1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:15,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:20,356 --> 00:00:23,796 Speaker 2: Serge Tonkien made his debut as the idiosyncratic lead singer 3 00:00:23,836 --> 00:00:26,476 Speaker 2: of the late nineties metal band System of a Down. 4 00:00:27,156 --> 00:00:30,156 Speaker 2: After releasing five platinum selling albums with the band and 5 00:00:30,276 --> 00:00:33,956 Speaker 2: establishing himself as one of modern day music's most outspoken 6 00:00:34,076 --> 00:00:37,476 Speaker 2: human rights activists, in two thousand and seven, Serge Tonkien 7 00:00:37,636 --> 00:00:40,396 Speaker 2: left System of a Down to pursue his own endeavors. 8 00:00:41,116 --> 00:00:45,556 Speaker 2: Since then, he's released solo albums, composed symphonies, scored documentaries, 9 00:00:45,956 --> 00:00:49,236 Speaker 2: and most recently started producing a line of Armenian coffee 10 00:00:49,316 --> 00:00:52,836 Speaker 2: with a shop in Los Angeles. In May, Surge also 11 00:00:52,876 --> 00:00:55,956 Speaker 2: released a memoir called Down with the System that details 12 00:00:55,956 --> 00:00:58,876 Speaker 2: his personal story that starts in Beirut before his family 13 00:00:58,916 --> 00:01:01,476 Speaker 2: immigrated to La during the Lebanese Civil War in the 14 00:01:01,556 --> 00:01:05,836 Speaker 2: nineteen seventies. Serge's memoir also details his family's history in 15 00:01:05,916 --> 00:01:09,116 Speaker 2: Armenia and their chilling plight during the genocide of Night 16 00:01:09,116 --> 00:01:13,236 Speaker 2: eighteen fifteen. On today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Surge 17 00:01:13,276 --> 00:01:16,476 Speaker 2: Tonkien about why he always felt like an outsider, including 18 00:01:16,516 --> 00:01:19,756 Speaker 2: inside a System of Down. He also explains why it 19 00:01:19,796 --> 00:01:22,596 Speaker 2: was so essential for him to exercises demons on stage 20 00:01:22,996 --> 00:01:25,396 Speaker 2: and the one fundamental change that needs to take place 21 00:01:25,476 --> 00:01:30,516 Speaker 2: in order for him to record new music with his band. 22 00:01:30,836 --> 00:01:34,076 Speaker 2: This is broken record liner notes for the digital age. 23 00:01:34,236 --> 00:01:39,476 Speaker 2: I'm justin Mitchman. Here's Leo Rose's conversation with Serge Tonkien. 24 00:01:40,276 --> 00:01:43,436 Speaker 3: When you and Darren first started playing together. When you're 25 00:01:43,916 --> 00:01:47,596 Speaker 3: in the band Soil, how did you settle on a sound? 26 00:01:47,676 --> 00:01:49,516 Speaker 3: Did you know it was going to be sort of 27 00:01:49,556 --> 00:01:52,596 Speaker 3: like a progressive metal sound or was there ever talk 28 00:01:52,796 --> 00:01:55,116 Speaker 3: of a different sort of direction or was that just 29 00:01:55,156 --> 00:01:56,036 Speaker 3: sort of understood. 30 00:01:56,676 --> 00:01:59,316 Speaker 1: I love how you asked that question, as if any 31 00:01:59,356 --> 00:02:03,116 Speaker 1: band gets together and sits down ahead of time and goes, 32 00:02:03,356 --> 00:02:05,356 Speaker 1: what is a sound that we're going to make? It's 33 00:02:05,396 --> 00:02:07,836 Speaker 1: not like that at all. Someone just starts playing something 34 00:02:07,836 --> 00:02:10,036 Speaker 1: and someone else does something still but over, and then 35 00:02:10,036 --> 00:02:13,116 Speaker 1: you have a sound. You know, it's so intuitive and 36 00:02:13,316 --> 00:02:15,436 Speaker 1: so non logical. 37 00:02:15,716 --> 00:02:17,236 Speaker 3: You're not like, oh, we want to be a yacht 38 00:02:17,356 --> 00:02:17,996 Speaker 3: rock band. 39 00:02:18,476 --> 00:02:20,956 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's bands that do that, 40 00:02:21,236 --> 00:02:24,356 Speaker 1: you know, that that think it through. But I don't 41 00:02:24,436 --> 00:02:28,076 Speaker 1: think as a new band, you know. I mean, if 42 00:02:28,076 --> 00:02:31,196 Speaker 1: you're an established musician getting together with other established musicians 43 00:02:31,596 --> 00:02:34,396 Speaker 1: knowing what you want to create, that's one thing. But 44 00:02:34,476 --> 00:02:37,916 Speaker 1: we were all like kids getting together making noise. You know, 45 00:02:37,996 --> 00:02:40,956 Speaker 1: it's there's no cerebral process to that. 46 00:02:41,516 --> 00:02:44,076 Speaker 3: You weren't really like a metal guy though, right like 47 00:02:44,676 --> 00:02:46,236 Speaker 3: Darren was more of a metal head. 48 00:02:46,516 --> 00:02:51,276 Speaker 1: Darren Nshable. Both both are huge metal metal heads and 49 00:02:51,276 --> 00:02:53,596 Speaker 1: and I wasn't no I was. You know, my influence 50 00:02:53,636 --> 00:02:57,356 Speaker 1: has come from all over the place, you know, all 51 00:02:57,436 --> 00:02:59,956 Speaker 1: different types of music, but not that I didn't listen 52 00:02:59,956 --> 00:03:01,916 Speaker 1: to rock. My brother was a huge metal fan, so 53 00:03:01,916 --> 00:03:04,356 Speaker 1: I would listen to rock and metal with him at 54 00:03:04,356 --> 00:03:07,716 Speaker 1: home because he was a huge fan. But it wasn't 55 00:03:07,756 --> 00:03:09,756 Speaker 1: my first sound that I was in introduced to. So 56 00:03:10,036 --> 00:03:12,716 Speaker 1: you know, I'm a stranger in every aspect of my 57 00:03:12,876 --> 00:03:17,556 Speaker 1: life politically, musically, it's always from the left, like coming 58 00:03:17,596 --> 00:03:21,556 Speaker 1: into these arenas that I'm an outsider in every way, 59 00:03:22,036 --> 00:03:25,196 Speaker 1: and it's okay because I was able to bring something 60 00:03:25,236 --> 00:03:27,876 Speaker 1: to the table because of it, you know, because I 61 00:03:27,916 --> 00:03:31,196 Speaker 1: didn't have the same influences. And even when I screamed, 62 00:03:31,676 --> 00:03:34,276 Speaker 1: I tried to sing, and my melodies were different, my 63 00:03:34,316 --> 00:03:39,676 Speaker 1: words were different, and you know, as a lyricist, I 64 00:03:39,676 --> 00:03:42,196 Speaker 1: didn't know that I can't squeeze a thousand words in 65 00:03:42,236 --> 00:03:45,076 Speaker 1: a second. Nobody told me, you know, so I tried. 66 00:03:45,316 --> 00:03:48,876 Speaker 1: You know, the words were important, So I tried. If 67 00:03:48,876 --> 00:03:50,356 Speaker 1: it means I have to go one hundred miles an 68 00:03:50,356 --> 00:03:52,436 Speaker 1: hour with my worst and so be it, because I 69 00:03:52,476 --> 00:03:54,756 Speaker 1: need to say that essay or whatever, I need to 70 00:03:54,836 --> 00:03:57,396 Speaker 1: make that statement, kind of like the prison song you 71 00:03:57,436 --> 00:04:01,196 Speaker 1: know You're actually it's a small treatise with a chorus 72 00:04:01,236 --> 00:04:04,436 Speaker 1: that you're just bam, it's all there, you know. But 73 00:04:04,556 --> 00:04:06,876 Speaker 1: it worked. It worked because it's different. 74 00:04:07,076 --> 00:04:09,116 Speaker 3: Because you were in a band with guys who were 75 00:04:09,196 --> 00:04:13,476 Speaker 3: sort of like metal purists. Did they question your style, 76 00:04:13,556 --> 00:04:16,516 Speaker 3: your lyrical style, or were they just kind of cool 77 00:04:16,516 --> 00:04:18,276 Speaker 3: with it where they're like, no, dude, Like people in 78 00:04:18,316 --> 00:04:19,836 Speaker 3: the community are not gonna like this. 79 00:04:20,716 --> 00:04:23,276 Speaker 1: For me, Metal, if it gets too hard, it gets 80 00:04:23,316 --> 00:04:26,116 Speaker 1: so funny to me. It's kind of like horror movies, right, 81 00:04:26,156 --> 00:04:28,516 Speaker 1: if it gets too crazy, it's so over the top. 82 00:04:28,556 --> 00:04:31,276 Speaker 1: I start laughing with horror movies, and the same with metal. 83 00:04:31,316 --> 00:04:34,276 Speaker 1: If it gets too crazy, it becomes funny to me. 84 00:04:34,356 --> 00:04:36,876 Speaker 1: So I remember one time when we wrote the song Bounce. 85 00:04:37,476 --> 00:04:40,356 Speaker 1: Before Bounce, the lyrics were completely different. I wanted to 86 00:04:40,356 --> 00:04:44,356 Speaker 1: write a very heavy metal song about pajamas, silk pajamas, 87 00:04:44,676 --> 00:04:47,476 Speaker 1: you know, which is totally that I askue, right, like 88 00:04:47,716 --> 00:04:50,836 Speaker 1: something Zappa would do, But that was for me. I 89 00:04:50,876 --> 00:04:52,756 Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, could you imagine writing a 90 00:04:52,796 --> 00:04:55,636 Speaker 1: really heavy song about pajamas like the Dalai Lama's pajamas 91 00:04:55,676 --> 00:04:58,756 Speaker 1: and Elton John's pajamas and you just keep on going 92 00:04:59,036 --> 00:05:01,636 Speaker 1: and it becomes this funny thing and they both look 93 00:05:01,676 --> 00:05:04,556 Speaker 1: at me, like with scorn, and they're like, no, bro, 94 00:05:05,036 --> 00:05:07,116 Speaker 1: you're not going to make us look like that, you know, 95 00:05:07,236 --> 00:05:09,116 Speaker 1: like that kind of a thing. So there was always 96 00:05:09,236 --> 00:05:13,756 Speaker 1: this attitude don't fuck with the metal, So yeah, you know, 97 00:05:13,876 --> 00:05:17,876 Speaker 1: but I fucked with it enough, you know, definitely. 98 00:05:18,676 --> 00:05:20,956 Speaker 3: So did you always feel like an outsider the whole 99 00:05:20,956 --> 00:05:23,316 Speaker 3: time in the band or did you start to sort 100 00:05:23,316 --> 00:05:26,396 Speaker 3: of like understand the ways of the metal world where 101 00:05:26,396 --> 00:05:27,556 Speaker 3: you could blend in. 102 00:05:28,476 --> 00:05:31,516 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, we toured opening for Slayer 103 00:05:31,636 --> 00:05:34,036 Speaker 1: for a year, you know, so you do blend and 104 00:05:34,036 --> 00:05:36,836 Speaker 1: you learn the lessons. It was like Luke Kent for us. 105 00:05:36,916 --> 00:05:40,076 Speaker 1: You know, you have these really hardcore fans that you know, 106 00:05:40,156 --> 00:05:42,476 Speaker 1: would use a knife to make a tattoo in their 107 00:05:42,556 --> 00:05:44,756 Speaker 1: arm of Slayer and stuff going like this to you, 108 00:05:44,796 --> 00:05:47,196 Speaker 1: and you've got to nod, how to duck and cover 109 00:05:47,276 --> 00:05:50,156 Speaker 1: and yell and scream and use use your authority and 110 00:05:50,236 --> 00:05:52,356 Speaker 1: learn how to control an audience and all of that stuff. 111 00:05:52,596 --> 00:05:55,836 Speaker 1: It was more performance art. Really well, I do love metal, 112 00:05:55,876 --> 00:05:58,036 Speaker 1: don't get me wrong. I love rock. I love metal, 113 00:05:58,356 --> 00:06:00,836 Speaker 1: but I don't necessarily love it over other types of music. 114 00:06:01,196 --> 00:06:02,916 Speaker 1: I love other types of music as well. 115 00:06:03,556 --> 00:06:05,556 Speaker 3: You just seem like such a chill guy, like you 116 00:06:05,596 --> 00:06:07,996 Speaker 3: don't seem inherently metal. 117 00:06:08,036 --> 00:06:11,796 Speaker 1: But people always so, you know, like when I'm on stage, 118 00:06:11,836 --> 00:06:13,916 Speaker 1: they're like, you're crazy on stage, but in person, you're 119 00:06:13,956 --> 00:06:16,556 Speaker 1: so senssible, and I'm like, well, the music's heavy. If 120 00:06:16,596 --> 00:06:18,596 Speaker 1: you were playing jazz on stage, I wouldn't be screaming, 121 00:06:18,836 --> 00:06:21,156 Speaker 1: believe me, you know. So it just you give the 122 00:06:21,236 --> 00:06:24,316 Speaker 1: music what it needs as a performer, right, and that's it. 123 00:06:24,996 --> 00:06:28,556 Speaker 3: Early on, was it a way for you to process 124 00:06:29,556 --> 00:06:32,196 Speaker 3: different emotions and things you were going through and just 125 00:06:32,316 --> 00:06:36,236 Speaker 3: personal frustrations and as a young man, was it a 126 00:06:36,236 --> 00:06:37,676 Speaker 3: way for you to channel aggression? 127 00:06:38,596 --> 00:06:42,196 Speaker 1: Absolutely, it was a gift, you know, being able to 128 00:06:42,316 --> 00:06:46,876 Speaker 1: use music to exercise my demons and my anger and 129 00:06:46,916 --> 00:06:49,236 Speaker 1: my frustrations with what was going on in my life 130 00:06:49,236 --> 00:06:51,076 Speaker 1: at the time. Was a gift. I think had I 131 00:06:51,156 --> 00:06:54,316 Speaker 1: started with pop music, I may have ended up killing someone. 132 00:06:54,876 --> 00:06:58,396 Speaker 1: I'm just kidding, but you know, pop musicians usually are 133 00:06:58,396 --> 00:07:02,916 Speaker 1: not happy people. They exercise all their positivity and end 134 00:07:02,996 --> 00:07:07,156 Speaker 1: up negative sometimes. But yeah, I think, you know, having 135 00:07:07,516 --> 00:07:14,196 Speaker 1: this platform to kind of scream therapy and be loved 136 00:07:14,236 --> 00:07:18,556 Speaker 1: for it is an incredible, incredible honor, you know. So 137 00:07:18,756 --> 00:07:21,116 Speaker 1: it really worked, and at the time I was very angry. 138 00:07:21,236 --> 00:07:21,636 Speaker 1: It worked. 139 00:07:21,676 --> 00:07:24,756 Speaker 3: Yeah. Did you ever have a moment where you started 140 00:07:24,796 --> 00:07:26,956 Speaker 3: to play the new music that you were making with 141 00:07:27,036 --> 00:07:29,516 Speaker 3: Darren and Chavo? Did you play it for your parents 142 00:07:29,516 --> 00:07:31,636 Speaker 3: and what was their reaction to your music? 