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Speaker 1: It's a podcast. Shit, it's behind the Bastards a podcast

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Speaker 1: that I was I was trying, like in the thirty

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Speaker 1: seconds before we started to think of like a good

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Speaker 1: funny introduction, like you know, shouting Hitler atonally or.

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Speaker 2: You know, I like, it's a podcast.

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Speaker 1: That's all I came up with.

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Speaker 3: That's fine.

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Speaker 1: I considered Sophie doing like doing like a War of

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Speaker 1: the World style intro where I pretend to be a

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Speaker 1: newscaster letting everyone know that like a new virus has

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Speaker 1: been found, has reached the coasts of the United States

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Speaker 1: and is spreading rapidly through populated areas. But we already

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Speaker 1: we all did that, so it's not really funny. So

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know, Sophie, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm you know, it's a podcast. I failed. I failed,

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Speaker 1: But you know who's not a failure.

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Speaker 2: Sophie, Oh yeah, I do.

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Speaker 1: The guests that we have for this spectacular podcast episode today,

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Speaker 1: the glorious Michael Swam and the inimitable Abraham Epperson.

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Speaker 3: I'm glorious. But you could imitate it if you try to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you could imitate. You could imitate Michael, but but.

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Speaker 4: Not a but and I have I have no discernment

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Speaker 4: of quality, but you can't replicate it.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, that's right.

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Speaker 3: No one said it's good.

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Speaker 1: It's just hard.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just like whoa, that's hard to do.

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Speaker 5: I love this.

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Speaker 1: I love that we we had a pitch meeting about

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Speaker 1: my compliments to turn them into insults. That was nice.

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Speaker 1: It's really making me nostalgic for the old days. A cracked.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, by doing a War of the worlds,

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Speaker 3: I totally thought you meant get sick and die like

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Speaker 3: just keel over. Robert was the best of us all,

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Speaker 3: but he wouldn't handle as simple Covid.

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Speaker 1: No, I I'm you know, uh covid who the CDC

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Speaker 1: says it's over, So we're good. Yeah, I'm not even

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Speaker 1: worried about it anymore. Michael abe as I. As I

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Speaker 1: stated a little earlier, we all used to work together

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Speaker 1: at the old place, at the shop, at the comedy

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Speaker 1: website that was based off of a comedy magazine that

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Speaker 1: nobody read in the nineteen sixties, but the website did.

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Speaker 3: Quite well for a time. Matt TV the website if you.

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Speaker 1: Will, Yeah, yeah, you guys are back on The last

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Speaker 1: time we had both of you together was talking about

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Speaker 1: the end of l Ron Hubbard and listening to his

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Speaker 1: gligorious his glorious song. Thank you for listening. And today

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Speaker 1: I've got you on to talk about a very special

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Speaker 1: piece of shit, one one of the rare bastards who

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Speaker 1: has had a major impact on the life of every

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Speaker 1: single person listening to this podcast. But before we get

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Speaker 1: into that, you guys have a project that you're working

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Speaker 1: on that's very exciting, and I want to I want

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Speaker 1: to start with a plug up front so that we

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Speaker 1: can get to that before people souls leave their bodies

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Speaker 1: with depression.

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Speaker 2: And I'm supposed to remind you that you also have

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Speaker 2: a podcast because Danill threatened my life.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, all right, well let's dispense with that quickly.

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Speaker 3: I do a podcast with Adam Ganzer where we talk

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Speaker 3: about video games. It's called One Upsmanship. I love it

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Speaker 3: dearly and it's a weekly show. That's great. But wait,

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Speaker 3: there's more. Wow, and thank you, Robert, because ye value,

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Speaker 3: we're definitely here just to announce that we're clear. Since

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Speaker 3: the hybrid episode, we're totally clear, So good for us.

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Speaker 3: And with that new found power, we've decided to try

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Speaker 3: and make an indie movie. It would be our second

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Speaker 3: indie movie. The first one's called kill Me Now. If

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Speaker 3: you want to see if we suck at it, you

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Speaker 3: could go watch kill Me Now on YouTube.

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Speaker 4: It's available.

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Speaker 3: One's entirety thank you, and it's been a long time

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Speaker 3: and we're ready for number two. If you knew us

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Speaker 3: from Cracked, or like, if you knew like After Hour's agency,

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Speaker 3: Crack does not compute hundreds of sketches. We were kind

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Speaker 3: of the engine behind that. And this movie is based

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Speaker 3: on the hilarious, poignant true story of when my dad

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Speaker 3: came out as a gay furry. It's super funny, but

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Speaker 3: it's also got a lot of heart. It weaves a

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Speaker 3: bunch of other stuff in there as well. And Abe,

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Speaker 3: do you have anything to add?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, url, Yeah, you can go help us out by

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Speaker 4: going to seed andspark dot com, slash fund, slash Papa

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Speaker 4: Dash Bear, and you can become part of the movie,

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Speaker 4: get stuff from the movie, watch the film early, even

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Speaker 4: go to a premiere. We're stoked about telling the story.

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Speaker 4: So if you can't help us get what we need

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Speaker 4: to make it right, Yeah, Yeah. At the lowest tier,

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Speaker 4: you're basically pre buying a ticket because you'll just get

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Speaker 4: a private link to the movie when it's ready. We

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Speaker 4: have other funding like going on behind the scenes, but

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Speaker 4: the crowdfunding piece, which is going wrong right now of course,

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Speaker 4: is super crucial. And there's cooler stuff than that to get.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're doing it at the highest level, you

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Speaker 1: will literally be able to call yourself a producer and

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Speaker 1: wear suspenders and like a nice iron shirt and do

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Speaker 1: mountains of cocaine while smoking a cigar. Don't forget the hat,

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Speaker 1: cheating on your your wife. You get a signed hat,

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Speaker 1: all sorts of good stuff do we pros.

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Speaker 3: We execute the adoption papers with your name on him,

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Speaker 3: and you become my dad. You are legally wow, wow,

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Speaker 3: Mike's dad.

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Speaker 1: You know, considering the movie is about your dad, that

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Speaker 1: does kind of seem like a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: kick in the face.

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Speaker 4: It's weird.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's a gift of the magi type situation

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Speaker 1: where like I was able to make a movie about you, dad,

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Speaker 1: but now you're no longer my dad.

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Speaker 3: But as you forget him, yeah, it own rights, It

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Speaker 3: comes out of your brain and disappears. But yeah, that's

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Speaker 3: Papa Bear. Papa Bear Bear look it up. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: let's check it out. Yeah, of horrors do you have

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Speaker 3: for it? Excited to be here?

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Speaker 1: A real a real horror. So we we should start

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Speaker 1: a little bit here by talking about capitalism. You know,

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Speaker 1: something that we're all intimately familiar with and one of

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Speaker 1: the most and things to understand if you want to know,

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Speaker 1: kind of like why the US and its friends won

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Speaker 1: the Cold War, is that for a lot of people

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Speaker 1: in the United States and other Western countries, capitalism seemed

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Speaker 1: like a pretty fucking good deal from the time of

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Speaker 1: the New Deal up through the late seventies to early eighties. Now,

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Speaker 1: obviously this was predicated on extraction from countries outside of

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Speaker 1: the United States and Western Europe, from the Global South,

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Speaker 1: whatever you want to call them, and it was also

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Speaker 1: funded by supporting the subjugation by dictatorships of people living

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Speaker 1: in those countries in order to extract resources. But within

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Speaker 1: the United States itself, in particular, Americans saw a forty

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Speaker 1: or so year long period where the standard of living

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Speaker 1: and the average amount of wealth held per person increased

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Speaker 1: it a pretty dramatic and extremely consistent rate. Prior to

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Speaker 1: the New Deal, corruption and abuse within capitalism were pretty

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Speaker 1: much universal and the biggest companies were the ones that

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Speaker 1: were generally the best at holding their workers down at gunpoint.

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Speaker 1: But after their Great Depression, there were new regulations introduced,

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Speaker 1: and this, combined with progressive social welfare policies ushered in

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Speaker 1: by the FDR administration, helped lead the United States towards

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Speaker 1: the titanic growth of the post war years. Inequality plummet.

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Speaker 1: It managers and workers, you know, were generally obviously paid differently,

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't like you see today, right, Like a

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Speaker 1: guy working the line at a factory was not getting

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Speaker 1: like one five hundredth of the amount of money that

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Speaker 1: like the CEO of the company got. They were living

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Speaker 1: kind of in the same vague planet, you know, when

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Speaker 1: it came to income, and a lot of the days

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Speaker 1: business gurus argued that this was necessary for healthy economic functioning.

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Speaker 1: This was actually the most efficient way for the system

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Speaker 1: to work. In nineteen forty three, Johnson and Johnson's CEO

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Speaker 1: authored a company credo that spoke to a lot of

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Speaker 1: people in big business in the United States. He argued

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Speaker 1: that the company's first responsibility was to its customers, its

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Speaker 1: second was to its employees, who he said deserved a

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Speaker 1: sense of security with just management and short working hours

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Speaker 1: and fair wages. Duty was to management, and then last

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Speaker 1: and least, it had a duty to its investors and shareholders. Quote, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was the last. That's the CEO of Johnson and Johnson.

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Speaker 1: Business must make a sound profit, high taxes paid, new

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Speaker 1: factories built, new products launched. When these things have been done,

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Speaker 1: the owners and stockholders should receive a fair return. So

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Speaker 1: that's pretty different.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: It feels like all things have become grotesquely extreme to

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Speaker 3: the point of like ruining everything.

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Speaker 4: You know, it takes time.

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Speaker 3: At the beginning, I feel like they didn't realize how

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Speaker 3: far they could go on, how much they could get

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Speaker 3: away with. It takes time to wake up and go, wait,

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Speaker 3: could we take it all? Like oh oh ghit.

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Speaker 1: It takes time, and I think it also takes you know,

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Speaker 1: part of why this state of affairs came to be.

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Speaker 1: It didn't like these companies didn't start treating workers well

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Speaker 1: and sharing profits with them because it was nice. They

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Speaker 1: did it because the country, like the United States, nearly

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Speaker 1: collapsed into like a revolution, right, Like things were that

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Speaker 1: bad at the very worst of the Great Depression, the

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Speaker 1: govern was worried, like are we going to do a

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Speaker 1: Russia and that fear faded. You know, that's kind of

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Speaker 1: the story we're telling today. So I'm going to get

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Speaker 1: ahead of myself. But if you want to look at

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Speaker 1: kind of the company during what's called the Golden Age

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Speaker 1: of capitalism, which is this period from the end of

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Speaker 1: World War Two up to kind of the Reagan era,

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Speaker 1: the company that best embodied both the strengths of that

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Speaker 1: capitalist system that existed then and the kind of innovation

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Speaker 1: that could come from it is General Electric. Now, over

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Speaker 1: the years it was founded kind of in the late

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, and in the years since its founding, its

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Speaker 1: engineers and scientists brought the world like half of the

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Speaker 1: things that we consider like crucial aspects of daily modern life.

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Speaker 1: They invented incandescent light bulbs, They invented the electric plant.

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Speaker 1: They shipped radios around the world and invented many of

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Speaker 1: the first radios. They crafted the first vacuum tubes, They

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Speaker 1: invented the garbage disposal. They created a wide variety of

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Speaker 1: moldible and transparent plastics that became ubiquitous in house old products,

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Speaker 1: and also every creature living in the ocean. Obviously, you

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Speaker 1: know that part's not great, but on the a positive side,

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Speaker 1: the silicon rubber that they invented was a like made

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Speaker 1: space travel possible, Like you don't get human beings into

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Speaker 1: space without it.

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Speaker 4: All these are bangers. These are all bangs.

