1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:01,280 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. 2 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 2: I said, Okay, I'm not I'm not coming to depend 3 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 2: on any body. Hyam Lauren Tiery being my own person, 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 2: Cryan Lauren Kierrie Lee, you know, peed the head and 5 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: call the shots every organization that were involved. From the 6 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 2: time my first step brother died, I was just a 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 2: turn of being leader and from that point I have 8 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 2: I have literally led every single pig of a bitter ball. 9 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast with Buzz Night, 10 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: a podcast that delves into the inside stories of musicians, insiders, 11 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: and media titans. On this episode, one of the most 12 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: influential people in the media business, and in particular the 13 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: radio business, Steve Lherman, led one of the most prestigious 14 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: media law firms in DC Leventhal, Sentener and Lherman. He 15 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: was the general counsel for CBS Radio and he's the 16 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: author of a great new book, The Enchanted Path, My 17 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: Unexpected Journey from Loss to Leadership. Here's Buzz with Steve Lherman. 18 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 3: Well, Steve Lherman, thanks for being on a virtual edition 19 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 3: of Taking a Walk. We like doing them in person, 20 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 3: but we love also technology and it's great to be 21 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 3: connected with you, sir. 22 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 2: As always made it here, Bud. 23 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 3: Congratulations on a beautiful book, The Enchanted Path, My unexpected 24 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 3: journey from loss to leadership really beautifully done. And how 25 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 3: was the process for you in terms of creating this? 26 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: Well, you know that has my career sort of wound 27 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 2: down listen two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, 28 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 2: and stepped down as the general counsel CBS Brady. You know, 29 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 2: I got arts and acting two thousand made you know, 30 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 2: I was a chief legal uncle serve or London and 31 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 2: you made any radio station and Corobin wasn't a great 32 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 2: idea at the time. As I transitioned that to this 33 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 2: woman Joey, and how all of them took my place. 34 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 2: I had spent so much timer math that I write 35 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 2: a lot of time to do things. I went to 36 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: my secretary and share every eat, you know, and I said, well, 37 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 2: you know what you're you know, what should I do? 38 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: But she said, you know you've got all those stories 39 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 2: where maybe you should write a book or something. So 40 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: I started, Uh, it started by the process. I just 41 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 2: started writing down like Vignac's you know, like things that 42 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: happened you know, all over the course and ran lights 43 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 2: and I came up with you know, forty or fifteen things. 44 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 2: And then like every week I would write out of 45 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 2: chap you know, I would just start writing on my computer. 46 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 2: I would just write myself. Essentially, I would write myself 47 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 2: an email. And I wasn't even I wasn't good with 48 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 2: die of introduction and then should turn it into a 49 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: show her that looked like a chapter, and so I 50 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: just started writing, started writing and writing running it and 51 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 2: I and well, in a year and a half, I'm 52 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 2: reading a book. One of the table led to her brother. 53 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 2: And then then I kind of got all these chapters 54 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,839 Speaker 2: and know I needed to find a way to sort 55 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 2: of pull it together. And I hired this company and 56 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: pulled the door or by the name of the Woomsic 57 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 2: Kaden and she's in the drab little book business. She 58 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 2: took the chaplain since she's sort of reurbanin and somebody 59 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 2: even suggests the epilogues and prologues of both the author 60 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 2: and all the stuff that throwing around the book. And 61 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 2: there she finished some books. She got a published by 62 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 2: publish It and then to get on Amazon, and I 63 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: had to hire somebody else in San Antonio, winning by 64 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: the member of Jessica Bross, people who cross ours wrought 65 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 2: four years, you know, to convince it, to actually conduce 66 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: it for both kindo and do a couple of hundred 67 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 2: year coppies on mind that my experience, you know. So 68 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: it's more it's not a retirement plan. That it's not 69 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 2: it's not gonna have fun by ir. It was fun 70 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: to do it. And the most warring thing is that 71 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 2: people who have read it, much to my surprise, actually 72 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 2: got something. I'll you know, like the reviews have been 73 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 2: directed well. 74 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 3: Steve described as you do so well at the beginning 75 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 3: of your book in the chapter which is titled Fathers, 76 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 3: How Profound Loss really shaped you at a young age their. 