1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, A production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello, and Happy Friday. 3 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 2: I'm Tracy V. 4 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 2: This week, we finished off our three part episode on 6 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 2: Charles Sumner, the previous two parts happening last week, and 7 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 2: we just saved most of our behind the scenes on 8 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 2: Charles Sumner for today rather than trying to have two 9 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 2: different Charles Sumner behind the scenes is and keeping track 10 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 2: of what was said. 11 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, we probably would have said a lot of repetitive 12 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: stuff if we tried to do it across. 13 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it would have been a little weird. So what 14 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,599 Speaker 2: I will say about Morocco. One of the things that happened, well, 15 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: I was working on this before we left for Morocco. 16 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 2: I when we left for Morocco had a word count 17 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 2: in my notes document that was essentially a two part 18 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 2: episode already, so I was like, I'm going to have 19 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 2: to work on this. And yet on my Kindle I 20 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 2: downloaded two different books about Charles Sumner to read on 21 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 2: the Morocco trip. One of them I did not read 22 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: at all. It went back to the library unopened. The 23 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 2: other was Zachertimus's book Charles Sumner Conscious of a Nation Again. 24 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 2: I already had a two part episodes worth of writing 25 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 2: when I read this book, and I did not start 26 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: reading it until the last day of the Morocco trip, 27 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 2: and I was reading it on my phone and just 28 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: like highlighting sentences that were like little details that I 29 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 2: didn't know already to potentially add into the episode. 30 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: Later. 31 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: As I was working on the episode, though, there was 32 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 2: a moment where I was like, this is going to 33 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 2: be four parts, and we've only we've never had like 34 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,919 Speaker 2: a four part episode on one person, right, we. 35 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: Had sort of a four partner. 36 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, way, we had a sort of four interconnected episodes 37 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 2: that were all about China or under Chairman Mao, Right, 38 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 2: And those had been to some extent researched and written 39 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 2: in tandem, but to some extent research and written separately. 40 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,839 Speaker 2: And it was just like I kept working on one 41 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: thing and being like, Oh, there's this other thing that's 42 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 2: related to this that also needs more time. With Charles Sumner, 43 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: it was just a lot of it was just he 44 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 2: did so much, and he was involved in so much, 45 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 2: and he wrote so much. And part of the reason 46 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 2: it was not it did not turn into a four 47 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 2: part episode instead of three. Is that I felt like 48 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: I did not have the fullest understanding of everything about 49 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 2: Grant wanting to annex what is now the Dominican Republic, 50 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 2: and that would have been one of the things that 51 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,679 Speaker 2: could have pushed it into a four part episode, and 52 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 2: I was I was out of time. I needed to 53 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 2: finish writing the episode and send it to you so 54 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 2: that we could record it, so that there will be 55 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:06,679 Speaker 2: a podcast coming out on the Monday after we record this. 56 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 2: Otherwise we would have just not had one. But that's 57 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 2: that's just so much that he was involved with, and 58 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 2: so much of it was ahead of his time. So 59 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: many of the things he was arguing were things that 60 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 2: would be re argued again during the civil rights movement. 61 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 2: Some of it is stuff that is being re argued 62 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 2: again now. And he was definitely not a perfect person. 63 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 2: If he, you know, in my ideal world, he would 64 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 2: have also spoken out on women's rights and the rights 65 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 2: of indigenous people, and the right the rights of other, 66 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 2: you know, non white people, in addition to the previously 67 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 2: enslaved and other people of African descent. At the same time, 68 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 2: though Charles Sumner was right, he was right about so 69 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 2: much stuff, and so much of the criticism he got 70 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: at the time was kind of like, Wow, that guy, 71 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: he just wants to much when what he wanted was 72 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: the abolition of slavery and equal rights for black people. 73 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 2: Something that was in the outline at one point that 74 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 2: I wound up taking out because of the whole I'm 75 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 2: trying to keep this to three parts thing was how 76 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 2: in the early twentieth century, historians writing about the Civil 77 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 2: War and writing about him got really dismissive of him. 78 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 2: They this was, you know, a period of history and 79 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 2: historiography that was really informed by the whole Lost Cause 80 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 2: mythology of the Civil War, which we have covered as 81 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 2: a whole episode on the show before. And so people 82 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 2: talked about Charles Sumner like, wow, that guy really forced 83 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 2: the United States toward a Civil war by being so 84 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 2: uncompromising about slavery. If he had just moved to the 85 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 2: middle and tried to make nice with the Southern people, 86 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 2: maybe things would have gone differently. And I'm like, no, 87 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,559 Speaker 2: how about we don't do that. How about Charles thunder 88 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 2: was correct? 