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Speaker 1: These are all bangers. They're all impressive. Yeah. So this

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Speaker 1: is like, for about one hundred straight years, from the

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Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds to the nineteen eighties, ge was not

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Speaker 1: just a company that made a lot of money. It

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Speaker 1: was a company that regularly invented things, or at least

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Speaker 1: it's you know, it's workers did the scientists that it

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Speaker 1: paid invented things that changed life for people all around

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Speaker 1: the world. That was us chairs y Yeah, yeah, fucking

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Speaker 1: ginkin of stuff. Yeah. And their workforce was compensated, you know,

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Speaker 1: as you'd expect given their success. G Yeah, as many

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Speaker 1: light bulbs as you can fit in your your cheek

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Speaker 1: pouches like a squirrel. No, they were the company. They

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Speaker 1: were one of the companies that they essentially invented the

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Speaker 1: kind of modern concept of an employee retirement plan. They

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Speaker 1: gave workers profit sharing. They were the first company I

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Speaker 1: think to have like provide insurance for workers. They invested

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Speaker 1: in the ongoing and ongoing education for their workforce. They

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Speaker 1: had a corporate campus that featured swimming pools and spas

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Speaker 1: and tennis courts and football fields and free classes and

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Speaker 1: stuff like tap dancing that had no profit, you know,

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Speaker 1: making benefit for GE, but made the workers happy. They

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Speaker 1: kind of pioneered the shit that we now associate with

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Speaker 1: like the golden age of the tech industry, right like

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Speaker 1: that Gesy, like the twenties, Yeah, exactly. And this was

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Speaker 1: part of an understanding by the management elite of the

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Speaker 1: era that a happy workforce was one that would not

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Speaker 1: tear you apart and shoot your family in a dank basement.

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Speaker 1: Men like GE CEO Gerald Swape had the Czar on

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Speaker 1: his mind when he described the company ethos as welfare

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Speaker 1: capitalism in nineteen twenty two. This was a term that

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Speaker 1: like a CEO, felt proud to use, like our company

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Speaker 1: practices welfare capitalism. In nineteen twenty seven, company chairman Own

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Speaker 1: Young gave a speech at Harvard where he attacked businessmen

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Speaker 1: who tried to quote squeeze out of labor, its last

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Speaker 1: ounce of effort and last penny of compensation. Executives he

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Speaker 1: argued needed to quote think in terms of human beings.

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Speaker 1: Who put their lives in labor in a common enterprise

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Speaker 1: for mutual advantage. And there's nothing more alien to kind

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Speaker 1: of the business grules of our day than the concept

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Speaker 1: of mutual advantage.

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Speaker 4: Now they were still rich, right, Like.

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Speaker 1: Yes, a lot they had plenty of money.

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Speaker 3: Yes, they still led lives of plenty right.

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Speaker 1: And I should state a lot of times in one

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Speaker 1: of the main sources that we're going to wind up

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Speaker 1: using for this episode, this this erraor gets a romanticized.

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Speaker 1: Part of why it gets romanticized is that a lot

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Speaker 1: was nicer back than Like compensation of workers in the

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Speaker 1: United States was much nicer. The system itself was still

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Speaker 1: pretty soaked in blood. For example, GE ex executives may

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Speaker 1: have cared greatly for their workforce in the United States,

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Speaker 1: but they had no issue with the idea that GE

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Speaker 1: products would be used to murder civilians in foreign countries.

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Speaker 1: GE's T seven hundred helicopter engine powered the Blackhawk after

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Speaker 1: its adoption in nineteen seventy eight. They also made the

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Speaker 1: engines for basically all of the helicopters that the United

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Speaker 1: States used to annihilate large chunks of jungle in Vietnam.

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Speaker 1: They made the engines for the planes that dropped the

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Speaker 1: defoliates that gave everybody fucking cancer. They were one of

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Speaker 1: the top ten largest contractors used by the US government

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Speaker 1: to make nuclear weapons over the course of the Cold War.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're not just like making nukes, but nukes.

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Speaker 1: There's a bunch of parts that nukes involved, and so

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Speaker 1: GE was one of the primary suppliers of those parts.

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Speaker 1: At the height of the Vietnam War, they made more

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Speaker 1: than one point six billion dollars a year in military contracts,

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Speaker 1: making them the second highest paid defense contractor of the

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Speaker 1: bloodiest chapter of the Cold War. So that's all bad, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: it's not. I'm not trying to like whitewash this stuff here.

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Speaker 1: Different than light bulbs. I'll give you this. It's different

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Speaker 1: than light bulbs, light bulbs and death bulbs.

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Speaker 3: Light bulbs, rubber gaskets, the bicycle wheel bulletsuke, telicopters.

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Speaker 1: You're all gonna die, Michael. They did, in fact invent

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Speaker 1: the laser, by the way, that was also a GE invention.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I love this. This is fantastic. You throw a dead.

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Speaker 3: Cat in the room and you're like, oh, they invented

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Speaker 3: dead cats.

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Speaker 4: There's something about the blindness created by overcoming trauma. Like

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Speaker 4: I'm sure you're gonna get into it, but it like

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Speaker 4: doesn't make the crimes go away. Like if the skeletons

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Speaker 4: in the closet were like kind of made in order

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Speaker 4: to build the closet, that doesn't justify anything. And that's

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Speaker 4: my standpoint. But it's like amazing to see what America

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Speaker 4: has done in order to be Like, you can't make

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Speaker 4: fun of General Electric. They're goddamn General Electric, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean, and they are. That was very

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Speaker 1: much like they were seen as an institution, like almost

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Speaker 1: a branch of the government. And part of it was

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Speaker 1: the degree to which, like so many Americans, hundreds of

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Speaker 1: thousands were employed by them, and it was like kind

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Speaker 1: of cradle to grave employment. If you've got a job

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Speaker 1: with GE in this period, that was your job for life.

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Speaker 1: And then when you retired they would pay you a pension,

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Speaker 1: you know, like a yeah, if you if you keep

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Speaker 1: the US military machine rich in killing machines, GE will

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Speaker 1: take care of you, right, Like that was the bargain,

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Speaker 1: you know. So I want to quote now from a

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Speaker 1: book by a guy named David Gels called The Man

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Speaker 1: who Broke capitalism and spoilers. The man that the book

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Speaker 1: is about is who will be talking about today. Quote.

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Speaker 1: An annual report from nineteen fifty three described how GE

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Speaker 1: worked in the balanced best interests of all. The report

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Speaker 1: trumpeted how much the company had paid in taxes, the

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Speaker 1: virtues of paying its suppliers well, and how critical it

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Speaker 1: was to take care of its employees. That year, GE

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Speaker 1: proudly stated that it spent some thirty seven percent of

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Speaker 1: its sales on pay and benefits for its workers, resulting

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Speaker 1: in the biggest payroll in the company's history, with more

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Speaker 1: people at work than ever before. Next to the statistic

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Speaker 1: was an illustration of a grinning factory worker walking away

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Speaker 1: from the assembly line holding bags of money. Only after

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Speaker 1: enumerting all the ways in which it was helping the government, suppliers,

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Speaker 1: and employees, did the company mention how much it allocated

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Speaker 1: for investors, the sum a modest three point nine percent

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Speaker 1: of sales. I think about how weird that is, right Like,

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Speaker 1: right now we're going through this thing where like the

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Speaker 1: head of the Federal Reserve is talking about how bad

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Speaker 1: it is that wages have kept rising and that's like

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Speaker 1: a problem, Like we need to discipline laborers, so they

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Speaker 1: expect less. But in nineteen fifty three, Ges being like,

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Speaker 1: we're giving everything that we have to our workers. Isn't

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Speaker 1: that dope? How much money we're paying our employees, Like

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Speaker 1: this is what you would brag about.

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Speaker 3: And it was so many issues. It's like vice versa.

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Speaker 3: Which party you'd think, like conservative traditionalists would be like,

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Speaker 3: this makes more sense, Like I would say, no, it's weirder. Now.

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Speaker 3: What's weird is if you have a human enterprise and

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Speaker 3: the person who makes the most money from it has

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Speaker 3: no they didn't work there, they didn't invent it, they

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Speaker 3: didn't form the business, they have nothing to do with it.

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Speaker 3: Like that's weird. It's weird to me that that's how

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Speaker 3: it works.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't imagine what you're thinking of when you

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Speaker 1: say that, working in the film and entertainment industry, Michael.

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Speaker 1: But so, the idea that was common at the time

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Speaker 1: among the people who ran companies like GE was that

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Speaker 1: corporations had a responsibility both to the United States as

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Speaker 1: a whole and to their workers. GE's head of employee

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Speaker 1: benefits listed quote maximalizing employment security as a prime company

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Speaker 1: goal in nineteen sixty two because the ability of workers

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Speaker 1: to feel secure in their future was, in his words,

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Speaker 1: the most productive asset the company had. Obviously, again, I

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Speaker 1: hope I haven't underemphasized the inequalities that in the system,

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Speaker 1: but those inequalities were sternalized primarily right, The inequalities with

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Speaker 1: an American capitalism were outside of the United States, primarily

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Speaker 1: right within the US there was actually, like quite certainly

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Speaker 1: a less unequal system than we have today. And we

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Speaker 1: can see how kind of widespread these ideas were in

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Speaker 1: the simple fact that from nineteen forty eight to nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy nine, worker pay in the United States grew at

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Speaker 1: the same or close to the same rate as worker productivity.

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Speaker 1: But since nineteen seventy nine this has changed dramatically. From

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine to twenty twenty, net productivity rose sixty

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Speaker 1: one point eight percent, while the hourly pay of typical

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Speaker 1: workers grew at about seventeen point five percent over four decades.

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Speaker 1: So it went from they grew at kind of the

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Speaker 1: same rate during this quoite golden age of capitalism to

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Speaker 1: worker pay grew less than a third, at less than

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Speaker 1: a third of the rate that productivity grew. Right, What

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Speaker 1: does that mean? I mean that means workers are getting shafted, right, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's no other way to look at that. Now, a

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Speaker 1: lot of different factors had to come together to change

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Speaker 1: this state of affairs, and obviously there's not one single

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Speaker 1: person that's solely responsible for why everything got a lot

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Speaker 1: worse within the here's his name, but there is. He

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Speaker 1: is the guy who He's not the guy who caused

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Speaker 1: all of this, but he is the guy who his

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Speaker 1: his career is the dividing line between the golden age

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Speaker 1: of capitalism and the era we live in now, this

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Speaker 1: grim age of billionaire CEOs and starving workers on food

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Speaker 1: stamps and like zero innovation. Effectively, like, there's a single

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Speaker 1: guy whose life is sort of the dividing line between

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Speaker 1: those two periods. He was the CEO of General Electric

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Speaker 1: and his name was Jack Welch. He is such a

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Speaker 1: bad person. You guys are really going to have a

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Speaker 1: terrible time with this episode. I'm excited for this.

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Speaker 4: So I've seen Yeah, I've seen this guy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's very famous. He wrote he wound he like

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Speaker 1: in his retirement, wrote like twenty different five management books

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Speaker 1: that are all the same book, right, Like, yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: they're all like nonsense, uh corporate like uh uh bullshit

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Speaker 1: to keep in your fucking bookcase behind you while you

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Speaker 1: do a zoom call, so everybody thinks that you uh,

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Speaker 1: you know what you're.

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Speaker 3: Talking about exactly, and everyone wins way and all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's he's a real great guys.

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Speaker 4: Name is Welch. I just want to before we begin,

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's going to Welch on a lot of bets.

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Speaker 5: So so the two books that I've used as sources

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Speaker 5: for much of this episode are the book that I

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Speaker 5: quoted from earlier, The Man who Broke Capitalism by David Wells,

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Speaker 5: and Jacksone autobiography Jack Straight from the Gut.

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Speaker 1: It's a horrible book. The first book, The Man who

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Speaker 1: Broke Capitalism, is pretty well written, and it's a pretty

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Speaker 1: damning indictment of Welch's career. It is written by a

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Speaker 1: guy who really believes in capitalism, and so there's one

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Speaker 1: of its flaws is that it definitely takes the like

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Speaker 1: things were so good before this guy came along and

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Speaker 1: like ruined this wonderful system. And it's like, I don't know, man,

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00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 1: like I agree he made things works, but like during

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Speaker 1: the Golden Age of Capitalism. We like underwrote coups in

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Speaker 1: Guatemala and Korea and El Salvador and Chile and whatnot

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Speaker 1: in order to like secure resources for US corporations. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: that like it wasn't great before. You know, Jack Welch

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Speaker 1: didn't do any of that, but he did. He did

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Speaker 1: take capitalism in the US from a system that benefited

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Speaker 1: Americans at the expense of other people to a system

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Speaker 1: that benefited like forty guys at the expense of the

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Speaker 1: rest of the world. And that is bad. I guess

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Speaker 1: I don't know how you can parse that out morally

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Speaker 1: however you want. That's not my job. I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to solve this for you. But he's a real piece

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Speaker 1: of shit. So let's talk about that.

