1 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope 8 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it 9 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with 10 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much 11 00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: for joining me for session once we need two of 12 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. In today's episode, we're 13 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: digging into this season of Queen Sugar. If you're a 14 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: fan of the show, then you know that they've given 15 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: us a lots of drama this season, and we've really 16 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,839 Speaker 1: seen lots of ups and downs in the relationships between 17 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: the characters. So we'll be digging into all of that 18 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: this conversation. But before we do, let's show some love 19 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: to our sponsors. If you have been a part of 20 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: the Therapy for Black Girls community for some time, you've 21 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: likely heard me talk about the fact that I started 22 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls as a blog in September after 23 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: watching the Black Girls Rock awar show on b ET 24 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: that year. The energy in that room was then and 25 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: continues to be the kind of energy that Black girl 26 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: magic is made of. So I'm thrilled that one of 27 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: my favorite times of the year is here again. Black 28 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: Girls Rock airs on BT this Sunday, September eight at 29 00:01:55,240 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: eight pm seven pm Central. Former supermodel, activist and Black 30 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: Girls Rock founder DJ Beverley Bond understands the need for 31 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: spaces that celebrate and affirm Black women and girls. Black 32 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 1: Girls Rock is truly that kind of space. This year's 33 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: theme is our Legacy is Now. I mean every day 34 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: we see examples of this, from Coco Golf to Congresswoman 35 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: Ayana Presley too newly minted New York Times bestselling author 36 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 1: Bossy Ickpy, Black women and girls continue to do the 37 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: work of creating and securing a legacy. The always fierce 38 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: and now Emmy nominating niece Nash is our host as 39 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: Black Girls Rock Awards the excellence of brilliant actors Angela 40 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: Bassett and Regina King, music and fashion superstar Sierra. The 41 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: activists known as the mothers of the movement, Powerhouse producer 42 00:02:53,600 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: Deborah Morton, Chase, and musical phenom Her Plus Monica, Erico Vadou, 43 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: Ari Lennox, l Varner and Common are performing Black Girls 44 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: Rock can't be missed, so be sure to be tuned 45 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: in this Sunday, September eight at eight pm seventh Central 46 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: on b ET and follow me at Hello Dr Joy 47 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: on Twitter and join me as I live tweet about 48 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: all of the looks and moments using the hashtag black 49 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: Girls Rock. Now back to our episode for this deep 50 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: dive into this season of Queen Sugar, I was joined 51 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: by Dr Michelle Rodriguez. Dr Michelle has a group practice 52 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: called Collaborative Change Makers. Her work focus is on helping 53 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: people break patterns and create change in themselves, their relationships, 54 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: and their communities. Her areas of specialization include relationship concerns, perfectionism, 55 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: sports psychology, multicultural issues, and trauma. She's also the founder 56 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: of the Melanin Collective, an online psycho educational resource and 57 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: host of local events for black mental health. Through the 58 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: Melano Collective, she's able to utilize her passion for incorporating 59 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: black art and pop culture as a tool to start 60 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: important conversations about black mental health and to bring the 61 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: black community together to use its internal strengths and wisdom 62 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: for healing and growth. Dr Michelle and I chatted about 63 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: what kinds of things we might address if Novah came 64 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,119 Speaker 1: into therapy following the release of her book, the way 65 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: that we've seen many of the characters deal with big 66 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 1: emotions this season, our thoughts about Darla and Ralph Angel 67 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: seemingly reconnecting, and what we love to see as this 68 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: season wraps up. We love for you to join the 69 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 1: conversation and share your thoughts with us as you listened, 70 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: so please do so using the hashtag tpg in session 71 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: on social media. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much 72 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: for joining us today, Dr Michelle, no problem. I'm excited 73 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: to be here. Yeah, so I am excited for you 74 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: to join us. So I'm sure that a lot of 75 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 1: you knew that this episode was coming. We have got 76 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: to do some catching up on Queen Sugar, right. So, 77 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: there has been so much going on this season and 78 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: it almost feels like where do you even start? But 79 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: I think we have to start with the biggest kind 80 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: of you know, storyline. I think that we've seen this 81 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: season is Nova and this book. Yes, so you know, 82 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: for those of you have been paying attention, Nova kind 83 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 1: of wrote this memoir slash tell all that feels like 84 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: it told everybody's business, it scept her own, and the 85 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: fallout of that has been, of course tremendous. So I 86 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: am curious to hear Dr Michelle your thoughts about what 87 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: you think Nova was thinking with releasing this book. Well, 88 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: it's funny because to me when I saw Nova, it 89 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: just is like this thread to me throughout the brothers 90 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: and sisters is that first of all, they want to 91 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: do big things, They want to make a difference, They 92 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: want to shine light on problems and fixed problems, and 93 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: often just completely loose sight of what's happening along the 94 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: way to achieving whatever the end goal is. And so 95 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: to me, she just seemed like she was onto something 96 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: kind of like her magic, her vision, her passion, and 97 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: like she's done other times before, she just set a 98 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: lot of things on fire, burnt a lot of bridges, 99 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: and really wasn't being honest with herself about the potential impact, 100 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: obviously not honest with her family about what she was 101 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: doing and how it was going to impact them, right, 102 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: And you know. That's the point that I'm kind of 103 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: really stuck on, I think, and I found myself imagining, like, Okay, 104 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: if Novadh came into my office, and probably I mean 105 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: so because she didn't really think this I think was 106 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: that big of a deal. Like I think she used 107 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: the words of like I'm trying to like tell the 108 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: truth and set us free kind of thing. It really 109 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: feels like she didn't anticipate any real negative consequences from this, 110 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: So I'm thinking she likely would not have come into 111 