1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 4 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,159 Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 5 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: I think it's a word purpose driven platform, like we're 6 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you 7 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It 8 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: really is? What's up? I'm Laura Currnty and I'm Alexa Kristen. 9 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Atlantia. Coming to you from spring break 10 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 1: and sunny Arizona. Hi, Laura, Hi, I miss you know 11 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: we should be down here. We thought we would use 12 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: this week to bring in one of our friends from Adwik, 13 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: Josh Dernberg, who is the tech editor of that trade publication, 14 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: coming and talk to us about some of the things 15 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: um that he's seeing from his vantage point, not just 16 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: from a signal in the noise trend perspective, but also 17 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: ways in which we think that we can bring the 18 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: industry tighter together to actually move it forward. Yeah. I 19 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: think that the conversation really is more about what can 20 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: we do to kind of change the PR marketing advertising 21 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: agency relationship. And I think that a lot of people 22 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: have been saying what he's saying. He's very clear, and 23 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: I like his currently dystopian. He likes to say he's 24 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: a pragmatist and a realist, but I think it's a 25 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 1: somewhat like dystopian kind of perspective of where we are 26 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: today in this relationship between the press and and the 27 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,839 Speaker 1: agency side and the client side. I think that there's 28 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: a lot to be said in terms of the trades 29 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: and I and I'm hoping we talked to him about this, 30 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: that there's a lot to be said about getting into 31 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: where the trades are going and the trade publications role 32 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: in actually driving change in the industry versus just maybe 33 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: reporting on it. So I'm excited to talk to Josh. 34 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: We're going to bring him in the studio and we'll 35 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: be back with him right after this. Yeah, we're back 36 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: in the studio with Josh Sternberg, the tech editor of 37 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: ad Week. Welcome to the show, Josh, Welcome does the show, Josh, 38 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: thank you for having me so, Mr Josh Sternberg. Similar 39 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: to our friends or Fisher, you've been on kind of 40 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: both sides of the world. Um, tell us about where 41 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: you came from, what You've done both on the paid 42 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: sign Brandon Content and now over ad week. What are 43 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: you doing? Yeah? So I'm here because I'm a failed musician. 44 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: I didn't know this about yeah, aren't we all? Yeah? 45 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: I um. I was in a rock jazz improv band 46 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: for a long time, and clearly there's not a market 47 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 1: for that. So I went to graduate school and really 48 00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: enjoyed academia. So I became a professor for a few years. 49 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: Then I met a girl, wound up in New York 50 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: where it was not economically viable for me to cross 51 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: two rivers back into New Jersey to continue teaching. So 52 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: I need to find a job, and I landed in 53 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: PR and it was fine. I got a good understanding 54 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: of how companies and brands communicate, but at the same 55 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: time I still enjoyed writing. Wound up at digit A, 56 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: writing covering media and the ongoing transition that publishers face, 57 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: moving from a legacy print analog world to a fun 58 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: digital world. How many years ago is that now? So 59 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: that was about That was six years ago, two thousands twelve, 60 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: and it was a digit A for about two and 61 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: a half years. I got a call from the chief 62 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: revenue officer at the Washington Post who called me up 63 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: and said, hey, we're doing this brand studio thing. You've 64 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: been covering it, you know, the playbook of what people 65 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: are doing. Seemed to have a good head on your shoulders. 66 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: What do you What do you say? So I said sure, 67 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: um did that for about a year and a half 68 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: or so. Then NBC News came calling. And while I'm 69 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: doing the same thing at NBC News and got laid 70 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: off in March of this is on the digital side 71 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: doing Brandon content. Uh yeah, yeah. When I got laid off, 72 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: I was thinking, well, I really don't want to go 73 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: back into the business side, all the glitz and glamor 74 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: of it all. I really missed reporting. I missed being 75 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: in a news room, I missed the intellectual curiosity of reporters. 76 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: And I ended up at that week. So I've been 77 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: here now for about four months and it's phenomenal. So 78 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: you've been covering a lot of what's on everybody's mind 79 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: right now, the Facebook, Google, do appoly and for many 80 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: of our listeners who obviously are in the industry, this 81 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: has become mainstream news as opposed to just industry news. 82 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: Can you give us some background on the state of 83 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 1: what's going on with Facebook and Google. So I think 84 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: the one of the interesting things about all of this 85 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:13,119 Speaker 1: is that this is not something that happened overnight, and 86 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: it's not something that is necessarily company lead users, advertisers, marketers. 