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Speaker 3: Ah wait, wait, I thought at the end of Behind

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Speaker 3: the Bastards, at the very end of the series, you

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Speaker 3: would reveal the answer that would solve everything, right is

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Speaker 3: that now where we're I?

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Speaker 1: I you know, Michael, I do have an answer for you.

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Speaker 1: It would have been the answer to Jack Welch if

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Speaker 1: someone had done it earlier in his career, but it

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Speaker 1: could still be the answer to a lot of bastards. Legally,

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Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to say it on air. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: it rhymes with schmargeted, schmash machination. Okay, like that's that's

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Speaker 1: that's the answer. So Welsch's autobiography is probably the most

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Speaker 1: self serving piece of trash I've read in my life,

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Speaker 1: and I have read Saddam Hussein's writing Deal The Deal.

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Speaker 1: I kind of think so because because at least Welsh

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00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: did all of the terrible things that he's talking about.

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Speaker 1: It opens with these telling lines and strap yourselves in boys,

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Speaker 1: this this one's rough. This may seem a strange way

434
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 1: to begin an autobiography. A confession. I hate having to

435
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: use the first person. Nearly everything I've done in my

436
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 1: life has been accomplished with other people. Yet when you

437
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 1: write a book like this, you're forced to use the

438
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 1: narrative I, when it's really the WI that counts. Now,

439
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: that could be nice, right, But what Jack is actually

440
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 1: setting up here is not that like I've been forced

441
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 1: to use I, and that means I'm not going to

442
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: give enough credit to other people. What he's actually setting

443
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: up here is that, like in this book, he takes

444
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: credit for every good thing that happens at GE during

445
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 1: its tenure, and I think he just in the initial

446
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: draft of this gave himself credit for everything good that happened,

447
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: and then his editor came in and was like, you

448
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: sound like a giant prick, So you have to add

449
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: something at the start of the book saying you're sorry

450
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,439
Speaker 1: for using I all the time. That is that is

451
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 1: exactly what I suspect happened. You know that, Like an

452
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 1: editor came in and was like, Jack, you got to

453
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: like write something at the start here because you sound

454
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: like a dick. Yeh. He continues with one of the

455
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: funniest sentences I've ever seen in an autobiography. Please remember

456
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: that every time you see the word I in these pages,

457
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: it refers to all those colleagues and friends and some

458
00:23:58,160 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: I might have missed.

459
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 3: Now we move on again.

460
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, hell yes, hell yeah, the absolute gall arrogance.

461
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. It's so good. As soon as

462
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 1: I because I was trying to decide, we don't do

463
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 1: a lot of like CEO bastards, because like you know,

464
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: a lot of them are terrible, but they're usually boring,

465
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: so we're more likely to do like you know, we'll

466
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 1: talk about the Beaupul disaster in India, rather than like

467
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: doing the life of the CEO of Union Carbide or whatever,

468
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: because most of them just aren't very interesting.

469
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 3: When I was trying to they raised the price. Then

470
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 3: they raised it again.

471
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah again. Yeah. But Jack Welch. As soon as

472
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 1: I read that, I was like, all right, this guy's

473
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: gotta be enough of a piece of shit for an episode,

474
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 1: And boy, howdy, he sure is. John Francis Welch, Junior

475
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: was born on November nineteenth, nineteen thirty five, in Peabody, Massachusetts,

476
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: just in time to miss the Great Depression and fully

477
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,679
Speaker 1: benefit from the more restrained, thoughtful era of capitalism that

478
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: followed it. His dad was a conductor for the railroad.

479
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: He was a union man, and while he worked long hours,

480
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: he benefited from benefits and pay good enough that he

481
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: was able to buy a house for his family. His mother,

482
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: we'll talk about more in a second. They had Jack

483
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: late in life. She was thirty six and his dad

484
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 1: was forty one. They had spent years trying to make

485
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: a baby, and unfortunately, with Jack they succeeded. He was

486
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: an only child, and in his own recollection quote, my

487
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 1: mother poured her love into me as if I were

488
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: a found treasure. Jack finds it very important that you

489
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: believe his family weren't financially comfortable. He wasn't born with

490
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: a silver spoon, is literally how he writes it in

491
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: his book, because he's not a very imaginative person. This

492
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: is technically true in that his family was working class.

493
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 1: It's untrue in the fact that he was born in

494
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: the single luckiest era financially to have been born in

495
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: the history of the human race. Again, his dad, working

496
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: a single job, without a high school income, was able

497
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: to buy a home and put his child through college

498
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: without taking on debt. Just a just a different world. Now.

499
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: Neither his mom or dad graduated from high school. They

500
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 1: were with Irish immigrants, and their house was across the

501
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: street from a factory, which his dad continued considered to

502
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:16,719
Speaker 1: be a plus because it meant that there were no

503
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: neighbors partying on the weekends. Jack's dad collected magazines and

504
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: newspapers from writers on the train during his work day,

505
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: and he brought them home. Jack started reading the news,

506
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 1: you know, as a result of this, and yeah, that's

507
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: how he kind of like got into the world. Jack's

508
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: dad also introduced his son to golf, telling him that

509
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: all the big shots on the train talked about their

510
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: golf score constantly, so Jack should probably learn how to

511
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 1: golf if he wanted to make a lot of money.

512
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 4: Wait, it's just like a golfing newsreading boy.

513
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, crimes. The CEO wouldn't be boring.

514
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 4: Is like, don't worry, suck on peppermint candies and drink milk. Like,

515
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 4: what's going on it.

516
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: We'll get to We'll get to what else is going

517
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: on here? Jack's dad is a you know, it's the

518
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: kind he's the kind of you kind of get some

519
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,239
Speaker 1: of the workaholism from this. His dad was dedicated enough

520
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:08,959
Speaker 1: to his job that, like, if the weather was going

521
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 1: to be bad, he'd have his wife drive him to

522
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: the station and he'd sleep there overnight before a shift.

523
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 1: He did not spend a lot of time with his son.

524
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 1: He worked from five am to eight pm every single day.

525
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: So Jack's primary influence was his mom, and if his

526
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: autobiography is in any way credible, she was obsessively devoted

527
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: to him and somewhat manically focused on making him a success.

528
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 1: Quote one of her favorite expressions was, don't kid yourself.

529
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,120
Speaker 1: That's the way it is. If you don't study, you'll

530
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: be nothing, absolutely nothing. There are no shortcuts. Don't kid yourself.

531
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: So she's just like yelling at him to be so. Like.

532
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: For an example of how kind of unhinged this woman is,

533
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: she would force her son, when he was like a preteen,

534
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: to go and gamble with the money that he had

535
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: earned as like a caddy, so that he understood what

536
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: it felt like to lose money.

537
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's the weird lesson literally like home.

538
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 1: That's an insane lesson.

539
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 3: Soldier honed in a dojo to be good with money. Yeah,

540
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 3: to understand risk.

541
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that's just a crazy thing to do, but

542
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: it worked. I guess so good. Yeah. Ge So, from

543
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: his earliest years in school, his mother was obsessed with

544
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: the fact that he needed to excel, he writes in

545
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: his autobiography. She knew how to be tough with me,

546
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: but also how to hug and kiss. She wanted to

547
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: make sure I knew how wanted and loved I was.

548
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: I'd come home with four a's and a B on

549
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: my report card, and my mother would want to know

550
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: why I got the B. But she would always in

551
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: the conversation congratulating and hugging me for the a's. My

552
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: mother never managed people, but she knew all about building

553
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: self esteem. I grew up with a speech impediment, a

554
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: stammer that wouldn't go away. Sometimes it led to comical,

555
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: if not embarrassing incidents. In college. I have an order

556
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: to tune a fish on white toast on Fridays when

557
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: Catholics in those days couldn't eat meat. Inevitably, the waitress

558
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: would return with not one but a pair of sandwiches,

559
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: having heard my order as to tuna sandwiches.

560
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 4: All right, yeah, yeah, you're just rambling.

561
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 6: This is just rambling. No, this is his this is

562
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 6: his life. First off one studying point two is it's

563
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 6: really weird to open up your conversations about your mother

564
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 6: and say that she's a good hugger and kisser.

565
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's a good hugger. She's a good kisser. She

566
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: made me gamble so that I learned to be a

567
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: business man. Uh yeah. She told him that he stuttered

568
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: because he was too smart and his tongue couldn't keep

569
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: up with his brain, which is sweet, except for the

570
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: man that this guy grows into is someone who clearly

571
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: had more self esteem than was responsible to give a child. Again,

572
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: this is controversial, but I think it should be illegal

573
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: to be nice to children, otherwise they turn out like this.

574
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: I don't there's no other way to look at this,

575
00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: you know. So he grows up extremely confident. One of

576
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: kind of the signs of how confident he is is that,

577
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: like you know, in when he was in high school,

578
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: he was on the football team and the hockey team.

579
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 4: Well, of course, so much protein. Yeah time, he's a

580
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 4: big tuneaboy.

581
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: Well, no, he's tiny. He's the shortest guy in his Basically.

582
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 4: It went into his brain, all the power in his brain.

583
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 4: He's yeah, smart.

584
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: He he kind of says that basically his mom made

585
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: him so confident that he didn't notice he was so

586
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: super tiny. But eventually, like he stops being able to

587
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: compete in these sports because he's this little bitty shrimp

588
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: of a man. And that's why he gets really into golf, because,

589
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: you know, golf, you don't have to be good at anything.

590
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: To be good at golfing, all you have to do

591
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: is know how to talk about the stock market, right,

592
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: That's that's all golfing's really.

593
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 4: I'm sure many golfers disagree with you, but let's run

594
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 4: with it.

595
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, who gives a fuck with golfers say, that's running

596
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: the other other than everyone who runs the country.

597
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, also running the other card off the road with

598
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 3: your cart for bonus points. But you know that's all.

599
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: Now, that part of golf I actually do. That's the

600
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: one good.

601
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

602
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: I like that.

603
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 4: Yeah. I like the many cars they have.

604
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: Absolutely so. Jack's autobiography is the standard self mythologizing of

605
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: the corporate ubermensche, and it's honestly pretty worthless for anything

606
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: but the broadest details of his actual childhood and the

607
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: insight that we get from knowing what kind of stuff

608
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: he wants us to believe about him. But there is

609
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: one passage in it in which he exposes something that

610
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: I think might be him actually sharing some vulnerability, and

611
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to read that now. I was incredibly dependent

612
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 1: on my parents. Many times, when my mother left the

613
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: house to pick up my dad, the train would be late.

614
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: When I was twelve or thirteen, the delays would drive

615
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: me crazy. I'd run out of the house and down

616
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: Lovett Street, my heart racing to see if they were

617
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: around the corner on the way home. Out of fear

618
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: that something had happened to them. I just couldn't lose them.

619
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: They were my world. It was a fear that I

620
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: shouldn't have had, because my mother raised me to be strong, tough,

621
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: and independent. She always feared she would die young, a

622
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: victim of the heart disease that struck down everyone in

623
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: her family. So that's like the one glimpse that we

624
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: get that maybe this kid had a soul at some point.

625
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 4: Like it's actually heartbreaking.

626
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's I think that's also a

627
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: pretty natural fear with kids that like, yeah, yeah, my

628
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: parents will die, you know.

629
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 4: Like you you painted a portrait of the world for

630
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 4: me to fear, and so I feel it, and now

631
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 4: that I'm alone, I'm scared.

632
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,239
Speaker 1: That's almost interesting. It does kind of reveal, yeah, that, like,

633
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: whatever his picture of the world was, it was a

634
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: dangerous one out there.

