1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: Hey, they're folks, say, real life Gilligan's Island is playing 2 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:09,719 Speaker 1: out in space right now. Two astronauts were supposed to 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: be in orbit eight days. As we speak, it's been 4 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: two months and still unclear on when they might come home. Folks, 5 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Rhodes. I'm 6 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: always and we're always fascinated by space stuff. We're always 7 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: in awe of it. But this time we were kind 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: of all scratching our heads and trying to figure out 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 1: what went wrong and when can they come home. 10 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 2: I'm still laughing at your Gilligan's Island reference three hour tour. 11 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: There's supposed to be an eight day tour. 12 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 3: But it turns possibly into an eight month too. 13 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, whoa, it seems indefinite and a lot of people 14 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: familiar with this story. But two astronauts went up in June, 15 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: supposed to be eight days orbiting. Something's wrong with the 16 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,480 Speaker 1: orbiter that they're in, the craft they're in, so they're 17 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: kind of stranded. 18 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, what I got was some thrusters weren't working, some 19 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 2: helium was leaking. I don't know what any of that means, 20 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: but none of it sounds good. And there's a question 21 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: as to whether or not that vehicle that they arrived 22 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 2: at the International Space Station in can actually take them 23 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 2: back to Earth safely. And so because there is a 24 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 2: question mark, and I'm sure the astronauts appreciate that scientists, astrophysicists, 25 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 2: folks at NASA, folks at Boeing are all making sure 26 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 2: that their safety is at the top of the list. 27 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: So how do they get back home in one piece? No, 28 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 2: you can't, there's not yet, and. 29 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 3: There's a long wait. 30 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: There is right now. 31 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 3: And it's cramped quarters, we should point out. 32 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 2: So the International Space Station, upon my big research that 33 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:43,199 Speaker 2: I've done this morning, is usually there to accommodate about 34 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 2: six people, six to seven at the most. Now there 35 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: are I believe nine people there. Wow, so there's some 36 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 2: sleeping quarter issues. They just got a supply truck, which 37 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 2: made me laugh. 38 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 3: It's not a truck, but they actually I was amazed. 39 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 2: They actually sense apply missions up to them. So they 40 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 2: needed some new clothes. I mean, this is all new 41 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 2: to me, but it's it sounds like a movie, but 42 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 2: it's happening in real time, in real life. 43 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: I didn't see that part about it. We've all been 44 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: there before on vacation or somebody's house. It's it's sleep 45 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: it's a four bedroom house. But seven people are we 46 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: going to figure this out? 47 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: Or how many times have you been on vacation and 48 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 2: you get called to go to work to like a 49 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 2: work event, and you don't have enough clothes, you. 50 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 3: Don't have enough underwear, you don't have enough socks. 51 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 2: That's happened. We're talking like a few days. This is 52 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:31,119 Speaker 2: like months and months. 53 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,239 Speaker 1: They have a couch, there's so many crash on the 54 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 1: no and they. 55 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 2: Don't have a washer or a dryer, so there's no laundry. 56 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 2: There's a lot of things going on. 57 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: I'm thinking a damn about their laundry right now. 58 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 3: They might care more than you think. I mean, it's 59 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 3: an issue. 60 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: Well, that's bringing into somebody. Clearly we need help understanding 61 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: what the hell is going on. So let's bring in 62 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: somebody who knows it. He's actually an astrophysicist. He's an astronomer, 63 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: a Smithsonian astronomer, Johnathan McDowell is with us now. So 64 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: we appreciate you helping us out with what's We tried 65 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: to go through the story a little bit, and a 66 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: lot of people are familiar with it, but can you 67 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: tell us, first of all, they plan for contingencies like 68 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: this or is this something that nobody necessarily had a 69 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: plan for in a scenario for well, I. 70 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 4: Think it's a bit of a surprise, but it's within 71 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 4: the scope of what you know. That's that's it is 72 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 4: all about what happens if this failure, what happens if 73 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 4: the next failure? And so so they're they're they're pretty 74 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 4: they go pretty deep into what do we do if 75 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 4: By the way, I just say, I I do love 76 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 4: the Gilligans Island comparison. I had not thought of that. 77 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 4: And it's perfect. 78 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: You can have it, you can use it. 79 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 4: Yea, yeah, so so uh so yeah, so so they 80 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 4: have this space ship, the Starliner, and you know, it's 81 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 4: had a bit of a rocky history. The the test 82 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 4: flights without a crew didn't go that brilliantly, and so 83 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 4: they were really hoping that this one would just be flawless. 84 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: But no, well, Jonathan, wait a second, you can't just 85 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: hope when we're talking talk about sending people up. You're 86 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: telling me this thing had enough issues, then maybe we 87 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: shouldn't have sent them up in that thing in the 88 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: first place. 