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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know?

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Speaker 1: From House staff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant.

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Speaker 1: Snap Snap snap. That was my camera impression. You could

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Speaker 1: you get your little iPhone? You could do you know

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Speaker 1: the little sound if you want to. I guess I could.

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Speaker 1: Is it this? That's your iPhone camera? My own personal rendition?

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Speaker 1: Did I introduce this yet? I have not? I'm Josh Clark.

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Speaker 1: You did? Oh? I did? You didn't say this is

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Speaker 1: stuff you should know? This is stuff you should know?

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Speaker 1: The podcast? Right, that's right. I have you noticed I've

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Speaker 1: started to differentiate between the podcast and the nothing else?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, here, let's see what we got there? You go? Yeah, So, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: had you been you know, in the act of vandalism, murder,

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Speaker 1: theft um, or had you done it gotten up and

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Speaker 1: left some sort of scene behind that picture would have

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Speaker 1: constituted crime scene photography. That is not my intro. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Did you notice in this article again named Alphonse Bertillon, right,

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Speaker 1: He was a nineteenth century French photographer who was credited

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Speaker 1: with um creating the concept of crime scene photography for

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Speaker 1: forensic police investigation. He's also credited with creating something that

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Speaker 1: any smoking gun fan will appreciate. This guy for mug shots,

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Speaker 1: like mug shots. Mug shots. Um, he created mug shots,

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Speaker 1: I should say for the purpose that they're used today

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Speaker 1: cataloging and criminal This guy with this face, with these

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Speaker 1: tattoos has done this crime right, or has been questioned

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Speaker 1: for this crime or whatever. It's it's a way of

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Speaker 1: documenting what a person looks like, so there's no mistaken identity.

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Speaker 1: That kind of thing. Uh. And when um Bertillon came

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Speaker 1: up with this, it was it was kind of a

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Speaker 1: lifesaver for people suspected of being criminals, or for criminals

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Speaker 1: because in France at the time, UM, you may be

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Speaker 1: branded with a hot iron. That's how they identified repeat offenders. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that was kind of a safe But Bertillon was

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Speaker 1: also very much interested in eugenics, which was the idea

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Speaker 1: that you could create a fitter, better human race by

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Speaker 1: basically sterilizing or killing people who didn't fit the idea

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Speaker 1: of fitness, right, epileptics, criminals, that kind of thing, uh,

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Speaker 1: And part of eugenics was based on um phrenology or

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Speaker 1: the shape of the skull, the shape of the face characteristics.

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Speaker 1: And Bertillon came up with eleven character characteristics that you

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Speaker 1: could measure drawn on ethnic lines, largely very much so

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Speaker 1: um but using calipers and other instruments, and he came

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Speaker 1: up with this uniform measure meant set. That's the other

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Speaker 1: reason he started doing mug shots right, And it actually

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Speaker 1: worked for a while until uh in the early turn

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Speaker 1: of the century, the last century, not this past one,

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Speaker 1: the one before UH Leavenworth Prison, a guy was using

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Speaker 1: this bertignon um measurement. They have a standard procedure by

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Speaker 1: them to book somebody in named William West. And this

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Speaker 1: guy who was doing the measurements, that was his job,

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Speaker 1: so he knew everybody in the prisons measurements by heart

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Speaker 1: pretty much. He was like, I have measured your face before,

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Speaker 1: and this William West is like, no, I promise you

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Speaker 1: I have not been here before. And he's like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Let me look. So he looks it up

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Speaker 1: and sees that yes, he has indeed come up with

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Speaker 1: the same exact measurements for these eleven different distinct characteristics

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Speaker 1: which Bertillon calculated to be one in about four million,

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Speaker 1: the chances of two people having the same characteristics. And

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Speaker 1: not only that, this Leavenworth forensics guy, UM finds that

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Speaker 1: they're attributed or cataloged with a guy by the name

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Speaker 1: of William West. Here's the thing. The guy he was

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Speaker 1: booking processing wasn't lying. The other William West was still

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Speaker 1: in prison in Leavenworth with the same eleven characteristics. So

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Speaker 1: as of that guy's processing, there were two William West

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Speaker 1: with identical facial characteristics in Leavenworth at the same time.

