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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Scott Sasman. I'm Evan Noby Williams. That was

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Speaker 1: a great punch there. I like that. It's like the

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Speaker 1: hyphen takes everything out of his air. I'm Michael Barr

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Speaker 1: and this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast, where

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Speaker 1: we explored the big many issues in the world of sports.

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Speaker 1: Disclaimer time at the top right here. Disclaimer Now, we're

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Speaker 1: taping this the day before. This air's on Wednesday, so

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Speaker 1: we're taping this on Tuesday. You know why we're doing this?

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Speaker 1: Tell us? Do you know what? Well? I think which holiday?

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Speaker 1: It is a holiday that I love it. I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to find it. The festival of life? Is this festivals

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Speaker 1: for the rest of you? Would you but da would

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Speaker 1: you like to clue him in? I know it's a holiday. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a holiday. I don't want to say the wrong

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Speaker 1: holiday because I don't want yea so please, That's what

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Speaker 1: I thought, but I didn't want to say. Maybe that's

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Speaker 1: what I thought, but I didn't that you had to

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Speaker 1: put something down on a test. You would have put yes,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't. You wouldn't put Russia Shana spelled it wrong. No,

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Speaker 1: I would have put you You say you're not one

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Speaker 1: of the young kipper. I mean, you know, technically start

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Speaker 1: this evening or how does that work? Look at it?

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Speaker 1: Without explaining the whole everybody can go to the Google

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Speaker 1: if they need to know more about Yam kippor well.

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Speaker 1: I thought at least people would have off today too,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, but no, no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: no, no no no no, not a bloomberg business of Jewish holidays.

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Speaker 1: That's right, And you guys are my mish. There we go,

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Speaker 1: because hey, we got to start here with the NFL

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Speaker 1: Hall of Famers. They're talking about, hey, it's time to

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Speaker 1: boycott future induction ceremonies unless their demands are met. Now

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Speaker 1: what demands are we talking about? Well, Evan, they want money, right,

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Speaker 1: they want money. It's funny we've everybody made such a

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Speaker 1: big stink about Terrell Owens and saying the Hall of

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Speaker 1: Fame induction this year. This seems like a much bigger,

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Speaker 1: bigger story and probably a better reason to to consider

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Speaker 1: skipping uh NFL players, you know, older players, hall of famers,

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Speaker 1: you know who. As they say in this letter, in

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Speaker 1: this letter to Roger Goodell, they're saying that they kind

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Speaker 1: of built the backbone of the league that now makes

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Speaker 1: fourteen billion dollars a year. A lot of them are

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Speaker 1: running low on money. A lot of them are struggling

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Speaker 1: from a health perspective. They are looking for more support

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Speaker 1: monetarily from a health stands. They want to stay in essence,

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Speaker 1: want to salary. One of the things on the list

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Speaker 1: of the salary a share of league revenue. Right they

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Speaker 1: want to get paid as if they're working in the NFL,

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Speaker 1: which they are not. And there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: Hall of famers that signed off on this, including Jim Brown,

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Speaker 1: Earl Campbell, Richard Dent, Carl I mean, keep going doing.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of Hall of Famers, a lot

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Speaker 1: of guys. When you watch football, Yeah, they cast they

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Speaker 1: you know, they call him the question Roger's salary, which is,

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Speaker 1: you know, upwards of forty million dollars a year. But

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Speaker 1: now they're saying that they shouldn't do some other projects

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Speaker 1: like the Hall of Fame and a billion dollar renovation

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Speaker 1: projects in Canton right now better used for that money,

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Speaker 1: like oh us, Well here's what they say. Meanwhile, many

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Speaker 1: of us Hall of Fame players can't walk and many

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Speaker 1: can't sleep at night. More than a few of us

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Speaker 1: don't even know who we are or where we are.

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Speaker 1: Our long careers left us especially vulnerable to the dangers

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Speaker 1: of this violent sport, especially those intentionally hidden from us.

