WEBVTT - Serj Tankian 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:20.356 --> 0:00:23.796 Serge Tonkien made his debut as the idiosyncratic lead singer 0:00:23.836 --> 0:00:26.476 of the late nineties metal band System of a Down. 0:00:27.156 --> 0:00:30.156 After releasing five platinum selling albums with the band and 0:00:30.276 --> 0:00:33.956 establishing himself as one of modern day music's most outspoken 0:00:34.076 --> 0:00:37.476 human rights activists, in two thousand and seven, Serge Tonkien 0:00:37.636 --> 0:00:40.396 left System of a Down to pursue his own endeavors. 0:00:41.116 --> 0:00:45.556 Since then, he's released solo albums, composed symphonies, scored documentaries, 0:00:45.956 --> 0:00:49.236 and most recently started producing a line of Armenian coffee 0:00:49.316 --> 0:00:52.836 with a shop in Los Angeles. In May, Surge also 0:00:52.876 --> 0:00:55.956 released a memoir called Down with the System that details 0:00:55.956 --> 0:00:58.876 his personal story that starts in Beirut before his family 0:00:58.916 --> 0:01:01.476 immigrated to La during the Lebanese Civil War in the 0:01:01.556 --> 0:01:05.836 nineteen seventies. Serge's memoir also details his family's history in 0:01:05.916 --> 0:01:09.116 Armenia and their chilling plight during the genocide of Night 0:01:09.116 --> 0:01:13.236 eighteen fifteen. On today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Surge 0:01:13.276 --> 0:01:16.476 Tonkien about why he always felt like an outsider, including 0:01:16.516 --> 0:01:19.756 inside a System of Down. He also explains why it 0:01:19.796 --> 0:01:22.596 was so essential for him to exercises demons on stage 0:01:22.996 --> 0:01:25.396 and the one fundamental change that needs to take place 0:01:25.476 --> 0:01:30.516 in order for him to record new music with his band. 0:01:30.836 --> 0:01:34.076 This is broken record liner notes for the digital age. 0:01:34.236 --> 0:01:39.476 I'm justin Mitchman. Here's Leo Rose's conversation with Serge Tonkien. 0:01:40.276 --> 0:01:43.436 When you and Darren first started playing together. When you're 0:01:43.916 --> 0:01:47.596 in the band Soil, how did you settle on a sound? 0:01:47.676 --> 0:01:49.516 Did you know it was going to be sort of 0:01:49.556 --> 0:01:52.596 like a progressive metal sound or was there ever talk 0:01:52.796 --> 0:01:55.116 of a different sort of direction or was that just 0:01:55.156 --> 0:01:56.036 sort of understood. 0:01:56.676 --> 0:01:59.316 I love how you asked that question, as if any 0:01:59.356 --> 0:02:03.116 band gets together and sits down ahead of time and goes, 0:02:03.356 --> 0:02:05.356 what is a sound that we're going to make? It's 0:02:05.396 --> 0:02:07.836 not like that at all. Someone just starts playing something 0:02:07.836 --> 0:02:10.036 and someone else does something still but over, and then 0:02:10.036 --> 0:02:13.116 you have a sound. You know, it's so intuitive and 0:02:13.316 --> 0:02:15.436 so non logical. 0:02:15.716 --> 0:02:17.236 You're not like, oh, we want to be a yacht 0:02:17.356 --> 0:02:17.996 rock band. 0:02:18.476 --> 0:02:20.956 Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's bands that do that, 0:02:21.236 --> 0:02:24.356 you know, that that think it through. But I don't 0:02:24.436 --> 0:02:28.076 think as a new band, you know. I mean, if 0:02:28.076 --> 0:02:31.196 you're an established musician getting together with other established musicians 0:02:31.596 --> 0:02:34.396 knowing what you want to create, that's one thing. But 0:02:34.476 --> 0:02:37.916 we were all like kids getting together making noise. You know, 0:02:37.996 --> 0:02:40.956 it's there's no cerebral process to that. 0:02:41.516 --> 0:02:44.076 You weren't really like a metal guy though, right like 0:02:44.676 --> 0:02:46.236 Darren was more of a metal head. 0:02:46.516 --> 0:02:51.276 Darren Nshable. Both both are huge metal metal heads and 0:02:51.276 --> 0:02:53.596 