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: the office before of the book release, but it's very 112 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: likely right then, seeing how this has kind of caused 113 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,359 Speaker 1: so many negative consequences, she might like seek therapy after 114 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: the book has been released and you know, knowing what 115 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: has happened. So what kinds of things that you think 116 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: you might talk with her about if she were to 117 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: come into your office, like post book release, now that 118 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: all of this stuff has happened. I think that the 119 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: first part would have to be creating enough safe space 120 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: for her to just talk about her feelings, because we 121 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: really have seen her experiencing grief, really broken hearted at 122 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: the estrangement from her family, really shocked and surprised, and 123 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: so I think initially would just have to be creating 124 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: enough safety for her to talk about those things and 125 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: understand that those things are real and that they're valid, 126 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:49,239 Speaker 1: and really probably just even getting that experience of feeling 127 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: her own feelings and getting curious, because I think what 128 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: I see happen a lot with her and with the 129 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: family and even with you know, with all of us 130 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: in real life, is that big ideas, big feelings, um 131 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: and we had in motion without really unpacking sorting through. 132 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: And so I think creating that space without judgment, because 133 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: you know in the book she was judging everybody, and 134 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: I think when we're in that mode, we're often judging 135 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: ourselves too, and not just creating space where we can 136 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: look at what we think and feel and see what's 137 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: there and what can be gained from it. So I 138 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: think that would be my first step with her, and 139 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: then I think asking her to be able to do 140 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: the same thing for some of the people in her family. 141 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: So what is she seeing and what has she heard 142 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: in terms of how it's impacted them, and can she 143 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 1: hold that same kind of curiosity and compassion and perspective 144 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: taking for them? I think one of the other things 145 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 1: that would probably be kind of the longer term work 146 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: is getting her to really dig into Okay, what are 147 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 1: your goals? Um, what are your values? And what are 148 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: the signs when you're off track from that? And how 149 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: do we anticipate those signs as opposed to just be 150 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: on the surprised side that we've gotten really disconnected from 151 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: our values and trying to achieve some in goal. Oh. 152 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: I like that. I think that that would have been 153 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: really helpful, right, because, like you said, kind of trying 154 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: to think through like Okay, what maybe the consequences and 155 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: what what am I really hoping to be the outcome 156 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: from this kind of book writing activity, like what am 157 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: I thinking will happen, and then comparing that, of course 158 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: versus what has actually happened. Yeah, because I definitely think 159 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 1: that she would say family above all are pretty darn 160 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: close to that, and so to be so and also transparency, 161 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: I think would be one of her really basic values, 162 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: and to be so out of line with that without 163 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: even the awareness that that was happening to me says 164 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: that there's not kind of a continual checking in with 165 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: that that she does. Got you, Yeah, And I agree 166 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 1: with you. I think family is incredibly important, which is 167 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: why I think so many people were shocked when and 168 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: she she seemed to go so off course with this book. 169 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: I mean, and and again, I think you know, when 170 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: you're hiding things from like loved ones in your life, 171 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: I think that is an indication that you are off track. Right, 172 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: So nobody knew the contents of the book before you know, 173 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: it was kind of released and kind of it was 174 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: leaked um to Charlie of course during that meeting. And 175 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: so I think that could be sometimes a place to 176 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,359 Speaker 1: spend some time with her incessions to to kind of say, Okay, 177 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: it looks like you were not wanting to share this 178 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: before a certain time. I'm wondering what that was about, 179 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: because it definitely felt like she was keeping secrets from 180 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: them um and didn't really want them to know the 181 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: contents of the book. Yeah, And I loved in this 182 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: last week's episode, like she had that moment of realness 183 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: where she said, like, I really didn't want anybody to 184 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: tell me no. And I think sometimes one of the 185 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 1: cool things about therapy is that you know that person. 186 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: You know, the counsel is not going to tell you no, 187 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: but they're gonna ask you to really sit with like 188 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,719 Speaker 1: what does it cost of this, you know, and who 189 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: does an impact and how And if we're okay with that, 190 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: then yeah, let's let's move forward. But if we're not, 191 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: let's sit with that tension. M hmm. Yeah. I love 192 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: that you said that, Dr Michelle, because, like you said, like, 193 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: we're not going to tell you know, in therapy, right, like, 194 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: all decisions are your own, um, and we're really just 195 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: kind of creating a space for you to kind of 196 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: talk through them and wagh the pros and cons and 197 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: think about, you know, the consequences. But like you said, 198 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: she did not want to be told no, which is 199 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: why even more likely that she would not have sought 200 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:34,199 Speaker 1: out the services of a therapist before she released this book. Yeah. Yeah, 201 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: So something else that I really thought was lovely and 202 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: I even tweeted about this is the moment I think 203 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: this was two episodes ago when she and Charlie really 204 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: were able to kind of have this really vulnerable conversation. 