1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Danny and Samantha. I don't go to Stephane. 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: Never told you protection of I Heart Radio. I just 3 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: like randomly thought of a question for this one, and 4 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to ask it. But I don't want to 5 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: answer because I don't have an answer unless you already 6 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,159 Speaker 1: have a good one. We're gonna write a memoir. What 7 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: would you call your memoir? So I actually had the 8 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: back and forth about different titles, and I can't tell 9 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: you because I've written them down. Something with like the 10 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: fact that I have an undoing or untangling and or 11 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 1: an unraveling of swords, the unraveling of Samantha of some sort, 12 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: that that was my title, just because it was like 13 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: my memoir would have a lot to do with trying 14 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: to piece together everything, so you have to undo everything 15 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: to come back to everything. Glut the way I learned 16 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: are the beliefs that I had growing up and then 17 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: having to undo that. That would have been a big 18 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: piece of mom in war. So I actually do have 19 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: an answer, not an exact answer, with something along the 20 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: lines answer, I love it. I think that's great. Um, 21 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: I really don't have an answer. I will say a 22 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: lot of that. I'm a very big title person. I 23 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: think we've discussed this before, Samantha. You and I both 24 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: love a good title, and usually my titles are very 25 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: I don't want to say heavy handed, but they're like 26 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 1: dramatic and a lot of the things I like, um 27 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: pawns also but dramatic. But as we got said, this 28 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: fiction like a lot of the and we'll talk about 29 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: them as we do them. But a lot of the 30 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: times I name I use something that is usually in 31 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: reference to technology, but I'll use it as like something 32 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: deeper about the human condition. Yeah. So we have one 33 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: coming up called deep dream, and that's in reference to 34 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: the Google Deep Dream where you can feed it images 35 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: and it tries to it makes sense of what they 36 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: are and if you go look it up, it looks 37 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: like the most trippy dream you've ever been on this Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 38 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: So it would be something like that. I'm going to 39 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: think about it to return to later. So before we 40 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: get into this one, which is a book club at 41 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: a memoir, if you're confused as why we're talking about that, 42 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: I didn't want to put a quick trigger warning here. 43 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: We're not gonna go too deep into anything, but um, 44 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: we are going to be talking about a little bit 45 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: about suicidality, mental health, abuse, and trauma. We're also going 46 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: to touch a little bit on UM disordered eating eating 47 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:38,399 Speaker 1: disorders and UM death death in the family. UM. So 48 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: if you're not in a good space for that UM, 49 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: you know, maybe come back later or maybe skip this one, 50 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: because today we are talking about heart Berries teen, a 51 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: memoir by Therese Marie Mayatt Um. It is the story 52 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: of Mayatt and her personal journey grappling with trauma after 53 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: a dysfunctional childhood growing up as an indigenous woman in 54 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: the Sea Bird Island Band Reservation of the North Pacific. 55 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: She was hospitalized with PTSD and bipolar to disorder and 56 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: given a journal to write out her trauma, and this 57 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: journal became Heartberries. A lot of it is addressed to 58 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: her lover or ex lever I Guess Casey, and it 59 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: is a tribute to her mother and activists and social 60 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: worker and examination on a relationship with her father who 61 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: was an abusive alcoholic artist UM who was also Bernard, 62 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: and an examination of love in the face of shame UM. 63 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: And the writing is really really beautiful and poignant and 64 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: painful and Millie braw it does. It gives you that 65 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: vibe if you're reading somebody's personal journal. This is probably 66 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: one of my favorite writing techniques in that the address 67 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: and the personal, first person content. I love that type 68 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: of conversational writing, which is probably what I align with 69 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: the most. Beau. I'm not going to compare to this 70 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: award winning novelist at all or author in any way whatsoever, 71 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: but this would be the way that I write. She 72 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: does it in such a way that it digs into 73 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: my heart. I don't know the way of saying that, 74 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: in just feeling like, yeah, I thought these things. Uh. 75 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 1: There's conversations in there where she talks and compares herself 76 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: to white women, and even though I'm not native or indigenous, 77 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: I am Asian and grew up in a white world, 78 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: and I felt it. I felt that pain. Um. But 79 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,239 Speaker 1: outside of that, just the way she has this inner 80 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: dialogue that comes out onto pages. It is glorious and 81 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: I think it's so raw and so beautiful. But yeah, 82 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: it is such a compelling piece, um, if you are 83 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: in a good place, because it is fairly traumatic her 84 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: life has She's gone through some some things, and she 85 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: writes in such a way that you feel it. Yeah. Yeah, 86 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: it's a it's a very it's a quick read. It's 87 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 1: a I wouldn't say difficult, but it is like emotionally taxing, 88 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 1: emotionally training, I can put it down. It felt very electrifying. 89 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: But it was one of those things where it's like, 90 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: because of the way she wrote, she packs so much 91 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: into like every word in every sentence, and it's all 92 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: it's so condensed, but so much is being communicated in 93 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: everything that it felt like just alive almost in like 94 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: electric and like I don't know where this is going 95 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: to go, but it feels I don't know if scary 96 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: is the right word, but like you're you're just on 97 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: edge because yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but very very effective. 