Speaker 1: Today's quote is from Emma Goldman, who was an anarchist
Speaker 1: and feminist in like the eighteen hundreds into the early
Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds and uh. She is famous for saying something
Speaker 1: generally along the lines of if I can't dance, I
Speaker 1: don't want to be part of your revolution. And I
Speaker 1: think that's good to remember when we are talking about
Speaker 1: the voice and how you know, what frees us the
Speaker 1: most is when we have a sense of humor and
Speaker 1: fun and a little dancing doesn't hurt. Our voice is
Speaker 1: a reflection of our life experience, where we've been and
Speaker 1: who we've listened to. But we can also own it
Speaker 1: and even change it if we want. This is the
Speaker 1: podcast that's all about the voice, but it's also all
Speaker 1: about power. Who has it, how we get it, how
Speaker 1: we sound when we have it. I'm Samara Bay. I'm
Speaker 1: a dialect coach for actors in Hollywood on movies like
Speaker 1: the upcoming Wonder Woman's sequel and a bunch of other
Speaker 1: stuff I can't talk about. And I'm also a speech
Speaker 1: coach for entrepreneurs, for politicians, for women everywhere ready to
Speaker 1: use their voice to get what they want. Welcome to
Speaker 1: permission to speak let's do this today. I have on
Speaker 1: Evan rachel Wood. She's been professionally acting since she was
Speaker 1: a kid. Her breakout role was in thirteen. She was
Speaker 1: also in Across the Universe, the wrestler True Blood, and
Speaker 1: now the third season of West World is upon us
Speaker 1: in just a few weeks. I wanted to have Evan
Speaker 1: on the show because over the last decade, she's come
Speaker 1: out as by when it wasn't necessarily convenient to do so.
Speaker 1: She's come out as a domestic violence survivor, and she's
Speaker 1: found her way into using her story as an advocate
Speaker 1: for other survivors in Congress, at the state and the
Speaker 1: national level. That is like so much public bravery to navigate,
Speaker 1: and she and I got to talk about how she
Speaker 1: did that. We also get to talk about her turn
Speaker 1: as a Disney queen that's like a strikethrough princess sub
Speaker 1: in queen, and the way that she crafted the voices
Speaker 1: plural of Dolores Abernathy, as well as her own sort
Speaker 1: of surprise experience as a leader behind the scenes. Here
Speaker 1: is Evan. So I want to talk first about Dolores. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is season three is like happening a second and
Speaker 1: I'm wondering specifically about the voice, because that's what this
Speaker 1: podcast is all about. There's a lot going on with
Speaker 1: the voice. What's up? What I really want to know
Speaker 1: is like how you approached it in terms of the
Speaker 1: accent and also relatedly in terms of like being kind
Speaker 1: of on script versus going rogue. Yeah. We uh actually
Speaker 1: talked a lot about her voice during the pilot, and
Speaker 1: we tried a few variations. I think at first, Dolores
Speaker 1: and character sounded like an old Hollywood version of a Western.
Speaker 1: So it was much more, you know, that kind of
Speaker 1: weird affected, affected affected, like um, gone with the wind
Speaker 1: kind of thing. And they were like, this is too much,
Speaker 1: like you're not a debutante from New York, like, you know,
Speaker 1: just do your accent that you know, And so I
Speaker 1: kind of went back to my North Carolinian roots a
Speaker 1: little bit, but made it a very generic Southern accent,
Speaker 1: and we made it much more realistic rather than like
Speaker 1: a you know, a siren. And then there's the analysis voice,
Speaker 1: which I sort of based off of, you know, when
Speaker 1: you type in a sentence into a computer and that
Speaker 1: voice kind of reads it back to I wanted her
Speaker 1: to have a slight cadence of the computer, but like
Speaker 1: a just a little a little s of Stephen Hawking, Yeah,
Speaker 1: just a bit of Serrie, a bit of um. The
Speaker 1: inflo actions on the words just are slightly off um,
Speaker 1: and they the sentences run together a bit more. So
Speaker 1: it gives us this really kind of strange rhythm that
Speaker 1: she has and it's like there's something slightly unsettling about it. Um.
Speaker 1: So we worked a lot on that, and then you know,
Speaker 1: season two isn't completely different thing. It was like, we
Speaker 1: talk a lot about the mixtures of the characters, so
Speaker 1: they'll say, we want your voice to be a bit
Speaker 1: of Analysis with a bit of Wyatt, or a bit
Speaker 1: of Wyatt with a bit of Dolorus, or a bit
Speaker 1: of this new version of Dolorus which you're gonna see
Speaker 1: in season three that's gonna start creepy. And so it
Speaker 1: is kind of it makes my head spin. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: what were you were like in your trailer being like, okay, whoa,
Speaker 1: but that sound like a little bit. But what's nice
Speaker 1: is once you decide what you're gonna do, you know,
Speaker 1: I always view it as you know, I build these
Speaker 1: kind of four walls and then I just bounced around
Speaker 1: inside those four walls, like okay, here's my parameters and
Speaker 1: now play and just feel it out. That reminds me
Speaker 1: an act school, like you can't make multiple choices at once.
Speaker 1: You have to make one and then a different one
Speaker 1: than a different one than a different one unless you're
Speaker 1: on what door. But it's it seems like the four
Speaker 1: walls thing might be a way to not make yourself
Speaker 1: go crazy and try to play you know, three things
Speaker 1: on top of each other when really like, you know
Speaker 1: this than this, than this would do the same thing,
Speaker 1: but then you know what you're doing exactly. And I
Speaker 1: also love what you're saying because as somebody you know
Speaker 1: who coaches actors when it comes to dialect, stuff like,
Speaker 1: what we're really talking about is what story are we telling?
Speaker 1: So it sounds like with stuff like the Wyatt and
Speaker 1: the analysis that it isn't just like this is the
Speaker 1: accent I will switch into, But it's like, who is
Speaker 1: this version of her? And when do those versions come out?
Speaker 1: On what moment? And when is it important? And when
Speaker 1: does it serve the story? Not just be cool if
Speaker 1: it came out here and be like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: on this line, she's angry, So this would be a
Speaker 1: bit more wyat, or this would be a bit more
Speaker 1: of the computer because it's more strategic, or you know,
Speaker 1: you have to pick and choose. When the choreography of
Speaker 1: that is like stunning bananas? Do you go to work
Speaker 1: being like just another chilled I mean it's not only
Speaker 1: the subject matter the subject Yes, And on top of it,
Speaker 1: the subject matter is incredibly heavy and very heavy, So
Speaker 1: it's exhausting. It's really exhausting. And I think I underestimated
Speaker 1: how difficult it is to play such a contained character
Speaker 1: because in her programming, she has no cortisol, she has
Speaker 1: no adrenaline. She she's there's a reason why she is
Speaker 1: very steady, even in the most heightened, uh you know,
Speaker 1: kind of insane shootouts or fights or you know, hyh
Speaker 1: drama scenes. She's very level headed. It's because she's literally
Speaker 1: programmed to be level headed. Don't act like a human,
Speaker 1: don't act like a human. Really hard not to act
Speaker 1: like a human. And also there's a camera right there
Speaker 1: capturing you know, what we hope will be a human
Speaker 1: enough thing that an audience relates to you, So we
Speaker 1: do that. Do you think about it when you're not
Speaker 1: Flora's I think about the ways we are. I think
Speaker 1: about it all the time. I think I'm always thinking
Speaker 1: about people and why we are the way that we are.