205 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: I think in terms of like all of this pain 206 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: that they both were holding onto related to their relationship, 207 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: and how amazing it could have been if they could 208 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: have had this conversation you know, two or three years ago, 209 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: Like would the book have still happened if there had 210 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: been space in their relationship for them to kind of 211 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: come to that place sooner. Yeah, I mean, I think 212 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: to me a theme throughout this season is like these 213 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: disconnecting relationships that don't have to happen if we're doing 214 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: the hard work and having the hard conversations. And I agree, 215 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: like they were able to sit down and hear really 216 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: for the first time what something was like from the 217 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 1: other person's perspective. I think we often assume that because 218 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: we were both there in the same moment, that we 219 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: experienced it the same. I think we often assume that 220 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 1: we know the wise of why somebody did something, and 221 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: it's almost as if in that moment they realized that 222 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: the other person had their whole own world going on, 223 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: their own struggles um that they didn't know about, and 224 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: if they could have communicated about that, something really different 225 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: could have happened. Yeah. Like you said, they both were 226 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: in the room but had a completely different vantage point 227 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: of how all of those events from. However, many years ago, 228 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 1: when was Charlie in college, I think she said, or 229 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: Nova was in college. You Nova was in college. The 230 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: Nova was in college and went to visit like completely 231 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: different recounts of what happened during that time, and so 232 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: only in this moment where they able to get to 233 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 1: the truth as they both saw it after there has 234 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: been this big blow up. And I think that that 235 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: is something else that I've seen that's kind of been 236 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: a theme for both Nova and Charlie is that they 237 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: can't or it seems really difficult for them to get 238 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: to these spaces of vulnerability unless there's a complete meltdown. 239 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: And so, you know, we have seen that, I think 240 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: a couple of times with Charlie, like I don't remember 241 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: which season it was, where she kind of had the 242 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: panic attack related to something happening in the mill. And 243 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: then of course we saw it recently this season where 244 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: she is at the bar drunk and Nova, you know, 245 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,479 Speaker 1: comes to rescue her, and it just seems like Charlie 246 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: cannot get like she can't access her feelings or really 247 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: kind of put her finger on what's happening with her 248 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: until things have really completely boiled over. Yeah, I actually 249 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: thought it was a little bit um ironic. I think 250 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: when they're when they're not in touch with their own 251 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: self awareness, they get kind of self righteous and judge 252 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: of of each other. And so when Nova says, you know, 253 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: I didn't want to be told no, I think in 254 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: that moment, Charlie is still kind of in a in 255 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: a self rightious and judge place, but she does the 256 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: same things in her own behavior. She gets really set 257 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: on something and isn't doesn't have a lot of people 258 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: who she's talking with her thinking process about, and just 259 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: does it. However, and so in some ways they really 260 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: have a lot more commonality around that pattern of both 261 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: getting disconnected from their values as they're trying to move 262 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: forward and make things happen, and getting disconnected with their 263 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: own coping with their own feelings. And honestly, I think 264 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: that's that's more common than we want to admit for 265 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: high achieving people. How achieving black people is that we 266 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: have big things that we have a lot of magic, 267 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: a lot of things that we want to see happen, 268 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: but we put healing and processing on the back burner, 269 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: and in these their ways and starts seeping out. So 270 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: can you talk more about how therapy might help to 271 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: take care of that disconnect, Like, how can we maybe 272 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: use therapy to help us stay connected to our values 273 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: and stay connected to the things that are important to 274 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: us as we're doing some of this big work. Yeah, 275 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: So in my work, a lot of times, my my 276 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: practice is called collaborative page makers. And so I'll talk 277 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: about change maker fundamentals that like self awareness, the ability 278 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: to have a way of checking in with yourself. How 279 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: am I feeling, what am I carrying, what do I need? 280 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: Who am I connected to? What do those connections look 281 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: like right now? Like asking those questions of yourself on 282 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: a day to day basis and just little brief, you know, 283 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: two minute check ins here and there helps us to 284 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: have a better sense of where we're going, kind of 285 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: like how you were saying, we're realizing like the first 286 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: symptoms of a cold before we're like laid out somewhere. 287 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: And so that self awareness and then from there having 288 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: self care that really looks at specifically what do I 289 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: need and then how do I go about getting it? 290 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: And also like the other thing that I'll talk about 291 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: a squad, so our social support, what does that look like? 292 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: And I think when with any one of the characters 293 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: in the show, if they had a place where they 294 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: were regularly checking in about those things, then they would 295 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: be able to make adjustments before things got so carried away, 296 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: like in the moment when Queen Sugar burns down and 297 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: you know, Charlie is trying to figure out, how do 298 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: I set this thing back right, how do I solve 299 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: the problem? How do I get the other guys? And 300 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: she was able to stop and see how badly she 301 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: was hurting and how much she needed connection, support, rest, 302 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: and to attend to those things and then regroup and 303 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: set back about the business of getting things done. I 304 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: think it would prevent a lot of the problems that 305 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: they are seeing. And so I think it's just having 306 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: you know, a place like therapy or even if it's 307 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: like a girl's night something like that, where you're able 308 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: to to reset, and then having some regular practices of 309 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: of how you maintain it in between. Yeah. I think 310 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: it's interesting that you bring up the whole idea of 311 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: social support, because we really don't see them with like 312 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 1: friends or other people besides their family. And even with 313 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: those relationships, of course, you know, they are typically keeping 314 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: a lot of things from one another. So even though 315 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: they're not for us to support each other, they do 316 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: have their family members, but they don't typically share everything 317 