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Speaker 1: All right, thanks Scott Shannon, and welcome to our two

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Speaker 1: Sean Hannity Show toll free. It is eight hundred and

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Speaker 1: ninety four to one, Shawn, if you want to be

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Speaker 1: a part of the program. All right, The dead ceiling

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Speaker 1: battle is now full on. There is a full revolt

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Speaker 1: from the House Freedom Caucus. Dan Bishop and will join

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Speaker 1: us in a moment from North Carolina congressman is the

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Speaker 1: first to call for a motion to vacate as it

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Speaker 1: relates to Kevin McCarthy. Speaker Nuking Rich. I can give

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Speaker 1: you the list of people. Steve Moore, economist, author of Trumpanomics,

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Speaker 1: the New York Post editorial Board, Conservative, the Wall Street

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Speaker 1: Journal editorial Board, Washington Examiner, I believe is the Washington

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Speaker 1: Times signing on to Kevin McCarthy's bill. Others on the

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Speaker 1: Freedom Caucus signs saying why do we negotiate so much away? Anyway,

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Speaker 1: we've not gotten the actual verbiage of In terms of

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Speaker 1: the bill as written, it's going to be ninety nine pages,

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Speaker 1: so we're told a lot of the devil I'm sure

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Speaker 1: ends up being in the details of all of this.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, here to weigh in on both sides, of this,

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Speaker 1: we have NUW. Gingrich, former Speaker of the House, and

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Speaker 1: Congressman Dan Bishop from the great state of North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: Welcome you both to the program.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Sean.

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Speaker 1: All right, mister Speaker, Let's start with where these negotiations started.

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Speaker 1: It started with Joe Biden that said no, he wouldn't negotiate.

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden that met once and then disappeared for ninety

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Speaker 1: seven days. And you know, we're up on this quote deadline,

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Speaker 1: which I think economists rightly argue is not a real deadline.

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Speaker 1: But they're saying June what fifth is the drop dead deadline?

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Speaker 1: The deal is announced, we have the talking points from

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Speaker 1: both sides, but not the actual language from both sides.

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Speaker 1: The Republicans will have seventy two hours to read this

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Speaker 1: bill before they vote on it. But you generally support

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Speaker 1: this as historic and a dramatic victory. Why do you

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Speaker 1: say that.

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Speaker 3: Well, where we started. You have a Senate which is

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Speaker 3: still nominally Democrat. You have a president who's Democrat. You

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Speaker 3: have a very narrow Republican majority in the House. By

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Speaker 3: the time this process was completed, Kevin McCarthy had the lead.

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Speaker 3: The center Republicans were backing the House Republicans. President Biden

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Speaker 3: had been forced into negotiations something he said he would

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Speaker 3: never do. And the real question in my mind, and

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Speaker 3: I cover this a lot in my new book, March

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Speaker 3: to the Majority, which is about how we took sixteen

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Speaker 3: years to get to a majority and for four years

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Speaker 3: we out maneuvered Bill Cluton. This is exactly in that model.

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Speaker 3: This is a good first step. If this was the

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Speaker 3: final step, I'd be really disappointed. But this step, if

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Speaker 3: this passes, we have strengthened the House Republicans, we have

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Speaker 3: strengthened conservatism. We've set the stage for appropriations fight this fall.

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Speaker 3: Remember sets a ceiling for appropriations, it doesn't set a basement.

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Speaker 3: And so we can come back with all the evidence

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Speaker 3: that the investigating committees are producing, we can cut a

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Speaker 3: lot of things that we're not cutting this deal, and

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Speaker 3: by the end of this year we can have significantly

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Speaker 3: changed the direction of government. That's how it happened in

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Speaker 3: the nineteen nineties. We ultimately got to four years in

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Speaker 3: a row of balance budget. But we didn't do it

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Speaker 3: the first day. We did it one step at a time.

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Speaker 3: This is step one, and I think for it to

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Speaker 3: be defeated would be a disaster would lead to a

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Speaker 3: clean that ceiling with no reforms and would shift the

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Speaker 3: balance of power to the Democrats decisively.

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Speaker 1: And you are the last Speaker to have balanced the

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Speaker 1: budget in our nation's history. Just as a point to

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Speaker 1: throw out there, Dan Bishop, thanks for joining us. Let's

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Speaker 1: get your take on it. And you're going as far

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Speaker 1: as to say that you're open now to triggering the

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Speaker 1: motion to vacate, which anyone Republican can do in the

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Speaker 1: House in terms of no confidence vote on Speaker McCarthy.

