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Speaker 1: Not one, not two, but three tiny boys dead. Three

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Speaker 1: month old Noah, four year old Gavin, another infant Nile,

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Speaker 1: all dead but separated in space and time. How did

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Speaker 1: that happen? I can only point the finger at one person. Mommy,

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Speaker 1: and I want justice, crime stories with Nancy Grace. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we have an emergency, our little infant. Uh. He's not

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Speaker 1: breathing at all. Okay, can you start CPR? Yes, my

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Speaker 1: wife's crying. Keep going. Who are we talking about? How

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Speaker 1: old a patient? Okay? What happened prior to this? I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I just saw home and I want to

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Speaker 1: trust my son. And he's cold, she's cold to the tad. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: is she doing CPR? Is someone doing CPR? Yes, my

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Speaker 1: wife is, but I mean he's he's having twenty What

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Speaker 1: is your name, sir? My name is Joe. Okay, I

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Speaker 1: have help on the race or that. I want to

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Speaker 1: stay on this sum with you. Is anything happening with

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Speaker 1: the CPR? No, nothing's happening. Lips are white, lips are right. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he's going. Is he crying or anything? No, Niall, baby's going.

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Speaker 1: I hope the ambulance is on its way. Yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: on their way. That's your wife's name. My wife names Burt. Okay,

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Speaker 1: she's still doing the concussions happening. Yes, he's very pale.

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Speaker 1: Is that him? That's my son, David. Okay, let's go

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Speaker 1: back in the other room now, so changing keller or

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Speaker 1: anything like that. Oh you sail wife, Let's go back.

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Speaker 1: My wife NaNs Brittani the compressions. But his arms are purple.

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Speaker 1: Mel nothing. I think you got Paul's no, no, no, Paul.

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Speaker 1: There is now no Paul. Oh that is bone chilling.

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Speaker 1: The nine one one call made by Joe Pilkington to

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Speaker 1: report his little three month old baby's son Niles is

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Speaker 1: actually turning purple. I mean it, See Grace, this is

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Speaker 1: crime Stories and believe you me. I want answers an

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Speaker 1: all star panel to break it down, put it back together.

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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor now defense attorney, Inner City, Atlanta

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Speaker 1: and threw out the US. Steve Lampley, detective author of

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Speaker 1: Outside Your Door, renounced like choanalyst out of LA, doctor

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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, medical examiner, author of homicide Investigation Field Guy,

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Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree, and Crime online dot Com investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: Levi Page Crime online where you can find this in

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Speaker 1: all other breaking crime and justice news. I typically go

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Speaker 1: to my reporter for a download first with Levi page.

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Speaker 1: But to doctor Michelle Dupre and infants arms are purple?

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Speaker 1: What does that mean, Nancy? That's the worst sign you

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Speaker 1: can possibly have. The child is becoming anoxic or another word,

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Speaker 1: he is not getting enough oxygen and the repherral parts

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Speaker 1: or the distal parts of his body are beginning to

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Speaker 1: turn purple. Lif boxes. Okay wo woa wa wa wait Dodger,

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Speaker 1: Michelle Dupre, Okay, you are a medical examiner. You are

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Speaker 1: an MD. You have performed autopsies on literally thousands of people.

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Speaker 1: You're just the kind of doctor, just the kind of

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Speaker 1: medical examiner that would shudder when they would see my

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Speaker 1: beat up pond of pulling into the parking lot, because

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Speaker 1: I would have to convince you to somehow dummy down

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Speaker 1: everything you're saying. I don't know what you just said.

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Speaker 1: It's like you're talking, well you are talking Latin. So

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Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree, break it down for me, please, because

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Speaker 1: I know if I don't understand, Daryl Cohen certainly does

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Speaker 1: not understand. Okay, So what did you just say? Sorry,

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Speaker 1: darrel just getting I couldn't help myself while I'm so good,

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Speaker 1: but you're consistent so well. I was saying anthy is

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Speaker 1: that when the child is turning blue, they're basically turning

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Speaker 1: blue because they're not getting enough oxygen. They're not breathing properly.

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Speaker 1: So the distance, what's the difference in blue and purple?

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Speaker 1: Or is there a difference? It's just a matter of degrees.