77 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 2: Right father died twelve years old and was six months 78 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 2: before like Barb Mitchy, I was pretty young, and he'd 79 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: been sick for quite a while. I can keep going 80 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 2: to the hospital to the year, so it's sort of 81 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: the transition from him being sick to the dying. Well, 82 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: it was all as dramatic as let's say, I just 83 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 2: woke up one day and learning dad was going on, 84 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 2: you know, served I knew he kind of knew something 85 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 2: was rumbling, so I felt pretty bad to myself up 86 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 2: and turn. It was an income state experience, and I 87 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: remembered her. Now you know, and you know in the 88 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 2: Jewish religitiu sit shiver, you know, polo south of the 89 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: funeral and people come over, and they'd all come over 90 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 2: and say to me, you know, well now you're the 91 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: man of the house. You know. My mother he married 92 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 2: where I was a freshman in college and he got 93 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 2: a hereditary where I was just senior and need dial 94 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 2: and I remember, and that is that it is even 95 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 2: more impactful because it's like a father that I could 96 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 2: need rate two randsom adults, whereas my father, I was 97 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 2: just a little kid and you were sick belong time, 98 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 2: and so our relationship was let me do my first 99 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 2: step brother. That new screen were impactful. Yeah, I think 100 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: it was. At that point I said, okay, I'm not 101 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 2: I'm not going to depend on any where. I am 102 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 2: lawing to be my own person, crying lawying to you know, 103 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 2: I'm going to beat the head and call the shots. 104 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 2: And every organization and the were involved. Right, I had 105 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 2: this quiet and you may remember him. It's near a 106 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: Staley gold and he was ahead of Roy Disney's Empire, 107 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 2: Share a Lot podcast and Stale. We always used to say, 108 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 2: need all or get out of the way, and I 109 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 2: always remember there it's well, I'm then lead, you know. 110 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 2: And from the time my first step brother died, no, 111 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 2: I would, you know, just a turn being leader. And 112 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 2: from that point I have I have literally led every 113 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 2: single little innovation of a bitter ball. So I quickly 114 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 2: became when I was in the present or of the 115 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 2: senior class, I got into my love word. I became 116 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 2: bothering and men and partner of my locker room, of 117 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: the chair of the board of Active Runs. I run 118 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 2: the scholarship in my training club where I need every 119 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: caring all and I'm just not you know, I'm not 120 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: a backbencher just because I. 121 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 4: Don't want to. 122 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 2: I don't want to lie of anybody. I think that's 123 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 2: the way. That's the principle lesson I you know, and 124 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 2: answered me courtly. That really shaped my outlook on things 125 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 2: in terms of whether I was going to lead, follow, 126 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: or get out of the way. And they want to 127 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 2: get out of the way. So that's it's sort of 128 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 2: shaved my life. In our second surplar Or dying was 129 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 2: tragic too, in a way, it was a valuable lesson. 130 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 3: You write about the joy of watching baseball at this 131 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 3: place we know in our neighborhood called Fenway Park. And 132 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 3: you note the particular fact that there's no clock in baseball. 133 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: Now. 134 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 4: I know. 135 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 3: Recently the rules have changed, so maybe there are some 136 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 3: clocks associated with the game. But in your mind, is 137 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 3: there a metaphor in that line and then that chapter 138 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 3: that there's no clock in baseball? 139 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 2: Well, I think the no clock in baseball. First of all, 140 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 2: it's something my grandfather used to say, you know, I 141 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 2: mean he literally said, at all, no clock in baseball. 142 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 2: And he would take you when we were taking you 143 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 2: to a game and I want to all home, you'd say, 144 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 2: there's no clock in baseball. You know what, all lead 145 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 2: are going to last now? But I think that, I 146 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 2: really think the messaging there is you never give up 147 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 2: until that last out. You just don't give up, you know, 148 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 2: Jesse Jackson has to saying, you know, or at least 149 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 2: it's tributing to Jason nine or until it's over, and 150 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,599 Speaker 2: even even then it ain't or it was kind of 151 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 2: that's the way baseball was. 152 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: It was. 153 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 2: You know, it wasn't like hocked they blew the little horn. 154 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: You know, maybe you had an overturned but then they 155 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,959 Speaker 2: blew the horn again. Many had the set are you know? 156 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 2: So that that's sort of a real I think the 157 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 2: metaphor in there is you gotta fight to me in 158 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 2: until the real end, and the you know in baseball 159 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 2: was only one end and let's three out to the 160 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: end of the last eight whatever that ending may be. 161 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 2: So I guess the other metaphor in there, maybe it is, 162 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 2: you know, you gotta you gotta finish what you start, 163 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: and you gotta believe in miracles, you know, one of 164 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 2: the great comeback, say the Red Sox history. When I'm 165 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 2: actually when I wrote the chapter, I wasn't sure. Now 166 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 