Speaker 1: I'm always going back and I'm one of the actors
Speaker 1: that looks at my past performances and I see where
Speaker 1: I can improve, and I see, you know, what I
Speaker 1: want to do differently next time. And you know, I'm
Speaker 1: a perfectionist, so I'm always looking for more things to
Speaker 1: explore and learn. Yeah, something that strikes me when I
Speaker 1: was thinking about your performance in this and the fact
Speaker 1: that you've been doing it for the last few years,
Speaker 1: it seems like it also coincides with the Phoenix act stuff,
Speaker 1: which is really another So yeah, how did it come
Speaker 1: about that you got involved with policy stuff and also
Speaker 1: became a voice of it. It just sort of happened.
Speaker 1: And I actually credit Westworld a lot for my awakening,
Speaker 1: which is what the show is about, and I think,
Speaker 1: but it's also what the show is meant to do
Speaker 1: to wake us up. And man, did it really work
Speaker 1: on me, um, because it was during that first season
Speaker 1: where I started to wake up to my own traumas,
Speaker 1: and um, I really got to work a lot of
Speaker 1: it out on screen, and it showed me a strength
Speaker 1: of myself. It gave me permission to be strong in
Speaker 1: a way that I just hadn't felt before. And did
Speaker 1: you seek out this sort of you know, activism or
Speaker 1: did somebody find you or had it been in the
Speaker 1: back burner but suddenly you knew what to do with it?
Speaker 1: You know, I hadn't even admitted to myself a lot
Speaker 1: of things were what they were. Um, I didn't call
Speaker 1: myself a domestic violence survivory, you know. I couldn't. I
Speaker 1: couldn't say I was raped. I hadn't gone there yet,
Speaker 1: which is by the way, part of the point of
Speaker 1: the Phoenix Act for anybody listening, the whole idea of it.
Speaker 1: And it's California and also ideally nationally, although we're we're
Speaker 1: starting there. We're starting and we're starting to get sponsors
Speaker 1: on other states. And the idea is not even to
Speaker 1: change how domestic violent perpetrators are handled, but actually just
Speaker 1: the statute of limitation so that people who have gone
Speaker 1: through something and have the time. We're learning so much
Speaker 1: about tron the effects it has on our minds and
Speaker 1: bodies and the amount of time that it takes to
Speaker 1: really process a traumatic event, and there's so much research
Speaker 1: to back this up with. The laws still aren't really
Speaker 1: reflecting it, and victims are suffering and not able to
Speaker 1: seek justice because they've been so hurt they haven't even
Speaker 1: begun to face what happened, or identify what happened, or
Speaker 1: to feel safe enough. Um, there's a there's a quote
Speaker 1: that you said, I did whatever I could to feel safe,
Speaker 1: which meant putting time and space between me, him and
Speaker 1: the abuse. It's very true, yeah, and really really terrible circumstances.
Speaker 1: You need years too sometimes become financially independent. You need
Speaker 1: to hide, you need to set up a new life somewhere,
Speaker 1: You need to process what happened to you. And it
Speaker 1: can sound like three to five years is a long time,
Speaker 1: and you think, well, you should know when a crime
Speaker 1: has been committed against you immediately, but you don't, especially
Speaker 1: when love is andvolved, especially when trauma is involved. Domestic
Speaker 1: violence is just such a complicated psychological roller coaster, and
Speaker 1: there's virtually no education about it. Um. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: what it seems like. You're kind of on like an education.
Speaker 1: You can't really, that's what it feels like. You can't
Speaker 1: really blame people for not being able to identify something
Speaker 1: that that just actually said, just for people if they
Speaker 1: want online. Are both of your testimonies, the one of
Speaker 1: the state level and the one of the national level,
Speaker 1: which are by the way, very different in a year
Speaker 1: apart from each other, and I'm very interesting we're going
Speaker 1: to get into actually if you don't mind, no technical
Speaker 1: of how you prepped for that. Absolutely, but I just
Speaker 1: want to say that like one of the experiences that
Speaker 1: I had listening to it was that it did feel
Speaker 1: like you were educating people on how laws don't reflect humans. Yeah. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: there's a lot we don't know about the legal system
Speaker 1: or the legal terms. And I will say the press
Speaker 1: takes advantage of that a lot in the way they
Speaker 1: spin cases. You had this line that you yes, you
Speaker 1: this line that you said where you were like, you
Speaker 1: know what you had you know conditioned in you, which, boy,
Speaker 1: does it sound like the sort of thing all of
Speaker 1: us grew up with was that when he hits you,
Speaker 1: you leave, and so if you haven't left, then there's
Speaker 1: something wrong with you. And then whose fault is that? Exactly? Fault?
Speaker 1: That's exactly And that's what a lot of people say,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, depending on who the perpetrator is
Speaker 1: Some people go, oh, well, what did you expect? Yeah,
Speaker 1: checking up with that guy thinks to happen. What were
Speaker 1: you wearing? Yeah, what we're wearing. It's the same thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's the same thing. So how did
Speaker 1: you prep They were two different experiences. I'm guessing they were. Um. Well,
Speaker 1: the first time I testified, somebody approached me about it.
Speaker 1: I wasn't planning on, you know, sharing my story with
Speaker 1: the world. But given the state of where we were
Speaker 1: and you know, our views on this kind of thing,
Speaker 1: I thought, oh god, if I don't tell my truth, now,
Speaker 1: what the hell am I doing? Like I'm being called
Speaker 1: to do it? What was that decision process? Like, was
Speaker 1: it a was it that or was it like sitting
Speaker 1: with it when I asked myself what I really stand for,
Speaker 1: what I really believe? And you know, it was you know,
Speaker 1: this is this is what you believed, and this is
Speaker 1: your time and you gotta take it. I would argue
Speaker 1: about the platform, but it's hard because like when when
Speaker 1: ME two came around, and the whole idea of telling
Speaker 1: your story with that hashtag was empowering and community building.
Speaker 1: It also I was struck. Watching all my friends post that,
Speaker 1: I was struck, being like, how dare society say that
Speaker 1: you have to go through something else? And then they
Speaker 1: finally with a no brainer. I mean, living your values
Speaker 1: is what you're saying you did, and that is you know,
Speaker 1: deserves all the everything. And also the other way of
Speaker 1: living your values would have been to say, like, I'm
Speaker 1: just going to protect myself and that's also fine. That
Speaker 1: would have been fine too. You know, there were times
Speaker 1: when I wasn't ready to say anything because I was
Speaker 1: too scared, and I also was open about my decision
Speaker 1: not to say anything, and I, you know, let people
Speaker 1: know it's not my fault that I'm too scared to
Speaker 1: say something. You know, it shouldn't be my responsibility. Hey,
Speaker 1: why don't we not also shame victim exactly? Um, but
Speaker 1: then we shame them when they do come forward as well.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what I was really afraid of,
Speaker 1: because there's already so much shame involved that just for
Speaker 1: my psyche, I thought, oh god, you know, I'm going
Speaker 1: to come forward. I'm gonna say all this stuff happened
Speaker 1: to me. And I just thought, what if I get creamed?
Speaker 1: You know, what if I get you know, drug again?
Speaker 1: Um uh no, um no. That the majority has been
Speaker 1: so supportive and was such a relief and meant so much.