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Speaker 1: The darker the blue, the less oxygen. Now you said

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Speaker 1: something else. It seemed to me I couldn't quite make

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Speaker 1: it out in your Latin rant that it seems like

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Speaker 1: you were saying something about the part the distant parts

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Speaker 1: of your body, such as your toes and your fingers,

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Speaker 1: your arms turning turning blue or purple. Well, yes, they

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Speaker 1: can be turning blue or purple. Also because as the

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Speaker 1: body comes to blood with oxygen, it goes to the

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Speaker 1: distant parts of the body, which is your extremities or

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Speaker 1: your fingers and your toes, so they will also start

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Speaker 1: to be turning purple. What turns purple first? What turns

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Speaker 1: purple first? I know that these sound like kindergarten questions

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Speaker 1: to you, but when someone is dying from as you said,

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Speaker 1: they're becoming a NOx set. They're running out of oxygen

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Speaker 1: in their body. For instance, when you go to the

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Speaker 1: doctor and the first thing they do is they put

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Speaker 1: that little clip on your finger and it says it

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Speaker 1: gives a percentage. I guess about how much auction you're

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Speaker 1: taking in you're not getting any auction. What part of

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Speaker 1: your body turns blue or purple first? Doctor Dupree, Well,

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Speaker 1: in this case about central cyanoses or central turning blue,

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Speaker 1: which means that the reason we're turning blue is a

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Speaker 1: central issue our lungs. We're not getting enough oxygen in

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Speaker 1: our lungs. Our fingers and toes begin to turn purple

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Speaker 1: if it is something like an outside force like being

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Speaker 1: cold or frostbite. So in this case, the child was

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Speaker 1: not getting enough oxygen internally to the lawn. So typically

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Speaker 1: when you're not getting enough oction and you're not having frostbite, correct,

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Speaker 1: So you do your lips turn blue? Does your face

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Speaker 1: turn blue first? What turns blue first? Your face? Or

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Speaker 1: it's just going to be turning blue first. So by

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Speaker 1: the time your arms are purple, you've gone a long

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Speaker 1: time without oxygen. Yes, and again your arms are going

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Speaker 1: to be turning purple when you have frostbite or something

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Speaker 1: of an external force. But this child had not been outside.

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Speaker 1: It's just a three month old baby boy. So if

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Speaker 1: he hadn't been outside and exposed to the elements, why

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Speaker 1: would his arms be purple? Nancy. If if they're purple,

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Speaker 1: that may not be from cyanosis. That may be from

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Speaker 1: something that we call lever mortifs, which is basically settling

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Speaker 1: of the blood because there is no blood being pumped.

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Speaker 1: The child may be Are you saying liver mortis? Always

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Speaker 1: thought it was live or mortis, So it's liver mortis,

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Speaker 1: liv or lever, depending on how you pronounce it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Now what I know about that is when I've found

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Speaker 1: dead bodies or come upon dead bodies on crime scenes

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Speaker 1: and the body had been there for a period of time,

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Speaker 1: your blood is no longer pumping. Your heart's not working,

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Speaker 1: so your blood's not pumping through your body, and it

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Speaker 1: all starts to settle. It's like pouring water in a glass.

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Speaker 1: It goes to the bottom of the glass first and

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Speaker 1: fills up. Your blood sinks to the lowest point your body.

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Speaker 1: Happens if you're lying on your back, it goes down

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Speaker 1: to your rear end and the back of your legs

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Speaker 1: and back and arms if you're standing up, which doesn't

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Speaker 1: make sense, but if you were and you had been killed,

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Speaker 1: it would go down to your feet and your knees

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Speaker 1: and your legs. If your face down, the blood would

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Speaker 1: go to your face and your stomach and your chest

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Speaker 1: in the front of your legs. That's what I believe

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Speaker 1: to be live or mortis. Rigor mortis is when your

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Speaker 1: limbs start to actually harden up, lock up? Do I

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Speaker 1: have that right, doctor dupre Yes, Nancy, that's exactly correct. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Now see that. That's why medical examiners hide when they

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Speaker 1: see my car pull up, because there's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: lot of kindergarten questions that I have. So I guess

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to in a very circuitous way. Doctor Dupree

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Speaker 1: ask is if this child's arm, this baby's arms are

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Speaker 1: already purple? Is he dead? Is the baby dead? Yancy? Yes,

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Speaker 1: In most likely cases, the child has already deceased and

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Speaker 1: has been for a watch. Take a listen to part

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Speaker 1: of the unedited nine one one call from Dad Joe Pilkington.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything happening with the CPR? No, nothing's happening.