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Speaker 1: You know. So this is a similar argument that we've

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Speaker 1: seen from from players in the concussion h lawsuits as well,

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Speaker 1: you know, essentially saying that that for for years, the

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Speaker 1: league possibly new or turn to blond eye to the

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Speaker 1: UH to the dangers that they were subjecting players too.

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Speaker 1: And now this generation of players, U don't ask for

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Speaker 1: a salary, which they've tried, right, They've gone the health route,

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Speaker 1: and now they're another layer. And I guess if you

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Speaker 1: need some leverage, right, So they have two pieces of

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Speaker 1: leverage here, two main principal pieces of leverage. One, they're

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Speaker 1: acting in the collective. This isn't one guy like the

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame ceremony, and the whole bunch of Hall

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Speaker 1: of famers don't show up and and and it sort

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Speaker 1: of puts a negative light on the whole event and

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Speaker 1: the whole thing. That's leverage. Two, next year, the NFL

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Speaker 1: is celebrating its one year. You can bet they're having

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Speaker 1: big time things planned for one d and to not

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Speaker 1: have these names the guys were built through the public

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Speaker 1: nos involved that that surely would hurt those and these

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Speaker 1: guys are a big name. I mean, as as Michael said,

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Speaker 1: you know when when some of these guys talk, there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of fans out there who listen and

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Speaker 1: there and there's leverage in that as well. Joe Namath,

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Speaker 1: Curtis Martin. I mean again, I can go on and

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Speaker 1: you have to remember too, when these guys played, there

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Speaker 1: was the theory is like hit me high, but don't

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Speaker 1: hit me low, because they were worried about getting a

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Speaker 1: leg injury. And now it's the exact opposite. And all

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Speaker 1: the changes that the NFL is making now to make

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Speaker 1: its games safer, these are the players that played well

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Speaker 1: before those rules were ever changed. Well then plus two

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Speaker 1: is now you're seeing now there's a rule out there

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Speaker 1: about the quarterback and they're trying to protect the quarterback again,

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Speaker 1: which brings me to the Clay Matthews hit during the

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Speaker 1: Packers Vikings game, which brought a penalty which shouldn't have

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Speaker 1: been a penalty. Have we gotten to the point now

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Speaker 1: It's like, yes, listen, I'm all about protecting the players,

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Speaker 1: but now have we gotten to a point where it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, the NFL is a violent game in itself,

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen. The President of the United States and

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Speaker 1: Richard Truman, right, I mean this is this is the

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Speaker 1: funny thing to me about the bedfellows that the that

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Speaker 1: the watering down of football has made. You know, you

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Speaker 1: have Richard Sherman and and Donald Trump to people who

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Speaker 1: politically are at way opposite ends of the spectrum and

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Speaker 1: who have butted heads publicly in the past. You know

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Speaker 1: they're both using the exact same phrasing. This is eventually

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Speaker 1: going to become flag football. The this issue has push

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Speaker 1: feed This issue has pushed people who are normally totally

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Speaker 1: at odds and don't agree on anything into kind of

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Speaker 1: the same camp of criticizing the game. But they the

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Speaker 1: referee can make a mistake on a play, and and

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Speaker 1: maybe that that that claim Matthews is one of them.

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Speaker 1: But I don't I don't understand how any player, any

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Speaker 1: NFL player, knowing what they know now, can argue with

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Speaker 1: rules changes designed to keep them from sustaining serious side

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Speaker 1: effects and injury. It doesn't make sense to me, and

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Speaker 1: I've said forever the NFL and anyone wishing to make

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Speaker 1: football safer has to stop talking to the players. They

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Speaker 1: have a player mentality. It's it's lost on many, it's lost.

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Speaker 1: Just stop talking to the players. You know you talked

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Speaker 1: to bar If and we were joking about it beforehand,

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Speaker 1: like how much contry role we have here at home?

