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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, a production

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Happy Friday. Welcome to our Friday

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Speaker 1: casual behind the scenes. I'm Tracy P. Wilson, Molly Excited.

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Speaker 1: It's Friday, Yeah, it is. It is Friday in uh

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Speaker 1: in the day that this is episode that this episode

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Speaker 1: is coming out. We're in a little unusual situation in

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Speaker 1: this particular Friday behind the scenes. Um, which is that

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Speaker 1: the thing that we're going to talk about in the

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Speaker 1: second half of this week's behind the scene as at

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Speaker 1: this moment is a total mystery because we haven't recorded

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Speaker 1: it yet or figured out what it's going to be about. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we will, um, so in in five minutes or so,

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Speaker 1: you will know more than we know currently about at

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Speaker 1: the moment we're recording this. Holly, Um, did you ever

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Speaker 1: take home ec You know? I did not? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: know because you told me and then we saved this

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Speaker 1: conversation for now. So I'm about to learn along with

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Speaker 1: you all listeners. Okay, So, UM, I grew up in

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Speaker 1: a very sewing family and my mom was an assertive woman. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I had watched my two older sisters. My my

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Speaker 1: siblings are older than me by a significant amount. They're

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Speaker 1: all clumped together, and then I'm like the second marriage baby.

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Speaker 1: And so I had watched my older sisters take homemec,

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Speaker 1: which often resulted in my mother marching down to the

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Speaker 1: school to yell at the teachers about the stupid things

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Speaker 1: they were teaching her children, how they wasted fabric, how

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Speaker 1: they didn't know how to bake bread, et cetera. And

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Speaker 1: so when it came time for me in junior high

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Speaker 1: to decide whether or not I wanted to take homec

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Speaker 1: as an elective, there was a brief but very clear

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Speaker 1: conversation with my father of please don't put the family

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Speaker 1: through this again. I kind of love this story well,

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Speaker 1: And I have to say like for me, because I

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Speaker 1: started sewing when I was three, So like, by the

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Speaker 1: time I was like five and six, I was like

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Speaker 1: begging neighbors for their like fashion magazines and trying to

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Speaker 1: make copies of dresses for dolls out of them. So like,

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Speaker 1: by the time I got to the age where I

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Speaker 1: would have taken home Mack, I wasn't really cooking because

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Speaker 1: my mom didn't like other people in her kitchen messing

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Speaker 1: it up. But I was already sewing way past what

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Speaker 1: they were going to teach me, and they're like, make

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Speaker 1: a pillow that looks like a computer, Like that was

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Speaker 1: not gonna do anyway. So I kind of like even

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Speaker 1: potential skirmish as aside. If I actually looked at the coursework,

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Speaker 1: I was like, this is not interesting to me anyway. Um,

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Speaker 1: but yes, it was a please save us all the

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Speaker 1: trouble of having to um talk down your mother and

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Speaker 1: potentially school administrators from a fight. Sure. Sure. I also

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Speaker 1: did not take HOLMEC because I also grew up a

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Speaker 1: in a sewing household. Um, Like, my mom had taught

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Speaker 1: me to sow from the time that I was small,

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Speaker 1: and I also had spent the summers we grew all

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Speaker 1: of our vegetables, and so I had also spent summers

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Speaker 1: helping can and freeze and otherwise prepare food that we

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Speaker 1: were preserving for the rest of the year. Like that

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Speaker 1: had been just part of my upbringing. And I was

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Speaker 1: in four H and four H I don't know about now,

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Speaker 1: but four H when you're a girl in the nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 1: when you're a girl is a lot of home economics

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Speaker 1: focus stuff. Like I had a whole lot of four

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Speaker 1: H stuff that was about sewing and was about cooking, UM,

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Speaker 1: and I took a lot of courses that were part

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Speaker 1: of the whole fourage experience through the Agricultural Extension Service

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Speaker 1: that we talked about in the episode. We would go

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Speaker 1: on to this place, UM that had a more formal name,