2: you know things in your vine, you know, you're number 167 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 2: a hundred percent what it actually happened. So I went back, 168 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 2: you know, great thing about Google, and I checked, and 169 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 2: sure enough it was exactly the way I remembered it. 170 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 2: I remembered that Aglio only grand Slay road run in 171 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 2: the bottom of the rance to tie the game, and 172 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 2: shure enough, it's exactly what happened. So that was kind 173 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 2: of cool that my brain was I could remember back 174 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 2: to that day when it was eleven years old. I 175 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 2: think there's a lot of messages in here I think 176 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 2: that's a good question to ask. You know, it's gonna 177 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 2: from that. And the other coolest thing about that chapter 178 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 2: was the chapter that I wrote about the rote avel 179 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 2: bomb craft. Melcolmson had dispatched me to negotiate this radio 180 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 2: rights deal for WBCN with the Patriots, and I was 181 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:07,599 Speaker 2: very excited, you know, consultant Boston kid and actually negotiating 182 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 2: a radio rights deal and R my team and U 183 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 2: and by then I had done a bunch of that. 184 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 2: I had done the Cowboys and the Needles and bunch 185 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 2: of otherm so I actually knew this area of Wall 186 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 2: pretty well. And Jonathan Kraft, the son of he was 187 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,839 Speaker 2: just carrying learning the business at the time, then on 188 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 2: the phone and said, you know, my dad wants to 189 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 2: know whether you're related to Paul were it's my grandfather there, 190 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 2: and I said yes, I will then really like Jones 191 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,719 Speaker 2: and Craft sitting well in that case, he would like 192 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 2: to talk to himself when he got out on the phone, 193 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,079 Speaker 2: and he told me his story about how my grandfather 194 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 2: would take in Fairway Park and they would sit in 195 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 2: our second row behind the dugout, and my grandfather would 196 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 2: sit there and count the pictures. My grandfather would count 197 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 2: the pictures, run some little silver clicker. At to about 198 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 2: the ninetieth pitch he had started yelling and could dugout, 199 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 2: but then pull the bitch. And he would also tell 200 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 2: them you want to bring in so Craft remembered all that. 201 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 2: Now that was a great you know, look you know, 202 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,719 Speaker 2: and I said, oh, go got my grandfather and you 203 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 2: know at grafts Old and he appreciated me. He warmed 204 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 2: my seat and to try to wait arc basically great 205 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 2: full circle. Right, Yeah, it was really very nice, God 206 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 2: budd very nice. 207 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 3: Weirdly, I know you right with with some reluctance some 208 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 3: of your real world observations and impressions about your mom. 209 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 2: How difficult was that to. 210 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 3: Communicate that? 211 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 2: It was very hard. She such a big garmarylife that 212 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 2: I realized I hadn't put in chapter about I remember 213 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 2: I wrote it like the graph of the chapter, and 214 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: then I decided I wasn't going to use it. And 215 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,719 Speaker 2: then I talked to my sister about it, and my 216 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,439 Speaker 2: sister said, no, no, you got to put it in. 217 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 2: You gotta let it all hang out. And my sister 218 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 2: read the chapter. He said, you know you're on the market, 219 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 2: clean it up. A little bit, and they couldn't more 220 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 2: in depth. My mother was thirty five years old, i'd 221 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 2: think with one my father died, and she didn't have 222 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,959 Speaker 2: she didn't really have a college education, and she never 223 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 2: really worked. But she also, unlike most people who be 224 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 2: that way, she also was really not prepared to be 225 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 2: a mother. He wasn't mothering material like my sister. My 226 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 2: sister said, and I quoted him my book, and you know, 227 00:13:55,240 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 2: essentially we raised ourselves from age twelve and we you 228 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 2: know the thing, we just had to figure it out 229 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 2: and and it was challenging. My remember was well, my 230 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 2: mother was a loveling, rubbling person and everybody had welled her. 231 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 2: She was gracious, she she was honest as the days Laura. 232 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 2: She had great integrity, and as I pointed with the 233 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 2: boll uh, when I got to trouble, she did step 234 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 2: up and kept me out of twelve. She's a very 235 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 2: very beautiful She looked like Grace Kill. I mean literally 236 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 2: people would stop her in the street and asked if 237 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 2: she was Grace Killed. So when I got in trouble, 238 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 2: she would, you know, come to the school a little 239 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 2: and talk to principal and she'd bear eyelash. She said, 240 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 2: he met me while you sent him on very way. 241 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 2: She you know, some kind of little narcissis that can 242 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 2: genus worried more about herself not her kids. It seemed 243 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 2: like anyway, Yeah, you know that was a tricky BULTI 244 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 2: the Watson's writing Sharon Dennie mother my grand Laarrd, who 245 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 2: also write about in the book. He was a force 246 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 2: of nature. She was a single child. She had hip 247 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 2: problems as a kid. I'm sure they made fun of her. 248 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 2: Her name was Bertha, and I'm sure they called her 249 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 2: big Bertha in school. She was a little chubby. She 250 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 2: became beautiful later in life. But a sub chapter to 251 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 2: right so, but I wanted to tell her truth. 