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Speaker 1: Is she doing the CPR correct later? Yes, she's still

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Speaker 1: doing it. Lift for white, lift your right, yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: Well compressions okay, you're bread and birds. Make sure there's

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Speaker 1: the airways clear to its head back, and you put

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Speaker 1: them in the palm of your hands, like on your forearm,

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Speaker 1: and push down in the middle of his chest with

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Speaker 1: two fingers. Okay, keeps going. Is he crying or anything? No,

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Speaker 1: Nile one baby, keep going, not too much. Is anything happening?

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Speaker 1: You want any help? I hope anybody want to twig

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Speaker 1: time stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, she's still doing the

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Speaker 1: compression doesn't happen? Yes, he's very pale. Hi Is that him? Definitely?

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Speaker 1: Son Davin? So okay, let's go back in the other

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Speaker 1: room now, so well, keep the compressions going. Is he

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Speaker 1: changing calor or anything like that? What is he changing

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Speaker 1: calor or anything like that? Oh? You sail? What? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Still do the compressions. Okay. Yeah, there's a whole another

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Speaker 1: way of performing CPR on an infant then you would

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Speaker 1: on an adult. I remember having to take that class

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Speaker 1: before they allowed us to bring the twins home from

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Speaker 1: the nick You I mean is he Grace? This is

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Speaker 1: crime Stories, what happened to this little three month old

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Speaker 1: baby Niles? Straight out to Crime online dot Com investigative

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Speaker 1: reporter Levi Page. So We've been through a doctor, Michelle Dupree,

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Speaker 1: and I'm trying to still figure out right now exactly

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Speaker 1: what is the cod cause of death on this baby, Levi?

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Speaker 1: What do we know? The corner ruled that the death

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Speaker 1: was undetermined. That's very difficult for me to believe that

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Speaker 1: the cause of death with a baby turning blue is undetermined?

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Speaker 1: What about the other sons? How many children did this

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Speaker 1: family have? Levi? So there's three month old Nile, there's

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Speaker 1: four year old Gavin, and then there's three year old Noah,

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Speaker 1: and then a little girl. So there's three month old Noah.

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Speaker 1: But it's my understanding Noah was found dead about a

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Speaker 1: year after Niles, and then four year old son Gavin

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Speaker 1: and also found dead um just a few months before Noah.

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Speaker 1: So there was Niel baby Niel in Ia l L

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Speaker 1: died as you said, that was your life twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 1: Then there was four year old son Gavin in April

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Speaker 1: of two thousand and fifteen, not quite a year later.

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Speaker 1: And then August two thousand and fifteen, a few months

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Speaker 1: after Gavin died, Noah was found dead. Hum, I'm I

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Speaker 1: find it very difficult to believe that all of these

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Speaker 1: children died of natural causes. Maybe one of them. Take

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Speaker 1: listen to our friend at Fox forty five ABC twenty

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Speaker 1: two reporter Kelly may Well, Brittany Pilkington didn't say anything

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Speaker 1: or show any emotion here in Both Fountain and while

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Speaker 1: her father wasn't tears. But tonight we've learned from her

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Speaker 1: former babysitter that Britney Pilkington didn't even cry at the

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Speaker 1: funerals for her first two sons. Three toys for three

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Speaker 1: little boys at the front door of the Bell Fountain

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Speaker 1: apartment where police say all three were suffocated to death. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah right, you guys saying today it was rough on

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Speaker 1: me today. Britney's father, ed Cummins, shaking up his head

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Speaker 1: in his hands, but on Pilkington's face, no emotion. She

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Speaker 1: was always kind of quiet and like weared around me.

