1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 4 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. They 5 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: call me Ben. Our compatriot Knell is away for the moment, 6 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: but never fear. Our super producer Paul Decont is here. 7 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: Most importantly, you're here, and you are you that makes 8 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: this stuff they don't want you to know. Now, you 9 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: may recall our very first episode ever on a gentleman 10 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: named Edward Berney's one of the most important and uh 11 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: slightly obscure, at least until our episode came out thinkers 12 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: in history right, Yes, the the man commonly known as 13 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: the father of public relations, the most famous, the most 14 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: famous relative of Sigmund Freud in our modern age. Both 15 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 1: of those things are true. If you're a fan of 16 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: this show and you haven't listened to that episode of 17 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: the podcast, it is one of the few that Matt 18 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: Nike had agorically recommend you listen to and share with 19 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: your friends, family, and colleagues. Without going too far into 20 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: what happens in that episode, Let's put it this way. 21 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: Edward Bernets is the reason that you and your loved ones, 22 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: as well as your enemies to probably practice several things 23 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: that seem normal today seem normal, Yeah, because you know 24 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: that very very quickly. It's insane how quickly people can 25 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: become accustomed to something, something that is not normal, and 26 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden becomes normal to the average individual, 27 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: to an our community perhaps or even civilization as a whole, 28 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: something that was never done before and now it's normal. Right. Yeah, 29 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: it's likewise astonishing how rarely we question bizarre things. So 30 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,239 Speaker 1: often we hide behind the idea of tradition as a species, 31 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: I mean, or so often we uh, we don't ask 32 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: fundamental questions about why something has framed the way it 33 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: is or presented the way it is. For instance, why 34 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: do we eat bacon for breakfast? This was not the 35 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: case for the vast majority of human eras on this planet. 36 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: Why are we actually at war with a particular country 37 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: at any given time? And one that I always go 38 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: back to as as a strange example here is Matt, 39 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: why why do people wear ties like neck ties? Oh? Well, 40 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 1: it's because of the form. It's all about form, not 41 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 1: so much function. Uh yeah, it just looks really good 42 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: to have that line going down the chest. Someone's read 43 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: a couple of fashion guides. I see, yes, make it work. 44 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: So there, Yeah, that's that's a good point. We did 45 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: earlier on a different show that we've worked within the 46 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 1: past called brain Stuff. We looked at the origin of 47 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: where neckties come from. And Matt, you are spot on correct. 48 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: It serves no function. It's not I was talking from 49 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: that took us. It's not a it's not a functional thing. 50 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: That took us is more functional than an actie. So 51 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: leading to this, why why does a country work a 52 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: certain way? Folks think about the government in the country 53 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: that you live in today or the governments in countries 54 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: used to live in. Right, how closely does the government 55 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: in practice adhere to the theory of government as outlined 56 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: in your country's constitution or other documents? Yeah, wres this? 57 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: You know? Getting it right? For some of the most part, well, 58 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: most people, regardless of where they live, will generally agree 59 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: that there is at least some degree of difference between 60 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: the government on paper and the government in practice. Right, 61 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: And in some cases this can seem like a relatively 62 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: obscure difference, right, or it can seem like a matter 63 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: of persnickety, nitpicking interpretation. But speaking of obscure, today's episode 64 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: focuses on another figure, sort of like bern As, another 65 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: profoundly important, equally obscure historical figure, Walter Lippmann. Now when 66 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,359 Speaker 1: we say he's obscure, we mean to the public, to 67 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: the every day Joe and Jane walking around. Uh, they 68 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: probably don't know who Walter Lippan is. I did not 69 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: know who this person was until we started thinking about 70 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: this episode and reading some of the materials. Um just 71 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: like Edward Berne. But but these gentlemen were very much 72 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: well known within circles of the powerful. I think we 73 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: should at least like put that out there right like 74 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: they were. They were the guy. Yeah, yeah, the we were. 75 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: It's funny because before Paul, Matt and I went on 76 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: air today, I brought in a a fancy glass for 77 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: my typical coffee because we are talking about the elite, 78 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: and it looks like an absentthe glass. Gotta be honest 79 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: with you, Well, I'll tell you what it is. Truth 80 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: be told. Not as convenient as the regular mug or 81 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: cup that I would typically use, but you know tradition. 82 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: So so here are the facts. About Walter Lippmann. As 83 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: we said nowadays, Walter Lippman is, let's say, obscure enough 84 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: that were you to walk on a on the average 85 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: city street and ask someone you know identify the following figures, say, 86 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: you know Neil Armstrong, probably know that, No, he's some 87 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 1: sort of astronaut. Maybe at the least identify you know, 88 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: the big current or past presidents. They probably probably at 89 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: least recognized the name of past presidents, right. Uh. But 90 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: if you said, who's Walter Lippman, they would say does 91 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: he Does he on the grocery store? I don't know, unless, 92 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: of course, you were asking someone in Harvard, and then 93 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 1: the answer might very well be I think that's a 94 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: building on campus. I'm pretty building. But as you said, Matt, 95 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: in his day, this man was profoundly influential and remains so, 96 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 1: so let's get to know him a little bit. Walter 97 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: Lippman was born on September eight nine, eighteen eighty nine, 98 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: in New York. He was a child of privilege. He 99 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: attended the Sacks School for Boys before matriculating into Harvard. 