WEBVTT - Part One: The Phil Spector Episodes

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<v Speaker 1>Also media, Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, Ladies, gentlemen,

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<v Speaker 1>gentle bems, h and all points in between. This is

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<v Speaker 1>a podcast about the very worst people in all of history,

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<v Speaker 1>and normally it's a podcast where I, the host, Robert Evans,

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<v Speaker 1>read a story about the very worst people in all

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<v Speaker 1>of history to a guest who generally comes in cold,

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<v Speaker 1>not always. Yeah. Yeah, I've been doing this eight years.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you know the drill, thunk.

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<v Speaker 2>You've figured it out by now. Even I know the

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<v Speaker 2>drill by now.

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<v Speaker 1>And regular listeners will recognize the voice of my dear

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<v Speaker 1>friend Greasy Will, the Grammy Award winning Greasy Will.

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<v Speaker 3>Hey, fuddy, what's up?

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<v Speaker 4>How's it going. I'm very excited to be here and.

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<v Speaker 2>Today if you we are going to flip the rolls right,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm gonna tell you about about somebody who's very

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<v Speaker 2>near and dear to my a bastard of the music industry.

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<v Speaker 4>And I'm very excited about this.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I have a question first, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Greasy, Well,

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<v Speaker 3>who I love my buddy. Uh do you know where

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<v Speaker 3>this is being streamed right now?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh?

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<v Speaker 4>We are we well on Netflix?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, our good buddy Greasy Will here. The second we

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<v Speaker 3>announced that we were going to be streaming video episodes

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<v Speaker 3>on Netflix, commented sellouts, So what does that make you?

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<v Speaker 1>That's what I my friend of fifteen years.

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<v Speaker 4>When I was a.

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<v Speaker 2>Kid, being a sellout was an insult. But now, as

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<v Speaker 2>an adult the world that we're in, being a sellout

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<v Speaker 2>just means you successful.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, it's exciting for me.

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<v Speaker 3>Just means you get to buy the good produce.

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<v Speaker 1>Are there other ways I made money in the path

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<v Speaker 1>that I might have preferred more? Are there different ways

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<v Speaker 1>to you know? This is the this is the future

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<v Speaker 1>we've been given.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, look you're talking to a guy who All right,

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<v Speaker 2>So I have a course, a recording course that I made,

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<v Speaker 2>and recently I posted this ad that I had made

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<v Speaker 2>with a high quality camera like the one you're viewing

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<v Speaker 2>me on right now.

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<v Speaker 4>If you are in fact viewing.

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<v Speaker 2>Me, I high quality camera and all the comments where

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<v Speaker 2>people like greasy and high death is weird.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't like it, So welcome.

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<v Speaker 3>To our lives.

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<v Speaker 2>Specifically, like I do not do high quality in anything

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<v Speaker 2>I do in music, I mean in anything.

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<v Speaker 1>It's perfect well, because I've reached the peak of my

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<v Speaker 1>success as a professional in an audio medium. And you

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<v Speaker 1>also reached the peak of your success as a professional

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<v Speaker 1>in an audio medium. Yes, and the powers that be,

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<v Speaker 1>in their wisdom, decided we got to put these guys

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<v Speaker 1>on TV. People need to see their faces. For some reason,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. When we moved to Netflix, a surprising

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<v Speaker 1>number of people were just based on confusion or based

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<v Speaker 1>on the fact that it changed from YouTube, were like,

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't realize that many people were watching the podcast, right,

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<v Speaker 1>But we have. We've been working on it. We have

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<v Speaker 1>gotten it to where audio episodes of the show are

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<v Speaker 1>back on YouTube music. So if you listen to the

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<v Speaker 1>show that way, I know there was there was confusion.

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<v Speaker 1>Things got disrupted there for a while, but from now

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<v Speaker 1>on that should be normal. And initially a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>our international viewers were cut out because it was Netflix

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't letting it wasn't our show wasn't available internationally.

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<v Speaker 4>Damn region specific broadcasts. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Now our show is available on most of the places

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<v Speaker 1>that Netflix serves.

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<v Speaker 3>Worldwide, baby Vietnam and Korea for reasons I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>So the Aussie's out there, you can you can watch

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<v Speaker 1>now if you've got Netflix. I don't know. Again of

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<v Speaker 1>the audience listens because it's a fucking podcast. So hopefully

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<v Speaker 1>none of this should be changing for most of you.

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<v Speaker 1>Who are we hearing about today? Will who? What piece

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<v Speaker 1>of shit are you going to tell me about? I know?

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<v Speaker 4>But so let me ask you this. Let me ask

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<v Speaker 4>you this first.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh, if you had a mount rushmore of horrible music

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<v Speaker 2>people right like whoever you.

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<v Speaker 4>Could think of? Who? Who's Who's your George Washington.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's gotta be Michael Jackson, because Michael's the perfect

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<v Speaker 1>mix of that man's music. You simply can't cut his

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<v Speaker 1>music out of popular culture and have it make sense.

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<v Speaker 1>There's too big a gap like his he he made,

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<v Speaker 1>the impact he made is there, and a bunch of

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<v Speaker 1>his music is immortal and also definitely raped a bunch

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<v Speaker 1>of kids.

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<v Speaker 4>Ton of Yes, just like my bas bastard.

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe yeah, I can give I can give my four?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, go ahead, Sophie.

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<v Speaker 3>My four, Michael Jackson, R Kelly P. Diddy and the

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<v Speaker 3>subject of this episode.

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<v Speaker 4>That's all right.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm gonna tell y'all, I don't think the subject

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<v Speaker 2>of my episode makes it on on the Bastard's uh

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<v Speaker 2>a mount rushmore iry And here's.

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<v Speaker 4>And here's why. Here's why.

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<v Speaker 2>Because you you want to hear because number one is

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<v Speaker 2>Ian Watkins. Do you guys know who Ian Watkins is? No,

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<v Speaker 2>Ian Watkins was recently just actually I was going to

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<v Speaker 2>bring this up even before, but Ian Watkins was recently

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<v Speaker 2>murdered in prison. Because they don't like those those types

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<v Speaker 2>of people who do those things to infants.

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<v Speaker 1>Infants.

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<v Speaker 2>He was the singer Lost, Yeah, he was the singer

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<v Speaker 2>of Lost Prophets and.

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<v Speaker 1>This guy.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, So it was interesting that you might because I

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<v Speaker 2>do have a question in my overall thesis in discussing

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<v Speaker 2>this person is when is it bad enough to cut

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<v Speaker 2>somebody out?

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<v Speaker 4>And when does their music overshadow.

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<v Speaker 2>The big the big picture, right, because we so often

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<v Speaker 2>in the music industry, we we will give people weird passes.

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<v Speaker 2>Weird people get weird passes just because they're good at something.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, they're good at making noise. That's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>ridiculous to me. I do not I do not think

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<v Speaker 2>that makes a lot of sense.

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<v Speaker 1>But people, really, you're allowed to molest fifteen years, yes, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>or younger.

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<v Speaker 4>So our subject today is somebody who I think is.

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<v Speaker 2>Horrible, and you will hear a lot of evidence to

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<v Speaker 2>uh to that effect, back that up. Yes, But but

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<v Speaker 2>our subject today is Phil Spector, Phil Spector.

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<v Speaker 4>Do you know about Phil Spector at all? Like? What

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<v Speaker 4>do you know about?

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<v Speaker 1>Here's here's how much I know about Phil Spector. In

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<v Speaker 1>order to even listen to this podcast, I had to

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<v Speaker 1>make make sure I had a gun on me like

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<v Speaker 1>that Christ, because I know Phil's bringing one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, Phil is definitely bringing a gun to the

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<v Speaker 2>party for sure.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, all right, let's do it.

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<v Speaker 4>This will be our episode today.

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<v Speaker 2>We're we're we're gonna talk about Phil Spector.

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<v Speaker 4>Boom, cold open. Done. We did it.

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<v Speaker 1>We're done, We're opened.

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<v Speaker 3>Look at you, prettiest girl at the party. I love it?

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<v Speaker 2>All right, are you guys ready to hear about Phil Spector?

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<v Speaker 1>I was born ready, well, actually I was born bloody

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<v Speaker 1>with the cord wrapped around my neck, but also ready.

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<v Speaker 2>What were you? Were you in fact a cord baby?

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<v Speaker 2>That explains a lot.

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<v Speaker 4>I think I don't remember.

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<v Speaker 1>I was in labor for like seventy hours. Something was

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<v Speaker 1>wrong with me.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I think I was.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she had a chip on her shoulder about that.

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<v Speaker 1>It might have just been forty eight hours. It was

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<v Speaker 1>like a long time.

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<v Speaker 3>And and and in perfect comparison of our relationship. My

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<v Speaker 3>mom was in labor with me for less than an hour.

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<v Speaker 2>I think my mom had me inside of the back

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<v Speaker 2>of a pickup truck, but I don't know, like a camper.

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<v Speaker 4>Maybe I think, yeah, yeah, you can.

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<v Speaker 1>You are one of my friends most likely to be

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<v Speaker 1>born inside of a pickup truck. My god, Yes, it

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<v Speaker 1>was an honor.

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<v Speaker 2>So first off, I want to say, uh, this is

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<v Speaker 2>why I picked Phil Spector, and because I am in

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<v Speaker 2>personally a very big fan of his work. It is

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<v Speaker 2>it has informed a lot of my work as a musician,

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<v Speaker 2>as a producer, as an engineer. I I love Phil

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<v Speaker 2>Spector's work. To me, it was it was so groundbreaking

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<v Speaker 2>for the time for many reasons. And there's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of like future of music that came from where he

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<v Speaker 2>was at, you know. And I like to do that

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<v Speaker 2>game of like, oh well, I like the Beatles, and

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<v Speaker 2>the Beatles were really influenced by like what Brian Wilson

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<v Speaker 2>and the Beach Boys were doing.

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<v Speaker 4>And Brian Wilson loved Phil Spector.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, And so it's like, if you are a Beatles fan,

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<v Speaker 2>you not only have heard Phil Spector's work, you've also uh,

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<v Speaker 2>you've also like been influenced by him indirectly through them

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<v Speaker 2>loving you know, the chain of command that it was

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<v Speaker 2>right or chain of Cutso yeah, yes, yes, so Harvey

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<v Speaker 2>Phillips Spector. His name was not phil original Harvey.

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<v Speaker 4>Harvey was his name.

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<v Speaker 2>Harvey Phillip Spector was born on December twenty sixth, nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>thirty nine, in the Bronx, New York. That's at least

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<v Speaker 2>what the birth record say. His mom claimed that he

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<v Speaker 2>was born on Christmas Day because she honestly and truly

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<v Speaker 2>I think maybe believe that he was the second coming

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<v Speaker 2>of Christ.

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<v Speaker 4>That was actually like she was just really really like indo.

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<v Speaker 1>So okay.

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<v Speaker 2>He he had an older sister, Shirley, and an older

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<v Speaker 2>brother who died just days after being born, who was

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<v Speaker 2>born just before him, which is a bit why he

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<v Speaker 2>got the ultimate Jewish mother protection system going on over

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<v Speaker 2>him for his whole childhood.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so he is. He is wrapped up. There's a

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<v Speaker 1>wall between him and the real world.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, absolutely absolutely.

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<v Speaker 2>There are unconfirmed theories regarding Specter's extended family structures. Some

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<v Speaker 2>biographical accounts suggests his parents may have been closely related,

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<v Speaker 2>possible even first cousins, though this has never been definitively proven,

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<v Speaker 2>but he said it all the time.

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<v Speaker 4>He would tell people this. He'd be like, my parents

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<v Speaker 4>were cousins.

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<v Speaker 2>It was like, all right, like I guess randomly at

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<v Speaker 2>like lunch on a Tuesday or something, he's bringing this

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<v Speaker 2>stuff up. Oh yeah, yeah. What is well documented is

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<v Speaker 2>that both sides of his family were Jewish immigrants whose

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<v Speaker 2>families fled. Let's take a break real quick, Robert, Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>you want to playing guess the country his Jewish relatives

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<v Speaker 2>had to escape in the late eighteen hundreds to early

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen ones.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna go with Poland.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh so close, very close, very close. Uh pot, probably

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<v Speaker 2>we don't know exactly, but probably Belarus or oh yeah yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>or or Ukraine to Ukraine to possible.

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<v Speaker 4>So, yeah, you're you're in the right the right area.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of people who are like, I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>exactly what country they were in, and part because it

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<v Speaker 1>was several years over the period of time they lived there.

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<v Speaker 2>That's literally the description that's most often given is Eastern Europe.

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<v Speaker 4>They fled Eastern Europe.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he lived under three or four governments.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So you know, this is a very

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<v Speaker 2>classic early nineteen hundred's American tale of you know, Jewish

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<v Speaker 2>immigrant families leaving their country because of the anti Semitic

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<v Speaker 2>programs going on, and then coming to America, settling in

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<v Speaker 2>New York in a very Jewish neighborhood, or being surrounded

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<v Speaker 2>by other Jews who had.

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<v Speaker 4>Escaped these same situations.

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<v Speaker 2>So obviously some generational trauma going on for sure to

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<v Speaker 2>start off, and also family trauma and also some questionable

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<v Speaker 2>things going on with his mother already, you know.

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<v Speaker 4>As far as her mental stability is.

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<v Speaker 2>So. As a child, Specter was described as overweight and

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<v Speaker 2>physically fragile. He struggled with recurring health problems and was

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<v Speaker 2>often encouraged to stay indoors rather than participate in sports

0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:02.600
<v Speaker 2>or outdoor activities. Developed a strong dislike for beaches, athletics

0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:06.439
<v Speaker 2>and physical competition, and any environment where he felt exposed

0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:11.360
<v Speaker 2>and inadequate. Over time, his body changed. Yeah, yeah, he

0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:12.199
<v Speaker 2>hates beaches.

0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:17.240
<v Speaker 3>Yes, that's my favorite bit of that old thing. He's like, yeah,

0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.120
<v Speaker 3>you know what, I hate beach. You are not Ken,

0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:22.480
<v Speaker 3>Phil Spector. Your job is not beach.

0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.040
<v Speaker 4>Okay, no joke.

0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.320
<v Speaker 2>Like multiple times throughout any of the biographies that you

0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.240
<v Speaker 2>read about him, it's brought up that he doesn't like beaches,

0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.480
<v Speaker 2>specifically beaches. He's like, oh yeah, Phil wouldn't go to

0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:36.199
<v Speaker 2>Venice because there was a beach close by.

0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:40.320
<v Speaker 4>Like he was like mad about it, all right, brouh.

0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.520
<v Speaker 2>As he entered adolescent, he lost weight dramatically, and he

0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.880
<v Speaker 2>became notably small and slight in stature. Instead of solving

0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:51.559
<v Speaker 2>his insecurities, this transformation reinforced them. He remained physically unimposing,

0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:54.640
<v Speaker 2>ill suited for sports, and deeply self conscious about his

0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:58.400
<v Speaker 2>appearance and masculinity. As an adult, he would always joke that,

0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:00.920
<v Speaker 2>like when they were picking sports teams that he was he.

0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:01.920
<v Speaker 4>Wanted to be the manager.

0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:04.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm the manager of the team today, you know, like

0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:06.679
<v Speaker 2>right from because he's like, I'm not gonna I'm gonna

0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:07.520
<v Speaker 2>play sports.