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: and get support in the ways that it might be helpful. Yeah, yeah. 318 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: I think it's like a good check in question for ourselves, 319 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: like who are the people with whom I dropped all 320 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: the armor and get vulnerable? Who do I let see 321 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: it all? And I think also like who do I 322 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: accept me back from? But who if I really like 323 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: empowered in my life to consistently give me feedback? I 324 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: think it was really cool this season, like Micah even 325 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: checking in with the older guys about how to make 326 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: decisions in his relationships. Um, But I think with the 327 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: other family members, it's often people having to kind of 328 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: push to give them helpful feedback as opposed to them 329 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: just have and go to people where they're like, Okay, 330 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: this is my next move. Does this seem like I'm 331 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: in a healthy place? Does this seem like I'm in 332 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 1: touch with my values? Like I need somebody else outside 333 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: of me sometimes to look and tell me where I'm 334 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: really at. So I want us to take a step 335 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: back bafter, Michelle, because you just said something that I 336 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: don't know that I've heard before, this idea of somebody 337 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: feeling empowered to give you feedback? So what would that 338 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: look like? Like? How would you empower someone else in 339 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,120 Speaker 1: your life to give you feedback? I think it's it's 340 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: and again, I you know, I'm a big person on 341 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: boundaries and people earning the right to to get close 342 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: and see your vulnerable size. But I think when you 343 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: know that people have done that, when they've consistently given 344 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: you good feedback, it's saying like, uh, you know, for me, 345 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: for example, if I'm launching a new thing in my 346 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: business and and and trying to do something that is big, 347 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: letting some people that are close to me, no, this 348 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: is where I'm at. If you see me not doing 349 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: the things that take care of me, say so. You know, 350 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 1: if I'm missing something here about myself, please say so. 351 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: And just asking for the feedback so regularly that it's 352 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: it's it's it's just a normal part of conversation and 353 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: people don't have to wonder does Michelle want to hear 354 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: what I say? Or is it safe enough? Do she 355 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: wants that feedback? So this kind of feels like it 356 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: goes back to your earlier point about having difficult conversations, 357 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: and this feels like it could be one of those 358 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: difficult conversations, right like if you don't quite know if 359 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: somebody is okay with feedback, and that it feels like 360 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 1: it's the kind of thing that only comes with time, 361 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 1: and like you say, it proving that they can handle 362 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: that they are they can they can protect your boundaries, 363 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: that they appreciate your boundaries, that they can maintain those 364 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: boundaries and be able to create a space where you 365 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: can both probably give their feedback to one another. Yeah, 366 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: I agree. I mean I think, for example, like you 367 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: talked about it, if um, you know, if no one 368 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: knows that Aunty is typically somebody in her life who 369 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: she can go to and be transparent and good to 370 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 1: get good feedback from, and now she's high being, then 371 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: that's probably a sign of unhealth. And we could almost 372 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: say that with any one of them. Um. I think 373 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: a really poignant um moment in this season for Darla, 374 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: she's wrestling with trying to stay sober, is when the 375 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: new guy that she's dating points out to her, you know, again, 376 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: he's giving her feedback. It's not necessarily feedback that she 377 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: has invited, but that you know, he can kind of 378 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: see her drowning a little bit, and she kind of 379 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: brushes the feedback away and isn't wanting to go talk 380 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: to like her sponsor somebody that should be kind of 381 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: empowered in her life to tell her when she's at 382 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: And so I think, like you said, when when we're 383 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: when we're hiding, it's usually a signus some unhealth. There 384 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: there's nobody that we can really let in to help 385 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: us sort through things. And Dr Michelle, you also also 386 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,959 Speaker 1: mentioned this idea of like in which spaces can you 387 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: really take the mask off? In which spaces can you 388 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: really be vulnerable? And I feel like a lot of 389 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: the characters, probably most of the women characters for sure, 390 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: UM do have like different flavors of this. But I 391 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: think Charlie comes to mind in terms of like wanting 392 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: to have this certain image. Um. You know, we have 393 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: kind of seen the transition of her character. You know, 394 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: she kind of started the show and we found out 395 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: about this affair her husband has had, and you know, 396 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 1: so she feels like it feels like to me, she's 397 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: the one who has struggled a lot with UM this 398 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: image of who she she of who she wants people 399 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: to think she is, versus how she's really feeling inside. 400 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 1: And I think, like you talked about before, a lot 401 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: of us struggle with that, right, Like we want to 402 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: have this image of kind of having it together or um, 403 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: you know, kind of doing well in life, and we 404 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: don't always feel like that inside. So what are some 405 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: of the steps you can take too, Maybe either find 406 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: those people where you can be vulnerable with or doing 407 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: some of that work internally so that you can even 408 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: be honest with yourself about how you might be struggled. Yeah, 409 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: I think probably for me, a lot of the starting 410 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 1: place for this is just even being able to name. 411 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: And I think I've gotten this recently from doing some 412 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: of the Brine Brown work. Who is this avatar that 413 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 1: I'm trying to be? Like, let me give that some descriptors, 414 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: So you know, I want to be my Olivia Pope self. 415 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: I want to be my like um, Beyonce Stelf, like 416 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: really naming, I want to be smart and on top 417 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: of things all the time, and and figuring out who 418 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: this avatar is that we're trying to live into, and 419 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: really coming to some acceptance that that is not possible, 420 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: that Olivia Pope, Carrie Washington beyonest like, none of those 