Speaker 1: This is the Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
Speaker 1: with her radio Wow Ashley. It is nine thirty at
Speaker 1: night where I'm at in Orlando, Florida. I'm here for
Speaker 1: the Dim Resorts Golf tournament, and we felt like it
Speaker 1: was time to have a special almost famous podcast with
Speaker 1: the huge Bachelor news that came up this week. Yep,
Speaker 1: so Claire and Dale broke up. And if you guys
Speaker 1: are looking at the post on social media, doesn't seem
Speaker 1: like anybody is surprised. That is kind of sad to say,
Speaker 1: but I would say that there's been signs. Last week
Speaker 1: we were talking about how there was a report that
Speaker 1: there was some tension going on, because actually it wasn't
Speaker 1: even last week. It was a couple of days ago. Um.
Speaker 1: She was holding her mom's hand, talking about how it
Speaker 1: was an emotional day. She wasn't showing off her wedding ring.
Speaker 1: Claire and Dale hadn't been up, hadn't been seen together
Speaker 1: on social media for I guess a little over a week.
Speaker 1: And Dale had also posted a Bible passage, so people
Speaker 1: were just thinking that they were going through a rough
Speaker 1: time at the same time. So it put up red
Speaker 1: flags for the fandom. And just yesterday they confirmed that
Speaker 1: they broke up. It was kind of interesting the way
Speaker 1: it unraveled though. So first there was a report from
Speaker 1: E News that Claire and Dale were taking time apart.
Speaker 1: They said that they've been fighting a lot recently, that
Speaker 1: the main disagreement was over lifestyle differences, lifestyle preferences, and
Speaker 1: that Dale wanted to live in a lively, big city
Speaker 1: focus on his career and Claire wanted to stay in
Speaker 1: Sacramento and helped take care of for mom. Bottom line
Speaker 1: is it was very tense between them. Um. And then
Speaker 1: there was also an insider who said that Dale felt
Speaker 1: like he was rushing into something that he was unsure
Speaker 1: about that were still trying it to know each other,
Speaker 1: figuring it all out. So the whole BottomLine, like earlier
Speaker 1: in the day, was that taking some time apart was
Speaker 1: the theme. But it wasn't that long after that report
Speaker 1: came out that Dale posted a breakup announcement and this
Speaker 1: was not a time apart type situation that he was
Speaker 1: a painting a picture of. He was telling everybody it's
Speaker 1: done now. Ben. My theory on this. My theory on
Speaker 1: this is that Claire and Dale felt like they needed
Speaker 1: to acknowledge all the rumors. So they put out or
Speaker 1: she put out, this is just speculation that they were
Speaker 1: taking time apart, and she in her head was thinking, maybe, um,
Speaker 1: we can reconcile, maybe we can figure this out. I
Speaker 1: don't want to announce anything like a definitive breakup yet.
Speaker 1: And then I think that that Dale was like, I'm
Speaker 1: over it. No, this is a breakup. This isn't time apart,
Speaker 1: And that's why he went on Instagram and just addressed
Speaker 1: it himself. I hope not like, I really hope that's
Speaker 1: not how that's played out. So there's a lot to
Speaker 1: uncover here. Obviously, we have a whole podcast to talk
Speaker 1: about it. Actually, just gave you the headlines and everything
Speaker 1: going on. Actually, I wanted to dissect a little bit
Speaker 1: of what you said. One of the things is you
Speaker 1: kind of started out by saying, it doesn't seem like
Speaker 1: many people were surprised by this. Well, I think there's
Speaker 1: a few reasons for that, right. One is, the rumors
Speaker 1: have been swirling for the last week and a half
Speaker 1: that something was going on, right, so like the surprise
Speaker 1: had been taken away. I know when you and I
Speaker 1: first saw the headlines, Uh, that there is trouble and paradise.
Speaker 1: We both in a sense of this mystic, like there's
Speaker 1: always these type of rumors with bachelor couples. And then second,
Speaker 1: as they continued and we started to read why people
Speaker 1: were assuming this, we were shocked at first as well.
Speaker 1: But the shock we're off when it just kept happed,
Speaker 1: like when the headline just kept coming out every day
Speaker 1: that something was going on. So that's one reason why
Speaker 1: I don't think it was shocked. The second reason is
Speaker 1: obviously the storeline that this couple has with fascination. We've
Speaker 1: never seen anything like this before. You know, they came
Speaker 1: on a show. A few weeks later, they leave together.
