05:28,060 Speaker 2: Good point. And with a false flag attack, you are 90 00:05:28,180 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 2: misidentifying yourself on purpose to create a diversion or draw 91 00:05:33,820 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: the attention to a country that you are trying to 92 00:05:37,870 --> 00:05:42,150 Speaker 2: kind of malign, essentially, or create a false conflict between 93 00:05:42,190 --> 00:05:45,270 Speaker 2: these countries, unbeknownst to the party that you are impersonating. 94 00:05:45,830 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: Right, right. Nail on the head there, man. And today's 95 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: episode takes us to the Cold War, takes us to 96 00:05:53,940 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: the 1950s, 1960s, and to Cuba. So the United States 97 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:07,900 Speaker 1: was terrified by the threat of communism, right? And Cuba, 98 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: the country and island of Cuba, was at the time 99 00:06:12,740 --> 00:06:19,390 Speaker 1: seen as a proxy for the USSR, a communist nation 100 00:06:19,910 --> 00:06:23,890 Speaker 1: right on the doorstep. The Reds, they called them. And 101 00:06:24,610 --> 00:06:27,870 Speaker 1: the people in charge of the US military and the 102 00:06:27,930 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: US political machine at the time were absolutely certain that 103 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: there would be some for lack of a better phrase, 104 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,099 Speaker 1: there would be some sort of domino effect that first 105 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:45,810 Speaker 1: Caribbean countries would fall to communism and then that it 106 00:06:45,850 --> 00:06:51,250 Speaker 1: would spread like some sort of ideological disease throughout South America. 107 00:06:51,370 --> 00:06:54,070 Speaker 1: And the next thing you know, there's an uprising in 108 00:06:54,130 --> 00:07:00,620 Speaker 1: Mexico and maybe even Canada. This was alarmist, alarmist thinking, 109 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: and it was taken seriously. So The U.S. spent a 110 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,700 Speaker 1: lot of time, as we learned later through declassified documents, 111 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,870 Speaker 1: trying to figure out ways to overthrow the government of 112 00:07:14,930 --> 00:07:18,690 Speaker 1: Cuba or assassinate the leader of that government, a man 113 00:07:18,810 --> 00:07:22,630 Speaker 1: that is probably familiar to many of us called Fidel Castro. 114 00:07:23,070 --> 00:07:25,890 Speaker 2: And here's the thing, this scheme that was cooked up, 115 00:07:25,940 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 2: it wasn't just some kind of like harebrained idea. It 116 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 2: was very much a product of the Joint Chiefs of 117 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,540 Speaker 2: Staff And its Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara, who's kind 118 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 2: of a big deal, looms large in international politics. 119 00:07:41,060 --> 00:07:45,410 Speaker 1: So we know that there were numerous failed attempts, some 120 00:07:45,450 --> 00:07:49,490 Speaker 1: that never made it out of the pitch room, right? 121 00:07:50,070 --> 00:07:52,830 Speaker 1: And there was the Bay of Pigs invasion, which was 122 00:07:53,210 --> 00:07:58,550 Speaker 1: a failure by all accounts. And the attempts to depose 123 00:07:58,610 --> 00:08:03,430 Speaker 1: or assassinate Fidel Castro were collected under a CIA program 124 00:08:03,450 --> 00:08:07,710 Speaker 1: that was called Operation Mongoose, or its street name was 125 00:08:08,090 --> 00:08:11,570 Speaker 1: the Cuban Project. So if you were a member of 126 00:08:11,630 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: the agency and you were talking in, you know, semi-mixed company, 127 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: you might just refer to it as the Cuban Project, 128 00:08:19,260 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: led by General Edward Lansdale of the U.S. Air Force. 129 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:29,830 Speaker 1: We're not 100% sure. Even now in 2019, where the 130 00:08:30,050 --> 00:08:37,179 Speaker 1: idea for what would be called Operation Northwoods germinated. It 131 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: may have originated with President Eisenhower toward the end of 132 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:47,719 Speaker 1: his administration. But past McNamara, we can't nail down a 133 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 1: specific time and date. All we know is that Eisenhower 134 00:08:53,700 --> 00:08:57,449 Speaker 1: did tell the head of the Joint Chiefs and other 135 00:08:57,630 --> 00:09:01,290 Speaker 1: aides in his cabinet that he wanted to move against 136 00:09:01,350 --> 00:09:06,990 Speaker 1: Castro before the inauguration of the new president. And all 137 00:09:07,010 --> 00:09:10,550 Speaker 1: he was waiting for, basically, was for the Cuban government 138 00:09:10,860 --> 00:09:13,500 Speaker 1: to give him some sort of excuse. 139 00:09:13,660 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 2: Any excuse. 140 00:09:14,500 --> 00:09:17,940 Speaker 1: Any excuse. And then the time grows short, right? 141 00:09:17,980 --> 00:09:19,300 Speaker 2: Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock. 142 00:09:20,140 --> 00:09:26,770 Speaker 1: Eisenhower floats this idea. He says, you know, if This 143 00:09:26,890 --> 00:09:32,890 Speaker 1: Castro fella doesn't provide an excuse to invade. Well, perhaps 144 00:09:34,030 --> 00:09:38,100 Speaker 1: the U.S. could think of manufacturing something that would be 145 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:46,820 Speaker 1: generally acceptable. Generally acceptable means he was suggesting some sort 146 00:09:46,860 --> 00:09:52,350 Speaker 1: of pretext for war, right? A bombing, perhaps, an attack, 147 00:09:53,090 --> 00:09:57,540 Speaker 1: an act of sabotage. carried out against the U.S., and 148 00:09:57,580 --> 00:10:01,500 Speaker 1: we would tell everyone that it was was the communist 149 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: forces doing this, right? We're not talking about necessarily a 150 00:10:06,340 --> 00:10:10,610 Speaker 1: huge catastrophic loss of life. We're talking about maybe a 151 00:10:10,750 --> 00:10:15,950 Speaker 1: Coast Guard boat, right, that got sank or something that 152 00:10:16,690 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 1: makes an ironclad case for us to tell the public, 153 00:10:22,340 --> 00:10:26,620 Speaker 1: the U.S. public, that these are acts of Cuban aggression 154 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,670 Speaker 1: and we must act to save American lives. The problem 155 00:10:31,690 --> 00:10:34,290 Speaker 1: with that is that Cuba wasn't going to do that, 156 00:10:34,750 --> 00:10:37,429 Speaker 1: so we were going to attack our own stuff. That 157 00:10:37,450 --> 00:10:38,230 Speaker 1: was the idea, right? 