Speaker 1: People's response was amazing. You know, now it's different because
Speaker 1: I think now it's really fun to spend me as
Speaker 1: a like angry feminists, and so now every time I
Speaker 1: do try to say something that to me, it just
Speaker 1: seems education based, like get like every Rachel food goes
Speaker 1: on rants or like every Rachel would And I'm like, whoa,
Speaker 1: what it feels like farthest you are from your from
Speaker 1: just telling your own story. The more that like suddenly
Speaker 1: you're a mouthpiece for some you know, nameless You're just
Speaker 1: nagging nazi. Yeah that's gone too far. You're nagging nippick
Speaker 1: T shirt that says feminist kill joy that I'm really
Speaker 1: by the way, it also in rainbow, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: But yeah, okay, So I want to talk just super
Speaker 1: specifics before we move on from this though, because how
Speaker 1: did you write it? Right? I mean, not because I
Speaker 1: just want to kind of probe, but because for people
Speaker 1: who are listening, who really are thinking about not just
Speaker 1: a presentation they have to give. That's like, let me
Speaker 1: show my amazing new idea, but rather something that is
Speaker 1: serving a larger purposely, as you said in one of
Speaker 1: your testimonies, like, this isn't about changing what would happen
Speaker 1: with your own case. It's actually about lending your voice
Speaker 1: to future people exactly. Yeah, the Phoenix Sack doesn't affect
Speaker 1: my case, but I didn't want anybody to have to
Speaker 1: go through what I went through. I wanted my evidence
Speaker 1: to matter. There were provisions in the Phoenix Act that
Speaker 1: we had that got taken out at the last minute,
Speaker 1: not by us, which was disappointing, because we had a
Speaker 1: clause in there where three or more women came forward
Speaker 1: than their sati limitations would temporarily be lifted, so that
Speaker 1: would stop serial abusers, which was a big deal if
Speaker 1: we had some of those in the US, you know.
Speaker 1: But anyway, they gutted that from our bill. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: still fighting for that. That's another fight. But the prep
Speaker 1: for it, you know, I was working with other survivors
Speaker 1: at the time, and I let them read it because
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to make it all about the
Speaker 1: world and this and that, and they were like, you know,
Speaker 1: I know, it's really tempting to say everything you want
Speaker 1: to say in this, but remember this is a testimy,
Speaker 1: this is your experience, and you just need to tell
Speaker 1: the truth about your experience, and that helps. So I
Speaker 1: condensed it more to just here are the facts, here's
Speaker 1: my truth, you know, and also here are a couple
Speaker 1: of things I want to say about how we raised boys,
Speaker 1: and you know the our our views on this. But ultimately,
Speaker 1: you know, I just poured my heart out and they
Speaker 1: only give you two minutes to tell your life's trauma.
Speaker 1: You know, there's literally a timer in front of you
Speaker 1: that's taking down as you're reliving all the worst moments
Speaker 1: of your life. And it was an complete out of
Speaker 1: body experience. Were you just like in the moment, what
Speaker 1: were you telling yourself? I was so scared. I don't
Speaker 1: think I've ever been more scared to do anything in
Speaker 1: my life. Like I get choked up just thinking about it,
Speaker 1: Like walking into that room, the House of the House
Speaker 1: of Representative Room Congress, going to the underground tunnels in
Speaker 1: Washington and coming into that room and staring them all
Speaker 1: in the face and knowing why I was there. You're
Speaker 1: just going, this is not my life. What the funk
Speaker 1: am I doing here? Sorry? I don't over a lot
Speaker 1: of by w there is no way that this is
Speaker 1: real and that I'm actually having to do this right now.
Speaker 1: You know, there's nothing about me that's going this is
Speaker 1: my story. Yeah, you're going this can't be right. So
Speaker 1: what made you like continue walking? Were you just like
Speaker 1: keeping yeah, just keep going, just keep walking, keep walking?
Speaker 1: And I just took a deep breath and did it,
Speaker 1: you know. But I also, Um, I devour like ted
Speaker 1: talks and speeches, and I'm always moved. I a good speech,
Speaker 1: you know that flows and you know, tells a story,
Speaker 1: reveals itself in the right way, leads you to this
Speaker 1: kind of amazing conclusion that's also a little open ended,
Speaker 1: so that you get to, you know, have your own
Speaker 1: opinions about it. I devour those all the time, and
Speaker 1: so I feel like I maybe have an understanding of
Speaker 1: how they work, and I think I've been pretty good
Speaker 1: at being able to give them. Um, I'm a mess
Speaker 1: in my everyday life in normal conversation, I'm super awkward.
Speaker 1: But if I can write it down, I'm serious. If
Speaker 1: I can write it down and be able to look
Speaker 1: at it and revise it, I can get to a
Speaker 1: really good place with my words. But I usually fumble.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite moments from your concert that I
Speaker 1: got to see this weekend is a moment when you
Speaker 1: said on stage, if you're a California resident, you have
Speaker 1: more rights now. Yes, And it was like that version
Speaker 1: of you that has gone through that that isn't the
Speaker 1: same girl who is in that no space either at
Speaker 1: the time of you know, everything that was happening to
Speaker 1: and also at the time of having to relive it.
Speaker 1: But like what you um the reward, the reward was great. Um.
Speaker 1: I remember the second time I testified, I thought, well,
Speaker 1: it'll be easier this time because I've done it once. Boy,
Speaker 1: was I wrong to me that one felt from the
Speaker 1: outside watching the one that was the closer. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: the first one was about a very specific law and
Speaker 1: the second one was really, hey, this is my story
Speaker 1: and this is why this law was important, And it
Speaker 1: was just they were different angles, same topics, but yes,
Speaker 1: it was the goal was different, so what I decided
Speaker 1: to tell changed And yeah, the second one was very difficult,
Speaker 1: and there was also so much writing on it. That
Speaker 1: was our first vote, and so we really didn't know
Speaker 1: what was going to happen. It was either going to
Speaker 1: live or die on our testimonies. I also wonder there's
Speaker 1: like a stereotype about this, so tell me if it
Speaker 1: feels true or not. But when you're acting, and probably
Speaker 1: when you're singing, there is a persona that you can
Speaker 1: put on that feels safer. Yeah. Yeah, there's a meditative space.
Speaker 1: It's the flow state. You know. I'm big into the flow.
Speaker 1: That's always my goal. If I can't remember doing half
Speaker 1: of my shows, then that's a great sign to me
Speaker 1: because that means I was just in a flow state.
Speaker 1: I was just in it, you know, I wasn't thinking.
