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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Unbreakable Mental Health Podcast with Jay Glazer.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jay Glazer, and if you're like many people, you

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Speaker 1: may be surprised to learn about one in five adults

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Speaker 1: in this country experienced mental illness last year, yet far

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Speaker 1: too many failed to receive the support they need. Carolyn,

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Speaker 1: behavioral Health is doing something about it. They understand that

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Speaker 1: behavioral health is a key part of whole health, delivering

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Speaker 1: compassionate care that treats physical, mental, emotional, and social needs

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Speaker 1: in tandem. Carolyn behavioral health raising the quality of life

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Speaker 1: through empathy and action. And look, one of the things

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Speaker 1: I love about our partnership here with Carolyn is we

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Speaker 1: have some of their experts that get to come on,

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Speaker 1: and I have a lot of guests. We call them on.

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Speaker 1: We talk about our mental health issues and a lot

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Speaker 1: of celebrities and a lot of you know, people that

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Speaker 1: you may know from different areas of TV or sports.

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Speaker 1: But we're not the experts. So I need to have

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Speaker 1: those experts on to help us through. And one of

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Speaker 1: those experts for Carolyn right now is Wendy Farmer, a

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Speaker 1: regional VP for the Crisis Center for Excellence at Carolyn. Wendy,

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Speaker 1: how you doing dank?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: How are you? I'm doing great. That's a heck of

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Speaker 1: a title right there. Hey we have crisis. I got ADHD.

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Speaker 1: That's a long title. Yeah, it's kind of long. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of But here's the thing. I don't think I've

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Speaker 1: ever had anybody on the show. It talks about crisis,

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Speaker 1: and I want people to understand how important this is

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Speaker 1: because one thing about you know, we go see a therapist,

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Speaker 1: and I always think we need therapy because there are coaches,

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Speaker 1: but it's a totally different area of crisis. And I

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Speaker 1: get a lot of times people come to me when

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Speaker 1: they have crisis, when the sky is falling, and I

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Speaker 1: often don't know what to do, and most of them

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Speaker 1: I don't know what duke except try to tell them

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Speaker 1: to get help. But even that there's a specific help

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Speaker 1: that you were your expertise is in. Tell me how

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Speaker 1: you got into this field of specifically dealing with crisis.

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Speaker 2: I've been working with people in mental health crisis for

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Speaker 2: twenty five years. It just it's an area of behavior

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Speaker 2: health that I gravitated to, really because I think there's

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Speaker 2: such great opportunity when there is a crisis to really

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Speaker 2: engage someone in care you know, when someone's reaching out

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Speaker 2: on their very worst day, it's an awesome responsibility, but

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Speaker 2: it's also an awesome, you know, opportunity to be able

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Speaker 2: to give them quality care and to get them what

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Speaker 2: they need. And what I've found is that if you

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Speaker 2: could treat people with kindness, with compassion, if you know

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Speaker 2: what to do, if you know how to connect them

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Speaker 2: to care, They're always going to remember that and that's

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Speaker 2: always going to make them feel better about behavioral health care.

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Speaker 2: It gives them the confidence that the system is there

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Speaker 2: to help them.

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Speaker 1: What's the right care? Because there's terre and people can

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Speaker 1: call them and reach out, and sometimes you're like, oh no,

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Speaker 1: what would happen there? What's what would you say is

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Speaker 1: the right care when someone calls it the crisis?

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Speaker 2: It's complex, but I would put it like this. You know,

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Speaker 2: if you have a heart attack in our country today,

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Speaker 2: everybody knows what to do. Right there's a very clear

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Speaker 2: care path. I unfortunately had one in my car when

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Speaker 2: I was forty and I'm here today because everybody did

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Speaker 2: they were supposed to do. I knew what to do,

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Speaker 2: the bystanders knew what to do, and that's knew what

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Speaker 2: to do. Everybody did, and unfortunately in the behavioral health system,

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Speaker 2: we haven't had a clear care pathway. But we're starting

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Speaker 2: to get that now, right, we have nine eight eight

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Speaker 2: in place. We do have a place for people to call.

