Speaker 1: Welcome in to the New Orleans Saints Podcast, present a
Speaker 1: buy Seacake. You'll hear from players, coaches, broadcasters and writers
Speaker 1: that cover the NFL on a daily basis. The New
Speaker 1: Orleans Saints Podcast starts right now. Here's your host, Aaron Summers.
Speaker 2: We're back on the New Orleans Saints Podcast, building towards
Speaker 2: the NFL Draft April twenty fourth through twenty six and
Speaker 2: for those that need a refresher on the free agency
Speaker 2: and roster moves the Saints already have made, you can
Speaker 2: tune into our free agency recap show on New Orleans
Speaker 2: Saints dot com and on the Gulf Coast Sports and
Speaker 2: Entertainment Network with myself and John de Chaser. For today's podcast,
Speaker 2: it's all about the big guys upfront offensive lineman and
Speaker 2: for a breakdown of this year's prospects, let's bring in
Speaker 2: Saints legend John stinchcom. John, thanks for joining me on
Speaker 2: the New Orleans Saints Podcast. It's it's good to talk
Speaker 2: to you at this point of the year. Usually it's
Speaker 2: around the start of the Saints season, but man, we're
Speaker 2: early on in things, getting ready for the draft. How
Speaker 2: are you?
Speaker 3: I'm great and it is an exciting time of the year.
Speaker 3: I think there's a hope springs eternal for every team.
Speaker 3: So you start off with a clean slate and get
Speaker 3: to add some fun pieces, and with the draft coming up,
Speaker 3: that's exciting for everybody.
Speaker 2: I don't know if offensive linemen really get the people
Speaker 2: going no events, but the Saints definitely.
Speaker 3: Well hold on, what do you mean, go with fence, Aaron,
Speaker 3: That's like, with all due respect, and then you just
Speaker 3: take whatever shot you want. Okay, I'm sorry, we don't
Speaker 3: get people fired up. I got it.
Speaker 2: Hey, you were a great one and we appreciate you.
Speaker 2: Last year, though, the Saints did knock one out of
Speaker 2: the park with Talisa Fluaga and their first pick of
Speaker 2: the draft. Last year, there was six tackles that went
Speaker 2: in the first round, so it was definitely a popular pick.
Speaker 2: This year, how many you think are going It'll be interesting.
Speaker 3: I think you look at it and there is a
Speaker 3: separation between the top talent that you deserves those early consideration,
Speaker 3: let's call it. But I also think this, I think
Speaker 3: there's you know, with the Saints having a top ten pick,
Speaker 3: there's really, in my opinion, only four position groups that
Speaker 3: are worthy of that sort of investment on the offensive
Speaker 3: side of the all obviously quarterback and then offensive tackle.
Speaker 3: I think those are difference makers. And then defensively, you're
Speaker 3: looking at it and you either want to get a
Speaker 3: lockdown corner like we've been able to find in years past,
Speaker 3: or somebody who can pressure the quarterbacks on an edge rusher. So,
Speaker 3: in my opinion, those are kind of the four positions
Speaker 3: that are deserving of that top ten consideration. And I
Speaker 3: think there's a number of players that could help not
Speaker 3: only the Saints team, but any team. And when you
Speaker 3: have that top ten pick, you want it to be
Speaker 3: an impact on your organization for years and years to come.
Speaker 2: When you're looking at offensive linemen and the prospects, what
Speaker 2: are some of the things that you're keyed in on
Speaker 2: when you're what And I'm sure it varies by position
Speaker 2: on the line as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely so tackle specifically. I mean, you want somebody
Speaker 3: that can do both, that is athletic enough to where
Speaker 3: you're not worried about facing some of the you know,
Speaker 3: these speed demons coming off the edge. You're going to
Speaker 3: face the Mica Parsons of the world, and the Boss
Speaker 3: and the Watts, and so you need somebody who can move.
Speaker 3: And then the way the direction this game has moved,
Speaker 3: it's you've got to be able to run the ball now.
