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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Tuesday, July twenty second. We

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Speaker 2: made it to Tuesday.

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Speaker 3: Guys.

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Speaker 2: We're so happy you're here. And yes, we have a

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Speaker 2: stacked night of headlines. So we have George Alivo from

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Speaker 2: A and E's hit show Lie Detector, Truth or Deception.

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Speaker 2: If you haven't seen it, you have to check it out.

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Speaker 2: We talked about it the other night and they did

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Speaker 2: this crazy episode about Gary Coleman's death. We were talking

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Speaker 2: about this. His now X took a lie detector test.

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Speaker 2: So we're going to get all the scoop on that

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Speaker 2: and other episodes as well. Plus this chilling new information

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Speaker 2: about this alleged killer of the Paddle Border in May

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Speaker 2: seventeen years old, some disturbing new information about that. And

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Speaker 2: also this Colorado dentist. This trial continues and today his

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Speaker 2: mistress took this stand. So before we get to all

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Speaker 2: of that, just want to let you know that we

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Speaker 2: want to hear from you, please call us eight eight

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Speaker 2: eight three to one crime jump in join the conversation anytime.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I head of KAT Studios, where

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Speaker 2: we make true crime podcasts and documentaries, and I get

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Speaker 2: to be here every single night, Sunday through Thursday with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong, our crime expert and producer. You'll recognize her

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Speaker 2: voice from so many of our podcasts as well as

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Speaker 2: crime analyst Body Move In. You'll know her from Netflix's

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Speaker 2: Don't f with Kats Again. If you haven't seen it,

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Speaker 2: please check it out. So first, just as we hoped

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Speaker 2: a talkback, go into that first.

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Speaker 4: Hey, Boddy, Stephanie and Courtney. I hope you guys are

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Speaker 4: having a great evening so far. For the dentist murder,

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Speaker 4: do you guys say that James Craig still would have

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Speaker 4: gotten caught if it wasn't for his office manager discovering

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Speaker 4: the synod package?

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Speaker 3: Do you think he still.

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Speaker 4: Would have gotten in trouble or do you think he

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Speaker 4: would have gotten away with murdering his wife?

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Speaker 3: Just want to know what you guys think.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, what a good question, a great question. So

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Speaker 5: here's why the office shipment mattered right. The office shipment

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Speaker 5: mattered because he ordered poison to his office, and it's

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Speaker 5: an immediate link from the poison to him, right, that's

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Speaker 5: an immediate link. Witnesses at the practice the staff saw

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Speaker 5: and handled unusual chemical shipments that they're not used to getting,

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Speaker 5: so that you know, these these things link the defendant

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Speaker 5: to the crime. These are really important things. If those

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Speaker 5: things didn't happen, would he have been caught?

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Speaker 6: Well?

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Speaker 3: Probably not. I mean, well that's the thing, like what

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Speaker 3: other evidence do they have? They have the topsychology, which

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Speaker 3: I don't know that they would have done if they

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Speaker 3: would have screened for cyanide and and what I don't

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Speaker 3: know if they would have done that. Probably not.

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Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan, a forensics experts, said that that's not

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Speaker 2: on a basic panel of testing. So maybe had they

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Speaker 2: not been alerted by the ladies in the office now

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Speaker 2: and was delivered yesterday.

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Speaker 3: The one of the doctors testified that his behavior at

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Speaker 3: the hospital was unusual. He didn't say it was like

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Speaker 3: specifically suspect, but it was unusual. Now is it possible

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Speaker 3: that that would have made him run tests? You know,

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Speaker 3: like that's interesting and then they would have looked at

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Speaker 3: the doctor searches on you know, the computer, and they

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Speaker 3: would have seen that he was looking for how to

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Speaker 3: make things look you know, like a heart attack or

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Speaker 3: you know. I can't remember exactly what he was looking for,

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Speaker 3: but it was something to that effect. He was searching

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Speaker 3: how to make a poison death look natural. This guy

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Speaker 3: really felt like he was above at all. Huh, Right,

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Speaker 3: So I don't that's I mean, that is such an

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Speaker 3: amazing question. And these are the kind of things I

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Speaker 3: am into, Like I am really into the science behind

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Speaker 3: how people get caught doing like really bad things, right, Like,

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Speaker 3: I just really like that that the whole thing. And

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Speaker 3: so that kind of question really speaks to me, and

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Speaker 3: I love it and keep it coming.

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Speaker 6: I wish I knew.

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Speaker 3: That's another answer.

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Speaker 2: It takes a community sometimes, I mean, it makes it's

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Speaker 2: better than anybody because sometimes it's like one little piece

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Speaker 2: of information can really tip off an investigation. Courtney, We've

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Speaker 2: seen this many times as well. It's like sometimes it's

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Speaker 2: the swell of a community that can link things together.

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Speaker 2: And listen, that's why it's so important that we talk

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Speaker 2: about things in hindsight. Granted, these are very extreme cases.

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Speaker 2: We don't cover these because we're so like, ooh death.

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Speaker 2: Quite the opposite. It's like, after something so tragic, how

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Speaker 2: do you look back in hindsight and see some of

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Speaker 2: these clues that can be sort of applied to other

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Speaker 2: things for all of us moving forward. And Yeah, that

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Speaker 2: seems to me that it's very possible had had that

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Speaker 2: that arsenic or cyanide not been flagged, maybe that would

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Speaker 2: have gone undetected.

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Speaker 3: It might have.

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Speaker 7: It's interesting because I was actually just running through sort

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Speaker 7: of the notes we all keep on the different cases,

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Speaker 7: and I was trying to see, geez, would there have

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Speaker 7: been anything else obvious? And it does seem that all

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Speaker 7: roads do lead like there was the guy to the

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Speaker 7: office manager, and then the dentist himself ended up admitting

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Speaker 7: to a friend and a nursing PhD in the office that, okay,

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Speaker 7: I bought the cyanide and said, oh, it's just a

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Speaker 7: part of a game of chicken. I'm playing with my wife,

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Speaker 7: who's now to CeCe angela.

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Speaker 3: Game of chicken. What does that even mean?

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Speaker 7: He said in applyde kind of that's what I understand.

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Speaker 7: And then everything else that's been evidentiary has really come

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Speaker 7: from his time in prison, which obviously would not have

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Speaker 7: happened without.

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Speaker 3: Being tipped off.

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Speaker 7: So and also the further evidence is with his daughter

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Speaker 7: and trying to implicate it, so it's all stuff he's

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Speaker 7: implicated himself with after the fact.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know. I don't know either. It really

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Speaker 3: would depend on if they were suspicious about her illness, right,

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Speaker 3: and they run like a full panel of talks, and

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Speaker 3: I don't know that they would have. Well ask Joseph

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Speaker 3: on Sunday.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And sometimes that's the thing I mean, Listen, law

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Speaker 2: enforcement has a lot on their plate. They're understaffed, underpaid,

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Speaker 2: underappreciated oftentimes, and look, there's only X amount of time

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Speaker 2: in the day. So sometimes a tip off or a

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Speaker 2: new piece of evidence that's brought forward by either a

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Speaker 2: family member or a friend, which is not an easy

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Speaker 2: spot to be in. I give them a lot of

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Speaker 2: credit for speaking up, too. They could have just overlooked

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Speaker 2: it or looked the other way. Pretty much guarantees them

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Speaker 2: no job when the dentist has gone right, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean, Sometimes you don't want to meddle. That's like,

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Speaker 2: you know, many people would sort of say, like, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to stay out of that mess. So it takes

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Speaker 2: a lot of bravery and courage to come forward, and

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Speaker 2: hats off for doing that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah wow, Well, thank you for the talk back and

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Speaker 3: keep it coming. Those are the questions I just love.

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Speaker 3: So I'm going to be talking about the nineteen seventy

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Speaker 3: nine case of Aton Pots and he disappeared. He was

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Speaker 3: six years old. He disappeared in nineteen seventy nine, and

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Speaker 3: he was kind of like the face of the missing

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Speaker 3: children's movement in this country. He was one of the

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Speaker 3: first children that was featured on like the milk carton

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Speaker 3: that you guys remember.

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Speaker 2: How that was the original missing Yeah before missing posters

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Speaker 2: were before the internet event obviously.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you would open up your fridge and there would

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Speaker 3: be a carton of milk in your fridge and it

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Speaker 3: had Have you seen me? And you know, being gen x,

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Speaker 3: I think we're all pretty much gen x. You know

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Speaker 3: our parents, would you know joke with us that if

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Speaker 3: you don't behave, you're going to be on a milk carton?

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Speaker 3: Like that was? Wait? Did my mom? Was my mom

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Speaker 3: the only one that kind of thing, You are not

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Speaker 3: alone there, you're going to go missing? Right, you don't behave,

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Speaker 3: You're going to go missing? Went missing? He was on

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Speaker 3: his way to school in Manhattan, and you know, he

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Speaker 3: just went missing. Well decade later, in twenty twelve, a

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Speaker 3: man was arrested. His name is Pedro Hernandez. And the

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Speaker 3: headline here is that his conviction from twenty twelve should

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Speaker 3: be retried, released, or overturned. And that's what's going on.

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Speaker 3: His case is thrown out. It's a really big deal.

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Speaker 3: The federal appeals Court overturned his conviction, ruling that the

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Speaker 3: trial judge gave improper instructions to the jury about how

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Speaker 3: to evaluate his pre miranda confession. So what that means

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Speaker 3: is he confessed prior to being read his miranda rights. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so there's a couple of things to keep in mind here.

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Speaker 3: He is mentally deficient, he has an IQ around seventy,

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Speaker 3: and he was kind of like in a mental institution.

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Speaker 3: And apparently he confessed to this crime, saying that he

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Speaker 3: took a ton down to a basement and suffocated him

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Speaker 3: and then got rid of the body. It's also important

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Speaker 3: to know that they never found any evidence of that.

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Speaker 3: They went to that basement and like dug it up

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Speaker 3: and there was nothing there.

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Speaker 7: But of course it was decades later, but yet at

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Speaker 7: the time of the arrest. Yeah, I'm just seeking further

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Speaker 7: that he wasn't just under psychiatric care.

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Speaker 3: He was at Bellevue a hospital at the time. I

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Speaker 3: mean famous use you.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, he was on medication and diagnoses included schizophrenia by

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Speaker 7: polar disorder, and hallucinations that had dated back for many years. Right,

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Speaker 7: So boy tie that with an IQ of seventy and

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Speaker 7: that's really really rough. You're listening to true crime tonight.

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Speaker 7: We're on iHeartRadio. I'm Courtney Armstrong here as always with

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Speaker 7: Body Movement and Stephanie Leidecker. We're talking about Eton Potts,

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Speaker 7: the first child who ever was on a milk carton

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Speaker 7: who went missing.

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Speaker 3: Give us your thoughts.

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Speaker 7: What do you think also about people who maybe do

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Speaker 7: false confessions, because that's something that people feel I'm fast

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Speaker 7: different about, so we want to hear from me. But

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Speaker 7: this one seems I don't know a little bit.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, sire. I mean, it's very strange it

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Speaker 3: confess to a crime decades later he can Is it

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Speaker 3: a hallucination?

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Speaker 2: If there's nobody and you're being diagnosed with such, your mental.

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Speaker 3: Fear in tells you, right, why are you thinking about

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Speaker 3: this kid that disappeared twenty years ago. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: So he confessed in twenty twelve, Right, he went missing

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Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy nine. Why is this guy confessing to

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Speaker 3: a crime that occurred, you know, twenty years.

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Speaker 7: I believe it's correct that he became because the investigators

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Speaker 7: reopened the case after it was in the Nandez is Yeah,

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Speaker 7: her Nandez's family said that he was a suspect. He

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Speaker 7: became a suspect in twenty twelve after a relative of

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Speaker 7: Hernandez whold authorities he confessed years earlier to killing a

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Speaker 7: child in a child right.

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Speaker 3: So it's interesting. So the Second US Circuit Court of

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Speaker 3: Appeals found that the trial judge gave incorrect and prejudicial

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Speaker 3: jury instructions relating to the confession. So, you know, like

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Speaker 3: for Karen Reid, you know how they had questions for

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Speaker 3: the judge, right, they had about the jury, and you know,

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Speaker 3: BEV would be like, well, I can't explain that, or

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Speaker 3: you know, do you know how they're just very not

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Speaker 3: really explanatory in their answers. They just kind of yes.

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Speaker 3: So the jury asked if the initial pre miranda confession

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Speaker 3: was found involuntary, therefore inadmissible should they disregard the later

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Speaker 3: videotape confession. So what happened was he confessed pre Miranda,

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Speaker 3: they arrested him and read him his rights, and then

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Speaker 3: they videotaped it. And the jury was asking, well, if

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Speaker 3: the first one was found involuntary and therefore in admissible,

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Speaker 3: should we disregard the later videotape confession. And the judge

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Speaker 3: replied simply no, okay, So that didn't Apparently that didn't

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Speaker 3: provide enough explanation to the juror the jury, and so

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Speaker 3: it's getting a returned.

