Speaker 1: It's Friday, June eleven. I'm oscar A Mirrors from the
Speaker 1: Daily Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America.
Speaker 1: Some good news on the coronavirus front, as we might
Speaker 1: be closer to herd immunity than you think. More than
Speaker 1: six of adults have had at least one vaccine does
Speaker 1: and for those who haven't had the vaccine, about half
Speaker 1: of them have natural immunity from prior infection. When you
Speaker 1: factor in natural immunity, the number of individuals protected is
Speaker 1: more than we think. Dr Marty McCarry, professor at the
Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins School of Medicine and author of The Price
Speaker 1: We Pay, What Broke American Healthcare and How to Fix It,
Speaker 1: joins us for why herd immunity is not so far off.
Speaker 1: Dr McCarey, thank you very much for joining us. Great
Speaker 1: to be with you. I wanted to talk about some
Speaker 1: good news when it comes to coronavirus in the pandemic,
Speaker 1: something you might not have heard. We keep talking about
Speaker 1: vaccination rates and how some people don't want to get
Speaker 1: the vaccines anymore, and how we might not hit that
Speaker 1: magic number for her immunity. You know, seventy of the
Speaker 1: population being vaccinated. But when we take our current vaccination
Speaker 1: rates and you factor in the natural immunity that a
Speaker 1: lot of people have who have already been infected with COVID,
Speaker 1: we might be a lot closer to that number that
Speaker 1: people think. So Dr McCarry tell us a little bit
Speaker 1: more about this. Well, one of the big failures of
Speaker 1: our medical leadership has been ignoring natural immunity from prior infection,
Speaker 1: and those are people who had the infection and their
Speaker 1: body belt an immune response similar to that of a vaccine.
Speaker 1: And so when you've got almost half the population are
Speaker 1: so roughly based on the California data, that has natural immunity,
Speaker 1: and there's lots of other data that suggests it's a
Speaker 1: lot of Americans, it's probably half, and it's probably half
Speaker 1: of the unvaccinated Americans today, that changes the calculus. It
Speaker 1: changes everything, because now getting to immunity is something where
Speaker 1: we're already there. We've already got Look, we've got sixty
Speaker 1: four percent of adults vaccinated and of the remaining thirty
Speaker 1: six per scent, about half have natural immunity. So that
Speaker 1: means eight to eight seven of adults in America today
Speaker 1: are walking around with community. That makes a big difference. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and there's been studies done anybody screenings that have been
Speaker 1: done that show that there's a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: more cases, probably than confirmed cases that we know of,
Speaker 1: So that boosts that number up of those people that
Speaker 1: have the natural immunity. And for a long time, the
Speaker 1: discussion was we don't know how long immunity lasts, whether
Speaker 1: you're vaccinated or whether you've had COVID previously. But we're
Speaker 1: starting to get some of that data in now and
Speaker 1: we see that that natural immunity does last for quite
Speaker 1: some time. It seems like it's powerful. And as a
Speaker 1: matter of fact, the data that have come out in
Speaker 1: the last few weeks from the Cleveland Clinic and Washington
Speaker 1: University are showing that natural immunity is durable. We've had
Speaker 1: it around, by the way, longer than we've had vaccines,
Speaker 1: so we have more follow up data on natural immunity
Speaker 1: than vaccinated immunity. And guess what. So far, natural immunity
Speaker 1: is strong, durable, and many scientists believe it's long lasting
Speaker 1: and it may be lifelong. Public health officials keep saying,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody should get vaccinated, even those that have
Speaker 1: previously had it. How does this factor into that. I mean,
Speaker 1: should those that have previously fallen ill with it still
Speaker 1: get vaccinated? I don't think so. I mean public health
Speaker 1: officials are basically just making stuff up as they go.
Speaker 1: They don't know about the power of natural immunity, so
Speaker 1: they just say, you know what, if you've had the infection,
Speaker 1: I don't know, just get the vaccine. Anyway, the data
Speaker 1: are out now, they're very compelling. We've had this for
Speaker 1: a while and we're trying to make a solid case
Speaker 1: that if we follow the science, the science would tell
Speaker 1: us there's no benefit to the vaccine after you have
Speaker 1: natural immunity. And and and just remember I'm not just
Speaker 1: talking about you tested positive. I'm talking about you had symptoms,
Speaker 1: you were sick, and you tested positive. If you know
Speaker 1: you've had COVID. The data from Cleveland Clinic shows no
Speaker 1: added benefit of the vaccine. Yeah, you even said in
Speaker 1: some cases, maybe people could benefit from one shot, because
Speaker 1: we already know that it starts boosting up those anybody.
Speaker 1: So at the very least, if you wanted to, you
Speaker 1: can maybe just do one or something that's right. And
Speaker 1: that's what I've been recommending to people because they say, well,
Speaker 1: should I just get it anyway? Is there any downside?
Speaker 1: And the reality is no, not really, And you can
Speaker 1: almost think of your COVID infection in the past as
Speaker 1: a first dose, right exactly. Variants those are always pop
Speaker 1: up in conversations like this, things that can evade the
Speaker 1: immunity that it's given to you because of the vaccines
Speaker 1: all that. How should we proceed thinking about those? Well,
Speaker 1: we've had hundreds of variants and none have evaded the
Speaker 1: protective effect of vaccines in saving someone's life or preventing
Speaker 1: serious critical illness, So that says a lot. Now. I
Speaker 1: am very mindful of what we're seeing overseas because in
Speaker 1: England there's been a little bumping cases and I expect
Speaker 1: there to be some rolling increases over the summer in
Speaker 1: the fall. But we're not going to see spikes. We're
Speaker 1: gonna see maybe the delta variant, which is more contagious,
Speaker 1: kind of move quickly through the younger populations that are
Speaker 1: still unvaccinated, and it's something to be aware of and
Speaker 1: not be surprised by, right exactly. Doctor, I don't want
Speaker 1: to ask you because you are a surgeon and you
Speaker 1: deal with transplant patients as well, and we had been
Speaker 1: hearing that in some studies some transplant patients, people who
Speaker 1: are immuno compromised aren't getting the full benefits of the vaccine.
Speaker 1: Have you have you found that to be true, and
Speaker 1: people who are immuno compromised, they may want to get
Speaker 1: their unibody level checked since it's not high enough, go
Speaker 1: ahead and get a third dose in some cases. And
Speaker 1: that's just the byproduct of the drugs that they're taking
Speaker 1: to prevent their bodies from rejecting those organs. That's right.
Speaker 1: Their bodies are not mounting a strong immune response because
Speaker 1: their immune systems may be suppressed. So those are things
Speaker 1: now where we're having conversations with lots of doctors nationwide
Speaker 1: to say, go ahead and get your third dose if
Speaker 1: you've had an organ transplant or even though suppressed and
Speaker 1: you don't see any antibodies after the after your second toasts. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is some of the good news that
Speaker 1: you know, really don't hear about too much. You know,
Speaker 1: factoring in that natural immunity is very important. And a
Speaker 1: lot of places are opening up, you know, California specifically
Speaker 1: where I live, is opening up next week. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's good news, so so we're getting there, which is
Speaker 1: very important. So thank you on all that front and
Speaker 1: kind of helping us with all that. Dr. Before we go,
Speaker 1: I did want to mention your book The Price We Pay,
Speaker 1: What broke American healthcare and how to fix it. It's
Speaker 1: a look into what's going wrong with the health care
Speaker 1: system right now. Tell us a little bit about it.
Speaker 1: You know, we need to treat more diabetes with cooking
Speaker 1: classes instead of just throwing insulin at people. And we
Speaker 1: need to treat more back pain with ice and physical
Speaker 1: therapy than just surgery and opioids. This is the movement
Speaker 1: that we are watching right now in the United States,
Speaker 1: and it's good and it's exciting, and it's finally addressing
Speaker 1: over treatment, over medicating, and price gouging on the financial side.
Speaker 1: These are things that we cannot dress through increased awareness
Speaker 1: and promoting the types of clinics that advanced this kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. And people can vote with their choices in
Speaker 1: terms of where they go for their health care. And
Speaker 1: it's a very good movement right now. And that's what
Speaker 1: I profile in this new paperback book. Dr Marty McCarry,
Speaker 1: professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, Bloomberg School
Speaker 1: of Public Health, and Carry Business School. Thank you very
Speaker 1: much for joining us. You're great to be with you.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. I'm aspar Promiris and this has
Speaker 1: been reopening America. Don't forget to days big news stories.
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