158 00:10:38,450 --> 00:10:41,370 Speaker 2: No, totally. But they were not able to pull this 159 00:10:41,470 --> 00:10:44,270 Speaker 2: off at the time. Kennedy would not approve any of 160 00:10:44,330 --> 00:10:47,730 Speaker 2: this kind of action. And the general that was in 161 00:10:47,780 --> 00:10:52,130 Speaker 2: charge of all this stuff, General Limnitzer, was really irritated 162 00:10:52,470 --> 00:10:55,350 Speaker 2: at the fact that Kennedy would not play ball. And 163 00:10:55,809 --> 00:10:59,050 Speaker 2: he was also irritated, equally irritated, at the fact that 164 00:10:59,090 --> 00:11:02,890 Speaker 2: Castro seemed to be kind of like cooling his heels 165 00:11:02,929 --> 00:11:05,580 Speaker 2: a little bit. You know, he wasn't going to be 166 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,819 Speaker 2: the one that was going to light the match that 167 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 2: set the fire, you know. 168 00:11:09,340 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: Exactly, exactly. So fast forward to February 26th, 1962. We 169 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,839 Speaker 1: mentioned two generals so far. Let's remember the earlier one, 170 00:11:18,980 --> 00:11:22,330 Speaker 1: General Lansdale. This is the guy who was cooking with 171 00:11:22,370 --> 00:11:27,770 Speaker 1: gas in Operation Mongoose. And Operation Mongoose, again, is this 172 00:11:27,910 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 1: sort of mixtape of increasingly cartoonish ideas about how to 173 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: overthrow or assassinate Fidel Castro. Robert Kennedy hates this stuff. 174 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,020 Speaker 1: It's like this is more and more ridiculous. We're talking 175 00:11:45,059 --> 00:11:49,209 Speaker 1: about poisoned or exploding cigars. There was a plan at 176 00:11:49,490 --> 00:11:53,460 Speaker 1: one point to try to make Castro lose his beard, 177 00:11:53,530 --> 00:11:54,530 Speaker 1: which wouldn't kill him. 178 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 2: It would just, like, shame him. You know, his people 179 00:11:57,140 --> 00:11:59,719 Speaker 2: would be like, Castro without a beard is like a 180 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 2: bird without a song, you know? I can no longer 181 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 2: follow you. 182 00:12:03,140 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: Which is weird and tells us how condescending these folks were. 183 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,219 Speaker 1: They thought very little of the intelligence of the Cuban people. 184 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, clearly. 185 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:16,820 Speaker 1: So Robert Kennedy goes to General Lansdale and says, look, 186 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,860 Speaker 1: just drop this mongoose thing. Drop all these efforts to 187 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: antagonize or assassinate Fidel Castro. Instead, just concentrate on learning 188 00:12:29,710 --> 00:12:33,350 Speaker 1: more about Cuba. Just concentrate on learning stuff before you 189 00:12:33,390 --> 00:12:38,830 Speaker 1: try this regime change. And Lansdale hated this. He felt very, 190 00:12:39,330 --> 00:12:45,270 Speaker 1: very sidelined. He thought that the Kennedy brothers... had gone 191 00:12:45,450 --> 00:12:50,150 Speaker 1: soft on Castro. And this is where the other general 192 00:12:50,210 --> 00:12:52,710 Speaker 1: that you just mentioned, Limnitzer, comes into play. 193 00:12:53,010 --> 00:12:56,250 Speaker 2: Yeah, because like we said before, he was very annoyed 194 00:12:56,309 --> 00:12:58,770 Speaker 2: that he couldn't get the support of Kennedy, the president, 195 00:12:58,910 --> 00:13:01,069 Speaker 2: or his brothers, you know, who were also powerful men. 196 00:13:01,929 --> 00:13:05,410 Speaker 2: And there was this sense that his window for this 197 00:13:05,500 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 2: invasion that he saw as being so crucial was, you know, 198 00:13:09,300 --> 00:13:14,170 Speaker 2: kind of slipping through his fingers, right? And he... felt 199 00:13:14,250 --> 00:13:17,230 Speaker 2: like these efforts, the two, so Ben, let's talk a 200 00:13:17,250 --> 00:13:19,050 Speaker 2: little bit about what were some of the things they 201 00:13:19,090 --> 00:13:22,990 Speaker 2: were doing to provoke the public, you know, the Cuban 202 00:13:23,130 --> 00:13:26,130 Speaker 2: citizenry to maybe revolt against Castro. We did have some 203 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 2: efforts to make that happen. Isn't that right? 204 00:13:28,020 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: Oh, it goes way back. It goes way, way, way, way, 205 00:13:31,220 --> 00:13:35,390 Speaker 1: way back. As part of the Spanish-American War, the U.S. 206 00:13:35,470 --> 00:13:41,290 Speaker 1: invaded and occupied Cuba when it was ruled by Spain 207 00:13:41,710 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: in 1898 and occupied the country until 1902. And then 208 00:13:47,900 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: there was a brief period of insolvence or independence, however 209 00:13:52,140 --> 00:13:55,540 Speaker 1: you want to call it, and the U.S. occupied it 210 00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:00,630 Speaker 1: again from 1906 to 1909, and then briefly 1912, and 211 00:14:00,860 --> 00:14:07,020 Speaker 1: then from 1917 to 1922. The United States has a very, 212 00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: very long history of interfering with Cuba. For some, this 213 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:18,460 Speaker 1: was seen as a necessary step to prevent the encroachment 214 00:14:18,820 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: of foreign powers. You know what I mean? First, the 215 00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:26,990 Speaker 1: Spanish Empire, later the USSR, and for others, This was 216 00:14:27,070 --> 00:14:32,510 Speaker 1: seen as a bellicose act of an outside country trying 217 00:14:32,550 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: to interfere with another country or nation's internal affairs. So 218 00:14:37,180 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: there are a couple ways to look at it, but 219 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: it's true. The CIA has a long history of fomenting 220 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:51,700 Speaker 1: revolution or attempting to do so through proxy protest groups. 221 00:14:52,140 --> 00:14:57,530 Speaker 1: So students spontaneously protest. You know what I mean? Tale 222 00:14:57,590 --> 00:15:00,830 Speaker 1: as old as time, unfortunately. So there were some activities 223 00:15:00,870 --> 00:15:01,930 Speaker 1: like that, most likely. 224 00:15:02,070 --> 00:15:06,950 Speaker 2: Well, and unfortunately, again, that stuff wasn't working. No. It 225 00:15:06,990 --> 00:15:08,970 Speaker 2: was very toothless, it seemed like. If it had ever 226 00:15:09,030 --> 00:15:12,750 Speaker 2: worked at all, it certainly wasn't working anymore. And there 227 00:15:12,850 --> 00:15:16,170 Speaker 2: just seemed to be no inclination on the part of 228 00:15:16,190 --> 00:15:20,070 Speaker 2: the Cuban government to launch the attack that we very 229 00:15:20,130 --> 00:15:22,430 Speaker 2: weirdly so desperately wanted, right? 230 00:15:22,690 --> 00:15:28,070 Speaker 1: Absolutely. So- Lemnitzer and the other Joint Chiefs get together, 231 00:15:28,090 --> 00:15:30,290 Speaker 1: no doubt, in a smoky back. 232 00:15:30,130 --> 00:15:32,710 Speaker 2: Room and say— Yeah, they are the Joint Chiefs, after all. 233 00:15:32,810 --> 00:15:35,930 Speaker 1: They're the chiefs of the Joint's back room, you know? 234 00:15:36,250 --> 00:15:36,690 Speaker 2: Who knows? 235 00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:41,700 Speaker 1: I imagine that they would see marijuana as hippie stuff. 236 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 2: You think so? 237 00:15:42,460 --> 00:15:44,260 Speaker 1: Yeah, they were probably more hard drinkers. 238 00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:47,740 Speaker 2: You don't think it made them more creative? Look, hey, man, 239 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,590 Speaker 2: some of these ideas in Operation Mongoose sound like the 240 00:15:50,620 --> 00:15:52,450 Speaker 2: product of a bunch of stoners in a back room. 241 00:15:53,170 --> 00:15:56,250 Speaker 1: Stoners? I don't know. That seems kind of aggro for stoners. 