98 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: And I thought it was really powerful and beautiful and 99 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,799 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it. From NPR quote an illuminating account 100 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: of grief abused and the complex nature of the native 101 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: experience at once raw and achingly beautiful. And yeah, as 102 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: you read it, you see my it sometimes fragile mental 103 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: state reflected in the writing, but you also see healing 104 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: and a reclamation. Yeah, And as I said it, it 105 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: is largely directed to casey uh and kind of like 106 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: their relationship and her sort of grappling with all of 107 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: these things around that I have to wonder with that 108 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: because she it is all these are real people. I 109 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: went through half the book researching if there was reaction 110 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: to her writing, because she is brutally honest even and 111 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: we'll talk about it, i'm sure later on. But there's 112 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: a small section about Paul Simon, the musician, and the 113 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 1: way she like paints him. It's not ugly, he doesn't 114 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 1: do anything ugly, but it's just very direct about like, hey, 115 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: white man profited, good job. And I had to go like, 116 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: does he have a reaction to this award winning top 117 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: you know, tin book memoir? I didn't find one, just 118 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: so you know, but I did wonder because, especially when 119 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: she's talking about Casey, she is open and completely raw 120 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: about how she's feeling, and it's familiar for any woman 121 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: who felt gaslighted in any way and or secondary in 122 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: any way and in a relationship. It feels so real. 123 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: But I won't have to wonder, like I wonder what 124 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: his thoughts are? Did he read doesn't think oh yeah, yeah, 125 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: we're gonna get into that with this one, And like 126 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: with many where we're not you know, we're neither of 127 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: us our Native American women in a part of the 128 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: indigenous experience. We're gonna use a lot of quotes, and 129 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: this one, I feel like I say this with all 130 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: of them and it's always true, but there were so 131 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: many that I was like, all of this is quotable, 132 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: this is this is why everyone should read it. Everyone 133 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: should read it, and and people are singing its praises rightfully. 134 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: So it's won a lot of awards. It's on so 135 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: many must read list, including Emma Watson's. And I put 136 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: that out there because I do. I've read a lot 137 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: of books because of that list. So oh yeah, but 138 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: very very very well deserved um. And yes, we highly 139 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: highly recommend it. So yes, we are going to include 140 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: a lot of quotes in this one around some pretty 141 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: central themes. And one of the themes right at A 142 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: eight is storytelling. So here's a quote that's at the beginning. 143 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: My story was maltreated. I was a teenager when I 144 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: got married. I wanted to save home. Despair isn't a 145 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: conduit for love. We ruined each other and then my 146 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: mother died. I had to leave the reservation, I had 147 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: to get my d a d I left my home 148 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: because welfare made me choose between necessities I used to 149 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,679 Speaker 1: check and some cash I saved for a ticket away. 150 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: I knew I would arrive with a deficit. That's when 151 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: I started to illustrate my story and when it became 152 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: a means of survival. The ugly truth is that I 153 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: lost my son Isodora in court the Hague Convention. The 154 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: ugly truth of that truth is that I gave birth 155 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: to my second son as I was losing my first, 156 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: My court date and my delivery aligned in the hospital, 157 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: they told me that my first son would go with 158 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: his father. Yeah, so that's kind of right at the beginning, 159 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: setting up all of this trauma, all of this pain, 160 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: and throughout you hear kind of this idea of, you know, 161 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: my story was maltreated and the story of my women 162 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: in my family especially has been maltreated. And seeing all 163 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: of this trauma play out and then how people reacted 164 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: to it, and kind of I think another really big 165 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: theme throughout this is shame, and a lot of the 166 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: shame around again, she does so much, was like very 167 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: little words, so effective and so amazing, But throughout you guys, 168 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: get this at the beginning, and then throughout you get 169 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: kind of more of the story behind it and the 170 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: pain and trauma that it caused her and really just 171 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: the sad, the sad situation behind it and all the 172 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: all the reasons behind it. Yeah, and again this does 173 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: kind of build up her own understanding of family that 174 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: I had really come to terms with family and where 175 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: she is with her mental health and what she has 176 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: to do for herself, for her family um as well 177 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: as finding love in the midst of all of that 178 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: with not so great situations and admitting that these are 179 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: not great situations. She is ridiculously vulnerable within her book, 180 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: and I applaud that honesty in itself. And yeah, she 181 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: does call out a lot of the fact that government 182 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: in the system really screwed her over as an Indigenous 183 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: woman and has continued to do so and has been 184 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: doing so for a while. So that's also another thing 185 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 1: that you have to remember. She continues, it's too ugly 186 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: to speak the story. It sounds like a beggar. How 187 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: could misfortune follow me so well? And why did I 188 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: choose it? Every time I learned how to make a 189 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: honey reduction of the ugly sentences, still my voice cracks. 190 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: I packed my baby and left my reservation. I came 191 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: from the mountains to an infinite and flat brown to 192 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: bury my grief. I left because I was hungry. And 193 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: my first writing classes, my professor told me that the 194 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: human condition was misery. I'm a river widened by misery, 195 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: and the potency of my language is more than human. 196 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: It's an Indian condition to be proud of survival but 197 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: reluctant to call it resilience. Resilience seems ascribed to a 198 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: human conditioning in white people. Yeah, and I think there's 199 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: so many things that she touched on just there that 200 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: I'm like, Yeah, I feel as we've talked about recently, 201 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: just even in sort of our more superficial take on laughter. 