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Speaker 1: But I just couldn't imagine anyone killing their kids with

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Speaker 1: her mom's permission. We talked to this teen who didn't

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Speaker 1: want to show her face, but says she regularly babysat

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Speaker 1: Pilkington's kids. At four year old Gavin's funeral in April,

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Speaker 1: as soon as we walked in, mom and I looked

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Speaker 1: at her and she didn't seem emotional at all. Throughout

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Speaker 1: the service, me and my mom were both crying, and

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Speaker 1: she I never saw a tear in her eyes. She

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Speaker 1: never seemed like it faced her whatsoever. To Daryl Cohen,

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Speaker 1: defense attorney joining me out of City of Atlanta, Daryl Cohen,

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Speaker 1: I would absolutely pay attention to a mother showing no

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Speaker 1: emotion at her child's her baby's funeral. But I've been

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Speaker 1: called on it in court many, many times, claiming that

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Speaker 1: that shows nothing. That quote there is no playbook for

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Speaker 1: mourning or grieving. I guess you're going to jump on

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Speaker 1: that bandwagon. Well, Nancy, maybe I could understand it for one,

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Speaker 1: because she's absolutely in shock. But too no, I don't

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Speaker 1: buy it. I don't at least it. I don't rent it.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't fly. It just doesn't fly. And you're right,

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Speaker 1: there is no playbook on emotion. There's no playbook on

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Speaker 1: sadness and on grief, but there is a playbook on life.

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Speaker 1: And this woman is beyond belief the fact that she's

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Speaker 1: showing no emotion may mean a number of things. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, Well, it could mean that she is glad

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Speaker 1: that the babies are gone. This mom had a very

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Speaker 1: complex psychological situation and that she was abused as a child.

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Speaker 1: She had lead poisoning, so she had some mental defects.

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Speaker 1: She does not appear to be sad about the death

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Speaker 1: of the children. And you know, you can have a

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Speaker 1: mental disorder, you can have psychiatric illness and be homicidal

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Speaker 1: all at the same time. One thing does not exclude

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Speaker 1: the other. And I think that what happens with these mothers,

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Speaker 1: and I saw this with Andrea Yates. They don't cry

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Speaker 1: because when the children are gone, they actually feel relieved.

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Speaker 1: They are overwhelmed by the duties of mothering. They usually

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Speaker 1: did not want the children in the first place. And

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Speaker 1: alongside the homicidal instinct is the wish in a way

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Speaker 1: to save their own skin. And they are not maternally bonded. Nancy.

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Speaker 1: I have women in my practice like that. They're not killers,

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Speaker 1: but they're not attached to their own children, and it

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Speaker 1: is a syndrome. So I would say, not only is

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Speaker 1: she relief that they're gone, but she is not bonded

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Speaker 1: with those children. But that is why she's not crying. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I've got so many questions colliding in my head right now,

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Speaker 1: but let me just put out the first one. What

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Speaker 1: do you mean not maternally bonded mothers do not bond

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Speaker 1: Mothers who are not bonded with their children. Usually it's

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Speaker 1: for a few different reasons. Often they were raised by

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Speaker 1: mothers who were not bonded with them, or they have

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Speaker 1: postpartum depression or postpartum psychosis, or they have post traumatic stress,

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Speaker 1: which is causes isolation, numbing, and withdrawal. But it's a

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Speaker 1: very unique situation. I have three women in my practice

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Speaker 1: right now, and they talk about their children like their

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Speaker 1: children are animals. One talks about the fact that her

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Speaker 1: twelve year old is fat, and she says, I just

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Speaker 1: wish I could unzip the fat. She's like stuck in

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Speaker 1: a fat suit. She's so probably she's fat. I can't

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Speaker 1: even watch her eat because she just slavers and she

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Speaker 1: choose with her mouth open. I can't and her. And

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Speaker 1: this is how a mother, a very sophisticated mother who's

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Speaker 1: worth fifty million dollars, talks about her own twelve year

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Speaker 1: old older. That's what I mean by not being maternally bonded.

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Speaker 1: That just hurts my heart. That just hurts my heart

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Speaker 1: to think of a mom talking about their child like that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, of course you want them to learn table manners,

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Speaker 1: but that's just downright mean. You know another question I

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Speaker 1: have to doctor Michelle dupre joining me, medical examiner, author

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Speaker 1: of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Now this is anecdotal, doctor Debris,

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Speaker 1: But often I see when I see children that are

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Speaker 1: beaten dead in a home, I blame the dad. When

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Speaker 1: I see children smothered dead, I blame the mom. Now

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Speaker 1: that's anecdotal based on the thousands of cases I have prosecuted,

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Speaker 1: investigated I've heard. I mean, I think it was Bethany

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Speaker 1: that was just talking about Andrew Yate. She smothered all

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Speaker 1: of her children. I've seen a few moms beat children dad,

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Speaker 1: like Diana Lacy, she beat her children dead with a rock.