242 00:15:56,290 --> 00:15:59,870 Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe more like amphetamine poppers. 243 00:15:59,950 --> 00:16:03,750 Speaker 1: Amphetamines were very popular in that time, right? Also, you know, 244 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: maybe this was like a pill thing. I don't even know. 245 00:16:07,420 --> 00:16:09,580 Speaker 1: What pills did they have back then? Did they have Quaaludes? 246 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 2: Spennies? Quaaludes. 247 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. 248 00:16:11,300 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 2: Poppers? Yeah. 249 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,710 Speaker 1: Is that what? Quaaludes are my go-to drug joke because 250 00:16:16,950 --> 00:16:18,750 Speaker 1: I don't know really what they are. 251 00:16:18,770 --> 00:16:21,730 Speaker 2: Well, have you seen Wolf of Wall Street? Yes. Remember 252 00:16:21,770 --> 00:16:24,350 Speaker 2: that scene where he takes the Quaaludes and falls down 253 00:16:24,370 --> 00:16:27,630 Speaker 2: the stairs repeatedly in like amazing comical form? 254 00:16:27,830 --> 00:16:29,070 Speaker 1: And tries to get in the car. Yeah, yeah. 255 00:16:29,090 --> 00:16:31,250 Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes you like a noodle person. That's what 256 00:16:31,270 --> 00:16:31,850 Speaker 2: Quaaludes does. 257 00:16:32,070 --> 00:16:33,530 Speaker 1: I just like saying lewds. 258 00:16:33,610 --> 00:16:36,670 Speaker 2: Yeah. Remember that game Drug Wars that you'd play on 259 00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:39,650 Speaker 2: the graphing calculator back in the day? No. No. No, 260 00:16:39,690 --> 00:16:40,870 Speaker 2: it was like, do you remember this, Casey? 261 00:16:41,050 --> 00:16:41,910 Speaker 3: I totally remember this. 262 00:16:41,990 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. So the TI-83 graphic calculators have these little apps 263 00:16:45,010 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 2: you could load into them, I guess. I don't remember 264 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 2: how you even did it, but one of them was 265 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 2: Drug Wars and you'd play it with alphanumeric key entries 266 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 2: to kind of like generate responses. And I remember one 267 00:16:53,980 --> 00:16:56,770 Speaker 2: of the drugs you could buy was Ludes. And I 268 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:00,190 Speaker 2: was like, what is this Ludes? That sounds decadent. 269 00:17:00,790 --> 00:17:03,530 Speaker 1: It's a brand name. It's sold as, I think the 270 00:17:03,570 --> 00:17:07,430 Speaker 1: drug is still around in different countries, but Don't do drugs, kids. 271 00:17:07,490 --> 00:17:08,050 Speaker 2: Definitely not. 272 00:17:08,109 --> 00:17:10,970 Speaker 1: You'll end up like the Joint Chiefs. And who knows, maybe, 273 00:17:11,030 --> 00:17:14,050 Speaker 1: you know, ideology is a drug, and that's definitely, whatever 274 00:17:14,070 --> 00:17:16,010 Speaker 1: they were doing, that's the drug that they got the 275 00:17:16,130 --> 00:17:25,830 Speaker 1: highest on the most often. So they say, we're going 276 00:17:25,910 --> 00:17:29,590 Speaker 1: to trick the American public. We need to get the U.S. 277 00:17:29,690 --> 00:17:35,370 Speaker 1: behind us, and because this is an international operation... we 278 00:17:35,450 --> 00:17:41,070 Speaker 1: would hopefully, ideally, also fool the rest of the world, 279 00:17:41,410 --> 00:17:43,230 Speaker 1: or at least get a nod and a wink from 280 00:17:43,530 --> 00:17:48,530 Speaker 1: our friendly countries who are also fighting communism. So they said, 281 00:17:48,570 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: if we can get everybody to turn against Cuba, then 282 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: they'll allow us to make war on this nation, but 283 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: we'll know we did a super top-notch job if everyone 284 00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: agrees in the world outside of Cuba, insist that we 285 00:18:07,300 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 1: launch this war against Castro. There was a secret document 286 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,700 Speaker 1: from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, which is declassified now, 287 00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:20,990 Speaker 1: in which they say blatantly, explicitly, let me try a 288 00:18:21,109 --> 00:18:22,170 Speaker 1: villainous voice out. 289 00:18:22,109 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 4: Here, world opinion and the United Nations forum. should be 290 00:18:28,220 --> 00:18:33,619 Speaker 4: favorably affected by developing the international image of the Cuban 291 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 4: government as rash and irresponsible, and as an alarming and 292 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:44,540 Speaker 4: unpredictable threat to the peace of the Western Hemisphere. At 293 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,100 Speaker 4: the end of that, everybody's like. 294 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:48,020 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. 295 00:18:48,060 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 2: And wringing their hands and all that stuff. That was 296 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,770 Speaker 2: a very Lord of the Rings villain kind of sound 297 00:18:52,850 --> 00:18:53,850 Speaker 2: that you had there, Ben. 298 00:18:53,910 --> 00:18:56,070 Speaker 1: Yeah, Lord of the Rings is loosely based on the 299 00:18:56,090 --> 00:18:57,810 Speaker 1: Joint Chiefs of Staff, at least the Ringwraiths. 300 00:18:58,010 --> 00:19:01,850 Speaker 2: That's what I heard. So here's the thing that happens next. 301 00:19:02,450 --> 00:19:06,210 Speaker 2: Operation Northwood, which had been approved by the chairman of 302 00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:08,970 Speaker 2: the Joint Chiefs of Staff, every member of the Joint 303 00:19:08,990 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 2: Chiefs of Staff, it actually, this is what the plan contained. 304 00:19:13,850 --> 00:19:19,409 Speaker 2: several quite horrendous acts of faux terrorism, but yet actual 305 00:19:19,450 --> 00:19:23,030 Speaker 2: terrorism on American soil. The idea of folks being shot 306 00:19:23,250 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 2: in the streets, refugee boats that were leaving Cuba to 307 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:32,180 Speaker 2: be sunk, and also launching a wave of violent acts, 308 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 2: terrorist acts in Washington, D.C. and Miami and other places 309 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 2: across the country. It would involve framing people for bombings. 310 00:19:40,660 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 2: Hijacking planes, planting evidence, and all of it would be 311 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,990 Speaker 2: blamed on Castro and Limnitzer and his crew would have 312 00:19:49,050 --> 00:19:54,020 Speaker 2: everything they needed. to gain public support and international support 313 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,010 Speaker 2: for backing them in this war effort. 