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Speaker 1: Hey man, Hey Leah.

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Speaker 2: I'm well, how are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty good.

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Speaker 3: I listened to the podcast I speak with Keith just

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Speaker 3: hours after the first two episodes drop.

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Speaker 1: You only you know how it's going in But even

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Speaker 1: though I you know, I also know you know where

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Speaker 1: it's going, I'm still sitting on the edge of my seat,

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Speaker 1: on the edge of the tarnet. Who knows whether or

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Speaker 1: not it's gonna make a difference in terms of the

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Speaker 1: outcome of my own personal individual situation. But what you

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Speaker 1: are doing by excavating, going back in and digging through

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Speaker 1: the debris that was left behind and bringing that to surface.

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Speaker 1: You you you ribbing people the other other excuse to

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Speaker 1: say that we didn't know. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: you know, you going into some real dark place and

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Speaker 1: you know I was there and my heart beating meal

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Speaker 1: fast after we're going through the music. It's real. It's

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Speaker 1: it's spokey, man, you know what I mean. I mean

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Speaker 1: it is, It's really something. And you know, of course

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Speaker 1: I don't like hearing about my former self in the light.

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Speaker 1: You know, you know, I'm ashamed, you know stood to

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Speaker 1: watch this man, you know be you know it's twenty

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Speaker 1: three though you know, and that was thirty years ago.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was twenty three years old, and you know,

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Speaker 1: just froze.

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Speaker 3: Keith is referring to watching the murder of Dennis Weaver

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Speaker 3: in that KVE block cell.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to see yourself, but it happened. It's real,

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Speaker 1: It's real. And you know, as I said at the outset,

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Speaker 1: you know, as long as you after the truth, you

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Speaker 1: know you are now we're not gonna have this problems,

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Speaker 1: you know, And so you know I still feel that,

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Speaker 1: and so I'm just waiting on the next episode.

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Speaker 3: I'm Leah Rothman. This is the Real Killer Episode eleven.

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Speaker 3: I hear the fire trucks coming.

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Speaker 1: When is the next episode coming out?

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Speaker 2: Next Thursday?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Every Thursday. Hun you gotta wait a hole wait.

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Speaker 3: Not long after this conversation, in February twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 3: things in Keith's world take a major turn. He goes

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Speaker 3: on a hunger strike to protest some rights which he

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Speaker 3: says had been stripped from him, and to get ahead

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Speaker 3: of it before even more are taken away. As we

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Speaker 3: know by now, this isn't Keith's first hunger strike.

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Speaker 1: I was a home strike this time for I think

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Speaker 1: eight or nine days, and it's a cruising process, especially

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Speaker 1: as a city three yoh. You know, one of the

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Speaker 1: things that I was protesting also with the sact that

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Speaker 1: I was being raft in the visiting room. My campaign

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Speaker 1: has elevated somewhat in over the past couple of years,

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Speaker 1: and that you know, we are receiving more publicity, there's

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Speaker 1: more things happen and bring the more scrutiny to the

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Speaker 1: Luisville prosecutions. And there's been you know, aggivation obviously from

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Speaker 1: the state about that, and it's just been a constant

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Speaker 1: low grade antagonisms, as I call them, like death five

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Speaker 1: thousand cuts all meant to kind of you know, lure

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Speaker 1: you into overreaction and then you know, they can take

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Speaker 1: the phone from you, they can take the business, and

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Speaker 1: all those things directly affect my participation in my campaign. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: After the Real Killer came out on the sixteenth of February,

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Speaker 1: I went on a visit on the seventeenth. When I

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Speaker 1: came back, mysell had been ransacked and that was really

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Speaker 1: the kind of the straw for me.

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Speaker 3: A few days into the hunger strike, Keith is put

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Speaker 3: into solitary confinement, also known as the whole.

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Speaker 1: You know, the thing that I found most like, surprising

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Speaker 1: them by the whole thing. So I hadn't been in

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Speaker 1: the hole in over a decade or so, and so

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Speaker 1: I haven't been exposed to the average prisoners down here,

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Speaker 1: the young guys, the guys who haven't yet acquired to

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Speaker 1: resources mental, emotional, financials to really navigate this difficult situation.

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Speaker 1: And I had been away from that type of struggle

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Speaker 1: for a long time. I've been here for twenty five years,

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Speaker 1: so of course I have adjusted. You know, I went

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Speaker 1: into this sale and it was writing graffiti.

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Speaker 4: All on the walls.

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Speaker 1: You no, guys that are different degrees of distress, writing

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Speaker 1: SOS messages out on the wall. The mirror was crashed out.

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Speaker 1: These guys they smoking this drug called toned fenmerally some

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Speaker 1: taller paper or paper with some rope spray on it.

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Speaker 1: And these kids, all they are they talk about is massive.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm fifty three years old, them sitting back.

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Speaker 1: I'm listening. It's weird ass shit, you know, even talking

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Speaker 1: about hours. Man, they're just talking about their penises, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. But that's a reduction. That's how

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Speaker 1: you've been reduced to, you know what I mean. You know,

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Speaker 1: my first day in the hole, I stood at my

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Speaker 1: door for two hours talking to young guys about how

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Speaker 1: to equip themselves, about different books I've read that helped

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Speaker 1: me along the way. I think I was back in

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Speaker 1: the hole for like five or six days, and then

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Speaker 1: they moved me down to the infirmary, which is like

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Speaker 1: the you know, obvious the end of the spectrum in

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Speaker 1: terms of, you know, the noise and craziness of the hole,

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Speaker 1: the chaos of the hole. The infirmary was just this

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Speaker 1: real crenth, the walls well painted white, no graffiti, real antiseptic,

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Speaker 1: you know, bed in the middle of the room. And

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Speaker 1: so I was able then to kind of reflect on

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Speaker 1: what I had just went through.

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Speaker 2: It's there.

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Speaker 3: Keith listens to aisode four and he has a big

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Speaker 3: reaction to what he heard Judge Crow say. Here's a

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Speaker 3: clip from that episode. Did you, in your years of

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Speaker 3: being a judge have a certain reputation?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I kind of did.

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Speaker 6: I actually had a song about me if I I

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Speaker 6: should have looked it up. I've got to play it

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Speaker 6: for you, hanging Judge pro That's that was the song,

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Speaker 6: and that was a reputation among most of the attorneys.

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Speaker 6: I knew. I was a strong advocate for law enforcement.

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Speaker 3: Hanging judge crow like hanging people or what.

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Speaker 6: Would Yeah, it was a comedy type song friend of

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Speaker 6: mine route.

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Speaker 1: It was interesting him and Judge Crowe speak so openly,

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Speaker 1: candidly about his reputation a linking judge or hanging judge.

