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Speaker 1: Also media, Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, Ladies, gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: gentle bems, h and all points in between. This is

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Speaker 1: a podcast about the very worst people in all of history,

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Speaker 1: and normally it's a podcast where I, the host, Robert Evans,

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Speaker 1: read a story about the very worst people in all

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Speaker 1: of history to a guest who generally comes in cold,

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Speaker 1: not always. Yeah. Yeah, I've been doing this eight years.

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Speaker 1: You know, you know the drill, thunk.

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Speaker 2: You've figured it out by now. Even I know the

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Speaker 2: drill by now.

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Speaker 1: And regular listeners will recognize the voice of my dear

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Speaker 1: friend Greasy Will, the Grammy Award winning Greasy Will.

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Speaker 3: Hey, fuddy, what's up?

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Speaker 4: How's it going. I'm very excited to be here and.

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Speaker 2: Today if you we are going to flip the rolls right,

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Speaker 2: and I'm gonna tell you about about somebody who's very

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Speaker 2: near and dear to my a bastard of the music industry.

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Speaker 4: And I'm very excited about this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I have a question first, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Greasy, Well,

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Speaker 3: who I love my buddy. Uh do you know where

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Speaker 3: this is being streamed right now?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 4: We are we well on Netflix?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, our good buddy Greasy Will here. The second we

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Speaker 3: announced that we were going to be streaming video episodes

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Speaker 3: on Netflix, commented sellouts, So what does that make you?

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Speaker 1: That's what I my friend of fifteen years.

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Speaker 4: When I was a.

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Speaker 2: Kid, being a sellout was an insult. But now, as

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Speaker 2: an adult the world that we're in, being a sellout

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Speaker 2: just means you successful.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's exciting for me.

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Speaker 3: Just means you get to buy the good produce.

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Speaker 1: Are there other ways I made money in the path

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Speaker 1: that I might have preferred more? Are there different ways

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Speaker 1: to you know? This is the this is the future

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Speaker 1: we've been given.

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Speaker 2: Look, look you're talking to a guy who All right,

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Speaker 2: So I have a course, a recording course that I made,

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Speaker 2: and recently I posted this ad that I had made

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Speaker 2: with a high quality camera like the one you're viewing

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Speaker 2: me on right now.

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Speaker 4: If you are in fact viewing.

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Speaker 2: Me, I high quality camera and all the comments where

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Speaker 2: people like greasy and high death is weird.

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Speaker 4: I don't like it, So welcome.

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Speaker 3: To our lives.

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Speaker 2: Specifically, like I do not do high quality in anything

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Speaker 2: I do in music, I mean in anything.

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Speaker 1: It's perfect well, because I've reached the peak of my

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Speaker 1: success as a professional in an audio medium. And you

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Speaker 1: also reached the peak of your success as a professional

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Speaker 1: in an audio medium. Yes, and the powers that be,

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Speaker 1: in their wisdom, decided we got to put these guys

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Speaker 1: on TV. People need to see their faces. For some reason,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. When we moved to Netflix, a surprising

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Speaker 1: number of people were just based on confusion or based

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Speaker 1: on the fact that it changed from YouTube, were like,

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize that many people were watching the podcast, right,

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Speaker 1: But we have. We've been working on it. We have

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Speaker 1: gotten it to where audio episodes of the show are

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Speaker 1: back on YouTube music. So if you listen to the

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Speaker 1: show that way, I know there was there was confusion.

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Speaker 1: Things got disrupted there for a while, but from now

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Speaker 1: on that should be normal. And initially a lot of

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Speaker 1: our international viewers were cut out because it was Netflix

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Speaker 1: wasn't letting it wasn't our show wasn't available internationally.

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Speaker 4: Damn region specific broadcasts. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now our show is available on most of the places

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Speaker 1: that Netflix serves.

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Speaker 3: Worldwide, baby Vietnam and Korea for reasons I don't know.

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Speaker 1: So the Aussie's out there, you can you can watch

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Speaker 1: now if you've got Netflix. I don't know. Again of

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Speaker 1: the audience listens because it's a fucking podcast. So hopefully

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Speaker 1: none of this should be changing for most of you.

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Speaker 1: Who are we hearing about today? Will who? What piece

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Speaker 1: of shit are you going to tell me about? I know?

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Speaker 4: But so let me ask you this. Let me ask

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Speaker 4: you this first.

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Speaker 2: Uh, if you had a mount rushmore of horrible music

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Speaker 2: people right like whoever you.

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Speaker 4: Could think of? Who? Who's Who's your George Washington.

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Speaker 1: It's it's gotta be Michael Jackson, because Michael's the perfect

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Speaker 1: mix of that man's music. You simply can't cut his

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Speaker 1: music out of popular culture and have it make sense.

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Speaker 1: There's too big a gap like his he he made,

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Speaker 1: the impact he made is there, and a bunch of

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Speaker 1: his music is immortal and also definitely raped a bunch

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Speaker 1: of kids.

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Speaker 4: Ton of Yes, just like my bas bastard.

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Speaker 3: Maybe yeah, I can give I can give my four?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, go ahead, Sophie.

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Speaker 3: My four, Michael Jackson, R Kelly P. Diddy and the

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Speaker 3: subject of this episode.

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Speaker 4: That's all right.

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Speaker 2: So I'm gonna tell y'all, I don't think the subject

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Speaker 2: of my episode makes it on on the Bastard's uh

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Speaker 2: a mount rushmore iry And here's.

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Speaker 4: And here's why. Here's why.

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Speaker 2: Because you you want to hear because number one is

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Speaker 2: Ian Watkins. Do you guys know who Ian Watkins is? No,

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Speaker 2: Ian Watkins was recently just actually I was going to

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Speaker 2: bring this up even before, but Ian Watkins was recently

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Speaker 2: murdered in prison. Because they don't like those those types

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Speaker 2: of people who do those things to infants.

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Speaker 1: Infants.

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Speaker 2: He was the singer Lost, Yeah, he was the singer

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Speaker 2: of Lost Prophets and.

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Speaker 1: This guy.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So it was interesting that you might because I

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Speaker 2: do have a question in my overall thesis in discussing

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Speaker 2: this person is when is it bad enough to cut

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Speaker 2: somebody out?

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Speaker 4: And when does their music overshadow.

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Speaker 2: The big the big picture, right, because we so often

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Speaker 2: in the music industry, we we will give people weird passes.

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Speaker 2: Weird people get weird passes just because they're good at something.

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Speaker 2: You know, they're good at making noise. That's kind of

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Speaker 2: ridiculous to me. I do not I do not think

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Speaker 2: that makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 1: But people, really, you're allowed to molest fifteen years, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: or younger.

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Speaker 4: So our subject today is somebody who I think is.

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Speaker 2: Horrible, and you will hear a lot of evidence to

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Speaker 2: uh to that effect, back that up. Yes, But but

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Speaker 2: our subject today is Phil Spector, Phil Spector.

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Speaker 4: Do you know about Phil Spector at all? Like? What

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Speaker 4: do you know about?

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Speaker 1: Here's here's how much I know about Phil Spector. In

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Speaker 1: order to even listen to this podcast, I had to

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Speaker 1: make make sure I had a gun on me like

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Speaker 1: that Christ, because I know Phil's bringing one.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, Phil is definitely bringing a gun to the

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Speaker 2: party for sure.

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Speaker 3: Okay, all right, let's do it.

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Speaker 4: This will be our episode today.

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Speaker 2: We're we're we're gonna talk about Phil Spector.

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Speaker 4: Boom, cold open. Done. We did it.

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Speaker 1: We're done, We're opened.

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Speaker 3: Look at you, prettiest girl at the party. I love it?

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Speaker 2: All right, are you guys ready to hear about Phil Spector?

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Speaker 1: I was born ready, well, actually I was born bloody

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Speaker 1: with the cord wrapped around my neck, but also ready.

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Speaker 2: What were you? Were you in fact a cord baby?

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Speaker 2: That explains a lot.

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Speaker 4: I think I don't remember.

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Speaker 1: I was in labor for like seventy hours. Something was

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Speaker 1: wrong with me.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I think I was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she had a chip on her shoulder about that.

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Speaker 1: It might have just been forty eight hours. It was

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Speaker 1: like a long time.

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Speaker 3: And and and in perfect comparison of our relationship. My

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Speaker 3: mom was in labor with me for less than an hour.

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Speaker 2: I think my mom had me inside of the back

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Speaker 2: of a pickup truck, but I don't know, like a camper.

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Speaker 4: Maybe I think, yeah, yeah, you can.

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Speaker 1: You are one of my friends most likely to be

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Speaker 1: born inside of a pickup truck. My god, Yes, it

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Speaker 1: was an honor.

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Speaker 2: So first off, I want to say, uh, this is

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Speaker 2: why I picked Phil Spector, and because I am in

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Speaker 2: personally a very big fan of his work. It is

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Speaker 2: it has informed a lot of my work as a musician,

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Speaker 2: as a producer, as an engineer. I I love Phil

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Speaker 2: Spector's work. To me, it was it was so groundbreaking

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Speaker 2: for the time for many reasons. And there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of like future of music that came from where he

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Speaker 2: was at, you know. And I like to do that

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Speaker 2: game of like, oh well, I like the Beatles, and

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Speaker 2: the Beatles were really influenced by like what Brian Wilson

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Speaker 2: and the Beach Boys were doing.

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Speaker 4: And Brian Wilson loved Phil Spector.