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Speaker 2: That's the nine to one one for mental health. It's

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Speaker 2: the nine eight eight for behavioral health. So we're starting

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Speaker 2: to get those care pathways delivered in communities so that

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Speaker 2: you have a place to call. Communities are now developing

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Speaker 2: ways that people can come to you, like mobile crisis teams,

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Speaker 2: so that kind of like an ambulance coming to you.

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Speaker 2: Those mobile crisis team to specialize in behavioral health are

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Speaker 2: coming to people now and they're specialized places for people

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Speaker 2: to go now in many communities that are specifically related

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Speaker 2: to behavioral health. So the right care is really, you know,

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Speaker 2: the amount of care at the intensity that person needs

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Speaker 2: at that time.

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Speaker 1: You also, you know, wrote to the folks Carol and

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Speaker 1: recently helped mother's child was actively threatening to harm siblings.

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Speaker 1: So this is you know, there's a difference in what

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to do is leave mental health to mental

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Speaker 1: wealth and really try and give it word so we

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Speaker 1: can have the conversations. But then you have things like this,

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Speaker 1: How are you guys able to navigate something as dramatic

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Speaker 1: as the child threatening or siblings and you got to

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Speaker 1: step in in well, you know.

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Speaker 2: We first listened to, you know, to exactly what the

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Speaker 2: situation was. We we didn't over react in the sense

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Speaker 2: of sending police right to the house, right, that's not

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Speaker 2: always necessary. We were able to keep things calm enough

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Speaker 2: that we could talk through a reasonable plan. We were

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Speaker 2: able to reach out to a facility that was willing to,

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Speaker 2: you know, to take this young person, and we really

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Speaker 2: worked along the way to avoid some of the common

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Speaker 2: kind of pitfalls that you see. Right, So, sometimes people

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Speaker 2: end up in the back of a police car unnecessarily,

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Speaker 2: they end up sitting in the emergency room for days

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Speaker 2: on end. So it was about understanding what the exact

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Speaker 2: need was and having a relationship with a facility that

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Speaker 2: was able to meet the needs so we could get

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Speaker 2: our directly there. We want to make sure that we're

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Speaker 2: streamlining that we're causing as little disruption and trauma to

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Speaker 2: that young person. You know, no one needs to start

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Speaker 2: their behavioral healthcare in the back of a police car,

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Speaker 2: So we do as much as we can to avoid

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Speaker 2: that kind of unnecessary emergency services interaction.

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Speaker 1: Think it's an interesting time we live in because we're

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Speaker 1: talking about mental health way more than we ever had,

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Speaker 1: which is great because that's what we need to do, right,

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Speaker 1: take away that stigma and we understand, Okay, nothing's wrong

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Speaker 1: with me. I'm just going through some certain things and

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Speaker 1: we can get through. But at the same time, the

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Speaker 1: world is a scarier place, right We're all judging ourselves

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Speaker 1: on social media and comparing ourselves to everybody else, and

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Speaker 1: it's I guess it's harder. How do you kind of

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Speaker 1: balance that of where we are in today's society?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have people are experiencing unprecedented levels of distress,

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Speaker 2: you know, I think talking about it like we are today,

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Speaker 2: I mean we're seeing the stigma that it's you know,

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Speaker 2: okay not to be okay, and I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: really talking to people directly about their feelings and their challenges.

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Speaker 2: You know, when I started working as a professional counselor

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Speaker 2: twenty five years ago, people thought that if you ask

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Speaker 2: someone if they were feeling suicidal or if they were

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Speaker 2: having thoughts of suicide, they thought that it would actually

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Speaker 2: cause it. And we know today that it's actually more

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Speaker 2: likely to prevent it because when you ask that question openly,

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Speaker 2: you give that person permission to give you their pain

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Speaker 2: and say yeah, I'm feeling like this, and then we

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Speaker 2: can acknowledge it and we can say, yeah, there's something

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Speaker 2: we can do about it. So, even though there's tremendous,

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Speaker 2: unpreprecedented distress, you know, coming out of the pandemic, we're

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Speaker 2: seeing people really facing these challenges.

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Speaker 1: I have so much more.

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Speaker 2: Hope than I did twenty five years ago because we're

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Speaker 2: talking about this so very openly.

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Speaker 1: Right, There's another thing that areaways kind of concerns me.