89 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean particularly, here's my thing. I had two 90 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: things that really jumped out to me in this series. 91 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: One is very silly but the one that is germane 92 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: to this. That letter that Brooks wrote is the chilling 93 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: wording of a psychopath in my book, right, being so 94 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: proud that he caned this person almost to death. Yeah, 95 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: and that's the person we're supposed to be like cool 96 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: with and like yeah, work with them hard pass. I 97 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: didn't know. I don't know. Yeah, all of that rhetoric 98 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 1: around that and the weird news articles praising it are 99 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: just like they make me physically ill. It goes back 100 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: to the thing we talked about in the behind the 101 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: scenes when we were talking about ballooning, and I said 102 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: humans are always just a breath away from violence, right, 103 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: and that it's so upsetting to me. Yeah, after the fact, 104 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: nobody's like, ooh, that kind of went too far. I 105 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: mean some people were, obviously, but the supporters of Brooks 106 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: were all like, right on, you really almost killed him. 107 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: That was great, Like what is wrong with your brain 108 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: and heart at that point? Like, I don't understand. It's 109 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: very upsetting to me. Yeah. Yeah. 110 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 2: This is one of the reasons why there have been 111 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 2: multiple times over the last several years that I have 112 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 2: been like, wow, wish that old episode on the caning 113 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 2: of Charles Sumner was more than twelve minutes long, because 114 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 2: like it feels really resonant with things that are happening 115 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 2: right now, Like when Paul Pelosi got attacked with a 116 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 2: hammer and there were people celebrating it and making fun 117 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 2: of him, Like that kind of reminds me of how 118 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 2: people talked about Charles Sumner having been beaten almost to 119 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: death on the Senate floor. Various examples of like people 120 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 2: just spouting absolutely abhorrent rhetoric, like absolutely abhorrent pro slavery rhetoric, 121 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 2: and other people acting like that is normal, right, like 122 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 2: just sort of minimizing it and being like, oh, yeah, 123 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: Like the Southerners, they're really attached to slavery. We've said 124 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: in episodes before, including in this one, that like the 125 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 2: northern economy was deeply interconnected with that. It was not 126 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 2: like at this point leading up to the Civil War, 127 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 2: the South was where slavery was actively happening, but like 128 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 2: the North was complicit in it in a lot of ways, 129 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 2: if not actively involved in some ways. But like a 130 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 2: lot of the way that people talked about the institution 131 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: and talked about the people who were enslave was just horrifying. Yeah, 132 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: then talked about by people who were sort of seen 133 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: as moderate at the time as like, yeah, but we 134 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 2: really have to make sure that those people have equal 135 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 2: power to the Free States in Congress, right, we can't 136 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 2: not have equal power between them. So that is how 137 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 2: we wound up with a three part episode with that, 138 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 2: because that's twelve minute one just like could not really 139 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 2: be brought out easily as a Saturday classic when I 140 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: was like, man, this feels like an echo of Charles 141 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 2: Sumner being beaten almost to death. 142 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 143 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's been more writing recently, of course about his 144 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: relationships with Longfellow and how and one theme that kind 145 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 2: of came up that I did not put in the 146 00:08:55,640 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: episode because I just don't know if I agree with it. 147 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 2: And if I had personally read all of his surviving 148 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 2: personal documentation, I might feel differently, But I like, I 149 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 2: don't have access to all of that, and it's not 150 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,119 Speaker 2: reasonable for me to read in a person's entire lifetime 151 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 2: of like personal letters and correspondents and stuff to write 152 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 2: a history podcast Like That's just not how it works. 153 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: But there are people who characterized him as confused about 154 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 2: his own feelings for other men. It is absolutely true 155 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 2: that like the identity of gay or queer as it 156 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 2: exists today was not a thing in the mid nineteenth century, right. 