252 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more of the Taking a 253 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast. 254 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 3: You right about an early mentor of yours when you 255 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 3: came out of law school, gentleman by the name of 256 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 3: Bob Wilson. I want to pronounce his name right, cal 257 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 3: Cal yep, and how he shaped you in your career. 258 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 3: Can you talk about what Bob means to you to 259 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 3: this day. 260 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 2: Bob was Bob was the first editor that I had 261 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 2: as a lawyer. I mean where I started practicing law. 262 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 2: I was quite shattered in him. He's veried coiplex god 263 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 2: in me in many ways he was. He was smart 264 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 2: as hell. 265 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: He was a. 266 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 2: Pianist, he had been a football player. He was a 267 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 2: real student of American history. He loved the Thoroughbreds. He 268 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 2: was a real handicapper, the third Broods. He was an 269 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: excellent lawyer, means from the arm old writer. He wrote 270 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 2: a book himself, but he was very, very challenged and 271 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 2: top I talked about one. Well, there were actually two 272 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 2: stories in the book about the One was one of 273 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 2: the first griefs I ever wrote. When you listen, some 274 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 2: challenged new a license and I turned it in. And 275 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 2: this is back in the nineteen seventy and you're no computers. 276 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 2: Type something up and then if you edited it you 277 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 2: had to like retype. Basically, we had secretaries rally the 278 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 2: clock like they would take a breath and they would 279 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 2: cut me paste. The breeds would wipe out and on 280 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 2: the very complex. So I finished this brief and then 281 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 2: just as I was going to give it to him, 282 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 2: I noticed and plannings and waded in the breaks and 283 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 2: paid in you know, sixty five that I wanted to change, 284 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 2: and I made some hamwritten changes. Something breed so I 285 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 2: turned the bodo him. I said, I made some changes. 286 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 2: Were sitting and rather than burden grating secretary engine and 287 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 2: he threw it back on my face and he said, well, 288 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 2: I guess it's not done yet, so once you go 289 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 2: back and give me a finished product. And I was like, 290 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 2: it was like in shock that looks like are you 291 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 2: are you kidding me me? I didn't say it. I 292 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 2: mistaken ain't kidding me. I stared one hundred and fifty 293 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 2: hours and there's some handwritten changes or age sixty five. 294 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 2: And I went back and I remember I made my 295 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 2: made my secretary stay till nine o'clock of the evening 296 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 2: into the room wins. I turned to do you next day? 297 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 2: I turned it in and he said, okay, that's more 298 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 2: like it. He's slipping at me. I feel over the lesson. 299 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 2: I said, Well, for a grandfather used to say to 300 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 2: air is human. He'd do it twice and he would 301 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 2: bow it. So I said, I can guarantee you I 302 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 2: will never do that again. Yet I never did. They 303 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 2: never did. He's really bad to lesson. You know, you 304 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 2: don't turn in and unfinished prompt, you know, and he 305 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 2: taught me. You taught me a lot of things, but 306 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 2: one thing you taught me was you do a draft, 307 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 2: you do another draft, to do another draft, and do 308 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 2: another draft, doesn't matter. There are mechanical constraints to it. 309 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 2: Just kept doing it until it was his puffet. Then 310 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 2: he could can. So he was good about that, and 311 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 2: there was kind of a seminal conversation that I had 312 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 2: with him. So in those days, you know, walk like manias. 313 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 2: I'd be a right downstat nine o'clock in the morning 314 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 2: and you would work till lendering like regular, was like 315 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 2: a regular thing. I was at the may for our 316 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 2: hotel border it's kind of a go te place, and 317 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 2: he said to me, so what's the point And I said, 318 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 2: well what? Way said, well, what do you? What are 319 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 2: you try and accomplishing life? You know, it's one of 320 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 2: those grand questions. I said, I'd just I really just 321 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 2: want to be like a competent lawyer who can solve 322 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 2: problems for friends, and we can make a limit and 323 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 2: I'll never forget a certainly reason. Well, you're four years 324 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 2: in and you already accomplished that, So I think you'd 325 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 2: better Reachell with me. He said, you know, you're going 326 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 2: a lot better than that. It was kind of what 327 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 2: they were like, you know, maybe I can I can 328 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 2: actually get on the top of this game rather than 329 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 2: just being you know, a light worker. I don't know. 330 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 2: It's one of those things where it told me where 331 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 2: the brass and raining was or a better girl rabbit 332 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 2: and I did. I did. I let that firm. Changing 333 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 2: years later and the other guy and I wore a 334 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 2: link firm and I can imbodicely you say. It became 335 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 2: the Pumier boutique communication. It's a lot for over the world. 