WEBVTT - Art Is the Missing Pillar of Your Health 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:03.360 Welcome to two percent. I'm your host, Michael Easter. Today 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:05.880 we're going to be talking about these science backed benefits 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.240 of art, whether that is creating it yourself, experiencing it, 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:13.000 or even just taking an artistic mindset to whatever you do. First, 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:15.240 we're going to speak to Daisy Fancourt. She's the world's 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.720 foremost researcher studying the benefits of art. She also wrote 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:20.960 a book called Art Cure. Then we're going to bring 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:24.480 on Jesse Albrick. He's one of my favorite artists. He 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:28.320 does ceramic work that is just mind blowing, beautiful, amazing. 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:30.600 He's also a veteran of the Iraq War, so he's 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:32.159 going to tell us his story. He's going to talk 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:35.640 to us about how the war influences work and why 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:38.640 creativity can be an outlet not only for veterans, with 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.040 everyone else. I'll take a quick break and we'll start 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:53.479 with Daisy. Well, Daisy Fancourt, thank you for coming on 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:54.000 two percent. 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:55.600 It's a pleasure. Thank you for having me. 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:59.120 Okay, here's where I want to start. John Adams said 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:02.959 I must study politics and war that my sons may 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:07.000 have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:10.000 to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:14.960 children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statutary, 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:18.759 tapestry and porcelain, so Adams. In this quote, he seems 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:22.440 to be suggesting that art is the highest pursuit. Why 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:25.160 is art so important for our lives and our well being? 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:29.840 Arts engagement is a fundamental human behavior that's arguably one 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:33.600 of the pinnacles of our evolution as apecies. And we 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:36.479 see very clearly the impact that the arts have, whether 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.720 it's on us as individuals, on our to societies, ways 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:42.480 of challenging and developing our whole way of thinking as humans. 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:45.320 But it's funny hearing that, because I think many people 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:48.640 would really argue or with we're used in society to 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:51.480 thinking about the reverse that actually the arts courses are 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:53.920 the ones that are very much not the necessary, the 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:55.880 ones that can be cut because we should be focusing 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:58.240 all of our attention onto those other subjects instead. 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:01.600 Yeah, you mentioned evolution, So what is the history of 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:04.120 they art? How long has art been around in humanity? 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:05.600 It's a hard thing to figure out. 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:08.760 So actually some of the earliest tangible evidence of the 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.679 art comes from sort of forty odd thousand years ago, 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:17.080 where we've got things like bones, statues, bone flutes, cave paintings, 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:20.280 sort of rhythmic heal patterns that suggest dance in caves. 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.280 But actually there is some even earlier examples. We think 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.160 of the arts actually emerging as a way of supporting 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:30.640 social bonding, with some even arguing that singing evolved as 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:34.040 a way of helping us to connect before language. 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:34.680 Even came into being. 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:37.600 And if that's so, then the arts and some form 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:39.160 may have been with us for a couple of hundred 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.120 thousand years and actually playing a really important role in 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:44.440 our entire survival from the beginning that they emerged. 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.360 That's amazing because I think when people think of the 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:50.480 past and our hunter gatherer ancestors, they assume it was 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.200 all just drudgery. All you do is walk around looking 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:55.560 for food, hunting, and you just hope to survive. But 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:58.480 it turns out people were spending time on I think 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:02.080 what a lot of us today would consider leisure and 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.760 this sort of higher thing we can do with our 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:05.320 free time. 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:08.320 But what's interesting here is that when they were engaging 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:10.839 in arts, it seems to have had a purpose to it. 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:13.480 It was about social bonding or connection or some of 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:16.880 those early examples of the art, like the bone statues, 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:19.639 were of female figures that people think may have been 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:21.760 part of fertility rituals. 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:22.600 So it suggests that. 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:26.000 Arts were actually seen as a fundamental part of everyday 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:29.480 life rather than just to kind of flippant nice thing 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:31.919 to have. They were a necessity rather than luxury. 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:34.200 I love it all right, coach. So to set the stage, 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.280 you did a one hundred and forty six page report 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:41.120 for the World Health Organization reviewed all the research on 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:43.240 how art improves health and well being. You also have 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:47.120 a book called Archer How Art Saves Lives, So big 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:50.600 picture to set the stage, how does art save lives? 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.640 Arts engagement can have so many effects on our health. 