100 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: Now Sacks by the way, s A C. H. S. 101 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: You might recognize that name somewhere with a goldman in 102 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: front of it, like golden sax yes um. And this 103 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: is where he studied at Harvard under the famous philosopher 104 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: and novelist George Santayana, who was a teacher of numerous 105 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: other numerous other people who went on to become literary lions. 106 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: You know, T. S. Eliott would be one of the 107 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: most famous examples. Then in May of nineteen ten, he 108 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: began his career in journalism as a cub reporter with 109 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: the Boston Common after he dropped out of his the 110 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: master's course that he was taking at Harvard University. And 111 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: this this is interesting because we found a couple of 112 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: different things in the research. Will find many biographies to 113 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: say he graduated right in nineteen ten, and then you'll 114 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: find other writers who say that he dropped out. Yeah, 115 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: so either way, he did go to Harvard. At some 116 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: point he was assistant to the philosopher novelist George Santiana. Uh. 117 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirteen, Lippman co founded a paper called The 118 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: New Republic. It's a liberal American magazine. The published articles 119 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: on politics and and the arts and UH. In that 120 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: same year he published a book called A Preface to 121 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: Politics and his writing, his philosophy at this time, in 122 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: this early phase, garnered the attention of one Woodrow Wilson. 123 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: Just a little side note there about the New Republic 124 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: at the time when he founded it, in quite for 125 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 1: quite some time afterwards, it had a fairly small readership 126 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: of only you know, ten to twenty thousand people. But 127 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: the people reading that magazine were the important people, right, 128 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: the bankers, the professors, the jurists. And in nineteen fourteen 129 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: Lippman was appointed as an advisor to President Wilson Woodrow Wilson, 130 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: and during this time he helped the president draft a 131 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: famous speech about World War One and was called the 132 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: Fourteen Points. You can read it in full online today. 133 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: So Lippman was at this point an interventionist in a 134 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 1: largely isolationist society. And what what we mean by that 135 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: is that the majority of the US public did not 136 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:49,479 Speaker 1: support foreign intervention because there was this feeling that, well, one, 137 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: why should we get involved, right, It's it's imperialist on 138 00:09:53,920 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: some level. And two we're separated by oceans, right, and 139 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: there's no imminent threat at this point in this isolationist society, 140 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: Lippman was an interventionist. He was one of the people 141 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: who argued that it was both rational and advantageous for 142 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 1: the United States to enter into World War One in 143 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: some capacity or another. He wrote propaganda that was meant 144 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 1: to sway the needle on public support. Right, because in 145 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:41,959 Speaker 1: a representative democracy, the theory goes that the voters must 146 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: support a large scale government action, or at least the 147 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 1: majority of voters must support something for it to occur. Yes, 148 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: because the representative part of that government, the the people's 149 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: part of the government in Congress, they are the ones 150 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 1: that actually declare war in an act war, especially at 151 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: this time for World War One. So you had to 152 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: get the voters and the people's voice to say, yes, 153 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: let's do this. And so Lippman and Edward Bernese both 154 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: worked for what was called the Committee on Public Information. 155 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: I love that name, the Committee on Public Information. And 156 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 1: this was a wartime propaganda institution built to do two things. First, 157 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: to spread or propagate pro intervention, pro war literature, art, music, 158 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: anything in pop culture, as well as academic arguments for 159 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: intervention on the part of the US. And then the 160 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 1: second task was to suppress, discredit, or destroy anything that 161 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 1: was anti war. So if you uh, just pulling an 162 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: example out of thin air, right, and one way in 163 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: which something like this might occur still happens today, it 164 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: happened for decades after, uh, would be Let's say there 165 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: are two there are two art galleries in a town, 166 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: and one of them has has a featured artist who 167 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: is glorifying the moral duty or imperative to save people 168 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: in another country. And this this gallery is filled with 169 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: this one artist work. And then in the other gallery, uh, 170 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: there's someone who has a exhibits about imperialism and the 171 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: unintentional tyranny of intervening, whatever your intentions, in a culture 172 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: you don't understand and a civilization that never asked for 173 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: nor needed your help. What this sort of operation would 174 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: do would not be to have the government openly shot 175 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: them down. You would have critics from newspapers praising whichever side, 176 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what side we're talking about. We have 177 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: critics praising the interventionist if they want to intervene, or 178 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: praising the isolationists, and then you would have them also 179 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: dismissing or ignoring the other side of that cultural argument. 