336 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 2: We had a huge clients. We were representing your biaground 337 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 2: on MTV CBS when we do work cranding scene and 338 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 2: we were you know, really chalked Laura Cornets. When Bob 339 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 2: passed away, the chapter in the book was the will 340 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 2: from the eulogy when I gave it was a great man. 341 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 2: He was a great man, Steve. 342 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:22,959 Speaker 3: There's another incredible person you write about with loving detail, Uh, 343 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 3: the amazing Alsie Jackson. I took it like his life 344 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 3: could have been like a you know, a movie, if 345 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 3: it were a movie script, who would play you in 346 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 3: the movie and who would play Alsie. 347 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 2: Well, I was thinking about that. Please. I think the 348 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 2: guy I wanted to play me is the guy that 349 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 2: played Honor on Animall House, Tim Mappison. Did you remember 350 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 2: that character. He just carried the cool meet her of 351 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 2: the house and got all the girls and stuff. Yep, 352 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 2: the antip assistant John Belushi. So I would go with 353 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 2: Tim Mappison. He's still is acting Hexam Syrian this Virgin River. 354 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 2: He's the doctor and the Syrian George and River and 355 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 2: Giry watching them, and he's still a good actor. So 356 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 2: I think I would like him. Not you know, it's 357 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 2: not Robert Redfork, but I think of Honor being a 358 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 2: Duello and annimal house per and uh Alsie's Kred. I 359 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 2: was thinking, he's kind of like an l Pool Jay 360 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 2: kind of guy. You know. He was like a big 361 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 2: burrowing guy who're not gonna mess with, but he was 362 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 2: really smart, but he comes He would like Kras just 363 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 2: a big burrowing guy, but he wasn't, and he was 364 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 2: you talk about Horatio around it. He was an amazing guy. 365 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 2: I Revie chimny d in Pittsburgh for many years, and 366 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 2: the guy that ran that station, one's George Miles in 367 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 2: an opinion George but terrific guy. Enjoyed my best friends 368 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 2: back in the day. And you know, I had this 369 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 2: six year long case involving w qing D and Devin 370 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 2: jun the X where I transformed w E jun X 371 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 2: into a commercial station which became the lifeblood in w 372 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 2: But I'd had a long conversation dr Work about doing 373 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 2: some sort of biography of thousand Jackson for public V 374 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 2: and we actually sketched it out and all that we 375 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 2: never we never waved, unfortunately. But he was raising yard 376 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 2: BALSI probably in the long run and more influence over need. 377 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,439 Speaker 2: And maybe anybody I've ever. 378 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 3: Will that's impressive considering people you've met. 379 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 2: And Leland did it because what he taught me was 380 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 2: the value. Will call him. Look, he went a runaway. 381 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 2: He ran away to Hull. He had five bucks in 382 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 2: his pocket. He ran away with his clothes. I mean 383 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 2: they took so little apartment somewhere and they were putting 384 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 2: the food. They went they working at the order and 385 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 2: putting the food around the little windows. He went to 386 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,719 Speaker 2: the little window and he got to bac and cheese 387 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 2: and hear twouts. So he went stockings and that was 388 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 2: his job and Ember one night, he didn't even realize 389 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 2: he got any talent. And one day he took some 390 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 2: scraps of felt and ribbons and stuff and he made 391 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 2: a hat. He made his hat, and he went into 392 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 2: the order run out to say and he sold the 393 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 2: hat to relating for an instat that needs to create it. 394 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 2: And he started, look, I can actually do this, and 395 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 2: he started making thats. After a year or two, he 396 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 2: had to produce several hundred pats in New York in 397 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 2: the Carlos the Beach Woman went back to Philadelphia. You're 398 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 2: actually opening a hat shop. Yeah, And they started making 399 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 2: a living and was very successful. Ever, and then he 400 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 2: decided he wanted and needed need to make roll running. 