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:54.880 One of the things that it can do is help 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:56.880 to enhance our well being, giving us a sense of 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:59.400 meaning and purpose in our lives, which is arguably what 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.440 most people are looking for in a good life. But 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.600 it can also actually impact every system in our body, 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:09.480 our brains, our immune system, our cardiovascular system, and actually 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:13.720 fundamentally impact our risk of developing illness from mental health 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:17.440 problems to physical illness. And if we do develop health challenges, 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:19.520 It can also play a really important role in the 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.880 management and even treatments of psychological and physical symptoms. 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:25.640 What do you think the mechanism is for mental health 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:28.800 benefits and what are those seemed to be You mentioned 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:31.080 sort of lightly on them, but what are some of 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:33.920 the specific benefits we find and what's happening there. 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.039 Well from day to day engagement in the arts. We 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.320 actually see that if people are regularly engaged, they have 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:41.040 about half the risk of developing depression over the next 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:43.720 ten years of their lives, and if they already. 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:44.640 Have symptoms of depression. 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:48.160 For example, ARTS engagement an hour a week for twelve 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:51.599 weeks tends to reduce symptoms by about thirty to forty 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.120 percent in people. These are the same effect sizes that 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.599 we actually see for other kinds of interventions like psychological 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.680 therapies and medication, and the effects to be quite long 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.800 lasting even after the end of finishing sort of three 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:07.039 months of regular ARTS engagements. And part of the reason 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:10.719 for it is that ARTS engagement helps to alter our moods. 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:12.960 It can help us to feel happier when we engage, 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:17.440 releasing neurotransmitters like dopamine that are involved in pleasure. It 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:21.120 can also reduce our stress response systems, so lowering our 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:24.560 heart rate, our blood pressure, stress hormones like cortisol. It 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.760 can also affect inflammation in our immune system, which is 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:31.920 actually very much linked in with depressive feelings, so our 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:35.120 mood has these correlates within our immune system. When we 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:38.599 can see arts engagement influencing both our feelings of moods 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.720 and also those biological markers, and it can also help 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.400 to give us a sense of community and a purpose 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:47.560 and feel good about ourselves to mastery within it as well, 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.440 so it can target multiple aspects of our well being. 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.760 And then physically, what are some of the benefits we'll 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:54.200 see there. 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.279 Physically, if people engage regularly in the arts, we can 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:00.400 see affecting different organ systems, like when we sing, for example, 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.279 that actually helps to improve the strength of respiratory muscles. 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:06.400 If we're regularly engaged in things like dance that have 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:10.600 got that physical components, we see improvements in cardiovascular outcomes 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:14.320 from blood pressure, cholesterol, triglycerides, which are kind of fatty 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:16.320 acids fatty fats. 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:17.000 In our blood. 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.279 We also see that regular engagement have muscular scaltal benefits. 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:24.080 It's literally getting us out and about and keeping us 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:28.040 physically active, so that has a lot of benefits as 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:28.680 we get older. 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:30.159 In particular, so people who. 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.120 Engage regularly in the art are less likely to become 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:36.120 frail or to develop age related signs of decline. 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:37.479 We also see. 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:40.520 Brain effects, so engaging in the art involves so many 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:42.839 regions of our brain. It really is a whole brain 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:47.000 workout which helps to strengthen connections between different regions of 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.160 the brain. And in fact we see that people who 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:53.200 are regularly engaged in the arts are actually younger biologically 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:54.720 and neurologically. 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:56.719 We're going to take a quick break and then Daisy 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:59.160 will explain to physical health benefits that can come from 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:10.880 art that don't involved movement like painting. Is there do 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:15.160 you get physical benefits from arts that don't have a 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.800 movement component like do we see? I don't know, for example, 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:21.680 benefits and heart health from people who are painting or 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:23.400 creating music or anything like that. 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:25.520 You do often through different pathways. 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:27.840 So obviously if you're dancing, it is a form of 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.280 aerobic exercise, so it's in a way it's not surprising 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:34.160 you see health physical health benefits, although interestingly, a lot 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.560 of the trials that compare dance to other aerobic exercise 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:42.120 actually see even greater improvements in many health outcomes from 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.040 the dance because it's not only the physical, it's also 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:48.720 bringing in the social and also the psychological benefits of 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.560 the creativity and the imagination that's involved in those mood 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:54.520 benefits too. But we do see benefits from other kinds 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.880 of non active arts as well. So in fact, my 0:07:57.920 --> 0:07:59.720 team and I have just finished a study where we've 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:03.600 looked at how arts engagement affects patterns of gene expression, 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:06.760 and it actually looks at particular patterns that we call 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.640 epigenetic clocks, which are an indication of where the people 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:14.280 aging biologically faster or slower than their chronological age. And 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:16.000 we see that even the things that are the more 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:19.920 passive arts engagement, like sitting and reading regularly for pleasure, 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:23.440 or doing crafts or being involved in other arts groups, 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:26.600 these are all linked in with a lower epigenetic age, 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.240 the slower biological aging. And we think this is because 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:33.240 arts engagement has such diverse psychological benefits for things like 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:36.320 stress that we know really influence our physical health as well. 