157 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 2: There were people who were living together as couples. There 158 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 2: were people who, like we have talked about many people 159 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 2: on the show who were examples. There have always been 160 00:09:55,559 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 2: people who's like the definition that we read who's to 161 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 2: sex or gender or sexuality like doesn't coincide with what 162 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 2: is expected by society. That has always been the case. 163 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 1: But this like. 164 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 2: Identity and this sense that a person's sexual orientation expresses 165 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 2: something intrinsic about themselves, like that was not really part 166 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 2: of the public consciousness when he was living. All that 167 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 2: is true, and so there's some interpretation that's like people 168 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 2: who sort of conclude, like I think he was a 169 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 2: gay man who was confused because he did not have 170 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 2: the language to understand his own feelings. And part of 171 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 2: me sees that argument, and part of me also is, like, 172 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 2: this man was extraordinarily well read. He knew six different 173 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 2: languages proficiently to fluently. He read extensively through like Latin 174 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 2: and Greek literature and literature and other languages, and so 175 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 2: it is hard for me to believe that a person 176 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 2: who has that in enormous breadth of historical and literary 177 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 2: knowledge to have no way to sort of look at 178 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 2: their own feelings and say, I have feelings for this person. 179 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 2: Like there's just so much, so much that he could 180 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,599 Speaker 2: have been exposed to in the worlds of history and 181 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 2: literature that could have given him a little bit of language, 182 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 2: and so there's just this sort of Oh, I think 183 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 2: he was just confused, and I'm like, maybe, but maybe 184 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 2: also there have always been people who were living outside 185 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 2: of these binaries and structures, right, there were other examples 186 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 2: from literature and history who he could have also had 187 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 2: He wasn't in a vacuum. 188 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: Does this make sense? It does well. Moreover to me, 189 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 1: it doesn't. Even your case doesn't even need to be made, 190 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: because even the examples that we shared in the course 191 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: of this, this is a man who was very in 192 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: touch with his feelings, you know what I mean. Like, 193 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: I don't think it was a mystery to him that 194 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: he loved these men. They may not have had the 195 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: language to say, oh, I'm gay. He was like distraught 196 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: that they were going to go into their married like 197 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: heateronormative life and leave him behind. I don't think he 198 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: was confused at all, he knew exactly how he felt 199 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: about other men, Like I compare it, for example, to 200 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: somebody I always like love to talk about this topic. 201 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: But would you compare it to like the way Bram 202 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: Stoker wrote about other men, and like his letters to 203 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: Walt Whitman that are very romantic and almost strangely raw 204 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: about like himself and his feelings. But he seemed to 205 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: not make the connection that, oh, I'm I'm having an 206 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: attraction to this person. Yeah, And also when you then 207 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: read his ouvre of work and you're like, wow, women 208 00:12:55,120 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: really are scary, Like, I don't think he understand that 209 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: that was what was going on, Whereas I do feel 210 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: like Charles Sumner one percent knew he was deeply in 211 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: love and devoted to these people and he was grieving 212 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: the loss of that relationship. I don't think it sounded 213 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: right like he didn't get it at all. Yeah. Yeah, 214 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: used language that's different than we would today. 215 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 2: But yeah, it is absolutely possible, and it happened. It 216 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 2: happens for a person not to have a word for 217 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 2: something about themselves, and when they encounter that word for 218 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 2: the first time to be like, oh, that's me actually, 219 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 2: and so I can see how something like that would 220 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 2: have applied to Charles Sumner, right, But I just I 221 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 2: found descriptions of him that sort of were just like, yeah, 222 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 2: I think he was just confused, And I'm like, I'm 223 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 2: I don't think confusion doesn't feel like the right word there. 224 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 2: I even though, you know, even though he was not 225 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 2: a perfect person in any way, I love him. I 226 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 2: did not I'd expect to be ride or die for 227 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 2: Charles Summer. But that is where I wound up over 228 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 2: the course of working on this, And yeah, if I 229 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 2: had had more time, we might have wound up with 230 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 2: our first four parter on a single subject. 231 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean he's extremely admirable. As you said, like, 232 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: he's not a perfect person. Nobody is. Yeah, we know 233 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: that intrinsically after years of working on this show. Yeah, 234 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: there are a lot of great people who had problematic 235 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: views on various things. Yeah, but he sure did put 236 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: himself on the line for people a lot of the time, 237 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: like literally physically on the line for them. Yeah. Yeah, 238 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: in ways that he did not have to and that 239 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: none of his colleagues were doing. He gets points for that. Yeah. Yeah. 240 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 2: His telling voters about the three things to look for 241 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 2: we're backbone, backbone and backbone. Yeah, I have some representatives 242 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 2: right now that I'm just like, you want backbone. Yeah, 243 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 2: you keep putting on blue sky that you're fighting for 244 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 2: us with everything you have. What does that mean? What 245 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 2: are you doing right? Specifically right? 