WEBVTT - Dahlia Lithwick & Evan Osnos 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.120 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:11.160 today's best minds, and Democrats have voted with the Republicans 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:15.720 to pass a transgender sports fan Good work everyone, We 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.600 have such a great show for you today. And by 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.280 the way, I mean good work, bad work, don't do that. 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:24.840 The New Yorkers Evan os Nos stops by to talk 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:29.080 about where we are an American democracy. Spoiler no, We're good. 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:33.360 And then we'll talk to Slate's Dahlia Lettwick about Pam 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:35.159 Bondi's confirmation hearing. 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:39.519 But first the News, Somali, As you stated at the 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:41.760 top of the show of the News, it's just going 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.559 great today. The confirmation hearings continue. But you know, there 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:49.120 was a moment yesterday after retape with Mark Wayne Mullen 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.479 defending peak takest that I think deserves a little more attention. 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:57.480 Republican Mark Wayne Mullen is from Oklahoma. He is very 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:01.440 much the Marjorie Taylor Green of the Senate, taking any 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:06.200 chance to defend one of Trump's people. He defended hegseeth 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:09.560 against charge of drunkenness and womanizing by suggesting that his 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:13.560 colleagues were equally culpable. How many Senators have shown up 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.559 drunk to vote at night? Have any of you guys 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:19.199 asked them to step down and resign from their job? 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.360 By the way, as someone who's sober since they were nineteen, yes, 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:26.880 let's do it. Let's I'm happy. If you're an active alcoholic, 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:30.600 perhaps you should not be running our government. And don't 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.400 tell me you haven't seen it, because I know you have. 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:36.120 And how many senators you know have gotten a divorce 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:40.240 for cheating on their wives? Again, kick all those people out. 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:43.720 But also, more importantly, the idea, you know, we've gone 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:46.960 down this rabbit hole with Trump where since nothing is 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:50.760 disqualifying for Trump, the thought process with a lot of 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:54.960 these Republicans is nothing is disqualifying for his nominees. Very annoying, 0:01:55.520 --> 0:02:01.240 very crazy, and also I might add just completely and disturbing. 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:05.400 But this is where we are so welcome. That's pretty 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:07.120 much how these hearings are going. 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:11.080 Yeah, speaking of other fun stuff, turns out that doing 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:14.680 bad things in Magaworld gets you much bigger book deals. 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:19.000 This is Christy Noom from the Great State of South Dakota. 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:23.760 She she had to file some financial disclosures because she 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:27.239 is going to be Trump's pick for Homeland Security Secretary. 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:31.280 She has confirmations coming on Friday. In her disclosures, she 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.720 revealed that she made one hundred and thirty nine thousand 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:38.320 dollars advance for her twenty twenty four book. That was 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.040 the book where she talked a lot and in great 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.760 detail about shooting her dog and burying it in the 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:49.480 gravel pick. Again, this continues to be a baffling kind 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:52.120 of play. Why writing about you know, it was America. 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.480 All we like are dogs, right, And I mean that's 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.080 the one thing all Americans can agree on is that 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:02.680 dogs are great. Except South Dakota Governor Christy Nome does 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:04.320 not think that anyway. 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.800 The question really is is are there more secrets buried 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:09.840 in this new book? 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:14.079 Yeah? And our first in the gravel pit. 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.080 Yes. On that note, I'll move to another subject to 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:20.720 save us from our bad jokes. So let's see, we've 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.480 seen merk Garland be quite toothless. We've talked that one 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:26.760 to death. Hopefully we will not think about him much 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:29.799 anymore in the next week. But the SEC is now 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:31.960 going to demonstrate what their teeth look like as they 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:35.560 sue Elon Musk over Twitter related securities violations for his 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:36.840 forty four billion dollars. 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:39.560 Purchase, the purchase of Twitter now called X. What I 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.880 think is interesting about this is we had wondered how 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:45.680 Elan had gotten so maga and why he had gotten 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:51.160 so maga, and this sort of provides a really interesting motivation. Right, 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:54.480 So Elon knew that he was going to get sued 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:58.560 by the securities regulators. He knew that was coming. He 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:00.920 probably has known this for a while. While this is 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.880 going to be the final act of Gary Gensler, who 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:08.320 he has a department chair, who he's been raging about forever, 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:13.600 and he's saying that Mosk violated securities laws by amassing 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.240 a large doc position in the social media company without 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:19.720 filing the proper notification. The complaint said he had waited 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:23.400 eleven days before filing the required disclosures with the sec 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.240 So this is this is really like the kind of 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:28.960 thing that Martha Stewart went to jail over, right. 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:31.080 A lot of people have calling to jail over this. 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:32.719 Yeah, exactly. 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.240 So it's one of those administrations that really like said 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:37.720 detail sewn up properly. 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:44.680 Yeah, that is where we are. It's incredibly unsurprising, perhaps. 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:48.200 But that's where we are, SAMAI. Mister Trump has done 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:52.160 a lot of braggadocious things about getting the war in 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.279 Israel to stop. But it's looking like there may be 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:56.480 a ceasefire, right. 0:04:56.720 --> 0:05:00.440 Yeah, So it looks like there's going to be a 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:04.719 a ceasefire for Israel. I don't know what that looks 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:08.800 like exactly. I don't know. We don't really know a 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.679 lot of the details. This is sort of breaking news, 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:16.479 but it looks like Biden world has negotiated seasfire right 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:21.320 before the presidency ended a little too late for all 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:25.920 of those people in Gaza and also many of the hostages, 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:27.919 but it looks like we have. 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:29.240 Some kind of seasfire. 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.800 Evan Osnos is a writer for The New Yorker and 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:41.280 the author of Wildland, The Making of America's Fury. Welcome 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.359 to Fast Politics, Evan Osnos, thank. 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.840 You very much, Molly jump Past. I'm pleased to be here. 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:49.960 I am so excited to have you because I am 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:55.080 a longtime listener of the New Yorker podcast, which is excellent, 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:55.960 which has you. 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:57.280 Bless you, thank you. 0:05:57.360 --> 0:05:59.839 I'm not even a listener, I'm like a super fan, 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:04.640 and so I do things like write your boss emails 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.760 about my hottest takes about what you guys should be doing, 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:09.160 which I'm sure he loves. 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:12.000 We've gotten some of them. They've been on passed to 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:14.920 use the term in the journalism business. And I don't 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.840 mean to dangle something, but you might have some very 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:21.800 cheap and disposable swag coming your way if this keeps up. 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:24.640 My god, you have never known anyone to be more 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.800 impressed with free stuff than me. And you would think, 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:30.760 as someone who is not you know, has not just 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:33.280 fallen off the turnip truck, that I would be cynical 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.080 about getting free stuff, but in fact, I am just 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.320 so incredibly impressed by it. So send me free. 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:42.120 Step I'm with you. I'm sitting here taping in my 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:46.480 closet wearing swag from an ungodly number of entities. That's 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:49.320 just how I roll. I'm clad in swag. There we 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:50.080 are so. 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:52.279 Just for the very few people who don't read The 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.560 New Yorker but listen to this podcast, Evan is one 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:59.480 of the smartest political writers I think, period paragraph and 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.520 what I love about the podcast you're on, which if 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.560 anyone is looking for another podcast after they've listened to 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.280 me four times a week. It's not you know that 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:12.720 you and Jane Mayer, who is just a wonderful human 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:15.400 being but also just have been doing this and gets 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:19.280 the scoops, and Susan Glasser who really knows her stuff, 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:21.960 and just to hear the three of you talk about stuff, 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:25.480 you know, talk about things that are really important historical 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:28.160 references that nobody else remembers. 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:31.800 Well, I thank you. You know those two are as 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:34.720 we say national treasures, I might be a regional treasure, 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.880 which is a less coveted title, but honestly, it is 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:40.520 a genuine treat to get on there every week. And they, 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.520 the three of us, if you put our meager brains together, 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:47.680 you get some assemblage of memory of politics over the 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:49.640 last generation or so, so that we try to talk 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:50.480 about that a bit too. 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.760 Yeah, very smart stuff. So anyway, here we are in 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:57.920 the middle of the confirmation hearings. I'm just going to 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:01.640 read you the title of a email I got last 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:05.360 night from Politico, which really, you know, I don't read 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:08.360 every email I get when I get all of these emails, 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:11.000 but this one it just I was somewhere and I 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:14.880 just it stabbed me in the heart. The death of 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.520 the Senate confirmation hearing. Yeah, discuss. 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:21.120 Look, I have to say I too have been known 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:24.640 to miss the occasional email newsletter. However, that one did 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:29.120 catch my attention to because I was listening yesterday to 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:33.160 the Hegseth confirmation hearing, because I have a vibrant socialize, 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:37.040 but also because there is something true in that description 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:41.520 that there has always been something theatrical about the confirmation process. 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:44.880 But part of that theater has been at least the 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:49.880 suggestion that the person who's testifying is going to try 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:52.320 to answer the question, is going to try you know, 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:55.640 of course they do the usual evasive historyonics, but that 0:08:55.720 --> 0:09:00.000 there will be some ultimate effort to try to satis 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:04.000 by the public's expectation that information will be asked and answered. 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:06.880 And I think we've just entered this phase now where 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:11.679 it is like a series of parallel, non intersecting performances, 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:14.839 some of which I've found actually quite interesting. I mean 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:19.240 to see Alyssa Slotkin or Tim Kaine, that was good 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:20.959 hearing conduct. That's what you. 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:23.040 Do, Tim, and then Tammy Duckworth. 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:26.040 Tammy Duckworth I've been fascinated by for years. I mean, 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:28.800 I started my career at the Chicago Tribune. So there's 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.319 sort of some Illinois in the blood. And I think 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:34.440 there's a way in which her life, the fact that 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:39.199 she was injured while serving overseas during the American Wars 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:43.200 of the twenty first century, makes her a uniquely powerful 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.080 voice in this moment. So I found that to be 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:48.880 just sort of almost thinking as a playwright or something, 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:53.240 as a novelist, there's something really extraordinary which ultimately drives 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:56.520 home how frustrating it was to see heg Seth really 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.160 not acknowledge the dignity of this process and to just 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:01.200 say now I'm going to just kind of Fox and 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:02.320 Friends my way through it. 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.280 Agreed. I also think like this is a moment where 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:09.280 Democrats need to adapt. I say this as a partisan. 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.480 One of the things I truly hate about this current 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:17.000 reality is that there were people I knew who were like, 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.680 this will be good for business, and I was like, 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:24.439 it will be until there's the business is shut down, right, 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:26.920 And I actually didn't even say that because I said, 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.880 you know, you can't play chicken with things like American democracy. 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:33.600 And what I see as I'm watching this is like 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:38.720 democrats need to adapt to whatever this is they're not 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:40.560 going to necessarily be able. I mean, they have a 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:45.480 math problem, right that Republicans have a hardened maga Senate 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.559 with very few normal senators left. 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:50.760 Yeah, I have to tell you you've hit on one 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:53.360 of the things that I have privately, I don't think 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.080 I've talked about it, but privately been kind of enraged about, 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:59.120 which is that there is a pretty sizable chunk of 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:04.720 the business, the journalism business, that is actually eager for 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.360 the fight to be back, for the Trump years, to 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:11.079 allow the rage to get back into the news, meaning 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:15.400 for readers and viewers and listeners to tune in out 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.400 of sheer contempt. And I find that to be a 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.880 disastrous kind of cynicism. The idea that this is a 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:25.280 good thing for us as an industry or as a 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:29.040 country is a big piece of my fundamental beef with 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.240 political journalism. You know, it's a business I'm in, but 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:34.560 I find that piece of it to be kind of, 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:38.080 in some ways the pure distillation of what it is 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:42.120 that Americans actually really hate about us, and their right 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:45.120 to hate that just because we talk about it as 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:47.880 a game sometimes doesn't mean that it should be. And 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:50.600 I think that people pick up on how distasteful that 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:52.640 is because it has real impact in their lives. So 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:54.640 I'm with you on this one. I find that to 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:55.520 be a real problem. 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.520 Yeah, I think it's really disgusting, and I also think 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:02.400 it's really how wet here Like Elon Musk has a 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.440 tweet that he loves I have not been subject to 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.079 it yet, but it's coming where he says, you do 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:12.400 not hate the mainstream media enough, right, Like, this is 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:14.400 the fever dream of all of Silicon Valley is to 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.000 get the people against the media because we are the 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:20.400 you know, by reporting on the corruption, we are the corruption. 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:26.360 But the larger question is the gamification of what is 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.400 happening to our federal government is real. 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.400 Yeah, you know, it's interesting I've been recently. I was 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.400 going back and looking at a piece that I wrote 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:38.400 some years ago about Mark Zuckerberg. I did a profile 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:42.600 of him back in like twenty nineteen, and what's amazing 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.920 to see now in contrast to where he is is 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:50.080 At the time, he was still engaged in a pantomime 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:52.920 of respect for the press that he was for one thing. 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:57.800 After much haranguing and harassment and stalking, he'd eventually agreed 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:01.359 to this sit down to some interview and then ultimately 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:03.319 but it was clear that he was sort of doing 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.920 it through grated teeth. And now we're in an era 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:10.280 where he and his cohort Elon Musk to some degree 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.920 some of the others, that they just refuse to acknowledge 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:16.680 that the press is a meaningful part of power and 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.679 of conversation. What they do acknowledge of it is that 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.840 they have contempt for it. I remember actually a billionaire 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:24.959 in Silicon Valley who said to me a couple of 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.720 years ago, he said, do you think that anybody out 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.040 here is ever going to agree to a New York 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.680 or profile again? And I thought that was such an 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:36.560 interesting tell, because they were beginning to back out of 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:41.120 the existing call it, the existing apparatus of accountability, and 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:43.280 the press is a part of that. And we now 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:45.240 are living in the world in which they don't want 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:47.840 any part of that. And so they're actively as you 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.320 described with Musk's tweet, you know, as he says, we 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:52.600 are the media now. I mean that is their moment 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:57.079 of feeling free, feeling that they've thrown off the yoke 0:13:57.120 --> 0:13:59.680 of that kind of visibility and scrutiny. I will say 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.280 one thing, though, which is, you know, this is laying, 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:04.920 but true history is long, and these periods don't tend 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.520 to endure for very long. That they may find themselves 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:09.560 under a new kind of scrutiny and they may not 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:10.280 like that much. 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.600 Yeah, I mean, by the way we are the media now, 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:16.240 it's like, you really want to be us because you 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:19.040 don't want to be as you know, the billionaire on 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.400 his jet, who's who is the richest man in the world, 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.040 is like, I'm going to take down. It's like stepping 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:26.280 on an ant. 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.520 Well, which is a fascinating kind of asymmetry of power. 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.680 I mean, that's one of the things that drives them crazy, 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:36.200 is this idea that somebody who makes in a lifetime 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:40.680 what they'll make in a day now is able to 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.640 be sort of nettlesome in the way that a kind 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:45.720 of a gnat flies in the face. But I think 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:47.680 it's a reality, and that's one of the things that 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.120 they've gone after now in a profound way. And I'm 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:54.040 not quite sure where that leads. I mean, I really don't. 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:58.160 I do think we're at a real moment of collision though, 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.760 between what Politico discription today is the billionaire boys Club, 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.720 the guys who are going to be attending the inauguration 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.040 as part of the pro Trump team, and then and 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.000 the press. So that is one of the things I'm 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.240 most conscious of over the next couple of months and 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:17.200 then going into this administration is is how much does 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:21.440 a musk or somebody like him, actually how much is 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.760 he able to accommodate himself to the realities of politics, 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.160 of the press, of things like that, or does he 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.120 just end up getting self ejected and does he just 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:31.800 go back and say the hell with this, I'm going 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:33.280 back to my cars and my rockets. 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.280 I mean, that is I think the big question. And 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:41.400 we see him sort of cycling through different countries, right 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:46.359 like I thought, well, he's really invested now in Doge 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:53.600 and then it's like and also German elections, and yeah, 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:57.560 it's like and I sleep at night, so I don't know. 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:01.600 But none of these men sleep at all. Trump doesn't sleep, 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.480 Elon doesn't sleep. None of these people sleep. If I 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.480 get less than six and a half hours, I'm like 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:08.280 a zombie. 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.600 But can I give you a data point on this? 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:14.360 A fascinating one from my you know, as you I 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:16.920 spend part of my life thinking about China. And writing 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.720 about China and so on. And there's a fabulous little 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:24.720 detail from Chinese history that at this absolutely crucial moment 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:30.320 in Chinese history when Mao Zedong undertook this massive purge 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:34.720 that ended up being a signpost to catastrophe. Later followed 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.480 all kinds of purges and led to the Culture Revolution 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.200 and so on. But when you later went back and 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.960 looked at the transcript of what he said about his decisions, 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.120 he said, I was tossing and turning all night. I 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:48.680 couldn't decide what to do about this, and so I 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.440 took a pill. And then I still couldn't sleep. So 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.520 I took another pill, and I still couldn't sleep, So 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:55.920 I took yet another pill. And what we discover is 0:16:55.960 --> 0:17:00.479 that like actually a fair piece of China's most terrible dialogebollical, 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.480 kind of darkest moments of authoritarian madness, we're really the 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:08.400 product of pharmaceutical experimentation. Part of it insomniac. 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:12.000 I shouldn't laugh, Well, it. 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:13.800 Doesn't bode well for us. No, it's a I mean, 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:15.439 you have to laugh in a dark way. That The 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:18.320 reason I think that's interesting is that the interplay between 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:23.720 the private idiosyncrasies or frailties or madnesses of these men 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.920 at the top. They are men of our system. Will matter, 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.240 they will shape the course. You know, human history is 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:32.480 shaped partly by events and partly by human nature, something 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:34.720 my dad often says, and I think he's right about that. 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.200 Yeah. I mean it's funny because sleep is such a 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:40.080 trope in my life. Anyway. The point is, I'm about 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:44.120 to like launch into stories for my memoir, which isn't 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:47.159 out till June. So and the kennel does not like it. 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:52.119 So well, I'm excited for that, by the way, And 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:55.440 I do think as an as a fellow insomniac, that's 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:57.240 like hot content. I'm excited. 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:01.480 It's very short, you tell it's very Somebody said it's 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.439 very quick read, but it has very dark topics like 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:08.960 death and mostly deaths and people getting cancer, et cetera. 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:11.840 And so they were saying it's like a Jewish beach read. 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:14.560 Well, I'm a fan of that type, and I will 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:17.280 see that is I do think people want short right now, 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.280 and along the lines of great short Jewish beach reads 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:25.160 about death. Can I recommend Calvin Trillin's amazing book about Alice, 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.440 which was about his beloved in ly wife. You know, 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:30.159 it is one of the all time greats. 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:35.760 Calvin he was known bud right was exactly Yeah. Yeah, 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:40.160 so but anyway, just back to the death of American democracy. Sure, 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.400 so my theory of the case is that we need 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:49.880 to see democrats adapt to this new trumpefied world. And 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:53.600 so I think what should happen is And I was 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:57.400 looking at the Tammy Duckworth conversation today because I thought 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.480 it was well done, but there was an oppert tunity 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:03.800 that she missed. So she asked him right here, she 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:08.640 is blackhawk helicopter pilot lost her legs, she says to him, 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.560 and really knows. So shit says, can you name this 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:17.400 is these Asian this association of Southern Asion. Yeah, and 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:20.880 he says, I know, we have allies in South Korea 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:21.960 and Japan. 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:26.800 Right, and Australia he named Australia. Also not a member of. 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:29.880 Australia the United Kingdom in the US. Okay, So none 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:30.360 of that is. 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:32.280 Right, right, correct, You're right? 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:34.480 And more importantly, because I just looked this up, it's 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:38.600 not even close, right, the countries in it are. I'm 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:40.359 sure you know this. This is different between the New 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:45.400 York But they are you know, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos. 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.080 Yeah, it's Southeast Asia essentially. 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:51.760 Right, it's the Philipines, function, Yeah, Vietnam, Thailand. So she 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.240 says to him, none of those three countries are in it. 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.480 And then she says, I suggest you do a little homework. Now, 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:02.520 here's my question for you. In a previous world, you 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:05.040 could have said that and it would have been like zing. 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:09.119 But my question now is should she have just kept 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:12.200 pushing and trying to get him, trying to show how 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:16.160 little he knew in order to sort of enter into 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:17.960 the public record that he didn't really know what he 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:18.679 was talking about. 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:22.080 It's true, I happen to say I loved that approach. 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:23.680 It's what what I thought of as the sort of 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:27.120 Katie Kirk Sarah Palin approach where you know, you got 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:29.959 to hear Pete Hegsas say, I love all the all 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:32.440 the all the aussion countries. You have any specific ways 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:32.920 all of them? 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:33.240 I read? 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:36.400 You know. So in a way, that was she did 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:39.880 real work on behalf of the American public there by 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:42.840 exposing what he doesn't know. And you know, because he'll 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:47.200 make reference to these aussion alliances or these these agreements 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:49.560 without having the foggiest notion of the time. So I 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.560 do think you're right it would have been productive to 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:57.040 continue down this kind of essentially remedial education component of 0:20:57.080 --> 0:20:59.920 the hearing and to demonstrate what he how much has 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:03.920 slipped through his tender grasp. But I thought that was 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:07.560 very smart, That was effective, and it'll reverberate in Asia. 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:10.680 That will work. You know, that's going to play on 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:14.240 all kinds of Asian programming for a while, particularly when 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.680 he gets on a plane and flies over there. He's 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:20.160 going to have to suit of practically really bone up, 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:24.119 like Encyclopedia Brown on ossion time comes. 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:28.240 Clearly a lot of Democrats were mad about him saying 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:30.840 that women can't serve as the daughter of a second 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:34.040 wave feminist. I get their irritation. I mean, it's a 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:37.320 very fucked up thing to say, But my question is 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:41.840 more like, is yelling at him about that going to 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:44.480 move the needle. I almost wonder if you had pushed 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:47.600