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Speaker 2: So can we just explain just for the basics two

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Speaker 2: of miranda rights? Right, So, Miranda rights, we've all seen

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Speaker 2: law and order d you know, you are the right

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Speaker 2: to remain silenced. Anything you say can and will be

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Speaker 2: used against you. Those have to that's a whole saying

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Speaker 2: that law enforcement has to say. Before taking a confession,

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Speaker 2: people need to realize that they can, in fact have

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Speaker 2: a lawyer present so that anything they say from that

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Speaker 2: moment forward will be used against you in court. That's

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Speaker 2: the goal here. We're trying to solve a crime and

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Speaker 2: it's important stuff. So, but you know, sometimes the trickiness

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Speaker 2: of semantics there can be complicated.

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Speaker 3: Right, So the court concluded that the instructions violated clearly

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Speaker 3: established federal law and was quote unquote manifestly prejudicial, meaning

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Speaker 3: that it likely affected the outcome. So, because the judge

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Speaker 3: didn't explain what they should do with these confessions, which

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Speaker 3: is what the jury was asking, they said it was

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Speaker 3: prejudicial and dismissed the conviction. So now, well the Manhattan

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Speaker 3: DA has to decide if they're going to retry it.

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Speaker 3: You should go stay in Bellevue. Maybe is that the answer?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I can't wait to the Light Detector.

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Speaker 3: Let's go George Olivia, who's coming on? I'm so excited?

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Speaker 7: Yes, right after the break, actually, so do stay tuned

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Speaker 7: for George Olivo, our expert from A and E's Liad

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Speaker 7: Detector Truth It's more deception, And later in the hour

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Speaker 7: we have more news on a recent double homicide.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here every

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Speaker 2: night with my favorite ladies, Courtney Armstrong and Body Move in.

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Speaker 2: And we're very very excited because we finally we have

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Speaker 2: the guy we've been talking about. Light Detectors left to

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Speaker 2: and right, and this show is honestly, if you haven't

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Speaker 2: checked it out on A and E, this show is

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Speaker 2: the one for you. Lie Detector, Truth or Deception, And

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Speaker 2: we have the guy. He is here officially to kind

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Speaker 2: of break down sort of the latest things that he's

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Speaker 2: been seeing in his show, specifically around the Gary Coleman case,

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Speaker 2: so we would like to do a lie detector test

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Speaker 2: as well. Also later in the show, we're also going

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Speaker 2: to be unpacking the new developments with the dentist who

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Speaker 2: is you know, he's doing his thing in court and

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Speaker 2: we have some new testimony to report on today. But first, Courtney,

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Speaker 2: you take.

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Speaker 3: It well, this is very exciting.

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Speaker 7: A couple of weeks ago, we received a tip from

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Speaker 7: a listener and it was about the speculation that was

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Speaker 7: sort of surrounding the death of Gary Coleman, who we

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Speaker 7: all remember as the.

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Speaker 3: Beloved child star.

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Speaker 7: So recently everyone's interest has gone crazy because of an

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Speaker 7: episode of A and E's Lie Detector, Truth or Deception.

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Speaker 7: So we ran with that and are in the really

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Speaker 7: lucky position that tonight we have George.

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Speaker 3: Alivo on the show.

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Speaker 7: Know from A and E's Lie Detector, Truth or deception,

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Speaker 7: and George spent many years uncovering the truth through polygraphs.

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Speaker 7: He's former FBI, and tonight he's here to tell us

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Speaker 7: about the bombshell test.

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Speaker 3: Is he the one that did the lie detector test?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: I also remember in PP Anthony's parents as well. Okay, great, yeah,

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Speaker 2: like we are, we are in the big leagues.

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Speaker 3: All right, let's do it. George. Welcome, Welcome, George, Thank

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Speaker 3: you for having me. Oh, we're obsessedsess with your show.

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Speaker 2: Congratulations on the success, and we love your A and

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Speaker 2: E family so much and we're so happy you're here.

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Speaker 2: I feel like we've been talking about you quite a bit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so very much.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, I was really so intrigued watching the

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Speaker 7: whole thing, and I'd love how you sort of began.

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Speaker 7: Would you tell people how you mentioned that your two

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Speaker 7: main jobs as a polygraph examiner is to one find

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Speaker 7: out who did what, and two to get as close

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Speaker 7: to the truth as possible. What do you mean by that?

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Speaker 6: Well, it is important, obviously to find out who did what.

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Speaker 6: That's what everybody is focused on. But getting as close

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Speaker 6: to the truth as possible is not always an easy task.

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Speaker 6: I'd like to say that the truth is kind of

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Speaker 6: like toothpaste. It comes out a little bit at a time,

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Speaker 6: and usually you have to squeeze and you get a

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Speaker 6: little bit each time, and you don't get everything all

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Speaker 6: at once. And so it just because someone fails a

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Speaker 6: polygraph exam, it doesn't necessarily mean what everybody thinks. It

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Speaker 6: means we have to dig a little deeper to find

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Speaker 6: out what the real truth is.

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Speaker 2: And why doesn't everybody get a lie detector test. So

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Speaker 2: we talk about cases all the time, every night, obviously,

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Speaker 2: back to back, back to back, and it sometimes is

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Speaker 2: a case of he said, she said, or she said

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Speaker 2: she said. You know, if it was a standard thing

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Speaker 2: that everybody that was you know, for example, even the

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Speaker 2: case we were just talking about where somebody may have

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Speaker 2: made a false confession lie detectors. Is there a way

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Speaker 2: to beat a lie detector test? I used to always

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Speaker 2: hear that if you stepped on attack, that would I

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Speaker 2: don't know, do something to your blood that would make

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Speaker 2: you pass a lie detector test.

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Speaker 3: I'm assuming that's not true.

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Speaker 6: Well, it's an old lives tale, and at this point

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Speaker 6: the equipment is advanced enough to detect almost well. I

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Speaker 6: wouldn't say any deception. But here's the thing. It's like

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Speaker 6: going into the bank with a counterfeit one hundred dollars

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Speaker 6: bill and you ask the bank manager for change, and

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Speaker 6: he's going to take that bill and look at it,

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Speaker 6: look at it in the light, and he may not

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Speaker 6: know exactly what counterfeit technique was used, but he'll know

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Speaker 6: that it's counterfeit because he knows what the real bill

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Speaker 6: is supposed to look like. So a good examiner has

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Speaker 6: been looking at like myself for fifteen years. I've been

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Speaker 6: looking at normal physiology within the normal range, and if

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Speaker 6: it does not look normal, then something is up and

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Speaker 6: we got to look at that a little further.

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Speaker 2: And you do that so well because your follow up

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Speaker 2: questions kind of you know, I guess the spirit of

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Speaker 2: that is somebody starts to feel like, ooh, the walls

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Speaker 2: are closing in a little bit, and you know, somebody's

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Speaker 2: on to me, and then you rephrase a different way,

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Speaker 2: and it seems like you kind of get the totality

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Speaker 2: of a person's deception pretty quickly.

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Speaker 3: It's really riveting to watch. You're listening to True Crime

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Speaker 3: tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm Bonnie Movin and I'm here with

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Speaker 3: Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker, and we are talking with

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Speaker 3: holygraph expert and former FBI agent George Alivo, and we

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Speaker 3: want to hear from you. Give us a call eighty

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Speaker 3: eight thirty one crime or hit us on the talkbacks

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Speaker 3: in the iHeartRadio app Courtney, really quick, just to go

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Speaker 3: back just a second, can you give us just kind

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Speaker 3: of a brief succinct overview of why this is even

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Speaker 3: being talked about? Absolutely so.

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Speaker 7: Gary Coleman, as we said child Star, he had suffered

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Speaker 7: a fatal head injury and this occurred after he had

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Speaker 7: a fall at his home in Utah. He was only

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Speaker 7: forty two years old. This happened back in twenty ten.

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Speaker 7: So Gary Coleman's ex wife, Shannon Price, she was home

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Speaker 7: at the time, and she ultimately gave permission for the

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Speaker 7: hospital to take Gary Coleman off of life support.

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Speaker 3: There has been sort of.

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Speaker 7: Wandering suspicion about Gary Coleman's ex wife, Shannon Price. Was

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Speaker 7: she involved? And so that's kind of what this the

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Speaker 7: goal was to reveal. And George at a question, Yes,

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Speaker 7: So Shannon's demeanor during the show seemed quite something sometimes contentious.

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Speaker 7: Would you ate how did you feel her demeanor was

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Speaker 7: and be our people often adversarial towards you.

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Speaker 6: Sometimes they are. She was during the pretest interview, and

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Speaker 6: during the exam you only got a small taste of

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Speaker 6: it because obviously they have to edit it for the

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Speaker 6: time restraints. That I was with her in the exam

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Speaker 6: for about two hours. That's about how long a legitimate

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Speaker 6: exam takes. And she did complain about a lot of

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Speaker 6: things during that time.

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Speaker 3: Well, if.

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Speaker 2: You're innocent and you want the time, you want to

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Speaker 2: make sure that nothing gets left out.

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Speaker 3: If that's guilty, you might feel a little defensive.

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Speaker 6: Sorry, no problem, No problem. So she complained about the

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Speaker 6: chair being too hard, and then the room was too cold,

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Speaker 6: and then we warmed it up, and then it was

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Speaker 6: too hot, and then the lights, and then there are

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Speaker 6: so many things. And I thought to myself for a moment, well,

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Speaker 6: here's a person being given a golden opportunity to clear

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Speaker 6: her name, and she's complaining about what I would say

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Speaker 6: are trivial things. Starts you can't help but start to

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Speaker 6: think that she's trying to undermine, Yeah, an otherwise legitimate process.

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Speaker 3: She's trying to get ahead of, she's trying to get ahead.

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Speaker 3: I was too hot, right, she's trying to get ahead

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Speaker 3: of the results.

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Speaker 6: Right, Or the chair was too hard, or you know,

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Speaker 6: so many different things, but anyway, we got through it all.

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Speaker 6: We got through the test and it was a legitimate test,

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Speaker 6: so that was that hard. And then during the results,

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Speaker 6: of course, she had her a different reaction.

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Speaker 3: She was very dismissive.

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Speaker 2: So this is an interesting one too because remember, if

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Speaker 2: you guys aren't familiar with Gary Coleman, he was the

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Speaker 2: star of that show Different Strokes.

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Speaker 3: Would you talk about Willis? What's you talking about Willis?

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Speaker 3: And you know Americas, everyone loved him. Everybody loved him.

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Speaker 2: So the idea of this death being you know, slightly suspicious,

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Speaker 2: you know, has been something that's been talked about for

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Speaker 2: a really long time. And you know, maybe somebody takes

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Speaker 2: a lie detect your test thinking they're going to outsmart it,

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Speaker 2: or you know somehow you know, throw off the machine

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Speaker 2: with attack, or they're going to complain about the heat

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Speaker 2: or the cold. You know, at the end of it,

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Speaker 2: how was I don't want to give away the ending

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Speaker 2: because you know, we really want to encourage everybody to

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Speaker 2: go and watch if they haven't already, But Were you

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Speaker 2: surprised by anything?

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Speaker 6: I was not. Having done this for so long, you

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Speaker 6: kind of prepare for every possible outcome. So I already

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Speaker 6: had a strategy if she had passed or if she

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Speaker 6: had failed, and what to do next. You have to

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Speaker 6: kind of deal with this kind of like a check

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Speaker 6: smash and just know what to do next so that

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Speaker 6: you're not caught off guard. So I wasn't surprised at all.

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Speaker 2: I got to say the Casey Anthony one as well,

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Speaker 2: Casey Anthony's parents, if you're not familiar with that. Case

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Speaker 2: Casey Anthony was acquitted of her charges about killing her daughter.

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Speaker 2: I forget what year it was, but her beloved, beautiful daughter,

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Speaker 2: and she kind of cast judgment on dad and mom

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Speaker 2: and essentially blamed them. In your LIGHTE detector test, you know,

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Speaker 2: they came out very clean and that that was major.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I remember the promos for that. I remember,

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Speaker 3: and I remember being so excited to see that. I

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Speaker 3: remember that that was a good one. Wow. Were you

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Speaker 3: surprised by the results in that test?

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Speaker 8: No?

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Speaker 6: Not really. My idea of going into a polygraphic exam

437
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,199
Speaker 6: is kind of to be like the umpire, So I

438
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 6: have to go in there, whether it's a Little league

439
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 6: game or whether it's the World Series. My job is

440
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,640
Speaker 6: the same to go in and call balls and strikes,

441
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 6: and a good umpire doesn't have a favorite team, and

442
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 6: a good umpire doesn't bet on the game, so the

443
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 6: results are what they are. Just like with the Casey

444
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 6: Anthony's parents, or Shannon Price or these other episodes coming up,

445
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 6: you have to have a plan or an idea of

446
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 6: what you're going to do next, regardless of the outcome.

