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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's your Buddy Josh and for this week's

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Speaker 1: select I chose our two thousand and sixteen episode on

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Speaker 1: L S D. We really took our time with this

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Speaker 1: one and it's the longest regular single episode we've ever recorded,

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Speaker 1: clocking in at over seventy five minutes. Originally it was

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Speaker 1: even longer, with a thirty minute interview with John Hodgman,

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Speaker 1: but we chose to remove that from this select because

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Speaker 1: we've only recently broken hodgment of the habit of hanging

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Speaker 1: around the studio hoping for a chance to be in

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Speaker 1: the show, and we think that including the interview in

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Speaker 1: this rerun might send some mixed signals to him. If

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Speaker 1: you want to hear that interview, go back and listen

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Speaker 1: to the original episode published in Two Thousand and sixteen,

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Speaker 1: where it will remain a part of that forever and ever.

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Speaker 1: One note. We recorded this several years back, as evidenced

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Speaker 1: by Chuck's I can has cheeseburger reference. So some of

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Speaker 1: the phrases we use our out of date, like committed suicide.

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Speaker 1: Sorry for that at any rate. Tune in, turn on

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Speaker 1: and enjoy the heck out of this classic episode. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to stuff you should know a production of I heart radio. Hey,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the PODCAST. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles

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Speaker 1: W Chuck Bryant and Jerry and this is stuff you

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Speaker 1: should know. The podcast. It's right, Josh Uh, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: wish you two things. Happy Anniversary. Yes, happy anniversary, because

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Speaker 1: the day that we're recording, it was eight years ago

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Speaker 1: this week that we released. Well, not we've you. We

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Speaker 1: I wasn't even there yet. You were here in spirit.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate that. It's when stuff you should know. I

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Speaker 1: was born. Yeah, two thousand and eight, mid April, eight

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Speaker 1: years ago. We got forty. Two years ago. And Happy

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Speaker 1: Bicycle Day. Did you know that it was bicycle day

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Speaker 1: when you picked this out? No, really, really, that's actually

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Speaker 1: that's amazing, isn't it? Yeah, it's weird. Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 1: The thing that prompted it was that recent study about

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Speaker 1: LSD and I was like wow, yeah, we should totally

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Speaker 1: do LSD. We've never done it, and it was I

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Speaker 1: think yesterday that I realized today is Bicycle Day. And

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Speaker 1: for those of you who aren't in the know, Bicycle

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Speaker 1: Day not about riding bicycles to work. No, it's not.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, somebody on twitter said every

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Speaker 1: day's bicycle day. To me I'm like, I bet you

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Speaker 1: don't so. Bicycle Day commemorates the day when Um, Albert Hoffman,

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Speaker 1: the discoverer or Creator, I guess, depending on how you

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Speaker 1: look at it, of LSD Um, experimented on himself and

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Speaker 1: part of that included him riding his bike back home

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Speaker 1: from work while he was yeah, and we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: that here in a minute. But Bicycle Day itself was

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Speaker 1: started supposedly by Professor Thomas Roberts of Northern Illinois University.

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Speaker 1: Go huskies and commemorate ration of that what some people say.

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Speaker 1: It was a great day in history. It certainly was

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Speaker 1: the day that changed history. You really can't argue that. No,

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Speaker 1: and Um, if you want to just hear all things

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Speaker 1: LSD and stuff, you should know we and did two

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Speaker 1: other shows. Two Thousand Eight. Did the CIA test LSD

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Speaker 1: ON UNSUSPECTING AMERICANS? The answer is yes. Mind opening and October.

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Speaker 1: Can you treat mental illness with psychedelics? And now, in

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Speaker 1: typical stuff, you should know backward form. We're gonna DO LSD. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we like to nibble around that. Do L S D.

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Speaker 1: You know that'd be Weird Oh, we weren't supposed to. Oh,

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Speaker 1: we better get through this quick we got about thirty minutes. Oh,

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Speaker 1: we should also point out at the end of this

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Speaker 1: episode we have John Hodgment on is in a very

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Speaker 1: special listener male audio segment where he rebuts our nostalgia episode.

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Speaker 1: Although it seems like we agreed more than we didn't,

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Speaker 1: he didn't end up for butting anything. Yeah, uh, and

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Speaker 1: that's we worked out. That the the misunderstanding. How about that? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we like all times that you sit down with Hodgeman.

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Speaker 1: We talked for thirty minutes about one small thing. That's

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Speaker 1: why this episode is Super Long, because this is gonna

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Speaker 1: be long too. It is so it's super size robuts,

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Speaker 1: which it saw like eight more extra ads. Oh, let's

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Speaker 1: just kidding. Yeah, like Tommy Chong would probably one in

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Speaker 1: on this one. He's got some businesses, doesn't hey? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't joke, because sales will be like knocking on

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Speaker 1: the door. All right, chuck really really said Chuck. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about LSD today, Um, and L S D again.

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Speaker 1: That that Bicycle Day, that first day seventy three years ago.

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Speaker 1: I think it really did change the world, because there

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Speaker 1: are very few substances that have ever been created by

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Speaker 1: man that had a more sweeping, profound effect than LSD.

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Speaker 1: Like you kind of a lot of people associate LSD

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Speaker 1: with hippies. They're grateful dead. Sure, maybe ravers that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing, but if you really start to kind of

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Speaker 1: poke around popular culture here in the West, you start

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Speaker 1: to see it turn up everywhere. Like every American president

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Speaker 1: has taken LSD. Right. Well, it's part of the oath

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Speaker 1: of office, like the Bible is laced with lst. Put

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Speaker 1: their hand on their hand and it actually let's debunk

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Speaker 1: that myth right now. Apparently LSD is non absorbent through

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Speaker 1: the skin. Yeah, which means that those says. Well, there's

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Speaker 1: a bunch of rumors, but the one with Jimi Hendrix

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Speaker 1: would put LSD in his sweatband. He may have. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have done anything, although it could have trickled down

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Speaker 1: into his mouth maybe. Yeah. Uh, here's some other popular

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Speaker 1: LSD myths. I don't think there have been any other

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Speaker 1: drugs that have spawned. Maybe these days, but I'm not

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Speaker 1: hip to all these new drugs, man, and it's impossible

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Speaker 1: to be. I was doing research for this and I

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Speaker 1: ran across like all the new drugs that are available today.

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Speaker 1: It's incredible. There's just like an avalanche of new, new,

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Speaker 1: virtually untested drugs that's being they're they're going from synthesis

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Speaker 1: to human trials by way of customer like people are

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Speaker 1: taking these things and they're essentially like guinea pigs for

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Speaker 1: these things. Still extremely dangerous. Yeah, Molly and Billy and

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Speaker 1: Jim's way beyond that, Jimmy, Jimmy's old news, Jimmy's oldness. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Here just a few quickie UH highlights. Um, the guy

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Speaker 1: that thought he was an orange, so he like peeled

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Speaker 1: his skin off. Clearly LSD did that. Not True? Uh,

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Speaker 1: college kids who stared at the Sun until they were blind.

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Speaker 1: Clearly LSD is responsible for those children lick and stick

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Speaker 1: tattoos given out to children at Halloween. UH, seven hits

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Speaker 1: will make you legally insane. Right, you can use that

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Speaker 1: as a defense in court. Diane Link Letter jumped from

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Speaker 1: a window because she thought she could fly. So that

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Speaker 1: was a big one. That kind of changed public opinion.

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Speaker 1: She jumped from a window, she definitely did, but she

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Speaker 1: was also suicide and she had taken LSD before. What

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Speaker 1: made it such a huge case was that. Um, she

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Speaker 1: was art link letters daughter, art link letter. At the time,

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Speaker 1: this is, I think, the early Seventies. When his daughter

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Speaker 1: committed suicide, Um, he was already a bit of a

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Speaker 1: he was like the bill cosby of the age, which

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Speaker 1: is not surprising, and in the moral crusader and kind

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Speaker 1: of UM social scold of everybody and how things are

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Speaker 1: just not like they used to be in the good

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Speaker 1: old days. are so much better and everybody's just letting

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Speaker 1: their kids get away with so much and pull up

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Speaker 1: your pants and that kind of stuff. He was a

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Speaker 1: bit like that already. And then his his daughter, committed

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Speaker 1: suicide and Um, he was understandably uh devastated by that

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Speaker 1: and he turned his ire toward drugs because she had

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Speaker 1: taken LSD before. But there's no evidence that she was

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Speaker 1: on on LSD at the time. She was already suicidal.

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Speaker 1: But again, art link letter is going to all of

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Speaker 1: the kids parents and saying like, you can't let your

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Speaker 1: don't let this happen to your children too. Scared America's

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Speaker 1: parents and really kind of sealed the deal of public

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Speaker 1: opinion against LST at the time. Yeah, uh, and how

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Speaker 1: about one more for you, uh, Pittsburgh Pirates Pitcher, doc

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Speaker 1: Ellis those a no hitter on acid. That's true. That's true. Well,

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Speaker 1: I know we've covered it, dufus. Okay, Oh, you were

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Speaker 1: putting one into yeah, oh, sorry, there's a great documentary

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Speaker 1: about it and, Um, true is the only person's word

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Speaker 1: we have to go on. WAS DOC ELLIS LIST? Well,

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Speaker 1: his girlfriend also, I don't want to say testify, but

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Speaker 1: she she backed it up. She was like yeah, we

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Speaker 1: took acid into it, though, and apparently the story changed

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Speaker 1: a bit over the years and he also said other

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Speaker 1: things that didn't quite match up. So there's a little

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Speaker 1: speculation that he might have gussied it up a little bit. Oh,

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Speaker 1: like the ball was telling him what pitch to throw

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Speaker 1: and maybe when he took the acid. Um, so supposedly

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Speaker 1: took it at noon and he was pitching it like seven, yeah,

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Speaker 1: six thirty. So I mean he still would have been

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Speaker 1: on acid, he just wouldn't have been speaking on acid

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Speaker 1: or something. But it's a great documentary. You should check

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Speaker 1: it out. Yeah, it's good. Okay, you threw me off

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Speaker 1: with that. When you got me I was like, Chuck, wait,

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Speaker 1: we did an internet round up on that. Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: So there was another thing, chuck, that I remember growing

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Speaker 1: up with is that acid. If you took acid, it

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Speaker 1: would mess up your chromosome so that when you had

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Speaker 1: offspring kid they would be all kinds of messed up, disfigured, deformed,

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Speaker 1: would have severe developmental defects, all sorts of terrible stuff.