87 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: We allowed this to happen by continuing to use these 88 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: products and these websites without really paying attention. Um. You know, 89 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: when you talk about the doopoly, it's more on the 90 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: ad revenue side, right where five or eighty six cents 91 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: of every digital dollar goes to one of those two companies, 92 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 1: you know, And we're going to start to see Amazon 93 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: take a little piece here and there. On the odd side, 94 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: the Internet is for all times of purposes for a 95 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: lot of people, Google and Facebook, so that attention, those 96 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: eyeballs are there. So, you know, I'll throw that back 97 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: to you guys. Is you know, media and marketing folks, 98 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: when you see a plan and you're looking for scale 99 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: and reach, what are you looking for? It's it's a 100 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: good question, and I think we think about things very 101 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 1: strategically in terms of what is the big idea, how 102 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: do we come across and drive impact and attention in 103 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: the market. When you hear it some statistic and don't 104 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: quote me on this, but it's something over fift of 105 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: impressions are viewed by bots not loading on a page. UM. 106 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: That's concerning, and that's not something that's new. Those are 107 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: not new facts, UM. And I think we very early 108 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: decided some of the work that we've done, and certainly 109 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 1: work that I've done with other clients, that we put 110 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: content in an environment where it wasn't skippable, where it 111 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: was integrated within other content that was editorially driven. And 112 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: I think that's something that we we tend to forget 113 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: about that that doesn't happen by pressing a button and 114 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: running through a programmatic buy Right. That's many nights of 115 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: having drinks and dinners with the sales rep. And that's 116 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,359 Speaker 1: many nights of that sales rep trying to figure out 117 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: how am I going to get this account to do 118 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: these things? And there's often that a disconnect because most 119 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: people are not Most buyers are not like you. We 120 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: have a box to check, we have a spreadsheet to 121 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: fill out, and let's just keep the ball moving forward. UM. 122 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: And the sales rep they're looking at they've got a 123 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: quarily number to hit, they're looking at what's in front 124 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: of their face. But that sales rep who's trying to 125 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: do something big, trying to do something creative, will often 126 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: have to walk back those ideas either a because no 127 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: one's buying, be because they have a hard time articulating 128 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: what that thing could be. And then when it does 129 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: get sold, the execution is really bad because no one 130 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: actually thought it through. And I'm sure that pisses you 131 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: guys off on that certainly, And I think that's a 132 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: large part of what's wrong, you know, and why many 133 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: years ago we walked away from the RFP process and 134 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: we want the value. There was no value right, There 135 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: was no value in it anymore because at the end 136 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: of the day one, we weren't looking for off the 137 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: shelf kind of stuff. Um. We also, and this is 138 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: something that I talked to other client side folks about 139 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: all the time, like, you should know what the Washington 140 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: Post is really good at, and you should know what 141 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: their road map is, and you should know how you 142 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: know what the New York Times is really good at 143 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 1: and what's the differentiator And you start going to those 144 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: people specifically because you have an idea, not the other 145 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: way around. Can I tell you the story, tell us 146 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: the story. But I want to ask you a question 147 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: before we get too far away from it. What is 148 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: the trade media's role in changing this conversation? So there 149 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: are a couple of ways of looking at this. Trade 150 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: journalism works well when you are able to explain something 151 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: to practitioners who are doing this every day that might 152 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: have their clients on. So if I am writing about 153 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: how a particular company is doing something, so you know, 154 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: let's say the Washington Post, how the Washington Post is 155 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: operating their programmatic strategy, it's a process story. It's here's 156 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: how this one company is doing this one thing, and 157 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: here how you reader can take away knowledge of what 158 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: this company is doing and how you might be able 159 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: to use those practices in your day to day