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Speaker 1: So was that the beginning of the end of mugshots

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Speaker 1: being used in that way pretty much, because from what

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Speaker 1: I understand with the characteristics, it was sort of like

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Speaker 1: he was using this proof like just look at the guy,

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Speaker 1: just look at him right, look at the face. Well,

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Speaker 1: not not only that, by studying, by creating a catalog

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Speaker 1: of people along these eleven characteristics, like how far apart

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Speaker 1: your eyes were, like how protruding your eyebrow, your eyebrow ridge?

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Speaker 1: Is that kind of thing? Um, you would conceivably and

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Speaker 1: we're very much doing something along the same lines with

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Speaker 1: d N today. Um, we're conceivably saying, well, this person

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Speaker 1: with this you know, pronounced eyebrow ridge is um, you know,

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Speaker 1: very much predisposed to acts of murder and violence because

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Speaker 1: if you, as you've seen all these other people that

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Speaker 1: we've cataloged, had this protruding eyebrow ridge and that common

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Speaker 1: characteristic shows that you're a murderer. Not to nab a criminal, no,

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Speaker 1: but it's the same point that we're at with these

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Speaker 1: DNA data bases that we've spoken about. To Chuck, let's

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Speaker 1: get back to crime scene photography, shall we. Yes, Bertillon

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Speaker 1: was the first guy to really do that, and he um,

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Speaker 1: he was the first guy to I mean, there's been

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Speaker 1: forensic photography, they said, since pretty much the camera's been around.

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Speaker 1: But he was the first guy to say, you know what,

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Speaker 1: let's do some different angles, and let's get some real

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Speaker 1: close ups, and let's survey the whole scene, and now

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Speaker 1: we have sort of a picture of what the whole

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Speaker 1: crime scene looks like and methodical. He was the first

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Speaker 1: to really apply a method to it. Before um, it

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Speaker 1: kind of grew out of newspapers printing crime scene photos

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Speaker 1: like The Guy in Road to Perdition. Um. Jude Law. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed that it was a good movie, but they

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Speaker 1: would they would go for the art or the shock

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Speaker 1: value of it, not necessarily the evidentiary value. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's very sensationalistic. U. Crime Scene photography is obviously very

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Speaker 1: important because evidence is transitory. Um. You clean up a

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Speaker 1: crime scene, you remove the body, lift the fingerprints, you

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Speaker 1: do all that stuff. So you need to get it

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Speaker 1: while the egg is still in the pan. As they

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Speaker 1: say that, I think you just say that so before

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Speaker 1: everyone else comes in and does their thing, um, the

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Speaker 1: crime scene photographer. There's a lot of pressure on on

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Speaker 1: these men and women to go in first because they've

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Speaker 1: got their c s. I guys outside saying all right,

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Speaker 1: come on, let's get this over with so we can

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Speaker 1: start analyzing it. Right. But they gotta be first because

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Speaker 1: you don't want to disrupt the scene. Yeah, and you

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Speaker 1: have to take your time, and you have to do

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Speaker 1: it right, and there's standard procedures that you have to

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Speaker 1: come up with very much. Um. But yeah, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of a high pressure job. It's it's a very important job.

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Speaker 1: You remember when we were talking about, UM, blood pattern

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Speaker 1: analysis just a couple of days ago, it seems it

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Speaker 1: seems like just no time at all, UM, But you

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Speaker 1: were talking about how maybe some police departments have people

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Speaker 1: pulling double duty with blood pattern analysis. Uh, not necessarily

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Speaker 1: so with crime scene photography. Uh, this isn't so. This

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Speaker 1: is not as much in art as a science, even

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Speaker 1: though it's something that grew out of an art um.

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Speaker 1: This this position is very valuable, so much so that

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Speaker 1: the Manhattan District Attorney's Office has its own crime scene

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Speaker 1: photography and videography department, and they dispatched them independently of

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Speaker 1: the police. Interesting, so there'll be two on the scene

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Speaker 1: because they found that documenting a crime scene is so

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Speaker 1: important to closing a case that they just they have

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Speaker 1: their own peeps doing it, their own, their own homies. Alright,

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Speaker 1: so let's talk about the classifications of forensic photos. There's

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Speaker 1: uh three of them, and at first it sounds like

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Speaker 1: no dub. But it's a little more interesting than that.

