1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: February two thousand four, Maurra Murray empties her bank account, 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: drives four hours from school, crashes her car and vanishes. 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: Joined the search as an investigative reporter, uncovers new evidence, 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: interrogates new witnesses, and traces down new leads in this 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: riveting new investigative series, The Disappearance of Maurra Murray. Tomorrow 6 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: eight fifteen, seven fifteen Central on Oxygen, the new network 7 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: for crime Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM 8 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: Triumph Channel one thirty two. Sunday will mark ten years 9 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: since anyone has seen or heard anything from a woman 10 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: named Maura Murray. Now the college studn't crashed her car 11 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: one twelve and north have miles north of the U 12 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: mass Amherst campus. Mara had vanished. When police arrived. There 13 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: was what appeared to be indications that she may have 14 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: been running away, but her father and investing ters think 15 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: there is much more to her disappearance. My initial thought 16 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: is still my what I think, and that's somebody locally 17 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 1: grabbed on a mission to find his missing daughter. Maura 18 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: bred Murray went to Conquered to see Governor Lynch. Frustrated 19 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: with the state police investigation into her disappearance. Mr Murray 20 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: is asking the governor to release all her case files, 21 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: and he'd like the FBI to get involved in the investigation. 22 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: She had her world in front of her, a twenty 23 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: one year old, gorgeous nursing student from Hanson, Massachusetts. She 24 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,919 Speaker 1: goes out in her car, she has a fender bender, 25 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: she gets out of the car, and she vanishes. Maura 26 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: Murray has never been seen alive again. I Nancy Grace, 27 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us, 28 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: joining me right now to break it down and put 29 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: it back together again and try to get answers about 30 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: Maura Murry. The search is ongoing. Former US martial art 31 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: Roderick and investigative journalist Maggie Freeling. Guys, thank you so 32 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: much for being with us. First of all, I want 33 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: you to hear what the dad says. What do you 34 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: think happened to Mara. I think somebody, some somebody grabbed 35 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 1: maybe somebody hearing it in a scanner or something like that. 36 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: I think there's a Monday night It isn't there's nothing 37 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,399 Speaker 1: really going on. It's not a tourist type of deal. 38 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: I think a local dirt bag grabbed it, and I 39 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: know she would have called me that that Monday night 40 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: as you were able. Then the accident happens, and that 41 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: changes everything. Change. Whatever plan she had is out the window. 42 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: Whatever she was trying to do is now she's got 43 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: a whole new set of circumstances. It's got to be 44 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: frustrating that the same possibilities that you were dealing with 45 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: the Wednesday afterwards are still all in play, exactly the 46 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: same thing, the same thing. Now there's there's no question 47 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: about whether I'm gonna look for you know, this is 48 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: my kid. Uh my kid wants me to look for her. 49 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do. I'm gonna look for my kid. You know, 50 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: I don't know what happened to her. I mean, I 51 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: don't have Maura, I don't have a body, you know. 52 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: I'm I'm I have to I have to think in 53 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 1: these terms. But the case, certainly it's an olva to 54 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: Maggie free Lang again, thank you and Art for being 55 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: with us. Take me back to the evening the day 56 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: that Maura Murray disappeared. What happened? So from what we know, 57 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: um happened because we do have receipts from a liquor 58 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: store and at m footage with time stamps. Maura dropped 59 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: off some clothing at a nursing friend's dorm, headed to 60 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: the A p M. Withdrew all of the money from 61 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: her bank account, which was around two and then she 62 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: headed to the liquor store, but up liquor, hopped in 63 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: her car and drove up towards New Hampshire. UM. We 64 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: don't know where she was going, but the fender bender 65 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: happened in haveral Um and that is the last time 66 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: anybody saw her. UM bus driver Butch Atwood was coming 67 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 1: home from work head around seven pm and says he 68 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: had a conversation with a young woman who appeared shaken 69 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: up right near his house in a car accident. He 70 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: asked her if she wanted him to call the police, 71 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: and he says she said no, she called Triple A. However, 72 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: he knew that was not true because even today you 73 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: do not get any sort of cell phone reception in 74 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 1: that area. So Butch, the Butch bus driver, went home 75 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 1: and he called to Aren't Roderick, former US Marshall art, 76 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: isn't it true that something got hanky with a nine 77 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: one one call? Was it diverted what happened, you know 78 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: when and Butch Atwood got back to his um house, 79 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 1: which was only about a hundred yards from the accident location, 80 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: he called one and according to him, there was there. 81 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: The call was either busy. Then it got diverted to 82 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: a different county dispatcher and they forward the call back 83 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: to the Grafton County, which was in the area where 84 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: the original nine one one call should have gone. That 85 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: dispatcher from Grafton County actually ended up calling back Butch Atwood. 86 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: And that's kind of like how this whole call came together. 