314 00:19:57,290 --> 00:20:00,609 Speaker 1: Another quote from the memo, we could develop a communist 315 00:20:00,690 --> 00:20:05,250 Speaker 1: Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities, 316 00:20:05,650 --> 00:20:08,980 Speaker 1: and even in Washington. They were planning this. This is 317 00:20:09,060 --> 00:20:13,189 Speaker 1: absolutely right. And remember earlier we said that false flags, 318 00:20:13,230 --> 00:20:18,050 Speaker 1: when they work, tend to be stuff like Gulf of Tonkin, right? 319 00:20:19,010 --> 00:20:23,169 Speaker 1: Not like a huge loss of thousands of lives. This, however, 320 00:20:23,310 --> 00:20:27,820 Speaker 1: still feels like a cavalcade of catastrophes. The list that 321 00:20:27,859 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: you read off for us, what was that? Innocent people 322 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,220 Speaker 1: shot in the street. Yikes. Boats being sunk on the 323 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 1: high seas, right? violent terrorism in the capital of the U.S. 324 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: and Miami and other places, framing people for bombings, hijacking planes, 325 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 1: tracing it all back to Castro and some kind of 326 00:20:50,330 --> 00:20:53,350 Speaker 1: this goes to the very top sort of idea. This 327 00:20:53,590 --> 00:20:56,730 Speaker 1: feels like they were looking for whatever would have been 328 00:20:56,790 --> 00:21:01,070 Speaker 1: most effective. And it would be nice to think that 329 00:21:01,390 --> 00:21:05,130 Speaker 1: it would have immediately stopped the Once that call to 330 00:21:05,210 --> 00:21:08,409 Speaker 1: war actually happened and they got the support of the 331 00:21:08,470 --> 00:21:11,090 Speaker 1: West and they got the support of the domestic public. 332 00:21:12,010 --> 00:21:16,830 Speaker 1: But this is not what the joint chiefs or the U.S. 333 00:21:16,869 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: military are supposed to be doing. Northwoods suggested that U.S. 334 00:21:21,820 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: personnel would disguise themselves as Cuban agents and then they 335 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:33,660 Speaker 1: could burn ammunition, sink ships at Guantanamo. And they even said, look, 336 00:21:33,700 --> 00:21:34,940 Speaker 1: let's just blow up a U.S. 337 00:21:34,980 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 2: Ship. 338 00:21:35,300 --> 00:21:37,340 Speaker 1: We can take the loss. We'll blame it on Cuba. 339 00:21:37,619 --> 00:21:40,340 Speaker 2: Blame it on Cuba. I mean, this thing was like, 340 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 2: you know, the whole idea to a false flag attack 341 00:21:42,740 --> 00:21:44,860 Speaker 2: or the idea of like crisis actors. That's a big 342 00:21:44,900 --> 00:21:48,209 Speaker 2: term that gets thrown around like the conspiracy community. It's terrible. 343 00:21:48,450 --> 00:21:48,970 Speaker 1: I don't like it. 344 00:21:48,970 --> 00:21:50,570 Speaker 2: No, I don't like it either. But it's used by 345 00:21:50,590 --> 00:21:54,230 Speaker 2: a horrible cancerous media personalities like Alex Jones to justify, 346 00:21:54,609 --> 00:21:57,410 Speaker 2: you know, their position on things like the Sandy Hook 347 00:21:57,430 --> 00:21:59,810 Speaker 2: school shooting where they say, oh, These weren't real shooters. 348 00:21:59,850 --> 00:22:02,429 Speaker 2: They were, quote-unquote, crisis actors. And, you know, this was 349 00:22:02,550 --> 00:22:05,810 Speaker 2: all staged for the purposes of creating uproar against gun 350 00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:10,710 Speaker 2: violence or whatever. Absolutely absurd. In this case, absolutely provable 351 00:22:10,830 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 2: and confirmed. They even were planning to do things like 352 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 2: conduct fake funerals for these supposed victims, right? And I 353 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:19,700 Speaker 2: don't know if we've talked about this, Ben, but a 354 00:22:19,700 --> 00:22:22,580 Speaker 2: lot of this comes from a declassified document from the 355 00:22:22,619 --> 00:22:26,570 Speaker 2: Joint Chiefs of Staff, subject memorandum for the Secretary of 356 00:22:26,609 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 2: Defense's Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba. And it 357 00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:34,219 Speaker 2: goes through and describes a lot of the things that 358 00:22:34,260 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 2: we're talking about here. The author of this report, being 359 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,780 Speaker 2: General Limnitzer himself, goes on to talk about the Remember 360 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 2: the Maine incident, which I was not familiar with up 361 00:22:45,530 --> 00:22:48,730 Speaker 2: until this point. That was the explosion and sinking of 362 00:22:48,770 --> 00:22:52,149 Speaker 2: the USS Maine that began the Spanish-American War that we 363 00:22:52,170 --> 00:22:56,010 Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, where the casualties were listed in U.S. newspapers. 364 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,270 Speaker 2: And that caused this kind of wave of national anger 365 00:23:00,510 --> 00:23:05,109 Speaker 2: and contempt and, again, fomented that support of the war effort, 366 00:23:05,290 --> 00:23:07,649 Speaker 2: which is important, right? Like we never– it's easy to 367 00:23:07,710 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 2: forget or to think that like the government can just 368 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 2: wave a wand and make war happen. But they do 369 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,980 Speaker 2: kind of depend on the support of the public, of constituents, 370 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,460 Speaker 2: because it's all– kind of a political game in the end, right? 371 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,770 Speaker 1: Right. So one of the first lessons learned by the U.S. 372 00:23:24,810 --> 00:23:29,510 Speaker 1: government about the public and war, especially war in other countries, 373 00:23:29,970 --> 00:23:33,410 Speaker 1: came about in the Vietnam War. This was the first 374 00:23:33,470 --> 00:23:40,220 Speaker 1: time that many domestic residents were able to see the unvarnished, 375 00:23:40,619 --> 00:23:46,190 Speaker 1: unpropagandized results of invading a foreign country. They were able 376 00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:50,530 Speaker 1: to see men, women, and children dying, many of whom 377 00:23:50,550 --> 00:23:53,470 Speaker 1: were civilians. They were able to see war crimes in 378 00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:58,150 Speaker 1: real time. This is before the Vietnam War. This, again, 379 00:23:58,770 --> 00:24:01,670 Speaker 1: is a plan that exists in secret in a smoky 380 00:24:01,730 --> 00:24:05,950 Speaker 1: back room. And they still pitched other ideas, too. They said, well, 381 00:24:05,990 --> 00:24:11,140 Speaker 1: what if we refit an American jet to resemble a 382 00:24:11,380 --> 00:24:18,070 Speaker 1: Cuban jet, and then we use it to harass civil air, 383 00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:23,190 Speaker 1: which means private industry air or even just some poor 384 00:24:23,230 --> 00:24:28,430 Speaker 1: schmuck with a little plane in Miami. I don't know. 385 00:24:28,830 --> 00:24:33,510 Speaker 1: That's hilarious to me. It's hilarious because everyone's okay. They 386 00:24:33,530 --> 00:24:37,889 Speaker 1: also want to do a fake attack on U.S. military jets. 387 00:24:38,590 --> 00:24:44,750 Speaker 1: They wanted to have submarines involved. They wanted a pilot 388 00:24:44,790 --> 00:24:49,470 Speaker 1: to fly under assumed identity. And they had steps to 389 00:24:49,530 --> 00:24:52,780 Speaker 1: this plan, which feel a little bit like a spaghetti 390 00:24:52,820 --> 00:24:55,340 Speaker 1: at the wall kind of attempt at solving the problem. 