Speaker 3: So somebody who can, who can generate that power, create
Speaker 3: something some of that vertical separation that you see, and
Speaker 3: operate in space. That's not an easy combo to find
Speaker 3: in players, especially somebody that's ready made and can jump
Speaker 3: right in. And like you said, I think you hit
Speaker 3: a home run last year and finding for Waga. Who
Speaker 3: fits that bill. He's athletic enough, and you saw the
Speaker 3: development of him and his game throughout the season of Yes,
Speaker 3: he can move, he's super athletic, and you also saw
Speaker 3: the power that he generates. So that's the type player
Speaker 3: that you're looking for when you're trying to draft someone,
Speaker 3: not only in the first round, but I think there's
Speaker 3: an even higher bar to clear when you're looking at
Speaker 3: a top ten pick.
Speaker 2: Okay, So with Will Campbell at the combine and the
Speaker 2: whole scrupancy around his arm length, how big of a
Speaker 2: deal is that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's laughable. I mean there's guys in
Speaker 3: the past who're worried about their hand size and all
Speaker 3: these things, and turn on the film. Can he player?
Speaker 3: Can he not, And Will's played in the SEC for
Speaker 3: a number of years now against the very best. The
Speaker 3: same guys that he's going to face were similar at
Speaker 3: this next level and did so in a very respect manner.
Speaker 3: So am I worried that, you know, it's half an
Speaker 3: inch shorter than others, No, I'm not. I think you
Speaker 3: watch him play and you see his athleticism and it
Speaker 3: jumps out off the film, and I'm sure at the
Speaker 3: State of Louisiana would be thrilled to keep one of
Speaker 3: their own right there in the backyard. So I'm sure
Speaker 3: there's internal pressures just to at least consider walking down
Speaker 3: that path.
Speaker 2: He stepped on campus there and won the starting job
Speaker 2: at left tackle as a true freshman, played three years
Speaker 2: there and did very well. I was looking at some
Speaker 2: of the analysis of his game and someone said that
Speaker 2: he's not a dominant destroyer at point of attack. Can
Speaker 2: you explain exactly what that means?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he's not one of those physical malers. I
Speaker 3: think Makai Beckton when he was coming out, the guy
Speaker 3: was three seventy five. So you turn on his film
Speaker 3: and he's truly mashing people, and that's not Will game.
Speaker 3: Will's athletick. He moves really well. You see him stay
Speaker 3: in position in pass protection, and you know that's more
Speaker 3: his game. He's not one of those guys that once
Speaker 3: he gets his hands on you, he's just going to
Speaker 3: run you twelve yards and dump folks. So I don't
Speaker 3: know if that's a necessity, if that's what you're looking for,
Speaker 3: if that's the type offense that you plan on running,
Speaker 3: he's probably not your guy. But he's a very capable
Speaker 3: run blocker. You see him sustained blocks, you see him
Speaker 3: get in the right position and run his feet, And
Speaker 3: although you don't see that drive from Malers that fit
Speaker 3: that bill. I think he offers that balance that folks
Speaker 3: are looking for in the ability to be successful in
Speaker 3: both pass protection and the run game. So not the
Speaker 3: Maller type. That's that's not his mo and for most systems,
Speaker 3: it doesn't need to.
Speaker 2: Be on the left side in general.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean that's where we've seeing him most recently.
Speaker 3: I think you look at his player profile and probably
Speaker 3: projects best at left tackle. In my opinion, I'm biased.
Speaker 3: Aaron I spent most of my time in the NFL
Speaker 3: at right tackle, but I think because of the way
Speaker 3: the game has evolved. There's equal ask whether it's left
Speaker 3: side or right side. It used to be you know,
Speaker 3: your right side is your more powerful player. Your right
Speaker 3: tackle and your left tackles you're more athletic. Blind side
Speaker 3: of the quarterback I think that's the biggest misused term
Speaker 3: in all of sports, if I'm going to be candid
Speaker 3: with you, because the backside of a quarterback is away
Speaker 3: from where he's looking, so you know, it's usually to
Speaker 3: the to the strength of the field, the strength of
Speaker 3: the formation, that the wide side of the field. So
Speaker 3: if you're on the left hash, guess where the eyes
Speaker 3: of the quarterback are. You're to his right, So that
Speaker 3: makes it the left tackle. Guess what. We don't just
Speaker 3: play on the left hash anymore. You know, it's you
Speaker 3: go to that right hash. You're looking over to the
Speaker 3: left side of the formation and the backside the blind
Speaker 3: side of the quarterbacks on his right. So yeah, sorry, soapbox,
Speaker 3: you got me up there, Aaron, But Will's an athletic guy.