Speaker 1: And same thing with scenes. You know if I black
Speaker 1: out during a scene, and that means I was just
Speaker 1: completely in it. Well, now it sounds like you actually
Speaker 1: had some of that experience then when you were doing
Speaker 1: the congressional stuff too, So you just you go into
Speaker 1: blackouts every once in a while. And yes, it shouldn't
Speaker 1: be worried. It's true though, it's a I do. It's
Speaker 1: a meditative place. What does it feel like on stage
Speaker 1: when you're singing? How is it as a communication. It's
Speaker 1: like opening the doors to my heart and you know,
Speaker 1: like a flock of birds flying out. That's what it
Speaker 1: feels like. I just love it. I know it sounds
Speaker 1: so cheesy, but it's true. It's like that's where I
Speaker 1: feel the most expanded, because again, I feel like sometimes
Speaker 1: language can be limiting, but music is so complicated and nuanced,
Speaker 1: and like one little note or inflection of a word
Speaker 1: can change the whole meaning. Um, you know, and sometimes
Speaker 1: you don't even need words, you just need sounds and
Speaker 1: you understand. So I don't know, I just feel like
Speaker 1: also the I'm talking specifically about the Evan and Zane
Speaker 1: show for people who are listening, which is so delightful
Speaker 1: and as you said when I was there, it's like
Speaker 1: a cover band but not it's like experience. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: just like such top notch you know, performance and talent
Speaker 1: and creativity and your guys band part of the band
Speaker 1: are also just struck me. When I was thinking about
Speaker 1: interviewing you that it's a real version of you, it's not.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was thinking about the idea of an
Speaker 1: alter ego, and maybe you think about that too, but
Speaker 1: it also feels like the dream with the real alter
Speaker 1: ego is it's not somebody who isn't you? The heightened
Speaker 1: version of you? Yeah, it's like that you with who
Speaker 1: who's standing in her power. One might say, yeah, standing
Speaker 1: in your light, taking your space, Yeah, which is weirdly
Speaker 1: hard for me to do. And I'm usually I'm always
Speaker 1: nervous when I do those shows, by the way, like
Speaker 1: the first two songs, I'm always shaking, and it's just
Speaker 1: because I care so much and I love the songs
Speaker 1: and I just want to do them justice, and I
Speaker 1: get really nervous. You also have a room full of
Speaker 1: people who are there because they already get you exactly,
Speaker 1: and you know, our audience matters. You know, a more
Speaker 1: hostile audience obviously gets us in our head more. But
Speaker 1: sometimes the audience that knows you're good makes me get
Speaker 1: in my head, you know, because when you're expectations, somebody
Speaker 1: do with that. You're just like, expectations make me get
Speaker 1: in my head more than anything, honestly. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: a perfectionism streak is Yeah, it is hard. Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 1: It makes you better and also, you know, it's like
Speaker 1: an endless conversation. I find for this podcast, there's an
Speaker 1: endless conversation with myself of the same thing I tell
Speaker 1: my client ants, which is authentic is better than articulate,
Speaker 1: Like let's just say something that feels real. Um, we're
Speaker 1: going to take a quick break. And so we were
Speaker 1: talking about singing. Um, I can't not mention queen. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: you've become a Disney princess, Disney queen. I'm so sorry,
Speaker 1: Disney queen. A promotion A promotion? Yeah really wild? Um, Actually,
Speaker 1: now that I think about it, there aren't a lot
Speaker 1: of Disney queens that are good characters. No, they're usually
Speaker 1: quite evil and get killed off. They always get I
Speaker 1: mean yeah, I mean I said, the only thing as
Speaker 1: cool as being a Disney princess is being a Disney
Speaker 1: mom that dies, because I mean one thing told me
Speaker 1: when doesn't die. No, it's actually the same with Shakespeare,
Speaker 1: like lots of missing moms. Yeah, it's a it's a
Speaker 1: how was that experience a wild? What's crazy is we
Speaker 1: had just done it an Evan and Zane show that
Speaker 1: was a Disney theme and I got the call and
Speaker 1: I didn't get to read the script or anything. We
Speaker 1: got the breakdown of the character and I went, I
Speaker 1: know this, I know what to do. I know And
Speaker 1: I listened to Dina and Kristen Bell and um, I thought, okay,
Speaker 1: if I can incorporate some of their sounds into her,
Speaker 1: but make it but slightly age it a bit and
Speaker 1: make it a little you know, more maternal. You know,
Speaker 1: then you'll go, oh, that's on a Nelson's mom, like
Speaker 1: I can hear it. And so that's what I tried
Speaker 1: to do with the audition and it worked. And it's
Speaker 1: a lullaby, so as somebody who's seen you on stage, like,
Speaker 1: really belt it doesn't give you that. No, it was
Speaker 1: much harder to sing quietly. Actually, when I first got
Speaker 1: into do the first recording, I came in and I'm
Speaker 1: fresh off the boat doing Evan and Zane like LOUNGI,
Speaker 1: you know, smokey shows. And they were like, Okay, first
Speaker 1: of all, we gotta whatever you're doing, we gotta stop.
Speaker 1: And I was like, what, Like, we gotta get you
Speaker 1: way up into the front of your face, you know,
Speaker 1: you're you're down here, like up here, and I was like,
Speaker 1: right right, Disney, right, And so that was kind of
Speaker 1: our first so interesting. I love it. Yeah, yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a very specific placement for Disney. I feel like, um,
Speaker 1: it almost feels like what they wanted was like untouched
Speaker 1: by well, certainly untouched by the modern world, but even
Speaker 1: just untouched by the world, because a lot of our
Speaker 1: voice lowering stuff happens when we're like, oh, you don't
Speaker 1: take me seriously up high, Well, then let me find
Speaker 1: something right. But it was to strip that away and
Speaker 1: just say, what if we lived in this fantasy world
Speaker 1: where that's not necessary. Exactly exactly, and I read somewhere
Speaker 1: that you've sung this song to your child. I did. Yeah.
Speaker 1: When I went to audition. I told him I was
Speaker 1: going to audition for a Disney movie and he said,
Speaker 1: I hope they clapped for you. And then I went
Speaker 1: in and a little bit of a British accent, a
Speaker 1: little yeah when he says certain words. His father's British,
Speaker 1: so every now and he's like, can I chocolate? And
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, very cute, and his British accent when
Speaker 1: he'll he'll turn it on and start doing characters, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, that is my song. Um. Anyway, when
Speaker 1: I went in into the audition, and after I sang,
Speaker 1: they did clap, and so I came home I went,
Speaker 1: guess what the clap? But then I didn't hear anything
Speaker 1: back for a couple of months, and I just got
Speaker 1: the call randomly on the day that I was going
Speaker 1: to Disneyland. So the yeah, it was framed by Disney experiences.
Speaker 1: That's delightful. What was like, um, I cried. I mean
Speaker 1: it was like a dream come true. I had learned.
Speaker 1: Disney taught me how to sing, you know, and I
Speaker 1: used to I used to get the CDs when they
Speaker 1: came out, but they were in that long remember West
Speaker 1: to get CDs came in that long packaging, and it
Speaker 1: was like the size of a plank of wood. And
Speaker 1: I had beating the Beast, a little Mermaid and all
Speaker 1: those things that we could like see them in the
Speaker 1: files right yeah, in the old record file yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: and had the track listening. So I used to act
Speaker 1: them out at home a lot um and it was
Speaker 1: my dream. It was like you have professional singing training,
Speaker 1: I had a bit. I started in musical theater and
Speaker 1: so the first thing I learned was to use my voice.
Speaker 1: First thing I did was go into a you know,
Speaker 1: groups of people and learn how to sing in a choir.
Speaker 1: And I was originally a soprano um and then taught
Speaker 1: myself how to do all too. And then you know,
Speaker 1: and then I hung out in lounges and then then
Speaker 1: I got turned onto p J. Harvey and like Peggy Lee,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I wanna learn how to do this, um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so first it was you know, vocal exercises
Speaker 1: and you know, learning how to project to the back
Speaker 1: row and learning how to take care of your voice,
Speaker 1: but to be able to sing every night and voices
Speaker 1: like tips and that that come to mind. Well, I
Speaker 1: I did get vocal notes once and it was so
Speaker 1: depressing because singing is like my heart and I couldn't
Speaker 1: do it because I had notes, and it was like
Speaker 1: so depressing. I really fell the doves. All the doves started, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they were their wings were clipped. It was terrible, and
Speaker 1: so I had to go to speech therapy. And that's
Speaker 1: when I realized that I had kind of done what
Speaker 1: you were talking about. Throughout the years, my voice had
Speaker 1: progressed with gutten lower and like my normal speaking voice
Speaker 1: was like cutting down here. And she was like, if
Speaker 1: you're going to be a singer, you cannot do that.
Speaker 1: You have to hold yourself to a higher set of standards.
