1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: You should never say how I mistook one party can 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: send those on a recording, rubb it. It's okay. It's 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: with a president, so it can't be there. Um, you 4 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 1: shouldn't have done. That's Jimmy Corton. Dude. Well he's never recovered, man. Yeah, 5 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: you can see it in his eyes when he tried 6 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: to rebuild those houses. Welcome to It could happen here 7 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: the podcast where one of us committed a crime against 8 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: Jimmy Carter, former President of the United States. Um, that 9 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: might actually get us in trouble with the Secret Service. 10 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: But you know what it's happening. It's happening James. Well, 11 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: they're gonna have to figure out which one it was. Yes, 12 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: and that of course second voice, James Stout, who might 13 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: wind up in Guantanamo for this because he's not a 14 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: US citizen. But I feel pretty safe, and I feel 15 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: like our guest for today is pretty safe. And I 16 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: would like to introduce Stephen Manicelli. Stephen, you work for 17 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: and are an editor at Protein Magazine. You've written for 18 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: The Rolling Stone, You've written for a bunch of People, 19 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: Dallas Voice, a number of different um news websites, magazines, 20 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: and you have been spending a big chunk of the 21 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: last year or so in the streets and Dallas reporting 22 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: on the escalating series of well, hopefully not escalating. I 23 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: guess time will tell on that. But the series of 24 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: right wing UM, I don't even want to I don't 25 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: want to dignify them by calling them protests, but like 26 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 1: right wing organized attempts to intimidate UH and spark violence 27 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: at LGBT events in the DFW area, and some of 28 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: the left wing protest counter against that, which has involved 29 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: groups like the elm Fork John Brown Gun Club, who 30 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: we've had on the show a few times, and has 31 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: involved groups of armed leftists kind of UM in opposition 32 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: to groups of armed right wingers UM. Now, Stephen, the 33 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: specific reason we're talking today is you were just the 34 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: other day part of a panel put on by the 35 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: Cato Institute, which is a libertarian think tank, titled Domestic 36 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: Extremism and Political Violence the Threat to Liberty UM. Your 37 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: fellow panelists were Mike German. Mike is a former FBI 38 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: agent who went undercover against the far right UM and 39 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: now works for the Brennan Center, and Christopher Wiles, who 40 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: is a professor of English and a director of American 41 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: Studies at the University of Connecticut and wrote the u 42 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: s Anti Fascism Reader. Um. Now, this was interesting for 43 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: a number of reasons. Kind of in the lead up 44 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: to this event, the Kata Institute published a graphic that 45 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: showed a number of domestic armed organizations. Um. And so 46 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: in the same graphic you had groups like the Proud 47 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: Boys and Patriot Front, as well as groups like Yellow 48 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: Peril Tactical and the Elm Fork, John Brown Gun Club 49 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: and the Socialist Rifle Association. Prior to the event, this 50 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: sparked a bit of frustration the left and some people 51 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: suspecting that this was going to be kind of geared 52 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: towards attacking left wing armed groups and smearing them, you know, 53 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: as violent extremists in the same way that the Proud 54 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: Boys are. Uh, that is not what happened. Um, And 55 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna open the floor up to you, Stephen, thank 56 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: you for being on the show. Hey, thanks for having me. 57 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 1: And I'm glad that this is not sort of a 58 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: critics criticism session that I'm gonna be sitting with y'all on. 59 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: In terms of yeah, my participation with a hestitate to 60 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 1: even use the word libertarian because of the historical definition 61 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: of the term. But you know, conservative libertarian whatever, big 62 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: L versus small L. I don't. Yeah, we could call 63 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: them a right libertarian think to their rough bodies, right 64 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: like literally founded by rough body. Yeah, they love them 65 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: some Rothbard. Um didn't they like excommunicate him or something, 66 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: though at some point I couldn't. I don't. I'm not 67 00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: deep on the lower One thing, if doing my favorite 68 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: meme with the two hands meeting in the middle middle 69 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: left libertarians and right libertarians have excommunicating members of Murray 70 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: Rothbart is on an io exile Murray Rothbart and Mary 71 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: Books and United and cancelation. So yeah, I guess I'm 72 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: not being canceled, which is good. Um. And so yeah, 73 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: they had reached out to me in September about being 74 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 1: on this panel, and they had mentioned, um, the other guests, 75 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: and frankly, I was intrigued because you know, if people 76 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: want to pay attention to the growing threat of fascism, 77 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: I think that's pretty neat. And it seemed like an 78 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: opportunity to do the thing that Glenn Greenwald claims that 79 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: he does when he goes on Tucker Carlson, which is 80 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 1: like reaching out to an audience that doesn't already agree 81 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: with the things that I think UM, because he just 82 00:04:57,920 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: goes on because their pals and they already all agree. 83 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: So UM, I digress. I thought it was maybe an 84 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: interesting forum, and and I was really interested to hear 85 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: UM from the other panelists, in particular UM, because I 86 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: had looked at what Mike German had written after his 87 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: service in UM the FBI and as well as the 88 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: author of the Anti Fascist Handbook, and I thought, well, 89 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: if if Kato has invited all three of us, it's 90 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,359 Speaker 1: it's not gonna go too off the rails in terms 91 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 1: of UM, you know, sort of the false equivalency problems, 92 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: or it just becoming a session to bash on groups 93 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 1: that aren't really the part of the problem. Interestingly enough, 94 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: the primary amount of bashing that went on was Mike German, 95 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: former f by FBiH, repeatedly viciously criticizing the police and 96 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: the FBI for their complicity with far right street movements. Yeah, 97 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: Mike's been pretty consistent. I spoken this for like a 98 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,559 Speaker 1: couple of years, and I'm sure you people are probably 99 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: aware of his presence by now, but he's been pretty 100 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: consistent on bashing defense for failing to act on white 101 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: supremacy for decades, and it's very It's there's a number 102 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: of reasons this is interesting that we'll we'll be getting 103 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: back into. But I really do recommend people take a 104 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: listen to this conversation between y'all. Among other things, there's 105 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: there's some good history in there. We'll talk about a 106 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: couple of things that got introduced that I don't a 107 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: hundred percent agree with. That there's some good history in there, 108 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: and I think more to the point, you get um 109 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: a lot of updates from your reporting in Dallas and 110 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 1: a lot of kind of summaries of that which I 111 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: find very valuable and think will be valuable to people 112 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: who have maybe been following it less. And then also 113 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: it's really interesting to get Mike's perspective as someone he 114 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: was in it was late eighties, early nineties, he was 115 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: doing a lot of undercover stuff in the West Coast 116 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: and neo Nazi movements, UM, and so hearing him discuss 117 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: the way in which the FBI's programs targeted at the 118 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: far right work and don't work was really interesting to me. 119 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, that was the sort of the side of 120 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: the story that I knew the least about UM. Christopher Viles, 121 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: the professor, the guy who wrote the handbook. UM. You know, 122 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: I think he provided a very important set of historical 123 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: information that kind of helped iron out some of the 124 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: issues in terms of the framing craps and some of 125 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: the inconsistencies which I think we can dive into a 126 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: little bit, or rather inaccuracies that kind of got slipped 127 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: by UM and we weren't really able to address in 128 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: the course of the conversation. But hearing him just put 129 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: it so bluntly kind of took the wind out of 130 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: me in a good way where I was like, I 131 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: don't I don't have anything else to add here, no notes, UM, 132 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: because he really made the point that yes, some of 133 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: these organizations were candon glove with police officers at the 134 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: local level, even at the federal level. He's witnessed it. 135 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: He has a number of experiences that he cited where 136 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: the FBI is basically saying, uh, do not talk about 137 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: your case is involving white supremacists and these similar type 138 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: of groups. Because there are people in the agency who 139 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: are sympathetic UM. And I think that's kind of why 140 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: I ended up on the panel because in part the 141 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: story that I've been covering around here with this harassment 142 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: campaign over the past few months of lgbt Q groups 143 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:27,239 Speaker 1: and events. Part of the story is that policing has 144 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: not really done anything to prevent uh you know, this 145 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: incitement and harassment from continuing and occasionally turning violent. Not 146 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: in the sense of weapons being used other than bear 147 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: me so far, but in the sense the physical violence 148 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: and uh you know, slurs and violent threats being hurled 149 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: at people. Um so, I I think that Mike's points 150 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: for really timely and well said, and frankly, he's the 151 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: kind of person that they needed to come from, because 152 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: as otherwise, they just kind of get smacked away as 153 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: a leftist talking point by people who probably have some 154 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: internal biases or prejudices, prejudices that prevent them from engaging 155 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: with it when it comes from the wrong person in 156 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: the wrong way. And there were a number of interesting 157 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: kind of discussions happening. One thing that I was happy 158 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: about is that, well, the initial framing, I think there 159 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: was a lot of fear that all of these left 160 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: wing groups are going to get lumped in with groups 161 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: that have, to put it bluntly, tried to overthrow democracy. 162 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: Um right, we should point out that that's how the 163 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: FBI does do it, right, like they for instance, the 164 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: group white supremacists with like black identity groups, is racial 165 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: identity extremists or statistics that way like that, That's that's 166 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: how the FEDS see this. But yeah, they didn't, which 167 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: is which is good. It's like a form of obfuscation 168 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: to do so. And um, you know, why would they 169 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: do that. Well, maybe there's a few reasons they might 170 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: do that, especially if you ask someone like Mike. Um. 171 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: And you know, it's such a blind spot for obvious 172 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: the ideological reasons for so many people involved. Yeah, and 173 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: it's it's Um. It was interesting because there was this 174 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: bit in the middle of it where Mike, you know, 175 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: being a former FED, walked through kind of like, well, 176 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: it makes sense to me given the fact that law 177 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: enforcement is is not able to be trusted in a 178 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 1: lot of instances and often is working hand in glove 179 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 1: with these far right groups that want to harm marginalize people, 180 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: that they would seek to arm themselves. Um. And that 181 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: prompted from the the fellow who was actually um kind 182 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: of the organizing the the event, Patrick Eddington, who's a 183 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: senior fellow at the Cato Institute him to point out, 184 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: and he was I would have to say broadly fair um, 185 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: And generally he seemed a little bit kind of um uh. 186 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: He he had this attitude you you get sometimes around 187 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: libertarians where he was like, there was a moment where 188 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: he was like, well, I'm glad some on the left 189 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: to finally started accepting the Second Amendments and stuff like that. Um. 190 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 1: But but he had a he had a moment where 191 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: he expressed a concern, um, which was his fear about 192 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:23,959 Speaker 1: the possibility that if you keep having these events, at 193 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: some point you're going to have two groups of people 194 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: who are armed shoot at each other. Um, which is 195 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: we have We've been right up to that line. You 196 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: have had exchanges of fire, just thinking. In Portland, you 197 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: had a moment where a single right wing individual with 198 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: a handgun fired into a group of people, thankfully didn't 199 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: hit any Two people in the anti fascist side fired 200 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: back and forced him to flee. Um. You had a 201 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: moment earlier this year in Portland where a right winger 202 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,839 Speaker 1: shot into a group of unarmed people doing traffic security, 203 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: killed a sixty one year old woman, wounded I think 204 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: five other people, and then was shot and stopped by 205 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: a leftist. Um, you obviously had um a proud boy, 206 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 1: while a member of Patriot Prayer shot and killed during 207 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 1: an altercation, but not an exchange of fire. The only 208 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: person who fired was the person who killed that that individual. 