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Speaker 1: That's what we call it back in the early eighties,

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Speaker 1: by the way. Um, it could put holes in your brain. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's another one too, that everybody ringing around and believing,

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Speaker 1: and one of the reasons everyone ran around believing all

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Speaker 1: of these weird myths. By the way, no, LSD doesn't

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Speaker 1: affect chromosomes. That actually is metabolized. It out of your

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Speaker 1: system faster than just about any other drug on the planet.

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Speaker 1: You pee it up very quickly, your liver starts breaking

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Speaker 1: it down immediately. Um, so it certainly doesn't affect your

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Speaker 1: chromosomes and it doesn't put holes in your brain. But

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Speaker 1: the reason why these myths are around and the reason

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Speaker 1: why people believe them is because the authorities are the

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Speaker 1: ones who either made up these myths or latched onto

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Speaker 1: them and basically amplified them through these kind of public

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Speaker 1: service announcements and through the media, and so a lot

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Speaker 1: of people walked around believing this and and on the

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Speaker 1: one hand you can say, well, that's fine, it kept

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Speaker 1: some kids maybe off of heroin or something. Lying to

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Speaker 1: kids is fine when it comes to drugs. You can

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Speaker 1: make that case right, but at the same time you

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Speaker 1: can also point to the real chilling effect that the

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Speaker 1: LSD hysteria had on Um understanding consciousness, potentially treating mental

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Speaker 1: illness which were just now starting to realize, like yeah,

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Speaker 1: it has that a lot of potential for that, treating alcoholism. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of people whose lives could have been

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Speaker 1: helped had at the very least uh science been allowed

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Speaker 1: to continue his inquiry into LSD. But the the the

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Speaker 1: fear of LSD was so widespread and so profound that

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Speaker 1: even science was clamped down. Yeah, the CIA was like

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Speaker 1: only week and good people LSD, not you scientists in

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Speaker 1: controlled settings. There's this one guy. I don't know where

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Speaker 1: the lawsuit is now, but he uh, I don't think

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Speaker 1: we covered it on our show about the CIA, but

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Speaker 1: the family of a guy that supposedly jumped from a

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Speaker 1: window after being dosed. Yeah, but his family is suing

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Speaker 1: the CIA saying no, he was beaten up and shoved

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Speaker 1: out the window because he had information. I think he

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Speaker 1: was actually dosed, though, and he was losing his stuff.

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Speaker 1: I don't know he was dosed, but they're there. Their

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Speaker 1: contention the families that he was thrown out is that

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Speaker 1: he was murdered. I saw that too. Yeah, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: the Frank Olsen Project DOT org. Maybe is what the

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Speaker 1: website is, and we definitely covered that. The CIA thing,

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Speaker 1: because he definitely he was around at the time. That

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Speaker 1: happened at that time, because that was the time when, like,

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Speaker 1: if you went to a party with CIA, maybe we

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Speaker 1: were all just dosing one another for fun. If you

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Speaker 1: went to a San Francisco CIA party, you're a hardcore

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Speaker 1: at that. You'RE gonna drinking acid unwittingly. All right. So

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Speaker 1: we should, uh, even though we've covered it before, the

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Speaker 1: story is so wonderful, we should go over the creation

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Speaker 1: of LSD by Albert Hoffman again, do you think? Please begin.

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Speaker 1: You didn't want to skip this, did you know? I was?

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Speaker 1: I was. I think we should put in like a

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Speaker 1: little accompanying music or some of the yeah, like uh,

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Speaker 1: some Jefferson airplane maybe. So, Um, a Swiss chemist. His

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Speaker 1: name was Albert Hoffman. Like we said a few times.

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Speaker 1: He was working at a lab called Sandoz. Uh. They

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Speaker 1: were a farmer company and now they're uh, they're still around,

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Speaker 1: but there's a subsidy or I can't remember who. They're

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Speaker 1: not making drugs anymore. Okay. Uh. So he was working

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Speaker 1: on a project involving something called Ergot. It's a fungus,

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Speaker 1: it grows on Rye and it's and blamed, uh, notably

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Speaker 1: this woman named Linda L oh. I know what you're

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Speaker 1: talking about. Yeah, she put forth a theory that the

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Speaker 1: Salem witch trials were kicked off by a round of

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Speaker 1: Ergot poisoning, and she has a lot of good evidence. Um,

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Speaker 1: we'll go over it all. It's it's cool to look up, though,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of people came out and like, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I bet she's right. So you're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about the Hoffman? Yeah, so he was working with Ergot,

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Speaker 1: which grows on Rye and Um, did a lot of

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Speaker 1: poisoning over the years, notably in the Middle Ages. Even

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Speaker 1: though they used it medicinally, midwives used it to help

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Speaker 1: speed up labor until they decided in the nineteenth century.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty dangerous actually. Maybe we should just not poison

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Speaker 1: these pregnant women with Ergot. Well, they were. They were

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Speaker 1: not just giving them ergant to poison him for fun.

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Speaker 1: Apparently it um contracts muscles, right, so it would speed

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Speaker 1: up labor, right, exactly. Um, and they figured out that

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Speaker 1: they would actually prove it would slow bleeding, I think

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Speaker 1: by dilating blood vessels. Maybe. So they would give it

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Speaker 1: to a woman after Labor still, but they stopped giving

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Speaker 1: it to him, like to to create, to put a

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Speaker 1: woman into Labor. But it was it was remarkable enough

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Speaker 1: that even after this level of medicine Um went away,

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Speaker 1: scientists were still figuring out there like there's something with Ergot,

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Speaker 1: we've got to be able to do something with it.

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Speaker 1: It's just too potent, you know. So, uh, in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirties. This was the nineteen thirties. It's just so

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Speaker 1: crazy to think about when you see pictures of the

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirties. Yeah, they're like wires hanging everywhere, new electric lamps,

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Speaker 1: like experimenting with LSD. But it happened. Um at the

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Speaker 1: Rockefeller Institute in New York City, they isolated lysurgic acid

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Speaker 1: from ergot and Um. This is where Hoffman kind of

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Speaker 1: started his work resulting in ninety eight and the derivative,

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Speaker 1: the number twenty five, is and he did twenty four previous.

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Speaker 1: He finally landed on LSD and uh, that was kind

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Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, and LSD, we should say, stands for

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Speaker 1: lysergic acid die ethyl minde. And Uh, basically he started

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Speaker 1: with this lisergic acid um and just basically tinkered around

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Speaker 1: with it until he, like you said, arrived at LSD.

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Speaker 1: And again, he wasn't looking for the most potent psychedelic

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Speaker 1: known to humankind. No, he's looking for medicine exactly. He

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Speaker 1: was looking for, I think, a respiratory Um um stimulator,

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Speaker 1: something like that, maybe with asthma. So yeah, give these

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Speaker 1: kids some LSD twenty five right up. And Uh, he

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Speaker 1: the first time he messed around with it, he sent

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Speaker 1: it off to the pharmacologists to look because he was

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Speaker 1: a chemist at Sandos. Chemists at Sandos they figure out

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Speaker 1: processes to extract stuff, to make new compounds, that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. But that's that's the sum of their job.

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Speaker 1: Once they come up with a new pound that they're satisfied,

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Speaker 1: but they send it off to the pharmacology department. The

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Speaker 1: Pharmacology Department says Uh Yeah, actually this made that frog's

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Speaker 1: leg jump by itself all the way across the room.

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Speaker 1: I think there's some potential here. The pharmacologe just got

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Speaker 1: their hands in on LSD, examined it, said we don't

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Speaker 1: think there's any pharmacological potential here. Throw it away, and

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Speaker 1: Hoffman did as he was told. Five years later, he

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Speaker 1: um suddenly just thinks about LSD tent again and it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I think they missed something. I'M gonna

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Speaker 1: make a new batch just on my own. Later on

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Speaker 1: he was quoted as saying I did not choose LSD.

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Speaker 1: LSD found and called me. So him deciding to make

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Speaker 1: a batch on his own is highly irregular. For the

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Speaker 1: first for one, he's a chemist. You know, the chemist

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Speaker 1: don't go and tell the pharmacologist they missed something. They

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Speaker 1: certainly don't have a hunch five years later they missed something.

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Speaker 1: And then, thirdly, for him to make a batch of

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Speaker 1: LSD was very weird. It was contrary to his work orders,

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Speaker 1: and also Ergot was very expensive and Sandoz was trying

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Speaker 1: to keep a lid on expenses. So it was really,

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Speaker 1: really weird that five years later he mixes up another

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Speaker 1: batch of LSD. That is true. But while he was

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Speaker 1: mixing it up, it was a sort of a little

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Speaker 1: like a Peter Parker experiment gone wrong. He got a

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Speaker 1: little inside of him somehow. Uh, they think now he

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Speaker 1: probably got on his fingers and maybe like licked his

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Speaker 1: finger while he was he had been eating KFC for lunch.

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Speaker 1: Maybe so. And Uh, it got into his body. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and he, you know, he had a acid trip. He

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Speaker 1: had an accidental one at first, the world's first acid trip,

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Speaker 1: that's right. And that happened unless one of those pharmacologists

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Speaker 1: I was keeping something on the download. He's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is useless, throw all this away, except to save

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Speaker 1: me like tab since my head stats. So that was

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Speaker 1: April eighteen, nineteen, prety three. and Um, the next day

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Speaker 1: Albert Hoffman's like, I got to try that again. So

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Speaker 1: he takes some LSD. I think he took two fifty

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Speaker 1: micrograms at PM. YEA or not. I noticed that too,

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Speaker 1: almost on four nineteen, but that's a marijuana thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just I just it kind of jumped out at me,

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Speaker 1: is like, I thought I saw that too. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: everyone who's ever read that was like, Oh, dude, nineteen,

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Speaker 1: oh he was so close. That's the universe. So he

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Speaker 1: took two fifty micrograms, is that right, which is about

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Speaker 1: ten times the minimum dose that an average person takes

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Speaker 1: these days, and that's a lot. And he he shot it.

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Speaker 1: He injected it intravenously, I believe. Yeah, didn't he? Or

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Speaker 1: did he take it orally? I'm sorry, no, he took

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Speaker 1: it orally. Yeah, I don't I don't see in there

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Speaker 1: where he injected it. And Uh, he started to have

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Speaker 1: a wild ride. He did. He went to the doctor.