89 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 4: No, No, I don't think so, I mean, I think 90 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 4: they thought they had solved the issues right and they 91 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 4: were wrong. But you know, they had done tests on 92 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 4: the ground. They had not, it turns out, fully understood 93 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 4: the issues with these thrusters. So let's talk about these thrusters, right, 94 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 4: is what they are. They're little rocket engines. They're not 95 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 4: the big rocket engines that the spaceship is going to 96 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 4: use to push itself out of orbit and land in 97 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 4: New Mexico. They're kind of like the steering wheel, right, 98 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 4: and so they helped turn the spacecraft in a particular direction. 99 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 4: And that's got to work right when you're coming home 100 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 4: because you can have the big thrusters. The big rocket 101 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 4: engines work fine, but if you're not pointed in the 102 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 4: right direction, that's not going to go well for you. 103 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 4: And so so these steering thrusters are really important. They're 104 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 4: also really important when you separate from the space station 105 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 4: and you're backing away. You don't want to bump in 106 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 4: to your friend's lab module or something like that. So 107 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 4: you really want these things to be working right. And 108 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 4: you know they have some what we call redundancy. They 109 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 4: have spares, right, and so you know they have I 110 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 4: don't know what, I can't remember. It's like twenty or 111 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 4: something frusters, and if you know, three or four of 112 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 4: them fail, okay, they can use other ones. But they're 113 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 4: just worried because they don't understand quite why the thrusters 114 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 4: have been behaving the way they have. So on the 115 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 4: way up, they were approaching the space station and everything 116 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 4: was going fine. And then as they started firing the 117 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 4: thrusts a lot, as they were steering their way in 118 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 4: to the docking port to the arrival place at the 119 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 4: space station, a couple of the thrusters stopped working and 120 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 4: things started going wrong, and so they had to do 121 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 4: some sort of fancy last minute adjustments to get in safely. 122 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 4: And and so you know, fine, so you look at 123 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 4: you do lots of tests, and so they've done tests 124 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 4: on the ground to fire these thrusters, and they're studying 125 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 4: a bit more detail what happens when you fire them 126 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 4: more than usual. It turns out that in the particular 127 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 4: configuration it's in. Yeah, if you fire them too much 128 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 4: too often, it overheats and bad things happen. And so 129 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 4: they got some kind of understanding, but they still don't 130 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 4: quite understand why it is that they're behaving exactly the 131 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,239 Speaker 4: way they see. They did some more tests on orbit. 132 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 4: They said, got okay, stay docked to the space station, 133 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 4: but give a little sprints on the thrusters. Check. Let's 134 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 4: check how they're behaving. They seem to be behaving just fine. Now, 135 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 4: even the ones, most of the ones that were broken before, 136 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 4: seem to be okay. And so the Boeing folks who 137 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 4: built the spaceship is safety as we think it's fine, 138 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 4: bring them home. Uh. And then some of the nast 139 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 4: engineers are going, yeah, but you know, we don't understand 140 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 4: why these these thrusters are acting up the way they are, 141 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 4: and so what if when we fire them, they, you know, 142 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 4: something else happens that that that hasn't happen before, and 143 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 4: we lose a whole bunch of them. That would be 144 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 4: really bad. It seems unlikely. But because you don't understand 145 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 4: what's going wrong. And here's the thing, if they didn't 146 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 4: have another way to come home, right, they would go like, yeah, fine, 147 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 4: well we don't quite understand what's going on, but it's 148 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 4: probably okay, so let's just bring them home. It should 149 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 4: be fine. But because they have this other. 150 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 3: Choice, better safe than sorry. 151 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 4: Basically, that's right, but sometimes it's like worse to have 152 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 4: a choice, right, because now you go, yeah, all right, well, 153 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 4: so we could do this other convoluted thing of bringing 154 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 4: them home on the SpaceX uber and you know call 155 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 4: an uber. Well, they've already got a SpaceX ship docked there, 156 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 4: but you know that has a crew who don't want 157 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 4: to give up their seats. So there's another crew waiting 158 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 4: to come up in September. And so the idea is, well, okay, 159 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 4: so bump to people from that crew and have it 160 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 4: come up and arrive at the space station in September, 161 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 4: and you could you could then go all right and 162 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 4: then bring the guys home right away on that. But 163 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 4: they've said, well, you know, but it's expensive. So let's 164 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 4: make poor Butcher and Sonny take the places of those 165 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 4: bumped to crew members and do their jobs for another 166 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 4: few months and not bring them home until the original 167 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 4: planned Crew nine landing time of February. And so, congratulations, guys, 168 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 4: you've just got to pointed to a new crew and 169 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 4: you've got a few more months on the space. 170 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 3: A lot more months. 171 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 2: I'm curious do the astronauts themselves have any say in 172 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 2: this or is this all Are they at the mercy 173 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 2: of NASA, Are at the mercy of Boeing? Or do 174 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 2: they get to say, hey, we'll take our chances and 175 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 2: try and come home early. 