143 00:07:32,836 --> 00:07:36,196 Speaker 1: My parents. I was living with my parents in my twenties, 144 00:07:36,756 --> 00:07:40,636 Speaker 1: and they heard every note that I've ever played on 145 00:07:40,756 --> 00:07:44,556 Speaker 1: my guitar or keys and every voice every day had 146 00:07:44,596 --> 00:07:46,796 Speaker 1: to deal with it. And we didn't even have a dorg, 147 00:07:46,876 --> 00:07:49,996 Speaker 1: and we had a rental in North Hollywood and we 148 00:07:50,036 --> 00:07:51,956 Speaker 1: had this like part of the living room that was 149 00:07:51,996 --> 00:07:55,996 Speaker 1: my studio, and they heard every note from the beginning 150 00:07:56,036 --> 00:08:00,996 Speaker 1: till the end, and they never complained. They always were encouraging, 151 00:08:01,076 --> 00:08:06,316 Speaker 1: which is incredible. So I'm very thankful to my parents 152 00:08:06,716 --> 00:08:10,876 Speaker 1: that they allowed me to space and time to do 153 00:08:10,956 --> 00:08:12,876 Speaker 1: what I do and follow it. 154 00:08:13,236 --> 00:08:14,756 Speaker 3: Why do you think they were so supportive. 155 00:08:15,756 --> 00:08:18,036 Speaker 1: Well, they were just generally supportive of us whatever we 156 00:08:18,076 --> 00:08:19,636 Speaker 1: wanted to do. So that's a part of it. It's 157 00:08:19,676 --> 00:08:23,716 Speaker 1: just them. But also my dad he loved music and 158 00:08:23,756 --> 00:08:25,636 Speaker 1: he was a musician and he wanted to make it 159 00:08:25,676 --> 00:08:27,876 Speaker 1: in music. But his dad died when he was really young, 160 00:08:27,916 --> 00:08:30,236 Speaker 1: when he was in second grade, so he wasn't able 161 00:08:30,276 --> 00:08:33,236 Speaker 1: to follow his dream of music. So I think he 162 00:08:34,036 --> 00:08:36,956 Speaker 1: kind of encouraged me to do so. And so you know, 163 00:08:38,076 --> 00:08:40,956 Speaker 1: that made a big difference to me having their you know, 164 00:08:41,396 --> 00:08:44,476 Speaker 1: understanding love and support and a lot of parents wouldn't, 165 00:08:44,516 --> 00:08:47,236 Speaker 1: especially Armenian parents, I would say, you know, they do 166 00:08:47,396 --> 00:08:49,756 Speaker 1: now with the successive system, I think we've opened up 167 00:08:49,796 --> 00:08:53,756 Speaker 1: doors to other young Armenian and other ethnic musicians, to 168 00:08:53,796 --> 00:08:57,076 Speaker 1: be honest, and that's been cool to see as well. 169 00:08:57,476 --> 00:08:59,556 Speaker 1: You know, I get Uranian friends coming up to me 170 00:08:59,596 --> 00:09:03,516 Speaker 1: and saying they've heard our music in Iran and it changed, 171 00:09:03,556 --> 00:09:05,596 Speaker 1: you know, the way they saw things and they got 172 00:09:05,636 --> 00:09:08,236 Speaker 1: into music and stuff, and I'm like, wow, that's incredible, 173 00:09:08,316 --> 00:09:13,956 Speaker 1: you know, like it's just relating to people and being encouraged, 174 00:09:14,436 --> 00:09:16,516 Speaker 1: you know, And I started very late. You know. I 175 00:09:16,516 --> 00:09:19,276 Speaker 1: didn't pick up music a small Casio keyboard, if you 176 00:09:19,316 --> 00:09:21,636 Speaker 1: can call that music, till I was nineteen and going 177 00:09:21,636 --> 00:09:26,436 Speaker 1: to university. And I didn't consider my vision until I 178 00:09:26,436 --> 00:09:28,596 Speaker 1: was twenty three twenty four when I had an epiphany. 179 00:09:29,316 --> 00:09:33,156 Speaker 1: So I started really late. Most most people start really young. 180 00:09:33,196 --> 00:09:35,516 Speaker 1: They're like, I want to do music, you know, they're eight, 181 00:09:35,596 --> 00:09:37,916 Speaker 1: they're nine, they know that that's what they want to do, 182 00:09:38,076 --> 00:09:41,276 Speaker 1: you know, and that's beautiful. But it wasn't me. And 183 00:09:41,476 --> 00:09:44,316 Speaker 1: I'm glad and thankful for that because I had this 184 00:09:44,396 --> 00:09:45,996 Speaker 1: whole world of experiences. 185 00:09:46,956 --> 00:09:49,956 Speaker 3: Yeah, and in your case, you tried out several other 186 00:09:50,516 --> 00:09:54,036 Speaker 3: areas of life. You started your own software company, and 187 00:09:54,116 --> 00:09:56,796 Speaker 3: it seems like every step of the way you were 188 00:09:56,836 --> 00:10:00,756 Speaker 3: successful at everything you tried. And it's very different things, 189 00:10:00,796 --> 00:10:03,716 Speaker 3: like different fields, like drastically different fields, different parts of 190 00:10:03,756 --> 00:10:05,916 Speaker 3: the brain, and you kind of like, yeah, kill you 191 00:10:05,916 --> 00:10:06,796 Speaker 3: know everywhere. 192 00:10:06,956 --> 00:10:08,916 Speaker 1: I wake up in the morning and I get excited 193 00:10:09,116 --> 00:10:12,636 Speaker 1: about something, and it could be an art design, it 194 00:10:12,676 --> 00:10:15,396 Speaker 1: could be a song, It could be an idea of 195 00:10:15,396 --> 00:10:18,716 Speaker 1: a film that someone wants me to score. It could 196 00:10:18,756 --> 00:10:24,636 Speaker 1: be coffee, it could be anything, and I get excited 197 00:10:24,636 --> 00:10:26,956 Speaker 1: about it. When I get excited about it. What happens, 198 00:10:26,996 --> 00:10:31,276 Speaker 1: I think is that I start to visualize, right, I 199 00:10:31,396 --> 00:10:34,356 Speaker 1: visualize how I want to be interacting with that thing, 200 00:10:34,516 --> 00:10:37,556 Speaker 1: whatever it is, and how I want to you know, 201 00:10:37,636 --> 00:10:39,316 Speaker 1: I don't want to use the word success, but how 202 00:10:39,316 --> 00:10:41,996 Speaker 1: I can make it go forward? And then I work. 203 00:10:42,236 --> 00:10:44,396 Speaker 1: I work hard at doing so. So it's a combination 204 00:10:44,476 --> 00:10:47,516 Speaker 1: of visualization and hard work, and I think you can 205 00:10:47,516 --> 00:10:48,956 Speaker 1: take it to where it's meant to go. And not 206 00:10:48,996 --> 00:10:52,956 Speaker 1: everything succeeds, and not every song I put out succeeds 207 00:10:53,076 --> 00:10:55,316 Speaker 1: or not every project, but I put them out in 208 00:10:55,396 --> 00:10:57,236 Speaker 1: knowing that that's what I want to do. So what 209 00:10:57,756 --> 00:10:59,836 Speaker 1: you know, a good chef makes court on blue as 210 00:10:59,836 --> 00:11:01,676 Speaker 1: well as pizza. How many people are going to eat 211 00:11:01,676 --> 00:11:04,036 Speaker 1: the court on blue? That's pretty much it. 212 00:11:05,676 --> 00:11:08,716 Speaker 3: After Soil so Soil, you were in Soil for a 213 00:11:08,756 --> 00:11:12,836 Speaker 3: little while and then eight months one show, one show, 214 00:11:13,076 --> 00:11:15,836 Speaker 3: and one system of a down was formed. Is it 215 00:11:15,876 --> 00:11:18,356 Speaker 3: true that you picked that you wanted a name with 216 00:11:18,436 --> 00:11:21,556 Speaker 3: an S so you'd be close to Slayer in music stores? 217 00:11:21,796 --> 00:11:26,516 Speaker 1: Ooh, you know that's probably a shovel or a Darren question, 218 00:11:27,116 --> 00:11:29,476 Speaker 1: because they might have said something like that in the press. 219 00:11:29,476 --> 00:11:32,796 Speaker 1: I remember reading something like that. It's not something I've 220 00:11:32,836 --> 00:11:36,876 Speaker 1: ever said, but it's very possible. But it comes from 221 00:11:37,236 --> 00:11:40,396 Speaker 1: Darren's poem called Victims of a Down, And you know, 222 00:11:40,556 --> 00:11:44,596 Speaker 1: victims just sounds negative connotation. It's not it's not something 223 00:11:45,076 --> 00:11:48,116 Speaker 1: and as a people, the Armenians who have been victimized 224 00:11:48,156 --> 00:11:51,836 Speaker 1: by genocide, it's not something you want to use, right, right, 225 00:11:52,076 --> 00:11:58,556 Speaker 1: So Systems sounded way more integral and universal, and uh, 226 00:11:59,196 --> 00:12:01,996 Speaker 1: you know, but but maybe I would think I would 227 00:12:02,036 --> 00:12:04,796 Speaker 1: think that's a Darren question. I think he probably thought 228 00:12:04,836 --> 00:12:06,596 Speaker 1: of that, going, oh, we'll be close to Slayer and 229 00:12:06,596 --> 00:12:08,956 Speaker 1: Free Put, Like, you know, I could see. 230 00:12:08,756 --> 00:12:12,556 Speaker 3: That that that's so cool. It sucks that now it's like, 231 00:12:13,316 --> 00:12:15,556 Speaker 3: that's not how we consume our music anymore. So it 232 00:12:15,636 --> 00:12:18,356 Speaker 3: kind of doesn't even matter because we're not in record stores, 233 00:12:18,436 --> 00:12:21,276 Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, but it struck me that you had 234 00:12:21,356 --> 00:12:23,996 Speaker 3: an origin story. System of a Down has a sort 235 00:12:23,996 --> 00:12:26,836 Speaker 3: of similar origin story to Guns n' Roses in that 236 00:12:26,916 --> 00:12:30,716 Speaker 3: you had this rehearsal space that sort of became the 237 00:12:30,756 --> 00:12:33,516 Speaker 3: clubhouse and then you started having parties there. It's in 238 00:12:33,756 --> 00:12:36,836 Speaker 3: la In sort of like an industrial spot, and then 239 00:12:36,876 --> 00:12:39,236 Speaker 3: it just gets you know, the parties get bigger and 240 00:12:39,236 --> 00:12:42,396 Speaker 3: bigger and bigger, and that's how you built your fan base. 241 00:12:42,516 --> 00:12:44,876 Speaker 3: Do you remember those early parties when you would. 242 00:12:44,636 --> 00:12:48,116 Speaker 1: Play, Oh yeah, very very I mean I remember them 243 00:12:48,156 --> 00:12:51,476 Speaker 1: like they were yesterday. I had this one thousand square 244 00:12:51,476 --> 00:12:55,116 Speaker 1: foot warehouse house renting, and I had my little software 245 00:12:55,156 --> 00:12:58,756 Speaker 1: business running out of it, a little hangout space, a 246 00:12:58,756 --> 00:13:01,076 Speaker 1: futon that converted into a bed in case I needed 247 00:13:01,076 --> 00:13:03,476 Speaker 1: to crash there, and the rest of the space we 248 00:13:03,556 --> 00:13:06,196 Speaker 1: made into the band's you know, kind of rehearsal space. 249 00:13:06,236 --> 00:13:08,796 Speaker 1: So and we had a giant truck door because it's 250 00:13:08,796 --> 00:13:11,556 Speaker 1: in US fuel space, right, So friends would come with 251 00:13:11,716 --> 00:13:14,396 Speaker 1: kegs and open up the truck door and there was 252 00:13:14,476 --> 00:13:17,116 Speaker 1: no one living around. It was pretty you know, industrial area. 253 00:13:17,596 --> 00:13:20,876 Speaker 1: So we'd just rock out and you know, and more 254 00:13:20,916 --> 00:13:23,476 Speaker 1: people started coming. So by the time we played our 255 00:13:23,476 --> 00:13:27,276 Speaker 1: first show, the promoter wanted us to sell I think 256 00:13:27,316 --> 00:13:29,476 Speaker 1: seventy five tickets or something like that, and we sold 257 00:13:29,476 --> 00:13:31,116 Speaker 1: over one hundred or whatever, and they were like, what 258 00:13:31,116 --> 00:13:33,356 Speaker 1: the fuck are these guys? Like, how could Basilon? You know, 259 00:13:33,396 --> 00:13:35,156 Speaker 1: it's paid to play la you know. And it was 260 00:13:35,156 --> 00:13:37,716 Speaker 1: at the rock Sya of all places, you know, and 261 00:13:37,836 --> 00:13:41,276 Speaker 1: Chabo at the time, our basis was very instrumental in 262 00:13:41,876 --> 00:13:44,476 Speaker 1: kind of hassling these promoters and calling them and trying 263 00:13:44,516 --> 00:13:47,356 Speaker 1: to help, you know, manage the band and some of 264 00:13:47,396 --> 00:13:49,356 Speaker 1: our things, which I'm always grateful for. 265 00:13:50,116 --> 00:13:52,316 Speaker 3: So you were kind of like drinking partying back then. 266 00:13:52,596 --> 00:13:55,316 Speaker 3: Did your parents, like, did they see a change in 267 00:13:55,396 --> 00:13:58,436 Speaker 3: you or they kind of ever worried about you? Because 268 00:13:58,476 --> 00:14:01,116 Speaker 3: this is before the band was signed, the band really 269 00:14:01,156 --> 00:14:04,556 Speaker 3: took off. Were they worried about where you were going? 270 00:14:05,836 --> 00:14:08,756 Speaker 1: Not really. I mean I've always been a very responsible 271 00:14:08,796 --> 00:14:14,516 Speaker 1: person and so irrespective of the music and some of 272 00:14:14,556 --> 00:14:17,836 Speaker 1: the party that went with it, it wasn't overdone. I 273 00:14:17,836 --> 00:14:20,916 Speaker 1: would still check in on them and make sure everyone's okay, 274 00:14:20,956 --> 00:14:24,156 Speaker 1: and you know, spend time there and whatnot. So it 275 00:14:24,196 --> 00:14:26,236 Speaker 1: wasn't you know, and I was in my late twenties. 276 00:14:26,276 --> 00:14:29,916 Speaker 1: It wasn't like I was, you know, fifteen, so you know, 277 00:14:30,236 --> 00:14:32,756 Speaker 1: so the age matters, you know. I think by the 278 00:14:32,756 --> 00:14:35,636 Speaker 1: time we started touring, I was thirty, you know, So 279 00:14:36,396 --> 00:14:37,996 Speaker 1: you know, it makes a difference. 