Speaker 1: And so she taught me how to, you know, in
Speaker 1: my everyday life, speak more a pure to give my
Speaker 1: and I have to say exact same experience in my
Speaker 1: mid twenties, and and part of the psychological half of
Speaker 1: that was hearing that voice back, either like in recordings
Speaker 1: or in my own head and just having to like
Speaker 1: tell myself that person does not sound dumb. Yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: which is like patriarchy. Great, yeah, great, it turns out
Speaker 1: I've picked up all the lessons that I shouldn't have.
Speaker 1: It's still hard when I need to rest my voice
Speaker 1: and I have to speak really high. I don't. It doesn't.
Speaker 1: I think that is where it comes from. You just think, oh,
Speaker 1: people are going to think of But also when you do,
Speaker 1: like how many songs that you do two nights together,
Speaker 1: forty something for me, you know, that's a marathon a lot.
Speaker 1: It's a lot. I don't mean that's been a question.
Speaker 1: I'm literally just pointing out like it is. But I do,
Speaker 1: I do. I do vocal warm ups. I still have
Speaker 1: a woman that I go to every now and then
Speaker 1: because it's I think your voice is just one of
Speaker 1: those things that's always changing, and you know, there's always
Speaker 1: room for improvement, or you don't use it for a
Speaker 1: while and then you gotta you know, work the muscles
Speaker 1: up and go back to what are those good ones again? Yeah,
Speaker 1: sometimes I go, you know, saying at the top of
Speaker 1: my lungs and places without warming up and really regret it.
Speaker 1: That's a terrible idea. Please don't do that. Only the
Speaker 1: older we get, the more our buddy is not forgiving.
Speaker 1: It's learned my lesson. It's so not a good idea.
Speaker 1: Now people would be like, hey, can you come and
Speaker 1: like sing at this party I'm doing And I'm sure
Speaker 1: on my way there. I'm like, I don't even care
Speaker 1: about warming up in front of people anymore. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: They're like, what are you doing. I'm like, I'm saving
Speaker 1: my vo brace is what I'm doing. Um, I have
Speaker 1: a hard hitting journalistic question from my four and a
Speaker 1: half year old, which, unfortunately, as I did research for you,
Speaker 1: I already got the answer for us. So now it's
Speaker 1: totally disingenuous. But I love that when I was thinking
Speaker 1: about interviewing you, I remember that when we saw Frozen
Speaker 1: to my child and I afterwards we had such a
Speaker 1: like philosophical conversation about who the voice was. She continues
Speaker 1: to hear and he's like, and this is my favorite part.
Speaker 1: He's like, it's obviously the mom yeah, and it turns
Speaker 1: out you did not do the That is Aurora, but
Speaker 1: it is also um young Queena Douna, So it is Um.
Speaker 1: I think in the film they say when the forest,
Speaker 1: you know, when the spell goes over the forest and
Speaker 1: closes everybody in. They said, some people say that you
Speaker 1: could hear the Fifth Spirit call out on that day,
Speaker 1: but it was actually Queena Douna calling out when she
Speaker 1: was saving Prince agnar Um. So I think it's a
Speaker 1: mixture of Young Queen Douna and Aurora. And I want
Speaker 1: to say, there's like a fever dream that I have
Speaker 1: of me doing it once, but I don't remember if
Speaker 1: I did or not. I bet to see if. But
Speaker 1: I think doing different people doing that. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: bunch of different. I just love the idea that my
Speaker 1: son would think that it was the mom. I love
Speaker 1: that because clearly it should it kind of is. It
Speaker 1: is the past. It is her mom from the past. Um.
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's brilliant about that. Lower by I
Speaker 1: mean the fact that all of the secrets are hidden
Speaker 1: in that. It's I mean storytelling wise, it's great. Wow
Speaker 1: do they do it so? West World? What is it like?
Speaker 1: What is the like additional sort of leadership responsibility that
Speaker 1: you feel. It was a new thing for me. I
Speaker 1: had never um been at the helm of something quite
Speaker 1: like that, and I didn't know what my place really
Speaker 1: was at first until there were moments where I would
Speaker 1: you know, this just happens on all sets. You're like,
Speaker 1: oh man, those extras really need water, it's really hot.
Speaker 1: Or I don't really like the way that person speaking
Speaker 1: in this person, or I don't know, I feel like
Speaker 1: we should rehearse first and maybe block later, you know,
Speaker 1: And there's all these things and I started to voice
Speaker 1: these things to the producers and they were like, dude,
Speaker 1: you gotta just say this. And I was like, what
Speaker 1: are you talking about? And they were like, you're number
Speaker 1: one on the call sheet, like we need you to
Speaker 1: be the one to say these things. And I thought, oh, right,
Speaker 1: like that is this is a new thing. So it
Speaker 1: was like I had permission suddenly to you know, also
Speaker 1: kind of be mother hand a little bit, um yeah,
Speaker 1: and say things that other people couldn't say, and speak
Speaker 1: up for people that may be too afraid to say.
Speaker 1: It seems almost like this is a pattern in your life. Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean does it? Does it? It also probably puts
Speaker 1: I don't know, actually I shouldn't say that. Does it
Speaker 1: put you into inconvenient positions because it seems like when
Speaker 1: you're the number one on the show, not necessarily because
Speaker 1: people are really really conditioned to be like, what she needs,
Speaker 1: she gets. Yeah, I am almost too easy to work
Speaker 1: with sometimes, probably because of being a kid actor. You
Speaker 1: just kind of you're like, oh, should I say something.
Speaker 1: I'm used to be like whatever you want me to do,
Speaker 1: especially as a woman, you don't want to come across
Speaker 1: as difficult and literally that words ute unquote ask for
Speaker 1: what you need that And definitely women are held to
Speaker 1: a much higher standard than men on sets when they
Speaker 1: demand for things that they need and when a man
Speaker 1: does it or when you know, I've been on sets
Speaker 1: where you know, actors start wrecking the set because they
Speaker 1: can't remember their lines, you know, and I don't hear
Speaker 1: anybody talking smack about them. Afterwards they're like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: that was awesome, Tod just see that. They're so brilliant
Speaker 1: and it's like a fun story. But if a woman
Speaker 1: did that, they'd be like, bitch, like wreck the set,
Speaker 1: like there's so much so so there is there is
Speaker 1: a there is a double standard there for sure that
Speaker 1: I can definitely still feel. But luckily West World is
Speaker 1: an incredible set and they have a massive amount of
Speaker 1: respect for the women that work on the show. In
Speaker 1: season three, half of the season is directed by women,
Speaker 1: including the finale, so they've done a great job at
Speaker 1: ushering in a lot of female directors. Does it feel
Speaker 1: different working with a female director? Yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: obviously not only under the same I don't need to
Speaker 1: make it a yeah. Um, you know, sometimes it is
Speaker 1: and sometimes it isn't. But you know, I said yes,
Speaker 1: but honestly, no, there isn't really that much of a difference.
Speaker 1: I think only so that because one of them was
Speaker 1: specifically really good about working with the actors and speaking
Speaker 1: our language. But I don't think that's because she was
Speaker 1: a woman. Um to me, it was an actor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: To me, it feels like sometimes it isn't about the
Speaker 1: fact that the director is a woman as much as
Speaker 1: it's that like when a woman is in charge of
Speaker 1: the show, even just for that you know, week and
Speaker 1: a half or whatever that you're shooting that episode, it
Speaker 1: changes about the power dynamic in the entire hundred fifty
Speaker 1: person crew and it's nice. I mean also sometimes that's
Speaker 1: when I've noticed being on sets that like some of
Speaker 1: the do choose to be louder about the things they
Speaker 1: don't like about women who demand things. So sometimes ship
Speaker 1: comes out of the closet when there's a woman in charge.