87 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: This girl, Maura Murray, who disappears on Fab nine after 88 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: a car crash on Route one twelve. Have her heell 89 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: New Hampshire. It's I say, out in the middle of nowhere, 90 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: but I grew up in an area just like that, 91 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: very very rural. Now. Moura Murray was a nursing student 92 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: at University Massachusetts Amherst. That afternoon she left campus, but 93 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: before she left, she emailed her professors and her supervisor, 94 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: writing she was going to take a week off due 95 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: to a death and her family. Now, this is the 96 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: weird part. Nobody in her family has ever been able 97 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: to confirm that any death occurred, not even recently. There 98 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: was no death in her family. Okay, we know that. 99 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: Now here's the problem. This so often happens. Police initially 100 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: treated her case as a missing person's case, thinking she 101 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: wanted to disappear, and that speculation was all because she 102 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: had made preparations to travel and there seemed to be 103 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: no evidence of foul play. But many people, including myself, 104 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: are convinced that Maura Murray was kidnapped that day, and 105 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: I believe she's dead. It's very hard for me to 106 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:02,679 Speaker 1: believe that Maria Murray somehow created a whole new life 107 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: Maggie Freeling, investigative journalist somewhere else and has never contacted 108 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: her family. Again, that's hard for me to blame Maggie. Yeah, 109 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: And you know, I think that's also kind of them 110 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: perspective that I was able to put into this. I mean, 111 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: I was a twenty one year old girl who did 112 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: go to U mass and I found so many similarities 113 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: between Maura and myself. And while this, you know, this 114 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: whole theory came from James Runner. You know, while this 115 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: tandem driver she escaped started a new life seems really 116 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: sexy and he can make it compelling. Um, you know, 117 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: having been in her situation, I think it is also 118 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: very unlikely that that is something that she did. What 119 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: are you saying made it's sexy? James Runner, the author 120 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: his whole book came out True Crime Addict, and his 121 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: whole theory in the book is that she, you know, 122 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: was driving up there with a tandem driver, a friend 123 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: or somebody who helped her escape and start a new life. 124 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: When you're saying she started a whole new live based 125 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: on this book by James Renner. UM True Crime Addict 126 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: by James Renner, True Crime Addict, How I Lost myself 127 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: in the mysterious disappearance of Maura Murray. Maggie, you disagree 128 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: with Renner's portrayal of what happened to mar Murray? What 129 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: exactly is he claiming happened? So, you know, I wouldn't 130 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: say I necessarily disagree. I just don't see it being 131 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: the most likely possibility in this day and age. But 132 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: this wasn't like the eighties where there was no you know, 133 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: internet trades, no cell phones. I mean, I so James 134 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: Renner is claiming that Maura, when she left U Mass 135 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: had a plan to drive away with a tandem driver, 136 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: a friend, a family member, somebody that was going to 137 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: help her escape and start a new life, escape from what. Yes, 138 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: she had once using uh stolen credit card to buy 139 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: some food, all right, she had a fenderbender with her 140 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: dad's car. There's nothing to escape. This girl had gone 141 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: to West Point, she was about to start a nursing career. 142 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: She had a high school sweetheart, Billy rash Uh stationed 143 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: at Fort Seale in Oklahoma, that she was going to marry. 144 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: She's gorgeous, she's young, she's healthy. Escape what so, I'm 145 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: not sure what we're winter is headed with this, but 146 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: the fact that she stopped and made some purchases and 147 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: was planning to take a week off, which she told 148 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: everybody that. I mean, I don't think the crash was 149 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: part of the plan. And if she wanted to disappear, 150 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: she could have done that. And back to his theory, 151 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: Maggie Freeling, who was this quote in tandem driver? In 152 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: other words, somebody's driving along with her or is going 153 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: to meet her somewhere. It's not the body and her family, right, 154 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: And I think there there are many things to what 155 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 1: you just said. I mean, she did have a fender bender. Yes, 156 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: you know, before this one, she also crashed her dad's 157 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: car right before she disappeared. Um, yes, she stole from 158 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: Fort Knox Um. Renner also claims that her relationship with 159 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: her boyfriend Bill Roush was not great. Um. Neither was 160 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: my relationship with my high school boyfriend. That's why, thank 161 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 1: you lord, I didn't marry him as wonderful as he 162 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: seemed when I was sixteen. Uh So the fact that 163 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: that wasn't working out. You know, you can make a childish, 164 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: immature decision, aren't Roderick, But you really think she would 165 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: have kept up the force of a disappearance for all 166 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: this time and cut herself off from her parents and family. 167 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 1: I mean, the answer you've you've you know, you've been 168 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,679 Speaker 1: in the law, enforce, the judicial area for criminal justice 169 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: process for a lot of years. It's almost impossible, I think, 170 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: in this day and age for twenty one year old 171 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: girl to just drop off the face of the earth. 172 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: Uh intentionally. And I think Renner's theory is based on 173 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: a lot of false premises because what actually occurred was 174 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: he never really got to speak to a lot of people. 