280 00:14:38,036 --> 00:14:40,516 Speaker 3: But also maybe better too, because you already had life 281 00:14:40,516 --> 00:14:43,196 Speaker 3: experience and you knew how to sort of handle yourself, 282 00:14:43,236 --> 00:14:46,436 Speaker 3: which is probably very important when you're around all that. 283 00:14:46,636 --> 00:14:48,836 Speaker 1: Leah I remember the first time someone came at a 284 00:14:48,876 --> 00:14:51,196 Speaker 1: club and goes, oh my god, you guys are the 285 00:14:51,236 --> 00:14:54,756 Speaker 1: most incredible, amazing thing, and I just looked at them, 286 00:14:54,876 --> 00:14:57,836 Speaker 1: like and in my mind, I'm like, wow, this industry 287 00:14:57,916 --> 00:15:02,076 Speaker 1: is quite different. There's a lot of like puff, like 288 00:15:02,156 --> 00:15:04,116 Speaker 1: there's a lot of bullshit, you know, and I'm like, 289 00:15:04,636 --> 00:15:08,036 Speaker 1: very interesting. I'm like, oh, thank you so much, you know, like. 290 00:15:08,556 --> 00:15:10,276 Speaker 4: You know what I mean, like you just because I've 291 00:15:10,276 --> 00:15:13,396 Speaker 4: been in many industries jewelry industries, shoe industry, software industry 292 00:15:13,436 --> 00:15:16,356 Speaker 4: and stuff, and I'm like, I mean, I know we 293 00:15:16,476 --> 00:15:19,276 Speaker 4: do something unique, but like I know that's not you know. 294 00:15:19,356 --> 00:15:22,196 Speaker 1: I'm glad you feel that way. But there's a lot 295 00:15:22,236 --> 00:15:24,916 Speaker 1: of that bullshit in this industry. Like industry people would 296 00:15:24,956 --> 00:15:27,356 Speaker 1: come up and just blow smoke up your ass, and 297 00:15:27,796 --> 00:15:29,596 Speaker 1: that was a common thing, and I would just look 298 00:15:29,596 --> 00:15:32,036 Speaker 1: at them and go like, I mean, I'm not buying this. 299 00:15:32,676 --> 00:15:35,196 Speaker 3: Did you ever let yourself indulge in that at all? 300 00:15:35,396 --> 00:15:37,996 Speaker 3: Like one system really started to blow up. Did you 301 00:15:38,076 --> 00:15:41,396 Speaker 3: ever just sort of like roll with the ego and 302 00:15:42,356 --> 00:15:44,396 Speaker 3: give into that a little bit just to have sort 303 00:15:44,436 --> 00:15:45,716 Speaker 3: of the rock star experience. 304 00:15:45,956 --> 00:15:47,956 Speaker 1: I think it's import I would say it would be 305 00:15:47,956 --> 00:15:51,476 Speaker 1: impossible for our egos not to have been affected over 306 00:15:51,516 --> 00:15:54,276 Speaker 1: the long run. With system success and everything that we've garnered. 307 00:15:54,756 --> 00:15:57,356 Speaker 1: I think we've all our egos all played a part 308 00:15:57,436 --> 00:16:00,996 Speaker 1: in our creation and disaster all at the same time. 309 00:16:01,596 --> 00:16:04,356 Speaker 1: So I will you know, I won't deny that, But 310 00:16:05,036 --> 00:16:08,356 Speaker 1: I always saw through a lot of stuff with this 311 00:16:08,436 --> 00:16:11,196 Speaker 1: industry begin industry side, not so much fans fans. I 312 00:16:11,196 --> 00:16:14,316 Speaker 1: mean it's incredible, you know, like I'm incredibly grateful every 313 00:16:14,356 --> 00:16:16,516 Speaker 1: time we play a show, every time we get a response, 314 00:16:16,796 --> 00:16:19,956 Speaker 1: I mean, even inviting people to the cafe or whatever 315 00:16:19,956 --> 00:16:22,436 Speaker 1: and people show up or book signing, you know, from 316 00:16:22,436 --> 00:16:25,196 Speaker 1: my book or whatever. It's just I'm always at awe 317 00:16:25,516 --> 00:16:30,516 Speaker 1: that these people that I don't know personally come to 318 00:16:30,556 --> 00:16:33,956 Speaker 1: spend a little time with me, and it's incredible. Like 319 00:16:34,196 --> 00:16:36,476 Speaker 1: I'm always taken back by it because I don't take 320 00:16:36,476 --> 00:16:40,556 Speaker 1: it for granted. But the industry side, I've always kind 321 00:16:40,596 --> 00:16:42,396 Speaker 1: of looked through and been like, Okay, this is a 322 00:16:42,436 --> 00:16:45,356 Speaker 1: business like any other, you know, especially when people started 323 00:16:45,396 --> 00:16:50,596 Speaker 1: using the word baby, you know, come on, baby, like whoa, that's. 324 00:16:50,516 --> 00:16:53,516 Speaker 3: Nice, Like agents and stuff like that. 325 00:16:54,076 --> 00:16:57,796 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just the cheesier aspect you know, 326 00:16:57,876 --> 00:17:01,436 Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, this is interesting. I would just look 327 00:17:01,476 --> 00:17:04,596 Speaker 1: at them as non you know, fictional characters going might 328 00:17:04,636 --> 00:17:05,636 Speaker 1: write about you. 329 00:17:05,636 --> 00:17:09,396 Speaker 3: You know, I wanted to ask you. I was on 330 00:17:09,516 --> 00:17:11,916 Speaker 3: the system of a down Reddit page last night and 331 00:17:11,956 --> 00:17:13,916 Speaker 3: I just wanted to ask you a couple of questions 332 00:17:13,956 --> 00:17:16,756 Speaker 3: that yeah, sure that people threw up there because they 333 00:17:16,756 --> 00:17:20,076 Speaker 3: were kind of cool of okay, okay. One of them is, 334 00:17:20,316 --> 00:17:23,836 Speaker 3: what's the saddest, most heartbreaking song in the entire system 335 00:17:23,876 --> 00:17:25,116 Speaker 3: of a down discography? 336 00:17:25,676 --> 00:17:28,436 Speaker 1: Soldier's Side. I would say that's one of the saddest 337 00:17:28,436 --> 00:17:30,516 Speaker 1: When I sing that, I want to cry every time. 338 00:17:30,796 --> 00:17:33,036 Speaker 3: And that's a Darren Darren write that. 339 00:17:33,956 --> 00:17:36,316 Speaker 1: Darren wrote the majority of Yeah, the music. I may 340 00:17:36,316 --> 00:17:39,756 Speaker 1: have written some of it, but yeah, it's just to me. 341 00:17:39,876 --> 00:17:44,676 Speaker 1: It's the vocals are so haunting. The messaging is so powerful, 342 00:17:44,956 --> 00:17:48,396 Speaker 1: and you can relate no matter who you think of 343 00:17:48,476 --> 00:17:52,516 Speaker 1: those soldiers might be, whether they're American soldiers or Armenian soldiers, 344 00:17:52,596 --> 00:17:55,996 Speaker 1: or you know someone that's protecting you, or someone that's 345 00:17:56,076 --> 00:17:59,716 Speaker 1: dying for you, someone that you're waiting for them to 346 00:17:59,756 --> 00:18:03,516 Speaker 1: come home. You know, a mother's or a father's kind 347 00:18:03,556 --> 00:18:09,756 Speaker 1: of whoe. It is so so powerful and deep as 348 00:18:09,756 --> 00:18:12,476 Speaker 1: far as a cut, you know, it always gets me. 349 00:18:13,556 --> 00:18:15,636 Speaker 3: Where do you place that in the set list knowing 350 00:18:15,636 --> 00:18:18,636 Speaker 3: that it's going to be a really emotional performance for you. 351 00:18:19,316 --> 00:18:22,276 Speaker 1: It's not always on the set depends, like we do 352 00:18:22,316 --> 00:18:24,436 Speaker 1: different set lists, so it's not always on the set, 353 00:18:24,476 --> 00:18:27,596 Speaker 1: but if it is, it's usually not in the beginning. 354 00:18:27,596 --> 00:18:29,316 Speaker 1: It's usually a little towards the end. 355 00:18:29,876 --> 00:18:32,516 Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought this was interesting. So back to those 356 00:18:32,676 --> 00:18:36,156 Speaker 3: party days when you were at the rehearsal space. You 357 00:18:36,196 --> 00:18:38,476 Speaker 3: guys used to play a lot of cover songs at 358 00:18:38,476 --> 00:18:40,076 Speaker 3: those parties. What songs would you cover? 359 00:18:40,996 --> 00:18:45,436 Speaker 1: We did Metro by Berlin, I remember we released that. 360 00:18:46,076 --> 00:18:50,236 Speaker 1: At one point. Darren liked to cover Sultons of Swing 361 00:18:50,916 --> 00:18:55,316 Speaker 1: by Dire Streets, Dire Straits, thank You. I remember doing 362 00:18:55,316 --> 00:18:59,436 Speaker 1: a Madonna cover, even maybe la Isla Bonita. They always 363 00:18:59,476 --> 00:19:01,796 Speaker 1: would pick female covers for me just to mess with me, 364 00:19:01,876 --> 00:19:05,556 Speaker 1: which was cool because I actually was more influenced by 365 00:19:05,556 --> 00:19:09,116 Speaker 1: female vocalists than male vocalists. Anyway. Oh really like Yeah, 366 00:19:09,756 --> 00:19:13,956 Speaker 1: Ceesaria Aevora is one you know, I just I love 367 00:19:14,516 --> 00:19:18,316 Speaker 1: fado and I love her singing. I learned from her 368 00:19:18,596 --> 00:19:21,716 Speaker 1: just watching and listening to her. I never matter how 369 00:19:21,836 --> 00:19:26,396 Speaker 1: effortless singing should be. Singing should not be forced. It 370 00:19:26,436 --> 00:19:28,996 Speaker 1: should You should open your mouth and it should come out. 371 00:19:29,036 --> 00:19:31,196 Speaker 1: It should be that effortless no matter what you're singing, 372 00:19:31,596 --> 00:19:34,676 Speaker 1: if you're doing it right. You know, different singers like 373 00:19:35,356 --> 00:19:39,796 Speaker 1: Nina Simon and I Love you know, yeah, sultry singing. 374 00:19:39,836 --> 00:19:42,436 Speaker 3: You know, do you sing a lot in life? In general? 375 00:19:42,476 --> 00:19:44,076 Speaker 3: Do you walk around and hum? 376 00:19:44,676 --> 00:19:44,836 Speaker 1: No? 377 00:19:45,516 --> 00:19:48,716 Speaker 3: Do you you don't vocalize a lot? No? Just in life? 378 00:19:49,236 --> 00:19:51,676 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I just you know. It's it's kind of 379 00:19:51,676 --> 00:19:56,876 Speaker 1: funny because because singing became part of my profession, when 380 00:19:57,196 --> 00:19:59,876 Speaker 1: I stopped doing it so much, I just don't do 381 00:19:59,956 --> 00:20:02,836 Speaker 1: it until I have to in a way. I mean, 382 00:20:02,876 --> 00:20:05,636 Speaker 1: if I'm writing a song, I'm singing, if I'm you know, 383 00:20:05,956 --> 00:20:10,356 Speaker 1: But mostly I'm either painting or I'm composing for media, 384 00:20:11,036 --> 00:20:13,876 Speaker 1: and so I'm not really using my voice. I did 385 00:20:13,916 --> 00:20:16,636 Speaker 1: try this cool thing where I can compose with my voice, 386 00:20:16,636 --> 00:20:20,076 Speaker 1: which is very interesting. It converts your audio to MIDI 387 00:20:20,556 --> 00:20:24,996 Speaker 1: as you're singing through it. So I wrote a vocal 388 00:20:25,036 --> 00:20:29,756 Speaker 1: suite using a few of those kind of techniques and 389 00:20:29,836 --> 00:20:31,756 Speaker 1: we put We did a live show of it last 390 00:20:31,836 --> 00:20:35,116 Speaker 1: year called Invocations, which we did at this Soriad Theater 391 00:20:35,196 --> 00:20:37,916 Speaker 1: here in Los Angeles, and we put it out as 392 00:20:37,996 --> 00:20:40,036 Speaker 1: I mixed it as a record, live record with like 393 00:20:40,356 --> 00:20:44,156 Speaker 1: these incredible voices, five soloists, a full choir, and an orchestra. 394 00:20:44,676 --> 00:20:45,276 Speaker 3: Oh wow. 395 00:20:45,716 --> 00:20:49,916 Speaker 1: Yeah. So I use my voice almost like a writing 396 00:20:49,996 --> 00:20:54,636 Speaker 1: tool in that sense for a choir and whatnot. But yeah, 397 00:20:54,636 --> 00:20:58,036 Speaker 1: I don't generally sing. I do sing to my kid. 398 00:20:58,236 --> 00:21:00,236 Speaker 1: I have sung for my kids since he was young. 399 00:21:00,276 --> 00:21:02,756 Speaker 1: They say it's really great to do so, even if 400 00:21:02,796 --> 00:21:06,716 Speaker 1: you're a bad singer, because that's your voice. You know, 401 00:21:07,196 --> 00:21:09,476 Speaker 1: they know your voice from the womb and it's good 402 00:21:09,476 --> 00:21:11,796 Speaker 1: to sing to them when they're little. 403 00:21:12,516 --> 00:21:13,396 Speaker 3: Is he into music. 404 00:21:14,076 --> 00:21:17,596 Speaker 1: He's into music in a different way. I think it's 405 00:21:17,636 --> 00:21:19,716 Speaker 1: coming to him, and I'm not pushing it because no 406 00:21:19,756 --> 00:21:23,396 Speaker 1: one ever pushed it on me. He did want to 407 00:21:23,436 --> 00:21:25,516 Speaker 1: take drum lessons at one point, so I took him, 408 00:21:27,036 --> 00:21:29,516 Speaker 1: but he didn't follow through. He's got a little electronic 409 00:21:29,596 --> 00:21:31,116 Speaker 1: drum set. He's not playing it. So I'm like, well, 410 00:21:31,236 --> 00:21:32,636 Speaker 1: if you're not going to follow through, I'm not going 411 00:21:32,676 --> 00:21:35,116 Speaker 1: to drive you. You know, it's up to you. He's 412 00:21:35,116 --> 00:21:38,196 Speaker 1: got a guitar, doesn't play right whatever, but he loves 413 00:21:38,236 --> 00:21:42,956 Speaker 1: listening to music. He sings along. He's got incredible melodic memory, 414 00:21:43,356 --> 00:21:46,396 Speaker 1: and he wanted to use loops to kind of make 415 00:21:46,876 --> 00:21:50,436 Speaker 1: some music. So I've been helping him with that and whatnot. 416 00:21:50,956 --> 00:21:53,556 Speaker 1: So yeah, a different ways, just approaching him in a 417 00:21:53,596 --> 00:21:54,556 Speaker 1: different way. Music. 418 00:21:55,156 --> 00:21:58,836 Speaker 3: My kid's totally not into music. It's very disappointing. Oh 419 00:21:58,916 --> 00:21:59,596 Speaker 3: yet at least. 420 00:21:59,716 --> 00:22:02,316 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you never know when they might catch them, 421 00:22:02,676 --> 00:22:06,116 Speaker 1: you know, it's not something you can predict. Yeah, I mean, 422 00:22:06,156 --> 00:22:09,116 Speaker 1: my parents wanted me to take piano lessons. My dad 423 00:22:09,156 --> 00:22:12,316 Speaker 1: about me a guitar when I was really young, zero interest, 424 00:22:12,956 --> 00:22:15,556 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, and then at nineteen I got a 425 00:22:15,556 --> 00:22:18,076 Speaker 1: little Casio keyboard with the tiny little keys and it 426 00:22:18,316 --> 00:22:20,116 Speaker 1: changed my life. So you never know. 427 00:22:21,596 --> 00:22:24,556 Speaker 2: We'll be back with more from Serge Tonkien after this break. 428 00:22:28,676 --> 00:22:30,916 Speaker 2: We're back with more from Serge Tonkeyen. 