WEBVTT - Part One: Jack Welch Is Why You Got Laid Off 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:07.080 It's a podcast. Shit, it's behind the Bastards a podcast 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:10.160 that I was I was trying, like in the thirty 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:12.319 seconds before we started to think of like a good 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:15.640 funny introduction, like you know, shouting Hitler atonally or. 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:19.120 You know, I like, it's a podcast. 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:20.599 That's all I came up with. 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:21.119 That's fine. 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:24.320 I considered Sophie doing like doing like a War of 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:26.599 the World style intro where I pretend to be a 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:30.240 newscaster letting everyone know that like a new virus has 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.280 been found, has reached the coasts of the United States 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.960 and is spreading rapidly through populated areas. But we already 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:40.680 we all did that, so it's not really funny. So 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:42.599 I don't know. I don't know, Sophie, I don't know. 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:47.960 I'm I'm you know, it's a podcast. I failed. I failed, 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:50.280 But you know who's not a failure. 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:52.120 Sophie, Oh yeah, I do. 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:57.600 The guests that we have for this spectacular podcast episode today, 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:04.920 the glorious Michael Swam and the inimitable Abraham Epperson. 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:09.560 I'm glorious. But you could imitate it if you try to. 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:13.039 Yeah, you could imitate. You could imitate Michael, but but. 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:16.440 Not a but and I have I have no discernment 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:19.720 of quality, but you can't replicate it. 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.000 That's right, that's right, that's right. 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:23.600 No one said it's good. 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:24.200 It's just hard. 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:26.679 Yeah, it's just like whoa, that's hard to do. 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:27.240 I love this. 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:29.720 I love that we we had a pitch meeting about 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:32.400 my compliments to turn them into insults. That was nice. 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:35.880 It's really making me nostalgic for the old days. A cracked. 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:38.600 And by the way, by doing a War of the worlds, 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:41.240 I totally thought you meant get sick and die like 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:45.120 just keel over. Robert was the best of us all, 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:47.440 but he wouldn't handle as simple Covid. 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:55.200 No, I I'm you know, uh covid who the CDC 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:58.440 says it's over, So we're good. Yeah, I'm not even 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:03.400 worried about it anymore. Michael abe as I. As I 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:05.720 stated a little earlier, we all used to work together 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:09.799 at the old place, at the shop, at the comedy 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.320 website that was based off of a comedy magazine that 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:17.359 nobody read in the nineteen sixties, but the website did. 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.680 Quite well for a time. Matt TV the website if you. 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:25.280 Will, Yeah, yeah, you guys are back on The last 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.400 time we had both of you together was talking about 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:30.799 the end of l Ron Hubbard and listening to his 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:36.320 gligorious his glorious song. Thank you for listening. And today 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:39.080 I've got you on to talk about a very special 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.080 piece of shit, one one of the rare bastards who 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:44.960 has had a major impact on the life of every 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:48.280 single person listening to this podcast. But before we get 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:51.120 into that, you guys have a project that you're working 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:52.960 on that's very exciting, and I want to I want 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.680 to start with a plug up front so that we 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.440 can get to that before people souls leave their bodies 0:02:58.440 --> 0:02:59.120 with depression. 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:01.440 And I'm supposed to remind you that you also have 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:05.119 a podcast because Danill threatened my life. 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.240 Oh yeah, all right, well let's dispense with that quickly. 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:11.200 I do a podcast with Adam Ganzer where we talk 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:13.920 about video games. It's called One Upsmanship. I love it 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:17.640 dearly and it's a weekly show. That's great. But wait, 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.960 there's more. Wow, and thank you, Robert, because ye value, 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:25.919 we're definitely here just to announce that we're clear. Since 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.919 the hybrid episode, we're totally clear, So good for us. 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:34.399 And with that new found power, we've decided to try 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:36.160 and make an indie movie. It would be our second 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:38.440 indie movie. The first one's called kill Me Now. If 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:39.800 you want to see if we suck at it, you 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:41.280 could go watch kill Me Now on YouTube. 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:41.880 It's available. 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:46.960 One's entirety thank you, and it's been a long time 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.560 and we're ready for number two. If you knew us 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.360 from Cracked, or like, if you knew like After Hour's agency, 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:56.480 Crack does not compute hundreds of sketches. We were kind 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.720 of the engine behind that. And this movie is based 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:02.480 on the hilarious, poignant true story of when my dad 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.360 came out as a gay furry. It's super funny, but 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:07.080 it's also got a lot of heart. It weaves a 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.720 bunch of other stuff in there as well. And Abe, 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:10.720 do you have anything to add? 