175 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: The family refused to talk to him. Uh, you know, 176 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: a lot of her friends didn't talk to him, so 177 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: I think he's based theory on a lot of false 178 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: premises and rumor and innuendo. I like you and Maggie, 179 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,479 Speaker 1: and I also agree to that there's that there's probably 180 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: she was grabbed in this, some foul play involved in 181 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: her disappearance. I have no doubt in my mind, and 182 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: I'm not trashing then because his book brought a lot 183 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: of attention to the marmur And case, and I'm grateful 184 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: for that, and a lot of his research has really 185 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: helped mentcy. I have a clip I'd like to play 186 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: of Maggie interviewing Keim and Lance. We've interviewed them before. 187 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: They're the podcasters, the missing Maura Murray podcasters, And this 188 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: is a clip about the timeline of what happened that night, 189 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: and it is a clip from the Disappearance of Maura Murray. 190 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: Did you guys get interested in the case? Just being 191 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: interested in the in true crime overall and U Maura's 192 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: case always comes up once you start reading about it. 193 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: It just starts like unlayering and unfolding and just before 194 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: you know what, you're like down the rabbit hole. The 195 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: mystery within the mystery is why was she heading up 196 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: there in the first place. Do you guys have an 197 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: opinion on why do you think she was heading up there? 198 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: I can't really say I do. We tried really hard 199 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: to not have fear. Tell me a little bit about 200 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 1: the crash. Uh Well, based on the police transcripts and 201 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: the call log, a neighbor calls. A pat with a 202 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: bus driver pulls up who was also a neighbor and 203 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: talks to her. She said she already called her. Blage 204 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 1: is a lie because there's no cell phone service up there, 205 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: so she could not have gotten a call up and 206 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: he knew that immediately. And I think that is like 207 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: the most fascinating thing, at least for me, that this 208 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 1: accident happens. There were eyes on the accident. It is 209 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: in the White Mountains in New Hampshire. But there's a 210 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: house there. There's a house here. Someone pulls up and 211 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: talks to her, there's phone, calls me to and right 212 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: at this moment where apparently everybody turned around or he 213 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: wasn't looking, she's gone. And that window of opportunities like 214 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: mind belonging to me. It's baffling. How long is that window? Um? 215 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: You can probably narrow it down to about seven minutes. 216 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: Figuring out why Morea vanished sometime during those seven minutes 217 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: when the neighbors turned away and didn't see anything is crucial. 218 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: Oh Omura disappeared in a remote part of New Hampshire. 219 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: The ROADSI crashed on was well traveled, which brings me 220 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: to the theory of foul play. Let's take a look 221 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: at the players we know of. It's the last week 222 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: of National Make a Will muth at legal Zoom. They're 223 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: still time to take control of your family's assets and 224 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: their future. 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For special savings, 234 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: be sure to enter code Nancy in a n c 235 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: Y at checkout Legal zoom dot com, Legal zoom dot com. 236 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: Alright where I left off, let me think, Oh, yes, 237 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: foul play. Can you imagine that? Can you imagine that? 238 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: Alan do? That's what I'm focusing on, foul play. And 239 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: I can tell you something. This girl didn't just disappear. 240 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: She didn't go off on her own for soul searching 241 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: or to find herself or just start a new life 242 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: in Oh, she's dead. Okay. I can tell you that 243 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: right now from my studio and my series of sex 244 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: M one three two show She's dead. Okay. So now 245 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: that I've established that in my mind, can we get 246 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: to work and try to figure out what happened. Let's 247 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: start with the crash. Okay, Arn't Roderick, former US Marshall, 248 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: Maggie Freeling investigative journalist, and of course the Duke Alan. 249 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: Do you joining me along with my friend here in 250 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: the studio, Jackie Um. Arn't Roderick. Tell me about this crash, 251 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: because art I don't care who wrote what in their book. 252 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: She did not plan for a crash that day, all right, 253 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: that through the monkey wrench in the work. So tell 254 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: me about the crash. I mean, when you when you 255 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: look at the crash scene you had mentioned it's a 256 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: rural area. It is kind of a rural area, but 257 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: there are about twenty houses within a half mile radius. 258 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: So where this accident occurred. The accident occurred on room once. Well, 259 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: it's it's like at the beginning of the kink Comengus 260 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: Highway in New Hampshire. It's a two lane highway and 261 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: there was a sharp almost ninety degree turn that she 262 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: couldn't negotiate and she kind of clipped the inside elbow 263 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: of that whoa art art. I love you, man, but 264 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: I'm drinking from a fire hydrant here too much at once, 265 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: too much, I'm not to let me just let me 266 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: just break it down for a minute because it's actually 267 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: for Alan deep because he just can't process that quickly. 268 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, so let's just hold on um, poor guy. 269 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: He and you're so much So we've got mar Murray. 