180 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: And it's like it's almost this um uh soft aggression 181 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: tactic that that is employed by this stuff, and in 182 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: a weird way, it's it's not fully going after a 183 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: lot of times, at least from what I was reading 184 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: this research, the the Committee on Public Information wouldn't necessarily 185 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: physically go after anyone, but they would use the media to, 186 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: like you said, ben, completely ignore or just trash something 187 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: that they didn't agree with. Right, yes, exactly. And the 188 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: most important part of that is in these sorts of operations, 189 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: you wouldn't know the ultimate force behind this trend. It 190 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: would appear to be and this is the most important part, 191 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: it would appear to be an organic consensus arrived at 192 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: by every Jane John and Jimmy Smith in America, just 193 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: to pick I don't know, ridiculous. It's almost like the 194 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: rotten tomato score. If the tomato score is at a 195 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: certain height, or you know, if it's in the eighties, 196 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, man, okay, I'm gonna go see that. 197 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: You don't even have to read the stuff about it. 198 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: If it's in like the thirties or twenties, and then oh, 199 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: I'm never probably not gonna go see that trash because 200 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: you don't have time usually if you're the average person 201 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: to go through and read every single review now you 202 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: want the bottom line the best news, Explain it to 203 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: me now, because I'm almost off the elevator, right or 204 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: the light almost turned green, as the case would be 205 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: from any communities, only have twenty bucks to spend, and 206 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: I gotta choose where I'm gonna spend it. Even better, 207 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: Lippman also traveled the world and wrote extensively, prolifically. That's 208 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: that's such a fantastic dream life. You know. I think, 209 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: here I am in Vienna, and here was my thoughts 210 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: on the Viennese. Oh, man, you want to be Anthony 211 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: Boordain so badly, don't you? Lippin know you? Oh you 212 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: know what? You know what? Uh? A little food centric? 213 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, I think he's doing a great job 214 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: being Anthony boording Okay, but but I appreciate it. Yeah, 215 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: I'd love Who wouldn't love to travel the world and write? 216 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, I can't think of anyone. So 217 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: Lippman was no exception to that, that rule that we 218 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: have arbitrarily decided as almost universal. So then on September eight, 219 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: n Lippman's column for The New York Herald, which was 220 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: called Today and Tomorrow. I love that title. It first appeared, 221 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: and eventually this was syndicated to more than two and 222 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: fifty newspapers within the United States and then another twenty 223 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: five other nations. And then it also won two Pulitzer Prizes, 224 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: one in ninety eight and another in nineteen sixty two. 225 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: So in his day, Walter Lippman was a world famous 226 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: columnist for the New York Times and other papers of note, 227 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: and overall the world held his opinion in tremendously high regard. 228 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: He lived amid New York's elite and therefore a a 229 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: percentage of the world's elite. He dined with presidents, he 230 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: would write speeches for them, He advised them in formal 231 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: and informal capacities. He was a true man behind the curtain. 232 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: So let's talk about what he truly believed in. Right, Yeah, 233 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: this so well and good? But why why is he 234 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: the subject of today's episode? Uh? Is he them? Is 235 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: he that? They? And stuff? They don't want you to know. 236 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: What did he actually leave? We'll tell you after a 237 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. So let's bring the rubber to 238 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 1: the road. Matt Walter Lippman is responsible for creating, popularizing, 239 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: coining several terms that you have almost certainly used at 240 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: some point in your life, friends and neighbors. The first 241 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: one is the well let's let's do let's do one 242 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: that's little us specific first, that's the Cold War. He 243 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: is the person who popularized the term Cold war with 244 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 1: a series of articles Inn called the Cold War right 245 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 1: pretty good. When you title something, it's probably gonna stick. Uh. 246 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: In those articles, he was speaking out against President Truman's 247 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: policy of containment. Uh. And the more popular term that 248 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: you have you have obviously heard. There's no one who 249 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 1: has not heard this, this term, at least no one 250 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: that speaks English has not heard this term. And that 251 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: is stereotype. Yes. One of his works, Public Opinion, It 252 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: begins with the world outside and the Pictures in our heads. 253 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: This is the chapter that introduced his idea of a stereotype, 254 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: what what a stereotype is? And Uh. It explained how 255 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: public opinion was formed and how it was manipulated because 256 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 1: of what we trust as what he called an authentic messenger. So, 257 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: as we mentioned before, Littman was working um with the 258 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: Committee on Public Information also called the Creole Committee, and 259 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: they were influencing public opinion by censoring information that was 260 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: anti war they're also producing thousands of these pro war 261 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: pamphlets and cartoons and magazines, movies, all kinds of media. Also, 262 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: the USA enter World War One or World War let's say, 263 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventeen it wasn't a one at the time, nobody, 264 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 1: nobody was waiting for the sequel. But the whole idea 265 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: is that the United States said it was not going 266 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: to enter World War One no matter what, and this 267 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: committee is sitting there actively trying to make it happen. Right. So, this, 268 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: this idea of a stereotype, the picture in our heads 269 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: versus the world outside is is the subject of a 270 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: great deal thought in public opinion in the Lippman book. 271 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: In this work, he attempts to explain how these pictures 272 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: that arise almost spontaneously in people's minds. He was hoping 273 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: to explain how those come about. The most simple way 274 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: to say it would be that, according to Lippman, we 275 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: all live in these second hand worlds, and we live 276 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: this way because we are aware of much more than 277 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: we have ever personally experienced. You know, we like Neil Armstrong, 278 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: we know that astronauts exist, but many people have never 279 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,479 Speaker 1: met and we'll never meet one we know that billionaires exist, 280 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: but many people have never met and will never meet. 281 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: When we know that what Reddit loves this joke about 282 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: this town in Germany that everyone says doesn't exist. Maybe 283 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: a better example would be Bhutan. You know, the nation 284 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 1: of Bhutan exists, but many people will never go there. 