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Speaker 1: But what do you see, doctor dupree that in the mode,

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Speaker 1: the mode, the manner of death. Nancy, You're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: The vast majority of the time a mother or female

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Speaker 1: caregiver will typically smother the child or do something that

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Speaker 1: is not as violent as he. In the child we

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Speaker 1: often hind off the male personif prime stories with Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: the compression, his arms, her purple mel nothing got Paul. Now, no,

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Speaker 1: no Paul, There is no power, No Paul. Now we've

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Speaker 1: got no pauls Now, okay, we still need to keep

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Speaker 1: the compressions. Don't stop doing the compressions. Baby Niles, the

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Speaker 1: dad desperately trying to save his son. But is it

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Speaker 1: all a ruse? Then we find out that three babies

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Speaker 1: have died in the same home. Pilkington's three months old

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Speaker 1: said Noah found dead August twenty fifteen, four year old

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Speaker 1: son Gavin April two thousand fifteen, and Niles dead July

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Speaker 1: two thousand fourteen. So Levi Page joining me Crime online

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Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter. All three dead in the home,

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Speaker 1: all three dead of suffocation. Is that right? You are correct? Nancy.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at Fox forty five,

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Speaker 1: ABC twenty two reporter from Kelly may Ohfully she can

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Speaker 1: get the pil Pilkington's mom told us her daughter now

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Speaker 1: says she didn't kill the boys, that she was course

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Speaker 1: to confess to the Logan County prosecutor Tuesday, we asked

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Speaker 1: for comments. Take on that. I mean, it runs through

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Speaker 1: my mind, but I mean, if you didn't know why,

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Speaker 1: I admit it. It's just really made me realize that

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Speaker 1: you can't. I mean, you can't really trust anyone, and

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Speaker 1: I guess everyone's different than when they come off to be.

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Speaker 1: Brittany Pilkington did not enter a plea today. The case

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Speaker 1: goes to a grand jury next week. Meantime, her husband

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Speaker 1: Joe still hasn't been heard from since Britney's arrest, so

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Speaker 1: his family is pleading to hear from them. They need

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Speaker 1: to in order to make funeral arrangements for a little Noah.

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Speaker 1: Oh my stars. Can you imagine the pain of making

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Speaker 1: a funeral arrangement for a tiny child? So leave by page.

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Speaker 1: Let me understand where all three boys killed in the

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Speaker 1: home and all three were suffocated. You are correct, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: But how did the first two manage to go by

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Speaker 1: being suffocated or even the first one without any criminal

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Speaker 1: charges because the corner rolled their death undetermined unexplained. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't until four year old Gavin died in April six

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Speaker 1: of twenty fifteen that investigator said, we have two dead children.

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Speaker 1: Three year old nyal who died in twenty fourteen, and

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Speaker 1: then Gavin, a four year old, died in two fifteen.

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Speaker 1: So they opened up a criminal investigation. CPS opened up

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Speaker 1: a Child Protective Services investigation. That's your favorite government agency, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: And then a family court judge after CPS had removed

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Speaker 1: a three month old child that's alive, Noah, a family

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Speaker 1: court judge said, the deaths are ruled undetermined. We're going

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Speaker 1: to return him back to his mother. And then he died.

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Speaker 1: And this is after two dead your eyes okay, And

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Speaker 1: now the mom does say, Brittany Pilkington does say that

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Speaker 1: she rolled over on one in her sleep and smothered

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Speaker 1: him that way. Now what were you about to say?

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I cut you off? Ley like ahead. So

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Speaker 1: a family court judge, his name is Judge Dan Bradca

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Speaker 1: he ordered three month old Noah to return to the

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Speaker 1: home and then a week later he died. A week

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Speaker 1: after being returned to his mother ordered baby Noah back

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Speaker 1: to the home, and now he's dead. You know, I

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Speaker 1: don't get it. Steve Lampley, detective author of Outside Your Door,

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Speaker 1: Steve Lampley, what is it with de facts and Judge

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Speaker 1: Dan Bradca you have two dead babies, and you leave

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Speaker 1: a dead baby boys, and you leave another baby boy

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Speaker 1: in the home that's then killed. Nancy. I agree. I'm

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Speaker 1: from an investigation standpoint. When you have this first child

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Speaker 1: that was three months old that was dead, and you

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Speaker 1: have a report that says undetermined, that's a red flag

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Speaker 1: right off. This this is the first this is the

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Speaker 1: first child, Nancy, there's a flag. Why. I want to

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Speaker 1: know why why did you say this death is undetermined?