202 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: But the issues that you're talking about, we're serious. Where you, 203 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: as a marginalized person, you feel this like it's too 204 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:37,719 Speaker 1: ugly to speak the story, or like you feel it 205 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: pressure to to make people more comfortable, and that like, 206 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: no one wants to hear this because it's too sad. 207 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,119 Speaker 1: No one wants to hear this because it's too painful 208 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: or will make them uncomfortable. And how often marginalized people 209 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: have had to do that and had to think about that, 210 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: and to have her like you know, trying to make 211 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: I love the language she used to like make a honey, 212 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: reduction of ugly sentences more palatable, or so that you 213 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: will listen, Like it's painful, but you've got to listen 214 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: because what's going on. I heard use when she talks 215 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: about the comparison to being a white writer or a 216 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: white creative and talking about resilience is really pertinent to 217 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,839 Speaker 1: the entirety of the story she actually wrote. Also talking 218 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: about how she felt like writers before her seemed to 219 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: do the work of looking and being indigenous, so we 220 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: could look through it to herself, meaning herself obviously in 221 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: that is taken this much for her to be able 222 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: to talk about her indigenous background, but even still, it 223 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: doesn't feel enough to be able to compare to those 224 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: in the white community who are doing this and are 225 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: praised left and right. And for her to do this 226 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: is a big risk because we also know in marsin 227 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: Law's communities, when we talk about mental health is not 228 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: seen in a in a positive light to seek out 229 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: to talk about it outright, So for her to talk 230 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: about this, she's like, this is not what this is 231 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: what white people do. Essentially, in this conversation, and I 232 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: found that very interesting in the whole thing, Like yeah, 233 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: and when we talk about it, when we look at 234 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: the depth of it, it seems so much harder because 235 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: she is of of the indigenous background, and it's it's 236 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: that more risk that she is taking in being this 237 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: upfront and honest, right, And just that that is a 238 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: recurring theme as well of like these sort of positive 239 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:36,439 Speaker 1: spins that white artists get of, like things like this 240 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: of negative or hurtful things versus like the oh you 241 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: seem to be complaining too much or oh you should 242 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: you need help or like which uld be true, but 243 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: it's also very dismissive of what of what she's writing 244 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: and being vulnerable with. And that's just something that I 245 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: kept thinking about too, is like how we will often 246 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: law the art of generally white men if it's you know, 247 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: vulnerable or whatever in that vein, whereas oftentimes with women 248 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: and then every other intersection within that marginalized intersection within 249 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: that be like you know, it's yeah, feminist, bust kill 250 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: or whatever like yeah. So I think that was definitely 251 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: throughout and is totally on point. Um. So another thing 252 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: a big piece of this book when it comes to 253 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: themes and this is a lot in in one idea, 254 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: but like grief and trauma and mental health and racism 255 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: and sexualization and abuse and shame, and I would add 256 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: in in there like racial trauma and generational trauma because 257 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: you do get to see, like her relationship with her 258 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: grandmother and her memories of her grandmother and also of 259 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: her mother, and then you've got her and then you've 260 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: got her children and her dad, but just all these 261 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: traumas that have impacted them and then impacted her in turn. 262 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: So here's a quote. I knew I was not well. 263 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: I thought of the first healer, who was just a boy. 264 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: My friend Denise told me the story. She called him 265 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: Heartberry Boy are O Doman. His name means strawberry in 266 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: the language. Denise and I struggled and came up together. 267 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: She named her son after the boy. The people in 268 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: his village were sick and dying because the Indian world 269 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: was shifting. The boy lost his mother, oh Deman became 270 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: a sorrowful kid who found solace in the dream world. 271 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: He fell asleep and spun a restlessness that comes when 272 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: people are waiting to die. Sometimes grief is a nothing feeling. 273 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: And yeah, I just think that's so beautiful and the 274 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: way she describes grief captures so much of it. And also, yes, 275 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: this is where the title comes from in part and 276 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: and the story goes on. But I just thought that 277 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: was encapsulated so much of this idea of dealing with 278 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: all of this grief and sort of what the stories 279 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: that come back to you are. The memories that come 280 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: back to you are the things that suddenly you think 281 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: of and you can't stop thinking of, and you're not 282 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: entirely sure why that it relates to what you're going 283 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: through in some way. But yeah, that was also something 284 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: she excelled at, was capturing this idea of what it's 285 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: like to be dealing with trauma and to be dealing 286 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: with grief, and it continues. I want to be polite 287 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: and present myself as decent. I know the math of 288 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: regret nostalgia. I regret leaving you, and I'm disappointed you 289 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: let me go. I don't remember what I did. I 290 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: know that I cried next to you and I was 291 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: wearing lingerie. You're angry with me for wanting to die. 292 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: More than that, you are upset that I was weak minded. 293 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: I was dramatic and unhinged. I couldn't play Kate. I 294 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: know that's what I should have done. Yeah, And and 295 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: like you said, Samantha, there's so many things in here 296 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: like even if maybe not to the same extent, but 297 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: if you've ever been a relationship where you felt gas 298 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: lit or you were struggling, that it just hits home 299 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: so so well. And we have a lot more quotes 300 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: to demonstrate that. But again, a lot of this is 301 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: addressed directly two her. I mean, I guess on and 302 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: off again. Lover is the best term, Casey, So she'll 303 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: like directly be like Casey, you did you left me here? 304 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: I came here because of you or whatever. Here's another 305 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: quote you used me. I know you think animals are sentient. 