Speaker 1: Like when they left together, our hope as somebody that
Speaker 1: like Claire a lot, was like, Hey, I hope she's
Speaker 1: throwing all of rigs into this basket because she knows
Speaker 1: that's the right thing. That's why I then, and I
Speaker 1: want to throw it to you for a second. That's
Speaker 1: why Then when the comment is made, uh that somebody
Speaker 1: said Dale felt like they're rushing into something, Well, yes,
Speaker 1: but he agreed to that, Like you know what, he
Speaker 1: knew where Claire was at, he knew where she stood,
Speaker 1: She knew her where her intentions were. He knew that
Speaker 1: by her saying, Dale, if you're into this thing, like
Speaker 1: we're going to leave together, Like he knew the risk
Speaker 1: that she was taking and so like did he just
Speaker 1: not like a what? Like why now is he gonna
Speaker 1: over rushing? Like back then there rushing. I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm going to say something that I don't know for sure,
Speaker 1: but I think that a lot of people listening will
Speaker 1: agree with me on I feel like there are a
Speaker 1: lot of signs from the start. Then he was in
Speaker 1: it for the fame and his Instagram. It was a
Speaker 1: little bit worrisome early on, just like the vibes you
Speaker 1: got from it just seemed like a guy who like
Speaker 1: wanted the limelight, right, And I think, if I'm going
Speaker 1: to be super honest, there were a lot of signs
Speaker 1: during that sit down with Chris Harrison, like I really
Speaker 1: didn't want to believe it, and especially when I was
Speaker 1: watching her four weeks of the episodes, I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like I'm into it. I'm just gonna like try not
Speaker 1: to be so cautious because this is a little bit bizarre,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I don't think love at first sight
Speaker 1: is bizarre, but like I do think that it was
Speaker 1: an unconventional way of like going through your season and
Speaker 1: leaving really and not really like getting to know the
Speaker 1: guy completely. But I get it. I get it. I
Speaker 1: totally get it. And you guys know, like how many
Speaker 1: times I explained like how you were Actually I was
Speaker 1: like drawing fully, Yeah, exactly, I was, but not at first.
Speaker 1: You You Dale won you over because you finally said,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna shoot, like, I'm liking him because of the
Speaker 1: way he's speaking to Claire and the way he's reaffirming
Speaker 1: Claire and the way that he's processing like the quick
Speaker 1: movement of this relationship. You won his team because you
Speaker 1: thought he had Claire's best interest in Yeah. So, like
Speaker 1: I was really hesitant at first, and then I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to be who I am truly, which
Speaker 1: is the internal optimist. And then and I bought it,
Speaker 1: Like I was totally like all in felt it felt
Speaker 1: felt it until that sit down with Chris Harrison, and
Speaker 1: I just thought there was like a lot of bi
Speaker 1: language things, like I just felt like he was like
Speaker 1: trying to he was forcing a smile. I think when
Speaker 1: she said babies, it's wild that stood out like everyone
Speaker 1: everyone so clearly like yes it's TV, and yes we
Speaker 1: watch this and a lot of times like did it
Speaker 1: really happen that way? But live TV doesn't lie. And
Speaker 1: when we all saw that, we went something's wrong here, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we all did. And like I think some of us
Speaker 1: try to laugh it off, be like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: she went straight for the babies and he said marriage.
Speaker 1: But if you rewatch that clip like I did this week,
Speaker 1: it's like all over his face that he's kind of like,
Speaker 1: oh God, what have I gotten myself into? I wonder
Speaker 1: if that's a moment to hit like one of the
Speaker 1: moments to hit him, But you know, it's what Okay,
Speaker 1: So if you know that your opinion, um, what you're
Speaker 1: intelli to is like hey, using it for the fame,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't disagree with you. I think, like a lot
Speaker 1: of people are. I think he came onto this excited.