429 00:22:31,836 --> 00:22:33,996 Speaker 3: Do you still like playing piano? Is that? Would you 430 00:22:34,036 --> 00:22:35,636 Speaker 3: say that's your main Yeah? 431 00:22:36,196 --> 00:22:38,836 Speaker 1: I like playing both piano and guitar, but I probably play, 432 00:22:39,316 --> 00:22:40,796 Speaker 1: you know, most most of the time. I'm in the 433 00:22:40,796 --> 00:22:45,796 Speaker 1: studio using my controller, my keyboard controller to basically play 434 00:22:45,956 --> 00:22:49,556 Speaker 1: all sorts of instruments. To compose using all sorts of instruments, 435 00:22:49,836 --> 00:22:51,436 Speaker 1: but I do have a piano. I have a nice 436 00:22:51,556 --> 00:22:53,796 Speaker 1: steinway both here and in New Zealand, and I love 437 00:22:54,436 --> 00:22:56,956 Speaker 1: recording that once in a while and just sitting and playing, 438 00:22:57,236 --> 00:22:59,436 Speaker 1: you know, just to come up with ideas for something. 439 00:22:59,516 --> 00:23:03,236 Speaker 1: It's it's a really fun way of just creating a 440 00:23:03,276 --> 00:23:05,716 Speaker 1: tone for a new project or something like that. 441 00:23:06,316 --> 00:23:09,436 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so cool, and you're so so you have 442 00:23:09,436 --> 00:23:11,556 Speaker 3: a solo album that you're putting out in the next 443 00:23:11,876 --> 00:23:12,516 Speaker 3: couple of months. 444 00:23:12,596 --> 00:23:16,556 Speaker 1: Yeah, in September, we're putting out an EP called Foundations, 445 00:23:17,236 --> 00:23:21,756 Speaker 1: and it's almost like a companion to the book because 446 00:23:21,796 --> 00:23:24,476 Speaker 1: it's chronological, so there's songs in there. The first song 447 00:23:24,516 --> 00:23:28,076 Speaker 1: we released, called af Day, is from twenty or plus 448 00:23:28,156 --> 00:23:31,156 Speaker 1: years ago that I had recorded and I just cleaned 449 00:23:31,196 --> 00:23:33,676 Speaker 1: up the drums and the guitars, but left the original 450 00:23:33,796 --> 00:23:37,596 Speaker 1: vocals for this archival kind of sound because your voice changes, 451 00:23:37,636 --> 00:23:40,356 Speaker 1: you know, over many years. And there's some other songs there. 452 00:23:40,356 --> 00:23:42,476 Speaker 1: Our next single is going to be Justice Will Shine On, 453 00:23:42,556 --> 00:23:45,956 Speaker 1: which is about the Armenian genocide and my grandparents. It's 454 00:23:45,996 --> 00:23:49,356 Speaker 1: a cool, heavy track, and then there's some more melodic 455 00:23:49,436 --> 00:23:52,756 Speaker 1: tracks that will come out later. They're all from different 456 00:23:52,796 --> 00:23:55,516 Speaker 1: periods of my career. I just wanted to put them 457 00:23:55,556 --> 00:23:57,916 Speaker 1: together in a way just like the book is, like, 458 00:23:58,116 --> 00:24:00,756 Speaker 1: you know, a story of different times in my life. 459 00:24:01,516 --> 00:24:04,876 Speaker 3: I know it's been a while since you've answered this question. 460 00:24:04,916 --> 00:24:06,916 Speaker 3: I don't know if the answer is different, but are 461 00:24:06,916 --> 00:24:09,676 Speaker 3: there any plans to record any news system. 462 00:24:09,436 --> 00:24:12,116 Speaker 1: Of a down music not at this time? 463 00:24:12,796 --> 00:24:17,996 Speaker 3: No? Does that make you feel sad at all? Or 464 00:24:18,076 --> 00:24:21,356 Speaker 3: is it totally fine because you're occupied creatively? 465 00:24:22,276 --> 00:24:25,396 Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean creatively, I keep on, you know, making 466 00:24:25,476 --> 00:24:29,356 Speaker 1: music and making art and making you know, doing creatively 467 00:24:29,356 --> 00:24:33,876 Speaker 1: what I'm meant to do. And if the opportunity arises 468 00:24:33,996 --> 00:24:37,956 Speaker 1: for us to work together in an egalitarian fashion and 469 00:24:37,996 --> 00:24:40,916 Speaker 1: the right way, with the right vibe and the right influence, 470 00:24:41,156 --> 00:24:43,676 Speaker 1: you know, then we'll do it. In twenty twenty, we 471 00:24:43,716 --> 00:24:47,636 Speaker 1: put out two songs because there was the invasion of 472 00:24:48,356 --> 00:24:51,156 Speaker 1: Artzef and Armenia happening by us of AJEA during COVID, 473 00:24:51,796 --> 00:24:54,436 Speaker 1: and people didn't know about what was going on. So 474 00:24:54,476 --> 00:24:57,036 Speaker 1: we used you know, the band and putting out new 475 00:24:57,116 --> 00:25:01,556 Speaker 1: music as an opportunity to spread awareness, and we were 476 00:25:01,556 --> 00:25:04,796 Speaker 1: successful in doing so. So, you know, hopefully it's not 477 00:25:04,956 --> 00:25:08,436 Speaker 1: just the decimation of our people that's going to take 478 00:25:08,516 --> 00:25:11,676 Speaker 1: system of it writing new music. But I think when 479 00:25:11,716 --> 00:25:14,516 Speaker 1: that time is, and I don't know if it is 480 00:25:14,756 --> 00:25:17,716 Speaker 1: ever or or if it will be, that'll be amazing. 481 00:25:18,276 --> 00:25:20,716 Speaker 1: But I don't get sad by it because to me, 482 00:25:20,916 --> 00:25:23,556 Speaker 1: it is what it is. When it's right, then it happens. 483 00:25:23,596 --> 00:25:25,356 Speaker 1: When it's not, it shouldn't happen. 484 00:25:26,716 --> 00:25:29,276 Speaker 3: Would you be okay with a band going on without you, 485 00:25:29,316 --> 00:25:31,956 Speaker 3: with like a different singer in your place. 486 00:25:32,436 --> 00:25:37,396 Speaker 1: Absolutely. I've offered them that opportunity and been very supportive 487 00:25:37,436 --> 00:25:39,596 Speaker 1: of it many years. If they wanted to do that, 488 00:25:40,196 --> 00:25:42,316 Speaker 1: if they wanted to continue in a way that I didn't, 489 00:25:42,356 --> 00:25:44,476 Speaker 1: For example, if they wanted to tour a lot, and 490 00:25:44,516 --> 00:25:46,156 Speaker 1: I just want to do a couple of shows here 491 00:25:46,156 --> 00:25:49,436 Speaker 1: and there, because I'm not into touring a lot, it's 492 00:25:49,476 --> 00:25:51,876 Speaker 1: to be fair to them. If they wanted to do that, 493 00:25:51,916 --> 00:25:54,916 Speaker 1: I'm totally open to it. Still, you know, I'm not 494 00:25:54,956 --> 00:25:58,116 Speaker 1: sure they want to do that. They haven't until now, 495 00:25:58,196 --> 00:26:00,556 Speaker 1: and you know, I think it would take something away 496 00:26:00,596 --> 00:26:03,836 Speaker 1: from the prestige and legacy of the band itself. But 497 00:26:04,676 --> 00:26:07,716 Speaker 1: as friends and as someone who cares very much about 498 00:26:07,756 --> 00:26:09,516 Speaker 1: my partners, I would be okay with it. 499 00:26:10,356 --> 00:26:13,876 Speaker 3: What do you think it is about you all as individuals, 500 00:26:13,876 --> 00:26:16,556 Speaker 3: the alchemy of you together that makes you so great 501 00:26:16,876 --> 00:26:17,516 Speaker 3: as a unit. 502 00:26:18,676 --> 00:26:22,276 Speaker 1: Everything that each person is, from their personality to their 503 00:26:22,316 --> 00:26:25,916 Speaker 1: playing style, to how they think, how they feel, and 504 00:26:25,956 --> 00:26:29,316 Speaker 1: the combination thereof makes system of a down what it is. 505 00:26:29,716 --> 00:26:33,156 Speaker 1: If you take any particle away from this compound, it's 506 00:26:33,196 --> 00:26:35,076 Speaker 1: not going to be system of a down. It could 507 00:26:35,276 --> 00:26:37,836 Speaker 1: be called system of a down, but it's not going 508 00:26:37,876 --> 00:26:39,396 Speaker 1: to really be system of a down. 509 00:26:40,236 --> 00:26:40,796 Speaker 3: Yeah. 510 00:26:41,236 --> 00:26:45,596 Speaker 1: Even the stubbornness and the you know, the creative difference 511 00:26:45,676 --> 00:26:49,956 Speaker 1: is everything. The push and pull, the manicness, the calmness, 512 00:26:49,996 --> 00:26:52,516 Speaker 1: all of the above is what makes we are. 513 00:26:53,796 --> 00:26:56,716 Speaker 3: That relationship. Does it feel similar to sort of like 514 00:26:56,796 --> 00:27:00,316 Speaker 3: other long term relationships you've had in your life? Do 515 00:27:00,316 --> 00:27:02,876 Speaker 3: you count it among like the other long term relationships 516 00:27:02,916 --> 00:27:03,356 Speaker 3: you've had? 517 00:27:03,676 --> 00:27:07,316 Speaker 1: Well, I definitely counted. I mean it's my relationship with 518 00:27:07,396 --> 00:27:11,676 Speaker 1: the band guys is longer than my relationship with my 519 00:27:11,716 --> 00:27:14,316 Speaker 1: wife is longer than you know, not as much as 520 00:27:14,316 --> 00:27:17,196 Speaker 1: my parents obviously, but it's been you know, it's like 521 00:27:17,236 --> 00:27:19,996 Speaker 1: thirty years, you know, and I'm fifty seven, So yeah, 522 00:27:20,076 --> 00:27:24,036 Speaker 1: I mean so long. There are long relationships and friendships 523 00:27:24,076 --> 00:27:29,036 Speaker 1: and partnerships. So but I don't necessarily compare them because 524 00:27:29,076 --> 00:27:32,156 Speaker 1: there it's a different type of relationship. You know, it's 525 00:27:32,596 --> 00:27:37,676 Speaker 1: art with business and personal as well, you know, all 526 00:27:38,116 --> 00:27:40,476 Speaker 1: wrapped in, which makes it a lot more complicated. 527 00:27:41,596 --> 00:27:46,276 Speaker 3: I love the stories about recording Toxicity at Rick's place 528 00:27:46,436 --> 00:27:50,556 Speaker 3: and sort of how it felt haunted and that I 529 00:27:50,556 --> 00:27:53,076 Speaker 3: guess was the same space that the Chili Peppers recorded 530 00:27:53,156 --> 00:27:54,396 Speaker 3: Blood Sugar, Sex Magic. 531 00:27:55,116 --> 00:27:59,316 Speaker 1: We actually recorded Toxicity at Cello Studios, which are now 532 00:27:59,356 --> 00:28:03,236 Speaker 1: East West. There are elements of Toxicity we did record 533 00:28:03,796 --> 00:28:07,436 Speaker 1: at the Miller House in the in the basement studio. Yeah, 534 00:28:07,796 --> 00:28:10,836 Speaker 1: and then we finished Steal this album also at the 535 00:28:10,876 --> 00:28:14,796 Speaker 1: same place, and then we moved to the Laurel Canyon 536 00:28:14,836 --> 00:28:18,236 Speaker 1: place for MESMRII sympitize where the Chili Peppers recorded, which 537 00:28:18,276 --> 00:28:19,916 Speaker 1: is the one across Sudini's place. 538 00:28:20,556 --> 00:28:21,596 Speaker 3: Okay, that's so cool. 539 00:28:21,796 --> 00:28:25,796 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was haunted for sure, really. So I 540 00:28:25,836 --> 00:28:29,356 Speaker 1: was there late night one day just playing keys by 541 00:28:29,396 --> 00:28:33,076 Speaker 1: myself up at the top of the house and I 542 00:28:33,196 --> 00:28:36,436 Speaker 1: heard these fucking doors slam and there was no one there, 543 00:28:37,476 --> 00:28:42,476 Speaker 1: and I was just like, fuck yeah. And it wasn't 544 00:28:42,476 --> 00:28:45,676 Speaker 1: the wind. It wasn't the wind because those were closed, 545 00:28:45,716 --> 00:28:48,116 Speaker 1: like there was I can't explain it. It was just 546 00:28:48,156 --> 00:28:55,356 Speaker 1: one of those where I just go off, bag out, 547 00:28:55,876 --> 00:28:58,396 Speaker 1: come back tomorrow when there's people here, but I'm not staying, 548 00:28:58,436 --> 00:28:58,676 Speaker 1: you know. 549 00:28:59,676 --> 00:29:02,196 Speaker 3: You know, yeah, And I love the story that you 550 00:29:02,236 --> 00:29:05,036 Speaker 3: told about Tom Petty coming by and hanging out. What 551 00:29:05,076 --> 00:29:06,156 Speaker 3: do you remember about that? 552 00:29:07,396 --> 00:29:10,356 Speaker 1: Rick was having dinner with him that night, and Darren 553 00:29:10,396 --> 00:29:14,116 Speaker 1: and I were working at Miller Drive at the studio 554 00:29:14,156 --> 00:29:17,276 Speaker 1: in the basement, and Rick brought him down just to 555 00:29:17,316 --> 00:29:21,476 Speaker 1: say hi, which was really sweet. And Darren had rolled 556 00:29:21,476 --> 00:29:24,956 Speaker 1: a joint, and you know, he was pretty cheeky by offering. 557 00:29:25,076 --> 00:29:28,116 Speaker 1: He's like, hey, you want to smoke one? And You're like, oh, no, 558 00:29:28,276 --> 00:29:30,796 Speaker 1: mind if I do. And he came down, smoked a 559 00:29:30,876 --> 00:29:33,396 Speaker 1: joint with us and listened to a song and gave 560 00:29:33,476 --> 00:29:35,596 Speaker 1: his input and liked what we were doing, which was 561 00:29:35,796 --> 00:29:39,516 Speaker 1: very encouraging, very sweet. You know, those are the things 562 00:29:39,516 --> 00:29:42,116 Speaker 1: that would happen if you recorded at Rex's place, right, 563 00:29:42,556 --> 00:29:44,596 Speaker 1: It's pretty amazing. I got to meet a lot of 564 00:29:44,596 --> 00:29:46,556 Speaker 1: people there as well. I mean that's how I met 565 00:29:46,596 --> 00:29:49,236 Speaker 1: Tony Kanal was a friend of mine from No Doubt, 566 00:29:49,276 --> 00:29:52,436 Speaker 1: and Gwen and you know, and just so many people 567 00:29:52,516 --> 00:29:55,796 Speaker 1: would just drop in and you know, and and he'd 568 00:29:55,796 --> 00:29:59,036 Speaker 1: invite us to dinners with different artists and whatnot, which 569 00:29:59,076 --> 00:30:01,836 Speaker 1: was amazing. You know. It's like kismet, you know, like, 570 00:30:02,236 --> 00:30:05,716 Speaker 1: you know, him walking into our life as artists, as 571 00:30:05,756 --> 00:30:10,356 Speaker 1: a band really changed. And you know, I'm ever so 572 00:30:10,476 --> 00:30:13,476 Speaker 1: grateful to him, Like we'd be doing whatever, and at 573 00:30:13,476 --> 00:30:15,956 Speaker 1: the end, I'd go, I'm never going to forget what 574 00:30:15,996 --> 00:30:18,756 Speaker 1: you've done for us, you know, Like I always feel 575 00:30:18,756 --> 00:30:22,996 Speaker 1: that way. I always feel grateful for him entering our 576 00:30:23,036 --> 00:30:26,716 Speaker 1: lives and you know, and changing it to what we 577 00:30:26,796 --> 00:30:30,036 Speaker 1: have now. He came to our show in Las Vegas 578 00:30:30,076 --> 00:30:32,156 Speaker 1: for Sysney World, which is a festival we've been doing 579 00:30:32,196 --> 00:30:35,036 Speaker 1: for two years with Live Nation, and he was just 580 00:30:35,116 --> 00:30:37,196 Speaker 1: rocking out and it was so nice to have him there. 