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Speaker 2: I think the negotiation has been handled disastrously, and with

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Speaker 2: all respect, I certainly respect Speaker Gingrid. She's got a

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Speaker 2: column on foxnews dot com that lists twelve supposed benefits

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Speaker 2: to us. But as you said at the very outset, Sean,

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Speaker 2: you haven't seen the text of the bill. So one

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Speaker 2: of the things Speaker Gingrit says is that just as

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Speaker 2: an example, it slashes funding for Biden's new IRS agents

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Speaker 2: and eliminates the total fiscal year twenty twenty three staffing

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Speaker 2: funding requests for new agents. Remember, the Democrats gave eighty

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Speaker 2: billion dollars to the IRS and a ten year advance

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Speaker 2: appropriation that they can this bill.

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Speaker 1: That best cuts twenty of the eighty billion, right.

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Speaker 2: No, sir, it cuts one point four billion of the

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Speaker 2: eighty billion.

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Speaker 1: Is this in the actual language, because based on the

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Speaker 1: points of both sides.

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Speaker 2: But all right, go ahea, hang on, Sean, let me

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Speaker 2: just give it. Hear me out for a second. So

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Speaker 2: one point four billion. By the way, Kevin said to

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Speaker 2: us on the call the O date, he said publicly

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Speaker 2: that it was one point nine billion. That's wrong. It's

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Speaker 2: one point four billion. And it doesn't do anything to

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Speaker 2: eliminate the fiscal year twenty twenty three staffing funding requests.

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Speaker 2: It just takes that out of that pot. The IRIS

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Speaker 2: can spend that whenever it wants to, and no further

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Speaker 2: progress is made toward the eighty billion. That is going

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Speaker 2: to be, you know, eating out the substance of the

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Speaker 2: American people. They talked about. Regulatory pago is another thing.

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Speaker 2: The Biden administration couldn't get the reins Act that would

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Speaker 2: control the growth of regulation, costly regulation. But there's going

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Speaker 2: to be something they say is almost as good, regulatory pago.

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Speaker 2: The administration is going to have to do what the

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Speaker 2: Trump administration did and say or if you're going to

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Speaker 2: have a new regulation that costs money, that put in

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Speaker 2: poses an expensive burden. You got to take one away. Well,

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Speaker 2: look at the language. It says the Biden administration can

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Speaker 2: in and laterally weigh that and if there's any question

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Speaker 2: about it, it's got provision in there and says and

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Speaker 2: the Bide Administration's determination cannot be challenged in any court.

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Speaker 2: This is what the bill is chock full of. Cosmetic

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Speaker 2: things like that. Even the point that the Speaker just said,

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Speaker 2: former Speaker said that it will cut spending year of year. No,

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Speaker 2: it's not clear that it will. It may cut maximum

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Speaker 2: twenty billion dollars more probably twelve billion. That is nothing

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Speaker 2: that it locks in the post COVID massive growth in

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Speaker 2: the bureaucracy. It doesn't put us on a path that

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Speaker 2: you can argue to getting anything better. Everything that is

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Speaker 2: a gift for Republicans in this bill, every single thing.

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Speaker 2: If we have enough time on your ferram I'll debate

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Speaker 2: them all. I'll show you all of it. Every one

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Speaker 2: of them is a fake. And at the same time,

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Speaker 2: here's the feature of the bill that dominates. It takes

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Speaker 2: the debt ceiling out to January of twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: That in an unlimited way.

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Speaker 1: You can instead of instead of the original House bill

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Speaker 1: that would have brought us right back to this position

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Speaker 1: next year, which I thought politically would have been smart,

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Speaker 1: so we.

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Speaker 2: Could debate it before the country Instead that what does

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Speaker 2: Biden want to do? Take it out of the presidential

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Speaker 2: CAMPI you're kneecapping the presidential candidate by taking the issue out.

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Speaker 2: And the amount that can be incurred in that period

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Speaker 2: of time. People are estimating four trillion dollars more. Some

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Speaker 2: say it's going to be more than that five six.

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Speaker 2: Nobody on Capitolville can tell you, and they don't name it.

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Speaker 2: Why do they not name it like we did in

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Speaker 2: our bill show?

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Speaker 1: Let me get speaker Gingrich to respond all.