176 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 4: Yeah. Typically, right, well, it's it's NASA's call. They work 177 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 4: for NASA. But they, you know, the NASA what they 178 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 4: call the control board or the decision board, consults with 179 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 4: the actional Hey what do you think of this? Do 180 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 4: you have concerns whatever, So they'll take they'll take the astronauts' concerns, 181 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 4: you know, into hand. But but yeah, you're an astronaut, 182 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 4: you want another flight, you know, you don't want to 183 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 4: be labeled as the whip and so it's gonna be 184 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 4: a high bar before you say no, can you bring 185 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 4: me home in the safeway place? So now their their 186 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 4: their their instinctive response is gonna be, oh, well, we're 187 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 4: ready to you know, to do this. I'm sure you 188 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 4: guys know what you're doing, So just make the right 189 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 4: engineering call. 190 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: But Jonathan, how does that work? Can you help us 191 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: with the astronauts. I know they go through all kinds 192 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: of extensive training, but if you're telling me I'm on 193 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: an eight day trip and then I'm up here for 194 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: eight or nine months. I mean, how are they do 195 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: they get prepped mentally psychologically for this type of thing. 196 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a that's not just a couple of 197 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: weeks delay or days delay. That's that's almost a year 198 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: of your life when you thought you're going to be 199 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: back in a week. 200 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 3: Miss anniversary, is miss Christmas? All of that. 201 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 4: That's right, I mean, I I it is hard. They 202 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 4: have you know, they knew that the contingencies that could 203 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 4: let them be on the station longer than eight days, 204 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 4: So I think the idea that they might stay a 205 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 4: few weeks would have been in their minds. Anyway, I 206 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 4: don't think they were expecting it to be this long 207 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 4: and so and so you're right, it is, you know, 208 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 4: missing missing holidays with your family and so on. It 209 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 4: is tough. Now, these are experienced astronauts. They have done 210 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 4: you know, longery Sonny Williams was commander the ISS for 211 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 4: a while and so on. So so they you know, 212 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 4: this is not new to them. It's unexpected. But yeah, 213 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 4: they're they're tough, they're they they can they can handle it. 214 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 4: So I think, and you know, for National you're getting 215 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 4: more flight time, breaking certain records. I think it's gonna 216 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 4: you know, you're like, you know, you get to take 217 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 4: off a few extra things of like, yeah, I'm the 218 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 4: American nationronaut who spent you know, longest in this and 219 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 4: so yeah, they're actually you know, there are pol them 220 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 4: for this and career wise, and. 221 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,319 Speaker 2: So I'm curious is there anything dangerous about what they're doing? 222 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 2: I saw somewhere someone saying something about radiation exposure. I mean, 223 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 2: is there any danger to being in space that long 224 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 2: or being at the station that long? 225 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 4: Really not. I mean that there's some accumulated radiation exposure, 226 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 4: but that's true even if you go on like a 227 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 4: transatlantic plane flight, right, And so you know, we've had 228 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 4: astronauts stay up for years at a time, right, Scott 229 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 4: Kelly did. This is a year and a half mission 230 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 4: on the Space station. So it's not like they're doing 231 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 4: anything that other people haven't done before in that respect, 232 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 4: And so I'm not concerned about that. I mean, having 233 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 4: said that being in space is not the safest place 234 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 4: to be in general, right, there's always something that can 235 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 4: go wrong, But if you're in space, being on the 236 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 4: Space station with all its resources and all the monitoring 237 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 4: so on, that that's that's about as safe as you're 238 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 4: going to be while you're in space. And so it's 239 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 4: the launch and the landing that are always the scary bits. 240 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: We're talking about the thrusters here, but there is a 241 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: helium link that they were aware of. Is that right 242 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: before they even launch? Can you help us understand how 243 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,719 Speaker 1: important of a matter that is and why if you 244 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: knew about this problem, why you still would go ahead 245 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: and launch? 246 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 4: Right, I'm not too concerned about it. So the helium 247 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 4: is used. They have high pressure helium tanks and what 248 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 4: they do is they use that to push the fuel 249 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 4: into the rocket engine. Because you know, on Earth, right, 250 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 4: we use gravity to like, you know, push things into 251 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 4: where we want to go. But they don't have the gravity, 252 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 4: so they use another gas and high pressure to push 253 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 4: the fuel into where it's going to ignite in the 254 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,719 Speaker 4: rocket engine. And the trouble with helium is helium is 255 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 4: a tiny atom. It loves to leak out of things, 256 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 4: and so helium leaks are like if you work with heal, 257 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 4: helium leaks are part of your life. There's always going 258 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 4: to be helium leak. The question is how big is 259 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,439 Speaker 4: it going to be? And so this was a bit 260 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 4: bigger leak than they designed for, but it's still pretty small, okay, 261 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 4: and they still got plenty of helium, and so it 262 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 4: doesn't you know. The worry is is that leak a 263 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 4: sign of something