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Speaker 2: Right, And so it's like, if you are a Beatles fan,

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Speaker 2: you not only have heard Phil Spector's work, you've also uh,

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Speaker 2: you've also like been influenced by him indirectly through them

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Speaker 2: loving you know, the chain of command that it was

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Speaker 2: right or chain of Cutso yeah, yes, yes, so Harvey

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Speaker 2: Phillips Spector. His name was not phil original Harvey.

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Speaker 4: Harvey was his name.

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Speaker 2: Harvey Phillip Spector was born on December twenty sixth, nineteen

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Speaker 2: thirty nine, in the Bronx, New York. That's at least

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Speaker 2: what the birth record say. His mom claimed that he

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Speaker 2: was born on Christmas Day because she honestly and truly

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Speaker 2: I think maybe believe that he was the second coming

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Speaker 2: of Christ.

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Speaker 4: That was actually like she was just really really like indo.

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Speaker 1: So okay.

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Speaker 2: He he had an older sister, Shirley, and an older

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Speaker 2: brother who died just days after being born, who was

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Speaker 2: born just before him, which is a bit why he

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Speaker 2: got the ultimate Jewish mother protection system going on over

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Speaker 2: him for his whole childhood.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so he is. He is wrapped up. There's a

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Speaker 1: wall between him and the real world.

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Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely absolutely.

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Speaker 2: There are unconfirmed theories regarding Specter's extended family structures. Some

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Speaker 2: biographical accounts suggests his parents may have been closely related,

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Speaker 2: possible even first cousins, though this has never been definitively proven,

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Speaker 2: but he said it all the time.

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Speaker 4: He would tell people this. He'd be like, my parents

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Speaker 4: were cousins.

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Speaker 2: It was like, all right, like I guess randomly at

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Speaker 2: like lunch on a Tuesday or something, he's bringing this

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Speaker 2: stuff up. Oh yeah, yeah. What is well documented is

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Speaker 2: that both sides of his family were Jewish immigrants whose

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Speaker 2: families fled. Let's take a break real quick, Robert, Uh,

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Speaker 2: you want to playing guess the country his Jewish relatives

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Speaker 2: had to escape in the late eighteen hundreds to early

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Speaker 2: nineteen ones.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with Poland.

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Speaker 2: Oh so close, very close, very close. Uh pot, probably

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Speaker 2: we don't know exactly, but probably Belarus or oh yeah yeah,

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Speaker 2: or or Ukraine to Ukraine to possible.

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Speaker 4: So, yeah, you're you're in the right the right area.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people who are like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: exactly what country they were in, and part because it

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Speaker 1: was several years over the period of time they lived there.

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Speaker 2: That's literally the description that's most often given is Eastern Europe.

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Speaker 4: They fled Eastern Europe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he lived under three or four governments.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So you know, this is a very

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Speaker 2: classic early nineteen hundred's American tale of you know, Jewish

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Speaker 2: immigrant families leaving their country because of the anti Semitic

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Speaker 2: programs going on, and then coming to America, settling in

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Speaker 2: New York in a very Jewish neighborhood, or being surrounded

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Speaker 2: by other Jews who had.

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Speaker 4: Escaped these same situations.

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Speaker 2: So obviously some generational trauma going on for sure to

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Speaker 2: start off, and also family trauma and also some questionable

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Speaker 2: things going on with his mother already, you know.

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Speaker 4: As far as her mental stability is.

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Speaker 2: So. As a child, Specter was described as overweight and

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Speaker 2: physically fragile. He struggled with recurring health problems and was

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Speaker 2: often encouraged to stay indoors rather than participate in sports

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Speaker 2: or outdoor activities. Developed a strong dislike for beaches, athletics

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Speaker 2: and physical competition, and any environment where he felt exposed

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Speaker 2: and inadequate. Over time, his body changed. Yeah, yeah, he

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Speaker 2: hates beaches.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's my favorite bit of that old thing. He's like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know what, I hate beach. You are not Ken,

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Speaker 3: Phil Spector. Your job is not beach.

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Speaker 4: Okay, no joke.

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Speaker 2: Like multiple times throughout any of the biographies that you

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Speaker 2: read about him, it's brought up that he doesn't like beaches,

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Speaker 2: specifically beaches. He's like, oh yeah, Phil wouldn't go to

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Speaker 2: Venice because there was a beach close by.

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Speaker 4: Like he was like mad about it, all right, brouh.

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Speaker 2: As he entered adolescent, he lost weight dramatically, and he

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Speaker 2: became notably small and slight in stature. Instead of solving

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Speaker 2: his insecurities, this transformation reinforced them. He remained physically unimposing,

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Speaker 2: ill suited for sports, and deeply self conscious about his

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Speaker 2: appearance and masculinity. As an adult, he would always joke that,

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Speaker 2: like when they were picking sports teams that he was he.

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Speaker 4: Wanted to be the manager.

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Speaker 2: I'm the manager of the team today, you know, like

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Speaker 2: right from because he's like, I'm not gonna I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: play sports.

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Speaker 4: Is ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: What a weird little guy.

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Speaker 2: When Phil was nine years old, his father, Benjamin Specter,

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Speaker 2: died by suicide. Oh yeah, we are going to have

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Speaker 2: some classic bastard style empathy to start off our show today.

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Speaker 1: He's having a difficult start of things.

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Speaker 4: Yes, he's had it, he's had it rough.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure this won't make him a monster.

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Speaker 4: Spoiler alert.

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Speaker 2: Uh, his dad killed himself, So basically the stories.

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Speaker 4: His dad left, left the factory.

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Speaker 2: He was like a metal worker, and he left the

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Speaker 2: factory and started driving home and just parked a couple

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Speaker 2: of blocks away, put a hose in his tailpipe and

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Speaker 2: started sucking on some carbon monoxide fumes in his uh,

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Speaker 2: in his car. Yeah, and they don't know, they don't

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Speaker 2: really even know why he did it, Like he had

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Speaker 2: financial stress, but you know he was done.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it was.

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Speaker 2: It was the right time for that to be a

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Speaker 2: normal thing, you know, uh, financial stress, business failures, depression,

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Speaker 2: they've all been cited possible mental illness as well, Like

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Speaker 2: there seems to be a very strong prevalence of that

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Speaker 2: in Phil's life. Whatever the cause, the event shattered the

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Speaker 2: whole family, right, so Bertha Specter becomes the central force

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Speaker 2: in Phil's life, tightening a grip on her son's emotional

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Speaker 2: and developmental trajectory. Alongside it was Phil's older sister, Shirley,

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Speaker 2: who would exhibit as much control over his issues over

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Speaker 2: Phil as his mother did. Both of them would emotionally

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Speaker 2: abuse Phil often. His mother would often disparage his father

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Speaker 2: and blame young Phil for his death. So she's like

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Speaker 2: over there, like, your your dad killed himself. Because of you.

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Speaker 2: Before you, he was happy, and then you came along,

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Speaker 2: and then he killed.

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Speaker 1: Him, and the best thing for kids, right, giving you

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Speaker 1: that sense of agency, and you killed your dad, and

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Speaker 1: you anything you put your mind to, including kill your parents,

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Speaker 1: which you already did, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, very impressive, bro, I couldn't kill my parents, all right.

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Speaker 2: So she treated his father's death as a source of

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Speaker 2: family shame as well too, So it was like she

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Speaker 2: never told the truth about it to anybody, Like if

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Speaker 2: she met somebody and they're like, oh, oh, he's off

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Speaker 2: in Europe on business, or he died in the war.

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Speaker 2: Like she's always like just making up other things and

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Speaker 2: not saying, oh, yeah, he, you know, killed himself for whatever,

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Speaker 2: which I mean, I guess I kind of.

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Speaker 4: Understand, you know.

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Speaker 2: It's not like I'm like, yeah, dude, mom, step mom

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Speaker 2: killed herself, which is facts, you know.

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Speaker 4: I guess I just did announce it to the world. Nevermind.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, obviously not a great start to life. He's

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Speaker 2: fall he's frail, he's his dad kills himself. His mom

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Speaker 2: and his sister are both super possessive and controlling over him.

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Speaker 2: Pretty bastard'sy start to the story. Not long After Benjamin's death,

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Speaker 2: Bertha relocated the family across the country to Los Angeles.

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Speaker 2: This is where Phil decides he absolutely hates being called

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Speaker 2: Harvey and he starts going.

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Speaker 4: By his middle name Phil Cool.

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Speaker 1: All right.

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Speaker 2: The move placed them in the predominantly Jewish neighborhood of Fairfax,

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Speaker 2: which this is just a stupid little aside, but all

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Speaker 2: the kids called it, like in the neighborhoods called it

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Speaker 2: fairy facts because it was like like.

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Speaker 4: The weakest school around.

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Speaker 2: They were like, so he's like the he's like the

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Speaker 2: weakest kid at the weakest school.

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Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, they're.

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Speaker 1: Calling his school. They're basically calling his school gay, and

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Speaker 1: like the parlance of the times.

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Speaker 3: She was absolutely not true when I was in high

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Speaker 3: school because Fairfax beat our ass at basketball.

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Speaker 1: It's good to hear the thing.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it's turns out money does something

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Speaker 2: long term shocking. So Phil struggled to make friends outside

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Speaker 2: a small circle of family and school acquaintances, and he

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Speaker 2: remains socially awkward and intensely sensitive and deeply dependent on

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Speaker 2: maternal approval, obviously on account of his mom and the

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Speaker 2: way she is.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the mommy is his only.

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Speaker 2: Advancement into social normalcy came as a result of his musicianship.