job. Um, 160 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: there's another side of trade journalism that can shine a 161 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: light on some of the shady stuff that happens in 162 00:09:54,160 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 1: the industry that we talk about in different settings. We 163 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: go out for drinks, you guys tell me stuff that 164 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: you wouldn't tell me when I'm calling to talk about 165 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: a story. It's in a way, no, no, it's not 166 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: not you specifically. Let's yes, you guys. You guys do 167 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: not give me any dirt ever. But you know, going 168 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: going out to drinks with sources, going out to coffee 169 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: or launch and just talking with people, you can find 170 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: stories of companies doing bad things, people doing bad things, 171 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: and then you report and you shine a light to 172 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: hopefully show others, hey, don't do this, this is dumb. Uh. 173 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: There is a growing trend not just within trade journalism um, 174 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: but within the tangentials of trade journalisms. So it doesn't 175 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: quite seep into the mainstream, but it does get into 176 00:10:54,080 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: publications that cover media or advertising on the side um 177 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: where they look for the salacious and for the dirt 178 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 1: for the sake of salaciousness and dirt. So can we 179 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: park that part there? Because I want to come back 180 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: to the center. One of the main reasons we created 181 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: at Landia was how do we shape the conversation, poke 182 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: holes and ask questions about legacy models, the traditional way 183 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 1: of doing things when in fact technology and the consumer 184 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: have moved tenfold away from the way this this industry 185 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: acts and behaves and and goes to market. So when 186 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: I got to add week, part of my pitch for 187 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,959 Speaker 1: them to hire me was that I wanted to build 188 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: a desk that looks at basically how every single decision 189 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,079 Speaker 1: that the media landscape has made over the last twenty 190 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: years has been wrong, and it has created problem, which 191 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,679 Speaker 1: has created more problems, which has created more problems. And 192 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: that we are at a point with technology becoming better, 193 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: becoming stronger, becoming faster, where through the lens of trade 194 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: journalism as educator, as explicator, that we can help brands, publishers, agencies, platforms, 195 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: even ad tech vendors make better decisions. So that way, 196 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: when we figure out how to make VR headsets not 197 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: look as silly as they look and make a use 198 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: case for people to actually put them on, we're not 199 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:38,719 Speaker 1: getting served display ads or pop ups or banner ads, right, um, 200 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: And I think to your point, the way that we 201 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: can do that is to write stories and cover the 202 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: industry with that perspective of look, here's what doesn't make sense, 203 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: here's what makes sense, Here's what's working for this company 204 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: and why, and what can you take out of it 205 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: that you might be able to help with your job. 206 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: So Alex and I have talked to, obviously Sara Fisher 207 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: who's a reporter, and Sarah made a really good UM 208 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: point at the end of the episode talking about how 209 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 1: the relationship between the industry and the trade press can 210 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: afford to get tighter in the sense of shaping those 211 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 1: narratives and helping journalists who might not have been practitioners. 212 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 1: You and Sarah were both in interesting situations and that 213 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: you were a practitioner at one point. How can the 214 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: industry help Josh Sternberg, How can the industry help Sarah 215 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: fisher Um and others like you or those that have 216 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: no background in our in what we do, tell those 217 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: stories or explain them in a way that's going to 218 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: actually create change versus swirl. Yeah, the thing that comes 219 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: to mind immediately is don't lie, don't bullshit, don't obfu, skate, 220 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: Just tell us it's okay that you don't know something. 221 00:13:55,520 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: It's okay that you tried something and it failed. Not 222 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: everything is going to be successful. Not everything. Actually, pretty 223 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: much nothing that you do is going to be revolutionary 224 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: or game changing or whatever buzzword. Getting every single press 225 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: release or pitch be honest. And I think that's where 226 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: trade journalism can excel is if we focus on the honesty. 