0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:08.480
<v Speaker 4>Is ridiculous.

0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:10.120
<v Speaker 3>What a weird little guy.

0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.920
<v Speaker 2>When Phil was nine years old, his father, Benjamin Specter,

0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:19.480
<v Speaker 2>died by suicide. Oh yeah, we are going to have

0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:24.400
<v Speaker 2>some classic bastard style empathy to start off our show today.

0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:27.520
<v Speaker 1>He's having a difficult start of things.

0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:29.600
<v Speaker 4>Yes, he's had it, he's had it rough.

0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:31.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure this won't make him a monster.

0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:34.040
<v Speaker 4>Spoiler alert.

0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.200
<v Speaker 2>Uh, his dad killed himself, So basically the stories.

0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:40.560
<v Speaker 4>His dad left, left the factory.

0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:42.840
<v Speaker 2>He was like a metal worker, and he left the

0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:47.400
<v Speaker 2>factory and started driving home and just parked a couple

0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:50.320
<v Speaker 2>of blocks away, put a hose in his tailpipe and

0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:55.040
<v Speaker 2>started sucking on some carbon monoxide fumes in his uh,

0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.720
<v Speaker 2>in his car. Yeah, and they don't know, they don't

0:13:57.760 --> 0:13:59.920
<v Speaker 2>really even know why he did it, Like he had

0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.920
<v Speaker 2>financial stress, but you know he was done.

0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:04.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, it was.

0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.040
<v Speaker 2>It was the right time for that to be a

0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:11.640
<v Speaker 2>normal thing, you know, uh, financial stress, business failures, depression,

0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:14.200
<v Speaker 2>they've all been cited possible mental illness as well, Like

0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.120
<v Speaker 2>there seems to be a very strong prevalence of that

0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:21.760
<v Speaker 2>in Phil's life. Whatever the cause, the event shattered the

0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:26.800
<v Speaker 2>whole family, right, so Bertha Specter becomes the central force

0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.120
<v Speaker 2>in Phil's life, tightening a grip on her son's emotional

0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:32.840
<v Speaker 2>and developmental trajectory. Alongside it was Phil's older sister, Shirley,

0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:35.640
<v Speaker 2>who would exhibit as much control over his issues over

0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.440
<v Speaker 2>Phil as his mother did. Both of them would emotionally

0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.600
<v Speaker 2>abuse Phil often. His mother would often disparage his father

0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:44.960
<v Speaker 2>and blame young Phil for his death. So she's like

0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:48.360
<v Speaker 2>over there, like, your your dad killed himself. Because of you.

0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.160
<v Speaker 2>Before you, he was happy, and then you came along,

0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:52.360
<v Speaker 2>and then he killed.

0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:55.280
<v Speaker 1>Him, and the best thing for kids, right, giving you

0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:59.080
<v Speaker 1>that sense of agency, and you killed your dad, and

0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:03.560
<v Speaker 1>you anything you put your mind to, including kill your parents,

0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.200
<v Speaker 1>which you already did, right.

0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:12.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, very impressive, bro, I couldn't kill my parents, all right.

0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:16.280
<v Speaker 2>So she treated his father's death as a source of

0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:18.880
<v Speaker 2>family shame as well too, So it was like she

0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.120
<v Speaker 2>never told the truth about it to anybody, Like if

0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:23.360
<v Speaker 2>she met somebody and they're like, oh, oh, he's off

0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:25.840
<v Speaker 2>in Europe on business, or he died in the war.

0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.720
<v Speaker 2>Like she's always like just making up other things and

0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:31.160
<v Speaker 2>not saying, oh, yeah, he, you know, killed himself for whatever,

0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:32.760
<v Speaker 2>which I mean, I guess I kind of.

0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:33.560
<v Speaker 4>Understand, you know.

0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:35.640
<v Speaker 2>It's not like I'm like, yeah, dude, mom, step mom

0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:37.320
<v Speaker 2>killed herself, which is facts, you know.

0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.320
<v Speaker 4>I guess I just did announce it to the world. Nevermind.

0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.680
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, obviously not a great start to life. He's

0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.600
<v Speaker 2>fall he's frail, he's his dad kills himself. His mom

0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.320
<v Speaker 2>and his sister are both super possessive and controlling over him.

0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:57.160
<v Speaker 2>Pretty bastard'sy start to the story. Not long After Benjamin's death,

0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.160
<v Speaker 2>Bertha relocated the family across the country to Los Angeles.

0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:03.320
<v Speaker 2>This is where Phil decides he absolutely hates being called

0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:04.560
<v Speaker 2>Harvey and he starts going.

0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:06.520
<v Speaker 4>By his middle name Phil Cool.

0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:07.120
<v Speaker 1>All right.

0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:11.160
<v Speaker 2>The move placed them in the predominantly Jewish neighborhood of Fairfax,

0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:13.920
<v Speaker 2>which this is just a stupid little aside, but all

0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:15.760
<v Speaker 2>the kids called it, like in the neighborhoods called it

0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:17.880
<v Speaker 2>fairy facts because it was like like.

0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:19.680
<v Speaker 4>The weakest school around.

0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:22.120
<v Speaker 2>They were like, so he's like the he's like the

0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:24.280
<v Speaker 2>weakest kid at the weakest school.

0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:25.480
<v Speaker 4>Right, Yeah, they're.

0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.000
<v Speaker 1>Calling his school. They're basically calling his school gay, and

0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.000
<v Speaker 1>like the parlance of the times.

0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:32.440
<v Speaker 3>She was absolutely not true when I was in high

0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:34.920
<v Speaker 3>school because Fairfax beat our ass at basketball.

0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:37.840
<v Speaker 1>It's good to hear the thing.

0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:41.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if it's turns out money does something

0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:46.320
<v Speaker 2>long term shocking. So Phil struggled to make friends outside

0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.280
<v Speaker 2>a small circle of family and school acquaintances, and he

0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:53.320
<v Speaker 2>remains socially awkward and intensely sensitive and deeply dependent on

0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:57.880
<v Speaker 2>maternal approval, obviously on account of his mom and the

0:16:57.920 --> 0:16:58.560
<v Speaker 2>way she is.

0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.359
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, the mommy is his only.

0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:04.720
<v Speaker 2>Advancement into social normalcy came as a result of his musicianship.

0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:07.359
<v Speaker 2>He was said to be able to play any song

0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:09.600
<v Speaker 2>that you heard on the hear it on the radio

0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.600
<v Speaker 2>and could play it immediately like he could just drew start,

0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:15.120
<v Speaker 2>like playing along before the song even finished.

0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:15.560
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.880
<v Speaker 2>During this time, Phil found himself his first real girlfriend,

0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:23.400
<v Speaker 2>a girl named Donna Cass Donna believed. Donna recalled Phil

0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.760
<v Speaker 2>being very intelligent but intensely possessive. He would call to

0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.760
<v Speaker 2>places he believed she was and question the people there

0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.320
<v Speaker 2>about her whereabouts, and when he found her, he would

0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.359
<v Speaker 2>grill her about what she'd been doing. Right, She said

0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.680
<v Speaker 2>she believes this was his nature because it was what

0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:42.320
<v Speaker 2>Bertha and Shirley did to him whenever he was at home. Right,

0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.200
<v Speaker 2>she said, this is from Breaking Down the Wall Sound.

0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:46.960
<v Speaker 2>By the way, this will be my primary source for

0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:52.199
<v Speaker 2>almost everything. Nick Brown wrote an amazing book, Breaking Down

0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:52.880
<v Speaker 2>the Wall of Sound.

0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:54.040
<v Speaker 4>It's really really good.

0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:57.200
<v Speaker 2>We'll touch on some stuff about it later, but that

0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:01.560
<v Speaker 2>and Ronnie Spector's book, which was Be My Baby, which

0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:05.080
<v Speaker 2>is amazing. I highly recommend reading the audio or hearing

0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.960
<v Speaker 2>the audio book of that because it's narrated by Rosie Perez.

0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.520
<v Speaker 2>Which is, oh my god. Yeah, it's amazing to listen

0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.320
<v Speaker 2>to Rosie Perez narrate this whole story because she's like,

0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:18.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, she's like, you know, she's got that whole thing.

0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:19.200
<v Speaker 4>It's amazing. It's really good.

0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:20.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:23.560
<v Speaker 2>From breaking down the Wall of Sound quote to Donna,

0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:25.919
<v Speaker 2>it was as if Bertha and Shirley saw her as

0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:29.000
<v Speaker 2>a rival for Phil's affections, who was trying to steal

0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:32.280
<v Speaker 2>him away from them. She says, I always felt they

0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:34.600
<v Speaker 2>were in love with him or something. They treated him

0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:37.720
<v Speaker 2>like he was a god. They protected him, and they

0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:41.679
<v Speaker 2>wanted to protect him from me weird. So so this

0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:46.159
<v Speaker 2>is like fifteen, sixteen years old, he's already intensely like

0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.520
<v Speaker 2>they barely even had phones, and this dude is calling around,

0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.879
<v Speaker 2>checking on his girlfriend everywhere she goes and like making

0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.320
<v Speaker 2>sure her story matches at like, you know, into like

0:18:55.400 --> 0:19:00.240
<v Speaker 2>fifteen right, unhinged. I think it's you know, yeah, Well,

0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:02.840
<v Speaker 2>and here's the thing is this is something that I

0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:05.160
<v Speaker 2>think is a lot of musicians are weirdos.

0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:07.760
<v Speaker 4>Right, It's like there's a certain thing that goes along.

0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.960
<v Speaker 2>With being a weirdo and being like that kind of

0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.880
<v Speaker 2>musical genius that people can like that you can hear

0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.040
<v Speaker 2>a song and you know, and play it the first

0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.680
<v Speaker 2>time you heard it, right, there's something that's like kind

0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:21.760
<v Speaker 2>of hand in hand with the two personalities that kind

0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:24.040
<v Speaker 2>of seem to go together a lot of times. So

0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:26.440
<v Speaker 2>it's not weird to be weird, right, It's not weird

0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.119
<v Speaker 2>to be small, it's not weird to be skinny. It's like,

0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:31.120
<v Speaker 2>I know a lot of those people in the music industry,

0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:35.920
<v Speaker 2>but it is weird to be possessive and and shitty,

0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:38.399
<v Speaker 2>you know, and like and treat you know, and have

0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:41.760
<v Speaker 2>a pattern against women, which we'll see in this in

0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:46.320
<v Speaker 2>this whole thing. So during his teenage years in Los Angeles,

0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.080
<v Speaker 2>Specter became obsessed with guitars. Barney Kessel one of the

0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:53.080
<v Speaker 2>most respected and accomplished session musicians working in the recording industry.

0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:55.240
<v Speaker 2>Kessel was a jazz guitarist, but it will often go

0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:57.120
<v Speaker 2>on to play pop hits of the day and eventually

0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:59.680
<v Speaker 2>became part of the legendary Wrecking Crew. If you know

0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.280
<v Speaker 2>about out Hollywood music in this time, the Wrecking Crew

0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:05.840
<v Speaker 2>is everything they wrote, they played on every single song

0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:08.320
<v Speaker 2>in the late fifties and early sixties all the way

0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:09.560
<v Speaker 2>to the seventies pretty much.

0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:11.920
<v Speaker 4>They were the band you heard in the back of it.

0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:15.440
<v Speaker 2>So Phil respected in both for his mastery of jazz

0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.399
<v Speaker 2>and his seamless transition to other genres. At one point,

0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.960
<v Speaker 2>Specter was given the opportunity to meet his idol. The

0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:25.240
<v Speaker 2>meeting did not unfold as he had imagined. Bertha his

0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:29.600
<v Speaker 2>mother insisted on accompanying him during the conversation with his idol.

0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:31.359
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Bertha, she does it.

0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:31.640
<v Speaker 5>Man.

0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:36.919
<v Speaker 2>During the conversation, she begins questioning Kessel about career prospects,

0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:41.040
<v Speaker 2>financial stability, practical viability, like a career in music, all

0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:43.720
<v Speaker 2>this stuff. It's like like yeah, He's like he's there.

0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:45.600
<v Speaker 2>He's like, yeah, dude, I get to meet this guitarist,

0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:47.879
<v Speaker 2>this legend. And she's like, well, what's the money like

0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:52.280
<v Speaker 2>in the job? You know, Like she's just taking over

0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:56.359
<v Speaker 2>control of this whole conversation, and Phil's just so embarrassed.

0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:58.719
<v Speaker 2>Like this goes from being like, Oh, I get to

0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:03.360
<v Speaker 2>meet my hero and to like, I'm just really embarrassed.

0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:06.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm really embarrassed that I'm sitting here having this conversation

0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:08.920
<v Speaker 2>and this is just this is his mom. His mom

0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:11.520
<v Speaker 2>is in control of his life at all times. He's

0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:13.960
<v Speaker 2>always he's always stuck with that.

0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:17.760
<v Speaker 1>That's yeah, Okay, I did not realize, like knowing about

0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.679
<v Speaker 1>like the later stage of Phil Spector's life, somewhat I

0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:24.320
<v Speaker 1>did not realize he started out dominated by his mom

0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:25.800
<v Speaker 1>to such an extent that.

0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:29.320
<v Speaker 4>Yes, that does. It ain't a scan, it does kind

0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:29.680
<v Speaker 4>of scan.

0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:33.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, I mean it's not always true, right,

0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:34.960
<v Speaker 2>It's like a lot of times, a lot of times

0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:38.320
<v Speaker 2>people are just shitty people, right, But a lot of times,

0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:39.960
<v Speaker 2>if you look into it, it is kind of like

0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:41.919
<v Speaker 2>when your dad when you're little, like, oh, he's just

0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:44.080
<v Speaker 2>beating you up because he's got a shitty home life

0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:46.159
<v Speaker 2>and he's trying to So a lot of sometimes that

0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:46.600
<v Speaker 2>is true.

0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:48.520
<v Speaker 4>Sometimes they're just bullies, you know.

0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:50.880
<v Speaker 2>But sometimes they just they got a shitty home life

0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:53.400
<v Speaker 2>and they're dealing with something that you can't possibly understand.

0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:59.440
<v Speaker 2>So by the mid nineteen fifties, Specter began forming musical

0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:03.240
<v Speaker 2>groups with classmates and neighborhood friends. Eventually, he helped create

0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:05.800
<v Speaker 2>a vocal trio called the Teddy Bears, consisting of Phil

0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:09.080
<v Speaker 2>and That Climbard and Marshall leab Teddy. The group formed

0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:13.040
<v Speaker 2>the Teddy Bears, Yeah and that's such a nineteen fifties

0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:15.080
<v Speaker 2>name too, Yeah, you know, yeah it is.

0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:19.120
<v Speaker 4>So the group formed through teenage friendships.

0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:20.960
<v Speaker 2>They all went to the same school or whatever, and

0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:23.919
<v Speaker 2>like they knew each other and so it was like

0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:28.440
<v Speaker 2>just a very high school organic situation, right. But then

0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:33.440
<v Speaker 2>Phil's sister Shirley forced her way into the.

0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:34.960
<v Speaker 4>Band as a manager.