Speaker 3: He could play either side. I mean, obviously there is
Speaker 3: its easiest to project at left tackle, but that's the
Speaker 3: same thing with Fuaga, a guy who could, in my opinion,
Speaker 3: play either easily, and he made that transition pretty seamlessly.
Speaker 3: He was a guy who would come out as a
Speaker 3: right tackle and was able to shift over. So that
Speaker 3: seems to be a forgotten conversation this time of year
Speaker 3: when you're comparing it to Will Could he play right?
Speaker 3: Could he play elsewhere? He's an athletic guy that moves
Speaker 3: well in space and is more than functional in the
Speaker 3: run game, So, in my opinion, could project either side.
Speaker 2: It seems like in speaking to Will Camble after LSU's
Speaker 2: Pro Day, he said that most teams are still looking
Speaker 2: at him as a tackle and a couple maybe at
Speaker 2: guard because that's there need. But it's it did seem
Speaker 2: like he wanted to play tackle. Why, Like, what's the
Speaker 2: biggest the biggest difference is it ego thing? Like why
Speaker 2: these guys think that they got to hold down the corners?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the ask is different. I think I
Speaker 3: think you have to be a little more dynamic at
Speaker 3: tackle than you do at guard. I think the ask
Speaker 3: is depending on the system. You're playing in a much
Speaker 3: more confined space. On the end, you're looking for more power.
Speaker 3: You talk about you know, I want somebody who can
Speaker 3: move folks on the interior. I played next to Jare
Speaker 3: Evans and the other guard was Pearl Nicks. So you
Speaker 3: talk about two big humans that can take some of
Speaker 3: the giants in this world and dump them seven yards.
Speaker 3: They were capable of doing that. I think that's kind
Speaker 3: of what you're looking for in a profile of a guard,
Speaker 3: whereas at tackle you need to be more athletic and dynamic,
Speaker 3: and I think that fits Will's game better. I think
Speaker 3: there's probably some systems that could move him into guard
Speaker 3: and want that lateral mobility that he offers, But for
Speaker 3: just the way he plays, I think he's a more
Speaker 3: natural tackle than he is a guard.
Speaker 2: Is somebody that I've seen slated as either is Texas
Speaker 2: Calvin Banks. I mean, he's another person that's been talked
Speaker 2: about as one of the top offensive linemen in this
Speaker 2: draft here. What are your thoughts on him?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you got the big three right Obviously, Kevin
Speaker 3: Banks is one of those guys where he's built different
Speaker 3: than Will, a much thicker lower half, he plays a
Speaker 3: little more power, he's got a little more solid base
Speaker 3: to him. To me, that's a guy who would project
Speaker 3: as an either. I think you could move him into
Speaker 3: guard and still have that power position, let him play
Speaker 3: and confined spaces, and his game would probably transfer to
Speaker 3: either for most systems better than Wills would, just because
Speaker 3: Will's I think Will's athletics is higher on the chart
Speaker 3: than than Banks is, but Banks probably has more power.
Speaker 3: And you know, it depends on what you're what you're
Speaker 3: looking to get and how you're looking to fill needs
Speaker 3: and fit them in. Usually with that first round, you
Speaker 3: know there's such great value there that they can project
Speaker 3: to a number of different ways of helping your team.
Speaker 3: And both those guys fit that bill all right.
Speaker 2: Some other names we should be looking at as the
Speaker 2: draft moves.
Speaker 3: Down, Well, yea mimboo, right, mimbo how we pronounced that?
Speaker 3: Missouri another another great player. You watch him move and
Speaker 3: to me, he's kind of that tweeer of of he's
Speaker 3: got an athleticism athletic profile similar to Wills, but probably
Speaker 3: not as high. And then he's also got the power
Speaker 3: like Banks, but not as high. So kind of that
Speaker 3: hybrid of the two. Uh and and I think they
Speaker 3: have separated themselves as to in the consideration of some
Speaker 3: of those first linemen taken. You look at depth of
Speaker 3: this draft, and I think it's probably deeper on the inside.