447
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 2: And what's coming up next? Can you tease us with

448
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,399
Speaker 2: any of the upcoming episodes?

449
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 6: Please do, absolutely so. Some very exciting episodes coming up,

450
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 6: in my opinion, there's Edward As he spent twenty years

451
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 6: in prison for a murder, the murder of his neighbor,

452
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 6: crime that he never confessed to and says that he

453
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 6: did not commit. But he was spent twenty years in jail. Wow,

454
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 6: he came out, takes a polygraph exam. Another individual that

455
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 6: was on a dateline episode Raven Abaroa. That one's very interesting.

456
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 6: In two thousand and five, Raven came home after playing

457
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 6: soccer and found his wife Janet inside their home, stabbed

458
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:54,400
Speaker 6: to death.

459
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 3: I remember this series, Yeah, of course, that's a big one.

460
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 6: Yes, during that murder, their baby boy was asleep in

461
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,640
Speaker 6: the next room. Now, Raven's son, who's twenty years old,

462
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 6: now watches remotely as his father's question by me and

463
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 6: takes the polygraph exam. Raven admits, Yeah, he admitted to me,

464
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 6: and he's admitted before as well, not just to me,

465
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 6: that he has been haunted by the guilt of secretly

466
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 6: cheating on his wife and his words. Many other sins

467
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 6: that those are his words, but he insists that he

468
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 6: never stabbed his wife. So that is a good episode

469
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 6: as well. There's another one a a handy two thousand

470
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 6: and eight gentleman by the name of Jeff Geishel. He

471
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 6: died from a stab wound to the chest. When the

472
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 6: police arrived, there was blood everywhere and Ava was rendering

473
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 6: aid and she was covered in his blood. And she

474
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 6: says and her daughter, who was thirteen at the time,

475
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 6: both say that it was suicide that he stabbed himself

476
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 6: in the chest. Well, Ava was charged with the murder,

477
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 6: and eventually she accepted a plea in order to guarantee

478
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 6: her release, and she maintains her innocence. So interesting about

479
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 6: that that one is that she had taken a polygraph

480
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,239
Speaker 6: exam on some talk show one that we couldn't get

481
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 6: ahold of. Don't know what type of test that was,

482
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 6: and apparently passed, but I told her when she sat

483
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 6: down with me, look, you're gonna get a legitimate test

484
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 6: for me, doesn't matter what happened before.

485
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,959
Speaker 3: George, thank you so much for joining us. You can

486
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 3: catch more George Olivia on A and e's Lie Detector,

487
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 3: Truth or Deception. Hope to have you back really soon.

488
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 3: Stay right here, and we have more coming up true

489
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 3: Crime tonight.

490
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 2: Thanks George, Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. Yep,

491
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 2: we are talking true crime all the time. So a

492
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 2: special thanks again to George Olivo for coming on and

493
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 2: dealing with us and his Lie Detector talk listen. You

494
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 2: have to check out that show though, because he's very

495
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 2: beloved and we hope he comes back in big shout

496
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 2: out to Shelley and Brad and Elaine at A and

497
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 2: E for making that happen and keep it coming, keep

498
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 2: it coming, keep it coming. So this dentist is getting

499
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 2: a lot of chatter. You guys have been leaving messages

500
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 2: and talkbacks and we want more, more and more. I'm

501
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 2: going to do a soft launch. What about this for

502
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: the name of this case, the Novacane Nightmare.

503
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 3: Very very, very very I have really mixed reviews on

504
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 3: that one, so I applaud the alliteration.

505
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 2: Let's try again, Let's try the Dentist of Death that

506
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 2: I think that one's too. This is a tough crowd.

507
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: This is a tough crowd, so it has to save me.

508
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 2: Can you please se follow us with your suggestions eight

509
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 2: at eight three one crime, or you can always leave

510
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 2: us a talk back. Just download the iHeart app. It's

511
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 2: free top right hand corner, push the button and boom.

512
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 2: Leave a little voice memo when you're on the show.

513
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 2: And also you can hit us up in our socials

514
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 2: at True Crime Tonight show on TikTok and Instagram, or

515
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 2: at True Crime Tonight on Facebook. And by the way,

516
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,719
Speaker 2: you guys are doing a great job loading us up

517
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 2: with some cases and the talk backs and the calls.

518
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 2: We get them, we love them, and we're so grateful.

519
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 2: So just know, if we haven't talked about your case yet,

520
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 2: it's just because we're digging in. It's not because we

521
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 2: haven't heard it. And we promised we're going to get

522
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: to it, so keep it coming. In fact, we have

523
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: a talk back right now.

524
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 9: Hi, guys, Veronica here from North Carolina. I just had

525
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 9: a quick question. Do you think that James Craig underestimated

526
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 9: forensic science or do you genuinely believe he thought he

527
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 9: could outsmart the investigators?

528
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 3: Thank you, good question. I think it's the latter. Yeah.

529
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 3: I think he thought he was the smartest guy.

530
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I think with what he chose, because again,

531
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 7: had he not been, you know, so dopey as to

532
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 7: send his poison to his place of business, then we

533
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 7: don't even know if the medical examination would have taken

534
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 7: because these were not things that you would test for.

535
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 7: So I think he never thought they would get to

536
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 7: the forensic part.

537
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,479
Speaker 3: And I wonder if he knew that this is like

538
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 3: a test they don't normally run, Like he thought, Okay,

539
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 3: this is there. She's just gonna she's gonna go to

540
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 3: the hospital. She's gonna die slowly and agony. Right, it's

541
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 3: gonna be horrible death.

542
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 2: By terrible death, like it's very painful, agonizing.

543
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 3: Joseph Scott Morgan was on Sunday and we talked about

544
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 3: this at length. Remember he was talking about like multi

545
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 3: system organ uh failure, So like one by one, your

546
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 3: organs start failing, right, And I don't know if he

547
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 3: knew prior that, you know, this isn't something they normally

548
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 3: test for. I think it was his hubris. I think

549
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 3: he was just you know, thinking that he's like the

550
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 3: smartest guy in the room and that he was going

551
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 3: to get away with it. I mean it's obvious to me,

552
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 3: right because like even in jail, we've learned that while

553
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 3: he's in jail, he's trying to hire inmates and the inmates'

554
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 3: ex wife's and on the outside to like plant evidence

555
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 3: that his wife committed suicide. And he's asking his daughter

556
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 3: to make like deep fake ais. Like he's so he

557
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 3: knows he's in jail, he knows he's being monitored, he

558
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 3: knows his communication is being monitored, but he's still trying

559
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 3: to get things had to happen on the outside. It's

560
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 3: it's as Hubris in my opinion, And.

561
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 2: Hubris means like he's delusional, right, like a sense of grandeur.

562
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 2: He has like this like overwhelming sense of self where

563
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 2: he thinks he's above the law essentially.

564
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 7: Right, Yeah, Hubris is like too much pride, like too

565
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 7: much self confidence much especially in Greek tragedies. Hubert's is

566
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 7: what always brings you down. If you walk into any

567
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 7: story and you're like, I'm the best. By the end

568
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 7: of the story, you're going to be the worst or dead.

569
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 7: So yeah, it's kind of prideful.

570
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and too much self confidence.

571
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 6: You know.

572
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 3: It leads people to like.

573
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 2: Disregard caution understood right or is to see the warning signs,

574
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 2: or to tread like slow the roll a little bit

575
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 2: right way? How did this guy have all this time?

576
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 2: He has six children, he's running a dentist practice, he's

577
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 2: got you know, ladies handover fist. Apparently he's you know,

578
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 2: organizing a death, not once, but maybe twice.

579
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 3: And this guy also had a bit of a social life.

580
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 3: Like there are not enough hours in the day now

581
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 3: for any of that to happen, let alone this guy.

582
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 3: Now he's in jail, rocking and rolling. He needs to

583
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 3: be stopped. I agree. Well, Today, the witnesses continue to

584
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 3: testify in his murder trial. He stands accused of fatally

585
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 3: poisoning his wife, Angel. She was forty three years old,

586
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 3: by the way, mother of six of his children, and

587
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 3: he poisoned her with cyanide in that tetra Courtney, how

588
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 3: do you say it? Hydro hydros? I mean yesterday hydros,

589
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 3: Thank you, tet tetra hydrosylen And that's basically the substance

590
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 3: that's found in the eye drid So he put the

591
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 3: cyanide in the eye droppers and then put the eye

592
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 3: dropper drops in the smoothies that he would make his

593
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 3: wife in the morning.

594
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 2: And she would a gentleman. He's making smoothies for his wife.

595
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 2: She probably feels so grateful that her husband, who she knows,

596
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 2: has been stepping out on her all the time, apparently

597
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 2: for years according to testimony. And like she's he's handing

598
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 2: her a protein shake hopefully she's just like great full

599
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 2: and meanwhile he's poisoning her.

600
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, one things to the eye drops that.

601
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 7: I don't know why this detail sticks out to me,

602
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:14,239
Speaker 7: but this dopey dentist, that's the one that's it.

603
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 3: Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding.

604
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 3: I'm strong for the wind. I think that was good.

605
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 3: Say it again, louder, say it clearer for the back

606
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 3: of the room.

607
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 7: A dopey dentist, A person who testified him was someone

608
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 7: who worked at Walmart, and they confirmed that this Adobe dentist,

609
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 7: he bought nineteen boxes of eye drops. And my thought was,

610
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 7: why aren't you buying sort of one or two at

611
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 7: every gas station, or if you know you're up to

612
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 7: no good, I don't know, spread it around and nineteen

613
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 7: of anything is alarming.

614
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 3: Dope dentist is right, A dope dentist. I mean, honestly,

615
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 3: this case is closed. That's what this guy will be

616
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 3: known as from this point forward. The Adobe dentist, Well, today,

617
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 3: doctor Karen Kane, she's an ortho dantist and a key witness.

618
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 3: She was having an affair with him, and she met

619
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 3: him at a dental conference in Las Vegas. Of course,

620
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 3: that's where all big conferences happen and all these kind

621
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 3: of scandals happen. You know, we were just talking about

622
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 3: Travis Alexander and Jody Arius, which you're just a break, yes,

623
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 3: And they met at a conference in Vegas. Anyway, they

624
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 3: met at a conference in Vegas while she was waiting

625
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 3: for the bus to get go to a group dinner,

626
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 3: and they began like a romantic relationship after the conference,

627
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 3: including making out her hotel room that night. Yeah. Well,

628
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 3: Craig told her that he was separated from his wife

629
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 3: Angela and living in a separate apartment, implying he was

630
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 3: getting a divorce, So Corfrito. From her perspective, everything's on

631
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 3: the up and up, right, Yeah, she thought she thinks

632
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 3: she's meeting a nice dentist. Yeah, and she's an orthodontis, Like, yeah,

633
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 3: I imagine heaven. Right. Well, she testified today that Craig

634
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 3: was saying all the right things to appeal to her emotionally,

635
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 3: especially since she had been single for a while. They

636
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 3: exchanged over four thousand text messages, which prosecutors read in

637
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 3: court to show the depth of their relationship. Right, So

638
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 3: imagine you're in a relationship with somebody and then all

639
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 3: of a sudden it's being read in court, like, how horrifying?

640
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 3: Four thousand again?

641
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 4: Four?

642
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 2: Does this guy have time to write four thousand text

643
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: messages on top of it?

644
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 3: Four thousand? Right, that's a full time job in and

645
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 3: of itself.

646
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 7: Right, Yeah, and particularly since he was alleged to have

647
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 7: been with, you know, multiple women. I don't know whether

648
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 7: it was at the precise exact time, but listen, we

649
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 7: want to hear from you. What do you think about

650
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 7: this dope? Dentist AED eight three one crime. We want

651
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 7: your thoughts.

652
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 3: I love the cordial. That's all I want to talk

653
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 3: about is the Dope Dentist.

654
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 2: From this point forward, all the other segments are now

655
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: canceled and it's going to be exclusive coverage of the

656
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 2: Dope Dentist.

657
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 7: And we actually have another talkback. So it sounds like

658
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 7: you guys agree.

659
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 10: Good morning, ladies. This is still from Tampa. I have

660
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 10: a question on the dentist case, and I'm wondering if

661
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 10: body maybe has any data in her spreadsheets on this.

662
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 10: But I just feel like so many of these cases

663
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 10: worthy spouse is the suspect. There's so many times where

664
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 10: they just blame mental health, whether it's the poisoning or shooting,

665
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 10: and I just feel like it's the easy button and

666
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 10: none of the family saw the symptoms. And I wonder

667
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 10: how many of these cases are they using them in

668
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 10: health like this? It's really gross.

