Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Ramsy's jock.
Speaker 2: I go by the name q Ward most of the time,
Speaker 2: not all of the time. Most of the time.
Speaker 1: Though, talk to him. Uh, and we are back up
Speaker 1: in you one more gain, Like we always do it,
Speaker 1: this time to talk to you about how the world
Speaker 1: feels from our perspective and not just me and Q
Speaker 1: but you know black people or you know people that
Speaker 1: might be considered marginalized or otherwise have been born with
Speaker 1: the striker two against them. And Uh, I'm going to
Speaker 1: ask you to stick around because there's a lot to
Speaker 1: share with you today. I do have what I believe
Speaker 1: to be some good news, which is rare around these parts.
Speaker 1: All right, but you got to stick around Forday, you
Speaker 1: gotta stay tuned for that. But yeah, a lot in
Speaker 1: store feed today, including a discussion about Ryan Koogler. If
Speaker 1: you haven't heard about it, it was reported that he
Speaker 1: went into the bank to make a withdrawal, police got involved,
Speaker 1: et cetera, and it wasn't a bank robbery, but they
Speaker 1: thought it was. And so we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: that because it's important to share just how common that is,
Speaker 1: how it feels to go through that. I know I've
Speaker 1: been in situations like that for a few times in
Speaker 1: my life, and hopefully by learning from our stories and
Speaker 1: our perspective, you know, we kind of create stronger bonds
Speaker 1: across racial lines and so forth. We're also going to
Speaker 1: talk about the Emmet Till Anti Lynching Act of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two this year that was passed by the House
Speaker 1: and the Senate, so next step is for it to
Speaker 1: become law, and so we're really excited about that as well.
Speaker 1: And then of course we are going to talk about
Speaker 1: Mary mcleodmufune a couple of times in the show today,
Speaker 1: and I employee to stick around for that as well.
Speaker 1: But first let's delve into some ebony excellence, shall we
Speaker 1: shall serve? We shall so shout out to Black Enterprise
Speaker 1: dot com gave us some notes on this article right here. So.
Speaker 1: As TikTok continues to face criticism for white creatives who
Speaker 1: receive more visual representation than black creatives, Instagram added a
Speaker 1: new feature to help address this issue. On Monday, Instagram
Speaker 1: announced a new special tag where professional accounts and influencers
Speaker 1: will receive credit for their original creations. This feature was
Speaker 1: made in direct response to the black creators who feel
Speaker 1: overlooked or shut out from trends that they create. NBC
Speaker 1: News reported the tag comes after black content creators boycotted
Speaker 1: creating dance challenges on TikTok after noticing white creators were
Speaker 1: receiving more recognition from the trends created by black users.
Speaker 1: How about that. That's a real thing. If you didn't know,
Speaker 1: Black people makeup stuff, White people do it, and then
Speaker 1: it gets popular and then white people get the credit.
Speaker 1: Think Elvis, Elvis creating rock and roll, you know, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like that sort of thing, Eminem
Speaker 1: being the best rapper or a lot. You know, that's
Speaker 1: sort of I'm not talking about technical skills, but in
Speaker 1: certain circles they don't go beyond that, you know, not
Speaker 1: realizing really it comes from struggle and the different people. Anyway,
Speaker 1: Alexis Michelle, I hope I said this right. A. J.
Speaker 1: I G, a data analyst, worked with Instagram engineer cam
Speaker 1: run Boyd to address these disparities on Instagram in an
Speaker 1: effort to amplify more black creators and get the influencers
Speaker 1: to transition their viral content from TikTok over to Instagram.
Speaker 1: Quote black creators and addressing that inequity in the creator
Speaker 1: ecosystem in quote a central focus when developing the new feature.
Speaker 1: I G said to use the new enhanced tags, users
Speaker 1: will need to tap tap tag people when creating a post.
Speaker 1: Tech Crunch reported the next step is to add sorry.