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Speaker 1: but we called it the AGG Building, and it was

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Speaker 1: the building where like all the extension classes and things

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Speaker 1: were taught and so like, I had had a lot

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Speaker 1: of both casual home instruction and more formal instruction that

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Speaker 1: was related to what would be taught in UM. In

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Speaker 1: hollmech class homec had nothing for you. Yeah, so I

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Speaker 1: took shop. Shop also had nothing for me, UM, because

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Speaker 1: the school was so afraid that we were going to

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Speaker 1: hurt ourselves that we weren't allowed to use any of

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Speaker 1: the power tools. Oh no, yeah. It was not just

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Speaker 1: not a good experience. UM. I did want to share

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Speaker 1: something with listeners that I already shared with you, Holly.

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Speaker 1: As I was researching this episode, which is the September

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Speaker 1: I wrote nineteen that's not correct, Um. It was a

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Speaker 1: ninety nine New York Times article titled expert adopts a baby, UM,

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Speaker 1: and the first sentence, I mean, I went on a

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Speaker 1: journey with this article, which is three paragraphs long. The

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Speaker 1: first sentence of it says Dr Louise Stanley, chief of

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Speaker 1: the Bureau of Homeme Economics of the Department of Agriculture,

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Speaker 1: has a did a baby girl, following the example set

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Speaker 1: by her friend and housemate Mrs Mabel Walker will A

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Speaker 1: Brant a few years ago. So that sentence caught my

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Speaker 1: attention because sometimes in things like news articles and obituaries

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that, when someone is described as a

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Speaker 1: friend and housemate, sometimes that is code that they were

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Speaker 1: really a couple. Uh. And so that that I was like,

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Speaker 1: sometimes it's not code, but sometimes it is. And so

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Speaker 1: like that kind of caught my eye. Um. And then

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Speaker 1: it goes goes on about their house being on street

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Speaker 1: and Annabelle Matthews also living there, with the three women

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Speaker 1: being nicknamed the brain Trust. Um, and how when when

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Speaker 1: Mrs Mabel Walker Willebrant moved to the house she had

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Speaker 1: just purchased in Georgetown, they wanted to still have a

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Speaker 1: child in the house. Um. And then the next the

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Speaker 1: last sentence of it was Nancy comes from the University

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Speaker 1: of Iowa, where she had previously been a practice baby

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Speaker 1: from earliest infancy. And then I was like, hold up,

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Speaker 1: what's a practice baby? I went on just the whole

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Speaker 1: voyage with this one thing, um, and I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: the fact that this article uses the word practice baby

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Speaker 1: in this content, like it's clear that that's a common

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Speaker 1: enough term that everyone would have known what that meant. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, I'm gonna have to look into this,

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Speaker 1: and I'm currently looking into that. You that we may

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Speaker 1: be about to seamlessly transition into a behind the scenes

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Speaker 1: Friday about practice babies. I'll be You'll be surprised or not.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, we'll see. I'm scared of the practice

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Speaker 1: baby episode, yeah, because I don't know it will reveal

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Speaker 1: what a monster I am, even more than already because

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Speaker 1: I'm like, please don't give me a practice baby. Yes,

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Speaker 1: my happy off to parents, but that is not a

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Speaker 1: space I should be. Yeah, just because it's a strange

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Speaker 1: way that their tie our show works in regards to time,

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Speaker 1: Sometimes people listening to this episode they will already know

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Speaker 1: what Wednesday's episode was about, So this is not be

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Speaker 1: a rising anymore. But uh, you're just seeing it unfold

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Speaker 1: as it all happens. So the first half of us

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes episode was recorded an entire week ago,

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Speaker 1: and we talked about not knowing for sure whether an

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Speaker 1: episode about practice babies what's gonna happen? Obviously it did. Uh,

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Speaker 1: everyone got to go on that journey with us. Something

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Speaker 1: I didn't get into in the episode, but that I

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Speaker 1: found when doing research is that from time to time

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Speaker 1: these would become sort of like public interest news stories

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Speaker 1: where the local paper would talk about the new practice

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Speaker 1: baby at the at the whole mech program, they tended

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Speaker 1: a disproportionate amount of time to happen when the baby

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Speaker 1: was a boy, and some of the ways that they

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Speaker 1: talk about it is gross, like there is just a

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Speaker 1: weirdly titilating, sly under thread of what a lucky boy

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Speaker 1: with all of these young attractive college girl mothers. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And I did not enjoy reading that. Why did not?