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:15.520 Yeah, url, Yeah, you can go help us out by 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:20.080 going to seed andspark dot com, slash fund, slash Papa 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.080 Dash Bear, and you can become part of the movie, 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:27.040 get stuff from the movie, watch the film early, even 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.160 go to a premiere. We're stoked about telling the story. 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:31.360 So if you can't help us get what we need 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:34.360 to make it right, Yeah, Yeah. At the lowest tier, 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:38.640 you're basically pre buying a ticket because you'll just get 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:40.440 a private link to the movie when it's ready. We 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:43.680 have other funding like going on behind the scenes, but 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.280 the crowdfunding piece, which is going wrong right now of course, 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:49.120 is super crucial. And there's cooler stuff than that to get. 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.880 Yeah, if you're doing it at the highest level, you 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:56.560 will literally be able to call yourself a producer and 0:04:56.680 --> 0:05:01.320 wear suspenders and like a nice iron shirt and do 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:05.400 mountains of cocaine while smoking a cigar. Don't forget the hat, 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:09.479 cheating on your your wife. You get a signed hat, 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.320 all sorts of good stuff do we pros. 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:14.800 We execute the adoption papers with your name on him, 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:17.599 and you become my dad. You are legally wow, wow, 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:18.679 Mike's dad. 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:22.359 You know, considering the movie is about your dad, that 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:23.919 does kind of seem like a little bit of a 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:24.719 kick in the face. 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:25.600 It's weird. 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:30.200 It's like it's a gift of the magi type situation 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:32.839 where like I was able to make a movie about you, dad, 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:34.480 but now you're no longer my dad. 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:38.280 But as you forget him, yeah, it own rights, It 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.480 comes out of your brain and disappears. But yeah, that's 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:45.040 Papa Bear. Papa Bear Bear look it up. But yeah, 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.560 let's check it out. Yeah, of horrors do you have 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:48.920 for it? Excited to be here? 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:53.400 A real a real horror. So we we should start 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.400 a little bit here by talking about capitalism. You know, 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.520 something that we're all intimately familiar with and one of 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:01.440 the most and things to understand if you want to know, 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:03.839 kind of like why the US and its friends won 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.360 the Cold War, is that for a lot of people 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:10.320 in the United States and other Western countries, capitalism seemed 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.159 like a pretty fucking good deal from the time of 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:17.480 the New Deal up through the late seventies to early eighties. Now, 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:21.520 obviously this was predicated on extraction from countries outside of 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:24.839 the United States and Western Europe, from the Global South, 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.000 whatever you want to call them, and it was also 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.880 funded by supporting the subjugation by dictatorships of people living 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.960 in those countries in order to extract resources. But within 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:38.120 the United States itself, in particular, Americans saw a forty 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.680 or so year long period where the standard of living 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:45.200 and the average amount of wealth held per person increased 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:49.560 it a pretty dramatic and extremely consistent rate. Prior to 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.159 the New Deal, corruption and abuse within capitalism were pretty 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.599 much universal and the biggest companies were the ones that 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:58.200 were generally the best at holding their workers down at gunpoint. 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:01.640 But after their Great Depression, there were new regulations introduced, 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:05.000 and this, combined with progressive social welfare policies ushered in 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:08.720 by the FDR administration, helped lead the United States towards 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:12.360 the titanic growth of the post war years. Inequality plummet. 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:15.960 It managers and workers, you know, were generally obviously paid differently, 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:18.480 but it wasn't like you see today, right, Like a 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.640 guy working the line at a factory was not getting 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:24.040 like one five hundredth of the amount of money that 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:27.000 like the CEO of the company got. They were living 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:29.560 kind of in the same vague planet, you know, when 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:32.040 it came to income, and a lot of the days 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:35.960 business gurus argued that this was necessary for healthy economic functioning. 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.440 This was actually the most efficient way for the system 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:41.920 to work. In nineteen forty three, Johnson and Johnson's CEO 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.680 authored a company credo that spoke to a lot of 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:48.040 people in big business in the United States. He argued 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:51.800 that the company's first responsibility was to its customers, its 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:54.360 second was to its employees, who he said deserved a 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:57.760 sense of security with just management and short working hours 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:02.280 and fair wages. Duty was to management, and then last 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:06.640 and least, it had a duty to its investors and shareholders. Quote, yeah, 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:09.640 that was the last. That's the CEO of Johnson and Johnson. 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:13.640 Business must make a sound profit, high taxes paid, new 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:17.040 factories built, new products launched. When these things have been done, 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:20.000 the owners and stockholders should receive a fair return. So 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:21.000 that's pretty different. 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:21.280 Right. 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.480 It feels like all things have become grotesquely extreme to 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:26.240 the point of like ruining everything. 