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Speaker 1: You've got your overview, you've got your mid range, you

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Speaker 1: got your close up. You think overview, you think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they just take the big wide shot. They take a

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Speaker 1: lot more than that. They take pictures of the outside

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Speaker 1: of the buildings. They take a pictures entrances and exits.

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Speaker 1: They take pictures of uh, let's say it's there's a

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Speaker 1: crowd of folks standing around that police tape. You know

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Speaker 1: in the movies they always return to the scene of

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Speaker 1: the crime. You can pick them out of that crowd.

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Speaker 1: So they take pictures of the crowd. Not only that,

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Speaker 1: if the police are canvassing the crowd and some people

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Speaker 1: wander off or whatever, you can use that to go

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Speaker 1: find those people who may be potential witnesses. Uh. They

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Speaker 1: will take pictures of uh, not just the room, but

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Speaker 1: every angle of the room, the corners of the room, um,

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Speaker 1: the different rooms in Like let's say the murder occurred

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Speaker 1: in a bedroom. They're not just gonna stick to the bedroom.

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Speaker 1: They're gonna take pictures of all the rooms in the

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Speaker 1: house because they may say, uh, look at the picture.

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Speaker 1: The phone was off the hook in the other room,

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Speaker 1: so let's go lift fingerprints off the phone handle, or

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Speaker 1: trace the last call that was made something like that

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Speaker 1: coming from upstairs. It's inside the house. So that's the overview.

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Speaker 1: That's the overview, right, and that that pretty much is like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's the boring part, and then the oh my god,

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Speaker 1: now we're at the mid mid range. Right. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: when you use zoom in a bit on some of

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Speaker 1: the gruesome aspects of the crime. I've told you before.

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Speaker 1: I think I've mentioned it that I've seen like some

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Speaker 1: some crime scene photography that's really like oh, Dian the Woods, No,

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Speaker 1: thank you, Yeah, not for you know, Kurt Cobain. People

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Speaker 1: are always trying to find that photo his his wouldn't

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Speaker 1: the crime scene but his death scene. Or was it

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Speaker 1: that's right Courtney or who's that investigative turnalist that tried

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Speaker 1: depending on her I know there's a documentary. Yeah it

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Speaker 1: was that guy, Nick somethmer other Nick Cage, Nick Cave,

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Speaker 1: Nick Love, No, none of those people, Nick and Jessica. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's what it was. Uh So the mid range shots

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Speaker 1: are pieces of evidence, um, like the murder weapon if

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Speaker 1: it's there, Um, but you're not you know, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: do some different variations. You're gonna zoom in on the

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Speaker 1: murder weapon obviously, but you also want to show it

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Speaker 1: in relation to where it is on the scene, like

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Speaker 1: it was laying uh you know, on the floor three

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Speaker 1: ft from the body. Yes, and now you can take

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Speaker 1: it away now right. Um, After the mid range we

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Speaker 1: come to the close up, and the close up is

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Speaker 1: going to be like maybe the murder instrument, um, a

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Speaker 1: tattoo on the victim's body, UM scar serial number. If

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Speaker 1: somebody used like a DVD player to beat somebody else

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Speaker 1: to death with it, you got to catalog the murder

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Speaker 1: weapon that kind of thing. Good point, um, So that

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Speaker 1: this is what the close ups useful for. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: then when you're taking it a close up photo, you

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Speaker 1: take one with like an instrument, like a rule or

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Speaker 1: something like that to provide scae all. Yeah, and then

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Speaker 1: you also take a duplicate photo of the same photo

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Speaker 1: without the measuring device. So the defense can't be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: well that ruler was actually covering up, you know, in

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Speaker 1: controvertible evidence that my client was not guilty, covering up

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Speaker 1: the name of the killer. Yeah, so it's important to

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Speaker 1: take two, you're right. Uh. They also have to be

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Speaker 1: really detailed with the photolog um has all the details.