306 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: You treat your dog well. I needed to talk to 307 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: you the way we operate. Ask a lot from me 308 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: before I can ask something of you. And I want 309 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 1: to include that one because I it just I connected 310 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: with it so much of that idea of like someone 311 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: and sometimes, like in my experience, I don't want to 312 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: speak for everybody, but sometimes in my experience it's not 313 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 1: anyone's fault in particular. But if you entern a relationship 314 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: and you're dealing with trauma, and you're dealing with all 315 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: of these other things, and it just asks a lot 316 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: of you to quote like not rock the boat, like 317 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: there's already like kind of a power dynamic or a 318 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 1: power difference. And for me, like I constantly felt like 319 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: I was failing because I wanted to be like the 320 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: in heavy quotes normal like no drama girlfriends. But that 321 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: does ask a lot, and that does ask you to 322 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: like hide a lot. And then again, in my experience, 323 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: the other person is expecting that and they get used 324 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: to that. And then when you're starting to be like, 325 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm a little tired of this, like 326 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 1: this is a lot of a performance for me and 327 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: I'm struggling, they were like, wait, what what right? This 328 00:18:46,080 --> 00:19:00,120 Speaker 1: is not what I signed up for, Like, well, okay, 329 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 1: and here's another quote that we wanted to include. Uh. 330 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,360 Speaker 1: And this is also kind of related of the idea 331 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 1: of what she kept from Casey. I didn't say that 332 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,239 Speaker 1: my mother had spent her life waiting for service. I 333 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: waited with her in cafes for an order of French 334 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: fries or something small we could afford. White women didn't 335 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 1: greet her or consider our time. We walked into places, 336 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: and sometimes men heckled me. I said I was twelve, 337 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: and they often didn't believe me. My mother and I 338 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: found solace driving hours out of our neighborhood or being 339 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: Indian was not much of a crime. If I told 340 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: you that, I would also need to stop and note 341 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: the significance of so many other things. Mm hmm. Yeah, 342 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: So I feel like just going off like that last 343 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: thing of you know, the way we operate, ask a 344 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: lot of me before I can ask something of you. Um. 345 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: And this whole thing this was in an instance where 346 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: he'd gotten kind of frustrate with her because she was 347 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,120 Speaker 1: upset about French toast, arriving later, arrive cold. And this 348 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 1: is her reasoning why, and this is why it was 349 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: important to her, um. But it was something that she 350 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: felt she couldn't communicate to him because otherwise all this 351 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: other stuff have to talk about all but that would 352 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: unravel to so many things the unravel, and she continues, on, 353 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: my mind is overwhelmed with breakfast alone. I don't eat 354 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: for days. So you can run your hands over my 355 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: rib cage. You told me that you always want to 356 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 1: eat ribs afterward. I don't eat for days because I 357 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: can't afford it. The mill I ordered after being by 358 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: you or anyone is something earned. Men objectified me to 359 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 1: such a degree that they forget I eat. You feed 360 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: your dog more kindly than you feed me. That's men. 361 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that section in itself, when she talked about that, 362 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 1: I kind of had that moment of like, oh, yeah, 363 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: if I was getting ready for dates like I would 364 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: find and I found myself doing this a lot. That 365 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: connection of like really trying to be the perfect girl 366 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: and to having issues about your body was such a 367 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: thing that, yeah, I would purposely not eat before a 368 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: date in hopes that I would lose that water weight 369 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 1: or whatever just in case or whatever like it may 370 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: have been, because yeah, you want to be the perfect 371 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: in however situation you see, it's perfect. And I guess 372 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: for her right here, him making that comment even skyracketed 373 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: her mindset, even though again she talks about which is 374 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: so sad and I think we all have done this. 375 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: It's kind of going back to the whole ridiculous sentiment 376 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: that if they pay for our fancy dinner, you owe 377 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: them something. But it's kind of that same conversation of 378 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: the fact that she's like I earned my dinner. You 379 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: forget to feed me because I can't afford it, but 380 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not going to ask for it. But 381 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: then you treat your dog so much kinder, and that 382 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: this dog thing does happen a lot, because the white 383 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: woman's dog comes into play a lot. And then she 384 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: I might go, oh, oh god, I feel this and 385 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: it makes me sad. Yeah, yeah, I mean also just 386 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 1: like this three line of sexualization and like twelve years 387 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: old at such a young age and feeling like that's 388 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: exactly right. Um, And as she goes on to say, 389 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: when you loved me, it was degrading using me for 390 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: love degraded me worse. You should have just me. It 391 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 1: was degenerative, you inside me outside. Then I leave. Then 392 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: I come back and get you looked down at me 393 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,719 Speaker 1: and say I love you. I love you. I go 394 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: home and degenerate alone. The distinctness of my bed and 395 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: it's corners are by my you. My agency is degraded 396 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 1: for comfort. I remember my hospital bed and the neutrality 397 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: of the room I had. I was safe from myself 398 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: and from you. I'm stupid waiting for the phone to ring, 399 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: thinking you might call. I drive to you and be 400 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: no better for it. Yeah, yeah, again, like I feel 401 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: so many of it is, even if it's not exactly 402 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: the same the same level. Relate to this idea of 403 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: when you for me, like you know, like something isn't 404 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: right for you or isn't good for you, and you 405 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: keep doing it anyway, and you see all of these 406 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: like signs or things that bring memories of it throughout 407 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: your own place, like it's kind of infiltrated your you know, 408 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: in heavy quote safe space or like your apartment at 409 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 1: your home, and so it's so hard when you catch 410 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: yourself thinking about this person or this thing and you 411 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: don't want to, but it's just all these memories of 412 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: it everywhere, and then having to grapple with whom because 413 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: we hear that all the time to write of like 414 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: why didn't you leave? Or what was it that if 415 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: you're so bad, why did you stay? And then again 416 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: for me, I don't want to generalizations, you have to ask, well, 417 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: I guess my self confidence was that bad or whatever? 