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:27.720 You know, it takes time. 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:31.520 At the beginning, I feel like they didn't realize how 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:33.520 far they could go on, how much they could get 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:35.880 away with. It takes time to wake up and go, wait, 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.240 could we take it all? Like oh oh ghit. 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:42.200 It takes time, and I think it also takes you know, 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:44.400 part of why this state of affairs came to be. 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:47.760 It didn't like these companies didn't start treating workers well 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.120 and sharing profits with them because it was nice. They 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.240 did it because the country, like the United States, nearly 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:57.400 collapsed into like a revolution, right, Like things were that 0:08:57.520 --> 0:08:59.679 bad at the very worst of the Great Depression, the 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:01.679 govern was worried, like are we going to do a 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:06.320 Russia and that fear faded. You know, that's kind of 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:07.920 the story we're telling today. So I'm going to get 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.080 ahead of myself. But if you want to look at 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:14.000 kind of the company during what's called the Golden Age 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:16.040 of capitalism, which is this period from the end of 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:18.320 World War Two up to kind of the Reagan era, 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:22.280 the company that best embodied both the strengths of that 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:25.120 capitalist system that existed then and the kind of innovation 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:29.400 that could come from it is General Electric. Now, over 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.000 the years it was founded kind of in the late 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.920 eighteen hundreds, and in the years since its founding, its 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:37.520 engineers and scientists brought the world like half of the 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:41.000 things that we consider like crucial aspects of daily modern life. 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:45.640 They invented incandescent light bulbs, They invented the electric plant. 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.920 They shipped radios around the world and invented many of 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.679 the first radios. They crafted the first vacuum tubes, They 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.080 invented the garbage disposal. They created a wide variety of 0:09:56.120 --> 0:10:00.559 moldible and transparent plastics that became ubiquitous in house old products, 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:04.000 and also every creature living in the ocean. Obviously, you 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:07.200 know that part's not great, but on the a positive side, 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:10.679 the silicon rubber that they invented was a like made 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:13.720 space travel possible, Like you don't get human beings into 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:14.560 space without it. 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.359 All these are bangers. These are all bangs. 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:22.320 These are all bangers. They're all impressive. Yeah. So this 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:24.400 is like, for about one hundred straight years, from the 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:27.560 late eighteen hundreds to the nineteen eighties, ge was not 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:29.080 just a company that made a lot of money. It 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:32.760 was a company that regularly invented things, or at least 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:34.880 it's you know, it's workers did the scientists that it 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:37.800 paid invented things that changed life for people all around 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:44.680 the world. That was us chairs y Yeah, yeah, fucking 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:50.280 ginkin of stuff. Yeah. And their workforce was compensated, you know, 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:55.880 as you'd expect given their success. G Yeah, as many 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.280 light bulbs as you can fit in your your cheek 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.960 pouches like a squirrel. No, they were the company. They 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.760 were one of the companies that they essentially invented the 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:08.400 kind of modern concept of an employee retirement plan. They 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:11.280 gave workers profit sharing. They were the first company I 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:15.440 think to have like provide insurance for workers. They invested 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:19.040 in the ongoing and ongoing education for their workforce. They 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:22.360 had a corporate campus that featured swimming pools and spas 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:25.800 and tennis courts and football fields and free classes and 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:28.920 stuff like tap dancing that had no profit, you know, 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:31.760 making benefit for GE, but made the workers happy. They 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:34.600 kind of pioneered the shit that we now associate with 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:37.960 like the golden age of the tech industry, right like 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:42.880 that Gesy, like the twenties, Yeah, exactly. And this was 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.160 part of an understanding by the management elite of the 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:47.520 era that a happy workforce was one that would not 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.319 tear you apart and shoot your family in a dank basement. 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.000 Men like GE CEO Gerald Swape had the Czar on 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:57.800 his mind when he described the company ethos as welfare 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.480 capitalism in nineteen twenty two. This was a term that 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:04.240 like a CEO, felt proud to use, like our company 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:09.680 practices welfare capitalism. In nineteen twenty seven, company chairman Own 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.839 Young gave a speech at Harvard where he attacked businessmen 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.720 who tried to quote squeeze out of labor, its last 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:19.800 ounce of effort and last penny of compensation. Executives he 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.960 argued needed to quote think in terms of human beings. 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:25.480 Who put their lives in labor in a common enterprise 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:29.240 for mutual advantage. And there's nothing more alien to kind 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.520 of the business grules of our day than the concept 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:33.880 of mutual advantage. 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:36.120 Now they were still rich, right, Like. 