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.640 So sort of in totality, I would say, you know, 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:41.800 when people think of how do I improve my health? 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:44.320 They're often going, Okay, well I need to eat better, 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.640 probably should sleep better, I should probably exercise it. But 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:49.760 you know, go to the gym and do my three 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.079 sets of ten raps or whatever. But you argue that 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:56.800 the arts are a fifth pillar of health. They're just 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:00.120 as important of as all of these other things. How 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:01.720 string do you think the research on that? 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:01.960 Is? 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:03.040 The research is. 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:06.120 Really accumulating so rapidly now. I think people are often 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:08.520 surprise when they hear it's now tens of thousands of 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.960 scientific studies on the health benefits of the arts, and 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.640 actually a lot of these are increasingly pitting the arts 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:18.240 against other health behaviors that we're much more familiar with. So, 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.040 for example, the study I just mentioned on epigenetic aging, 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:25.520 we actually directly compared arts for epigenetic aging and physical activity. 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:26.640 They actually had. 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:29.880 The same sized effect on our raid of epigenetic aging, 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.000 which I think is just one example of so many 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:35.320 studies now that are showing these parallel effect sizes between 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.120 arts and other health behaviors, really highlighting that we need 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:39.320 to take the arts more seriously. 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.640 Absolutely, And so from my perspective, sort of going into 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:44.640 this and I thought there would be some benefits. I 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:46.880 was like, yeah, there's probably some research search on this, 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:51.520 and then I came across your massive WHL report and 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:53.400 it was kind of one of those your jaw drops 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:55.840 and goes, oh my god. I didn't realize there was 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.920 this much there there. I mean, it's just fascinating. 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:00.199 It's really exciting. 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:02.160 And actually, if you look at other health behaviors, though, 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:06.040 it's been a similar process of them not being taken 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:07.719 seriously at first, Like if you look back in the 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:10.679 nineteen eighties, there were still these debates about is exercise 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:12.160 good for our health, which. 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:14.400 Is such a hilarious concept to consider now. 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:16.920 And another example I talk about in my book as 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.520 well is seat beltsing cars. Like if you look back 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.200 before the nineteen nineties, nobody wore a seat belting cars. 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.440 People thought it was a ridiculous concept, and it took years, 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.560 decades of scientific research about the impact it has for 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:32.480 our health and survival and lobbying and like really public 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.800 awareness building before suddenly there was this huge sea change 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.839 in awareness and also in people's behaviors. And I think 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.840 that we're getting to that similar seatbelt moment or tipping 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:46.120 point with art engagement. People are actually increasingly becoming aware 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:48.480 of this evidence. It's why I've written this book to 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.720 really try and galvanize that public awareness. And I'm hoping 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.000 that we'll have that similar tipping point where suddenly, in 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:56.680 a few years everybody will be like, well, of course 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:57.880 art is good for our health and. 0:10:57.920 --> 0:10:58.640 We should be doing it. 0:10:58.880 --> 0:10:59.160 Yeah. 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:03.520 I love that question. Do you have to produce art 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:06.400 or make art yourself or can you just consume it 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:08.920 and get a lot of the benefits we're talking about here. 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:11.679 So both have benefits for us, and I'd say you 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:13.680 can think about it a little bit like thinking about 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:15.840 ingredients in a meal, because when we engage in different 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:18.600 arts activities, they all have different ingredients. Like some are 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:23.080 more social, some are involve more different sensory stimulations. Some 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:25.599 are involving our own creativity and imagination. 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.920 Some are more physical. So naturally, the things where we are. 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:33.800 Producing and having to really get involved ourselves, those can 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.800 bring additional benefits of their own. They might support our 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:41.160 feelings of mastery or self esteem if we're creating things ourselves. 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:43.920 But actually they're more sort of so called receptive things 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:48.080 like reading books or watching films or going to the theater. 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:51.560 These also have lots of benefits, particularly because they tend 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:55.160 to expose us to lots of new emotions, new storylines 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.240 that can challenge our way of thinking. So they might 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:00.160 influence us in different ways, but often we actually see 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.600 quite similar health outcomes, particularly for outcomes that are quite 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:04.679 broad like mental health. 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:09.880 Yeah, speaking of mental health, there's part of your report 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:12.640 and your work is looked at behavioral health, especially with 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:13.840 kids and teens and arts. 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:14.760 What have you found there. 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:17.800 Interestingly, there's a lot of research now growing about the 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:21.480 benefits the arts engagement has for supporting children in developing 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:22.400 their own behaviors. 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:24.199 So we see that young people who are. 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:27.240 Regularly engaged in the arts actually have better levels of 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.839 self control and self esteem, and they're actually less likely 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:35.040 to develop behavioral problems and also to get involved in 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.520 antisocial or criminalized behaviors. That some of this is probably 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.240 displacement effects. You know, if you're spending your time doing arts, 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.199 you might not have as much time to be sort 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.240 of staying out on the streets or getting into trouble 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.040 for example. But actually the fact that the artists do 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:52.080 nurture those core skills like empathy and helping to put 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:54.520 ourselves in other people's shoes, which is known as theory 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:58.600 of minds. Those are very very important psychological skills that 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:02.400 we build up through and interestingly, when we're looking at narrative, 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:06.000 at things that are involving stories, they're particularly important for 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.280 young people because it means that they are feeding their 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:12.200 brains with different scenarios, different emotions, and they're having to 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.240 practice how to manage those emotions, but also how to 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:18.920 imagine how they would respond to all of those different scenarios. 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:21.959 And that's what young people's brains are constantly doing, trying 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:24.440 to build up their repertswire of how they can respond 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:28.079 to really complex situations and be resilient in them as well. 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:29.360 And by giving us. 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.079 All of those different exposures through art, we're actually building 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:36.160 what's called the predictive coding abilities of young people's brains. 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.600 So what do you tell parents? What's the takeaway for parents? 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.480 Does it just get your kids involved in any art 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:45.600 at all, or what's the sort of path in the 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:48.600 basket There is there a specific dose the research findes, 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:49.600 or what does that look like? 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.400 So I think in young children the sort of main 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:54.800 message and I have young kids myself, so I've definitely 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:57.360 been learning this on a fly, But the main message 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.920 is just to embrace creativity across day to day whenever 0:13:59.920 --> 0:14:02.560 you can. So kids are so naturally good at this, 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:06.280 like they're constantly singing or dancing, or acting out bits 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.280 of stories or wanting to read and doing crafts, and 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.760 I think really embracing those, even if they're just those 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.960 micro moments that get scattered across the day, because that's 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:18.920 so important for developing their creativity and giving them those 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:20.760 exposure to emotions. 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:21.960 And to storylines. 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:24.120 As young people get older, I think there are new 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.400 opportunities that can be added in, like giving them new 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:32.080 novel art experiences. So I love taking my kids to 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:35.400 watch street musicians buskers in our town because it's such 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.040 an easy way to be exposed to music. There's no 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:39.920 pressure to sit down for an hour or two. You 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.280 can just have those micro moments. But it's giving them 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.680 those fresh perspectives and starting to go to other shows 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.960 or gigs or festivals that can give them that exposure 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:52.080 is exciting. And if they can develop a creative hobby 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.680 that they have that chance to work at and build 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:58.240 that sense of self esteem and mastery, that can be 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:00.960 really really important in building a strong sense of self 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.640 and confidence in a strong community as well as they're 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:04.560 getting older. 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.880 So social media takes a lot of heat around kids 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:10.760 and mental health. At the same time, I think you 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.720 could argue that social media is a creative outlet. It 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:19.200 can be something where you're creating content that took creativity 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:21.560 and it's interesting and it's almost a form of art. 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:23.440 So what are your thoughts on that, How do you 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:25.960 see the balance and so a big question. 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:26.680 It's true. 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.800 I think social media is sometimes sort of demonized as 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.080 being a bad thing, but you're right that there can 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.760 be a creative content component here and they can also 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:39.440 I've increasingly seen this trend amongst young people which is 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:43.640 doing what's called granny hobbies, so things like textiles, approache, 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.840 these kinds of things, which is incredibly rude name for them, 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.680 but it's been really trending of young people actually getting 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:53.720 off their phones doing the crafting is a similar small 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:55.080 activity with your hands that. 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:56.040 You can do in a few minutes. 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:59.400 But then they've been sharing their outputs back on social media. 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.280 So I think for me, the really important component comes 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.400 down to, is there the creativity and the imagination involved 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.520 in this and also, what is it that you're trying 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:11.800 to share with this. If it's about sharing those creative products, 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.880 that's a little bit different from sharing self images. Is 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:17.000 this about putting your self esteem into the art that 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:20.040 you're involved in as supposed to about your own looks 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:22.000 or your own selfies that are sort of coming out 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:24.160 of this, And I think that can be a helpful 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:28.160 differentiator in what is undoubtedly quite a complex balance and 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:29.160 blurred line. 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:33.640 So one thing that I loved I'll be thinking about 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.840 this next time I visited a hospital is how you 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:41.720 wrote about how having art, different forms of art in 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.320 hospitals can help patient outcomes. 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:45.520 What have you found there? 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.120 So we've I used to work in hospitals in the UK, 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:51.840 so I actually came out of at LEAs clinical programs 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:55.840 and I was constantly really inspired by the impact that 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:58.200 these programs have. I got to see firsthand that actually 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:01.640 there were scenarios arts could offer things that actually medication couldn't. 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:03.800 And I talk about some of these in the book, 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:05.600 like the role that arts can play for example, and 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:08.840 end of life care and really connecting families and supporting 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:13.520 processes like bereavement and grief, which is such a complex topic, 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.679 but one where we actually instinctively turn to the arts 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:18.680 to support us in that time in societies all around 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.080 the world. But there are also some other really interesting 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.520 clinical contexts where I actually think we're being less safe 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:26.560 and less ethical by not. 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:28.159 Incorporating the arts and hospitals. 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.919 So one example of that is thinking about surgical settings, 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:35.320 where anxiety is naturally a big thing for people if 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.080 they're going in to have surgeries, and actually if we 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.800 do something as simple as play recorded music for people 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.879 before and after their surgeries, we actually see really marked 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.240 reductions in their own anxiety levels, but also in the 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.879 amount of sedatives that they need and the amount of 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:54.560 opioids that people need as well. And in fact, studies 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.160 that have directly compared playing music to giving people anti 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:01.800 anxiety meds show the music is more effective than the 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:06.119 meds at reducing surgical anxiety. And given with talking about 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.320 big issues like opoid crises and things which often can 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:13.280 be triggered by things like having opioids following routine surgeries, 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:15.720 using things like the arts as a way of helping 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:20.200 people with more organic analgusics in natural analgusics, which is 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:24.560 exactly what music provides, is a really powerful cost saving 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.280 and almoso potentially life saving things to be thinking about. 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.199 So should patients be advocating I want to take in 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.000 my favorite playlist before my surgery. 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:33.680 Is that how this plays out? 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:34.080 Well? 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:35.840 I think that's a great thing if people can remember 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:37.760 to be taking in those playlists. But I also think 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.280 it's something that we can be providing so easily in hospitals. 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.040 When I worked at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital in London, 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.520 we actually worked with Brian Eno, the composer, and he 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.600 developed this digital artwork that we placed in the booths 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.399 that patients waited in before their surgeries, and he had 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:54.560 his ambient music playing as well, and it was such 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:56.600 a lovely thing for the hospital then to be offering 0:18:57.359 --> 0:18:59.199 that men. Even if people forgot to bring in their 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:01.120 own music or what sure what to listen to, they 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.600 had that really relaxing exposure before their operation. 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:07.360 That's incredible. You mentioned art in end of life care. 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:09.080 How does that actually play out? What does it look 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:09.920 like and what have you found? 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:12.359 So when I worked at Chelsea and Westminster, I remember 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:14.879 working on one of the wards, their palliative careward, where 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:17.520 there was a man who asked if he could have 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:20.360 music for his final hours, and his family were around him, 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:22.760 and we had a guitarist in the hospital that day, 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:26.160