270 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: She's going along the Cake and Mangus Highway there in 271 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: New Hampshire. First of all, is it rural, yes? Is 272 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: it heavily wooded? Heavily wooded? Yes? Is there a body 273 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: of water nearby? My chance, there's there's a pond sort 274 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: of a mile from it's called French pond. It's about 275 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: a mile from where the accident occurred. Are you saying 276 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 1: French or fresh French? French? Okay, as in the country 277 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: freence al right, Okay, So she's driving along. What are 278 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 1: the weather conditions? Just curious. Do we know it's cold, 279 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: it's February. There was about two and a half but 280 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 1: pet snow on the ground, but the roads were clearing 281 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: two and a half did you say two and a 282 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: half feet? Well, about two ft of snow on the 283 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: side of the road. The roads are pretty clear, I 284 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: mean Hampshire. Okay. This is very significant to me because 285 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: in my mind, this greatly reduces the likelihood that somebody 286 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: stopped and engaged in conversation with her and farthering I'm 287 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: not getting I'm not putting one toe outside the car, 288 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: and also to me minimizes also it changes her actions 289 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: and reactions because it's freezing cold outside. But again, she 290 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: did not have sales service, so let's factor that in 291 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: no cell service. Hold on, hold on um Along the 292 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: street wretch where she had her collision, were there any 293 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: red lights, any businesses, any anything, or is it out 294 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: in the middle of forest? Now? There there there were 295 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: there was a business rate at the corner of that 296 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: sharp turn. There was several houses in the area about 297 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: what was the business and a half mile radius there 298 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: was several houses in the area. Okay, that is important 299 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 1: to me. Several houses within a half a mile. M Yeah, 300 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: there's actually there's actually one collar. The closest neighbor was 301 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:43,199 Speaker 1: only about from the accident scene. Is that Butch Atwood? No, 302 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: that would have been the Westman's which Atwood lived about 303 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: a hundred yards from the accident scene. Straight down the road. 304 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: You could actually see which Atwood's residents from the accident scene. 305 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: But there was a home forty feet away from the craft. 306 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: This is ok this is Nancy. This is what's really incredible. 307 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: And you go up there, you know, Art and I 308 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: both expected it to be, you know, super rural. Nobody 309 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: was around. But when you get to a crash site, 310 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 1: it actually like it is a neighborhood. There are houses there. 311 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: And yes, the Westman's house was basically on top of 312 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,239 Speaker 1: the crash site, and just maybe a hundred yards down 313 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: the road are three other houses. So there were many 314 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: many eyes on this scene. Guys, just hold on, let 315 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,479 Speaker 1: me process this. I was you know, joking around with 316 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: Alan Deep for a minute. But this is completely different 317 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 1: than what I imagined. This changes everything. It absolutely changes 318 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: everything because if she had when I say, crash, it 319 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: was basically a fender bender. I think, Um, yes, the 320 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: car could have driven out of there. That was my 321 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: next question. Hold on, hold on, I'm taking notes as 322 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 1: fast as I can. So her car could have driven 323 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: out of there. Is that what you said? Yes? Yes? 324 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: Was it off the road? Is there some reason she 325 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: would just keep going? Well, what we found is we actually, uh, 326 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: as part of the show, we actually went out and 327 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: purchased the Saturn, the same model that she had at 328 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: this particular time. We took it to a garage mechanic 329 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: did several tests on it, and we found that when 330 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: that model of that satur installs out, which which more 331 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: than likely happened installed out when it kind of had 332 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: that fender bender, Um, you have to take the key 333 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: out of the ignition before you can put it back 334 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: in to restart the vehicle. I don't think she knew that, 335 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 1: because when they downloaded the black box inside the vehicle 336 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: to do some tests on it, they found that after 337 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: the air bags deployed, there was seven clicks ignition and 338 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: the vehicle wouldn't start. So, um, we think that she 339 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: didn't realize that she had to take the key out 340 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 1: and put it back in to restart the vehicle. Wow. 341 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,479 Speaker 1: Hold on, so that was revealed with the black box. 342 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: That was revealed with the black box inside the car, 343 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: but also revealed by a mechanic car mechanic. Uh, he 344 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 1: took this particular model of vehicle too. He said, you 345 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: have to remove the key out of the admission to 346 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: actually start the vehicle back up again. Wasn't it art? 347 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,199 Speaker 1: Wasn't it her car? Wouldn't she have known that if 348 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: it was her car? Well, I I you would think that, 349 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 1: But I was kind of shocked because I didn't realize 350 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: that with the the issue with the vehicle. I mean, 351 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 1: how many times did the car stall out? It was 352 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: an automatic transmission in that particular Saturn, and she probably 353 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: never had it stalled out before. Now, the car did 354 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: have some mechanical issues to it. Her father was getting 355 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: ready to buy her a newer, used vehicle so that 356 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: she could get back and forth to her school, but 357 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: the car was not in good running condition. But she 358 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 1: probably just didn't know that you just take the key out, 359 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: put it back in. Well, I gotta tell you something. 