635
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 3: And even if, like even if the death is just

636
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 3: a metaphor for like being thirsty for dad, which they

637
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 3: don't mean in a sexual way, you know what I mean.

638
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: No, I mean, it's fine, it's fine.

639
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 3: Let's take her fifteen hours a day. Yeah, kid might

640
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 3: just be like if he does, if his dad doesn't

641
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 3: show up on time, every second feels like I'm just

642
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 3: losing this scant time I have with my dad.

643
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 4: That makes sense.

644
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean it's it's it's a it's the

645
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: only actual like sign. We get that this man might

646
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: have one point had a soul, right, but you know

647
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: who doesn't have a soul? Michael A.

648
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 3: Boss baby?

649
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: Is what I hear?

650
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 4: Boss Baby?

651
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: Boss Baby? No, boss Baby does not have a soul

652
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: other than those souls. Yeah, clothes don't, by the way. Yeah,

653
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: which is you know everyone's talking about AI. I think

654
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: we ought to be we ought to be cloning. You know,

655
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: once we really get cloning figured out, then none of

656
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: us have to work because it's fine to force clones

657
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: to do it.

658
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what boss baby.

659
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 3: You remember when Dolly the Sheep happened and people were like,

660
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 3: even though they made a law against it, here we

661
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 3: go the the bet cats out of the bag. That

662
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 3: we've reached the tipping point. Someone in a six of

663
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 3: labs going to start making clones.

664
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 4: Where we are? Where are all the clones?

665
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 3: I'm disappointed.

666
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: It's extremely because I was watching that show Severance recently,

667
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: which isn't about cloning, but close enough, and I was like, Mala,

668
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: this would be great. What if we just what if

669
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: we could just create a slave race that we own

670
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: and have them do all the work I think to break.

671
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: We're back, and uh yeah, we're talking about how how

672
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: morally uncomplicated it would be to sever people's consciousness and

673
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: then create little little child brained slaves in order to

674
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: to to do our our obscure corporate labor. What a

675
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: good idea that show is Ben Stiller's beautiful version of

676
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: the vision.

677
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 3: Ben Stiller's vision. Really, Yeah, I think the furthest still

678
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 3: go down that road with you is lab grown organs

679
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 3: that are our organs to replace organs.

680
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 4: I'd totally go with that.

681
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I mean I don't want a lab grown

682
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: organ unless it comes from a thing with a brain

683
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 1: that knows that it's dying for me.

684
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 4: I wanted to pain, Yeah, I wanted to.

685
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: I wanted to know a fear before I take its

686
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: liver because I've destroyed mine. Yeah it Yeah, this is

687
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: what I've learned from Jack Welch. So it will surprise

688
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: you to hear that he was an altar boy for

689
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: much of his childhood a super Catholic family. Although it's interesting,

690
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: he just he always talks about how strict his mom was.

691
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: But the one story that he shares about her disciplining

692
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: him is not at all an example of her being strict.

693
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: At age eleven, he stole a ball from a carnival

694
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: that was in town, and when she found out, she

695
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: first tried to make him go confess to the priest.

696
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: But he was terrified of his priest and he was

697
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: worried that, like he'd be recognized in confession. So he

698
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: like begged his mom to just let him throw the

699
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: ball away, just like toss it into a canal, And

700
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: he writes, after negotiating with her, she let me have

701
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: my way. She drove me down to the bridge on

702
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: North Street and watched as I threw the ball into

703
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: the water. And considering the kind of corporate ghoulisc I

704
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 1: love that. His like big story of discipline is like

705
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: my mom, I stole something and my mom got angry.

706
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: But my mom, but I convinced her to just let

707
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: me poison the poison the water.

708
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 4: Sucked the system. In other words, she.

709
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: Just jump it into the water.

710
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 3: Well, she filed the serial number, and she's like this

711
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 3: never happen.

712
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 4: He is terrified to even write his mother as a

713
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 4: like a figure of evil in his own autobiography, I'm

714
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 4: not like obviously she's not evil evil, but like, no,

715
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 4: it is amazing what she did a number on this kid.

716
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: Maybe, yeah, I think there's certainly something she did. I

717
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: don't think we actually get a great context for what

718
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: she was actually like, because what I get from this

719
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: story is like, oh, she was like protecting him at

720
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: all costs and did not care about particularly teaching him

721
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: that like that kind of behavior was wrong. Like, she

722
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: was not the kind of person who felt like it

723
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: was important to instill a moral grounding in her kid.

724
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: She was the kind of person who felt like it

725
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,240
Speaker 1: was important that he'd be part of the church because socially,

726
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,479
Speaker 1: that's what you do. But more than anything, she wanted

727
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: him to be a success and to make money, right,

728
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: Like that's what she actually valued, and that's what she

729
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: selected for in her parenting. That's what I get from

730
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: Jack's book, right, you know, I didn't know his mom anyway.

731
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 1: It's pretty cool. In high school, Jack played, you know,

732
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: like I said, all of the major sports, but because

733
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: he was so short, after a while, he stopped being

734
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: able to compete at anything but golf and hockey, a

735
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: sport where short people could excel as long as they

736
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: were violent and from a young age. Jack had a

737
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: horrible temper and a problem with losing, which made him

738
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: a great hockey player. Yeah right, yeah, yeah it begin

739
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: So here's another story from his autobiography. The other team

740
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 1: scored and we lost again for the seventh time in

741
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 1: a row. In a fit of frustration, I flung my

742
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: hockey stick across the ice of the arena, skated after it,

743
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: and headed back to the locker room. The team was

744
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: already there, taking off their skates and uniforms, all of us.

745
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: The door open, and my Irish mother strode in. The

746
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: place fell silent. Every eye was glued to this middle

747
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 1: aged woman in a floral pattern dress as she walked

748
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: across the floor, past the wooden benches where some of

749
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: the guys were already changing. She went right for me,

750
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: grabbing the top of my uniform. You punk, she shouted

751
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 1: in my face. If you don't know how to lose,

752
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: you'll never know how to win. If you don't know this,

753
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be playing now.

754
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 3: You throw that hockey stick in the river, young man,

755
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:24,720
Speaker 3: And we never speak of this again.

756
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: I kind of think he's lying here. Maybe parts of

757
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: this are true. What his mom says, there is like

758
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: something you would write in a business book published in

759
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: two thousand and four. Yeah, yeah, a person doesn't say that.

760
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 3: Nobody says that, nor do you Nor do you remember

761
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 3: like floral dress swishing across the floor as memoy. You know,

762
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 3: he's trying to write what's going on?

763
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: Like maybe if she's being like you know, maybe she

764
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: got angry and yelled at him for being like, you know,

765
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: a bad sport. But she didn't. She didn't say that line.

766
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: That's a lie. That Like he hired consultants to think

767
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: up for him, and she beat the shit at of

768
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: me for a solid forty five minutes. Now that's a

769
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: story I would have believed.

770
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 4: It's the Ron Howard version of his life.

771
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. Obviously his real love was golf, which is a

772
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: love he would he would maintain his entire life. Jack

773
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: notes that he and all of the other boys who

774
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: worked as caddies at the country club competed vigorously to

775
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 1: caddy for like one of the two guys at the

776
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: club who actually tipped. He makes a point to note

777
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: that all of the rich people basically refuse to tip. Interesting. Interesting.

778
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 1: He was eventually forced to quit when the guy he

779
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,240
Speaker 1: was caddying for asked him to take off his socks

780
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: and shoes and wade into the water to get a ball.

781
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: Jack refused, and when the guy insisted, he grabbed the

782
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,959
Speaker 1: guy's clubs and threw them into the water, which cost

783
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 1: him a Club Caddy sponsors, a Club Caddy scholarship. So again,

784
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,399
Speaker 1: you know, guy with a temper right, guy who can't

785
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: really control his anger, Guy whose anger seems to be

786
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: primarily based around being feeling disresaffected.

787
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, exact golf a classic recipe for a bastard.

788
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, these golf clubs can't contain me, Like it's the

789
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 4: energy is so uh, it's beautiful. Yeah, it's a beautiful insecurity.

790
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: Yeah you could. Oh yeah, it's it's quite a it's something.

791
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: So he lost out on an ROTC scholarship with the

792
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: Navy as well. Why is unclear. In his book, he

793
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 1: makes a big deal about like me and my friends

794
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: we all passed the exam together. My dad had the

795
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: state representatives send in letters on my behalf. But then

796
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: my friends got their scholarship and I got turned down.

797
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: And I have no idea why. It's this big mystery

798
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: in my life. And it's like, I don't know, man,

799
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 1: maybe it didn't do well, like like, maybe you're an asshole,

800
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: and like the guy he's responsible for giving the scholarship

801
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 1: were like, I don't think this guy's a team player.

802
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: And this is literally the Navy. You know, there's a

803
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 1: number of things that could have been but maybe you

804
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: just didn't do very well, right, Like, it's not a mystery.

805
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:11,919
Speaker 1: I had a bunch of friends who applied to west

806
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: Point and didn't get into West Point. And it's not

807
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: a mystery. It's competitive. But Jack can't, like his ego

808
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: has to I think assume that there was something mysterious

809
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,439
Speaker 1: behind the scenes that cost him the scholarships, right, because

810
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: I didn't did Yeah.

811
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 3: Clearly as Catholic priest told them about that he stole

812
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 3: a ball.

813
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: That he took that ball. Yeah. So at any rate,

814
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: he did eventually get into college at Amherst, and he

815
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: started in nineteen fifty three, which is the same year

816
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: that Ge released that earnings report, being like, we are

817
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 1: giving all of our money to our employees, fuck our stockholders.

818
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 1: Isn't that dope? His time in college was pretty boring.

819
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,800
Speaker 1: I would describe him as a normy also as basic.

820
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: One of the few details we get is that he

821
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: brags it's so sad. He has like a light in

822
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: there where he's like, I was in a fraternity. We

823
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: ranked quote at or near the top and beer consumption

824
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: and had better parties than most. He does not give

825
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: a single example of a party. He does not relate

826
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: a single human interaction during his time at.

827
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 4: College objectively better parties.

828
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: It's like someone told a robot what you do at college,

829
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: and he was like, we drank the most beer and

830
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:28,359
Speaker 1: had the best parties. Yeah, yeah it is. It is

831
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: what an AI would write if you like fetit. This

832
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: guy's fucking life story, like be the coolest. Yeah we

833
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: did an animal house.

834
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 4: That's roight.

835
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So he eventually got a master's degree in

836
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: chemical engineering because he found it kind of interesting and

837
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: there were jobs. He goes into way hard science, but

838
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 1: he was not motivated by science, right. He's never someone

839
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: who's like in love with the idea of learning new things.

840
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,879
Speaker 1: He's someone who's like, well, science is like there's good

841
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 1: jobs and money, you know, chemical engineer, right, And we

842
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,240
Speaker 1: can see that in this anecdote he gives about flying

843
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: with after he gets his master's degree, flying out for

844
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: a job interview in Louisiana with a friend after graduation.

845
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: This is quite telling. On the airplane for my Ethel interview,

846
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: Ethel is the country or company. I was traveling with

847
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: one of my associates from the University of Illinois when

848
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: something odd happened. The stewardess came back and said, mister Welch,

849
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: would you like a drink? She then turned to my

850
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: colleague and said, doctor Gardner, would you like a drink?

851
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:35,399
Speaker 1: I thought doctor Gardner sounded a lot better than mister

852
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: golf club so hard. So that's it, right, Like He's

853
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: sitting with a friend and a stewardess calls his friend

854
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: a doctor, and he's like, well, that sounds better than

855
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 1: that's that's why he decides to get a PhD. Is

856
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: there super doctor?

857
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 3: Is this?

858
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 1: Is there a double doctor? It's purely it's purely about Cloud.

859
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: He doesn't ever express like an interest in chemical engineering,

860
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: like a love of science, you know, a desire, like

861
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: an appreciation for academics. It's I was getting a cocktail

862
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: once and yeah.

863
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 4: I swear to god, you're doing the origin story of

864
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:16,280
Speaker 4: like Homer Simpson.

865
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 3: Well, also the impulse that is dominant. He's the original

866
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 3: line goes up.