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Speaker 1: It's just like, how does someone when they see so

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Speaker 1: many signs of dressed and struggling. What's the proper way

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Speaker 1: for you, as a friend or you as a family

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Speaker 1: member to approach that person without sending the alarm bell

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Speaker 1: for without them retreating away from you.

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Speaker 2: Just hitting it had on you know, hitting it. You know,

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Speaker 2: it feels to me or it looks to me like

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Speaker 2: you're in a lot of pain, you know, and I

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Speaker 2: want to be here from you for you. Do you

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Speaker 2: want to talk about it? I've been in pain before,

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Speaker 2: you know. I'm not afraid to talk to you about that.

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Speaker 2: And I think the more and more we do public

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Speaker 2: education about what to do. You know, we've done it.

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Speaker 2: You know, I knew to take an aspirin when I

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Speaker 2: was having a heart attack because people told me. You know,

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Speaker 2: I've heard that on the radio, right, take an aspirin,

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Speaker 2: or you know, women should take aspirin, or women have

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Speaker 2: jaw pain when they have, you know, heart attacks. I

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Speaker 2: knew that because I heard public health messaging. We need

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Speaker 2: to teach your everyday people how to do mental health

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Speaker 2: first aid. You know how to say you know you

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Speaker 2: really are you know your behavior is concerning me, or

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Speaker 2: you know you've been really really sad lately and I'm

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Speaker 2: worried about you and know that it's okay to open

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Speaker 2: that discussion. But we also need to teach people what

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Speaker 2: to do. You know, if that person says, yes and

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Speaker 2: this is what I'm you know, I'm thinking of death

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Speaker 2: all the time, or I'm really really really sad. We

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Speaker 2: need to teach everybody what to do. Just like everyone

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Speaker 2: knows to call nine one one, we need to teach folks, Hey,

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Speaker 2: you can call nine eight eight and get a counselor

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Speaker 2: to help you through this conversation, So.

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Speaker 1: That would be your immediate thing. Hey, let's get another

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Speaker 1: teammate for you as nine eight eight right now, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: what are you teaching these community leaders so they can

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Speaker 1: get that message out a lot more like you're saying

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Speaker 1: that the message you have that you had heard through

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Speaker 1: your physical health, what are the biggest messages you're putting

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Speaker 1: out to those community leaders.

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Speaker 2: We're trying to pull it and and I know at Caroline,

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Speaker 2: we've tried to pull together what we call community collaborative meetings.

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Speaker 2: So we look at a community, maybe it's a county,

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Speaker 2: maybe it's a region, and we bring together anyone that

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Speaker 2: someone may come in contact with when they're having a crisis,

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Speaker 2: might be, you know, sometimes emergency services, it could be

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Speaker 2: emergency rooms, it could be a crisis provider. It could

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Speaker 2: be you know, a shelter, or people who provide food assistance.

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Speaker 2: We bring all those types of providers together into community

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Speaker 2: meetings to talk about what happens to someone who has

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Speaker 2: a crisis in your community and how can we work

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Speaker 2: better together to make sure that that person has a

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Speaker 2: good experience. And the number one thing that I that

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Speaker 2: I'm really proud that we do is that we include

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Speaker 2: people who've actually used the crisis system. So people who

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Speaker 2: had that lived experience and their families to say, you know,

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Speaker 2: what happened when you had that very bad day, how

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Speaker 2: did the system take care of you or didn't take

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Speaker 2: care of you? And how can we all work together

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Speaker 2: to make that better? And I think of it as

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Speaker 2: you know, the relationships between all of us who provide

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Speaker 2: those services. We have to have very strong relationships with

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Speaker 2: one another, so we know who to call for what

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Speaker 2: kind of you know, resource, and those relationships make up

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Speaker 2: the fiber of a safety net, so that we're all

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Speaker 2: coming together so that you know, when our you know,

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Speaker 2: when our neighbor has a really bad day, we're all

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Speaker 2: working together to make sure they get the care they need.

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Speaker 1: And I think another message that people really need to

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Speaker 1: understand out there is you can come back from it.

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Speaker 1: So I think a lot of people are afraid to

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Speaker 1: ask for the help because they're thinking, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: when lose my job, when we lose my relationships and

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Speaker 1: lose this, but there is coming back from it. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's you know, what could be better message,

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Speaker 1: you know, send out there's a message so people can

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Speaker 1: understand that.

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Speaker 2: I think when we talk about you know, suicide Prevention

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Speaker 2: Month comes up, in September, and I'm always asked, you know,

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Speaker 2: to help write an article or you know, to help

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Speaker 2: you know, talk about what we need to do to

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Speaker 2: prevent suicide. And I always say, and a lot of

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Speaker 2: people who work in this field will say, you need

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Speaker 2: to include messages of hope. You need to include people,

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Speaker 2: you know, such as yourself, who talk about mental health

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Speaker 2: very openly. You know, when you have messages. You know,

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Speaker 2: we see these articles that say there's unprecedented stress and

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Speaker 2: the suicide rate is so high in the OPUHAD crisis,

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Speaker 2: and yes, all these things are true, but we also

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Speaker 2: need to include stories of hope. You know, for everyone

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Speaker 2: who dies by suicide, they're actually two hundred and eighty

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Speaker 2: people who think about it but don't. Why is that, Well,

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Speaker 2: it's because there's hope. There's help, and there's hope. So

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Speaker 2: I think the more that we are able to disclose

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Speaker 2: and when people who have great influence are willing to

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Speaker 2: say this happened to me, and here I am today.

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Speaker 2: You know, no one ever gave me a hard time

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Speaker 2: or thought that I would not be able to do

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Speaker 2: my job after I had my heart attack. Right, it

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Speaker 2: should be the very same thing, you know, when we

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Speaker 2: have brain pain, it's no different than having chest pain,

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Speaker 2: and we can come back from it.

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Speaker 1: I tell sports teams all the time. Listen, mental health

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Speaker 1: is just too reactive, you know, physical health wise, You

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Speaker 1: guys don't just run routes when you think you're getting slower,

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Speaker 1: catch passes when you think you have the drops, you

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Speaker 1: do it always. Or if you broke your arm in

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Speaker 1: the past you had a cast on, everybody signed your

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Speaker 1: cast we brag about it. Yeah, well right, only going

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Speaker 1: after the sky has fallen, or if we do have

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Speaker 1: issues behind it, instead of to be proud of it,

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Speaker 1: I think that's really a message that hey, yeah, I've

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Speaker 1: had these issues and I've either used them to my

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Speaker 1: advantage or overcome them.

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Speaker 2: Well and the other the other thing I've said to

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Speaker 2: someone recently. You know when when when you go into

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Speaker 2: the hospital to have your appendix out, you know, people

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Speaker 2: bring you cast roles at your house right afterwards. Well,

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Speaker 2: people don't do that when their loved one has been

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Speaker 2: hospitalized for behavioral health. Why not you know, take some

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Speaker 2: spaghetti over. You know, you know acknowledge that you know

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Speaker 2: someone has had you know, it's a physical it's a

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Speaker 2: physical condition. Let's acknowledge that and let's help each other

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Speaker 2: through it, and it touches everyone.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you for personal advice because now

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Speaker 1: that I talk about mental health, i write my book,

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Speaker 1: I get a lot of people who will message being

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Speaker 1: hitting me up, wanted me to step in and help them.

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Speaker 1: But I'm not a therapist. I'm just a dude who's

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Speaker 1: messed up, who's learned how to be good with his

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Speaker 1: messed up this and be proud of his mental scars

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Speaker 1: and give it words for buddy. My messaging messaging has

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Speaker 1: always been leaning to your teammates. It's not me right

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Speaker 1: leaning to your team. But I always get nervous if

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Speaker 1: a message doesn't go back to that person. Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: what am I going to do? So give me some advice.

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Speaker 1: If somebody says to me, I don't know, it's just

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Speaker 1: a random DM and who's getting angry that I won't

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Speaker 1: get back to them, and they seem filled with more

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Speaker 1: and more despair, what could me or my team send

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Speaker 1: that person or I won't send them off the defend

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Speaker 1: and they think that you know, I can at least

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Speaker 1: give them care, But again, I know it's not my

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Speaker 1: area of expertise.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well, you know you can always ask, you know,

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Speaker 2: is there someone you know? I you know, I want

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Speaker 2: you to be okay, right, and I want you to

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Speaker 2: get help that you need, and I want you to

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Speaker 2: have someone to listen to you. Do you have anyone

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Speaker 2: in your life that you would be willing to tell

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Speaker 2: this information too? Is there anyone you'd be willing to

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Speaker 2: reach out or.