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Speaker 1: Which is why did not have any of it to

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Speaker 1: be read from in the episode. I mean that still

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Speaker 1: happens all the time. Like have you ever been at

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Speaker 1: like a big group gathering or like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: a shower or something. I don't go to many showers

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Speaker 1: because I'm kind of a monster. But um, where there's

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Speaker 1: like a predominantly women group and someone has a small

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Speaker 1: child that is a boy and they do the same

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Speaker 1: language happens about Oh, he's going to be a ladies

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Speaker 1: man and he loves It's like, what are you talking about,

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Speaker 1: He's a kid, he's a baby. Yeah. And I've definitely

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Speaker 1: had friends who have talked about the way other people

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Speaker 1: talked to and about their babies, um, and are like, no,

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Speaker 1: he is not flirting with you. He is a babe.

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Speaker 1: As a child who was fascinated by strangers. Yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: Another thing that we did not really get into is

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Speaker 1: that like, I absolutely understand how how people can find

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Speaker 1: the whole idea of this as just innately horrifying um

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Speaker 1: and and have concerns about whether being cared for by

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Speaker 1: so many different people who were students was harmful. Um.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of the research that was being done

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Speaker 1: into uh, into mothering and parenting at the time, like

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Speaker 1: a lot of it there were there were valid results

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Speaker 1: that still hold up today. But a lot of this

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Speaker 1: is also time when research was being done that was

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Speaker 1: used to suggest that basically anybody who was not neurotypical

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Speaker 1: in some way it was because their mother had done

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Speaker 1: it wrong. Um. Like this was the same window of

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Speaker 1: time when there was a lot of discussion that like

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Speaker 1: autism was caused by bad mothering, and there's just so

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Speaker 1: much to unpack with that kind of sentiment um like

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Speaker 1: it's it's ablest for one thing, it's ablest and its

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Speaker 1: sexist at the same time. But that kind of mindset

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Speaker 1: was informing all of this concern And so, yeah, the

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Speaker 1: things that I was the most horrified and all of

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Speaker 1: this was the part where the part where children were

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Speaker 1: in deprived circumstances where they had anemia and Ricketts and

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Speaker 1: we're not being cared for. That to me was a

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Speaker 1: lot more horrifying than the idea of being cared for

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Speaker 1: by sixteen women in sequence over a period of weeks, right,

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Speaker 1: with like supervision involved. Yeah. Yeah, so there is some

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Speaker 1: continuity to it, which we didn't really talk about a

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Speaker 1: whole lot, right, Like they're they're non continuous people, but

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Speaker 1: presumably if there is one proctor, supervisor, whatever involved in

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Speaker 1: the process, there is a degree of consistency. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And and I we didn't really get to this this

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Speaker 1: part of it either, but in some of the things

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Speaker 1: that I read that were like manuals about starting practice

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Speaker 1: baby programs or or discussions of how the programs worked,

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Speaker 1: Like the person who was considered to be ultimately responsible

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Speaker 1: for the care and well being and safety of the

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Speaker 1: baby was not a student. It was the faculty advisor

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Speaker 1: that was part of this whole process UM. And then

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Speaker 1: it also made me think about UM all of the

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Speaker 1: ways that people learn by practicing on actual living human

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Speaker 1: beings like I used to do when I lived in Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: My primary care doctor was at a teaching facility that

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Speaker 1: was part of Emery's UM residency program for UH for

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Speaker 1: primary care doctors. So I had so many different normal