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Speaker 2: He was said to be able to play any song

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Speaker 2: that you heard on the hear it on the radio

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Speaker 2: and could play it immediately like he could just drew start,

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Speaker 2: like playing along before the song even finished.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: During this time, Phil found himself his first real girlfriend,

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Speaker 2: a girl named Donna Cass Donna believed. Donna recalled Phil

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Speaker 2: being very intelligent but intensely possessive. He would call to

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Speaker 2: places he believed she was and question the people there

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Speaker 2: about her whereabouts, and when he found her, he would

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Speaker 2: grill her about what she'd been doing. Right, She said

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Speaker 2: she believes this was his nature because it was what

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Speaker 2: Bertha and Shirley did to him whenever he was at home. Right,

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Speaker 2: she said, this is from Breaking Down the Wall Sound.

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Speaker 2: By the way, this will be my primary source for

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Speaker 2: almost everything. Nick Brown wrote an amazing book, Breaking Down

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Speaker 2: the Wall of Sound.

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Speaker 4: It's really really good.

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Speaker 2: We'll touch on some stuff about it later, but that

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00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,560
Speaker 2: and Ronnie Spector's book, which was Be My Baby, which

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00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,080
Speaker 2: is amazing. I highly recommend reading the audio or hearing

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Speaker 2: the audio book of that because it's narrated by Rosie Perez.

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Speaker 2: Which is, oh my god. Yeah, it's amazing to listen

363
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,320
Speaker 2: to Rosie Perez narrate this whole story because she's like,

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Speaker 2: you know, she's like, you know, she's got that whole thing.

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Speaker 4: It's amazing. It's really good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: From breaking down the Wall of Sound quote to Donna,

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00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:25,919
Speaker 2: it was as if Bertha and Shirley saw her as

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Speaker 2: a rival for Phil's affections, who was trying to steal

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Speaker 2: him away from them. She says, I always felt they

371
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,600
Speaker 2: were in love with him or something. They treated him

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Speaker 2: like he was a god. They protected him, and they

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00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,679
Speaker 2: wanted to protect him from me weird. So so this

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Speaker 2: is like fifteen, sixteen years old, he's already intensely like

375
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,520
Speaker 2: they barely even had phones, and this dude is calling around,

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00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,879
Speaker 2: checking on his girlfriend everywhere she goes and like making

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Speaker 2: sure her story matches at like, you know, into like

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Speaker 2: fifteen right, unhinged. I think it's you know, yeah, Well,

379
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,840
Speaker 2: and here's the thing is this is something that I

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Speaker 2: think is a lot of musicians are weirdos.

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Speaker 4: Right, It's like there's a certain thing that goes along.

382
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Speaker 2: With being a weirdo and being like that kind of

383
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,880
Speaker 2: musical genius that people can like that you can hear

384
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,040
Speaker 2: a song and you know, and play it the first

385
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,680
Speaker 2: time you heard it, right, there's something that's like kind

386
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,760
Speaker 2: of hand in hand with the two personalities that kind

387
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,040
Speaker 2: of seem to go together a lot of times. So

388
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Speaker 2: it's not weird to be weird, right, It's not weird

389
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,119
Speaker 2: to be small, it's not weird to be skinny. It's like,

390
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,120
Speaker 2: I know a lot of those people in the music industry,

391
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:35,920
Speaker 2: but it is weird to be possessive and and shitty,

392
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,399
Speaker 2: you know, and like and treat you know, and have

393
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 2: a pattern against women, which we'll see in this in

394
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:46,320
Speaker 2: this whole thing. So during his teenage years in Los Angeles,

395
00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 2: Specter became obsessed with guitars. Barney Kessel one of the

396
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 2: most respected and accomplished session musicians working in the recording industry.

397
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,240
Speaker 2: Kessel was a jazz guitarist, but it will often go

398
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Speaker 2: on to play pop hits of the day and eventually

399
00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,680
Speaker 2: became part of the legendary Wrecking Crew. If you know

400
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 2: about out Hollywood music in this time, the Wrecking Crew

401
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 2: is everything they wrote, they played on every single song

402
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,320
Speaker 2: in the late fifties and early sixties all the way

403
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 2: to the seventies pretty much.

404
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:11,920
Speaker 4: They were the band you heard in the back of it.

405
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,440
Speaker 2: So Phil respected in both for his mastery of jazz

406
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,399
Speaker 2: and his seamless transition to other genres. At one point,

407
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 2: Specter was given the opportunity to meet his idol. The

408
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,240
Speaker 2: meeting did not unfold as he had imagined. Bertha his

409
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 2: mother insisted on accompanying him during the conversation with his idol.

410
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, Bertha, she does it.

411
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Speaker 5: Man.

412
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:36,919
Speaker 2: During the conversation, she begins questioning Kessel about career prospects,

413
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:41,040
Speaker 2: financial stability, practical viability, like a career in music, all

414
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 2: this stuff. It's like like yeah, He's like he's there.

415
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, dude, I get to meet this guitarist,

416
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,879
Speaker 2: this legend. And she's like, well, what's the money like

417
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 2: in the job? You know, Like she's just taking over

418
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 2: control of this whole conversation, and Phil's just so embarrassed.

419
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,719
Speaker 2: Like this goes from being like, Oh, I get to

420
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Speaker 2: meet my hero and to like, I'm just really embarrassed.

421
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,679
Speaker 2: I'm really embarrassed that I'm sitting here having this conversation

422
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,920
Speaker 2: and this is just this is his mom. His mom

423
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 2: is in control of his life at all times. He's

424
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Speaker 2: always he's always stuck with that.

425
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 1: That's yeah, Okay, I did not realize, like knowing about

426
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,679
Speaker 1: like the later stage of Phil Spector's life, somewhat I

427
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 1: did not realize he started out dominated by his mom

428
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 1: to such an extent that.

429
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Speaker 4: Yes, that does. It ain't a scan, it does kind

430
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:29,680
Speaker 4: of scan.

431
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I mean it's not always true, right,

432
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Speaker 2: It's like a lot of times, a lot of times

433
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 2: people are just shitty people, right, But a lot of times,

434
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 2: if you look into it, it is kind of like

435
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:41,919
Speaker 2: when your dad when you're little, like, oh, he's just

436
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 2: beating you up because he's got a shitty home life

437
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,159
Speaker 2: and he's trying to So a lot of sometimes that

438
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 2: is true.

439
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 4: Sometimes they're just bullies, you know.

440
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,880
Speaker 2: But sometimes they just they got a shitty home life

441
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 2: and they're dealing with something that you can't possibly understand.

442
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 2: So by the mid nineteen fifties, Specter began forming musical

443
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 2: groups with classmates and neighborhood friends. Eventually, he helped create

444
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 2: a vocal trio called the Teddy Bears, consisting of Phil

445
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 2: and That Climbard and Marshall leab Teddy. The group formed

446
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 2: the Teddy Bears, Yeah and that's such a nineteen fifties

447
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 2: name too, Yeah, you know, yeah it is.

448
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,120
Speaker 4: So the group formed through teenage friendships.

449
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 2: They all went to the same school or whatever, and

450
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,919
Speaker 2: like they knew each other and so it was like

451
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 2: just a very high school organic situation, right. But then

452
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 2: Phil's sister Shirley forced her way into the.

453
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 4: Band as a manager.

454
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,199
Speaker 2: Right, She like immediately is like, as soon as they

455
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,199
Speaker 2: start having any success whatsoever, she forces her way into

456
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,679
Speaker 2: into the whole situation as the manager. And then when

457
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 2: Phil's like, no, I don't want you to be in

458
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 2: a managery, Mom's like, let him be the manager, pel,

459
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 2: you know, like immediately, yeah, immediately like takes his sister's side.

460
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 2: So and she has no idea what she's doing, of course,

461
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: so like she makes horrible decisions all over the place.

462
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 2: She's doing dumb stuff. But Phil is still He's the

463
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 2: architect of this whole thing. And he he writes this

464
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 2: amazing song right in nineteen fifty eight, well still in

465
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 2: high school, Spector wrote and produce a song title to

466
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 2: Know Him is to Love Him. This is where I'll

467
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 2: make my first entry and do evidence of Phil was

468
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 2: seriously fucked up, Like I had some fuck that was.

469
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 2: He was fucked up, right, This is where we're gonna

470
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 2: get into. Phil was seriously fucked up, Sophie, can you

471
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 2: show Robert the image of the gravestone there?

472
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: Yep, Okay, I'm saying it. Yeah. Ben Spector April twentieth,

473
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:38,679
Speaker 1: nineteen forty nine, father husband, Yeah, hell yeah, brilliant. To

474
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,479
Speaker 1: know him was to love him?

475
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 2: What was that? The name of Phil's song there was

476
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 2: To know him is to love him?

477
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 4: Philo.

478
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 1: Phil wrote, he doesn't have daddy issues. He's doing good.

479
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: He's fine.

480
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 2: Phil. Phil wrote a song and he talks later. He says,

481
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 2: this is this song is about death. You know, this

482
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 2: is a song about death, and nobody noticed because it's

483
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 2: framed in the nineteen fifties kind of you know.

484
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 4: To no, no.

485
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 2: Yes, very silly, but he had you know, nobody else

486
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 2: gets it. But if you listen to it, it's like, oh, okay, yeah.

487
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 3: You were kind of like a huge fucking hit.

488
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a huge hit. It was a huge hit.

489
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 4: It's very big deal.

490
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 2: It became a massive national hit, reaching number one on

491
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 2: Billboard charts. Part of its success came from side Bastard's appearance.