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Speaker 1: I he didn't really have any awareness of what he

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Speaker 1: was saying. Now here we are really talking about the

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Speaker 1: case that was you know, you know, steeped and racism

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Speaker 1: and all white jewelry. I'm the only black person then,

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Speaker 1: and he, you know, taking pride in being you know,

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Speaker 1: the lyngend judge and what I'm saying that you know,

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Speaker 1: I didn't get I didn't receive a fair trial. There

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Speaker 1: was no way I can receive a fair trial with

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Speaker 1: the team that they are symbol. I'm talking about the judge,

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Speaker 1: the prosecutor, not just in my case, but you know

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Speaker 1: in other guy's cases. And that's the problem with the system.

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Speaker 1: It's not the constitution, it's not the the statutes. All

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Speaker 1: those things. If applied properly, I think you can get

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Speaker 1: close to, uh, what justice really is. It's human beings

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Speaker 1: that that that that prevent that process from happening. You know,

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Speaker 1: when Colin Kaipernac took a knee. All those people was,

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Speaker 1: you know, so up in arms and bout it. Those

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Speaker 1: are very very people who sit on juries who you know,

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Speaker 1: don't you require any evidence to sensusbody is a death.

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Speaker 1: So it's not that the system itself is broken. I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about the Constitution and how it was written. That

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Speaker 1: was the ideal, though no ideals are just abstractions. In

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Speaker 1: two human beings actually do the thing that they say

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Speaker 1: that they carry through. I think Seth Tiger and all

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Speaker 1: of them, not just with my case, but with all

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Speaker 1: the cases that I'm not coming back to bear will

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Speaker 1: say something about their collective legacy what they did over

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Speaker 1: the past three decades of running the Hamilton County Prosecutor's office.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think the legacy would we want to

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Speaker 1: racism towards black men in particular and putting people on

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Speaker 1: death row, you know, I think that would be the

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Speaker 1: legacy of Ahimer County prosecuting in the office.

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Speaker 3: I had hoped the prosecutors in Keith's case, Seth Tiger,

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Speaker 3: Bill Anderson, and Special Prosecutor Mark Petemeyer, would have agreed

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Speaker 3: at some point to speak with me, but they never did.

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Speaker 3: They weren't the only ones. Keith's federal defenders who have

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Speaker 3: been representing him for the last several years were helpful

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Speaker 3: by providing me some documents and answering some questions via

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Speaker 3: email and over the phone, But in terms of sitting

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Speaker 3: down for an interview, no, it never happened. And I'm

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Speaker 3: sure they're busy. It's no secret that public defenders are

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Speaker 3: overworked with heavy caseloads. But still it's strange. In fact,

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Speaker 3: it's the first time in all of my years dealing

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Speaker 3: with something like this. I mean, attorneys usually jump at

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Speaker 3: the chance to defend their client from time to time.

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Speaker 3: I would ask Keith about it, and naturally he'd get angry.

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Speaker 3: He suspected they didn't want to be interviewed because they

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Speaker 3: weren't actually doing anything on the case, and admitting that

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Speaker 3: out loud might not look great for them. It's something

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Speaker 3: he's actually called them out on in the past.

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Speaker 1: I think you wanted now my time. This is four

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Speaker 1: years out, four years ago. I said. Now, I don't

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Speaker 1: blame you for doing that, but I want you to

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Speaker 1: know how I feel the body. I feel like this

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Speaker 1: is a legal leging that I'm undergoing, and that you

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Speaker 1: are just as responsible putting a noose around my neck

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Speaker 1: as the people who are kid to hang me for

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Speaker 1: a tree.

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Speaker 3: As of early twenty twenty three, there is nothing officially

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Speaker 3: happening in Keith's case, and his execution date is just

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Speaker 3: seven months away. Back in twenty fifteen, the Sixth Circuit

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Speaker 3: upheld the lower Court's decision, keeping Keith's conviction and death

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Speaker 3: sentence in place. In April of twenty sixteen, the US

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court refused to hear Keith's case. In twenty seventeen

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Speaker 3: and twenty eighteen, motions for relief were filed, but all

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Speaker 3: were denied. Then, in December of twenty eight teen, Keith's

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Speaker 3: execution date.

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Speaker 2: Was set by the way.

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Speaker 3: It was Special Prosecutor Mark Petemeyer who asked the court

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Speaker 3: to set the date. Fast forward to March of twenty twenty,

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Speaker 3: and the world comes to a screeching halt. COVID nineteen

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Speaker 3: hits were thrust into a pandemic, and stay at home

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Speaker 3: orders are issued. Just days into the official lockdown, Keith

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Speaker 3: is interviewed by Mother Jones, where he shares some tips

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Speaker 3: on how to survive in isolation after his At that point,

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Speaker 3: twenty seven years of living in solitary confinement. The article

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Speaker 3: gets the attention of many, which causes a chain reaction

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Speaker 3: resulting in a lot of new support for Keith.

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Speaker 7: I'm Brian Jackson. I am a musician.

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Speaker 8: I'm one half the duo of Gil Scott Heron and

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Speaker 8: Brian Jackson. We recorded out eight or nine albums together

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Speaker 8: in the seventies. Our focus was on consciousness, on social consciousness,

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Speaker 8: and we basically tried to emulate patterns that that we

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Speaker 8: you know, that that we understood from some of our

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Speaker 8: greatest influences, people like James Baldwin, people like Langston Hughes,

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Speaker 8: musical heroes like John Coltrane and Billie Holliday and Miles Davis.

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Speaker 8: Initially the concept was to to try and and market

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Speaker 8: our ideas the way Wall Street marketed burgers, you know,

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Speaker 8: so to use popular music of the day, which was

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Speaker 8: was our music, which was black music, to to market

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Speaker 8: instead of burgers to market.

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Speaker 7: Revolutionary thought.

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Speaker 3: After Brian's wife reads the Mother Jones article, she he

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Speaker 3: gets Keith's book Condemned and tells Brian he must read it.

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Speaker 3: But Brian's not ready. The country's in turmoil, and it's

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Speaker 3: not just because of the pandemic. NBC Nightly News reports.

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Speaker 9: In Minneapolis tonight, tensions are high as four police officers

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Speaker 9: have been fired after a man was pinned to the

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Speaker 9: ground and died.

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Speaker 5: The incident was caught on camera.

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Speaker 3: May twenty twenty, George Floyd is murdered by Minneapolis police

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Speaker 3: officer Derek Chauvin, and people have taken to the streets

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Speaker 3: in protest about yet another unarmed black man killed by police.

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Speaker 7: That's the lego.

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Speaker 8: Just overwhelmed by everything, and I said, I'm going to

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Speaker 8: read it, but I need, you know, I need some time.

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Speaker 7: And she said, no, you have to read this now.