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.240 Yes, a lot they had plenty of money. 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.040 Yes, they still led lives of plenty right. 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:43.800 And I should state a lot of times in one 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:45.440 of the main sources that we're going to wind up 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.680 using for this episode, this this erraor gets a romanticized. 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:50.840 Part of why it gets romanticized is that a lot 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.520 was nicer back than Like compensation of workers in the 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.960 United States was much nicer. The system itself was still 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.640 pretty soaked in blood. For example, GE ex executives may 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.560 have cared greatly for their workforce in the United States, 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:05.679 but they had no issue with the idea that GE 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.480 products would be used to murder civilians in foreign countries. 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:12.320 GE's T seven hundred helicopter engine powered the Blackhawk after 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.360 its adoption in nineteen seventy eight. They also made the 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.280 engines for basically all of the helicopters that the United 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:22.559 States used to annihilate large chunks of jungle in Vietnam. 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:24.920 They made the engines for the planes that dropped the 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:28.400 defoliates that gave everybody fucking cancer. They were one of 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.520 the top ten largest contractors used by the US government 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.360 to make nuclear weapons over the course of the Cold War. 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:36.559 You know, they're not just like making nukes, but nukes. 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:38.520 There's a bunch of parts that nukes involved, and so 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.680 GE was one of the primary suppliers of those parts. 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:44.280 At the height of the Vietnam War, they made more 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:47.920 than one point six billion dollars a year in military contracts, 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.120 making them the second highest paid defense contractor of the 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:55.440 bloodiest chapter of the Cold War. So that's all bad, right, Like, 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:59.000 it's not. I'm not trying to like whitewash this stuff here. 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.720 Different than light bulbs. I'll give you this. It's different 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.840 than light bulbs, light bulbs and death bulbs. 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:11.760 Light bulbs, rubber gaskets, the bicycle wheel bulletsuke, telicopters. 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:15.520 You're all gonna die, Michael. They did, in fact invent 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.199 the laser, by the way, that was also a GE invention. 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:23.680 Yeah, I love this. This is fantastic. You throw a dead. 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:25.240 Cat in the room and you're like, oh, they invented 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:27.240 dead cats. 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:31.240 There's something about the blindness created by overcoming trauma. Like 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:33.160 I'm sure you're gonna get into it, but it like 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:37.080 doesn't make the crimes go away. Like if the skeletons 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:40.280 in the closet were like kind of made in order 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:43.680 to build the closet, that doesn't justify anything. And that's 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.520 my standpoint. But it's like amazing to see what America 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.400 has done in order to be Like, you can't make 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:55.440 fun of General Electric. They're goddamn General Electric, you know. 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:57.680 Yeah, no, I mean, and they are. That was very 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:01.600 much like they were seen as an institution, like almost 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.600 a branch of the government. And part of it was 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:08.080 the degree to which, like so many Americans, hundreds of 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.160 thousands were employed by them, and it was like kind 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.560 of cradle to grave employment. If you've got a job 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:17.040 with GE in this period, that was your job for life. 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.640 And then when you retired they would pay you a pension, 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:24.840 you know, like a yeah, if you if you keep 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:29.520 the US military machine rich in killing machines, GE will 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:31.640 take care of you, right, Like that was the bargain, 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:34.920 you know. So I want to quote now from a 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.800 book by a guy named David Gels called The Man 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:41.040 who Broke capitalism and spoilers. The man that the book 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.920 is about is who will be talking about today. Quote. 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:46.760 An annual report from nineteen fifty three described how GE 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:50.160 worked in the balanced best interests of all. The report 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:52.800 trumpeted how much the company had paid in taxes, the 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.640 virtues of paying its suppliers well, and how critical it 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.160 was to take care of its employees. That year, GE 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:00.880 proudly stated that it spent some thirty seven percent of 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:03.960 its sales on pay and benefits for its workers, resulting 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:06.720 in the biggest payroll in the company's history, with more 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.560 people at work than ever before. Next to the statistic 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:12.280 was an illustration of a grinning factory worker walking away 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:15.280 from the assembly line holding bags of money. Only after 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:18.200 enumerting all the ways in which it was helping the government, suppliers, 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:21.119 and employees, did the company mention how much it allocated 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:24.480 for investors, the sum a modest three point nine percent 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.480 of sales. I think about how weird that is, right Like, 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.920 right now we're going through this thing where like the 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.400 head of the Federal Reserve is talking about how bad 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.640 it is that wages have kept rising and that's like 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:39.240 a problem, Like we need to discipline laborers, so they 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.680 expect less. But in nineteen fifty three, Ges being like, 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:45.400 we're giving everything that we have to our workers. Isn't 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:48.360 that dope? How much money we're paying our employees, Like 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:49.800 this is what you would brag about. 