Speaker 1: But overall, it also is like we're teaching people that
Speaker 1: this is what female leadership is. You know, get used
Speaker 1: to it and it's okay. You don't have to feel
Speaker 1: like your mom is telling you to clean your room,
Speaker 1: which I feel like is a lot of the vibe
Speaker 1: you get sometimes like I'm not telling you to pick
Speaker 1: your shoes up off the floor. I just need you
Speaker 1: to move the flag. Everybody, everybody, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it's a serious, it's a serious, it's a conversation,
Speaker 1: it's a thing. But you know it's also yeah, we're
Speaker 1: all learning, and we're all learning together, and you know,
Speaker 1: we've all been the product of major brainwashing that we're
Speaker 1: all trying to undo and you know, some of us more,
Speaker 1: more trying more than others. Yeah, you know, but hopefully
Speaker 1: we'll get there. Um do you do you have sort
Speaker 1: of a process for choosing projects, Especially the older you
Speaker 1: get in the more you're actually I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: not an older you get things. You've been doing this
Speaker 1: your whole life. In terms of like trying to do
Speaker 1: stuff that feels right, I think that's really what is.
Speaker 1: I just follow my gut, um, and I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't let the fear of I have to do something, um,
Speaker 1: you know, make me do something that I don't want
Speaker 1: to do, because I just know by now if my
Speaker 1: heart's not in it, and I'm not going to be
Speaker 1: very good and I'm gonna be miserable, and it's just
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have time away from my son, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's just the thing I don't want to do. But UM,
Speaker 1: are you thinking about directing or producing? Well, you know,
Speaker 1: I've directed a couple of music videos. I did shoot
Speaker 1: a short film that I wrote with Leah Thompson, UM,
Speaker 1: which I'm still in the process of doing the special
Speaker 1: effects for. Um. Are you adding hoverboards? Right? Yeah? With
Speaker 1: the DeLorean, Um, that was such a great moment. I
Speaker 1: loved every minute of it. But um, she was actually
Speaker 1: the first actor that I ever heard speak words that
Speaker 1: I wrote and it was so cool to watch. Um,
Speaker 1: somebody that really knew what they were doing. Say something
Speaker 1: that you wrote and was going of works, it's working,
Speaker 1: exactually working. Yes, So I did direct that I and
Speaker 1: I like it. I did pitch a film that I
Speaker 1: wrote for a couple of years, which actually is no
Speaker 1: time at all when you're pitching a film, but so
Speaker 1: depressing because honestly, I had an all female cast with
Speaker 1: me and Jenny Slate and Cynthia Riva who just got
Speaker 1: dominated for an Oscar and Alison pill Like, what an
Speaker 1: awesome cast. No one would give us money to make
Speaker 1: the movie. Anybody listening is so and we were like, okay,
Speaker 1: yayn going to blow up? But did nobody listened to us? Um?
Speaker 1: But that experience was kind of so discouraging that I
Speaker 1: was like, I am not ready to do this right now.
Speaker 1: Like on top of my history and the Feenix Act
Speaker 1: and everything else, I was like, I can't be in
Speaker 1: another pitch room that is so sexist and there are
Speaker 1: no people of coloring here, and there are no women
Speaker 1: in these rooms, and I am I just couldn't. I
Speaker 1: didn't have the stomach for it. Maybe one day I will.
Speaker 1: But I actually spoke to Ron Howard about it, who
Speaker 1: I worked with, and I ran into him and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, you know, I'm I'm thinking about directing.
Speaker 1: And I said, Ron, how do you do this? How
Speaker 1: do you work with these people? And He's like, you
Speaker 1: gotta really want to do it, And I thought, maybe,
Speaker 1: I you may need to wait until it's this uncontrollable
Speaker 1: urge that I can't stifle anymore. Boy. I mean, I
Speaker 1: hear that, and I also think, like clearly, maybe yes,
Speaker 1: you really need to want to do it, but also
Speaker 1: you really need to be game for the hustle. And
Speaker 1: I don't think you're hustle and Ron's hustle are the same,
Speaker 1: so they're not No, they're not. Um, and I just
Speaker 1: don't think I was game for the hustle right now. Man,
Speaker 1: I need a second. I just couldn't do it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I accepted defeat on that one for now. Um, but
Speaker 1: that's not to say later on in life I wouldn't
Speaker 1: really love to do it. I have a few quick questions. One,
Speaker 1: do you have a mom voice? Yeah? And it hears
Speaker 1: me because it's my mom's voice, you know, you know
Speaker 1: those moments were like oh my god, that is my mom. Um.
Speaker 1: It depends, you know, there's like sweet mom voice and
Speaker 1: then there's like Okay, seriously, I've said this five times.
Speaker 1: You gotta go do this right now. I feel very
Speaker 1: like I feel like my acting background really comes out
Speaker 1: with my kid, not necessarily because I'm acting differently than
Speaker 1: I'm feeling, but that I'm like, I know how to
Speaker 1: change my voice to get what I want well, And
Speaker 1: they teach you that in parenting class. You know, to
Speaker 1: when you want them to listen to you in a
Speaker 1: certain way, to lower the register of your voice, not
Speaker 1: necessarily get louder, but it's a register thing that they
Speaker 1: say actually works. Yeah, it's that's so weird that like
Speaker 1: going like I can't learner to listen to me. It
Speaker 1: doesn't work. It's very true. Yeah, yeah, interesting. Maybe I
Speaker 1: should have a parenting expert on to talk about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a that's a I mean, I would argue that
Speaker 1: because the whole lowering voice thing is there, it's so
Speaker 1: fraught for women especially, but that the other half of it,
Speaker 1: besides just you know, lower your voice to the extent
Speaker 1: that you get vocal nodules, the other half of it
Speaker 1: is that um a uh, the more stressed we get
Speaker 1: the moment, the more adrenaline hits our vocal cords. Et
Speaker 1: center the more we go up, so some of that
Speaker 1: is actually just pretending to sound calm. Yeah, well that's
Speaker 1: so interesting, right interesting. Then you know kids pick that
Speaker 1: shut up yeah, and they're like, Okay, maybe I should
Speaker 1: be calm now. My next question is, let's talked to
Speaker 1: us for a second about how you use social media,
Speaker 1: because I know you were talking early about your platform,
Speaker 1: and it really strikes me for somebody like you who's
Speaker 1: really embraced social media in certain ways, I mean you're
Speaker 1: on Twitter a lot, it really is this double edged sword.
Speaker 1: There is an opportunity to be seen and to you know,
Speaker 1: foment movements whatever, to bring people together in a way
Speaker 1: that is not should not be denied when we're talking
Speaker 1: about the ills of social media, and also you're using
Speaker 1: your platform in a way that also just fully exposes yourself. Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I like using it as a conversation starter and as
Speaker 1: an educational tool. And if you follow me, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't really like competition or getting into fights with people.
Speaker 1: I like listening and learning, and if there is a
Speaker 1: blind spot that I've had, I'm very open to hearing
Speaker 1: what that is. If somebody is willing to have an
Speaker 1: honest conversation with me about it and not just yell
Speaker 1: at me. You know, I'm like I was saying, when
Speaker 1: things that I say get really taken out of context
Speaker 1: and turned into this uh every riginal with attack on
Speaker 1: so and so, you know, when really I'm just I'm
Speaker 1: trying to have a conversation. And that's something that the
Speaker 1: media does in a farm tweets um, you know, and
Speaker 1: also legalize them, and it's also weaponized against us. Sure.
