Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and
Speaker 1: that and today we're discussing going minimalists to save more
Speaker 1: with Joshua Becker. We've all heard about the minimalist lifestyle.
Speaker 1: Maybe you're picturing a bearded hipster drinking coffee in his empty,
Speaker 1: perfectly white dining room, right, it turns out that is
Speaker 1: not what minimalism is all about. We've all been spending
Speaker 1: more time in our homes than we'd probably like, and
Speaker 1: all that clutter might be getting to you. And so
Speaker 1: here to talk with us today about minimalist living is
Speaker 1: Joshua Becker. While beginning the process of removing possessions from
Speaker 1: his life, Joshua started the site Becoming Minimalist, and he's
Speaker 1: written several fantastic books over the years, including The More
Speaker 1: of Less and The Minimalist Home. Not only can a
Speaker 1: minimal approach to life allow us to spend less and
Speaker 1: save more of our money, but it can have a
Speaker 1: positive impact in lots of areas of our life. So, Joshua,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for coming on the podcast. Well, it
Speaker 1: is my pleasure. I'm delighted to be here. Thank you
Speaker 1: for the invitation. Anytime, man, anytime seriously, if you're gonna
Speaker 1: come back next week too. And and by the way,
Speaker 1: if there's a bearded hipster in his dining room drinking
Speaker 1: coffee listening, I think that's fantastic. So they might not
Speaker 1: need as many of these principles. They might have applied
Speaker 1: them already. Peop'll see. But Joshua, every week on the podcast,
Speaker 1: Matt and I drink a craft beer. It's kind of
Speaker 1: our way of sporting on something that we love now
Speaker 1: while also being intentional and saving well for the future.
Speaker 1: So today on the show, we're drinking a beer called
Speaker 1: I Feel at All by Monday Night Brewing, and what's
Speaker 1: your splurge? What's your craft beer equivalent? What is my well?
Speaker 1: By the way, Monday Night Brewing. I think I've been there.
Speaker 1: I think you have. You were here last time in
Speaker 1: Atlanta last summer, right, Yeah, indeed indeed, and uh and
Speaker 1: last fall we had had I've had two events there
Speaker 1: and the past here. But your friends with a buddy
Speaker 1: of ours, Jeff Schinnerbarger, Yeah, I think you've done some
Speaker 1: events with him. He's apply with people. Is his organization.
Speaker 1: They do some amazing stuff for sure. Yeah, wonderful anyway, Yeah, splurge.
Speaker 1: Good question. I've I've kind of moved away from buying possessions,
Speaker 1: buying things that I don't need, And I would say
Speaker 1: that while I've replaced it with a number of different things,
Speaker 1: one thing that we do like splurging on is trips, vacations, experiences.
Speaker 1: My kids are seventeen and thirteen, and so my son's
Speaker 1: a junior and my daughter's in eighth grade. And I
Speaker 1: think all the research that's ever been done that experiences
Speaker 1: lead to more happiness than than possessions, I've found that
Speaker 1: to be true. So, while my kids are still at home,
Speaker 1: I have always wanted to create good memories and fun stories,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times those happens when we when
Speaker 1: we go away together as a family. Well, with your
Speaker 1: kids being older like that, Like, have you felt the
Speaker 1: urge to kind of kind of squeeze in a few
Speaker 1: more of these experiences before, you know, before your kids
Speaker 1: kind of go off to school or whatever it is
Speaker 1: they decided to move on to. I have, indeed, and
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's an artificial urgency or not,
Speaker 1: but I certainly feel it. You only get eighteen summers
Speaker 1: with your kids, or at least ideally right, and then
Speaker 1: they're kind of moving on, and so Salem now is
Speaker 1: a spring break for his junior year. And so yeah, one,
Speaker 1: maybe one or two more summers, one or two more
Speaker 1: spring breaks when you can create some of those create
Speaker 1: some of those memories. And from everything I can tell
Speaker 1: talking to family, like, it doesn't end there, right, even
Speaker 1: when they're in college. They come back and you do things.
Speaker 1: But you, I think you certainly feel that feel that urgency. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. Hey, Joshua, let's talk about minimalism. And you know,
Speaker 1: from everything I've read about minimalism, I feel like you
Speaker 1: can be easily misunderstood. Everyone seemed to kind of have
Speaker 1: a different definition of what it means. So kind of
Speaker 1: to set the stage for this conversation, what's your definition
Speaker 1: of minimalism? Yeah, I think everybody, well, I don't know
Speaker 1: if everybody has a different definition of minimalism, but the
Speaker 1: way it plays out in a person's life is always
Speaker 1: going to look different from one person to another. Certainly
Speaker 1: there are different definitions of it. The one that I
Speaker 1: have always used as this minimalism is the intentional promotion
Speaker 1: of the things I'm most value in life by removing
Speaker 1: anything that distracts me from it in this way, it's
Speaker 1: it's not about the goal of minimalism, isn't how do
Speaker 1: I own the fewest amount of things as possible? That
Speaker 1: the greatest promise of minimalism isn't just owning less stuff.
Speaker 1: The greatest goal of minimalism is that I get to
Speaker 1: pursue with more passion whatever my greatest prior parties and
Speaker 1: greatest values are. And one way I do that, certainly
Speaker 1: in terms of physical possessions, is I stop wasting money
Speaker 1: on things that I don't need. I stop wasting time
Speaker 1: and energy not just pursuing but accumulating and maintaining and
Speaker 1: managing all the things that I own, and and begin
Speaker 1: directing my most finite resources towards the things in life
Speaker 1: that matter most. And of course that's going to look
Speaker 1: different from one person to another. Yeah, and so to
Speaker 1: you at least, what are some of the maybe misconceptions
Speaker 1: or like false ideas of what minimalism is that you've
Speaker 1: heard people share with you. Yeah, so I was probably
Speaker 1: the first blog entirely dedicated to minimalism. I started writing
Speaker 1: about it twelve years ago, and so there were certainly
Speaker 1: a lot more misconceptions twelve years ago but but a
Speaker 1: lot more people are talking about it now then than
Speaker 1: back then. But I think some of the some of
Speaker 1: the major ones still pop into people's minds, you know,
Speaker 1: like the intro that's just for young young college kids. Um,
Speaker 1: that it means no beauty in life whatsoever. But but
Speaker 1: it's just bear in that that the goal is, yeah,
Speaker 1: that the goal is just to own the fewest amount
Speaker 1: of things that you possibly can, or that there's a
Speaker 1: certain number you can't own more than a hundred things.
Speaker 1: I think that there are there are those misconceptions, but
Speaker 1: probably the biggest misconception that I think continues to pervade
Speaker 1: is this idea that minimalism is a sacrifice in some way,
Speaker 1: that that minimalism will lead to a boring life, that
Speaker 1: I have to get rid of all my things, and
Speaker 1: my life is going to be boring and stale because
Speaker 1: house of it. When the exact opposite is true. It's
Speaker 1: it's about getting rid of the things you don't need
Speaker 1: so that you can spend more of your life in
Speaker 1: passionate pursuit of the things that are are most important
Speaker 1: to you. So I think that's probably the biggest one.
Speaker 1: And then you know, just as I mentioned, before. It's
Speaker 1: it's always gonna look different from one person to another.
Speaker 1: If if you're single, if you're have three kids, if
Speaker 1: you're an empty nester, if you live in the city,
Speaker 1: or you live in the suburb, or are in a
Speaker 1: out in a rural area, if you're a farmer or
Speaker 1: a writer or a dentist, like, all these things are
Speaker 1: going to change what you what you own in order
Speaker 1: to be who you want to be, or even where
Speaker 1: you live, and what you need in order to live
Speaker 1: and get around. When you were talking about that, Josh,
Speaker 1: what it kind of made me? It gave this picture
Speaker 1: popped in my head, like a monk in a cell.
Speaker 1: And I think maybe sometimes that's the idea that I've
Speaker 1: had of minimalism, is kind of literally being devoid of possessions,
Speaker 1: and and yeah, I think I'm interested to dive in
Speaker 1: a little more and here kind of what how we
Speaker 1: think about what we keep in our lives. And we've
Speaker 1: got some questions for you about that, but I want
Speaker 1: to know first, like for most people to even begin
Speaker 1: to explore the concept of minimalism or implementing any minimalist
Speaker 1: principles into their lives, you mentioned in your book that
Speaker 1: they need a tipping point, So I want to know
Speaker 1: what was your tipping point? What led you to kind
Speaker 1: of go down this path? Yeah? Um, so for me,
Speaker 1: it was a Saturday morning, Yeah, twelve years ago now,
Speaker 1: I was. I was living up in Vermont. My children
Speaker 1: were five and two at the time, and we're gonna
Speaker 1: do our spring cleaning that weekend, and I offered to
Speaker 1: clean out the garage because I thought my five year
Speaker 1: old son would want to help me clean out the garage. Obviously,
Speaker 1: what five year old son wouldn't want to spend the
Speaker 1: day the garage, right, So he lasted about thirty seconds,
Speaker 1: and he was in the backyard playing, and I'm in
Speaker 1: the garage and one thing leads to another. Hours later,
Speaker 1: I'm still working on the same garage. My son's acting
Speaker 1: me to come play catch with him, and I just
Speaker 1: keep pushing them off. I'm almost done. I'm almost done. Well,
Speaker 1: I strike up a conversation with my neighbor, who was
Speaker 1: outside doing all of her yard work at the time,
Speaker 1: and I think she noticed what was happening on my
Speaker 1: side of the hedge, and she makes a comment, well,
Speaker 1: the joys of home ownership, hunt Joshua, And of course
Speaker 1: she'd been working all morning too, and I said, well,
Speaker 1: you know what they say, the more stuff you own,
Speaker 1: the more your stuff owns you. And she responded by saying, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, that's why my daughter is a minimalist. She
Speaker 1: keeps telling me I don't need to own all this stuff.
Speaker 1: And I remember looking at my driveway and there's this
Speaker 1: pile of dirty, dusty things I pulled out of the
Speaker 1: garage and spent all day cleaning, and out of the
Speaker 1: corner of my eye, I see my five year old
Speaker 1: son swinging alone on the swing set in the backyard.
Speaker 1: And suddenly I realized my possessions weren't making me happy,
Speaker 1: which I think all of us would say, right, we're
Speaker 1: not looking for happiness and our possessions. But the further
Speaker 1: realization was, not only were my possessions not making me happy,
Speaker 1: my possessions were actually taking me away from the very
Speaker 1: thing that did bring me happiness in life, and not
Speaker 1: just happiness, but meaning and joy and significance and purpose,
Speaker 1: And for me, that was the tipping point. I think
Speaker 1: that that is the realization that a person has to make,
Speaker 1: that everyone who pursues a minimalist life at some point
Speaker 1: has that realization that not only our excess possessions not
Speaker 1: making us happy, but our excess possessions are actually taking
Speaker 1: us away from the very things that do bring us
Speaker 1: happiness and life. Because you don't you don't see that.
Speaker 1: Cross the table from somebody and ask them what do
Speaker 1: you most want to accomplish in life? Nobody says, I
Speaker 1: just want to own as much junk as I possibly can.
Speaker 1: But somewhere along the way, society comes along and hijacks
Speaker 1: our passions and we begin accumulating all these things that
Speaker 1: we don't need. And suddenly there there comes a point
Speaker 1: where we realize, one of my I'm wasting my life
Speaker 1: with those things when I could be doing far more
Speaker 1: important things with my life. Right, yeah, what a juxtaposition, right,
Speaker 1: Like you paint such a good image I mean now,
Speaker 1: but in your book as well, when you kind of
Speaker 1: contrast this heap of dusty, crummy junk sitting there in
Speaker 1: the driveway and then you have like this youthful person,
Speaker 1: you know, your son, who you love and he's back there.
Speaker 1: That really struck me pretty deep, having young kids about
Speaker 1: that age as well. And I mean, this is what
Speaker 1: you mean in your book too, Like when you say
Speaker 1: that the payoff of minimalism. It's not a clean how
Speaker 1: there are these bigger benefits and that that we realized.
Speaker 1: Can you talk about some of these I guess like
Speaker 1: some of these universal benefits that pretty much everybody realizes
Speaker 1: as they kind of go down the path of minimalism.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. As a matter of fact, every time I speak,
Speaker 1: I uh, whenever time allows, I always have the person
Speaker 1: turned to the person next to them and say, start
Speaker 1: making a list of all the ways your life would
Speaker 1: improve if you own less stuff, And no one ever
Speaker 1: struggles to answer the question, Like when when you ask
Speaker 1: how would life improve if you owned less stuff? That
Speaker 1: the list just grow, So they're right, there's we would
Speaker 1: have more time, we would have more money, We would
Speaker 1: do less cleaning. We would have less stress in life.
Speaker 1: We would have fewer decisions that need to be made.
Speaker 1: It would be a better life for the environment. We
Speaker 1: would be a better example for our kids. It would
Speaker 1: be easier to find things in our house. We wouldn't
Speaker 1: need to constantly upgrade the size of our house. The
Speaker 1: average American home has tripled in size in the last
Speaker 1: fifty years, and still ten percent of American's rent off
Speaker 1: site storage. It would pave the way for for more
Speaker 1: contentment and more generosity and more gratitude. There's less comparison
Speaker 1: that we have with other people. We are able to
Speaker 1: own higher quality things. Um. Right, If I'm gonna own
Speaker 1: fewer anything, I can own a higher quality pairs of pants, watches, whatever,
Speaker 1: I mean, whatever it is. Um, fewer means I can
Speaker 1: own higher quality, less work for someone else. I mean,
Speaker 1: everything we own has to be dealt with at some
Speaker 1: point by somebody. Might as well do the work now, sure? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh, Joshua, You've also given minimalism credit for your
Speaker 1: ability to start a nonprofit, which is called the hope effect.
Speaker 1: You did that with your wife, Kim, So can you
Speaker 1: tell us about the hope effect? And how is minimalism
Speaker 1: responsible for your ability to do more good in the
Speaker 1: world around you too? Yeah? Well, how long do I have?
Speaker 1: Um as a time as you want? Man? Yeah. The
Speaker 1: I guess the medium length story is I started blogging
Speaker 1: becoming minimalist dot com. It was just going to be
Speaker 1: a journal, a diary of what I was getting rid
Speaker 1: of and what I was keeping, and it's uh, it
Speaker 1: quickly grew. We have over two million readers every single
Speaker 1: month and the social media reaches in the tens of
Speaker 1: millions that that cr CR post each and every week.
Speaker 1: And so at some point publishers come calling and they say, hey,
Speaker 1: can you can you write a book? And I actually
Speaker 1: had nine offers from publishers at the same time, and
Speaker 1: so I asked my agents, I said, what do we do?
Speaker 1: And he said, well, now they've been against each other
Speaker 1: to to see who who's going to pay the most
Speaker 1: for your book. It became pretty clear pretty early on
Speaker 1: that I was going to get offered a lot of
Speaker 1: money to write a book about how buying stuff won't
Speaker 1: make you happy and the irony and that for sure. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And so uh, we had cut our lifestyle down quite
Speaker 1: a bit. We had moved into a smaller home, so
Speaker 1: are our mortgage was less, We weren't buying a lot
Speaker 1: of things, and we just didn't need a lot of
Speaker 1: money to live our life. And so in conversations with Kim,
Speaker 1: we're like, what are we? Like, what are we gonna do?
Speaker 1: We're not going to buy bigger screen television, are we?
Speaker 1: And so we decided to solve a problem in the world.
Speaker 1: And man, there is decades worth of research that traditional
Speaker 1: orphanages are actually pretty harmful for kids. When you picture
Speaker 1: the four walls, a bunch of kids and workers coming
Speaker 1: in and out like little or like most people when
Speaker 1: they picture an orphanage, which is still used in most
Speaker 1: developing nations, that seventy to children that grow up in
Speaker 1: orphanages end up in homelessness, in prostitute san or incarcerated
Speaker 1: because brains just don't develop correctly outside of the family unit.
Speaker 1: And so our our mission with the Hope Effect is
Speaker 1: to to change how the world cares for orphans by
Speaker 1: by helping orphaned children get placed into families where they
Speaker 1: can receive the attention and affection that they should as
Speaker 1: opposed to being in an orphanage. And just to set
Speaker 1: like an orphanage is better than nothing, better than growing
Speaker 1: up on the streets. It's just not the the best
Speaker 1: way for for children to be raised. And so we
Speaker 1: so we work in Honduras and we work in Mexico.
Speaker 1: We just signed um sign an agreement with the with
Speaker 1: the Mexican government to to be one of the leading
Speaker 1: nonprofits to to help recruit and train families to care
Speaker 1: for orphaned children. So that's what the Hope Effect does.
Speaker 1: And because I buy less because I don't need to
Speaker 1: spend money on on stuff. I'm I'm able to uh
Speaker 1: to do something like this with it, and um, it's
Speaker 1: really exciting. I I can't think of a more fulfilling
Speaker 1: way to spend my money than help help orphan children
Speaker 1: have a chance at life. Yeah. Yeah, seriously, man, thanks
Speaker 1: so much for for sharing the mission you've got there. Um,
Speaker 1: it's amazing that through minimalism you've been able to do
Speaker 1: something big, right, like big and lofty, and I mean
Speaker 1: that's essentially the goal that that you've set forth in
Speaker 1: your books is that like, hey, like through this lifestyle,
Speaker 1: like through taking a different approach, you can implement these
Speaker 1: practices that you know, some of these tips, and you
Speaker 1: can completely change what it looks like to live in
Speaker 1: our world today from one of consumption and doing unwise
Speaker 1: things with our money to not only being financially responsible,
Speaker 1: but then to be able to go beyond that and
Speaker 1: do something amazing like what what you're doing. Um, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: we'll We'll ask you for some links here at the
Speaker 1: end of the end of the episode where folks can
Speaker 1: go there if they're looking to to donate Huner up
Speaker 1: Yeah and support you for sure. But um, but at
Speaker 1: the very least, we do want our listeners. You know,
Speaker 1: hopefully there'll be lots of nonprofits started after this conversation,
Speaker 1: maybe you know, years down the road. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, they don't even need to be started, like like,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of nonprofits are doing a lot
Speaker 1: of good work. And and that was, you know, the
Speaker 1: first question that we had to ask ourselves was do
Speaker 1: we do we start something new or do we partner
Speaker 1: with someone who's already doing good work? And it was
Speaker 1: it was not an easy question to answer, and we
Speaker 1: got asked it numerous times, and I'd like to think
Speaker 1: we fell on the right side of it. And you
Speaker 1: don't have to sign a big book deal to start
Speaker 1: helping out either, you know, so exactly. Yeah, Well, like so,
Speaker 1: at the very least, do we want our listeners to
Speaker 1: be able to have changed their life through minimalism hopefully
Speaker 1: uh to be able to contribute, to be able to
Speaker 1: get themselves in a better position financially. And so we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk more about ways to better ourselves when it
Speaker 1: comes to personal finance. We'll get to that after the break.
Speaker 1: All right, we're back from the break and we're talking
Speaker 1: with Joshua Becker, who writes about minimalism on his website
Speaker 1: Becoming Minimalist, and he's also written some great books. To Joshua,
Speaker 1: you mentioned in your book that Americans spend one point
Speaker 1: two trillion dollars annually on non essential goods and you
Speaker 1: talk you mentioned to that we spend three thousand, six
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty hours of our lives looking for the
Speaker 1: things we've misplaced. I swear I spent half of those
Speaker 1: hours just helping my wife find her cell phone. Um,
Speaker 1: So what kind of effects do you think frugality and
Speaker 1: minimalism have on each other? Like how closely related are they? Oh,
Speaker 1: that's a good question. Um. When I typically explain minimalism
Speaker 1: to people, I usually make a point to say that
Speaker 1: minimalism and frugality are not the same thing. Uh. There
Speaker 1: are a lot of people who pursue minimalism because they're frugal,
Speaker 1: but that's not always the case. And someone can pursue
Speaker 1: a minimalist life and spend just as much money even
Speaker 1: on physical possessions as they did before. If they're just
Speaker 1: buying a lot higher quality things with their money, then
Speaker 1: they can still spend just as much money. So in
Speaker 1: some ways. I believe very strongly that most people who
Speaker 1: pursue minimalism end up saving money in the long run.
Speaker 1: But it's not automatic that everyone who does that will
Speaker 1: start saving money. There still has to be the Okay,
Speaker 1: how if I want to save money, how can I
Speaker 1: pursue minimalism in a way that that allows me to
Speaker 1: do that? And if you if you start with that assumption,
Speaker 1: then certainly that you just you can see it all
Speaker 1: over right. I'm just I'm just buying less stuff. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm taking care of less stuff. We moved into a
Speaker 1: smaller home because we realized we didn't need as much
Speaker 1: square footage as we had, and so we saved a
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a month on our mortgage. Like there are
Speaker 1: there are very significant ways that that you can do that.
Speaker 1: I think probably the the most helpful connection that that
Speaker 1: people can see is that most people already have enough
Speaker 1: stuff already, Like there are enough clothes in your closet already,
Speaker 1: there's enough cookwear in your kitchen, there's enough tools in
Speaker 1: your garage, you have enough hobby gear already, And as
Speaker 1: you start donating clothes from your closet, the mind shift becomes, wait,
Speaker 1: I don't need to go buy more clothes. I had
Speaker 1: more than I needed. I don't need to go buy
Speaker 1: more cookwear. I'm getting rid of cookwaar, I don't need
Speaker 1: more towels. I'm getting rid of towels. And so the
Speaker 1: the consumption mindset that I that I need to go
Speaker 1: buy more things starts to change as we realize, wait,
Speaker 1: I I have more than I need, not I have
Speaker 1: to go buy more stuff already. Someone who wants to
Speaker 1: be frugal will find plenty more opportunities to be frugal
Speaker 1: pursuing a minimalist life. I guess it's probably what I've
Speaker 1: should have said. If someone doesn't want to be frugal,
Speaker 1: they could still pursue minimalism and spend even more money
Speaker 1: than they did before. But but someone who who wants
Speaker 1: to embrace those principles will find it easier to embrace
Speaker 1: those as they pursue a minimalist lifestyle. For sure, those
Speaker 1: powers combined or excellent. Yeah. Yeah, well, I guess like
Speaker 1: an example I can think of Joshua, is that kind
Speaker 1: of kind of counter that, that sort of the opposite
Speaker 1: of that. It was like, I'm thinking of maybe someone
Speaker 1: who has a bunch of stuff around, right like that
Speaker 1: they're keeping unused or barely used things, maybe in their
Speaker 1: attic or down on the basement in case that they
Speaker 1: need them, or maybe in case like they want to
Speaker 1: pull it out for like that one time of year
Speaker 1: that they might use it. And so like, I feel
Speaker 1: like that's an example where someone wouldn't necessarily consider themselves
Speaker 1: a minimalist if they're hanging onto all those things. And
Speaker 1: their argument would be that they are saving money to
Speaker 1: not have to purchase those things again. Okay, right, I
Speaker 1: could see that, right. The counter acting thought would be,
Speaker 1: do I really have to go buy that thing if
Speaker 1: I need to use it again? So kind of the
Speaker 1: classic examples are is our folding table. We got rid
Speaker 1: of our folding table and chairs, and then we decided
Speaker 1: we're going to host a party on Halloween, and we
Speaker 1: didn't have the folding table. And it took me about
Speaker 1: thirty seconds to call my neighbor who has a folding table,
Speaker 1: and we could we could borrow theirs. Certainly, especially in
Speaker 1: this sharing economy world that they were living in, Right, Like,
Speaker 1: being able to find something that I ended up needing
Speaker 1: isn't nearly as difficult as it might be if it
Speaker 1: is something that is rare, and my neighbor is not
Speaker 1: going to have it, and it's really expensive, and there's
Speaker 1: a really good chance that I'm going to need it
Speaker 1: in a couple of months. Then then I think, you
Speaker 1: hold onto it. But if it's yeah, I don't, I
Speaker 1: might need it some point. Then there there becomes two
Speaker 1: costs to that. There becomes the everything we own takes
Speaker 1: up physical space in our home, but it but it
Speaker 1: also takes up mental space in our in our mind.
Speaker 1: And so storing all those things, it's constantly there in
Speaker 1: our space, and we know it's there and we think
Speaker 1: about it. Plus how our how our mind begins to
Speaker 1: shift when we start realizing how much excess we have
Speaker 1: and when we start seeing all the things that we
Speaker 1: can get rid of, and life still goes on, and
Speaker 1: life even becomes more enjoyable by owning less. Then that
Speaker 1: brings about maybe an abundance mindset as opposed to have
Speaker 1: a scarcity mindset, that I that I need to hold
Speaker 1: onto these things. That it just begins to change the
Speaker 1: way I see the world and the way I see
Speaker 1: my things. Realizing that I actually have more than I need,
Speaker 1: not that I don't have enough stuff, and so I
Speaker 1: have to keep holding onto an accumulating things. Yeah. On that.
Speaker 1: On that note, Joshua, have you seen people kind of
Speaker 1: dip their toes in and then they kind of start
Speaker 1: to see how good it can be, and then they
Speaker 1: just kind of start to go go whole hog with
Speaker 1: it because they realize that starting to get there fixing
Speaker 1: you know, one aspect of their life in regards to
Speaker 1: minimalism and starting to declutter and and change their mindset.
Speaker 1: Have you seen people just kind of go a little
Speaker 1: bit and then feel realized, Oh, man, I gotta go
Speaker 1: the whole way? Or or usually is it? Does it
Speaker 1: happen quickly or does it usually? Is it usually a longer,
Speaker 1: more drawn out process? Oh? I think it happens in
Speaker 1: in any in every possible way, depending on a person's
Speaker 1: personality and family and uh starting point and what they're
Speaker 1: thinking about, stage of life, and any number of different things.
Speaker 1: But to answer your question, yeah, I think people certainly
Speaker 1: can can sample it a little bit and begin to
Speaker 1: see the benefits of it. In fact, it's it's the
Speaker 1: approach that I take when I encourage people. How do
Speaker 1: I start applying these principles in my home and in
Speaker 1: my life. My my first thought is go to the
Speaker 1: easiest room that you can minimize the possessions in and
Speaker 1: and complete that area. So like, go go to your
Speaker 1: car first and take everything out of your car that
Speaker 1: doesn't need to be there. Or go to your living
Speaker 1: room and take everything out of your living room that
Speaker 1: doesn't need to be there. And when you sit down
Speaker 1: in that space, it feels calmer and more peaceful, like
Speaker 1: you're able to focus on the people in the room
Speaker 1: rather than all the stuff around you. And and you'll
Speaker 1: find that you want that feeling in other areas or
Speaker 1: in other spaces. Or if someone were to like say, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm going to minimize my my clothes, for example, so
Speaker 1: like go to your closet and and pull out half
Speaker 1: of the clothes, and you don't have to burn them,
Speaker 1: like just go put them somewhere else for a little
Speaker 1: while and just keep your your favorite half of your
Speaker 1: clothes in your closet. And the very next morning, when
Speaker 1: you open your closet, you're like, this is kind of nice.
Speaker 1: Everything hanging here. I love, and I don't have to
Speaker 1: waste time deciding what to wear. It's easier to get ready,
Speaker 1: it feels less stressful, to get ready. So where else
Speaker 1: can I apply these principles of owning less? Right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean part of what drives consumption, especially when it
Speaker 1: comes to clothing. Oftentimes, I think, are these different desires
Speaker 1: that we have and when we seek to satisfy those
Speaker 1: desires with purchasing stuff, with material things in our lives?
Speaker 1: Can you share you know what you feel? Some of
Speaker 1: these different desires are that we have, and then how
Speaker 1: can we keep ourselves from trying to satisfy them with spending? Wow?
Speaker 1: You know I noticed it. And when I started donating
Speaker 1: things and taking things to Goodwill, I took a vanload
Speaker 1: of stuff to Goodwill and it was great, and the
Speaker 1: second vanload was great. By by about the third vanload
Speaker 1: of boxes and bags of things that I was dropping
Speaker 1: off at Goodwill, I I started to ask myself some
Speaker 1: pretty difficult questions, starting with why in the world did
Speaker 1: I have three van loads of things in my house
Speaker 1: that I didn't need? Like why when you get to
Speaker 1: the heart of the question, why do we buy more
Speaker 1: stuff than we need? Like what could possibly be motivating
Speaker 1: us to buy more things than we need to own
Speaker 1: in in order to live our life? And so I
Speaker 1: started asking myself that question, Like the more bags I
Speaker 1: filled and the more closets I opened and boxes I
Speaker 1: went through, and I don't know. I always say I
Speaker 1: didn't really like what I started to find out about myself.
Speaker 1: That I was probably motivated by jealousy, you know, trying
Speaker 1: to impress people with the things that I owned, or
Speaker 1: trying to prove that I was successful to my parents
Speaker 1: or or my brother that was maybe less secure, maybe
Speaker 1: a little more discontent in my life. Maybe I maybe
Speaker 1: I really was looking for possessions to bring about happiness.
Speaker 1: Maybe I was a sucker for sales. Um the best
Speaker 1: buy ad that used to come in the Sunday paper
Speaker 1: would compel me to go buy things, like there's a
Speaker 1: for some people with loneliness or boredom or overcoming stress,
Speaker 1: Like what are these triggers that cause us to go
Speaker 1: by things. It's probably where I separate myself a little
Speaker 1: bit from some of the other writers on the topic,
Speaker 1: because a lot of writers want to blame advertisers and
Speaker 1: marketing and society and culture, and certainly there's a a
Speaker 1: role that they play. We see like five thousand advertisements
Speaker 1: every single day, and so certainly those ads are but
Speaker 1: they're feeding into some internal unhealthy motivation. That's that's causing
Speaker 1: us to go to go, over consume, and and they
Speaker 1: vary from person to person. So how do you how
Speaker 1: do you overcome them? Um? I think that's a hard yeah,
Speaker 1: And certainly the first step is realizing what they are
Speaker 1: and being able to recognize them and articulate them. Probably
Speaker 1: the most helpful way that I've seen people get to
Speaker 1: that step is by embracing a shopping ban of some sort.
Speaker 1: Whether it's a two month shopping ban. Some people go
Speaker 1: a whole year, but that's pretty long, but most people
Speaker 1: I think could could go for four to six weeks
Speaker 1: without buying anything other than food, I guess, but just saying, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna spend the next two months and I'm not
Speaker 1: going to buy anything other than food or consumable toiletry items.
Speaker 1: And every time I have urge to shop, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: not going to and I'm just gonna kind of sit
Speaker 1: in that desire. What Why do I feel like I
Speaker 1: need to go shopping right now? Why do I feel
Speaker 1: like I need to go buy that newest, latest, greatest thing?
Speaker 1: Is it? Is it a healthy motivation or is it unhealthy?
Speaker 1: What is what is sparking some of those things. One
Speaker 1: lady one time told me she she had gone on
Speaker 1: a two month shopping ban, and she said she started
Speaker 1: to notice every time she had a bad day at work,
Speaker 1: she really wanted to stop at the mall on her
Speaker 1: way home, and usually she would just stop at the mall.
Speaker 1: She said, I didn't always buy anything, but sometimes I
Speaker 1: just walked through the store, walk through the hallway. That
Speaker 1: a lot of times I bought something, but not always.
Speaker 1: But for two months when I said I couldn't stop
Speaker 1: at the mall, I started to notice what days I
Speaker 1: felt that urge, and I started to realize that when
Speaker 1: I was really stressed at work, I would go try
Speaker 1: to alleviate that stress by buying something on my way home,
Speaker 1: or whenever I felt lonely or bored, I just want
Speaker 1: to fill the time by shopping. Um, whenever there's extra
Speaker 1: money in my bank account, I just want to go
Speaker 1: buy something. And recognizing what those are, I think that
Speaker 1: shopping band is probably the best way to do that,
Speaker 1: and then how you overcome it probably depends on what
Speaker 1: exactly it is that you're disc ring, but but typically
Speaker 1: there is a better way to meet that need in
Speaker 1: your hearts and in your life and in your soul
Speaker 1: than than buying something, certainly a longer lasting way to
Speaker 1: fulfill it. Man, I feel like we're demystifying some of
Speaker 1: those classical things. Maybe the parodies of minimalism that people
Speaker 1: have in their minds were really I mean, that was
Speaker 1: some really, really good stuff there, Joshua. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: for for people who want to get started actually going
Speaker 1: through the process of becoming a minimalist, we want to
Speaker 1: ask you questions on that subject, and we'll get to
Speaker 1: a couple of those right after the break. M Alright,
Speaker 1: we're back from the break and we're talking about minimalism
Speaker 1: with Joshua Becker, and so, Joshua, let's go ahead and
Speaker 1: talk about, like how we can implement these principles. How
Speaker 1: do we actually implement more minimalism into our lives? Right
Speaker 1: if we, like a lot of folks are swimming and
Speaker 1: stuff like, how do we even begin the process of
Speaker 1: decluttering our homes? Well, I would take a step back,
Speaker 1: and I would say that the first step is for
Speaker 1: people to articulate their bigger reason why they want to
Speaker 1: pursue minimalism. When I wrote my first book, The More
Speaker 1: of Less, and I met with a publisher and they said,
Speaker 1: what do you want to call it? I said, becoming
Speaker 1: minimalist and she said, well, you can't name it that.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, that's how this that's how this works.
Speaker 1: But she says, the reason you can't title it becoming
Speaker 1: minimalist is because becoming minimalist is the process that gets
Speaker 1: you to the promise, So that the goal of minimalism
Speaker 1: isn't to become minimalist. The goal of owning less is
Speaker 1: is something bigger. So name your book the promise and
Speaker 1: then I mean, what is the promise of minimalism? That's
Speaker 1: that's what you should title the book. And so we
Speaker 1: tell that the more of less finding the life you
Speaker 1: want under everything you own. And so the first step
Speaker 1: I think for people is to say, Okay, why does
Speaker 1: this appeal to me right now? What is it that
Speaker 1: I want to get out of minimalism? And it could
Speaker 1: be something as simple as I want to get out
Speaker 1: of debt. And so I'm gonna pursue minimalism so that
Speaker 1: I can get out of debt, or I'm going to
Speaker 1: pursue minimalism so that I can finally get ahead of
Speaker 1: my paychecks, or I'm gonna pursue minimalism so that I
Speaker 1: can reach a million dollar net worth, right, Like, yes, Tom,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pursue minimalism so I can spend more time
Speaker 1: with my family, so I can do more traveling. Like
Speaker 1: there's any number of different things that somebody might might pick.
Speaker 1: So I think it starts there and realizing it, and
Speaker 1: then and then from there. Certainly if you have a family, Uh,
Speaker 1: there's a conversation to be had um that that you're
Speaker 1: hoping to make some changes in your life and and
Speaker 1: in your home. And the greatest problem there is that
Speaker 1: it's easier to see everyone else's clutter than it is
Speaker 1: to see your own. So if you're listening to this
Speaker 1: podcast and and you want to pursue minimalism, you don't
Speaker 1: get started by having your husband or wife get rid
Speaker 1: of all their things. Like you, you get rid of
Speaker 1: your stuff, and you look for a common ground um
Speaker 1: with your spouse and with your partner, and then, like
Speaker 1: I mentioned a little bit earlier in the podcast, don't
Speaker 1: don't fall into the trap of I'm going to tackle
Speaker 1: the hardest thing first. I'm gonna start in my garage.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start in my basement. I'm gonna start by
Speaker 1: getting rid of my sentimental things. UM, start easy, starting
Speaker 1: your lived in areas that you can complete and finish
Speaker 1: and notice the benefits of owning less in one area
Speaker 1: of your life, and then you'll feel motivated and you'll
Speaker 1: have momentum to go tackle the next area and the
Speaker 1: next area. Jeffua, you you kind of talked a little
Speaker 1: bit earlier in the show about how as you were unpopping,
Speaker 1: unpacking boxes and bags and going through stuff, you were
Speaker 1: kind of going through the personal existential sort of thought
Speaker 1: process about stuff owning you. Well, what was the process
Speaker 1: like as you were kind of navigating it with your
Speaker 1: family and with your kids and with your wife. What
Speaker 1: were those conversations like and how difficult was that? So
Speaker 1: my kids were five and two, Um, and I have
Speaker 1: noticed that there are there are three types of relationships
Speaker 1: that emerge from this. There's the there's the spouse who says, hooray,
Speaker 1: where you've been, let's let's go. UM. There's a there's
Speaker 1: a spouse that says, i'm I'm in. I agree, but
Speaker 1: they differ on what that looks like in their home.
Speaker 1: And then the trickiest one to navigate is the spouse
Speaker 1: who says you can't get rid of anything in the home,
Speaker 1: And that's a pretty small percentage, but that's the toughest one.
Speaker 1: But for me, it was my wife was in the
Speaker 1: second boat, and so she was like, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: you're right. We we should make some changes here, which
Speaker 1: is where most people tend to be. Uh. It was
Speaker 1: just that we just agreed on how much stuff we
Speaker 1: were going to get rid of, and so if she
Speaker 1: wanted to get rid of, I want to get rid of.
Speaker 1: And so the first fifty felt pretty good. Um, and
Speaker 1: then I wanted to keep going, and she's like, I
Speaker 1: think we're at a good spot right here. Right. So
Speaker 1: that's so I could still focus on my own things.
Speaker 1: I could get rid of my my own things. In
Speaker 1: the end, we get rid of about sixty sev of
Speaker 1: our possessions over about a nine month nine month period.
Speaker 1: But my kids were five and two, and again I
Speaker 1: tell parents, you you can't go home and make your
Speaker 1: kids get rid of all their things. First, you do
Speaker 1: your own rooms, you do all your own stuff, and
Speaker 1: then you start putting these expectations on your kids. And
Speaker 1: the younger they are, the easier it is. By the
Speaker 1: time we got to my kids toy room and bedroom.
Speaker 1: Like he it's sing us for months taking boxes of
Speaker 1: things outside the house, and we've explained over and over again,
Speaker 1: this is why we're doing it, this is what we're
Speaker 1: hoping will come from that. And by the by the
Speaker 1: time we got to their their toys and their bedrooms,
Speaker 1: they knew it was coming and we were able to,
Speaker 1: I think, set some rational physical boundaries for them, like
Speaker 1: we're not getting rid of all of your toys. They
Speaker 1: just need to fit against this wall or they need
Speaker 1: to fit in this closet, and you get to decide
Speaker 1: what to keep and what to get rid of. It's
Speaker 1: certainly leading by example is a way to ease your
Speaker 1: family into it, and I think that's so smart. Well, Joshua,
Speaker 1: you like, so you're mentioning kind of going room by
Speaker 1: room basically and kind of working your way through your house.
Speaker 1: Like what you said, you said, start with the easier rooms,
Speaker 1: Like what are those easier rooms? Like what rooms do
Speaker 1: you recommend for folks to begin with when they are
Speaker 1: looking to make that change in their house. Well, they'll
Speaker 1: they'll change, Uh, they'll they'll change from from home to home.
Speaker 1: But the way I usually say it is easiest to hardest,
Speaker 1: starting with the most lived in areas first, So what
Speaker 1: is the easiest most lived in area of your home?
Speaker 1: And I know two superlatives isn't always helpful, but so
Speaker 1: like the living room is a great example for most people,
Speaker 1: because some living rooms becomes a storage area for a
Speaker 1: lot of things. In that case, it's not an easy
Speaker 1: room to start in. But for most places that most people, uh,
Speaker 1: the living room is a good place to start, and
Speaker 1: you spend time in there so you can finish it
Speaker 1: in an afternoon or in an evening and you can
Speaker 1: notice the benefits the next time your family sits in
Speaker 1: that room. The bedroom is also a usually somewhat easy
Speaker 1: place for for people to get started. Bathrooms like those
Speaker 1: are easier places, at least they were for me than
Speaker 1: the kitchen, the home office spaces that I use. But
Speaker 1: we're going to require a lot more time and effort
Speaker 1: and thought in order to experience the benefits of them.
Speaker 1: And Joshua, you know, we're we're a money podcast, and
Speaker 1: so a lot of times when people are getting rid
Speaker 1: of stuff, they might say, you know what I want
Speaker 1: to I want to sell some stuff and make some
Speaker 1: money based on the used things that I have that
Speaker 1: I'm no longer going to to have in my life.
Speaker 1: So when we're talking about the question of donating, selling, recycling,
Speaker 1: or tossing in the trash, sounds like you were loading
Speaker 1: up the van and taking things to the goodwill. How
Speaker 1: do you suggest people think through what they do with
Speaker 1: those things as they're parting with them. Well, probably a
Speaker 1: few things to think through. My My typical advice is
Speaker 1: if you don't need the money, then then just donate
Speaker 1: the stuff. But since it's the Money podcast and people
Speaker 1: are probably a little more focused on those things. So
Speaker 1: the problem becomes if you have a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: to go through, if you've lived in your home for
Speaker 1: twenty years and you have boxes and boxes of things,
Speaker 1: trying to sell all that stuff really as a lot
Speaker 1: of burden and time and stress and usually frustration to
Speaker 1: the process and doesn't usually bring back nearly as much
Speaker 1: financial reward as we think it's going to. There's some exceptions,
Speaker 1: things that are really expensive or things that are really
Speaker 1: large and you can't haulm away by yourself. Like there's
Speaker 1: some easy selling winds along the way, in which case, yeah,
Speaker 1: sell it, make the money along the way. But there's
Speaker 1: there's a certain joy that comes from generosity that that's
Speaker 1: selling items can't can't bring. I think the generosity tends
Speaker 1: to motivate people when they when they're getting rid of
Speaker 1: So my daughter was too, and so we were getting
Speaker 1: rid of all of the like baby and newborn and
Speaker 1: maternity items, and we stumble across the care Net Pregnancy
Speaker 1: Center in downtown Burlington, Vermont, and it took like one
Speaker 1: phone call with them to realize how much need there
Speaker 1: was in my city for those clothes and those baby
Speaker 1: supplies that were just being stored in boxes in my basement,
Speaker 1: like families who legitimately needed those items. It like sparked
Speaker 1: us to get rid of even more. I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: let's go back and find even more things that people
Speaker 1: in our community can use and need. So I tend
Speaker 1: to to defer to the donating side because I think
Speaker 1: it's more fulfilling. Um, but there's space for selling. One
Speaker 1: time someone was they were they were minimizing. There were
Speaker 1: new new couple and they just moved to a new
Speaker 1: city and they needed like bicycles to get around in
Speaker 1: the city to work, And oh my god, I think
Speaker 1: that would be a great goal. Like you sell your
Speaker 1: items until you make enough money to buy the bicycle
Speaker 1: that you can use to get you around to where
Speaker 1: you need to go. And um, so there's certainly freedom
Speaker 1: in that, but the hard part becomes bogging ourselves down
Speaker 1: with that pursuit. Nice, excellent, Joshua Man, this is this
Speaker 1: has been great stuff. I think our listeners have hopefully
Speaker 1: been able to glean a lot of what you're saying
Speaker 1: here and not only apply it to their physical life,
Speaker 1: right as far as just the possessions they have in
Speaker 1: their home. But you know, I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of parallels when it comes to our money as well,
Speaker 1: you know, as far as how we approach what it
Speaker 1: is that we're seeking after you kind of mentioned earlier
Speaker 1: on how we need to start with the Essentially, what
Speaker 1: I interpreted is that you said to start with the
Speaker 1: end in mind, and if you can kind of figure
Speaker 1: out the type of life that it is you want
Speaker 1: to live, that can kind of shape minimalism, right, Like
Speaker 1: minimalism doesn't have to look the same for you as
Speaker 1: it does that the dentist, you know, like all the
Speaker 1: different examples you gave, and I think that the same
Speaker 1: can be so true of our money when we have
Speaker 1: the end goal in mind and what we want to
Speaker 1: do with that money, then that kind of that drives
Speaker 1: us and feeds our soul to finish the task and
Speaker 1: not to get you know, not to fall off the
Speaker 1: wagon along the way. Yeah, it's it's essentially about tensionality.
Speaker 1: It's about being intentional with with my money and my
Speaker 1: time and my pursuits and making sure that all of
Speaker 1: my resources are aligned with UM, my values and the
Speaker 1: person I want to be and the life I want
Speaker 1: to end up living. Well, Joshua, we really appreciate you
Speaker 1: taking your time to spend with us and and sharing
Speaker 1: all your wisdom with our listeners. This was an excellent
Speaker 1: conversation for folks that do want more information that are
Speaker 1: really interested now in at least thinking about minimalism a
Speaker 1: good bit more. Yeah, how can they find out more
Speaker 1: about the stuff that you've written and what you're up to?
Speaker 1: Becoming minimalist dot com is the home base for everything
Speaker 1: that I do, And there's certainly books and um the
Speaker 1: hope effect, Hope effect dot com, But becoming minimalist dot
Speaker 1: com is the home base for for everything I do,
Speaker 1: and you can find anything else I'm doing and where
Speaker 1: I can be found from from there. Well, Joshua, thanks
Speaker 1: again so much for coming on the podcast pleasure and
Speaker 1: thanks for having me on. Yeah, Matt, that was an
Speaker 1: excellent conversation. I think I say that every time because
Speaker 1: we have just the best guest. Whoever does the guest
Speaker 1: booking for our show is awesome? Who does that? By
Speaker 1: the way, I think it's you and me. We're awesome,
Speaker 1: but there's ls on the back. But Joshua was even better.
Speaker 1: And so I want to know from you, like, what
Speaker 1: was your big takeaway from from our conversation with Joshua. Well, Joel,
Speaker 1: you know how I am about goals right, goal setting,
Speaker 1: Knowing the big picture, having an understanding of why it
Speaker 1: is that I'm doing something like that is so important
Speaker 1: to me as a human being, whether it be you know,
Speaker 1: just like a little project that I'm doing outside. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm the question I'm asking myself is how is this
Speaker 1: contributing to my larger plan? Like the larger goal I
Speaker 1: have for the yard, right, and it goes all the
Speaker 1: way to minimalism, Like Joshua was mentioning, how we need
Speaker 1: to start with our our goal in mind, and that
Speaker 1: kind of dictates what it looks like to be a minimalist,
Speaker 1: and I think it so applies to our money as well.
Speaker 1: We talked about this all the time, how how we
Speaker 1: need to start with the why behind our money, because
Speaker 1: if we don't really have a clear goal of what
Speaker 1: it is that we're trying to achieve, then it's gonna
Speaker 1: be difficult for us to do the hard work of
Speaker 1: not spending our money. But when we are informed and
Speaker 1: we have a clear goal that we're chasing after, that
Speaker 1: makes everything so easy. And something Joshua mentioned in his
Speaker 1: book that we actually didn't talk about, but was. He
Speaker 1: talked about how it's important to revisit these goals as well.
Speaker 1: A lot of times we don't exactly know what it
Speaker 1: is that we're seeking after because bottom line, our taste changed,
Speaker 1: like our opinions change, we have different goals. Our goals,
Speaker 1: you know, our chieese gets moved and it takes time
Speaker 1: to sort of recalibrate a little bit. And that's also
Speaker 1: true if you don't necessarily know what your goals are
Speaker 1: right now. Just because you don't know what your financial
Speaker 1: goals are, that doesn't mean that you fail to do
Speaker 1: smart things with your money, because eventually, through this process,
Speaker 1: you will figure it out what is that you want
Speaker 1: to spend your money on they'll come to light. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And the same thing with minimalism. You may not necessarily
Speaker 1: know what it is that you're trying to to achieve
Speaker 1: by having fear possessions, but through the process of minimizing
Speaker 1: your possessions, you're going to figure out what does whether
Speaker 1: it's more time with your family or maybe that means
Speaker 1: just having more mental space because you have fewer things
Speaker 1: kind of clouding your judgment. It still makes sense to
Speaker 1: do the smart things that we talk about a lot
Speaker 1: of times here on the show, even if you don't
Speaker 1: yet know what it is you're seeking after. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I really identify kind of with the more stuff taking
Speaker 1: up more mental space. Emily and I've been kind of
Speaker 1: taking some of these things to heart based on reading
Speaker 1: the books and lead up to this interview with Joshua,
Speaker 1: and it's making a difference already. I can tell the
Speaker 1: lack of clutter is really bringing some mental clarity when
Speaker 1: we're hanging out in our house, and that's so nice.
Speaker 1: I think my big takeaway from this episode was that
Speaker 1: you won't necessarily save money as a minimalist, but I
Speaker 1: gotta say, for our how to Money listeners, you will
Speaker 1: write the way our people should, yeah, the way our
Speaker 1: listeners are peeps, the way they approach money. If they
Speaker 1: begin to kind of consider the concepts of minimalism and
Speaker 1: begin to declutter and be generous with the things that
Speaker 1: they have that they're not actually using and they buy
Speaker 1: fewer things, I think they will save money implementing a
Speaker 1: shopping ban for a month or two, like Joshua suggested.
Speaker 1: I mean, those are those are ways that we're going
Speaker 1: to actually implement minimalism and save money at the same time.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the best of both worlds. If
Speaker 1: we begin to at least at minimum take some of
Speaker 1: these concepts. You don't have to go all the way
Speaker 1: full minimalist, and I think we address some of those
Speaker 1: misconceptions too. But if you can take some of the
Speaker 1: good or all the good for minimalism either either way,
Speaker 1: however far you want to dive into it, I think
Speaker 1: by embracing that at the same time, you will if
Speaker 1: you're how to money listener be embracing frugality their cousins.
Speaker 1: They're not the same. But if if you kind of
Speaker 1: take both hand in hand at the same time, and
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna have a big difference, a major
Speaker 1: impact in your life going forward. Yeah, totally. Man, I
Speaker 1: think that the shopping bands it's a good way to
Speaker 1: kind of self experiment a little bit and figure out
Speaker 1: how you're gonna take to it a little bit and
Speaker 1: hopefully you will be able to see that there are
Speaker 1: some amazing ways that you can save money that way.
Speaker 1: But do let's take it to the beer. On this episode,
Speaker 1: we had I Feel at All, which is a beer
Speaker 1: by Monday Night Brewing. This is one that's actually this
Speaker 1: is one of the three beers that we gave away
Speaker 1: the Instagram actually a few weeks ago. So if you're
Speaker 1: not following us on Instagram, look up how to Money pod.
Speaker 1: If you're not following us on Instagram, what are you
Speaker 1: doing with your life? But ba Joel, what were your
Speaker 1: thoughts on this beer? Well, Man, this beer is called
Speaker 1: I Feel at All. I felt the hops. Uh, it
Speaker 1: really did have hop concentrate sort of levels of hoppiness
Speaker 1: going on. But man, and for me in a good way.
Speaker 1: I know some people can get hopped out, can be overhopped,
Speaker 1: and I'm not one of those people. I've not found
Speaker 1: a beer yet where it's been too hoppy, and so
Speaker 1: this was a ridiculous amount of hops in there. I
Speaker 1: felt it was like super green, super tasty, super alive,
Speaker 1: and I loved it. I think the green little alligators
Speaker 1: on the label they're kind of lends itself to like
Speaker 1: the herbal nature of hops as well. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: like the la cost uh, Like that's totally like it's
Speaker 1: kind of like that, but it's like this repeating batter.
Speaker 1: I really, I really did this design, but yeah, this
Speaker 1: is a hazy New England style I p A. So
Speaker 1: when we board it, man, it was super cloudy, like
Speaker 1: you could not see through it at all, and it
Speaker 1: had more of that sort of sharp hot flavor. It
Speaker 1: makes me think of cheese, right, like you've kind of
Speaker 1: got your mild or meat, like your regular cheddar cheese,
Speaker 1: but then you get the sharp stuff and it kind
Speaker 1: of has like this like it bites a little bit,
Speaker 1: you know, like it's sharp cheddar and you kind of
Speaker 1: feel it on your tongue a little bit more. And
Speaker 1: I feel like that's how it is with hops sometimes,
Speaker 1: like when you have some of these New England style
Speaker 1: I p A s that do have a lot of hops,
Speaker 1: sometimes it feels like a sharp cheese And isn't the
Speaker 1: first time I've alluded to cheese before when it comes
Speaker 1: to these bears, but this one had a similar thing
Speaker 1: going on. I really dug it, and I'm glad that
Speaker 1: you and I got to share this one today, Buddy, Man,
Speaker 1: pick that up at the beer's release at Monday Night Brewing.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, man, we're big fans. We go out once
Speaker 1: every six months, and this is one of those times. Exactly. Well, man,
Speaker 1: that's gonna be it for this episode. Our listeners can
Speaker 1: find our show notes up at how some Money dot com. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: We've had so many great reviews from our listeners, but
Speaker 1: I do want to ask if you have a friend
Speaker 1: that could use a kick in the pants when it
Speaker 1: comes to living a minimalist lifestyle, spending less money, saving
Speaker 1: more of what you make, well, then we would suggest
Speaker 1: letting your friend know about the how the Money podcast.
Speaker 1: Maybe sneaking their phone, hitting a subscribe button for them,
Speaker 1: whatever it takes, Okay, just hold that phone up in
Speaker 1: front of their face so it gets that facial recognition
Speaker 1: in the slipe over a podcast. Real quick, make it happen,
Speaker 1: And especially with this episode, man, This is such a
Speaker 1: fun conversation that we had with Joshua Becker. I think
Speaker 1: this can be a kind of a soft introduction to
Speaker 1: personal finance, where it's not so money on the nose,
Speaker 1: not too in your face. But all right, Matt, that's
Speaker 1: gonna do it for this episode. Until next time. Best
Speaker 1: Friends Out, Best Friends Out,