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Speaker 1: You want to change things in the NFL, you talk

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Speaker 1: to the mothers and you talk to the wives. That's

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Speaker 1: where you send your message. And when the wife is

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Speaker 1: every day to the husband, what are you crazy? This

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Speaker 1: rule is designed so that you're here for your kids,

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Speaker 1: that you can pick up your kids and play with

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Speaker 1: your kids and know who you are. Listen to what

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Speaker 1: the letter to the NFL said, a lot of us

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Speaker 1: don't know who we are and where we are. You

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Speaker 1: want that, you want that as your future. And then

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Speaker 1: the guys will flippantly say this one drives me nuts.

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Speaker 1: I know my future and I'll gladly take it to

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Speaker 1: play in this league. That's just stupid. Well if the

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Speaker 1: movie Concussion, by the way, anybody that has not seen it,

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Speaker 1: go out and see it rented and do whatever. It

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Speaker 1: really tells the story about what NFL players have to

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Speaker 1: deal with. Having said that, I've spoken to the wives.

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Speaker 1: When I was doing some stories on this, I spoke

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Speaker 1: to the wives. I spoke to the mothers. These are

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Speaker 1: the folks who are most concerned and most willing to

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Speaker 1: take action, because if they need to be protected from themselves,

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Speaker 1: that's who's gonna do it. Do you think about the

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Speaker 1: Tony door sets. I mean, I just I can keep

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Speaker 1: going on about what's left. And Bob Costas Pop Costas

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Speaker 1: he got into big trouble for saying, Hey, these guys,

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Speaker 1: he said, I'm done with football. He's like, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to do it anymore. I mean, it's but he

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Speaker 1: but he got in trouble for it because he said this,

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Speaker 1: look at this sport, these guys. There's nothing going to

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Speaker 1: be left of these guys. Yeah, well exactly, And that's

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Speaker 1: not exactly a message that a broadcast partner once out there.

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Speaker 1: When you're paying billions of dollars to associate yourself with

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Speaker 1: the league, UH Wisconsin sports program at risk, if athletes

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Speaker 1: are paid, what's this all about? Yeah, this is this

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Speaker 1: is silly. I love and this is great. And Evan

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Speaker 1: has some strong feelings on this one because he has

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Speaker 1: reported so much. Normally, it's like, because we're saying something

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Speaker 1: really silly and he gets that look on his face.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, he has reported so much on the

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Speaker 1: business of college foot ball that when he hears a

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Speaker 1: tired argument, if the eye roll and the indignation comes out,

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Speaker 1: evan take it away. Yeah. So, as many of our

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Speaker 1: listeners probably know, there's a fairly high profile lawsuit going

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Speaker 1: on in in the Bay area right now. Uh, this

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Speaker 1: is the probably the most legitimate and best chance challenge

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Speaker 1: that college athletes have of overturning then A rules on

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Speaker 1: compensation for players. Um. And part of that argument, the

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Speaker 1: n c A, in defending its rules is essentially arguing

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Speaker 1: that fans only watch college sports because it's amature, so

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Speaker 1: paying athletes in any capacity would mean that they would

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Speaker 1: turn away from the game or be arguing that paying

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Speaker 1: athletes would restrict them from participating in the academic side

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Speaker 1: of institutions. Uh. There is a third argument being pushed

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Speaker 1: and you know carried water yesterday by uh this University

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Speaker 1: of of of Wisconsin Madison chancellor Rebecca Blank, where big

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Speaker 1: schools are claiming that they will drop sports. Uh if

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Speaker 1: college athletes get paid, that maybe there's too much money there. Exactly.

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Speaker 1: This is akin to saying that we won't shuttle our

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Speaker 1: students around if the price of gas goes up. You

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Speaker 1: know it's it's it's that silly. The Wisconsin athletic program

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Speaker 1: makes upwards of a hundred and fifty million dollars a year.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the few that is balanced in that

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Speaker 1: it doesn't take any money away from the academic side

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Speaker 1: of the school. Uh. If players and basketball and football

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Speaker 1: have to be paid a little bit, if some sort

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Speaker 1: of stipend, they will find a way to pay that.