285 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: According to this, Lipman's argument is that our own personal 286 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: experience is primarily second hand, primarily indirect. We read about things, 287 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: we watch things about things, and hope that the people 288 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: who have experienced it directly are telling us something objective, rational, 289 00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: and accurate. Yeah, in other words, the truth. That's why 290 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: when you get Mermaids on Discovery Channel, you're like, what, 291 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 1: oh boy, sorry, I think enough time has passed for 292 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: us to tell people we've talked about it before. So 293 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: here's another aspect. What did he think of democracy? Because 294 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: you see, Lippmann wouldn't have considered himself just a journalist. 295 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: In fact, he considered himself a public philosopher, and most 296 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: of his work centered around the concept of democracy in 297 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: all its forms, representative democracy, so on. So what did 298 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: you think of it? Unfortunately it's a terrifying question. Early 299 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: on he was optimistic about this American US flavor of democracy. 300 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: He embraced what we will call a Jeffersonian perspective. He 301 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: believed that the American public would become intellectually engaged in 302 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: political world issues and that they would fulfill the ultimate 303 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: role of the public right, which is to be an 304 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 1: educated electorate. Not only does everyone vote, but everyone understands 305 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 1: the issues of play and why they're voting the way 306 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: that they do. If you ask them who the h 307 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: if you ask them who the county commissioner is going 308 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: to be and why, they would know. If you ask 309 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: them about humanitarians spending in you know, Yemen or in 310 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: Mauritania or something, not only would they know their position 311 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: on it, but they would know why, Yeah, do you 312 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 1: support engaging Germany and defending Poland or you know, some 313 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: something to that effect. And you would hope that the 314 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: person would come back with a reasoned argument about why 315 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: or why not. That would be nice. Sure, well that 316 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: was that That's the optimistic view. But with the rule 317 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: of industrialization weighing heavy in his mind the events leading 318 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: to World War Two and the spread of totalitarianism, Lippman 319 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: came to reject this view. Instead, he felt that nobody 320 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: was questioning fundamental assumptions of democracy. Yeah, he didn't believe 321 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: democracy as we understand it was working at all, And specifically, 322 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: he didn't believe that the average citizen was in any 323 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: way qualified to have any kind of input in the 324 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: rebel of politics or in the actions of the state, 325 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: and basically that the public was being led around like 326 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: this pack of animals by journalists and the media and 327 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: people who reported what the government was saying. Right. During 328 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties, Lippman published two more books which were 329 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: criticisms indictments of humanity. They were, in the parlance of 330 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: our time, they were distracts, right mix like hot mixtape distracts. 331 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: One was called Criticizing Democracy, one was called Public Opinion, 332 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: and the other was called The Phantom Public. The American voter, 333 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: Lippman claimed, was not capable of acting out of any 334 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: rational collective self interest or even fully considering the issues 335 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 1: at hand in a rational way, not only not having 336 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: an answer to a question, but not understanding the question. Instead, 337 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: he said, the average voter was ill informed, my opic, 338 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: and prone to fits of enthusiasm. So in his disillusionment, 339 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: if we were to put it in a modern context, 340 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: would be something along the lines of, hey, you are 341 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 1: supposed to vote in every election based on your aggregate calculation, 342 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,360 Speaker 1: whenever that might be of who becomes the best candidate, right, 343 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: or why you think a certain local law shoot or 344 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: should not be in place. When he says that a 345 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:10,360 Speaker 1: voter is ill informed, he means that they He means 346 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 1: they don't know what they're talking about, right, they don't 347 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 1: understand the issue for one reason or another. And when 348 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: he says biopic, he means that they might be what's 349 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 1: often called a single issue voter, someone who says, well, 350 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: I will typically vote, you know, for a certain ideological 351 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: standpoint or a certain party line, but the only thing 352 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 1: I really care about is, you know, the the the 353 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: illegality of owning a will to beast. I think it 354 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: should be illegal. I think that, you know, the country's 355 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: going to hell in a handbasket if one more person 356 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: can own a will to beast. Well, yeah, and that's 357 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 1: that's what I vote on. That's it. And that's that's 358 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: where you get some of the more social issues becoming 359 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: the most prominent things that are spoken about in the media. 360 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: Shoure you think about stances on abortion or stances on 361 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: Second Amendment rights, things that aren't necessarily the most important 362 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: things to be focusing on, but they become the one 363 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 1: thing that the voter will latch onto. And that's the 364 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: craziest part because essentially it makes this an exercise in 365 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: mad lib in a very dangerous way. Uh. I hope 366 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: everybody has had the wonderful opportunity to play mad lib 367 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: on a road trip or something growing up. But mad 368 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: lib is a game wherein you ask talking to people 369 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: like they don't know what mad libs are. I feel 370 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: like we can't make assumptions. I guess, so, yeah, you're right, 371 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,360 Speaker 1: what are you? Let's let's tell people what mad lives are. 372 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: You do it, but do it in the voice, okay? Uh? 373 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: Mad lives you, guys, is where you got a bunch 374 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 1: of blanks in a sentence, a long set of sentences perhaps, 375 00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: and you fill those blanks in with nouns and adjectives, adverbs, 376 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: and then you read the whole thing and you've got 377 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 