492
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 2: Dick Clark American Bandstand. Yes, that's right. Dick Clark is

493
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: a side bastard today. I'm not going to get deep

494
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 2: into him, but he basically invented Paola. People would pay

495
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 2: him to put bands on American Bandstand and it because

496
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 2: of him, like literally, like the that's what got out

497
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 2: of control eventually and caused like the biggest, you know,

498
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 2: one of the biggest scandals in the music industry for

499
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,360
Speaker 2: the longest times. Like you have to pay in order

500
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 2: to become successful. Yeah, thanks for creating that.

501
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

502
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 2: Uh so the success was astonishing, right given the band's youth.

503
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,360
Speaker 2: Phil is only seventeen at this time. He's a he's

504
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 2: a baby, right, So it's it's massive. Like Sophy said,

505
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 2: it was a number one hit across the country. It

506
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 2: was a huge song. Even today, it's still like a

507
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 2: kind of a big song like that. I looked up

508
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 2: and had like a couple hundred million streams or something.

509
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 2: It was insane. This experience kind of cemented because he

510
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 2: was the architect of this whole thing. He was the

511
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 2: boss of this whole situation. So this kind of cemented

512
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 2: like his like dominance in the studio. This is what

513
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 2: made him want to He was the producer on it.

514
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 2: At seventeen years old, you have a number one hit

515
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 2: in the country, your ego is probably gonna go a

516
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 2: little yeah, you know, yeah, it's certainly not so. But

517
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 2: this is where I'm gonna hit item number two. I

518
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 2: Phil Spector was seriously fucked up.

519
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 3: But before you do that, as the boss and the

520
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 3: producer of this podcast, you know what time it is.

521
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 2: Oh shit is advertised or some advertisse and you.

522
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 1: Know what none of our sponsors did is raise Phil Spector.

523
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: I feel confident saying that none of our advertisers helped

524
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: helped raise Phil Spector fairly certain I believe it.

525
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 4: I was really.

526
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 3: Curious where you were going with that.

527
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're back. Ah boy. I sure love those

528
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,479
Speaker 1: ads from I don't know, probably the Portland Police Bureau

529
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: and then some AI company.

530
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 4: I wish you'd get sponsored by a whiskey company. That

531
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 4: would be nice.

532
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 1: No, I wish I'll take your whiskey. I'll tell people

533
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: to drink it. I have no problem telling people, you know,

534
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,199
Speaker 1: to to drink. There's no health consequences to that. You know,

535
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: it's a lot healthier than gambling.

536
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 2: I actually tried it, like I was doing social media

537
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 2: for a little while where I was doing cocktails with

538
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 2: greasy like as like a thing, hoping like some company

539
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 2: would be like, hey, this guy's do an alcoholic content.

540
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 4: Work though that was the only reason to do it.

541
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 2: I literally just was like some free booze, you know, like,

542
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 2: let's subsidize this control.

543
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: You're just you're just throwing out like a fishing line

544
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: and hoping a brand picks up so you can drink

545
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: for free.

546
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 4: That's all I've ever wanted.

547
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: That's how the internet works. Now, all right, where are we?

548
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 2: All right? So, while on tour, Specter was allegedly cornered

549
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 2: by hostile individuals who mocked and humiliated him about being short,

550
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 2: being a nerd, being being short and nerdy, I mean.

551
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: Just being short and having glasses will cause you some

552
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: serious shit.

553
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so keep in mind too, like this is important.

554
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 4: He at adulthood was probably only like.

555
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 2: Five three, Like he did not I say he was little, geez,

556
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 2: he was real little, right, So, like, we don't know

557
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 2: if this story is true. It's very mythological bullshit type stuff.

558
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 2: But we don't know if this story is true, but

559
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 2: it absolutely if it is true, it makes a lot

560
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 2: of sense about who he would later become he was

561
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 2: physically restrained and urinated on during the encounter. The precise

562
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: details vary depending on the source, and it's like kind

563
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 2: of multiple biographies reference it.

564
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 4: He said it. He told this story later on.

565
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 1: He's like ganged up on by a bunch of guys

566
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: outside of a show who are making fun of him

567
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 1: because he's a short, little nerd, and they like hold

568
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 1: him down and piss on him.

569
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 2: It sounds like I think he's in the bathroom when

570
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 2: it happens. You like, like he goes in to go

571
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 2: to the bathroom after a show and they like attack

572
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 2: him in the bathroom or whatever. It's very like nineties

573
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 2: like teen high school movie type situation.

574
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's a hairy type deal. If heathers or

575
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: something like that's intense bullying. Yeah, they're pissing you.

576
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

577
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: If the story is accurate, it appears to have deeply

578
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 2: scarred him.

579
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, would Yeah, that's pretty bad.

580
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially when you think, like imagine where he's at

581
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 2: in this whole situation, Like he thinks he's.

582
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 4: Like made it, like he's on top of the world.

583
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: He's got a number one hit in and he's got money,

584
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: he's got success. People all over the country are seeing him,

585
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 2: come to see him play shows, and he just goes

586
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 2: to the bathroom, like walking off stage, probably one night,

587
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: and he gets jumped in the bathroom and pissed on,

588
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 2: Like that's.

589
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: Yike, Yeah, number on you. I think it's gonna make

590
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: him a better guy.

591
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, definitely not gonna make him a nice person.

592
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: All right. So, despite the group's success, fractures quickly appeared

593
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 2: within the Teddy Bears, and that Klimbard used her earnings

594
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 2: from the hit record to purchase a car, and not

595
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 2: long afterwards, she was involved in a serious accident that

596
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 2: left her hospitalized for an extended period. So she gets

597
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 2: a bunch of money, she gets a nice car.

598
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: She got one of those six fifty sixties cars. That's

599
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: just it's steel. There's no seat belts the car. All

600
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: of the force of the impact is transferred to you.

601
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably pre dating like like the National Traffic Safety

602
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 2: Board like requiring seatbelts by like twenty years.

603
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 4: At this point, I feel, yeah, I don't know.

604
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 2: So she gets in this horrible accident, and this is

605
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 2: kind of the nail in the coffin for the group.

606
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 2: But you know, she's and that says that, well, she's

607
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 2: in the hospital, she gets in this horrible accident, and

608
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: Phil doesn't call her or come by or anything. He

609
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 2: just that's it. That's just the end. She just he

610
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 2: just leaves, He just goes away, and that's it. There's

611
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 2: no band anymore, you know. So they're like high school friends.

612
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 2: This is very strange, you know, to like, uh see

613
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 2: to get this, you know, this far successful with your

614
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: high school friends. And there's no incident and it's not

615
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 2: like they didn't get along or anything like that. They

616
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 2: were all friends. And then he was just like, deuces,

617
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 2: I'm out of here.

618
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 3: Well do you think it like she could no longer

619
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 3: provide use to him? You think it was something like that,

620
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 3: or we really can't even speculate.

621
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 2: I think I think you're right on the path, Sophie.

622
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 2: I think you will find as we continue on. Anytime

623
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: somebody he stops serving their their usefulness to him, Phil

624
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 2: is done with him.

625
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 4: He just wipes them from his life.

626
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 6: Very friends, which spoiler alert, is the next person we're

627
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 6: going to talk about, Lester Sill Leicester sil This is

628
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 6: right after this time or during this time, and this

629
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 6: is when he made friends and a partnership with Lester Sill.

630
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 2: Lester Still was a decorated World War Two veteran who

631
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 2: fought in the Battle of the Bulch. He made his

632
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 2: way into the music industry after that. And despite what

633
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 2: you think, actually the nicest guy. Everybody's like, oh dude,

634
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 2: Susie walks in the room, he's the best. I love

635
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 2: this guy, you know, like this is like this is

636
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: like if.

637
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: You lived through the Battle of the Bulge, it's hard

638
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: to get like bent out of shape about the little things.

639
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 4: One would assume.

640
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 2: But also I met a lot of very disgruntled war

641
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 2: veterans in my time, and I've been like, why are

642
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,719
Speaker 2: you guys so mad? Bro, just like I don't know,

643
00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 2: get an addiction that helps out or something.

644
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: Get an addiction. That's always my advice to be.

645
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: So Lester took a liking to Phil and assumed a

646
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 2: fatherly role in his life. So uh, he like really

647
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 2: does step into Phil's life. Him and Bertha and Phil

648
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 2: start having problems at home. He lets Phil move in

649
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 2: with him. You know.

650
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 4: Uh. He gives them connections, he tell he introduces them

651
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 4: to people.

652
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 2: He tells everybody, this is this this killer of producer Phil,

653
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 2: Like he just like helping him out anywhere. And he

654
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: even sends him to Phoenix. I believe it was to

655
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 2: meet Lee Hazelwood. Lee Hazelwood at this time is a

656
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 2: really successful writer. He would later go on to write, Uh,

657
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: these boots are made for walking, which oh my girl,

658
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 2: said Sinatra, She's so beautiful.

659
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: That's one of the finest achievements of our species.

660
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, that song.

661
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 2: So he sends him to hang out with Lee Hazelwood,

662
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 2: and Lee Hazelwood hates him. Hazelwood, It's like this motherfucker

663
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 2: won't stop asking questions. He he's always like doing stuff.

664
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 2: He's like he's weird and he's just always around me and.

665
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 4: I don't like him.

666
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 2: And and he tells him never bring him back to

667
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 2: my studio.

668
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 4: I never want to see that guy again.

669
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, So so this is the kind of seems

670
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 2: like a pattern as we'll start to like emerge here.

671
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 4: Is that like either you love Phil or you are

672
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 4: like okay.