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Speaker 1: The University of Wisconsin is not going to drop. I

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Speaker 1: love to would you call it the quarterback endownment. I'll

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Speaker 1: pay the who wouldn't want their name on the quarterback

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Speaker 1: endownmot what what rich donor absolutely and and and they're

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Speaker 1: depending on what the ruling is. If if this does

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Speaker 1: have to be, if schools do start paying athletes, and

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Speaker 1: the University of Wisconsin will do to stay competitive competitive

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Speaker 1: UM assistant coaches is certainly an area where you can see, uh,

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Speaker 1: some money being shaved, maybe even head coach contracts. That's

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Speaker 1: my favorite. Strang, that's my favorite. They will find areas

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Speaker 1: to shave money out of so that they can stay

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Speaker 1: competitive in college football and college basketball. See here's my

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Speaker 1: theory about college sports. Found music here. It is the

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Speaker 1: music I love that we know when it's coming. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't make it hard. Yeah, I just, I just

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Speaker 1: it's the same reason people root for college teams for

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Speaker 1: the same reason that they root for professional football team,

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Speaker 1: because they have an emotional attachment to the college team

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Speaker 1: like they have to the pro team. Like people from

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Speaker 1: Alabama either went to Alabama, they live in the Alabama

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Speaker 1: area and sorry Auburn, yeah sorry, University of Michigan either

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Speaker 1: went to the University of Michigan, is like, there's my team.

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Speaker 1: Or you're from the area, your family has a tradition,

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Speaker 1: had a sweatshirt when you were growing up, and you've

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Speaker 1: never rooted for a player that was there for more

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Speaker 1: than four years, you know, so it's even stronger. I

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Speaker 1: would say that the college bar we've had the discussion.

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Speaker 1: We've haveked some people. If Michigan and Ohio State played

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Speaker 1: a football game, all the players on the team went

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Speaker 1: to a neutral field and one war green and one

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Speaker 1: more purple, and you said, hey, the players from Michigan

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Speaker 1: and Ohio State are playing today, that the green team

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Speaker 1: is Michigan. The purple team is you know, Ohio State.

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Speaker 1: How many people would go, yeah, I see your point.

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Speaker 1: But when you're wearing amazing blue and with the marching

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Speaker 1: with the marching band, and it's got the name of

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Speaker 1: the school across, there is great value. That doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: that the players don't it should be. That's not what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, but there has to be a recognition that

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Speaker 1: the brand name of the schools offer tremendous value and

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Speaker 1: draw for the sport. There is a reason why, and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to admit it. And everybody knows. I'm a

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Speaker 1: huge Detroit guy, so I love my Detroit Lions, but

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Speaker 1: there's a little side of me that says, all right,

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Speaker 1: Tom Brady, how are you doing? And the reason why,

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Speaker 1: As everybody knows, Brady came out of the University of Michigan.

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Speaker 1: Remember the time Donovan McNabb and Syracuse went to the

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Speaker 1: Big House in beat Michigan. I do, hey, man, it's

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Speaker 1: time to move on to the next time. Florida State,

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Speaker 1: by the way, I don't care if they're terrible. We

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Speaker 1: happened and I were arguing this yesterday upstairs. I don't

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Speaker 1: care that Florida State right now is terrible. Syracuse which

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Speaker 1: couldn't beat anybody the last few years, beat Florida State.

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Speaker 1: I know that name. By the way. How about the

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Speaker 1: irony that the air conditioning wasn't working in the carrier dome.

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Speaker 1: I don't think is there air condition I don't think.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there is air conditioning the carriers and

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Speaker 1: the two degrees all the time. I don't think there

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Speaker 1: is air conditioning the car which is why they're doing

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Speaker 1: They kept talking about the temperature on the field. I

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Speaker 1: thought it was funny that that was in the carre.