246 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: Do you want to know the other thing before you 247 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: get to any sort of summation? Oh? Sure, that made me. 248 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: This is so rebellious nineteen eighties teenager. Yeah. The whole 249 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: thing with his parents of like, well, do you have 250 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: to get a job sooner rather than later because you 251 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: got to support the family. I know that's historically a norm. 252 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: It makes me crazy every time I hear it. I'm 253 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: like the I mean still, the whole idea of people 254 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: having kids and then burdening them with the responsibility of 255 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: caring for the family makes me bananas. 256 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so much. 257 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: Again, I know that's a cultural norm in a lot 258 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: of places, but my whole thing is like, what is 259 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: that the only reason you had your kid? Like, I 260 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: don't Yeah it again, I'm a very rebellion I was 261 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: always a rebellious kid who was like I very much 262 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: played the I didn't ask to be born card a lot. 263 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: Oh sure, but like, I just that attitude always seems 264 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: so cruel to me. Yeah, because it's like, welcome to 265 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: the world. Here's the anvil that we put around your neck. 266 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 2: Like I don't know, Yeah, yeah, I understand. So I'm 267 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 2: under the impression that, like their parents, his parents were 268 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 2: like very strict and not particularly demonstrative people. But it 269 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 2: was a time when it was the norm to have 270 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 2: big families and fewer really effective ways to prevent pregnancy. 271 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 2: It's like there's multiple layers of stuff going on there, 272 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: and the fact that he was the oldest put him 273 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 2: in the position of like having that expectation of also 274 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 2: caring for younger siblings. And he also made it clear 275 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 2: that that he was like, no, I want to I 276 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 2: want to go to the fancy school. I want to, Like, 277 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 2: this is what I want, and I'm going to study 278 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 2: Latin in secret, right to convince you to let me 279 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 2: do it. 280 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is where I'm like, dude, I get you. 281 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: Get you. Yeah. I was like, dude, I get you. 282 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 2: When he was just like I'm gonna I'm gonna make 283 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 2: big lists of. 284 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: Facts, Well, it reminded me. I I know, I've told 285 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: the story before on the show of How I used 286 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: to write little pamphlets and leave them around the house 287 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: in the hopes of educating my family. Yeah, seriously, I 288 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: was not a not a cool seven year old. I 289 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: was mean. It was very judgy, but it reminded me 290 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: of that. I was like, I get you, I get you. Yeah. 291 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 2: We also have talked many, many times about not wanting 292 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 2: to try to diagnose people with things like it is 293 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 2: not possible to diagnose people with things based on their 294 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 2: written correspondence and stuff like just he is here to 295 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 2: talk at. But I did see some speculation about him 296 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 2: possibly being like neurodivergent in some way, which possibly possibly 297 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 2: so who knows really, but anyway, I love him. If 298 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 2: you live in the Boston area, I learned when I 299 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 2: sat into my group chat that this is who I 300 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 2: was working on a podcast on. He is not the 301 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 2: person the Sumner Tunnel was named for. That was a 302 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 2: different Sumner. Just in case you're curious. 303 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: We talked about Cash Coolidge this week. Yeah, this one 304 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: was a little bit tricky because there is some scholarly 305 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 1: work around his UVRA, but not as much as I 306 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: would like. But then when you start kind of digging 307 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: into newspapers, he gets mentioned, so much that it's easy 308 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: to pull stuff. He was a busy bee in New 309 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: York in the eighteen nineties. Yeah, he was involved in 310 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: all the things, and people literally seem to love him. 311 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: So he seems like he must have been a fun 312 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: guy to hang out with, even before he started painting. 313 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: Dogs playing poker. Yeah, I love dogs. Playing poker has 314 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: been referenced so much in pop culture. 315 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 2: Ah Ton, ah Ton. 316 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: Everything, The Simpsons, Cheese. 317 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 2: The Simpsons was the first thing that I thought. 318 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if you watched Cheers when you 319 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: were growing up, but I think Sam had a collection 320 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: of yeah cash Coolidge pieces or he was really into it. 321 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 2: I've more watched it in syndication, Like I watched it 322 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 2: some when I was growing up, but it has uh 323 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 2: when it has been either in syndication or on streaming services, 324 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,199 Speaker 2: I've watched an amount of it. 325 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love those paintings. It's a little bit funny 326 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: to me. We included talk about it in here because 327 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 1: it does come up a lot, so I didn't want 328 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: to act like that was not part of the zeitgeisty 329 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 1: discussion about it the whole. Like, people love his work 330 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: because it's a man's world and I'm like, that never 331 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,719 Speaker 1: even occurred to me no growing up or looking at 332 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: any of these pieces of art. I always just thought 333 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: they were hilarious and fun and I never was like, right, 334 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: because they're also very masculine. That never crossed my mind 335 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: for a second, because puppies. Yeah, I was sort of 336 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: surprised when I came across and then saw it in 337 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: multiple examinations of his work. The fact that he modeled 338 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 1: some of the dogs. I don't Caravausio figure. That was 339 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: very funny to me. And then I was never need 340 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: I need an image of the card sharps immediately and 341 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, he did model some of 342 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: those dogs. Yeah, I don't know why that's so funny 343 00:20:55,280 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, I'm obviously familiar with the dog playing poker, 344 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: and I had just never really seen the appeal of it. 345 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: They existed, and I was like, Okay, it's dogs and 346 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: they're playing poker. And I've been candid about the fact 347 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 1: that I have always been more of a cat person 348 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: than a dog person, and I don't know if that's 349 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: related to the fact that I like, my response to 350 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: them has always just been kind of like, huh, it's 351 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: dogs and they're playing poker. Yeah, I love, I love, 352 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: I love, but I also I love kitch which is 353 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: like I always crack up when I think about how 354 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: much I love kitchy things, because do you remember in 355 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: the unbearable likeness of being, when Sabina says to Thomas, 356 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 1: in the kingdom of kitch, you would be a monster. 357 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: And it's like a compliment to him that he is, 358 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 1: you know, intellectual and highbrow and he is not in 359 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: any way interested in like trashy things. And I'm like, well, 360 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: I guess in the kingdom of high brow intellectualism, I 361 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: would be the monster. I'm like, yeah, give me dogs, 362 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: play poker all day long, give me all the weird 363 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: kitchy art. I just think it's fun. And I also 364 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 1: think it's an interesting I mean one. We've talked so 365 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 1: much on the show about my feelings about art and 366 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: how art should be democratized, and this idea of only 367 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: fine art should count as art is right messed up. Yes, 368 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: love all the masters, YoY. You've seen me cry in 369 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: front of any Dutch Golden Age painting we encounter in 370 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: our travels. But there is also an interesting place not 371 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 1: just to say like this is or is not like 372 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: high quality in terms of realism or it's you know, 373 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: proportions or whatever, like actual technique, but it also says 374 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: something about the world that it was created in. There 375 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: is something to be gleaned from the fact that in 376 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: the early nineteen hundreds there was a company that was like, 377 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: you know, it's gonna sell a kajillion copies calendars with 378 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: these dogs play in poker. Clearly, the appeal of that 379 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: in that moment, right speaks to what that moment was 380 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: like to live in, and that to me is the 381 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: interesting part. And they did, I mean they were right. 382 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: Those things sold like crazy. Yeah, that's why they then 383 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: were like, well, let's put them on plates and on 384 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: socks and prints and everything else because people love it. Yeah. 385 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: And the fact that people need to embrace something silly 386 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: sometimes that is humorous probably reflects like the fact that 387 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: they maybe didn't always have hilarity and frivolity in their 388 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: day to day life and they just want one damn 389 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 1: picture to hang on their wall that made them smile 390 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: every day. Yeah, bring on the kitchen baby. 391 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 2: If they were Louis Waynecats playing poker, I would have 392 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 2: been incredibly into it. 393 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: Your species is Tracy. I guess so I love a 394 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: big goofy dog. I do love that he very clearly 395 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: had breed preferences, right. I do not see a lot 396 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: of little dogs in these paintings. Once in a while 397 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: you'll see one pop up in like a background of 398 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 1: a big scene, but for the most part, they are 399 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: all the bigger dog breeds. Yeah, like cobby body dogs. 400 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: It's kind of funny. I feel like if he were 401 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: watching the Westminster Dog Show, he would have clearly very 402 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 1: big interest in certain groups and not others. Yeah. Yeah, 403 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: I'd be like, you keep your toy group away from me, 404 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: is what he would say. I wouldn't say that I 405 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: want all the groups, but I love it. 406 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 2: What I love, speaking of dog shows, is watching the 407 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 2: dogs that do so terribly at agility trials. That is 408 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 2: my favorite dogs. 409 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: Like when they're just ill behaved and they won't pay 410 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:49,959 Speaker 1: attention to cues. 411 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're just like or I mean, my favorites 412 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,479 Speaker 2: are the dogs that do seem to be trying but 413 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 2: don't quite understand what needs to be happening right now, 414 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 2: and they'll get confused and turn around and go backwards, 415 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,919 Speaker 2: or they will run part way over the little teeter totter. 