581 00:30:37,236 --> 00:30:40,196 Speaker 1: It was just felt like, you know, it'spent thirty years, 582 00:30:40,436 --> 00:30:43,316 Speaker 1: you know, it's like, you know, just him being there 583 00:30:43,356 --> 00:30:46,476 Speaker 1: and going, wow, man, like we've come so far, you know, 584 00:30:47,036 --> 00:30:49,596 Speaker 1: and it hasn't been it's been a rocky road in 585 00:30:49,636 --> 00:30:51,916 Speaker 1: a lot of places. It hasn't been cement, you know, 586 00:30:52,596 --> 00:30:56,116 Speaker 1: but but those rocks actually made our i don't know, 587 00:30:56,156 --> 00:30:58,716 Speaker 1: in a way, made our feet stronger and able to 588 00:30:58,796 --> 00:31:01,476 Speaker 1: walk better in a way you know, like you just 589 00:31:01,636 --> 00:31:03,556 Speaker 1: you see all this stuff looking back. 590 00:31:04,316 --> 00:31:06,396 Speaker 3: What do you think it is that he is able 591 00:31:06,436 --> 00:31:08,636 Speaker 3: to do when he's listening, when he's laying down and 592 00:31:08,676 --> 00:31:11,076 Speaker 3: listening to music with his eyes closed. What is it 593 00:31:11,116 --> 00:31:14,596 Speaker 3: that he's able to hear as someone who's worked with 594 00:31:14,676 --> 00:31:17,716 Speaker 3: him for so long, and what's the feedback that he gives. 595 00:31:17,956 --> 00:31:21,076 Speaker 1: I think he has an incredible intuitive understanding of the 596 00:31:21,156 --> 00:31:24,956 Speaker 1: music and art that's being displayed, and I think if 597 00:31:24,956 --> 00:31:29,076 Speaker 1: he loves something, he almost sees it from a fan perspective, 598 00:31:29,156 --> 00:31:32,596 Speaker 1: which is a very deep perspective. So he's not thinking, 599 00:31:33,436 --> 00:31:36,476 Speaker 1: at least in the beginning, in terms of capturing performance. 600 00:31:36,516 --> 00:31:39,356 Speaker 1: He's not thinking this could be louder. There are producers 601 00:31:39,396 --> 00:31:42,516 Speaker 1: that really get into the nitty gritty of mixing and 602 00:31:43,036 --> 00:31:45,076 Speaker 1: this could be this way, Maybe bring the chorus this 603 00:31:45,116 --> 00:31:47,916 Speaker 1: way that you know, for him, he just goes, Wow, 604 00:31:48,076 --> 00:31:50,076 Speaker 1: that part of the song is the strongest. I want 605 00:31:50,116 --> 00:31:51,876 Speaker 1: to hear more of that. It's such a simple thing 606 00:31:51,916 --> 00:31:56,676 Speaker 1: to say, but it is incredibly powerful and minimal, and 607 00:31:56,956 --> 00:31:59,836 Speaker 1: if you actually go with it, ninety nine percent of 608 00:31:59,876 --> 00:32:02,396 Speaker 1: the cases, it'll make the song way better. There are 609 00:32:02,436 --> 00:32:04,916 Speaker 1: times where maybe it might not, and he usually is 610 00:32:04,916 --> 00:32:07,636 Speaker 1: the first to say that didn't work. Glad we tried it. 611 00:32:07,716 --> 00:32:10,716 Speaker 1: You know. So as a pro which is not cerebral, 612 00:32:10,756 --> 00:32:14,516 Speaker 1: it's incredibly intuitive, which is what music itself is, you know. 613 00:32:15,116 --> 00:32:19,716 Speaker 1: And so as a producer, bringing that and he's got 614 00:32:19,716 --> 00:32:23,596 Speaker 1: this incredible way of making artists feel comfortable in their 615 00:32:23,596 --> 00:32:27,116 Speaker 1: own skin. And if an artist feels comfortable, they are 616 00:32:27,156 --> 00:32:30,036 Speaker 1: going to produce better. So it's a combination of those 617 00:32:30,036 --> 00:32:31,996 Speaker 1: two things, I think, as far as I'm concerned. 618 00:32:32,516 --> 00:32:35,756 Speaker 3: Yeah, do you remember when you first started working with him, 619 00:32:36,036 --> 00:32:40,596 Speaker 3: when you're recording the first album, any of his feedback 620 00:32:40,756 --> 00:32:44,156 Speaker 3: overall for your sound or for any direction. Maybe he 621 00:32:44,236 --> 00:32:46,036 Speaker 3: wanted to see you to like go in more of 622 00:32:46,076 --> 00:32:46,956 Speaker 3: a certain direction. 623 00:32:47,756 --> 00:32:50,756 Speaker 1: When I produce my own records, now I hear him 624 00:32:50,796 --> 00:32:53,756 Speaker 1: in my head going pronounce it better, So pronounce it better. 625 00:32:54,516 --> 00:32:57,796 Speaker 1: You know. Literally, he wanted to understand every word. If 626 00:32:57,836 --> 00:33:00,116 Speaker 1: you're trying to throw away a word on purpose, that's 627 00:33:00,156 --> 00:33:04,876 Speaker 1: one thing, but he was really into hearing every aspect 628 00:33:04,916 --> 00:33:07,436 Speaker 1: of it, you know, Like he would he would spend 629 00:33:07,476 --> 00:33:10,876 Speaker 1: a lot of times with our takes, general takes that 630 00:33:10,916 --> 00:33:12,516 Speaker 1: we do as a full band, so that we know 631 00:33:12,596 --> 00:33:16,036 Speaker 1: which is the best drum pick and then we do basically, 632 00:33:16,276 --> 00:33:19,556 Speaker 1: you know, record over with guitars and bass and keys 633 00:33:19,596 --> 00:33:23,196 Speaker 1: and what strings whatever we're adding end vocals. He'd spend 634 00:33:23,196 --> 00:33:25,876 Speaker 1: a lot of times with me with vocals. Well, I 635 00:33:25,876 --> 00:33:28,516 Speaker 1: think he gives it a lot of cred incident, so 636 00:33:28,716 --> 00:33:31,436 Speaker 1: he's still in my head going pronounced that better, pronounced 637 00:33:31,436 --> 00:33:36,516 Speaker 1: that better? You know, because it's important. Words are important. 638 00:33:35,796 --> 00:33:39,076 Speaker 3: When you're screaming. How do you protect your voice? I 639 00:33:39,116 --> 00:33:41,996 Speaker 3: feel like if I even talk with a loud voice 640 00:33:42,076 --> 00:33:44,956 Speaker 3: for a small period of time, my throat hurts. Yeah, 641 00:33:44,956 --> 00:33:46,956 Speaker 3: how do you protect your voice? And is that one 642 00:33:46,996 --> 00:33:49,756 Speaker 3: of the reasons why you do the loud soft thing 643 00:33:50,036 --> 00:33:51,956 Speaker 3: is to protect your voice so you don't have to 644 00:33:52,036 --> 00:33:53,996 Speaker 3: just like scream for four minutes straight. 645 00:33:54,556 --> 00:33:56,716 Speaker 1: You know. I really don't know the answer to that question, 646 00:33:56,836 --> 00:34:00,036 Speaker 1: because I'm still you know, if you leave me to 647 00:34:00,036 --> 00:34:02,116 Speaker 1: my own devices, I might lose my voice. You know. 648 00:34:02,756 --> 00:34:04,996 Speaker 1: But I try not to scream as much, and I 649 00:34:04,996 --> 00:34:06,876 Speaker 1: don't scream as much as I used to in the 650 00:34:07,596 --> 00:34:09,676 Speaker 1: you know, compared to the beginning of the band career, 651 00:34:10,436 --> 00:34:14,476 Speaker 1: and I have created a couple of techniques screaming and 652 00:34:14,516 --> 00:34:17,636 Speaker 1: growling techniques which don't hurt the voice, you know, like 653 00:34:17,716 --> 00:34:23,556 Speaker 1: instead of growling hard, I could do zero voice effect, 654 00:34:23,956 --> 00:34:26,836 Speaker 1: just a little dryness for example, you know, just it's 655 00:34:26,876 --> 00:34:32,156 Speaker 1: inhaling by cuppying. Yeah, there you go. The screaming thing, though, 656 00:34:32,276 --> 00:34:34,516 Speaker 1: is different. That's the growling thing. The screaming thing is 657 00:34:34,516 --> 00:34:37,836 Speaker 1: different with screaming. If I try to scream when my 658 00:34:37,916 --> 00:34:42,636 Speaker 1: body's not ready for it to push emotionally, not so 659 00:34:42,716 --> 00:34:46,676 Speaker 1: much physically, but emotionally. If I'm really if I get 660 00:34:46,716 --> 00:34:49,716 Speaker 1: angry in that moment and it's a screaming part, my 661 00:34:49,836 --> 00:34:52,276 Speaker 1: body just gives it to me and I scream perfectly. 662 00:34:52,436 --> 00:34:55,156 Speaker 1: But most of the time I'm pretty mellow, even when 663 00:34:55,196 --> 00:34:57,476 Speaker 1: I'm on stage doing these songs. So sometimes the scream 664 00:34:57,516 --> 00:34:59,756 Speaker 1: will come out like King Diamond, which will be like 665 00:34:59,796 --> 00:35:02,796 Speaker 1: three octaves higher but a clean voice, and I just 666 00:35:02,916 --> 00:35:06,236 Speaker 1: laugh and I go, I couldn't even scream that, you know, 667 00:35:06,396 --> 00:35:09,356 Speaker 1: like because the voice changes, you know. When Yeah, when 668 00:35:09,356 --> 00:35:12,196 Speaker 1: I started, when I would try to hit a high note, 669 00:35:12,356 --> 00:35:15,596 Speaker 1: my voice would crack because it wasn't trained. Now I 670 00:35:15,636 --> 00:35:18,476 Speaker 1: can hit a high note without cracking. But then the 671 00:35:18,556 --> 00:35:21,156 Speaker 1: recordings are with cracks, so everyone's like, oh, what happened 672 00:35:21,196 --> 00:35:22,916 Speaker 1: to his voice? Where's the heavy cracks sound? 673 00:35:22,956 --> 00:35:23,236 Speaker 3: Cool. 674 00:35:23,556 --> 00:35:26,236 Speaker 1: Where's the heaviness? You know, where's the girl? Where's the scream? 675 00:35:26,316 --> 00:35:27,156 Speaker 1: The thing? 676 00:35:27,756 --> 00:35:27,956 Speaker 4: You know? 677 00:35:28,036 --> 00:35:30,716 Speaker 1: And it's not there. Sometimes it's there, you know, I 678 00:35:30,716 --> 00:35:33,116 Speaker 1: don't know. The funny thing is the more I rehearse, 679 00:35:33,476 --> 00:35:36,276 Speaker 1: the better my voice gets, the less it cracks, the 680 00:35:36,356 --> 00:35:39,316 Speaker 1: less heart it sounds. Yeah, but I always have to 681 00:35:39,436 --> 00:35:41,636 Speaker 1: rehearse very little before a show. 682 00:35:41,716 --> 00:35:42,676 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah. 683 00:35:42,676 --> 00:35:44,276 Speaker 1: But then if you do too many of them back 684 00:35:44,276 --> 00:35:46,476 Speaker 1: to back and you're not well rehearsed and your voice 685 00:35:46,516 --> 00:35:48,196 Speaker 1: is not well trained, then you'll lose your voice again, 686 00:35:48,276 --> 00:35:49,956 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. I've lost my voice on tour, 687 00:35:50,036 --> 00:35:53,796 Speaker 1: but mostly from getting sick rather than yeah, blowing it myself. 688 00:35:54,636 --> 00:35:55,996 Speaker 3: Do you listen to heavy music? 689 00:35:57,596 --> 00:35:58,156 Speaker 1: I still do. 690 00:35:58,596 --> 00:36:01,716 Speaker 3: There's also a big debate on Reddit about your Spotify 691 00:36:02,316 --> 00:36:03,676 Speaker 3: most listen to artists. 692 00:36:03,956 --> 00:36:07,436 Speaker 1: Oh so that's really funny because my kid also listens 693 00:36:07,436 --> 00:36:10,516 Speaker 1: to my account and there's like songs with farts in 694 00:36:10,556 --> 00:36:15,436 Speaker 1: them and like, you know, like songs, songs about booty, 695 00:36:16,556 --> 00:36:17,556 Speaker 1: you know, that kind of stuff. 696 00:36:17,636 --> 00:36:19,276 Speaker 3: Hang out with my kid. He would love that. 697 00:36:19,396 --> 00:36:22,396 Speaker 1: They just just loves funny shit. So if they've been 698 00:36:22,436 --> 00:36:25,436 Speaker 1: listening to it, then they're gonna be They're gonna be whacked. 699 00:36:26,636 --> 00:36:28,956 Speaker 1: I love I love finding out new artists that that 700 00:36:29,476 --> 00:36:32,556 Speaker 1: are different than any anyone I've ever heard. Like there's 701 00:36:32,596 --> 00:36:35,316 Speaker 1: a few songs from Falling in Reverse. I don't necessarily 702 00:36:35,676 --> 00:36:38,516 Speaker 1: love all their stuff, like the dancy stuff, but there's 703 00:36:38,556 --> 00:36:41,676 Speaker 1: a few songs and their videos like that are amazing. 704 00:36:41,716 --> 00:36:44,396 Speaker 1: I follow this band called Polifia that's an instrumental band 705 00:36:44,796 --> 00:36:46,916 Speaker 1: that have heavy and on heavy music, like a lot 706 00:36:46,916 --> 00:36:49,516 Speaker 1: of R and B, incredible guitar playing and stuff like that, 707 00:36:50,196 --> 00:36:53,796 Speaker 1: and a bunch of bands like I'll go back sometimes 708 00:36:53,876 --> 00:36:57,316 Speaker 1: and just listen to Napalm Death or just like you know, 709 00:36:57,796 --> 00:37:00,836 Speaker 1: crazy you know, death metal music, just to play for 710 00:37:00,956 --> 00:37:03,956 Speaker 1: my son so he can understand that that's a sound 711 00:37:04,436 --> 00:37:07,756 Speaker 1: and he likes it. He likes a band called Dance 712 00:37:07,796 --> 00:37:10,236 Speaker 1: with the Dead that no one knows. They're an instrumental 713 00:37:10,716 --> 00:37:14,156 Speaker 1: kind of dark sinceed slash metal band. You know that 714 00:37:14,236 --> 00:37:16,396 Speaker 1: sounds cool. I took him to one of his one 715 00:37:16,436 --> 00:37:19,756 Speaker 1: of their shows. For example. There's so much music out 716 00:37:19,756 --> 00:37:22,556 Speaker 1: there right now, you know, I know, and you know 717 00:37:22,756 --> 00:37:25,516 Speaker 1: if you don't go with whatever just a pop thing 718 00:37:25,636 --> 00:37:29,236 Speaker 1: is and just actually do a deep dive. Unfortunately, you know, 719 00:37:29,636 --> 00:37:34,796 Speaker 1: you would think that the Spotify Apple Music algorithms would 720 00:37:35,196 --> 00:37:37,796 Speaker 1: teach you a lot of bands like that, but they 721 00:37:37,836 --> 00:37:41,196 Speaker 1: actually don't like their curation isn't as great as I 722 00:37:41,196 --> 00:37:41,916 Speaker 1: think it could be. 723 00:37:42,276 --> 00:37:45,516 Speaker 3: I know, it's very limiting and it pigeonholes you, and 724 00:37:45,556 --> 00:37:46,796 Speaker 3: it's really frustrating. 