209 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: So none of those are quite two groups of people 210 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: with guns exchanging fire, you know, in a sustained way. Um, 211 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: none of those even entirely approached kind of what happened 212 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: at like Greensville. But they're all on that spectrum. And 213 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: and while I think this guy there's a degree to 214 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: which he's kind of spooked at seeing leftists with guns, 215 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: I do think that that's a reasonable thing to be 216 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: concerned with, because when and if we hit that point, 217 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: it's going to be an inflection moment for I think 218 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: the entire country. Right right, I think the reality is 219 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: that most normal people, whatever you want to use the 220 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 1: word to describe them, people aren't brain poisoned and plugged 221 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: into the Internet and about all these things or or 222 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: having to deal with them and are affected by them 223 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 1: in real life. They might see these groups and just 224 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: cast them all under the same umbrella. You know, there's 225 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: a good me I chuckled at that came out afterwards, 226 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: where it had had the slide showing on all of 227 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: the groups the right when groups and the left and 228 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: groups sort of armed groups in you know, the United States, 229 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: and then replacing them all with just domestic cleaning products. Like, yes, 230 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: they all have something in common. They have weapons, and 231 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: they're armed to some degree, but beyond that, they all 232 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: have distinctions and we shouldn't drawn equivalency. And I think, 233 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: you know, Mike did a very elegant job of drawing 234 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 1: that distinctionaries as these people not only have a right 235 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: to defend themselves, but they probably have a good reason 236 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: to given all of these things. He was basically writing 237 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: the lyrics to arrage against them en song and um, 238 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: I was a little astonished by that, and he made 239 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: a very clear point to say, like, yeah, there are 240 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 1: people who are aggressors and there are people who aren't. 241 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: We can find a distinction in that. And if we're 242 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: just now getting concerned about this violence, well maybe we 243 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: should ask why we've had such a big blind spot 244 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: for so long. And he got right to the core 245 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: of it. It's these ideologies deeply baked into our institutions 246 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: of white supremacy, right supremacy. UH basically all the way 247 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: back to colonization, and you know, dealing with that is 248 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: necessary for us to deal with the broader problem. And 249 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: I think he was very clear to say, like the 250 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: things that were required to get to that point of 251 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: like a potential shootout would be a total breakdown in policing. 252 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: And so he played place the blame at the feet 253 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: of the police practically said it's there goddamn fault that 254 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: people feel the need to do this, because if they 255 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: just focused on the crimes that proud boys commit in 256 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: the Dallas area, uh, you know, basically minor assaults and stuff, 257 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: they would trace it back to the people that are 258 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: committing them, and they would cut down on these escalations 259 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: because the same people are the ones that show up 260 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: to these events time and time again. It's worth like Robby, 261 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: you're talking about like an inflection point, right And we 262 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: spoke about like failures in policing too. I think part 263 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: of the reason that we see things as super duper 264 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: exceptional right now is the way that we teach history 265 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: in schools here and part of the things we don't 266 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: teach like that this has happened before, right, like the 267 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: Battle of Haze Pond being a paramount example, if we 268 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: look at the like the standoff at Wounded Knee or 269 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: the Second Battle of Woundednee, or whatever you want to 270 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: call it, and throughout the civil rights movement. Right there's 271 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: a book by Rob Williams about a contemporary book about 272 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: the use of firearms and the civil rights movement that 273 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: people can read like all of this stuff did happen then, 274 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: And this same tension that we're feeling now about like 275 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: a society putting itself apart and when it leads to 276 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: a civil war also happened then and people felt this 277 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: then two and we we well, the progress was made 278 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: at that time. We didn't fix everything, right, Like that's 279 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: why we're having this discussion now. But like, I think 280 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: the fact that we've removed so much of that, specifically 281 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: the violence and the use of guns from our discussion 282 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: with the civil rights movement sometimes leads us to see 283 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: what's happening now is like really particularly exceptional, and it's 284 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: not like, yeah, it's always been the case of marginalized 285 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: folks that have resorted to the same tools that are 286 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: used to oppress them to defend themselves. And why wouldn't 287 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: they write, like like Mike said, like Steve said, there's 288 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: a very good and clear reason for oppressed people to 289 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: want to defend themselves and their communities. The only analog 290 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: that we were able to bring up in the conversation 291 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: is like the pink Pink panthers, pink panther control, which was, 292 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: you know, something that a lot of people don't know about. 293 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: And we did get a little bit of opportunity to discuss, 294 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,880 Speaker 1: you know, the black Panthers and how community defense is 295 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: a different set of reasons for arming yourself and having 296 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: knowledge of the Second Amendment and all those sorts of things. 297 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: Then you know, going outside in an event hosted by 298 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: an organization you have no interest in belonging to wearing 299 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: your guns on your body to send a message that's 300 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 1: a very menacing form of free speech. And I think 301 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: another good moment to bring up when we talk about 302 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: this would be the Red Summer of nineteen nineteen, which 303 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: was a series of race riots targeting black people in 304 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: the United States that also involved large groups and communities, 305 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: particularly in cities, of Black Americans taking up arms and 306 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: defending themselves um and and was fairly enormous and it's 307 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: deftal hundreds and hundreds of people were killed. Um, it's 308 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 1: it's really a pretty nightmarish moment in history. But it's 309 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: the thing when you have groups, and we're about to 310 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: have someone on from from Yellow Peril Tactical, when you 311 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: have groups that are specifically organizing and saying like we 312 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: are organizing, we are teaching skills for people to become 313 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: armed because we are afraid that we and people like 314 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: us will be victimized. It's stuff like the Red Summer 315 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: that they're directly looking at. It's not theoretical, you know. Yeah, 316 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: you're Frank Karl from Arranged TV. Have some good videos 317 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: about a lot of these different things if people are 318 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: interested in looking them up. Yeah. Um, and I think 319 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: probably we should bring on our next guest for tonight, 320 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: and and Stephen will be staying on as well. Snow 321 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: from Yellow Peril Tactical. Snow, do you want to introduce 322 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: yourself and your organization for folks who may not be 323 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: as as familiar with the stuff as we are. We 324 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 1: we briefly covered y'all a little bit earlier in this 325 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 1: but yeah, thanks for having me. My name is Snow, 326 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 1: my pronouns the sheet or they, and I am one 327 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: of the many members of Yellow peril tactical. We are 328 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: a collective of leftist Asian Americans under the shared ideology 329 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: of being anti authoritarian um. And we talked about all 330 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: sorts of things, but particularly how to develop firearms skills 331 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: and also community defense and the occasional ship post and uh, 332 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: first questions, because we're talking about this Cato Institute thing 333 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 1: that Stephen was on. Have you had a chance to 334 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: listen to that yet? Since y'all watched it twice I 335 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: have or paid notes? Yeah? Yeah, why why don't we 336 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 1: start here? Yeah? Go off? You know, Okay, Like the 337 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: chat was lit. When we first saw that we were mentioned, 338 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: we were like, wow, we fucking made it because originally 339 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: we started as a ship post account and then we 340 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: were like, oh, people actually care, um. And this is 341 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: just one of those moments where, uh, I don't know, 342 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: it felt like really surreal that Kato would even give 343 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: a funk about us because we do all of this 344 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: in our free time. You know, this is like nobody 345 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: pays us, right, um. And so we had a lot 346 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 1: of skepticism going into it, um. And in a sense, uh, 347 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: we're a bit on the defensive, kind of preparing for 348 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: a lot of false equivalence, rhetoric um, and a lot 349 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: of just like I don't know, maybe like orientalism as well, um, 350 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: just given the history of how like Westerners have viewed 351 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: Asian culture. UM. But ultimately, like the consensus has been 352 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: that we were pleasantly surprised of how balanced it was. 353 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: I thought, overall it was very intriguing, and I got 354 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,640 Speaker 1: some good some good quotes written down, But I don't 355 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: know if you want to go into those now or 356 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: later or what can we start with having I really 357 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: want to like anchor this in having you explained what 358 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: community defense means, like so people can understand why, and 359 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: then we can go from what people say to you. Yeah, UM, 360 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: so earlier y' all we're talking about like, um, the 361 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen riots and actually reminded me of like the 362 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: Pacific Coast Race riots of nineteen seven, and a bunch 363 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: of were like murdering and committing violence against Asian people, right, 364 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: And nineteen oh seven was not that long ago. Um, 365 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: And in a sense it never has gone away. Um. 366 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: And you know, I think, um, Chris Files said it 367 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: like put it nicely when he was like, you know, 368 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: in the backdrop of a lot of anti Asian violence. Um, 369 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: it's just that it's been a lot more prevalent among 370 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: Asians specifically. That doesn't stop you know, like Boba liberalism, 371 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: identity politics from happening where there's not like a grand 372 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: division of like what's going on at large. Um. But 373 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: we know that like our communities are under attack and 374 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: the cops don't give a funk about us, and if anything, 375 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,479 Speaker 1: they just make it worse most of the time. Uh. 376 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: And so it's truly up to us because you know, 377 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: cops don't prevent crime, They come after and they funk 378 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: it up. Um. And it's not something that has come 379 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: easily to me personally. I've been in denial about it 380 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: for a lot of years around thinking like if I 381 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: just avoid going out late at night, if I am 382 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: always walking with a buddy, if I just you know, 383 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: spend twenty minutes looking for a closer parking spot, it'll 384 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: prevent me from being harmed. And ultimately, like that's just 385 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: me being in denial, um. And part of it. Another 386 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: realization is like being strapped, I can seal Carrie every day, 387 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: that's not going to deter someone from attacking me because 388 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 1: of how I look without dosing myself I just look alternative, right, um, 389 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: And knowing that that puts me at risk has never 390 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: deterred me from wanting to express myself with how I look. 391 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: But I know the risks, and that doesn't stop people 392 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: from me. But part of it is like I'm not 393 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: going down without a fucking fight. Like my ancestors have 394 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: come too fucking far. We kicked out the French, we 395 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: kicked out the US, right uh, and now I'm in 396 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: their turf. I've infiltrated the wire. But that doesn't mean 397 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: but you know, it doesn't mean that it's going to 398 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: stop them from harming US. Um. And you know, we 399 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,439 Speaker 1: know that we can't live in a fever dream where 400 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: every single fascist on this planet will be gone. Um. 401 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: But at the very least, like my life goal is 402 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: to make them think twice. And I'm scared a little bit. 403 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: It's interesting because you you bring up sort of what 404 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: I think is a really good point, which is that 405 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: like even if you're if you're in your day to 406 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: day life, the fact that you're carrying a gun isn't 407 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: going to stop somebody from starting, you know, an interaction 408 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: with you that could turn violent because you just look 409 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: the way that you look, I do want to talk 410 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 1: a little bit about what's kind of the opposite thing, 411 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: and it is sort of part of why I think 412 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: folks were a little on edge when this event got 413 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: announced and you know that graphic came out that had 414 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: as we've discussed, the Yellow Peril tactical alongside you know, 415 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: these these these other groups. And there's one of the 416 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: things that kind of results from the way gun culture 417 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: works is that there's a very recognizable kind of um 418 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: uniform um that you see particularly you've seen it with 419 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: the Boogle Boo Boys, you see it with groups like 420 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: the Proud Boys. It's the it's the thing where you've 421 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: got a plate carrier, a belt, you know, an a 422 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: are some other kind of long gun helmets and and 423 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: usually other tactical gear on it um. And this kind 424 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: of this outfit, so to speak, has kind of evolved 425 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: over time. It really is a result of the War 426 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: on Terror, and it's both an aesthetic choice and there's 427 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: a huge number of companies that exist, particularly on the 428 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 1: right to provide people with aesthetic options for kind of 429 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 1: having all of this gear that are are sort of 430 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,199 Speaker 1: ideologically simple simpatica with them UM. But it's also just 431 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: actually a practice. Well, some of this stuff is less 432 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: practical than others, but the basics of the of the 433 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: get up exist because it's what worked. Right. There's one 434 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: of the things people noted when the Taliban took back 435 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: over in Afghanistan is that all of their special operations 436 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: guys were dressed the same way that US fighters, just 437 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: because it's just what works. You see the same outfits 438 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: on Ukrainian and Russian spec ops guys um. And one 439 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,360 Speaker 1: of the things when we when we're looking at kind 440 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: of domestically, when you have people who are organizing and 441 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 1: going out in the world armed as part of a 442 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: public event, is that to people who are not familiar 443 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: with what's going on, it can be hard to tell 444 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 1: them apart sometimes. And that is that strikes me the 445 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: thing that the left particularly needs to deal with because 446 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: both in kind of in the media and also out 447 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: in the field, you don't want to be mistaken for 448 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: groups like the Proud Boys and Steve and I want 449 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: to start kind of with you here because I think 450 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: you're you're reporting has always done a really good job 451 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: of kind of making that difference clear. If you kind 452 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,959 Speaker 1: of have any thoughts on that, and then we'll go 453 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: back to you, Snow. I think that's a really interesting problem, 454 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: the proliferation of tactical UM aesthetics and the ideological sort 455 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: of turn in the production of weaponry and accessories. I mean, 456 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: there's like goddamn tactical eight so the franchises, which is 457 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: making me lose my mind for a number of reasons. 458 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: UM and that is a is a real distinct thing 459 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: that I see all the time around here, and and 460 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: I think there's subtle things at groups do to try 461 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: to distinguish themselves. Obviously are patches, but in order to 462 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: see a patch, you have to be close enough to 463 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: someone in order to even find it legible. So then okay, 464 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: you have flags, but then you also have to know 465 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: what these flags are. Something that some groups around here 466 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: have done when they're you know, sort of protecting an 467 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: LGBTQ event is still have UM flags affiliated with the 468 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: LGBTQ movement, but once again you have to know what 469 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: those are. And one more people know what those are 470 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: these days. So that's a way in order to distinguish themselves. 471 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: But it still takes a second for you to see 472 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: a group of armed people and then process you know 473 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 1: exactly all of these sort of semiotic markers of who 474 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: they are and what they're doing. Um. Because if they 475 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: have a different set of those things, it can be 476 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: a very different set of conclusions that you can walk 477 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 1: away from if you identify them. Uh. And in Texas, 478 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: the right does love carrying these flags and wearing these patches, 479 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: so it makes it very clear who has consistently shown 480 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,239 Speaker 1: up to these events. Um. But like the reaction of 481 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 1: normal people if a group of armed people are leading 482 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: a protest is to kind of be like, what the heck? 483 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: Double take? Maybe they will start filming it because it's 484 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: the craziest thing that they've seen that week. Um. And ultimately, 485 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: you know, they have to kind of know some contextual 486 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,719 Speaker 1: clues in order to even make these distinctions, particularly when 487 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: you're talking about groups like um, you know, John Brown 488 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: Clubs or Yellow