401 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 2: So he decided to New and Light as our house 402 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 2: father at a Ta Trinity at Parent became our arthstman 403 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty eight. He was the hoarseman until he 404 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 2: died in nineteen ninety seven. So I was a president 405 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 2: of targeting and we listening the US gam and you know, 406 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 2: we were fast burns. And his reputation as a milliner 407 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 2: grew and grew, and he was an empony magazine. Yeah, 408 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 2: and he was called the Dean of the Philadelphia Milliners 409 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 2: and they had a big hat show at Philadelphie General 410 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,680 Speaker 2: Bard and it was at so actual roundable that he 411 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 2: would be entries in the United States. It's incredible, incredible, 412 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,959 Speaker 2: improbable story. You know, we talked about it ain't over 413 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 2: till it's old. He didn't consider him at the top 414 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 2: of his gam mayor being accomplished all back. And by 415 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 2: then he was making a while of running, which like 416 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 2: a well fixed guy, he decides that he wants to 417 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 2: because he never had an education. He never even had 418 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 2: a high school education, got his wibbled c degree and 419 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 2: you were tutored the fraternity office and God has frequency 420 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 2: dineering when we were there high school equivalents not I 421 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 2: remember tutor of the dining room late at night wars. 422 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 2: So he decided very later, why its means, in his 423 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 2: sixty early sixties that he wanted to become a college professor. 424 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 2: Of course he didn't have a convention, but he signs 425 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 2: are because a professor at a lower College of Art 426 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 2: in Philadelphia as a military teacher. It took about one 427 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 2: year as the most popular classy entire schule. They couldn't 428 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 2: even get in in the class. It would be booked 429 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 2: like years of advance and ducating Professor Jackson. You know, 430 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 2: so at them was right. He was he was Alsie 431 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 2: to us in the fashion wall, we call mister Alsie, 432 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 2: mister Alsie, and then he was Professor Jackson. I mean, 433 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 2: it was a ridiculous story. It's just an amazing read. 434 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 2: I always wanted to actually do something, you know better, 435 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 2: memorializing things like but what I did do I promised 436 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 2: him I would never let the fraternity guys. They never 437 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,679 Speaker 2: let them together about it before, say I did. When 438 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 2: he died, I decided to create an endowed scholarship in 439 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 2: his name. I'd never really tried raising money. I waged 440 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 2: one point five million dollars in Life of Pien, the 441 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 2: bubbles bullet period, we unials later Dowd Scholarship appear about 442 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 2: eighteen eighty five thousand dollars in mirror and scholarships. And 443 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 2: every year I go to the fraternity house on Overcoming 444 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 2: and I knew the Elsie Jackson speech. And I've been 445 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 2: doing that since nineteen ninety seven. 446 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 3: So I first became acquainted with you when I went 447 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 3: to work at the end of ninety two beginning of 448 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 3: ninety three for Infinity Broadcasting, and I clearly remember my 449 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 3: first encounter with Mel Karmezan. It was the manager's meetings, 450 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:42,719 Speaker 3: the infamous managers meetings, which was was my first experience. 451 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 3: Do you remember your first meeting with Mel? 452 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 2: Yes, I do remember. Yeah, we're not allowed to talk 453 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 2: about the manadon radio. That's the laws of o'ver airtime. 454 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 2: That's good. What happened at the manager meeting stage that 455 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 2: the so I started with Infinity before melting the wall 456 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 2: I was. I hadn't bend their lawyer for a while. 457 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 2: I became involved with in the car I think and 458 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 2: RNT in seventy three where they bought their first radio station, 459 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 2: which was a San Jose kao where I mean the 460 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 2: come spot on your dial Dennis erecta. 461 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 4: Ship right, But there was a they was unbeliegual and 462 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 4: I did the deal for that station that I did 463 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 4: the WBCIA and I was shadowing the senior partner at 464 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 4: the CHIN during Wilkins. 465 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 2: And literally legally blarred. But he's a brilliant guy. So 466 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 2: and he was a mentor too. But you know, there 467 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 2: were these two Jewish guys who had created Infinity, wien 468 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 2: Here and Caras, and they kind of took a shine 469 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 2: to me, and you're like, you know, I was a 470 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 2: member of the tribe, you know. And I quickly became 471 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 2: very involved with Affetity and started the United Corra and 472 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 2: then we were a big battle for WBC Avenue the Union. 473 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 2: Melkenbom maybe four five years later. The first thing in 474 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 2: didit he negotiated as the deal, which also was a 475 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 2: chapter in the book She Buy k X y Z 476 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 2: and Houston. That was an air station Barritt Carl there 477 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 2: was owned by this guy Manning Slater, and Manning Slater 478 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 2: was also a client of mckennall. Will Consuming Kittner. The 479 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 2: thought that I was at so there was a councilor 480 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 2: and at first and meil this was Mel's first deal 481 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 2: with infinite and it didn't look like I could be 482 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 2: involved where I was going to have to bow outs 483 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 2: in conflict. The guy raad the firm. J and mcketta 484 00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 2: went to Manning Slater and got him to Wade the 485 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 2: Manning another lawyer, so they waived the conflict. I ended 486 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 2: up representing Mel. I met her for the first tournay. 487 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,479 Speaker 2: The closing was in Dallas, and I met him in Dallas. 