418 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: It is like face up again for me, I don't 419 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: want to say for everyone, but like, yeah, why did 420 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: I keep doing it? I love the I'm waiting for 421 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: the phone to ring. Because I've done that. The text 422 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: waiting for that text just in case, hoping did I forgive? 423 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: Let me turn my phone off and on just in 424 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 1: case is not working. But it's in hating yourself for 425 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: doing that and just waiting even though you know this 426 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: is not healthy, right, right, And it kind of goes 427 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: back to that whole idea of like wanting to be 428 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 1: desired and wanting to be sexually desired even if you 429 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: don't really want the other person, or like just kind 430 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 1: of wanting to know or that that since that is 431 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: how we are. The currency that women are often given, 432 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: or the value we're told we have is that you 433 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 1: want that even if you don't want that. Right, It's 434 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: a real mess. Here's another quote. Nobody wants to know 435 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: why Indian women leave or where they go. Our bodies 436 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 1: walk a us the highway from the dances of our 437 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: youth into missing narratives without strobe lights or sweet drinks, 438 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 1: and our small purses are the talk of leaving. The 439 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: truth of our leaving are coming into the world is 440 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: never told. Yeah, And I thought that was really powerful too, 441 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: of just how invisible Native American women have often been 442 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 1: treated when it comes to yet individuals and just like 443 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,959 Speaker 1: issues at large, right, well, she has onto so many things, 444 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 1: not only with the fact that they are ignored, erased, 445 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: but just kind of that whole narrative for the missing 446 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: UH and murdered Indigenous women and girls and two spirited UH. 447 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: A big part of the narrative and the reason that 448 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: we don't hear much about it and or because people 449 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: don't look into it is that really negative toxic idea 450 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: that these people, this indigenous community are are gone because 451 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: they are drug addictive and or lazy and or sexually promiscuous, 452 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: and you know, they probably brought it onto themselves. And 453 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: this really toxic narrative. I'm allowing that as if it's 454 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 1: an excuse. It's it's like, wait, it doesn't if even 455 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: if any of that was true, there's still people like 456 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: I don't understand why we wouldn't care about them disappearing 457 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 1: we do? Why don't we do more? This kind of 458 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,880 Speaker 1: narrative like no one really sees it, no one really 459 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 1: cares about it, they don't care if I come and go, 460 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: And that's such a beginning narrative, like just not even 461 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: caring that they left, point blink, and why did they leave? UH? 462 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: And they she did a really great job and making 463 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: it so personable about this is the struggles that I've had, 464 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 1: and this is how little people pay attention and that 465 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: that in itself is the bigger conversation that we need 466 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: to be having, because we know when it comes to 467 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: marginalized communities, they are more likely to have these issues 468 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 1: where it causes them to need extra help because once again, 469 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 1: the level of trauma and incidents and all of these 470 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: things that happen are so easily ignored and no treatment 471 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: is given and no funding is given, and so the 472 00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: likelihood of its skyrocketing and continuing on, especially generationally, it's 473 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: this whole bigger conversation of like, we've allowed this to happen, 474 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: We as a community have allowed this to happen, and 475 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: us completely ignoring it and allowing for a twelve year 476 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: old be sexualized without anybody stopping. Hey, this is a 477 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 1: weird conversation. Why are you even talking to a twelve 478 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: year old shut your face or thinking that it's cute 479 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: in some way? Like, there's this whole weird narrative in that, 480 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: especially again in the brown community, indigenous community, in the 481 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 1: black community, where we've allowed it for so long and 482 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: then when we try to talk about it now, we 483 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: still don't give it any spotlight as opposed to a 484 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: young white woman being missing or leaving, Like that's the 485 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: first thing you noticed. You're kind of like, why is this? 486 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: And I think she talks a lot about that in 487 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 1: a personal way, Like he doesn't talk about it out right, 488 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,439 Speaker 1: but you see a beginning here. You're like, oh, there's 489 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: the beginning. That's what we see, and yet we're just 490 00:27:54,640 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 1: letting it go as a it's just a narrative. It's fine, right, um, 491 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 1: And as we said it is. She does such a 492 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: great job of being like, this is a very personal 493 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: individual story, but it tells so much more. And I 494 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: think part of that was with like when she talks 495 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: about her own family and all of what they went 496 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 1: through and all the trauma they went through, and like 497 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: this generational and racial trauma, and you can just expand 498 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,479 Speaker 1: that out and see how that would that this one 499 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,199 Speaker 1: story would impact the story and this story and this 500 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 1: story and just sort of this domino effect and and 501 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 1: talking about that. I did want to include this quote 502 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: about trauma comes kind of towards the end of the book. 503 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: Quote my father I said, just saying the two words 504 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: cracked my voice. It was enough for him to know 505 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: he hurt me. I said just the three words were 506 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: too many and enough for me to know. The rest 507 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: of the year was a practice in language. Every new 508 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: word became more horrific. I can say full sentences in 509 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: the shower. Before I knew how to be scared or 510 