391 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,700 Speaker 1: What if we did this? What if we did that? 392 00:24:58,900 --> 00:25:05,400 Speaker 1: It's a very Dr. Seussian approach to terrible, terrible actions. 393 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: They say we could. They also acknowledge, this is very interesting, 394 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,209 Speaker 1: they also acknowledge, more or less, tacitly at least, they 395 00:25:13,250 --> 00:25:18,570 Speaker 1: acknowledge that, remember, the main incident was indeed a false flag. 396 00:25:18,609 --> 00:25:21,350 Speaker 1: And this was during a time when no one admitted 397 00:25:21,390 --> 00:25:27,380 Speaker 1: that publicly, at least no one associated with the government. Also, 398 00:25:27,619 --> 00:25:30,820 Speaker 1: they said, why don't we have an, get this, an 399 00:25:31,020 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: incident which will demonstrate that a Cuban aircraft has attacked 400 00:25:35,020 --> 00:25:39,210 Speaker 1: and shot down A charter civil airline. So what's a 401 00:25:39,230 --> 00:25:42,689 Speaker 1: charter civil airline? That's like Delta Southwest, something like that. 402 00:25:42,730 --> 00:25:45,230 Speaker 2: A commercial passenger plane. They were going to do that? 403 00:25:45,869 --> 00:25:47,550 Speaker 2: They were actually going to shoot down a plane? 404 00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:51,090 Speaker 1: No. Well, they were going to fake it. They were 405 00:25:51,150 --> 00:25:52,710 Speaker 1: not actually going to kill the people. 406 00:25:52,780 --> 00:25:55,700 Speaker 2: Got it. Okay, so that's when the crisis actors thing 407 00:25:55,740 --> 00:25:57,500 Speaker 2: comes in. I know you hate that term, but this 408 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 2: does apply because this is literally folks that are posing 409 00:26:00,220 --> 00:26:03,930 Speaker 2: as victims. Who would write? Like even they're talking about 410 00:26:03,970 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 2: shooting people in the streets. Were they really going to 411 00:26:05,859 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 2: shoot people in the streets or was it going to 412 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 2: be people like pretending to be shot in the streets 413 00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:10,940 Speaker 2: and then they were going to have fake funerals? 414 00:26:11,380 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 1: That's the tough part because at this time too, we 415 00:26:14,420 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: have to remember social media doesn't exist. So you could, 416 00:26:18,900 --> 00:26:25,449 Speaker 1: if you had people playing ball with you in the broadcast, radio, television, 417 00:26:25,530 --> 00:26:28,450 Speaker 1: and the media of the time, the printed papers, then 418 00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:30,790 Speaker 1: you could just, you could just make up some names. 419 00:26:30,830 --> 00:26:34,500 Speaker 1: You could be like, well, It turns out that Casey, 420 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: real name Pegram from any town, Illinois, was tragically a victim. 421 00:26:40,619 --> 00:26:46,050 Speaker 1: He leaves behind two children, a schnauzer, and a collection 422 00:26:46,530 --> 00:26:47,649 Speaker 1: of vintage records. 423 00:26:47,750 --> 00:26:49,610 Speaker 2: Yeah, and also tiny spoons. 424 00:26:50,410 --> 00:26:51,669 Speaker 1: He's also a spoonist, yeah. 425 00:26:51,690 --> 00:26:52,530 Speaker 2: Yeah, and thimbles. 426 00:26:54,109 --> 00:26:57,370 Speaker 1: So what our point is here is that there's no 427 00:26:57,510 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: way for Pegram the average newspaper reader or the average 428 00:27:02,859 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: TV radio listener to go through and do due diligence 429 00:27:07,460 --> 00:27:08,260 Speaker 1: to me a couple of times. 430 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 2: I said, do, do stuff. Yeah, that's funny too. My 431 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:11,700 Speaker 2: 12 year old self applauds you. 432 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: Well, I'm emotionally nine, so I'm glad I'm impressing an 433 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:20,220 Speaker 1: older person. So, so this, this thing though, we're, we're 434 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,970 Speaker 1: being a bit glib, but this is, this is evil. 435 00:27:23,390 --> 00:27:27,010 Speaker 1: This is actually an evil thing to do because. 436 00:27:27,780 --> 00:27:32,899 Speaker 2: Why would they declassify this ever? Right? We've had this 437 00:27:32,940 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 2: conversation on the other show, and so they want you 438 00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 2: to know about, like, what leads to things being declassified. 439 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 2: Is it literally just a clock time thing where enough 440 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,409 Speaker 2: time has passed that this stuff doesn't matter anymore? We 441 00:27:41,430 --> 00:27:43,730 Speaker 2: want to give the public a little bit of juicy stuff? Or, 442 00:27:44,030 --> 00:27:46,510 Speaker 2: I don't know, is it just literally a storage thing, 443 00:27:46,570 --> 00:27:48,149 Speaker 2: or we need to move some documents out of the 444 00:27:48,210 --> 00:27:50,530 Speaker 2: secret vaults into this other vault so we can, you know, 445 00:27:50,570 --> 00:27:52,550 Speaker 2: make more room for more classified stuff? Right. 446 00:27:52,609 --> 00:27:53,750 Speaker 1: Mistakes were made, huh? 447 00:27:54,250 --> 00:27:54,390 Speaker 3: So. 448 00:27:55,170 --> 00:27:59,490 Speaker 1: All details of this plan of Operation Northwoods were hidden 449 00:28:00,130 --> 00:28:04,510 Speaker 1: for almost 50 years, more like 40 years, but for 450 00:28:04,530 --> 00:28:07,630 Speaker 1: decades and decades were hidden. And that general that we 451 00:28:07,730 --> 00:28:14,389 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, Lemnitzer, he probably thought that this very dark 452 00:28:14,540 --> 00:28:19,460 Speaker 1: brainstorming exercise was over and done with, that all copies 453 00:28:19,780 --> 00:28:24,340 Speaker 1: of the paperwork, all copies of this memo were preserved. 454 00:28:25,090 --> 00:28:25,770 Speaker 2: Destroyed. 455 00:28:26,750 --> 00:28:32,510 Speaker 1: And he had an established practice of regularly destroying things 456 00:28:32,670 --> 00:28:36,030 Speaker 1: if they would compromise him or his associates later. However, 457 00:28:36,050 --> 00:28:39,410 Speaker 1: I do want to mention you can find this at 458 00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:45,130 Speaker 1: the NSA archives. It is online now. You can Google it. Noel, 459 00:28:45,170 --> 00:28:47,710 Speaker 1: you earlier read the name of the memo. We want 460 00:28:47,730 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: you to find it, read it for yourself. I will 461 00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: say that it's written in very, to the point, simplistic language. 462 00:28:54,020 --> 00:28:57,570 Speaker 1: They're not trying to cloak this in some sort of legalese. 