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Speaker 1: And then to have a second one like maybe what

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Speaker 1: a year later? And then to have a judge give

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Speaker 1: back a child that had been taken to me, it

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Speaker 1: just to I'm speechless. Fancy that defies all logic. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to this. We're in the Red bud Hill

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Speaker 1: apartment complex here in Bell Fountain. This latest child, a

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Speaker 1: three month old boy found unresponsive here in this apartment,

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Speaker 1: number two fifteen, Mom calling nine one one. Now. We've

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Speaker 1: talked to neighbors around the apartment complex here tonight and

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Speaker 1: all had things to say, but most of them still

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Speaker 1: in complete shock. Very must the stuff right now. I

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Speaker 1: could never imagine doing something that like that. The news

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Speaker 1: tonight reaching horrified neighbors. Mom twenty three year old Britney

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Speaker 1: Pilkington charged with murder her three month old boy, Noah,

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Speaker 1: pronounced dead, taken from their apartment after an early morning

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Speaker 1: nine one one call. Noah is Brittany Pilkington's third child

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Speaker 1: to be found unresponsive, not breathing, later dead in July

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Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, her three month old Nile. April of this year,

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Speaker 1: her four year old Gavitt. The Fountain police started investigating,

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Speaker 1: but didn't find enough to pin the deaths on Mom

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Speaker 1: or her husband, forty three year old Joe Pilkington. They

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Speaker 1: just got this baby back like a few days ago. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then this happens after Noah's death. Today police grilled

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Speaker 1: Brittany and say she confessed to killing all three of

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Speaker 1: her children. I'm satisfied that today we have a reason

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Speaker 1: behind it. We have the person that's responsible behind it,

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Speaker 1: behind bars where she belongs. Neighbors say it's too little,

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Speaker 1: too late. Something should have been done a long time

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Speaker 1: ago when the first one died. You are so right,

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Speaker 1: you're hearing not only ABC twenty two is Kelly May,

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Speaker 1: but neighbor Courtney Weatherspoon, Leanne McKee, and she Brandon Stanley.

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Speaker 1: Why were the babies left there? But wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: you haven't heard at all. She actually gives a reason,

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Speaker 1: a motive for murder LEVI page What is mom Brittany

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Speaker 1: Pilkington's motive for murdering her three baby boys? So she

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Speaker 1: claims that Joe Pilkington showed his son's more attention than

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Speaker 1: his four year old daughter Hayley. So she claims the

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Speaker 1: mom Britney Pilkington, that she murdered three little boys out

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Speaker 1: of jealousy. Doctor Bethany Marshall's psycho Anne was joining us

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Speaker 1: from Beverly hild Have you ever heard anything like it? Well,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like this could be an excuse, right the

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Speaker 1: father loved the little boys more than the other daughter,

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Speaker 1: but also because she had some mental defects from the

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Speaker 1: lead poisoning. It also could be that she was neglecting

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Speaker 1: the children. You know, you don't just kill a child,

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Speaker 1: but you've been treating them well all along. Until you've

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Speaker 1: killed a child, usually there's a long history of neglect

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Speaker 1: and abuse leading up to this. So my thought was

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Speaker 1: that maybe she was starving the children, not nurturing them,

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Speaker 1: not feeding them, and the dad was stepping in to

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Speaker 1: at least try to provide some nourishment and sustenance. And

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Speaker 1: then she picked up on that theme as a weak

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Speaker 1: excuse to try to explain to the investigators why she

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Speaker 1: killed her children. But obviously she killed them because she

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Speaker 1: wanted them dead. There's no other reason. She didn't want

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Speaker 1: them anymore. You know, it seems as if they're objects,

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Speaker 1: so she can just abandon when she does not want

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Speaker 1: them anymore. Take a listen to our friends at NBC

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Speaker 1: four WCMH Columbus reporter Marcus Thorpe. No, I know that

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Speaker 1: she does have to pay for what she did. No

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Speaker 1: one's going to take this lately. You know, she took

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Speaker 1: three little innocent lives, and her reaction and each child's death.