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: protect myself, I disappeared. Ten minutes of my life were 511 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: enough to kill me. Every day I negotiate the minutes 512 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: of my life, remembering that I can't remember enough. I 513 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: spend hours convincing myself that no child is ruined, and 514 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: the one inside of me is worth remembering fondly. My 515 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: mother is looming spirit guides me some days, telling me 516 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: that nothing is too ugly for this world. I am 517 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: not too ugly for this world. Yeah, that's I mean, 518 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: that's so painful and so powerful, Like that's us someone 519 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: who's gone through drama. That this ring so true, right, 520 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: how hard it is to speak it? And then once 521 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: you do, all of the yeah, like all of these 522 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: minutes and all of these things that you don't realize 523 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: or just reminding you of it, and and then like 524 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: you even if you don't think about it, it's like 525 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: in your head that you, oh, you're not thinking about it, right, yeah, 526 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: oh yes, yes, yes, And that's convincing yourself that you're 527 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: not too ugly for this world. So something else that 528 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: we've been touching on, but quite a few quotes on 529 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: that UM we wanted to share is the theme of 530 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: love or of this relationship she has with Casey. So 531 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: here's a quote about that the man I had been 532 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: conditioning was not happy with me. He knew something was wrong. 533 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: And that's when I wondered if maybe falling in love 534 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: looked like a crisis to an observer. I just thought 535 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: that I liked that, and I like, you know, sword 536 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: of you know, conditioning, because I just feel like there's 537 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: a lot of things we do in relationships that are 538 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: these kind of negotiations, and when you think about it, 539 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: it's strange that we behave this way, but it also 540 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: is very telling of where each person is coming from 541 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: in their own past experiences. And I think that again, 542 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: as someone who's gone through trauma, the negotiations you make 543 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 1: in these relationships, and a lot of these are happening 544 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: in your own head, right, Like you're not really sharing 545 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: the UM. Do you feel sort of like this colder. 546 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: I mean it's not necessarily colder, but like words like 547 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: conditioning or you know, like trying to figure the other 548 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: person out and keep yourself safe and maybe trying to 549 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: hide these avenues of yourself are these pieces of yourself 550 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: that are not as happy, and then maybe you kind 551 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: of discuss it a little bit. Another person is like, oh, no, no, no, 552 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: I'm there for you. But then when they see maybe 553 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: they're not there for you. So here's another quote. You 554 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: said you'd be on the other side of the door. 555 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: That's how perfect love is at first. Solutions are simple 556 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: and problems are laid out simply. I knew that the 557 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: way I'd been living was too complicated for you to 558 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: see up close. I should have consulted a healer before 559 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: I went further with you. So I like that one too, 560 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: because they do think, like I love this. You know, 561 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: perfect love is how perfect love is at first, and 562 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: solutions are simple in the beginning. I do think it's 563 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: very very true. I think that it's kind of also 564 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: what we talk about a lot how as well, when 565 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: we talk about how damaging it can be, as fun 566 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: as it is and as much as it makes sense 567 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: when we watch a lot of like rom coms, and 568 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: that's a lot of it looks like okay, and then 569 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: you get in a relationship you're like, oh no, this 570 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: is hard work, this is all right work right. The 571 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: beginning changes very quickly, and you know, going back to 572 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,959 Speaker 1: your first quote about love, when he talks about conditioning, 573 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: I think she puts the blame on herself so as 574 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: a way to take it away from them, because we've 575 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: done that a lot of us who have been in 576 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: toxic relationships and or not just not good pairing. We 577 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: try to make ourselves what we think they want us 578 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: to be. So we conditioned them to expect whatever, this 579 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: fantasy of the person that you are, um, being the 580 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: perfect girlfriend, being the uh if they want the man 581 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: pixie girlfriend trying to be that. Like it's this weird 582 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: level of like trying to meet the standards that you 583 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: think they have for you. And I find that fascinating 584 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: that she put that on herself instead of being like, oh, 585 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: because I don't because you didn't us that they would 586 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: want the right um. And I did find that very familiar. Yeah. No, 587 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: that's a great point. Yeah, that's a great point. And 588 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: it does kind of go back to like, also this 589 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: idea of like low self esteem, um, which is interesting 590 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: because she talks about that in there, and she's like, 591 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: I don't think that's a thing. It's a white person thing. 592 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, kind of like not trusting someone would want 593 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: you and your true authentic self. And she continues on, 594 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: I am familiar with death, and I remember it was 595 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: heavy to hold. My mother's death was violent internally. I 596 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: remember once an elder skinned of rabbit in our yard. 597 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: He wanted to teach me how to do it. He 598 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: said so many times that a body is a universe. 599 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: He slit the rabbit open in point with his knife, 600 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: to the thick parts of it. He said the word entropy. 601 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: I remember that when my mother died, a tube had 602 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: stretched open the dry corners of her mouth. She was 603 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: not giving grace into the next world. When they pulled 604 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: the tube from her throat, her lips were dry and 605 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 1: her mouth fell open. Nothing is too ugly for this world. 606 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: I think it's just that people pretend not to see. Yeah. 607 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: I mean again, just such powerful language and imagery and 608 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: that throwback to the you know, her mother saying that, like, 609 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: nothing is too ugly for this world. Um, and yeah, 610 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: the idea is people just don't want to see it, 611 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: don't want to acknowledge it. Here's another quote. You don't 612 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 1: appreciate that you've broken me. Lovers want to undo their partners. 