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Speaker 1: Major League Lacrosse invests in its players, explained, well, I

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Speaker 1: guess if your players have gripes paying them more, what's

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Speaker 1: the proposing like pay raises here, raising the salary cap.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know exactly what. It's a lot of Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you don't there you go. That's a lot. If

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Speaker 1: you don't know much about mL L and the players,

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Speaker 1: A lot of them many have second jobs, many on

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Speaker 1: Wall Street as a matter of fact, they played, But

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Speaker 1: a lot of guys have second jobs, or I should

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Speaker 1: say first jobs, and then lacrosse is just sort of

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Speaker 1: their sideline. You know, they leave work early, go to

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Speaker 1: practice because it's just not enough money to live on.

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Speaker 1: So you know, if you want the best players in

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Speaker 1: the world, and that's what they have and you want

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Speaker 1: to keep them, you better pay them. And I think

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Speaker 1: they're recognizing that this is the outdoor lacrosse league for

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Speaker 1: folks like me who often get them confused. This change

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Speaker 1: comes with what seems like a any big pr push

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Speaker 1: by the lead new league commissioner, Sandy Brown and also

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Speaker 1: owners to say that this is kind of a new

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Speaker 1: era in in MLL. You know, they just looking at

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Speaker 1: some tweets here. The Atlanta Blaze said that the owners

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Speaker 1: meetings earlier this month were a quantum leap in the

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Speaker 1: right direction. The owner of the Chesapeague Bay Hawks, Brendan Kelly,

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Speaker 1: said that in my eight years of owning a team,

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Speaker 1: this was the most productive owners meeting ever. They are clearly,

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Speaker 1: whether it's fully accurate or not, they are pushing this

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Speaker 1: as a new era for MLL. In a world of

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Speaker 1: ot T bar you don't need to aggregate sixty million

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Speaker 1: people five million people like the NFL does on on

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Speaker 1: a on a Sunday. Can you get fifteen, twenty thousand,

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand? Can you build eventually an audience that will

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Speaker 1: pay ten fifteen bucks a month because there's such big

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Speaker 1: fans of the sport and they want they wanted, when

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Speaker 1: they wanted, how they want it. They're really passionate about it.

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Speaker 1: Can you build that sort of audience And if you can,

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Speaker 1: then you've got a real business. And one of the

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Speaker 1: big booze and the things that's been in an arrow

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Speaker 1: in lacrosse is quiver for so long is that their

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Speaker 1: auto and lacrosse is quiver. Their their audience is generally,

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Speaker 1: you know, better off financially than than your average place

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Speaker 1: demo affluence exactly. You know, the folks that that played

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Speaker 1: lacrosse growing up are more likely uh to be to

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Speaker 1: be in an upper class demographic, and that means that

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Speaker 1: it might be easier, it should be a less of

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Speaker 1: a tough sell. They have money to spend, and that's

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Speaker 1: gonna advertising. You want to advertise people who have money

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Speaker 1: to spend. Thank you all for listening to the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business of Sports podcast. I'm Michael Barr, along with Scott

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Speaker 1: Sasnick and Evan Wanting. We are here every Monday, Wednesday

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Speaker 1: and Thursday exploring the world of money in sports. Join

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Speaker 1: us again at the end of the week when we

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Speaker 1: speak with Brett your mark, the man who runs the

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Speaker 1: Barclay Center and the Brooklyn Nets. What I mean, who? Wow,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that You didn't know what that he

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Speaker 1: was on the show or that's no, No, I knew

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Speaker 1: he was on the show. But but you mentioned the

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Speaker 1: second half of that. He's the CEO of Brooklyn Sports

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Speaker 1: and Entertainment, the bargnant company of the Barkley Center of

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Speaker 1: the Brooklyn Nets. Yeah, yeah, wow, No, but didn't you

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Speaker 1: mention something else about that? Uh, well, never mind. I

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Speaker 1: just I didn't know that he found music. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know this week. No, he's a good man. I just

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Speaker 1: didn't know his full title, and he was some of

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Speaker 1: the title. But I'm an honest man. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio around the world

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Speaker 1: and online as an Apple Podcast.