Speaker 1: I mean his Instagram profile said that he wanted to
Speaker 1: be a host. Is that the career now? Like you
Speaker 1: think he's focusing on do we know, like is that
Speaker 1: kind of is the modeling and hosting the career path
Speaker 1: he's going down? And he was maybe at first going
Speaker 1: on the show, like a lot of people do to say, hey,
Speaker 1: this is going to help that career, and now he
Speaker 1: found himself in a relationship and now he's like, well, crap,
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do, which just like, seriously,
Speaker 1: no shame to that. Like I've been very honest that,
Speaker 1: like I had those sorts of intentions as well going
Speaker 1: on the show. But I also, like I've said a
Speaker 1: ba jillion times, I knew that my number one priority
Speaker 1: in life was finding love, was having a family and
Speaker 1: all that, and Claire just made it so clear that
Speaker 1: like marriage and children were her priority in this that
Speaker 1: I think it was a little bit I don't know
Speaker 1: what the right word is, Well, certainly unfortunate that I
Speaker 1: don't think that Dale was ready for that. And I
Speaker 1: say that because that is one of the things that
Speaker 1: the insiders are saying. I don't even know if it's
Speaker 1: an insider. I think it actually might be Dale himself,
Speaker 1: um who says that he just isn't ready for kids
Speaker 1: in marriage right now, which is fine, But then you
Speaker 1: don't go on Claire Crawleys season. You don't do that.
Speaker 1: You can go on you can you could go on
Speaker 1: somebody else's season and then be like okay, and then
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna date and we're gonna be engaged
Speaker 1: and we're gonna enjoy that for like two years. But
Speaker 1: you know that Claire wanted that immediately and definitely. Well, actually, uh,
Speaker 1: let's take a break here. When we came back, I
Speaker 1: want to talk to you about some headlines leading up to,
Speaker 1: you know, their breakup that confused me and I need
Speaker 1: your clarity on we'll be back with the almost furna
Speaker 1: this podcast. All right, Ashley, I don't think it was
Speaker 1: any more than a week here, maybe two episodes ago
Speaker 1: that we had read a headline that Dale had gone
Speaker 1: onto the bachelorette. He was obviously asked on, but he
Speaker 1: only went on because Claire Crawley was the bachelorette, like
Speaker 1: and he and this obviously was a recent article. So
Speaker 1: he was speaking about this and and saying it with
Speaker 1: you know, positive with positive words about Claire not more
Speaker 1: than two weeks ago. So do you think this breakup
Speaker 1: kind of like when do you think it ended? Um?
Speaker 1: Because I remember the headline that came out this said
Speaker 1: he only went on this season for Claire also was
Speaker 1: kind of coming out alongside the headlines that were saying, hey, there,
Speaker 1: this isn't going well for Dale and Claire. Okay, I
Speaker 1: actually feel like some sort of back alleyway I know
Speaker 1: when it happened, because you know that beach house that
Speaker 1: they spent some time at a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: maybe like a month or so ago, it's called it's
Speaker 1: called Lahoya Beach House. Um, well, they reached out to
Speaker 1: us to see if we wanted to have a little
Speaker 1: stay there as well. So I was going back and
Speaker 1: forth with the owner and they were like, Claire and
Speaker 1: Dale are right are there right now? Um, they just
Speaker 1: can't get enough of it there. And that was a
Speaker 1: week ago, last Friday, So that was like okay, so
Speaker 1: maybe almost two weeks ago. Okay, So I feel like
Speaker 1: that was I'm totally speculating here, but that really aligns
Speaker 1: with the meaning at those Instagram posts. So I think
Speaker 1: that that was like their last trip together, like the
Speaker 1: last extended period of time I had together. Yeah. Well, uh,
Speaker 1: I mean, I know there's there's a lot of speculation
Speaker 1: going on here, and I know having a kind of
Speaker 1: like a rush podcast about a breakup seems and sensitive.
Speaker 1: But let's stop here and just say, like we're just
Speaker 1: trying to talk about something it's obviously bigger in Bachelor Nation.
Speaker 1: And really this whole podcast is to go through a
Speaker 1: lot of the recent breakups and bachelation because there has
Speaker 1: been a tome quarantine has been hard on people, and
Speaker 1: it's it's left some couples kind of looking for answers. Uh,
Speaker 1: breakup suck, um, and they really suck when you're there.