that's about to give that then would 264 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 4: give you a huge helium leak, and the all the 265 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 4: helium would leak out, you wouldn't be able to use 266 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 4: the rocket engines. That would be bad. 267 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: But Jonathan, how can they figure this out from the 268 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: like all these problems. I know they have diagnostics and 269 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: things they can run, But can you ever get to 270 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: a point where you're comfortable enough this from on Earth 271 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: saying yeah, go ahead and hop in that thing and 272 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: come on back. It's good to go. I mean, how 273 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: can you ever reach that bar? It seems like a 274 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:43,439 Speaker 1: high bar. 275 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 4: It is a high bar. Yeah, but it's doable. I mean, 276 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 4: I think you know what you do, right, is you 277 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 4: have all of like you said, have all these diagnostics. Right. 278 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 4: You know the pressure in the tank, you know how 279 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 4: it behaves it when you do certain things, and then 280 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 4: you replicate that on the ground. And if you can 281 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 4: make a setup on the ground that misbehaves exactly the 282 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 4: same way that the thing in space is misbehaving, right, 283 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 4: then you go, ah, right, we understand why this is 284 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 4: happening now, and then and then you go and then 285 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 4: you can go once you understand it, then you can go, 286 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 4: all right, what's the worst that could happen? 287 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 2: And so right now they don't understand it, and they've 288 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 2: said in the next week or two they're going to 289 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 2: make a final call by the end of this month. 290 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 2: So what are they That's what they're doing right now 291 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 2: on the ground, they're replicating what the potential problem is 292 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 2: to try and understand it. And only if they understand 293 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 2: it then will they send those astronauts back in that 294 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 2: same craft. 295 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 4: That's right, Well, I think only if they have enough 296 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 4: confidence that they understand it well enough to rule out 297 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 4: some horrible thing happening. And it's a bit it's a 298 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 4: hard bar, right, because it's it's not like we're not 299 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 4: in the situation where we go, okay, this part is 300 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 4: going to do this horrible thing if so, if X happens, right, 301 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 4: it's like, we don't understand why it's behaving, so we 302 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 4: can't rule out that there might be some horrible thing 303 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 4: that would have and that we haven't thought of. And 304 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 4: that's harder wow, right, and so and probably be fine. 305 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 4: Let me be very clear. Probably probably if if they 306 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 4: undocked and came home in the star Liner, it's probably 307 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 4: just fine. And everyone and all the media will go, 308 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 4: what are they worrying about? You know, so and and 309 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 4: and But there's that leggling little worry. And what's really great, right, 310 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 4: is that that's the thing open about the fact that 311 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 4: you know, Okay, we have disagreement on the team. Some 312 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 4: of us think it's fine, some of us don't think 313 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 4: it's fine. And that's a big change from the days 314 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 4: of the Challenger explosion and the Columbia explosion, where there 315 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 4: it's a big management we need this to look good. 316 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 4: Shut up, don't don't, don't raise this horrible possibility, right, 317 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 4: and then we lost astronauts. So they're doing the prudent thing. 318 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 4: They're doing it appropriately. They're having open discussion and argument, 319 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 4: and I love to see that. And and my guess 320 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 4: at this point is that the odds are in favor 321 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 4: of them going it probably fine, but let's just be careful. 322 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 4: Let's keep them up and bring him home on the Dragon. 323 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: Okay, but Javan, nobody in that room that's making a 324 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: decision is using the word they probably will be fine, 325 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: probably can't be good enough in this scenario, I'll. 326 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 4: Get it, right, they got there, they're gonna use They're 327 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 4: gonna use words that are that that that hide that. 328 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 4: But that's why. And so yeah, well no, it's always probabilities, right, 329 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 4: there's always a risk, right, there's a risk to bring 330 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 4: them home on the dragon, right with with you know, 331 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 4: maybe the new sort of seats that they added for 332 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 4: them are gonna be you know, not quite right, or 333 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 4: maybe maybe there's something that is very unlike I think 334 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 4: it's pretty safe to bring home the dragon, but the 335 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 4: Dragon is not entirely risk free. And so it's you're 336 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 4: always balancing risks, right, You're if you wait until you 337 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 4: can say we're not going to launch this rocket until 338 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 4: it's safe, well I got use for you. You're on like, 339 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 4: you know, thousands of tons of highly explosive propellant, it's 340 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 4: never going to be safe. And so so it's always 341 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 4: which is the less risky? Which is what is the 342 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 4: acceptable level of risk? And that's what these guys are 343 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 4: paid to take, right, the acceptable level of risk? And 344 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 4: so you do your best, you get it to be 345 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 4: as safe as you can. But no, safer. It's you're 346 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 4: always taking a risk and so so so I think 347 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 4: that's that's that's the reality of space fight. Actually, it's 348 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 4: the reality of life, right though, if you want to 349 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 4: be safe, you know, don't go stay on your couch 350 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 4: even then, right, you're gonna have medical problems. 