421 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 1: people are that all of the time, and that even 422 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: if they were, like it wouldn't be a three dimensional, 423 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: healthy person. And then I think coming to terms with 424 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: the parts of ourselves that we don't like. Like, one 425 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: thing I say a lot is that we're all our 426 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: own mix of magic and mess and have to own 427 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,479 Speaker 1: both that we can't just and often there's like different 428 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: sides of the same coin. So like when I think 429 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: about the Border Loans, like they love hard, they commit 430 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: to making change, they go all in, but they again, 431 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: they don't always reflect, they don't always make time to 432 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: be still, and they don't always take care of themselves 433 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: the way that they need to. And so I think, 434 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: in some ways, slowly but surely, Charlie has been forced 435 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: to look at the mess to get more comfortable with 436 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: different parts of her personality. But I think the tendency 437 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: to want to bury it again when things get stressful 438 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: and go back to the coping mechanisms that she's known 439 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: as like just appear strong and powerful. I think under stress, 440 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: a lot of us just go back to the coping 441 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: mechanisms that make us feel the most comfortable at least vulnerable, right, 442 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: which is typical, right, Like we go back to the 443 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: things that are familiar with us. Yeah, But again I 444 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: think that when we've learned how to move with both 445 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: the magic and the mess, as opposed to having to 446 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 1: hide or think we're only worthy ones. We get rent 447 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: of the mess. I think that's where the really cool 448 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: stuff happens. I agree. I agree. So on the previous 449 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: episode that we did UM about Nova, we talked about 450 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: like her attachment style and like these different relationships that 451 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: we she we've seen her in, and we see now 452 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: this season that um, what's his name, Calvin is back 453 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: on the scene, and so you know, for a couple 454 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: of episodes now he's kind of trickled back into her life, 455 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: and in this most recent episode we see him saying 456 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: that he is really ready to like make this serious. 457 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: He's willing to move and all of this stuff. And 458 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: it feels like when that was kind of just maybe 459 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: an idea or a possibility, Nova was on board, But 460 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 1: now that it seems like it could be really real, 461 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 1: it feels like to me, she's kind of retracting. Um 462 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: what do you think that that's about for her? Again? 463 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I almost think it's a little bit like Charlie. 464 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: Like I think Nova has an avatar of herself who 465 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: she wants to be, and it's kind of one dimensional, 466 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: and so every time she's with somebody else, there's something 467 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 1: about it that makes it really easy to reject the relationship. 468 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 1: And I think one of the good things is that 469 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: she's been forced to have some more real conversations, like 470 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: when Mica challenged her about you know, do you think 471 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: that he's ever been involved in police brutality, Like having 472 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: questions about what's real as opposed to just be intoxication 473 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: of the feelings. But it's it's gonna be really interesting 474 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: to see where this goes. I mean, I like that 475 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: they are talking more and talking more about what's real 476 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: and talking more about more of the the nuance of 477 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: their relationship. But for example, like they've they've never really 478 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: even processed the event I think was that the end 479 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: of last season when they were out together and somebody 480 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,239 Speaker 1: spit in her face, and so I think that's one 481 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: of those moments that it's like, what does our relationship 482 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: look like in the real world? Mm hmm? This house, 483 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: how does it work? And I think that's what you 484 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: figure out when the long distance person comes and lives close. 485 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: So I don't know. To me, it's it's interesting because 486 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: I think they're doing some of the work of talking, 487 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: but whether or not she can stay in all of 488 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: that realness and do kind of the day to day 489 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: conversations and compromises of being close to somebody. I think 490 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: we have yet to see if that's the case, right, Yeah, 491 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: So it kind of is to be continued. I guess 492 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 1: we'll see. So, speaking of rekindling relationships, we now see 493 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: Ralph Angel and Dorla looking as if they may resume 494 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: a relationship, but are definitely getting closer at this point. 495 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: And so I'm curious to here, Um, and I know 496 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: you did a video and this recently, your thoughts about 497 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 1: what it looks like, you know, with them kind of 498 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: making it looks looking like they're going to be resuming 499 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,199 Speaker 1: a relationship. Yeah, so this one, I think I have 500 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: mixed feelings about to that that cliffhanger that we had 501 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 1: where you know, she just got done talking about the 502 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: really traumatic experiences of sexual assault that she had and 503 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 1: her being kind of so wide open and vulnerable and 504 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: and also just talking about what it was like to relapse. 505 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 1: And so then in that moment for it to look 506 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,959 Speaker 1: like they're gonna jump back into being involved together and 507 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: also do that without communicating with the other people that 508 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: they started relationships with, that to me look like a disaster, 509 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 1: and then making that to me look like, Okay, we 510 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: need to pause and have conversations and again like checking 511 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: with ourselves, what do we really want, what are we 512 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: really feeling, what do we really need? But you know, 513 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: we have this most recent episode and it looks like 514 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: again at least at the moment, that they're slowing down 515 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: and having more of these conversations um and at least 516 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 1: Ralph Angel talked to the person that he was with 517 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,120 Speaker 1: and admitted and he just really wasn't in a place 518 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: to be in a relationship with her and what his 519 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: feelings really were. So all of that to me looks 520 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: like health. You know, I would be interested in, you know, 521 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: gonna she's gonna reconnect with her sponsor, she going to 522 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 1: talk about that. Is he going to be able to 523 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: really respect her process of recovery because