669
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 3: Well that's not a statistics I'm tracking, but I'm going

670
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 3: to start now because that is a really good point,

671
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 3: especially when the victim is the woman and then the

672
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 3: perpetrator is the husband, because women are crazy, hysterical and

673
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 3: we often get you know, we get that thrown at

674
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 3: us right that we're crazist. Yeah, we get dismissed. Yeah,

675
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 3: I'm not going to go off on a tangent right now,

676
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 3: but I think you know where I'm going.

677
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, this is generally something that I want

678
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 2: to close your ears right now.

679
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 3: You must, but I love you, man loud, don't mistake it,

680
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 3: but stop it. We're not crazy, We're not hysterical, you

681
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 3: know what I mean, We're actually quite rational. But I

682
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 3: mean I'm being like in all serious no, Snow, it

683
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 3: does happen where the husband will be like, well she

684
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 3: was crazy or she's in hysterics, and you know, it

685
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 3: gets thrown around a lot, and I think it happens

686
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 3: more often than we know, and it's in fact something

687
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 3: I do want to start tracking. So thank you for that.

688
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 3: I don't know the answer to that though, but that

689
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 3: is a good question. I would like to see that

690
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 3: in the Excel sheet. By the way, her Excel sheets

691
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 3: are like no other. We should start posting those online

692
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 3: for people to add on. But it's really very go

693
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 3: oh yeah, it is sensational and something that I really

694
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 3: have grown to love and trust. Thank you well, I

695
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 3: want to talk more about this mistress, you guys, because

696
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 3: there's more. Okay, I'm sorry, I just got to get

697
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 3: back to it. So he was going to fly out

698
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 3: to see her in March, in early March, March eighth

699
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 3: through the tenth, but he postponed it a week. He

700
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 3: was going to come out, well maybe a week and

701
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 3: a half. He was going to come out on the

702
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 3: sixteenth and the twentieth instead because of Angela's hospitalization. So

703
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 3: you guys, picture this. His wife is in the hospital,

704
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 3: she's literally dying. He's poisoning her while he's visiting her

705
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 3: in the hospital, and he's like, well, I have to

706
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 3: reschedule this rendezvous with my mistress. I'll come next week

707
00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 3: when she's dead. I mean, this is what he's thinking.

708
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 3: I'm not saying this. He's planning ahead. Like he's planning ahead.

709
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 3: He's I'm going to come out, you know, after she's

710
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 3: you know gone. It's just disgusting. So anyway, they met

711
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 3: multiple times, including just before his arrest. By the way,

712
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 3: she was awakened in her hotel room around two am

713
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 3: on March nineteenth by detectives who informed her Craig had

714
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 3: just been arrested. Crazy. So this guy that you just

715
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 3: came to visit. He gets arrested while you're there because

716
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 3: his wife dies and he's the suspect. Wasn't he's taking

717
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 3: a video too? We discussed this last night.

718
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 2: Wasn't he taking like the iPhone footage like from the

719
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,399
Speaker 2: hallway when she was convulsing?

720
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 4: Oh?

721
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, he's convulsing.

722
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 2: You know, you know what it's like to be in

723
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: a hospital with somebody who's really sick. Hopefully not everybody

724
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 2: has had to deal with that, but it's like such

725
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 2: a scary place, right people are suffering. In his case,

726
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 2: his beloved wife, mother of six children, is convulsing, probably

727
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 2: foaming at the mouth in this clown it has his

728
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 2: iPhone out and is taking radio.

729
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 3: You know what he did too. She testified today that

730
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 3: he sent her multiple letters from jail. When you know

731
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 3: what she did? She burned them. Oh that would have

732
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 3: been good evidence next time. Well, now she realized, she

733
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 3: realized after the first two. She's like, oh no, I

734
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 3: need to keep these, Like, oh my gosh, what am

735
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 3: I doing? She was just so mad. Yeah, you know,

736
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 3: she was like screw it. Eventually she wrote him back saying,

737
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 3: you know what, I don't want you to communicate with

738
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 3: me anymore and stop responding to his messages. So good

739
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 3: for her. She was like, oh my gosh, I can't

740
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 3: bess so she now she has all the ones that

741
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 3: you know since then. But yeah, what do you do?

742
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 2: We want to hear your dating horror stories. Also, can

743
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 2: you imagine you meet a nice dentist and this is

744
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 2: what turns out to be a nightmare, the likes of

745
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 2: which very few have seen. We want to hear that too,

746
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 2: so please call us eight eight eight three one crime.

747
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this dentist is not so nice.

748
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 2: So listen, we're going to be unpacking this battle board

749
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 2: murder in Maine. What a chilling development, and listen to

750
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 2: details about this seventeen year old that's been alleged to

751
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 2: commit the murder.

752
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 3: It's really shocking stuff. So we're going to get into

753
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 3: that very shortly. Also, very tragically, we're sorry to hear

754
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:10,280
Speaker 3: about theo Huxtable, beloved actor and of course Ozzy Osbourne.

755
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 3: We lost him today as well.

756
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 2: So our hearts really go out to their impact and

757
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: their fans, you know, major, major stuff.

758
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 3: But first we have a talk back.

759
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 11: Hi, It's Cynthia from Canada calling just in regards to

760
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 11: the House in the Idaho Masacre being terarn born down

761
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 11: before there was any decision on the killer. There's a

762
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 11: specific situation that happened in Canada as well, with the

763
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 11: Honey and Barry Sherman home that was torn down even

764
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 11: before anybody has been arrested or charged in their murders.

765
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 11: So it's not unusual, but it's a little strange.

766
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 3: So not Hi, Sania, We're happy to hear back from you.

767
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 3: I know we were missing You're missing you. Wow, we

768
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 3: are missing you. So you know, I think I'm the

769
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 3: only one that I've spoken with because I speak to

770
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 3: myself all the time. That was totally okay with the

771
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 3: house being torn down. I didn't think that the house

772
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 3: would have any evidentiary value. They took everything out of

773
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 3: the house that they needed. They took walls out that

774
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 3: I mean, we can see from the fural scan on

775
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 3: Halloween the dry wall that was cut out. We know

776
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 3: they took floorboards out. The house would never have been

777
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 3: able to be allowed. Nobody would have allowed the jury

778
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 3: to enter that house. It was dangerous to walk in.

779
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 3: The acoustics were different, so they wouldn't have been able

780
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 3: to test anything because the walls were removed, floors were removed,

781
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. Additionally, you know, Sigma Kai was

782
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 3: right across the street. Ethan's brother lived there and had

783
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 3: to look at that house every single day, and it

784
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 3: still had police tape up the day, you know what

785
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 3: I mean. Like, it's just I was totally okay with

786
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 3: the house being torn down, and I definitely understand people

787
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 3: are like, wow, the jury, Okay, the jury never would

788
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 3: have gone there. It never would have happened. Well, what

789
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 3: about Alex Murdall, Okay, what that was outside? That case

790
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 3: was all happened outside, Like, of course, the jury can

791
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 3: go to a field, so that's fine. They're not going

792
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 3: to be able to walk through a house where the

793
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 3: walls and floorboards have been removed and be able to

794
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 3: hear things, because it's going to hear it's not gonna

795
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 3: sound the same with those things removed. It just wouldn't

796
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 3: have been something the judge would allow.

797
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 2: And I always felt differently, but I totally you that's why,

798
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 2: by the way, and you're not alone in that because

799
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 2: the school felt that way obviously as well, and many students,

800
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 2: So you're definitely not alone in that. I thought, just

801
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,879
Speaker 2: from an evidentiary point of view, Why destroy something that

802
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 2: could possibly still have even a minuscule of proof in it.

803
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 2: This is, by the way, I feel a little differently

804
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 2: now that we know this Brian Coberger is an actual killer.

805
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 3: This was under the guys that, hey.

806
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 2: Look, this guy could be innocent, and if innocent, there

807
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 2: may be some you know, DNA or some sort of

808
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 2: blood in the cement outside. You're completely right, they never

809
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: would have been able to go inside. Sometimes there's a

810
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: feeling when you're looking at a house or you're in

811
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 2: a space, it kind of just sort of centers you

812
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 2: as a human. But really it was more about just

813
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 2: like maybe in the plumbing there was something that may

814
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 2: have been overlooked or something. And if I'm an innocent man,

815
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,240
Speaker 2: which you know is disgusting because we know full well

816
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 2: that he is not by his own admission, but at

817
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 2: the time, you know, we didn't know that fully and

818
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 2: maybe there was something there that could grow who did

819
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 2: do it if not him, and or proven guilty one

820
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 2: way or the other. But you know, all bets are

821
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: off now that we know the truth. And by the way,

822
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 2: the sentencing is tomorrow, So tomorrow is going to be

823
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 2: a huge day.

824
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 3: In the courtroom. We'll be covering it. We'll be there,

825
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 3: we'll be watching every piece of it. So please make

826
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 3: sure to tune in with.

827
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 2: Us tomorrow night because Brian Coburger will be sentenced and

828
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 2: is a sentence enough, and we will be following that

829
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 2: very closely, So stick with us. We'll be right back.

830
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 2: This is true Crime Tonight. We're talking true crime all

831
00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 2: the time. Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio.

832
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 2: We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker

833
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 2: here with Courtney Armstrong and body move in and listen.

834
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 2: We want to keep hearing from you, So call us

835
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 2: anytime eight eight eight three to one crime.

836
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 3: You can leave us a voice message kind of old school,

837
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,760
Speaker 3: any time of day, or can download the iHeartRadio app,

838
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 3: push the right hand button at the top and then

839
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 3: leave us a little voice memo and boom, You're on

840
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 3: the show. Because it's really helpful, We're.

841
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 2: Getting a lot of them, and honestly, it's like our

842
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 2: favorite thing. So join the conversation. Correct us if we're wrong,

843
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 2: add if you'd agree, or if you disagree. There's no

844
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 2: wrong answers here. We've been talking a lot about this

845
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: dopey dentist, the new term coined by Courtney Armstrong.

846
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 3: I think we're all in full support.

847
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 2: We'd love to hear from you if you disagree, and

848
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 2: also we have a talkback right now.

849
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 12: Hi, this is Gigi from Dallas, Texas. I know that

850
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 12: a big topic has been around a definition for the

851
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 12: word groomer. But when it comes to Gallane, why can't

852
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 12: we just call her a pimp? Because that's what?

853
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 3: Yeah? I love it.

854
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 6: Great, Yeah, that's.

855
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 8: Basically what she was convicted of.

856
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 3: Thank you? You know that? Is that is so true? Period?

857
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 3: Is you know what?

858
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 6: Though?

859
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 3: But don't pimps usually work with women who are too

860
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 3: like older, like well I've been not older, but like

861
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 3: oh of age women or I don't know, I don't know.

862
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 3: There's many.

863
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 7: Yeah, because listen, not to paint pimps with a broad brush.

864
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 3: But no, I think an underage girl.

865
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 7: Sneaks in and every now and again, I'm sure, but no,

866
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 7: with with a very high percentage, can you be a

867
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 7: pimp who grooms?

868
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 13: Oh?

869
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 3: Absolutely?

870
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 7: Withholding Hey baby, I actually there is a book I read.

871
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 7: It's just called Pimp. I can't remember who wrote it.

872
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 7: It's actually it's an excellent book. But that and I

873
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 7: was recently reading another sex worker book which.

874
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 3: Was all the all the sexy reading.

875
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 7: You're doing well, No, I mean the sex Worker in particular.

876
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 7: It was all firsthand accounts of sex workers. So try

877
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,399
Speaker 7: to you know, ran the gamut. But no, it's kind

878
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 7: of every iteration and it's very common, like you do

879
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,720
Speaker 7: see in the movies of say you're on the street

880
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 7: and you're fourteen years old because your step father is

881
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 7: a creek. I know I'm painting the most obvious picture,

882
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 7: but listen to Statistically it happens, and that's.

883
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 3: How a lot of people fall.

884
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 7: I mean, since you sex worker who don't say proactively, hey,

885
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 7: I'm going to do this because the hours are going

886
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 7: to suit my schedule, which is another reason to go

887
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 7: into it. And then grooming is absolutely it's like oh gonna,

888
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 7: I gotta say, form place for you and we're going

889
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 7: to get you cried up and here's some money, go shop,

890
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 7: make yourself feel better. You are taken care of now.

891
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 7: Well now it's time for you to take care of me,

892
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 7: and I will take away everything you've had now and

893
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 7: send you back. Yeah, I have a lot of grooming.

894
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 3: We have a note from Taha pimp. The Story of

895
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 3: My Life was written by Iceberg Slim, who was the

896
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 3: same of Robert Beck.

897
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 7: Yes, is that right, that's correct. It's a brutal this

898
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 7: is not for children to read, but it's absolutely it's fascinating.

899
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 7: It's a gritty and it's a real world Look.

900
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 3: Wow, scary, very scary. A little bit about my bedtime reading. Yeah,

901
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 3: talk about it, Yeah, say it loud.