351 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,479 Speaker 2: You make very excellent points, Jonathan. I'm curious with the 352 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 2: world watching now and so much scrutiny on whether or 353 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 2: not these two astronauts come home now or in a 354 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: few months, and with the possible risk involved, wouldn't you, 355 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,479 Speaker 2: I mean, it sounded like you believed that probably what 356 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 2: we're going to hear in two weeks is that they're 357 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 2: staying up until February. 358 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 4: That's my guess. But I would let's put it this way, 359 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 4: I wouldn't be astonished if they make the other call 360 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 4: and they go, you know, we've done our due diligence. Yeah, 361 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 4: there's some issues, but we think that the risk of 362 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 4: something bad is pretty small. So let's bring them home 363 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 4: and and and and not mess up our schedule so 364 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 4: that that that's still very much on the table. Uh 365 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 4: and and so yeah, I'm I'm on tender hooks waiting 366 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 4: to see what they picked I would if I had 367 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 4: to bet, I think, you know, uh, three weeks ago, 368 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 4: I would have bet they'd bring them home on Starliner. 369 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 4: Now I'm starting to lean towards Yeah, they're probably going 370 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 4: to pick the Dragon route. But but it it it, 371 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 4: you know, it could go either way. Either way would 372 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 4: be a valid engineering decision. And it's really it's really 373 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 4: on a knife edge, I think, And that's why they're 374 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 4: taking so long over it. 375 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: Okay, and you keep talking about the Dragon here, we're 376 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: talking about SpaceX, SpaceX and and Boeing are have been 377 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: competitors in the space race, if you will, does it, 378 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: in your opinion factor into or Look, we're human beings. 379 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: But the idea that your competitor sent the astronauts up 380 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: and the competitors vehicle can't bring them back. Haha, SpaceX, 381 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: we got to give your people a ride back because 382 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: your vehicle broke down. Does that factor into Boeing's head 383 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: or anybody else's here. That's a bad look. 384 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, it really is a bad look for moving you know, 385 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 4: it's not let me say this, They've got to try 386 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 4: and certify the star Liner for for operational flights. They 387 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 4: can still do that even if they bring it home empty, 388 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 4: as long as they get the thrusters back and can 389 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 4: disassemble them in the lab and finally figure out what's 390 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 4: going wrong. I could see a scenario where the astronauts 391 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 4: come home and the Dragon that they bring the star 392 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 4: Liner home without a crew. They analyze it, and they go, Okay, 393 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 4: now we understand what's going on. We have complete confidence 394 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 4: that the next flight will be flawless. Right, And so 395 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 4: it's not necessarily the end of the line for Starliner 396 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 4: if they do this, but it's a really bad look 397 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 4: and so yeah, and that's why it's not Boeing's call, right, 398 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 4: It's it's it's NASA's call. And I think also within NASA, right, 399 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 4: there's a real interesting going. You know, this whole fiasco 400 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 4: shows why we want two ships, right, because next time 401 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 4: it could be the Dragon that has a problem, right, 402 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 4: And so you don't want to be dependent on just 403 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 4: one type of ship. And they're not because there's always 404 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 4: the Russian Sawyers. But you know, politically that's technique. 405 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 3: Not a good time. It's really never been a good time, 406 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,880 Speaker 3: but it is an especially bad time right now, right exactly. 407 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 4: And so you would like to have two American ships 408 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 4: that to choose from in case one goes down right. 409 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 4: And and you know, we saw, for example, a couple 410 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 4: a month or so GOO, the FULC and nine that 411 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 4: launches Dragon had a little upsey and I had an 412 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 4: engine explosion that to strengthen some satellites in orbit. It's 413 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 4: the same kind of rocket that launches the Dragon. Now 414 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 4: they fix that quickly and they're backflying. But you can 415 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 4: imagine a worse accident that would keep dragging out of 416 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 4: action for four months or longer. And so then you'd 417 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 4: be really happy if you had the star Liner as 418 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 4: an alternate way to bring to get people to the 419 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 4: space station. And so NASA really wants Starliner to succeed 420 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 4: for that reason. And so I think the upper management 421 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 4: are going to be really hoping that they can paper 422 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 4: this over and make Starliner look good and may them 423 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 4: come down the engineering level management that's actually I hope 424 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 4: mostly making this call are going to be not influenced 425 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 4: by that nearly as much and are going to be 426 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 4: going what's the safest thing, what's the right engineering call, 427 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 4: and that's where the decision should be made. My only 428 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 4: slight concern is that Bill Nelson, the top administrator of 429 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 4: NASA has said the final call is going to be 430 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 4: his for this particular flad, and that's probably okay. I mean, 431 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 4: he is a guy who when he was a congressman 432 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 4: did fly on the Shuttle as a congressional junket, and 433 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,919 Speaker 4: so he knows what being scrapped to a rocket is like, 434 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 4: and so you know, hopefully he'll be conservative too. But 435 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 4: I would rather it just be made at the engineering 436 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 4: level than not at the management level, because the management 437 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 4: level is where the politics starts to come. 438 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 2: And I was going to ask about all of that, 439 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 2: because obviously this is a race to commercial access to 440 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 2: flying into space, to dock at the International Space Station. 