227 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: The trick to that, though, is that a lot of 228 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: people within the industry, especially on the business side, it's 229 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: not in their best perspective to be honest. I mean 230 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: it's so funny because like I would never say, like 231 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: I actually wouldn't think about honesty is the first thing 232 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: but or the most important thing, because to me, that's 233 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: like table stakes. Right. Um, what I think you're saying 234 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: that is making me want a different model is like 235 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: how do we start incentivizing a different relationship? Like how 236 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: do you incent a different model here? It's interesting, Like 237 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking over the work that we've done together, 238 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: and I could see your point in terms of the 239 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: business side coming to you when it's a best in 240 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: class case study that they want to promote. But how 241 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: many pitches have you sent maybe you're your peers have 242 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: sent out to a publisher saying we want something that's 243 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: never been done before. Of course, right, it's like, but 244 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: don't do that, because if you're setting that bar, there's 245 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: nothing that hasn't never been done before. To use multiple negatives. 246 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: So we had the privilege of having you at our 247 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: first I R Element at Landy a live sound served 248 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: over sound and Um, you and I talked that night. 249 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: One of the things you said to me that resonated 250 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: so much. I think you said, there's like basically a 251 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: malaise in the industry that just creates mediocrity. That's my 252 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: version of what you said. You said in a much 253 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: better headline. I just said, you know, the industries mediocrity 254 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: by necessity, where the output of what we do is 255 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: based off of not trying to do the best. But 256 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: it's too again to your point that that laziness, that 257 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: malaise of all right, I gotta check that box. I 258 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: got to make sure that all the way up and 259 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: down the chain that my ass is covered. It's cover 260 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: your ass syndrome, right, and media on the business side 261 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: is really good at that. Yeah. I think what's really 262 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: interesting here, though, is that, like you're talking about getting 263 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: briefs that basically say, do something that's never been done before. 264 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: Innovate is not a checkbox? Is that a check box? 265 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: And it's phenomenal that those are the things that you 266 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: that you guys on the on the editorial side see. 267 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: But it's it's it's innovate with a pedestrian eye. When 268 00:16:54,960 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: someone asks me what is the best piece of answered content, 269 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: I've seen brand branded content, native advertising content. So that's 270 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: also part of the problem, right, what is this thing? Right? 271 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: But anyway, you know, I always think to the g 272 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: E Capital Bus road show that was done with Slate 273 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: for Growth. Yeah, bringing that was Laura, That was LA 274 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: because that was that was it was interesting, right, It 275 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: was taking the idea of you know what, we've got 276 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: this message, and we want to take this message to 277 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: particular people in particular areas, and then we can create 278 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: all of this editorial content as well as sponsored or 279 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: branded or whatever content and do it in a way 280 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: that makes sense for the reader. The biggest problem that 281 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: I have with our industry is we don't take off 282 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: our hat in whatever that hat maybe um you know, 283 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: you might call me cynical, and I don't take off 284 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 1: my reporter's hat. But at the same time, sometimes, you know, 285 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 1: I cannot take off my marketer hat. And on the 286 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: business side, that's all too prevalent where I've been in 287 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: meetings where the sales rep and the agency and the 288 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: brand are thinking in terms of the hat that they're 289 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: wearing and not they're human being hat. And when you 290 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: put on the stress test of if you're a normal 291 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: person and you're waiting in line at any grocery store 292 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 1: and you're skimming through or scrolling through a website, are 293 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: you going to click on that piece of sponsored content? 294 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: What are you going to click on? And we don't 295 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: think about that, or if we do, that doesn't get 296 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: pushed down stream to twenty four year old media buyer 297 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: or the media planner. Um. So, if you can take 298 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 1: off your industry hat and put on your human being hat, 299 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: I think some of these challenges that the industry faces 300 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: will just now actually fade away. I was talking to 301 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: someone last night, UM, and I'm saying, why can't people 302 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 1: see beyond what their business does? It's so fun? And 303 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 1: then what you're saying, I'm taking to like like a 304 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: very just basic level. So people say, I am a 305 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: data company that does X right and I see it 306 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: all the time, and I'm like, no, no, no, no, 307 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: your your capabilities are this, and if you applied it 308 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: over here, which is something you're not even thinking about, 309 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: your company becomes totally different. And I think that so 310 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: going beyond like the industry hat and the junior media buyer, 311 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: I also think that we have like really senior, senior 312 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: level people on the client side who also aren't thinking 313 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: about what they do really really well and putting that 314 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: in places that are just very simply valuable, And that's 315 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 1: what you're saying. Right at the end of the day, 316 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: I think to your point, there are still too many 317 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: UM brand marketers, UM and agency folks who are evaluating 318 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 1: the success of campaigns based on impressions and things that 319 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: do not reflect the engagement, meaningful engagement and qualification of 320 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 1: the audience that they're reaching. Right, what does the consumer 321 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:21,959 Speaker 1: care about? And these briefs that go out, you see them, 322 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 1: they're very one way, very push versus pull in terms 323 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: of here's my brand story and needs to show up 324 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: and needs to target these people. But what happens when 325 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: it gets to those people, it's it's out of their hands, 326 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: right like it, It gets just pushed along. So when 327 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 1: I was on the business side, and I would get 328 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: an RFP, and it would say, we want these three 329 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: concepts to come through in the sponsored content, and I 330 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: and and and my team we put together these what 331 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: I thought were really smart content strategies and content plans 332 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: and distribution mechanisms and all of these levers that we 333 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: can pull to get the content in front of the 334 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: right people. And invariably I get nose from buyers and 335 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: I get nose from brands because I didn't use those 336 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: three specific words in the content. What what words whatever word? Right, 337 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: So I learned that in order to win the account, 338 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 1: all I needed to do was parent back the brief 339 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: in a semi cogent way and then when we would 340 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: win the account, put together content that was mediocre by necessity. 341 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: So so because I think this is a really important 342 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,439 Speaker 1: point as you're talking about that process that you were 343 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: at the time willing to power it back, and I 344 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: know that you're not the only person who does this 345 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 1: to win business because you have a number and hit 346 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: and that's how you're incentivized. On the ad cell side. Well, 347 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: clearly I didn't do that good of a job by design, 348 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: by design um, But can we talk about just going 349 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 1: back to the earlier question, how can we as an industry, 350 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: how can we as agency people and brand marketers work 351 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: better with the Josh Sternberg's and journalists of the industry 352 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: to change this conversation. So I think this is part 353 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 1: of it, right, having these types of conversations on the record, 354 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: where one of the things that I try to do 355 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: is talk to as many people as possible up and 356 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: down the food chain. And I know that if I 357 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: talked to the CEO and the CMO. I'm going to 358 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: get a slightly more refined message than if I talked 359 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: to the VP, then when I talked to the director, 360 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: than when I talked to the manager. So I try 361 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: to talk to everybody so I can kind of get 362 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 1: a better sense of what is real and what is not. 363 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: I look at more in terms of war, maybe because 364 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: I mean it sounds like it's like look like this. 365 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: The CEO is the head of the army, right, and 366 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: the CEO is getting his or her information from his 367 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: or her lieutenants, who's getting their information from the grunts 368 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: on the ground and the sales jups and the agency 369 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 1: reps who are going out for dinner and drinks and 370 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: gene parties and apple picking. Are the ones in the 371 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: trenches who are trying to give the information up to 372 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: their respective generals, and those messages often get conflated, destroyed, 373 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: um misconstrued. Can I can I say something? Of course, 374 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: if if marketing became this is a druma, I'd beat 375 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: a lot. But if marketing became more at the center 376 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: of true business, do you think that there would be 377 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: onions to peel back? Do you think there will be 378 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 1: stories to spin or would you be talking about real 379 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 1: ship that's moving real needles, that's changing real consumer relationships, 380 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 1: that's doing real things. And is that and is that coming? 