Speaker 3: I think there's more guards available in this draft than
Speaker 3: there are tackles that can help you, and I think
Speaker 3: this is probably a woefully thin year for center. So
Speaker 3: luckily that's not of need for the Saints because I
Speaker 3: don't think there's a lot of guys that project to
Speaker 3: be Day one starters or even starters down the road
Speaker 3: in this league. So I'm glad we're not in a
Speaker 3: position where that's a need for us, and we can
Speaker 3: look elsewhere.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Eric McCoy's been holding it down and then brought
Speaker 2: back Will Clap so got a back up right there.
Speaker 2: Ohio states Josh Simmons. He tore his ACL mid October
Speaker 2: and he was somebody that was slated to go first round.
Speaker 2: How much of a factor is that injury and maybe
Speaker 2: how much does he drop because of it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's an opportunity for teams that are
Speaker 3: willing to understand that ACL's the progression and recovery from
Speaker 3: that injury. We're not thirty years ago where it's like,
Speaker 3: oh he tours a ACLS. It's like back and be
Speaker 3: the exact same, better player. There's still plenty of meat
Speaker 3: left on the bone if you will for a player's
Speaker 3: profile when they're recovering from an acl different from some
Speaker 3: other injuries, but that's not a big concern. You turn
Speaker 3: on his tape and Ohio State's got a couple linemen,
Speaker 3: you know, you look at Donovan as well, and you say,
Speaker 3: these guys can play at the next level. So I've
Speaker 3: watched some of their film, just going back and watching
Speaker 3: Ohio State play, and that's a talented team. So you've
Speaker 3: got some of these blue blood programs that are putting
Speaker 3: out some high level players, and two are coming out
Speaker 3: of Ohio State that may not be the top of
Speaker 3: the first round, but you can look at them and
Speaker 3: say they can help our team down the road, or
Speaker 3: I can see them as starters. And for Josh coming back,
Speaker 3: it's one of those guys where before he got injured,
Speaker 3: he's playing at a high level. And that wouldn't scare
Speaker 3: me away one bit. I think there's probably more opportunity
Speaker 3: for because you know, there's not as much chatter and
Speaker 3: buzz surrounding a guy like that.
Speaker 2: Sure, what are you watching film for? You just spit
Speaker 2: back on your couch, dial up some O line film
Speaker 2: and go and it's.
Speaker 3: Scary here and you got to let it go at
Speaker 3: some point, and it's hard for me. So usually this
Speaker 3: time of year I'm training offensive linemen as they get
Speaker 3: ready for the draft, and this is it's one of
Speaker 3: the first years that I'm not training anybody. So it's
Speaker 3: old habits of just being able to watch film and
Speaker 3: try to stay somewhat connected to the game. It's now
Speaker 3: it's sad, and I don't appreciate you pointing that out
Speaker 3: in front of all these fans that are knowing. How
Speaker 3: you know, you got to let the rope go at
Speaker 3: some point, John, but you have.
Speaker 2: It yet, but you do stay involved still, as you said,
Speaker 2: training people, and you're there doing stuff with Georgia. We
Speaker 2: have no lineman there that we're working with.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah there. So I've worked with a number of
Speaker 3: offensive line coming out of Georgia in years past. There's uh,
Speaker 3: you know, four guys have are leaving Georgia. So there's
Speaker 3: all all draftable, all capable of helping teams in different levels.
Speaker 3: You've got Date rat Ledge and Jared Wilson, Dylan Fairchilds
Speaker 3: and your trusts and different player profiles. But uh, you
Speaker 3: know it's again when you start looking at programs like
Speaker 3: LSU or Georgia, Ohio State Texas. It seems like every
Speaker 3: year they've got a player or two, and it's because
Speaker 3: the way they recruit. You know, you've recruited UH and
Speaker 3: it's most difficult to find offensive and defensive linemen. So
Speaker 3: you pool these players together, you develop them for three
Speaker 3: or four years, and it's it's no surprise that when
Speaker 3: they leave the and matriculate through the college ranks, they
Speaker 3: are ready to help out some profession team. So George
Speaker 3: is no exception. This year. There's a number of guys that,
Speaker 3: you know, depending on where you have them raided, whether
Speaker 3: it's a second third day rating, they can come in
Speaker 3: and fill some needs across that roster.