Speaker 1: The issue with social media is it doesn't wait for
Speaker 1: anybody either. It's the wild West. It's a public form
Speaker 1: where everything happens in real time, and so you have
Speaker 1: to know that when you're stepping into that space, you know,
Speaker 1: and you're not always going to like the things that
Speaker 1: you want to hear. But I always hope that we
Speaker 1: strive to, you know, be people that we'll listen to
Speaker 1: one another, you know, to voice our concerns when we're hurt.
Speaker 1: You know. It's it's when my safety comes into question
Speaker 1: where I think we've got to mentally prepare yourself for
Speaker 1: like when you're going to be sort of hopping. Sometimes
Speaker 1: I did in the world. Sometimes I don't work and
Speaker 1: for play, absolutely, I mean I have had to take
Speaker 1: a lot of breaks from it recently, you know, even before,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of controversy went down, mainly just
Speaker 1: because it wasn't healthy for me. And I also think
Speaker 1: it's a false reality. There's a lot on Twitter that's
Speaker 1: not even real, and it's there to keep us fighting
Speaker 1: and in conflict. And you know, we purposely shake the
Speaker 1: jar ants or not we but you know, the media,
Speaker 1: but um or the Russians or you know, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Yeah, there's there's so many different influences
Speaker 1: on that platform, um, and one day we'll it'll be
Speaker 1: studied and we'll be able to see it all for
Speaker 1: what it is and look at it and go, oh, ship,
Speaker 1: this wasn't even real. But and then what would we do?
Speaker 1: Literally then what we do? Because we probably still just
Speaker 1: keep using it? So and we do and I do, um,
Speaker 1: you know, but I have deleted the app off of
Speaker 1: my phone just so I can't readily just kind of click,
Speaker 1: you know anytime I'm bored to go into it, because
Speaker 1: it was it was bad for my psyche, and I
Speaker 1: do mentally prepare sometimes, but honestly, sometimes I don't think
Speaker 1: I'm saying anything that controversial, and it turns into something
Speaker 1: and I just feel like I'm being very honest. And
Speaker 1: so you know, those are moments when you know, my
Speaker 1: eyes and ears are open and I and I want
Speaker 1: to learn. But again, you know, it's when my safety
Speaker 1: comes into into in with good faith and then like
Speaker 1: the internet is like, we're not going to show it
Speaker 1: back to you. Yeah, yeah, you should die a horrible death.
Speaker 1: Um that I don't agree with. I will always talk
Speaker 1: about a controversial point, do you know what I mean? Um?
Speaker 1: So you know, I always listen to people if if
Speaker 1: they have something to say, you know, and I'm and
Speaker 1: I'll never say, you know, I'm always right about anything
Speaker 1: because I'm not and I'm not perfect, you know. But
Speaker 1: I can't hear you if you're threatening my life, I can't.
Speaker 1: We can't actually get anywhere. Where are the parenting classes
Speaker 1: for the you know, for the bullies online? Oh? I
Speaker 1: don't know. You know, there's bullies online, there's bully rags everywhere.
Speaker 1: We're very anti bullying, but you know, we're still fine
Speaker 1: with all of the tabloids being all of our grocery
Speaker 1: stores and drug stores at eye level with our kids.
Speaker 1: You know. So what do you think those are those
Speaker 1: are just bullying. That's just that's just printed bullying. It's
Speaker 1: been there forever. So it's the same thing. You know,
Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna take a quick brick and we're gonna
Speaker 1: come back and find out whose voice you have picked
Speaker 1: to share. I guess so I have hut up somebody
Speaker 1: that Evan has chosen for us to listen to her
Speaker 1: voice and talk about it a little bit. First, I
Speaker 1: just want to ask you, Evan, who have you I
Speaker 1: have picked Renee Brown, who are not familiar a has
Speaker 1: a terrific voice. I feel like it's she. I feel
Speaker 1: like everyone is familiar with her now, I think so.
Speaker 1: But I deliberately picked a bit from her early ted
Speaker 1: talk to Numero. You know, yes, but yes, you were saying,
Speaker 1: she's a grateful she has a fantastic voice, and she
Speaker 1: uses it very well. Yeah, I think so too. She's
Speaker 1: very relatable but very profound, and she's got that little
Speaker 1: Southern twang. It's great. I mean, that's truly all the stuff,
Speaker 1: and it's and like leveraging that instead of hiding behind that,
Speaker 1: which you know, her whole thing is about shame and vulnerability,
Speaker 1: so not hiding behind it is a good thing. The
Speaker 1: idea with these little segments where we talk about this
Speaker 1: stuff is that often when we think about women's voices,
Speaker 1: it's hard to call to mind the voices of the
Speaker 1: women in our lives that we admire. And we might
Speaker 1: think of our mom or we might think of, you know,
Speaker 1: the one or two women who have been lauded to
Speaker 1: such an extent, the Oprah's of the world, and those
Speaker 1: people deserve to get attention as well. But the reality
Speaker 1: is there are so many women who are killing it.
Speaker 1: And I don't even necessarily want to talk about women only.
Speaker 1: This is people who are not the archetype of power
Speaker 1: that we've come to, you know, here when we hear
Speaker 1: the straight white man, probably rich, probably stoic, or like
Speaker 1: not revealing emotion in the way that seems natural to us,
Speaker 1: and we're like, if we're not that, then we're not
Speaker 1: worthy of power. And that's the you know, that's the
Speaker 1: assumption I want to break. Yeah, the vision of power
Speaker 1: is changing. The vision of power is changing, and we
Speaker 1: get to use this time to like listen to some
Speaker 1: of the people who are really doing it so that
Speaker 1: they can come to mind, so that we can be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I think I'm this type, or we can be like
Speaker 1: I am a new type. Yeah anyway, Okay, So here's
Speaker 1: a little bit of brine that we just listen to
Speaker 1: real fast. I hate vulnerability, and so I thought, this
Speaker 1: is my chance to beat it back with my marriage
Speaker 1: ring stick. I'm going in, I'm going to figure this
Speaker 1: stuff out. I'm going to spend a year. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: totally deconstruct shame. I'm gonna understand how vulnerability works, and
Speaker 1: I'm going to outsmart it. So I was ready, and
Speaker 1: I was really excited, as you know, it's not gonna
Speaker 1: turn out well. Um, I mean I love that moment
Speaker 1: at the end because it's so I don't think she
Speaker 1: was planning on saying that. If you look back and
Speaker 1: look at it, I think she was really planning on
Speaker 1: just moving ahead. And then something that I want to
Speaker 1: point out is she read she read the room, and
Speaker 1: she was like, ah, I set that up in a
Speaker 1: way where if I just move on now, I'm going
Speaker 1: to seem inauthentic. And there's this huge laugh that happens
Speaker 1: after that moment of this release. Because one of the
Speaker 1: biggest things that we need to do when we're, you know,
Speaker 1: in front of an audience is like acknowledge what's really happening. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: which is scary. Read the energy energy, and also read
Speaker 1: if you've made a mistake or whatever. Absolutely, absolutely you
Speaker 1: can't just plan on what you're going to do. One
Speaker 1: of the best things I ever learned in acting class
Speaker 1: I learned with a couch ball, and and it was
Speaker 1: how my acting coach proved to us you cannot just
Speaker 1: practice how you're going to do it. And he was like, okay,
Speaker 1: stand up, throws me the ball. I catch it. He goes, great,
Speaker 1: Now throw it back and now catch it in the
Speaker 1: exact same way that you caught it the first time
Speaker 1: in my hands in the same place, And of course
Speaker 1: he throws it right and I can't catch it. And
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, you have no idea how I'm gonna
Speaker 1: throw the ball, so you cannot plan for those I
Speaker 1: don't do that yea, which is also really scary, both
Speaker 1: of your an actor and also if you're you know,
Speaker 1: public speaking, but if something goes a little awry. I
Speaker 1: remember I used to coach hosts who were working on
Speaker 1: transitioning from being sort of expert in their real lives
Speaker 1: to doing the media version of that. On television, so
Speaker 1: they didn't necessarily have the same acting background that we might.