613 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: I feel unveiled in more work than you had bargained for. 614 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: I was unsure if the currency of men and unaware 615 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: that losing myself would feel so physical. Yeah, so there's 616 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: that undoing again. You're onto something. But yeah, also just 617 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: this like I feel that too of you don't know 618 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: the currency of men. And then it's like when you 619 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: get in it too far and too late, and you 620 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: have you have conditioned yourself or felt like you know 621 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: something was wrong with you, are always putting the blame 622 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: on you, and then you get so far in the 623 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,800 Speaker 1: relationship that it feels like you lost yourself or I 624 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: remember for me it was in one relationship. Is like 625 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,879 Speaker 1: I was just like waking up suddenly, Wait, what's been 626 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: happening here? Right? How did I get so far into this? Go? 627 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,839 Speaker 1: It feels slowly at first, and then it just snowballs 628 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 1: and she goes on. I feel like my body is 629 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: being drawn through a syringe. Sometimes walking is hard. The 630 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: gravity of Indian women's situations and the weight of our 631 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 1: bodies are too much. Yeah, she's just so open with that, 632 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: with all of her her experiences and her emotions around 633 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: around all of this. And something else that we wanted 634 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: to talk about is this theme of motherhood and family, 635 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 1: which is throughout as we mentioned at the top, she 636 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: went through the trauma of losing custody of her child, 637 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: having an abusive husband, abusive father, the relationship with her mom, 638 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: which was very complicated, very very complicated, and yeah, like 639 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: we said, all of this shame kind of throughout a 640 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: lot of their stories. So here's a quote. The Indian 641 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 1: condition is my grandmother. She was a nursery teacher. There 642 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: are stories that she brought children to our kitchen and 643 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,760 Speaker 1: gave them laxatives and then put newspaper on the ground. 644 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: She squatted before them and made faces to illustrate how 645 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: hard they should push. She de wormed children this way, 646 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 1: and she learned that in residential school where parasites and 647 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: nuns and priests contaminated generations of our people, Indians froze 648 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,800 Speaker 1: trying to run away, and many starved nuns and priests 649 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 1: ran out of places to put bones, so they built 650 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: us into the walls of new boarding schools. I can 651 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: see my grandmother's face in front of those children. Her 652 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: hands like rose petals, and her eyes were soft and 653 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: round like buttons. She liked carnations and canned milk. She 654 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: transcended resilience and actualized what Indians weren't taught to know. 655 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: We are unmovable. Time seems measured by grief and anticipatory grief. 656 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: I don't think she even measured time. So so much trauma, right, 657 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 1: they're so much generational trauma and just in her family. 658 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: But I feel like she also did such a good 659 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 1: job of like painting, uh, these small details that make 660 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,280 Speaker 1: a person a person that says so much more about them, 661 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: And she did that with with her grandmother. And you know, 662 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: I love the tuxposition of like she liked carnations and 663 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: canned milk. And then I don't think she even measured time, 664 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 1: Like it's just so much encompassing so much in this 665 00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,839 Speaker 1: person and in her memories of her. YE do love 666 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 1: how she does concentrate on the women and of our family, 667 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: and in that level of realness and trying to be 668 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 1: real open about things that she learned, she does bring 669 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: to light a lot of conversations about being Native American 670 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 1: and indigenous in that uh, how she differentiates her life 671 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: like what it seems to be with the man who 672 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:26,280 Speaker 1: I assume is white versus her family who are showing 673 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 1: her and trying to remind her of the Native ways. 674 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: And it's interesting to see that like dichotomy for her 675 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: where she feels broken versus where she may have been 676 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 1: broken slash where she still needs that strength. Like it's 677 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 1: kind of that build up again, she goes on. What 678 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,279 Speaker 1: I feel struck with is something smaller in a less 679 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: impressive world. I woke up today confused inside of something 680 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,399 Speaker 1: feminine and ancestral in its misery. I woke up as 681 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,320 Speaker 1: the bones of my ancestors a locked in government storage. 682 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: My illness has carried me into white buildings, into the 683 00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 1: doctor's office and the therapist with nothing to say. Then 684 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 1: I need my grandmother's eyes on me, smiling at my 685 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 1: misguided heart. Imagine their faces when I say that. Yeah, 686 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: that's going back to what you were saying of needing 687 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: that the strength of the women and her family, and 688 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 1: how painful it was to lose that. Here's another quote. 689 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 1: It felt like Mom's funeral lasted a year. It felt 690 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 1: like one long winter where my family told every story 691 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: of hers by memory, as if we were being interrogated. 692 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,920 Speaker 1: My mother's spirit loomed over us, imploring us to avenge 693 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: her death, but there were too many culprits, from the government, 694 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: to the reservation to her own family to ever hurt her. 695 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 1: The very first time I saw in pictures that between 696 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:41,839 Speaker 1: thirteen and fourteen, my mother changed that culprit and then 697 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: all our fathers and the men who said they were 698 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 1: down for the cause and then abandoned it like they 699 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 1: did their children. Those men killed my mother. Even the 700 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: sweet lovers who gave her hope are the culprits of 701 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 1: her pain, right, Ah. And one of the people who 702 00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: gave her pain was Paul Simon. Yeah, I need to 703 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 1: put that out there. Seriously struck me as odd, like 704 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:09,280 Speaker 1: in the moment that I was like, wait, what was that? Right, 705 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:11,239 Speaker 1: I had to go and look and I was like, 706 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 1: I have to look at what this say is. And 707 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: essentially it took on this someone that she knew, the 708 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: mother knew helped provide background stories for them to do 709 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: a musical which got some heat but also was successful 