Speaker 2: I saw somewhere where somebody was saying that there's about
Speaker 2: one hundred and forty eight draftable offensive linemen out there,
Speaker 2: but probably about twenty max will actually get drafted, and
Speaker 2: it seems crazy considering how many rounds there are and
Speaker 2: how many picks. But you mentioned that the depth might
Speaker 2: not be there across the board this year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, you look at it, and I'm
Speaker 3: sure now that I'm old Aaron, and you continue to
Speaker 3: point that out, and I appreciate it. Humbling, thank you
Speaker 3: for this. Now I've got more friends that are like
Speaker 3: coaches across the league. You know, like there's a quarter
Speaker 3: of the teams in the league where either played with
Speaker 3: somebody or played against Somebody's probably more than that, but
Speaker 3: you get to talking to him and as they're evaluating players,
Speaker 3: it's like, can he be a cornerstone for our team?
Speaker 3: Can he be a starter? Is he like a sixth
Speaker 3: man type, speaking specifically for offensive line, or is this
Speaker 3: a developmental guy that maybe he can be a backup
Speaker 3: one day? And then based on that analysis, that's when
Speaker 3: you kind of start rating them as to know, you know,
Speaker 3: I think there's a top ten pick. I think it's
Speaker 3: the first rounder. I think this is two or three.
Speaker 3: I think this is back in or he's a free
Speaker 3: agent guy that you know, there's parts of his game
Speaker 3: that we like and maybe you know there's something down
Speaker 3: the road. So when you're when you're looking at it,
Speaker 3: it's funny, you know, is there one hundred and fifty
Speaker 3: guys that are going to be meaningful contributors in the NFL? No,
Speaker 3: they're not draftable, as in something about their game is exciting.
Speaker 3: Maybe you know, we talked earlier about maybe they're mallers,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe they can move people, and you're like,
Speaker 3: we need to work on them in this space, or
Speaker 3: maybe their head butters and and they play out over
Speaker 3: their toes too much, and that's something that we can
Speaker 3: work on and fix. And you know, once you get
Speaker 3: towards the back end of draft a ble quote unquote players,
Speaker 3: they all have their fall flaws and and so to
Speaker 3: the sort of the top rank guys, and they're not
Speaker 3: perfect players out there. So understanding what you need, what
Speaker 3: you what your system requires and demands is important because, uh,
Speaker 3: you look at the Eagles or the Ravens and their
Speaker 3: ask is very different than you know, some of the
Speaker 3: drop back teams where you're going, well, we need somebody
Speaker 3: who can who can pass, protect and five man pro constantly,
Speaker 3: or do we need somebody who can you know, root
Speaker 3: out and move people because we're a run first offense.
Speaker 3: So I think understanding a player's profile and then fitting
Speaker 3: them into your system is super important.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: With that said, Aaron, there's not one hundred and fifty
Speaker 3: draftable players that you know, you look out there and say,
Speaker 3: hey they can help us. That just doesn't exist.
Speaker 2: Okay, you mentioned some of your friends that are coaching,
Speaker 2: which are you here with the Saints and then you
Speaker 2: mentioned the Eagles and their system, Well, Kellen Moore is
Speaker 2: now here as well. What is this line going to
Speaker 2: look like? What do you think are going to be
Speaker 2: the things that they're really valuing in their alignment based
Speaker 2: on the scheme.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's going to be interesting to watch because
Speaker 3: I think you look at coach Moore's history and it
Speaker 3: wasn't just one way of doing things. I think he
Speaker 3: did an incredible job of trying to match scheme with personnel.
Speaker 3: And now that he is at the Helm, will you
Speaker 3: can kind of craft both to each other. You can
Speaker 3: draft the players that you want to fit the system
Speaker 3: that you want, and you know, when you find guys
Speaker 3: like Fuwaga from last year, it can fit in almost
Speaker 3: any system. If he were you end up in Baltimore,
Speaker 3: which is run first, he would fit there because he's
Speaker 3: he can play with that kind of power. Or if
Speaker 3: it's you know, more of a dropback system with five
Speaker 3: man protection in the old Pete Carmichael days, he would
Speaker 3: be he would be equally as adept in that type role.