Speaker 1: They're talked about publicly, but they're gonna be talked about
Speaker 1: publicly as part of going on the show. We're invested
Speaker 1: into the love stories of these couples. Uh. I do
Speaker 1: want to stop here though and say, Ashley, I really
Speaker 1: feel for Claire just so much, Like she really wanted
Speaker 1: this opportunity. We've been always speak to her privately a
Speaker 1: few months back, and like being the Bachelor was a
Speaker 1: big deal to her. She was very excited for it. Um,
Speaker 1: she thought this was her chance that love. Remember Chris
Speaker 1: Harrison telling her like this big chance that love, and
Speaker 1: she felt like she got that second opportunity. And now
Speaker 1: she finds herself it sounds like single again. Um. I
Speaker 1: mean it just sucks. Like it's just hard to it's
Speaker 1: hard to process. Yeah, it's just hard to process. Where
Speaker 1: Claire is sitting, because we all know Claire was very
Speaker 1: invested in this. Where does this leave Claire? Actually, you
Speaker 1: know Claire fairly well, Like what where does this leave her? Um?
Speaker 1: I mean, I just hope that she finds somebody like
Speaker 1: right away and it's a big laughing the in Dale's face,
Speaker 1: because she'll end up getting her happily ever after. And
Speaker 1: maybe if it's like the way that you did, maybe
Speaker 1: this guy sees her on the show, or like she's
Speaker 1: led to this person because of her involvement in the show.
Speaker 1: I don't know, And I just want to clarify what
Speaker 1: I said earlier about Dale not being ready for marriage
Speaker 1: and kids. That was from the source. Um, he's the
Speaker 1: source says he did have feelings for Claire, but just
Speaker 1: wasn't on the same page as her. He was hoping
Speaker 1: it would grow, um and he would come around to this,
Speaker 1: but just no, Well it's heartbreaking. Ben. Do you remember
Speaker 1: how excited I was, like so so excited when Claire
Speaker 1: was announced as the bachelorette, And I was like, nobody
Speaker 1: is more deserving than this, And I hate using that
Speaker 1: we're deserving in this situation because I think everybody truly
Speaker 1: deserves love. But everything that she went through and like
Speaker 1: the way she carries herself, I just really felt like
Speaker 1: it was her time. Well, her time might not be up,
Speaker 1: actually be as there's a recent turn of events. Uh,
Speaker 1: Dispatch nations very Spencer Robinson, if you remember, I think
Speaker 1: he received as like first impression resume. We've never really
Speaker 1: heard from him again. Um, he has already shot his
Speaker 1: shot with Clear on Instagram publicly. Is it too soon
Speaker 1: to do that? It's not too soon for Spencer to
Speaker 1: do that, That's cute. It would be too soon for
Speaker 1: Claire to accept via Twitter or Instagram? Okay, what do
Speaker 1: you Yeah? You agree? Yeah, I mean we've we've talked
Speaker 1: about any times on the podcast. How soon is too soon?
Speaker 1: I don't know if you can answer that, Like, I
Speaker 1: don't know if there is a good answer. We've asked everybody. Um,
Speaker 1: it's whenever Claire feels like she's ready. And but yes,
Speaker 1: Spencer has reached out to her. Um, he's obviously interested. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, I think we could probably assume that he
Speaker 1: went on to the season expecting Claire to be the
Speaker 1: bachelor at Yeah, so he you know, we know he
Speaker 1: has intrigued there. Uh not against it. I'm glad he
Speaker 1: kind of did it. Maybe a little too soon for him,
Speaker 1: like maybe he should have just take a step back
Speaker 1: if he's really interested in this and said, Okay, let
Speaker 1: me give her some time to heal. But then again,
Speaker 1: like what if she is to find somebody, you know,
Speaker 1: Prince Charming in the corner, he would miss a shot.
Speaker 1: So hey, I can't hate the guy for it. Um Now,
Speaker 1: Ashley to kind of close this thought about Dale and Claire, uh,
Speaker 1: we we have heard that they're trying to work through this.
Speaker 1: This is came in from a couple of sources that yes,
Speaker 1: they're taking time apart. Yes they you know this isn't
Speaker 1: going well, but they are trying to work through it.
Speaker 1: Do you believe they're working through it? Do you believe
Speaker 1: the Claire and Dale story is over? If you had
Speaker 1: to guess, no, I think it's over. I think that's
Speaker 1: why he put kind of like the bullet through it
Speaker 1: yesterday when he posted that Instagram, because she hasn't said
Speaker 1: anything yet, so I think he was like, this is over.