and I wasn't no I was. You know, my influence 0:02:53.636 --> 0:02:57.356 has come from all over the place, you know, all 0:02:57.436 --> 0:02:59.956 different types of music, but not that I didn't listen 0:02:59.956 --> 0:03:01.916 to rock. My brother was a huge metal fan, so 0:03:01.916 --> 0:03:04.356 I would listen to rock and metal with him at 0:03:04.356 --> 0:03:07.716 home because he was a huge fan. But it wasn't 0:03:07.756 --> 0:03:09.756 my first sound that I was in introduced to. So 0:03:10.036 --> 0:03:12.716 you know, I'm a stranger in every aspect of my 0:03:12.876 --> 0:03:17.556 life politically, musically, it's always from the left, like coming 0:03:17.596 --> 0:03:21.556 into these arenas that I'm an outsider in every way, 0:03:22.036 --> 0:03:25.196 and it's okay because I was able to bring something 0:03:25.236 --> 0:03:27.876 to the table because of it, you know, because I 0:03:27.916 --> 0:03:31.196 didn't have the same influences. And even when I screamed, 0:03:31.676 --> 0:03:34.276 I tried to sing, and my melodies were different, my 0:03:34.316 --> 0:03:39.676 words were different, and you know, as a lyricist, I 0:03:39.676 --> 0:03:42.196 didn't know that I can't squeeze a thousand words in 0:03:42.236 --> 0:03:45.076 a second. Nobody told me, you know, so I tried. 0:03:45.316 --> 0:03:48.876 You know, the words were important, So I tried. If 0:03:48.876 --> 0:03:50.356 it means I have to go one hundred miles an 0:03:50.356 --> 0:03:52.436 hour with my worst and so be it, because I 0:03:52.476 --> 0:03:54.756 need to say that essay or whatever, I need to 0:03:54.836 --> 0:03:57.396 make that statement, kind of like the prison song you 0:03:57.436 --> 0:04:01.196 know You're actually it's a small treatise with a chorus 0:04:01.236 --> 0:04:04.436 that you're just bam, it's all there, you know. But 0:04:04.556 --> 0:04:06.876 it worked. It worked because it's different. 0:04:07.076 --> 0:04:09.116 Because you were in a band with guys who were 0:04:09.196 --> 0:04:13.476 sort of like metal purists. Did they question your style, 0:04:13.556 --> 0:04:16.516 your lyrical style, or were they just kind of cool 0:04:16.516 --> 0:04:18.276 with it where they're like, no, dude, Like people in 0:04:18.316 --> 0:04:19.836 the community are not gonna like this. 0:04:20.716 --> 0:04:23.276 For me, Metal, if it gets too hard, it gets 0:04:23.316 --> 0:04:26.116 so funny to me. It's kind of like horror movies, right, 0:04:26.156 --> 0:04:28.516 if it gets too crazy, it's so over the top. 0:04:28.556 --> 0:04:31.276 I start laughing with horror movies, and the same with metal. 0:04:31.316 --> 0:04:34.276 If it gets too crazy, it becomes funny to me. 0:04:34.356 --> 0:04:36.876 So I remember one time when we wrote the song Bounce. 0:04:37.476 --> 0:04:40.356 Before Bounce, the lyrics were completely different. I wanted to 0:04:40.356 --> 0:04:44.356 write a very heavy metal song about pajamas, silk pajamas, 0:04:44.676 --> 0:04:47.476 you know, which is totally that I askue, right, like 0:04:47.716 --> 0:04:50.836 something Zappa would do, But that was for me. I 0:04:50.876 --> 0:04:52.756 was like, oh my god, could you imagine writing a 0:04:52.796 --> 0:04:55.636 really heavy song about pajamas like the Dalai Lama's pajamas 0:04:55.676 --> 0:04:58.756 and Elton John's pajamas and you just keep on going 0:04:59.036 --> 0:05:01.636 and it becomes this funny thing and they both look 0:05:01.676 --> 0:05:04.556 at me, like with scorn, and they're like, no, bro, 0:05:05.036 --> 0:05:07.116 you're not going to make us look like that, you know, 0:05:07.236 --> 0:05:09.116 like that kind of a thing. So there was always 0:05:09.236 --> 0:05:13.756 this attitude don't fuck with the metal, So yeah, you know, 0:05:13.876 --> 0:05:17.876 but I fucked with it enough, you know, definitely. 0:05:18.676 --> 0:05:20.956 So did you always feel like an outsider the whole 0:05:20.956 --> 0:05:23.316 time in the band or did you start to sort 0:05:23.316 --> 0:05:26.396 of like understand the ways of the metal world where 0:05:26.396 --> 0:05:27.556 you could blend in. 0:05:28.476 --> 0:05:31.516 Yeah, I mean, you know, we toured opening for Slayer 0:05:31.636 --> 0:05:34.036 for a year, you know, so you do blend and 0:05:34.036 --> 0:05:36.836 you learn the lessons. It was like Luke Kent for us. 0:05:36.916 --> 0:05:40.076 You know, you have these really hardcore fans that you know, 0:05:40.156 --> 0:05:42.476 would use a knife to make a tattoo in their 0:05:42.556 --> 0:05:44.756 arm of Slayer and stuff going like this to you, 0:05:44.796 --> 0:05:47.196 and you've got to nod, how to duck and cover 0:05:47.276 --> 0:05:50.156 and yell and scream and use use your authority and 0:05:50.236 --> 0:05:52.356 learn how to control an audience and all of that stuff. 0:05:52.596 --> 0:05:55.836 It was more performance art. Really well, I do love metal, 0:05:55.876 --> 0:05:58.036 don't get me wrong. I love rock. I love metal, 0:05:58.356 --> 0:06:00.836 but I don't necessarily love it over other types of music. 0:06:01.196 --> 0:06:02.916 I love other types of music as well. 0:06:03.556 --> 0:06:05.556 You just seem like such a chill guy, like you 0:06:05.596 --> 0:06:07.996 don't seem inherently metal. 0:06:08.036 --> 0:06:11.796 But people always so, you know, like when I'm on stage, 0:06:11.836 --> 0:06:13.916 they're like, you're crazy on stage, but in person, you're 0:06:13.956 --> 0:06:16.556 so senssible, and I'm like, well, the music's heavy. If 0:06:16.596 --> 0:06:18.596 you were playing jazz on stage, I wouldn't be screaming, 0:06:18.836 --> 0:06:21.156 believe me, you know. So it just you give the 0:06:21.236 --> 0:06:24.316 music what it needs as a performer, right, and that's it. 0:06:24.996 --> 0:06:28.556 Early on, was it a way for you to process 0:06:29.556 --> 0:06:32.196 different emotions and things you were going through and just 0:06:32.316 --> 0:06:36.236 personal frustrations and as a young man, was it a 0:06:36.236 --> 0:06:37.676 way for you to channel aggression? 0:06:38.596 --> 0:06:42.196 Absolutely, it was a gift, you know, being able to 0:06:42.316 --> 0:06:46.876 use music to exercise my demons and my anger and 0:06:46.916 --> 0:06:49.236 my frustrations with what was going on in my life 0:06:49.236 --> 0:06:51.076 at the time. Was a gift. I think had I 0:06:51.156 --> 0:06:54.316 started with pop music, I may have ended up killing someone. 0:06:54.876 --> 0:06:58.396 I'm just kidding, but you know, pop musicians usually are 0:06:58.396 --> 0:07:02.916 not happy people. They exercise all their positivity and end 0:07:02.996 --> 0:07:07.156 up negative sometimes. But yeah, I think, you know, having 0:07:07.516 --> 0:07:14.196 this platform to kind of scream therapy and be loved 0:07:14.236 --> 0:07:18.556 for it is an incredible, incredible honor, you know. So 0:07:18.756 --> 0:07:21.116 it really worked, and at the time I was very angry. 0:07:21.236 --> 0:07:21.636 It worked. 0:07:21.676 --> 0:07:24.756 Yeah. Did you ever have a moment where you started 0:07:24.796 --> 0:07:26.956 to play the new music that you were making with 0:07:27.036 --> 0:07:29.516 Darren and Chavo? Did you play it for your parents 0:07:29.516 --> 0:07:31.636 and what was their reaction to your music? 0:07:32.836 --> 0:07:36.196 My parents. I was living with my parents in my twenties, 0:07:36.756 --> 0:07:40.636 and they heard every note that I've ever played on 0:07:40.756 --> 0:07:44.556 my guitar or keys and every voice every day had 0:07:44.596 --> 0:07:46.796 to deal with it. And we didn't even have a dorg, 0:07:46.876 --> 0:07:49.996 and we had a rental in North Hollywood and we 0:07:50.036 --> 0:07:51.956 had this like part of the living room that was 0:07:51.996 --> 0:07:55.996 my studio, and they heard every note from the beginning 0:07:56.036 --> 0:08:00.996 till the end, and they never complained. They always were encouraging, 0:08:01.076 --> 0:08:06.316 which is incredible. So I'm very thankful to my parents 0:08:06.716 --> 0:08:10.876 that they allowed me to space and time to do 0:08:10.956 --> 0:08:12.876 what I do and follow it. 0:08:13.236 --> 0:08:14.756 Why do you think they were so supportive. 0:08:15.756 --> 0:08:18.036 Well, they were just generally supportive of us whatever we 0:08:18.076 --> 0:08:19.636 wanted to do. So that's a part of it. It's 0:08:19.676 --> 0:08:23.716 just them. But also my dad he loved music and 0:08:23.756 --> 0:08:25.636 he was a musician and he wanted to make it 0:08:25.676 --> 0:08:27.876 in music. But his dad died when he was really young, 0:08:27.916 --> 0:08:30.236 when he was in second grade, so he wasn't able 0:08:30.276 --> 0:08:33.236 to follow his dream of music. So I think he 0:08:34.036 --> 0:08:36.956 kind of encouraged me to do so. And so you know, 0:08:38.076 --> 0:08:40.956 that made a big difference to me having their you know, 0:08:41.396 --> 0:08:44.476 understanding love and support and a lot of parents wouldn't, 0:08:44.516 --> 0:08:47.236 especially Armenian parents, I would say, you know, they do 0:08:47.396 --> 0:08:49.756 now with the successive system, I think we've opened up 0:08:49.796 --> 0:08:53.756 doors to other young Armenian and other ethnic musicians, to 0:08:53.796 --> 0:08:57.076 be honest, and that's been cool to see as well. 0:08:57.476 --> 0:08:59.556 You know, I get Uranian friends coming up to me 0:08:59.596 --> 0:09:03.516 and saying they've heard our music in Iran and it changed, 0:09:03.556 --> 0:09:05.596 you know, the way they saw things and they got 0:09:05.636 --> 0:09:08.236 into music and stuff, and I'm like, wow, that's incredible, 0:09:08.316 --> 0:09:13.956 you know, like it's just relating to people and being encouraged, 0:09:14.436 --> 0:09:16.516 you know, And I started very late. You know. I 0:09:16.516 --> 0:09:19.276 didn't pick up music a small Casio keyboard, if you 0:09:19.316 --> 0:09:21.636 can call that music, till I was nineteen and going 0:09:21.636 --> 0:09:26.436 to university. And I didn't consider my vision until I 0:09:26.436 --> 0:09:28.596 was twenty three twenty four when I had an epiphany. 0:09:29.316 --> 0:09:33.156 So I started really late. Most most people start really young. 0:09:33.196 --> 0:09:35.516 They're like, I want to do music, you know, they're eight, 0:09:35.596 --> 0:09:37.916 they're nine, they know that that's what they want to do, 0:09:38.076 --> 0:09:41.276 you know, and that's beautiful. But it wasn't me. And 0:09:41.476 --> 0:09:44.316 I'm glad and thankful for that because I had this 0:09:44.396 --> 0:09:45.996 whole world of experiences. 0:09:46.956 --> 0:09:49.956 Yeah, and in your case, you tried out several other 0:09:50.516 --> 0:09:54.036 areas of life. You started your own software company, and 0:09:54.116 --> 0:09:56.796 it seems like every step of the way you were 0:09:56.836 --> 0:10:00.756 successful at everything you tried. And it's very different things, 0:10:00.796 --> 0:10:03.716 like different fields, like drastically different fields, different parts of 0:10:03.756 --> 0:10:05.916 the brain, and you kind of like, yeah, kill you 0:10:05.916 --> 0:10:06.796 know everywhere. 0:10:06.956 --> 0:10:08.916 I wake up in the morning and I get excited 0:10:09.116 --> 0:10:12.636 about something, and it could be an art design, it 0:10:12.676 --> 0:10:15.396 could be a song, It could be an idea of 0:10:15.396 --> 0:10:18.716 a film that someone wants me to score. It could 0:10:18.756 --> 0:10:24.636 be coffee, it could be anything, and I get excited 0:10:24.636 --> 0:10:26.956 about it. When I get excited about it. What happens, 0:10:26.996 --> 0:10:31.276 I think is that I start to visualize, right, I 0:10:31.396 --> 0:10:34.356 visualize how I want to be interacting with that thing, 0:10:34.516 --> 0:10:37.556 whatever it is, and how I want to you know, 0:10:37.636 --> 0:10:39.316 I don't want to use the word success, but how 0:10:39.316 --> 0:10:41.996 I can make it go forward? And then I work. 0:10:42.236 --> 0:10:44.396 I work hard at doing so. So it's a combination 0:10:44.476 --> 0:10:47.516 of visualization and hard work, and I think you can 0:10:47.516 --> 0:10:48.956 take it to where it's meant to go. And not 0:10:48.996 --> 0:10:52.956 everything succeeds, and not every song I put out succeeds 0:10:53.076 --> 0:10:55.316 or not every project, but I put them out in 0:10:55.396 --> 0:10:57.236 knowing that that's what I want to do. So what 0:10:57.756 --> 0:10:59.836 you know, a good chef makes court on blue as 0:10:59.836 --> 0:11:01.676 well as pizza. How many people are going to eat 0:11:01.676 --> 0:11:04.036 the court on blue? That's pretty much it. 0:11:05.676 --> 0:11:08.716 After Soil so Soil, you were in Soil for a 0:11:08.756 --> 0:11:12.836 little while and then eight months one show, one show, 0:11:13.076 --> 0:11:15.836 and one system of a down was formed. Is it 0:11:15.876 --> 0:11:18.356 true that you picked that you wanted a name with 0:11:18.436 --> 0:11:21.556 an S so you'd be close to Slayer in music stores? 0:11:21.796 --> 0:11:26.516 Ooh, you know that's probably a shovel or a Darren question, 0:11:27.116 --> 0:11:29.476 because they might have said something like that in the press. 0:11:29.476 --> 0:11:32.796 I remember reading something like that. It's not something I've 0:11:32.836 --> 0:11:36.876 ever said, but it's very possible. But it comes from 0:11:37.236 --> 0:11:40.396 Darren's poem called Victims of a Down, And you know, 0:11:40.556 --> 0:11:44.596 victims just sounds negative connotation. It's not it's not something 0:11:45.076 --> 0:11:48.116 and as a people, the Armenians who have been victimized 0:11:48.156 --> 0:11:51.836 by genocide, it's not something you want to use, right, right, 0:11:52.076 --> 0:11:58.556 So Systems sounded way more integral and universal, and uh, 0:11:59.196 --> 0:12:01.996 you know, but but maybe I would think I would 0:12:02.036 --> 0:12:04.796 think that's a Darren question. I think he probably thought 0:12:04.836 --> 0:12:06.596 of that, going, oh, we'll be close to Slayer and 0:12:06.596 --> 0:12:08.956 Free Put, Like, you know, I could see. 0:12:08.756 --> 0:12:12.556 That that that's so cool. It sucks that now it's like, 0:12:13.316 --> 0:12:15.556 that's not how we consume our music anymore. So it 0:12:15.636 --> 0:12:18.356 kind of doesn't even matter because we're not in record stores, 0:12:18.436 --> 0:12:21.276 you know. Yeah, but it struck me that you had 0:12:21.356 --> 0:12:23.996 an origin story. System of a Down has a sort 0:12:23.996 --> 0:12:26.836 of similar origin story to Guns n' Roses in that 0:12:26.916 --> 0:12:30.716 you had this rehearsal space that sort of became the 0:12:30.756 --> 0:12:33.516 clubhouse and then you started having parties there. It's in 0:12:33.756 --> 0:12:36.836 la In sort of like an industrial spot, and then 0:12:36.876 --> 0:12:39.236 it just gets you know, the parties get bigger and 0:12:39.236 --> 0:12:42.396 bigger and bigger, and that's how you built your fan base. 0:12:42.516 --> 0:12:44.876 Do you remember those early parties when you would. 0:12:44.636 --> 0:12:48.116 Play, Oh yeah, very very I mean I remember them 0:12:48.156 --> 0:12:51.476 like they were yesterday. I had this one thousand square 0:12:51.476 --> 0:12:55.116 foot warehouse house renting, and I had my little software 0:12:55.156 --> 0:12:58.756 business running out of it, a little hangout space, a 0:12:58.756 --> 0:13:01.076 futon that converted into a bed in case I needed 0:13:01.076 --> 0:13:03.476 to crash there, and the rest of the space we 0:13:03.556 --> 0:13:06.196 made into the band's you know, kind of rehearsal space. 0:13:06.236 --> 0:13:08.796 So and we had a giant truck door because it's 0:13:08.796 --> 0:13:11.556 in US fuel space, right, So friends would come with 0:13:11.716 --> 0:13:14.396 kegs and open up the truck door and there was 0:13:14.476 --> 0:13:17.116 no one living around. It was pretty you know, industrial area. 0:13:17.596 --> 0:13:20.876 So we'd just rock out and you know, and more 0:13:20.916 --> 0:13:23.476 people started coming. So by the time we played our 0:13:23.476 --> 0:13:27.276 first show, the promoter wanted us to sell I think 0:13:27.316 --> 0:13:29.476 seventy five tickets or something like that, and we sold 0:13:29.476 --> 0:13:31.116 over one hundred or whatever, and they were like, what 0:13:31.116 --> 0:13:33.356 the fuck are these guys? Like, how could Basilon? You know, 0:13:33.396 --> 0:13:35.156 it's paid to play la you know. And it was 0:13:35.156 --> 0:13:37.716 at the rock Sya of all places, you know, and 0:13:37.836 --> 0:13:41.276 Chabo at the time, our basis was very instrumental in 0:13:41.876 --> 0:13:44.476 kind of hassling these promoters and calling them and trying 0:13:44.516 --> 0:13:47.356 to help, you know, manage the band and some of 0:13:47.396 --> 0:13:49.356 our things, which I'm always grateful for. 0:13:50.116 --> 0:13:52.316 So you were kind of like drinking partying back then. 0:13:52.596 --> 0:13:55.316 Did your parents, like, did they see a change in 0:13:55.396 --> 0:13:58.436 you or they kind of ever worried about you? Because 0:13:58.476 --> 0:14:01.116 this is before the band was signed, the band really 0:14:01.156 --> 0:14:04.556 took off. Were they worried about where you were going? 0:14:05.836 --> 0:14:08.756 Not really. I mean I've always been a very responsible 0:14:08.796 --> 0:14:14.516 person and so irrespective of the music and some of 0:14:14.556 --> 0:14:17.836 the party that went with it, it wasn't overdone. I 0:14:17.836 --> 0:14:20.916 would still check in on them and make sure everyone's okay, 0:14:20.956 --> 0:14:24.156 and you know, spend time there and whatnot. So it 0:14:24.196 --> 0:14:26.236 wasn't you know, and I was in my late twenties. 0:14:26.276 --> 0:14:29.916 It wasn't like I was, you know, fifteen, so you know, 0:14:30.236 --> 0:14:32.756 so the age matters, you know. I think by the 0:14:32.756 --> 0:14:35.636 time we started touring, I was thirty, you know, So 0:14:36.396 --> 0:14:37.996 you know, it makes a difference. 0:14:38.036 --> 0:14:40.516 But also maybe better too, because you already had life 0:14:40.516 --> 0:14:43.196 experience and you knew how to sort of handle yourself, 0:14:43.236 --> 0:14:46.436 which is probably very important when you're around all that. 0:14:46.636 --> 0:14:48.836 Leah I remember the first time someone came at a 0:14:48.876 --> 0:14:51.196 club and goes, oh my god, you guys are the 0:14:51.236 --> 0:14:54.756 most incredible, amazing thing, and I just looked at them, 0:14:54.876 --> 0:14:57.836 like and in my mind, I'm like, wow, this industry 0:14:57.916 --> 0:15:02.076 is quite different. There's a lot of like puff, like 0:15:02.156 --> 0:15:04.116 there's a lot of bullshit, you know, and I'm like, 0:15:04.636 --> 0:15:08.036 very interesting. I'm like, oh, thank you so much, you know, like. 0:15:08.556 --> 0:15:10.276 You know what I mean, like you just because I've 0:15:10.276 --> 0:15:13.396 been in many industries jewelry industries, shoe industry, software industry 0:15:13.436 --> 0:15:16.356 and stuff, and I'm like, I mean, I know we 0:15:16.476 --> 0:15:19.276 do something unique, but like I know that's not you know. 0:15:19.356 --> 0:15:22.196 I'm glad you feel that way. But there's a lot 0:15:22.236 --> 0:15:24.916 of that bullshit in this industry. Like industry people would 0:15:24.956 --> 0:15:27.356 come up and just blow smoke up your ass, and 0:15:27.796 --> 0:15:29.596 that was a common thing, and I would just look 0:15:29.596 --> 0:15:32.036 at them and go like, I mean, I'm not buying this. 0:15:32.676 --> 0:15:35.196 Did you ever let yourself indulge in that at all? 0:15:35.396 --> 0:15:37.996 Like one system really started to blow up. Did you 0:15:38.076 --> 0:15:41.396 ever just sort of like roll with the ego and 0:15:42.356 --> 0:15:44.396 give into that a little bit just to have sort 0:15:44.436 --> 0:15:45.716 of the rock star experience. 0:15:45.956 --> 0:15:47.956 I think it's import I would say it would be 0:15:47.956 --> 0:15:51.476 impossible for our egos not to have been affected over 0:15:51.516 --> 0:15:54.276 the long run. With system success and everything that we've garnered. 0:15:54.756 --> 0:15:57.356 I think we've all our egos all played a part 0:15:57.436 --> 0:16:00.996 in our creation and disaster all at the same time. 0:16:01.596 --> 0:16:04.356 So I will you know, I won't deny that, But 0:16:05.036 --> 0:16:08.356 I always saw through a lot of stuff with this 0:16:08.436 --> 0:16:11.196 industry begin industry side, not so much fans fans. I 0:16:11.196 --> 0:16:14.316 mean it's incredible, you know, like I'm incredibly grateful every 0:16:14.356 --> 0:16:16.516 time we play a show, every time we get a response, 0:16:16.796 --> 0:16:19.956 I mean, even inviting people to the cafe or whatever 0:16:19.956 --> 0:16:22.436 and people show up or book signing, you know, from 0:16:22.436 --> 0:16:25.196 my book or whatever. It's just I'm always at awe 0:16:25.516 --> 0:16:30.516 that these people that I don't know personally come to 0:16:30.556 --> 0:16:33.956 spend a little time with me, and it's incredible. Like 0:16:34.196 --> 0:16:36.476 I'm always taken back by it because I don't take 0:16:36.476 --> 0:16:40.556 it for granted. But the industry side, I've always kind 0:16:40.596 --> 0:16:42.396 of looked through and been like, Okay, this is a 0:16:42.436 --> 0:16:45.356 business like any other, you know, especially when people started 0:16:45.396 --> 0:16:50.596 using the word baby, you know, come on, baby, like whoa, that's. 0:16:50.516 --> 0:16:53.516 Nice, Like agents and stuff like that. 0:16:54.076 --> 0:16:57.796 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just the cheesier aspect you know, 0:16:57.876 --> 0:17:01.436 I'm like, wow, this is interesting. I would just look 0:17:01.476 --> 0:17:04.596 at them as non you know, fictional characters going might 0:17:04.636 --> 0:17:05.636 write about you. 0:17:05.636 --> 0:17:09.396 You know, I wanted to ask you. I was on 0:17:09.516 --> 0:17:11.916 the system of a down Reddit page last night and 0:17:11.956 --> 0:17:13.916 I just wanted to ask you a couple of questions 0:17:13.956 --> 0:17:16.756 that yeah, sure that people threw up there because they 0:17:16.756 --> 0:17:20.076 were kind of cool of okay, okay. One of them is, 0:17:20.316 --> 0:17:23.836 what's the saddest, most heartbreaking song in the entire system 0:17:23.876 --> 0:17:25.116 of a down discography? 0:17:25.676 --> 0:17:28.436 Soldier's Side. I would say that's one of the saddest 0:17:28.436 --> 0:17:30.516 When I sing that, I want to cry every time. 0:17:30.796 --> 0:17:33.036 And that's a Darren Darren write that. 0:17:33.956 --> 0:17:36.316 Darren wrote the majority of Yeah, the music. I may 0:17:36.316 --> 0:17:39.756 have written some of it, but yeah, it's just to me. 0:17:39.876 --> 0:17:44.676 It's the vocals are so haunting. The messaging is so powerful, 0:17:44.956 --> 0:17:48.396 and you can relate no matter who you think of 0:17:48.476 --> 0:17:52.516 those soldiers might be, whether they're American soldiers or Armenian soldiers, 0:17:52.596 --> 0:17:55.996 or you know someone that's protecting you, or someone that's 0:17:56.076 --> 0:17:59.716 dying for you, someone that you're waiting for them to 0:17:59.756 --> 0:18:03.516 come home. You know, a mother's or a father's kind 0:18:03.556 --> 0:18:09.756 of whoe. It is so so powerful and deep as 0:18:09.756 --> 0:18:12.476 far as a cut, you know, it always gets me. 0:18:13.556 --> 0:18:15.636 Where do you place that in the set list knowing 0:18:15.636 --> 0:18:18.636 that it's going to be a really emotional performance for you. 0:18:19.316 --> 0:18:22.276 It's not always on the set depends, like we do 0:18:22.316 --> 0:18:24.436 different set lists, so it's not always on the set, 0:18:24.476 --> 0:18:27.596 but if it is, it's usually not in the beginning. 0:18:27.596 --> 0:18:29.316 It's usually a little towards the end. 0:18:29.876 --> 0:18:32.516 Yeah, I thought this was interesting. So back to those 0:18:32.676 --> 0:18:36.156 party days when you were at the rehearsal space. You 0:18:36.196 --> 0:18:38.476 guys used to play a lot of cover songs at 0:18:38.476 --> 0:18:40.076 those parties. What songs would you cover? 0:18:40.996 --> 0:18:45.436 We did Metro by Berlin, I remember we released that. 0:18:46.076 --> 0:18:50.236 At one point. Darren liked to cover Sultons of Swing 0:18:50.916 --> 0:18:55.316 by Dire Streets, Dire Straits, thank You. I remember doing 0:18:55.316 --> 0:18:59.436 a Madonna cover, even maybe la Isla Bonita. They always 0:18:59.476 --> 0:19:01.796 would pick female covers for me just to mess with me, 0:19:01.876 --> 0:19:05.556 which was cool because I actually was more influenced by 0:19:05.556 --> 0:19:09.116 female vocalists than male vocalists. Anyway. Oh really like Yeah, 0:19:09.756 --> 0:19:13.956 Ceesaria Aevora is one you know, I just I love 0:19:14.516 --> 0:19:18.316 fado and I love her singing. I learned from her 0:19:18.596 --> 0:19:21.716 just watching and listening to her. I never matter how 0:19:21.836 --> 0:19:26.396 effortless singing should be. Singing should not be forced. It 0:19:26.436 --> 0:19:28.996 should You should open your mouth and it should come out. 0:19:29.036 --> 0:19:31.196 It should be that effortless no matter what you're singing, 0:19:31.596 --> 0:19:34.676 if you're doing it right. You know, different singers like 0:19:35.356 --> 0:19:39.796 Nina Simon and I Love you know, yeah, sultry singing. 0:19:39.836 --> 0:19:42.436 You know, do you sing a lot in life? In general? 0:19:42.476 --> 0:19:44.076 Do you walk around and hum? 0:19:44.676 --> 0:19:44.836 No? 0:19:45.516 --> 0:19:48.716 Do you you don't vocalize a lot? No? Just in life? 0:19:49.236 --> 0:19:51.676 Yeah, yeah, I just you know. It's it's kind of 0:19:51.676 --> 0:19:56.876 funny because because singing became part of my profession, when 0:19:57.196 --> 0:19:59.876 I stopped doing it so much, I just don't do 0:19:59.956 --> 0:20:02.836 it until I have to in a way. I mean, 0:20:02.876 --> 0:20:05.636 if I'm writing a song, I'm singing, if I'm you know, 0:20:05.956 --> 0:20:10.356 But mostly I'm either painting or I'm composing for media, 0:20:11.036 --> 0:20:13.876 and so I'm not really using my voice. I did 0:20:13.916 --> 0:20:16.636 try this cool thing where I can compose with my voice, 0:20:16.636 --> 0:20:20.076 which is very interesting. It converts your audio to MIDI 0:20:20.556 --> 0:20:24.996 as you're singing through it. So I wrote a vocal 0:20:25.036 --> 0:20:29.756 suite using a few of those kind of techniques and 0:20:29.836 --> 0:20:31.756 we put We did a live show of it last 0:20:31.836 --> 0:20:35.116 year called Invocations, which we did at this Soriad Theater 0:20:35.196 --> 0:20:37.916 here in Los Angeles, and we put it out as 0:20:37.996 --> 0:20:40.036 I mixed it as a record, live record with like 0:20:40.356 --> 0:20:44.156 these incredible voices, five soloists, a full choir, and an orchestra. 0:20:44.676 --> 0:20:45.276 Oh wow. 0:20:45.716 --> 0:20:49.916 Yeah. So I use my voice almost like a writing 0:20:49.996 --> 0:20:54.636 tool in that sense for a choir and whatnot. But yeah, 0:20:54.636 --> 0:20:58.036 I don't generally sing. I do sing to my kid. 0:20:58.236 --> 0:21:00.236 I have sung for my kids since he was young. 0:21:00.276 --> 0:21:02.756 They say it's really great to do so, even if 0:21:02.796 --> 0:21:06.716 you're a bad singer, because that's your voice. You know, 0:21:07.196 --> 0:21:09.476