867
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 2: Guy.

868
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 3: All he cares about is line goes up. Yeah, yeah,

869
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 3: that's right.

870
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the same kind of energy of like fucking

871
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,280
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro. I see what he's like, Solis crypto guys

872
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: having an AI write a script that like nobody would

873
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 1: ever want to watch, Like there's no plot in it,

874
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: there's no character development, but it's formatted the way a

875
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: script is, and so people are like, look, it's a script.

876
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: It's like no. Yeah, Like Jack's like, I need to

877
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:50,240
Speaker 1: be a doctor because it sounds good because people respect

878
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: me if I'm a doctor. So I'm going to go,

879
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 1: I'm going to spend three more years in college becoming

880
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: a PhD in chemical engineering. I think that this is,

881
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: like probab, the single anecdote that does the most to

882
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: describe the soul of Jack Welch, a man so fundamentally

883
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: empty he pursued a PhD to impress airlines stewardesses. But

884
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,479
Speaker 1: also like that's that's a part of him and that's real.

885
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: But he's also a man who was capable of becoming

886
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 1: a doctor of chemical engineering, which is not an easy

887
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 1: thing to do just for clout right, Like that says

888
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: something about the man that is impressive. It's not good,

889
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 1: but it's impressed. It's impressive.

890
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 4: And driven.

891
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Yeah, he's driven. And it's like the worst

892
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: kind of driven, Like well, it's an empty and soulless

893
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 1: kind of it's the.

894
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 4: Kind of driven that is created by like a like

895
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 4: an upbringing that allows him to be like I'm scared

896
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 4: when I'm alone, you know, like it's the the abuse

897
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:49,320
Speaker 4: pays forward.

898
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's cool. Uh, it's his His mom really

899
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: did a great job on him. So his thesis for

900
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: his PhD was on Condon's in nuclear power plants. And

901
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: really the only time he talks about like doing science

902
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: in his entire autobiography is to mention that while he

903
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 1: was working on his thesis, this was the most important

904
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: thing in his life. And then he never brings any

905
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 1: of this up again. This is never a factor in

906
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: his life afterwards. He never thinks about like science really

907
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 1: in any meaningful way other than how to like monetize it.

908
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: He's what I'm saying is that he's got an incredible

909
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: ability to compartmentalize, right, and that's really going to be

910
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 1: his most valuable asset in business, is that he's so

911
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: good at just like shutting off parts of himself and

912
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: then flipping them on when he needs to. And that's

913
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 1: you know that word. It's one of those things. Like

914
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: the traits that make Jack good at the terrible things

915
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:47,800
Speaker 1: he's about to do are also the same kind of

916
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: traits that make like a surgeon a good surgeon. You know,

917
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 1: if you're like cutting into people, you have to be

918
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: able to like not care about cutting into a human being.

919
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: I think most of us find viscerally upsetting for a while.

920
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 1: You have to be able to just like, yeah, I'm

921
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: just like doing a thing. You know, it's the same

922
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 1: as wiring a fucking stereo system or whatever, and you

923
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: can't carry it.

924
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, and it's a thing and not be doing

925
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 3: it because it's a weird sex thing or you like

926
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 3: it or you're getting off.

927
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: That's no more than I'm going to say at least

928
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:19,320
Speaker 1: twenty percent of surgeons it is a weird sex thing.

929
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 3: Or being like God, but you gotta see surgeons.

930
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what this podcast wants to Welcome to Behind

931
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 1: but the Bastards, a podcast about surgeons.

932
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, all these surgeons out there, we see, Yeah, let's

933
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:35,839
Speaker 4: do a pole pot.

934
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 1: But on anyone able to remove a tumor, like just

935
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:43,760
Speaker 1: just go after them. No, I mean, but that is

936
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 1: he does have that like that same thing or that

937
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: like thing that you know, let's you know, some people

938
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: are are I don't know people to kind of do that. Yeah,

939
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 1: you know, I I don't know, Like that's a term

940
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: that's not an actual diagnosis. We kind of use it.

941
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: Most people interchange. I don't think it's some obviously, Like

942
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 1: it is pretty well documented that psychopaths. There's a very

943
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 1: high rate of psychopaths among like surgeons, and among any

944
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,720
Speaker 1: kind of job that sort of requires that kind of compartmentalization,

945
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: police officers, priests, you know, anybody who's got to be

946
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: able to like compartmentalize. There's a high rate of folks

947
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 1: like that. I don't know that Jack could have been

948
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: diagnosed with anything. But it's also like it's not like

949
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 1: a clean line, Like it's not like having hepatitis. You're

950
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 1: not just like a psychopath or not. There's traits that

951
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: we use to determine whether or not someone is likely

952
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 1: a psychopath. And some people may not be psychopaths, but

953
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: they have some of those traits and they're not all

954
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 1: bad things. And Jack, whatever you could diagnose him as

955
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: Jack has a lot of those traits, and one of

956
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 1: them is that he's able to just kind of shut

957
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: off parts of himself with robot like efficiency, So that's cool.

958
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: After graduating, he gets hired by General Electric in nineteen

959
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 1: sixty his first job, and basically only works for GE, right,

960
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 1: Like that's his whole life, his first job. Yeah, he

961
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: gets hired by GE in nineteen sixty and he gets

962
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: sent to a town called Pittsfield, which is at the

963
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: time kind of a minor outpost in GE's corporate empire.

964
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: He attracted notice as a manager pretty quickly. Just a

965
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: year in, he was told he was getting a thousand

966
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: dollars raise, and he was initially pretty happy with this

967
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 1: because he'd be working hard. He'd been working hard. But

968
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:28,919
Speaker 1: then he found out that all of his coworkers got

969
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: the same raise, and it like he loses his mind

970
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: over this, Like he is like so furious, he can't focus,

971
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,720
Speaker 1: he can't sleep, he can't think. He announces that he's quitting.

972
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: He tells all of his colleagues that he's quitting. He

973
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 1: like puts in his notice that he's leaving the company

974
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: because everyone got the same raise.

975
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 4: The equality.

976
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is this is his fucking joker moment, right,

977
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 1: this is his like, this is how he got his

978
00:49:56,280 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: scars because he like he decides to quit and his

979
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 1: boss apparently doesn't want to lose him and so meets

980
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,280
Speaker 1: with him and like offers him additional money. So jack

981
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 1: agrees to stay. And it's weird because in his book

982
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: he both he claims that when his boss like came

983
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 1: and said, hey, we don't want to lose you, that

984
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 1: he he almost like cried because he did he realized

985
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: quotes somebody loved me.

986
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's very important to Jacky Boy, Jackie boy.

987
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 1: But he also, you know, despite the fact this situation,

988
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 1: it's like with the ball, it completely went his way.

989
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 1: He didn't suffer any consequences for throwing a fit and

990
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 1: in fact he benefited, but.

991
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 3: Still really worried about it.

992
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: He's angry about it. He never gets over this for

993
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: decades later in his autobiography, he's angry about it forever. Yeah. Yeah,

994
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 1: he spends the rest of his life angry over the

995
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,800
Speaker 1: fact that he had almost only gotten the standard raish

996
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: and he even admits in his autobiography it quote probably

997
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 1: drove his behavior to an extreme and he's like, but.

998
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 3: When I say that, of course, I mean we really

999
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 3: you're to blame as well.

1000
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone else, my manager for not giving me more

1001
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 1: money up front. It's also worth noting that he got

1002
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 1: far enough along in the quitting process that his coworkers

1003
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 1: all bought him going away presence, which he did not

1004
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:14,959
Speaker 1: give back.

1005
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:18,280
Speaker 3: Smart dude.

1006
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,320
Speaker 1: But in his autobiography he just writes, I don't remember

1007
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: if I gave them back or not, which is also funny.

1008
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 3: I don't. Yeah, my secretary will have that information for

1009
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 3: you or whatever.

1010
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: An unpleasant man.

1011
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:35,280
Speaker 3: Who meanwhile he unboxes like a brand new cigar cutter

1012
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 3: and reads the tag off and yeah that's a cigar.

1013
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, just burns a dollar bill.

1014
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's Sydney Musburger from the Hudsucker Praxy in my mind.

1015
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 4: Now he's also he's also Jack Doneghe, who was a

1016
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 4: ge like a fictional character.

1017
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: It's very funny, aim that you bring up Jack Donaghy,

1018
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: because not only is Jack Donaghe from a third Rock

1019
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: based on Jack Welch. Jack shows up in uh in

1020
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: that show, in that show, right, yeah, yeah, he's in

1021
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 1: several episodes, so uh yeah, that's wild. But you know,

1022
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: what's not wild.

1023
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:15,839
Speaker 3: Water park after it gets shut down?

1024
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 1: That's right. Uh No, Schlitterbond was not wild after it

1025
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: killed all those kids and they had to shut down

1026
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: the best rides. That's right.

1027
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 3: That's what they mean by wet and wild. Yeah, the

1028
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 3: wet and kids die here. Great, Yeah, yeah, yeah when

1029
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:35,399
Speaker 3: kids here. Not enough people know about Schlitterbond. Look, it's

1030
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 3: a water park outside of Austin that you can drink

1031
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 3: as much as you want on the Lazy River and

1032
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 3: only occasionally do kids drown at it. That's a good water.

1033
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 1: Park, only occasionally. Yeah, that's a great This has been

1034
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 1: a paid ad for slitter Bond water park that doesn't

1035
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: kill most of the kids who go there. Five stars,

1036
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: all right, dah, and we're back. So Jack, you know,

1037
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: decides to stay. And he is a good employee. He

1038
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,760
Speaker 1: gets promoted fairly quickly. He's an effective a relatively effective

1039
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 1: manager for the most part. But he was not a

1040
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 1: perfect employee, and he made a number of what you

1041
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 1: might call booboos early on in his career, as this

1042
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 1: passage from David Gells's book makes clear. One day in

1043
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three, Welch was at his office in Pittsfield,

1044
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 1: overlooking the factory on Plastics Avenue. Having risen to become

1045
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 1: a manager charged with developing a new plastic, Welch was

1046
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:44,839
Speaker 1: impatient to bring a product to market and had been

1047
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 1: driving his team to move faster, run more experiments, whatever

1048
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: it took. As Welch sat at his desk and explosion

1049
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 1: rocked the factory, Debris and broken glass littered the scene

1050
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: as smoke shrouded the building. Somehow no one was badly injured,

1051
00:53:57,719 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: but it soon became clear that Welch is head of

1052
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: the plant and the one pushing his team so hard

1053
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 1: pore responsibility for the disaster, Pressuring employees to innovate. Welch

1054
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 1: had them experimenting with an untested process, moving oxygen through

1055
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: a highly vollile solution in a large tank. Something caused

1056
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 1: a spark, setting off the explosion, and yeah, he blows

1057
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: up his first factory.

1058
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 4: And it is Daniel Plainview is going.

1059
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: On in his autobiography. He just writes that, like, we

1060
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 1: were doing an experiment, and you know, it's just one

1061
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 1: of these things that happened the factory. You know, there

1062
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 1: was an explosion and it was no one's fault, but

1063
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: it was my fault because I'm the manager, and you know,

1064
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 1: the manager, you got to take He frames it as like,

1065
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 1: I'll say it's my fault because as the manager, the

1066
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 1: buck stops with me, and the reality is, well, you

1067
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 1: you ordered them to do something dangerous and irresponsible and

1068
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 1: an explosion occurred. It was your fault because all.

1069
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 3: Cover for you. I'll take the heat for this one off.

1070
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love like, yeah, the opportunism of turning that

1071
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 4: scenario into like I'm falling on my sword here is

1072
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 4: exactly precisely why he does well in business, and he's

1073
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 4: it's deplorable. Yeah, it's horrible human.

1074
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 3: My gut is telling me I am not responsible for this.

1075
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1076
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:18,359
Speaker 3: It's what my gut says. I don't know.

1077
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: It's like fucking several driving your Lexus through a fucking

1078
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 1: crosswalk and hitting a bunch of kids and being like,

1079
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 1: all right, this is clearly a mistake. But you know what, kids,

1080
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: I'll take the fall for this one. I'm the adult

1081
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 1: in this situation. You know, I'll take the blame on

1082
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:37,919
Speaker 1: this one.