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Speaker 3: This, well, that's a lot of different assertions that are

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Speaker 3: you know, you get into he said. She said, The

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Speaker 3: fact is that this does cut domestic discussionary spending. This

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Speaker 3: does rescind all the COVID money that has not yet

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Speaker 3: been spent. This is about twenty eight billion dollars, which

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Speaker 3: by the way, is a larger recision. That is a

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Speaker 3: cut in existing authorization than all previous recisions combined with

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Speaker 3: total twenty six billion dollars. This does, I think in

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Speaker 3: a very important way increase the ability for both infrastructure

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Speaker 3: and energy with a pretty dramatic change in the permitting system,

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Speaker 3: which is something that the environmentalists were deeply opposed to,

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Speaker 3: and I think you can argue about the way in

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Speaker 3: which they're trying to do something. It has a work

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Speaker 3: requirement for food stamps and for other welfare programs, which

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Speaker 3: is frankly exactly the same that we had in the

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety six. So it raises the age that people

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Speaker 3: can get money without working. It permanently rebalances the roles.

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Speaker 3: It lowers the amount of state can waiver from twelve

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Speaker 3: percent to eight percent. So again it's a step. I'm

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Speaker 3: not arguing that this is perfect. I'm arguing that defeating this,

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Speaker 3: in fact, that weakens us and strengthens the Democrats, and

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Speaker 3: that the national media will gleefully report that the House

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Speaker 3: Republicans are incapable of governing. And I don't see what

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Speaker 3: you gain for that, because the outcome in the end

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Speaker 3: would be a worse bill less change, because you know

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Speaker 3: what would pass. People are not going to accept the

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Speaker 3: United States government going into an inability to pay its debt,

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Speaker 3: and therefore you suddenly have all sorts of folks to decide. Okay,

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Speaker 3: I have no choice. Since we tried and failed, we

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Speaker 3: have to pass something. This is significantly better than we

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Speaker 3: would pass and significantly better than what Biden proposed. And

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Speaker 3: again the fact is, if you continue down the road

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Speaker 3: on spending the one percent growth cap, which again remember

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Speaker 3: is a ceiling. It's not a basement. You can go

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Speaker 3: below that in the future, So you can't go above it.

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Speaker 3: The Congressional Budget Office said it's it's two trillion dollars

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Speaker 3: in savings.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Dan Bishop, what you're saying, Oh my gosh, what.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, speaker ingrid that there are there are actual

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Speaker 2: enforceable caps like the caps in the twenty eleven BCA

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Speaker 2: that were by the way, blown every year by agreement.

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Speaker 2: They're enforceable caps for two years at one percent. The

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Speaker 2: other four years are mere aspirational targets.

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Speaker 3: They have no force.

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Speaker 2: And you're right, they turned that into the CBO. CBO

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Speaker 2: comes out and says it's going to save two point

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Speaker 2: one trillion. Are you kidding me? When they're not even

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Speaker 2: caps that you have in the in the twenty eleven bill,

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Speaker 2: But the Congress agreed to blow every.

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Speaker 1: Dan let me ask for clarification. Can can any congress,

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Speaker 1: current Congress actually require future congresses on spending?

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Speaker 2: No, but but leave aside whether it's been attempted before.

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Speaker 2: But at least when you attempted it before, you put

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Speaker 2: them in law, and they had to be discarded by

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Speaker 2: the future congress by action. Those four years of targets

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Speaker 2: don't even have any force whatsoever. Let me speak to

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Speaker 2: a couple of the other things that figure Garritt just said. Ingrid.

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Speaker 2: He said, we called back tens of billions in noun

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Speaker 2: spent COVID dollars. The number is six billion that has

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Speaker 2: actually been taken back. They took another twenty two billion

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Speaker 2: of it and they put it in a fund over

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Speaker 2: the Commerce Department to be able to be spent later

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Speaker 2: on something else. Over and above the one percent caps

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Speaker 2: that he was just talking about. He talked about work

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Speaker 2: requirements and said his collumn says it will help lift

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Speaker 2: millions out of poverty by enacting work requirements for food

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Speaker 2: stamps and wealthare benefits. Well, they didn't allow us to

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Speaker 2: put it on Medicaid, so we're talking about food stamps

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Speaker 2: SNAP and temporary assistance to needy family's tennis and on

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Speaker 2: those two. There already are work requirements from age eighteen

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Speaker 2: to forty nine. It extends it up to age fifty times,

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Speaker 2: but it and it does that gradually, one year at

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Speaker 2: a time, and it all goes away subsequently in a sunset.