1: this jumble whacked noodle sentence. I feel like you are 378 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: unfairly criticizeing v I I don't know, not everybody, okay 379 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: it maybe maybe everybody knows what bath libs are. You 380 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: think they do I don't know. I think you're I 381 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: think we're somewhere in the middle. Some people don't know 382 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: what they are, but people who are listening to this podcast, 383 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: yeah probably do. Okay, all right, okay, right in conspiracy 384 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: and how stuff works, that come you know what a 385 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: mad lib is. So so the reason I'm setting that up, Matt, 386 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: is because the it's it's a fundamental assumption that you 387 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 1: and I are making. That absolutely right, people would all 388 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 1: know what a mad lib is and how it functions. Right, 389 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: And so the idea of fits of enthusiasm, right, that's 390 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: the last the last piece of his his primary criticism there. Uh, 391 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,719 Speaker 1: the idea of fits of enthusiasm would be the best 392 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: explained today by social media. Right, So you see a 393 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: post and it's shared over and over. Look at all 394 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: these assholes buying wilde beast, you know what I mean? 395 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: This has to stop. And then all of a sudden, 396 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 1: somebody who ordinarily would never vote whenever, you know, go 397 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: to a protest or maybe even isn't that active, uh, 398 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 1: and their social media. Right, then all of a sudden 399 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 1: it's the most important thing, you know. And we we've 400 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: talked a little bit about the really uh, really depressing, 401 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 1: borderline disgusting news cycle that occurs not just in mass media, 402 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: broadcast media, but also in social media, where where you 403 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: see a tragedy, a real, genuine tragedy occur and then 404 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: two weeks later, the people who were incredibly incensed about 405 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: it have completely forgotten because now, god forbid, someone wears 406 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: something stupid at an award show, which I know it 407 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: sounds brutal, but that that's the fact of the matter. 408 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: So that's what I think he's talking about when he 409 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: says fits of enthusiasts. I think you're absolutely right. And 410 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: another thing that you could kind of lop into that 411 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: would be the sloganism that has occurred at least in 412 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: the past two elections, and it occurs throughout American elections. 413 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: But having yes we can chanted by people and then 414 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: put on bumper stickers and then that's that single sentimentality 415 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,959 Speaker 1: of yes we can do it, becoming this moving force 416 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: for voters and then make America great again as well. 417 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: Just something that encapsulates the enthusiasm of the people who 418 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: you are trying to get behind you oh yeah, I 419 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: don't know, or or denigrades the the value of the 420 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: perception of people are institutions that are against what you 421 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: want to have happen, right, like dirty wilde beasters. I 422 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: don't know. I'm just gonna ride this wilde beeste comparison 423 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: to the ground. Oh boy, yeah, we ah, we could. 424 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: I should have Oh there we go. I should have 425 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: picked a better I should have picked a better animal. 426 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: I think will be so great. I'm actually I'm learning 427 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: about wilde beast. Uh for an unrelated thing happens to 428 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: the best of us. Sounds a little sketchy, but it's 429 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: a it's a true story, right in, let us know 430 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: about your experiences with wilde beast. So this this idea 431 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,719 Speaker 1: that voters will tend to not know what's going on, 432 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: will tend to focus on only one thing, and will 433 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: tend to uh impulsively lash out and sporadic burst or 434 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: impulsively participate in sporadic first rather than continually exercising the 435 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: rights and responsibilities of citizenship. Uh. This, he argued, was 436 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: being used to insidious advantage by other forces in play. Yeah, 437 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: he thought other parts of the government perfected the art 438 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: of manipulating the public. It's this idea of manufacturing consent. 439 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: You might recognize that phrase from some of Noam Chomsky's work. 440 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: He took it directly from Walter Littman, and he stated 441 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: that before, um, like, you know, it's this idea of right, 442 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: we've always been at war with East Asia? Oh man, Right, 443 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: I thought we had always been at war with Oceana. 444 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: Another one of Littman's beliefs was that the American people's 445 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: increasing obsession with consumerism was causing them to have a 446 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: decreased awareness and concern for pressing public issues. So basically, 447 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: they were being distracted by constantly wanting to buy new things, 448 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: upgrade at this point, their house, upgrade, their lives, um 449 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: and the things around them, rather than the larger issues 450 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: that were looming overhead. Okay, I see, So that the 451 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: idea then that keeping up with the Joneses becomes one 452 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: of the number one policy issues for a household. Well yeah, yeah, 453 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: just the You're absolutely right. The policy issue is now 454 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: within the home and the clothes that you're wearing and 455 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: the food that you're eating. And it's just it doesn't 456 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: matter if there's something going on in Europe. Right, I 457 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: see all these people posting these high minded, sanctimonious arguments 458 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: about owning wild animals, But did they even have a refrigerator, 459 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: did they even have cable? And where are they posting them? 460 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: And then like a bulletin board. That's what it is, 461 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: the community bulletin board. Yeah, at the corners at the 462 00:32:54,440 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: general store. Yeah, good call. Though Matt so he felt 463 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: that journalism was partially to blame for this because it 464 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: was not fulfilling what he saw as its correct duties, 465 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: which again in theory on paper, would be providing rational, 466 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: accurate information. And one big issue for him in this 467 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: regard was what was known as muckraking or what we 468 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: call investigative journalism. If we want to put a necktie 469 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: on it, uh, And he he objected to this because 470 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: he saw as a means to foment distrust of public 471 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: institutions and officials. And then Flipman wondered, you know what, 472 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: why should someone who isn't a physicist have a voice 473 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: in conversations about physics? And you know that makes sense, 474 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: right if the if the physicists of the world are 475 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: all one room and they're arguing about the the latest 476 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: theory and physics, right, and and what we can learn 477 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: the future rushes towards us infinite in its promise, and 478 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: it's danger. And then there's one guy who's not a physicist. 