I know in 524 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: the past she would be trying to do things towards 525 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: her health and he would be kind of dismissive of it. 526 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: So I guess my hope would be for them that 527 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:17,439 Speaker 1: they continue to kind of not rush in, but have 528 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 1: the conversations to figure out how do we make this 529 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: work in real life? And what is your concern about 530 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: the rushing, Like what are you afraid would happen if 531 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: they rushed. I think the thing is that they both 532 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 1: have Obviously, they have attraction and they have chemistry, and 533 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: I think those things are great, and they have um 534 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 1: a child together and so that bonds him in a 535 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: lot of ways. But I also think there's kind of 536 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: the fundamental things that we need within ourselves to be 537 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: healthy and then within a relationship. And so I think 538 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,959 Speaker 1: for Darla feeling like she's back on our feet in 539 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: recovery and that she's being able to talk with other 540 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: people and not just kind of with the people that 541 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: currently know what's going on with her, that she's just 542 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: being able to kind of cope and bee a whole 543 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: and then come to the relationship as a whole person. 544 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: I think, you know, even with um Ralph Angel, my 545 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: main concern would be he's gone back and forth in 546 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: terms of with her about his ability to really respect 547 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: her as a whole, strong, dynamic person and sometimes just 548 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: really being demeaning and dismissive to her because of her 549 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: addiction history. And so I think that his other relationship 550 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: was really calling him to grow and do hard work 551 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: and to be with somebody who wasn't maybe as dependent 552 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: on him and so, you know, I don't I don't 553 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: think any of these things mean that they can't or 554 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: I actually think that there's a lot of great things 555 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: about their relationship. But I think if they're not talking 556 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: kind of like we've been talking about in all these 557 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: different areas and having the hard conversations that they're having now, 558 00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: it'll be easy to just kind of fall back into 559 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: bad patterns. Right. I agree with you. I think my 560 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: concern in watching them UM is that, you know, I 561 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: think that there is a way that Ralph Angel can 562 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: be there to support Dorla in her recovery UM and 563 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: you know, continuing to co parent without them necessarily having 564 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: to be together. And it it felt like the intensity 565 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: of everything that had happened, you know, with her um 566 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: realizing and then sharing the sexual assault, like it just 567 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: feels like there was a lot of emotion going on, 568 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: and so I just wonder, I I agree with you that, 569 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: you know, can we slow this down and look look 570 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: at everything that was happening as opposed to kind of 571 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: feeling overwhelmed by this emotion and that then making you think, Okay, 572 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: this means we have to be back together. Right? Yeah, 573 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: I remember a long time ago, somebody was telling me 574 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: that not everybody that you have really great chemistry with 575 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: can you build a life with. And I think that's 576 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: what they have to figure out, is what went wrong 577 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: before and have we changed enough UM and her whole 578 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: enough individually to to build a life that works together. 579 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: I think my big hope too, I know that Blue 580 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: doesn't know now, but my hope would be that UM 581 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: that I think the work that they've been forced to 582 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: do with the co parenting has been great and so UM, 583 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: I think my hope for him to be that they 584 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: would be really clear before they decided to be back together, 585 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: so that he's not really one of our roller coaster 586 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: ride with them. Mm hmmm, yeah, because it feels like 587 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: UM and I think they had a conversation about you know, 588 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: was Blue even going to be told that like mom 589 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: was struggling again, because I think at this point we 590 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: haven't even seen him like talk to mom in a 591 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: couple of days. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I think 592 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: she was like, if she's not enough place yet where 593 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: she's feeling like she can be with her son, then 594 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: it's it's hard to imagine that she's in a place 595 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: to begin or antech relation chick mm hmmmmmmm, good point. 596 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: You know again, it just worked internal work to do 597 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: to just see what's possible. Yeah. Yeah. So something that 598 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: I have been pleased to see um this season is 599 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: it feels like um Vy has been doing a better 600 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: job at protecting her boundaries this season. Um So one, 601 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: it felt like she did a really good job of saying, 602 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: you know this, this thing with Nova was incredibly hurtful. 603 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: You've dug up all this stuff from my past and 604 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: I just don't feel like I can move past this 605 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: right now, so I need you out of my life. 606 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: Um And also, once all of this came out and 607 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: she felt like she was in, you know, a bit 608 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: of a weird space in terms of her relationship, she 609 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: asked Hollywood for some space. So it feels like she 610 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: has been doing a good job I think this season 611 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: of kind of recognizing what she needed in the moment 612 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: and asking for that. I agree, And I think the 613 00:32:54,320 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: storyline with her has been really powerful and it's interesting 614 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: because I think she's had to I mean again, nobody 615 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: would ask for their trauma to show back up on 616 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: their doorstep the way that it literally did with her. 617 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: But I think it's shown her where her limitations are 618 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: in big ways, and and it's forced her to say 619 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: and this is what I can do, and this is 620 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: what I can't do. But I think it's amazing, like 621 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: even as she's been doing that work, she's doing a 622 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,959 Speaker 1: great job of honoring her boundaries but also growing and 623 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: stretching UM. I thought that the fact that she was 624 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: able to be there for Darla, who's somebody else who 625 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: she really hasn't had a lot to do, it was 626 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: a really powerful moment in the season. Yeah, I agree, 627 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, because she and Darla have not 628 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: had the