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Speaker 2: But it adds three new categories of exemptions. It's not

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Speaker 2: even clear, as Democrats have said, it's not even clear

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Speaker 2: that will have more You know that snap won't the

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Speaker 2: work requirements will be more comprehensive.

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Speaker 1: Or other than less, mister speaker, they have.

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Speaker 2: They send leadership talking points to the speaker and he

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Speaker 2: put them in a column, but they're not true.

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Speaker 1: Mister speaker.

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Speaker 3: I think that'll be a very interesting debate. I'm let

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Speaker 3: me just say flatly, when we passed welfare reform in

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety six, we didn't include medicaid either. So in

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Speaker 3: that sense, the fact is Bill Clinton vetoed at twice.

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Speaker 3: Biden would have vetoed it. Now, on the other hand,

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Speaker 3: this is a significant step in the right direction. It

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Speaker 3: does reduce state's ability to waive from twelve to eight percent.

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Speaker 3: It does extend the age from to fifty four. And

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Speaker 3: I agree up this is not perfection, But I don't

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Speaker 3: think I'm going to double check on the COVID caarback

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Speaker 3: because I'm not sure that that's an accurate interpretation of

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Speaker 3: what's happening there. I think it's legitimate to raise all

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Speaker 3: those questions and then to try to find out whether

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Speaker 3: or not, in fact we think that that is you know,

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Speaker 3: I mean, who is telling factually the truth? At this point,

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Speaker 3: I have to say I understand the passion, but I'm

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Speaker 3: not at all. I'm not totally convinced by the way.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to give an example. The bill's actual language

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Speaker 3: has been online Sunday since Sunday night at seven fifteen,

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Speaker 3: so anybody in the country who wants to can go

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Speaker 3: and read the bill. That's just an example of the

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Speaker 3: confusion that's out there. And it's just simply not accurate

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Speaker 3: to say that the bill has not been available.

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Speaker 2: Congressman, I would think you'd have read it by now,

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Speaker 2: mister Speakers, and you're making representations about it. You would

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Speaker 2: find everything that I've said to be accurate. And that's

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Speaker 2: not all.

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Speaker 3: No, I'm gonna have my staff check every single thing

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Speaker 3: you said, and I'll be glad to get back to

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Speaker 3: Sean and check. I mean, I'm again I.

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Speaker 1: Think let me let me ask a more general question,

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Speaker 1: because I'm just I'm looking at the clock here in

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Speaker 1: this segment, and we'll carry this into the next segment.

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Speaker 1: Didn't I felt Kevin McCarthy went into these negotiations with

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Speaker 1: the upper hand. I mean, they passed the bill, they

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Speaker 1: did their job, they raised the dead ceiling, and it

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Speaker 1: was fiscally responsible and it scored out a what four

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Speaker 1: point eight trillion dollars saved and over in a ten

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Speaker 1: year period. Mister speaker, did he give up too much?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, look, I went through this

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Speaker 3: a lot with Bill Clinton, and we negotiated a lot

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Speaker 3: of different things over four years. I listen pretty carefully

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Speaker 3: as they worked their way. I thought that there were

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Speaker 3: certain red lines that the McCarthy heads that were real.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the work requirement changes may not sound like

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Speaker 3: a whole lot to Congress and Bishop, but I'll tell you,

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Speaker 3: for the left wing Democrats, it's a religious matter, and

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Speaker 3: they're in a state of shock that they were put

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Speaker 3: in there at all, and assess the stage to come back.

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Speaker 3: No worries that this is the ceiling, it's not the

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Speaker 3: basement the republic that they can get the votes can

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Speaker 3: come back this fall.

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Speaker 1: Let me let me I don't like to interrupt anybody

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Speaker 1: on this. It's too important. Speaker Gingrich, Congressman Bishops, stay there.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk to both you on the other side. Eight

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Speaker 1: hundred nine four one Seawan will do this for the

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Speaker 1: full hour, just to get you both sides of this,

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Speaker 1: twenty five to the top of the hour, eight hundred

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Speaker 1: and ninety four one sean. If you want to be

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Speaker 1: a part of the program. There is a massive inner

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Speaker 1: mural battle. By the way, it's happening on the Democratic

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Speaker 1: side too. This is not just the Republicans as it

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Speaker 1: relates to the deal that Speaker McCarthy least made with Biden.