463 00:28:58,390 --> 00:29:04,390 Speaker 1: Oddly enough, we know exactly how the Operation Northwoods documents 464 00:29:04,470 --> 00:29:08,870 Speaker 1: came to light. At first, it turned out that not 465 00:29:08,930 --> 00:29:12,580 Speaker 1: everything was destroyed, obviously. A lot of it was so 466 00:29:12,620 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: much so that we don't know who knew what and when, 467 00:29:16,700 --> 00:29:22,610 Speaker 1: but these came into the public eye In 1992, that's 468 00:29:23,470 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: when they hit the mainstream, because of a film by 469 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,540 Speaker 1: one Oliver Stone. Casey, can you guess which one it is? 470 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 3: JFK. 471 00:29:31,860 --> 00:29:34,770 Speaker 1: Nailed it. Nailed it. Yeah, because of the Oliver Stone 472 00:29:34,790 --> 00:29:39,709 Speaker 1: film JFK, which examined the idea of a conspiracy behind 473 00:29:39,730 --> 00:29:46,100 Speaker 1: the internet. assassination of President JFK, President Kennedy. This conspiratorial 474 00:29:46,140 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: film ultimately led to the discovery of Northwoods because Congress 475 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:56,700 Speaker 1: passed a law due to overwhelming public outcry. They passed 476 00:29:56,790 --> 00:30:00,250 Speaker 1: a law to increase public access to government records. at 477 00:30:00,290 --> 00:30:02,890 Speaker 1: least as far as they're related to JFK. And this 478 00:30:02,970 --> 00:30:04,340 Speaker 1: is something that came out in the wash. 479 00:30:04,780 --> 00:30:09,540 Speaker 2: Very interesting. Speaking of assassination attempts, talk about dodging bullets. 480 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 2: Fidel Castro was certainly a very popular target for assassination attempts. 481 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,430 Speaker 1: Oh, he's the bell of the bloody ball. 482 00:30:19,450 --> 00:30:23,150 Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah. According to a gentleman who protected him 483 00:30:23,670 --> 00:30:30,340 Speaker 2: during his regime, He survived over 600 assassination attempts, everything 484 00:30:30,420 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 2: from snipers to some of the crazy methods the CIA 485 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 2: were plotting against him. 486 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: Poisoned wetsuit. 487 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 2: Poisoned wetsuit. Go on, Ben. 488 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:44,180 Speaker 1: Well, OK. So in 1975, the Senate Intelligence Committee said 489 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:49,350 Speaker 1: it had concrete evidence of this plan to offer Fidel 490 00:30:49,380 --> 00:30:52,970 Speaker 1: Castro through proxy, of course, a wetsuit lined with spores 491 00:30:53,130 --> 00:30:56,620 Speaker 1: and bacteria that that would give him a skin disease. 492 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: This apparently involved the guy who would be their point 493 00:31:02,660 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: man for this was a U.S. lawyer named James B. Donovan, 494 00:31:06,820 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: and he was going to give Castro the wetsuit when 495 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: he went to negotiate the release of prisoners from the 496 00:31:14,300 --> 00:31:19,790 Speaker 1: failed Bay of Pigs invasion. Eventually, they abandoned the plan 497 00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:24,300 Speaker 1: because the lawyer gave Castro a different diving suit And 498 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: they said, on his own initiative. But that's, yeah, just 499 00:31:28,140 --> 00:31:31,540 Speaker 1: like you said, there are so many weird ways that 500 00:31:32,220 --> 00:31:35,910 Speaker 1: the U.S. government planned to antagonize or kill Fidel Castro. 501 00:31:35,970 --> 00:31:37,690 Speaker 2: If you want to check out a list of those, 502 00:31:37,730 --> 00:31:40,910 Speaker 2: you can go to Mental Flaw straight away for 10 503 00:31:40,910 --> 00:31:44,370 Speaker 2: ways the CIA tried to kill Castro by Stacey Conrad. 504 00:31:44,390 --> 00:31:48,590 Speaker 2: We mentioned exploding cigar earlier. That kind of makes me 505 00:31:48,650 --> 00:31:51,770 Speaker 2: think of the episode we did about the Nazis' attempts to, 506 00:31:51,930 --> 00:31:55,740 Speaker 2: or like plans, plots to kill Castro. Winston Churchill, and 507 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,140 Speaker 2: that was with an exploding chocolate bar and also an 508 00:31:58,180 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 2: exploding cigar. Several cigar-based murder attempts here, including poisoning his cigar. 509 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,270 Speaker 2: We even have one that involved an exploding conch shell, 510 00:32:08,290 --> 00:32:11,250 Speaker 2: ballpoint hypodermic syringe. 511 00:32:11,550 --> 00:32:14,530 Speaker 1: You know, the closest one, the closest they ever got 512 00:32:14,990 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: by most sources was a poisoned milkshake in 1963. Castro 513 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: may well have died, but the waiter at the Havana 514 00:32:27,540 --> 00:32:30,900 Speaker 1: Hilton was trying to retrieve the pill that he was 515 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: supposed to stick in the milkshake, but it stuck to 516 00:32:33,580 --> 00:32:36,580 Speaker 1: the freezer. And then when he was trying to grab 517 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:43,070 Speaker 1: it and rip it loose, the capsule itself tore apart. Shame. Well, 518 00:32:43,130 --> 00:32:45,110 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, don't ruin a good milkshake. 519 00:32:50,230 --> 00:32:52,490 Speaker 2: So this is literally all just about eradicating communism, huh? 520 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,460 Speaker 1: You know, I think it's more than that. It's easy 521 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: to say, yeah, they were targeting communism, but there are 522 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:03,810 Speaker 1: a lot of economic incentives at play. There are a 523 00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:09,620 Speaker 1: lot of questions about regional hegemons. You know, you want 524 00:33:09,660 --> 00:33:12,500 Speaker 1: to control other nations on your border. 525 00:33:12,540 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 2: They're close. 526 00:33:13,420 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: They're too close for. 527 00:33:14,260 --> 00:33:17,730 Speaker 2: Comfort, right? And, you know, it's crazy too. My daughter 528 00:33:17,930 --> 00:33:21,950 Speaker 2: and her mom and stepdad, they briefly, there was this 529 00:33:22,030 --> 00:33:25,490 Speaker 2: window that opened up for tourists to be able to 530 00:33:25,570 --> 00:33:28,610 Speaker 2: visit Cuba. And they did that and had a lovely time. 531 00:33:28,790 --> 00:33:30,959 Speaker 2: My daughter, it was a super amazing adventure for her. 532 00:33:31,380 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 2: And then like very shortly after they got back, the 533 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,340 Speaker 2: Trump administration closed that window. And it's all about kind 534 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,300 Speaker 2: of putting pressure on them for trade and tariffs. And 535 00:33:40,420 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 2: there's like that embargo that's been going on for so long. 536 00:33:43,100 --> 00:33:44,940 Speaker 2: It's part of the reason that in Cuba, they don't 537 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 2: have any modern cars. It's all like older cars that 538 00:33:47,380 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 2: they've been able to work on because they've been kind 539 00:33:48,820 --> 00:33:50,900 Speaker 2: of in this trade bubble for so long, right? Yeah. 540 00:33:51,220 --> 00:33:55,140 Speaker 1: And my buddy Scott and I have an excellent episode 