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Speaker 1: Prosecutors say the mother was flat and non emotional, and

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Speaker 1: one would have again expected a parent to have some

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Speaker 1: predictable behavior. Grief would have been the beginning. I would

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Speaker 1: think a denial perhaps, but this person did not really

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Speaker 1: show any of that. Brittany told investigators or interrogation that

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Speaker 1: she felt her best friend was actually her three and

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Speaker 1: a half year old daughter, somebody who was now in

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Speaker 1: custody on the father's side of the family were told

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Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace. Brittany Pilkington entered not guilty

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Speaker 1: please to all three charges of aggravated murder, but bond

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Speaker 1: was continued at one million dollars. At the same time

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Speaker 1: Pilkington was in court this afternoon, funeral services were being

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Speaker 1: held for Noah, the newborn son she has confessed to killing.

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Speaker 1: Pilkington showed no emotion as the judge read through the

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Speaker 1: three count murder indictment. Prosecutors say Pilkington has confessed to

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Speaker 1: killing not only Noah, but her two other sons. No

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Speaker 1: mother in the whole world kill her, kills her three kids,

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Speaker 1: nobody and so to me, that's you're not your right

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Speaker 1: primal mind, Jeff Skaggs said Joe Pilkington, Brittany's husband, who

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Speaker 1: previously was her mother's boyfriend, attended today's funeral. Prosecutors have

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Speaker 1: described Joe Pilkington as controlling and say he kept Brittany

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Speaker 1: isolated from her family. They say Brittany used the boy's

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00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: blankets to suffocate them because she wanted her husband to

424
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: pay more attention to their daughter. Oh, Dear Lord in Heaven.

425
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: Three babies dead, just a few months old, each of them,

426
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: one being four two leavipage Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter.

427
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: What was the sentence on the mob, Brittany Pilkington, She

428
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: got thirty seven years in prison. Whoa thirty seven years?

429
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: That's only about thirteen years for each dead child, you know.

430
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: To Daryl Cohen, I noticed this, and again this is

431
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: anecdotal that when there was a baby homicide victim in court,

432
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: very often the pep would get a lighter sentence, like

433
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: the baby's life meant less than an adult life. In

434
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: my mind, it matters even more because the baby absolutely

435
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: cannot defend itself in any way. I find that happening

436
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: so often it will be a voluntary manslaughter or an

437
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: involuntary manslaughter when it's an infant murder victim Darryl Nancy.

438
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: It makes those sense, other than the fact that sometimes

439
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: there is a plea to a lesser charge of voluntary

440
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: manslaughter because the prosecutors, the DA's, the state attorneys, whoever

441
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: it may be, may feel they don't have enough evidence

442
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: to convict and they're not as sure of the case

443
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: as they otherwise would be. Because when you're talking suffocation,

444
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: you can turn and say, well, the baby was in

445
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: the crib, the baby suffocated on his or her own.

446
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of reasons. I frankly we

447
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: need to speak up for those poor innocent victims, but

448
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: there's always a reason why. Sometimes they don't get the

449
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: defendant doesn't get the type of criminal record that they need,

450
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: such as the death penalty. What about what Bethany Marshall

451
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: keeps talking about that the mom as a child had

452
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: some sort of lead poisoning ailment, and not only that

453
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: that she had also other emotional issues. What are you

454
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: talking about specifically, doctor Bethany Marshall, Well, according to some

455
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: of the reports, she was raised in a household where

456
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: she was repeatedly sexually abused, and also her current husband,

457
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: Joe Pinkerton, was her mother's boyfriend and he had sex

458
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: with her when she was underage, and also that there

459
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: was lead poisoning in the household. So it tells me

460
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: that I'm not sure what the mental defect is other

461
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: than the defense and the prosecution both kept talking about

462
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: the fact that she had problems with cognition, with the

463
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: way she thought, with the way she processed, So a

464
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: little like Andrea Yates, it seems like it's a perfect

465
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: storm of events. Now, remember with Andrea Yates, Andrea was

466
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: schizophrenic and her husband, Rusty Yates, had her living in

467
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: a school bus as a part of some weird, strange

468
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: religious group. And I think in this case with Joe Pinkerton,

469
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: who is so controlling, he has a wife who has

470
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: some extreme deficits, but he keeps having children with her.