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Speaker 8: Twenty four hours later, I put the book on the

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Speaker 8: table and I looked at her and I said, we

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Speaker 8: have to do something.

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Speaker 3: When Brian and Keith finally speak, their connection is undeniable,

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Speaker 3: and it's not just their shared love of jazz that

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Speaker 3: solidifies it.

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Speaker 8: And I hit it off like immediately, immediately, as though

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Speaker 8: we had been best friends for twenty years already. It

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Speaker 8: was almost as if we had some bond that was

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Speaker 8: just waiting to be recognized.

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Speaker 3: Brian decides he wants to do a podcast and he

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Speaker 3: wants Keith to be.

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Speaker 2: His co host.

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Speaker 7: Hi I'm Brian Jackson.

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Speaker 8: This podcast is about music, justice and everything in between.

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Speaker 7: This is Pieces of a Man.

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Speaker 8: Thank you Keith, and I just want to say how

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Speaker 8: happy I am that we finally got this podcast off

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Speaker 8: the ground. Are you doing I'm doing good, brother, happy

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Speaker 8: have you here to help me co host this first

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Speaker 8: episode of Pieces of a Man. So why don't we

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Speaker 8: get right on into ith.

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Speaker 2: H What are some of the topics that you discuss.

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Speaker 8: I think one of my favorite episodes has to do

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Speaker 8: with agency, and it's because it's something that we all

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Speaker 8: wrestle with, uh in this in this time period, in

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Speaker 8: this in this where we are right now in our

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Speaker 8: in our history, and we've come to depend on so

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Speaker 8: many agents to do the things that that we once

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Speaker 8: had to do for ourselves.

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Speaker 7: You know. We we've allowed the.

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Speaker 8: Media to to to tell us how to think about

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Speaker 8: something worse, to tell us how to feel about things.

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Speaker 8: We allow people to decide what we will, we will eat,

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Speaker 8: we will, We allow corporations to tell us what we

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Speaker 8: should uh, how we should communicate. We we really have

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Speaker 8: given the majority of our of our free free will

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Speaker 8: over to others. And so when we get in trouble

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Speaker 8: or when we are unhappy. We expect someone to come

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Speaker 8: along and fix that, and in reality, no one's going

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Speaker 8: to come.

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Speaker 7: No one's going to come and fix that.

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Speaker 8: No one's going to come and tell you how to

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Speaker 8: find fulfillment in your life. And I think this is

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Speaker 8: Keith being in the situation that he was in uh

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Speaker 8: And and having no one there to do anything on

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Speaker 8: his behalf, you know. I think he got to the

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Speaker 8: realization that it was something that he had to do himself.

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Speaker 8: And first of all, you have to decide, and one

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Speaker 8: of the biggest decisions that he made was, I want

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Speaker 8: to be able to touch my family. I want to

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Speaker 8: be able to touch the people I love. I want

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Speaker 8: to be able to give them hugs and kisses, you know,

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Speaker 8: I want to be able to hold their hands. And

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Speaker 8: this is something that that the prison system was not

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Speaker 8: allowing him to do. And he protests, he protested, he petitioned,

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Speaker 8: he did everything that he possibly could, and none of

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Speaker 8: those things had worked. And finally he decided that he

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Speaker 8: would go on a hunger strike, and within twelve days,

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Speaker 8: the decision was made to allow the inmates to to

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Speaker 8: have contact, you know, to have full contact visits with

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Speaker 8: their with their family members. Something that had taken years,

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Speaker 8: was never accomplished, and he decided, well, I'm going to

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Speaker 8: take this last step. I'm going to I'm going to

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Speaker 8: go this extra mile. And he was successful. And from

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Speaker 8: that we learned that when you take things upon yourself,

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Speaker 8: when you take your happiness and your fulfillment in life

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Speaker 8: upon yourself, you know that it's it's the it's the

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Speaker 8: best thing that you can it's the best thing that

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Speaker 8: you can do. Keith is a well read man. He's

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Speaker 8: He's spent most of that time in prison reading. There

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Speaker 8: are probably few degreed individuals out here in the world

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Speaker 8: who have studied as much as he has. He's used

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Speaker 8: his time wisely, and it was a decision. It was

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Speaker 8: a conscious decision on his part to do so. He's

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Speaker 8: filled his life with knowledge and beauty through music and

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Speaker 8: poetry and art. He's done everything he can to make

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Speaker 8: his existence worthwhile, no matter where that existence happens to

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Speaker 8: be physically located. And I admire him for that. You know,

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Speaker 8: he also has a wicked sense of humor. He says,

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Speaker 8: one of the funniest people that that I've ever met.

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Speaker 8: And again, you know, just I sit back in awe

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Speaker 8: sometimes and wonder how anyone in that situation could could

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Speaker 8: have a sense of humor about anything.

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Speaker 7: And yet this was his decision.

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Speaker 8: It was his decision that he was going to value

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Speaker 8: in his life if no one around him valued his life. Wow, sorry, Yeah,

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Speaker 8: that if no one was going to put value, no

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Speaker 8: one around him was going to put value in his life,

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Speaker 8: that he himself would put value in his life. To me,

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Speaker 8: that is the lesson that I learned from Keith.

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Speaker 3: I ask Brian why he believes in Keith's innocence.

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Speaker 8: I think sometimes innocence is the wrong word, you know,

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Speaker 8: because there's innocent and there's not guilty, you know. And

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Speaker 8: I feel like I don't think any of us who

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Speaker 8: would have been in a situation like that are innocent. Okay,

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Speaker 8: you know, because you're in jail, you know things happen,

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Speaker 8: you see things that happen. You know, there's no way

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Speaker 8: you can be innocent. But what you can be is

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Speaker 8: not guilty, you know. And I believe that Keith is

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Speaker 8: not guilty. Yeah, I don't believe that he committed any

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Speaker 8: of the crimes that he was charged with.

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Speaker 7: He wanted to go to trial because he was naive,

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Speaker 7: he was young.

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Speaker 8: He believed in the American justice system, and he was

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Speaker 8: punished for that.

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Speaker 3: What are your feelings about the fact that Keith's execution

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Speaker 3: data is literally less than a year away.

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Speaker 8: You know, it's hard to think that, you know that

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Speaker 8: if all else fails, that Keith will be put to death.

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Speaker 8: I just you know, I none of us wants to

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Speaker 8: think about that.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 8: I'm optimistic, you know, but I'm also quite still rooted

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Speaker 8: in the reality that there is a legal paper somewhere

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Speaker 8: saying that on November sixteenth, twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 7: You know, this.

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Speaker 8: Act is supposed to be carried out. This is no

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Speaker 8: way to handle human beings for whatever they did, or

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Speaker 8: for whatever you think that they did, to kill someone,

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Speaker 8: that's not an acceptable form of punishment in the twenty

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Speaker 8: first century. We're not barbarians, or are we?