Speaker 1: Don't want anybody to think that there's hope. And I
Speaker 1: think it's so sad, Like it's so sad. I know, like,
Speaker 1: there were just so many breakups this year that we'll
Speaker 1: go into. But like this one deaf when really ranks
Speaker 1: as far as the heart ranch goes, it really does
Speaker 1: what it has actually just mentioned. There has been a
Speaker 1: couple of breakups in Bachelor Nation this year. Some hurt
Speaker 1: really bad. Most of them hurt really bad. Breakups just
Speaker 1: hurt in every way. Uh, we're gonna talk about all
Speaker 1: these breakups kind of run through the list. Um and
Speaker 1: when we come back with almost Fanas podcast, Well we're back.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about the breakups this uh, well within
Speaker 1: the last like twelve months in Bachelor Nation. Uh. This
Speaker 1: list is surprising because there's a lot of people here
Speaker 1: we know, we love. Uh, it's just not ideal. And
Speaker 1: obviously with the recent news of Dale and Claire, which
Speaker 1: is huge news and Bachelor Nation, it's a it's a
Speaker 1: lead and and their partner breaking up. We have to
Speaker 1: talk about it this week because we didn't get to
Speaker 1: it on the last episode this week because it hadn't
Speaker 1: happened yet. Well, Ashley, let me read through this list.
Speaker 1: There's another big breakup that was announced and this one,
Speaker 1: this one really hurts too. It's Brees styles and Chris
Speaker 1: Watson announced their breakup in January. This January, I mean
Speaker 1: that one's really hard. They're they're from Listen to Your Heart.
Speaker 1: That one sucks. And then um, JP and Ashley obviously
Speaker 1: that was the one that shocked that donation. The next
Speaker 1: one is one that I know you have a heart
Speaker 1: tied to Carly and Evan. Yeah. Um, Crystal and Chris,
Speaker 1: Now that's one that's like really was hard to hear.
Speaker 1: You know. We like when it happened, We're like, man,
Speaker 1: we were there at the wedding, We're excited for them.
Speaker 1: But then it looks like Crystal has like found her
Speaker 1: perfect match, and so what do you do? Do you sell?
Speaker 1: You know, it was hard at first, but now we
Speaker 1: celebrate her. Um. Becca and Garrett, Now that's one, Yeah
Speaker 1: that like, you know, I was with him on a
Speaker 1: bus and there was no signs at the time. I
Speaker 1: could have never told you that. And then it ended
Speaker 1: and they've both got their separate ways. Garrett, you know,
Speaker 1: I think it's still dating the girl that he moved
Speaker 1: on to after Becca. Becca's in l A. Now, Um,
Speaker 1: that one was wild. And then Peter and Kelly, Uh,
Speaker 1: that one, I would say it feels most like Clarendale.
Speaker 1: It was like, what's really going on here? This seems wild,
Speaker 1: this seems crazy. Nobody can keep up with it. So like,
Speaker 1: but I mean, that's a wild list. And and the
Speaker 1: one that I don't want to dismiss and I want
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts on is the one Breathe and
Speaker 1: Chris from Listen to Your Heart. I mean I watched
Speaker 1: that show for the podcast, and not a lot of
Speaker 1: people in Batchel Nation watched that show, but we watched
Speaker 1: that show because we covered it. And that was a
Speaker 1: couple that you're like, this is magical, Like this this
Speaker 1: show is gonna work for at least one couple and
Speaker 1: it's all been worth it. That one's tough. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: felt it between them too. I guess I feel like
Speaker 1: for them, it like probably was a distance thing. I
Speaker 1: just don't know if they ever really like decided to
Speaker 1: move closer to each other. But then you know, there's
Speaker 1: the age old. If you really need to be with somebody,
Speaker 1: you figure that out. So they probably weren't meant to be. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: a lot of breakups and Batchel Nation this year. Hey,
Speaker 1: somebody's been there. I'm sorry. This sucks. It's not fun.
Speaker 1: It's not fun to have to listen to a podcast
Speaker 1: that people talk about it. It's not fun to see
Speaker 1: that on TV. But I mean, it is what you
Speaker 1: sign up for. Um. You know you sign up to
Speaker 1: find love. You also sign up for with the risk
Speaker 1: that that love is gonna work and that everybody is
Speaker 1: going to talk about your breakup. And here's the truth. Um,
Speaker 1: the hope I guess, because I know from my experience too,
Speaker 1: is uh that you're better for it, that you find
Speaker 1: the love of your life. That Claire finds love of
Speaker 1: for life. We want Dale to find that as well,
Speaker 1: and all these other couples that we just talked about. Um,
Speaker 1: but until you can do that, there is some grieving
Speaker 1: that's going to take place, I know from experience. In
Speaker 1: and in just a second, we're gonna have one of
Speaker 1: our favorite guests, Dr Hillary Goldscher. She came on to
Speaker 1: a past episode just a few months ago. She is
Speaker 1: a licensed clinical psychologist with a private practice in Beverly
Speaker 1: Hills and specializes in treatment of couples, relationships, depression, anxiety, trauma, grief,
Speaker 1: and eating disorders. We're going to just dig into what
Speaker 1: it's like to go through a breakup how do you
Speaker 1: process best, and then how do you speak to somebody?