1083
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 4: It's like, literally, I think you should leave. Yeah, it's

1084
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 4: the hot dogs.

1085
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're all trying to find the guy who did

1086
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 1: this very very funny. Jack Welch blows up his first factory.

1087
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 1: Now Mom walks in grabs him by the collar. Stop

1088
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 1: blowing up factories. I'm not an on I never did.

1089
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 1: I'm not a hiring people guy. I think that's generally

1090
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 1: best avoided. But I would say, if one of my subordinates,

1091
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 1: you know here at cool Zone blew up a factory

1092
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: that we, you know, made podcasts out of, I would

1093
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:18,280
Speaker 1: I would probably impose consequences on them. But Jack Head, really,

1094
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,720
Speaker 1: what are you talking about here? You know the factory, Sophie.

1095
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 1: Have I not told you about the factory?

1096
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 2: I talked about the factory.

1097
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 4: But which employer are we referring to?

1098
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: That's my question. It's the it's the it's the arms

1099
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 1: company that we use cool Zone as a shell to

1100
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:39,800
Speaker 1: a to ah. We're on air ship artillery primers through anyway,

1101
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 1: we don't need to talk about that. So Jack suffers

1102
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 1: no consequences for blowing up this factory. Again, Ge is

1103
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 1: like a ridiculously paternalistic company at this point, and his

1104
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: bosses are like, hey, failure is a part of life,

1105
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 1: Jackie boy, you know, just don't blow up another factory

1106
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: and everything's fine, and honestly, to their credit, this works

1107
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 1: out well for them financially because the next thing that

1108
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 1: he does is he convinces his bosses to invest in

1109
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 1: a new factory which created a plastic called Noural. Now

1110
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:13,799
Speaker 1: he convinces it to do this before Noural is a

1111
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 1: functional product. In fact, the plastic in its first form

1112
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: was too brittle to work. But Jack told his chemists,

1113
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 1: find a way to make this not be a terrible mistake,

1114
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 1: and they do somehow, and the boy did it well

1115
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: as many factories as it takes. So Jack gets promoted

1116
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 1: to head the company's plastics division at thirty two, and

1117
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 1: he becomes GE's youngest general manager. This promotion brings him

1118
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: stock options for the first time, and over the coming

1119
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: years he started to develop an obsession with stock price,

1120
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: one that overwhelmed any interest he had in the actual

1121
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: products that his employees were making. Despite the fact that

1122
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: his hard working scientists had been the ones to turn

1123
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 1: Neural from another failure into a hit, Jack had no

1124
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 1: loyalty to them or to anyone else who worked at GE,

1125
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 1: and in fact, he grew increasingly frustrated with the paternalistic

1126
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 1: nature of the company. With the understanding that it showed

1127
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: its employees, which again is the only reason he wasn't

1128
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: shitcanned for blowing up that factory. Now, the CEO of

1129
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 1: GE at this time was an Englishman named Reg Jones,

1130
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 1: who was some people will say, like one of the

1131
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 1: most if not the most respected CEOs in the country

1132
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 1: at that point. He was apparently good. I mean, the

1133
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: GE increased steadily in value during the time that he

1134
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 1: was there, and he was he was kind of notably

1135
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: the kind of CEO that doesn't exist anymore. He lived

1136
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 1: in like a normal person house. He made two hundred

1137
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: grand a year, which was more money in the nineteen seventies,

1138
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: but like nothing close to what executives make these days, right,

1139
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 1: like that, not even in the same ballpark of like

1140
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 1: a modern the ceo the salary of like the CEO

1141
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: of GE today, or the CEO of a company that

1142
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 1: you know was like gee.

1143
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 3: Who could easily afford a ballpark for example.

1144
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, for example. He was also kind of famous for

1145
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: like whenever he would find out about like employees suffering

1146
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 1: deaths in the family, he wouldn't just like send them

1147
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 1: a letter or whatever, Like, he would devote company resources

1148
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 1: to helping people, you know, pay for funerals and deal

1149
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 1: with grieving. Like he was generally seen as a pretty

1150
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 1: nice guy. But Reg also was kind of as the

1151
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies rolled along. As we all remember from I

1152
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 1: don't know, high school history class, that's where you get

1153
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 1: your stagnation and your inflation, and you get your stagflation,

1154
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: and the economy is not doing so great. Japan and

1155
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 1: Germany are both kind of rising as industrial powers, and

1156
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 1: it turns out that they make better products than a

1157
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 1: lot of American companies. So people are starting to the

1158
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 1: US economy is starting to, like this kind of golden

1159
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 1: age of capitalism is starting to sort of like get jankier.

1160
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 1: You know, we can kind of see the Reagan era

1161
00:59:56,000 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 1: heading towards us very quickly in the mirror. It's it's

1162
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 1: it's and Reg was intelligent enough to see this coming.

1163
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 1: He knew the economy was changing, and so in nineteen

1164
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 1: seventy seven he starts the process of finding the guy

1165
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 1: who's going to replace him. You know, it takes a

1166
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 1: couple of years, and when he's given a list of

1167
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 1: like the short list of executives being considered to take

1168
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 1: over his job, he sees that Jack Welch isn't on

1169
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 1: there because no one likes Jack. He's an asshole. But

1170
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: Reg is like, I think you know, Jack is you know,

1171
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 1: someone who thinks differently than everyone else at the company.

1172
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 3: But he blew up that factory factory.

1173
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: What the story you'll get? And this is kind of

1174
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 1: a mystery. No one really knows why Reg picks him.

1175
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:42,600
Speaker 1: But Reg is like, I don't know, maybe this Probably

1176
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 1: the most likely thing is that REGs like, this guy's

1177
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 1: an asshole. The economy is getting worse. Maybe we need

1178
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 1: a piece of shit to run the company during this

1179
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 1: period of time.

1180
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 3: Hard to say, but Ivana Guet talks about money River,

1181
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 3: which is just I do think it's really true that

1182
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 3: many times people who become insanely wealthy and powerful, it

1183
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 3: really boils down to a moment where someone who is

1184
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,919
Speaker 3: already insanely wealthy and powerful before them went, I don't

1185
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 3: know you like you're set now that's that?

1186
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, And this is about to be that moment for Jack.

1187
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 1: So he's put on this short list. And basically the

1188
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 1: way GE does this is once they've got this kind

1189
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 1: of shortlist together, for the next couple of years, Jack

1190
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: and all of the other guys considered for the job

1191
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 1: are told, hey, we're watching you to see if you're

1192
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: good enough to be to CEO. You know, do your

1193
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 1: fucking best, and they give them new responsibilities to kind

1194
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 1: of see what they can handle and judge them. So

1195
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 1: most of his competitors for the job focused on either

1196
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 1: maintaining profits and you know, keeping a steady rate of

1197
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: increase in profits at whatever divisions they were running, or

1198
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 1: at shepherding new research into production in the hopes that

1199
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 1: it would be a new big business for Ge and

1200
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 1: it would look good for them. Jack knew that that

1201
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 1: shit either didn't look impressive right, just kind of maintaining

1202
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 1: profit and that a division isn't easy to rag about

1203
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 1: in this kind of a competition, or it took too

1204
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 1: long right. New research, as he knows, is risky sometimes

1205
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 1: the factory explodes. He doesn't want to take that risk.

1206
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 1: But he had a faster, dumber way of increasing profits

1207
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: mass layoffs. So this was not really a thing for

1208
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 1: American businesses at this point. Obviously, sometimes people get fired.

1209
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: Sometimes you got to lay people off because the company's

1210
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: not working right, Like it was a thing that maybe

1211
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 1: people would get laid off of a business failed. Sure,

1212
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 1: but the idea that a company that is profitable and

1213
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 1: even though the economy is more challenging right now, GE

1214
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: is profitable. GE is making a shitload of money. The

1215
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 1: idea that a company is profitable as GE would fire

1216
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:45,960
Speaker 1: a shitload of employees just to improve their margins. That

1217
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 1: didn't happen at this period of time in American capitalism.

1218
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 1: Jack is like, what if we did that? So this

1219
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 1: is my idea. Yeah, this is what I leave the

1220
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 1: human race. You're welcome firing people there for no reason.

1221
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 1: Did this guy create like the rank and yank thing.

1222
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 1: That's exactly where we're headed, buddy, Holy yeah, yeah, I

1223
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 1: don't want to get ahead of ourselves though. So GE

1224
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 1: operated a massive complex in Louisville, Kentucky called Appliants Park.

1225
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 1: It was this is such a big factory kind of

1226
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 1: complex that it has its own zip code. It was

1227
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 1: very profitable, and it also like kind of supported the

1228
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 1: whole city, right, Like a huge amount of Louisville's economy

1229
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 1: is people who work at Appliants Park, right, It's what

1230
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 1: keeps the city alive kind of effectively in this period,

1231
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 1: Jack didn't think it was profitable enough. Though, Again it's profitable.

1232
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,479
Speaker 1: He just doesn't think it's profitable enough, so he shit

1233
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 1: cans a huge percentage of the workforce, gutting a huge

1234
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: chunk of the economy in Louisville, but making a short

1235
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 1: term like stockbump for Ge right, because cutting all of this,

1236
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: all this salary and benefits and stuff, looks good on

1237
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 1: the balance and that makes the shareholders happy. His colleagues

1238
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 1: celebrated his courage in doing this. David Gel's writes quote

1239
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 1: layoff spread to other divisions as well. Welch amassed more responsibility,

1240
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:15,440
Speaker 1: and as he toured GE's facilities around the country, he

1241
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:17,919
Speaker 1: took the opportunity to remind the rank and file who

1242
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 1: was now in charge. In Cleveland, at the light bulb factory,

1243
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 1: he berated a manager for the relative high costs of

1244
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 1: GE's bulbs, screaming that competitors in communist Europe made similar

1245
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 1: products for half the price. In Bridgeport, Connecticut, he tore

1246
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: into another executive when he stepped on and off one

1247
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 1: of the company's new digital bathroom scales and it came

1248
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:38,080
Speaker 1: back with different results. When he met a manager who

1249
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: failed to impress, he would snap, what the fuck do

1250
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 1: I pay you for? Beyond being an unsentimental cost cutter,

1251
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 1: someone who was willing to lay off a few hundred

1252
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 1: workers to meet a quarterly earnings target. Welch had never

1253
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:52,360
Speaker 1: outgrown his adolescent temper. And I find that really interesting

1254
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 1: the light bulb story, because the kind of broad story

1255
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:58,600
Speaker 1: you get about the Cold War is like, yeah, capitalism

1256
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: went up against communism and communism lost, and it's like, well,

1257
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 1: the United States went up against the Soviet Union and

1258
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 1: all of our sundry satellites and the Soviet Union collapsed.

1259
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 1: But a big part of what was happening in that

1260
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:16,960
Speaker 1: period is the United States economy boomed in part because

1261
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 1: it adopted a number of socialist policies, even at the

1262
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,919
Speaker 1: corporate level, welfare capitalism, right, That was a big part

1263
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 1: of what made the US economy work during that period

1264
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 1: of time. But the whole time there were guys like

1265
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: Welch who were like, you know, instead of not looking

1266
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:33,080
Speaker 1: at like the shitty quality of a lot of products

1267
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 1: produced in communist countries and being like, boy, capitalism makes

1268
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:38,840
Speaker 1: much better products, looking at them and going, man, if

1269
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 1: we made shit like that, we could save a lot

1270
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 1: of money that we could then man to rich people,

1271
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 1: which is where we are now.

1272
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 3: It's the banal tragedy. I totally get this guy through

1273
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 3: and through because he's the guy we have now still

1274
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 3: to this day. Yeah, and it is. It's actually chilling

1275
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 3: to think of that open ended answer. Uh yeah, we're profitable,

1276
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 3: but are we profitable enough?

1277
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 2: Well?

1278
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 4: How much is enough?

1279
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:08,479
Speaker 3: Man, is a scary place we're going again.