Speaker 3: So there are a few guys that fit both type systems,
Speaker 3: and you know it's it's pretty broad of me to
Speaker 3: say it's one or the other, and there's a wide
Speaker 3: spectrum of what you're looking for. But you know, you'd
Speaker 3: love to find as many Jaures as you possibly could
Speaker 3: where you know, he's a big, powerful guy and you
Speaker 3: could fit him into anything, whether it was run first
Speaker 3: or you know, we threw the ball sixty times a
Speaker 3: game when that was the anomaly, and he was equally
Speaker 3: as adept. So you want to find as many of
Speaker 3: those guys as you can. They just don't grow on trees.
Speaker 3: So I think to get back to your question and Aaron, Uh,
Speaker 3: it'll be interesting to see what what does the more
Speaker 3: system look like and what type players is he looking for.
Speaker 3: You know, there are still some needs across the board
Speaker 3: when you look at this roster, and I don't think
Speaker 3: we have a very clear cut starting five in this
Speaker 3: offensive line. And I'm sure they would love, whether it's
Speaker 3: the first, second, or third round, to be able to
Speaker 3: add a couple pieces or at least one to kind
Speaker 3: of solidify that group.
Speaker 2: You would be vouching for another high draft pick offensive
Speaker 2: lineman and get your guys some money.
Speaker 3: I get it well, just historically, you look at the Saints,
Speaker 3: look at the look at the where they have placed
Speaker 3: their value, and it's all first and second round guys.
Speaker 3: Knowing that, in my opinion, you can find starter quality
Speaker 3: players at other positions across the offense, UH specifically wide receiver.
Speaker 3: If I'm going to single one out wide receiver, tight end,
Speaker 3: there's guys that you can play in as a part
Speaker 3: of your system that can be big ADS value ads.
Speaker 3: I don't think that's the case. I don't think that
Speaker 3: without paying a bajillion dollars you can't just find those
Speaker 3: in free agency and feel like they're plug and play
Speaker 3: and ready to go. So you look historically at the
Speaker 3: Saints and under Mickey Loomis specifically, and there have been
Speaker 3: a number of first and a handful of second round
Speaker 3: guys that have come in. With that said, you know
Speaker 3: I just listed we talked about jahree and Carl Nicks,
Speaker 3: Zach Streef. There have been a number of fines that
Speaker 3: later in the draft where they've evaluated talent and they've
Speaker 3: been able to come in. But I would not be
Speaker 3: surprised if one of those first five picks that they
Speaker 3: have in the first three rounds is dedicated to help
Speaker 3: up front.
Speaker 2: The seams have done a good job of evaluating talent
Speaker 2: and finding people, even undrafted players in a lot of
Speaker 2: other roles. I appreciate all of the time the insight
Speaker 2: that you got, and we'll look and we'll see what
Speaker 2: happens April twenty fourth, when the draft kicks off.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's going to be exciting. I know. Anytime you
Speaker 3: get a new coach, there's some buzz that surrounds it,
Speaker 3: and I'm a part of it. I'm excited to see
Speaker 3: what this team looks like under Kellen Moore and the
Speaker 3: direction that he starts to take this organization.
Speaker 2: When the draft comes around, I am too. It's going
Speaker 2: to be interesting to see what type of players and
Speaker 2: then what it all looks like when it comes together
Speaker 2: this fall, I guess. But we'll be there earlier with
Speaker 2: training camp, so I will see Aaron.
Speaker 3: Let's call it summer. He'll be right back out there.
Speaker 2: I know, right here in Metarie. We're having training camp here,
Speaker 2: so I will see you back in New Orleans.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, get your sunscreen ready.
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, all right, thanks, Eric. Appreciate John, and
Speaker 2: we'll be seeing him again very soon during training camp.
Speaker 2: Not too far off end of July beginning of August.
Speaker 2: Next week, I'll be back Monday, Wednesday, Friday with our
Speaker 2: continued position breakdowns. So thanks for tuning in and have
Speaker 2: a great weekend.
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