Peril, where you're there's concerns around op 489 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: sack or info sack and you don't want to necessarily 490 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: reveal your identities because you're already a part of a 491 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: group that's facing violence at a disproportionate rate and maybe 492 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: you're you know, potentially targeted by the FBI at a 493 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: disproportionate rate, like the former FBI officer interestingly noted during 494 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: the conversation that, yeah, you may have an even harder 495 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: time sort of distinguishing yourself and in making it known 496 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: who you are. UM, So it's an interesting challenge. I 497 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: don't know if I have uh, sort of any lessons 498 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: from it other than that, you know, these classic signifiers 499 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: also seem to work. Sometimes they're kind of kitchy or um, 500 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: you know, seem ridiculous, but it's kind of the same thing, 501 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: like you said about the spec op stuff, like it's 502 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: been used for centuries. Stuff like this has been used 503 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: for a long time because it works because you immediately 504 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: can comprehend is this person with a gun here to 505 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: kill me or to protect me? Yeah? Yeah, that's that's 506 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: really interesting because I I, obviously I have a complicated 507 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: history with flags, but there's few better ways to inform 508 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: other people about what a group of folks is doing 509 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: than having one. Um. Yeah, as long as you're not 510 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: conducting an ambush and that's an offensive maneuver. And then 511 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: suddenly you know, it's like, as long as you're cool 512 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: with being like, we're here and this is what we're doing. 513 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: A flag is exactly the thing that you might want. 514 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: So No. One of the things I've always paid attention 515 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: to and appreciated about yellow perils the way and what's 516 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: y'all social media and y'all's kind of forward face is 517 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: both unapologetically focused on firearms, focused on training, and also 518 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: feels completely different from any of the sort of right 519 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: wing kind of groups that that focus on some of 520 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: the state, even when you're doing stuff that's like videos 521 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: of people shooting and training. UM, do you want to talk? 522 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just anything in general on this subject 523 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: that you've you've felt. But that's something I've always particularly 524 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: noticed about y'all. Yeah, so thank you. UM, we try 525 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: really hard. You should see the group chat um. But 526 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: it's it's something that you know, when historically Asian Asians 527 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: represent it in firearms culture tend to be conservative folks 528 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: who fit within the norm or you know, proximity to whiteness, 529 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: and that's something that we are not at all interested in, UM, 530 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: and we know that comes at a risk. That's why 531 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why are identifiable tattoos are clothing 532 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: and our faces are always blurred. One because we don't 533 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: want cult of celebrity around individuals. UM. But too it's 534 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: like part of that is a lot of folks generally, 535 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: but especially on the right, will kind of have this 536 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: very grandiose, uh I don't know, uh, buffer sense of 537 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: legitimacy just because they have cool you know, video editing, 538 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: they have like the nicest guns, they have a lot 539 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: of guns. Um. And our thing is like, you don't 540 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: need all that. What you do need is to train 541 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,479 Speaker 1: with what you got and are target audience are folks 542 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: who don't know ship about firearms or just getting into 543 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: it and needs some more reputable to go. Um. And 544 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,479 Speaker 1: we take that very seriously, um, because I only got 545 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: into firearms like two years ago, um, and so that 546 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: is fresh in my memory, and I know very well 547 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: what that's like, um and how intimidating it could be. 548 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: So a lot of our work is to try to 549 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: demystify it and really break it down to a way 550 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: that like it doesn't like we don't make people feel 551 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: like they have to be at a certain level already 552 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: to even enter into the firearms world. Like, we want 553 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: to meet people where they're at and encourage people. So like, 554 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: you know, do our drill of the month and like 555 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: tell us your score and then do it next month 556 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: and tell how to tell us how you did better, 557 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: and so it's really encouraging people to get better on 558 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: an individual basis. Um, we encourage people to go out 559 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: with their friends. Um, but we also try to throw 560 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: in like community international solidarity with our fundraisers in there too. 561 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: So it's we try do a lot of different things. 562 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,239 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, like if we 563 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: help just eapen a handful of shooters get better at 564 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: defending themselves or their community, like, it's all worth it. 565 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: Thank you. I want to ask next and I'll ask 566 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: you both again kind of same question. Where do you 567 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: see the armed left moving? Particularly in this next year's 568 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: we kind of get through our last or start go 569 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: through our last blessed year before election. Um, what are 570 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: some things that that are on your radar? What are 571 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: some things that you're sort of expecting to see? What 572 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: are some things that you're worried about? Saying a lot, 573 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: it's a big ques trying to keep it to a year, right, Yeah, 574 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: but you know, I like I worry a lot. I 575 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: try not to get too caught up in it because 576 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: life will surprise you, you know. Um, But I think ultimately, 577 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: like where I live, we are facing down a really 578 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: tight governor race in which if the Republican candidate wins UM, 579 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 1: a lot of work that has been put to you know, 580 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: codify abortion rights, workers rights, things like that, will be 581 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: reversed by this governor um. And it's something that a 582 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: lot of people are worried about, myself included, and where 583 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: I live, even within city limits, there are white supremacists flags, 584 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: Confederate flags even just like a couple of miles from 585 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: my house, and so there's a lot of fear around 586 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: that becoming even more emboldened. Even though we managed to 587 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: fight back a lot and deterred, it doesn't mean that 588 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: they're not taking this moment the right, the fast right 589 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: to restrategize and to recalibrate what they want to do 590 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: next um. And so it kind of feels like we're 591 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: in the calm before the storm. Oh man. Uh, not 592 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: like the J six storm, That's not what I mean, 593 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,959 Speaker 1: but like genuinely what it will actually look like, because 594 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:05,919 Speaker 1: I don't think it's gonna be. I don't think there's 595 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,320 Speaker 1: gonna be Like, you know, we meet at the football 596 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 1: field and we have like our drummers out and like 597 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: our little pipe players out and then we have about it. 598 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: It's gonna be like urban like warfare, is what I think. Um, 599 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: And a lot of other people think that too. And 600 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: you just throw in climate change as a treat like 601 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: we don't know what the literal climate is going to 602 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: be like, um, And so it really just feels like 603 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: there's multiple fronts right now. But it seems like climate 604 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,800 Speaker 1: change or the fascists will kill me before my smoking 605 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: habit will And a lot of people think that too. Yeah, 606 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: I mean I I do anecdotally know a lot of 607 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: people who justify their cigarette use with like, look, there's 608 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: wildfires all around my house. I'm not worried about the 609 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 1: mar Brea's it is. It is October and the city 610 00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: of Portland is blanketed and smoke. I don't know if 611 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: the cagrets are going to get me. Stephen, did you 612 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 1: did you want to go next? Yeah? Well, I mean, 613 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 1: you know, the fact that a ship posting account gained 614 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: some traction, maybe there's hope yet. Um, I don't know, 615 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 1: but ship posting will save us in the end. It's 616 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: it's another one on the board for ship posting. Let's 617 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: put it that way. So looking forward to what are 618 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: we dealing with well, Texas is uh deep in it 619 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: right now. Um, we're one of the sort of laboratories 620 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: of fascism in the United States at the moment, sort 621 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: of a spear tip of a lot of really bad 622 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: stuff really just like you know, codifying in the state, 623 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 1: oppressive things, things that they just talk about in other states. Um. 624 00:36:55,680 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: And so yeah, our governor's race, uh basedly it doesn't either, 625 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: you know, kind of split things because our lieutenant governor 626 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: runs independently of the governor, and you know, the House 627 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: is a whole other thing. Yeah, if it goes far right, um, 628 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 1: which a ton of money has been spent, billions and 629 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: billions from people in the industry that's primarily responsible for 630 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: destroying the planet, are um, pushing that to make it happen, 631 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 1: and so that all works their way, then yeah, we're 632 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 1: probably going to get some uh seriously bad laws, really 633 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: bad state sponsored violence, a variety of forms. And yeah, 634 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: people are already thinking to themselves like do I want 635 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: to live in this state anymore? Um? But that's also 636 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: basically what the extreme people on the right want is 637 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 1: to either just get rid of these people one way 638 00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: or another. Um. And so some people don't want that Obviously, 639 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 1: some people don't have a choice to leave because it's 640 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: expensive to move and they may be tied to their 641 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:11,720 Speaker 1: families and other sorts of things. So, uh, I don't 642 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: like to predict the future because history is we keep 643 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 1: pumping shells into it and it keeps getting back up, 644 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: and uh, it's just gonna happen, and I don't really 645 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: know exactly. I just I'm very thankful that there are 646 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: people and groups in my state that are trying to 647 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,840 Speaker 1: protect vulnerable people, um, and people working to hopefully make 648 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 1: it not super bad. Um. So I think like the 649 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 1: optimistic view is that it won't be all totally terrible horrible, 650 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: but it'll be still kind of same, same, you know. Yes, Yeah, 651 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: that's kind of like how I see broad speaking, you know, 652 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,879 Speaker 1: the big projection cone. Otherwise, UM, I'm not sure. Yeah, 653 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 1: it's gonna be fucked up, but at least we'll have friends. 654 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,439 Speaker 1: Hopefully it'll be wavy and it will be about the 655 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 1: friends that we make along the way. Yeah, I do 656 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 1: either of you have anything else you'd like to to 657 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: talk about or or or bring up or say before 658 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,399 Speaker 1: we kind of bring this to a close. I guess 659 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 1: I'm just like I was kind of surprised how decent 660 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: that the panel went. Um. You know, the anti fascist 661 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: coalition can be broad because it is a sort of 662 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: anti thing. It's not necessarily positivist. But you know, maybe 663 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,320 Speaker 1: that's another episode to describe, you know, why it's important 664 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: to also perhaps have a positivist message along with what 665 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: you're trying to do in response to fascism. Um. And 666 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: you know, like more discussions like this hopefully will happen, 667 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 1: and I think they could be improved by like not 668 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,880 Speaker 1: all four panels being white dudes. That would probably be helpful. 669 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 1: Um as a thought. Yeah, uh well, yeah that that 670 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: was actually the first thing I wrote on my my 671 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 1: note page is that it was for for what I 672 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 1: should have said that earlier, So you never, I'm just playing. 