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Speaker 1: At first, he asked his assistant. He was like, Um,

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Speaker 1: I am tripping pretty hard. You don't know what that

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Speaker 1: is yet, but I do. And he said I think

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Speaker 1: I should go to the doctor. And he went to

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Speaker 1: the doctor and the doctor was like, Dude, you're fine. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you're not fine, but there's nothing physically going on with you, right,

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Speaker 1: and we should say he was that. He made it

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Speaker 1: to his house with his assistant and they were on

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Speaker 1: their bikes. This is why where bicycle day comes from.

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Speaker 1: And he was like, Oh my God, how long did

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Speaker 1: it take for us to get home? And as the

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Speaker 1: system was like actually, we made it home really fast,

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Speaker 1: and he's like what, he's freaking out, he's like go

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Speaker 1: give me some milk from the neighbor. Ends up drinking

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Speaker 1: two liters of milk that night. Yeah, because milk could

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Speaker 1: supposedly quell the effects of different drugs at the time. Ye, sense,

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Speaker 1: it did nothing for this no and his neighbor. Later

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Speaker 1: on there's a couple of stellar quotes. Let me jump back. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: Jump Back Jack, that's all right. After forty minutes after

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Speaker 1: that initial dose, He wrote down in his journal Seventeen

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Speaker 1: hundred hours beginning dizziness, feeling of anxiety, visual distortion, symptoms

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Speaker 1: of paralysis, desire to laugh full stop. Uh. And then,

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Speaker 1: following that closely, I was able to write the last

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Speaker 1: words only with great effort. And then who wrote that

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Speaker 1: last lot? And when he got the milk, he said, Um,

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Speaker 1: the lady next door, whom I scarcely recognized, brought me milk.

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Speaker 1: She was no longer Mrs r but rather a malevolent,

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Speaker 1: insidious witch with a colored mask. So people think now

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Speaker 1: he was fearful going into this experiment, and that's what

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Speaker 1: you know. We'll talk about setting, setting and your mindset

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00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,040
Speaker 1: going in has a lot to do with what kind

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Speaker 1: of trip you have. And people think now like he

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Speaker 1: went into it fearful and ended up, by all accounts,

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Speaker 1: having a bad trip. He had a bad trip, but

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Speaker 1: then the doctor came and was like look, man, uh

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Speaker 1: you're something wacky's going on with you, but physically you're fine.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to worry about it, and I believe

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Speaker 1: that's what kind of freed Hoffman up to have a

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Speaker 1: good time, have a good trip. After that he uh,

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Speaker 1: really started to go oh wow and really took in

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Speaker 1: what he was seeing, what he was thinking, what he

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Speaker 1: was experiencing and Um, moved from dysphoria to euphoria. Is

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Speaker 1: it the way he would have put it? That's right.

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Speaker 1: And he goes into work the next day tells everyone

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Speaker 1: about this amazing experience and uh, everyone else tries it. Well,

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Speaker 1: not everyone, but other people at Sandos. His two bosses did,

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Speaker 1: I think, his boss and his boss's boss, and the

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Speaker 1: reason they were like Nah, uh was because he said

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Speaker 1: I took two and fifty micrograms. They're like that's astounding.

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Speaker 1: Two fifty micrograms right that they've never heard of a

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Speaker 1: compound having the kind of effects that Hoffman was reporting.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, I measured it myself. I know what

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Speaker 1: I was doing. And it was two D fifty micrograms.

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Speaker 1: These guys each took a third of that and they

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Speaker 1: tripped pretty hard themselves, and from that moment on sandals

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Speaker 1: was like we're onto something here. Yeah, he also experimented

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Speaker 1: on animals. He started dosing boy, you name it. He

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Speaker 1: gave it to mice and he said they moved radically

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Speaker 1: and showed alterations in licking behavior. They taught themselves to

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Speaker 1: tide cats. Cats hair stood on end and they salivated.

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Speaker 1: He put cats and mice together and instead of the

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Speaker 1: cats attacking the mice, said the felines would ignore the

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00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 1: rodents or sometimes even appear frightened by them. How about that?

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Speaker 1: That's a cat on a trip. It said chimpanzees did

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Speaker 1: not show any obvious signs of being affected, but normal

394
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: chimps around them became upset, which he his theory was

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00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: they failed to maintain these weird social norms that are

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00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 1: only perceptible to other chimps. Fish swam oddly and finally,

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00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: spiders altered web building patterns. At low doses the webs

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00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 1: were even better proportioned and more exactly built than normally,

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Speaker 1: but in higher doses the webs are badly in rudimentary,

400
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Speaker 1: rudimentarily made. Yeah, so he would give it like look,

401
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,080
Speaker 1: there's a roach crawling across the floor, let's doe s

402
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 1: it see what happens. And there's also a very famous case,

403
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Speaker 1: and it wasn't Hoffmann who's who tested it, this dude

404
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 1: in Oklahoma Um who was a professor of maybe pharmacology

405
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Speaker 1: and I'm not sure psychology. He shot an elephant. He

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00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 1: got his hands on the like Oklahoma City Zoos Elephant

407
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 1: and shot it full of LSD. The elephant, like trumpeted once,

408
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: fell on its side, started seizing its eyes, roll back

409
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Speaker 1: on its head a bit, part of its tongue off.

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Speaker 1: It stayed like this for an hour. He finally, ultimately

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Speaker 1: a lot of people point to this as a fatality

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Speaker 1: from LSD proving that you can die. There's such a

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Speaker 1: thing as a fatal overdose from LSD Um, but other

414
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,880
Speaker 1: people say, well, actually, and then he shot the elephant

415
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: with even more tranquilizers to try to calm it down,

416
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 1: and that's probably what killed the elephant, but this guy.

417
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Speaker 1: But it was like that for like an hour and

418
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 1: a half, just suffering on just an enormous amount of acid.

419
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Speaker 1: And the guy actually used to most about it. He

420
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 1: kind of wore it like a badge, like it made

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00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: his career and it was just such a foul thing.

422
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: But even the scientologists were mad about it and released

423
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: like articles criticizing the guy in his work. Right. Yeah,

424
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: and then there's a lot of questions about whether he's

425
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: actually Um and a CIA funded scientists as well. Well,

426
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,719
Speaker 1: he had a Blowgun as the first thing they give

427
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: you when you sign up with the CIA. Here's your

428
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: blowgun and gallon of LSD. Yeah, R I p Tusky,

429
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: the elephant. He went in a really bad way. Is

430
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: that his name? That's terrible. Uh. So, long story short,

431
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: sandals is onto something. Um, they say this research is compelling.

432
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: We're gonna patent this stuff and market it as delicid

433
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: delsid D E L Y S I D and uh,

434
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: they started advertising it for use. Like psychiatrists, you should

435
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: get some of this stuff. Get some you should use

436
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: it yourself and use it on your patients and see

437
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 1: what happens. They said it again. I just want to

438
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: repeat what Chuck said. Use It on yourself. Well, yeah,

439
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: so you know what's going on exactly. Well, that's highly

440
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: irregular compared to the psychiatry of today. They don't usually

441
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 1: go like here's a here's a couple of any bars

442
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: for you to try. Just, you know, eat some and

443
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,719
Speaker 1: then you'll know what your patients are going through. They

444
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 1: don't do that anymore. So well that they they they're

445
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,679
Speaker 1: not supposed to chuck Um. But yeah, sandals was like

446
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,959
Speaker 1: sending the stuff out as an experimental drug. That's how

447
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: it was labeled at first, and as it caught on Um,

448
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,719
Speaker 1: they moved it into like full on marketing and started

449
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 1: selling them like hot cakes. Yeah, it's pretty neat. If

450
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: you look up delicid for Google images, you know it's

451
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 1: just package right there. It looks like it's a very

452
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties boss, says, Del said LS. Here it is

453
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: in the vials. So Weird. And they came in uh,

454
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: microgram doses, which is a it's a low dose. It's

455
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: about half of what an average dose you would buy

456
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: today would be at a fish concert, I guess. I'm

457
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: sure that's even a dated reference. What were people doing

458
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 1: lsd these days? E D M shows, sure, uh, scrillics shows,

459
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: how about that? That's probably dated. It probably we're old chucks,

460
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: you know. We're old billy Joel Concert. Sure people inject

461
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: LSD at Billy Joel concerts right in their eyeball. So

462
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: by Um, by the mid nineteen sixties, uh, is when

463
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: it actually became illegal, in nineteen sixty six. Stop making

464
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: it before that, though, as when it was selling like hotcakes,

465
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: like it was having a real beneficial effect in the

466
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: psychiatric setting. Doses were given to patients. Patients got doses

467
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: just in the U s alone, right. I mean like

468
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 1: a lot of doses were sold, and that was just

469
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 1: the U S. and it was having an effect. And

470
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 1: the in Europe they used it for Um this they

471
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: used it for I can't remember what it was called.

472
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: I want to say like psychotronic or something like that,

473
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: where they just give you like the the average dose,

474
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: maybe two pills, a low dose, and then they would

475
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: talk about your childhood and that kind of thing. They

476
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: used it to to kind of disarm the patient. Right.

477
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 1: In the US they used what was called psychedelic therapy

478
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: where they would give you about ten times the minimum dose,

479
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: about what Hoffman took when he experimented on himself, right,

480
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: and that was meant to just not not just break

481
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: down your defenses but to completely blow your mind basically

482
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: so that when you came back down you had had

483
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: all these revelations and you were essentially a better person

484
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,679
Speaker 1: with a more fulfilled sense of self and meaning in

485
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: your life. Yeah, those were the two schools of thought,

486
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: like in Europe, we'll talk about your childhood and give

487
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: you a little acid. In America we're gonna open all

488
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: these doors of perception and the thought was that you

489
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: could skip years of psychotherapy with like a good acid trip,

490
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: and a lot of people had this experience very famously.