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Speaker 1: but also uncomfortable and invasive UH exams, Like I had

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Speaker 1: a number of path exams by people who were students,

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Speaker 1: in one case by a student who I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: had ever held a speculum UH. And like that's it's

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Speaker 1: sort of part of how learning works. And I guess

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Speaker 1: the difference between that and and practice babies was like

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Speaker 1: I consented to being examined by students and and babies

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Speaker 1: our babies and cannot give consent and that whole process.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, like I I absolutely understand how how how

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Speaker 1: many feelings this brings up with people. Oh yeah, but

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Speaker 1: the things I was angriest about where the things that

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Speaker 1: were about babies being forcibly uh separated from their parents

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Speaker 1: because their parents weren't married and UH and and institutions

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Speaker 1: where they were not getting sufficient care and love. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it puts me in mind a little bit. And again

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Speaker 1: I am not a parent nor an expert in child rearing.

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Speaker 1: But there was a while back when we were still UH.

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Speaker 1: You and I were both working at How Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: in an editorial capacity for the articles that were going

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Speaker 1: on the website, and I was co editing UM a

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Speaker 1: bunch of articles that were about parenting styles, and there

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Speaker 1: was one that really stood out to me because this

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Speaker 1: was kind of at the time when a bunch of

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Speaker 1: different parenting styles were commonly being discussed argued over, etcetera

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Speaker 1: in the news, like whether being a tiger mom or

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Speaker 1: being an attachment parent or blah blah blah, any of

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Speaker 1: those various sort of parenting trends were worthwhile or not.

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Speaker 1: And there was one particular UM piece of research that

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Speaker 1: had come up in an article I was co editing

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Speaker 1: where their summation was kind of like, really, as long

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Speaker 1: as the parent loves the kid, that's kind of the

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Speaker 1: determinant of success. UM. And so if a child is

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Speaker 1: getting love, They're probably going to be okay, even though

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Speaker 1: there may be variations and some may respond to different

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Speaker 1: situations better than others, but like, oh, for all, everybody

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Speaker 1: has some neuroses, and like, right, it was kind of

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Speaker 1: like the best you can hope for is that a

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Speaker 1: kid is loved and cared for. And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's a very simplified way to put it, but it

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Speaker 1: it makes all the sense in the world death. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So anyway, that's some complicated social history. Somebody I was

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Speaker 1: talking about this on on Twitter and how some of

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Speaker 1: the very horrified articles that I had read that were

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Speaker 1: written within the last few years and we're for you know,

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Speaker 1: just a general audience. UM had had taken a horrified

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Speaker 1: and kind of angry tone about it from the start,

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Speaker 1: and some of them were like and no one ever

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Speaker 1: researched it, mean, how many of these children came out

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Speaker 1: and like that's not actually true. Um. We talked about

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Speaker 1: some of the research that was done and I was

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Speaker 1: I was tweeting about that, and somebody asked me, like,

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Speaker 1: were these kids okay, like and I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's it really seems like most of them were not harmed.

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Speaker 1: And probably it was a better situation, and then they

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Speaker 1: had been in UM. And it reminds me of the

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Speaker 1: incubator babies, which which I mentioned at the top, because

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Speaker 1: people would be horrified today if we were like, we're

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Speaker 1: going to have these babies and incubators at a carnival

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Speaker 1: side show, but at the time that probably saved their lives.

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Speaker 1: Here is my greatest disappointment after doing this episode. Oh okay,

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Speaker 1: no one has started a metal band with the name Mothercraft.

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Speaker 1: That's all I could think of the whole time. That

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Speaker 1: feels like a good place to end the discussion. Uh,

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Speaker 1: send us notes, send us emails. Like we said in

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Speaker 1: the in the episode UM itself, we are planning a

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Speaker 1: Q and a episode UM. And that's only going to

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Speaker 1: work out if we get good questions to talk about

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Speaker 1: so um. His three podcast at i heart radio dot com.

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Speaker 1: Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of

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Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,

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Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.