673
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 3: Guy, Yeah?

674
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, like yeah, that guy's the worst. So after this,

675
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 2: he moves on to a relationship with another girl. So

676
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 2: he breaks up with Donna cass or whatever. He moves

677
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 2: on to a relationship with another girl, Lynn Castle, but

678
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 2: it was short lived, as she couldn't stand as incessant

679
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 2: to interrogations. This quote, his behavior got too friggin crazy, too,

680
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 2: absolutely crazy.

681
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 4: Where are you what are you doing? Where are you going? Controlling?

682
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: So yeah, that sounds right.

683
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 2: So this is clearly a pattern. He is absolutely controlling.

684
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: He's like definitely trying to like, uh.

685
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: That's basically what I knew about Phil Spectra going into

686
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: this is that he was like super controlling in his

687
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: professional and personal relationships. Yeah, that's kind of all I know.

688
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 4: And that is that is exactly it.

689
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 2: And we'll we'll we'll get more into like this professional

690
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 2: side of this too, but it is it is alarming early,

691
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 2: you know, and like Sophie, we brought this up earlier.

692
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 2: It is like it's like letting people get away with stuff,

693
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 2: and how long can they get away with it? You know?

694
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 2: And yeah, and it seems like, I mean, it's the fifties,

695
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: so let's be fair, like this is still the time

696
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 2: where or like early sixties. This is definitely the time

697
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,959
Speaker 2: where like like jokes on TV were like your wife

698
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 2: was talking to watch give her the old one four

699
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 2: of the eye, you know, like right, you know, like

700
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 2: the honeymooners are like actively like like to the moon.

701
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, bang zoom straight. It's it's like an aspect of

702
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: like yeah, because it's just like so common and universal

703
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:51,439
Speaker 1: at the time.

704
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 3: Right, I hear somebody else do an old timey voice

705
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 3: besides Robert, because.

706
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 4: Robert is so good straight moon as that's good.

707
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: I love Archie Bunkers.

708
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 4: Shit, it's great you.

709
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: It is two different It's interesting the two different kinds

710
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 1: of reactions to Oh, I keep like doing things I'm

711
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: not supposed to be doing and I haven't gotten in

712
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: trouble yet because like, the two reactions are the one

713
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 1: the one I have had about things that I won't

714
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: talk about on air, where at a certain point, more

715
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: than whatever the statute of limitations as it go, I

716
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: was like, I'm gonna stop doing this. Done this too

717
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: many times. I'm not gonna keep taking this risk anymore.

718
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 1: Like I've gotten lucky, but I feel like I'm gonna

719
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: stop rolling the dice on this.

720
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 2: I did. I feel the exact same way every time

721
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 2: my registration on my car goes more than eight months

722
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 2: out of date, when I'm like, all right, eight months,

723
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 2: that's a long time.

724
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: To be There's three years I didn't register in my car, right, yeah,

725
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: stuff like that where it's like that probably now I'm

726
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 1: gonna were shoplifting, where it's like I've had enough money

727
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: now I'm not gonna keep taking the risk. And then

728
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: other people who are like, no one's called me on

729
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: my shit, guess I'm gonna get even crazier. And then

730
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: they become the president.

731
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 2: No reason to stop now, all right, So spoiler alert

732
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: on Phil. He doesn't get any better. This is right,

733
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 2: this is his pattern. He keeps going, but they do

734
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 2: break up. Him and Land break up, and he starts

735
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 2: expressing desire to relocate back to.

736
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 4: New York City.

737
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 2: New York offered something that he really wanted, which was

738
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 2: proximity to a legitimacy. In New York at the time,

739
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 2: there is a building called the Brill Building, and we're

740
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 2: gonna tell you, well, I'll just read because it's better

741
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,760
Speaker 2: to read than in summarize. I think Spector quickly embedded

742
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 2: himself in the Brill Building ecosystem, the highly competitive songwriting

743
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 2: and production factory that produced some of the most influential

744
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 2: pop music of the era. The environment was famously ruthless.

745
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: Young writers turned out songs daily competing for placement with

746
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 2: artists and labels. Success required speed, instinct, and relentless self promotion.

747
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 2: Spector thrived creatively, but developed a reputation almost immediately for opportunism.

748
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 2: So I just read this thing where it's like, hey,

749
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 2: everybody's cutthroat up in this shit, and then it's like,

750
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 2: Specter immediately gets a reputation for being opportunistic in a

751
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 2: cutthroat building. To be opportunistic, to be like that in

752
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 2: a cutthroat.

753
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: You definitely, you know, in the music industry, to be

754
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: a cutthroat for people to be like, hey, guy is

755
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: fucking ruthless? Is something? Yeah.

756
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 2: Multiple collaborators from this period later accused him of aggressively

757
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 2: positioning himself for credit and financial participation in projects that

758
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 2: were often collaborative efforts. There were recurring stories of Specter

759
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 2: inserting himself into songwriting or production roles and minimizing the

760
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 2: contributions of others once success became likely. In some cases,

761
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 2: he was accused of leaving collaborators off credits entirely, a

762
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 2: move that not only deprived them of recognition but also

763
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 2: cut them out of long term royalty income.

764
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 4: So he's he's already just ruthless.

765
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: So there's something that I want to bring up here,

766
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: which is about the way that writing works, or writing

767
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 2: a song works, right, which is like the deal is

768
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 2: if there is no prior agreement, all right, if two

769
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 2: people just walk into a room and write a song together.

770
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: Right, it is, And they didn't fIF not as right

771
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 1: and not as part of a pre existing business arrangement or.

772
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah they did, not no one specified like hey,

773
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 2: spontaneous art. Yes, if nothing is specified, it is a

774
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty split, doesn't matter if one person wrote

775
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 2: one word and the other wrote the entire song and all.

776
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 2: He was like, if you come into that create, if

777
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,879
Speaker 2: it's three people, it's thirty three to third. If it's

778
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 2: for it's twenty five percent. Unless you have already agreed

779
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 2: to something. That's what the legal split is for this

780
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 2: whole situation. So for him to come into like sessions

781
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 2: and be like jumping right on, it's like it's like

782
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 2: I've seen this before, Like somebody walks in the room

783
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 2: and starts suggesting things, and you're just like, he just

784
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: took a portion of my my cut of this song,

785
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 2: and your suggestions were things I was gonna do anyways,

786
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 2: that's kind of annoying, you know. It's like, it's really

787
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 2: easy to finagle in this time period, especially so a

788
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 2: fellow writer named Beverly Ross, who helped Phil, recalled his

789
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 2: promises to bring her with him if he were to

790
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 2: ever get into the right rooms, but he renegged immediately

791
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 2: upon being granted opportunities. She saw Phil as a user,

792
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 2: and she was eventually offered a staff job, but she

793
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,959
Speaker 2: declined it because she would have to see Phil every day.

794
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 2: So this woman literally turns down a successful, money paying

795
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 2: job writing at the Brill Building because she was like, oh,

796
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 2: I'd have to see Phil every day and he is cold.

797
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 2: I don't want to be around him. He's the worst, right, Yeah,

798
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 2: he's sketchy.

799
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 3: I respected a man could be that annoying that You're like,

800
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 3: absolutely not.

801
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 1: I want this is not worth the job.

802
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 3: The job is not worth my peace of mind. Please

803
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 3: stay away from me.

804
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 1: You should all have self respect.

805
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah really, but you know twenty six man, it's

806
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 2: hard man's.

807
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 4: Right now, all right? Uh so, uh, this is from

808
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 4: her quote.

809
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 2: I was so gun shy of ever becoming vulnerable to

810
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 2: someone who'd betrayed me like that, because Phil practically killed

811
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 2: me emotionally. I figured I wasn't smart enough to handle

812
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 2: the part of his personality that I understand. It was

813
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 2: like Phil was born without a conscience and I was

814
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 2: his victim. He could be so ruthless. Wow, so seemingly

815
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 2: we have heard only from women that this is an issue, right,

816
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: It's like this does not seem to be very much

817
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:36,720
Speaker 2: a male issue.

818
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 4: This is asistent.

819
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, women around him have to feel the breath. And

820
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 2: you know, I mean again not to like give anybody

821
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 2: an out or any empathy for somebody who's a shitty

822
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 2: person because like shitty acts or shitty acts and it

823
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 2: doesn't matter.

824
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 4: But you can see like this is kind.

825
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 2: Of like an emotional and you know, reaction to his

826
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 2: mother and his sister pushing him, controlling him.

827
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: So too, Yeah, isn't absolution.

828
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I'm going to talk about this later.

829
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 2: But so Phil, whenever he went to work at the

830
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 2: Brill Building after he got his money from the Teddy Bears, right,

831
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 2: he made a lot of money, he had to actually take.

832
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 4: His mother to court.

833
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 2: I know, Uh, he had to take his mother to

834
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 2: court to get his money because even as like a teenager,

835
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 2: his mom was like, no, he can't you can't, you

836
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 2: can't be trusted, you'll leave us, you won't let us

837
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 2: have any money, you won't take care of us. And

838
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 2: so he's basically even like going into adulthood, he's having

839
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 2: to fight his mom in court over his own money

840
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 2: because of the way that you know, because the way

841
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,760
Speaker 2: that she is, the controlling nature of her and everything.

842
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 2: So you know, it's like he's he's doing that while

843
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 2: also controlling other people and and and you know, doing

844
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 2: shitty things to other women.

845
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean that. Yeah, so it's in part

846
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,760
Speaker 1: just kind of his revenge based on his his shitty mom.