0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:38.199
<v Speaker 2>Right, She like immediately is like, as soon as they

0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:42.199
<v Speaker 2>start having any success whatsoever, she forces her way into

0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:44.679
<v Speaker 2>into the whole situation as the manager. And then when

0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:45.920
<v Speaker 2>Phil's like, no, I don't want you to be in

0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:48.720
<v Speaker 2>a managery, Mom's like, let him be the manager, pel,

0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:54.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, like immediately, yeah, immediately like takes his sister's side.

0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:57.440
<v Speaker 2>So and she has no idea what she's doing, of course,

0:22:57.560 --> 0:23:00.000
<v Speaker 2>so like she makes horrible decisions all over the place.

0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:03.359
<v Speaker 2>She's doing dumb stuff. But Phil is still He's the

0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:05.879
<v Speaker 2>architect of this whole thing. And he he writes this

0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:09.320
<v Speaker 2>amazing song right in nineteen fifty eight, well still in

0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:11.720
<v Speaker 2>high school, Spector wrote and produce a song title to

0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Know Him is to Love Him. This is where I'll

0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:16.879
<v Speaker 2>make my first entry and do evidence of Phil was

0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:19.480
<v Speaker 2>seriously fucked up, Like I had some fuck that was.

0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:22.120
<v Speaker 2>He was fucked up, right, This is where we're gonna

0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:24.560
<v Speaker 2>get into. Phil was seriously fucked up, Sophie, can you

0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:27.920
<v Speaker 2>show Robert the image of the gravestone there?

0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:32.560
<v Speaker 1>Yep, Okay, I'm saying it. Yeah. Ben Spector April twentieth,

0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:38.679
<v Speaker 1>nineteen forty nine, father husband, Yeah, hell yeah, brilliant. To

0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:40.479
<v Speaker 1>know him was to love him?

0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:44.439
<v Speaker 2>What was that? The name of Phil's song there was

0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:46.040
<v Speaker 2>To know him is to love him?

0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:47.520
<v Speaker 4>Philo.

0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:50.680
<v Speaker 1>Phil wrote, he doesn't have daddy issues. He's doing good.

0:23:50.760 --> 0:23:51.720
<v Speaker 1>He's fine.

0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:56.640
<v Speaker 2>Phil. Phil wrote a song and he talks later. He says,

0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:58.680
<v Speaker 2>this is this song is about death. You know, this

0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:02.600
<v Speaker 2>is a song about death, and nobody noticed because it's

0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:05.200
<v Speaker 2>framed in the nineteen fifties kind of you know.

0:24:05.359 --> 0:24:07.679
<v Speaker 4>To no, no.

0:24:09.280 --> 0:24:12.640
<v Speaker 2>Yes, very silly, but he had you know, nobody else

0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:14.680
<v Speaker 2>gets it. But if you listen to it, it's like, oh, okay, yeah.

0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:16.720
<v Speaker 3>You were kind of like a huge fucking hit.

0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:18.879
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it was a huge hit. It was a huge hit.

0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:19.800
<v Speaker 4>It's very big deal.

0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:24.679
<v Speaker 2>It became a massive national hit, reaching number one on

0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:30.600
<v Speaker 2>Billboard charts. Part of its success came from side Bastard's appearance.

0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:37.080
<v Speaker 2>Dick Clark American Bandstand. Yes, that's right. Dick Clark is

0:24:37.119 --> 0:24:39.760
<v Speaker 2>a side bastard today. I'm not going to get deep

0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:42.960
<v Speaker 2>into him, but he basically invented Paola. People would pay

0:24:43.040 --> 0:24:46.760
<v Speaker 2>him to put bands on American Bandstand and it because

0:24:46.800 --> 0:24:49.560
<v Speaker 2>of him, like literally, like the that's what got out

0:24:49.600 --> 0:24:52.800
<v Speaker 2>of control eventually and caused like the biggest, you know,

0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:54.720
<v Speaker 2>one of the biggest scandals in the music industry for

0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:57.360
<v Speaker 2>the longest times. Like you have to pay in order

0:24:57.440 --> 0:25:02.760
<v Speaker 2>to become successful. Yeah, thanks for creating that.

0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:04.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:25:04.520 --> 0:25:07.760
<v Speaker 2>Uh so the success was astonishing, right given the band's youth.

0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:10.360
<v Speaker 2>Phil is only seventeen at this time. He's a he's

0:25:10.359 --> 0:25:15.080
<v Speaker 2>a baby, right, So it's it's massive. Like Sophy said,

0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:16.919
<v Speaker 2>it was a number one hit across the country. It

0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:19.879
<v Speaker 2>was a huge song. Even today, it's still like a

0:25:20.160 --> 0:25:22.159
<v Speaker 2>kind of a big song like that. I looked up

0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:24.560
<v Speaker 2>and had like a couple hundred million streams or something.

0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:28.399
<v Speaker 2>It was insane. This experience kind of cemented because he

0:25:28.560 --> 0:25:31.520
<v Speaker 2>was the architect of this whole thing. He was the

0:25:32.240 --> 0:25:35.080
<v Speaker 2>boss of this whole situation. So this kind of cemented

0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:37.840
<v Speaker 2>like his like dominance in the studio. This is what

0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:40.040
<v Speaker 2>made him want to He was the producer on it.

0:25:40.119 --> 0:25:42.600
<v Speaker 2>At seventeen years old, you have a number one hit

0:25:42.680 --> 0:25:45.000
<v Speaker 2>in the country, your ego is probably gonna go a

0:25:45.040 --> 0:25:49.760
<v Speaker 2>little yeah, you know, yeah, it's certainly not so. But

0:25:50.359 --> 0:25:52.440
<v Speaker 2>this is where I'm gonna hit item number two. I

0:25:52.520 --> 0:25:54.120
<v Speaker 2>Phil Spector was seriously fucked up.

0:25:54.200 --> 0:25:56.800
<v Speaker 3>But before you do that, as the boss and the

0:25:56.840 --> 0:25:58.879
<v Speaker 3>producer of this podcast, you know what time it is.

0:25:59.320 --> 0:26:02.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh shit is advertised or some advertisse and you.

0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:07.880
<v Speaker 1>Know what none of our sponsors did is raise Phil Spector.

0:26:08.080 --> 0:26:11.560
<v Speaker 1>I feel confident saying that none of our advertisers helped

0:26:11.600 --> 0:26:15.000
<v Speaker 1>helped raise Phil Spector fairly certain I believe it.

0:26:15.160 --> 0:26:16.080
<v Speaker 4>I was really.

0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:17.159
<v Speaker 3>Curious where you were going with that.

0:26:17.760 --> 0:26:27.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and we're back. Ah boy. I sure love those

0:26:28.040 --> 0:26:30.479
<v Speaker 1>ads from I don't know, probably the Portland Police Bureau

0:26:30.480 --> 0:26:31.840
<v Speaker 1>and then some AI company.

0:26:32.760 --> 0:26:35.119
<v Speaker 4>I wish you'd get sponsored by a whiskey company. That

0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:35.760
<v Speaker 4>would be nice.

0:26:35.840 --> 0:26:39.159
<v Speaker 1>No, I wish I'll take your whiskey. I'll tell people

0:26:39.200 --> 0:26:42.600
<v Speaker 1>to drink it. I have no problem telling people, you know,

0:26:42.760 --> 0:26:46.199
<v Speaker 1>to to drink. There's no health consequences to that. You know,

0:26:46.320 --> 0:26:47.840
<v Speaker 1>it's a lot healthier than gambling.

0:26:48.560 --> 0:26:51.000
<v Speaker 2>I actually tried it, like I was doing social media

0:26:51.000 --> 0:26:52.600
<v Speaker 2>for a little while where I was doing cocktails with

0:26:52.640 --> 0:26:55.560
<v Speaker 2>greasy like as like a thing, hoping like some company

0:26:55.560 --> 0:26:58.399
<v Speaker 2>would be like, hey, this guy's do an alcoholic content.

0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:01.840
<v Speaker 4>Work though that was the only reason to do it.

0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:04.480
<v Speaker 2>I literally just was like some free booze, you know, like,

0:27:04.760 --> 0:27:06.240
<v Speaker 2>let's subsidize this control.

0:27:06.760 --> 0:27:09.240
<v Speaker 1>You're just you're just throwing out like a fishing line

0:27:09.280 --> 0:27:11.440
<v Speaker 1>and hoping a brand picks up so you can drink

0:27:11.480 --> 0:27:12.080
<v Speaker 1>for free.

0:27:12.680 --> 0:27:13.760
<v Speaker 4>That's all I've ever wanted.

0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:18.480
<v Speaker 1>That's how the internet works. Now, all right, where are we?

0:27:18.880 --> 0:27:23.480
<v Speaker 2>All right? So, while on tour, Specter was allegedly cornered

0:27:23.920 --> 0:27:30.879
<v Speaker 2>by hostile individuals who mocked and humiliated him about being short,

0:27:31.160 --> 0:27:34.320
<v Speaker 2>being a nerd, being being short and nerdy, I mean.

0:27:35.640 --> 0:27:38.040
<v Speaker 1>Just being short and having glasses will cause you some

0:27:38.160 --> 0:27:38.800
<v Speaker 1>serious shit.

0:27:39.680 --> 0:27:43.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so keep in mind too, like this is important.

0:27:43.800 --> 0:27:46.680
<v Speaker 4>He at adulthood was probably only like.

0:27:47.000 --> 0:27:50.760
<v Speaker 2>Five three, Like he did not I say he was little, geez,

0:27:50.840 --> 0:27:55.480
<v Speaker 2>he was real little, right, So, like, we don't know

0:27:55.480 --> 0:27:58.800
<v Speaker 2>if this story is true. It's very mythological bullshit type stuff.

0:27:58.840 --> 0:28:00.639
<v Speaker 2>But we don't know if this story is true, but

0:28:00.720 --> 0:28:04.360
<v Speaker 2>it absolutely if it is true, it makes a lot

0:28:04.400 --> 0:28:07.960
<v Speaker 2>of sense about who he would later become he was

0:28:08.359 --> 0:28:14.199
<v Speaker 2>physically restrained and urinated on during the encounter. The precise

0:28:14.280 --> 0:28:17.480
<v Speaker 2>details vary depending on the source, and it's like kind

0:28:17.520 --> 0:28:19.480
<v Speaker 2>of multiple biographies reference it.

0:28:19.560 --> 0:28:21.520
<v Speaker 4>He said it. He told this story later on.

0:28:21.960 --> 0:28:24.360
<v Speaker 1>He's like ganged up on by a bunch of guys

0:28:24.359 --> 0:28:26.439
<v Speaker 1>outside of a show who are making fun of him

0:28:26.440 --> 0:28:28.400
<v Speaker 1>because he's a short, little nerd, and they like hold

0:28:28.480 --> 0:28:29.399
<v Speaker 1>him down and piss on him.

0:28:29.480 --> 0:28:33.040
<v Speaker 2>It sounds like I think he's in the bathroom when

0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:35.359
<v Speaker 2>it happens. You like, like he goes in to go

0:28:35.359 --> 0:28:37.119
<v Speaker 2>to the bathroom after a show and they like attack

0:28:37.200 --> 0:28:40.520
<v Speaker 2>him in the bathroom or whatever. It's very like nineties

0:28:40.600 --> 0:28:42.960
<v Speaker 2>like teen high school movie type situation.

0:28:43.520 --> 0:28:47.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, it's a hairy type deal. If heathers or

0:28:47.760 --> 0:28:50.840
<v Speaker 1>something like that's intense bullying. Yeah, they're pissing you.

0:28:51.560 --> 0:28:52.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:28:52.680 --> 0:28:55.680
<v Speaker 2>If the story is accurate, it appears to have deeply

0:28:55.720 --> 0:28:56.360
<v Speaker 2>scarred him.

0:28:56.640 --> 0:28:59.240
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, would Yeah, that's pretty bad.

0:28:59.560 --> 0:29:02.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, especially when you think, like imagine where he's at

0:29:02.440 --> 0:29:05.680
<v Speaker 2>in this whole situation, Like he thinks he's.

0:29:05.640 --> 0:29:07.600
<v Speaker 4>Like made it, like he's on top of the world.

0:29:07.640 --> 0:29:10.360
<v Speaker 2>He's got a number one hit in and he's got money,

0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:13.200
<v Speaker 2>he's got success. People all over the country are seeing him,

0:29:13.200 --> 0:29:15.240
<v Speaker 2>come to see him play shows, and he just goes

0:29:15.280 --> 0:29:17.760
<v Speaker 2>to the bathroom, like walking off stage, probably one night,

0:29:17.960 --> 0:29:21.200
<v Speaker 2>and he gets jumped in the bathroom and pissed on,

0:29:21.560 --> 0:29:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Like that's.

0:29:23.840 --> 0:29:26.440
<v Speaker 1>Yike, Yeah, number on you. I think it's gonna make

0:29:26.480 --> 0:29:27.720
<v Speaker 1>him a better guy.

0:29:28.080 --> 0:29:31.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely, definitely not gonna make him a nice person.

0:29:32.080 --> 0:29:35.400
<v Speaker 2>All right. So, despite the group's success, fractures quickly appeared

0:29:35.400 --> 0:29:37.800
<v Speaker 2>within the Teddy Bears, and that Klimbard used her earnings

0:29:37.840 --> 0:29:40.280
<v Speaker 2>from the hit record to purchase a car, and not

0:29:40.640 --> 0:29:43.240
<v Speaker 2>long afterwards, she was involved in a serious accident that

0:29:43.320 --> 0:29:46.680
<v Speaker 2>left her hospitalized for an extended period. So she gets

0:29:46.680 --> 0:29:49.120
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of money, she gets a nice car.

0:29:49.680 --> 0:29:52.920
<v Speaker 1>She got one of those six fifty sixties cars. That's

0:29:52.960 --> 0:29:56.480
<v Speaker 1>just it's steel. There's no seat belts the car. All

0:29:56.520 --> 0:29:58.880
<v Speaker 1>of the force of the impact is transferred to you.

0:29:59.120 --> 0:30:03.959
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, probably pre dating like like the National Traffic Safety

0:30:03.960 --> 0:30:06.480
<v Speaker 2>Board like requiring seatbelts by like twenty years.

0:30:06.480 --> 0:30:08.880
<v Speaker 4>At this point, I feel, yeah, I don't know.

0:30:09.280 --> 0:30:12.440
<v Speaker 2>So she gets in this horrible accident, and this is

0:30:12.520 --> 0:30:14.280
<v Speaker 2>kind of the nail in the coffin for the group.

0:30:14.320 --> 0:30:17.720
<v Speaker 2>But you know, she's and that says that, well, she's

0:30:17.720 --> 0:30:19.800
<v Speaker 2>in the hospital, she gets in this horrible accident, and

0:30:19.840 --> 0:30:22.200
<v Speaker 2>Phil doesn't call her or come by or anything. He

0:30:22.320 --> 0:30:25.280
<v Speaker 2>just that's it. That's just the end. She just he

0:30:25.400 --> 0:30:27.520
<v Speaker 2>just leaves, He just goes away, and that's it. There's

0:30:27.560 --> 0:30:31.200
<v Speaker 2>no band anymore, you know. So they're like high school friends.

0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:34.480
<v Speaker 2>This is very strange, you know, to like, uh see

0:30:34.840 --> 0:30:37.120
<v Speaker 2>to get this, you know, this far successful with your

0:30:37.160 --> 0:30:39.160
<v Speaker 2>high school friends. And there's no incident and it's not

0:30:39.200 --> 0:30:42.000
<v Speaker 2>like they didn't get along or anything like that. They

0:30:42.320 --> 0:30:45.560
<v Speaker 2>were all friends. And then he was just like, deuces,

0:30:45.640 --> 0:30:46.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm out of here.

0:30:46.480 --> 0:30:48.720
<v Speaker 3>Well do you think it like she could no longer

0:30:48.920 --> 0:30:51.480
<v Speaker 3>provide use to him? You think it was something like that,

0:30:51.720 --> 0:30:53.320
<v Speaker 3>or we really can't even speculate.

0:30:53.480 --> 0:30:56.640
<v Speaker 2>I think I think you're right on the path, Sophie.

0:30:56.640 --> 0:30:59.640
<v Speaker 2>I think you will find as we continue on. Anytime

0:30:59.680 --> 0:31:04.160
<v Speaker 2>somebody he stops serving their their usefulness to him, Phil

0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:05.920
<v Speaker 2>is done with him.

0:31:05.960 --> 0:31:07.280
<v Speaker 4>He just wipes them from his life.

0:31:07.400 --> 0:31:11.920
<v Speaker 6>Very friends, which spoiler alert, is the next person we're

0:31:11.920 --> 0:31:15.120
<v Speaker 6>going to talk about, Lester Sill Leicester sil This is

0:31:15.480 --> 0:31:18.320
<v Speaker 6>right after this time or during this time, and this

0:31:18.360 --> 0:31:20.880
<v Speaker 6>is when he made friends and a partnership with Lester Sill.

0:31:21.200 --> 0:31:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Lester Still was a decorated World War Two veteran who

0:31:23.920 --> 0:31:26.080
<v Speaker 2>fought in the Battle of the Bulch. He made his

0:31:26.160 --> 0:31:28.680
<v Speaker 2>way into the music industry after that. And despite what

0:31:28.800 --> 0:31:32.360
<v Speaker 2>you think, actually the nicest guy. Everybody's like, oh dude,

0:31:32.400 --> 0:31:34.800
<v Speaker 2>Susie walks in the room, he's the best. I love

0:31:34.880 --> 0:31:38.080
<v Speaker 2>this guy, you know, like this is like this is

0:31:38.160 --> 0:31:39.160
<v Speaker 2>like if.

0:31:39.000 --> 0:31:41.160
<v Speaker 1>You lived through the Battle of the Bulge, it's hard

0:31:41.200 --> 0:31:44.800
<v Speaker 1>to get like bent out of shape about the little things.

0:31:46.240 --> 0:31:47.000
<v Speaker 4>One would assume.

0:31:47.000 --> 0:31:50.360
<v Speaker 2>But also I met a lot of very disgruntled war

0:31:50.520 --> 0:31:53.760
<v Speaker 2>veterans in my time, and I've been like, why are

0:31:53.800 --> 0:31:56.719
<v Speaker 2>you guys so mad? Bro, just like I don't know,

0:31:57.880 --> 0:31:59.760
<v Speaker 2>get an addiction that helps out or something.

0:32:00.600 --> 0:32:02.920
<v Speaker 1>Get an addiction. That's always my advice to be.

0:32:05.320 --> 0:32:09.120
<v Speaker 2>So Lester took a liking to Phil and assumed a

0:32:09.160 --> 0:32:12.680
<v Speaker 2>fatherly role in his life. So uh, he like really

0:32:12.720 --> 0:32:15.320
<v Speaker 2>does step into Phil's life. Him and Bertha and Phil

0:32:15.680 --> 0:32:18.320
<v Speaker 2>start having problems at home. He lets Phil move in

0:32:18.360 --> 0:32:18.920
<v Speaker 2>with him. You know.

0:32:19.360 --> 0:32:22.320
<v Speaker 4>Uh. He gives them connections, he tell he introduces them

0:32:22.320 --> 0:32:22.640
<v Speaker 4>to people.

0:32:22.640 --> 0:32:26.240
<v Speaker 2>He tells everybody, this is this this killer of producer Phil,

0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:28.280
<v Speaker 2>Like he just like helping him out anywhere. And he

0:32:28.400 --> 0:32:31.880
<v Speaker 2>even sends him to Phoenix. I believe it was to

0:32:32.040 --> 0:32:34.920
<v Speaker 2>meet Lee Hazelwood. Lee Hazelwood at this time is a

0:32:34.920 --> 0:32:38.120
<v Speaker 2>really successful writer. He would later go on to write, Uh,

0:32:38.240 --> 0:32:42.200
<v Speaker 2>these boots are made for walking, which oh my girl,

0:32:42.520 --> 0:32:44.720
<v Speaker 2>said Sinatra, She's so beautiful.

0:32:44.720 --> 0:32:47.240
<v Speaker 1>That's one of the finest achievements of our species.

0:32:47.320 --> 0:32:48.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that song.

0:32:49.400 --> 0:32:51.800
<v Speaker 2>So he sends him to hang out with Lee Hazelwood,

0:32:52.040 --> 0:32:58.080
<v Speaker 2>and Lee Hazelwood hates him. Hazelwood, It's like this motherfucker

0:32:58.120 --> 0:33:01.320
<v Speaker 2>won't stop asking questions. He he's always like doing stuff.

0:33:01.360 --> 0:33:04.640
<v Speaker 2>He's like he's weird and he's just always around me and.

0:33:04.600 --> 0:33:05.400
<v Speaker 4>I don't like him.

0:33:05.480 --> 0:33:07.920
<v Speaker 2>And and he tells him never bring him back to

0:33:08.000 --> 0:33:08.400
<v Speaker 2>my studio.

0:33:08.440 --> 0:33:09.720
<v Speaker 4>I never want to see that guy again.

0:33:09.880 --> 0:33:15.360
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Okay, So so this is the kind of seems

0:33:15.400 --> 0:33:17.960
<v Speaker 2>like a pattern as we'll start to like emerge here.

0:33:18.040 --> 0:33:21.080
<v Speaker 4>Is that like either you love Phil or you are

0:33:21.120 --> 0:33:22.600
<v Speaker 4>like okay.

0:33:22.400 --> 0:33:23.200
<v Speaker 3>Guy, Yeah?

0:33:23.280 --> 0:33:27.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like yeah, that guy's the worst. So after this,

0:33:27.920 --> 0:33:30.240
<v Speaker 2>he moves on to a relationship with another girl. So

0:33:30.280 --> 0:33:32.600
<v Speaker 2>he breaks up with Donna cass or whatever. He moves

0:33:32.640 --> 0:33:35.240
<v Speaker 2>on to a relationship with another girl, Lynn Castle, but

0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:37.600
<v Speaker 2>it was short lived, as she couldn't stand as incessant

0:33:37.600 --> 0:33:42.200
<v Speaker 2>to interrogations. This quote, his behavior got too friggin crazy, too,

0:33:42.240 --> 0:33:43.440
<v Speaker 2>absolutely crazy.

0:33:43.680 --> 0:33:46.480
<v Speaker 4>Where are you what are you doing? Where are you going? Controlling?

0:33:47.320 --> 0:33:48.320
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, that sounds right.

0:33:49.080 --> 0:33:54.800
<v Speaker 2>So this is clearly a pattern. He is absolutely controlling.

0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:58.640
<v Speaker 2>He's like definitely trying to like, uh.

0:33:57.840 --> 0:34:00.320
<v Speaker 1>That's basically what I knew about Phil Spectra going into

0:34:00.320 --> 0:34:02.560
<v Speaker 1>this is that he was like super controlling in his

0:34:02.600 --> 0:34:06.120
<v Speaker 1>professional and personal relationships. Yeah, that's kind of all I know.

0:34:06.440 --> 0:34:08.399
<v Speaker 4>And that is that is exactly it.

0:34:08.920 --> 0:34:11.480
<v Speaker 2>And we'll we'll we'll get more into like this professional

0:34:11.560 --> 0:34:14.840
<v Speaker 2>side of this too, but it is it is alarming early,

0:34:15.280 --> 0:34:18.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, and like Sophie, we brought this up earlier.

0:34:18.160 --> 0:34:20.800
<v Speaker 2>It is like it's like letting people get away with stuff,

0:34:20.840 --> 0:34:22.880
<v Speaker 2>and how long can they get away with it? You know?

0:34:23.320 --> 0:34:26.200
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, and it seems like, I mean, it's the fifties,

0:34:26.280 --> 0:34:28.560
<v Speaker 2>so let's be fair, like this is still the time

0:34:28.600 --> 0:34:31.799
<v Speaker 2>where or like early sixties. This is definitely the time

0:34:31.840 --> 0:34:34.959
<v Speaker 2>where like like jokes on TV were like your wife

0:34:35.120 --> 0:34:37.239
<v Speaker 2>was talking to watch give her the old one four

0:34:37.280 --> 0:34:40.239
<v Speaker 2>of the eye, you know, like right, you know, like

0:34:40.239 --> 0:34:44.480
<v Speaker 2>the honeymooners are like actively like like to the moon.

0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:48.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, bang zoom straight. It's it's like an aspect of

0:34:48.120 --> 0:34:50.960
<v Speaker 1>like yeah, because it's just like so common and universal

0:34:51.000 --> 0:34:51.439
<v Speaker 1>at the time.

0:34:51.520 --> 0:34:54.400
<v Speaker 3>Right, I hear somebody else do an old timey voice

0:34:54.400 --> 0:34:55.680
<v Speaker 3>besides Robert, because.

0:34:55.520 --> 0:34:59.799
<v Speaker 4>Robert is so good straight moon as that's good.

0:35:00.960 --> 0:35:02.400
<v Speaker 1>I love Archie Bunkers.

0:35:02.440 --> 0:35:04.520
<v Speaker 4>Shit, it's great you.

0:35:05.200 --> 0:35:07.960
<v Speaker 1>It is two different It's interesting the two different kinds

0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:11.879
<v Speaker 1>of reactions to Oh, I keep like doing things I'm

0:35:11.920 --> 0:35:14.160
<v Speaker 1>not supposed to be doing and I haven't gotten in

0:35:14.160 --> 0:35:16.799
<v Speaker 1>trouble yet because like, the two reactions are the one

0:35:17.040 --> 0:35:19.239
<v Speaker 1>the one I have had about things that I won't

0:35:19.239 --> 0:35:21.960
<v Speaker 1>talk about on air, where at a certain point, more

0:35:22.040 --> 0:35:24.480
<v Speaker 1>than whatever the statute of limitations as it go, I

0:35:24.560 --> 0:35:27.000
<v Speaker 1>was like, I'm gonna stop doing this. Done this too

0:35:27.040 --> 0:35:29.480
<v Speaker 1>many times. I'm not gonna keep taking this risk anymore.

0:35:30.000 --> 0:35:32.319
<v Speaker 1>Like I've gotten lucky, but I feel like I'm gonna

0:35:32.320 --> 0:35:33.680
<v Speaker 1>stop rolling the dice on this.

0:35:34.680 --> 0:35:36.799
<v Speaker 2>I did. I feel the exact same way every time

0:35:36.880 --> 0:35:40.480
<v Speaker 2>my registration on my car goes more than eight months

0:35:40.480 --> 0:35:43.920
<v Speaker 2>out of date, when I'm like, all right, eight months,

0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:44.920
<v Speaker 2>that's a long time.

0:35:44.840 --> 0:35:47.719
<v Speaker 1>To be There's three years I didn't register in my car, right, yeah,

0:35:47.719 --> 0:35:50.200
<v Speaker 1>stuff like that where it's like that probably now I'm

0:35:50.200 --> 0:35:53.240
<v Speaker 1>gonna were shoplifting, where it's like I've had enough money

0:35:53.280 --> 0:35:55.680
<v Speaker 1>now I'm not gonna keep taking the risk. And then

0:35:55.719 --> 0:35:58.080
<v Speaker 1>other people who are like, no one's called me on

0:35:58.160 --> 0:36:01.319
<v Speaker 1>my shit, guess I'm gonna get even crazier. And then

0:36:01.440 --> 0:36:02.560
<v Speaker 1>they become the president.

0:36:03.120 --> 0:36:10.680
<v Speaker 2>No reason to stop now, all right, So spoiler alert

0:36:10.719 --> 0:36:13.000
<v Speaker 2>on Phil. He doesn't get any better. This is right,

0:36:13.400 --> 0:36:17.080
<v Speaker 2>this is his pattern. He keeps going, but they do

0:36:17.160 --> 0:36:19.840
<v Speaker 2>break up. Him and Land break up, and he starts

0:36:19.880 --> 0:36:21.680
<v Speaker 2>expressing desire to relocate back to.

0:36:21.640 --> 0:36:23.040
<v Speaker 4>New York City.

0:36:23.120 --> 0:36:25.799
<v Speaker 2>New York offered something that he really wanted, which was

0:36:25.920 --> 0:36:29.120
<v Speaker 2>proximity to a legitimacy. In New York at the time,

0:36:29.200 --> 0:36:32.880
<v Speaker 2>there is a building called the Brill Building, and we're

0:36:32.920 --> 0:36:35.320
<v Speaker 2>gonna tell you, well, I'll just read because it's better

0:36:35.400 --> 0:36:38.760
<v Speaker 2>to read than in summarize. I think Spector quickly embedded

0:36:38.800 --> 0:36:42.239
<v Speaker 2>himself in the Brill Building ecosystem, the highly competitive songwriting

0:36:42.280 --> 0:36:45.120
<v Speaker 2>and production factory that produced some of the most influential

0:36:45.160 --> 0:36:48.719
<v Speaker 2>pop music of the era. The environment was famously ruthless.

0:36:48.800 --> 0:36:52.560
<v Speaker 2>Young writers turned out songs daily competing for placement with

0:36:52.719 --> 0:36:57.160
<v Speaker 2>artists and labels. Success required speed, instinct, and relentless self promotion.

0:36:57.719 --> 0:37:02.400
<v Speaker 2>Spector thrived creatively, but developed a reputation almost immediately for opportunism.

0:37:02.560 --> 0:37:05.440
<v Speaker 2>So I just read this thing where it's like, hey,

0:37:05.480 --> 0:37:08.759
<v Speaker 2>everybody's cutthroat up in this shit, and then it's like,

0:37:09.239 --> 0:37:14.520
<v Speaker 2>Specter immediately gets a reputation for being opportunistic in a

0:37:14.560 --> 0:37:17.120
<v Speaker 2>cutthroat building. To be opportunistic, to be like that in

0:37:17.160 --> 0:37:18.640
<v Speaker 2>a cutthroat.

0:37:18.120 --> 0:37:22.040
<v Speaker 1>You definitely, you know, in the music industry, to be

0:37:22.120 --> 0:37:24.239
<v Speaker 1>a cutthroat for people to be like, hey, guy is

0:37:24.280 --> 0:37:27.920
<v Speaker 1>fucking ruthless? Is something? Yeah.

0:37:28.040 --> 0:37:31.200
<v Speaker 2>Multiple collaborators from this period later accused him of aggressively

0:37:31.239 --> 0:37:35.239
<v Speaker 2>positioning himself for credit and financial participation in projects that

0:37:35.280 --> 0:37:40.120
<v Speaker 2>were often collaborative efforts. There were recurring stories of Specter

0:37:40.200 --> 0:37:43.520
<v Speaker 2>inserting himself into songwriting or production roles and minimizing the

0:37:43.560 --> 0:37:47.360
<v Speaker 2>contributions of others once success became likely. In some cases,

0:37:47.360 --> 0:37:51.000
<v Speaker 2>he was accused of leaving collaborators off credits entirely, a

0:37:51.000 --> 0:37:53.160
<v Speaker 2>move that not only deprived them of recognition but also

0:37:53.160 --> 0:37:55.080
<v Speaker 2>cut them out of long term royalty income.

0:37:55.320 --> 0:37:59.360
<v Speaker 4>So he's he's already just ruthless.

0:38:00.160 --> 0:38:02.080
<v Speaker 2>So there's something that I want to bring up here,

0:38:02.120 --> 0:38:05.040
<v Speaker 2>which is about the way that writing works, or writing

0:38:05.040 --> 0:38:08.359
<v Speaker 2>a song works, right, which is like the deal is

0:38:09.120 --> 0:38:13.759
<v Speaker 2>if there is no prior agreement, all right, if two

0:38:13.800 --> 0:38:16.440
<v Speaker 2>people just walk into a room and write a song together.

0:38:16.520 --> 0:38:18.600
<v Speaker 1>Right, it is, And they didn't fIF not as right

0:38:18.880 --> 0:38:21.239
<v Speaker 1>and not as part of a pre existing business arrangement or.

0:38:21.239 --> 0:38:24.399
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, yeah they did, not no one specified like hey,

0:38:24.400 --> 0:38:28.880
<v Speaker 2>spontaneous art. Yes, if nothing is specified, it is a

0:38:28.920 --> 0:38:31.880
<v Speaker 2>fifty to fifty split, doesn't matter if one person wrote

0:38:32.280 --> 0:38:34.400
<v Speaker 2>one word and the other wrote the entire song and all.

0:38:34.440 --> 0:38:36.839
<v Speaker 2>He was like, if you come into that create, if

0:38:36.840 --> 0:38:38.879
<v Speaker 2>it's three people, it's thirty three to third. If it's

0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:41.520
<v Speaker 2>for it's twenty five percent. Unless you have already agreed

0:38:41.520 --> 0:38:45.759
<v Speaker 2>to something. That's what the legal split is for this

0:38:45.840 --> 0:38:50.279
<v Speaker 2>whole situation. So for him to come into like sessions

0:38:50.320 --> 0:38:53.160
<v Speaker 2>and be like jumping right on, it's like it's like

0:38:53.239 --> 0:38:55.160
<v Speaker 2>I've seen this before, Like somebody walks in the room

0:38:55.400 --> 0:38:58.080
<v Speaker 2>and starts suggesting things, and you're just like, he just

0:38:58.120 --> 0:39:00.000
<v Speaker 2>took a portion of my my cut of this song,

0:39:00.320 --> 0:39:02.360
<v Speaker 2>and your suggestions were things I was gonna do anyways,

0:39:02.360 --> 0:39:04.400
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of annoying, you know. It's like, it's really

0:39:04.440 --> 0:39:09.799
<v Speaker 2>easy to finagle in this time period, especially so a

0:39:09.840 --> 0:39:12.520
<v Speaker 2>fellow writer named Beverly Ross, who helped Phil, recalled his

0:39:12.640 --> 0:39:14.719
<v Speaker 2>promises to bring her with him if he were to

0:39:14.760 --> 0:39:17.839
<v Speaker 2>ever get into the right rooms, but he renegged immediately

0:39:17.920 --> 0:39:22.200
<v Speaker 2>upon being granted opportunities. She saw Phil as a user,

0:39:22.239 --> 0:39:24.799
<v Speaker 2>and she was eventually offered a staff job, but she

0:39:24.880 --> 0:39:27.959
<v Speaker 2>declined it because she would have to see Phil every day.

0:39:28.280 --> 0:39:33.120
<v Speaker 2>So this woman literally turns down a successful, money paying

0:39:33.280 --> 0:39:36.440
<v Speaker 2>job writing at the Brill Building because she was like, oh,

0:39:36.440 --> 0:39:40.720
<v Speaker 2>I'd have to see Phil every day and he is cold.

0:39:41.000 --> 0:39:43.319
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to be around him. He's the worst, right, Yeah,

0:39:43.320 --> 0:39:44.000
<v Speaker 2>he's sketchy.

0:39:44.680 --> 0:39:47.040
<v Speaker 3>I respected a man could be that annoying that You're like,

0:39:47.160 --> 0:39:48.200
<v Speaker 3>absolutely not.

0:39:48.560 --> 0:39:50.240
<v Speaker 1>I want this is not worth the job.

0:39:50.520 --> 0:39:53.520
<v Speaker 3>The job is not worth my peace of mind. Please

0:39:54.040 --> 0:39:54.880
<v Speaker 3>stay away from me.

0:39:55.000 --> 0:39:56.800
<v Speaker 1>You should all have self respect.

0:39:57.080 --> 0:40:01.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah really, but you know twenty six man, it's

0:40:01.040 --> 0:40:02.000
<v Speaker 2>hard man's.

0:40:04.520 --> 0:40:09.799
<v Speaker 4>Right now, all right? Uh so, uh, this is from

0:40:09.800 --> 0:40:10.320
<v Speaker 4>her quote.

0:40:10.360 --> 0:40:12.880
<v Speaker 2>I was so gun shy of ever becoming vulnerable to

0:40:12.920 --> 0:40:16.359
<v Speaker 2>someone who'd betrayed me like that, because Phil practically killed

0:40:16.400 --> 0:40:19.320
<v Speaker 2>me emotionally. I figured I wasn't smart enough to handle

0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:22.080
<v Speaker 2>the part of his personality that I understand. It was

0:40:22.120 --> 0:40:24.239
<v Speaker 2>like Phil was born without a conscience and I was

0:40:24.239 --> 0:40:29.920
<v Speaker 2>his victim. He could be so ruthless. Wow, so seemingly

0:40:30.239 --> 0:40:33.000
<v Speaker 2>we have heard only from women that this is an issue, right,

0:40:33.080 --> 0:40:35.600
<v Speaker 2>It's like this does not seem to be very much

0:40:35.680 --> 0:40:36.720
<v Speaker 2>a male issue.

0:40:36.760 --> 0:40:37.719
<v Speaker 4>This is asistent.

0:40:37.960 --> 0:40:42.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, women around him have to feel the breath. And

0:40:42.400 --> 0:40:45.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, I mean again not to like give anybody

0:40:45.360 --> 0:40:47.600
<v Speaker 2>an out or any empathy for somebody who's a shitty

0:40:47.640 --> 0:40:50.080
<v Speaker 2>person because like shitty acts or shitty acts and it

0:40:50.080 --> 0:40:50.640
<v Speaker 2>doesn't matter.

0:40:50.680 --> 0:40:53.320
<v Speaker 4>But you can see like this is kind.

0:40:53.160 --> 0:40:56.359
<v Speaker 2>Of like an emotional and you know, reaction to his

0:40:56.400 --> 0:40:59.160
<v Speaker 2>mother and his sister pushing him, controlling him.

0:41:00.120 --> 0:41:02.960
<v Speaker 1>So too, Yeah, isn't absolution.

0:41:03.160 --> 0:41:05.560
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think I'm going to talk about this later.

0:41:05.600 --> 0:41:09.080
<v Speaker 2>But so Phil, whenever he went to work at the

0:41:09.080 --> 0:41:11.600
<v Speaker 2>Brill Building after he got his money from the Teddy Bears, right,

0:41:11.600 --> 0:41:13.840
<v Speaker 2>he made a lot of money, he had to actually take.

0:41:13.640 --> 0:41:14.800
<v Speaker 4>His mother to court.

0:41:15.480 --> 0:41:17.759
<v Speaker 2>I know, Uh, he had to take his mother to

0:41:17.840 --> 0:41:22.839
<v Speaker 2>court to get his money because even as like a teenager,

0:41:23.200 --> 0:41:25.160
<v Speaker 2>his mom was like, no, he can't you can't, you

0:41:25.200 --> 0:41:27.239
<v Speaker 2>can't be trusted, you'll leave us, you won't let us

0:41:27.239 --> 0:41:29.120
<v Speaker 2>have any money, you won't take care of us. And

0:41:29.200 --> 0:41:34.000
<v Speaker 2>so he's basically even like going into adulthood, he's having

0:41:34.040 --> 0:41:37.560
<v Speaker 2>to fight his mom in court over his own money

0:41:37.640 --> 0:41:39.680
<v Speaker 2>because of the way that you know, because the way

0:41:39.680 --> 0:41:41.760
<v Speaker 2>that she is, the controlling nature of her and everything.

0:41:41.840 --> 0:41:44.600
<v Speaker 2>So you know, it's like he's he's doing that while

0:41:44.600 --> 0:41:48.520
<v Speaker 2>also controlling other people and and and you know, doing

0:41:48.680 --> 0:41:49.840
<v Speaker 2>shitty things to other women.

0:41:50.480 --> 0:41:53.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I mean that. Yeah, so it's in part

0:41:53.719 --> 0:41:57.760
<v Speaker 1>just kind of his revenge based on his his shitty mom.

0:41:58.400 --> 0:41:58.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:41:58.800 --> 0:42:00.560
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, he's just taking it out on other people.

0:42:00.760 --> 0:42:03.680
<v Speaker 1>Well also just he grew up learning that, like that's

0:42:03.719 --> 0:42:05.680
<v Speaker 1>what you do to people, Like you can either be

0:42:05.800 --> 0:42:10.239
<v Speaker 1>controlled or controlling. Yes, I'll controlling. Yeah sure.

0:42:10.680 --> 0:42:13.279
<v Speaker 2>So so yeah, so being cutthroat, like we said, being

0:42:13.280 --> 0:42:15.759
<v Speaker 2>cutthroat isn't weird in the music industry, Like, you know,

0:42:15.800 --> 0:42:18.080
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of people that are famous for their

0:42:18.120 --> 0:42:20.880
<v Speaker 2>like ruthless activities inside the music industry, especially in the

0:42:20.920 --> 0:42:23.840
<v Speaker 2>old days or whatever. But to be in a cutthroat

0:42:23.920 --> 0:42:27.840
<v Speaker 2>environment and be the cuttiest, throatiest person of that environment

0:42:28.160 --> 0:42:31.040
<v Speaker 2>is like okay, like everybody is like, no, Phil is

0:42:31.280 --> 0:42:34.120
<v Speaker 2>the worst of all of them, Like, you know, everybody,

0:42:34.480 --> 0:42:36.640
<v Speaker 2>everybody in the building hates him, nobody trusts him. He

0:42:36.680 --> 0:42:39.320
<v Speaker 2>gets a reputation from just being like the dude that

0:42:39.360 --> 0:42:41.520
<v Speaker 2>would show up all the time and just like jump

0:42:41.520 --> 0:42:43.759
<v Speaker 2>in on things and take control and on all this stuff.

0:42:43.800 --> 0:42:45.280
<v Speaker 4>People don't like him.

0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:49.640
<v Speaker 2>So one of the most important relationship spectro form during

0:42:49.680 --> 0:42:52.640
<v Speaker 2>this New York period was with legendary songwriting production Durg

0:42:52.880 --> 0:42:55.920
<v Speaker 2>Jerry Lieber and Mike Stoller. Liber and Stoller were already

0:42:55.960 --> 0:42:58.160
<v Speaker 2>giants of the early rock and rhythm and blues era,

0:42:58.280 --> 0:43:01.720
<v Speaker 2>and we're responsible for shaping hits artists like Elvis Presley,

0:43:01.760 --> 0:43:05.120
<v Speaker 2>the Coasters, like numerous other artists. They were architects of

0:43:05.160 --> 0:43:08.280
<v Speaker 2>the modern producer model, combining songwriting and arrangement and studio

0:43:08.320 --> 0:43:12.279
<v Speaker 2>direction into a single creative authority. At this point, like

0:43:12.400 --> 0:43:15.759
<v Speaker 2>music is changing really fast at this point, you know,

0:43:15.880 --> 0:43:19.240
<v Speaker 2>because the technology is changing, the way that people operate

0:43:19.360 --> 0:43:21.960
<v Speaker 2>is changing. It went from being like, oh, this is

0:43:22.000 --> 0:43:25.239
<v Speaker 2>a band that plays this music to now like we

0:43:25.360 --> 0:43:27.600
<v Speaker 2>got a creative team. All these people are writing this

0:43:27.719 --> 0:43:30.800
<v Speaker 2>stuff and like also to this is really important.

0:43:30.960 --> 0:43:32.239
<v Speaker 4>This is the first.

0:43:31.920 --> 0:43:36.960
<v Speaker 2>Time in musical history that music goes from being marketed

0:43:37.000 --> 0:43:41.200
<v Speaker 2>to adults to being marketed to teenagers. Oh right, yeah,

0:43:41.360 --> 0:43:44.920
<v Speaker 2>because prior to this, there has never been.

0:43:46.239 --> 0:43:49.280
<v Speaker 4>Teenagers with money, you know, like teenagers.

0:43:51.120 --> 0:43:54.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yes, as a teenager, you're like you were just

0:43:54.600 --> 0:43:57.080
<v Speaker 1>working in the minds and handing money to your parents

0:43:57.120 --> 0:43:59.799
<v Speaker 1>so that they buy starvation with it. Yeah, you have

0:44:00.080 --> 0:44:01.279
<v Speaker 1>forward to starve to death.

0:44:01.560 --> 0:44:04.080
<v Speaker 2>So this is the first time in all of recorded

0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:08.719
<v Speaker 2>history basically that teenagers become a market right, And this

0:44:08.800 --> 0:44:12.359
<v Speaker 2>is really important to this whole overview of like where

0:44:12.800 --> 0:44:16.480
<v Speaker 2>where the money comes from, and how they market to

0:44:16.560 --> 0:44:19.560
<v Speaker 2>things and how they even write a song. Like, so

0:44:19.600 --> 0:44:21.640
<v Speaker 2>it went from being like, okay, a band does all

0:44:21.680 --> 0:44:24.240
<v Speaker 2>this to like a group of guys would get together

0:44:24.320 --> 0:44:26.360
<v Speaker 2>in a room and start being like, okay, cool, Like

0:44:26.520 --> 0:44:28.080
<v Speaker 2>I wrote this song, I was gonna give it to

0:44:28.120 --> 0:44:29.840
<v Speaker 2>this person, but you know, we should give it to

0:44:29.840 --> 0:44:32.160
<v Speaker 2>this person. And that's why in this time you'll see

0:44:32.200 --> 0:44:36.359
<v Speaker 2>a lot of like, you know, like Aretha Franklin songs

0:44:36.360 --> 0:44:38.960
<v Speaker 2>that are also Otis Redding songs later or whatever. You know,

0:44:39.040 --> 0:44:41.319
<v Speaker 2>like people would just write a song and give it

0:44:41.360 --> 0:44:43.719
<v Speaker 2>to an artist, and then anybody who liked that song

0:44:43.719 --> 0:44:46.400
<v Speaker 2>would also cover it because the money went back to

0:44:46.440 --> 0:44:47.000
<v Speaker 2>the publishing.

0:44:47.440 --> 0:44:49.960
<v Speaker 4>Right, the performance is a minimum amount of the money.

0:44:50.160 --> 0:44:51.480
<v Speaker 4>The publishing is the money.

0:44:51.520 --> 0:44:54.600
<v Speaker 2>So these guys would keep giving these songs to other people,

0:44:54.680 --> 0:44:56.720
<v Speaker 2>other artists and be like, you should do this song.

0:44:56.880 --> 0:44:58.799
<v Speaker 4>And it just became normalized to do that.

0:44:58.960 --> 0:45:04.640
<v Speaker 2>So the the strength of the music industry went from

0:45:04.680 --> 0:45:08.200
<v Speaker 2>being bands to being producers. Right, and this is where

0:45:08.239 --> 0:45:12.279
<v Speaker 2>Phil kind of slams hard into the industry. All right,

0:45:12.320 --> 0:45:14.560
<v Speaker 2>so he falls in like he falls in with these

0:45:14.600 --> 0:45:18.239
<v Speaker 2>guys liber and Stoller, who are like the guys of

0:45:18.280 --> 0:45:21.960
<v Speaker 2>the time. They are the Max Martin's or whatever famous producer,

0:45:22.080 --> 0:45:26.320
<v Speaker 2>the Kenny Beats, or the Doctor Dre's or the whatever

0:45:26.440 --> 0:45:31.360
<v Speaker 2>you love. They are that of this time, and Specter

0:45:31.480 --> 0:45:35.319
<v Speaker 2>admired them intensely. He started their recording techniques, their business strategies,

0:45:35.520 --> 0:45:39.200
<v Speaker 2>and their ability to shape artist identities from behind the glass.

0:45:39.480 --> 0:45:41.719
<v Speaker 2>In many ways, liber and Stoller provided in Specter with

0:45:41.760 --> 0:45:45.160
<v Speaker 2>a blueprint for the career he wanted to build. Despite

0:45:45.200 --> 0:45:51.040
<v Speaker 2>recognizing his talent. However, liber and Stoller never fully trusted him.

0:45:51.160 --> 0:45:54.640
<v Speaker 2>Accounts from associates and later biographies described them as simultaneously

0:45:54.680 --> 0:45:58.200
<v Speaker 2>impressed by spector's musical talents and wary of his personality.

0:45:58.480 --> 0:46:02.440
<v Speaker 2>He was ambitious, obsessive, and socially abrasive. He pushed himself

0:46:02.440 --> 0:46:05.080
<v Speaker 2>into rooms he had not been invited into. He demanded

0:46:05.080 --> 0:46:07.800
<v Speaker 2>opportunities he had not yet earned. He hovered around sessions,

0:46:08.000 --> 0:46:12.600
<v Speaker 2>absorbing information and inserting suggestions, persistently trying to attach himself

0:46:12.600 --> 0:46:16.480
<v Speaker 2>to projects. But they kept they kept giving him chances. Right.

0:46:16.600 --> 0:46:20.280
<v Speaker 2>Part of this was practical, practical because he was actually

0:46:20.280 --> 0:46:20.960
<v Speaker 2>he was good.

0:46:21.080 --> 0:46:23.560
<v Speaker 4>He was very good musically talented.

0:46:24.160 --> 0:46:26.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and so it's like, man, you ever worked with

0:46:26.520 --> 0:46:28.760
<v Speaker 2>somebody who's good at their job but a horrible person,

0:46:29.719 --> 0:46:31.080
<v Speaker 2>Like we've all been there, right.

0:46:34.719 --> 0:46:40.400
<v Speaker 5>Right, yeah, and you're like, ah, specters come to the studios,

0:46:40.840 --> 0:46:44.879
<v Speaker 5>Yeah we're gonna write, but yeah, we're gonna write a.

0:46:44.800 --> 0:46:47.640
<v Speaker 4>Banger, but.

0:46:49.160 --> 0:46:50.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:46:50.400 --> 0:46:51.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:46:51.360 --> 0:46:54.759
<v Speaker 2>Their willingness to tolerate him also reflected that, you know, uh,

0:46:55.080 --> 0:46:57.560
<v Speaker 2>he represents the next step, like what I was just

0:46:57.600 --> 0:47:00.760
<v Speaker 2>talking about, He's the next step in the evolutiontionary ladder

0:47:00.880 --> 0:47:02.960
<v Speaker 2>of working in the music industry.

0:47:03.040 --> 0:47:03.799
<v Speaker 4>You know, it's like.

0:47:03.880 --> 0:47:08.680
<v Speaker 2>He's he is the producer model that will become the

0:47:08.719 --> 0:47:10.080
<v Speaker 2>tour de force in the industry.

0:47:10.480 --> 0:47:13.279
<v Speaker 1>That's uh, yeah, that's that's that's a good note. I

0:47:13.320 --> 0:47:15.960
<v Speaker 1>do want to say, you know what I'm willing to

0:47:16.080 --> 0:47:18.279
<v Speaker 1>settle for will.

0:47:18.920 --> 0:47:23.000
<v Speaker 2>Uh billions of dollars. I only want to becoming for

0:47:23.040 --> 0:47:25.839
<v Speaker 2>the ragor. And I'm sure I know, I actually know

0:47:26.120 --> 0:47:28.799
<v Speaker 2>that you do get you get billions of dollars from

0:47:28.840 --> 0:47:29.600
<v Speaker 2>these ads, right.

0:47:29.560 --> 0:47:32.160
<v Speaker 1>I do. I do billions of every every single ad.

0:47:32.840 --> 0:47:35.440
<v Speaker 2>And there's no healthcare given to any of your employees.

0:47:35.480 --> 0:47:39.560
<v Speaker 2>You are just like you are Jeff Bezos. Man.

0:47:39.800 --> 0:47:44.239
<v Speaker 1>I actually bought Bezos' yacht just to sink, so that

0:47:44.360 --> 0:47:47.319
<v Speaker 1>my yacht will avoid sinking the same way.

0:47:47.480 --> 0:47:50.439
<v Speaker 2>You know, I've heard about that you're doing. I went, yeah,

0:47:50.640 --> 0:47:52.359
<v Speaker 2>don't sleep on that couch as well.

0:47:52.360 --> 0:47:57.200
<v Speaker 3>I'm saying, anyways.

0:47:56.080 --> 0:47:58.359
<v Speaker 1>Let's all think about what diseases you get from Jeff

0:47:58.360 --> 0:48:09.399
<v Speaker 1>Bezos's yacht couch and here some mad Yeah we're back.

0:48:09.600 --> 0:48:11.640
<v Speaker 1>The answer was gonna rhea.

0:48:11.840 --> 0:48:14.640
<v Speaker 4>All right, all right.

0:48:15.040 --> 0:48:20.000
<v Speaker 2>So this is where Phil starts really developing his understanding

0:48:20.000 --> 0:48:21.960
<v Speaker 2>of how records are made. How I mean, this is

0:48:21.960 --> 0:48:26.520
<v Speaker 2>a learning environment. This is the professional like environment of

0:48:26.560 --> 0:48:29.720
<v Speaker 2>writers in New York. This is his like high school

0:48:29.760 --> 0:48:30.680
<v Speaker 2>or college or whatever.

0:48:30.719 --> 0:48:31.520
<v Speaker 4>This is his moment.

0:48:31.640 --> 0:48:35.239
<v Speaker 2>He absorbs all that, and he starts really understanding like

0:48:36.520 --> 0:48:40.520
<v Speaker 2>the recording studio and the process of recording is it

0:48:40.760 --> 0:48:44.480
<v Speaker 2>is like the music itself, the music comes from the

0:48:44.680 --> 0:48:46.759
<v Speaker 2>environment that this stuff is made in as much as

0:48:46.760 --> 0:48:49.160
<v Speaker 2>anything else. And this is kind of like a new

0:48:49.239 --> 0:48:53.680
<v Speaker 2>concept because you know, music is we're in the sixties

0:48:53.760 --> 0:48:57.360
<v Speaker 2>right now, right we're in the sixties. We only really

0:48:57.400 --> 0:49:04.640
<v Speaker 2>started having like reasonable sounding recording recorded music like ten

0:49:04.760 --> 0:49:08.440
<v Speaker 2>years prior to this, before anything like that, before ten years,

0:49:08.480 --> 0:49:12.040
<v Speaker 2>like we only got everybody say thank you to Adolf

0:49:12.120 --> 0:49:15.759
<v Speaker 2>Hitler right now, thank you, ad Off without no.

0:49:16.760 --> 0:49:19.560
<v Speaker 1>One of his many contribution.

0:49:20.520 --> 0:49:24.200
<v Speaker 2>To the world was we got a post World War two?

0:49:25.000 --> 0:49:27.279
<v Speaker 2>Do you know this about Hitler? This is actually really funny.

0:49:27.800 --> 0:49:30.719
<v Speaker 1>Really because it was Huston. He famously believed and wrote

0:49:30.719 --> 0:49:33.239
<v Speaker 1>about this in my comp that the best way to

0:49:33.320 --> 0:49:35.759
<v Speaker 1>convince people of anything was the human voice, that the

0:49:35.880 --> 0:49:39.600
<v Speaker 1>pure human voice was the best tool for influencing people.

0:49:39.320 --> 0:49:44.400
<v Speaker 2>And at the time confused at the time, exactly literally

0:49:44.440 --> 0:49:49.880
<v Speaker 2>he was ahead of the curve oncaster Alf Hitler.

0:49:49.760 --> 0:49:52.920
<v Speaker 4>The world's first podcaster. Amazing, that's right.

0:49:53.719 --> 0:49:55.560
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's like the British were all baffled at

0:49:55.560 --> 0:49:58.160
<v Speaker 2>the time too, because like prior to this, Like basically

0:49:58.160 --> 0:50:01.759
<v Speaker 2>they had magnetic wire recording and they had wax cylinders

0:50:01.760 --> 0:50:03.840
<v Speaker 2>that they could record to right, and it was basically

0:50:04.280 --> 0:50:07.080
<v Speaker 2>one shot, one kill if you liked. If you messed up,

0:50:07.120 --> 0:50:10.279
<v Speaker 2>it was over right. But magnetic recording actually, and.

0:50:10.360 --> 0:50:11.840
<v Speaker 4>It was cleaner.

0:50:11.880 --> 0:50:14.600
<v Speaker 2>It sounded way better, like in comparison to like the

0:50:14.600 --> 0:50:17.600
<v Speaker 2>old vinyls that I had, the like, it was way cleaner,

0:50:17.600 --> 0:50:20.000
<v Speaker 2>it sounded more pure. And the Brits were like, how

0:50:20.080 --> 0:50:23.759
<v Speaker 2>is this guy broadcasting from like eight different cities in

0:50:23.920 --> 0:50:26.680
<v Speaker 2>absolute clarity? Like they're so confused at the time, they

0:50:26.719 --> 0:50:28.960
<v Speaker 2>have no idea what's going on all because Hitler's over

0:50:28.960 --> 0:50:30.799
<v Speaker 2>there with the only magnetic recorder.

0:50:30.480 --> 0:50:31.880
<v Speaker 4>That's in the entire world.

0:50:32.080 --> 0:50:34.960
<v Speaker 2>Because just turns out, basf there in Germany, who's just

0:50:34.960 --> 0:50:37.680
<v Speaker 2>still a company. Congratulations, you guys made it through the

0:50:37.840 --> 0:50:40.680
<v Speaker 2>entire Nazi regime and all the backlash, I you know,

0:50:40.960 --> 0:50:45.320
<v Speaker 2>hats off. So without Hitler and his magnetic recording, we

0:50:45.320 --> 0:50:45.839
<v Speaker 2>would not have.

0:50:45.800 --> 0:50:46.640
<v Speaker 4>The music industry.

0:50:46.920 --> 0:50:49.680
<v Speaker 2>They brought the GIS. The GIS brought it back in

0:50:49.719 --> 0:50:53.440
<v Speaker 2>the forties, uh to America. We started tinkering with it.

0:50:53.640 --> 0:50:56.480
<v Speaker 2>By late fifties. We have Les Paul and Bill Putnam

0:50:56.520 --> 0:51:00.760
<v Speaker 2>basically like the gods of recording folks.

0:51:00.840 --> 0:51:03.120
<v Speaker 1>If it hadn't been for Hitler, none of us would

0:51:03.120 --> 0:51:05.480
<v Speaker 1>have been able to hear the Mighty Mighty boss Tones

0:51:05.520 --> 0:51:08.719
<v Speaker 1>album about George Floyd And what kind of America would

0:51:08.800 --> 0:51:09.120
<v Speaker 1>that be?

0:51:10.040 --> 0:51:13.440
<v Speaker 2>I so desperately want to take the time five second story.

0:51:13.640 --> 0:51:15.279
<v Speaker 2>I once went to a concert and you know, the

0:51:15.280 --> 0:51:17.239
<v Speaker 2>guy that dances on stage and that's his only job.

0:51:17.440 --> 0:51:19.400
<v Speaker 4>Somebody threw a shoe and it hit him right.

0:51:19.280 --> 0:51:21.920
<v Speaker 2>In the fucking face and it took him completely out,

0:51:21.960 --> 0:51:23.759
<v Speaker 2>and they stopped the concert and they're like, we're not

0:51:23.800 --> 0:51:24.279
<v Speaker 2>gonna play.

0:51:24.400 --> 0:51:26.120
<v Speaker 4>And somebody goes, who cares?

0:51:27.840 --> 0:51:28.280
<v Speaker 3>Wow?

0:51:30.280 --> 0:51:33.279
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's my favorite Mighty Mighty boss Let's story. All right,

0:51:34.480 --> 0:51:38.160
<v Speaker 2>So sorry I was on a little tangent there. Hitler

0:51:38.200 --> 0:51:42.000
<v Speaker 2>gave us recording, but it's very new. Recording is very new, right,

0:51:42.120 --> 0:51:47.560
<v Speaker 2>So the way that they record is changing by the day, right,

0:51:47.600 --> 0:51:49.800
<v Speaker 2>It's like people are discovering new things. We go from

0:51:50.080 --> 0:51:53.600
<v Speaker 2>a single track to record to so now we have

0:51:53.880 --> 0:51:55.640
<v Speaker 2>two tracks and you can bounce back and forth, and

0:51:55.680 --> 0:51:56.439
<v Speaker 2>now we have four tracks.

0:51:56.480 --> 0:51:58.680
<v Speaker 4>And then next thing you know, they've got a.

0:51:58.680 --> 0:52:01.359
<v Speaker 2>Whole console that they've made that you know, and these

0:52:01.360 --> 0:52:04.000
<v Speaker 2>guys are literally building them themselves, like Bill Putnham was

0:52:04.000 --> 0:52:07.799
<v Speaker 2>like building handbuilding his own consoles and everything. And so

0:52:07.960 --> 0:52:10.960
<v Speaker 2>they now have some technology. It opens up the world

0:52:10.960 --> 0:52:14.400
<v Speaker 2>of recording. Prior to this, if you were a band,

0:52:14.840 --> 0:52:17.839
<v Speaker 2>that was the only way to record music, right, you

0:52:17.920 --> 0:52:22.200
<v Speaker 2>had to stand all around this horn and everybody like

0:52:22.360 --> 0:52:24.560
<v Speaker 2>make their noise, and whoever was like the loudest in

0:52:24.640 --> 0:52:26.440
<v Speaker 2>the horn is the loudest. So he put the vocalist

0:52:26.480 --> 0:52:28.759
<v Speaker 2>the closest, and you put the drummer away the hell back,

0:52:28.800 --> 0:52:29.960
<v Speaker 2>and like, you know, you have to.

0:52:30.280 --> 0:52:31.520
<v Speaker 4>It's it's complicated.

0:52:31.560 --> 0:52:35.319
<v Speaker 2>It's you're so concerned with just getting a recording that

0:52:35.400 --> 0:52:37.440
<v Speaker 2>you don't have really time to think about the.

0:52:37.760 --> 0:52:40.400
<v Speaker 4>Artistic direction of the recording.

0:52:40.719 --> 0:52:44.640
<v Speaker 2>And so this moment in history, the late fifties, early

0:52:44.719 --> 0:52:45.880
<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixties, this.

0:52:46.000 --> 0:52:49.560
<v Speaker 4>Is the moment that changes all of recorded music.

0:52:49.600 --> 0:52:52.120
<v Speaker 2>And why obviously I'm such a big fan of this

0:52:52.200 --> 0:52:55.920
<v Speaker 2>as someone who considers himself to be a stereo phil specter,

0:52:56.320 --> 0:52:59.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, I absorb a lot of his music and

0:52:59.760 --> 0:53:02.600
<v Speaker 2>I think that this is like how I try and

0:53:02.640 --> 0:53:05.080
<v Speaker 2>portray myself and a lot of this stuff without all

0:53:05.120 --> 0:53:07.960
<v Speaker 2>the you know, well, actually the same number of ex wives.

0:53:07.960 --> 0:53:09.640
<v Speaker 2>That's great, we have the same number of X wives

0:53:09.680 --> 0:53:10.240
<v Speaker 2>at three.

0:53:10.480 --> 0:53:11.480
<v Speaker 4>We're crussing it.

0:53:12.840 --> 0:53:16.800
<v Speaker 2>But without the other crimes, without the other crimes.

0:53:17.239 --> 0:53:18.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, all right.

0:53:18.600 --> 0:53:23.800
<v Speaker 2>So, rather than treating musicians as equal collaborator, Specter increasingly

0:53:23.840 --> 0:53:27.760
<v Speaker 2>saw them as interchangeable components and a larger sonic structure.

0:53:28.160 --> 0:53:31.120
<v Speaker 2>If one player failed to achieve the desired result, another

0:53:31.160 --> 0:53:34.160
<v Speaker 2>could replace them. If a vocalist lacked the emotional texture

0:53:34.160 --> 0:53:38.040
<v Speaker 2>he wanted, he could manipulate arrangement, echo, orchestration, reverb, all

0:53:38.080 --> 0:53:40.880
<v Speaker 2>these things to compensate and evolve.

0:53:41.080 --> 0:53:43.080
<v Speaker 1>Sorry, go ahead, No, this is like and it seems

0:53:43.080 --> 0:53:44.440
<v Speaker 1>like this is in a lot of ways the birth

0:53:44.520 --> 0:53:49.000
<v Speaker 1>of the end of music, transitioning away popular music, transitioning

0:53:49.040 --> 0:53:52.080
<v Speaker 1>away from these are people who like make something like

0:53:52.280 --> 0:53:54.000
<v Speaker 1>art that they want to share with people too. This

0:53:54.040 --> 0:53:56.439
<v Speaker 1>is a product, and we can we can cut out

0:53:56.520 --> 0:54:00.840
<v Speaker 1>pieces and slide in pieces wherever we need to percent.

0:54:01.160 --> 0:54:03.640
<v Speaker 2>This is absolutely the birth of that. This is the

0:54:03.680 --> 0:54:07.920
<v Speaker 2>birth of like. I am pitching this song to Ariana

0:54:07.960 --> 0:54:11.040
<v Speaker 2>Grande because she might sing it great, but I don't

0:54:11.040 --> 0:54:12.280
<v Speaker 2>care if Beyonce takes.

0:54:12.280 --> 0:54:15.680
<v Speaker 1>Let's get bidding on this music. Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:54:15.520 --> 0:54:16.399
<v Speaker 4>It's no longer as much.

0:54:16.400 --> 0:54:18.839
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I still think people put as much love

0:54:18.840 --> 0:54:21.440
<v Speaker 2>and passion into their Sure, yeah music is always but

0:54:21.520 --> 0:54:22.520
<v Speaker 2>it's we're.

0:54:22.400 --> 0:54:24.600
<v Speaker 1>Saying it's nothing but bad or whatever. But it's a

0:54:24.640 --> 0:54:25.480
<v Speaker 1>big change.

0:54:25.960 --> 0:54:28.640
<v Speaker 4>Yes, it is a very big change. Yeah.

0:54:29.239 --> 0:54:32.200
<v Speaker 2>So Specter closely studied records that we're experimenting with dense

0:54:32.280 --> 0:54:36.560
<v Speaker 2>layering and orchestral pop arrangements, particularly productions that emphasized emotional

0:54:36.600 --> 0:54:40.319
<v Speaker 2>saturation through instrumental doubling and echo chamber effects. Songs like

0:54:40.400 --> 0:54:42.160
<v Speaker 2>under the Boardwalk you know that song.

0:54:44.239 --> 0:54:45.719
<v Speaker 4>If you listen to somebody.

0:54:45.520 --> 0:54:49.879
<v Speaker 2>sEH, if you listen to that, you will absolutely hear

0:54:49.920 --> 0:54:54.200
<v Speaker 2>what are the early you know, phrases that that Specter

0:54:54.280 --> 0:54:57.839
<v Speaker 2>would draw from. It sounds basically like a Phil Spector song.

0:54:57.880 --> 0:55:00.919
<v Speaker 2>It's got you know, like the orchestration is buried in there.

0:55:01.040 --> 0:55:04.160
<v Speaker 2>It's like, you know, the vocal is very upfront and everything,

0:55:04.360 --> 0:55:06.719
<v Speaker 2>but everything else is kind of a mesh behind it,

0:55:06.800 --> 0:55:10.040
<v Speaker 2>and it's not nearly there's a lot of reverb and everything.

0:55:10.080 --> 0:55:13.200
<v Speaker 2>It's not nearly as clean and clear as some of

0:55:13.320 --> 0:55:15.400
<v Speaker 2>like because that was the goal, right, It was like

0:55:15.440 --> 0:55:16.880
<v Speaker 2>for so long they're like, we just want to make

0:55:16.920 --> 0:55:18.520
<v Speaker 2>something that sounds good, and then all of a sudden

0:55:18.560 --> 0:55:21.040
<v Speaker 2>they're like, oh, actually, we can make anything. So let's

0:55:21.080 --> 0:55:23.600
<v Speaker 2>just make it sound crazy, let's make it sound reverby,

0:55:23.680 --> 0:55:26.800
<v Speaker 2>let's do like experimentation with this stuff. So he starts

0:55:26.800 --> 0:55:31.080
<v Speaker 2>to get into that. What distinguished Specter was not necessarily

0:55:31.120 --> 0:55:33.720
<v Speaker 2>that he invented these techniques, but that he became obsessed

0:55:33.719 --> 0:55:37.120
<v Speaker 2>with expanding them to their absolute extreme. Where earlier producers

0:55:37.200 --> 0:55:41.120
<v Speaker 2>used layering to enhance song, Spector began envisioning arrangements where

0:55:41.160 --> 0:55:46.120
<v Speaker 2>individual instruments disappeared into a unified emotional mass. Precision gave

0:55:46.160 --> 0:55:49.480
<v Speaker 2>way to density, Clarity gave way to atmosphere. The recording

0:55:49.520 --> 0:55:51.560
<v Speaker 2>was not meant to be dissected. It was meant to

0:55:52.160 --> 0:55:56.800
<v Speaker 2>overwhelm you, right. And this is like the big principle

0:55:56.840 --> 0:55:59.840
<v Speaker 2>of the wall of sound. Anybody who knows about Phil Spector, like, seriously,

0:55:59.880 --> 0:56:02.040
<v Speaker 2>no about the wall of sound. The wall of sound

0:56:02.280 --> 0:56:07.759
<v Speaker 2>was Phil Spector's creation in sorts. It's it's a it's

0:56:07.800 --> 0:56:13.879
<v Speaker 2>a way of recording that makes the music like very Wagnerian, right,

0:56:13.960 --> 0:56:17.440
<v Speaker 2>It's it's like a Wagner opera. It's a bunch of

0:56:17.560 --> 0:56:20.120
<v Speaker 2>noise coming at you, right, And it is meant to

0:56:20.280 --> 0:56:21.040
<v Speaker 2>overwhelm you.

0:56:21.280 --> 0:56:23.320
<v Speaker 4>There's often layers of percussion.

0:56:23.360 --> 0:56:26.920
<v Speaker 2>It was all like, uh, layers of instrumentation to be

0:56:26.960 --> 0:56:29.440
<v Speaker 2>drummer on drummer and drummer, three piano.

0:56:29.080 --> 0:56:30.719
<v Speaker 4>Players, like six guitars.

0:56:31.120 --> 0:56:34.120
<v Speaker 2>And this is such a big change because, like I said,

0:56:34.160 --> 0:56:35.879
<v Speaker 2>prior to this, it was like, well, you just put

0:56:35.880 --> 0:56:38.680
<v Speaker 2>a band in a room and then you record the band, right,

0:56:39.040 --> 0:56:41.480
<v Speaker 2>and so now it's all of a sudden, like I

0:56:41.520 --> 0:56:43.719
<v Speaker 2>don't have to reproduce this on stage. It doesn't have

0:56:43.760 --> 0:56:46.000
<v Speaker 2>to sound like this. I'm gonna make this. I'm gonna

0:56:46.000 --> 0:56:48.360
<v Speaker 2>put ten pianos on here. I'm gonna go crazy with you,

0:56:48.760 --> 0:56:51.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, like yeah, like I can do anything, Okay,

0:56:51.920 --> 0:56:54.440
<v Speaker 2>I want ten pianos, then bring in ten pianos. It's

0:56:54.480 --> 0:56:57.799
<v Speaker 2>also like kind of that like era of like that

0:56:57.960 --> 0:57:00.120
<v Speaker 2>starts there where was like the money is actually in

0:57:00.200 --> 0:57:03.040
<v Speaker 2>music where they're like I need ten pianos tonight, and

0:57:03.120 --> 0:57:05.600
<v Speaker 2>like someone goes out and picks up ten pianos.

0:57:05.760 --> 0:57:07.960
<v Speaker 4>You know, it's really amazing.

0:57:08.120 --> 0:57:10.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, So like this is also yeah, kind

0:57:10.440 --> 0:57:13.360
<v Speaker 1>of the birth of the the insane expenditures for like

0:57:13.480 --> 0:57:15.760
<v Speaker 1>crazy artistical wins aspect.

0:57:15.960 --> 0:57:19.240
<v Speaker 4>It later transforms into a cocaine budget, but well a

0:57:19.360 --> 0:57:20.120
<v Speaker 4>little early.

0:57:20.200 --> 0:57:22.920
<v Speaker 2>It's early for the cocaine budget, but it will eventually

0:57:23.000 --> 0:57:24.360
<v Speaker 2>become a cocaine budget.

0:57:24.560 --> 0:57:25.040
<v Speaker 4>Excited.

0:57:26.360 --> 0:57:28.840
<v Speaker 2>So, despite being signed to Liber and Stoller, those two

0:57:29.600 --> 0:57:32.840
<v Speaker 2>mentors that he had, he eventually becomes enamored with the

0:57:32.880 --> 0:57:35.640
<v Speaker 2>co founder of Atlantic Records. I'm at Airdigun and when

0:57:35.680 --> 0:57:38.800
<v Speaker 2>given the opportunity to jump ship, he wasted no time. Right,

0:57:39.040 --> 0:57:42.400
<v Speaker 2>liber and Stoller are pissed. They're like, bro, what are

0:57:42.440 --> 0:57:44.640
<v Speaker 2>you doing? Like, we gave you this opportune.

0:57:44.240 --> 0:57:47.160
<v Speaker 3>Tolerated your bitch ass, and you're just gonna dip.

0:57:47.320 --> 0:57:48.680
<v Speaker 4>Yes, we tolerated you.

0:57:48.760 --> 0:57:50.760
<v Speaker 1>We let you come in put up with your ass.

0:57:51.280 --> 0:57:53.560
<v Speaker 2>And he's like, actually, I was underage when I signed

0:57:53.600 --> 0:57:54.960
<v Speaker 2>your contract, so it doesn't matter.

0:57:55.000 --> 0:57:56.640
<v Speaker 4>You guys can't do shit. And he just walks out

0:57:56.800 --> 0:58:01.000
<v Speaker 4>right and and they're like, eh, fair, that was true.

0:58:01.400 --> 0:58:03.600
<v Speaker 2>We get, in fact, sign an underage person to a

0:58:03.640 --> 0:58:07.720
<v Speaker 2>contract without having the proper legal authority, So whoopswee fucked up.

0:58:07.760 --> 0:58:12.920
<v Speaker 2>So so he becomes friends with Ahmed Erdegan Erdigon recognizes

0:58:12.920 --> 0:58:16.440
<v Speaker 2>his talent and he starts learning from him. Uh, it's

0:58:16.480 --> 0:58:19.040
<v Speaker 2>he's just an old school record guy, right, And now

0:58:19.080 --> 0:58:20.920
<v Speaker 2>so Phil's now learning the business.

0:58:21.040 --> 0:58:23.480
<v Speaker 4>Right, this is he was in the music thing, and

0:58:23.480 --> 0:58:24.320
<v Speaker 4>now he's like, I'm going.

0:58:24.240 --> 0:58:27.760
<v Speaker 2>To learn the business. Phil would find some reasonable successes

0:58:27.840 --> 0:58:30.360
<v Speaker 2>during this time, remaining under the tutelage of his friend Lester,

0:58:30.440 --> 0:58:33.160
<v Speaker 2>still the old World War Two veteran, but he would

0:58:33.200 --> 0:58:35.720
<v Speaker 2>eventually desire more freedom to work as he pleased, and

0:58:35.800 --> 0:58:39.200
<v Speaker 2>so he and Lester formed phil Less Records, a portmanteau

0:58:39.200 --> 0:58:43.160
<v Speaker 2>of their two names. I think that's the word portmanteau, right, yep,

0:58:43.480 --> 0:58:44.320
<v Speaker 2>thanks nailed it.

0:58:44.520 --> 0:58:47.200
<v Speaker 4>Look at me with that look at I just guessed

0:58:47.200 --> 0:58:51.520
<v Speaker 4>on that one. Thanks. Uh. He was slowly becoming the

0:58:51.640 --> 0:58:52.600
<v Speaker 4>king of girl groups.

0:58:52.600 --> 0:58:55.360
<v Speaker 2>It was actually around this time that he was dubbed

0:58:55.400 --> 0:58:59.280
<v Speaker 2>the Tycoon of teen, which sounds very questionable.

0:58:59.400 --> 0:59:03.720
<v Speaker 3>I don't like I don't like that. Nope, nope, visceral reaction.

0:59:04.280 --> 0:59:05.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:59:05.360 --> 0:59:08.360
<v Speaker 2>So, by the age of twenty one he had become

0:59:08.400 --> 0:59:12.840
<v Speaker 2>an undeniable force in the industry. He had produced a

0:59:13.040 --> 0:59:16.280
<v Speaker 2>string of hits, like I think he had like twenty

0:59:16.320 --> 0:59:20.520
<v Speaker 2>one top ten singles in Jesus three years or something. Yeah,

0:59:20.520 --> 0:59:24.400
<v Speaker 2>it was like an insane amount. His first major success

0:59:24.600 --> 0:59:27.919
<v Speaker 2>was Spanish Harlem, after his own Spanish Harlem by Benny King,

0:59:28.200 --> 0:59:31.000
<v Speaker 2>and then there's no one other like My Baby by

0:59:31.040 --> 0:59:35.840
<v Speaker 2>the Crystals. He's a rebel by the Crystals. Bobby Socks

0:59:35.880 --> 0:59:38.040
<v Speaker 2>and the Blue Jeans had a song as Zippity DooDah.

0:59:38.400 --> 0:59:42.160
<v Speaker 2>Lots of crazy hits, right, yeah, crazy crazy hits.

0:59:42.240 --> 0:59:42.520
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:59:43.000 --> 0:59:47.400
<v Speaker 2>Here's a little little piece though the Crystals are sitting there.

0:59:48.280 --> 0:59:50.960
<v Speaker 2>They recorded There's no one other like My Baby. He

0:59:51.080 --> 0:59:53.360
<v Speaker 2>did well in the charts, and then you know, a

0:59:53.360 --> 0:59:55.840
<v Speaker 2>few months later, they're sitting there listening to the radio

0:59:55.880 --> 0:59:57.040
<v Speaker 2>one afternoon and they hear.

0:59:56.960 --> 0:59:57.560
<v Speaker 4>A song come on.

0:59:57.600 --> 1:00:00.160
<v Speaker 2>They're like, oh, this is cool, it's an interesting So

1:00:00.520 --> 1:00:03.120
<v Speaker 2>they get done and the radio announces all and that

1:00:03.480 --> 1:00:06.160
<v Speaker 2>was He's a Rebel by the Crystals.

1:00:06.280 --> 1:00:08.360
<v Speaker 4>And they're like, wait what.

1:00:09.800 --> 1:00:14.960
<v Speaker 2>Phil had begun recording songs and then releasing them as

1:00:15.680 --> 1:00:19.440
<v Speaker 2>band songs without any of them having been on the song.

1:00:20.280 --> 1:00:23.200
<v Speaker 2>He didn't, He didn't care. He was just like, they're

1:00:23.240 --> 1:00:27.840
<v Speaker 2>all replaceable to me. You're all just you're all just singers.

1:00:27.880 --> 1:00:30.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't care about you at all, especially you're all

1:00:30.720 --> 1:00:34.200
<v Speaker 2>female singers. You are all female singers. I will just

1:00:34.240 --> 1:00:36.160
<v Speaker 2>replace it. He never does this to a man, not

1:00:36.200 --> 1:00:39.520
<v Speaker 2>in his entire career. But to women he does this.

1:00:42.720 --> 1:00:49.600
<v Speaker 1>Oh, just like two less obvious man Jesus.

1:00:48.400 --> 1:00:51.280
<v Speaker 3>I would I would have put I don't care what day.

1:00:51.360 --> 1:00:53.080
<v Speaker 3>I would have punched him in this face. I would

1:00:54.080 --> 1:00:55.120
<v Speaker 3>I would have looked him.

1:00:55.040 --> 1:00:57.840
<v Speaker 2>At eye level and bring that up.

1:00:58.280 --> 1:01:02.280
<v Speaker 4>Yes, I'm glad to bring that up. Good because.

1:01:03.480 --> 1:01:07.640
<v Speaker 2>Another tick in the fill is seriously like uncomfortable without

1:01:08.320 --> 1:01:12.360
<v Speaker 2>his gun comes from the lead singer of the Crystals

1:01:12.360 --> 1:01:13.000
<v Speaker 2>And I forget her name.

1:01:13.000 --> 1:01:15.360
<v Speaker 4>I'm sorry. I hack in a fraud just like you.

1:01:15.440 --> 1:01:16.680
<v Speaker 4>So I forgot her name.

1:01:16.920 --> 1:01:20.000
<v Speaker 2>But she tells a story in this documentary to watch

1:01:20.040 --> 1:01:22.480
<v Speaker 2>where she's like, yeah, I saw that, and I was like, okay.

1:01:22.520 --> 1:01:24.360
<v Speaker 2>So she goes and she talks to this mobster that

1:01:24.440 --> 1:01:27.000
<v Speaker 2>she knows, and this mobster goes out and just beats

1:01:27.080 --> 1:01:31.960
<v Speaker 2>the dog piss out of film, and it's like, hey, like,

1:01:32.000 --> 1:01:36.320
<v Speaker 2>if you ever do comrade mobs? Yeah, yeah, hey man.

1:01:36.560 --> 1:01:41.280
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes organized crime has his purpose, let's be fair, you know, so.

1:01:41.680 --> 1:01:43.280
<v Speaker 1>Often more reliable than the government.

1:01:44.560 --> 1:01:46.280
<v Speaker 3>Wait, what was the name of the documentary you were

1:01:46.320 --> 1:01:47.040
<v Speaker 3>just talking about.

1:01:47.920 --> 1:01:52.920
<v Speaker 2>This is from the Agony in the Ecstasy of Phil Specter. Okay, cool.

1:01:53.160 --> 1:01:59.080
<v Speaker 2>So he has a bunch of successes. Zippity dudah, be

1:01:59.200 --> 1:02:02.280
<v Speaker 2>my Baby with the nets. You've lost that love and

1:02:02.320 --> 1:02:07.160
<v Speaker 2>feeling with the righteous brothers. He is on top of

1:02:07.520 --> 1:02:08.360
<v Speaker 2>the world.

1:02:08.480 --> 1:02:11.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Jesus, be my Baby. He has that one in

1:02:11.880 --> 1:02:12.840
<v Speaker 1>an uber last night.

1:02:12.880 --> 1:02:15.360
<v Speaker 3>Actually, yeah, be my Baby. He's on the my I

1:02:15.440 --> 1:02:18.439
<v Speaker 3>have a vinyl from the Dirty Dancing soundtrack and it's

1:02:18.480 --> 1:02:18.880
<v Speaker 3>on there.

1:02:19.480 --> 1:02:24.000
<v Speaker 2>It's so good, very funny story. Years later, Phil Spector

1:02:24.880 --> 1:02:27.600
<v Speaker 2>he was asked by Martin Scorsese to use be My

1:02:27.680 --> 1:02:30.520
<v Speaker 2>Baby for the opening of Cocaine Cowboy. I think it

1:02:30.600 --> 1:02:31.200
<v Speaker 2>was the one.

1:02:31.240 --> 1:02:33.800
<v Speaker 4>Anyway, it's the opening of it. It's be my Baby.

1:02:33.800 --> 1:02:35.480
<v Speaker 2>They do a whole thing, and he's asked and he's

1:02:35.520 --> 1:02:37.760
<v Speaker 2>like no, and then they do it anyway and he

1:02:37.840 --> 1:02:38.560
<v Speaker 2>and he sees it.

1:02:38.560 --> 1:02:40.240
<v Speaker 4>It comes out. John Lennon shows it to him, and

1:02:40.280 --> 1:02:41.440
<v Speaker 4>he sees it, and he comes out and he's like,

1:02:42.520 --> 1:02:44.080
<v Speaker 4>what the hell outdn't toe him? They could do that,

1:02:44.200 --> 1:02:44.520
<v Speaker 4>you know.

1:02:44.520 --> 1:02:47.680
<v Speaker 2>And so he gets all mad and then he sues him,

1:02:47.720 --> 1:02:49.400
<v Speaker 2>of course, which you know is fair or whatever.

1:02:49.440 --> 1:02:52.200
<v Speaker 4>That's fair. That's fair, song of affirmation, that's fair. You

1:02:52.240 --> 1:02:52.760
<v Speaker 4>suit him.

1:02:52.840 --> 1:02:54.560
<v Speaker 2>But then he goes on for the rest of his

1:02:54.600 --> 1:02:58.840
<v Speaker 2>life and tells everybody I made Scorsese with that mad.

1:02:59.640 --> 1:03:02.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, all right, that was a bit of a.

1:03:02.320 --> 1:03:06.520
<v Speaker 2>Dick for the rest of his life. Think that's why,

1:03:07.320 --> 1:03:11.200
<v Speaker 2>and that at the pinnacle of Phil's success is where

1:03:11.240 --> 1:03:16.040
<v Speaker 2>we will leave this episode. Robert, how do you how

1:03:16.040 --> 1:03:17.200
<v Speaker 2>do you feel about Phil so far?

1:03:17.240 --> 1:03:18.480
<v Speaker 4>I mean, he's a little bit of a dick, but

1:03:18.680 --> 1:03:20.440
<v Speaker 4>you know, he's hit some bangers.

1:03:20.560 --> 1:03:23.040
<v Speaker 1>He hit some bangers so far, he just sounds like

1:03:23.080 --> 1:03:25.040
<v Speaker 1>an asshole, is really good at his job.

1:03:25.640 --> 1:03:28.640
<v Speaker 3>I didn't know all that shit about his mom and a.

1:03:28.720 --> 1:03:31.120
<v Speaker 1>Huge misogynist who screws over female.

1:03:31.520 --> 1:03:34.440
<v Speaker 3>Uh yeah, I would I would have punched.

1:03:35.600 --> 1:03:38.160
<v Speaker 2>I say again, it's like if this was if this

1:03:38.280 --> 1:03:40.800
<v Speaker 2>was the end, right, you'd be like, I mean not

1:03:40.840 --> 1:03:47.000
<v Speaker 2>really bastard worthy, Like he's sucks. But there's no shortage

1:03:47.000 --> 1:03:49.320
<v Speaker 2>of those people in the music industry, right, It's like

1:03:49.440 --> 1:03:53.120
<v Speaker 2>there really is. Yeah, there's no shortage of horrible people

1:03:53.120 --> 1:03:55.360
<v Speaker 2>in the music industry. Like I meet them all the

1:03:55.400 --> 1:03:57.240
<v Speaker 2>time and then I'm like, cool, this is why I

1:03:57.240 --> 1:03:58.360
<v Speaker 2>stopped working with labels.

1:03:58.400 --> 1:04:01.880
<v Speaker 4>I'm going back to my studio. Yeah, but it is.

1:04:02.520 --> 1:04:04.040
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of them, right, and you know it's

1:04:04.400 --> 1:04:07.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's tough too, is for every awful person

1:04:07.760 --> 1:04:10.200
<v Speaker 2>I meet in the music industry, I meet a legend

1:04:10.200 --> 1:04:12.720
<v Speaker 2>that I'm like, you're the nicest person I've ever met,

1:04:12.760 --> 1:04:15.480
<v Speaker 2>and like, how are you this good and this cool

1:04:16.200 --> 1:04:20.520
<v Speaker 2>and this person not that good and way shitty?

1:04:20.640 --> 1:04:22.160
<v Speaker 4>Like I don't understand it.

1:04:22.600 --> 1:04:25.040
<v Speaker 2>I'll never get it. It's there's a weird proportion in

1:04:25.080 --> 1:04:28.960
<v Speaker 2>that stuff. Wow, Robert, you could be founded. I right, okay,

1:04:29.320 --> 1:04:33.720
<v Speaker 2>which I can't think yeah, uh you. I like to

1:04:33.760 --> 1:04:36.920
<v Speaker 2>think of it more as like like you telling your

1:04:36.960 --> 1:04:39.800
<v Speaker 2>parents back in like the the early two thousands why

1:04:39.840 --> 1:04:43.600
<v Speaker 2>you can't move back home and why you're having success

1:04:43.600 --> 1:04:44.440
<v Speaker 2>in Los Angeles, and.

1:04:44.400 --> 1:04:45.840
<v Speaker 4>You're like, I write, Okay, you.

1:04:45.760 --> 1:04:46.360
<v Speaker 2>Know, it's just.

1:04:49.600 --> 1:04:54.080
<v Speaker 1>Exhaustive explaining what I do for a living.

1:04:52.320 --> 1:04:58.320
<v Speaker 3>To be okay, yeah, just go away.

1:04:59.120 --> 1:05:02.400
<v Speaker 2>I can be found at at Greasy Will Grease at

1:05:02.400 --> 1:05:03.160
<v Speaker 2>Greasy Will Music.

1:05:03.200 --> 1:05:05.400
<v Speaker 4>You can just google me. I'm like on the internet.

1:05:06.000 --> 1:05:06.720
<v Speaker 6>I have it.

1:05:07.400 --> 1:05:10.000
<v Speaker 2>I have a recording course. If you want to learn

1:05:10.040 --> 1:05:12.720
<v Speaker 2>about how to record from a Grammy Award winning engineer,

1:05:12.760 --> 1:05:14.760
<v Speaker 2>I have one. It can be found at greasy does

1:05:14.800 --> 1:05:16.680
<v Speaker 2>it dot com or you can just google me, or

1:05:16.720 --> 1:05:19.320
<v Speaker 2>you can go to my I'm on the internet, man,

1:05:19.440 --> 1:05:22.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm on the Internet, Like, it can't be that hard there.

1:05:23.040 --> 1:05:24.440
<v Speaker 1>It's easy to find people.

1:05:25.400 --> 1:05:28.400
<v Speaker 2>I feel like you guys will be fine tracking it's

1:05:28.440 --> 1:05:30.160
<v Speaker 2>a Z. It's not with an S. I get a

1:05:30.200 --> 1:05:32.200
<v Speaker 2>lot of greasy wheels and that kind of does make

1:05:32.200 --> 1:05:34.720
<v Speaker 2>me a different guy, because a guy I want to

1:05:34.760 --> 1:05:35.160
<v Speaker 2>meet him.

1:05:35.760 --> 1:05:38.760
<v Speaker 3>I mean, if you told this on the podcast, who

1:05:38.920 --> 1:05:40.800
<v Speaker 3>gave you the name greasy Will.

1:05:42.360 --> 1:05:47.760
<v Speaker 4>Pharrell exactly? It's very cool, very cool.

1:05:48.120 --> 1:05:49.000
<v Speaker 2>It was very cool.

1:05:49.440 --> 1:05:50.240
<v Speaker 4>It's super cool.

1:05:51.640 --> 1:05:54.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, this is the end of the episode. Friends,

1:05:54.720 --> 1:06:01.200
<v Speaker 3>We'll be back, We'll be back. Behind the Bastards is

1:06:01.200 --> 1:06:03.600
<v Speaker 3>a production of cool Zone Media. For more from cool

1:06:03.680 --> 1:06:07.240
<v Speaker 3>Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check

1:06:07.320 --> 1:06:10.280
<v Speaker 3>us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1:06:10.360 --> 1:06:13.640
<v Speaker 3>you get your podcasts. Full video episodes a Behind the

1:06:13.680 --> 1:06:17.040
<v Speaker 3>Bastards are now streaming on Netflix, dropping every Tuesday and Thursday.

1:06:17.320 --> 1:06:20.000
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1:06:20.240 --> 1:06:23.360
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1:06:23.360 --> 1:06:26.560
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1:06:26.560 --> 1:06:31.040
<v Speaker 3>the Bastards. We love about forty percent of you, statistically speaking,