Speaker 1: The next step is to tag on ad tag where
Speaker 1: users can search and select their contributors. So basically, it's
Speaker 1: just a way to ensure that credit goes where credit
Speaker 1: is due. And shout out to Instagram and shout out
Speaker 1: to these two beautiful black women Alexis, Michelle I G
Speaker 1: and Cameron Boyd for making that happen. I think it's
Speaker 1: a gi a gi, a gi. Okay, very good, thank you, man.
Speaker 1: I butchered it the whole segment. I apologize with heart,
Speaker 1: but a gi all. Right now, Ryan Kugler, So, Q
Speaker 1: have you heard about this story of Ryan Kugler? Unfortunately yes, okay,
Speaker 1: so you set the stage for so who is he?
Speaker 1: What happened? And we'll go from there.
Speaker 2: So Ryan Kugler is a filmmaker, writer, producer. First got
Speaker 2: on my radar for directing a film called Fruit Built
Speaker 2: Station with Michael B. Jordan, but probably garnered the attention
Speaker 2: of the rest of the world when he directed this
Speaker 2: small Disney movie that you know, Marvel Studios did that
Speaker 2: people might have heard of, called Black Panther. Oh oh yeah,
Speaker 2: that that movie is a genre changing blockbuster movie. I
Speaker 2: was being sarcastic. Uh, you know about a Marvel superhero
Speaker 2: hero from the fictional country of Wakanda on the very
Speaker 2: very real continent of Africa. Right, you know, it broke
Speaker 2: all kinds of records. It was an incredible film. He's
Speaker 2: actually working on a sequel now, so very well known,
Speaker 2: very prominent, very wealthy black director.
Speaker 1: Okay, So the story goes that he went to a bank.
Speaker 1: I believe it was a Bank of America, Yes, sir, ye,
Speaker 1: Bank of America in Atlanta. My notes today come from CNN,
Speaker 1: And he was attempting to withdraw some cash. Looks like
Speaker 1: twelve thousand dollars in cash, all right, So tell a
Speaker 1: little bit more of the story.
Speaker 2: So he was, I guess, let me give you guys
Speaker 2: some context here. He's withdrawing twelve thousand dollars, which, when
Speaker 2: you have as much money as he has, doesn't sound
Speaker 2: like a lot of money. But imagine someone on the
Speaker 2: top of a bank counter counting out twelve thousand dollars
Speaker 2: and handing it to him, and everyone else in the
Speaker 2: bank seeing this, right, So to be a bit yeah
Speaker 2: in Atlanta, So to be a bit more discreet in
Speaker 2: this time where during this pandemic and you know, during
Speaker 2: some financial hardships that a lot of people have been
Speaker 2: through this guy walking into a bank and the bank
Speaker 2: counting out twelve thousand dollars in cash and handing it
Speaker 2: to him, to be a lot more discreet. He wrote
Speaker 2: the teller a note that he wanted to do this
Speaker 2: in a way that didn't grab everyone's attention. The teller,
Speaker 2: I think, got the impression, strangely that mister Kruger was
Speaker 2: writing a I'm robbing this bank note and uh called
Speaker 2: nine one.
Speaker 1: One now because it is our responsibility to tell the
Speaker 1: whole story, I believe I read that the teller go ahead,
Speaker 1: you jump in.
Speaker 2: I was just going to point out to people this
Speaker 2: wasn't like on a loose leaf piece of paper. He
Speaker 2: wrote the note on a withdrawal slip, like his account,
Speaker 2: his name, his account number, the amount that's being withdrawn,
Speaker 2: and hey, just by the way, so I don't draw
Speaker 2: too much attention. Is there a way for us to
Speaker 2: do this discreetly, like I want to paint a clear picture,
Speaker 2: because people might say, well, he wrote a note, of
Speaker 2: course they thought it was no. He wrote this note
Speaker 2: on an official withdrawal slip with his name and his
Speaker 2: account number on it. It wasn't just some random note
Speaker 2: on a piece of paper that he slid through the
Speaker 2: bank through the bank teller's window.
Speaker 1: Okay, now I'm glad you said that too, now, because
Speaker 1: we need to tell the whole story. I remember reading
Speaker 1: that the teller was a black woman and she was pregnant.