360 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: I've had my Toyota. I had my for I guess 361 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 1: twelve years. When I got when I was sixteen. I 362 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: had so many problems with it. And it was not 363 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: the Toyota's fault, you know, Okay, I didn't know you 364 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 1: had to put oil in it. Nobody told me that. 365 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: I just knew about gas. So, needless to say, the 366 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: fact that I had the car for thirteen years does 367 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: say that Toyota is a pretty good car, no matter 368 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: what I did to it. But when it wouldn't crank, 369 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: the first thing I would just instinctively do is take 370 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: the key out, pray and curse and carry on, and 371 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 1: then then try to crank it back up again. I 372 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: mean to me, that would just be natural instinct to 373 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: take the key out and then try it again and 374 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: try it again. But that's really interesting because a black 375 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: box can it tell you the key was never taken 376 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: out of the ignition and tell you that the mom 377 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: times that it was that it was attempted to be 378 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: turned over, and what when you look at the black box, 379 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: the black box indicated that there was a slight jar 380 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: in the vehicle, and then point two seconds later the 381 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: air bags deployed. It shows that in the black box 382 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: now after the airbags deployed, there was an attempt to 383 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: there was an attempt to turn the vehicle over. There 384 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: was seven clicks after the airbags deployed on the ignition itself. 385 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: You know, Maggie Freeling, investigative journalist. I'm just at this 386 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: moment feeling like I'm right there in that car that 387 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 1: Saturn with her and it's two ft of snow outside. 388 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: The airbags have deployed over a simple fender bender, and 389 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: she's trying seven times to restart the vehicle, and she 390 00:24:55,000 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: realizes I'm I'm stuck. Right. You know another thing you're 391 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:07,239 Speaker 1: telling me, Maggie, I had imagine something completely different. And 392 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: that's why I never went to a jury with a 393 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: case or two a major plea unless I went to 394 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: the scene, because that changes everything. I can't tell you 395 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 1: how many cases I won because the other side didn't 396 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 1: get off their lazy rear ends and go out on 397 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: the weekend or whenever and look at the crime scene, 398 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 1: take it in, go to the witnesses, houms homes, find them, 399 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: talk to them, question them, put it all together. But 400 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 1: seeing the scene makes all the difference. I thought she 401 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: was out on a curvy, windy road in the snow 402 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: with nobody around and some freaky dudes coming up asking 403 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: if she needed help. That's what I imagined in my head. 404 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 1: That's not That's not what it is at all. It's 405 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 1: a neighborhood. Okay, I understand the car thing. Let me 406 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: just ask you one last thing about the car, Maggie, 407 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: what does she shit? We believe she hit a snowbank, um, 408 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: and the car sort of bounced off of the snowbank. 409 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,360 Speaker 1: And there actually has been um, a lot of questions 410 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: and we still can't really get to the bottom of 411 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 1: whether the car was in the snowbank or not in 412 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 1: the snow bank, but it seemed like the car hit 413 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: the snowbank. Well, certainly their photos of where her car 414 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: was right there is a series there's a series of 415 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: photographs that were taken by the officer at the scene 416 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: that responded, UM, but we have not seen those. There's 417 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: a lot of issues going on in this particular case 418 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: where the Attorney General's Office in New Hampshire has a 419 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: lot of information to us, but it's also withholding a 420 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: lot of information in case they can actually come up 421 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: with the subspect. You know, my gut, my knee jort 422 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: reaction is they should release the remation. Why are they 423 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: doing that? But you know that's not always correct because 424 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: a lot of times false confessions have been ruled out 425 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: because the the liar didn't know the facts of the 426 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: murder or the case, and confessions or corroboration can be 427 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 1: ruled in because these people know things that have not 428 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: been released to the media. So I get it. Okay. 429 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: So we're in a neighborhood. She has a fenderbender, probably 430 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,640 Speaker 1: into the snow bank, and but it can't be that 431 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: much of a snowbank, because you know, you're in the 432 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: middle of a neighborhood. And she tries to recrank the car. 433 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: She may or may not know you've got to remove 434 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 1: the key from the ignition to make it work. We've 435 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 1: learned that from the black Box. And then she vanishes, 436 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: She completely vanishes. Listen to this. This coming Sunday will 437 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: mark ten years since anyone has seen or heard anything 438 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: from a woman named Maura Murray now the College Stude 439 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: crashed her car on one twelve and North Haverty, miles 440 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: north of the UMass Amherst campus. That she had left 441 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: just a few hours earlier. Mara had vanished when police arrived. 442 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 1: There was what appeared to be indications that she may 443 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: have been running away, but her father and investigators think 444 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: there is much more to her disappearance. My initial thought 445 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: is still my what I think, and that's somebody locally 446 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: grabbed him. Twelve years ago today more vanished from this 447 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: very spot on a cold, dark knight. She has not 448 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: been seen or heard from since. Is it safe to 449 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: call us armchair detectives with a camera and a microphone. 