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Speaker 1: They now have the bill out, there's a seventy two

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Speaker 1: hour period where people get to read the bill. In

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Speaker 1: terms of the people that are supporting Speaker McCarthy, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of people that I talked to today and

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Speaker 1: yesterday and they're all saying, I'm not sure yet. I

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Speaker 1: want to read the bill. I want to get into

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Speaker 1: the ninety nine pages, okay, which by the way, is

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Speaker 1: the right decision. But if you're looking at those people

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Speaker 1: supporting it, it would be like New Gingrich Stephen Moore, who

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Speaker 1: wrote trump Onomics, was going to join us in a second.

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Speaker 1: The New York Post editorial board, the Wall Street Journal

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Speaker 1: editorial board, the Washington I'm trying to remember it was

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Speaker 1: that the Examiner or the Time, no Washington Times, you know,

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Speaker 1: called it a win for McCarthy. And anyway, so we continue.

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Speaker 1: Dan Bishop is with us, who said that he's likely

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Speaker 1: going to put forward a motion to vacate. You might

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Speaker 1: remember during the battle over speaker that was a big deal.

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Speaker 1: Anyone Republican member to have that motion and that would

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Speaker 1: be a vote, then that would take place in terms

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Speaker 1: of whether they would remove Kevin McCarthy. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of anger from the Freedom Caucus, more conservatives in the

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Speaker 1: House that are angry about it. Others like Steve Moore saying, okay,

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Speaker 1: the the you know, he's telling us about the things

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Speaker 1: that he's liked, that he likes about it. Steve Moore

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Speaker 1: joins us now along with Congressman Dan Bishop. By the way,

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Speaker 1: Congressman Bishop, are you going to move forward with a

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Speaker 1: motion of vacate or you would have not decided.

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Speaker 2: So all I said about that, Sean is it is

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Speaker 2: clear to me this is such a disaster that it's

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Speaker 2: going to have to be done. I'm not anxious to

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Speaker 2: do that. I don't do something like that out of

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Speaker 2: anger the other members that I don't work with. But

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Speaker 2: the point is is this, and you talked about it.

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Speaker 2: They said we couldn't get two hundred and eighteen votes

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Speaker 2: for a bill. We did and I have and it's

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Speaker 2: not in speaker Ginrich thinks that, you know, I'm sort

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Speaker 2: of a false strung man argument that we must all

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Speaker 2: be upset because we didn't get our bill and Kevin

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Speaker 2: went for a more incremental approach. That's not it at all.

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Speaker 2: Is that Kevin conceded every single possible thing and then

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Speaker 2: has come out with a bunch of fictional, kind of

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Speaker 2: cosmetic nothings and tried to suggest that their benefits and

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Speaker 2: I can take each one apart, as I was in

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Speaker 2: the last segment. So the point is, and we said

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Speaker 2: this to Kevin as the negotiations began sort of getting

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Speaker 2: in a weird spot, we sent him a letter and

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Speaker 2: the main thing that forces a substance of that was

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Speaker 2: to say, Kevin, do not force it. Republican unity. They

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Speaker 2: said we couldn't do it, but we've been unified in

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Speaker 2: an amazing way. It is the dynamic force in Washington.

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Speaker 2: He disregarded that, and they brought back this disaster that

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Speaker 2: he knew would split the conference all the hell and that.

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Speaker 1: What I'm having a hard time understanding is why wasn't

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Speaker 1: he in touch with the caucus the whole time before

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Speaker 1: any concessions were made one hundred percent?

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Speaker 2: If he was going to surrender this comprehensively, why not

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Speaker 2: get at least representatives of the factions that we've been

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Speaker 2: working throughout the whole eight file four months of this

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Speaker 2: Congress since we had the Speaker's contest back to Washington,

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Speaker 2: say here's the situation. It's really gone badly. What do

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Speaker 2: we do? Instead? They just bring this back and drop

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Speaker 2: it in our laps and then lie about it.

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Speaker 1: Let me get Steve Moore in here. Steve, you've actually

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Speaker 1: you actually said, I believe with Cudlow that you think

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Speaker 1: McCarthy actually outmaneuvered the White House and negotiated a deal

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Speaker 1: with valuable concessions that were Conservatives demanded strict spending caps

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Speaker 1: for twenty twenty four, green light on new energy, permitting

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Speaker 1: no new student loan bailouts, but the old ones remain.