Speaker 1: Now how true that is, I don't know, but I
Speaker 1: read that on TMZO on his head. The other thing
Speaker 1: is that he went in wearing a face mask and
Speaker 1: he had shades on. Right. So I'm just saying that
Speaker 1: because it's important to tell all of the details.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, cute, However, everyone in America's wearing a mask
Speaker 2: right now, say it, so this won't This wouldn't look
Speaker 2: as strange as it would have once upon a time.
Speaker 1: Sure, he wasn't wearing a bank robbers mask.
Speaker 2: He was wearing the same mask that you had on
Speaker 2: on your last flight or the last restaurant or business
Speaker 2: that you visited.
Speaker 1: That had a mask requirement, right exactly, Or if you're just.
Speaker 2: Trying not to catch the cootie from people and you
Speaker 2: got your mask on fair point, not hey give me
Speaker 2: your money mask.
Speaker 1: No, it definitely was not that. And of course, you know,
Speaker 1: there's I'm sure a good number of you that have
Speaker 1: been able to see this and kind of you kind
Speaker 1: of know the backstory here a bit. But for those
Speaker 1: that don't, it's important for us to tell that whole
Speaker 1: story because what we wanted to do today is kind
Speaker 1: of let you know what it feels like, as we
Speaker 1: do on this show, to be in that situation. Okay,
Speaker 1: so to continue, he goes in as as you mentioned, Q,
Speaker 1: he's wearing a mask much like everyone else. He has
Speaker 1: glasses on, which is not a crime. People wear shades
Speaker 1: all the time. I have a few pairs. I know
Speaker 1: you were. You know, if you're listening to our to
Speaker 1: our show today, you probably have a few pairs of
Speaker 1: shades as well. Right, he goes into his bank. He
Speaker 1: fills out his deposits or withdrawal slip has an amount
Speaker 1: over ten thousand dollars, which is another point. It's fair
Speaker 1: to mention that anything over ten thousand dollars typically will
Speaker 1: trigger some sort of hey, let's let's you know, document
Speaker 1: this or otherwise.
Speaker 2: I think it triggers an alert on your account.
Speaker 1: Sure, sure, right, so all these things will see it,
Speaker 1: all of those right. The thing is is that there's
Speaker 1: there's actually two things. One I hesitate to yield to
Speaker 1: someone who might argue it that the same treatment would
Speaker 1: have been given to a person in the same predicament
Speaker 1: if that person was white, Right, I just don't see
Speaker 1: that happening in the same way where the police show up.
Speaker 1: The other part of it is that I feel like
Speaker 1: it's sort of more humiliating if it happens to you
Speaker 1: and you're black. Right. It's just that there's a special
Speaker 1: type of embarrassment that goes along with it, especially if
Speaker 1: you're doing well for yourself. Right. Anyway, I'll jump in
Speaker 1: here back to the CNN article. When police arrived, two
Speaker 1: of Coogler's colleagues, who were waiting for him in a
Speaker 1: parked vehicle outside the bank, were detained and placed in
Speaker 1: the back of a police car. Coogler was placed in
Speaker 1: handcuffs while police investigated the call. He was released shortly
Speaker 1: after they verified his identity. The police report States. So
Speaker 1: I don't know who bank it is, but I know
Speaker 1: who you know whose money is in it. Q says
Speaker 1: that quite a bit around here, And I think it's
Speaker 1: important to understand that these sorts of things, call them microaggressions,
Speaker 1: call them just being black. You know, these sort these
Speaker 1: sorts of things very much shape our lives. These are
Speaker 1: the things that maybe in that moment, something like that
Speaker 1: happens to me. I don't demand my dignity in that
Speaker 1: moment because I'm just trying to go home. I'm embarrassed.
Speaker 1: You know, everybody's looking at me like I'm a criminal.
Speaker 1: I've worked really hard, I've achieved success, I played the
Speaker 1: game the right way, and I can't shake my skin right,
Speaker 1: not that I would want to, but it does count
Speaker 1: against you in certain situations, as you know, as you
Speaker 1: well know, if you have more melanine in your skin,
Speaker 1: it's it's not it's not it's not like it's an
Speaker 1: upwardly mobile passed through through the ranks of society. You know.