725 00:37:47,036 --> 00:37:47,396 Speaker 1: It is. 726 00:37:48,196 --> 00:37:51,276 Speaker 3: Yeah, makes me miss like a good curator, a good DJ. 727 00:37:51,516 --> 00:37:54,796 Speaker 1: A good DJ, or a good indie record store where 728 00:37:54,836 --> 00:37:57,636 Speaker 1: you walk in and they have a little section of 729 00:37:57,676 --> 00:38:00,756 Speaker 1: all the same weird shit, similar weird shit, and you 730 00:38:00,796 --> 00:38:03,436 Speaker 1: could tell from the covers and the guy behind the 731 00:38:03,436 --> 00:38:05,876 Speaker 1: counter goes, oh, that's really cool. It just came out like, 732 00:38:06,436 --> 00:38:08,836 Speaker 1: let me play it for you, that kind of thing. Yeah, 733 00:38:08,876 --> 00:38:10,636 Speaker 1: it's we're still missing that curation thing. 734 00:38:12,156 --> 00:38:14,276 Speaker 2: After one last quick break, we'll be back with more 735 00:38:14,316 --> 00:38:21,596 Speaker 2: from Lea Rose and Surge tonky In. Here's the rest 736 00:38:21,596 --> 00:38:24,596 Speaker 2: of Leo Rose's conversation with Serge Tonkyen. 737 00:38:26,116 --> 00:38:28,836 Speaker 3: I was wondering, when you sat down and you started 738 00:38:28,876 --> 00:38:33,516 Speaker 3: to think which moment to open the book with, How 739 00:38:33,516 --> 00:38:35,996 Speaker 3: did you pick a single moment from your life that 740 00:38:36,396 --> 00:38:39,276 Speaker 3: to sort of like kick off the entire book. 741 00:38:40,156 --> 00:38:43,156 Speaker 1: My last poetry book I released called Glaring Through Oblivion. 742 00:38:43,916 --> 00:38:47,876 Speaker 1: I started the poetry book off with a kind of 743 00:38:48,196 --> 00:38:52,196 Speaker 1: long form written narrative, like an essay, and it was 744 00:38:52,356 --> 00:38:55,756 Speaker 1: very much like the activist speaking, you know, and I 745 00:38:55,796 --> 00:38:58,596 Speaker 1: think it had a strong effect on how people perceived 746 00:38:58,596 --> 00:39:03,516 Speaker 1: the book initially. And so for me, that lesson I 747 00:39:03,556 --> 00:39:06,716 Speaker 1: think brought me into you know, when I wrote the memoir, 748 00:39:07,276 --> 00:39:10,076 Speaker 1: I wanted to put something in there that was a 749 00:39:10,116 --> 00:39:14,836 Speaker 1: blueprint for the whole book, you know, the looking for justice, 750 00:39:14,876 --> 00:39:19,436 Speaker 1: anti authoritarianism, speaking truth to power, freedom of speech in 751 00:39:19,436 --> 00:39:24,116 Speaker 1: the United States war, you know, fear in a democracy, censorship, 752 00:39:24,596 --> 00:39:27,636 Speaker 1: all of those things that have carried me as an 753 00:39:27,876 --> 00:39:30,836 Speaker 1: activist throughout my life and as an artist, you know, 754 00:39:30,916 --> 00:39:34,516 Speaker 1: thereafter were in that first chapter, you know, and so 755 00:39:35,396 --> 00:39:37,156 Speaker 1: you know, it kind of made sense. 756 00:39:37,756 --> 00:39:39,916 Speaker 3: If you could explain to us the moment that you 757 00:39:40,036 --> 00:39:43,196 Speaker 3: found that really represents all those things in one where 758 00:39:43,196 --> 00:39:46,716 Speaker 3: everything sort of is crystallized, and then what you came 759 00:39:47,476 --> 00:39:51,036 Speaker 3: away from that moment thinking you wanted to do differently. 760 00:39:52,036 --> 00:39:55,276 Speaker 1: So that moment was after ninety eleven, when we were 761 00:39:55,316 --> 00:39:59,116 Speaker 1: all traumatized by the terrorist attacks on the United States 762 00:39:59,156 --> 00:40:02,396 Speaker 1: of America. I remember feeling out of control. I felt 763 00:40:02,396 --> 00:40:04,156 Speaker 1: like everything was out of control, like the world's out 764 00:40:04,196 --> 00:40:07,636 Speaker 1: of control. What's next? Nuclear war, like what's going to happen? 765 00:40:07,836 --> 00:40:10,716 Speaker 1: Just fear, you know. And it was a time where 766 00:40:11,276 --> 00:40:13,916 Speaker 1: I had traveled to New York the night before nine 767 00:40:13,956 --> 00:40:17,756 Speaker 1: to eleven because we were doing our promo for Toxicity, 768 00:40:17,756 --> 00:40:21,396 Speaker 1: our second record with System of a Down, and we 769 00:40:22,236 --> 00:40:26,116 Speaker 1: were at a signing at Virgin Records in a Times Square, 770 00:40:26,636 --> 00:40:29,436 Speaker 1: and a bunch of fans at passed notes like they'll 771 00:40:29,476 --> 00:40:32,836 Speaker 1: do little trin kids pass notes, little letters. And I 772 00:40:32,876 --> 00:40:34,716 Speaker 1: had come home the night before and read one of 773 00:40:34,716 --> 00:40:36,796 Speaker 1: the letters, and it was a very depressing letter by 774 00:40:36,876 --> 00:40:41,196 Speaker 1: young men and I felt really really sorry and bad 775 00:40:41,236 --> 00:40:43,396 Speaker 1: for him, and I called him from the house phone 776 00:40:43,436 --> 00:40:46,956 Speaker 1: without blocking my number, which kind of insane at the time, 777 00:40:47,036 --> 00:40:49,916 Speaker 1: you know, you know, they were just starting to block numbers. 778 00:40:50,156 --> 00:40:52,516 Speaker 1: It was a new thing. We're talking about two thousand 779 00:40:52,516 --> 00:40:55,756 Speaker 1: and two thousand and one. So I called this young man, 780 00:40:55,836 --> 00:40:58,636 Speaker 1: had a great chat with him, and I felt like 781 00:40:58,716 --> 00:41:01,516 Speaker 1: I kind of you know, brightened up his day, mood 782 00:41:01,556 --> 00:41:05,276 Speaker 1: and whatnot. And then I've slept, and then the next morning, 783 00:41:05,316 --> 00:41:07,636 Speaker 1: my girlfriend at the time called me and said, turn 784 00:41:07,716 --> 00:41:10,356 Speaker 1: on the TV. Call me later, and I saw the 785 00:41:10,396 --> 00:41:14,236 Speaker 1: second you know, plane going into the second Tower, and 786 00:41:15,076 --> 00:41:18,356 Speaker 1: just like couldn't believe what was going on. Suddenly the 787 00:41:18,396 --> 00:41:20,316 Speaker 1: phone rings. I think it's my girlfriend, but it's this 788 00:41:20,436 --> 00:41:23,716 Speaker 1: guy from New York just losing his shit and screaming, 789 00:41:24,276 --> 00:41:26,956 Speaker 1: and I'm trying to calm him down, whereas inside I'm 790 00:41:26,956 --> 00:41:29,996 Speaker 1: looking at you know, the tube and going the world 791 00:41:30,316 --> 00:41:34,236 Speaker 1: is like just complete chaos. So it started that way, 792 00:41:34,276 --> 00:41:37,596 Speaker 1: but for me to get a grip on what's really happening, 793 00:41:38,316 --> 00:41:42,916 Speaker 1: I had a very common task of writing about geopolitics 794 00:41:42,916 --> 00:41:45,076 Speaker 1: and posting it to the band's website at the time, 795 00:41:45,516 --> 00:41:49,396 Speaker 1: and I did that for September eleven and posted an 796 00:41:49,476 --> 00:41:52,676 Speaker 1: essay called Understanding Oil on the band's website. Now, at 797 00:41:52,676 --> 00:41:55,236 Speaker 1: the time, there was a lot of you know, people 798 00:41:55,316 --> 00:41:58,196 Speaker 1: were really angry, people were hurt, and so there was 799 00:41:58,236 --> 00:42:01,236 Speaker 1: a lot of emotions prevailing. Myself and a few other 800 00:42:01,316 --> 00:42:05,116 Speaker 1: artists were really the only ones who spoke out against 801 00:42:05,556 --> 00:42:10,836 Speaker 1: America's geopolitical tanglings with the Middle East and their repercussions, 802 00:42:11,316 --> 00:42:14,156 Speaker 1: and so no one else was speaking about it. But 803 00:42:14,196 --> 00:42:16,276 Speaker 1: a handful of artists and we know them, including the 804 00:42:16,276 --> 00:42:20,316 Speaker 1: Dixie Chicks, and rage against the Machine and tool and whatnot, 805 00:42:20,916 --> 00:42:23,316 Speaker 1: and we all got shipped for it, and the shit 806 00:42:23,396 --> 00:42:26,036 Speaker 1: that I got for It was while we were about 807 00:42:26,076 --> 00:42:28,556 Speaker 1: to start tour a week after ninety eleven, where there's 808 00:42:28,556 --> 00:42:31,756 Speaker 1: still dangers of terrorist attacks and all this stuff. We 809 00:42:31,756 --> 00:42:35,636 Speaker 1: were getting a lot of hate from Americans for calling 810 00:42:35,676 --> 00:42:38,676 Speaker 1: out the US government's policies over the many, many years, 811 00:42:39,036 --> 00:42:43,156 Speaker 1: and so it was a really really stressful, trying time. 812 00:42:43,956 --> 00:42:45,636 Speaker 1: We were in Colorado and I got on the phone 813 00:42:45,676 --> 00:42:49,236 Speaker 1: with Howard Stern because his crew was coming after apparently 814 00:42:49,316 --> 00:42:51,516 Speaker 1: my essay, even though it was taken down off the 815 00:42:51,516 --> 00:42:55,156 Speaker 1: website and they hadn't really read the essay themselves, but hearsay, 816 00:42:55,196 --> 00:42:58,436 Speaker 1: they were kind of criticizing my words, and I was 817 00:42:58,476 --> 00:43:02,036 Speaker 1: there to defend them, make sure that we don't get 818 00:43:02,076 --> 00:43:04,796 Speaker 1: death threats with the band, make sure we can continue touring, 819 00:43:04,876 --> 00:43:07,916 Speaker 1: make sure that my partners wouldn't hate me forever. And 820 00:43:08,476 --> 00:43:11,796 Speaker 1: it was just horrible. And the lesson I learned from 821 00:43:11,796 --> 00:43:17,516 Speaker 1: that was that it is very easy to speak truth 822 00:43:17,556 --> 00:43:21,236 Speaker 1: to power when public opinion is on your side, but 823 00:43:21,316 --> 00:43:24,116 Speaker 1: that truth does not change when public opinion is not 824 00:43:24,196 --> 00:43:26,996 Speaker 1: necessarily on your side, and you have to do it 825 00:43:26,996 --> 00:43:29,996 Speaker 1: even more then even if they hate you, even if 826 00:43:30,036 --> 00:43:32,596 Speaker 1: all of them hate you, And that's the unfortunate thing 827 00:43:33,316 --> 00:43:37,316 Speaker 1: that we're in a world right now that information is 828 00:43:37,356 --> 00:43:41,236 Speaker 1: a commodity, a commodity that's propagandized and used in every 829 00:43:41,276 --> 00:43:44,876 Speaker 1: direction that you can think of. And the educational level 830 00:43:44,916 --> 00:43:48,276 Speaker 1: of our society has dwindled since the nineteen eighties Reagan arabs, 831 00:43:49,036 --> 00:43:52,956 Speaker 1: and so we're in a situation that I call the 832 00:43:53,036 --> 00:44:00,276 Speaker 1: uneducated majority, and uneducated majority democracies are dangerous because they 833 00:44:00,276 --> 00:44:04,716 Speaker 1: can pick leaders, or leaders can pick them in a 834 00:44:04,756 --> 00:44:09,556 Speaker 1: way that can really really change the quality in terms 835 00:44:09,596 --> 00:44:12,396 Speaker 1: of degradation of democracy and truth of you know, freedom 836 00:44:12,396 --> 00:44:15,076 Speaker 1: of speech itself. Yeah, in a nutshell. 837 00:44:16,116 --> 00:44:20,036 Speaker 3: It's interesting because I remember on nine to eleven Howard 838 00:44:20,116 --> 00:44:22,756 Speaker 3: Stern didn't leave because he was live on the air 839 00:44:22,796 --> 00:44:25,076 Speaker 3: when it was happening, when the attacks were happening, and 840 00:44:25,156 --> 00:44:28,356 Speaker 3: he didn't stop his show. He stayed in the studio 841 00:44:28,516 --> 00:44:30,836 Speaker 3: and he sort of was doing like a live broadcast 842 00:44:30,956 --> 00:44:34,076 Speaker 3: through it. And I remember him saying during it to 843 00:44:34,196 --> 00:44:37,316 Speaker 3: Robin something like, oh, we know who did this, or 844 00:44:37,356 --> 00:44:40,756 Speaker 3: we know who's responsible for this. So it seems like 845 00:44:40,836 --> 00:44:43,996 Speaker 3: he would be somewhat in agreement with what you wrote 846 00:44:44,236 --> 00:44:47,436 Speaker 3: in your essay, But was it not that was he 847 00:44:47,556 --> 00:44:49,916 Speaker 3: he was sort of like making it seem as if 848 00:44:49,916 --> 00:44:51,556 Speaker 3: you were anti American. 849 00:44:51,956 --> 00:44:54,756 Speaker 1: You know, being not born in the United States. That's 850 00:44:54,876 --> 00:44:56,996 Speaker 1: kind of the feeling that I got. There was that 851 00:44:57,036 --> 00:45:02,516 Speaker 1: feeling of xenophobia. And you know, I you know, I 852 00:45:02,556 --> 00:45:05,836 Speaker 1: write in a book that I've never felt an outsider 853 00:45:05,876 --> 00:45:08,956 Speaker 1: more than that day. But I'm fifty seven years old, 854 00:45:09,276 --> 00:45:11,916 Speaker 1: you know, and at the time, I was thirty something, 855 00:45:12,476 --> 00:45:16,436 Speaker 1: and so it was unfair to pin me on, you know, 856 00:45:16,476 --> 00:45:18,796 Speaker 1: an American just because I'm an activist and I spoke 857 00:45:18,876 --> 00:45:21,916 Speaker 1: truth to power, and because I knew about the Middle East. 858 00:45:21,996 --> 00:45:24,236 Speaker 1: I was from there, you know. I was born in Beirut, 859 00:45:24,316 --> 00:45:27,436 Speaker 1: raised in Los Angeles, ar meaning biculture, which is neither 860 00:45:28,276 --> 00:45:32,196 Speaker 1: very old indigenous Christian people from you know, the Caucuses. 