491
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 1: Carrie grant was um hugely into acid as a result

492
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 1: of going to see a psychiatrist in Beverly Hills. And

493
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: there's a really, really great article from Vanity Fair from

494
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: a few years back called carrying the sky with diamonds

495
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 1: that I would strongly recommend going and reading because it's

496
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 1: really interesting and it gives you a really good glimpse

497
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: of this era where, like, like the mad men era,

498
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: everybody's taking LSD for at their psychiatrist's Office for eight hours. Well,

499
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: there was an LSD episode for madness right. I think

500
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: it's mentioned in that article. It's it was one of

501
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: the best of a great show when Roger Sterling takes

502
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: acid yeah, it was. It edit psychiatrists. Uh No, it

503
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: was Um, it was just like a you know, like

504
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: a party. Right, okay, but like a party where they

505
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: were saying like do this to expand your mind. It wasn't,

506
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: you know, slip to him or anything, right, but I

507
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: had a profound effect on him. In the show and Chuck,

508
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: there's actually this awesome little quote from Carrie grant that

509
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: makes it in that that article about his experience with LSD,

510
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: one of them at least. He said, Um, when I

511
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: first started under LSD, I found myself turning and turning

512
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: on the couch. And you have to imagine carry grant

513
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: saying this right, which makes even better. I said to

514
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: the doctor, why am I turning on the SOFA and

515
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: he said don't you know why? And I said I

516
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: didn't have the Vegas idea, but I wonder when I

517
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: was going to stop, when you stop it? He answered, well,

518
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: it was like a revelation to me. He felt like

519
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: he was under the spell of LSD, or there's whatever.

520
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: He realized like he had control over his life. It's

521
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: kind of cool. So it did have a really big

522
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: effect on people in real life as well. But, like

523
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: you said, very quickly, in very short order. Within ten

524
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: twelve years of it being marketed for the first time

525
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: by Sandoz, it starts to become outlawed around the country

526
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: and around the world by nineteen sixty five. Uh, not

527
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: a lot of research was done in the United States. Um,

528
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: by nineteen sixty nine there were only six projects conducted.

529
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: By seventy four the National Institute of Mental Health said

530
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: that had no therapeutic value and then the final experiments

531
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: in the United States took place in the nineteen eighties. Uh,

532
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: and those studies and most of the newer studies now

533
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: are concerned with end of life care and terminally ill patients. Yeah,

534
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: but the the the window is starting to open once

535
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: more to studying lst and its effects on neurology and

536
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: Um psychiatry and that kind of stuff. Um. And actually,

537
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: when it started to get outlawed in Sandos stopped making it.

538
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: They recalled their stocks of it and Um handed it

539
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: over to the National Institutes of Mental Health for study.

540
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: But within a few years the National Institutes of mental

541
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: health staid like no, no therapeutic value whatsoever, despite forty

542
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: people in the US alone based singing its praises. No

543
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: therapeutic value whatsoever. Yeah, well, I don't know if all

544
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: forty people said it was great. I would say a

545
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: significant portion of it. If you go back and look

546
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: at the media coverage of it at the time, it

547
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: was mostly favorable. It's very promising. All right, so we're

548
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: gonna take a break here and come back and teach

549
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: everyone how to make LSD. Srye. All right, Josh. Alright,

550
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: the first thing that you want to do if you

551
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: want to make LSD is be a really, really good

552
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: qualified chemist. Yeah, with a really good qualified set up. Yeah,

553
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: this is not meth. You can't go to Walmart making

554
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: it in a mountain dew bottle. And make it in

555
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: a mountain dew bottle on aisle six, shake it up

556
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: real good and you've got math. Yeah, Um, this is

557
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: the ingredients are tough to get and they're highly regulated. Yeah,

558
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: they're not found on drug store shelves. It's very different. No, plus,

559
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: I mean you can start with Um and there's actually

560
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:22,479
Speaker 1: other natural sources of LSD precursors, including Um morning glory

561
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: seeds in Hawaiian baby wood rows seeds, and there are

562
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: some LSD recipes that call for extracting the stuff called

563
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: L s a Um from these things and starting with that.

564
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: But it's it's a coin toss what kind of quality

565
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: your ultimate LSD is going to be, because you don't

566
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: know how how good the L S A is in

567
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: these things. Plus, the government, Um, in a nod to

568
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: their prohibition era tactics, actually put a toxic coating on

569
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: these seeds to discourage people from using them to create

570
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: LSD or even eating them, which some people do. So

571
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: I guess if you're a legitimate LSD Keem, you are

572
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: starting with ergic like Hoffman did. That's right, just like

573
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: in the old days, in the nineteen thirties. Uh, what

574
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: you want to do? You get this fungus, which is

575
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: the Erg it, and you have to culture it to

576
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: extract the alkaloids from that Erg it. Right, you have

577
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: to have a dark room because just like sheets of

578
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: acid can be contaminated by sitting it out in the

579
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: sun in the back of your Jetta, the fungus itself

580
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: will decompose under bright light. Right, so you gotta do

581
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: some of this early work in a dark room, right, exactly. Um.

582
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: And Uh, you take the org it once you have

583
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: it extracted. Um, you, you're you're isolating the alkaloids. Right,

584
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: organ alkaloid. and Um, when you've got the alkaloid you

585
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,959
Speaker 1: add some solvents and reagents to it which themselves are

586
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: dangerous as well. Um, one of them is chloroform, which

587
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: is no joke chemical. Yeah, Hoffman actually the next day

588
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: thought he didn't quite know for sure that it was

589
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 1: the LSD. So he huffed chloroform because he thought, you know,

590
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: it's probably the chloroform. He's like Jeff Bridges and the vanishing.

591
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 1: He has some chloroform and I guess woke up a

592
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 1: little while later and said, nope, that wouldn't acid. Nope,

593
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: something different, must be the LSD. Um. So chloroform is

594
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: not good for you. Another one of the re agents

595
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: is uh an, hydrous hydrazine, which sounds like a Douglas

596
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: Adams character, and it's a known carcinogen, very poisonous. And

597
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: both of them are easily breathed in and absorbed through

598
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 1: the skin. So it's these things are no joke and

599
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 1: they're important in turning erget alkaloids into LSD. So it's

600
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: very difficult, very dangerous if you're not getting that picture. Yeah,

601
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: hopefully no one's like setting up in their kitchen and

602
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: like following along hit sweet. Well, I mean you would

603
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: get nowhere very quickly. We're not giving out detailed information.

604
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 1: And what's funny? It's funny you bring that because until

605
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: I think, like nine, you could mail off to the

606
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: U S Patent Office and for fifty cents they would

607
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: mail you the patent to LSD, which is the recipe

608
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,439
Speaker 1: for LSD. You could get it directly from the US

609
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: government for a few years. I bet it's online somewhere,

610
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: don't you know? I'm sure. Yeah, on the dark web,

611
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: probably not even on I ken has cheeseburger. So the

612
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: ERGIC alkaloid is in synthesize into lesurgic acid compound. It's

613
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: called ISOLOSURGIC acid hydrolyzed, I'm sorry, hydrazide. And you, uh,

614
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: do you do that? By adding some chemicals, heat it

615
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: up a little bit. Uh, shake it in your milk jug,

616
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: put a little basil in there. Um, is it okay

617
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: to joke about this? If it's not okay to joke

618
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,720
Speaker 1: about this, chuck, then we've lost our sense of humor.

619
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 1: That's right. Uh, then that is isomarized, which means, and

620
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: this is pretty advanced chemistry, but it's really advanced chemistry. Yeah, uh,

621
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: it means the atoms are actually the molecules are being

622
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: rearranged in a chemical process with a little heat, a

623
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: little reagent, solvent, that kind of stuff. It's taking a

624
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: compound and basically doing the old switcheroo and then Bam,

625
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: you have an entirely new chemical as a result. That's right. Um,

626
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: you cool that down, you mix it up with an

627
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 1: acid and a base, evaporate it and you were left

628
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 1: with ISOLESURGIC diathylamide. I summarize it again, because you know,

629
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: if once it's good, too is better. And then you

630
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: have LSD, and it's it comes in the form of

631
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: a crystallized powder, I believe. I think it also says

632
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: you can also make it a liquid. No, you have

633
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 1: to do something else to make it a liquid. So

634
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: when you have LSD that you've synthesized from Ergat alkaloids,

635
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: it's a crystalline powder, a white powder. Yeah, and then

636
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: the old days, in the in the sixties, Um, you

637
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: could make micro dots, which is a tablet form. Uh,

638
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: you could just mix it with liquid and, you know,

639
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: use it, you know, put this drop under your tongue.

640
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 1: Um or you know, make tea out of it or whatever. Uh.

641
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 1: And then window pane, which was gelatine squares. So that's

642
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: still around. I saw on Reddit some kid was like

643
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: look at this and he was holding like a huge

644
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: thing of window panes and I think he called them. Well,

645
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: window panes too. Yeah, they're uh, the great, great movie

646
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: flirting with disaster. Did they take Gel tabs? Well, that

647
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: one of the Sun Lily, Tomlin and Ellen all the

648
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: son at the end of the movie doses everyone at

649
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: dinner with window pane. That's what he calls it and

650
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: I always just think that that's a funny word for it.

651
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: But these days you're more than likely going to see

652
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: what's called the blotterer acid. Uh. And what they do

653
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: is they just dissolve that powder in ethanol and then

654
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: dip a sheet of blotting paper that's conveniently perforated in

655
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: diod tiny little squares about a quarter inch by a

656
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: quarter inch. Yeah, they're little and and he soaks up

657
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: into that paper. Um. Sometimes the paper is just plain white,

658
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: sometimes it's got a little cartoon characters and things a

659
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 1: lot of times and uh, then that's you know, that's

660
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: a sheet of acid right there's actually a dude in

661
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: San Francisco who has an acid museum and he has

662
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 1: a book, like a huge binder of sheets of acid

663
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 1: just to basically show off the artistry on it. And,

664
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: um it's like how has this not been rated by

665
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 1: the D A? I think the answer that is because

666
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 1: the d e a doesn't know it exists. It's probably fake, right, no,

667
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: I would say that's stupid because he his waste of money,

668
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: his Um, well, I meant fake paper in there and

669
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: tell everyone it's acid, because what he's he's not trying

670
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: to sell it. He's trying to say, like, look at

671
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: the art that people make. You know what I'm saying

672
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 1: that why would he waste all that money putting the

673
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: drug on something? He's not. He's buying it. I don't follow.

674
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 1: Like he's going out and being like wow, that's a

675
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: really beautiful sheet of acid, buy it and put it

676
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: in my museum. Well, that's even dumber. So he said

677
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: that these things have been exposed to light over the

678
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: years and that they're they're most likely totally inactive. That

679
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: he said. The last twelve times I tried to take it.