902
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 6: You know.

903
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 2: It's interesting because honestly, with the Gilaine Maxwell stuff, listen,

904
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 2: that's heating up now too, because she's going to be

905
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 2: scheduled to speak with the DOJ. I don't know what

906
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 2: the what the end goal in that would be. I'm

907
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,879
Speaker 2: seeing on uncertain sources that Alan Dershowitz, the attorney who

908
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 2: you know has been sort of linked to Jeffrey Epstein

909
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 2: in this alleged list many times. He also I believe

910
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 2: represented him at some point, is also suggesting that Guilaine

911
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 2: Maxwell cut a deal to be released from prison an

912
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,240
Speaker 2: exchange for some information about Jeffrey Epstein.

913
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 3: I don't know.

914
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 2: This seems like one of those things I'm off there

915
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 2: act I'm a little afraid to talk about it. Honestly,

916
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 2: I think the MLPA files what a joke. You're gonna

917
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,399
Speaker 2: you're going to toss those out in the olemicth hour, like, oh,

918
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 2: we're paying attention to files, and I don't know that

919
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 2: there's an easy way out at this point with any

920
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 2: answer that's just not the blatant, straight up truth. And

921
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 2: I fear what will happen when that truth either does

922
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 2: hit or kind of fear that, like something else wacky

923
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 2: will happen that we don't see come in because they

924
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 2: want to divert us from that.

925
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 3: I've been spending way too much time with you, Stephanie. No,

926
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 3: I have I conspiracy. I do, though I have just

927
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 3: what it is. Yes, it's a little it's as got crazy,

928
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 3: but it is a little crazy. I feel like they're

929
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 3: doing this intentionally because oh, well, we don't know because

930
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 3: there's no list, and there's we don't have all the files,

931
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 3: and we don't have all the information we need. This

932
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 3: information from her, right, and all the information she's going

933
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 3: to give them is going to be, you know, leaving

934
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 3: the high end Republicans out of stuff intentionally.

935
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,879
Speaker 2: Right, right, like whoever it serves in office, whoever it's and.

936
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 3: Now if the Democrats were in office, it would serve

937
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 3: the same thing would apply, right one hundred percent? Why

938
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 3: the same thing? What whoever happens to be behind the

939
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 3: mic at so it's not mutually short destruction at that point.

940
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 3: It's only the enemy at this point, which is the

941
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 3: other side of the aisles. I believe anything. I know.

942
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 3: It just really bums me out, but it does make

943
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 3: me a little unnerved.

944
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 7: Going with that ride body going, which I full threadedly

945
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 7: did go with you on.

946
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 3: I don't know.

947
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 7: I think that in particular would be too dangerous. And

948
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 7: I don't believe anyone's purporting that Galline Maxwell is going

949
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:55,880
Speaker 7: to give information. I might have missed that in the

950
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,280
Speaker 7: most recent news, but I feel like what you're saying

951
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,399
Speaker 7: is logical. But I feel like it hits a point

952
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 7: because then let's make belief that Gulane does speak to

953
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 7: the powers that be and said, yes, it's all the

954
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 7: filthy Democrats. Well, then they themselves who were embroiled. I

955
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 7: feel like they necessarily would have some real concrete proof

956
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 7: of their political opposition. And then it's like, well, once

957
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 7: I'm exposed, guess what, right, and it's super scullar.

958
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 2: I guess that's why I'm scared, Like what happens when

959
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 2: that happens. So it's like it's two part On the

960
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 2: one hand, like of course we need answers, and it

961
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,439
Speaker 2: feels like we've been gas lit and given some fake

962
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 2: information and that makes it really hard to trust any information.

963
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,439
Speaker 2: If this is the sticking point, here we are. There's

964
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,240
Speaker 2: probably a million other examples of lousy things that people

965
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 2: have misspoke about or you know, led the public about incorrectly,

966
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 2: But for some reason, we're all kind of stuck down

967
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 2: on this one, and here we are.

968
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 3: It's serious stuff.

969
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 2: And if the information is shared, does that mean, ugh,

970
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 2: the world gets real crazy, because yes, everybody is getting

971
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 2: and exposing each other in this like yuck fest. Or

972
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 2: does it just you know, become a lie that's perpetuated.

973
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 3: Giley Maxwell saying that she's innocent. She's always been saying

974
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 3: she's innocent. So what is she going to really say

975
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 3: to the Feds? Oh wait, I changed my story. I

976
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 3: actually am very guilty. I'm a groomer in a pimp,

977
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 3: She's her attorney, denying that since day one. Her attorney

978
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:25,439
Speaker 3: said he confirmed ongoing discussions and stated she quote will

979
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 3: always testify truthfully with immunity and possible sentence reduction being

980
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 3: diplomatic considerations. So they're talking about her testifying. But by

981
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 3: the way, the head of the.

982
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 2: THEO jay is why we're in this mess in the

983
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 2: first place. Oh, I know, you know, so like what

984
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 2: is the benefit of that? I don't know that I

985
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 2: understand it enough either, So if anybody has an opinion,

986
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 2: please jump in and share it, because again, we're navigating

987
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 2: this all together and I'm not looking to add any

988
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 2: fire to the to the skillet, but somewhere deep in

989
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 2: my heart it feels unnerving and I feel like I'm

990
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 2: not alone in that.

991
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, absolutely.

992
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 7: And then what we will follow is that it's not

993
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 7: Pam Bondy. I don't know how our name escape, it's

994
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 7: not her, but it's the Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanche

995
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,479
Speaker 7: So he's the one who's announced the plans to meet

996
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 7: with Lane, which I think is interesting that it's not

997
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:22,720
Speaker 7: Pam Bondy, probably because of the misspeak and everything else.

998
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 7: But we will definitely follow what the conversations reveal.

999
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 2: And do we believe for a second that Pam Bondy

1000
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 2: was suddenly like a wild card that was a speaking

1001
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 2: out of turn off the coff about something so serious.

1002
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 3: I doubt it.

1003
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 2: No, I don't think that things like that get said

1004
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 2: without some level of approval, whatever that checking order is.

1005
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know the inner workings of

1006
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 3: any of this stuff. Truly. Well, I don't buy it.

1007
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 3: I feel like she's speak a little bit too. Courtney

1008
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 3: and I were faithful West Wing watchers. We know that

1009
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 3: we do. It's the communications Department. Yes, I love this.

1010
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 3: Where is the white of Where is c. J. Craig?

1011
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,280
Speaker 7: Yes, Express Secretary right exactly.

1012
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 3: So you're listening to True Crime Tonight, where we talk

1013
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 3: true crime all the time. I'm body move in and

1014
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 3: I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanieleidecker, and we're going

1015
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 3: through the top true crime headlines of the day. If

1016
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 3: you want to weigh in, give us a call at

1017
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 3: eighty eight eight thirty one Crime. I'm going to be

1018
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 3: talking about the Paddle Border. Do you guys remember the

1019
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 3: Paddle Border that was killed in Maine. Yeah, So this

1020
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 3: is kind of you know, it's really sad. So there

1021
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 3: was a teen vacationer who was charged with the murder

1022
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 3: in Maine and has revealed he was misleading police during

1023
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 3: the search and posting Facebook messages after the murder, that

1024
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 3: he was doing well, so sunshine Sunny Stewart. She was

1025
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 3: forty eight years old. She vanished while paddle boarding on

1026
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 3: Crawford Pond in Union, Maine on July second, during a

1027
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 3: solo trip. Her body was discovered the next morning on

1028
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 3: a one hundred acre island, and police later arrested Devin Young,

1029
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 3: a seventeen year old boy who was vacationing nearby with

1030
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 3: his family. So he was arrested on July sixteenth, so

1031
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 3: fourteen days two weeks later, and charge and murder with

1032
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 3: connection with her death. He volunteered in the search for Stewart. Now,

1033
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 3: we often hear a lot of times sometimes these murderers

1034
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 3: will involve themselves in the case, right, They'll be overly invested.

1035
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 3: They'll create like Facebook groups to help search for this person,

1036
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,760
Speaker 3: all these kinds of like they just over involved themselves.

1037
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 3: So we see it quite often. Right, While, he was

1038
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 3: arranged virtually on July eighteenth, two days after his arrest

1039
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 3: in Knox County court and denied the murder chargers. And

1040
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 3: here's the kind of silly thing. But he posted on

1041
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 3: Facebook in the days after the killing that he was

1042
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 3: doing well, which was deleted after his arrest. I'm not

1043
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 3: really sure what the significance is there, but the fact

1044
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 3: that it was deleted after his arrest raises a little

1045
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:59,280
Speaker 3: bit of suspicion. Prosecutors are considering trying him as an adult,

1046
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 3: citing the violent nature of the crime.

1047
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 2: That's right, Like, very few details have been released about

1048
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,920
Speaker 2: very violent nature, right, so you would have to assume

1049
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 2: it's pretty bad, right. You know, I've seen so many

1050
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 2: testimony from her loved ones. She was such a beloved,

1051
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 2: beloved person, the Paddle Border victim, and you know, this guy,

1052
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 2: if this is accurate, it's really we have to have

1053
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 2: his head examined.

1054
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 3: What is happening. Yeah, it's really really sad. Another very

1055
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:31,720
Speaker 3: quick headline, Eric Mendez is in hospital. He's been taking

1056
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:36,320
Speaker 3: taken to a hospital for a quote unquote serious medical condition.

1057
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 3: TMZ is reporting that it's actually kidney stones, and they're

1058
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 3: also reporting that it's possible that Gavin Newsom gives him

1059
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 3: a medical furlough until the Pearl hearing in August, which

1060
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 3: is very Entah. Yeah, well I don't know that I

1061
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 3: followed that correctly. Okay, So Eric Eric Mendez is in

1062
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 3: the hospital. He was having some health problems it's being reported.

1063
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 3: It's being reported that he's battling a serious, undisclosed medical

1064
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 3: condition and he and his brother Lyle are preparing for

1065
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 3: the Pearl hearing in August. Right. Well, it's also being

1066
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 3: reported by TMZ that the serious metal condition he's battling

1067
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 3: is kidney stones, and they're also reporting that it's possible

1068
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 3: that Gavin Newsom is going to grant him a medical

1069
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 3: furlough until the Pearl hearing, which meaning that he'll spend

1070
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,800
Speaker 3: his time in the hospital and not go back to prison. Wow.

1071
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 3: But that's again, it's not done. It's just a consideration.

1072
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 3: It's just a consideration. That is interesting. We're going to

1073
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 3: cover this more tomorrow with doron O Fear our wonderful friend.

1074
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 3: We love him. He's going to be here tomorrow. But

1075
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 3: what's interesting is that guess who was on Gavin Newsom's

1076
00:54:52,840 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 3: podcast yesterday. Yes, Ryan Murphy. Yes, Ryan Murphy, who did

1077
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 3: the Menendez document or show movie. Yes, the Monster was

1078
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:09,760
Speaker 3: on Gavin Newsom's podcast. I thought that was very interesting.

1079
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 2: And listen, this dentist. We've been talking a ton about him,

1080
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 2: the dentist, the dopey dentist. Yeah, so we want to

1081
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 2: hear your thoughts first and foremost, and listen. Make sure

1082
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 2: you stay with us through the week, because again tomorrow

1083
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 2: big headlines. The Brian Coburger, Idaho student murders killer is

1084
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 2: going to be sentenced. Even the President has weighed in

1085
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 2: about how he hopes this will go, and we're all

1086
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 2: kind of curious to see if he will shed any

1087
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:39,839
Speaker 2: details or will he be forced to maybe give an

1088
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 2: allocution and tell some of the details that we're all

1089
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,280
Speaker 2: wanting answers for. Body is shaking her head right now.

1090
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 2: I tend to think the same. I don't think that

1091
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 2: will happen, but you know, we really want to give

1092
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 2: our hearts and love to the surviving roommates and of

1093
00:55:55,800 --> 00:56:00,040
Speaker 2: course the families and friends of the victim, So you

1094
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 2: know that's going to be a very hard day. In

1095
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 2: their victim statements I'm sure will hit us all pretty hard.

1096
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 2: And also Doronto fear, our pop culture expert will also

1097
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 2: be joining us. So very excited about that, Courtney, where

1098
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 2: did you want to start? Well, I have a sad story.

1099
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 2: I have a senseless story.

1100
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 7: American idle music supervisor who was just beloved by all

1101
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 7: all accounts. She's a woman named Robin Kay, her and

1102
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 7: her husband Thomas de Luco. They were fatally shot in

1103
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 7: a burglary. We spoke about it when it first happened.

1104
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:38,399
Speaker 7: Authorities are now saying that the suspect actually called nine

1105
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 7: one one on himself.

1106
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 3: It's sort of very strange.