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Speaker 1: Recognize who those people are in your life?

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Speaker 2: And if not, you know, know that there are resources,

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Speaker 2: right and you know there are people twenty four to

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Speaker 2: seven available via call, text in chat on nine to

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Speaker 2: eight eight, and you know it doesn't have to be

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Speaker 2: a situation where thing someone It's called the Suicide and

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Speaker 2: Crisis Lifeline, but they've changed it so it's it also

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Speaker 2: says the Crisis Lifeline as well, so that people understand

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Speaker 2: that it's just not about suicide. There are all sorts

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Speaker 2: of different things that people get into crisis about. It

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Speaker 2: could be substance use, it could be just you know,

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Speaker 2: feeling really severe depression, and it's okay to reach out.

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Speaker 2: And you know, phone tech, you know, some people might

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Speaker 2: be a little reticent about making a phone call. It's

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Speaker 2: it's that's harder to do it's it's never easy to do,

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Speaker 2: but a text or a chat feels a little bit

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Speaker 2: more anonymous. Are you willing to chat with someone? You

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Speaker 2: know there are people available twenty four to seven. But also,

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Speaker 2: you know, just educating the broader community that if someone

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Speaker 2: comes to you, you know, it's okay, and it's okay

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Speaker 2: to say, you know what, I can't resolve your problems.

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Speaker 2: I'm willing to listen, and I'm willing to be the

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Speaker 2: one to help provide you some support in the moment.

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Speaker 2: But let's see if we can get you some professional help.

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Speaker 2: I let you go.

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Speaker 1: I guess my tempoles in unbreakable to get through a

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Speaker 1: lot of my mental health challenges. Or find your team

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Speaker 1: and lean into your team, be of service. Whenever I'm

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Speaker 1: in service, my depression, my grade certainly lessens a lot.

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Speaker 1: Laughter is huge for me. Proud of my stars is

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Speaker 1: really big for me. So I don't feel this shame

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Speaker 1: or this stigma. I'm proud of Just like I said,

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Speaker 1: we used to brag about your cast and break in

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Speaker 1: your arm. Give me and give our listeners some of

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Speaker 1: the best tools that you could provide it. You could

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Speaker 1: tell us about when they're going through their mental health challenges.

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Speaker 2: Number one is just to talk about it right. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter who finds someone in your life that allow

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Speaker 2: you to be yourself unapologetically and just to talk right

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Speaker 2: and just to talk about how you're feeling. Know that

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Speaker 2: there are resources out there. There are people available and

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Speaker 2: ready to listen twenty four to seven who are non judgmental.

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Speaker 2: You know, they're not trying to you know, they're not

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Speaker 2: going to send a police car to your house. I mean,

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Speaker 2: these are these are people who are just willing to

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Speaker 2: listen and to help you problem solve and they're available

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Speaker 2: twenty four to seven. You know, don't be ashamed. You

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Speaker 2: know these challenges. One in five Americans is walking around

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Speaker 2: right now with a diagnosable mental illness. And that doesn't

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Speaker 2: even include people who are who are facing challenges that

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Speaker 2: are painful, that are diagnosable, right, I mean, we all

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Speaker 2: have challenges. Don't be ashamed. Know that we all face

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Speaker 2: these challenges and talking about it can make such a

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Speaker 2: tremendous difference.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. You know, again, I love my

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Speaker 1: partnership with with Carolyn. Every time, you know it's your

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Speaker 1: second guest from Caroline. But I learned I think we

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Speaker 1: all learn. The more we have these conversations with people,

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Speaker 1: they realize, Okay, we're all we're all this both together.

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Speaker 1: And I talk about having a team. I'm proud to

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Speaker 1: have you on the team, proud to be part of it.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for reaching out. We're always here.

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Speaker 1: God blessed. Thank you for your work.

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Speaker 2: Thank you