680
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: It didn't work. He's like, but I traveled back in

681
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 1: time couple of times. So each square is a dose

682
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 1: and you can get up to nine doses on a

683
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: single sheet. UH, and we'll get to this later, but

684
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: the only might as well talk about it now. Uh,

685
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: there was a supreme court ruling in early nineties where

686
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: they said, Um, the weight of the drug is also

687
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: the weight of the paper, which, uh, yeah, I mean

688
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 1: a lot of people got really and remain upset about this. Uh. there.

689
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: The argument is that's the equivalent of saying, well, this

690
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: cocaine came in this Um suitcase, so just wigh the

691
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: suitcase with the cocaine and if it adds eight pounds,

692
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: then it adds eight pounds. Instead of measuring the actual

693
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: quantity of the drug itself, it's measuring the carrier device, right.

694
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: And one reason they did that was because the weight

695
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: of again LSD when you're looking at a minimum dose

696
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: of about a quarter quarter of a Microgram, that's like

697
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: the weight of two grains of salt. So if you're

698
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: trying to bust people you could be like well, a

699
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: quarter microgram get to a year. So that's why I'll

700
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 1: see why they didn't do that. Just rewrite the law

701
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 1: to reflect the weight of the real drug, because that's

702
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 1: all they'd have to do. I know it was very weird,

703
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: Sam fisted. Can I say that? Yeah, you just did.

704
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 1: But the long and short of that is there are people, uh,

705
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: that dealt acid at a fish show that are in

706
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 1: prison for longer than you know, rapists and murderers. Oh Yeah,

707
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 1: there's a guy who's Um in prison for life without parole.

708
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 1: He's like sixty six now. He's been in there for

709
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: a while because he got busted with some acid. Um

710
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: for life. He's spending his life in jail because he

711
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: had acid with and he's seen violent criminals all around

712
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: him get out of parole. I'm pretty interesting. Uh So,

713
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 1: should we talk about what an LST trip is like? Yeah,

714
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: according to whoever wrote this article, I think this is

715
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: a shane of Freeman joint. Yeah, I thought most of

716
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: this was pretty good. There were a few parts that

717
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: I was like, come on, it was very straightforward and

718
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: logical and a reasonable and rational and myth busting too. Yeah,

719
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: I agree. Uh so the hallucinations that one would have

720
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: on LSD. I think there's there's a bit of a

721
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 1: misnomer there and that some people might think, Oh, you know,

722
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: I saw a pink elephant coming in the room and

723
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: sit down beside me and I thought it was real. Um,

724
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,959
Speaker 1: that's not exactly what they mean by an LSD hallucination.

725
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 1: What they mean more is, Um, you know, I stared

726
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: at the wall and the wall looked like it was

727
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 1: pulsating and breathing, or that painting had a glow around it. Uh.

728
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: And and it's also a case of not oh my God,

729
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: what's happening to my brain, it's Oh my God, this

730
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: acid is awesome or bad or strong, but I know

731
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: that I'm on a drug and it's making all these

732
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: hallucinations happen precisely right. And Yeah, it's a great way

733
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: to say I mean it's it's it's away from the

734
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: classical definition of a hallucination, because you don't and it's

735
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: also you don't, you don't believe what you're seeing is

736
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: like real. You realize that it's the results of the drug,

737
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: although I'm sure some people have taken asset and really

738
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 1: uh thought like you know, it's done such a number

739
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: on the brain that they didn't know that they were

740
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: on the drug, which is why you have your buddy

741
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,879
Speaker 1: there to say no, no, no, that's the asset right. Well,

742
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,919
Speaker 1: that's that's another point that Um Shane of Freeman makes

743
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: in this article is that because of the trip and

744
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: how what a profound impact that has on the brain, Um,

745
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: you typically want to trip with other people who have

746
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: experienced tripping in a very calm place. And you mentioned

747
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: set and setting earlier. I think that was Timothy leary

748
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 1: that came up with that. And set, reminds, refers to

749
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: mindset and setting refers to the setting that that you

750
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 1: and you take your acid in. Right. So you want

751
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: to be in a positive frame of mind or else

752
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: you're going to probably have a bad trip and you

753
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: want to take it in a calm, comfortable setting like

754
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: your home or Shane of Freeman suggests the park. Yeah,

755
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 1: maybe don't. If you're stressed out about finals, maybe don't

756
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: take acid before you go to class to take those finals.

757
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: You're probably going to have a bad time. That would

758
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: betray set and setting in a profound way. Exactly. So

759
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: the trip itself typically lasts for something between maybe seven

760
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 1: to twelve hours. About halfway through you're going to experience

761
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: what's called the peak and the whole thing is going

762
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: to really start about thirty to sixty minutes after you

763
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: take acid. Uh. Yeah, and if you've ever been to

764
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,240
Speaker 1: college and seeing someone taking acid on the dorm floor,

765
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 1: you might hear a lot of like, I don't know

766
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 1: if it's working yet. I don't think it's working yet.

767
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:00,879
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think we got ripped off, man,

768
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: I don't think. And then all of a sudden, yeah,

769
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 1: and then you just shut the door and then you

770
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: go and study like a good student. Right. Physically, Josh,

771
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 1: you might have dilated pupils, increase blood pressure, your body

772
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 1: temperature might raise, you might go a little sweaty and dizzy.

773
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: You might be drowsy. Um, you might be tingly in

774
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: the extremities. Right, your stomach might feel kind of weird,

775
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: have a metallic sensation in your mouth. Yeah, you're probably

776
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:33,720
Speaker 1: not hungry, right. Um, and you may uh, you're seeing

777
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: things in a very weird way. You will probably start

778
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: to notice patterns basically in the air. You could see

779
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 1: a wall breathing, like you said. Um, you're going to

780
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: see things in a different way than you normally do.

781
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: Is the best way to put it. Um. In some

782
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,280
Speaker 1: extreme cases, some people have reported synaesthesia triggering in them,

783
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: where their senses are basically getting mixed up. I wonder

784
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: if they're synistas maybe in that like locked it. Maybe, UM,

785
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: that's entirely possible, because there's a pretty well established school

786
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 1: of thought that says that if you are predisposed to

787
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: a brain based mental illness like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, Um,

788
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: taking LSD can hasten its onset. It's not going to

789
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 1: give you schizophrenia, it's not going to give you bipolar disorder,

790
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 1: but if you were already predisposed to it and the

791
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 1: symptoms hadn't started yet, it could hasten that. True. Emotionally,

792
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: Shanna points out that kind of can run the gamut

793
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 1: from happiness and euphoria. Uh, you love everything, you love everyone.

794
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:43,720
Speaker 1: Everything's magical. That's the key word right there. What's that? Magical? Yeah,

795
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: everything seems magical to you. or it can go the

796
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:51,399
Speaker 1: other way, Um, and you can have, you know, bad

797
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 1: emotions and that's, you know, probably part of the bad trip.

798
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: Go into it in the wrong headspace, like we talked about.

799
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 1: But that's the crux of it's still the magic. Is

800
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: still the crux of it, regardless of whether you're having

801
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 1: a u fork or a dysphoric experience, it still seems

802
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: to have supernatural qualities to it. It's not just normal Um,

803
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 1: having a bad experience, bad mood kind of thing. It's

804
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 1: like the Universe is coming apart and it's it's all

805
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 1: reflecting poorly on my life. Yeah, and I think with

806
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: a lot of hallucinogenics. That's why they're used in in

807
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 1: spiritual and religious ceremonies all over the world, because it's

808
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 1: a profound experience. It can make you very contemplative, uh,

809
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 1: you know the things you think. It can make uh,

810
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: people look inward and discover things about themselves, and so

811
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: that's why I mean like Ayahuasca and Uh Ayahuasca, iyahuska, Iyahuska, iyahuascajuaca,

812
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: and there's somewhere in magic mushrooms. We did a great

813
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: episode on that. Um. They've been used for millennia around

814
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: the Campfire for people to, you know, quote unquote, unlock

815
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: these doors in their mind that they don't readily have

816
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: access to the doors of perception. It's right, uh, if

817
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 1: you are an observer of people on LSD and you're

818
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 1: not on lst, you might think, man, there talking a

819
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: lot about really things that aren't very important, but to

820
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: the person on the LST. It's very important. It's the

821
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 1: most important thing in the world at that moment. The

822
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: person not on LSD and the person on lst will

823
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 1: both mutually scare one another and usually end up in

824
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: different rooms at a party. Uh. And then there is

825
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: the the the time jumps. Um, it just really will

826
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 1: mess with your sense of time, according to research, and

827
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 1: they will say that you might think you've been doing

828
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: something for five minutes and it's been an hour, or

829
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 1: it might be the reverse and you might not have

830
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: any idea how much time is passing. So, whether you're

831
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 1: having a good trip or a bad trip, the one

832
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: thing that all trips are gonna have in common is

833
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 1: that they end within about twelve hours or so. Like

834
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 1: the magical thinking goes away. What you would perceive as

835
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 1: normal reality starts to step back in and Um, there

836
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: may be some sort of emotional or mental hangover, not

837
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,399
Speaker 1: a hangover like when the alcohol brings on, but more

838
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: just like a whoa kind of thing after a profound

839
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 1: emotional mental exercise or being put through the grinder. Um,

840
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: you're going to you will have some sort of you'll

841
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: be awash in something, but you reality will return eventually.

842
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 1: That makes sense that you would have an emotional hangover, chuck,

843
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 1: because LSD basically mimics the shape of serotonin and kind

844
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 1: of hijacks your serotonin receptors. is how it does its thing.

845
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 1: So Sarahtonin is in part responsible for mood regulation, emotions,

846
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So it makes sense that you'd

847
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: be a little wacky the day after you trip on

848
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: lst interesting. Uh. Sometimes you might see, uh I always

849
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 1: say college students, and to keep picking on college students,

850
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: I mean when it happens about of acid trips are

851
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 1: undertaken by college students. Um You might see a college

852
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: student admit themselves to the e R or call an ambulance.

853
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: The doctors like this was a terrible decision on your part. Yeah,

854
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: and you go, why are you talking to me about this?

855
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: Just heal me and the doctor will pat you on

856
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,919
Speaker 1: the head and put you in a in a quiet room.