450 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: It's something that starts as a hobby and gradually grows 451 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: into something more obsessive. That he said to because blood 452 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: and people have said, ah, yeah, I don't know. I 453 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know that it's dangerous to do 454 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: something like we're doing right now. But there are some 455 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: questionable characters involved who may be listening at some point 456 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: hopefully what's going on right now? Well, we're in Lincoln, 457 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: New Hampshire. We're at the roadway end, and someone knew 458 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: we were going to be in Lincoln. There is no 459 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: way that someone that knows that their daughter is missing 460 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: knows why they're missing or had anything to do with it. 461 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: Would spend twelve years looking for their daughter. I would 462 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: put this whole thing on for twelve years, taking over 463 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: their lives. I know it took over mynd on a 464 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: mission to find his missing daughter, Mora Bred Murray went 465 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: to Conquer to see Governor Lynch. Frustrated with the state 466 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: police investigation into her disappearance. Mr Murray is asking the 467 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: governor to release all her case files, and he'd like 468 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: the FBI to get involved in the investigation. She was U, buddy, 469 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: and we want to act. There's the hotplation I can 470 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: stop looking for my daughter, so I'm never going to stop. 471 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: In seven minutes, seemingly, Moura Murray disappears. Question to you, 472 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: Maggie Freeling. Investigative journalists with me? Aren't Roderick former U. S. 473 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: Marshal with me, who have researched and investigated this case exhaustively. Maggie, 474 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: what about the people that lived right around the little 475 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: finderbend or didn't they see anything? It's really bizarre. I mean, 476 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: there must have been unless somebody saw something that they 477 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: don't want to say. There must have been a moment 478 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: where everybody who was looking at the scene turned around 479 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: and when they were all investigated, or when when all 480 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 1: of the neighbors were spoken to um they did say, 481 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: you know, butch Atwood he got out of his bus 482 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: and went into the house to call nine one one. 483 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: I mean he turned around for that moment. I mean 484 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: there must have been a moment where everybody turned around 485 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: and didn't see what happened. I I don't believe that. 486 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: I don't believe that that everybody at one moment. You 487 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: know what, what's funny, Alan, do you? I've investigated so 488 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: many cases where there are a ton of people, but 489 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: for instance, let's just say it's a shooting, but the 490 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: moment I would say, well, okay, he's got the gun 491 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: in his hand, it's pointed. Then what happened? I don't know. 492 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: Ms Grace. I looked at the window right then. I 493 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: don't know what happened. I just heard a pop and 494 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: nobody happens to be looking at that precise moment, which 495 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,959 Speaker 1: I find really not only hard to believe, but statistically 496 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: highly improbable. On the other hand, what time of the 497 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: day did this go down? Aren't Roderick? Yeah? The first 498 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: nine one one call came at SEM in February, so 499 00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: it's dark obviously, I mean that area is very dark, 500 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: so people are in their homes. They're not outside. They're 501 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: not outside sitting on the front porch. They're inside, probably 502 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: having supper, getting their children ready for school, watching TV. 503 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: They don't even know what's going down outside, you know, 504 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: under free from their home. So that means to me, 505 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: not many people saw it. How many nine one one 506 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,959 Speaker 1: calls where there aren't there There was two nine one 507 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: one calls. The first one came in at seven seven. 508 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: Then you have Butch Atwoods nine one one call probably 509 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: coming in around the same time. Now the lawn. The 510 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: dispatch log shows that the Sergeant Smith from Behaviral p 511 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: D called out at seven forty six. Now we talked 512 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: to him when he arrived at the scene. According to 513 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: the dispatch log at seven forty six, there was nobody 514 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: at the scene, so she was already gone at seven. 515 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: So Atwoods called, wait a minute, that was call? Is 516 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: at what time? Seven? To me to uh, we're not 517 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: exactly one pent sure because we haven't been able to 518 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: confirm that. What we have is the first time we 519 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: have at seven seven, and that's from the Westman's calling 520 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: Grafton County and the and the cop gets there at 521 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: what time at seven forty six is when he calls out? 522 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: But when we interviewed the police officer, he said when 523 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: he got there, he immediately got out of the vehicle 524 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: to make sure nobody was hurt, and he called out, 525 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: he says, a few minutes later, So he might have 526 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: been there at seven forty. Um, and the Westman's who 527 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: called at seven seven had eyes on Mora or somebody 528 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: that was driving that vehicle at that particular time. What 529 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: time is that at seven seven? Okay, hold on White, 530 00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: this name keeps popping up. But Atwood? Who is Butch Atwood? 531 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: And what Maggie does he have to do with this scenario? 