541 00:33:55,400 --> 00:34:00,219 Speaker 1: on our show Car Stuff about the amazing ingenuity of 542 00:34:00,340 --> 00:34:03,300 Speaker 1: Cuban nationals when it comes to those vehicles. You can 543 00:34:03,340 --> 00:34:07,460 Speaker 1: see cars from the 50s and 60s that are maintained 544 00:34:07,660 --> 00:34:12,140 Speaker 1: in this, this amazing fashion. By the way, car stuff 545 00:34:12,900 --> 00:34:16,380 Speaker 1: is coming back and you can, you can hear more 546 00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: about everything that floats, flies, swims, or drives very, very soon. 547 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: So check it out. If you get a chance to 548 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,299 Speaker 1: tell my buddy, Scott, you heard about it here. You 549 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,980 Speaker 1: can say Ben sent me and Ben told me that 550 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:29,899 Speaker 1: you would give me a free t-shirt. If I write 551 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,620 Speaker 1: to you, it's true. It's true. 552 00:34:32,700 --> 00:34:33,030 Speaker 2: It's true. 553 00:34:33,070 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 1: It's not a false flag. So Ben, That is the story. 554 00:34:36,380 --> 00:34:41,610 Speaker 1: The good news is that Operation Northwoods never occurred. As 555 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,970 Speaker 1: far as we know, there was no false flag that 556 00:34:46,150 --> 00:34:51,470 Speaker 1: actually took U.S. lives or Cuban lives and used those 557 00:34:51,670 --> 00:34:55,010 Speaker 1: deaths as a pretext to go to a hot war 558 00:34:55,550 --> 00:34:59,689 Speaker 1: with Cuba. However, we might never have found out about 559 00:34:59,750 --> 00:35:04,620 Speaker 1: this if it weren't for the public outcry of and 560 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: public interest following Oliver Stone's film, JFK. And this is 561 00:35:10,540 --> 00:35:13,219 Speaker 1: important for us to remember because it's often said that 562 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,549 Speaker 1: history doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme. And yeah, maybe 563 00:35:16,570 --> 00:35:19,830 Speaker 1: that's a cliche, but here's a pro tip about cliches. 564 00:35:20,070 --> 00:35:25,069 Speaker 1: They're usually called cliches because they're true. So now we 565 00:35:25,130 --> 00:35:29,800 Speaker 1: have to, not as members of individual countries or nations 566 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,590 Speaker 1: or communities, but as a species, We must exercise critical 567 00:35:34,670 --> 00:35:40,890 Speaker 1: thinking when we hear about these sorts of attacks, these 568 00:35:40,930 --> 00:35:45,070 Speaker 1: sorts of things that could be Malcolm Gladwell-esque tipping points. 569 00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:49,130 Speaker 1: One of the most recent that's occurred as we record 570 00:35:49,170 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 1: this is the rising tension in the Strait of Hormuz, 571 00:35:56,100 --> 00:36:01,940 Speaker 1: which is largely controlled by the Republic of Iran. And recently, again, 572 00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: this is 2019, there have been alleged attacks on tankers. 573 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: The U.S. says that Iran did it. Iran says they 574 00:36:11,219 --> 00:36:16,970 Speaker 1: didn't do it. And Iran has also made other claims 575 00:36:17,010 --> 00:36:20,090 Speaker 1: about its own tankers being taken. And there are some people, 576 00:36:20,210 --> 00:36:24,730 Speaker 1: policy wonks, journalists, et cetera, who are keeping an eye 577 00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:29,110 Speaker 1: on the situation and already claiming that a false flag 578 00:36:29,390 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 1: is afoot. This has not been proven yet. And the 579 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 1: weird thing about false flags is if Operation Northwoods is 580 00:36:37,300 --> 00:36:40,340 Speaker 1: in the indicator, we learn about them about 40 years 581 00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: after they happen. But it makes for some fun podcast fodder. 582 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: It's okay because no one actually died. 583 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:48,720 Speaker 2: Exactly. 584 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:53,299 Speaker 1: So we hope that you will write to us and 585 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,380 Speaker 1: tell us whether you have visited Cuba. A couple of 586 00:36:56,460 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: our close friends have. Our research pal, Ryan. Barish has 587 00:37:01,340 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: visited Cuba recently. He was there for quite a while. 588 00:37:04,060 --> 00:37:08,899 Speaker 1: I think he has dual citizenship, so he's able to go. Right, 589 00:37:08,940 --> 00:37:10,320 Speaker 1: because he has German citizenship. 590 00:37:10,340 --> 00:37:10,620 Speaker 2: That's right. 591 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,310 Speaker 1: Yep, yep. And I do want to, before we end 592 00:37:15,350 --> 00:37:19,930 Speaker 1: today's episode, I want to get your opinion, Casey, on 593 00:37:19,950 --> 00:37:23,760 Speaker 1: the 1992 Oliver Stone film JFK. Did you watch it? 594 00:37:23,790 --> 00:37:24,950 Speaker 1: Did you like it? What's your take? 595 00:37:25,170 --> 00:37:25,290 Speaker 2: One? 596 00:37:25,610 --> 00:37:26,489 Speaker 1: Ten? I don't know. 597 00:37:26,940 --> 00:37:27,540 Speaker 2: I think it's great. 598 00:37:29,140 --> 00:37:31,620 Speaker 3: I think a lot of people have pointed out there's 599 00:37:31,660 --> 00:37:37,210 Speaker 3: a lot of conjecture and stuff that's probably been disproven 600 00:37:37,450 --> 00:37:39,870 Speaker 3: since that film came out. But just as a piece 601 00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:43,669 Speaker 3: of filmmaking itself and as something that kind of goes 602 00:37:43,730 --> 00:37:48,310 Speaker 3: to the wider skepticism, suspicion, whatever you want to call it, 603 00:37:48,350 --> 00:37:51,060 Speaker 3: lingering doubts in the American psyche about that whole event, 604 00:37:51,660 --> 00:37:52,219 Speaker 3: I think it's great. 605 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,750 Speaker 1: Casey on the case. What do you think, Noel? Do 606 00:37:55,770 --> 00:37:56,370 Speaker 1: you remember that one? 607 00:37:56,610 --> 00:37:58,170 Speaker 2: I have not seen JFK. 608 00:37:58,489 --> 00:37:59,910 Speaker 1: That's Kevin Costner, I believe. 609 00:37:59,950 --> 00:38:05,219 Speaker 2: Kevin Costner. I did see Nixon. I remember liking it 610 00:38:05,780 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 2: just fine. I really liked Platoon. 611 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:11,259 Speaker 1: Platoon was always a. 612 00:38:11,260 --> 00:38:13,540 Speaker 2: Favorite war movie of mine. But now in my older years, 613 00:38:13,580 --> 00:38:15,759 Speaker 2: I realize that Full Metal Jacket is the superior film. 614 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: You're not in Apocalypse Now, man? 615 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,140 Speaker 2: No, I think Full Metal Jacket is my favorite. Apocalypse 616 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:22,899 Speaker 2: Now would be second. Platoon would be third. 617 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:23,890 Speaker 1: You know, I. 618 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:26,580 Speaker 2: In terms of NOM movies. 619 00:38:26,980 --> 00:38:31,730 Speaker 1: I think because I did a stage play of Apocalypse Now. 620 00:38:32,489 --> 00:38:33,690 Speaker 2: Wait, what? Like in Rushmore? 