Speaker 1: If anything, it's a challenge, right, So you might not
Speaker 1: vuish your frustrations in that moment, but things like this,
Speaker 1: over the course of a long life, you know, something
Speaker 1: goes missing. Everyone looks at you, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: you name it. Any sort of petty thing happens. Even
Speaker 1: if people aren't looking at you, feel like they're looking
Speaker 1: at you.
Speaker 2: Right, And then imagine Rams his colleagues are sitting in
Speaker 2: the car and then all of a sudden they're being
Speaker 2: detained and placed at handcuffs. About that, So his frustration
Speaker 2: for himself, sure, but his frustration for his people, his friends,
Speaker 2: maybe his relatives. You know, it just says college.
Speaker 1: We don't know.
Speaker 2: This could be girlfriend, best friend, family member. Yeah, they're
Speaker 2: just sitting in the car. They have no idea what's happening.
Speaker 2: They're being detained and handcuffed, not for a mistaken identity,
Speaker 2: not for or for essentially nothing. Yeah, being with him
Speaker 2: and looking like him.
Speaker 1: As we call it, black and nearby? Why'd you got
Speaker 1: him go by the police? I was black and nearby.
Speaker 1: You know that's a real thing. Now, I want to
Speaker 1: make this breathe a little bit for you. Once upon
Speaker 1: a time, Ramses high school, Ramses, maybe I'm sixteen, something
Speaker 1: like that. Where I went to school in Phoenix, Arizona.
Speaker 1: There used to be a mall called Chris Town Mall,
Speaker 1: and we would go to this mall after school sometimes
Speaker 1: just to hang out, as we did back before social
Speaker 1: media and before the internet took over the world and
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff, you know. So this is probably
Speaker 1: the mid to late nineties, right. I walked through from
Speaker 1: the outside of the mall through a Walgreens in the mall. Right,
Speaker 1: So I walked from outside into the inner ring of
Speaker 1: the mall through not an entrance, but the Walgreens entrance.
Speaker 1: In other words, the store had an entrance into the
Speaker 1: mall and an entrance into the store from the outside
Speaker 1: of the mall. Right, So I walked into the store
Speaker 1: on my way into the mall, have my backpack on,
Speaker 1: of course, and you know, I'm just going to go
Speaker 1: hang out with my friends. I'm not in Walmart for
Speaker 1: or Walgreens rather for anything, just as a passway. I
Speaker 1: get to the mall entrance on the on the inside
Speaker 1: of the store, and they have those like security beeper
Speaker 1: post things that kind of frame the door as you
Speaker 1: walk in and out of the store. So they didn't
Speaker 1: go off when I walked in to the Walgreens, but
Speaker 1: they did go off as I was walking into the mall. Right.
Speaker 1: Pepepepepepepp uh was that me, right, So you know, I'm
Speaker 1: not a big person. The person behind the desk grabs me, right,
Speaker 1: and I'm with friends or whatever, and oh my god,
Speaker 1: how embarrassing. Right, And then of course everybody's looking because
Speaker 1: those things are beeping so loud and the mall is
Speaker 1: right there. You know, I'm like everybody can see into
Speaker 1: the store me black as I am like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is just the thing that these people need to
Speaker 1: see because they're just gonna walk by and be like,
Speaker 1: see there goes another one. Oh my god. They're just
Speaker 1: they're all criminals, you know, and I'm reinforcing stereotypes. Right.