closest relationship, right, Um, So for for UM 629 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: to be able to see her in the park and 630 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: cliently and clearly tale something was off, and then to 631 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: be able to support her in the way that she did, 632 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: I thought was incredibly powerful. Yeah. And I think that 633 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: one of the things with boundaries is that they often 634 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: require checking in, and especially I think in the aftermath 635 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: of trauma, it's like, what boundary do I need right 636 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: in this moment to feel safe? And then as I 637 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: keep moving, how do I adjust that? And so I 638 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: think it was a great thing how she asked Hollywood 639 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,399 Speaker 1: for space, and it was great that he was able 640 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 1: to respect and honor that and not take it too 641 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: personally and just be a great um partner and healing 642 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: for somebody who's experiencing trauma. But then you see her 643 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: gradually be able to engage with him more. And even 644 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: while she's not even talking to uh Nova, she's still 645 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: you see her talk, you know, praying for Nova. And 646 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,959 Speaker 1: so there's these ways in which the boundaries aren't these big, 647 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: big walls that don't change, but that she's she's still 648 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,399 Speaker 1: doing the work and and checking in with herself about 649 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: what she needs. Yes, I thought that that was like 650 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: a good way of modeling. I was also really really impressed, 651 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: and you know, it just feels like the writers took 652 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: really good care of how they handled the whole situation 653 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: with Darla realizing that she had been sexually assaulted, because 654 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: I think what can happen unfortunately sometimes is uh, you know, 655 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: somebody will share their story and then there's all these 656 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: questions asked and like well what were you thinking? And 657 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: you know, that kind of thing, And it really felt 658 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: like ye did a good job of holding space for 659 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: that and really helping Dolts to recognize like, no, there 660 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: was no way you could have consensed to this, Yeah, 661 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: And I think especially sometimes in the black community, the 662 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: ways in which we bury trauma or question it, it 663 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 1: just complicates the healing. And so the fact that not 664 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 1: only on VI but also Ralph Angel were able to 665 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: just listen and hold space and um offer just humanity 666 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: and compassion, it was amazing, Yeah, because that was definitely 667 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: a place where it could have gotten worse fast, right right, 668 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: exactly exactly. So what other predictions do you have for 669 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 1: the season dot Michelle, what do you think we are 670 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,359 Speaker 1: going to see? I think we have two episodes left 671 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: for this eithen Um. What do you think we're going 672 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: to see as the season wraps up? Well, And I 673 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 1: think one of the things I'm kind of excited to 674 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: see what it looks like, although I have no idea 675 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:18,919 Speaker 1: what that will be, is what is going to grow 676 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: out of Hollywood's idea about creating this safe space for men. 677 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,479 Speaker 1: I think the work that he's been doing is really 678 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: cool and just the way that you know, I think 679 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 1: in a healthy relationship, you're able to be vulnerable and 680 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,800 Speaker 1: then you guys each support each other towards your goals 681 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: and dreams, and so as he's kind of had his 682 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: AHA moments, about men not having space to process their thoughts, feelings, traumas, 683 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: et cetera, and now kind of wanting to create this space. 684 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,919 Speaker 1: I'm really curious to see what that's gonna look like. 685 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: I also think that the borderlines the siblings, especially when 686 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: they are on the same page, they are forced to 687 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: be reckoned with and so seeing how Nova and Charlie 688 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: are potentially now working together to deal with some of 689 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: the difficulties that are happening, I'm interested to see what 690 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: they're able to accomplish too. Yes, because it does feel like, 691 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 1: you know, they had that one conversation where they were 692 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,720 Speaker 1: very vulnerable with one another, and it seems like that 693 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 1: really kind of set them back on the path to 694 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 1: healing with one another. But it feels like there is 695 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: so much to unpack between Charlie and Nova. I hope 696 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: that we see them continuing to do that work before 697 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: one another, um like having those difficult conversations as opposed 698 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: to like, Okay, we had this one great moment and 699 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 1: so now we're just gonna like forget that all of 700 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 1: this other stuff is still happening, because I think then 701 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: we are just waiting for the next blow up until 702 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,879 Speaker 1: there's like this huge separation between them again, right, Yeah, 703 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: And I think that that's a big part of this 704 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: the book, which you know again that's like kind of 705 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: how everything started this season, everything out of it, every 706 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: thing being out in this one big thing that nobody 707 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: can digest or process is going to be too much 708 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: for any family, any relationship really. But I mean it 709 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,359 Speaker 1: revealed how much trauma and issues they have that they 710 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,879 Speaker 1: haven't really talked about and that they haven't really been 711 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 1: dealing with. And so I think the thing going forward 712 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: now is how do they continue these conversations. And there's 713 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: like these little hints of of reconciliation happening in different places, 714 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: like between Vayan Darla, between Charlie and Nova. It will 715 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: be interesting to see what happens between Nova and aunt 716 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,839 Speaker 1: by Um. But I think, kind of like we've talked 717 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: about in all of these relationships, one of the big 718 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 1: questions is do they continue to do this work of 719 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: communicating with each other and being self aware within themselves? 