710 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 1: for pretty much retelling Native stories without Native people. Again problematic, 711 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: and the mother really feeling like for a moment she 712 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,000 Speaker 1: was being rescued by this white man and then once 713 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 1: again being disappointed. It was an interesting moment. But I'm like, 714 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: damn her mom. She thought, for just a minute maybe 715 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,720 Speaker 1: he would change her life, and he really didn't. Yeah. 716 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 1: And in fact, if I remember correctly, the reviews are 717 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:58,720 Speaker 1: very unkind to her. They were like, I want to say, okay, 718 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: so the person who played is her as Sarah Ramirez, oh, 719 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,279 Speaker 1: from Grey's Anatomy, which she mentioned she was like the 720 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: woman from Grey's Anatomy by her mother, So yeah, she 721 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 1: was played by Sarah Ramirez and her mom. I think 722 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,719 Speaker 1: the character was not so giving. Yeah, and her mom 723 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: was actually really helpful in helping him get a lot 724 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,840 Speaker 1: of information, and they apparently helped pay for some groceries 725 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: and such like. They were paid a little bit, but 726 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,799 Speaker 1: not to the extent of what he made off of it. 727 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,200 Speaker 1: But I was like, well, Paul Simon not a good guy, 728 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: are yet? Yeah? To be fair, I've never seen this play. 729 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,320 Speaker 1: I've never seen anything related to it, so I really 730 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,080 Speaker 1: can't tell you anything about that play. But just having 731 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: that mentioned in the memoir, I was like, wait, right, 732 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: what is happening right, and her dad was an artist 733 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: and also not the same experience with some things similar. 734 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,239 Speaker 1: I was like, wow, he thought he was going to 735 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,520 Speaker 1: be rich, because there's the film, a documentary was made 736 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: about him, because he was like a really bad criminal, 737 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 1: but in a talented artist like that seemed to be 738 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: both of those things. And she continues to write, the 739 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,400 Speaker 1: pain was a process to understanding. Men were born to 740 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,600 Speaker 1: hurt my mother in the flesh and the text, and 741 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,360 Speaker 1: she was my savior. The language was always wrong, even 742 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,520 Speaker 1: in this account. I can't convey the pulse of her 743 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,359 Speaker 1: in her sleep. I couldn't turn away in love with 744 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: her heavy breathing. She rarely slept, but when she did 745 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,600 Speaker 1: it felt generative and sacred, like a bear's hibernation. Her 746 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,840 Speaker 1: small palms were red with heat. She always fell asleep 747 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,239 Speaker 1: with a book on her chest. It was the illumination 748 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 1: of living light. And then here's final quote we wanted 749 00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 1: to end with. There is some stillness even in my history, 750 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,280 Speaker 1: a good secret and so much bad. It almost feels 751 00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,799 Speaker 1: like a betrayal to have good thoughts. Sometimes I know 752 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,759 Speaker 1: part of me is still a ghost walking next to 753 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,880 Speaker 1: my mother, looking for something to make an offering to 754 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,840 Speaker 1: holding her hand. Either this feeling means part of me 755 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 1: is dead or that she's alive somewhere inside of me. Yeah. 756 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I just feel like she did such a 757 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: fantastic job of capturing grief and trauma but also the 758 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: humanity of all of the people in her life. And 759 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,560 Speaker 1: I mean it's beautiful prose, it's no good and it's 760 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,360 Speaker 1: something we didn't mention. As her conversations with her sons, 761 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,640 Speaker 1: so Isador's one, then she talks about the other sons 762 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:38,920 Speaker 1: that she kept and and how strong he seems to 763 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,279 Speaker 1: be for her. She is real raw about the fact 764 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 1: that she went through postpartum depression and just where that 765 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,480 Speaker 1: was for her and trying to being pregnant and being 766 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 1: on her medication. Like, she is very raw about that experience. 767 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:52,839 Speaker 1: And I think there's so many women who have been 768 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,960 Speaker 1: pregnant and god that similar experience can really relate to 769 00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,239 Speaker 1: and again being postpartum, and we've seen that come to 770 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 1: light a little more with a little more giving of like, oh, 771 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,000 Speaker 1: women go through some things when they're pregnant and after 772 00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,879 Speaker 1: the fact. Cool, cool, but not enough. But we talked 773 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,120 Speaker 1: about that as well as again we're talking about what 774 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: that looks like for women who are indigenous women and 775 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:15,919 Speaker 1: women of color who are often not given the same 776 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,000 Speaker 1: lenience as white women do. And we can talk about 777 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 1: that with the removal of her first child and her 778 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,719 Speaker 1: not being able to fight that, first of all because 779 00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,440 Speaker 1: she was having her second baby. Secondly, because she was 780 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 1: going through all of the mess being off medication, having 781 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 1: to really have to come to terms with her mental 782 00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:36,080 Speaker 1: health and what she needed to do for treatment for 783 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,800 Speaker 1: herself to be in a better place. That's partially what 784 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: she's talking about. Of Course, she's got so many things 785 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 1: that she's talking about this tiny memoir, and I'm sure 786 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,360 Speaker 1: she has some more things to say, but yeah, we 787 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,480 Speaker 1: don't mention it too much in here, but she does 788 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,839 Speaker 1: write about that, and I think it's just again, there's 789 00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 1: no solutions in this, just how she survived essentially where 790 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 1: she is today and it and it's a beautiful, tragic, 791 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,160 Speaker 1: magic till slash beautiful telling I guess of what she's 792 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:09,640 Speaker 1: been through. Yeah, yeah, highly highly recommended. Was so moving, 793 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,760 Speaker 1: So go check it out listeners if you haven't already. 794 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,920 Speaker 1: In the meantime, if you have any book suggestions for 795 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 1: our next pick, please send them to us our emails, 796 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 1: Stuff India mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You 797 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,480 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or 798 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:26,640 Speaker 1: on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as 799 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christina, Thank you and thanks 800 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:31,719 Speaker 1: to you for listening Stuff I Never Told Me his 801 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio for More podcast on my 802 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:35,760 Speaker 1: Heart Radio because it's the heart radio app, Apple Podcast, 803 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,440 Speaker 1: I'll read you listen to your favorite shows