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Speaker 1: Nowadays with digital photography, you have you know, you can

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Speaker 1: have the sequence of photo number, the date and time,

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Speaker 1: all that like already stamped on. But back in the day,

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Speaker 1: they would you know, use a log and a book

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Speaker 1: to record all this. Um. The filters that they use, Like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I used to daylight filter out here because I had

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Speaker 1: to but it's you know, it can't be tainted. So

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Speaker 1: you gotta let people know that that was a filter use.

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Speaker 1: You gotta be honest, You gotta be very honest, Chuck.

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Speaker 1: We also mentioned that you, um, there's a standard operating

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Speaker 1: procedure that you have to come up with. One of

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Speaker 1: the big one of the big aspects that lens readents

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Speaker 1: to crime scene photography is that sensationalism has been pulled

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Speaker 1: completely out of it has no place in it whatsoever. Um.

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Speaker 1: And one of the ways that you ensure that you

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Speaker 1: your photographers aren't being sensational or can't even be accused

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Speaker 1: of being sensational, is by coming up with the standard

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Speaker 1: operating procedure and method that you are are going to

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Speaker 1: employ when taking photographs. Right, So you have to have

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Speaker 1: things like maximum depth of field, which is the amount

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Speaker 1: of a photograph that's crisp and clearing in focus. Right.

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Speaker 1: You can't be all already and do one of those

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Speaker 1: like a portrait things where the background is blurry might

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Speaker 1: look neat if you're telling the cadaver to make love

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Speaker 1: to the camera, you're you're you're on the wrong path

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Speaker 1: with your crime scene photography. Yeah, the last thing you

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Speaker 1: want is for your boss to say, boy, these are

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Speaker 1: really sensational. Yes, because why you might say, well, thanks,

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Speaker 1: that's not what you're looking for, not at all. You

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Speaker 1: don't want art school calling you. So other technical specs

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Speaker 1: that should make up this UM photo taking procedure right are, UM,

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Speaker 1: you want to make sure that the photos as sharp

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Speaker 1: sharp as possible, UM, and that none of the devices

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Speaker 1: that you're using to measure are blocking anything. You don't

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Speaker 1: want to get creative with how you take the photo.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to cover up anything, leave anything out.

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Speaker 1: You can't let anything be blurry. That's important, that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing, right, And that's just part of this larger

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Speaker 1: standard standard operating procedure. Correct. Yeah, and that's for for

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Speaker 1: the picture taken itself, But the procedure also includes afterward. UM,

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Speaker 1: you have to have a standard chain of custody UM

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Speaker 1: image security because you know, Dexter leads a crime scene

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Speaker 1: with the camera and what's he gonna do with it? Right?

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Speaker 1: Or if he hands it to UM? What's the one guy? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the funny comic relief. Yeah, have you seen his trucks?

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Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it he hands it to UM. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to get any emails, Chuck, we'll look it up.

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Speaker 1: He hands it to Macusa macause, and um, Macusa should

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Speaker 1: sign something that says, I took custody of this flash drive,

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Speaker 1: um from Dexter Morgan, and my name is MARCUSA exactly,

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Speaker 1: and then he'll make some vague sexual joke and everyone

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Speaker 1: will laugh at home. You have to preserve that original

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Speaker 1: digital image. So let's say you want to blow it

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Speaker 1: up and change the contrast a bit to to highlight something.

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Speaker 1: That's all great, that's all groovy, but you have to

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Speaker 1: note that you've done that, and you have to have

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Speaker 1: the original in its original form and format as whatever.

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Speaker 1: If it's a jpeg, you can't make it a gift

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Speaker 1: or a gift, certainly not an animated gift that's grousing

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Speaker 1: would be weird. Uh. There are a lot of times

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Speaker 1: there's image security software to make sure everything stays like

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Speaker 1: it should. You have to store it in uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: like on a hard drive. You have to backups of it, right,

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Speaker 1: just gotta be really, really really detailed. It's not like

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Speaker 1: your vacation photos. No, anytime you do anything to manipulate

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Speaker 1: that photo, you should log it and be again, you

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Speaker 1: have to be just be completely honest. You shouldn't have

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Speaker 1: any dog in the fight. No, of course not. Your

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Speaker 1: just your job is to document the scene and and

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Speaker 1: extract or prevent any emotion from coming into it as

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Speaker 1: much as possible. Yeah, exactly right. Let's talk about the kit,

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Speaker 1: which isn't super exciting. But you're gonna have your camera,

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Speaker 1: maybe a couple. Yeah, if you're into that, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have a variety of lenses that will work for different

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Speaker 1: crime scenes. You're gonna have some filters if you need them.

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Speaker 1: You want your wide angle lens, you want your mid range.

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Speaker 1: You want if you want a zoom in on something

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Speaker 1: and you don't want to get down on the floor,

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Speaker 1: you might want a zoom lens. Yeah, be a good

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Speaker 1: IDEA light meter make sure everything looks great. So, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: what is the um? I noticed? The great card? Was

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Speaker 1: the great card? I saw it works with the light meter. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think you use that to to to set your meter.

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Speaker 1: Is that right? Like you use the like that's your

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Speaker 1: like your meter understands this is the g card. It's

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Speaker 1: it's the zero value. I think so. I think it's

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Speaker 1: sort of like white balancing a video camera. Okay, I

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Speaker 1: might I might have that wrong though, Um, and generally

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Speaker 1: you're gonna use color unless uh they said things like

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Speaker 1: latent fingerprints sometimes or show up better in black and white. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but we mentioned video. Since uh I said that word, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think, um, it's become a lot more prevalent since

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Speaker 1: the advent of the video camera, let's say so, and

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Speaker 1: especially nowadays. You know the uh SLRs that shoot great

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Speaker 1: high deaf video. I've seen she can have all in

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Speaker 1: one package here. You don't have to have a couple

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Speaker 1: of cameras you have to tote around. So SLR a

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Speaker 1: brand name. No, okay, it's uh single lens reflex. I

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Speaker 1: believe that's a guess, all right, Josh. Videotape You know

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Speaker 1: a lot about photography, don't you. My dad's a big

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Speaker 1: shutter bug. I grew up with it. Videotape is used

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Speaker 1: a lot nowadays, and that can do a lot of

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Speaker 1: things that regular SLR photography cannot, Like show you you

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Speaker 1: can literally walk a jury through a crime scene and

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Speaker 1: show relationships to uh, you know, the body or the

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Speaker 1: uh the weapons. Like a picture is one thing. It's

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Speaker 1: worth a thousand words at least, But twenty four frames

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Speaker 1: per second that's worth right, I would say, yes. So

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Speaker 1: videos has used a lot of times, and they say

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Speaker 1: if there's video that they actually video before they take

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Speaker 1: the still photographs and the c s. I guys are

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Speaker 1: out there going come on, you're gonna draw a picture too. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's what they used to do originally, they would draw.

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Speaker 1: I was that with that one. Yeah, they would sketch

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Speaker 1: the crime scene. But of course, I mean, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: get a lot more subjective than sketches. So when photography

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Speaker 1: came along, people see he's done it pretty quick. When

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Speaker 1: the video camera came along, people were like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is just is good, if not better, let's accompany the two.

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Speaker 1: But you need both. Uh. They they use infrared films

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Speaker 1: sometimes if it's dark and you need to get a

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Speaker 1: blood stain, that's when you're you're super fancy. I think

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Speaker 1: what else? Oh, I'll tell you. The thing I thought

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Speaker 1: was cool was the if you video blood spatter on

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Speaker 1: a wall. Let's say someone's brains are blown out over

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Speaker 1: a wall, you could potentially you could potentially photograph that,

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Speaker 1: put a yard stick in there as as a as

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Speaker 1: a frame of reference, and then years later or days later,

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Speaker 1: you can uh make a slide. You know, if it's

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Speaker 1: just if if if it's a slide, then you can

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Speaker 1: project that onto the wall, even onto that wall actual size,

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Speaker 1: so you can kind of recreate it as it was

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Speaker 1: before it got all cleaned up, projected right there on

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Speaker 1: the wall. It was really kind of like Princess Leiah. Uh. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess so when when R two D two Uh

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Speaker 1: is that what you're talking about, or when archie Chi

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Speaker 1: was projecting her as a hologram. Yeah, although nothing like that. Um,

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Speaker 1: you want to talk about Wegi. Yeah, Wegi's one cool cat.

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Speaker 1: What's this deal? Wegi is uh the I guess pseudonym

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Speaker 1: of a guy named Arthur Fellig And he was big

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Speaker 1: from the twenties to you, I think the fifties. He

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Speaker 1: was an independent photographer photojournalist and uh he had a

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Speaker 1: special knack for uh sniffing out crime scenes, so much

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Speaker 1: so that someone once complimented him that he had the

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Speaker 1: sense of a Weigi board to predict when a crime

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Speaker 1: was gonna occur, so we would be in the right

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Speaker 1: place at the right time to like really get all

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Speaker 1: the photography he wanted out of it, right, how do

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Speaker 1: you do that? Well? He lived in a shack behind

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Speaker 1: the police station in Manhattan, and he had a police scanner.

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Speaker 1: Um and yeah, he basically didn't have a life, so

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Speaker 1: he just sat around listening to the police scanner and

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Speaker 1: he would just head on over. He also had a

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Speaker 1: pretty extensive network of informants, um, cops, robbers, bar keeps,

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Speaker 1: you know, prostitutes whoever. I wonder if they based uh

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Speaker 1: An l A confidential was that Danny DeVito was the

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Speaker 1: Was he the photographer? Now? I think this guy was

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Speaker 1: way more put together than Danny DeVito's character was. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: He um, although it would make sense because Weigi, which

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Speaker 1: he adopted that name, but he spelled it phonetically W

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Speaker 1: E G E. Right. Um. He did travel to l

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Speaker 1: A and uh he created a spread called Naked City

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Speaker 1: and it became the the um movie, The Naked City. Right.

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Speaker 1: But he was just this famous crime scene photographer. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that he became famous for was not

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Speaker 1: just the crime scene any smoke. Could you know, shoot

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Speaker 1: a dead body, and that was something um, but he

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Speaker 1: would often turn and just start taking photos like close

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Speaker 1: ups of the crowd in their prairie in ecstasy, you know,

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Speaker 1: like with these crazy like some would be laughing and

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Speaker 1: others would be smiling and some would be crying, and

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Speaker 1: it was just like it would capture the range of emotion.

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Speaker 1: And he has one very famous photograph called Their First

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Speaker 1: Murder that was taken in Williamsburg, which is hipster central

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Speaker 1: now in Brooklyn Um and they it's just this group

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Speaker 1: of people of all ages. They all seem to be white,

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Speaker 1: but they're all just in this weird pose, like almost

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Speaker 1: writhing in ecstasy, um on the scene of a murder,

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Speaker 1: like before the cops have even got there. Like that

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Speaker 1: crowd that crowds around. Oh yeah, look at him, like

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Speaker 1: Ray Ray Bradberry wrote about them, the crowd. They would

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Speaker 1: be there on the scene when an accident occurred. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like that. But anyway, we Gie had

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Speaker 1: some pretty good stuff well, and that that kind of

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Speaker 1: brings up a point that crime scene photographs have been viewed.

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Speaker 1: And this is once from back in the day. I

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Speaker 1: don't think they new ones as art, but in uh,

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Speaker 1: in Hollywood, in l A. They dug up in two

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Speaker 1: thousand one a bot well, I say a box. It's

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Speaker 1: probably more than one box. A trove, a trove, a

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Speaker 1: treasure trove if you will, of old forensic photos, and

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Speaker 1: some of them were some of the most infamous crimes

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Speaker 1: and murders in the in the history, and black Dahlia

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Speaker 1: comes to mind. I don't know if that was in there,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I wonder if it was in there. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure it was probably And uh, some of these negatives

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Speaker 1: were decomposing and deteriorating at this point, so they said,

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Speaker 1: you know, like we should preserve these because it's historical record,

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Speaker 1: and some of these are really great photographs. And so, uh,

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Speaker 1: years later they actually took it on tour in art galleries.

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Speaker 1: What was it called. I think it was called I

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Speaker 1: know Wegi did that, didn't he? Yeah, we Gi had

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Speaker 1: one in New York called the Wegi Murder is My Business?

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Speaker 1: He I read a quote from him. There's a pretty

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Speaker 1: cool book Chuck called um Shots in the Dark, based

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Speaker 1: on like a true TV documentary, I think, but it's

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of crimes, the photography, but it's an

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Speaker 1: explanation about crime scene photography too. But there's a quote

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Speaker 1: from from Ouiji where like gangsters in the forties and fifties,

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Speaker 1: like the big Ones, they reveled in their notoriety, but

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Speaker 1: it was the young punks who tried to cover up

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Speaker 1: and pretend they weren't, you know, criminals. And he would

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Speaker 1: always say to him, like, you just wait until you

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Speaker 1: make it big, you punk, then I'll take your picture.

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Speaker 1: So he's a tough guy. Really Yeah, no, I think

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Speaker 1: he's dead. He was working in the twenties to the fifties. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean he knows how old he was. He's immortal.

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Speaker 1: He could be like really old. So crime scene photography,

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Speaker 1: I don't have anything else. I don't either, pretty straightforward.

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Speaker 1: If you want to see wegi's their first murder, it's

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Speaker 1: pretty interesting. Um, you should type in crime scene photography

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Speaker 1: in the search bar how stuff works dot com. This

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Speaker 1: concludes are Um dexter Lovin series Valentine Week series of

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Speaker 1: crime and documentation. Indeed um And since I said search bar,

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00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: that means chuck. Of course, it's time for listener mail. Yeah,

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00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 1: we're doing a shout out and now I say we

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00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 1: never do them, but we're kind of doing them more.

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00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: The only reason I'm doing this is because this, uh,

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00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: this lady has been writing me since last summer August.

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00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: I think, how do you really make them wait her

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00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 1: birthday shout out? No, she broke me in August for

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00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 1: for the stud's birthday, which is now. So I thought,

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00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: you know, persistance pays off. Sarah So her boyfriend, his

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00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:34,959
Speaker 1: name is Graham Baker, and he is turning, I believe, tomorrow,

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00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 1: and she says she's collecting birthday greetings and he's such

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00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: a super fan that she thought, I think. He actually

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00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: said if I ever received anything from Josh and Chuck

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00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: would probably lose my mind. So hopefully he's going crazy

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00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: right now. And she said, here's some information about him

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00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: that you should read. He's turns twenty five on February eighth.

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00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: He's doing his Masters in Religious Studies at McMaster University

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00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 1: in Canada, Ontario, Canada, and it's going to complete his

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00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 1: thesis this summer. You need some encouragement, she says, So

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00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: keep on plugging away there, Graham. He's originally from Edmonton.

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00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: Josh calls Calgary as home and is in Hamiltons until summer.

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00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 1: That's a lot of information, she says, I live in Calgary.

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00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: Oh there's more. Is this social security number in there? Now? Uh?

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00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: They both listened to stuff Mom never told you and

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00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: stuff you should know on their road trips. Nice He

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00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 1: lived in Prague for four months to study abroad. Very cool.

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00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: He really likes Star Trek, he's really funny. And his

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00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 1: two favorite bands yes, Henry Clay People, Nope, the band No,

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00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 1: those are my two favorite bands. Um, Jimmy Cliff now

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00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 1: Wilco in the National Todd run gren Man, Todd run

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00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: gren So Graham, happy birthday, dude, and tell Sarah to

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00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: quit emailing us. This has been going on for months.

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00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 1: I think you can reasonably block her now. Yeah she's gone.

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00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: But um yeah, Happy birthday, Doude and thanks for listening.

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00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: Good luck with that religious studies. Happy birthday, Graham and Sarah.

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00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: That was very kind of you. So um, if you

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00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 1: have a birthday request, birthday shoutout request, don't send it.

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00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: You can send us something else though, And if you do,

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00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: go ahead and email us at stuff podcast at how

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00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands

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00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com.

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00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: To learn more about the podcast, click on the podcast

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00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: icon in the upper right corner of our homepage. The

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00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: how Stuff Works iPhone app has arrived. Download it today

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00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:42,719
Speaker 1: on iTunes. Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand

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00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 1: twelve camera. It's ready. Are you