720 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 1: M Because I I forgot I mean, we touched on 721 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 1: this a little bit, but all of the drama happened 722 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 1: with Nova's book and then we have the fire, right, 723 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,839 Speaker 1: and so then attention is kind of diverted from all 724 00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: the drama that has happened with this book, and now 725 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: we're working on like saving the meal and what's gonna 726 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: happen and all of that stuff. So I think that 727 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,319 Speaker 1: that happens, you know, in our lives beyond just Queen Sugar, right, 728 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: Like something will happen and then you know, something else happens, 729 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,720 Speaker 1: and so we don't actually do the work of healing 730 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: from the first thing, but now we're kind of problem 731 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: solving on the second thing. So it really is important 732 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 1: to get back to that first thing because that work 733 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,760 Speaker 1: is not done. Yeah, yeah, And I think that's the 734 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:25,719 Speaker 1: the struggle was that often we're waiting for that right 735 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:30,479 Speaker 1: time to have the conversation and you know, we can't 736 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,400 Speaker 1: wait forever um. But also we don't just want to 737 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: jump in the middle of it, you know, in ways 738 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: that overwhelmed people. And so yeah, it's it's it's hard 739 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 1: because life keeps happening and exactly and it always will 740 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:47,399 Speaker 1: of course. So did this Dr Michelle bring up any 741 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,439 Speaker 1: resources for you? So some of the themes that we've 742 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 1: talked about, are there any particular books or other resources 743 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 1: that you find yourself recommending to clients that maybe kind 744 00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 1: of tied into some of the things we've talked about today. Yeah, 745 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,280 Speaker 1: so some of the ones that I'm really loving, especially 746 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,799 Speaker 1: at the moment. I'm a big Alex l fan. And 747 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: she just released a new journal, and I think that 748 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 1: journaling is a way to grow that self awareness and 749 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: to keep looking inside and saying, Okay, what's there? What 750 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: do I need to talk to other people about? So 751 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: she has one called Today I affirm that she just 752 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: came out with it. I think is great. And then 753 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: while I was in there those books are looking for that, 754 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,520 Speaker 1: when I actually found another one called Notes to Self 755 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 1: by Lisa Curry, and it's really cute because it's kind 756 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,720 Speaker 1: of graphic and and uh it has drawings and different 757 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,800 Speaker 1: things in ways to kind of just on a really 758 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: quick basis check in with yourself. The other thing that 759 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 1: I would recommend is the Burnet Brown books. I just 760 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 1: think that she has in her research done a really 761 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 1: great job of practicals of helping us figure out how 762 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 1: do we cultivate vulnerability, how do we deal with our imperfections, 763 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,439 Speaker 1: and if we're going to be people trying to really 764 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,319 Speaker 1: live big and make changes, how do we do that 765 00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 1: in a way that's healthy and sustainable, and of course 766 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: us we are big fans of Burnet Brown's work here 767 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,359 Speaker 1: on the podcast. It feels like every two or three 768 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: episode somebody else who is recommending one of her books, 769 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: so they, of course all are already in our book 770 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 1: recommendation section. So where can people find you, Dr Michelle? 771 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: Where can they find out more information about your work? 772 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 1: As well as any social media handles that you want 773 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 1: to share, Dr Michelle on both Facebook and Instagram. And 774 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: then my website is Change Makers Counseling dot com perfect 775 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: and of course we will include all of that in 776 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,200 Speaker 1: the show notes for everybody who wants to find that later. Well, 777 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 1: thank you so much, Dr Michelle. I really appreciate you 778 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,800 Speaker 1: spending some time with us to share this information. No problem, 779 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: thank you. I'm so grateful that Dr Michelle was able 780 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,760 Speaker 1: to join us this week to dig into Queen Sugar 781 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 1: to get more information about her and her practice and 782 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,799 Speaker 1: the resources she shared. Be sure to visit the show 783 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 1: notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Session 784 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: one two, and please make sure to share this episode 785 00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: with the other Queen Sugar fans in your circle and 786 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,239 Speaker 1: share your takeaways with us either on Twitter or in 787 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 1: your I G stories using the hashtag tv G in Session. 788 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: I also have a few very important announcements for you 789 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 1: this week, So for all of my Atlanta listeners, I'll 790 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 1: be in conversation with Dr Key Hallman, the incredible founder 791 00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:25,040 Speaker 1: of the Village Market a t L on Sunday, September 792 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 1: twenty two at five pm, and we'll be chatting about 793 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 1: prioritizing our mental health as black women business owners and 794 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 1: how taking care of ourselves helps us to thrive in 795 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: life and in business. So I love for you to 796 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,160 Speaker 1: join us for this conversation. The link to grab your 797 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,400 Speaker 1: tickets is Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Dr 798 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,839 Speaker 1: Key and it will be included in the show notes 799 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 1: so that you can find us easily. I was also 800 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:55,320 Speaker 1: recently interviewed on the Brave Not Perfect podcast, all about 801 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: having the courage to take up space and why it's 802 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,880 Speaker 1: so important that we not be afraid to make mistakes. 803 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,040 Speaker 1: The link to that episode is also in the show notes, 804 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,439 Speaker 1: so please check it out and don't forget to join 805 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,360 Speaker 1: me this weekend to watch the Black Girls Rock Awards 806 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: show airing on BET at eight p m Seventh Central. 807 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,719 Speaker 1: I'll be live tweeting over at Hello, Dr Joy, so 808 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,320 Speaker 1: join me to chat all about the looks and moments 809 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,720 Speaker 1: that are sure to keep us talking. And don't forget 810 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,360 Speaker 1: to join me this weekend Sunday, September eight to watch 811 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 1: the Black Girls Rock Award Show airing on BT at 812 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:34,080 Speaker 1: eight p m. Seven Central. I'll be live tweeting over 813 00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,959 Speaker 1: at hello, Dr Joy, so join me to chat about 814 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,319 Speaker 1: all of the looks and moments that are sure to 815 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,040 Speaker 1: keep us talking. Remember that if you're searching for a 816 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,920 Speaker 1: therapist in your area, be sure to check out our 817 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:50,759 Speaker 1: therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. 818 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,400 Speaker 1: And if you want to continue digging into this topic 819 00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,400 Speaker 1: and meet some other sisters in your area, come on 820 00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 1: over and join us in the Yellow Couch Collective where 821 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,359 Speaker 1: we take a deeper I've into the topics from the 822 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: podcast and just about everything else. You can join us 823 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash y c C. 824 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,239 Speaker 1: Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. 825 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,359 Speaker 1: I look forward to continue in this conversation with you 826 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,959 Speaker 1: all real soon. Take it care