673 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 1: But I think one thing I want to add is like, 674 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 1: similar to what you were saying, Stephen, was kind of 675 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,399 Speaker 1: like what is the pro positive thing? And ultimately like 676 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: to me, it's like the city that I live in, 677 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 1: there's a lot of decentralized mutual aid groups that got 678 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people through the pandemic and still provide 679 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:42,120 Speaker 1: daily relief to people consistently. Like I'm in like a 680 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 1: million fucking signal chats where people post a need and 681 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 1: it gets met eventually. UM. And it's like I'm pro 682 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 1: that mutual aid and like it's something that I mean, 683 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:56,759 Speaker 1: maybe it's the only thing that will really get us 684 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,279 Speaker 1: through whatever is to come. UM. And that's just like 685 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 1: pro commune to be building UM and coalition building whatever 686 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: that looks like in your community. Maybe if we want 687 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:09,719 Speaker 1: to talk about mutual aid, you can. I know, you 688 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:11,400 Speaker 1: guys do a lot of fundraiser I think that's a 689 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 1: really cool thing. Certain distinguishes you from a lot of 690 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 1: other gun clubs. So maybe do you want to talk 691 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 1: about a couple of those, Maybe plug those? You know, 692 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 1: I would plug our Fondward patches, but we just sold 693 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:27,399 Speaker 1: out of the second patch. It's a it is. We 694 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,840 Speaker 1: didn't think people would care that much, especially the first round, 695 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,800 Speaker 1: and so the second round we only ordered a hundred 696 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,760 Speaker 1: and it's pulled out in a day. Those are supporting 697 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 1: the resistance in Myanmar, right, Yes, yes, people are getting 698 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,279 Speaker 1: them by donating directly to liberate me and mar and 699 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 1: then someone sends them a cool forward patch. UM. And 700 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,279 Speaker 1: it's one of many fundraisers we've done. We recently have 701 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 1: done a couple for folks in Ukraine. UM, we helped 702 00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 1: them fund an ambulance out there. UM. I can't remember 703 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 1: the Instagram handle right now. UM. We've also done a 704 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,799 Speaker 1: bunch for like a group in Portland for example, Black 705 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,760 Speaker 1: and Beyond the Binary. UM. I think we've done to 706 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 1: actually for Liberate Me and mar UM. But it's just 707 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 1: something that you know, we don't do this for money, 708 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 1: and we also want to support other groups doing things 709 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: that we support, especially like popular fronts that are fighting 710 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,319 Speaker 1: back against authoritarian regimes UM and hoping that you know, 711 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 1: if ship hits the fan here, that people will do 712 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 1: that for us to UM, because we really value international 713 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,320 Speaker 1: solidarity and you know, as corny as it is, we're 714 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 1: you know, we're like we got us, you know, we 715 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: fend us, not George Soros, but UM, you know it's 716 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: something that brings us joy to be able to help 717 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 1: and UM, as mostly anarchists, we really believe that, like 718 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,279 Speaker 1: we are all that we have and we can't wait 719 00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: for someone else to to you know, a benefactor to 720 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 1: come and save us, because that ship is just not 721 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,439 Speaker 1: going to happen. Yeah, it's great. WHA can folks find 722 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,600 Speaker 1: you on the into web? They want to follow along. 723 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:12,840 Speaker 1: We can find us on Instagram at Yellow dot Peril 724 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: dot Practical. You have to spell it out, I think, 725 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,280 Speaker 1: because I think we're shadow band right now. Our Twitter, 726 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:25,839 Speaker 1: regrettably is ypt actual. We also have a website just 727 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,960 Speaker 1: Yellow Peril Tactical dot com. We just took it so 728 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,759 Speaker 1: no one else could. Um, but that's where you can 729 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 1: mainly find us. We are primarily on Instagram, um, but 730 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 1: most of our stuff is on Twitter. If you really 731 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 1: want to see a ship post, go on Twitter. We 732 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,720 Speaker 1: recently got into it with this person and Oregon over 733 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,080 Speaker 1: the gun control measure. Um, and let me tell you 734 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 1: it was a heat but also a little like maddening 735 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,880 Speaker 1: because this guy, this guy actually ties into how we 736 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 1: opened the episode because he was he's a local liberal 737 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 1: uh thought leader guy who uh saw two pictures of 738 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 1: people with guns, one of them being fascists and one 739 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 1: of them being one of y'all and was like, clearly 740 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:18,239 Speaker 1: these are the same thing. Um, it was a good 741 00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: time vote no on one fourteen in my opinion, uh, 742 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:25,920 Speaker 1: if you're in the state of Oregon. But we'll talk 743 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,839 Speaker 1: about that at a later point. Stephen Um, you want 744 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 1: to plug you first off, obviously really good work, UM 745 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,080 Speaker 1: on the panel. I want to plug that for folks 746 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 1: because I think it is really worth a listen. Um, 747 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,320 Speaker 1: as everyone is here said, there's a lot of good 748 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 1: historical information in there and uh and and your contributions 749 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,080 Speaker 1: are invaluable, So folks can check that out. If you 750 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,600 Speaker 1: just google Cato Institute Domestic Extremism and Political Violence, you'll 751 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,040 Speaker 1: find it. And how else can people find you? Stephen? 752 00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:01,799 Speaker 1: You can also find me on Twitter. UM, I will 753 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:06,280 Speaker 1: make sure that my handle is there. It's at Steve 754 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:10,799 Speaker 1: van Zetti. Ste van Zetti as in the you know, 755 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,359 Speaker 1: one of the two that got killed by the state unjustly, 756 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: um because it's anti Italian discrimination, so UM I digress um. 757 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,800 Speaker 1: The you can find me there. Prodian is obviously something 758 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 1: that I work with, and I would say check that 759 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 1: out as well. It's at Prodi and mag uh that 760 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:34,680 Speaker 1: has a website Prodian mag dot com. Um and anything 761 00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,359 Speaker 1: else that you want to know about me you can 762 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:40,200 Speaker 1: either find on Twitter or Google. There's really only like 763 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:44,920 Speaker 1: two guys named Stephen Monticelli in the entire state United States, 764 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,400 Speaker 1: and the other ones like a c P A in 765 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,920 Speaker 1: his sixties, So it's just not that one. Um, and 766 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:55,319 Speaker 1: yeah you can find me there. Excellent. Um, well I'm 767 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,240 Speaker 1: glad we got to end on a Sacco and Vanzetti reference. 768 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:09,440 Speaker 1: And uh yeah, everybody go help somebody. It Could Happen 769 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,799 Speaker 1: Here as a production of cool Zone Media. For more 770 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,600 Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone 771 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:16,480 Speaker 1: media dot com, or check us out on the I 772 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,880 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 773 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 774 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:26,080 Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks 775 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:26,640 Speaker 1: for listening.