1107
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,360
Speaker 7: So the pair Robin Kay and her husband, Thomas de Luco,

1108
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,720
Speaker 7: who was a musician, they were found shot to death

1109
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 7: in their home. This was on July fourteenth, and that

1110
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 7: happened during a welfare check. However, four days prior, police

1111
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 7: had responded to a burglary call on July tenth, so

1112
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 7: four days before their bodies were found, and when they

1113
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 7: went there on the tenth, police did not go into

1114
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 7: the house, so potentially they missed an opportunity to discover

1115
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 7: the crime much earlier. And what authorities are alleging is

1116
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 7: that the twenty two year old Raymond Bouderian that he

1117
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 7: broke into the couple's house and shot them with their

1118
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 7: own gun after they came home to their house, and

1119
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 7: then again called nine one one on himself to report

1120
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 7: the incident. And I'm not finding what the rationale is.

1121
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 7: I don't know if either of you have any further

1122
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 7: information it's hard to make sense.

1123
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 2: I get to say that Robin was really beloved and

1124
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 2: her husband as well, but just speaking on those that

1125
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 2: I know close to her, that she was like the

1126
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 2: real deal and that American n Idol family, they all

1127
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 2: take each other so seriously, they work so closely, they

1128
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 2: work together for such a long time that it is

1129
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 2: senseless is an understatement, exclamation point period. We're really just

1130
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 2: so sorry to hear this. You know, there's nothing really

1131
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 2: to say other than this seems like there was a

1132
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 2: home invasion gone wrong. There was also some reports about

1133
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 2: a neighbor seeing somebody trying to hop the fence days prior,

1134
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 2: so I guess this speaks to, you know, keep an

1135
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 2: eye out for each other. We all have to for

1136
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 2: our neighbors, et cetera. No one's really immune to this

1137
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 2: level of violence. No, and yeah, senseless is simply the

1138
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 2: only word for this. As more information emerges, we will

1139
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 2: keep you up to date, and in the meantime, we're

1140
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 2: going to hear from you with the.

1141
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 8: Talkback true Graham lighties. Now we're doing a fantastic job.

1142
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 8: We're huge fans. Be in my eighty one year old

1143
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 8: mother fish than every night anyway, if you're a kind

1144
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 8: of famil in Idaho and coburger, write a book, get

1145
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 8: an interview, any of that, I did conflicting answer, so

1146
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 8: I didn't want to hear your take on it. You'll

1147
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 8: have a great night.

1148
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 3: That's so sweet.

1149
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 2: We're so I wish we knew your name so we

1150
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 2: could give you a nightly shout out, give us a call.

1151
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 3: You got to call us back with your names and

1152
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 3: thank you for listening. So that's a super good question.

1153
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 3: I think we went over this a couple of shows ago,

1154
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 3: but very briefly, the United States Supreme Court basically ruled

1155
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 3: that the son of Sam law was unconstitutional because it

1156
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 3: was too broad in what they were restricting. They were

1157
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 3: restricting even speech like if like a true crime creator,

1158
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 3: for instance, wouldn't be able to make money from their

1159
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 3: content because it's about the crime. So it was just

1160
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 3: far too broad. It didn't focus on the perpetrator. So

1161
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 3: what ended up happening was states kind of took over

1162
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 3: the responsibility for creating their own son of Sam laws

1163
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 3: and then using net quotes. Idaho's approach has been to

1164
00:59:55,080 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 3: allow people to write a book and do interviews for money,

1165
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 3: but have that money be sent to the families if

1166
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 3: the families sue. So it kind of sucks, all right,

1167
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 3: because not only do the families have to raise funds

1168
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 3: to get a lawyer to go after that money, but

1169
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 3: if they're not in a position to do that, what

1170
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 3: do they do?

1171
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 9: Right?

1172
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 3: So that's basically what it comes down to is that, yes,

1173
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 3: Brian Coberger would be able to write a book, sell

1174
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 3: his story, you know whatever, But we know for certain

1175
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:30,440
Speaker 3: the families will not allow that. The families will take

1176
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 3: legal action and they will intercede and intercept that money.

1177
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 3: So that's the answer. It's sickening. It's so sickening. Yeah,

1178
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 3: and I feel so strongly about it.

1179
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 2: I don't think that nobody should be able to benefit

1180
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,520
Speaker 2: from something so disgusting right now. I feel differently on

1181
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 2: the Karen Read case, for example, if she did a

1182
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 2: book deal.

1183
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 3: She was acquitted.

1184
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 2: She's acquitted totally on hold, you know, she you know,

1185
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 2: couldn't go to her own job. What a hassle to

1186
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 2: be wrongfully convicted of something or accused of something, I

1187
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 2: should say, But if Brian sees it dime, I have

1188
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 2: a hard time believing that the families will not lose

1189
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 2: their minds and go to the end of the earth

1190
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 2: to fight.

1191
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 3: I cannot imagine, especially Steve, right, I mean, and I

1192
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 3: always say Steve because it's just the most vocal. I

1193
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 3: don't mean any disrespect to the other failingly, because I

1194
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 3: absolutely respect the way like the Chapins are handling things

1195
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 3: like they're so graceful and like just wonderful. But Steve

1196
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 3: is a fighter, right Steve. Everybody handles things differently, and

1197
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 3: Steve's way of fighting this is to be a fighter

1198
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 3: because he's, you know, just a vocal guy. I just

1199
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 3: can't imagine that he would just let this slide. He's

1200
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 3: just it's just not going to happen. So you're listening

1201
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 3: to True Crime tonight, where we talk true crime all

1202
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 3: the time. I'm body and I'm here with Courtney and

1203
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 3: Stephanie and we're basically having talkback roulette right now. If

1204
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 3: you want to give us a call eight eight eight

1205
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 3: thirty one crime or leave us a talkback to join

1206
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 3: on the roulette, please do so, and let's do the

1207
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 3: next talkback. What do we got? Hi?

1208
01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 14: This is Marion from Wisconsin and I have a question

1209
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 14: about Brian Koeberg, wondering you know, we hear a lot

1210
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 14: about how we potentially could have stopped a serial killer

1211
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 14: or we stopped him from murdering again.

1212
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 3: But how do we really know he's not murdered before?

1213
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 2: I mean, that is the question of the century. You know,

1214
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 2: we did the podcast the Idaho Massacre. Body was on it,

1215
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 2: Courtney and I made it. You'll recognize Courtney's voice, she

1216
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 2: voices it so beautifully, and that was sort of the

1217
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 2: jump off place we were really trying to almost see,

1218
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:37,479
Speaker 2: if he didn't do it, who did?

1219
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 3: Number one? And number two?

1220
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:42,680
Speaker 2: Is it possible that if he did do it, he

1221
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 2: probably would have struck before because you know, we had

1222
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 2: been told, you know, by many that it's rare for

1223
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 2: someone to kill for the first time for people, certainly

1224
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 2: if they've been planning it, which it appears he had been.

1225
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 2: There are exceptions to that, and we can talk about

1226
01:02:58,120 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 2: that also.

1227
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 3: But you know, on its.

1228
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 2: Nose, you know BTK, who's you know that short for

1229
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 2: a bound torture kill with sort of this nickname given

1230
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:09,960
Speaker 2: to a man who killed a family of four or

1231
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 2: five I think four first kill. Yeah, So that's very

1232
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 2: rare though, so we had to assume that there was

1233
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 2: some sort of nefarious behavior maybe leading up to that

1234
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 2: maybe it wasn't murder, but maybe there was sexual abuse

1235
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 2: or sexual assault, you know, violent rape.

1236
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 3: And we didn't find any.

1237
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 2: We didn't find that ourselves during our investigations.

1238
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:32,160
Speaker 3: But that's not to say it didn't happen, right, And

1239
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 3: if you guys remember if you followed this case as

1240
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 3: closely as we all have, back in May of twenty

1241
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 3: twenty three, it was like five months after he was arrested,

1242
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 3: his parents were called to a grand jury in Pennsylvania

1243
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 3: to be questioned in front of the grand jury about

1244
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 3: the death of Danas Smithers and to see if there

1245
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:54,440
Speaker 3: was a connection between Brian Coberger and this Dana Smithers

1246
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 3: woman who was killed. And they found that there was

1247
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 3: no connection, that Brian actually had a pretty rock solid

1248
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 3: alibi the night that she went missing, so they rolled

1249
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 3: it out. But my point in bringing all that up

1250
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 3: is that the law law enforcement definitely is looking into

1251
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 3: that right and now you know, we know that they

1252
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:13,919
Speaker 3: did a buckle swab when he was arrested, So now

1253
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 3: his DNA is of course in codis, so anything that

1254
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 3: they can run now they'll be able to run it

1255
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 3: against his DNA, which is fabulous to see if any

1256
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 3: crimes you know, were committed. But I want to talk

1257
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 3: about something very quickly in the search warrant results. So

1258
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 3: when there's a search warrant done and it's public like this,

1259
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 3: like this was, they list everything that they took from

1260
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:42,080
Speaker 3: the house, right, and in Pennsylvania one of the things

1261
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 3: they took from the house was it says IDs in

1262
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 3: a glove. Right. Do you guys remember what I'm talking about?

1263
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 3: Of course? Yeah. Well I've always kind of wondered what

1264
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 3: IDs are in this glove in his bedroom? What if?

1265
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 3: And this is speculation alert, I need a sound, Yeah,

1266
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 3: I need to say, I need I need a sound

1267
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 3: speculation sound, Okay that I do play. Yeah, that was excellent.

1268
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:15,760
Speaker 3: What if My first theory on this case, before anybody

1269
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:18,000
Speaker 3: was even arrested, was that it was possibly a peeping

1270
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 3: tom that things just went too far, all right, And

1271
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 3: so what if these IDs they had in this glove

1272
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:29,840
Speaker 3: were of women in Pennsylvania that he was peeping on

1273
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 3: and like was taking things from their house.

1274
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 2: Oh, because that is a signature move and signature it's

1275
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 2: a very great So yeah, you're probably right about that.

1276
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:42,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I know it is. Well, we know that

1277
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 2: he was like spooking on girls because of the dateline leak.

1278
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 2: We've seen this that he was taking photographs of girls

1279
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 2: in bikinis that were connected to the victims. So he

1280
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:54,439
Speaker 2: was that guy who was like taking photographs of women

1281
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 2: he didn't necessarily know in rakhinis.

1282
01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:59,240
Speaker 3: So on that search worm, it says, you know, like

1283
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 3: all the things they in one of them. I just

1284
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 3: want to really quick cover this because I mentioned it

1285
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 3: what a buckle swab is, and it's basically when they

1286
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 3: swab the inside of your cheek for DNA. It's called

1287
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:11,840
Speaker 3: the buckle swab, bugle swab. So that's that's also in

1288
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 3: the search worm, you know, the buckle swab. So I

1289
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 3: don't know, I just I just always kind of thought, well,

1290
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:19,440
Speaker 3: maybe and hopefully we're going to find out once the

1291
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:22,200
Speaker 3: gag is one hundred percent lifted and documents are released.

1292
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 3: And by the way, the Moscow City of Moscow is

1293
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:28,520
Speaker 3: creating a website that we'll be able to go to

1294
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 3: when all the documents are released and we'll post that.

1295
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:35,800
Speaker 7: Oh and then see as all of the court documents

1296
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 7: are released.

1297
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 3: Right. So, but you know, maybe maybe they were his

1298
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 3: IDs in this glove. I don't know. It doesn't say

1299
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 3: just but they're only allowed to take things in relation

1300
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 3: to what they think is related to the crime. They

1301
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 3: can't just take dishes from your sink, right, they have

1302
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:54,520
Speaker 3: to have reasonable suspicion that it was is in relation

1303
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 3: to the crime that they're you know, doing the search

1304
01:06:57,320 --> 01:07:00,320
Speaker 3: worm Well, so got to be related to something and

1305
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 3: it could be his because you know anyway, yeah, I

1306
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:04,439
Speaker 3: mean it could.

1307
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:06,240
Speaker 2: We should continue this. I'm sort of curious where you

1308
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 2: were going to say.

1309
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 3: Court, Okay, well we'll stick around. We're ending, We're going

1310
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 3: to continue this conversation. Stick around, We've got more to

1311
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 3: dig into. Stay right here at True Crime tonight where

1312
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,320
Speaker 3: we're talking true crime all the time.

1313
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 2: It's that time where it gives a little bit squarely

1314
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:32,440
Speaker 2: here in the studio. So shout out to the team.

1315
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 2: By the way, we have the best team in the business,

1316
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 2: Adam Sam taha Eva.

1317
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 3: Oh when we have Riley, now we go.

1318
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 2: I can't wait for you guys all to meet them.

1319
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 2: They will be making little appearances here and there, but

1320
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 2: and of course to Oscar. So we're really grateful. So anyway,

1321
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 2: we are going to go to a talk back.

1322
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 3: Hi.

1323
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:56,160
Speaker 15: How they're from Wisconsin. Just wondering in response to the

1324
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 15: callback or talk back about Carla Homolko. One thing I've

1325
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 15: now understood about that case isn't part of a normal

1326
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 15: plea deal that if they find out you're lying, your

1327
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 15: plea deal is null and void. Like they made a

1328
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 15: deal with the devil, But wouldn't that be no longer

1329
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 15: once they found out she was culpable?

1330
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:17,760
Speaker 3: Thank you love this show. I love the question. I

1331
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:19,880
Speaker 3: feel like we say that every time. No, I mean

1332
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:23,200
Speaker 3: I I love our listen. Literally, I'm not even kissing,

1333
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 3: but our listeners are so smart. I love them. I

1334
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 3: absolutely love them, so really quick overview of Paul Bernardo

1335
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 3: and Carla Homolka. For those who don't know, this is

1336
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 3: like the most infamous murder case out of Canada, I don't.

1337
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 7: This is confession. I do not know that kenon barbiecase.

1338
01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:40,600
Speaker 7: Oh you don't know.

1339
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:43,639
Speaker 3: I'm actually it's I have to tell you my only

1340
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 3: the only reason I know about it is because of

1341
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:48,760
Speaker 3: Luca mcnontagh. Oh, it's so okay. He was pretending to

1342
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:50,840
Speaker 3: be in a relationship with Carla. So that's how I

1343
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 3: know about I had her because I had a researcher.

1344
01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:57,280
Speaker 3: I was like, who okay anyway, Kennon Okay. So they

1345
01:08:57,439 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 3: killed a bunch of girls, all right, and that's the

1346
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:01,599
Speaker 3: summary is.

1347
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 2: Like killed this understatement, they tortured or killed her a

1348
01:09:05,400 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 2: bunch of girls in men's Carla's sister, yeah right, oh yeah,

1349
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 2: and then like one of them had I see.

1350
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 3: Great now I'm remembering this. It's so dark. Here's what

1351
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:20,519
Speaker 3: happened though. When she when they were first arrested, Carla

1352
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:24,280
Speaker 3: portrayed herself as like a battered wife, right, like forced

1353
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 3: to help him in these things, otherwise she was going

1354
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:29,880
Speaker 3: to be killed, right. To avoid a harsher sentence, she

1355
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:33,720
Speaker 3: accepted a plea deal, which was twelve years for manslaughter,

1356
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 3: and she agreed to testify against him. Well after his arrest,

1357
01:09:38,280 --> 01:09:41,800
Speaker 3: police searched the house but initially failed to find a

1358
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:45,880
Speaker 3: lot of critical evidence. Months and months and months later,

1359
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:50,840
Speaker 3: Ernado's lawyer revealed he had found videotapes hidden inside a

1360
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:56,000
Speaker 3: light fixture, and these tapes showed Carla not only participating,

1361
01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:59,559
Speaker 3: but actively engaging in the assaults and the killing of

1362
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 3: the victor, which was contradicting her story. Right, And so

1363
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:07,080
Speaker 3: to our talkback caller, her her point was, well, her

1364
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:10,160
Speaker 3: plea deal she'll be null and void. Sure, but this

1365
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:15,120
Speaker 3: is Canada, okay, and Canadian law prevented reopening her case,

1366
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:17,640
Speaker 3: so they were it was already done. It was a

1367
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:21,560
Speaker 3: done deal. And there was massive outcry about this, like

1368
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 3: massive outcry about this, and I don't know. One thing.

1369
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 3: I don't know, and maybe maybe our friend in Canada

1370
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 3: can't call and let us know. Has the law changed.

1371
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:32,519
Speaker 3: I'm not sure. But by the time, by the time

1372
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 3: the tapes were reviewed by prosecutors or plea, bargain had

1373
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 3: already been finished, you know, finalized and done and filed

1374
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 3: with court the common you know, the province already had

1375
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 3: it like it was done deal. So no, they couldn't

1376
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:43,880
Speaker 3: change it.

1377
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:49,680
Speaker 7: But if that had happened in the United States, I

1378
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 7: don't know, Yeah, i'd.

1379
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:53,200
Speaker 3: Be well, one thing I know, okay, So you know,

1380
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:56,680
Speaker 3: Donald Trump recently tweeted about Brian Coberger. It's saying, you know,

1381
01:10:56,680 --> 01:11:01,720
Speaker 3: I'm urging Judge Hipler to force Brian Coberg to give details, right, Yeah,

1382
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:03,800
Speaker 3: And last night we talked about this and I had

1383
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:06,439
Speaker 3: said I don't think he can. You can't. The judge

1384
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 3: can't force anything. The plea it's already done, like once

1385
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:11,240
Speaker 3: it's filed with the court, and like, I don't think

1386
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:13,640
Speaker 3: they can. I don't think they could take there's no takebacks.

1387
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:17,599
Speaker 3: I would love to talk to an American lawyer. I'm

1388
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 3: not sure, but I think it's the same here I do.

1389
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 3: Is that possible.

1390
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 11: I don't know.

1391
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:25,720
Speaker 3: If you lie to get a plea deal? Yeah we should, Okay.

1392
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:27,680
Speaker 3: I don't want to answer because I don't want to

1393
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 3: be wrong until he's on our show.

1394
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:34,599
Speaker 7: But I am going to sidebar and see if our

1395
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 7: friend Kirk Nurmy can come on, and.

1396
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 2: Please, can you just come on the show just so

1397
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 2: we could hear it from you loud and clear. You

1398
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 2: know again, the Barbie We're gonna have to cover this

1399
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:48,719
Speaker 2: case in full. And I think it's worth noting they're

1400
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,600
Speaker 2: called the Barbie Killers because they were, you know, esthetically

1401
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 2: so good looking, and I think what's so scary about

1402
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:56,400
Speaker 2: it is, you know, on its nose. Yeah, they were

1403
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:59,680
Speaker 2: both very attractive. What a bunch of sickos, and they

1404
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 2: would basically lore young women, I want to say, like

1405
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:07,960
Speaker 2: fourteen and fifteen year olds and rape them and kill them.

1406
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:10,800
Speaker 2: And one of them had a sister, and the sister

1407
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:14,680
Speaker 2: I think was fifteen years old also and they basically

1408
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:17,800
Speaker 2: killed the sister and I think had sex with her

1409
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 2: her corpse, and it was like Christmas Day or Thanksgiving

1410
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 2: or something. So it's very very dark. But I think

1411
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 2: what was so scary about it also is they seemed

1412
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:31,360
Speaker 2: like a couple that had a big life ahead of them,

1413
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:33,960
Speaker 2: that had a lot of opportunities in front of them.

1414
01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:37,320
Speaker 2: They were very beautiful, probably granted a lot of you know,

1415
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:41,240
Speaker 2: easy rides because they were so good looking. Right, So,

1416
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 2: talk about the odds of two people coming together that

1417
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:49,200
Speaker 2: are that twisted is very rare, right, We don't see

1418
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 2: that too too often. And yeah, it turns out she

1419
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:55,000
Speaker 2: of course turns on them. But it's pretty baffling to

1420
01:12:55,080 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 2: me that those two aren't in a supermax.

1421
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:01,560
Speaker 3: I know she's out there walking free. That's insane.

1422
01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:05,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think he's also like eligible

1423
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 2: for parole, like after twenty five years or so, so

1424
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:11,200
Speaker 2: he might also see the light of day and again,

1425
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:13,400
Speaker 2: unspeakable things to minors.

1426
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:18,400
Speaker 3: Unspeakable. Yeah, well, you're listening to your crime tonight on iHeartRadio.

1427
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 3: I'm body movin and I'm here with Courtney and Stephanie

1428
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 3: and we're doing back Roulette again. This is fun. I

1429
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:25,479
Speaker 3: like the talk back roulette. Do we have another talk?

1430
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:25,720
Speaker 4: Pat?

1431
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:27,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do it.

1432
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:31,639
Speaker 13: This is Andrea and Utah Dre the Menimbos brother's case.

1433
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 13: I've been following that since the day it happened, and

1434
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:37,679
Speaker 13: it just really has astounded me where it has gotten

1435
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 13: to this whole big push to get them out is

1436
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:43,439
Speaker 13: asounding to me. You've got two people that are dead

1437
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:47,240
Speaker 13: that can even defend themselves against these allegations of abuse

1438
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:50,120
Speaker 13: against him. And I know you guys are big on

1439
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:52,639
Speaker 13: rehabilitation and things like that, but for me, what prison

1440
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:57,480
Speaker 13: is about is about consequence for actions. Sure against severe

1441
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:01,080
Speaker 13: actions and slaughtering your parents, really loading to shoot your

1442
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 13: mother in the space, I'm sorry, but the consequence of

1443
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 13: that is life in prison.

1444
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:06,080
Speaker 8: You know.

1445
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:07,800
Speaker 2: I got to be honest, you know how I've have

1446
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:11,200
Speaker 2: been divided about this one. I disagree with you. I

1447
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:14,160
Speaker 2: feel that way. I just think it's scary stuff. Why

1448
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:17,360
Speaker 2: is this the hill that we're dying on? Like the

1449
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 2: Menandez brothers did the crime, they're doing the time, they

1450
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:21,880
Speaker 2: seem to be sorting it out. I hope the kidney

1451
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:26,240
Speaker 2: stones clear up. We've heard that they're admirable citizens behind bars.

1452
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:28,920
Speaker 2: And they've gotten their masters. And you know, I'm not

1453
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:31,760
Speaker 2: in charge of the world. God knows, But isn't there

1454
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:34,080
Speaker 2: a better use of our time? Like, there's a lot

1455
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:36,280
Speaker 2: of criminals out there, there's a lot of people who

1456
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:40,840
Speaker 2: have been wrongly accused. This does happen. You know, they

1457
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 2: did the crime. They he did the crime.

1458
01:14:43,720 --> 01:14:44,880
Speaker 3: I don't know that. I disagree.

1459
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:48,080
Speaker 7: Oh so you way better use of our time. So

1460
01:14:48,439 --> 01:14:51,400
Speaker 7: you're saying that they should stay where they are.

1461
01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:55,400
Speaker 2: Potentially, you know, you murder two people in a very

1462
01:14:55,439 --> 01:15:01,240
Speaker 2: horrific murder. I find it hard to say, yeah, yeah, okay,

1463
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 2: all is forgiven. You had a tough, you know story

1464
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:06,559
Speaker 2: life seems like it was real bad, which, by the way,

1465
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:06,920
Speaker 2: it does.

1466
01:15:07,479 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 3: You know, they were sexually But you can.

1467
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 2: Say that for everyone. I think, like, yeah, line up

1468
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 2: every person in prison. They probably have a very difficult

1469
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:16,880
Speaker 2: tale to tell that got them there, Right, doesn't make

1470
01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:19,920
Speaker 2: the difference because they're there and listen at a very

1471
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:20,719
Speaker 2: serious crime.

1472
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 3: This is relevant to things that are happening today too, Right,

1473
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 3: Like we just talked. We were just talking about Bryan Coberger.

1474
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 3: He's being sentenced to put life in prison without parole. Right, Well,

1475
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:35,519
Speaker 3: what if in thirty years, they're like, well, we're gonna

1476
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:37,519
Speaker 3: he's gonna be up for parole. How we believed in

1477
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:39,600
Speaker 3: high school, you know, and it was really hard for

1478
01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:41,720
Speaker 3: him because because you know, he was he had like

1479
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:44,160
Speaker 3: how a fiction to Heroin? And I think this is

1480
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:47,520
Speaker 3: why Steve is so upset. Yeah, you know, like Steve Gonzalez,

1481
01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:49,800
Speaker 3: the father of one of the victims, is furious with this.

1482
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:53,240
Speaker 3: And I think the Menendaz Brothers is a good examples

1483
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:55,000
Speaker 3: to why he's furious with us.

1484
01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:57,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I get that, and you know, maybe I

1485
01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:59,559
Speaker 2: guess the consequence and maybe this it makes you feel

1486
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:01,840
Speaker 2: better a little bit call or thank you for the call.

1487
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 2: By the way, is that really the theory is that

1488
01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 2: not that they should necessarily just be released, even though

1489
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:09,479
Speaker 2: that's what's being discussed right now. It's really that maybe

1490
01:16:09,479 --> 01:16:12,120
Speaker 2: they were mischarged from Jeff Street because of all the

1491
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:15,840
Speaker 2: attention back in the eighties that they were really they

1492
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 2: were brought.

1493
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:19,160
Speaker 3: Up in the incorrect charges. If the sexual abuse had

1494
01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:21,280
Speaker 3: brought into the matter, then they would have served their

1495
01:16:21,320 --> 01:16:25,560
Speaker 3: time and likely be getting released around this time anyway.

1496
01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:28,120
Speaker 3: As opposed to life, right, you know, I would.

1497
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:29,840
Speaker 2: Think it would have been manslaughter, right, is what that

1498
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:30,959
Speaker 2: would have been considered.