381 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: I don't know. And this is very naive and very stupid, 382 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: and they understand this, but for me, the the bottom 383 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: line is do you sell ship? Do people buy the 384 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: product or the service that you are advertising and marketing 385 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: and if so, then it's working. Right. Yeah, but I'm 386 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 1: talking about like marketing building products. And this is a 387 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: hard concept. Right when marketing actually starts becoming part of 388 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: creating the products and creating the business versus just going 389 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: out and messaging that business and bringing in sales, it 390 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: will always do that. I mean, I I think of 391 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: jobs and Apple, right, the product was built in conjunction 392 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 1: with jobs, thinking of marketing. Yeah, but he wasn't thinking 393 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: about marketing. He wasn't thinking about marketing. It's thinking about 394 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: a product. And you know what I mean, that's what 395 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: that is what we're talking about, and it's real and 396 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: like Steve Jobs, sorry I'm excited in Arizona. It's only 397 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: seven in the morning. But like Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs 398 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: wasn't like I'm going to go and think about marketing. 399 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: He knew that that was his strong suit. He knew 400 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 1: he was a seller, but he wasn't just selling. But 401 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 1: he also, if I may designed with the consumer in mind, 402 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: he built for the consumer, which is if you look 403 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: as competition, nobody there is. They're thinking about the utility, 404 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: but not necessarily the end consumer. They had their tech 405 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: teams building ship and then they didn't have the right 406 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: marketers on top of it. And so one of the 407 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: biggest problems is they like, look at Yahoo tech teams 408 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: and then separated marketers. Look at Microsoft and Microsoft and 409 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: Sati has done an amazing job with Microsoft, but I'm 410 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: going to tell you, like still tech teams building things 411 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: for consumers. That's why some of their Windows products didn't work. 412 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,719 Speaker 1: It's clear, it's clear, but but I guess that's my 413 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,360 Speaker 1: that's my big sticking point. If we start, if marketers 414 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: stopped just thinking about the cell and Laura and I 415 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: talked about this all the time, and and start thinking 416 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: about the context, right, And what I talk that was 417 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: back to take off your hat. And I think you 418 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 1: guys are in the position to actually change that, right. 419 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: I'm not. Well, actually I would argue that because as 420 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: we're sitting here, you know, in my head brainstorming, and 421 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,479 Speaker 1: and Alexa will probably be able to finish the sentence. 422 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: But I actually see the role. I don't think the 423 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,959 Speaker 1: word journalists in a trade function actually does it justice anymore. 424 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: I actually see you being the conduit or the liaison 425 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 1: between these agencies and these publishers and these brands to 426 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: start connecting dots that they're not seeing because everybody is 427 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: so in the rabbit hole you said, having blinders on 428 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,479 Speaker 1: focused on the thing that they're selling, that they're making, 429 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 1: that they're creating, that they're not leveraging the best practices 430 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: or lessons learned or failures of their peers to learn 431 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: from cree and move forward. I also think they can't 432 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: see the signals, Like when you're drinking your own bathwater, 433 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: and we all do it to a certain extent, you 434 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: cannot see the signals in the noise. And that's what 435 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,719 Speaker 1: we built this platform on. That's what we built this right, 436 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: and that's what I would love to see more folks 437 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: on our side of the table. Use you, Josh Stebergain, 438 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: and I use the word use loosely, but partner with 439 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: you on to start thinking about how we I don't 440 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: want to. And this is a practice I'm going to 441 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: take away from this conversation. I'm no longer going to 442 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: call you and say, hey, I'm doing this insane thing, 443 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: and it's it's not for innovation for innovation sake. There's 444 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: a strategic purpose. But I'm gonna call you and say, hey, 445 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: I'm I'm wondering about this thing. What's going on in 446 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: the marketplace. Is there a conversation we can have with 447 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,199 Speaker 1: somebody else that you're talking to that's exactly right. So 448 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: the stories that I will look at more closely as 449 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 1: a reporter are the stories that someone comes to me 450 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: and it says, I'm not selling a product, I'm not 451 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: selling the new thing. I'm interested in what I'm seeing, 452 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: and I need you as that conduit to go find 453 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: other people that are doing this and we're not. We're 454 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: not doing it. We're not doing it exactly, or am 455 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: I not. One of the things. One of the things, 456 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: if I can to out my own company for a second, 457 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: that I really enjoy about ad Week is over the 458 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 1: last year and a half or two years, the company 459 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: has been shaping itself to service as a place for 460 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: that community. And not to say that there's no skepticism 461 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: or you know, you might call it cynicism or negativity. 