857
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: And you know, the doctor coming to the hospital while

858
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 1: you're on acid. I got you. But when you get

859
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:40,399
Speaker 1: to the R, the doctor will patch you on the head,

860
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: put you in a nice, quiet dark room that everything

861
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: is okay. They may give you some anti anxiety meds

862
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: or a tranquilizer to sort of chill you out a

863
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: little bit. But basically they just keep you in there

864
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,879
Speaker 1: and tell a nurse like do me a favorite every

865
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 1: hour going there and make sure that guy isn't breaking

866
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 1: some equipment and he'll be fine. And you know, it

867
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: sounds like about six hours. So that's tripping, tripping, one

868
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: on one. Um, you want to take another break before

869
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: we get into like what's going on in your mind? Yeah,

870
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 1: why not? All right, so everybody bear with us. Man. So, Chuck,

871
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: what's going on right now? Yeah, well, you just went

872
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: and pep, you went to a little podcasters room and

873
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: now you're back during the break. That's what's going on. Uh,

874
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,280
Speaker 1: what's going on in the mind? You mean on LSD?

875
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: Funny you should ask h here's the deal. When this

876
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 1: article was written she said researchers aren't a hundred percent

877
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 1: it sure what LSD is doing in the brain. They

878
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 1: still aren't. We have a better idea. that a much

879
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 1: better idea. Um, wells of back a little bit. As

880
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: of two thousand six. Well, yeah, this this one was

881
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: from two thousand eleven. A Yale psychiatrist named Andrew Sewell,

882
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 1: one of the few dudes in the US who uh

883
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: does psychedelic drug research. He's not l seven, he's not square.

884
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: Remember that band else seven? Yeah, yeah, they were good. Remember.

885
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 1: It was them, the breeders and four non blondes all

886
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 1: came out with like great albums all at once and whole.

887
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna take issue with whole. All right, I'll

888
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: take that one back. No, fourn blonds. They have that

889
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: hey song. That whole album was pretty good. Alright, we

890
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:51,839
Speaker 1: one bad. Okay, I was listening to payment the entire time.

891
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 1: You could listen to all of it, all right, I

892
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: was listening in payment to now. I'm just kidding. I

893
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: like dl seven, though. Um, Andrew Sewell, uh, he was

894
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: a Yale ychiatrists, like I said, or maybe still is,

895
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:07,359
Speaker 1: and he said at the time, uh, that it had

896
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 1: to do with the Thalamus. Sensory impressions are routed through

897
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: the Thalamus. Jack's as a gatekeeper. So his theory at

898
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 1: the time, which was built upon research from Franz Volvida, Switzerland,

899
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 1: said that drugs like LSD and psilocybin Um, they toned

900
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 1: down the Thalamus's activity. So, in other words, the gatekeeper

901
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 1: doesn't work. The he liken to a spam filter on

902
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 1: email said it's not working as well. So it lets

903
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: it lets unprocessed information through to consciousness, which is a

904
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: great explanation of it. That was two thousand eleven. But

905
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 1: you got this, you got that from live science, right. Yeah,

906
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 1: I think so. That was a good, good explanation of it. Yeah,

907
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:50,840
Speaker 1: but we have brand new, hot off the press's information

908
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 1: which I which doesn't necessarily contradict that. Right, agreed. So

909
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 1: I think Imperial College of London researchers got their hands

910
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 1: and some acid, gave them to some people and threw

911
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: them in a wonder machine and looked at their brain. Volunteers. Volunteers,

912
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: we should add that had all taken LSD before. This

913
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: wasn't against their will, no, and that they wanted people

914
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 1: that have tripped before and people that knew they could

915
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: handle taking acid and being an M R I machine,

916
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: which we already have mentioned, is weird and loud and Claustrophobic,

917
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:23,839
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, that's a good point. That was very

918
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: wise of those guys. Yes, so the upshot of it

919
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: was that we now have brain scans of people under

920
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 1: the influence of LSD for the first time in human history,

921
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:40,439
Speaker 1: and it's it's really kind of opened up some new

922
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 1: ideas for what's going on on an acid trip. And

923
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: you should see the difference of these, like the comparison

924
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: to control brain scheme and the one on acid. It's

925
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: like you don't even have to read the caption to

926
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 1: know which one's which. Like one is like, okay, I'm

927
00:53:55,680 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: I guess I'm thinking, I'm aware of myself, my toe witches, wow,

928
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: am I going to pay the water bill this month?

929
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 1: And then the other one just like yeah, like that.

930
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: It's amazing what they said. I'm just gonna read it

931
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 1: because they say it better than I ever could. Um

932
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:16,839
Speaker 1: they said LSD simultaneously creates hyper connections across the brain,

933
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 1: allowing the functions of seemingly unrelated regions of the brain

934
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: to ooze into one another. At the same time, the

935
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:26,799
Speaker 1: drug apparently chips away at organization within networks. Like all

936
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 1: of this sounds like right on the money, uh, including

937
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 1: a system the brain differs to at rest called the

938
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 1: default mode network, which normally governs functions of such as

939
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: self reflection, bing, autobiographical memory, bing and mental time travel bing. Bing. Right.

940
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 1: So what? What the what they're saying is is that

941
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,439
Speaker 1: the idea that you see things differently, that you think

942
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 1: about things differently, that you understand concepts like the universe

943
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 1: and reality in your place in it differently than you

944
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 1: normally do, is accurate. It like LSD changes literally the

945
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 1: way you think about the world by changing the connections

946
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: in your brain. Yeah, and notably, they point out, Um,

947
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 1: in the sixties you would always hear a lot about

948
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: the ego and the sense of self. Uh, they think

949
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 1: they have proven through brain scans, the LSD literally makes

950
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 1: you forget your sense of self for that time. Right,

951
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,760
Speaker 1: and and it allows you to do something that LSD

952
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 1: is very famous for, which is makes you feel connected

953
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 1: to the universe, to humanity, to the Gazelle population, to everything,

954
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 1: just fuel connected. And again, it's called Um Ego dissolution, right, yeah,

955
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 1: which is one of the you know, it supports the

956
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 1: notion that when you take acid with somebody you have

957
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 1: this bond with them, uh, perhaps even a lifelong bond.

958
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:58,319
Speaker 1: They also found that the effects, the psychological effects in

959
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: the individual as well, have lasting impacts as well. So

960
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 1: it's not just like you're on the drug, you're under

961
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: the influence of the drug. What you're thinking and feeling, Um,

962
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 1: is temporary. It actually creates a pronounced and most commonly

963
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:18,280
Speaker 1: positive change in the individual's outlook on life, in sense

964
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 1: of well being, which is pretty amazing. But now we

965
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 1: have brain scans of it. The brain scans just in

966
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 1: every way seemed to support everything everyone has always said up,

967
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: not everyone, but the people that weren't making up stories

968
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 1: about acid, about acid, the people who never said, Oh,

969
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,439
Speaker 1: I see a pink elephant in their room, the people

970
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:37,839
Speaker 1: who never went up to somebody and like wave their

971
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: hand in front of their face. Oh Yeah, I saw

972
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 1: somebody do that like a couple of summers ago at

973
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 1: my neighborhood pool. There's this new behaving strangely and I

974
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 1: was like, I wonder, and then somebody went up and

975
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 1: went like that too. I was like, oh no, I know.

976
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: So super promising research and I think it's awesome that

977
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 1: they're looking into this stuff again. Um, do you know,

978
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 1: are they doing this in the United States? That all yet?

979
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,439
Speaker 1: Because it didn't they sort of allow it again. Yes,

980
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 1: three years ago there was a two Um study with

981
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: like twelve terminally ill patients with cancer in the United States,

982
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 1: but it's still like very small groups of scientists are

983
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 1: probably working on like like twelve oh yeah, yeah, and

984
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 1: they're using very small study populations. But the results that

985
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: they're finding, like in this case, um, that the cancer

986
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 1: patients reported, even twelve months on, a more positive outlook

987
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 1: on life, despite the fact that their life was coming

988
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 1: to an end prematurely, in their opinion, um, because of

989
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 1: the acid. They're finding, like all of these, the studies

990
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: that are being carried out are are finding such sweeping

991
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 1: Um conclusions about the potential for LSD to positively impact

992
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 1: people's lives that, Um, they're all of them. Are Like

993
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: we need more studies, more these, more studies, we need

994
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 1: more people involved in I'm like, let's get back to

995
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 1: studying this, which we left off of like forty years

996
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: ago for no good reason. And in forty and fifty

997
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 1: years ago is when the scientists thought like they were

998
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 1: on the cusp of making some real breakthroughs. When everything

999
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 1: gets shut down. Um, and back then, like there the

1000
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 1: way they do the studies now. It seems like our

1001
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 1: way better. They didn't have controls back then, but they

1002
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 1: didn't use controls in most of these experiments. Timothy Leary

1003
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 1: was carrying out these studies. I mean, give me a break.

1004
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about acid flashbacks. This, yeah, I

1005
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: mean Shanna calls it very controversial among LSD users and researchers. Um,

1006
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: I'M gonna say false outright, because there's zero evidence that

1007
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 1: it's a real thing and that the body actually retains

1008
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 1: some bit of LSD. But you've heard, you know, the rumors,

1009
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 1: like it's in your spinal fluid. Uh, it's in your

1010
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 1: fatty deposits, and year, years later you can be sitting

1011
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 1: in a meeting and have a full on hallucinatory acid flashback. Right.

1012
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 1: There's no mechanism that this could be carried out by

1013
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 1: where there's like just yeah, like your your body stores

1014
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 1: some acid for later and you start to trip again. Suddenly.