Speaker 1: And I really had to teach them that those moments
Speaker 1: that you sunk up and then acknowledge the funk up
Speaker 1: is when the audience falls in love with you. It's true,
Speaker 1: and trying pretend that a moment that just happened didn't
Speaker 1: is a recipe for disaster, or at least for disconnection.
Speaker 1: And the whole point is we want to connect authentic
Speaker 1: with our audience and other things about her that are
Speaker 1: working so well, you know, I think part of the
Speaker 1: reason that she's connected with people as is what you said,
Speaker 1: there's a Southern nous to her. She's not hiding that.
Speaker 1: She's got a sort of a folksy energy. She has
Speaker 1: this little litany in this where she says, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do this, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this.
Speaker 1: But she's an academic, so she could very well have
Speaker 1: said I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this,
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this. And it's these tiny like
Speaker 1: opportunities we give ourselves when we're on stage to not
Speaker 1: be formal. Yes, like talk about permission to speak, you
Speaker 1: have permission to sound like the same person that you
Speaker 1: would have sounded like off stage. And by the way,
Speaker 1: the further away our authentic voice is from that kind
Speaker 1: of archetype of power, the heart of that is and
Speaker 1: the more it is a calculation. And I'm not saying
Speaker 1: one size fits all, but i am saying that I'm
Speaker 1: interested in pushing those boundaries a little bit because we
Speaker 1: had to teach people what power sounds like we do
Speaker 1: and teach people how to speak to people in a
Speaker 1: way that they'll be heard. Yeah, yeah, it's a big thing.
Speaker 1: I know. There's also this whole like are you working
Speaker 1: within the system or or just like burning the system down?
Speaker 1: So there is a little bit of that sense of like,
Speaker 1: do what you have to do to negotiate until you have,
Speaker 1: for example, the power to be on a stage, whether
Speaker 1: it's attach or not, knowledge to back at um. But
Speaker 1: then once you're there, you know, just like you when
Speaker 1: you're the lead on a show, you know, how do
Speaker 1: we leverage the new power we have to normalize things
Speaker 1: that have not been normalized until now. And yes, I
Speaker 1: do want to circle back on what you just said,
Speaker 1: because authority, it is hard to hear a woman's voice
Speaker 1: and be like she's an authority figure, and that's a
Speaker 1: controversial sounding thing. I didn't like the way it sounded
Speaker 1: coming out of my mouth. But there's so much to
Speaker 1: back that up. But I will there's actually science. There
Speaker 1: is a she you know, has a PhD and thus
Speaker 1: is an authority figure, but be she can also teach
Speaker 1: us a little bit about how for those those who
Speaker 1: don't have PhDs, we can sort of stand in our
Speaker 1: authoritative power on the things that we do know about
Speaker 1: because we've had life experiences. I'm part of what was
Speaker 1: so beautiful. I think we're wrapping up a part of
Speaker 1: what was so beautiful about the advice that you were
Speaker 1: given when you had to do the hard stuff in
Speaker 1: front of Congress was that stories are so much more
Speaker 1: powerful than we realize, and women have been conditioned to
Speaker 1: not tell them. Partly because maybe we don't have a
Speaker 1: hero's journey that feels like it fits us as much.
Speaker 1: And there's an amazing Britt Marlin article that just came
Speaker 1: out of wonderful totally and so like truth telling, but
Speaker 1: also partly because you know, in the moment, I've had guests,
Speaker 1: as I've been doing, you know, prep interviews leading up
Speaker 1: to this I've had guests who I'm obviously asking them
Speaker 1: for the story of the time when and they're obviously
Speaker 1: on my podcast because they're an expert, or they're doing
Speaker 1: something brilliantly with their lives, and they dodge it and
Speaker 1: it's like, God, that's all of us. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: weird saying. That's really and yeah, and we get to
Speaker 1: sit in it and work our bravery muscle. And I mean,
Speaker 1: I just want it's so important. Like bravery is not.
Speaker 1: My favorite quote is bravery is not the absence of fear.
Speaker 1: It's being afraid in doing it anyway. And I'm never
Speaker 1: not afraid when I'm using my voice or being vulnerable
Speaker 1: or singing or testifying. But I don't know somehow I
Speaker 1: do it anyway. I want to have you on because
Speaker 1: I feel like you work that bravery muscle, like you
Speaker 1: just work it. It's not like I came in strong.
Speaker 1: It's like I worked it. Yeah, yeah, and slowly too.
Speaker 1: It didn't happen overnight. I did. And I think Burnee
Speaker 1: Brown speaks about this actually, She's like, be a little
Speaker 1: brave here, a little brave here, and a little brave here,
Speaker 1: and you kind of work your way up to these
Speaker 1: big moments, you know, and I think I've I've slowly
Speaker 1: been doing that. It didn't just happen, you know, it did.
Speaker 1: It took took time to work the muscle. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: good for all of us. Like incremental, incremental wins. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and don't and you'll be easy on yourself if you're
Speaker 1: not ready, you know this, it's okay. And also like
Speaker 1: surround yourself with people who are love you and conditionally. Yeah. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: that's so important, my god, because shame is one of
Speaker 1: the greatest weapons against us, you know, and people famously
Speaker 1: throughout history, people that had conflicting ideas or ideas that
Speaker 1: we're ahead of their time, got really beaten yea, emotionally,
Speaker 1: sometimes physically burned at burned at the steak, you know,
Speaker 1: ostracized from society. Um, I want to end also burn
Speaker 1: a brown in a different part of that says, in
Speaker 1: order for connection to happen, we have to be seen,
Speaker 1: really seen, and that is you know what we're working
Speaker 1: on with our voice as well. Yeah, and the voice
Speaker 1: is a huge part of that. Um. Evan, thanks for
Speaker 1: coming in. Oh my god, so fun. Thank you for
Speaker 1: having Thank you to Evan for coming in. You can
Speaker 1: find out more about her in the show notes or
Speaker 1: on our website Permission to Speak pod dot com. Also,
Speaker 1: you can go to Permission to Speak pod dot com
Speaker 1: if you have any awesome quotes you'd like me to
Speaker 1: read at the top of the episodes, and if you
Speaker 1: have any questions, I will do and ask me anything
Speaker 1: episode from time to time, and I want to know
Speaker 1: what is getting in the way of your voice. You
Speaker 1: can also send d M s or voice messages to
Speaker 1: our Instagram at Permission to Speak Pod, where we're posting
Speaker 1: a bunch of content and please join the community. Thanks
Speaker 1: as well to Sophie Lichterman and the team at I
Speaker 1: Heeart Radio, to Megan Read, to my family and cohort,
Speaker 1: and to all of you. We're recording this podcast in
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio studios in Hollywood on land that
Speaker 1: used to belong to the Tongva indigenous tribe, and you
Speaker 1: can visit U S d A C dot us to
Speaker 1: learn more about honoring native land. Permission to Speak is
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio and Double Vision Executive
Speaker 1: produced by Katherine Burke Canton and Mark Canton. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from My Heart Radio, listen on the ihart Radio
Speaker 1: app Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.