462 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: I call it pragmatism and realism. Um. But the idea 463 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: that CEO and CMOS read us to understand what's happening, 464 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: and when they can connect dots and we can help 465 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: connect dots, it makes for better decision making on the 466 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: business side. At least that's the theory. And I'm excited 467 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: over the coming months and years to continue to develop 468 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: this community because I think the idea of agencies and 469 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: brands and publishers talking to each other as opposed to 470 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: pitching each other needs to happen to make better decisions. 471 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: Partnership is happening right now. So it's time killed by 472 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: d I Y. And we know that you have the 473 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: best tweets in the trade pub games. So we're hoping 474 00:29:52,720 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: your answers are just as exciting. Yeah real okay, yeah, 475 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: So Josh, what would you kill in the industry? Oh? God, everything, 476 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: burn it all down? Um. Not a cynic no, no. 477 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: And one of the things that we're working on is 478 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: to be skeptical but not cynical, which is fair. It's 479 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: hard to do that. Um. What would I kill? Um? 480 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: From the reporter perspective. I would kill press releases. There's 481 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: no reason for a press release. I'm never going to 482 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: cover your press release because you're sending it to me 483 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: and you're sending it to five thousand other people. There's 484 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: nothing interesting in a press release. That's why it's a 485 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: press release. What would you buy? What would I buy? 486 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: I would buy the New York Yankees? Would you buy 487 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: them as is? Yeah? I love the Baby Bombers. Yeah. Um. 488 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: What would you do yourself? I'd be a musician. I 489 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: hear like tears, Yeah, I mean that's that's like. I 490 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: am the most comfortable when I'm on stage with the 491 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: guitar slinged around my shoulder. So why don't we figure 492 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: out how we do in Atlantia at week event that 493 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: you can play at done one of my colleagues, Marty Swant, 494 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: he's also a guitar player, and when I was coming 495 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: over to ad Week, we were kind of kicking around 496 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: the idea of starting a band called the c p MS. 497 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: I will see myself out on that one the next 498 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: start over time. Josh, thank you so much for coming. 499 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,719 Speaker 1: Where can people call you to partner with you to 500 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: talk about stories? No phone calls. Do not call me. 501 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: You can email me Josh dot Sternberg at at week 502 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: dot com, or you can follow my brain farts on 503 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: Twitter at at Josh Sternberg. Josh, thank you so much 504 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: for coming to Atlantia. Always a pleasure to hang out 505 00:31:55,120 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: with you. So I think Josh poses some interesting challenges 506 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: to our side of the business, and I think that 507 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: there's ways to really start thinking about UM partnering with 508 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: journalists in a way that doesn't just report out. And 509 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: I think we've got this plea from him on press 510 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: releases and pitch stories, but really thinking about how we 511 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: can change the narrative and work together to learn from 512 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: one another, and that really I think changes the role 513 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: that the trade publications play and trade organizations at large 514 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: in our industry. Wouldn't you say? We agree? And I'm 515 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: like really into this challenge he put out there to 516 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: marketers and agencies and said, Okay, we'll kind of kill 517 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: the idea and reporting on kind of short termism and 518 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: delacious stories if marketers and agencies are willing to come 519 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: and talk more openly about failures and really work with 520 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: us on concepts and ideas versus things and campaigns like 521 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: tactics and nextic you shift, um, and I think that 522 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: every marketer out there should kind of take that challenge 523 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: and gives Josh a call and say here, I'll give 524 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: you something to report on. Let's let's change the industry. Yeah. 525 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: I think it's totally the same way we think about 526 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: urfping versus integrating and and collaborating and so UM. I 527 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: think that those are behavioral shifts that the industry is 528 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: um beginning to engage in. And I think we can 529 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: only go up from here. So with that, big ups 530 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: for our producer, Cameron Drews. Thanks Cam, And we have 531 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 1: a new producer in the house who is joining our 532 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: team another Laura. Welcome to the show, Laura. Um, she's 533 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: smiling from behind the booth. What am I gonna do 534 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: to Laura's such a problem. I don't know. I think 535 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: it's pretty bit badass. Cam. We love you that we're 536 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: adding another woman to the to the team. Yeah, it's 537 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: not you, it's us, Cam, we know. Um. Anyhow, Thank 538 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: you to Andy Bower's, Matt Turk, Jacob Weisberg, all our 539 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 1: friends and family at Panable. We will be back in 540 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 1: two weeks. Enjoy spring break at Landia. Full disclosure. Our 541 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 1: opinions are our own.