441 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 3: Does this do anything to. 442 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 2: Delay where we were as a country in terms of 443 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 2: making that happen, privatizing in a way or at least 444 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 2: commercializing space. 445 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 4: Travel at the moment, I don't think so. 446 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 5: I think this is part of the process of learning 447 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 5: how to deal with the balance between NASA and the 448 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 5: commercial providers, right, and so it'll actually be a test 449 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 5: case for how you make these decisions, how you balance 450 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 5: the interests of the commercial company with the interests of 451 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 5: the of the national Space program. 452 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 4: I think that if they were to lose the star 453 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 4: Liner on descent, even even if without a cro on board, right, 454 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 4: if there were, and I don't think that's likely, but 455 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 4: it's it's not impossible. So if they were to lose 456 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 4: the star Line, that would raise some issues. And it's weird. 457 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 4: I mean, one empisodes, right, is that Boeing in its 458 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 4: head right, is still the natural spaceship builder for the 459 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 4: US government. They when they were North America, they built 460 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 4: the Apollo spaceship. Right, when they were Rockwell, they built 461 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 4: the Space Shuttle, and so they feel like they always 462 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 4: have an entitlement of being the spaceship builders. And it's 463 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 4: amazing how quickly that has flipped around to SpaceX being 464 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 4: the default, these new upstarts in Going's eyes, and Boeing 465 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 4: now being portrayed as the upstart competitor when really they 466 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 4: were the incumbent for so many decades. 467 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: And do have right that there's an issue. They the 468 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: astronauts that go up on the star Liner Boweling star 469 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: Liner don't have the right suits that allow them to 470 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: fly in the SpaceX capsules. They had to have a 471 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: different spacesuit. 472 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a different pressure suit and it's not like 473 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 4: a space that you go out and do spacewalks. It's 474 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 4: just a key, it's just a hedge against if the 475 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,919 Speaker 4: air leaks out during the way down. But but it 476 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 4: has to connect in to the to the right spaceships 477 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 4: plug right, and and they, yeah, for whatever reason, they 478 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 4: didn't mandate that there'd be a separate like spaceh design 479 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 4: that would be common for all the you know, so, yeah, 480 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 4: that's lack of interoperability. Is I think a lesson to 481 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 4: learn for the next generation of spaceships that it's great 482 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 4: to have the different designs, but they should be interoperable. 483 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 4: You should be able to mix and match. And that's 484 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 4: not the case right now. And that's a bit embarrassing. 485 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 3: Wow, that's that's like fascinating. 486 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 2: It's like Apple chargers, right, you know, you keep getting 487 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 2: a new do you can't need to get a new charger. 488 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 3: It's very similar. 489 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 4: Exactly, yeah, exactly, even two Apple things can't work with 490 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 4: each other. And so yeah, no, it's exactly that problem. 491 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 4: And so we all have had it, right and so 492 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 4: they but you know, the sickness cargo ship came up. 493 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 4: It delivered both fresh clothes and also I believe they 494 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 4: have the right suits or that they'll figure that out. 495 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 4: That's not a problem. And actually just this morning the 496 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 4: Russians launched another cargo ship that's going to arrive over 497 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 4: the weekend and have extra supplies. So the good news 498 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 4: is that they have scads of supplies to last all 499 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 4: this extra, these extra people for months more. So I'm 500 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 4: not worried about them running out of sandwiches or or 501 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 4: you know, or air or water. Right, you have to 502 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 4: actually deliver the air and the water on the cargo trucks. 503 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 4: It's not just the food. 504 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 3: Wow, you deliver air on the car. 505 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 4: Deliver I did not know that. Yeah, yeah, they do 506 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 4: recycle the air, but you know that you need to 507 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 4: tap it at top it up and and so the 508 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 4: and then they deliver fuel to kind of boost you 509 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 4: over with the space station so on. So there's all 510 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 4: kinds of stuff just arrived and on their way and 511 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 4: so so they can they can take their time. But yeah, 512 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 4: these these little it's actually really interesting that that this 513 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 4: surfaces these issues of incompatibility and of how do you 514 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 4: swat from one to the other. Even for the Russian ships, 515 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 4: they have an even more weird thing, which is that 516 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 4: they have special contoured couches for the astronauts to lie 517 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 4: in because the scent is so you know, so many gs, 518 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 4: so much acceleration, and so each each couch is shaped 519 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 4: for particular astronauts rear end uh, and so they actually 520 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 4: have when they swap sawyers as they actually carry the 521 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 4: couches from one sawyers to the other and things like that. 522 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 4: So it's not just it's not