471
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying that it's Rusty or Joe's fault,

472
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: but I think that one contributing factor is failing to

473
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: estimate the capacities of the mother. In both cases, mothers

474
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: extremely overwhelmed and not really having wanted the children in

475
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: the first place, played a major role in the infant aside,

476
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: we know she suffered lead poisoning as a child. What

477
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: affect would that have had on her? Doctor Bethany say

478
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: that probably what happened is that she had what we

479
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: called cognitive slowing, meaning that she had poor judgment, poor reasoning,

480
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: cognitive deficits. Cognition is just a fancy word for a

481
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: thought process, and when you have this kind of poisoning

482
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: early in life, it causes what are called pervasive learning disorders.

483
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: A pervasive learning disorder means that the brain is affected

484
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: on every level, so it could produce emotional instability, It

485
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: could produce poor cause and effect thinking. It could affect

486
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: the prefrontal cortex, meaning that the person cannot anticipate dangerous situations.

487
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: They cannot wrap meanings around events, so it hurts the

488
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: person's ability to process on all level and fearly kurttails

489
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: their ability to parent. I still don't believe that that

490
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: is would rise to insanity under the law under the

491
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: old McNaughton rule brought over to the US from Great

492
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: Britain as our common law. If you know right from

493
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: wrong at the time of the incident, then you are

494
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: not insane. She certainly need enough to lie and cover

495
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: up her crimes. What about the fact that we have

496
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: been told her IQ is ninety four? What does that mean?

497
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, Well, I think that low IQ has nothing

498
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: to do with whether or not she killed the children.

499
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: I'm actually surprised that she was able to get away

500
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: with it as long as she did. Just because you

501
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: have a IQ or you're schizophrenic does not mean that

502
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: you're not awful homicidal. Both Andrea and Brittany waited till

503
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: the husbands were out of the home to kill the children.

504
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: When you wait till your husband goes to work, When

505
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: you wait so that there's not another adult in the

506
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: house that can serve a supervisorial function, you know you're

507
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: doing something wrong. You know it now. The low IQ

508
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: could have actually created a situation where she didn't anticipate

509
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: that she would get into trouble for this. But certainly

510
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: it does not absolve her of being homicidal. Well, she's

511
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: certainly outsmarted, defects you know and police and made time

512
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: to murder three children to leave my page Crime online

513
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, What can you tell me about

514
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: the father of the children? Joseph Pilkington. So he was

515
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: Britney's stepdad. He was in a relationship with her mother

516
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,959
Speaker 1: and then after he broke up with her, he actually

517
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: started dating. That's a bad word for it, because she

518
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: was underage me and he got her pregnant when she

519
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: was seventeen years old. So, after the death of these children, Nancy,

520
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: he was arrested and charged with sex battery of a minor.

521
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: He reached a poldo with prosecutors who pled guilty to

522
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: a misdemeanor of sexual imposition of a minor and he

523
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: was sentenced to twenty one days in jail and got

524
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: a two hundred and fifty dollars twenty one days in

525
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 1: jail and a two hundred and fifty dollars fine. Not

526
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: only was the girl at best seventeen I'm talking about

527
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: Brittany Pilkington when he was having sex with her that

528
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 1: would be statutory rape if she was under age in

529
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 1: the jurisdiction, But not only that, he continued on until

530
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: she had all of these children by him. I'm confused.

531
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: He was arrested for sex battery with a minor, which

532
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: is a felony, but he only got twenty one days

533
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: in jail. Yes, that's after he put it down to

534
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: sexual imposition of a minor, which is a his demeanor

535
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 1: in the state of Ohio. To you, Daryl Cohen, you're

536
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: the defense attorney. Why did they do that because she

537
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: married him? Did they somehow think that put a different

538
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:14,439
Speaker 1: facade on what really is a felony in some warped way.

539
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: Did the prosecutor think that made it all okay? I

540
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: think the prosecutor may have felt it didn't make it okay,

541
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: but it made it very difficult to prosecutor case again.

542
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: You and I both know you have to get into

543
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: the minds of everybody, including the possible jury, and the

544
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: prosecutor may have tried to get into her mind saying, well,

545
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: this is a terrible witness and we're not sure what

546
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: she's going to say, regardless of what the evidence will be.

547
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 1: So let's just take a plea and make it okay,

548
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: and she's going to go to prison for the rest

549
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: of her life or at least thirty seven years, and

550
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: we'll figure that out from there. Sometimes it seems like,

551
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 1: no matter how much we fight it, that in some cases,

552
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,879
Speaker 1: there is no justice. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off

553
00:35:58,400 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,