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Speaker 3: Have you allowed yourself to go there to imagine?

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Speaker 8: I just know that if it where to happen, I

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Speaker 8: would have to be there, and I cannot imagine my

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Speaker 8: life after that day. I really don't know how I

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Speaker 8: could live. How I could you know, go on, we

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Speaker 8: obviously we all would, you know, but not in a

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Speaker 8: good way. Not in a good way. I'm kind of

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Speaker 8: like getting over overcome again, you know, with emotion, and yeah,

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Speaker 8: it's a it's a dire situation. It's it's a you know,

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Speaker 8: it's a situation. It shouldn't happen. It shouldn't have happened,

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Speaker 8: and there are a lot of people who were responsible

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Speaker 8: for it happening. Seems that Keith is the one paying

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Speaker 8: the price for it. We just need a little time

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Speaker 8: to sort it all out. I hope we get that time.

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Speaker 3: I know that you talk to Keith all the time.

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Speaker 3: But if there's anything that you could say to Keith

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Speaker 3: that you'd want him to know that you haven't said, or.

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Speaker 8: I would say that you know that I think that Keith,

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Speaker 8: I think you were one of the freest people I've

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Speaker 8: ever met. You're freeer than a lot of us, You're

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Speaker 8: free than the people who put you there.

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Speaker 3: So how did you first learn about Keith lamar So?

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Speaker 4: In the department where I'm right now, my neighbor here

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Speaker 4: was Brian Jackson.

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Speaker 3: That's Albert Marquess, pianist, composer and activist. He's originally from Catalonia, Spain.

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Speaker 4: And during the Black Lives Matter of protest we had

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Speaker 4: many conversations and one of the ones that we had

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Speaker 4: was what if we protest before they killed somebody, not after.

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Speaker 3: I speak with Albert over Zoom.

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Speaker 4: My love for music, I mean, it's really my love

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Speaker 4: for jazz and for Black American music. It just started

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Speaker 4: when I was probably eleven twelve years old, and the

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Speaker 4: specific element of improvisation is really what not only blew

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Speaker 4: my mind, but I think helped me to approach live

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Speaker 4: in general. I just loved it as an attitude towards

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Speaker 4: being on this planet.

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Speaker 3: For the last six years, Albert has been teaching music

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Speaker 3: at a New York City public middle and high school

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Speaker 3: called the Institute for Collaborative Education.

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Speaker 4: It was created by a social worker around twenty five

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Speaker 4: years ago. We basically use music as a tool to

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Speaker 4: help people who are in difficult situations.

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Speaker 3: When you first started talking with Keith, what did he

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Speaker 3: say about his case?

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Speaker 4: Let me say before I answer that that I'm against

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Speaker 4: death penalty in all cases, even when people are guilty.

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Speaker 4: I'm against solitary confinement in all cases, even when people

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Speaker 4: are guilty. It's both are a form of torture. I

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Speaker 4: think it's the UN says that more than I think.

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Speaker 4: It's twenty seven days in solitary confinement will cause irreparable

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Speaker 4: brain damage. So he has been there twenty eight years

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Speaker 4: about his case. Keith was a great candidate to be

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Speaker 4: blamed because who would care about a black kid from

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Speaker 4: Cleveland that had no support, that was already there for murder,

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Speaker 4: Who would defend him, who was going to show up

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Speaker 4: to denounce what.

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Speaker 5: They were doing to him. It was a great target.

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Speaker 4: That's what I think that happened.

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Speaker 3: Motivated to do something to help, Albert gets an idea

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Speaker 3: a benefit concert for Keith, and then it.

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Speaker 4: All started with the.

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Speaker 5: Protests.

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Speaker 4: On August twenty twenty at Grand Army Pleasant in the

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Speaker 4: middle of Brooklyn, with that permits of any kind, twenty

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Speaker 4: five musicians. I convince them to play for free, with

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Speaker 4: a lot of supporter from a lot of people that

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Speaker 4: helped us to make it happen, and then we played

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Speaker 4: for three hours in the middle of all the protests.

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Speaker 4: So that's really how it started.

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Speaker 3: And Albert doesn't stop there.

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Speaker 4: So I tried to take the slogan amplify voices as

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Speaker 4: literally as possible.

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Speaker 3: He wants people to hear from Keith directly.

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Speaker 4: And what we do is that through phone calls, we

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Speaker 4: provide the stage to the microphone for him to explain,

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Speaker 4: to explain by himself in his own words, what has

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Speaker 4: happened and what is happening to him.

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Speaker 3: Here is a clip from the very first concert Albert

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Speaker 3: and Keith played together.

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Speaker 10: Draft, Repeep and How the current three about beautiful days

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Speaker 10: a different way, I.

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Speaker 1: But no.

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Speaker 10: Increase takes Everybody thanks it out for coming out for

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Speaker 10: Suffer Day.

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Speaker 3: From there, Albert decides to attempt the impossible to make

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Speaker 3: an album with Keith and nineteen musicians despite their many

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Speaker 3: obvious challenges. In twenty twenty two, the album Freedom for

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Speaker 3: named after the concert series, is released. Here's a short

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Speaker 3: clip from their song be Free.

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Speaker 10: This is how it all began. A confused pain, a

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Speaker 10: spot turned to a flank. Ten people die, not that live.

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Speaker 1: Somebody had to be plain, even though it can never

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Speaker 1: be explained how the twenty two thousand people of epit

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Speaker 1: were connected, not that they could be connected to a class.

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Speaker 10: This is what blocks the mind.

441
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: Finally, a corrap ter.

442
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 10: Kept the mouth.

443
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 4: This is the first album in history made by somebody

444
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 4: in death row. The album has Brian Jackson, who made

445
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 4: some of the most important albums in music history, mixing

446
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 4: spoken word and jazz. We have my mentor or Touro,

447
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 4: a pharaoh who has I don't know, seven eight grammars

448
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,239
Speaker 4: Latin jazz legend that has helped me a lot, so

449
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 4: many great people. I mean, there aren't that many politicized

450
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 4: jazz musicians, so almost all of them are there.

451
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 2: What do you want people to know about Keith?

452
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 4: Basically, A lot of people ask me to convince them

453
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 4: about his innocence.

454
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 10: I am going to do that.

455
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 4: He's not perfect. He made mistakes. Listen to kid, Listen

456
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 4: to his own story. Because we can only kill people

457
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 4: when they are the humanized, when they are numbers, where

458
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 4: they are criminals, when they are monsters, if they make albums,

459
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 4: if they talk about their families and love and pain

460
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 4: and making mistakes in life. When we humanize them and

461
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 4: we see them as three D human beings, suddenly we

462
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 4: cannot just execute them, make them disappear forever without feeling anything.

463
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 3: About a year after Elbert and Brian Jackson begin their

464
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 3: friendship with Keith, someone from Keith's past comes back into

465
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 3: his life.

466
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:09,479
Speaker 5: I'm Desmond Howard.

467
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 3: Desmond Howard nineteen ninety one, Heisman Trophy winner and MVP

468
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 3: of Super Bowl thirty one. Today he's a football analyst

469
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 3: for ESPN, I speak with Desmond over Zoom.

470
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 11: Keith was one of those players who, as a young man,

471
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 11: he just had like this energy about him, smiling, you know, joking.

472
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 2: Back in fifth grade.

473
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 3: Desmond is the new kid on Keith's Saint Tim's peewee

474
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 3: football team.

475
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 11: Keith was a quarterback. He had these long limbs, you know,

476
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 11: but he can run. He was very athletic, and I mean,

477
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 11: you know, we were kids, but because I played so

478
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 11: much football now and I look back on it, he

479
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 11: was a real positive leader. He wasn't a guy who

480
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 11: was going to like get on you for no reason.

481
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 11: If a guy drops the ball or maybe fumbles the ball.

482
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 11: You know, he's not going to go up to a

483
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 11: guy and make him feel worse about it.

484
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 5: He's the guy that's gonna go.

485
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 11: Out there and try to pick you up and like, hey,

486
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 11: let's just get ready for the next place. That's kind

487
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 11: of like was his approach. That's what I remember about Keith.

488
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 3: How long did you and Keith play together?

489
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 11: So Keith and I played together for a few years,

490
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:30,719
Speaker 11: even after we lost contact. He's a guy who somehow,

491
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 11: one way or another would come across my mind, you know,

492
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 11: and ironically coincidentally, he actually became really good friends with

493
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 11: another good friend of mine who I grew up with,

494
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 11: who lived in my same neighborhood named Kenneth Wright.

495
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 3: You met ken Wright in episode five. Remember he's the

496
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 3: friend Keith jokingly referred to as his best friend, best dressed,

497
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 3: most intelligent. Could you ever have imagined that he would

498
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 3: end up in prison?

499
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 11: So I would say that because of the environment that

500
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 11: we all came from, it was not far fetched for

501
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 11: me to think that anybody, or at least that most

502
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 11: of the people who I came in contact with, whether

503
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 11: it was playing baseball, football, or basketball, if you were

504
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 11: from the inner City like we all were, was caught

505
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 11: up in some sort of bad situation and ended up

506
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 11: spending some time in prison. Because that was the path

507
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 11: that a lot of the young black males that I knew,

508
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 11: they were on that path, whether they were on the path,

509
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 11: either go to jail or you would hear.

510
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 5: That they were murdered.

511
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 11: Unfortunately, that's just the reality of the environment that we

512
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 11: ain't from, you know, and it's crazy to say it,

513
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 11: but I could have been caught up in some some shit,

514
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 11: you know. I don't know how I got out of

515
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 11: those situations, and I must have had someone looking over

516
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 11: me or I ain'tel on my shoulder that that evening.

517
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 11: But there were multiple occasions where things could have could

518
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 11: have turned left and I could have been caught up

519
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 11: in a situation that wouldn't have ended well for either

520
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 11: me or the other person.

521
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 3: It's not until many years later when Doesmond hears Keith's

522
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 3: name again, Ken tells him Keith is on death row

523
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 3: for killing five people during the Lucasville Uprising.

524
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 11: And was like, whoa, whoa Keith Lamar Keith I played

525
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 11: with at Saint Tham's. He's he's on death row, Like

526
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 11: are you serious?

527
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 5: For what? And it's just like unbelievable.

528
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 11: It's just it was something that I couldn't even wrap

529
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 11: my mind around, Like it can't be the same guy

530
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 11: who I played little league football with. Now I know

531
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 11: guys who were in prison. I've had family members in

532
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 11: prison for doing things out you know, the illegal things,

533
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 11: But I've never ever known anybody to be on death row.

534
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 5: And so when I heard that.

535
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 11: He was supposed to be the leader of a death squad,

536
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 11: I was thinking, like, how could this person?

537
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 5: Now, Like I said, none of us were angels.

538
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 11: You know, we did what we had to do when

539
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 11: we had to do whatever we had to do to

540
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 11: survive for the most part, But to be labeled as

541
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 11: the leader of a death squad, like I just never

542
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 11: would imagine keep having that type of like hate in

543
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 11: his heart, that he would be a leader of a

544
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 11: death squad. So my whole thought process was, how did

545
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 11: they come to this conclusion and what's the evidence?

546
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 3: In time, Desmond makes the trip to see Keith at

547
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 3: the Ohio State Penitentiary. It would be the first time

548
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 3: seeing each other since they were kids.

549
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 11: Visited someone in prison before, but never on death row.

550
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 11: So I didn't know what it would take. And I

551
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 11: was excited to see my old friend.

552
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 5: I really was.

553
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 11: And if you ever see the pictures that we took,

554
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 11: I was.

555
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 5: I got back home and I got to tell.

556
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 11: You, Leah, I was looking at the picture that I

557
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 11: took and I was conflicted because when you see it, like,

558
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 11: if you know me, I'm a person that has I

559
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 11: have a big personality as far as like smiling, I

560
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 11: smiled big, I laughed loud, I laughed hard. It's just

561
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 11: who I am. And so I'm visiting my old teammate

562
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 11: and I'm looking at this is my man, this is Keith,

563
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 11: you know, and so that's what the smile says. But

564
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 11: the predicament is it's completely opposite that. And since it's

565
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 11: completely opposite that, I'm like, damn, maybe I shouldn't have

566
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 11: been smiling so fucking hard, you know. Yeah, And I

567
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 11: was conflicted about that, I really was. But it just

568
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 11: shows you that that's what he brings out in me,

569
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 11: because that's what he is to me, even under those circumstances.

570
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 11: My man is chained to this table, he's on death road,

571
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 11: but when I see him, that's what comes out of

572
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 11: me because that's the energy I get from him. It

573
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 11: speaks to the true nature of our relationship and.

574
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 5: Who Keith is to me.

575
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 11: You know, my dad was very fond of Keith, and

576
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 11: I always look at my dad as a great judge

577
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 11: of character. He used to help Keith out, unbeknownst to me,

578
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 11: even sometimes financially, you know, get him a few dollars

579
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 11: here or there, and but that's.

580
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 5: Just how my dad is.

581
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 11: But he he wouldn't have done that for everybody or anybody,

582
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 11: and that just speaks to.

583
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 5: To how how he saw Keith too. When I went

584
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 5: to visit Keith.

585
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 11: He had mentioned that, yeah, take your dad, I owe him,

586
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 11: you know X amount of dollars.

587
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 5: These are like seven dollars.

588
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

589
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was like one of the first things he said.

590
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 5: He's funny that way. Mm.

591
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 11: It's tough, it is, it's really tough. The reason why

592
00:37:52,480 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 11: it's so hard, it's simply because it's not that I'm

593
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 11: saying I know what happened that the riot. It's not

594
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 11: that I'm saying Keith is innocent or guilty of anything

595
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:17,240
Speaker 11: that he was accused of. It's so rough, Leah, because

596
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 11: he did not get a fair trial. At the end

597
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 11: of the day, that's all anybody could ever ask for

598
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 11: in this judicial system is a fair trial. And because

599
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 11: the evidence is clearly there that things were withheld, he

600
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:42,240
Speaker 11: didn't get a fair trial.

601
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 5: That's what makes it.

602
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 11: So such a bitter pill to swallow, Leah. It really

603
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 11: is that they want to kill this man.

604
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 2: For Keith.

605
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 3: Twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three so far have

606
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 3: been busy between the ongoing Freedom First concerts being performed

607
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 3: around the world and the weekly book club sessions he

608
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 3: runs as part of his native Son's Literacy project. Keith

609
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 3: was also a guest speaker and recognized at the eighth

610
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 3: World Congress against the Death Penalty in Berlin. He was

611
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 3: a featured narrator for Samora Pinder Hughes's concert at Carnegie

612
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 3: Hall and contributed spoken word poetry for Mia Pearlman's multi

613
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 3: media sculpture at Michigan State University.

614
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 1: I've spent the past in a half decades than to

615
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: do something Iverer spoke with my life, not because I

616
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: thought it might get me out of prison, but just

617
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to waste my one and only life.

618
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 3: But says, the one thing that's been missing the last

619
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 3: several years has been a legal team actively fighting to

620
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 3: get him back into court. And then, unbelievably, as I'm

621
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 3: nearing the end of my research and conducting interviews, a

622
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 3: new attorney comes on board.

623
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 9: My name is Keegan Stephan.

624
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,760
Speaker 3: Keigan agrees to speak with me over Zoom.

625
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 9: I'm from Alaska, originally moved to New York to go

626
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 9: to undergrad. Went to undergrad for creative writing. I sort

627
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 9: of worked as a writer journalist for a while, got

628
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:38,439
Speaker 9: very involved in advocacy work, ultimately focused on racial justice

629
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 9: issues Black Lives Matter organizations in that capacity, and doing that,

630
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 9: decided that I wanted to go to law school.

631
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 5: I thought that was sort of the best way I

632
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:47,919
Speaker 5: could help out.

633
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 3: While in law school, Keegan works with the Innocence Project. Eventually,

634
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 3: he is hired as an associate at belldoc Levigne and Hoffman,

635
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,720
Speaker 3: a civil rights boutique law firm in New York City,

636
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,720
Speaker 3: where he works today. The firm has handled some pretty

637
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:09,240
Speaker 3: famous cases, like the exoneration of Reuben Hurricane Carter.

638
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 9: Another big case that the firm handled was representing four

639
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 9: of the Central Park Five, the people who were wrongfully

640
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 9: convicted of the Central Park jogger rape case, made famous

641
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 9: by the fact that Donald Trump took out a whole

642
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 9: page ad in the New York Times calling for their execution.

643
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 9: Turns out they were innocent. This firm also litigated the

644
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 9: Stop in Friss case, which was the case that ultimately

645
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 9: held that the New York City Police Department stopping for

646
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 9: his program was a violation of the equal Protection class.

647
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 3: But It's In late twenty twenty two, while playing a

648
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 3: pickup game of basketball, Keegan learns about Keith.

649
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 9: One of the people who plays is one of Keith

650
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,720
Speaker 9: Lamar's primary non legal advocates. Wally White, himself a pretty

651
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 9: exceptional individual hosts podcast about mental health issues in the

652
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 9: black community, whially gave me a copy of Keith's book.

653
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 9: I then started researching his case, read the court decisions,

654
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 9: and you know, just reading the state Supreme Court decision

655
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 9: and the federal habeas decision, it was very clear to

656
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,720
Speaker 9: me that at minimum, he did not get a fair trial,

657
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 9: that there were tons of improprieties. And speaking with him

658
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 9: and speaking with his advocacy team and other sort of

659
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 9: people in the know legally in Ohio, it seems pretty

660
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 9: clear to me that he is innocent. So I said

661
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 9: I would be happy to help out.

662
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 3: To be clear, Keegan is at the very beginning of

663
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 3: taking on Keith's case. He hasn't even received all of

664
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 3: the files from Keith's federal defenders yet. But because this

665
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 3: is the first time I am able to speak with

666
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 3: an attorney who is actually representing Keith, I decide to

667
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 3: try and get at least a few of my questions answered.

668
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 3: Have you seen a list of what was actually turned

669
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 3: over from the prosecution to the defense? Is there a

670
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,439
Speaker 3: log of what exactly was turned over?

671
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 5: Not that I'm aware of.

672
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely haven't seen that.

673
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 3: So and as we know that there's no DNA evidence

674
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 3: linking Keith to any of the crimes that he was

675
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 3: convicted of, or anyone, like there's no physical evidence tying

676
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 3: any of the people who were convicted to any of

677
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 3: the victims. I had heard somewhere along the way that

678
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 3: when Keith and the three hundred men who were out

679
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 3: on the yard were brought inside the gym and then

680
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 3: put in the K block cells, that their clothes were

681
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 3: all put in a big heap and they were eventually burned.

682
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 3: And that's destroying evidence, right.

683
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, it certainly doesn't seem like a proper investigation to

684
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 9: burn a bunch of potential evidence. I've heard that story

685
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 9: as well, and that story only mentions the clothing of

686
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 9: the people who survived. I want to pull out that

687
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 9: thread a little bit more. It doesn't seem out of

688
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 9: the question to me that maybe some of the clothing

689
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 9: of some of the victims still exists somewhere, and if

690
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 9: it does, that should be DNA testing.

691
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 3: So you know, there are at least two other guys

692
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 3: who were beaten, basically left for dead, but survived. There

693
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 3: was a guy named Itchie Walker, and then this guy

694
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 3: Andre Stockton, and I interviewed Andre Stockton. He was in

695
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 3: a coma for two weeks. After I asked him what

696
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 3: he remembered, he said that he remembers Keith being there.

697
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 3: Why do you think if Keith was the leader of

698
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 3: this death squad, why would they give him a pass

699
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 3: on Itchy Walker and Andre Stockton.