Speaker 1: This is how it feels in that moment, like really,
Speaker 1: and you know me, obviously I didn't steal anything, but
Speaker 1: it looked like that, and the way they were treating
Speaker 1: me looked like that. Right, grabbed me by my backpack.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to leave anyway, and then the security
Speaker 1: guards came out and whatever. It took my backpack off
Speaker 1: and they kind of held me at the desk and
Speaker 1: I wasn't I wasn't leaving. I was just as curious
Speaker 1: as they were. They held my backpack over the beeper
Speaker 1: thing and it went off again. So now it looks
Speaker 1: like whatever I stole was in my backpack, right, So
Speaker 1: and then it beats that second time, Bepp. Everybody's looking
Speaker 1: like more people walking by, people pushing strollers, old people,
Speaker 1: you know. And this is in Arizona, very conservative place,
Speaker 1: a lot of people in Arizona. This is all they
Speaker 1: need to further reinforce stereotypes that, oh my gosh, we
Speaker 1: need to move away from the city because we need
Speaker 1: to get away from these black people are you know,
Speaker 1: black people breaking the houses, or black people are criminals,
Speaker 1: or black whatever. Just kind of reinforces this false narrative
Speaker 1: that or this bogus narrative that exists for us. Right
Speaker 1: in some cases, you know, yes, people all colors commit crimes, right,
Speaker 1: but you know, I'll be fair. Black people get arrested
Speaker 1: more for crimes. It doesn't mean black people commit more crimes.
Speaker 1: Black people do get arrested for more crimes because neighborhoods
Speaker 1: are more patrolled and black people are overly policed and
Speaker 1: overly prosecuted and overly sentenced, et cetera. And it's a
Speaker 1: whole cycle. Right, We talk about this on the show
Speaker 1: all the time, but far be it from me to
Speaker 1: contribute to that narrative because I am a black man
Speaker 1: and I have to live the rest of my life,
Speaker 1: and at that time, I wanted children. So I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: I gotta be a stand up guy. They're going through
Speaker 1: my backpack now, taking all my stuff out of my
Speaker 1: backpack and throwing it on the floor, throwing it here,
Speaker 1: throwing it looking for whatever it is that I quote
Speaker 1: unquote stole right being wildly disrespectful, like they got them one.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh man, there's nothing I can say.
Speaker 1: I have to keep my composure. I'm gonna read this
Speaker 1: quote from Ryan Coogler at the end. I have to
Speaker 1: keep my composure because I know that the moment I
Speaker 1: act up and I, you know, call them out for
Speaker 1: denying me a shred of dignity at the benefit of
Speaker 1: the doubt, you know what I mean, the moment I
Speaker 1: called him out, like hey, you're getting loud to we bored.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't need that, So I just let
Speaker 1: him go through my My homework is you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like like, oh man, And then finally they
Speaker 1: take out It's like an old you remember, trapper Keepers
Speaker 1: is basically like a folder for those who don't know.
Speaker 1: It's like a folder or three ring binder sort of
Speaker 1: folded that you put your hold on.
Speaker 2: Wait, what's up. The trapper Keeper was definitely not just
Speaker 2: a photo. I'm not gonna let you disrespect you're right
Speaker 2: list trapper keepers will fly. Yeah, the trapper Keeper was
Speaker 2: the truth. Rams it's painted as just the folder. The
Speaker 2: trapper Keeper was next level, like it might be Gucci
Speaker 2: Findy Louis Batan, like it might as well have been
Speaker 2: that the trapper Keeper was it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, so so basically I don't know if it
Speaker 1: was a trapper Keeper per se, but you're you're not
Speaker 1: wrong there. But it was old. You could see that
Speaker 1: it was older. It had been in my backpack for
Speaker 1: probably two or three years, because you know, trapper keeper's money,
Speaker 1: and you know, you don't get a lot of back
Speaker 1: to school shopping, you know, like you might think when
Speaker 1: you grow up black, you know what I mean, your
Speaker 1: stuff from last year still work. Because let's run that again.
Speaker 1: You know, you can get some new clothes, you stay
Speaker 1: ged up the first week of school. Outside of that,
Speaker 1: you don't got to buy nothing else. You ain't gonna
Speaker 1: get it. So they pull it out. They pull out
Speaker 1: this folder, and the folder is clearly ancient, years of dirt, dust, grind, pencils,
Speaker 1: shavings and you know whatever all over it. They slide
Speaker 1: it through the guard post thing and it beats again.