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Speaker 1: Energy permitting no what else requirements for welfare, a recision

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Speaker 1: of some fifty billion of unspent COVID money, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: and limits on Biden's job killing regulations, which overall you

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Speaker 1: give this a net plus in a big way.

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Speaker 2: Why not in a big way?

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Speaker 1: Sean?

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Speaker 2: Goodbye with you. And by the way, Congressman Bishop is

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Speaker 2: somebody I greatly respect. And look, you're not going to

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Speaker 2: find many people out here show John who are more

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Speaker 2: anti big government than I am. I mean, if I

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Speaker 2: have my way, we would cut this government in half.

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Speaker 2: It is atrocious. It's killing our country, it's sapping of

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Speaker 2: us of our economic energy. But I think the most

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Speaker 2: important thing for your listeners to understand is this whole

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Speaker 2: fight demonstrates is if you want smaller government, as you do, Sean,

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Speaker 2: I do, congressm Bishop does to most of your listeners,

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Speaker 2: you've got to get a new president.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: This president is atrocious and he's run a six trillion

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Speaker 2: dollar hole into our budget and it is a financial catastrophe.

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Speaker 2: Do I think that the Speaker did about as good

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Speaker 2: a job as possible given the hand that he was dealt. Remember,

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Speaker 2: Republicans only have one half of one third power of

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Speaker 2: the government right now, and so I would have liked

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Speaker 2: to have had him hold out for a better deal.

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Speaker 2: I agree with you, Congressman Bishop, that I hate the

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Speaker 2: idea that we're going to instead of hiring eighty seven

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Speaker 2: thousand agents, they're going to hire eighty two thousand agents.

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Speaker 2: I don't declare that as a victory, but we'll see,

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Speaker 2: you know. I do think that the cap for next

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Speaker 2: year is an important one, and I think there were

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Speaker 2: some victories here and I think we have to pull together.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, if the Conservatives vote against this,

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Speaker 2: I have no problem with that. I think, you know, Sean,

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Speaker 2: it was it was Nancy Pelosi and Chucky Schumer and

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Speaker 2: and President Biden who blew this six trillion dollar, you

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Speaker 2: know hole in our budget. They should have to walk

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Speaker 2: the plank and vote for the death ceiling increase.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't disagree with that at all. Dan, what's

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Speaker 1: your reaction to that?

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Speaker 2: So Steve's a reasonable guy. A number of the things

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Speaker 2: that you read out of I think a column he

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Speaker 2: wrote that I had a chance to see. Once Steve

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Speaker 2: sees the language and the bill that I was referring

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Speaker 2: to before, he also will see that a lot of

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Speaker 2: the things he understood to be the case aren't and

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Speaker 2: and and that.

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Speaker 1: What do you why do you tell them specifically and

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Speaker 1: let them respond to each one.

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Speaker 2: Well, again, I don't have the language before me, so

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Speaker 2: I can't quote it quite as readily as I did

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Speaker 2: with Speaker Ginkricks. But there was something he made reference

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Speaker 2: to what I referred to earlier as administered regulatory PAGO,

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Speaker 2: which is the administration. That's the provision in there to

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Speaker 2: sort of sort of limit destructive regulations. Well, Steve may

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Speaker 2: not know that the bill allows the Biden administration to

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Speaker 2: completely waive impact of that if uh if if they

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Speaker 2: believe it's necessary for if program effectiveness. In other words,

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Speaker 2: something of the language doesn't mean anything. They can do

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Speaker 2: it inunilaterally. If there's this and the provision, the language

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Speaker 2: says that decision cannot be challenged and is not subject

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Speaker 2: to judicial reviews. Nobody can do anything about it. It's

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Speaker 2: it is, you know, and.

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Speaker 1: It's been well, Congressman Bishop, let me ask you this.

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Speaker 1: What was the communication like during the negotiations with the Speaker?

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Speaker 2: Very very limited? Uh? You know, I had some calls

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Speaker 2: from Garrett Graves as one of his Negotia's great guy

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Speaker 2: Patrick McHenry a few times. It was in the last hours.