1015
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 1: There are people who have reported it, Um, but it's

1016
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 1: entirely possible that they're mentally all right, or it's entirely

1017
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 1: possible they're suffering from something called hallucinogen. Hallucinogen, hallucinogen, persisting

1018
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 1: perceptive disorder. This sounds pretty awful if you ask me. Yeah,

1019
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 1: and this I did a little more research. Apparently this

1020
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 1: is linked to persistent LSD use. Um, someone who's done

1021
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: a lot of acid and it is even then it's

1022
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 1: still not due to a build up of LSD molecules

1023
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 1: in the body. So what? Maybe they rearranged their neural

1024
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 1: connections well where they also predisposed to mental illness? Well,

1025
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times it's as current. Medical

1026
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 1: opinion is divided as to the OS. UH, some people

1027
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 1: think it's a form of PTSD. Other people think there

1028
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 1: were changes in the brain morphology because they did so

1029
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 1: much acid. But it's still not like the old story,

1030
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 1: like you had acid in your body from a trip

1031
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: long ago. Now he's just reactivated, just like burned out

1032
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 1: sitting in the corner. Yeah, and supposedly where this was

1033
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 1: all born. At an educational meeting for a D A

1034
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 1: agents in San Francisco, a speaker said, uh, he suggested

1035
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 1: that the rerelease of LSD hidden in the bodies of

1036
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 1: users led to untimely psychotic flashbacks. And no one has

1037
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 1: tape of this, but there are people that wrote about

1038
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: it and all evidence points to like this is where

1039
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 1: the acid flashback myth. Myth was born from this one speaker.

1040
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: That's that's really interesting. You know, sway to go, Dude.

1041
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 1: So Um again we were talking about like there's a

1042
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 1: lot of hysteria surrounding lst. People have died on LSD.

1043
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 1: What's what's that? Issue is, well, a couplefold. One, is

1044
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 1: there a lethal dose of LSD? That's never been proven.

1045
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 1: Despite the millions of acid trips that people have taken,

1046
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 1: it's never been conclusively shown that LSD led to the

1047
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 1: death of a human being. Yeah, I would assume, like

1048
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:21,440
Speaker 1: there's a lethal dose of water, so I would assume

1049
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 1: if you drank five gallons of LSD you might die.

1050
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 1: But then it it's so out of the realm of

1051
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:30,520
Speaker 1: believability it's just like why even talk about it? Right.

1052
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 1: And there have been cases of people ingesting massive amounts

1053
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 1: of LSD. So the minimum dose is a quarter Microgram,

1054
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 1: which is Um like twenty five thousands of a Graham,

1055
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 1: I believe. Is that like what an asset hit is

1056
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 1: these days? I think it's. That's about a half of

1057
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 1: a hit. It's a mild hit from what I understand.

1058
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 1: So if you go split sease with your girlfriend at

1059
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: the fish concert, then you'd have like yeah, yeah, that

1060
01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 1: would be that kind of dose, I guess right. So, Um,

1061
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 1: the the that's a that's a very small amount, like

1062
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 1: thousandths of a gram. Some people have taken like no

1063
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:16,959
Speaker 1: thousands of a milligram. I'm sorry, that's the that's the dose.

1064
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 1: Some people have taken milligrams of this stuff accidentally. Um,

1065
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 1: there was a group of people in and at a

1066
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 1: party and they thought they were snorting cocaine, but it

1067
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 1: turned out they were snorting powdered LSD. Boy Oh boy.

1068
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: And One person was shown to have had seven, have

1069
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 1: ingested seven milligrams of LSD. So That's like seventy thousand

1070
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 1: times the minimum dose, something like that. Yeah, and I

1071
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 1: think this is actually in the Western Journal of Medicine

1072
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:49,560
Speaker 1: and they most of the people just boom. It knocked

1073
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 1: him out immediately and they passed out. The people that

1074
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 1: were awake, well, everyone went to the hospital because it was,

1075
01:02:57,080 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 1: by all accounts, an overdose of LSD. But every everyone

1076
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 1: was fine. So that's what it was. That's like seven

1077
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 1: thousand micrograms and a minimum dose is a quarter of

1078
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 1: a microgram. So yeah, like twelve hours later they were

1079
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 1: fine and twelve years later they, five of them were

1080
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 1: examined for years for long term issues, Um, and no

1081
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 1: one had any issues at that party, at least right.

1082
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 1: There's another one, another person who shows up in one study.

1083
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what the case was around it, but

1084
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 1: the person survived in justing forty milligrams, which is forty

1085
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 1: micrograms Um, and apparently survived. So so the toxic dose,

1086
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 1: the LD fifty dose, which is where half of the

1087
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:47,480
Speaker 1: people who took that dose would be expected to die. Um,

1088
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:49,760
Speaker 1: it's never been established. We don't know what it is,

1089
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:54,440
Speaker 1: but it's it's huge, it's massive. So the pharmacological deaths

1090
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: from LSD have probably never happened. What what is what

1091
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 1: has been documented? His behavioral deaths. People who um took risks,

1092
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 1: potentially that Um they wouldn't normally have under the influence

1093
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 1: of LSD. If he went swimming in a place, they

1094
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 1: wouldn't have normally gone swimming. Maybe jump from a building,

1095
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 1: not because they thought they could fly or anything like that,

1096
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 1: but because I think I can make it to the

1097
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:22,920
Speaker 1: Ledge and go party over there, whereas if they were

1098
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:25,960
Speaker 1: under normal conditions they wouldn't have engaged in that behavior.

1099
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: So the poor judgment basically right. But again those are

1100
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:32,160
Speaker 1: pretty few and far between, although when they do happen

1101
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 1: there there tragic yeah, and there there are also cases

1102
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 1: of like heart attacks and strokes. But Um, with something

1103
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 1: like that there's usually other drugs involved and you can't

1104
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 1: conclusively say like the LSD caused the heart attack. There's

1105
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 1: also apparently no documented, confirmed, confirmed report of somebody committing

1106
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 1: suicide under the influence of LSD. It's more like art

1107
01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 1: link letters daughter somebody who had taken LSD before and

1108
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:03,920
Speaker 1: the l their their previous LSD use was blamed for it.

1109
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 1: But there's, from what I could find, not a documented

1110
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 1: case of someone who was on LSD and went nuts

1111
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:16,080
Speaker 1: and killed themselves, and even then I think uh it

1112
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 1: was it's a that's a difficult thing to prove that

1113
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 1: something caused something because then you start digging into that

1114
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:27,040
Speaker 1: person's UH closet and find out that they were suicidal anyway,

1115
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:30,439
Speaker 1: and this was a long time coming. Um, who knows?

1116
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 1: It's it's a tough thing to prove. The upshot of

1117
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:39,440
Speaker 1: it is that the documented evidence of the positive effects

1118
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 1: that LSD can have on the human psyche Um vastly

1119
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:48,520
Speaker 1: out number the recognized tragic events that have taken place

1120
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:50,720
Speaker 1: as a result of LSD. Can I read this one

1121
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 1: part about heavy LSD users, because I thought this is

1122
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 1: kind of funny. Heavy LSD users can develop profound social

1123
01:05:56,640 --> 01:06:00,080
Speaker 1: problems completely ruin their sleep cycles and lose entry just

1124
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: an eating and personal hygiene. They turn into hippies, is

1125
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 1: what they're saying. Yeah, and and she says something I

1126
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 1: do take issue with that there's no one and and

1127
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:13,320
Speaker 1: Rehab for LSD. That's not true. There are people in

1128
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 1: Rehab for LSD. It's not common, because she rightly points

1129
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 1: out that when you do LSD and then you do

1130
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 1: it again the next day, you and then the next

1131
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,040
Speaker 1: day and the next day, you become uh, you build

1132
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 1: up atolerance really fast and you just need more and

1133
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 1: more LSD and it doesn't work after a very short time. Right. Well,

1134
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:37,160
Speaker 1: like I said, things normalize and you don't get the

1135
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:43,680
Speaker 1: experience you're looking for. Um. So, like more most other drugs,

1136
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:45,520
Speaker 1: it's not the kind of drug that you usually see

1137
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 1: people doing a lot of day in and day out

1138
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 1: all the time. Right. And what she's also saying is

1139
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 1: there's no no means for becoming psychologically or physically dependent

1140
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 1: on it, which makes it a non addictive drug, although

1141
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:02,440
Speaker 1: the feds have under schedule one, which means that it

1142
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 1: has a high likelihood for abuse addiction and that it

1143
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:11,880
Speaker 1: has no medical usefulness whatsoever. So both of those two, um,

1144
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:15,680
Speaker 1: but that's false for for both, Um, both of the

1145
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 1: reasons that, yeah, both of the criteria for schedule one drug. Um.

1146
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 1: She also points out, and this is something I never considered,

1147
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:24,920
Speaker 1: but I think it makes a lot of sense. Um,

1148
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 1: the effects of LSD aren't dependable, like you never know

1149
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 1: what you're gonna get, and addicts crave that dependability. They

1150
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:33,240
Speaker 1: want to know, like cocaine will do the same thing

1151
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 1: to me every time, that bottle of Jack Daniels will

1152
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 1: do the same thing to me every time, or that cigarette. Yeah,

1153
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 1: but Um, I don't know what I'm going to get

1154
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 1: out of acids. So it just doesn't lend itself to

1155
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 1: that sort of addictive nature. Pretty interesting. Plus it's also

1156
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:49,960
Speaker 1: further interesting that a lot of people have used I

1157
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 1: don't want to say a lot, I have no idea

1158
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 1: the number, but I know it's been used in the past.

1159
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 1: People have used LSD and other psychedelic drugs to quit

1160
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 1: addictions like cigarette smoking, like alcoholism and Um again, you

1161
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 1: mentioned our can you treat mental illness with psychedelics episode,

1162
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 1: which was awesome, but we talked about that in that

1163
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 1: that episode. Two. All right, Josh, let's I know this

1164
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:13,960
Speaker 1: is a long one. Plus we got the Hodgman bit.

1165
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 1: This is gonna be our first two hour show, oh

1166
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 1: my gosh. But we can't finish the show unless we

1167
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:22,759
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the cultural history. Uh, notably

1168
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:26,599
Speaker 1: someone you mentioned, Timothy Leary. Dr Timothy Leary actually worked

1169
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 1: at Harvard almost single handedly is responsible for the initial

1170
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 1: turn against LSD by the public and science he took.