861 00:45:32,316 --> 00:45:35,556 Speaker 1: And but I knew how things operated, and you know, 862 00:45:35,636 --> 00:45:37,956 Speaker 1: when something happens, you've got to always see who benefits 863 00:45:38,356 --> 00:45:41,476 Speaker 1: in world events. And I knew that I would you know, 864 00:45:41,636 --> 00:45:45,396 Speaker 1: read I had I subscribed to like intelligence reports, you know, 865 00:45:46,476 --> 00:45:48,716 Speaker 1: you know, monthly intelligence reports that I paid for that 866 00:45:48,756 --> 00:45:51,396 Speaker 1: I would get that that are public. I mean they write, 867 00:45:51,716 --> 00:45:53,756 Speaker 1: you know, these briefs on every country in the world 868 00:45:53,796 --> 00:45:56,356 Speaker 1: and what's happening, and you know that kind of stuff 869 00:45:56,356 --> 00:45:58,956 Speaker 1: and read New York Times read you know, economists and 870 00:45:59,316 --> 00:46:03,436 Speaker 1: music was my hobby. When music became my work, geopolitics 871 00:46:03,436 --> 00:46:06,116 Speaker 1: became my hobby. So it was just a natural thing 872 00:46:06,156 --> 00:46:08,716 Speaker 1: for me to do that. I still do it. 873 00:46:08,716 --> 00:46:10,916 Speaker 3: It's one thing, though, to write an essay and another 874 00:46:11,036 --> 00:46:14,556 Speaker 3: to be live on the air with someone who is, 875 00:46:14,796 --> 00:46:18,396 Speaker 3: you know, the top shock jock in the country and 876 00:46:18,436 --> 00:46:20,796 Speaker 3: who's intentionally trying to push your buttons. 877 00:46:21,076 --> 00:46:24,276 Speaker 1: I don't blame Howard at all, like I, you know, 878 00:46:24,436 --> 00:46:27,996 Speaker 1: because based on what he was feeling and the outcry 879 00:46:28,036 --> 00:46:30,996 Speaker 1: of the nation and everything he was you know, he 880 00:46:31,036 --> 00:46:33,876 Speaker 1: didn't know. He didn't know that I had good intentions 881 00:46:33,876 --> 00:46:35,716 Speaker 1: and you know, all of that. He was trying to 882 00:46:35,716 --> 00:46:37,196 Speaker 1: sess me out what she did, and at the end 883 00:46:37,196 --> 00:46:38,076 Speaker 1: he was satisfied. 884 00:46:38,436 --> 00:46:40,636 Speaker 3: How did you prepare for that, though? How did you 885 00:46:40,676 --> 00:46:41,956 Speaker 3: prepare for that? Onslaught? 886 00:46:42,156 --> 00:46:44,556 Speaker 1: It was like five in the morning in Colorado. I 887 00:46:44,556 --> 00:46:48,676 Speaker 1: hadn't slept. I was nervous as fuck, you know, getting 888 00:46:48,756 --> 00:46:52,556 Speaker 1: hate mail, and then the terrorist attacks, you know, on 889 00:46:52,956 --> 00:46:56,716 Speaker 1: television showing possible terrorist attacks, and you know, at large 890 00:46:57,036 --> 00:46:59,116 Speaker 1: events and every day we were going to be in 891 00:46:59,156 --> 00:47:02,596 Speaker 1: front of twenty five thirty thousand people. So I didn't 892 00:47:02,596 --> 00:47:04,916 Speaker 1: feel well at all. I was really stressed out. But 893 00:47:05,036 --> 00:47:07,956 Speaker 1: the way I got on the show is like very mellow, 894 00:47:08,516 --> 00:47:13,476 Speaker 1: very chill, non confrontational. And my friend Rick Rubin gave 895 00:47:13,516 --> 00:47:16,316 Speaker 1: me great advice at the time. He said, if you 896 00:47:16,396 --> 00:47:20,196 Speaker 1: talk about Vietnam, he'll agree with you. He knows governments 897 00:47:20,236 --> 00:47:23,436 Speaker 1: do bad things. Don't challenge him on his points, but 898 00:47:24,596 --> 00:47:28,996 Speaker 1: let him understand that ever government is corrupt and things 899 00:47:29,036 --> 00:47:31,716 Speaker 1: are happening around us that we may or may not understand, 900 00:47:32,156 --> 00:47:34,476 Speaker 1: and that you empathize with people obviously, which I do. 901 00:47:34,956 --> 00:47:37,636 Speaker 1: So it wasn't a matter of not speaking truth. It 902 00:47:37,676 --> 00:47:41,756 Speaker 1: was just not being able to challenge the rhetoric of 903 00:47:41,796 --> 00:47:44,076 Speaker 1: the times, right, the dogma? 904 00:47:44,596 --> 00:47:47,036 Speaker 3: So okay, So that's the opening moment of the book, 905 00:47:47,036 --> 00:47:50,076 Speaker 3: which you say sort of crystallizes a lot of your life, 906 00:47:50,276 --> 00:47:53,356 Speaker 3: and it brings in music, it brings in fame, it 907 00:47:53,396 --> 00:47:58,116 Speaker 3: brings in the geopolitical conflicts. How then, did you also 908 00:47:58,196 --> 00:48:03,356 Speaker 3: think about bringing in things like talking about the Armenian genocide, 909 00:48:03,476 --> 00:48:07,156 Speaker 3: talking about your family's history, but also weaving in your 910 00:48:07,196 --> 00:48:13,196 Speaker 3: own personal journey as obviously a very successful musician, How 911 00:48:13,196 --> 00:48:15,796 Speaker 3: did you think about organizing those pieces? Was that a 912 00:48:15,836 --> 00:48:17,316 Speaker 3: hard puzzle? To figure out. 913 00:48:18,076 --> 00:48:20,836 Speaker 1: I had a lot of help. The format in which 914 00:48:20,956 --> 00:48:24,116 Speaker 1: that I ended up doing the book was very much 915 00:48:24,276 --> 00:48:28,596 Speaker 1: like this format where I'm answering questions about my life 916 00:48:28,596 --> 00:48:32,476 Speaker 1: and just everything's being transcribed by someone and then we 917 00:48:32,556 --> 00:48:35,596 Speaker 1: have these wonderful chapters that we can organize and edit 918 00:48:35,676 --> 00:48:38,196 Speaker 1: and write and delete and delete and delete, because you 919 00:48:38,276 --> 00:48:40,516 Speaker 1: end up with way more than you can use. It 920 00:48:40,556 --> 00:48:44,636 Speaker 1: was a very interesting conversational writing technique. Of course I 921 00:48:44,636 --> 00:48:47,356 Speaker 1: would also sit down and write on top of that, 922 00:48:47,596 --> 00:48:49,556 Speaker 1: but it was a way that the book can be 923 00:48:49,636 --> 00:48:52,916 Speaker 1: more fluid. So we had all these stories that we 924 00:48:52,916 --> 00:48:56,996 Speaker 1: were organizing based on my family history and my grandfather's 925 00:48:57,356 --> 00:49:01,156 Speaker 1: plight from the Ottoman Empire and the Armenian Genocide. The 926 00:49:01,236 --> 00:49:04,796 Speaker 1: Armenian Genocide has always been kind of like the energy 927 00:49:04,956 --> 00:49:08,356 Speaker 1: river through which this band has always operated. For us, 928 00:49:08,556 --> 00:49:11,076 Speaker 1: it's not a political issue. It's a personal issue because 929 00:49:11,076 --> 00:49:13,556 Speaker 1: all of our grandparents, in system of a down were 930 00:49:13,596 --> 00:49:17,556 Speaker 1: survivors of this horrible atrocity that is still denied by 931 00:49:17,716 --> 00:49:22,556 Speaker 1: the descendants of the perpetrators, which is modern day Turkey. 932 00:49:23,156 --> 00:49:26,316 Speaker 1: So that's very current and real for us. It's not 933 00:49:26,476 --> 00:49:29,516 Speaker 1: like the Holocaust, where there were the Nuremberg Trials. That 934 00:49:30,036 --> 00:49:31,836 Speaker 1: not that put an end to the trauma, because the 935 00:49:31,836 --> 00:49:35,196 Speaker 1: trauma doesn't end, but at least come to terms with 936 00:49:35,316 --> 00:49:38,036 Speaker 1: the reality of it. On the same plane, you know, 937 00:49:38,276 --> 00:49:43,076 Speaker 1: Germany accepting its culpability obviously. You know, in the Nuremberg trials, 938 00:49:43,156 --> 00:49:46,676 Speaker 1: there were no Nuremberg truths for Deminian genocide. And so 939 00:49:47,076 --> 00:49:49,716 Speaker 1: the pain keeps on going, you know, the pain keeps 940 00:49:49,756 --> 00:49:53,476 Speaker 1: on continuing. The genocide continues, and we see genocide continuing 941 00:49:53,516 --> 00:49:57,396 Speaker 1: today as well in many respects in different places in 942 00:49:57,436 --> 00:50:02,876 Speaker 1: the world. Two weeks before Hamas attacked Israel, on September 943 00:50:02,916 --> 00:50:07,036 Speaker 1: twenty seven, the government of Azerbijon, led by a dictatorial 944 00:50:07,196 --> 00:50:13,316 Speaker 1: oligarch Ilhamaliev, attacked the indigenous population of Nigurno Autapa, which 945 00:50:13,356 --> 00:50:16,356 Speaker 1: has been for thousands of years our means have been 946 00:50:16,436 --> 00:50:18,396 Speaker 1: living there peacefully. I mean, there was a war in 947 00:50:18,396 --> 00:50:22,156 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties and Armenia to cont you know, Armenians 948 00:50:22,196 --> 00:50:24,796 Speaker 1: to control of the area because they were the majority 949 00:50:24,956 --> 00:50:29,316 Speaker 1: living there. And you know, after nine months of starvation 950 00:50:29,476 --> 00:50:33,596 Speaker 1: and two ICG judgments against them, azer Beijun attacked these 951 00:50:33,636 --> 00:50:36,796 Speaker 1: people and they became refugees. And most of the world 952 00:50:36,876 --> 00:50:39,516 Speaker 1: doesn't even know about it because it's not Israel and 953 00:50:39,556 --> 00:50:44,156 Speaker 1: Palestine and it's not other well known conflicts that it 954 00:50:44,236 --> 00:50:48,356 Speaker 1: has so many countries involved. And it's like, with all 955 00:50:48,396 --> 00:50:50,716 Speaker 1: these years gone by, with all this technology, all this 956 00:50:51,996 --> 00:50:57,716 Speaker 1: culture and wisdom and everything gleaned, we're still primitive other fuckers, 957 00:50:58,716 --> 00:51:00,796 Speaker 1: you know. That's what it comes down to. And it's 958 00:51:00,836 --> 00:51:01,516 Speaker 1: really sad. 959 00:51:02,156 --> 00:51:05,436 Speaker 3: You mean, primitive as far as our approach to dealing 960 00:51:05,436 --> 00:51:06,876 Speaker 3: with conflict. 961 00:51:07,396 --> 00:51:11,076 Speaker 1: Yes, as far as our approach to dealing with conflict, 962 00:51:11,156 --> 00:51:14,356 Speaker 1: as far as prioritizing profit over people, as far as 963 00:51:14,876 --> 00:51:20,516 Speaker 1: discriminating against whole populations, as far as minimizing their value 964 00:51:20,716 --> 00:51:24,676 Speaker 1: as human beings to be able to conduct this type 965 00:51:24,676 --> 00:51:27,956 Speaker 1: of outrageous ethnic cleansing. Yeah, all of the above. 966 00:51:28,716 --> 00:51:31,236 Speaker 3: Can you talk a little bit about how you've seen 967 00:51:31,516 --> 00:51:35,676 Speaker 3: Los Angeles change? So you moved from Beirut when you 968 00:51:35,716 --> 00:51:40,436 Speaker 3: were seven, family escaped the Civil War and you moved 969 00:51:40,436 --> 00:51:43,916 Speaker 3: to LA in a really kind of cool time. What 970 00:51:44,076 --> 00:51:46,596 Speaker 3: was the LA that you moved to because your family 971 00:51:46,596 --> 00:51:48,836 Speaker 3: moved to Hollywood. What was that like for you? 972 00:51:49,476 --> 00:51:55,276 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy five? La was really colorful, a lot 973 00:51:55,316 --> 00:51:57,836 Speaker 1: of soul music, a lot of disco coming on in 974 00:51:57,876 --> 00:52:01,716 Speaker 1: seventy six seventy seven, a lot of you know, hippies, 975 00:52:01,876 --> 00:52:05,916 Speaker 1: and it just for me, it was a total culture shock. 976 00:52:05,956 --> 00:52:08,916 Speaker 1: Obviously leaving a war torn country. It was like going 977 00:52:08,916 --> 00:52:11,836 Speaker 1: from black and white to color you know, hookers and 978 00:52:11,916 --> 00:52:16,716 Speaker 1: pimps and you know, it's like just a tapestry. And 979 00:52:16,756 --> 00:52:19,876 Speaker 1: we lived in Hollywood, like we didn't land in like Idaho, 980 00:52:19,956 --> 00:52:23,036 Speaker 1: you know, we landed in Hollywood, California, you know, from Lebanon. 981 00:52:23,396 --> 00:52:27,116 Speaker 1: So it was just like this crazy thing, but and 982 00:52:27,196 --> 00:52:29,876 Speaker 1: we felt like it was safe. I remember, until like 983 00:52:30,036 --> 00:52:32,356 Speaker 1: nine years old or ten years old, I used to 984 00:52:32,796 --> 00:52:36,316 Speaker 1: walk my younger brother to school up the street from 985 00:52:36,316 --> 00:52:39,956 Speaker 1: like Sunset and Alexandria, and we went to this private 986 00:52:40,036 --> 00:52:44,956 Speaker 1: Armenian school. We'd walk, our parents let us walk in Hollywood, 987 00:52:45,676 --> 00:52:47,956 Speaker 1: so it was like it was a great time. I 988 00:52:47,996 --> 00:52:51,036 Speaker 1: remember it incredibly fondly, even though it must have been 989 00:52:51,076 --> 00:52:53,956 Speaker 1: tortures for my parents because they came to the US 990 00:52:53,996 --> 00:52:56,196 Speaker 1: without any money and they had to kind of make do. 991 00:52:56,276 --> 00:52:58,316 Speaker 1: And they put us in private Armenion school for us 992 00:52:58,356 --> 00:53:02,396 Speaker 1: to maintain our cultural heritage in our language, which is 993 00:53:02,516 --> 00:53:05,356 Speaker 1: very brave, and they made it work, you know. But yeah, 994 00:53:05,556 --> 00:53:09,756 Speaker 1: LA's changed drastically. I have to say it's never been 995 00:53:09,916 --> 00:53:13,876 Speaker 1: home for me. I moved to New Zealand in twenty 996 00:53:13,916 --> 00:53:15,956 Speaker 1: something years ago. When I say move, I got a 997 00:53:15,996 --> 00:53:17,796 Speaker 1: place there, and I spend part of the year there 998 00:53:18,276 --> 00:53:22,996 Speaker 1: and I've got residency there because it felt a different 999 00:53:23,036 --> 00:53:25,156 Speaker 1: part of a home for me. LA's home in terms 1000 00:53:25,236 --> 00:53:27,596 Speaker 1: of all my friends and family are here, you know. 1001 00:53:27,716 --> 00:53:30,036 Speaker 1: So in that sense it's a home. As a city, 1002 00:53:30,076 --> 00:53:31,676 Speaker 1: I'm not in love with it. I've never been in 1003 00:53:31,716 --> 00:53:33,996 Speaker 1: love with it, and I can't tell you why. It 1004 00:53:34,196 --> 00:53:36,876 Speaker 1: just is. Maybe it's because we're all in our fucking 1005 00:53:36,916 --> 00:53:41,436 Speaker 1: cards all day. Yeah, but New Zealand to me has 1006 00:53:41,476 --> 00:53:46,796 Speaker 1: a more comfortable kind of normal bpm, you know, as 1007 00:53:46,836 --> 00:53:48,916 Speaker 1: far as the frequency of the heart and mind and 1008 00:53:49,036 --> 00:53:52,356 Speaker 1: normal kind of living, clean air, clean water, all of 1009 00:53:52,396 --> 00:53:56,916 Speaker 1: that stuff. But it also is not completely home, you know. Culturally, 1010 00:53:56,996 --> 00:54:01,916 Speaker 1: I'm always missing Europe Armenia because I feel like that's 1011 00:54:01,916 --> 00:54:05,316 Speaker 1: where I eat that culture, you know, the food and 1012 00:54:05,356 --> 00:54:09,356 Speaker 1: the colors of different countries and you know, and what 1013 00:54:09,396 --> 00:54:11,356 Speaker 1: they have to bring the art to music, you know. 1014 00:54:11,876 --> 00:54:15,156 Speaker 1: So for me, it's a balance of all these places, 1015 00:54:15,196 --> 00:54:16,036 Speaker 1: I guess, you know. 1016 00:54:16,236 --> 00:54:19,236 Speaker 3: Yeah, one place, so I you know, I was listening 1017 00:54:19,316 --> 00:54:22,276 Speaker 3: to your book, to the audio book, and I thought, oh, 1018 00:54:22,316 --> 00:54:25,236 Speaker 3: let me just google some some live system of a 1019 00:54:25,316 --> 00:54:28,596 Speaker 3: Down performances. And the first one that came up was 1020 00:54:28,676 --> 00:54:33,636 Speaker 3: the show in Armenia for the hundredth anniversary of the genocide. 1021 00:54:33,676 --> 00:54:37,756 Speaker 3: And I was blown away by the size of the audience. 1022 00:54:38,996 --> 00:54:41,396 Speaker 3: And I know that's normal for you all, because you're 1023 00:54:41,436 --> 00:54:45,796 Speaker 3: a huge band, but it was just incredible the amount 1024 00:54:45,796 --> 00:54:46,516 Speaker 3: of people there. 1025 00:54:46,876 --> 00:54:49,956 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was, it was, It was just it was 1026 00:54:49,996 --> 00:54:54,476 Speaker 1: just an incredible evening. And the way I remember it was, 1027 00:54:55,316 --> 00:54:58,756 Speaker 1: you know, it's this one hundredth you know, anniversary of 1028 00:54:58,836 --> 00:55:02,236 Speaker 1: Dermine genocide. We were invited to play in Republic Square 1029 00:55:02,876 --> 00:55:06,236 Speaker 1: and there were about fifty thousand plus people and in 1030 00:55:06,276 --> 00:55:08,916 Speaker 1: the rain, in the rain, yeah, and they say it 1031 00:55:08,916 --> 00:55:12,596 Speaker 1: all rains the day before the commemoration of the genocide, 1032 00:55:13,076 --> 00:55:14,436 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, even though it's in April 1033 00:55:14,476 --> 00:55:19,596 Speaker 1: at spring, you know. So I just felt calm amidst 1034 00:55:19,596 --> 00:55:25,516 Speaker 1: this incredible emotional chaos of the evening, and I felt like, 1035 00:55:25,596 --> 00:55:28,236 Speaker 1: had we stopped as a band doing anything at that moment, 1036 00:55:28,836 --> 00:55:32,556 Speaker 1: we've reached our kind of climax, you know, top of 1037 00:55:32,596 --> 00:55:37,676 Speaker 1: the mountain fuel and anything after was bonus that it 1038 00:55:37,716 --> 00:55:40,556 Speaker 1: felt like we were designed to be there on that day, 1039 00:55:40,596 --> 00:55:43,156 Speaker 1: from day one, thirty years back, twenty five years back, 1040 00:55:43,196 --> 00:55:46,276 Speaker 1: whatever that time period is. And that's a unique feeling 1041 00:55:46,356 --> 00:55:48,916 Speaker 1: to have, you know, you don't always feel that playing 1042 00:55:48,916 --> 00:55:52,636 Speaker 1: a show, or that's a feeling like we belong here. 1043 00:55:52,756 --> 00:55:55,516 Speaker 1: This is what we've been doing all this for, you know. 1044 00:55:55,956 --> 00:55:59,596 Speaker 1: And in the same show, we were able to pay 1045 00:55:59,636 --> 00:56:04,436 Speaker 1: homage to our ancestors, our grandparents who survived theirs who 1046 00:56:04,476 --> 00:56:08,516 Speaker 1: did not speak truth to power, both in terms of 1047 00:56:08,876 --> 00:56:12,916 Speaker 1: the hypocrisy of at the time the Obama administration not 1048 00:56:12,996 --> 00:56:16,596 Speaker 1: properly recognizing the genocide, as well as you know, other 1049 00:56:16,676 --> 00:56:22,036 Speaker 1: countries and their you know, involvement criticizing the oligarchic Armenian 1050 00:56:22,076 --> 00:56:24,596 Speaker 1: government at the time. This is before the twenty eighteen 1051 00:56:24,636 --> 00:56:30,716 Speaker 1: revolution and they're bad policies and rocking out with the 1052 00:56:30,756 --> 00:56:34,076 Speaker 1: crowd and enjoying it. It was just like so many 1053 00:56:34,156 --> 00:56:38,636 Speaker 1: things at once. It was just like incredible in that sense. 1054 00:56:38,956 --> 00:56:40,836 Speaker 3: And I know, you have a show coming up in 1055 00:56:40,956 --> 00:56:43,476 Speaker 3: Golden Gate Park. System of a Down is playing and 1056 00:56:43,516 --> 00:56:47,476 Speaker 3: it's a one off show. You're playing with deaf Tones. 1057 00:56:47,276 --> 00:56:50,396 Speaker 1: Mars Volta, deaf Tones, Yes and a few other bands, 1058 00:56:50,516 --> 00:56:51,156 Speaker 1: and I know you. 1059 00:56:51,076 --> 00:56:54,036 Speaker 3: Get super excited for these one off shows, So why 1060 00:56:54,116 --> 00:56:56,636 Speaker 3: is that especially exciting to have just like one show 1061 00:56:56,676 --> 00:56:58,276 Speaker 3: in the future that you're looking forward to. 1062 00:56:58,796 --> 00:57:01,956 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, we've done many tours, especially 1063 00:57:01,956 --> 00:57:05,876 Speaker 1: in the beginning of our career, and they're fun, but 1064 00:57:06,156 --> 00:57:11,276 Speaker 1: they're exhausting, physically exhausting, and artistically they're redundant after a 1065 00:57:11,316 --> 00:57:14,196 Speaker 1: few shows because you're excited to play, then you're excited 1066 00:57:14,236 --> 00:57:16,476 Speaker 1: to play. You're playing the same set give or take right, 1067 00:57:17,116 --> 00:57:22,636 Speaker 1: and they become groundhog Day. So when it's one, it's 1068 00:57:22,676 --> 00:57:24,836 Speaker 1: an event. You build up to it, you rehearse for 1069 00:57:24,916 --> 00:57:27,916 Speaker 1: it specifically, you set up a setless sports specifically for 1070 00:57:27,996 --> 00:57:31,436 Speaker 1: that show. You go there specifically for that show, and 1071 00:57:31,556 --> 00:57:34,236 Speaker 1: you rock out that day that show, and you leave 1072 00:57:34,316 --> 00:57:37,356 Speaker 1: and it just seems way more fun, I mean, way 1073 00:57:37,356 --> 00:57:37,876 Speaker 1: more honest. 1074 00:57:38,436 --> 00:57:40,716 Speaker 3: What do you do physically to prepare for that? You 1075 00:57:40,756 --> 00:57:42,836 Speaker 3: know you're not on tour and you're not every night 1076 00:57:42,876 --> 00:57:46,116 Speaker 3: going up there. What do you do to prepare your 1077 00:57:46,156 --> 00:57:47,916 Speaker 3: body for that? 1078 00:57:48,356 --> 00:57:50,516 Speaker 1: Well, in my case, I got to prepare my voice 1079 00:57:50,556 --> 00:57:55,076 Speaker 1: for it, because I don't sing unless i'm performing or recording, 1080 00:57:55,156 --> 00:57:58,436 Speaker 1: and I'm not always recording my voice because I do 1081 00:57:58,516 --> 00:58:00,836 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, soundtrack work and scoring work, 1082 00:58:00,836 --> 00:58:05,196 Speaker 1: which is instrumental, and so I'm always recording, but I'm 1083 00:58:05,236 --> 00:58:08,556 Speaker 1: not always recording my voice. It's rare. So with systems, 1084 00:58:08,876 --> 00:58:13,836 Speaker 1: it's not just ruoning. It's it's like gymnastics, vocal gymnastics. 1085 00:58:13,876 --> 00:58:15,836 Speaker 1: So I got to get into it, you know. So 1086 00:58:15,876 --> 00:58:18,516 Speaker 1: I'll start singing at home on my own, through my 1087 00:58:18,596 --> 00:58:21,356 Speaker 1: system in my studio just to get my voice back 1088 00:58:21,356 --> 00:58:22,836 Speaker 1: in shape. It's a muscle, you got to get it 1089 00:58:22,876 --> 00:58:25,196 Speaker 1: back in shape. So I'll do a few of those. 1090 00:58:25,356 --> 00:58:27,276 Speaker 1: I get lazy sometimes and not do as much as 1091 00:58:27,276 --> 00:58:29,596 Speaker 1: I really should. And then there's the rehearsals with the 1092 00:58:29,636 --> 00:58:32,396 Speaker 1: bands that allow you to really do it and perform 1093 00:58:32,396 --> 00:58:34,676 Speaker 1: and get your voice in shape and your body movements 1094 00:58:34,716 --> 00:58:36,956 Speaker 1: and what you know. But it's really just a voice 1095 00:58:36,956 --> 00:58:39,676 Speaker 1: in my case, remembering some of your parts. You know, 1096 00:58:40,076 --> 00:58:42,396 Speaker 1: whoa I don't remember that keyboard part of that song, 1097 00:58:42,476 --> 00:58:44,716 Speaker 1: Let me play it, you know that kind of stuff, 1098 00:58:44,756 --> 00:58:48,716 Speaker 1: guitar or whatever. So it's really just kind of brushing up. 1099 00:58:48,956 --> 00:58:51,236 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a long time to get your voice 1100 00:58:51,276 --> 00:58:53,716 Speaker 1: in shape just for one show, whereas if you're touring, 1101 00:58:53,756 --> 00:58:55,116 Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about it because you could 1102 00:58:55,116 --> 00:58:56,876 Speaker 1: do the show. Then your voice is already in shape. 1103 00:58:56,876 --> 00:58:58,356 Speaker 1: You go do the Mexio and then Mexio. 1104 00:58:58,596 --> 00:59:00,596 Speaker 3: So is it like several weeks that you're practicing. 1105 00:59:01,076 --> 00:59:03,116 Speaker 1: I'm way lazier than that it used to be when 1106 00:59:03,156 --> 00:59:06,556 Speaker 1: I was actually on point. Now I'm like, now it's 1107 00:59:06,556 --> 00:59:10,676 Speaker 1: several days ahead, several days of rehearsals. I have rehearsals. Yeah, 1108 00:59:10,716 --> 00:59:14,436 Speaker 1: but then the rehearsals are pretty for long. You get 1109 00:59:14,436 --> 00:59:15,396 Speaker 1: your workout on them. 1110 00:59:15,796 --> 00:59:18,236 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so cool. All right, Well, is 1111 00:59:18,276 --> 00:59:20,916 Speaker 3: there anything else that you want to talk about that 1112 00:59:20,956 --> 00:59:21,916 Speaker 3: we didn't talk about. 1113 00:59:22,196 --> 00:59:25,236 Speaker 1: We've covered a lot of ground here. Thank you, Leah. 1114 00:59:25,356 --> 00:59:26,196 Speaker 1: That's been awesome. 1115 00:59:26,316 --> 00:59:28,316 Speaker 3: Cool. Well, thank you again for doing this. Thank you 1116 00:59:28,356 --> 00:59:30,356 Speaker 3: for spending so much time. I appreciate you. 1117 00:59:30,556 --> 00:59:32,876 Speaker 1: It's actually my pleasure and I appreciate you as well. 1118 00:59:32,876 --> 00:59:36,396 Speaker 1: Thank you, Leah. 1119 00:59:36,396 --> 00:59:38,756 Speaker 2: Thanks to search Tonkin for taking us deep into System 1120 00:59:38,756 --> 00:59:40,996 Speaker 2: of a Down's history and talking about some of the 1121 00:59:40,996 --> 00:59:44,716 Speaker 2: inspiration behind his new memoir Down with the System. You 1122 00:59:44,756 --> 00:59:47,116 Speaker 2: can hear all of our favorite tracks featuring Surge on 1123 00:59:47,156 --> 00:59:51,356 Speaker 2: a playlist at Broken record podcast dot com. Subscribe to 1124 00:59:51,396 --> 00:59:54,876 Speaker 2: our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record podcast, 1125 00:59:54,916 --> 00:59:57,996 Speaker 2: where you can find all of our new episodes. You 1126 00:59:58,036 --> 01:00:01,436 Speaker 2: can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record 1127 01:00:01,476 --> 01:00:04,436 Speaker 2: is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help 1128 01:00:04,476 --> 01:00:08,276 Speaker 2: from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Holliday. 1129 01:00:09,156 --> 01:00:12,476 Speaker 2: Lkin Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you 1130 01:00:12,516 --> 01:00:15,796 Speaker 2: love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to 1131 01:00:15,916 --> 01:00:19,916 Speaker 2: Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers 1132 01:00:19,916 --> 01:00:22,996 Speaker 2: bonus content and ad free listening for four ninety nine 1133 01:00:23,076 --> 01:00:27,036 Speaker 2: a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions 1134 01:00:27,836 --> 01:00:30,436 Speaker 2: and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, 1135 01:00:30,476 --> 01:00:33,316 Speaker 2: and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's 1136 01:00:33,316 --> 01:00:35,356 Speaker 2: by Anny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.