532 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: Butch Atwood is the bus driver that drove by, and 533 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: he is, according to you know what, we've found, the 534 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: only person to have seen Moura that night or spoken 535 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: to Maura that night. I'm sorry, Butch Atwood is the 536 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: only person to have spoken to Maura. Um. Butch was 537 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 1: then the last person to have seen Maura. Huh? And 538 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: he he was He was a county school bus driver, 539 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: so he's hid a yellow school bus coming back from 540 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: dropping a bunch of kids off from the ski trip 541 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: at that particular time, and he's headed home, he sees 542 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: the accident. Um, there's there's sort of a little bit 543 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,760 Speaker 1: of a discrepancy in some of the statements that he's given. Unfortunately, 544 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 1: he passed away in two thousand nine. Um, so you know, 545 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: we aren't able to talk to him. But um uh, 546 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: he was a known individual to law enforcement in that 547 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: he was worked for the county. He was a friend 548 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: of the particular police officer that showed up at the scene, 549 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: and he was at by that police officer to help 550 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: him search the area. What do we know about him? 551 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: Not too much interesting individual. Yeah, he he his his 552 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,359 Speaker 1: family originally came from Massachusetts. They were sort of part 553 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: time police officers down there. Um. Sort of a strange guy, 554 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: a bit of a hoarder from what we understand, Um, 555 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: moved away from this area. Do you say a hoarder 556 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: from New Hampshire to Virginian And how old is how 557 00:35:54,800 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 1: old is he? He was older, middle aged sixties maybe yeah, yeah, okay, 558 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 1: sixty hoarder. What were you about to say, Maggie. Yeah. 559 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 1: From some records we have read by private investigators that 560 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:14,720 Speaker 1: interviewed right at you know, in two thousand six, Um, 561 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: they had interviewed some friends of the Atwoods, and apparently 562 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: friends never went into the house because it was just 563 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 1: so you couldn't you couldn't get into the house. It 564 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: was just so. So. He had his common law wife. Yeah, 565 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:37,720 Speaker 1: she lived there with him at the time Morrol went missing. Yes, children, 566 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: I don't think you know, we never had children, right, 567 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: So did she actually the wife lived there with him? 568 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: Are we sure they were cohabitative at the time? Yes? 569 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 1: But was he a hoarder at that time? Yeah? She 570 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: when when nine when one dispatcher called back, which Atwood's house, 571 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: they actually spoke to the White first. Is she still alive? 572 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: She's still alive. Yes, So the hoarding was in that home. 573 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: So there would have been an opportunity if you wanted 574 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 1: to hide something in a hoarder's home, who would ever 575 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:27,879 Speaker 1: find it? Yeah? I maviously. From from a law enforcement perspective, 576 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: you always look at the last person that had contact 577 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 1: with somebody that goes missing. Talking to the New Hampshire 578 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: State Police, the major crimes unit that had the case 579 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,439 Speaker 1: right now, they have for all intensive purposes, couldn't find 580 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,720 Speaker 1: anything to connect him with her disappearance. Did they search 581 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: his home? I they haven't told me that they have 582 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:59,240 Speaker 1: searched his home. Um, But I don't know the answer 583 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: to that. There's some stuff they've been pretty open to 584 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 1: us about and given us a lot of information. Other 585 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: things they haven't. Um. They have looked at everybody that 586 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: has had any type of contact with moral whatsoever, either 587 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: on a friendly basis of quick meeting. Um. The law 588 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: enforcement has done a lot. They have basically treated this 589 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:29,280 Speaker 1: case probably within a three to four time frame after 590 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 1: she went missing, three to four daytime frame. Behavioral PD 591 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: more or less just turned this over to the state police. 592 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 1: So they quasi investigated. Butch I would say more than 593 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 1: at that time. Okay, why do you say. I mean, 594 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 1: I'm not saying he's guilty. I'm just saying he's the 595 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: last one to see her in your right. There was 596 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: a couple of polygraphs given, there was a there was 597 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: a couple of grand juries that were initiated by the 598 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,399 Speaker 1: new after State Police to bring everybody in to get 599 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,919 Speaker 1: testimony on record. And they they have told me, they've 600 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,759 Speaker 1: told me and Maggie both that they do not have 601 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 1: any person of interest in this particular case. So it 602 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 1: appears to me that this is one of these incidents 603 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 1: where everybody that has had of contact with Maura in 604 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,320 Speaker 1: the past or around that timeframe that she went missing 605 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: has been investigated and cleared to a certain degree. Wow, 606 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,840 Speaker 1: what do we know about the witness Karen McNamara. Now 607 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: she's apparently the key witness to the biggest conspiracy theory 608 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: that UH John Smith has been pushing for many, many years, 609 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: and that's with the blessing apparently of the father, Fred Murray. 610 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: What do we know about that? I kind of think 611 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: it's far fancy trying to a the uh have her 612 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 1: Hill police. Yeah, I mean this is so we we 613 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: look into every single one of these theories thoroughly, and 614 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,320 Speaker 1: you know, we don't want to give too much away, 615 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,799 Speaker 1: but we look into it and we find Karen to 616 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: be a very credible witnessed and art personally. You know, 617 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: as law enforcement doesn't love our witness testimony, but both 618 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: of us when we sat down and spoke to her, 619 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, she she truly believed and we 620 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:35,279 Speaker 1: don't think she's making up what she saw. Wow, what 621 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: exactly is she's saying? She saw? What? Karen says she 622 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,719 Speaker 1: saw yeah, you can you can do Yeah, I mean 623 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 1: what she says she we we actually math about the timing. 624 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 1: Maggie and I actually drove the same robe she drove. 