1280
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:11,840
Speaker 1: It's not like, because this is always like the fucking

1281
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 1: hard nosed capitalism is the best. People are like, well,

1282
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 1: what we should just have a You should just pay

1283
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 1: people for a failing business. You know that you can't

1284
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 1: do that. It's like, look, these are hard decisions, but

1285
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 1: they have to be made. You can't just give you know,

1286
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 1: this is a business, not a charity. No. No, G's

1287
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 1: light bulb business was profitable. It was making money. He

1288
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:29,520
Speaker 1: just wanted to make shittier, cheaper light bulbs so that

1289
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 1: more money could go to the forty people at the

1290
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 1: very top of things. And he was willing to destroy

1291
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:37,040
Speaker 1: the city of Louisville in order to do this.

1292
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:43,760
Speaker 4: I wonder if went on his deathbed like, this guy's dead. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1293
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 4: he's dead as shit, but very recently yeah, okay, so

1294
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 4: I wonder I do think it was a painful death.

1295
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:54,240
Speaker 4: Oh well there's that. Yeah. Uh, I wonder on his

1296
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 4: deathbed if he was just like he like looked into

1297
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 4: someone's eyes and was like, was I a cartoon character?

1298
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 1: It is? I'm We'll talk a little bit about how

1299
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:11,320
Speaker 1: Jack handled imminent death, abe, because it's even funnier than that.

1300
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 1: So Jack was obsessed with a small, relatively unappreciated part

1301
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 1: of the company, GE Credit Corp. The company finance division.

1302
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:24,080
Speaker 1: And this was like a small It was created basically

1303
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 1: to like let customers like finance purchases, right, Like you're

1304
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:30,440
Speaker 1: buying a washing machine that's expensive, you can't pay it

1305
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:32,440
Speaker 1: all up front, so you finance it with the company, right.

1306
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 1: But what Jack realized is that like the company could

1307
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 1: be doing a lot more with its finance division, because

1308
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:42,760
Speaker 1: a corporate finance division when you've got a company as

1309
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 1: big as GE could have with it and with as

1310
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 1: good a credit writing as G because GE is like

1311
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 1: triple A, right, like it's the best company in the country.

1312
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:53,200
Speaker 1: Pretty much like they've got that anyone will lend to them,

1313
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 1: which meant that GE's finance division could operate as a bank,

1314
01:07:57,360 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 1: like an unlicensed bank. So he starts spanning it and

1315
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 1: offering mortgages and private credit cards and investing in other

1316
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 1: companies and buying other companies. And it's one of those

1317
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:11,160
Speaker 1: things where he's like in his autobiography when he kind

1318
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 1: of realizes that he could use this as an unlicensed bank.

1319
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 1: He writes, compared to the industrial operations, I did know

1320
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:20,200
Speaker 1: this business seemed an easy way to make money. You

1321
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:22,400
Speaker 1: didn't have to invest heavily in R and D, build

1322
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 1: factories and bend metal. It's like making shits hard and risky. Yeah.

1323
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:31,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, with every step we just go. But if money's

1324
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 3: just math and it's just abstract, if we took this

1325
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 3: percentage into this percentage, the money would just make money.

1326
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:39,880
Speaker 3: And now we're at a point where I don't I

1327
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:41,760
Speaker 3: just think if you think that way, I'm like, yeah,

1328
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:44,720
Speaker 3: you don't understand what life is for. You're not engaging

1329
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 3: with the universe.

1330
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 1: No, And we like you're not again, you're not a

1331
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:50,240
Speaker 1: person that we need to have in the world, right

1332
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 1: because ge again not to like why again g He

1333
01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 1: was heavily involved in the military industrial complex, but outside

1334
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 1: of that, it like it made things that objectively would

1335
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:02,080
Speaker 1: be necessary in any society. It made light bulbs that worked, Right,

1336
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 1: that's a value to society. Having light bulbs that function.

1337
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,600
Speaker 1: It made washing machines and dryers that worked, that's a

1338
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:12,360
Speaker 1: value to society. Jack is like, what if we made

1339
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 1: payday loans? Like, what if we created ways to just

1340
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 1: like make interest money off of people? And we'll talk

1341
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:22,960
Speaker 1: about the other fucky things he does with this bank

1342
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 1: because it's his primary instrument for like making GE a

1343
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:30,960
Speaker 1: quote unquote success in his eyes. But we're I'm getting

1344
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 1: ahead of myself yet again. So the late seventies, things

1345
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:36,599
Speaker 1: keep getting worse for the American economy. You know, obviously

1346
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:40,360
Speaker 1: inflation is pretty brutal this period of time. You know,

1347
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 1: GE is again still making a profit. They are sailing

1348
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:48,960
Speaker 1: kind of through these stormy waters. But the profit isn't enough,

1349
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:51,000
Speaker 1: right Jack see's the one and a half billion a

1350
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 1: year that the company is netting as brutally insufficient.

1351
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 3: It's never enough for his trained daddy to come home

1352
01:09:57,920 --> 01:09:58,479
Speaker 3: and hug him.

1353
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 1: He will, yeah, exactly what he It will make his

1354
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:03,599
Speaker 1: dad not have worked himself half to death at the train.

1355
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:08,880
Speaker 1: So during this period, while Jack is kind of competing

1356
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:12,720
Speaker 1: to be the new CEO, there's a new attitude developing

1357
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:16,719
Speaker 1: in the American business community about how capitalism ought to function.

1358
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:20,360
Speaker 1: The death knell of the Golden Age of capitalism was

1359
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 1: heralded by books about business that started to get really popular,

1360
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 1: like In Search of Excellence by Thomas Peters and Robert

1361
01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:31,920
Speaker 1: Waterman Junior. And this is this is an interesting idea

1362
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:36,000
Speaker 1: because business historian Lewis Hyman describes kind of the central

1363
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 1: message of In Search of Excellence as you don't really

1364
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:41,120
Speaker 1: need all these workers. You should be able to buy

1365
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 1: what you need from the market. You don't need to

1366
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:46,920
Speaker 1: have these big corporations. You can get by without job security. Now.

1367
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:49,639
Speaker 1: One of the authors of this book is a partner

1368
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:55,839
Speaker 1: at Mackenzie, our old buddy, Pete Bodagig's former employer. Yeah,

1369
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 1: In Search of Excellence is the other author is like

1370
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:01,799
Speaker 1: the guy who basic kind of guts the old Hewlett

1371
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:05,000
Speaker 1: Packard to build the new one. And these are these

1372
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:08,040
Speaker 1: are guys, these are MBA's right, they're not engineering guys.

1373
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:11,240
Speaker 1: At firms like Hewlett Packard and like ge, a lot

1374
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:14,400
Speaker 1: of the people running it had been engineers previously. It's

1375
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:16,840
Speaker 1: the same with companies like Lockheed, but in this period

1376
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:19,880
Speaker 1: they're being replaced by guys who just know like business,

1377
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:22,360
Speaker 1: and these are guys who are they're obsessed with like

1378
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:25,720
Speaker 1: concepts like kaisen from Japan, which is like a manufacturing

1379
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:29,840
Speaker 1: concept that they kind of often misunderstand and misapply. They're

1380
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 1: they're they're trend seekers, right, Like they see companies succeeding

1381
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:35,360
Speaker 1: and they're like, what are they doing? Like how can

1382
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:37,760
Speaker 1: we copy it? Part of how what they copy is

1383
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:41,840
Speaker 1: this kind of like manic, insane work culture that is,

1384
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:44,400
Speaker 1: you know, prevalent in places like Japan. What they're not

1385
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:47,479
Speaker 1: going to copy is like, you know, these Japanese companies

1386
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:51,240
Speaker 1: whose workers are like working themselves half to death produce excellent,

1387
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:54,799
Speaker 1: reliable products. That's not necessary, right, Like we don't actually

1388
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 1: need to make good cars. We can we can if

1389
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:01,080
Speaker 1: we make our workers work that hard and produce cheap shit,

1390
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:03,400
Speaker 1: will make even more money. Right. That's a big part

1391
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:07,960
Speaker 1: of the management philosophy, especially in search of excellence. Pushes

1392
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:08,400
Speaker 1: if you're.

1393
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 3: Still loyal to American products, which of course patriotism was. Yeah,

1394
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:16,600
Speaker 3: I would say more prevalent than or like extreme, the

1395
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:18,760
Speaker 3: point being, now your ship breaks down, you got to

1396
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:21,320
Speaker 3: buy it twice as fast, exactly, like it works all

1397
01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:22,720
Speaker 3: around just me.

1398
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, as opposed to like, I don't know Toyota, whose

1399
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:29,800
Speaker 1: philosophy is we will make a car that will outlive humanity.

1400
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:31,200
Speaker 3: Right speak at your funeral.

1401
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 1: Yeah it more but back then, you know.

1402
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:39,160
Speaker 4: But think of the yachts. Yeah, Robert, think.

1403
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 1: Of the yachts.

1404
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:41,920
Speaker 3: When you hang yourself using your fifty year old pair

1405
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:44,439
Speaker 3: of Levi's jeans, your car will be there.

1406
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:49,640
Speaker 1: So another popular book that kind of helped set up

1407
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:53,840
Speaker 1: the next age of American capitalism was Future Shock. The

1408
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:58,000
Speaker 1: author I got named powered Alvin Toffler. Again, I'm going

1409
01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:02,719
Speaker 1: to actually quote from that that business story in Lewis Hyman.

1410
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:06,559
Speaker 1: Here the author basically invinces the idea of project management

1411
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:08,760
Speaker 1: and talks about a future where there's no stability and

1412
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 1: no security. It's a blueprint for work under neoliberalism, and

1413
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:14,519
Speaker 1: it's everywhere. It's a best seller. There's lots of these

1414
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:17,680
Speaker 1: popularizers that bring ideas about workplace and security into a

1415
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 1: kind of connection with rethinking what the corporation is after

1416
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies. And perhaps the single most important of

1417
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:28,360
Speaker 1: these kind of apostles of this new age of capitalism

1418
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:32,920
Speaker 1: is a guy named Milton Friedman. Now that's a name

1419
01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:35,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to guess most people have at least heard right.

1420
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 1: He's kind of like the dude behind the Chicago School

1421
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:43,760
Speaker 1: of Economics. He is an economist himself. He's extremely influential.

1422
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:45,559
Speaker 1: And one of the things that Friedman argues is that

1423
01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:49,720
Speaker 1: social welfare programs are not like a responsible thing for

1424
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 1: a society to invest in, specifically particularly if they're using

1425
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:57,080
Speaker 1: tax dollars from companies and from rich people to fund

1426
01:13:57,080 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 1: these programs. He rails against the idea that corporations have

1427
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:05,400
Speaker 1: any responsibility to society or to its their employees. In

1428
01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:09,599
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, Freedman rights, the social responsibility of business is

1429
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:12,800
Speaker 1: to increase its profits. What does it mean to say

1430
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:17,759
Speaker 1: that business has responsibilities? Only people can have responsibilities. Businessmen

1431
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:20,680
Speaker 1: who talk this way are unwitting puppets of the intellectual

1432
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:23,120
Speaker 1: forces that have been undermining the basis of a free

1433
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:24,759
Speaker 1: society these past decades.

1434
01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:28,120
Speaker 3: And then we've evolved that to the point where we

1435
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:30,880
Speaker 3: just go or you could just say corporations are people,

1436
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:34,639
Speaker 3: even though that's like saying two plus two equals five,

1437
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:36,320
Speaker 3: or an umbrella is alive.

1438
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:41,519
Speaker 1: But okay, well, now Michael, umbrellas are alive. Yeah, so

1439
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:44,719
Speaker 1: bad example, And every time you close them, they die.

1440
01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:47,639
Speaker 1: So it's like drawing a katana, right, Like you have

1441
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:51,320
Speaker 1: to know that you have to commit to that umbrella

1442
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:53,360
Speaker 1: if you're going to open it, because you're taking a life.

1443
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:58,519
Speaker 1: So sure that this is the only thing I believe spiritually.

1444
01:14:58,120 --> 01:15:01,000
Speaker 4: So think about that next time raised.