621 00:38:35,290 --> 00:38:36,890 Speaker 1: No. Kind of. Yeah, true story. 622 00:38:36,910 --> 00:38:37,530 Speaker 2: That's amazing. 623 00:38:37,790 --> 00:38:41,730 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It was definitely a thing that happened. I 624 00:38:41,790 --> 00:38:45,800 Speaker 1: think that's maybe that's why I love Apocalypse Now. I 625 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,060 Speaker 1: even love the documentary about the making of Apocalypse Now. 626 00:38:49,450 --> 00:38:49,890 Speaker 2: I do too. 627 00:38:50,110 --> 00:38:51,770 Speaker 3: That's Hearts of Darkness. 628 00:38:51,950 --> 00:38:55,450 Speaker 1: Great. I'm such a fanboy for that. Full Metal Jacket 629 00:38:55,489 --> 00:38:58,750 Speaker 1: is great. Don't get me wrong. Just for my money, 630 00:38:58,810 --> 00:39:01,970 Speaker 1: I love the brutal chaos. 631 00:39:02,050 --> 00:39:05,190 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. And the madness of it too. It's a 632 00:39:05,230 --> 00:39:08,589 Speaker 2: very Shakespearean almost tragedy. You know, you're right, Ben. Maybe 633 00:39:08,610 --> 00:39:09,969 Speaker 2: if I held them side by side. I just have 634 00:39:09,989 --> 00:39:12,650 Speaker 2: a real fondness in my heart for Full Metal Jacket. 635 00:39:13,010 --> 00:39:14,750 Speaker 2: I haven't seen Apocalypse Now in some time. I think 636 00:39:14,770 --> 00:39:16,890 Speaker 2: if I watched it today, I might flip. 637 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:18,900 Speaker 3: We get a chance to see a new version of 638 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,660 Speaker 3: it soon because he's doing yet another director's cut. 639 00:39:22,180 --> 00:39:23,299 Speaker 2: Is that a good thing or a bad thing? 640 00:39:23,570 --> 00:39:23,970 Speaker 1: I don't know. 641 00:39:24,010 --> 00:39:26,850 Speaker 3: I'm kind of tired of seeing different versions of that movie, 642 00:39:26,890 --> 00:39:28,109 Speaker 3: but I guess there's one more. 643 00:39:28,450 --> 00:39:29,910 Speaker 1: It might be a diminishing return. 644 00:39:30,530 --> 00:39:31,300 Speaker 2: At some point. 645 00:39:31,489 --> 00:39:33,890 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, a lot of people have pointed out that 646 00:39:33,910 --> 00:39:36,990 Speaker 3: the extended cut, the redux cut, is kind of boring. 647 00:39:37,390 --> 00:39:39,489 Speaker 3: There's about 40 minutes in there where they're just at 648 00:39:39,530 --> 00:39:44,820 Speaker 3: that weird plantation. Yeah, the old French colonial. Rubber plantation, yeah. 649 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 3: Which is kind of just... Drags for a long time. 650 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,009 Speaker 1: There's a weird sex scene in there that just, it 651 00:39:51,090 --> 00:39:55,230 Speaker 1: just occurs as it feels as if that, that scene, 652 00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:57,470 Speaker 1: and I know this is not your other show movie crush, 653 00:39:57,830 --> 00:40:02,410 Speaker 1: but that scene, that entire segment of the Redux film, 654 00:40:03,210 --> 00:40:08,509 Speaker 1: it seems like backstage, they, they just in production had 655 00:40:08,610 --> 00:40:12,689 Speaker 1: access to this place and they said, all right, let's just, 656 00:40:12,790 --> 00:40:15,330 Speaker 1: let's do some stuff. You know, let's do a dinner scene. 657 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,490 Speaker 1: They should talk about how they feel in very vague terms. 658 00:40:19,950 --> 00:40:21,950 Speaker 1: And then let's do a, you know, let's do a 659 00:40:21,989 --> 00:40:24,140 Speaker 1: sex scene because we still have the room. We still 660 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: have the location. And they were like, all right, we 661 00:40:26,660 --> 00:40:27,300 Speaker 1: got to get back. 662 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 2: To the story. Speaking of getting back to the story, 663 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:31,029 Speaker 2: our story's over. 664 00:40:31,580 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: That's true. 665 00:40:32,100 --> 00:40:34,090 Speaker 2: And so is our episode. But if you want to 666 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:35,819 Speaker 2: do any of the things we were talking about, write us, 667 00:40:35,860 --> 00:40:38,930 Speaker 2: let us know. Your favorite false flag attack, something you 668 00:40:38,969 --> 00:40:42,009 Speaker 2: think maybe was a false flag attack. Anything. Your favorite 669 00:40:42,050 --> 00:40:44,450 Speaker 2: part of Apocalypse Now. How did you feel about the redux? 670 00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:46,410 Speaker 1: Too long? Did it lag a little bit? 671 00:40:46,430 --> 00:40:48,250 Speaker 2: How did you feel about that weird sex scene? Let 672 00:40:48,290 --> 00:40:51,830 Speaker 2: us know. Write to us at ridiculous at iheartradio.com or 673 00:40:51,870 --> 00:40:53,350 Speaker 2: hit us up on our Facebook group, which is the 674 00:40:53,390 --> 00:40:54,350 Speaker 2: Ridiculous Historians. 675 00:40:54,830 --> 00:41:00,310 Speaker 1: You can also find us individually on Instagram. See me 676 00:41:00,469 --> 00:41:05,300 Speaker 1: get kicked into and out of various places and countries. 677 00:41:06,010 --> 00:41:08,840 Speaker 1: Spoiler alert, I've got a couple big trips coming up 678 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 1: in summer, so stay tuned to that. I am at 679 00:41:11,660 --> 00:41:12,180 Speaker 1: Ben Bolin. 680 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,839 Speaker 2: You can find me at HowNowNoelBrown. It's mainly just me 681 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,489 Speaker 2: getting kicked in the shins by small children. 682 00:41:18,989 --> 00:41:21,049 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know why they hate your shins so much. 683 00:41:21,110 --> 00:41:21,870 Speaker 1: It's a thing now. 684 00:41:21,989 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. 685 00:41:22,900 --> 00:41:26,100 Speaker 1: And as always, thank you to our super producer, Casey Pegram. 686 00:41:26,140 --> 00:41:30,529 Speaker 1: Thank you to our research associates, Gabe Luzier and Ryan Barish. 687 00:41:30,739 --> 00:41:33,169 Speaker 2: Big thanks to Alex Williams, who composed our theme. Thanks 688 00:41:33,210 --> 00:41:37,910 Speaker 2: to Jonathan, the quizster Strickland for, you know, occupying that 689 00:41:38,310 --> 00:41:41,370 Speaker 2: space of pure evil that allows the universe to exist 690 00:41:41,430 --> 00:41:42,870 Speaker 2: in some weird form of harmony. 691 00:41:42,890 --> 00:41:45,049 Speaker 1: That's so nice that you give me a shout out 692 00:41:45,070 --> 00:41:46,950 Speaker 1: because you guys get kind of antagonistic. 693 00:41:46,969 --> 00:41:47,510 Speaker 2: A little bit. 694 00:41:48,340 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 1: And of course, thanks to Eve's Jeff coat, who will 695 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,100 Speaker 1: be appearing on the show sometime soon. We hope as 696 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:59,100 Speaker 1: well as Christopher Hossie Otis. Thank you for listening. And Noel, 697 00:41:59,500 --> 00:42:03,739 Speaker 1: thank you for taking this strange journey with me. May 698 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,620 Speaker 1: we never be the victims of a false flag attack. 699 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:08,980 Speaker 1: They should just be real flats. 700 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:19,360 Speaker 2: Agreed. See you next time, folks. For more podcasts from 701 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,310 Speaker 2: iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 702 00:42:22,350 --> 00:42:24,330 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.