1499
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:35,200
Speaker 3: So I think that's the argument. I don't think, but

1500
01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:35,800
Speaker 3: I'm with you.

1501
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:38,400
Speaker 2: I feel this way a little bit about Gypsy Rose,

1502
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:40,600
Speaker 2: even though I think she's a beautiful girl and I

1503
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:44,040
Speaker 2: wish her so well, I just kind of it's tough, man.

1504
01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:50,040
Speaker 3: You what's that body? I think Gypsy's a lot more

1505
01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:53,559
Speaker 3: sinisor than how could you not be?

1506
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:56,560
Speaker 7: And listen, I get the point of you start unraveling

1507
01:16:56,600 --> 01:16:59,720
Speaker 7: anyone's story and you'll probably start a sad beginning if

1508
01:16:59,760 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 7: the that the story, as you're in a supermax prison. However,

1509
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:08,960
Speaker 7: Gypsy Rose, she was born to a woman who tortured

1510
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:14,720
Speaker 7: and put her on display, and I mean did unconscionable

1511
01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:18,639
Speaker 7: things to her her entire life, and kept her a prisoner,

1512
01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:21,479
Speaker 7: not in just her own house, not just in a

1513
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:24,639
Speaker 7: wheelchair that she did not need, but inside her own body,

1514
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:29,400
Speaker 7: by poisoning her from within and without. How how do

1515
01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:30,600
Speaker 7: you not get murderous?

1516
01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:30,800
Speaker 4: Right?

1517
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:31,840
Speaker 3: How do you know it's true?

1518
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:34,280
Speaker 2: I just think it stinks that you know the person

1519
01:17:34,320 --> 01:17:37,160
Speaker 2: who did the murdering, who she put up to it

1520
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:39,880
Speaker 2: and gave the knife to, you know, like he's still

1521
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:42,479
Speaker 2: behind bars for a really long time, you know, like,

1522
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:45,759
Speaker 2: that's where it gets a little funky for me. You know, listen,

1523
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:48,760
Speaker 2: he isn't he troubled. He's also troubled and has a

1524
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:52,439
Speaker 2: very low IQ. And again, like I watched Gypsy and

1525
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:54,720
Speaker 2: her beautiful baby and and I wish her well, I'm not,

1526
01:17:55,040 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 2: you know, disparaging.

1527
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:58,040
Speaker 3: I'm trying not to, at least even though I think

1528
01:17:58,080 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 3: I am.

1529
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:03,160
Speaker 2: Actually I'm sorry, But looks like heroes and villains both

1530
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:09,040
Speaker 2: have the same origin story typically right, something to overcome,

1531
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:11,439
Speaker 2: and you can take a hero's path or a villain's,

1532
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:13,920
Speaker 2: and you know, it doesn't always roll out so great,

1533
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:16,080
Speaker 2: and you don't guarantee to get to go home and

1534
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:18,559
Speaker 2: be with your family for the Thanksgiving holiday if you've

1535
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:23,679
Speaker 2: slaughtered your parents. And again, anyway, I guess I'm talking

1536
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:24,439
Speaker 2: myself in a circle.

1537
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:27,880
Speaker 3: All stop. Emptly, I'm still confused by it. I'm a

1538
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:29,400
Speaker 3: little conflicted by it all well.

1539
01:18:29,439 --> 01:18:32,640
Speaker 2: And although I do believe in rehabilitation behind bars, and

1540
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:34,559
Speaker 2: I think that's such an important piece of the puzzle.

1541
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 3: I think both things can be true.

1542
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:39,519
Speaker 2: You can do the crime and do the time, and

1543
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:42,519
Speaker 2: maybe there's some rehabilitation to be added behind the scenes

1544
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:45,559
Speaker 2: as well. I think I don't think one necessarily precludes

1545
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:45,880
Speaker 2: the other.

1546
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:47,519
Speaker 3: Well, and the good news too is I don't think

1547
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:50,479
Speaker 3: the Menendez brothers are any risk to society. They was

1548
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:53,839
Speaker 3: a very targeted killing. They weren't like running the streets

1549
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:57,080
Speaker 3: shooting at you know, neighbors. It's very purposeful. It was

1550
01:18:57,160 --> 01:19:00,200
Speaker 3: very targeted. I don't think they're you know it, It's

1551
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:02,679
Speaker 3: not like he's a Brian Coberger who killed the stranger.

1552
01:19:02,760 --> 01:19:06,720
Speaker 3: They you know, they killed their parents, which is gross too.

1553
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:08,599
Speaker 3: But yeah, I just don't think that they're out a danger.

1554
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 3: So I don't I don't know. I think it's a

1555
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:10,639
Speaker 3: little different.

1556
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:13,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean fair same for Gypsy, right, I guess

1557
01:19:13,200 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 2: Gypsy is going to go running around and killing people.

1558
01:19:15,680 --> 01:19:18,759
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know about that, but body, thanks to body,

1559
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:24,720
Speaker 3: of course, I'm joking. I would never never suggest and

1560
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:27,400
Speaker 3: listen this talkbacker like, we want to do this more often,

1561
01:19:27,439 --> 01:19:30,000
Speaker 3: so we need more keep them coming. What a night Listen.

1562
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:31,760
Speaker 3: If you've missed any of the show, don't sweat. You

1563
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:34,760
Speaker 3: could always catch us right after as a podcast, So

1564
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:37,559
Speaker 3: make sure you do that because if you're not catching

1565
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:41,840
Speaker 3: us live on your ride in the evenings. By the way,

1566
01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:42,840
Speaker 3: we love it that you do.

1567
01:19:43,479 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 2: You could always just kind of download it as an

1568
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:47,120
Speaker 2: app right after, so be sure to do that. And

1569
01:19:47,200 --> 01:19:50,360
Speaker 2: thanks for the messages. We actually have a talkback right now.

1570
01:19:51,280 --> 01:19:51,920
Speaker 3: Hi, ladies.

1571
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:56,320
Speaker 16: Kind of a random thought, but I watched the documentary

1572
01:19:56,600 --> 01:20:01,760
Speaker 16: the other night about Amy Bradley, the twenty three year

1573
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:05,240
Speaker 16: old who disappeared thirty thirty five years ago on a

1574
01:20:05,240 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 16: cruise ship and the theories that she's still alive in

1575
01:20:08,479 --> 01:20:11,439
Speaker 16: the Islands. Is that a case that you guys might

1576
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:13,600
Speaker 16: talk about and dig into a little deeper. I know

1577
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:15,920
Speaker 16: there's a lot of interest on the internet about it.

1578
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:18,439
Speaker 3: Now, Oh, howda you were just talking about this during

1579
01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:20,960
Speaker 3: the break listen. I was going to talk. I wanted

1580
01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:22,519
Speaker 3: to talk about this. I'm so glad. Thank you for

1581
01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:25,240
Speaker 3: the talk back. By the way, I Indian and I

1582
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:29,200
Speaker 3: watched episode one. Okay, I'm not sure how many episodes

1583
01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:31,000
Speaker 3: are because we didn't we had stuff to do that

1584
01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:34,520
Speaker 3: day anyway, But we haven't moved forward. So my proposal.

1585
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:38,680
Speaker 3: I have a proposal for the team. The internet is

1586
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:42,160
Speaker 3: a buzz about this, this documentary. They really are, and

1587
01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 3: everyone's talking about it. Amy's brother is on x every

1588
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:51,360
Speaker 3: day giving these evidence. So here's what I was gonna say,

1589
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:55,679
Speaker 3: why don't we watch it together? Why don't you watch party?

1590
01:20:56,240 --> 01:20:59,080
Speaker 3: Not a not a viuting party, but tonight watch episode

1591
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:02,160
Speaker 3: one or you know whatever night we choose, just watch

1592
01:21:02,160 --> 01:21:04,519
Speaker 3: an episode, okay, and then the next night, well maybe

1593
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:06,439
Speaker 3: we watch another one. We could talk about it because

1594
01:21:06,479 --> 01:21:09,200
Speaker 3: everyone is talking about this case, okay, and I thought

1595
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:11,120
Speaker 3: it would be we have all of us, the.

1596
01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:15,280
Speaker 2: Whole crime crew, we all and maybe even our listeners

1597
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:21,840
Speaker 2: so tired. No, we don't do tonight, maybe I'm behind Yes,

1598
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:25,920
Speaker 2: tomorrow night, what about this?

1599
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 3: What about Thursday? We do a call to action? Yes,

1600
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:33,639
Speaker 3: okay for the team and our listeners. Oh yeah, maybe

1601
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:36,240
Speaker 3: they can watch it with us, like watch episode one

1602
01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:38,120
Speaker 3: and let's talk about it. Yes, yes, you know, and

1603
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:40,519
Speaker 3: we can. We can communicate via social media. You guys

1604
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:43,320
Speaker 3: call in, you can do we can do more talkback Roulette.

1605
01:21:43,320 --> 01:21:46,519
Speaker 3: I don't know about the about the episode, and we

1606
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:50,080
Speaker 3: could talk about the brothers tweets because they're very interesting.

1607
01:21:50,160 --> 01:21:52,720
Speaker 3: This is all very very interesting. I don't want to

1608
01:21:52,720 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 3: give too much away. I'm not going to, but I'm

1609
01:21:55,320 --> 01:21:58,040
Speaker 3: telling you I only watched one episode and I am hooked.

1610
01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:01,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't say that all the time. So you

1611
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:03,800
Speaker 2: don't your audience. You're a very good audience for this.

1612
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:06,280
Speaker 3: So it was Indy. So yeah, all right, I'm down.

1613
01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 3: I'm totally available.

1614
01:22:08,160 --> 01:22:09,760
Speaker 7: I am too, And I just want to say to

1615
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:13,519
Speaker 7: my niece Page Paige, I will be listening, because she

1616
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:15,679
Speaker 7: a couple of days ago tipped me off and said,

1617
01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:16,920
Speaker 7: you have to watch this.

1618
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:23,000
Speaker 3: I know everybody. I know. I'm critrigued, I'm scared. I

1619
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:25,040
Speaker 3: don't want her to be missing any We'll talk about

1620
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:27,639
Speaker 3: it Thursday. Then in the show, like, hey, this are

1621
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:28,920
Speaker 3: called The Action. I don't know. I thought it. I

1622
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:31,640
Speaker 3: thought it might be a fun way for us a

1623
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:33,639
Speaker 3: book club but not really kind of like a book

1624
01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:39,160
Speaker 3: club documentary, Yes, my kind of book club. And I

1625
01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:41,719
Speaker 3: thought it would be fun for you know, everyone who

1626
01:22:42,040 --> 01:22:45,760
Speaker 3: is our true crime crew to follow along and participate

1627
01:22:45,800 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 3: with us, and but you know, maybe call and say, Botty,

1628
01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:50,280
Speaker 3: didn't you see that? Wow? Are you forgetting that happened?

1629
01:22:50,280 --> 01:22:51,720
Speaker 3: You know? Yeah, okay, let's do it.

1630
01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:53,880
Speaker 2: Let's do I thought it'd be fun, all right, So

1631
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:58,000
Speaker 2: we're going to do appointment viewing and then we're going

1632
01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:01,280
Speaker 2: to have a discussion after I'll questions and answers will

1633
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:04,000
Speaker 2: be welcomed and yeah, I'm down to the bone.

1634
01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:07,120
Speaker 3: Awesome, Okay, good, I'm so thank you for the talkback.

1635
01:23:07,400 --> 01:23:10,040
Speaker 3: It reminded me of what I wanted to propose. I

1636
01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:12,080
Speaker 3: was going to propose it on recall that we have

1637
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:13,880
Speaker 3: every day and something all day to you'll be like

1638
01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:16,040
Speaker 3: I have an idea, I have this idea, and then

1639
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:19,719
Speaker 3: you mentioned that case, so you almost would have full circle.

1640
01:23:20,120 --> 01:23:23,000
Speaker 3: I would say that was meant to be, just like

1641
01:23:23,120 --> 01:23:26,400
Speaker 3: being with you guys is meant to be and it's

1642
01:23:26,439 --> 01:23:28,400
Speaker 3: the best. So we're getting the longer. We have a

1643
01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:29,280
Speaker 3: big day tomorrow.

1644
01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:33,000
Speaker 2: I feel so anxious even just thinking about this hearing tomorrow.

1645
01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:35,720
Speaker 2: So make sure you tune in and again leave us

1646
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:37,800
Speaker 2: all your messages. Please call in eight eight eight three

1647
01:23:37,880 --> 01:23:42,000
Speaker 2: one crime and keep those talkbacks coming. We so appreciate

1648
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:45,120
Speaker 2: your listening. More on this. This is true crying tonight.

1649
01:23:45,280 --> 01:23:47,920
Speaker 2: We've been talking true crime all the time. Have a

1650
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:59,479
Speaker 2: wonderful night and stay safe.

1651
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:00,519
Speaker 4: Two