416 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: And then go back or uh. I find it all 417 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: very delightful. I know you want something, I'm going to 418 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: try a number of things and hope one of them 419 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: is the right one. Yeah. Yeah, they're very They delight me. 420 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: I love when they use that opportunity to showcase like 421 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: shelter dogs that maybe don't have amazing agility training, but 422 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 1: they're very seat and sweet. Yeah. Great, anything that gets 423 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: more animals adopted is a good move in my book, 424 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: because we have plenty of them. Yeah, if you want 425 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: a dog out there, I guarantee there's a perfect one 426 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: at a shelter that is exactly the right fit for 427 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: you and your family. So please adopt puppies, adopt them. 428 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 1: I would love to adopt dogs, but I travel too 429 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: much and it would make chaos, yeah for them, and 430 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: they would probably be very stressed. 431 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 2: My cats are stressed, and they are you know, a 432 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 2: different level of care needed. We have a pet sitter 433 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 2: who comes when we travel, and they're spoiled, so the 434 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 2: petsitter comes twice a day. But still we get home 435 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 2: and they are very needy and it's clear that they 436 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 2: are upset that we have been gone. Yeah, I mean 437 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 2: We're very lucky because our pet sitter is our close 438 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 2: friend that we trade pet sitting with, so like she 439 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 2: has been involved in our cat's lives from the gate, 440 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 2: like the day they come home, she will come over 441 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 2: and meet them and spend time with them, and you know, 442 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 2: they all know her very well. And like she was sending. 443 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: Us pictures of while we were in her roco the 444 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: cats on her lap every night, some of which do 445 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: not normally sit on our laps, and there was a 446 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: little bit of like, what do you mean, Marva said 447 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: in her lap, a minor jealousy. She also has a 448 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: very great way with cats. But even so, I don't 449 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: think there is traumatized, but they do get like one 450 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 1: of our cats has been a barnacle on me since 451 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: we got home, where she's like, do not do that again, please, 452 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 1: thank you. Right. 453 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 2: Our pet sitter, toward the end of the Morocco trip, 454 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 2: sent pictures of one of our cats on the dining 455 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 2: room table, where she is not supposed to be. She 456 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 2: gets up there, she knows she's not allowed up there 457 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 2: because if she hears us stand up in the other room, 458 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: we will hear her jump down off the table. Right, 459 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 2: But the you know pet sitter doesn't know necessarily what 460 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 2: all the rules are the house of the house are. 461 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 2: She took a couple of pictures of Onyx on the table, 462 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 2: and after we got back, Onyx was like, I'll show you. 463 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 2: I will get on the table while you are looking 464 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 2: at me. How's that baby still not allowed of there? 465 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 2: Kitty cat babies? 466 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I do love a pupper. Oh they're fun. 467 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: Doggies are fun. Maybe one day, when my life calms 468 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: down and I stop doing things, I can have a pup. 469 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: But at this point I also don't want to like 470 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: jack up the cat's life either, so many short So 471 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 1: in the meantime, I just donate a lot to shelters 472 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: because I want those dogs to have toys and beds 473 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: and yummy food and all the things they need. Yeah, 474 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: and you know, maybe we should be donating prints of 475 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: dogs playing poker so that the dogs will think, Hey, 476 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: I could do other things with my time. I could 477 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: monetize my adorableness and play poker and win money. I 478 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 1: doubt that would really work out, but it's fun to 479 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,400 Speaker 1: think about. If you are headed into your weekend, I 480 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: hope that you get to think about doing fun things, 481 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,199 Speaker 1: whether that is with your pets or without. If you 482 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: do not have time off, I hope you still get 483 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: to spend time with pets if you love them, or 484 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: with other people that make you happy and feel content, 485 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: or anything that makes you feel joy, whether that is 486 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: kitchy or high brow. Whatever you love is great. Just 487 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: engage with it and make your heart happy. We will 488 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode, and 489 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: then on Monday with something brand new. 490 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 2: Stuff you missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. 491 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 492 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,719 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.