479 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: He's just like in the room, he's a psychiatrist. Okay, 480 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: sure he's qualified in something else. Maybe he's a psychiatrist. 481 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: What what can he lend to this conversation. I happen 482 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: to think psychiatrist would be able to lend a lot 483 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: of insight into a conversation with physicist. Yeah, he just 484 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 1: he's he can't spell very well. So he saw the 485 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 1: sign on the door coman physicist, and he thought he 486 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: was in the right place. There we go. That seems 487 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: to make sense right on some level. So Lippman, if 488 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,760 Speaker 1: you can imagine him scratching his chin for a second 489 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: here and thinks, yeah, that checks out. So how is 490 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: the world of politics any different? And we'll explore Lehman's 491 00:34:54,480 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: thought on that right after this. This is the dangerous part. 492 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: No single individual, Lippmann thought, could easily understand the complexity 493 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: of the modern world. There's just too much stuff going on. Furthermore, 494 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: he believed that the idea of an authentic public opinion, 495 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 1: meaning a consensus or agreement formed by people who were 496 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: knowledgeable about public affairs and interested in public affairs. He 497 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: believed this was mainly a myth. This was a unicorn, 498 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,720 Speaker 1: this was winning the lottery seventeen times in two weeks. 499 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 1: I guess it could happen. Yeah, you would have to 500 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: have a lot of things go perfectly right in order 501 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: to achieve that state. I think so. I think perhaps 502 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 1: Littman might be on the right track there, But he's 503 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: a bit polarizing about he's just one way or the 504 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 1: other way. He proposed that the most effective form of 505 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: governance would be a world in which the elite, the cognocenti. Oh, 506 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: the cognisenti. That's uh, those who are in the know, 507 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: just like you listening out there. Um, he thought they 508 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: would have. If these people had all of the authoritative agency, 509 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: then they could make these benevolent, indisputable decisions for all 510 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 1: of us, the unwashed masses, right, the hoi poloi, the peasants, 511 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: the uneducated. That that's actually you and me and Ben 512 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: according to them, but not Paul. Paul is one of 513 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: the Gosh, you can just see the eliteness on his face. 514 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: He wears a tuxedo to work every day. Oh it 515 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,240 Speaker 1: does look nice though, And I have to say, Paul, 516 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 1: I respect you because I notice it's always a different tuxedo. 517 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:51,280 Speaker 1: You're not phoning it in. So away from tuxedos and 518 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: and back to the elite. Lippman is essentially arguing that 519 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: the informed public does not exist, that the public is, 520 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: despite what is on paper about democracy, inherently incapable of 521 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 1: doing what is right, doing what is smart, doing what 522 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: is good for lack of a better word, So instead 523 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:20,839 Speaker 1: he pictures this sort of technocracy, this uh, this leadership 524 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: of scientists and longtime politicos who will be able to 525 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: make the decisions on behalf of all the other people 526 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: in a country. And this this means that not only 527 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 1: would you as a voter not have a say in 528 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 1: something like a it is something like a law about 529 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 1: pollution or a law about regulation and deregulation, which you 530 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 1: also wouldn't have knowledge of what was going on. So 531 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: that's as idea that the control of information, both gathering 532 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: it and distributing it, would be in the hands of 533 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 1: this technocracy that would be trusted to use scientific methods 534 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 1: to figure out what was really going on and make 535 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,319 Speaker 1: good decisions not just about what's happening, but about who 536 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: should receive specific messages. He wanted to establish a semi 537 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: governmental or quasi governmental intelligence bureau that would evaluate information, 538 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,879 Speaker 1: supply it to other elites to make decisions. And this 539 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 1: bureau could also determine which pieces of information should be 540 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,879 Speaker 1: transmitted through the mass media to the public and which 541 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 1: pieces of information people were better off not knowing. And 542 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 1: he would have he would have gotten away with it 543 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: if it wasn't for those dastardly kids coming up with 544 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 1: the old Internet thing. Absolutely absolutely, and a Scooby Doo 545 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 1: moment is appropriate here. We should say that Walter Lippman 546 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: later stepped away, retreated from this latest argument to a degree, 547 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 1: but that idea remains massively influential and not too unfamiliar 548 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: historically when we consider the past governments of earlier civilizations. Right, 549 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: there's a king and all the people that the king's 550 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,800 Speaker 1: ancestors slept with, and they're in charge. That's just the 551 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: way it is, especially if they have divinity about them 552 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 1: that God has somehow chosen them. Right, Or there's a chieftain, 553 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: same thing, or there's a you know, there's religious leader, 554 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:43,919 Speaker 1: same thing. Here's where it gets crazy. Not only did 555 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:49,880 Speaker 1: Lippman think that democracy was more or less impossible in 556 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,319 Speaker 1: its current form, but more and more people seem to 557 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: impractice agree with him. Today they do, And this is 558 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: what we've spoken about already on the show. Critics of 559 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: both the theoretical function of the current government and the 560 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 1: practical function of the government seemed to