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.560 And it was so many issues. It's like vice versa. 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:56.360 Which party you'd think, like conservative traditionalists would be like, 0:16:56.440 --> 0:17:00.480 this makes more sense, Like I would say, no, it's weirder. Now. 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.360 What's weird is if you have a human enterprise and 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.320 the person who makes the most money from it has 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.280 no they didn't work there, they didn't invent it, they 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:11.760 didn't form the business, they have nothing to do with it. 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:15.399 Like that's weird. It's weird to me that that's how 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:15.840 it works. 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:16.160 Now. 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:19.679 Yeah, I can't imagine what you're thinking of when you 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:23.240 say that, working in the film and entertainment industry, Michael. 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:28.359 But so, the idea that was common at the time 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.600 among the people who ran companies like GE was that 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:35.360 corporations had a responsibility both to the United States as 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.600 a whole and to their workers. GE's head of employee 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:43.200 benefits listed quote maximalizing employment security as a prime company 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.359 goal in nineteen sixty two because the ability of workers 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:48.800 to feel secure in their future was, in his words, 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:53.119 the most productive asset the company had. Obviously, again, I 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:58.280 hope I haven't underemphasized the inequalities that in the system, 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:02.840 but those inequalities were sternalized primarily right, The inequalities with 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:07.720 an American capitalism were outside of the United States, primarily 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:12.240 right within the US there was actually, like quite certainly 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:16.040 a less unequal system than we have today. And we 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.480 can see how kind of widespread these ideas were in 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:20.639 the simple fact that from nineteen forty eight to nineteen 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.800 seventy nine, worker pay in the United States grew at 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:27.000 the same or close to the same rate as worker productivity. 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:31.600 But since nineteen seventy nine this has changed dramatically. From 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:35.520 nineteen seventy nine to twenty twenty, net productivity rose sixty 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:39.320 one point eight percent, while the hourly pay of typical 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:43.320 workers grew at about seventeen point five percent over four decades. 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:45.679 So it went from they grew at kind of the 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.679 same rate during this quoite golden age of capitalism to 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.520 worker pay grew less than a third, at less than 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.000 a third of the rate that productivity grew. Right, What 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:58.880 does that mean? I mean that means workers are getting shafted, right, Like, yeah, 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:02.080 there's no other way to look at that. Now, a 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.600 lot of different factors had to come together to change 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.479 this state of affairs, and obviously there's not one single 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:10.840 person that's solely responsible for why everything got a lot 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.520 worse within the here's his name, but there is. He 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:17.240 is the guy who He's not the guy who caused 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:19.560 all of this, but he is the guy who his 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:23.680 his career is the dividing line between the golden age 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.919 of capitalism and the era we live in now, this 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:30.560 grim age of billionaire CEOs and starving workers on food 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:35.159 stamps and like zero innovation. Effectively, like, there's a single 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.240 guy whose life is sort of the dividing line between 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.840 those two periods. He was the CEO of General Electric 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:46.399 and his name was Jack Welch. He is such a 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:48.720 bad person. You guys are really going to have a 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.880 terrible time with this episode. I'm excited for this. 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:54.320 So I've seen Yeah, I've seen this guy. 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:57.879 Yeah, he's very famous. He wrote he wound he like 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:01.119 in his retirement, wrote like twenty different five management books 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:05.000 that are all the same book, right, Like, yeah, it's 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:10.360 they're all like nonsense, uh corporate like uh uh bullshit 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:14.040 to keep in your fucking bookcase behind you while you 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:16.080 do a zoom call, so everybody thinks that you uh, 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:17.119 you know what you're. 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:22.360 Talking about exactly, and everyone wins way and all that stuff. 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:26.080 Yeah, he's he's a real great guys. 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.280 Name is Welch. I just want to before we begin, 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:30.040 you know. 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:32.800 Yeah, and he's going to Welch on a lot of bets. 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:38.120 So so the two books that I've used as sources 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.240 for much of this episode are the book that I 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.479 quoted from earlier, The Man who Broke Capitalism by David Wells, 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:47.639 and Jacksone autobiography Jack Straight from the Gut. 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:54.440 It's a horrible book. The first book, The Man who 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:57.840 Broke Capitalism, is pretty well written, and it's a pretty 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:00.760 damning indictment of Welch's career. It is written by a 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.240 guy who really believes in capitalism, and so there's one 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:06.320 of its flaws is that it definitely takes the like 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.280