847
00:41:58,400 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

848
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's just taking it out on other people.

849
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: Well also just he grew up learning that, like that's

850
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: what you do to people, Like you can either be

851
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: controlled or controlling. Yes, I'll controlling. Yeah sure.

852
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 2: So so yeah, so being cutthroat, like we said, being

853
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 2: cutthroat isn't weird in the music industry, Like, you know,

854
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 2: there's a lot of people that are famous for their

855
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 2: like ruthless activities inside the music industry, especially in the

856
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 2: old days or whatever. But to be in a cutthroat

857
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 2: environment and be the cuttiest, throatiest person of that environment

858
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 2: is like okay, like everybody is like, no, Phil is

859
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: the worst of all of them, Like, you know, everybody,

860
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 2: everybody in the building hates him, nobody trusts him. He

861
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 2: gets a reputation from just being like the dude that

862
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 2: would show up all the time and just like jump

863
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: in on things and take control and on all this stuff.

864
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,280
Speaker 4: People don't like him.

865
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 2: So one of the most important relationship spectro form during

866
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 2: this New York period was with legendary songwriting production Durg

867
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 2: Jerry Lieber and Mike Stoller. Liber and Stoller were already

868
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 2: giants of the early rock and rhythm and blues era,

869
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,720
Speaker 2: and we're responsible for shaping hits artists like Elvis Presley,

870
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 2: the Coasters, like numerous other artists. They were architects of

871
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,280
Speaker 2: the modern producer model, combining songwriting and arrangement and studio

872
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 2: direction into a single creative authority. At this point, like

873
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 2: music is changing really fast at this point, you know,

874
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,240
Speaker 2: because the technology is changing, the way that people operate

875
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 2: is changing. It went from being like, oh, this is

876
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 2: a band that plays this music to now like we

877
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 2: got a creative team. All these people are writing this

878
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 2: stuff and like also to this is really important.

879
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 4: This is the first.

880
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 2: Time in musical history that music goes from being marketed

881
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 2: to adults to being marketed to teenagers. Oh right, yeah,

882
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 2: because prior to this, there has never been.

883
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,280
Speaker 4: Teenagers with money, you know, like teenagers.

884
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yes, as a teenager, you're like you were just

885
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: working in the minds and handing money to your parents

886
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: so that they buy starvation with it. Yeah, you have

887
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 1: forward to starve to death.

888
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 2: So this is the first time in all of recorded

889
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 2: history basically that teenagers become a market right, And this

890
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,359
Speaker 2: is really important to this whole overview of like where

891
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 2: where the money comes from, and how they market to

892
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 2: things and how they even write a song. Like, so

893
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 2: it went from being like, okay, a band does all

894
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,240
Speaker 2: this to like a group of guys would get together

895
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 2: in a room and start being like, okay, cool, Like

896
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 2: I wrote this song, I was gonna give it to

897
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 2: this person, but you know, we should give it to

898
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: this person. And that's why in this time you'll see

899
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 2: a lot of like, you know, like Aretha Franklin songs

900
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 2: that are also Otis Redding songs later or whatever. You know,

901
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 2: like people would just write a song and give it

902
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 2: to an artist, and then anybody who liked that song

903
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 2: would also cover it because the money went back to

904
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 2: the publishing.

905
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 4: Right, the performance is a minimum amount of the money.

906
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 4: The publishing is the money.

907
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 2: So these guys would keep giving these songs to other people,

908
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:56,720
Speaker 2: other artists and be like, you should do this song.

909
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 4: And it just became normalized to do that.

910
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 2: So the the strength of the music industry went from

911
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 2: being bands to being producers. Right, and this is where

912
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 2: Phil kind of slams hard into the industry. All right,

913
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 2: so he falls in like he falls in with these

914
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 2: guys liber and Stoller, who are like the guys of

915
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 2: the time. They are the Max Martin's or whatever famous producer,

916
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 2: the Kenny Beats, or the Doctor Dre's or the whatever

917
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 2: you love. They are that of this time, and Specter

918
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 2: admired them intensely. He started their recording techniques, their business strategies,

919
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 2: and their ability to shape artist identities from behind the glass.

920
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 2: In many ways, liber and Stoller provided in Specter with

921
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 2: a blueprint for the career he wanted to build. Despite

922
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 2: recognizing his talent. However, liber and Stoller never fully trusted him.

923
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 2: Accounts from associates and later biographies described them as simultaneously

924
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 2: impressed by spector's musical talents and wary of his personality.

925
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 2: He was ambitious, obsessive, and socially abrasive. He pushed himself

926
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 2: into rooms he had not been invited into. He demanded

927
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 2: opportunities he had not yet earned. He hovered around sessions,

928
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 2: absorbing information and inserting suggestions, persistently trying to attach himself

929
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 2: to projects. But they kept they kept giving him chances. Right.

930
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,280
Speaker 2: Part of this was practical, practical because he was actually

931
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 2: he was good.

932
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 4: He was very good musically talented.

933
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 2: Yes, and so it's like, man, you ever worked with

934
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:28,760
Speaker 2: somebody who's good at their job but a horrible person,

935
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 2: Like we've all been there, right.

936
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 5: Right, yeah, and you're like, ah, specters come to the studios,

937
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,879
Speaker 5: Yeah we're gonna write, but yeah, we're gonna write a.

938
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 4: Banger, but.

939
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

940
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

941
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 2: Their willingness to tolerate him also reflected that, you know, uh,

942
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 2: he represents the next step, like what I was just

943
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 2: talking about, He's the next step in the evolutiontionary ladder

944
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 2: of working in the music industry.

945
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 4: You know, it's like.

946
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 2: He's he is the producer model that will become the

947
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 2: tour de force in the industry.

948
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: That's uh, yeah, that's that's that's a good note. I

949
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: do want to say, you know what I'm willing to

950
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 1: settle for will.

951
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 2: Uh billions of dollars. I only want to becoming for

952
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 2: the ragor. And I'm sure I know, I actually know

953
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 2: that you do get you get billions of dollars from

954
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 2: these ads, right.

955
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: I do. I do billions of every every single ad.

956
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 2: And there's no healthcare given to any of your employees.

957
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 2: You are just like you are Jeff Bezos. Man.

958
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: I actually bought Bezos' yacht just to sink, so that

959
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 1: my yacht will avoid sinking the same way.

960
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,439
Speaker 2: You know, I've heard about that you're doing. I went, yeah,

961
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,359
Speaker 2: don't sleep on that couch as well.

962
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 3: I'm saying, anyways.

963
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,359
Speaker 1: Let's all think about what diseases you get from Jeff

964
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:09,399
Speaker 1: Bezos's yacht couch and here some mad Yeah we're back.

965
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: The answer was gonna rhea.

966
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 4: All right, all right.

967
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 2: So this is where Phil starts really developing his understanding

968
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 2: of how records are made. How I mean, this is

969
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 2: a learning environment. This is the professional like environment of

970
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,720
Speaker 2: writers in New York. This is his like high school

971
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 2: or college or whatever.

972
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 4: This is his moment.

973
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 2: He absorbs all that, and he starts really understanding like

974
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 2: the recording studio and the process of recording is it

975
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 2: is like the music itself, the music comes from the

976
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 2: environment that this stuff is made in as much as

977
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 2: anything else. And this is kind of like a new

978
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 2: concept because you know, music is we're in the sixties

979
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 2: right now, right we're in the sixties. We only really

980
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 2: started having like reasonable sounding recording recorded music like ten

981
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 2: years prior to this, before anything like that, before ten years,

982
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 2: like we only got everybody say thank you to Adolf

983
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 2: Hitler right now, thank you, ad Off without no.

984
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: One of his many contribution.

985
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 2: To the world was we got a post World War two?

986
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 2: Do you know this about Hitler? This is actually really funny.

987
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: Really because it was Huston. He famously believed and wrote

988
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: about this in my comp that the best way to

989
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 1: convince people of anything was the human voice, that the

990
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: pure human voice was the best tool for influencing people.

991
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 2: And at the time confused at the time, exactly literally

992
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 2: he was ahead of the curve oncaster Alf Hitler.

993
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 4: The world's first podcaster. Amazing, that's right.

994
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 2: You know, it's like the British were all baffled at

995
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 2: the time too, because like prior to this, Like basically

996
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 2: they had magnetic wire recording and they had wax cylinders

997
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 2: that they could record to right, and it was basically

998
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 2: one shot, one kill if you liked. If you messed up,

999
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 2: it was over right. But magnetic recording actually, and.

1000
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 4: It was cleaner.

1001
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 2: It sounded way better, like in comparison to like the

1002
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 2: old vinyls that I had, the like, it was way cleaner,

1003
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 2: it sounded more pure. And the Brits were like, how

1004
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 2: is this guy broadcasting from like eight different cities in

1005
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 2: absolute clarity? Like they're so confused at the time, they

1006
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 2: have no idea what's going on all because Hitler's over

1007
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 2: there with the only magnetic recorder.

1008
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 4: That's in the entire world.

1009
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 2: Because just turns out, basf there in Germany, who's just

1010
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 2: still a company. Congratulations, you guys made it through the

1011
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 2: entire Nazi regime and all the backlash, I you know,

1012
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 2: hats off. So without Hitler and his magnetic recording, we

1013
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 2: would not have.

1014
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 4: The music industry.

1015
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 2: They brought the GIS. The GIS brought it back in

1016
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 2: the forties, uh to America. We started tinkering with it.

1017
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 2: By late fifties. We have Les Paul and Bill Putnam

1018
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,760
Speaker 2: basically like the gods of recording folks.