1445
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:04,800
Speaker 1: This is what you're taught as an Episcopalian. That's all

1446
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:08,800
Speaker 1: I remember from Sunday School. This is a weeping man

1447
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:12,400
Speaker 1: screaming at me never to use an I'm going to

1448
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:12,800
Speaker 1: think of it.

1449
01:15:12,840 --> 01:15:13,719
Speaker 4: That was a bus stop.

1450
01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:20,680
Speaker 1: But so, in Friedman's eyes, the only responsibility corporations have

1451
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:25,400
Speaker 1: is to maximize shareholder value. Any sacrifice necessary to achieve

1452
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:28,400
Speaker 1: this end is acceptable. Now this is a little bit

1453
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:30,719
Speaker 1: of an aside, but one of the people that Friedman

1454
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:34,280
Speaker 1: had the biggest influence on is a Chilean politician named

1455
01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:38,960
Speaker 1: Augusto Pinochet. Right, so, Friedman gives a bunch of and

1456
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:41,280
Speaker 1: a bunch of Chicago School economists are kind of brought

1457
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 1: in by Pinochet in order to give him advice. Once

1458
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:47,960
Speaker 1: he takes over the country by murdering it's elect democratically

1459
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:52,280
Speaker 1: elected leader. With the backing of the CIA, Pinochet dismantles

1460
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 1: Chile's public properties, he auctions off state businesses to the

1461
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:59,959
Speaker 1: highest bidder, and he kills every environmental and financial regulation

1462
01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:03,439
Speaker 1: in the country. This creates in the short term, massive

1463
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:06,040
Speaker 1: wealth for a small number of people, but it also

1464
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:09,719
Speaker 1: leads to de industrialization that by the early nineteen eighties

1465
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:12,439
Speaker 1: had caused unemployment in the country to increase to ten

1466
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:16,240
Speaker 1: times its pre Pinochet rate. By nineteen eighty two, Pinochet

1467
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:19,040
Speaker 1: had been forced to fire his Chicago School advisors and

1468
01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 1: renationalize several of the financial institutions he deregulated. In other words,

1469
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:26,760
Speaker 1: the what we know from the example of Chile is

1470
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:30,640
Speaker 1: that following these kind of economic policies that Friedman is

1471
01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:33,639
Speaker 1: advocating that Jack Welch is reading about in these books

1472
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 1: and falling in love with makes a shitload of money

1473
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:41,040
Speaker 1: for a while, and then it leaves your economy hollowed

1474
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:45,400
Speaker 1: out and unable to survive and causes like massive social

1475
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:47,000
Speaker 1: and economic disasters.

1476
01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:49,559
Speaker 3: And it's crazy that these people think that they're fucking

1477
01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:52,360
Speaker 3: geniuses because they can turn money into more money.

1478
01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 4: Because they sure credit.

1479
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:56,720
Speaker 3: But they can't see that, Yeah, if you strip mine

1480
01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:58,800
Speaker 3: the mountain, then you don't have the mountain, or like

1481
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:01,160
Speaker 3: if you burn the hole for there's no force, you

1482
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:03,560
Speaker 3: fucking idiot, Like, is this not obvious?

1483
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:06,120
Speaker 1: It'd be like if I was like, look, you know,

1484
01:17:06,240 --> 01:17:08,320
Speaker 1: I have a new idea for a business where I

1485
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:12,120
Speaker 1: can provide functional organs to people who need them. And

1486
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:15,640
Speaker 1: because doctors and nurses are already in hospitals, I'm just

1487
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:18,320
Speaker 1: having men with guns kill them and take their organs.

1488
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:21,240
Speaker 1: In the short term, you can probably make a lot

1489
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:24,600
Speaker 1: of money, sit out huge business, but very quickly you

1490
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:27,480
Speaker 1: run out of people who can put those organs and bodies.

1491
01:17:27,680 --> 01:17:30,320
Speaker 3: And I do believe truly in my heart that with

1492
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:33,920
Speaker 3: many of these people, their inner thought about that is

1493
01:17:34,240 --> 01:17:37,200
Speaker 3: I will be dead before then, so yes, doesn't matter.

1494
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:39,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think their inner thought is more just like

1495
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:42,080
Speaker 1: the droning of a dial toned like that's all that

1496
01:17:42,200 --> 01:17:43,720
Speaker 1: ghosts on. They just do what they do.

1497
01:17:44,280 --> 01:17:47,120
Speaker 3: Jack Welch, Yeah, I actually believe it's an addiction of

1498
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:47,599
Speaker 3: some kind.

1499
01:17:47,680 --> 01:17:49,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, I think there's Yeah. I think

1500
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:52,040
Speaker 1: I think all of the things we're talking about are

1501
01:17:52,080 --> 01:17:55,519
Speaker 1: true or just compulsions. So, just as Chile is teetering

1502
01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:59,240
Speaker 1: towards the brink of economic collapse thanks to its freedmanlike policies,

1503
01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:02,360
Speaker 1: Freedman disciple Jack Welch was picked to be the new

1504
01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:07,040
Speaker 1: CEO of General Electric. His colleagues reported shock and sometimes

1505
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:09,840
Speaker 1: horror at this decision, but Regg Jones had made his

1506
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:12,639
Speaker 1: selection and there was no going back now, although an

1507
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 1: event that occurred right before the transfers power certainly gave

1508
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:19,920
Speaker 1: him second thoughts David Gel's writes. Five weeks before Welch

1509
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:22,080
Speaker 1: officially took over, Jones threw him a party at the

1510
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:25,679
Speaker 1: Helmsley Palace, an upscale hotel in New York City. Among

1511
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:28,120
Speaker 1: the sixty or so guests were CEOs for many of

1512
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:31,040
Speaker 1: the nation's largest companies. As the night wore on, Welsh

1513
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:33,280
Speaker 1: had a bit too much to drink. When Jones asked

1514
01:18:33,320 --> 01:18:35,479
Speaker 1: him to address the crowd, Welch couldn't get through his

1515
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:38,800
Speaker 1: remarks without slurring his words. Back at GE headquarters the

1516
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:41,920
Speaker 1: next morning, Jones stormed into Welch's office. I've never been

1517
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:45,160
Speaker 1: so humiliated in my life, he told Welch, you embarrassed

1518
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:48,040
Speaker 1: me in the company. Welch was terrified that this might

1519
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:50,960
Speaker 1: cost him the job, but yet again he avoided any

1520
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:54,479
Speaker 1: accountability for his actions. Jones went through with his decision,

1521
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:57,679
Speaker 1: and right before the final transfer of power. He invited

1522
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:01,160
Speaker 1: Welch into his office. Jack said, I give you the

1523
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:05,639
Speaker 1: Queen Mary. This is designed not to sink. Jack, without

1524
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:09,000
Speaker 1: even taking a second to think, immediately replied, I don't

1525
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 1: want the Queen Mary. I plan to blow up the

1526
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:18,000
Speaker 1: Queen Mary. I want speedboats.

1527
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:20,600
Speaker 3: I want to shoot at Tesla to the moon with

1528
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:23,400
Speaker 3: a fucking mannequin in it for social media cloud. That's

1529
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:24,000
Speaker 3: what I want.

1530
01:19:24,040 --> 01:19:26,720
Speaker 4: That's who I am. And then we're thumbed up and

1531
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:29,080
Speaker 4: then high fived, and then we flew out of there

1532
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 4: on our fucking spaceship.

1533
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:33,280
Speaker 3: Then we just threw up piles of money, and then

1534
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:35,599
Speaker 3: we ate the money that we threw up the air.

1535
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:39,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. What I what I love about this, What I

1536
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:42,240
Speaker 1: love about this is that like if we're if we're

1537
01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:46,800
Speaker 1: following this, this this metaphor right logically, Okay, the Queen

1538
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:49,479
Speaker 1: Mary is the boat that we are all on. And

1539
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 1: if you blow up the boat that we're on and

1540
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:54,240
Speaker 1: then you replace it with speedboats, well only a few

1541
01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:57,320
Speaker 1: of us can fit on the speedboats and everyone else dies. Yeah,

1542
01:19:57,320 --> 01:20:02,120
Speaker 1: it is. It is actually a very good analogy. He's

1543
01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:04,800
Speaker 1: doing a Titanic, but he's like, wow, the Titanic really

1544
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:08,360
Speaker 1: created a lot of value for the survivors that made it.

1545
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:14,640
Speaker 4: There's a supplying demand's structure rehaul, you know, during the

1546
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:16,440
Speaker 4: sinking of the Titanic.

1547
01:20:16,840 --> 01:20:20,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. It is such a piece of ship.

1548
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:23,439
Speaker 1: He's I just what a reminder like we have. We're

1549
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:26,400
Speaker 1: barely getting started. This is the end of part one.

1550
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:29,320
Speaker 1: But boy, howdy does it get a lot worse. But

1551
01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:33,760
Speaker 1: you know what doesn't get worse, you guys, you just

1552
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 1: get better with a like a fine salami.

1553
01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:40,280
Speaker 4: I tell myself that every day.

1554
01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:41,880
Speaker 3: I tell my fine salami that.

1555
01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys want to plug anything?

1556
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:48,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was That was the cue to plug your

1557
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:49,639
Speaker 2: plug plug.

1558
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:51,639
Speaker 3: We did it at the top.

1559
01:20:51,880 --> 01:20:52,799
Speaker 4: You double plug.

1560
01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:55,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you get to double plug. We only let

1561
01:20:55,479 --> 01:20:57,600
Speaker 1: our We only learn our real friends, do they?

1562
01:20:57,720 --> 01:21:01,320
Speaker 3: Well, speaking of double plug in our fine salami, we're

1563
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:04,720
Speaker 3: doing a movie about the complex proposition.

1564
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:06,040
Speaker 1: Format to be a sex thing.

1565
01:21:06,439 --> 01:21:08,280
Speaker 4: Yes, well that's what I'm saying.

1566
01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:12,000
Speaker 1: Go over to my torrent site right now and find

1567
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:14,719
Speaker 1: double plugging a fine salami right right.

1568
01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:16,800
Speaker 4: On the time, sausage.

1569
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:19,760
Speaker 3: We are doing a movie, as we said at the top,

1570
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:21,599
Speaker 3: but we'll say it again because it's been a bit

1571
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:27,639
Speaker 3: about the complex proposition of formulating your own sexual identity

1572
01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:31,120
Speaker 3: and how everyone's journey in that regard is unique and irreducible.

1573
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:34,920
Speaker 3: And it's called Papa Bear and it's very funny. But

1574
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:37,720
Speaker 3: then in the third act has heart you know, like

1575
01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:40,559
Speaker 3: you know kind of movies I'm talking about. It's one

1576
01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:44,800
Speaker 3: of those poignant coming of age shit. We're really good

1577
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:47,599
Speaker 3: at videos and movies. If you know us and our work,

1578
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:51,080
Speaker 3: you probably already know that. If you're interested in finding

1579
01:21:51,080 --> 01:21:53,519
Speaker 3: out more about the project, it's over at seed and

1580
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:57,840
Speaker 3: spark dot com, slash fund, slash Papa hyphen Bear.

1581
01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:00,360
Speaker 4: Thanks so much, thank.

1582
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:04,240
Speaker 1: You, thank you both so much. You can find me

1583
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 1: nowhere because stay away from social media, it's bad for you.

1584
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:11,599
Speaker 1: But you can find my book After the Revolution literally

1585
01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:14,800
Speaker 1: anywhere you can buy books. You like Amazon, you like

1586
01:22:14,840 --> 01:22:18,200
Speaker 1: bookshop dot com or whatever you like going to Barnes

1587
01:22:18,200 --> 01:22:20,720
Speaker 1: and Noble. For some reason, it's everywhere. Go go go

1588
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:21,120
Speaker 1: read it.

1589
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:24,439
Speaker 2: That's the episode.

1590
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:26,360
Speaker 1: That's the episode.

1591
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:31,320
Speaker 2: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1592
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:34,960
Speaker 2: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1593
01:22:35,120 --> 01:22:38,320
Speaker 2: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1594
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:41,519
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts,