1 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: Hi, guys, It's I Do Part two and I am 2 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 1: one of your celebrity mentors, Jen Fessler, and today I 3 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 1: am so weak and excited because normally I'm talking with 4 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: I'm talking. We usually talk to like celebrities on the show. 5 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: This celebrity is actually none other than my sister, Robin Gutterman. 6 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: And she's not really a celebrity, but she's a celebrity 7 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: to us. 8 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 2: Hi, Robbie, Hi, Jenny. So happy to be here. 9 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: Oh, I am thrilled to have you. And like most people, 10 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: you guys, though, she has gone into Robin's rather unique story. 11 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: So firstly, a little bit about I guess just us. 12 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: So you guys may think that Robin is the older one, 13 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: just based on looks, but I'm actually fourteen months older 14 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: than my sister. Yes, and she's always been perfect, beautiful, 15 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: little blonde. Not sure one of you, It is so true. 16 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: And uh, but Robin and I are as we've gotten older. 17 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: I mean we had our fights right over the years, 18 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: you did. There's a time actually with your second husband, 19 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: who we can remain nameless, but where we didn't speak 20 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: for like over a year, right. 21 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we did and get along during that relationship 22 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 2: I think you aren't happy with that relationship at all, 23 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: and it was a tough one for you to watch. 24 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 2: I think, yeah, it was. 25 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: But it doesn't really matter when it comes to sisters. 26 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: You know, we're Robin and I are very very close. 27 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: So we're going to get into all things Robin's love life. 28 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: So Robbie, let's just like, you know, this show is 29 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: about love the second time around. And in our family, 30 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,559 Speaker 1: a lot of times there's a second time around, there's 31 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: the third time around, there's the fourth time around. Our 32 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: parents have been married and divorced. I don't know you 33 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: want to count. I mean I think seven six or 34 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: seven come between them? Yes, yes for mom, Yes, well 35 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,399 Speaker 1: now add me in and now yes yes. 36 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: And you're the only one who's been on the first Yeah. 37 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: But you know what, I host the show because I'm 38 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: also kind of on my part two in the sense 39 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: that we were separated for a year and a half 40 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: and things definitely changed after that. But for once, you'll 41 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: be happy to hear Robin, it's not about me, all right, 42 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: So let's just like, you know, talk a little bit 43 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: about let's go one marriage at a time. So Robin 44 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: has been married, Oh you tell everybody. 45 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 2: I've actually been married three times. 46 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: Married three times, divorced three times. So but we'll get 47 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: you know, let's start with your first marriage. Tell us 48 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: a little bit about how you met your first husband, 49 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: what that was like, what you think happened there, how 50 00:02:59,360 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: that ended in. 51 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: My first husband I met in college in Austin and 52 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 2: we were best friends. Our personalities were very similar. We 53 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 2: just we were kind of the partiers and we had 54 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 2: a little group of partiers and we were just friends. 55 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 2: But I started to like him, and I was actually 56 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 2: dating someone at the time, and I started to like him, 57 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 2: and I moved to New York after college, and he 58 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 2: moved back to Miami, and we remained friends, and he 59 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 2: started coming for business to New York and we ended 60 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 2: up going out one night and that was it. We 61 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 2: were dating long distance for a year. I think it 62 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 2: was a little over a year, and then he basically said, 63 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 2: either you need to move to Miami or you know, 64 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: this is over, because he didn't want to continue with 65 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 2: the long distance. All right, why not? I was living 66 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 2: in New York City at the time, waiting tables, had 67 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 2: just finished getting my graduate degree, and so I moved 68 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 2: and you know it, he was my best friend, the 69 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 2: person that I laugh with. I don't know if I 70 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 2: ever felt a crazy in love spark. I felt a 71 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 2: you'd be the best father. You have a phenomenal family, 72 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: and we were best friends. And he was Jewish. I 73 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 2: mean he kind of checked all the boxes, right, he 74 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: was good looking, tall. 75 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: We all loved him. 76 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 2: I mean yeah, everyone loved him. 77 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: Everyone our family loved him. 78 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean he's just good people. Like, there's nothing 79 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 2: that I can really say in a negative way about 80 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 2: who he is as a person. 81 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: Do you think do you think that when you were 82 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: walking down the aisle, did you know it was wrong? 83 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: Like I think about how Mamma always says that when 84 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: she was walking down the aisle with Dad, she knew 85 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: it was wrong, and Grandma had no problem telling her 86 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: she was making a mistake. 87 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 2: I think I got emotional before I walked down the 88 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 2: aisle because my friend was actually getting together with a 89 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 2: guy I used to date on the day of my wedding, 90 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 2: and I had like a little tinge left of feeling 91 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 2: for him. So I was walking down the aisle and 92 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 2: that was the thing I was thinking about, you know, like, 93 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 2: f you you're sitting here dating someone I dated I don't. 94 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know with our family what 95 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 2: I thought I was supposed to feel or have. I 96 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: just thought that he was going to be just a 97 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 2: great man to be with, you know, he was just 98 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: going to be He was smart, ambitious, you know, had 99 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: a business degree. I mean, he checked he checked the boxes, 100 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 2: and he was friends and that's just I just thought 101 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: that it was going to be him. 102 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: So you guys were married. How many years was it. 103 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: I think it was seven when you had Jake and Danielle. 104 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: And what do you think happened? 105 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 2: Well, we ended up there was a period of time where, 106 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 2: you know most men, he was the bread winner for 107 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 2: a minute, and he had a business with his parents, 108 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 2: and they shut down his business in Miami, and so 109 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 2: I think he fell into quite a bit of a depression. 110 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 2: It was the only thing that he had really known. 111 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 2: They were in the toy business, and so I think 112 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 2: it was really really difficult for him after that. And 113 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 2: at the same time, I had decided I wanted to 114 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 2: get a second master's degree, so I was looking at 115 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 2: doing that, and then I got an opportunity in Boca. 116 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 2: We were living in Weston at the time. I got 117 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 2: an opportunity in Boca to run a treatment center, and 118 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 2: so my salary went. 119 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: Up because she would just just tell the people. So 120 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: Robin is a therapist, yes, and was specializing in the 121 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: time in drug and alcohol. 122 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, an addiction addiction. So I had gotten an opportunity 123 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,799 Speaker 2: to run a treatment center, a big treatment center in Boca, 124 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 2: and so my career was kind of going up up, 125 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 2: and he could not find the right job for him 126 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 2: at all, and he was very depressed. He was kind 127 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: of became a stay at home dad. He was the 128 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 2: one taking the kids to school and picking them up, 129 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 2: and he was basically in his underwear every day on 130 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 2: a laptop, trying to create business in the same field. 131 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 2: And it wasn't working out, and my life was crazy. 132 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: I was driving an hour back and forth from Boca 133 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 2: to Weston every single day, leaving early in the morning, 134 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 2: getting home late. And I don't think that helped our 135 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: marriage at all. There was no nurturing going on in 136 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 2: the marriage. It was really just about the kids and 137 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 2: work at that point in time. And then, if I'd 138 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 2: be brutally honest about it all, I ended up meeting 139 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: someone while I was working at the rehab and ended 140 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: up having an affair and he found out about it. 141 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: When you look back on that, do you word do 142 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: you think it without if you hadn't had an affair, 143 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: do you think you guys would still be married? 144 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 2: You know, it's funny people ask me that all the time. 145 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, when I talked to the kids, 146 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 2: they say, absolutely not. We wouldn't have. But there was nothing. 147 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 2: He is an awesome person, you know, as a whole person. 148 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 2: He's a good person. I don't always think he was 149 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: the best parent, but he is. He was a good husband, 150 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 2: and he was a good friend. And I can't say 151 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 2: anything negative. I just think I was never really in 152 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,239 Speaker 2: love with him, and I found someone that I became 153 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 2: head over heels with and unfortunately he found out about it. 154 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: We tried to make it, and he also, right, you 155 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: guys tried and he didn't want it to end. I 156 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: remember him saying to me back then. I think I 157 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: said to him at one point his name is, well, okay, 158 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: we're not going to say his name. Actually, like you 159 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: gotta you should you should go. This is not because 160 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: I knew that you were. You had checked out the marriage, right, I. 161 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 2: Had definitely checked out. I would probably say, talking about addiction. 162 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 2: I came into this almost obsessive addicted state with the 163 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 2: person that I was seeing at the time, and it 164 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 2: was a lot. It was a lot things that happened. 165 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 2: We tried to go to couples counseling, and you know, 166 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 2: of course, the contingency was I could never talk to 167 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 2: this guy again, see him again, whatever it was. And 168 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 2: I knew why I was doing couples counseling. I was 169 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 2: not going to stop. I had no doubt in my mind. 170 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 2: I thought maybe I could go to counseling and the 171 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 2: counseling would put my head back in the right direction. Right, 172 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 2: your family, your kids, all the things that people talk 173 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 2: to me about on a daily basis, right, their priorities, 174 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 2: their work, their family, you know, their home, all of 175 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 2: those things. And people don't get divorced for that reason 176 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 2: most of the time. In my profession and now I 177 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 2: work as a marriage therapist, which is the most hilarious, 178 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 2: but at this point that's what I hear about. People 179 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 2: don't want to get divorced because they don't want to 180 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 2: mess up the kids and their of what would happen 181 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 2: to them. I didn't have any of that fear of 182 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 2: what was going to happen to my kids. I knew 183 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: I was a great mom, but I figured give it 184 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 2: a shot, maybe something in me would change with the counseling. 185 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: But I know, all these years, all these years later, 186 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: you've said to me, and it always sticks with me. 187 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: You always say, like, how well, you don't really get 188 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: jealous of me, and I don't get jealous of you. 189 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 2: There's one thing I'm jealous of you for Jeff Fessler. 190 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: Jeff Fessler, not Jeff Besler per se, my marriage. Correct, 191 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: because you have said to me right like like that. 192 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: You I guess at the time when we came from 193 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: so much divorce, even when when I was separated, I 194 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: wasn't I just thought that's how the world worked. I 195 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: wasn't really that worried about my kids. Yeah, I was 196 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: worried about them, of course, It's natural to be. And 197 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: then when I saw how sad they were, Like they 198 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 1: would go with Jeff away for a weekend or he 199 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: would take them and they would come back distraught. And 200 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: I don't think, well, actually when we would leave, when 201 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: we would we would I would leave Dad. I was 202 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: we had that sad. But the thing is I didn't 203 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: foresee it to me. Divorce is just that's what people do, 204 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: you know. Then all of a sudden, I was like, 205 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: wait a second, yeah, and I was sick. The kid 206 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: thing was brutal. 207 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 2: Your kids were older, though, yeah, right, my kids were 208 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 2: three and four years old. I don't even think the 209 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 2: only conversation, the only thing they remember, which Jake likes 210 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 2: to tell me my twenty seven year old that the 211 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 2: only thing he remembers about us living together was the 212 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 2: day that we sat them down and told them we 213 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 2: were getting divorced. Now my son, my son doesn't remember 214 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 2: what he did yesterday, but but okay, yeah, that's what 215 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 2: he says. 216 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,719 Speaker 1: I remember telling my kids that day. I remember all 217 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: of that. I remember Rachel saying to me, what about 218 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: all our traditions? What about what about going to Rachel? 219 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: I know, and I'm sick even saying it out loud. 220 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: I want to throw up. But I guess I would 221 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: just talking about it because weighing it now, you know, 222 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: and knowing that you feel that way, and you didn't 223 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 1: realize you were going to feel that way maybe at 224 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: the time, just like I don't think I realized how 225 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: hard it was going to be watching my kids deal 226 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: with it but anyway, But would you do it differently? 227 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't do it differently. But just as you 228 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 2: had started saying the moments that we're like at Thanksgiving, right, 229 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 2: because no one in our family is divorced except for me. 230 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: And it's weird because I always thought to think of 231 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 1: I always think everyone's divorced, but. 232 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 2: Of our kids, of our all of us, right, the kids, Yeah, 233 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 2: all the I'm the only one divorced. So when you 234 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 2: guys are preparing things and fun things are coming up 235 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 2: and making family memories, I'm making them. But they're the 236 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 2: connection that you guys have right with your children together, 237 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 2: That bond, I guess is what I always say to you. 238 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: I don't have that. 239 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 2: I don't have that, and that's definitely sad for me. 240 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: That makes me sad. I just want to cry. 241 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 2: Everything makes you want to cross. I mean, if I 242 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 2: was to go back, no, I wouldn't change it, do 243 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 2: I feel. Listen, the kids know about the affair. I 244 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 2: was never dishonest with my children when they were old 245 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 2: enough to know. Marriages though, don't die from an affair. 246 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 2: They die from the things that led up to the 247 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 2: affair that you didn't deal with and of course, the 248 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 2: betrayal from the affair hits differently than other things that 249 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 2: are problematic in a marriage. 250 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: But it's so funny. While you're saying this, I'm thinking, 251 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: I wanted you to come on to tell your story 252 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: and we could just spend a whole session because you're 253 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: you're a marriage counselor like that whole part of it. 254 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you know what I was telling Heather, 255 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: my producer. I got to have my sister on. She's 256 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: been through it, not at all thinking but it's different. 257 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: This is personal, this is your stuff. That's you know, 258 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: a different discussion. 259 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 2: It's personal, but it's also you know, interesting that I 260 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 2: ended up doing this right because this is where I 261 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 2: feel probably the most connected with my client and my 262 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 2: ability to jump in and understand where they're at. 263 00:13:54,240 --> 00:14:06,079 Speaker 1: So I was going to ask you, like, after the divorce, 264 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: what was dating like? And of course now I'm thinking, 265 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: there wasn't dating. You were in a relationship, and that's 266 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: what you tell our listeners a little bit about that. 267 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 2: That's the one that I would probably say in a 268 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 2: lot of ways, I end up regretting emotionally. 269 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: For sure, you got married again. 270 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 2: We did, and I guess for some reason that made 271 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 2: my ex husband, my first husband, actually feel better. He 272 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 2: said that to me once, that I didn't just have 273 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 2: an affair and that was it. I ended up getting 274 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 2: married to the guy that I divorced him like it. 275 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: Was more like it was more important. You didn't just 276 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: give up on the marriage for ruffling. Right. 277 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 2: He was a very different person than I had probably 278 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 2: ever met before I met him. 279 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: He was exactly like your father. I don't know what 280 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: you're talking about. 281 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 2: I met him when I was working at the rehab. Yes, 282 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 2: they both have narcissistic traits, but at the time, right 283 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 2: one who gets suckered by someone who has narcissism. He 284 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 2: was the most charming person in the room. He would 285 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 2: walk in and command attention. He had gone through it. 286 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 2: He was an addict in recovery, and right into recovery, 287 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 2: he had opened up a halfway house. He came from 288 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 2: his Egyptian so he had come from a very well 289 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 2: to do family in Boston, so he was highly educated. 290 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 2: He had a nursing degree, but was a drug addict. 291 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 2: So he was in recovery ended up very quickly like 292 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 2: moving up the ranks in Boca. He had come down 293 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 2: for treatment from Boston and ended up staying anyway. So 294 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 2: when we first met, it was almost an immediate attraction. 295 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: Do you think you're addicted to him? Speaking of think 296 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: you said that before? Oh yeah, we lost you, you 297 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: were gone. 298 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and listen, there was maybe that piece that he 299 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 2: definitely had traits of her father. He was brilliant, for sure. 300 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 2: He was the most driven person I've ever met. He 301 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 2: basically took himself out of the slums to being I 302 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 2: don't know, worth about eighty million dollars now. He built 303 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 2: an entire rehab but along the way. I met him 304 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 2: when he was first starting out, but I knew that 305 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 2: he was going to be successful. He made me laugh. 306 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: He flagged his wealth because I know he came from 307 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: a wealthy family. 308 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 2: He didn't come No, he didn't come from a wealthy family. Initially, 309 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 2: they were actually very very poor. They came over from 310 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 2: Egypt when they were eighteen years old to go to school. 311 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: So Dad went to Harvard, Mom went somewhere else. They 312 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 2: were very poor, and Dad made his money in his profession. 313 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: Got it, but. 314 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 2: Yes he did. They made a lot of money over time. 315 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 2: He was in real estate in Boston and was a 316 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 2: nurse as well. And yes, one of the traits of 317 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 2: his was when he started making money, the whole world 318 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 2: had to know he was making money. I mean, it 319 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 2: was so narcissistic. I have more than you. I remember 320 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 2: when he told Randy, my best friend Randy, the first 321 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 2: time he met her, he said, how much do you make? 322 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 2: This is how much I make. I bet I make 323 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 2: more than you. She still brings it up. Yeah, So listen. 324 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 2: He was driven and dedicated and charming, and I was enamored. 325 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:25,239 Speaker 2: I really had never met anybody like him before in 326 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 2: that capacity, and I was taken in. 327 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: Do you think that you were because I'm comparing it 328 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: to your first marriage, right, that was I don't think 329 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: you ever scared of your first husband, But I alway 330 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 1: felt like you were a little scared of your second. 331 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 2: You always say that, which is so interesting. 332 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 1: Is it not true. 333 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 2: I was never physically scared of him. I don't think 334 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 2: I was emotionally of losing him. Yes, that's what I 335 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 2: was scared of. 336 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 1: Right. 337 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,239 Speaker 2: I always felt like I loved him more than he 338 00:17:54,280 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 2: loved me. He's Muslim, and the way that he's sees 339 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 2: the world was that we were never going to be partners. 340 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 2: As long as he made more money than I did, 341 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 2: we were never going to be partners. So what happened 342 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 2: in the end, I mean this relationship was it became 343 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 2: very emotionally abusive. It was I worked for him and 344 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 2: he had a. 345 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: Rehab literally right, literally. 346 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 2: I worked for him. He had a humongous rehab in Boca. 347 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 2: I was the clinical director. And when we started having 348 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 2: problems in our marriage, a lot of times it was 349 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 2: related to our communication, and the communication being if I 350 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 2: didn't agree with you, that I was being dramatic and 351 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 2: there was something wrong with me. Very narcissistic, right, that's 352 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 2: the twist. Narcissists make you feel like you're crazy. Right, 353 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 2: They're always right. They're always waiting to fill their ego. 354 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 2: If you do something that doesn't fill their ego, then 355 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: you're the problem. So you know, it was I was 356 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 2: so obsessed with him and keeping him, but he had 357 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: all the power in the relationship. I worked for him, 358 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 2: he paid my salary. The home we lived in initially 359 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 2: was his home. I moved my kids into his home, 360 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 2: so there was nothing in my life. As he was 361 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 2: on the up and up in his career, he was 362 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 2: great and generous with money, phenomenally so, because that was 363 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 2: also the thing that helped to fuel his ego. He 364 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: helped my kids financially, he paid for camp, he paid 365 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 2: for bar mitzvahs, he did all of those things. But 366 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 2: he was completely and utterly emotionally abusive. 367 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: Right I think about how that affected all Although it 368 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: certainly affected our relationship, it was just hard for me 369 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: to watch it. I guess. 370 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 2: Yes, Listen, I always stood up for myself. Let's not 371 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 2: keep myself. I am not some you know, shrinking violet. No, 372 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 2: I am not a shrinking violet. There was never a 373 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 2: time that I did not open up my mouth and 374 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 2: give my side. But it didn't matter what my side was, 375 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 2: because I was always. 376 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: Wrong in the end. What do you think was the clincher? 377 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 2: Honestly, he'll never admit it, but he was cheating on 378 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 2: me at that point. I think he was cheating on me. 379 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 2: He had a gambling problem at the time as well, 380 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 2: and I think that he was going out. Who knows 381 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 2: if he had cheated on me before he had relapsed 382 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 2: at one point, But that really wasn't a big part 383 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 2: of the issue. To be honest with you, I have 384 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 2: great boundaries when it comes to relapse, and he didn't really, 385 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 2: at least while we were married. I was told that 386 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 2: he did at times drink, but he never did it 387 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 2: around me, and I couldn't prove anything. But at the 388 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 2: end of the day, it was what I believe was 389 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 2: an affair, what I believe was impulsive behavior in a 390 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 2: lot of different ways. If you were to ask him, 391 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 2: he would say that the wedding was us getting married 392 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 2: was wrong from day one. That's what he likes to 393 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 2: tell people. 394 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: When you look back on it, would you do it again? 395 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,919 Speaker 2: No? I think it was a toxic relationship, and I 396 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 2: was definitely part of the toxicity. You know, in terms 397 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 2: of you have to be a really great codependent to 398 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 2: be with a narcissist. 399 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: Robin, I am that I have to write that down. 400 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: I'm sure you said it to me before. I have 401 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: put quotes around it and make it into a poster. 402 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of that piece of you end up 403 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 2: when people you say that you're codependent, it's really that 404 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 2: you kind of begin to do things at the expense 405 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 2: of your own values. You cross your own lines of 406 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 2: things you never said, you do things you never said 407 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 2: that you'd put up with right, things that you felt 408 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 2: that you never thought that you would stay involved in 409 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 2: something that you felt hopeless in, and your whole life 410 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 2: becomes about making the other person happy, trying to identify 411 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 2: with the other person, Right, you lose your own identity 412 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 2: for the sake of fitting into somebody else's and I 413 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 2: think that's what happened. And by that time you get 414 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 2: so worn down emotionally that you almost begin to believe 415 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 2: that you or the problem. 416 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, just in terms of family and 417 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: how all this affects family. So we didn't talk for 418 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: a lot of that marriage. You were orn't married for 419 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: that long? How how long were you actual? 420 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 2: Years? 421 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 1: Four years? So we probably didn't speak half. I don't remember. 422 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: We didn't speak when you got married, we didn't well. 423 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 2: We were together for eleven years, interestingly. 424 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 1: Enough, Yeah, during that marriage, that was when we were like, 425 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: I almost didn't go to the wedding, and then we 426 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: stopped speaking, but that we reconciled. I think the day 427 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: the day like you were, you knew that you guys 428 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 1: were in trouble, and you reached out to me and 429 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: you're like, I need my sister. Yeah, But I mean 430 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 1: I think we didn't speak because I just didn't like 431 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: the way you were when you were around him. I 432 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: didn't like. I didn't I wasn't a fan, you know, 433 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 1: he he and I just we butted heads. But I 434 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: mean for you and I not to speak, and I 435 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: was also going through my As a matter of fact, 436 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: is that when I was separated. 437 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 2: That's when you came to Florida for the summer. 438 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: That right, That's when I went to Florida and for 439 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: that summer Jeff and I had separated, And I meant, 440 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: I think you were a big Jeff Essler fan. You 441 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: probably could see that I was, you know, fucking things 442 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: up in my life, my own life. We just but 443 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 1: I don't. 444 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 2: Think you could see that at the time either. I 445 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 2: don't think just kind of like when people were telling 446 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 2: me what I was doing, and I was so invested 447 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 2: in what I was doing, I couldn't see it. I 448 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 2: don't think at that time you were able to see 449 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 2: the concern about, you know, some of what was going 450 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 2: on on your end of it. I think it was 451 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 2: just I don't know, you tell me, I don't know 452 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 2: what it was for you. 453 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: I mean, my sh is so complicated. I think that 454 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: a lot of it had to do with our childhood 455 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: that I thought I was always so insecure growing up 456 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: and so miserable and needed this tension from men. I 457 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: think I had such daddy issues. I mean, Jeff had 458 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: an affair obviously that set things in motion, but we'd 459 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: stop connecting. Really, I mean, we were the cliche seven 460 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: year itch and the kids, the kids, the kids, and 461 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: we weren't focused at all on each other. And I 462 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 1: didn't feel the spark. And I defined spark today very 463 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: differently than I did when I was in my thirties. 464 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 2: It was also that attention piece for you too, I 465 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 2: think at that point, yeah, especially after how you felt 466 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 2: with the betrayal, Yes, of what happened. I think you 467 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 2: were looking to be filled right by something outside of 468 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 2: you that was just going to make you feel better. 469 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: Yes, but I'm going to try to not make this 470 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 1: all about me, which you know is difficult. That you 471 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: have my narcissistic tendencies. 472 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 2: I don't think anyway. 473 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 1: So all right, so that marriage ends, and that was 474 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: you had a road to recovery. Certainly that was not easy. 475 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 2: That was brutal. 476 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: Were you thinking, like, first of all, did you think 477 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: you'd ever get married again after that? No? 478 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 2: Because I didn't know how I was going to live 479 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 2: another day without a minute, to be honest with you, Yeah, 480 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 2: and if it wasn't for you guys and another friend 481 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 2: who literally basically took care of my kids with me 482 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 2: but was at my house every night for a year, 483 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 2: and you know, my best friend in Dallas. But I 484 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 2: think that for me, it was just how am I 485 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 2: going to breathe in and out? And that's the destruction 486 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 2: of being in such a narcissistic relationship is I didn't 487 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 2: even know who, what where I was coming from after 488 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 2: that marriage, how I was going to live without this 489 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 2: guy who was emotionally abusive, because that's what I had 490 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 2: learned was okay, And I literally did, like I didn't 491 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 2: know how I was going to survive it. It was 492 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 2: the worst year or two of my life for sure. Yeah, 493 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 2: it was hard one. 494 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: And then he started dating again. You had several boyfriends, actually, right, that. 495 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 2: Is when I did a Jen Fessler. So I decided 496 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 2: I was going to date every human on the planet 497 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,239 Speaker 2: and just have fun and not care. That's what I 498 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 2: was going to do, Like whatever, I don't want any 499 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,479 Speaker 2: big series this. Oh I had a blast. I had 500 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 2: a blast. I probably dated more guys in two years 501 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 2: than I dated my. 502 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: Entire life, right, yeah, right right? And so so I mean, 503 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: would you recommend that to people because personally, I don't 504 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 1: mean professionally, but after divorce, like you jumped into the 505 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 1: first marriage the second marriage when you ended up getting 506 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 1: married again, but you would say. 507 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 2: Absolutely, for first, take care of you, make sure you're healed, 508 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 2: right that you know, put someone under you to get 509 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 2: over the other thing. What is that expression? 510 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: But yeah, you do, that's dad, our father. Is it 511 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,479 Speaker 1: the only way to get over someone is to get 512 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: under under? Yes, I don't necessarily, I don't necessarily. 513 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 2: Curtly think that, but I think that rebuilding yourself is 514 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 2: a process. So I think going out and having fun 515 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 2: where you're trying to heal is more important, you know 516 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 2: than just acting stupid. But definitely go and have fun 517 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 2: for sure. 518 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: And okay, So tell us about your third husband. 519 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 2: Yes, his name's John God. We met a couple of years. 520 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 2: I was dating people for a couple of years before 521 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 2: I met John. We met on match dot Com. I 522 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 2: had been on some of those, you know, all of 523 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 2: those stupid whatever sites and he was the only one 524 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 2: that I actually reached out to first, which I find 525 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 2: so interesting because everyone. Yeah, he was the only person 526 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 2: that and the guy I dated before him, but and 527 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 2: we met. We met at a bar restaurant in Boca Ratone, 528 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 2: and just he was just such a breath of fresh 529 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 2: air from the second I met him, like just manners 530 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 2: and I don't even know how to explain it. He 531 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 2: was cute, he was well put together, and we hit 532 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 2: it off from the get go. There was something about 533 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 2: him Jewish and I had been with someone who wasn't, 534 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 2: so it almost felt like coming home a little bit, 535 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 2: being with someone I could just connect to in that capacity. Yeah, 536 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 2: and it was personality wise from the get go. We 537 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 2: had so many things in common. The things we liked 538 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 2: to do were both big wine drinkers, very into red. 539 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: Wine back then, into travel. 540 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 2: The hobbies, yeah, movies, TV, working out, just there was 541 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 2: it was. There was an easiness that I had not 542 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 2: been with probably since my first husband. Right, I wasn't 543 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 2: There wasn't any anxiety or you're saying the wrong thing, 544 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 2: or he just genuinely liked me for who I was. 545 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 2: And the fact that he just thought I was pretty 546 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 2: was also helpful. I'm a little cutter, I'm a little 547 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 2: cutter than him. 548 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: So okay, So what happened. 549 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 2: We started immediately dating, and we just kept seeing each other, 550 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 2: seeing each other. And this was at the point in 551 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 2: time I think when I told you I wanted to 552 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 2: move to New Jersey. It was right before. 553 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: I am right. 554 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 2: So, after our third date, I told him that I 555 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 2: was still looking to move to New Jersey and he 556 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 2: ended it because of that. He's like, I don't want 557 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 2: to do a long distance I'm here, you're there. So 558 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 2: we didn't talk for a couple of months, and then 559 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 2: on his birthday, which is the twenty ninth of December, 560 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 2: I decided I had been thinking about him. I decided 561 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 2: to reach out and wish him happy birthday. We started 562 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 2: texting back and forth and I told him I was 563 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 2: going to be with you at the Boca Resort for 564 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 2: the New Year's party. 565 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes. 566 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 2: And he said he was going there as well. He said, 567 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 2: maybe you can come by and say hello. I had 568 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 2: another date. I never remember that. 569 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, we had. We had. Yes, we had to like 570 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: like sneak away and I came with you to go 571 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: see John. It was like a whole thing. I felt terrible, 572 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: pulled me into your web of deceit. 573 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 2: I know, I left my other, my boyfriend of two 574 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 2: years at the time to go. 575 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: Well, he wasn't your boyfriend because you were seeing No. 576 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 2: John and I had broken up, and so I got 577 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 2: back together with my ex boyfriends. I didn't put that 578 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 2: in for like a brief minute in time. 579 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. 580 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: Anyway, all right, so long story short, because I can't. 581 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: You ended up married and then you ended up divorced. Correct, 582 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: tell us what happened. 583 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 2: Yes, we dated for a year and then we were 584 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 2: in love with each other and decided to get married. 585 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 2: Same dreams, same value, same everything. And three weeks after 586 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 2: we got married, I think we were on our honeymoon. No, 587 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 2: not on our honeymoon. A little while after that, maybe 588 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 2: a cup Sorry I lied. Three months later we were 589 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 2: away on vacation. We were with you in Boston, No, 590 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 2: in Cape Cod and John got a call on the 591 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 2: way home that his father was in the hospital. Is 592 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 2: after three months of marriage. Long story short, It was 593 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 2: the worst thing. His father died soon after. And I 594 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 2: think John and his father were best friends and had 595 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 2: a business together, and you know, he was his hero. 596 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 2: He was John's hero, and John fell apart from that 597 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 2: at the time they had just switched businesses as well, 598 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 2: one company to another. They were at a brand new 599 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 2: transition to another company. They're both financial advisors, so new 600 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 2: transition to a company that wasn't working out very well. 601 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 2: His father's death, we definitely had differences in our parenting style. 602 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 2: He had a young child at the time and my 603 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 2: kids were in high school, and I initially didn't want 604 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 2: to be with someone who had a young kid. I 605 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 2: didn't want to be a parent again. Been there, done that, 606 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 2: No desire to parent your kid. And his daughter at 607 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 2: the time had been through a lot. She was young, 608 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 2: she was four or five years old when I met her. Yeah, 609 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 2: and we couldn't see eyed I on the parenting at You. 610 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: Would have stayed You would have stayed married even with 611 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: all of that. You always say that you would not 612 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: have gotten divorced. No, you did not want another divorce. 613 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 2: I would not have gotten divorced. I don't think he 614 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 2: was in an emotional space to deal with the things 615 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 2: that I was bringing to the marriage of things that 616 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 2: weren't working, things that I wasn't okay with, things about 617 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 2: parenting that I didn't like, the custody stuff he had 618 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 2: going back and forth. It was a lot and listening. Obviously, 619 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 2: he has his side of who I was. I can't 620 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 2: really think about anything I did wrong, but other than 621 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 2: being a bitch because I am. But I really can't 622 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 2: like I can fault myself for a lot of things 623 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 2: I did wrong in my marriages. I think that the 624 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 2: aftermath of my second marriage, I can say emotionally for 625 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 2: me at times, and I was still going through it 626 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 2: with him and turns of finances. Even when John and 627 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 2: I married, I was still going through it with my 628 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 2: ex and he think that there were so many issues there. 629 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 2: I think he knows that this guy still had a 630 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 2: piece of my heart as toxic as I knew it 631 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 2: was at this point. I think the issues that arose 632 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 2: from that relationship were difficult. Financially, he had a lot. 633 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 2: My second husband was very, very wealthy, and John has 634 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 2: a good living. But the only thing is that I 635 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 2: could count on in that second marriage was the money. 636 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 2: And it was probably more money than I had ever 637 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 2: had in my own right or been with someone who 638 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 2: had that kind of money. 639 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: Definitely right, and it kind. 640 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 2: Of took away the emotional pain at the time that 641 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 2: I had money, and so John was just a guy 642 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 2: who made a good living, right, I mean, he's successful 643 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 2: in his own right, and argued about money, always argued 644 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 2: about money, because now I felt like I needed to 645 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 2: be taken care of financially because I was taken care 646 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 2: of financially. I didn't have anything else in the second marriag, 647 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 2: but I was taken care of financially, So now I 648 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 2: wanted to be taken care of and John wasn't really 649 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 2: in that position. We had both been married before to 650 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 2: take care of me. 651 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: Right, right, So okay, so you ended up getting divorced, 652 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: so okay, but there is a line here after a year, 653 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: right after year of marriage, so then what happened tell 654 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: us about where we are today. 655 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 2: So after that marriage, I was like, that's it. I'm done, 656 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 2: I'm not getting getting married. I moved out, got an apartment, 657 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 2: and for a year we didn't really speak at all, 658 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 2: only when it was in reference to things we needed 659 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:44,240 Speaker 2: to speak about, right, So the belongings, the divorce selling, 660 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 2: the house selling. That's right, all of that stuff, But 661 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 2: there was always an underlying kind of I miss you, 662 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 2: but he wanted the divorce. I did not, And even 663 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 2: though there were issues in it, I'm like, I am 664 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 2: not doing this again. This guy. I married him. I 665 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,439 Speaker 2: wanted it to work, so I felt very betrayed. He 666 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 2: was the one who asked for the divorce. He was 667 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 2: the one who couldn't do it anymore, and he knew 668 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,839 Speaker 2: that it wouldn't have been me who wanted to do this, 669 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 2: and he was in a bad space. So we talked, 670 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 2: didn't really talk, but talked, you know, for for reasons 671 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 2: we needed to. But every now and then there'd be 672 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 2: and I miss you. I miss you too, but I'm 673 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 2: too hurt, and I don't You had your chance and 674 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 2: you lost me, and that's it, right, black and white thinker. 675 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 2: So it went on like this for a while, and 676 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 2: then one day he called me up and said, I 677 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,840 Speaker 2: really need to make amends for our marriage. Are you 678 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,359 Speaker 2: willing to meet me? So I did. I met him 679 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 2: at a cute little place we used to go to together, 680 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 2: and he was crying and he said, I did this 681 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 2: all wrong. I gave up on you, I gave up 682 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 2: on us. I wasn't emotionally capable of being present in 683 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 2: this marriage. I wasn't able to take on, you know, 684 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 2: any accountability for why it went wrong. And he, you know, 685 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 2: he basically just fell apart. He said it was my fault. 686 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 2: I should not have given up on this, and I didn't. 687 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 2: With all the other trauma and all the other things 688 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 2: going on in his life and us disagreeing on certain things, 689 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 2: we couldn't handle it. So he apologized. We started talking 690 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 2: after that, and it was a lot of talking, you know, 691 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 2: hours and hours and hours of talking, and I still 692 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 2: was like, that's it. I'm not you know, I can't 693 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 2: go backwards. I've done this enough. And he wouldn't stop calling, 694 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 2: and eventually he asked me if I would meet him again, 695 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 2: and I did, and slowly, over time we got back together. 696 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 2: I wouldn't sleep with him for months. I remember that 697 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 2: that was like the punishment, right use sex is the 698 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 2: as the thing, and not really because not because I 699 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 2: wanted you to eight because I was so angry about 700 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 2: what had happened. Even though I was kind of bringing 701 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 2: him back in my life, I wasn't going to let 702 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 2: myself lose that part of this kind of control that 703 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,359 Speaker 2: it was going to go the way I wanted, how 704 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 2: I wanted at my pace. So yeah, so we've been 705 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 2: back to back together ten years. 706 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: Plus ten years plus Robin. The big question, the burning question, 707 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: why didn't you get married again. 708 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 2: I hope he's not listening to this podcast right now. 709 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 1: Why, I don't think you're saying anything. 710 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 2: No, I can't ever say that I wouldn't get married 711 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,760 Speaker 2: again at this point in my life. He lives in 712 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 2: Boca and I live in New Jersey. 713 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,800 Speaker 1: Which, by the way, I think has worked out beautifully. 714 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of not being on top of 715 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,359 Speaker 1: each other in a marriage. I mean, that's that's really 716 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 1: not on top of each other. 717 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 2: But yeah, no, I mean he comes every two weeks, right, 718 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 2: so I see him a lot. 719 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 1: Right, of course, I'll see him a lot. 720 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 2: He would love to be together more. He's heard me 721 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 2: say it. I'm okay with it, Like I find that 722 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 2: it has really made our relationship blossom. He's the greatest 723 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,399 Speaker 2: man to me. No man's ever treated me better than 724 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 2: this man treats me. You always tell me that. My 725 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 2: whole family. 726 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 1: Tells me that he is so good to you. 727 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 2: He's almost too good at times. So I want to say, 728 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 2: you know, get some balls somewhere, be me to me 729 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 2: every now and then. He just can't do it. It's 730 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 2: not in his DNA. So he wants to get remarried. 731 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 2: I just don't know if I necessarily see a point, 732 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,840 Speaker 2: we've already separated everything. The first time we went through lawyers. 733 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,919 Speaker 2: The first time it didn't work out. 734 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 1: I mean, do you think that a lot of that 735 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: is just about the fact that you're now after three marriages, 736 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: just like how great can marriage be? Really? I mean 737 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it like it didn't work out. It 738 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 1: didn't work out, It didn't work out. Now things are 739 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: working out, right, worked out, They actually did work out. 740 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: I mean, you guys would be together forever regardless. 741 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, they did work out. And I think that we 742 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,799 Speaker 2: already consider ourselves married. You know, we both wear our 743 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 2: rings at this point. We're completely committed. We're not with 744 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 2: anyone or have any desire to be with anyone else. 745 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 2: We our relationship, he would say it too, is the 746 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,799 Speaker 2: best it's ever been. We laugh all the time. I 747 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 2: always tell you everything. We have so many things in common. 748 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 2: Finish each other's sentences or take that back. He thinks 749 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 2: he can finish mine all the time, which actually annoys me. 750 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 2: But right, I talk and then he finishes my son, 751 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 2: and so I'm like, Hi, I'm sitting here. You don't 752 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 2: need to finish my son, as I got it. But 753 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 2: I don't need to. I don't. I don't. We're together. 754 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 2: I don't see a reason for it at all. I'm 755 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 2: on his insurance without being married. That's okay, right, So 756 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 2: it just it works for us. I know he really 757 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,719 Speaker 2: wants that. I think it's very important to him, but 758 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 2: at this point in my life, I'm not ready. 759 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, they do it. Yeah, no, I mean listen, for me, 760 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: as your sister, who loves you more than anyone, I 761 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,479 Speaker 1: just see you so happy now. It's like but then again, 762 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: and I think also maybe part of that is that 763 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,400 Speaker 1: you don't need the financial security like you used to. 764 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that for a lot of women, 765 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 1: you know, they're home raising kids and they don't they're 766 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: not not necessarily working and although the hardest job in 767 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: the world, but you know, their career hasn't blossomed like 768 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,320 Speaker 1: their husbands has, and that can be scary, right, But yours, 769 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 1: you have a full, serious career. So I don't know 770 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: if that's you know how much that would have to 771 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 1: do with it. 772 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 2: I mean, listen, it wasn't. He wasn't taking care of 773 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 2: me financially when we were married, so John, I mean, 774 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,719 Speaker 2: we were fifty to fifty all the way through. So 775 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 2: there wasn't he wasn't taking care of me, and that 776 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 2: was part of the problem in the marriage at the time. 777 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 2: Is that I just you know, again, call me traditional. 778 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 2: I just always felt like he should pay for a 779 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 2: little more. He's the man, and he didn't. And that 780 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 2: might be an unwoke way to say things, but that's 781 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 2: the truth. I just don't. It didn't happen. And you 782 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 2: are right though, there is a freedom in not having 783 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,480 Speaker 2: to rely on anybody right for your life and to 784 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 2: have someone in it because you want them in it, 785 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 2: not because you need them in it. 786 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I mean any like, I don't know. 787 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,280 Speaker 1: I mean you obviously you give advice for a living. 788 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 1: I mean that's what you do. And I know you 789 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: believe in marriage. I mean, I know how much you 790 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 1: love my marriage, how much you love my relationship with Jeff, 791 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 1: the best close to Jeff. But I mean that's maybe 792 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,799 Speaker 1: we need another to do another pot on it. But 793 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: like you know, for your kids in terms of like 794 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,240 Speaker 1: cause I always say to my kids now, like it's 795 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,200 Speaker 1: it's probably the most important decision that you'll ever make, 796 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 1: right who you pick is a life partner. 797 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 2: It's so funny because I don't say that to my 798 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 2: kids at all. You don't know both my kids believe 799 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,960 Speaker 2: in divorce. I don't, and not because they don't want 800 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 2: to be in a loving relationship. They do. Obviously. Everyone 801 00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 2: goes into a marriage hoping that it's their life partner. 802 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 2: But you know what, sometimes your life partner is not 803 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 2: your first partner. Sorry, And we grow and we change, 804 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,359 Speaker 2: and we have to do our best right while we're 805 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 2: in a marriage, to try to nurture it, to give 806 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,040 Speaker 2: it the presence, the time that it deserves, right, to 807 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 2: deal with the things that keep it together, and make 808 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,840 Speaker 2: it the number one priority in our lives. Our children 809 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 2: should not be a number one priority. There as important, 810 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,440 Speaker 2: but they should not be the number one priority in 811 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 2: a marriage. That marriage, the marriage should be. And I 812 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,759 Speaker 2: don't think I don't think we do that enough. So 813 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,359 Speaker 2: I think if we put in all that we can 814 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 2: put in, and things happen and things change, and you 815 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,319 Speaker 2: fight like hell to try to stay in it, but 816 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,920 Speaker 2: if you are unhappy you do not stay. That is 817 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 2: not your most important decision to stay in something. You 818 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,960 Speaker 2: stay in it for the things that Rachel. 819 00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,239 Speaker 1: I always mean it like, well, I just think I 820 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,240 Speaker 1: see so much. Obviously, what is it more than half 821 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 1: of marriages and a divorce. But it's just I don't know. 822 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 1: I think if you to really like the person and 823 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 1: love but also a really it's a choice that I 824 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 1: think is can just affect you can affect your happiness. 825 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,719 Speaker 1: I don't know. That's for another pod, because it. 826 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 2: Is it is. But they I think they they're good 827 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,600 Speaker 2: with where with where I'm at, and I think that. 828 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they love John. I mean I think 829 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:19,879 Speaker 1: they'd be happy if you got married, but I think 830 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:20,840 Speaker 1: they're okay if you don't. 831 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:22,960 Speaker 2: I mean, they care more about their own lives and 832 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:24,919 Speaker 2: giving a shit if I get married for a fourth time. 833 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,239 Speaker 2: To be honest with you, so that's true to you 834 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,759 Speaker 2: know what I mean, he's ten years and they love 835 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 2: him and they treat him like he treats them like 836 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 2: like they're hist So I mean he's he's the best 837 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,800 Speaker 2: and they love him, and I'm happy and it works 838 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:44,400 Speaker 2: third time around four, fourth time something, I don't know. 839 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. 840 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:46,399 Speaker 2: It's a lot, it's a lot. 841 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,560 Speaker 1: Thank you, I love you so much, thanks for having 842 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,440 Speaker 1: to talk to you later. Wow, right, she's the best. 843 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 1: I'm very, very very lucky and blessed to have her 844 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:56,839 Speaker 1: as a sister, and she's actually helped me so much 845 00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:01,239 Speaker 1: in terms of my marriage and our issues and she's 846 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,040 Speaker 1: been through it, but it worked out and that's the point, right, Well, 847 00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:09,720 Speaker 1: that's what we hope for anyway. So one more time, Robbie, 848 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,200 Speaker 1: if you're listening, thank you for coming on. Thank you 849 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:14,879 Speaker 1: for sharing your journey. You guys, are you thinking about 850 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:16,839 Speaker 1: reconciling with an X? Have you been through a couple 851 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,440 Speaker 1: of divorces? Do you need help finding love again? Follow 852 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 1: us or email us all the infos in the show notes. 853 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: Follow us on socials. Make sure to rate and review 854 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,719 Speaker 1: the podcast I Do Part two and iHeart Radio podcasts 855 00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:30,960 Speaker 1: where falling in love is the main objective.