1019
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: If it hadn't been for Hitler, none of us would

1020
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 1: have been able to hear the Mighty Mighty boss Tones

1021
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 1: album about George Floyd And what kind of America would

1022
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: that be?

1023
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 2: I so desperately want to take the time five second story.

1024
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 2: I once went to a concert and you know, the

1025
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 2: guy that dances on stage and that's his only job.

1026
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 4: Somebody threw a shoe and it hit him right.

1027
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 2: In the fucking face and it took him completely out,

1028
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 2: and they stopped the concert and they're like, we're not

1029
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 2: gonna play.

1030
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 4: And somebody goes, who cares?

1031
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:28,280
Speaker 3: Wow?

1032
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 2: Wow, that's my favorite Mighty Mighty boss Let's story. All right,

1033
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 2: So sorry I was on a little tangent there. Hitler

1034
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 2: gave us recording, but it's very new. Recording is very new, right,

1035
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 2: So the way that they record is changing by the day, right,

1036
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 2: It's like people are discovering new things. We go from

1037
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 2: a single track to record to so now we have

1038
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 2: two tracks and you can bounce back and forth, and

1039
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:56,439
Speaker 2: now we have four tracks.

1040
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 4: And then next thing you know, they've got a.

1041
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 2: Whole console that they've made that you know, and these

1042
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 2: guys are literally building them themselves, like Bill Putnham was

1043
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 2: like building handbuilding his own consoles and everything. And so

1044
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 2: they now have some technology. It opens up the world

1045
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 2: of recording. Prior to this, if you were a band,

1046
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,839
Speaker 2: that was the only way to record music, right, you

1047
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 2: had to stand all around this horn and everybody like

1048
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 2: make their noise, and whoever was like the loudest in

1049
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 2: the horn is the loudest. So he put the vocalist

1050
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 2: the closest, and you put the drummer away the hell back,

1051
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 2: and like, you know, you have to.

1052
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 4: It's it's complicated.

1053
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 2: It's you're so concerned with just getting a recording that

1054
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 2: you don't have really time to think about the.

1055
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 4: Artistic direction of the recording.

1056
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 2: And so this moment in history, the late fifties, early

1057
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 2: nineteen sixties, this.

1058
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 4: Is the moment that changes all of recorded music.

1059
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 2: And why obviously I'm such a big fan of this

1060
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 2: as someone who considers himself to be a stereo phil specter,

1061
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 2: you know, I absorb a lot of his music and

1062
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 2: I think that this is like how I try and

1063
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 2: portray myself and a lot of this stuff without all

1064
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 2: the you know, well, actually the same number of ex wives.

1065
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 2: That's great, we have the same number of X wives

1066
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:10,240
Speaker 2: at three.

1067
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 4: We're crussing it.

1068
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:16,800
Speaker 2: But without the other crimes, without the other crimes.

1069
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, all right.

1070
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:23,800
Speaker 2: So, rather than treating musicians as equal collaborator, Specter increasingly

1071
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:27,760
Speaker 2: saw them as interchangeable components and a larger sonic structure.

1072
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 2: If one player failed to achieve the desired result, another

1073
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 2: could replace them. If a vocalist lacked the emotional texture

1074
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 2: he wanted, he could manipulate arrangement, echo, orchestration, reverb, all

1075
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 2: these things to compensate and evolve.

1076
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 1: Sorry, go ahead, No, this is like and it seems

1077
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: like this is in a lot of ways the birth

1078
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: of the end of music, transitioning away popular music, transitioning

1079
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 1: away from these are people who like make something like

1080
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 1: art that they want to share with people too. This

1081
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,439
Speaker 1: is a product, and we can we can cut out

1082
00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 1: pieces and slide in pieces wherever we need to percent.

1083
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 2: This is absolutely the birth of that. This is the

1084
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 2: birth of like. I am pitching this song to Ariana

1085
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 2: Grande because she might sing it great, but I don't

1086
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:12,280
Speaker 2: care if Beyonce takes.

1087
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: Let's get bidding on this music. Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1088
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:16,399
Speaker 4: It's no longer as much.

1089
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 2: I mean, I still think people put as much love

1090
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 2: and passion into their Sure, yeah music is always but

1091
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 2: it's we're.

1092
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 1: Saying it's nothing but bad or whatever. But it's a

1093
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 1: big change.

1094
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 4: Yes, it is a very big change. Yeah.

1095
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 2: So Specter closely studied records that we're experimenting with dense

1096
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 2: layering and orchestral pop arrangements, particularly productions that emphasized emotional

1097
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 2: saturation through instrumental doubling and echo chamber effects. Songs like

1098
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 2: under the Boardwalk you know that song.

1099
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 4: If you listen to somebody.

1100
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:49,879
Speaker 2: sEH, if you listen to that, you will absolutely hear

1101
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 2: what are the early you know, phrases that that Specter

1102
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,839
Speaker 2: would draw from. It sounds basically like a Phil Spector song.

1103
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,919
Speaker 2: It's got you know, like the orchestration is buried in there.

1104
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, the vocal is very upfront and everything,

1105
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 2: but everything else is kind of a mesh behind it,

1106
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 2: and it's not nearly there's a lot of reverb and everything.

1107
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 2: It's not nearly as clean and clear as some of

1108
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 2: like because that was the goal, right, It was like

1109
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 2: for so long they're like, we just want to make

1110
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 2: something that sounds good, and then all of a sudden

1111
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, actually, we can make anything. So let's

1112
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 2: just make it sound crazy, let's make it sound reverby,

1113
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,800
Speaker 2: let's do like experimentation with this stuff. So he starts

1114
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 2: to get into that. What distinguished Specter was not necessarily

1115
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,720
Speaker 2: that he invented these techniques, but that he became obsessed

1116
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 2: with expanding them to their absolute extreme. Where earlier producers

1117
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 2: used layering to enhance song, Spector began envisioning arrangements where

1118
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 2: individual instruments disappeared into a unified emotional mass. Precision gave

1119
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 2: way to density, Clarity gave way to atmosphere. The recording

1120
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 2: was not meant to be dissected. It was meant to

1121
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:56,800
Speaker 2: overwhelm you, right. And this is like the big principle

1122
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,840
Speaker 2: of the wall of sound. Anybody who knows about Phil Spector, like, seriously,

1123
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 2: no about the wall of sound. The wall of sound

1124
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 2: was Phil Spector's creation in sorts. It's it's a it's

1125
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:13,879
Speaker 2: a way of recording that makes the music like very Wagnerian, right,

1126
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 2: It's it's like a Wagner opera. It's a bunch of

1127
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 2: noise coming at you, right, And it is meant to

1128
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 2: overwhelm you.

1129
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 4: There's often layers of percussion.

1130
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 2: It was all like, uh, layers of instrumentation to be

1131
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 2: drummer on drummer and drummer, three piano.

1132
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 4: Players, like six guitars.

1133
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 2: And this is such a big change because, like I said,

1134
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:35,879
Speaker 2: prior to this, it was like, well, you just put

1135
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 2: a band in a room and then you record the band, right,

1136
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 2: and so now it's all of a sudden, like I

1137
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 2: don't have to reproduce this on stage. It doesn't have

1138
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 2: to sound like this. I'm gonna make this. I'm gonna

1139
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 2: put ten pianos on here. I'm gonna go crazy with you,

1140
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 2: you know, like yeah, like I can do anything, Okay,

1141
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 2: I want ten pianos, then bring in ten pianos. It's

1142
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,799
Speaker 2: also like kind of that like era of like that

1143
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,120
Speaker 2: starts there where was like the money is actually in

1144
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 2: music where they're like I need ten pianos tonight, and

1145
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 2: like someone goes out and picks up ten pianos.

1146
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 4: You know, it's really amazing.

1147
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So like this is also yeah, kind

1148
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:13,360
Speaker 1: of the birth of the the insane expenditures for like

1149
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:15,760
Speaker 1: crazy artistical wins aspect.

1150
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 4: It later transforms into a cocaine budget, but well a

1151
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 4: little early.

1152
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 2: It's early for the cocaine budget, but it will eventually

1153
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 2: become a cocaine budget.

1154
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 4: Excited.

1155
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 2: So, despite being signed to Liber and Stoller, those two

1156
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 2: mentors that he had, he eventually becomes enamored with the

1157
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 2: co founder of Atlantic Records. I'm at Airdigun and when

1158
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 2: given the opportunity to jump ship, he wasted no time. Right,

1159
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 2: liber and Stoller are pissed. They're like, bro, what are

1160
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 2: you doing? Like, we gave you this opportune.

1161
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 3: Tolerated your bitch ass, and you're just gonna dip.

1162
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 4: Yes, we tolerated you.

1163
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: We let you come in put up with your ass.

1164
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 2: And he's like, actually, I was underage when I signed

1165
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 2: your contract, so it doesn't matter.

1166
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 4: You guys can't do shit. And he just walks out

1167
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 4: right and and they're like, eh, fair, that was true.

1168
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 2: We get, in fact, sign an underage person to a

1169
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 2: contract without having the proper legal authority, So whoopswee fucked up.

1170
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 2: So so he becomes friends with Ahmed Erdegan Erdigon recognizes

1171
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 2: his talent and he starts learning from him. Uh, it's

1172
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 2: he's just an old school record guy, right, And now

1173
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 2: so Phil's now learning the business.

1174
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 4: Right, this is he was in the music thing, and

1175
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 4: now he's like, I'm going.