Speaker 1: Now they open it up and they see on the
Speaker 1: inside there's a square like digital like square thing that's
Speaker 1: meant to trigger those Right, So whenever whoever bought that initially,
Speaker 1: might have been my birth mother or somebody like that,
Speaker 1: whoever got that for me, maybe I got it.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: At the store, they never took that sticker off. And
Speaker 1: of course I don't, you know, carry my backpack into
Speaker 1: every store I go into, so it just was there
Speaker 1: for years. I carry my backpack to school, you know,
Speaker 1: and I go home and I don't know why I
Speaker 1: didn't trip the front alarm of that store, but it
Speaker 1: did trip the one on my way into the mall.
Speaker 1: And the way they disrespected me and then subsequently had
Speaker 1: to apologize and pick up my homework off the ground,
Speaker 1: it let me know, like, dang, they really thought they
Speaker 1: had me. Because now they're like having to eat all
Speaker 1: those words and to eat that attitude. Right, and I
Speaker 1: watch this. This might have been maybe a year after that,
Speaker 1: maybe a year and some change after that, Right, so
Speaker 1: it's still fresh in my mind. I'm probably toward the
Speaker 1: end of high school or just out of high school
Speaker 1: at this point. Right. I was at a store in
Speaker 1: the in this is still in Arizona, but this time
Speaker 1: it's in Scottsdale, right, And a woman walks out of
Speaker 1: the store and I couldn't tell you what she was
Speaker 1: carrying or whatever like that, the alarm beaps. What do
Speaker 1: they do? They say, excuse me, ma'am, we might have
Speaker 1: not removed one of your tags from your purchased items.
Speaker 1: Could we get that off for you so you can
Speaker 1: enjoy your You know, we don't. We don't want you
Speaker 1: to take it home, and then you you can't cause
Speaker 1: you can't get it off when you get home. Right,
Speaker 1: You're very kind to it. Now. I know that this
Speaker 1: is one group of people at a Walgreens, and this
Speaker 1: is another group of people at a fancy store. But
Speaker 1: I think that there's just a benefit of the doubt
Speaker 1: ascribed to people that black people don't always get right.
Speaker 1: So I'll finish this quote here quote. This situation should
Speaker 1: never have happened. However, Bank of America worked with me
Speaker 1: and addressed it. To my satisfaction, and we have moved on.
Speaker 1: Coogler said in a statement to Variety, Right, that's dignity,
Speaker 1: That's okay. I'm not gonna like that. I gotta take
Speaker 1: that and eat it, you know, I gotta you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna make a big deal a lot of it,
Speaker 1: because I don't need this to turn into anything. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm a lot of people don't want that fight. I
Speaker 1: understand that because I'm likely just put my folder back
Speaker 1: in my backpack and just let me go. I'm already
Speaker 1: so embarrassed. Right. Unfortunately the police weren't showing up being
Speaker 1: super aggressive with this guy, because then that would have
Speaker 1: been a whole other issue. I'm sure based on what
Speaker 1: I know. And then, because I need to say it,
Speaker 1: the statement from the bank is quote, we deeply regret
Speaker 1: that this incident occurred. It never should have happened, and
Speaker 1: we have apologized to mister Cooler. Bank of America said
Speaker 1: in a statement to see in it, two things that
Speaker 1: needed to be said. Now, this is not nothing. This
Speaker 1: is the sort of thing that contributes to the mountain
Speaker 1: that is carried by black people. These things we only
Speaker 1: know about this story because he's a film director. He's
Speaker 1: a famous person. This happens all the time. I told
Speaker 1: you one story because it was similar and how I
Speaker 1: was like, they thought I was stealing, you know, but
Speaker 1: my life is filed well, not field. I've had a
Speaker 1: really happy life, but there's enough of these incidents in
Speaker 1: my life for me to understand that and rather a
Speaker 1: lack of these occurrences and my less melanated friends is
Speaker 1: life to let me know that our experiences are often different,
Speaker 1: and it's important to share that, especially on this show,
Speaker 1: because this might be the only place you'll hear about it, So,
Speaker 1: you know, shout out to Ryan Coogler, you know, keep
Speaker 1: doing your thing, and I guess you know, we've all
Speaker 1: learned from it, all right, And that's a good enough
Speaker 1: place to leave it for right now. Stick around your radios.
Speaker 1: We're coming back with more Civic Cipher right after this