625 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: We drove with her and had her tell us exactly 626 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 1: what she was doing that particular evening and the route 627 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:03,240 Speaker 1: she took to go home from Woodsville to Lincoln, New Hampshire, 628 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,280 Speaker 1: which would have taken her along that stretch of highway 629 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 1: when Maura had her accident, when she she saw a 630 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 1: cruiser come by her twice with the lights and lights going, 631 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,719 Speaker 1: lights and siren responding to the accident scene. Um, she 632 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 1: took a more direct route. And you know, some of 633 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 1: those roads up there, we're pretty bad pot hold and 634 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,839 Speaker 1: it was very difficult to do any type of high 635 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 1: speed driving on those roads. So she actually saw the 636 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: cruiser come by her once, take a different route, come up, 637 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,439 Speaker 1: and come by her again, as it responded. The whole 638 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: question is she's saying that the vehicle was an SUV 639 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 1: when she got to the scene, the suv was pointing 640 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: nose to nose with More's vehicle. But and she pulled 641 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 1: over up near Butch Atwood's house, which was, you know, 642 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: about a hundred yards away. But she did not see 643 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 1: anybody at the scene at all. She didn't see the 644 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 1: drive of the vehicle that was in the accident, nor 645 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: did she see a police officer at the scene. That 646 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,719 Speaker 1: is basically her testimony in a in a nutshell. She 647 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,279 Speaker 1: stayed for a couple of minutes and then went home, 648 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: drove h home, and as soon as she could get 649 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 1: cell phone service, she actually called her house to let 650 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,240 Speaker 1: him know she was coming home. We have that specific time, 651 00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:25,800 Speaker 1: and we did all the distances, the you know, time 652 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 1: measurement of where she could have been and at what 653 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,319 Speaker 1: time she might have passed, uh the accident scene, and 654 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,120 Speaker 1: she she saw what she saw. Wow, it's kind of 655 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: hard to take the whole thing. You say, are you 656 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 1: telling me that you believe her? Yes, let me find 657 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,920 Speaker 1: her to be very credible. Yeah, okay, let's let's take 658 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 1: that to its next step. What what do you make 659 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: of allegations have her Hill police were responsible for Maura 660 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:04,240 Speaker 1: Murray's death and they've been covering it up for twelve 661 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:09,200 Speaker 1: years now. Isn't it true that Karen McNamara, who you 662 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: seem to believe, could have seen the police suv but 663 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: that police are not part of a cover up. I mean, 664 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 1: it's just hard for me. First of all, I don't 665 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,480 Speaker 1: think many people are smart enough to create a conspiracy, 666 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,880 Speaker 1: much least less keep it quiet for twelve years. What 667 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 1: about that art I am with you a d I mean, 668 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:37,240 Speaker 1: anybody it's been in that the law enforcement criminal justice 669 00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,919 Speaker 1: field knows that's almost impossible to do. Number one. Number two, 670 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 1: we do believe Karen mcamara and we go through this 671 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:49,879 Speaker 1: whole issue on the show. Um. And and I mean 672 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,720 Speaker 1: even when you sit down with with Fred, he doesn't 673 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:59,360 Speaker 1: believe that the police were involved in in Moore's disappearance. 674 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 1: I think when you look at it and you listen 675 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,200 Speaker 1: to the explanation from law enforcement, I mean, really, what 676 00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,239 Speaker 1: they were responding to was an abandoned vehicle in a 677 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 1: minor motor vehicle accident. And this happens every day in 678 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:18,239 Speaker 1: this country. Um, this is not an unusual call. Um. 679 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,080 Speaker 1: You know, I worked as a local police officer on 680 00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,799 Speaker 1: Cape cod for for three or four years, and I 681 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,719 Speaker 1: can tell you I came across incidents is like this, 682 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,240 Speaker 1: where the report of a nine or one call an accident, 683 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,800 Speaker 1: you arrive at the scene, it's mired, there's no personal injury, 684 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 1: there's very minor property damage to the car and no 685 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,160 Speaker 1: driver around. So you take the information down and just 686 00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,719 Speaker 1: move on to your next call. And that's basically what 687 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,719 Speaker 1: happened here. The search for mar Murray and for the 688 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: truth goes on with me. Is Maggie Freeling, investigative journalist 689 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:57,280 Speaker 1: and Aren't Roderick former U S Marshall. Join the crime 690 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:03,400 Speaker 1: Con Cold Case Club work alongside experts and fellow crime 691 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:08,400 Speaker 1: sleuths help uncover new leads and theories in cold cases 692 00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,840 Speaker 1: that they adopt. The very first case is focusing on 693 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:17,280 Speaker 1: the mysterious disappearance of this gorgeous young nursing student, Maura Murray. 694 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:22,959 Speaker 1: You're free to join thanks to Oxygen. You can sign 695 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:27,359 Speaker 1: up now and find out more at club dot crime 696 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:33,960 Speaker 1: con dot com. Club c l U B dot crime Con, 697 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:39,160 Speaker 1: c r I M A c o N dot com, 698 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:43,719 Speaker 1: Club dot crime con dot com. Our search for the 699 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:49,960 Speaker 1: truth is not ending here. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off. 700 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:59,719 Speaker 1: Goodbye friend. Do you find yourself obsessing over unsolved mysteries? 701 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:01,879 Speaker 1: You wish there was a group of people just like 702 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,839 Speaker 1: you to talk motives and alibis with. If so, join 703 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,040 Speaker 1: the crime Con Cold Case Club and work alongside experts 704 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,600 Speaker 1: and fellow crime sleuths to help uncover new leads and 705 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,600 Speaker 1: theories in the cold cases they adopt. Their first cold 706 00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,839 Speaker 1: case focuses on the mysterious disappearance of nursing student Maura 707 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,359 Speaker 1: Murray in two thousand four, and it's free to join 708 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,280 Speaker 1: thanks to Oxygen. Sign up now or find more info 709 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,359 Speaker 1: at Club dot crime con dot com. That's club dot 710 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:26,880 Speaker 1: crime con dot com.