1176
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 2: To learn the business. Phil would find some reasonable successes

1177
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 2: during this time, remaining under the tutelage of his friend Lester,

1178
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 2: still the old World War Two veteran, but he would

1179
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 2: eventually desire more freedom to work as he pleased, and

1180
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 2: so he and Lester formed phil Less Records, a portmanteau

1181
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 2: of their two names. I think that's the word portmanteau, right, yep,

1182
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 2: thanks nailed it.

1183
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 4: Look at me with that look at I just guessed

1184
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 4: on that one. Thanks. Uh. He was slowly becoming the

1185
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 4: king of girl groups.

1186
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 2: It was actually around this time that he was dubbed

1187
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 2: the Tycoon of teen, which sounds very questionable.

1188
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 3: I don't like I don't like that. Nope, nope, visceral reaction.

1189
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1190
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 2: So, by the age of twenty one he had become

1191
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 2: an undeniable force in the industry. He had produced a

1192
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 2: string of hits, like I think he had like twenty

1193
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 2: one top ten singles in Jesus three years or something. Yeah,

1194
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 2: it was like an insane amount. His first major success

1195
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,919
Speaker 2: was Spanish Harlem, after his own Spanish Harlem by Benny King,

1196
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 2: and then there's no one other like My Baby by

1197
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:35,840
Speaker 2: the Crystals. He's a rebel by the Crystals. Bobby Socks

1198
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 2: and the Blue Jeans had a song as Zippity DooDah.

1199
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 2: Lots of crazy hits, right, yeah, crazy crazy hits.

1200
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:42,520
Speaker 4: Right.

1201
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 2: Here's a little little piece though the Crystals are sitting there.

1202
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 2: They recorded There's no one other like My Baby. He

1203
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 2: did well in the charts, and then you know, a

1204
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 2: few months later, they're sitting there listening to the radio

1205
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 2: one afternoon and they hear.

1206
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 4: A song come on.

1207
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, this is cool, it's an interesting So

1208
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 2: they get done and the radio announces all and that

1209
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 2: was He's a Rebel by the Crystals.

1210
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 4: And they're like, wait what.

1211
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 2: Phil had begun recording songs and then releasing them as

1212
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 2: band songs without any of them having been on the song.

1213
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 2: He didn't, He didn't care. He was just like, they're

1214
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 2: all replaceable to me. You're all just you're all just singers.

1215
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 2: I don't care about you at all, especially you're all

1216
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 2: female singers. You are all female singers. I will just

1217
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 2: replace it. He never does this to a man, not

1218
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 2: in his entire career. But to women he does this.

1219
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: Oh, just like two less obvious man Jesus.

1220
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 3: I would I would have put I don't care what day.

1221
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 3: I would have punched him in this face. I would

1222
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 3: I would have looked him.

1223
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 2: At eye level and bring that up.

1224
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 4: Yes, I'm glad to bring that up. Good because.

1225
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 2: Another tick in the fill is seriously like uncomfortable without

1226
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 2: his gun comes from the lead singer of the Crystals

1227
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 2: And I forget her name.

1228
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 4: I'm sorry. I hack in a fraud just like you.

1229
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 4: So I forgot her name.

1230
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 2: But she tells a story in this documentary to watch

1231
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 2: where she's like, yeah, I saw that, and I was like, okay.

1232
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 2: So she goes and she talks to this mobster that

1233
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 2: she knows, and this mobster goes out and just beats

1234
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 2: the dog piss out of film, and it's like, hey, like,

1235
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 2: if you ever do comrade mobs? Yeah, yeah, hey man.

1236
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 2: Sometimes organized crime has his purpose, let's be fair, you know, so.

1237
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 1: Often more reliable than the government.

1238
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 3: Wait, what was the name of the documentary you were

1239
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 3: just talking about.

1240
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 2: This is from the Agony in the Ecstasy of Phil Specter. Okay, cool.

1241
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 2: So he has a bunch of successes. Zippity dudah, be

1242
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 2: my Baby with the nets. You've lost that love and

1243
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 2: feeling with the righteous brothers. He is on top of

1244
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 2: the world.

1245
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jesus, be my Baby. He has that one in

1246
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 1: an uber last night.

1247
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, be my Baby. He's on the my I

1248
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,439
Speaker 3: have a vinyl from the Dirty Dancing soundtrack and it's

1249
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 3: on there.

1250
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:24,000
Speaker 2: It's so good, very funny story. Years later, Phil Spector

1251
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 2: he was asked by Martin Scorsese to use be My

1252
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 2: Baby for the opening of Cocaine Cowboy. I think it

1253
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 2: was the one.

1254
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 4: Anyway, it's the opening of it. It's be my Baby.

1255
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:35,480
Speaker 2: They do a whole thing, and he's asked and he's

1256
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 2: like no, and then they do it anyway and he

1257
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 2: and he sees it.

1258
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 4: It comes out. John Lennon shows it to him, and

1259
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 4: he sees it, and he comes out and he's like,

1260
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 4: what the hell outdn't toe him? They could do that,

1261
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 4: you know.

1262
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 2: And so he gets all mad and then he sues him,

1263
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 2: of course, which you know is fair or whatever.

1264
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:52,200
Speaker 4: That's fair. That's fair, song of affirmation, that's fair. You

1265
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 4: suit him.

1266
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 2: But then he goes on for the rest of his

1267
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 2: life and tells everybody I made Scorsese with that mad.

1268
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, all right, that was a bit of a.

1269
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 2: Dick for the rest of his life. Think that's why,

1270
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 2: and that at the pinnacle of Phil's success is where

1271
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 2: we will leave this episode. Robert, how do you how

1272
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:17,200
Speaker 2: do you feel about Phil so far?

1273
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 4: I mean, he's a little bit of a dick, but

1274
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:20,440
Speaker 4: you know, he's hit some bangers.

1275
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 1: He hit some bangers so far, he just sounds like

1276
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 1: an asshole, is really good at his job.

1277
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 3: I didn't know all that shit about his mom and a.

1278
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 1: Huge misogynist who screws over female.

1279
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, I would I would have punched.

1280
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 2: I say again, it's like if this was if this

1281
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 2: was the end, right, you'd be like, I mean not

1282
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 2: really bastard worthy, Like he's sucks. But there's no shortage

1283
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 2: of those people in the music industry, right, It's like

1284
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 2: there really is. Yeah, there's no shortage of horrible people

1285
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:55,360
Speaker 2: in the music industry. Like I meet them all the

1286
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 2: time and then I'm like, cool, this is why I

1287
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 2: stopped working with labels.

1288
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 4: I'm going back to my studio. Yeah, but it is.

1289
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 2: There's a lot of them, right, and you know it's

1290
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 2: you know, it's tough too, is for every awful person

1291
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 2: I meet in the music industry, I meet a legend

1292
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 2: that I'm like, you're the nicest person I've ever met,

1293
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 2: and like, how are you this good and this cool

1294
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 2: and this person not that good and way shitty?

1295
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 4: Like I don't understand it.

1296
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:25,040
Speaker 2: I'll never get it. It's there's a weird proportion in

1297
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 2: that stuff. Wow, Robert, you could be founded. I right, okay,

1298
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 2: which I can't think yeah, uh you. I like to

1299
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 2: think of it more as like like you telling your

1300
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 2: parents back in like the the early two thousands why

1301
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 2: you can't move back home and why you're having success

1302
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:44,440
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, and.

1303
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 4: You're like, I write, Okay, you.

1304
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 2: Know, it's just.

1305
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 1: Exhaustive explaining what I do for a living.

1306
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 3: To be okay, yeah, just go away.

1307
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 2: I can be found at at Greasy Will Grease at

1308
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 2: Greasy Will Music.

1309
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 4: You can just google me. I'm like on the internet.

1310
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 6: I have it.

1311
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 2: I have a recording course. If you want to learn

1312
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 2: about how to record from a Grammy Award winning engineer,

1313
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 2: I have one. It can be found at greasy does

1314
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:16,680
Speaker 2: it dot com or you can just google me, or

1315
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 2: you can go to my I'm on the internet, man,

1316
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:22,240
Speaker 2: I'm on the Internet, Like, it can't be that hard there.

1317
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:24,440
Speaker 1: It's easy to find people.

1318
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 2: I feel like you guys will be fine tracking it's

1319
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 2: a Z. It's not with an S. I get a

1320
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 2: lot of greasy wheels and that kind of does make

1321
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 2: me a different guy, because a guy I want to

1322
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 2: meet him.

1323
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 3: I mean, if you told this on the podcast, who

1324
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:40,800
Speaker 3: gave you the name greasy Will.

1325
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 4: Pharrell exactly? It's very cool, very cool.

1326
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:49,000
Speaker 2: It was very cool.

1327
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:50,240
Speaker 4: It's super cool.

1328
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, this is the end of the episode. Friends,

1329
01:05:54,720 --> 01:06:01,200
Speaker 3: We'll be back, We'll be back. Behind the Bastards is

1330
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 3: a production of cool Zone Media. For more from cool

1331
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 3: Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check

1332
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 3: us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1333
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 3: you get your podcasts. Full video episodes a Behind the

1334
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:17,040
Speaker 3: Bastards are now streaming on Netflix, dropping every Tuesday and Thursday.

1335
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:20,000
Speaker 3: Kit remind me of Netflix, you don't miss an episode.

1336
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 3: For clips in our older episode catalog, continue to subscribe

1337
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:26,560
Speaker 3: to our YouTube channel YouTube dot com slash at Behind

1338
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 3: the Bastards. We love about forty percent of you, statistically speaking,