often agree that 561 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: the average voter, you and me and everybody else doesn't 562 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: know much but is instead ruled by emotion and is 563 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: prone to impulsive irrational decisions. Now are irrational here would 564 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:22,360 Speaker 1: mean voter decisions um are actually working against the voters 565 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,319 Speaker 1: self interest. What you would you should be voting for, 566 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: you can There are a lot of examples with that, 567 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 1: especially when you talk about tax reform, and then you know, 568 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: the majority of the voters, especially in the lower to 569 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: the middle class, you know, not seeing the benefits that 570 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: may perhaps people in the upper classes would see. Um, 571 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:43,879 Speaker 1: and you have more voters in that lower class, but 572 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 1: you're still going to get a popular consent a lot 573 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,240 Speaker 1: of times, right of course. And this is not something 574 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,840 Speaker 1: that is in any way exclusive to a political party, 575 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 1: no a genre of a political party, or an issue 576 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,359 Speaker 1: or an issue. Yeah, this is a This is a 577 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:07,960 Speaker 1: tendency that Lipman sees and that the current people in 578 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 1: charge whatever that time is and whatever, uh really, whatever 579 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 1: post Lippman ideology you wanna you wanna grasp at, this 580 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 1: is typically what people in power will believe, and we 581 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: can see this in action. There's an interesting tendency here 582 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:28,840 Speaker 1: because later critics such as William F. Buckley on the 583 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,920 Speaker 1: on the right side of American politics were Noam Chomsky 584 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,680 Speaker 1: on the left side, both saw a special interest as 585 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: the ultimate decision makers in too many political discussions. Of course, uh, 586 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: these these two fellows, these two guys would not agree 587 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,160 Speaker 1: with each other, and I'm sure they would disagree on 588 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: exactly which organizations they considered tyrannical special interest groups. But 589 00:41:53,719 --> 00:42:00,720 Speaker 1: the point remains. In Chomsky's arguments, in particular, the media 590 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:05,319 Speaker 1: is seen as acting as a street enforcer for what 591 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,360 Speaker 1: he sees as special interests. This inextricably entwined system of 592 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 1: government officials, heads of businesses, large corporations, these powers behind 593 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 1: the throne too often are seeing as the real voters. 594 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 1: And that's unfortunately a common thread that you will here 595 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:34,120 Speaker 1: discussed more and more in recent years. These critics would 596 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,800 Speaker 1: argue these special interest whatever they may be in special 597 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,759 Speaker 1: interest itself is sort of an umbrella term, sort of 598 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 1: a thought uh thought, terminating cliche, right, special interest it's 599 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,720 Speaker 1: a bit of a boogeyman. But these are the forces 600 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 1: pushing the public in one direction or another, framing issues 601 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 1: in a way that benefits their own internal aims, regardless 602 00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: of their effect on the common good. For the majority 603 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:02,040 Speaker 1: of U. S citizens, if their common aime aligns with 604 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 1: the common good, then great, fine, bully for us, Go team, 605 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,600 Speaker 1: We've vultron together. We've done our Captain Planet thing. This 606 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:13,000 Speaker 1: law made the world a better place. But the problem 607 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,719 Speaker 1: is that even if it acts against the public interests, 608 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,440 Speaker 1: then okay, great for us, go team, We've vultron together, 609 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: and profits are going to rise. Jeezs. Optimists once imagined 610 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 1: that the age of information was going to be one 611 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 1: of unending elucidation, a world in which every single person 612 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,319 Speaker 1: had equal access to knowledge and equal ability to act 613 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,720 Speaker 1: on that knowledge in a smart way toward a common good. 614 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:46,160 Speaker 1: But you can ask people from the entire gamut of 615 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 1: fields social scientists, statisticians, political pundits. They are often now 616 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,640 Speaker 1: convinced this is not the case. Yeah, right now we're 617 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 1: in the sea change, some kind of paradigm shift in 618 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 1: the world of news cover. You've got broadcast in print 619 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,279 Speaker 1: falling behind as online news sources begin their rise or 620 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 1: continue to rise um including the news aggregators like the 621 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 1: reddits of the world. Social media platforms are on the rise, 622 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:17,399 Speaker 1: where people are getting most of their information, even news information, 623 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 1: from these sources. The the increasing likelihood of the so 624 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,200 Speaker 1: called search bubble, where you get stuck in and inside 625 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,600 Speaker 1: this world of news and algorithms that just reinforce the 626 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,080 Speaker 1: views that you've already shared or liked or you know, 627 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,920 Speaker 1: submitted as your preferences. And the emphasis then is not 628 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:41,080 Speaker 1: on critical thought but rather on the enjoyment of it all, right, 629 00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 1: Like the goal is not to inform you so much 630 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: as it is to continue your time on the device, 631 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:53,840 Speaker 1: on the platform, right, just stay here longer. It's mentally 632 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 1: or psychologically, it's similar to some of the tricks casinos use. 633 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:02,359 Speaker 1: It's it's very very similar to that, so that this 634 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,799 Speaker 1: idea is dangerous. And there's there's another point like that 635 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,360 Speaker 1: ad here on on the concept of whether or not 636 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,919 Speaker 1: democracy is impossible. And it's something that you and I, Matt, 637 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:18,440 Speaker 1: have talked about at length before. I think we mentioned 638 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,560 Speaker 1: on air, but we talked about off air often off air. 639 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 1: Often it's the concept of Dunbar's number. The gist is 640 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,600 Speaker 1: that human brains seem to be hardwired to accept only 641 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,759 Speaker 1: a certain number of other human beings around about a 642 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:39,600 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty as other humans. The rest the other 643 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,360 Speaker 1: billions of people in the world are either functions or 644 00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:49,360 Speaker 1: grouped into broad categories. You don't know a Canadian person. 645 00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: That's not what your one fifty we guess what everyone 646 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,560 Speaker 1: who lives there is just one of the Canadians to you, 647 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,880 Speaker 1: maybe divided by what you see as their gender or 648 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:02,279 Speaker 1: what you see as their job. Right. The problems here 649 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:06,040 Speaker 1: are readily apparent. If you are a propagandist like Lippman 650 00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:10,400 Speaker 1: or Bernese or so many other people working today, you 651 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,759 Speaker 1: only have to convince the victim of your propaganda to 652 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,719 Speaker 1: stop thinking of some people as individuals, make them think 653 00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 1: of people as categories. Convince them that whatever decision you'd 654 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,000 Speaker 1: like them to make, whatever protests you'd like them to attend, 655 00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,960 Speaker 1: whatever vote you want them to cast, or whatever products 656 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,759 Speaker 1: you want them to boycott, just convince them it's in 657 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,320 Speaker 1: the best interest not of the world, not of the country, 658 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,960 Speaker 1: but of the one hundred and fifty people that they 659 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,200 Speaker 1: think of as real people. So the game is is 660 00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,840 Speaker 1: a little bit smaller and not as difficult as it 661 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 1: might appear. And for the leader of a country or 662 00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,719 Speaker 1: you know, some political arm uh. This shows us that 663 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,400 Speaker 1: after a certain population size, it becomes very difficult for 664 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: any individual to function as a genuine representative of the 665 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,680 Speaker 1: people they leed. Because if the Unbar's number turns out 666 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,000 Speaker 1: to be true, and there should be more research on it, 667 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:08,360 Speaker 1: but if Dunbar's number holds holds up, then these leaders 668 00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:15,759 Speaker 1: are incapable of recognizing their constituents as human beings. Yikes. 669 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,719 Speaker 1: And just to that end, if we want to analyze 670 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:24,120 Speaker 1: perhaps what what Walter Littman's Dunbar number would be if 671 00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,280 Speaker 1: we're sticking with one fifty uh. He was a member 672 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,480 Speaker 1: of this place called the Metropolitan Club of the City 673 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:34,160 Speaker 1: of Washington. There are Metropolitan Clubs in several other places, 674 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,800 Speaker 1: but this one is very particular because it is in Washington, 675 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,000 Speaker 1: d C. It's a private social club in close proximity 676 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,440 Speaker 1: to the White House. I'm going to read you a 677 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,719 Speaker 1: quote here from their website. The Metropolitan Club is one 678 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,480 Speaker 1: of Washington's oldest and most valued private institutions since its 679 00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:52,800 Speaker 1: founding in eighteen sixty three at the height of the 680 00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,600 Speaker 1: Civil War, by six Treasury Department officials. It has pursued 681 00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,480 Speaker 1: its primary goal of furthering literary improvement, mutual movement, and 682 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:05,360 Speaker 1: social purposes, whatever that means. Other members of this social 683 00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:09,800 Speaker 1: club included influential journalists, policy makers, and quote nearly every 684 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,839 Speaker 1: US president since Abraham Lincoln. Now, this is the kind 685 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,840 Speaker 1: of place where you pay an exorbitant amount of money 686 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,520 Speaker 1: every year and you get to go there and just 687 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:23,359 Speaker 1: talk with your your people. Who are you know, at 688 00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,319 Speaker 1: your stature, I guess, at your place in life. And 689 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,680 Speaker 1: this is where he would spend a lot of his time. 690 00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,920 Speaker 1: And you can imagine that if these are your one 691 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:37,400 Speaker 1: and fifty people, because there were I think active members 692 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,960 Speaker 1: around the time, twelve members. I mean, you can't go 693 00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,879 Speaker 1: much higher than that. Sure, And then it seems from 694 00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:52,560 Speaker 1: a biographical note there, it seems pretty logical that he 695 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,799 Speaker 1: would say, you know, who should be in charge the 696 00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,120 Speaker 1: people I know, the people from the Metropolitan Club. It's 697 00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,279 Speaker 1: not that different from most human reasoning. Who should be 698 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,400 Speaker 1: in charge of the people that you know and the 699 00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,600 Speaker 1: people that you like that you have experienced firsthand? Right, 700 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:14,239 Speaker 1: So we have to ask ourselves when we feel like 701 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,880 Speaker 1: we are making a decision, especially if we're making a 702 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:23,000 Speaker 1: decision on something that would affect the course of our government, 703 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,799 Speaker 1: the course of our community. Whatever. It doesn't have to 704 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,520 Speaker 1: be I know this has been heavy on the political 705 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,200 Speaker 1: aspects because of Lippman's background, but it doesn't have to 706 00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:37,759 Speaker 1: be that. You have to ask yourself how much if 707 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,719 Speaker 1: your mind and your actions are a car, how much 708 00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,360 Speaker 1: time are you at the wheel? And how much time 709 00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:48,200 Speaker 1: are you writing shotgun? And when you are not driving? 710 00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,920 Speaker 1: Who is? This appears to be the stuff mass media 711 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,240 Speaker 1: doesn't want you to know, at least according to Walter Lippman. 712 00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,160 Speaker 1: And again, he may seem obscure today, but like berness is, 713 00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:05,920 Speaker 1: legacy remains relevant today. And to conclude today's episode, we 714 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:11,080 Speaker 1: have to ask you, where is democracy as a concept going? What? 715 00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:15,880 Speaker 1: What trends do we see? Is the age of spontaneous 716 00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:20,840 Speaker 1: almost endless information helping or hurting what so many people 717 00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:27,880 Speaker 1: have praised and criticized for centuries now? And where is 718 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,720 Speaker 1: the American public going? And specific Yeah, do you think 719 00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:36,560 Speaker 1: we are all distracted and disinterested to the point of 720 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:42,319 Speaker 1: not being able to make decisions informed or otherwise for ourselves? Um, 721 00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:44,600 Speaker 1: just maybe you personally. Do you feel that way? I 722 00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,919 Speaker 1: know sometimes I feel that way depending on the day. 723 00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:50,279 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. You can find us 724 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,319 Speaker 1: on social media where we are conspiracy Stuff and most 725 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,160 Speaker 1: of the places Facebook and Twitter we are conspiracy Stuff, 726 00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,719 Speaker 1: show on Instagram, and if you don't want to do 727 00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:00,880 Speaker 1: any of the social media stuff off, just send us 728 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,120 Speaker 1: a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at how 729 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:13,800 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com, m