Speaker 1: I think, um, who is within that trauma and who
Speaker 1: has been hurt? Dodger. Why has more bachelor couples broken
Speaker 1: up this year than any other year in the past. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't think that we can ignore that that we
Speaker 1: are in a pandemic and all of the restrictions and
Speaker 1: intimacy requirements that that bestows upon couples. And so whether
Speaker 1: it's a distance challenged or a um distance challenge from
Speaker 1: the standpoint of being away from each other or together
Speaker 1: too much, I think it certainly can bring to the
Speaker 1: forefront issues that can get diluted, and particularly in the
Speaker 1: bachelor world by all the outside noise and stuff, um,
Speaker 1: the fame and the excitement of the activity and attention,
Speaker 1: I think can dilute some of the core issues that
Speaker 1: perhaps more easily and painfully reveal themselves in a pandemic setting.
Speaker 1: You know, it's so it's interesting, It's always helpful talk
Speaker 1: to you because obviously we sit and we just had
Speaker 1: we've had a whole podcast talking about breakups, and you know,
Speaker 1: Astley I were texting before this was like, hey, does
Speaker 1: this feel insensitive? And obviously we have to cover the news,
Speaker 1: and we have to cover what's going on in bachelination.
Speaker 1: But just like last weeks with you, how do you
Speaker 1: talk to somebody that's like just fresh out of into
Speaker 1: a breakup, like they're just starting to like recon this
Speaker 1: new season a lot? How do you become a friend
Speaker 1: to them? How do you speak to them? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: love that you asked that question. I think it's so
Speaker 1: important because I think people have go to tactics in
Speaker 1: these kind of scenarios, sensitive scenarios that may not be useful.
Speaker 1: Either they want to move people off of the like
Speaker 1: painful difficult feeling, or they want to avoid it so
Speaker 1: as not to provoke the painful difficult feeling. And I think,
Speaker 1: as we talked about last time, UM though in a
Speaker 1: different context, that empathy is the best place to start.
Speaker 1: Empathy and acknowledgement, that being able to say, I know
Speaker 1: you're going through a tough time, I'm so sorry. That
Speaker 1: has to be so hard, and not being able, not
Speaker 1: trying to push them to another spot, not trying to
Speaker 1: use like platitudes are hyperbole, like you're gonna be okay,
Speaker 1: there's so many great guys out there for you, um
Speaker 1: or whatever, folks might say as as meaning to be
Speaker 1: of support, but um disallowing the person to kind of
Speaker 1: linger um this difficult season of life that they're experiencing.
Speaker 1: Nobody likes to go to go to someone and say
Speaker 1: I'm really suffering and have someone else say some version
Speaker 1: of like, you're gonna be okay? Right? That is so annoying.
Speaker 1: But is it bad that I just said, Like, my
Speaker 1: greatest hope for her is that she finds a guy
Speaker 1: right away and can show him well, look, I think
Speaker 1: things can coexist, right, and we can we can we
Speaker 1: can have these things all co exist. We can both
Speaker 1: say to someone I'm so sorry you're in pain. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm so available to sit with you in it. We
Speaker 1: don't have to fix it in this moment. You can
Speaker 1: just be in the messiness of it. And we can
Speaker 1: also hold out hopes and wishes for them right that.
Speaker 1: I hope you find love. I hope it happens quickly.
Speaker 1: I hope that the suffering um doesn't last as long
Speaker 1: as um one might imagine. Right, those things can co exist,
Speaker 1: and I think it's okay to allow them to. After
Speaker 1: you've spent enough time lingering in the difficult parts with
Speaker 1: someone it's it's really important to linger in difficult spaces
Speaker 1: with people and not um try to move over them
Speaker 1: too quickly. People can feel abandoned or not seen or
Speaker 1: heard if we do that, even if we have the
Speaker 1: best of intentions. How common is it in relationships to
Speaker 1: have one person to have the breakup be over the
Speaker 1: speed of the relationship, like I want to have kids
Speaker 1: and get married right now, and the other person being like, WHOA,
Speaker 1: I'm not in that place of life. I think that's
Speaker 1: a regular theme that emerges for folks, and it can
Speaker 1: be a heartbreaking one because people can have a lot
Speaker 1: of love for each other and be compatible in so
Speaker 1: many critical ways, but if that lifestyle piece is misaligned, um,
Speaker 1: reasonable reasonable people will decide that they probably shouldn't say together.
Speaker 1: Do you know that if people have different ideas about
Speaker 1: what their timelines are uncritical life stuff like marriage and kids, religion,
Speaker 1: et cetera, that it makes sense I'll be at quite
Speaker 1: painful decisions to make. It makes sense to decide to
Speaker 1: part ways if those those differences can't be bridge and
Speaker 1: that happens a lot for people on those are the
Speaker 1: sources of some of the biggest heartbreaks is when there's
Speaker 1: love there, but you can't um um find a way
Speaker 1: to to bridge that gap. Well, it brings us into
Speaker 1: kind of a question that I think so many people ask,
Speaker 1: and right now it feels like a good time to
Speaker 1: ask you if you were to give your high level
Speaker 1: I don't know if there is one on when a
Speaker 1: relationship is no longer healthy and when it does need
Speaker 1: to end? What are the signs? Um? If anybody's out
Speaker 1: there listening in a relationship but they're like, hey, I
Speaker 1: just don't know where this is going, I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is right or wrong, how would you guide them?
Speaker 1: How would you counsel them? Yeah? I mean I mean
Speaker 1: starting from the general and maybe breaking down to the
Speaker 1: more specific. I mean, if if there is pain more
Speaker 1: often than pleasure, a conflict more often than peace, if
Speaker 1: the rhythm of the relationship is intervening with you know,
Speaker 1: daily functioning, your relationships with your family, being effective at work,
Speaker 1: your sense of your own self concept um, those are
Speaker 1: our times that we really need to do some deep
Speaker 1: reflection whether or not a relationship is serving us, you know.
Speaker 1: So I think that's a more general answer, but a
Speaker 1: really critical one that when it becomes um uh, invasive
Speaker 1: in our daily functioning and in the critical areas of
Speaker 1: our life that we want to be UM content and
Speaker 1: peaceful is when we really need to do deep assessment
Speaker 1: and deep evaluation. And one of the things that we
Speaker 1: were just talking about is is having conflict or misalignment
Speaker 1: around critical issues. And of course UM communication styles and
Speaker 1: ability to navigate conflict is critical. I'm a couple of
Speaker 1: therapist with couples all the time on on managing conflict
Speaker 1: UM and building intimacy and navigating difficult topics. So it's
Speaker 1: not that if you have trouble in these areas you
Speaker 1: should just you know, break up. That's that's a mark
Speaker 1: of of any couple really is to struggle on some
Speaker 1: of these critical issues. But if UM you find no
Speaker 1: way through even with UM uh professional help or deep
Speaker 1: support from family or friends or pastors or um you know,
Speaker 1: other areas of support and you can't find your way
Speaker 1: through UM, it's it's important to do that that deep
Speaker 1: reflection whether or not the relationship is serving you. So
Speaker 1: we saw with Chris and Crystal, she moved on real quick, UM,
Speaker 1: like really quick. Is there such thing as moving on
Speaker 1: too soon? I Mean, it's such a tough one. I
Speaker 1: I don't think, UM, you know, one size fits all
Speaker 1: and UM we I'm sure everyone I'm in your audience
Speaker 1: knows someone who's moved down too quickly and it didn't
Speaker 1: serve them. And I'm sure everyone in the audience knows
Speaker 1: someone who moved on quote too quickly and it did
Speaker 1: serve them that it worked out. So I don't think
Speaker 1: we can we can come up with sort of one
Speaker 1: approach UM that makes the most sense. But to the
Speaker 1: extent that UM, one needs to self reflect on what
Speaker 1: didn't work in a relationship and how UM their own
Speaker 1: contribution to the dynamics that were dysfunctional, UM, how it
Speaker 1: showed up, how it emerged, how they managed it, where
Speaker 1: it comes from. Those sorts of self evaluations and analysis
Speaker 1: are critical not just to be in a relationship, but
Speaker 1: critical to one one's own personal sort of sense of
Speaker 1: groundedness and happiness. So I think post a relationship, it's
Speaker 1: a good time to do a deeper dive into some
Speaker 1: of those issues. But how we move through the world,
Speaker 1: how we move through the relationship. I would always recommend UM,
Speaker 1: to the extent possible, take time to to have a
Speaker 1: post relationship like UM analysis you know, to understand what
Speaker 1: worked and what didn't work, what we want moving forward,
Speaker 1: what we don't UM. But sometimes timing um is a
Speaker 1: funny thing, and someone shows up in our life UM
Speaker 1: at a time that arguably is an ideal, But somehow
Speaker 1: we can find a way to to merge. So UM,
Speaker 1: I'm saying two things that could be considered conflictual. But
Speaker 1: in the in the world of love, it it can be. Um.