quite as simple as, oh, yeah, 523 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,719 Speaker 4: I got rebooked on US Air. I'm gonna, you know, 524 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 4: carry my carry on and go to the new gate. 525 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 4: It's it's a little more involved than that. 526 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: Can I ask We talked about the thrusters if the 527 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,120 Speaker 1: star Liner comes back. They think the thrusters are working 528 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: in the operable. Now, if you start that flight back 529 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: and the thrusters start acting up after you're already on 530 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 1: your way back to Earth, is it possible to land 531 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: that thing? Is it? What would happen if those things 532 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 1: go out on the way back. 533 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 4: It depends when they start going wrong. Okay, so if 534 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 4: you start to have issues, the most likely thing is 535 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 4: that you start to have issues immediately you start backing 536 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 4: away from the space station, because that's where you can 537 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,239 Speaker 4: be firing a lot to kind of steer yourself, and 538 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 4: at that point I would guess as soon as they 539 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 4: have even a few problems, they go, whoop, snow, let's 540 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 4: go back and readopt with the space station right. So 541 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 4: the trick is, can you redock before you lose too 542 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,479 Speaker 4: many thrusters to be able to steer, And so as 543 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,239 Speaker 4: long as they don't all go out at once. If 544 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,640 Speaker 4: you lose one or two and you go, that's not good, 545 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 4: let's let's change our minds and say you know that. 546 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 4: But once they've backed away a long way from the station, 547 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 4: so they can still you know, if they have if 548 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 4: they can keep enough thrusters working to come back. That's 549 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 4: one thing. Once they make the deorbit burn the big 550 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,479 Speaker 4: rockets to slow the spaceship the starliner down and make 551 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 4: it start to fall out of orbit. Now they've got 552 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 4: to be steering right. They can't afford to screw up 553 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 4: because if you enter the atmosphere at seventeen thousand miles 554 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 4: an hour at the wrong angle with your heat shield 555 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 4: not pointing the right way, you know, then then you're 556 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,959 Speaker 4: going to be crispy. So so that's you better have 557 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 4: good confidence in the thrusters at that point. 558 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 2: How long is the trip like if you were backing 559 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 2: away from the International Space Station to head back home. 560 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 3: How long is that trip? 561 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 4: You know, it depends because it's like there's two things. 562 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 4: There's like a twenty minute period where you're getting out 563 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 4: of the immediate vicinity of the space station, and then 564 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 4: you float around for a while and you wait until 565 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 4: you're at the right point in your orbit where fire 566 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 4: and the engines will bring you down in New Mexico. 567 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 4: And so that depending on exactly when you do, it 568 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 4: can be a few hours, it can be a day, right. 569 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 4: Sometimes they undark and they I think the original time 570 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,479 Speaker 4: might have been to spend a day just you know, 571 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 4: flying with the Starliner and checking it out somewhere before 572 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 4: bringing it back. They're not going to do that now, 573 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 4: and so probably a few hours, a couple orbits of 574 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 4: the Earth. So you go round the Earth every hour 575 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 4: and a half. Wow, and you're going at seventeen thousand 576 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 4: miles an how right, And so then a certain point 577 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 4: you're coming over the Pacific, you farre the engines, you 578 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 4: lower your orbit so that it intersects the surface of 579 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 4: the Earth, and then you strap in and hope the 580 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 4: heat shield doesn't melt and come down on parachutes and 581 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 4: then you've got airbags that inflate just before you hit 582 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 4: the New Mexico. 583 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: Desert, right, and to be I want to make sure 584 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: Clube very clear on this scenarios. One option is to 585 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: take the Starliner if they if they say that vehicle 586 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: is okay, they could be ready to bring them back 587 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: in what a matter of days? 588 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, I would. I would guess they'll plan, they'll wander 589 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 4: a little more planning, so probably early September something like that. 590 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: So if they use the SpaceX vehicles, what are the 591 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: options when would they possibly be back? 592 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 4: Right and there it's just a question of well, they 593 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 4: could bring them back in October, but they're not gonna 594 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 4: They're gonna use the advantage of having you know, these 595 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 4: guys on board to carry out the Crew nine mission 596 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 4: and keep them up there till February. And then the 597 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 4: SpaceX comes back down in a somewhat different way, and 598 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 4: actually they've changed the way they're bringing that This would 599 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 4: be the first time that they would be coming back 600 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 4: down on the West coast. They they would land in 601 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 4: the Pacific, just off the coast of California, and then 602 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 4: they you know, Chip comes up and hauls them on board. 603 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 4: So so that would be in February. Uh, and so 604 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 4: the yeah, and that's you know, that's in general a 605 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 4: well trodden pawerful. There is a wrinkle. So so the 606 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 4: dragon has two sections. It has the bit the astronauts 607 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 4: sit in, and it has what they call the trunk 608 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 4: where they keep the cargo. And the trunk gets jettisoned. 609 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 4: And they used to just jettison it into orbit and 610 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 4: they said, oh, it'll burn up when it re enters, 611 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 4: no worries. And then some poor farmer in Australia found 612 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 4: a huge shard of this thing stick out of is field, 613 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 4: like as big as a person. And then someone in 614 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 4: Saskatchewan found a similar large lump on their farm. And 615 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 4: the last like three or four Dragon missions have had 616 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 4: pieces of this trunk end up crashing near people and 617 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 4: that's not good. And so they they're now going to 618 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 4: keep the trunk attached until re entry, drop it off 619 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 4: during re entry. And that means they can't if they 620 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 4: did that for a Florida Ocean landing that they have 621 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 4: been doing, the trunk would fall in the Midwest or something, 622 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 4: so that would be good. So instead they're going to 623 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 4: land land over California and have the trunk re enter 624 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 4: over the Pacific. So I mentioned that just because it's like, 625 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 4: it's not like the Dragon hasn't had its issues, right, 626 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 4: they haven't been life threatening to the astionnauts, but they're 627 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 4: they're keep having to adjust for various safety reasons the 628 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 4: way that they do these things, and so the program 629 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 4: right now is actually really flexible, and they have all 630 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 4: of the years of experience on the Space Station, on 631 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 4: the Shuttle, and now in these new vehicles are giving 632 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 4: nas of the confidence to kind of change their plans 633 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 4: relatively last minute and try different things. 634 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 2: I have one last question for you, Jonathan. So you're 635 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 2: obviously a you're an astrophysicist. It doesn't really require any 636 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 2: other explanation. You know, more than the majority of anyone 637 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 2: that said and given everything we've seen, when commercial space 638 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 2: travel becomes available, would you be happy and willing to 639 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 2: jump on board to go up into space, into orbit 640 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 2: and come back down? 641 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, I mean, well, you know, I'm old, I'm 642 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,959 Speaker 4: getting some health issues. I'm not sure if I would 643 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 4: be you know, that would be good for me. But 644 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 4: I always I applied to be an astronaut back in 645 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 4: the day. I didn't get anywhere because I'm not enough 646 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 4: of a jock, but yeah, no, I'd love to fly, 647 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 4: and I would feel you know, from a safety point 648 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 4: of view. I think these missions, like for example, Axiom Space, 649 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 4: which is flying tourists on the Dragon, the new one 650 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 4: that was just announced with this Chinese bitcoin billionaire has 651 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 4: bort a flight. You know, Yeah, you want to take 652 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 4: me along, I'm in. 653 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: Last thing for me and explain to the lay folks 654 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: when there's an emergence, what's our capability? I know they 655 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: make plans and continues to sow use this going up 656 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 1: in a couple of months, we have an emergency, maybe 657 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: somebody can jump on there. We got to, right, we 658 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 1: know that, But just our capacity if there's an emergency 659 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: in space and we need to immediately get up there 660 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: and get somebody back, do we have the capability to 661 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 1: do that? 662 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 4: And how quickly we don't need to get up there 663 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 4: because we already have the emergency escape vehicles there. Right, 664 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,280 Speaker 4: They are not so worried about Starliner that they wouldn't 665 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 4: quite happily put Bush and Sunny in Starliner to come 666 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 4: home in an emergency, right, And the Dragon crew have 667 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 4: a Dragon dock there to come home in. And the 668 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 4: Russians have asyers docked there, so you are. The rule 669 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 4: is you always have your emergency escape vehicles still parked 670 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 4: at the station. You never you're never there without a 671 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 4: seat home and so that and that's just prudent. And 672 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,399 Speaker 4: so now what they had did have a while back, 673 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,479 Speaker 4: they had a problem with the Sawyers and they didn't 674 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 4: trust it anymore. And so what they did was they 675 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 4: launched the Sawyers without a crew, had it robotically docked 676 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 4: with the station, and then returned the suspect one without 677 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 4: without anybody aboard. And so that's that's the sort of 678 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 4: thing that they've done in the past. But yeah, no, 679 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 4: you you never if anyone offers you a rite to 680 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 4: space and tells you, yeah, and we're going to take 681 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 4: the taxi and we're gonna like it's going to go 682 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 4: somewhere else. It's just going to drop you off the 683 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 4: Space station. So don't worry, we'll come and pick you 684 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,320 Speaker 4: up some later time. That's the point of which I go, yeah, thanks, 685 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 4: but no thanks. 686 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 3: You need a seat a guaranteed seed back home. 687 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 4: Yes, please. 688 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 6: Jonathan McDowell, thank you so much, so much for explaining 689 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 6: something that was quite inexplicable to most of us so, 690 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 6: and we just appreciate your time and your expertise and 691 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 6: thank you for being on the podcast. 692 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 4: It's a pleasure. 693 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,359 Speaker 1: Thank you for having me and folks, you know where 694 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: to find us always. You can check us out our 695 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: official show page at Amy and TJ Podcast. We'll see 696 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: sy