700
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 9: It doesn't make sense, particularly from the prosecutor's perspective. If

701
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:46,439
Speaker 9: you have two living witnesses who were victims, they could

702
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 9: have had these people come in and testify that he was,

703
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 9: you know, the leader of the death squad, and that

704
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 9: would have very much tied together and supported their case.

705
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 9: It's hard to imagine stronger evidence than that. It's definitely

706
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,760
Speaker 9: strong than the people who were not involved or victims,

707
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 9: and so that seems suspicious.

708
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 3: Keigan says what needs to happen now is a full

709
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 3: reinvestigation into Keith's case in the hopes that they will

710
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:18,399
Speaker 3: uncover some newly discovered evidence that could get them back

711
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 3: into state court. But the voluminous file is going to

712
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 3: take an army of people to go through it all.

713
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 3: So Keegan is in the process of seeking the help

714
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 3: of others like law school clinics and large firms, pro

715
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 3: bono departments.

716
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:36,280
Speaker 2: How do you feel about your chances?

717
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 9: I and every other person remotely close to this case,

718
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 9: including many attorneys who know about it, believe that our

719
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 9: reinvestigation will uncover a lot of newly discovered evidence that

720
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 9: will warrant a new trial.

721
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 3: And Keith's execution data set for November sixteenth, twenty twenty three.

722
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 3: There is an unofficial moratorium in the state on executions.

723
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,439
Speaker 3: But how does that affect you or not affect your plan?

724
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 3: You're taking that date as a real date, right, like

725
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 3: you're finding the clock at this point, right.

726
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 9: You know what matters is what matters to Keith, and

727
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 9: he certainly doesn't see that data as fake. I also

728
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 9: don't really know what an unofficial moratorium is. That sounds

729
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 9: pretty meaningless to me. So yeah, we're acting with you know,

730
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:23,760
Speaker 9: as much urgency as we can.

731
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,280
Speaker 3: A little over a month after my interview with Keegan,

732
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,919
Speaker 3: a potential bombshell drops into my inbox. I am sent

733
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 3: a two thousand and seven affidavit written by Howard Hudson,

734
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 3: retired staff lieutenant from the Ohio State Highway Patrol. He

735
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 3: testified at Keith's nineteen ninety five trial that there was

736
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 3: no physical evidence that came back linked to anybody. Well,

737
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 3: in mister Hudson's affidavit, he had a bit more to

738
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 3: say on this matter. Quote, all physical evidence tangible items

739
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 3: collected during the investigation of the Lucasville disturbance, insofar as

740
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 3: not presented as evidence in a criminal prosecution, was destroyed

741
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:16,760
Speaker 3: per the authorization of the lead prosecutor and myself. Okay,

742
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 3: so Howard Hudson said he and the lead prosecutor. I mean,

743
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 3: is he talking about Mark Petemeyer because pete Meyer was

744
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 3: the lead slash special prosecutor on the Lucasville cases. Anyway,

745
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 3: Hudson said he and the lead prosecutor gave the go

746
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 3: ahead to have physical evidence destroyed. Now we don't know

747
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 3: when or what evidence exactly was destroyed, but that seems

748
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 3: like quite an admission. Keith never knew about the affidavit

749
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 3: until now, but he says he's not completely surprised by it.

750
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 3: He firmly believes there's so much more out there like it,

751
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,800
Speaker 3: and once Keegan and the new team take a long,

752
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 3: hard look at his case, they will discover what is

753
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 3: needed to get him back into court and a chance

754
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 3: at a new trial.

755
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: That's really the final piece that I need. Somebody who

756
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: prepared to dosy on my case, and like Golfin, you

757
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: know how you take your car and you do the

758
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,919
Speaker 1: diagnostic and you can see all the things that's wrong

759
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: with your car. I'm hoping that somebody is able to

760
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: do that on my legal situation, because you know, that's

761
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: the only way really to fix this.

762
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 3: It's hard to believe, but the time has come. This

763
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 3: is our last episode. I actually didn't want to write it.

764
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 3: I had some kind of mental block about putting an

765
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 3: end to the season, an end to Keith's story, an

766
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:52,800
Speaker 3: end of any kind to.

767
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 2: It at all.

768
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 3: What started as a reinvestigation morphed into something very different.

769
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 3: Was it perfect reporting? No, how could it be. I

770
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 3: didn't have access to the majority of the documents or

771
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 3: certain people, like the prosecutors. But in the course of

772
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 3: these eleven months and almost ninety hours of interviews, I've

773
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 3: learned a lot about Lucasville, the uprising, Keith and his case.

774
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,320
Speaker 3: I've also learned a lot about myself.

775
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 12: Yeah, so I don't even really know how to I'm

776
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 12: gonna start crying. I don't even really know how to

777
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 12: ask you this, because so I'm writing the last episode

778
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 12: this this conversation will go into the last episode November sixteenth.

779
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 12: What do you think when you think about that date approach.

780
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 1: I don't think about that day a lot, and I

781
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: know it's there, but I don't. I don't look at

782
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 1: it as like a destination that I have a one

783
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 1: day arrived. Look that my life is a process which

784
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: requires your full attention right here in the moment. Amy

785
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: was compiling some information for someone the other day and

786
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 1: I had to kind of go through all the things

787
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 1: that we have accomplished over the past several years, and

788
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: it's a lot. And I told her that she was

789
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: starting to share that with me. Like Amy, I don't

790
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: want to hear about it. I don't want to know

791
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 1: how much we've done. I'm just want to focus right

792
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: here on this moment. I think if I started thinking

793
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: about November sixteenth, somehow I'm bleeding to what I'm doing

794
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 1: and take away from the urgency. Because I live with

795
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: the reality that, you know, I can die the night

796
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: in my sleep. All of us can, so I don't

797
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,240
Speaker 1: really you know, not putting my head in the sand.

798
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: The opposite of that, I'm bringing as much as I

799
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: Usta can to the moment every day I can possibly do.

800
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: Board off destly murdered by these people. I take them

801
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 1: that they were the history of this country. They're fully

802
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: capable of carrying, you know, execution out so I know

803
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: all those things. So there's nothing really to think about

804
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 1: with that respect. So you know, I'll deal with that

805
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: when I get there. My focus is or is centered

806
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: on right now. Time between now and then we'll move.

807
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:52,399
Speaker 1: Fasts have gone by, you know, rather quickly. So it's

808
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:54,879
Speaker 1: and when that time comes and that one day find

809
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,799
Speaker 1: myself stop to a journey, it won't be because I

810
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:02,479
Speaker 1: didn't do everything in my power. And you know that's

811
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:04,800
Speaker 1: when I focus on to make sure I do everything

812
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 1: I can possibly do, so when if that time comes,

813
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: I can uh uh, don't out the shadow of a

814
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 1: doubt that I Q f Lamar have done everything to

815
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: stand up and represent this, this one and only life

816
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: that I've been given. It's just life that I have.