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Speaker 2: It was when we heard the possibility of a four

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Speaker 2: trillion dollar debt increase, and then even later I think

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Speaker 2: that we did. Do we understand that they're going to

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Speaker 2: take it out of the presidential election by putting the

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Speaker 2: next issue, you know, by extending it out without any

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Speaker 2: specific numerical limit to January twenty twenty five. I mean,

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Speaker 2: do you even know that it was bad enough? It

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Speaker 2: takes it out of the presidential race race, but it

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Speaker 2: also puts a lame duck Biden administration in position and

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Speaker 2: a lame duck Congress. You know what happens in those situations, Sean,

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Speaker 2: where that's when the spending blowouts occur. They put that

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Speaker 2: right on the opposite side of that to be the

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Speaker 2: worst possible strategic moment. Everything about this.

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Speaker 1: Is I'd think of stretching this out. I would rather

435
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: have come back next year this time next year, and

436
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 1: don't gone through this all over again in an election year.

437
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,199
Speaker 1: Is it what to defined? Whether the two parties are

438
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: at least given an up opportunity to define it, Steve.

439
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 2: Make it as clear as I can. Here's the we

440
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,479
Speaker 2: would have been better off with a clean debt ceiling

441
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 2: limit that was within a year than this disaster. Oh well, Steve,

442
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 2: you know, I mean the Congressman is right that there

443
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 2: are all sorts of loopholes in here. And you know,

444
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 2: the more we about the fine print in this budget,

445
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 2: that the worst you like it. I think that it

446
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 2: is interesting to me though, that a month ago I

447
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 2: would have thought that there was no way we could

448
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 2: get any concessions from But remember he was the one

449
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 2: who said it has to be, you know, a depth

450
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 2: bill without any conditions on it. And I think McCarthy did.

451
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: But Steve, let me let me interrupt just for clarification,

452
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to interrupt you, but but for clarification.

453
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: The Republicans in the House did their job. They passed

454
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: a bill, they raised the debt ceiling. It's a four

455
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: point eight trillion scored out by the CBO. It had

456
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: all of the wins in there for the republic Bigans.

457
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 1: Why did they feel the need to negotiate at all

458
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: against themselves? And let you know, we had forty three,

459
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: forty four senators when you had Senator Kennedy that were

460
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: willing to go along with what the House ultimately came

461
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: up with, so they were supposedly holding strong.

462
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 2: Well, you may, you guys both make a very strong point,

463
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 2: and I think that the deal may have been premature.

464
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 2: I think that McCarthy may have panicked a little bit.

465
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 2: And part of the reason was you've got all of

466
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 2: the people in the media and all the people that

467
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 2: buy the administration with this kind of made up story

468
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 2: that if we didn't pass this thing by June fifth,

469
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 2: that we were going to have a default on the debt,

470
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 2: which I mean.

471
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: That's total BS. Everybody knows it that knows anything about

472
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: the economy.

473
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: I have said it many times on your show that

474
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 2: it was total BS. But this was but a lot

475
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 2: of people on Wall Street believed it. And I think,

476
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 2: you know, McCarthy may have panicked a little bit. I

477
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,479
Speaker 2: think the best outcome, frankly, from here, because they're going

478
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 2: to have I believe the vote will be tomorrow that

479
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 2: I think conservatives that say it should say hell, no,

480
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 2: this is not good enough. We're not going to support this,

481
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 2: and force you know, you get some modern Republicans and

482
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 2: then force the Democrats who are the ones who're saying,

483
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 2: oh my god, you know it's gonna be armaged and

484
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 2: if we don't pass the debt ceiling or them to

485
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 2: vote for this. And I'm not hearing that from McCarthy,

486
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 2: but I did talk to Steve Scalife and I told

487
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 2: him exactly that. I said, I said, you know, mister

488
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 2: Majority leader, you've got to get the Democrats to walk

489
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 2: the plank. They're the ones who ran up the debt there.

490
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: But didn't they have the leverage when when they had

491
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: the House bill and they raised the debt ceiling and

492
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: Biden had done nothing and Schumer couldn't even get a

493
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: bill to the floor.

494
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 2: Well, I think again, John, I think you make a

495
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 2: good point. I think that the one the other mistake

496
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 2: that I think McCarthy made strategically is he should have said,

497
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 2: we've got our bill. The Senate is now responsible for

498
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 2: passing a bill, and we're not negotiating until the Chucky

499
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 2: Schumer passes something out of the Senate. But you know what,

500
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,719
Speaker 2: he couldn't get anything out of the Senate. I'm not

501
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 2: on the Republican you can't.

502
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: And I mean that's the point. And I think you're

503
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 1: both kind of more in agreement than I think I

504
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 1: thought you would be. What does this mean for Kevin

505
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: McCarthy now, Steve, people like Dan Bishop think this is

506
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: now headed to a motion to vacate. And I think

507
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: the Democrats will love that, the media will love that.

508
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: And you know, on the other side of it, you

509
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: have you know, the New Green Deal climate alarmist, religious cultist.

510
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: You know they're unhappy with this deal too.

511
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that I you know, I strongly disagree with

512
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 2: a vacator of the show. Has McCarthy played this, you

513
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 2: know perfectly, No, But I think he's done un given. Remember, Sean,

514
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 2: they only have two hundred and twenty two out of

515
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 2: two hundred, you know, what is a three or four

516
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 2: steep majority. So you know, I'm a fan of what

517
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 2: he's done here, but I do think he's made some mistakes.

518
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 1: I think the biggest sounds like a communication error, Dan,

519
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: because it sounds like you guys weren't being kept in

520
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: the loop the whole way as negotiations went forward. You know,

521
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: my recommendation not no nobody ever listens to me, Hangresman.

522
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: Just so you know, my recommendation would have been to

523
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: keep the caucus in the loop before any concessions I

524
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: made and say I got to go back to my

525
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: caucus and ask them, and.

526
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 2: If you're going to concede everything, then that would doubly

527
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 2: be so. And that's really what has happened. Totally correct.

528
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 2: Everything you said, Sean is right. But again I'm not

529
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 2: even clinging to the idea that, yeah, we had the

530
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 2: package of the pass with two eighteen that they said

531
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 2: we could never do, we had passed one. We shouldn't

532
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 2: be negotiating against ourselves. All of that is correct, But

533
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 2: given that we did start negotiating against ourselves where we've

534
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 2: gotten to. And I look forward to some opportunity to

535
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: go point for point with for Steve about his enthusiasm

536
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: for the bill, because there's nothing left to the enthusiastic

537
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 2: about at the end and the and the you.

538
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: Know so look, well, let me ask you, is this

539
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: bill going to pass?

540
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 4: Is you going to get any Republicans voting for this? I,

541
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 4: frankly I think, Sean, it is so bad. And other Republicans,

542
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 4: not Freedom Caucus, not the people who contested the speakers,

543
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 4: the speaker's election jam are coming out Nancy Mace, Corey Mills,

544
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 4: Wesley Hunt, cat Camick. Also who I'm leaving somebody else,

545
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 4: Mike Wallas, who are saying this is catastrophically may We're

546
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 4: not vote for. So here's what I would say, actually, Sean,

547
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 4: is the first step to salvaging this disaster, and that

548
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 4: is that more than half of the Republican Conference needs

549
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 4: to vote against. It needs to pass overwhelming. It's going

550
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 4: to pass with Democrat votes, but it needs to pass.

551
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 4: That needs to be the major voting flankoln and then

552
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 4: there are would what would you both?

553
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of time. Steve will go

554
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: to you first and I'll get back to you. Dan.

555
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: What do you recommend McCarthy do from this point?

556
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 2: I think you've got to go to Biden right away

557
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 2: and say, look, I've got a revolt on the right

558
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 2: against this because of so many of the tricks and

559
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 2: loopholes in this. Mister President, you want to avoid a

560
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: quote default, and we know that's bs charged. You've got

561
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 2: to get, you know, the Democrats. You've got to get

562
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: one hundred to one hundred and fifty Democrats in the

563
00:29:58,800 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 2: House to vote for this.

564
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: I only I don't know if he could pull that

565
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: off either.

566
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 2: Well, okay, well then it's on him, Say Sean, hell

567
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 2: don't click White House and say look, this isn't going

568
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 2: to do it. We're going to need to go back

569
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 2: and do a short term, very short term thirty day

570
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 2: forty five day deal and go back to the table

571
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 2: and get this fixed. That's what he.

572
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: Actually that's not a bad idea. Damn Bishop. Thanks you've

573
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: been with us for the hour. Steve Moore appreciated speaker

574
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: of gingrich On earlier. Thank you all all right eight

575
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578
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579
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580
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Speaker 1: a live signing. By the way, we'll put a link

605
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: on Hannity dot Com at ten eastern tonight. I'm going

606
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607
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: But it'll talk about the Trial of the Century and

608
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: the other news of the day as we continue. I

609
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Speaker 1: hope you found that debate worth while. More tonight on

610
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: Hannity