1171
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 1: He took what was a legitimate field of inquiry and

1172
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 1: um made it completely illegitimate. Like he's almost single handedly

1173
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:51,400
Speaker 1: to blame for acid being first science turning its back

1174
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:53,400
Speaker 1: on acid. Yeah, he had he had a loud voice

1175
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 1: and talked about a lot of like Hippie dippy things

1176
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:59,080
Speaker 1: that people didn't like. Scientists didn't like them associating it

1177
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:03,080
Speaker 1: with LSD. He founded a church where LSD was the

1178
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 1: sacrament of it, the League for spiritual discovery. Previous to that, though,

1179
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 1: at Harvard, he and his colleague Richard Albert Um we're

1180
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:12,400
Speaker 1: actually trying to study it a little more legitimately. Then

1181
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 1: he got fired from Harvard and sixty three and that's

1182
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:18,559
Speaker 1: when he sort of went full bore towards uh, you know,

1183
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:22,679
Speaker 1: tune in, turn in, drop out, which he regrets that phrase. He, he,

1184
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 1: and he he should not be blamed for that, because

1185
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 1: he said later on that he did not mean like

1186
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:30,880
Speaker 1: drop out of society and like don't he said that

1187
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:34,600
Speaker 1: it was taken like, Um, that people's people took it

1188
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:38,040
Speaker 1: to mean get stoned and abandoned all constructive activity and

1189
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:39,640
Speaker 1: that that's not at all what he meant. That he

1190
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:41,960
Speaker 1: went when he was saying turn on, he was saying like,

1191
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 1: you know, turn on your brain. Yeah, turn on your brain,

1192
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:48,920
Speaker 1: like turn on your potential, like like let's get things going, Um,

1193
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 1: tune in to uh, interact harmoniously with the world around you.

1194
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 1: And then drop out was to become self reliant, not

1195
01:09:57,240 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 1: dependent on the man. or so it it was basically an

1196
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 1: after schools special that he was trying to make sure, basically,

1197
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:06,599
Speaker 1: the more you know. And it was taken, you know,

1198
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:12,760
Speaker 1: people take things like water, like they're looking for the

1199
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:14,960
Speaker 1: path of least resistance in a lot of ways. So

1200
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:17,839
Speaker 1: they took it to mean like, Oh, it's great, Timothy

1201
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 1: Leary just gave us all license to like not do

1202
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:23,960
Speaker 1: anything useful and didn't really upset all the crew cuts

1203
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:27,320
Speaker 1: over there who are carrying everybody right now. Then there

1204
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 1: was kin Kisi, UM, author of many books, uh, notably

1205
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:35,679
Speaker 1: one flew with the CUCKOO's nest, Um, which that alone

1206
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:40,920
Speaker 1: makes him a great yeah, or just like a major

1207
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 1: contributor to popular culture, or culture even yeah, just that agreed. UH,

1208
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:54,600
Speaker 1: he was notable for being a part of the Mary Pranksters, which, Um,

1209
01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:57,400
Speaker 1: it's documented in the great, Great Tom Wolf Book, the

1210
01:10:57,439 --> 01:11:00,920
Speaker 1: electric Koolait asset tests, that his favorite books required reading

1211
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:04,240
Speaker 1: really good Um, and it documents in Mary prankster was

1212
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:09,120
Speaker 1: basically a school bus, uh, psychedelically painted, full of hippies

1213
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:13,280
Speaker 1: driving around with gallons and gallons of acid at the

1214
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:16,519
Speaker 1: time when the cops had no idea what acid was, yeah,

1215
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:20,120
Speaker 1: or when it was not yet illegal. Yeah, but he

1216
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:22,280
Speaker 1: got into acid because of the CIA. He was a

1217
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 1: volunteer in the late fifties to dose himself and uh,

1218
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:29,839
Speaker 1: he was, what did she call him here? An acid populace.

1219
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:32,240
Speaker 1: So he was one of those that thought everybody needs

1220
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 1: to do this and it will be a different world. Uh.

1221
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:39,920
Speaker 1: And then, UH, finally, Mr Owsley, Stanley, all the dead

1222
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: heads out there just went. You about time. They were

1223
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:49,080
Speaker 1: so mad. While they never get mad, but mad because

1224
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:54,720
Speaker 1: they they have a profound social interaction problems. He was

1225
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:57,840
Speaker 1: a chemist who was in hate Ashbury and San Francisco,

1226
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:00,360
Speaker 1: studied at cal Berkeley and he was like, you know what,

1227
01:12:01,400 --> 01:12:04,080
Speaker 1: I'm taking a lot of bad LSD and so I'm

1228
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:06,639
Speaker 1: gonna Start making it myself. He was a self talk chemist.

1229
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:10,280
Speaker 1: Did you say that? Yeah, and he got really, really

1230
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:12,439
Speaker 1: good at it. And owsley L S D became the

1231
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 1: standard for good, clean acid in the nineteen sixties and

1232
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 1: seventies and they used them at the acid tests which

1233
01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:24,640
Speaker 1: Um Ken Kesi used to hold in San Francisco and

1234
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 1: the grateful dead used to play. And osley Stanley was

1235
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 1: also the sound engineer. Did He create the wall of sound?

1236
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:34,479
Speaker 1: Was that him his doing? No, that was Phil Specter.

1237
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:37,160
Speaker 1: But he was the dead's original sound man and what

1238
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 1: he got known for was he was one of the

1239
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 1: first people to mixed concerts live and in Stereo and

1240
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 1: plug right into the board. So all those old, you know,

1241
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:51,719
Speaker 1: deadheads love to trade the old bootlegs. Those bootlegs sounds

1242
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 1: so good because of Owsley um, because he was, you know,

1243
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 1: he was an innovator as a sound man and he

1244
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:01,920
Speaker 1: was one of the first investors in the financially and

1245
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:06,320
Speaker 1: because he was a millionaire, Alice tea millionaire. PA said

1246
01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:08,360
Speaker 1: he made like ten thousand or ten million hits of

1247
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:11,920
Speaker 1: acid in his lifetime. Uh, he gave away a lot

1248
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:14,960
Speaker 1: of it, though. There was one it was a sit in,

1249
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:17,040
Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was called, where he gave

1250
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:20,479
Speaker 1: out and by all accounts three hundred thousand people took

1251
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:23,720
Speaker 1: acid all in one place. Wow, where I had to

1252
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:28,639
Speaker 1: be San Francisco. Uh. And he also designed the steely

1253
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:34,200
Speaker 1: with Bob Thomas. The very famous lightning bolt skull logo

1254
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 1: on the grateful dead album steal your face right off

1255
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:42,559
Speaker 1: of your head was designed by Owsley. Did Not know that? Yep,

1256
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:45,760
Speaker 1: and now all the dead heads are going. Okay, he

1257
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 1: mentioned the steely. I'm sure we got something two and

1258
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 1: a half hours in. Um and acids making a bit

1259
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,000
Speaker 1: of a comeback in San Francisco to among all the

1260
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 1: little technocrats that took that town over and they're tripping

1261
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:03,040
Speaker 1: and stuff, not really tripping their micro dosing there. Basically

1262
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:07,559
Speaker 1: Albert Hoffman had the idea that Um, taking minuscule amounts

1263
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:12,640
Speaker 1: of LSD, could improve cognitive function. So basically they're they're

1264
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:15,320
Speaker 1: getting better at coding. They're taking it and going to

1265
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:20,400
Speaker 1: work and Um, not fully tripping, but just having it's

1266
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:24,160
Speaker 1: having some effects. Supposedly that's like the new thing with acid. Yeah,

1267
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:26,760
Speaker 1: and that is another reason I want to punch San

1268
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 1: Francisco in the face. You're not the town you used

1269
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:32,000
Speaker 1: to be. So and they all know it, so don't

1270
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 1: get mad at me. They it's true. They there's also

1271
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:38,840
Speaker 1: some other stuff chuck like. Apparently, if you buy LSD

1272
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:43,320
Speaker 1: these days there's a really high likelihood that you're actually

1273
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:48,240
Speaker 1: getting something called ND Bomb Dash N B o m e.

1274
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:52,640
Speaker 1: is it just another chemical? It's like a much more

1275
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:58,200
Speaker 1: intense psychedelic that's very similar to LSD, but it does

1276
01:14:58,280 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 1: have show own toxic effects, like people actually have died

1277
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:05,519
Speaker 1: from overdoses on this stuff thinking that they had LSD,

1278
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:08,759
Speaker 1: which is not cool. Man. No, you don't sell something

1279
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:11,920
Speaker 1: saying it's one thing, stay away from the Orange Sunshine Um.

1280
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:15,559
Speaker 1: And then there's also some other thing called one P LSD,

1281
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:22,240
Speaker 1: and it's LSD with an extra pro pion Il bond

1282
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:26,040
Speaker 1: that technically makes it legal that. Apparently it's open season

1283
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:31,200
Speaker 1: on the Internet with that stuff right now. Camaloi, the

1284
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:33,559
Speaker 1: great comedian and friend of the show, has a great

1285
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:37,960
Speaker 1: bit about some designer drug which is heroin and uh,

1286
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:45,000
Speaker 1: Thailan al or Thailan AL, Cold Medicine, Oh, codeine. Yeah,

1287
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:48,080
Speaker 1: like with heroin. Okay, it's just funny. He's like you're

1288
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:53,080
Speaker 1: already doing heroin. It's like the heroine is enough. Thailand. Yeah,

1289
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:56,519
Speaker 1: it's just this. It just seems like, Um, well, these

1290
01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:58,840
Speaker 1: are like waxing nostalgic for the good old days of

1291
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:02,200
Speaker 1: just I said. But it seems like if people are

1292
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:05,040
Speaker 1: dying on something they think is as said, then maybe

1293
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:07,479
Speaker 1: you're not doing it right. There you go, so chuck.

1294
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:10,880
Speaker 1: I think that's it. That's LSD. Man. This could have

1295
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:13,360
Speaker 1: been a two parter. It could have been, but we're

1296
01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:17,519
Speaker 1: not greedy. We stayed true. Just one UH. If you

1297
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:20,479
Speaker 1: wanted more about LSD, just type those three letters into

1298
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:22,519
Speaker 1: the search bar how stuff works dot com and it

1299
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: will bring up this great article. Uh. And if you

1300
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:27,080
Speaker 1: want to get in touch with this in the meantime,

1301
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 1: you can tweet to us at S Y S K podcast.

1302
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:32,679
Speaker 1: You can join us on Facebook, DOT COM. Slash stuff.

1303
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:34,479
Speaker 1: You should know. You can send us an email to

1304
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:36,920
Speaker 1: stuff podcast at how stuff works dot com and has

1305
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:39,040
Speaker 1: always joined us at our home on the web. Stuff

1306
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:43,760
Speaker 1: you should know. Dot Com stuff you should know is

1307
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:46,640
Speaker 1: a production of I heart radio. For more podcasts my

1308
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:50,120
Speaker 1: heart radio, visit the IHEART radio APP, apple podcasts or

1309
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows