WEBVTT - With Natural Immunity, Herd Immunity May Be Here Quicker Than We Think

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<v Speaker 1>It's Friday, June eleven. I'm oscar A Mirrors from the

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<v Speaker 1>Daily Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America.

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<v Speaker 1>Some good news on the coronavirus front, as we might

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<v Speaker 1>be closer to herd immunity than you think. More than

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<v Speaker 1>six of adults have had at least one vaccine does

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<v Speaker 1>and for those who haven't had the vaccine, about half

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<v Speaker 1>of them have natural immunity from prior infection. When you

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<v Speaker 1>factor in natural immunity, the number of individuals protected is

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<v Speaker 1>more than we think. Dr Marty McCarry, professor at the

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<v Speaker 1>Johns Hopkins School of Medicine and author of The Price

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<v Speaker 1>We Pay, What Broke American Healthcare and How to Fix It,

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<v Speaker 1>joins us for why herd immunity is not so far off.

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<v Speaker 1>Dr McCarey, thank you very much for joining us. Great

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<v Speaker 1>to be with you. I wanted to talk about some

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<v Speaker 1>good news when it comes to coronavirus in the pandemic,

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<v Speaker 1>something you might not have heard. We keep talking about

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<v Speaker 1>vaccination rates and how some people don't want to get

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<v Speaker 1>the vaccines anymore, and how we might not hit that

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<v Speaker 1>magic number for her immunity. You know, seventy of the

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<v Speaker 1>population being vaccinated. But when we take our current vaccination

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<v Speaker 1>rates and you factor in the natural immunity that a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people have who have already been infected with COVID,

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<v Speaker 1>we might be a lot closer to that number that

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<v Speaker 1>people think. So Dr McCarry tell us a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>more about this. Well, one of the big failures of

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<v Speaker 1>our medical leadership has been ignoring natural immunity from prior infection,

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<v Speaker 1>and those are people who had the infection and their

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<v Speaker 1>body belt an immune response similar to that of a vaccine.

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<v Speaker 1>And so when you've got almost half the population are

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<v Speaker 1>so roughly based on the California data, that has natural immunity,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's lots of other data that suggests it's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of Americans, it's probably half, and it's probably half

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<v Speaker 1>of the unvaccinated Americans today, that changes the calculus. It

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<v Speaker 1>changes everything, because now getting to immunity is something where

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<v Speaker 1>we're already there. We've already got Look, we've got sixty

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<v Speaker 1>four percent of adults vaccinated and of the remaining thirty

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<v Speaker 1>six per scent, about half have natural immunity. So that

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<v Speaker 1>means eight to eight seven of adults in America today

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<v Speaker 1>are walking around with community. That makes a big difference. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's been studies done anybody screenings that have been

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<v Speaker 1>done that show that there's a lot of a lot

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<v Speaker 1>more cases, probably than confirmed cases that we know of,

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<v Speaker 1>So that boosts that number up of those people that

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<v Speaker 1>have the natural immunity. And for a long time, the

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<v Speaker 1>discussion was we don't know how long immunity lasts, whether

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<v Speaker 1>you're vaccinated or whether you've had COVID previously. But we're

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<v Speaker 1>starting to get some of that data in now and

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<v Speaker 1>we see that that natural immunity does last for quite

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<v Speaker 1>some time. It seems like it's powerful. And as a

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<v Speaker 1>matter of fact, the data that have come out in

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<v Speaker 1>the last few weeks from the Cleveland Clinic and Washington

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<v Speaker 1>University are showing that natural immunity is durable. We've had

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<v Speaker 1>it around, by the way, longer than we've had vaccines,

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<v Speaker 1>so we have more follow up data on natural immunity

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<v Speaker 1>than vaccinated immunity. And guess what. So far, natural immunity

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<v Speaker 1>is strong, durable, and many scientists believe it's long lasting

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<v Speaker 1>and it may be lifelong. Public health officials keep saying,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, everybody should get vaccinated, even those that have

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<v Speaker 1>previously had it. How does this factor into that. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>should those that have previously fallen ill with it still

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<v Speaker 1>get vaccinated? I don't think so. I mean public health

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<v Speaker 1>officials are basically just making stuff up as they go.

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<v Speaker 1>They don't know about the power of natural immunity, so

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<v Speaker 1>they just say, you know what, if you've had the infection,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, just get the vaccine. Anyway, the data

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<v Speaker 1>are out now, they're very compelling. We've had this for

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<v Speaker 1>a while and we're trying to make a solid case

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<v Speaker 1>that if we follow the science, the science would tell

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<v Speaker 1>us there's no benefit to the vaccine after you have

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<v Speaker 1>natural immunity. And and and just remember I'm not just

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<v Speaker 1>talking about you tested positive. I'm talking about you had symptoms,

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<v Speaker 1>you were sick, and you tested positive. If you know

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<v Speaker 1>you've had COVID. The data from Cleveland Clinic shows no

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<v Speaker 1>added benefit of the vaccine. Yeah, you even said in

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<v Speaker 1>some cases, maybe people could benefit from one shot, because

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<v Speaker 1>we already know that it starts boosting up those anybody.

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<v Speaker 1>So at the very least, if you wanted to, you

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<v Speaker 1>can maybe just do one or something that's right. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's what I've been recommending to people because they say, well,

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<v Speaker 1>should I just get it anyway? Is there any downside?

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<v Speaker 1>And the reality is no, not really, And you can

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<v Speaker 1>almost think of your COVID infection in the past as

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<v Speaker 1>a first dose, right exactly. Variants those are always pop

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<v Speaker 1>up in conversations like this, things that can evade the

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<v Speaker 1>immunity that it's given to you because of the vaccines

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<v Speaker 1>all that. How should we proceed thinking about those? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>we've had hundreds of variants and none have evaded the

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<v Speaker 1>protective effect of vaccines in saving someone's life or preventing

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<v Speaker 1>serious critical illness, So that says a lot. Now. I

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<v Speaker 1>am very mindful of what we're seeing overseas because in

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<v Speaker 1>England there's been a little bumping cases and I expect

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<v Speaker 1>there to be some rolling increases over the summer in

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<v Speaker 1>the fall. But we're not going to see spikes. We're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna see maybe the delta variant, which is more contagious,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of move quickly through the younger populations that are

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<v Speaker 1>still unvaccinated, and it's something to be aware of and

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<v Speaker 1>not be surprised by, right exactly. Doctor, I don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to ask you because you are a surgeon and you

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<v Speaker 1>deal with transplant patients as well, and we had been

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<v Speaker 1>hearing that in some studies some transplant patients, people who

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<v Speaker 1>are immuno compromised aren't getting the full benefits of the vaccine.

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<v Speaker 1>Have you have you found that to be true, and

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<v Speaker 1>people who are immuno compromised, they may want to get

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<v Speaker 1>their unibody level checked since it's not high enough, go

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<v Speaker 1>ahead and get a third dose in some cases. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's just the byproduct of the drugs that they're taking

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<v Speaker 1>to prevent their bodies from rejecting those organs. That's right.

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<v Speaker 1>Their bodies are not mounting a strong immune response because

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<v Speaker 1>their immune systems may be suppressed. So those are things

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<v Speaker 1>now where we're having conversations with lots of doctors nationwide

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<v Speaker 1>to say, go ahead and get your third dose if

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<v Speaker 1>you've had an organ transplant or even though suppressed and

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<v Speaker 1>you don't see any antibodies after the after your second toasts. So,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, this is some of the good news that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, really don't hear about too much. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>factoring in that natural immunity is very important. And a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of places are opening up, you know, California specifically

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<v Speaker 1>where I live, is opening up next week. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>that's good news, so so we're getting there, which is

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<v Speaker 1>very important. So thank you on all that front and

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<v Speaker 1>kind of helping us with all that. Dr. Before we go,

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<v Speaker 1>I did want to mention your book The Price We Pay,

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<v Speaker 1>What broke American healthcare and how to fix it. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a look into what's going wrong with the health care

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<v Speaker 1>system right now. Tell us a little bit about it.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we need to treat more diabetes with cooking

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<v Speaker 1>classes instead of just throwing insulin at people. And we

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<v Speaker 1>need to treat more back pain with ice and physical

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<v Speaker 1>therapy than just surgery and opioids. This is the movement

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<v Speaker 1>that we are watching right now in the United States,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's good and it's exciting, and it's finally addressing

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<v Speaker 1>over treatment, over medicating, and price gouging on the financial side.

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<v Speaker 1>These are things that we cannot dress through increased awareness

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<v Speaker 1>and promoting the types of clinics that advanced this kind

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<v Speaker 1>of stuff. And people can vote with their choices in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of where they go for their health care. And

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<v Speaker 1>it's a very good movement right now. And that's what

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<v Speaker 1>I profile in this new paperback book. Dr Marty McCarry,

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<v Speaker 1>professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, Bloomberg School

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<v Speaker 1>of Public Health, and Carry Business School. Thank you very

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<v Speaker 1>much for joining us. You're great to be with you.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for having me. I'm aspar Promiris and this has

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<v Speaker 1>been reopening America. Don't forget to days big news stories.

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<v Speaker 1>You can check me out in the Daily Dive podcast

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<v Speaker 1>every Monday Friday. So follow us and I Heart Radio

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<v Speaker 1>or wherever you get your podcast