817
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,320
Speaker 1: I fought for it that I you know, I stood

818
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: up and I you know represented it to the best

819
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 1: of my ability, and and and all the things that

820
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: Amy was trying to tell me about those things were

821
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:44,759
Speaker 1: standing in my place. It for me. You know another thing.

822
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:48,720
Speaker 1: Over the years, obviously, there's been quite a few people,

823
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: I think, and I show exactly a hundred or a

824
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,359
Speaker 1: couple of hundred people who have been exonerating. I forget

825
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 1: there's that number, but it's a significant amount of people

826
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,839
Speaker 1: who have been exonerating. I think I might one day

827
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 1: join you know, that list of people. But as I

828
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 1: as I, you know, go through my day that day,

829
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:15,240
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think about that so much in terms

830
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: of the outcome. But what I do think about is

831
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 1: the other people who I've seen in this position, and

832
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:26,280
Speaker 1: how after thirty years of rome full conviction and everything

833
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 1: that entails, that they are so meek and so accommodating,

834
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:40,240
Speaker 1: so forgiving people. I don't want these people to think

835
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: that what they have done to me, not to mention

836
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 1: what they intend to do somehow, Okay with me, Okay,

837
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 1: we'll keep from Marge not angry about this shit. Not

838
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 1: just the fact that y'all have given me an execution date,

839
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: but the ship, all the stuff y'all have done to

840
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 1: me up until this point. It's the ironic thing about

841
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 1: my situation, Lid that I would have gotten off easier

842
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: had I killed five people that's the kind of system

843
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 1: that we operate under. When I went back from my

844
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 1: everydentiary here in two thousand and seven, that Piker was

845
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 1: called put on the standing recess. He was at the

846
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: Elevator Bank and some of my friends were there, and

847
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 1: he was talking to somebody on the phone. He said, Man,

848
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 1: I can't he looked good. Man, I can't believe it,

849
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: you know, like you're a shock, like shit he had

850
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: them and that shit pretty good. You know, he looked good.

851
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 1: I got to give him that. He said something like that,

852
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,399
Speaker 1: and to be honest with you, sowing am I throwing

853
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: am I? That's part of the reason why I don't

854
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 1: start to think about it, because you know, i'd just be,

855
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: you know, crying all the time. I didn't know I

856
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: had this in me. I didn't know it. I didn't

857
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 1: know I was this morning. I didn't know it. I

858
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: didn't know it. And I would have never known that

859
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,399
Speaker 1: if I took that deal. I would never found that out,

860
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: never knew how amazing this life is. That I took

861
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 1: taken that deal and I did the thing that all

862
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 1: of us been given to do over and over again.

863
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 1: If you pour it, you black, you know, take the

864
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: easy way out. So I'm just a shot Mark Pete

865
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 1: myer self teaser, you know what I mean. But if

866
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,399
Speaker 1: and when my time comes, they would know that how

867
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 1: I feel about them in this bullshit system and not

868
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 1: gonna you know, play the meet role, you know, the

869
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: you know, the forgiving slaves. Won't be able to go

870
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,839
Speaker 1: home and put your kids in the bed because you're

871
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 1: gonna have to murder me, have to murder somebody when

872
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:50,800
Speaker 1: that day comes. That's on everything I love, on everything

873
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 1: I love, You're gonna have to murder me. You there.

874
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm still here with Keegan and the new team.

875
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 3: There's got to be some hope there, right.

876
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 1: It's a lot of hope. So the hope is, like

877
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 1: I said, it's not on the outcome, it's you know,

878
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,840
Speaker 1: on the things that we have done and achieved along

879
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:23,959
Speaker 1: the way. All these things provide the hope. There's reason

880
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 1: to hope. Of course, your house on fire is one

881
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 1: thing to know that someone has called nine one one.

882
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,800
Speaker 1: It's another thing is to hit sirens. All that contributes

883
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 1: to your hope that everything that you love, everything that

884
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 1: you work for, everything that you are will you know,

885
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 1: will be saved. But it's another thing to see the

886
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 1: holes being hooked up to the water hydrant, but then

887
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:52,439
Speaker 1: see the water coming out of the holes and see

888
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: the water, you know, it stinks in the fire. I

889
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: hear the fire trucks coming, I know the call has

890
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 1: been made. I can hear the fire drugs come me,

891
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: but they haven't ariety that. Even while I'm hopeful, while

892
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 1: I'm also looking at my everything that I love burned down,

893
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 1: I'm anxious about, you know, about the whole thing. I

894
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 1: just say that to say that, you know, I'm in

895
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 1: proximity to the help that I need, the help that

896
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: I've been you know, praying and open for for so

897
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 1: many years. But until that, you know, that holds hop

898
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:27,919
Speaker 1: to that that hydrant and that water start issuing force,

899
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: that justice start issuing force. You know, I'm gonna try to,

900
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 1: you know, contain myself.

901
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I.

902
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 3: Mean, so, you know, this will be our official, our official,

903
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 3: last conversation. I would hope that we could keep the

904
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 3: conversation going. I would like to keep talking.

905
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 1: Well, glad sure that we're I feel similar. You have

906
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: one minute remaining.

907
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 3: I would like to thank everyone who participated this season.

908
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 3: There are too many people to name here, but thank you.

909
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 3: And I would especially like to thank Keith. This wasn't

910
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 3: an easy story to tell, and clearly I couldn't have

911
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 3: done it without you all. I am grateful for your time, candor, patience,

912
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 3: generosity and graciousness.

913
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 10: Whatever you had.

914
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 1: A time to talk again, Let's talk again.

915
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not saying goodbye. I'm not saying goodbye.

916
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 6: This is it.

917
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 2: Okay, this is until we until we speak again. How

918
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 2: about that?

919
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay, yeah, so we speak again. Yeah that sounds better. Yeah. Yeah.

920
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 3: For updates on Keith's story, please visit at The Real

921
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 3: Killer podcast on Instagram. The Real Killer is a production

922
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 3: of AYR Media and iHeartRadio, hosted by me Leah Rothman.

923
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 3: Executive producers Leah Rothman and Elisa Rosen for AYR Media.

924
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 3: Written by Leah Rothman, Executive producer Paulina Williams, Senior Associate

925
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 3: producer Jill Pusheznik. Coordinators George Famm and Melina Krajevsky. Editing

926
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 3: and sound design by Cameron Taggy, mixed and mastered by

927
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 3: Cameron Taggi. Audio and engineering by Matt Jacobson. Studio engineering

928
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 3: by Jay Brannan Legal counsel for a y R Media.

929
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 3: Gianni Douglas, executive producer for iHeartRadio, Maya Howard,