488 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 2: We had dinner together and he kind of said the 489 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 2: same thing that Bob Cole said to me in nineteen 490 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 2: seventies and worn and said, well, what's the extra Steve Blerver, 491 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 2: I'd like to, you know, represent this company the best 492 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 2: invitability and blah blah blah, and said, well you're already 493 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 2: doing that, so you know a while so they were. 494 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 2: It was that the same conversation. I remember that, so 495 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 2: you know, and Meil was that way. You know, Mel 496 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 2: was a genius in the sense of our setting a 497 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 2: high bar with you high but a tedible it wasn't possible. 498 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 2: And we keep this deal. The next day and the closing, 499 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 2: the closing got very messy, and it got messy. Uh oh. 500 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 2: There were this issue of probations, which is basically any 501 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 2: sort of dividing up the various perceivables of liabilities as 502 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 2: you know, as are the closing day, Can I work 503 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 2: with you buy it? I was, And he's paying the 504 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 2: property Jacksons and blah blah blah. And we got into 505 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 2: a little bit of a fight over some stuff. And 506 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 2: you know, I fought Weard for Infinity and Manning Slater 507 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 2: was none too happy. And I won the yard against 508 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 2: the Californnia lawyer and we got our way and closed 509 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 2: the bill and all as well. And then two things happened. 510 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 2: One was mel were impacked to me. You work, and 511 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 2: I went back to be seen called in the next 512 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 2: day and they said I really liked working and you 513 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 2: fought hard. And he said, I know, I know that 514 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 2: Slater or your bird's client, that it was hard to 515 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 2: not bull purchase, and you didn't pull any punchings. He said, 516 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 2: now I'm just launching the I really in respected you. 517 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 2: And that was Dad. But then in my locker room, 518 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 2: the managing partner called me and guided him the counter 519 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 2: and said, manning Slator just fires. Then he said, what 520 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 2: the hell we didn't do with that closing? It's I said, Jim. 521 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 2: I said, I did what they taught me in law school. 522 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 2: I'm zealous beef baful lakes flocket. It's jealously advocated for it. 523 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 2: And by the way, I want the argument. Lukarra thought 524 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 2: about it for about thirty seconds. I thought I was 525 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 2: heard defiant, and he thought about it for thirty seconds 526 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 2: and he said, you know what you know reading Slater 527 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 2: and he waved the kind flat. He's a big boyar 528 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,239 Speaker 2: and I represented him for twenty years I'm not going 529 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 2: to be a damn thingking a well and he stood bribing. 530 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 2: I mean, I was, you know, I'm the old No. 531 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 2: That was a big deal. So my first encounter of 532 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 2: the bill led to two cooler results, and one was 533 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 2: I actually got a compliment the yell and two nines 534 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 2: and shit, I love it. 535 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 3: I know you're a bit removed from the radio industry, 536 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 3: but is there a germ of advice that you might 537 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 3: give the industry at the challenging times that it's facing. 538 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 2: Back in the day, the eighteen seventies, eighteen you early nineties, 539 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:27,760 Speaker 2: radio was such a great business and the LARGINSSERD demand 540 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 2: for air time and was incredible. And now it's a 541 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 2: bad business. And the big players made it even worse 542 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 2: than themselves. You know, we didn't think about by representing 543 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 2: Citadel and Genuus bought Citadel and they you know, they 544 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 2: overpay and that crowns Tior Soccer into promomst and by 545 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 2: the way, Citadel had bought ady C and they overpd it. 546 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 2: So this this is a famility or Aluvie and then 547 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 2: you know Intercom by CBS S and Ray over pit. 548 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 2: You know, so industry. He took on two what the 549 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 2: debt and neveroly side the consolidation. I mean n I 550 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 2: Art didn't say anything. He had bought everything in sight 551 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 2: and made made these companies into weak companies. They're all 552 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 2: weak companies. And I remember back when I started and 553 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 2: he was seventies, you know, the multiple ownership rules a 554 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,359 Speaker 2: lot to add kind of consolidation. Remember then we were 555 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,360 Speaker 2: was seven seven and seven you know, owned seven A M. 556 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 2: Seven firms in seven T d's and there was only 557 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 2: one company in the country that owned ball selling seventy 558 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 2: seven in selling that I represented them, and he had 559 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,839 Speaker 2: seven amy seven there was and seven the only guy 560 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 2: in the entire company, you know, and that's a small, 561 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 2: tiny little company, right. I think that, you know, in 562 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 2: a way, relaxing those multiple ownership rules, while they were 563 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 2: considered at the time the same your radio, I think 564 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 2: they kind of did them in because they got too 565 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 2: big KiB persons, they overleveraged and brought too much stuff 566 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,320 Speaker 2: ward selecting. And then those Marbert Pop companies back in 567 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 2: the day there were they were very plausible, well run, 568 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 2: you know, they had manageable inventories. I would say, the 569 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 2: only the only way radio from survivors being intenseling local, 570 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 2: being part of the fabric of the community, leverage place 571 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 2: in the community with different kinds of place, corncerance, other 572 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 2: community activities, and kind of just become as local as 573 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 2: they can be. So I think it's you know it's 574 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,360 Speaker 2: going to say, and are not sure that's going to 575 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:51,880 Speaker 2: be sadinery. 