Speaker 1: It's not always linear. Mm hmm. It's a It's such
Speaker 1: a great note for me that I'm writing down here
Speaker 1: is the self awareness, the analysis, taking time afterwards to
Speaker 1: be honest with yourself and be honest with the situation
Speaker 1: and learn from it. Like I mean, how great a
Speaker 1: teacher than pain? And it's uh, there's obviously a lot
Speaker 1: of couples going through a lot of painful things right now,
Speaker 1: and uh learning from that feel special. So you know,
Speaker 1: to kind of close here, um, just because we're on
Speaker 1: the topic. Oftentimes, Uh, you know, the breakup brings people
Speaker 1: into a place of anxiety or or depression or there's
Speaker 1: a lot of trauma involved. How do you how are
Speaker 1: we to be good friends? And then how do we
Speaker 1: also notice the signs of those things after a breakup. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think people sometimes fear that mentioning sadness
Speaker 1: or asking about someone's grieving period will somehow make the
Speaker 1: grieving worse or bring up something uncomfortable that the person
Speaker 1: wasn't UM currently thinking of. But that's not really how
Speaker 1: it goes people, UH sort of. Studies show UM areas
Speaker 1: in arenas around this that UM when people bring up
Speaker 1: feelings that are suppressed or already inside of us at
Speaker 1: a make the feeling worse. It in fact helps it
Speaker 1: to come up and out of us, rather than living
Speaker 1: inside of us and becoming UM toxic or creating symptoms,
Speaker 1: you know, like anxiety or depression or isolation. So all
Speaker 1: of this to say that asking you know, how how
Speaker 1: are you doing, or noticing you still seem really sad,
Speaker 1: you really seem like you're struggling, how can I help?
Speaker 1: And if you notice that someone's really struggling, UM, you
Speaker 1: know that symptoms are impeding daily functioning that you help
Speaker 1: guide them to UM the notion of UM outside professional interventions.
Speaker 1: As you said, the aftermath of a of a breakup
Speaker 1: can be really traumatic and cause a lot of brief
Speaker 1: and depression anxiety. UM sort of uh, an interruption of
Speaker 1: oneself concepts, and those can be really big critical things
Speaker 1: and so sometimes a friend and familiar support is enough
Speaker 1: and sometimes outside UH support is required. So I would
Speaker 1: say like acknowledging and noticing out loud and not avoiding
Speaker 1: the dis comfort of that well as always, Dr gold
Speaker 1: Shirt's so great to have you on. Thank you once
Speaker 1: again for coming and talking to us about some tough topics. UH.
Speaker 1: This really helps summarize and put everything that we've talked
Speaker 1: about before into a helpful place. DOCKR Gould Scher, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you. That'sua. Thanks for having me. Guys by. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: weird episode because you know, it feels weird for us
Speaker 1: to talk about people's breakups, but you know, this is
Speaker 1: sort of like a huge headline, and that's what we
Speaker 1: do here on the Almost As podcast. We have to
Speaker 1: talk about huge headlines and Bachelor Nation. So our hearts
Speaker 1: go out to Claren Dale. Um. Oh, it's sad, it's
Speaker 1: really sad. Um, but we hope the best for them.
Speaker 1: And until next week we have better news and we
Speaker 1: try to find Matt James a wife. I've been actually
Speaker 1: and I've been been. We'll talk to you later. Guy
Speaker 1: followed the Bennon Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on iHeart
Speaker 1: Radio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. M