576 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 3: Well, you mentioned Active Minds earlier, and we want to 577 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 3: shine a light on that your chairman position with this 578 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 3: incredible organization which I've just through you learned of and 579 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 3: met the founder and some of the leadership there. Virtually 580 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 3: tell us how you became involved and talk about this 581 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 3: brilliant mission of Active Minds. 582 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 2: So about fifteen years ago, one of right four children, 583 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 2: my daughter Italy, was struggling with depression and anxiety and 584 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 2: she just started a mean job looks us job and 585 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,359 Speaker 2: she had to lead the job and sold else here 586 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 2: and involved and intensive therapy for her and it's our 587 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 2: very great psychle Gennerclage. She got better and she's down 588 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 2: married and see children and she started bringing beating ployed. 589 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:57,759 Speaker 2: But when she sort of renourged in the darkness lord depression, 590 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 2: she went to work at Active Lines as an intert 591 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 2: and Active Learns at the time will Snoy the fighter 592 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 2: six year old oigination which had a staff of Sebari 593 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 2: people and once it's in Bradford six or eight months 594 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,360 Speaker 2: and it was very curre to the herb because munch 595 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 2: in the army stigmatized environment. Then the beauty of it 596 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 2: is it's a lot about advocating the legislation, not little 597 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 2: revenue committee. It's laing to teach sint not actually dealing 598 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 2: with kids a one on one basis, bringing them together, 599 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 2: teaching about a community. Jan That's why I got a ball. 600 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,720 Speaker 2: They started raising money. So I've been on the board 601 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 2: now thirteen years. I've been the chair eight years now. 602 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,279 Speaker 2: The other fifteen person board and you are in all 603 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 2: fifty states in the United States, Lear in Italy, Canada, Australia, 604 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 2: the leader in Puerto Rico. Were happening one thousand college 605 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 2: campus indents and we are seventeen thousand members. They are 606 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 2: staff will burn staff of sixty in a budget of 607 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:16,320 Speaker 2: ten million book. So I've watched this organization grow and 608 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 2: if they just haven't been growth for birth's sake, I mean, 609 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 2: first of all, there are eleven hundred sceenicides a year 610 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 2: of a college cadency the second Batlans. Statistics have shown 611 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 2: that if a kid gets to college and he has 612 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 2: suckering for depression or anxiety or by bullets or one 613 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 2: of them, there is like a two to five percent 614 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 2: chance that they will the kid will go to and 615 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 2: seek help because they're afraid to get any school, or 616 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 2: they're afraid or will be here whatever they have fears 617 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 2: that they don't even know what. Well on the elem 618 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 2: that there is a seventy percent chance a kid in 619 00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 2: struggling will will relate to in benefit by peer. And 620 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 2: so if you can create scenarios and college paper seeds 621 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 2: where you can get it who are struggling and interact 622 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 2: with each other, learn you are even packing you alone 623 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 2: unders that is the cheap culprit. So that sort of, 624 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,120 Speaker 2: you know, that's sort of the very simplistic approach about 625 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 2: virus to beat a lot of other burns. You know, 626 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 2: speak to the girl backpack display, You'll take you two 627 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,320 Speaker 2: undercampus in the air where science stories are letting me 628 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 2: do a lot of things. At the core of it 629 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 2: is you need to bring these kids together so we 630 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 2: can interact with each other under protocols that need develop. 631 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 2: So that's that's a little bit with active burns, and 632 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 2: really proud of the organization an all one other day 633 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,759 Speaker 2: to day basics from just the chair, the ball and 634 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,800 Speaker 2: then just the volunteer looking back room on the florist. 635 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 5: Steve Lherman, I'm so grateful that you took the time here, 636 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,760 Speaker 5: and I'm grateful that you are one of the finest 637 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 5: people that I've ever gotten to meet in my life 638 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 5: and gotten to know a bit and admire, and I 639 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 5: so appreciate it all. 640 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,320 Speaker 2: I appreciate it, appreciate the opportunity, it's all my story. 641 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 2: It's always a pleasure to be with you. 642 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a 643 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,360 Speaker 1: Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends 644 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 1: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking 645 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,879 Speaker 1: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 646 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,359 Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts.