WEBVTT - The Word For Man Is Ishi

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin, The Last Archive, A History of Truth.

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<v Speaker 2>When I was a kid, there were a few books

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<v Speaker 2>and movies that we watched all the time because my

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<v Speaker 2>dad taught them every year. He's a professor of business ethics,

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<v Speaker 2>just not the way you'd think. Instead of case studies

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<v Speaker 2>about business, he teaches stories about everything. In our house,

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<v Speaker 2>a story was never just about what she thought it

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<v Speaker 2>was about. It was about something else entirely. For instance,

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<v Speaker 2>if you ask most people to describe the film Blade Runner,

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<v Speaker 2>nine times out of ten they're going to tell you

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<v Speaker 2>it's a movie about Harrison Ford hunting robots. They might

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<v Speaker 2>mention he's struggling with the possibility that he is also

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<v Speaker 2>a robot. But if you ask my dad, he'd say, no,

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<v Speaker 2>what we have here is a film about the unethical

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<v Speaker 2>Tyrrell Corporation, the company that makes the robots. Same goes

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<v Speaker 2>for writing giants, a film some might say is about

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<v Speaker 2>surfing without realizing it's actually about leadership. And don't get

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<v Speaker 2>me started about the Country Bunny and the Little gold Shoes.

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<v Speaker 2>You thought that was a children's book. Oh No. The

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<v Speaker 2>problem with my dad, though, is he's usually right even

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<v Speaker 2>when he sounds totally wrong. This is particularly annoying to

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<v Speaker 2>my mom, but eventually you get used to it. One

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<v Speaker 2>of the big stories in the Dad canon for as

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<v Speaker 2>long as I can remember, is a science fiction story

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<v Speaker 2>called The Ones Who Walk Away from Omlas. It's by

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<v Speaker 2>Ursula k Legwinn, the science fiction writer with.

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<v Speaker 3>A clamor of bills that set the swallows soaring. The

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<v Speaker 3>festival of Summer came to the city Omlas, right towered

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<v Speaker 3>by the sea.

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<v Speaker 2>This story always struck me as a rare one for

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<v Speaker 2>my dad, because it seems pretty straightforward about what you think.

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<v Speaker 2>It's about a utopia.

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<v Speaker 3>How can I tell you about the people of Omolas?

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<v Speaker 3>They were not naive and happy children, though their children

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<v Speaker 3>were in fact happy. But I wish I could describe

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<v Speaker 3>it better. Perhaps it would be best if you imagined

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<v Speaker 3>it as your own fancy bids.

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<v Speaker 2>In the story, Legwen asks you to imagine the best

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<v Speaker 2>place you can this beautiful city by the sea, golden

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<v Speaker 2>in the light on a feast day in summer. Whatever

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<v Speaker 2>sounds best to you. There it is, But of course

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<v Speaker 2>things aren't what they seem.

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<v Speaker 3>Let me describe one more thing in a basement under

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<v Speaker 3>one of the beautiful public buildings of Omlass, or perhaps

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<v Speaker 3>in the cellar of one of its spacious private homes.

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<v Speaker 3>There's a room. It has one locked door and no window.

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<v Speaker 3>A little light seeps in dustily between cracks in the

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<v Speaker 3>board's secondhand from a cobweb window somewhere across the cellar.

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<v Speaker 3>In the room, a child is sitting. It shuts its eyes,

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<v Speaker 3>but it knows the door. Door is locked, and nobody

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<v Speaker 3>will come. The door is always locked, and nobody ever comes,

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<v Speaker 3>except that sometimes the door rattles terribly and opens, and

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<v Speaker 3>a person or several people are there. One of them

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<v Speaker 3>may come in and kick the child to make it

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<v Speaker 3>stand up. The others never come close, but peer in

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<v Speaker 3>at it with frightened, disgusted eyes.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the dark secret of Omilas. The child in

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<v Speaker 2>the basement. All the happiness in Omilas rests on that

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<v Speaker 2>kid's suffering. It's a thought experiment. Would it be worth it?

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<v Speaker 4>They all know.

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<v Speaker 3>It's there, all the people of Omolas, they all know

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<v Speaker 3>that it has to be there. They would like to

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<v Speaker 3>do something for the child. But if it were done

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<v Speaker 3>in that day and hour, all the prosperity and beauty

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<v Speaker 3>and delight of Omilas would wither and be destroyed. Those

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<v Speaker 3>are the terms.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a very famous story taught in classrooms around the

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<v Speaker 2>world half a century after its publication, including my dad's,

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<v Speaker 2>which again was weird to me because, if ever there

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<v Speaker 2>was a story that's just about what you think, it's

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<v Speaker 2>about the ones who walk away from omelas, is it

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<v Speaker 2>now there's a story that's just about ethics right and wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>Your basic meat and potato stuff A pure thought experiment,

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<v Speaker 2>or that's what I thought, until I realized it wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>the thought experiment at all. Welcome to the Last Archive,

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<v Speaker 2>the show about how we know what we know, how

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<v Speaker 2>we used to know things, and why it seems sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>lately like we don't know anything at all anymore. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>Ben Mattapaffrey. This episode is about the story behind that

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<v Speaker 2>thought experiment, and that story starts a little over a

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<v Speaker 2>century ago in a small gold rush town in California.

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<v Speaker 2>On August twenty eighth, nineteen eleven, at sundown that night,

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<v Speaker 2>at dusk, at a slaughterhouse on the outskirts of town,

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<v Speaker 2>a man named Ad Kessler was changing out of his

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<v Speaker 2>work clothes.

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<v Speaker 5>Now, I'll try to tell you as I remember it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's pretty clear in my mind there was a young

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<v Speaker 2>boy who hung around Kessler's crew while they worked. That evening,

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<v Speaker 2>the kid was out in the corral and then he

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<v Speaker 2>saw something.

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<v Speaker 5>He was frightened and he yelled to me.

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<v Speaker 6>Ad.

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<v Speaker 5>He says, there's a man here.

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<v Speaker 2>Kessler grabbed a meat hook and ran outside in his

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<v Speaker 2>long John's and riding boots. He thought maybe there was

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<v Speaker 2>a thief. But when he got to the corral, he

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<v Speaker 2>saw a part clothed, barefoot man, weakend and tired, leaning

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<v Speaker 2>against the fence. He tried to speak to the man

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<v Speaker 2>but got no answer.

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<v Speaker 5>At that time, I could talk pretty good Spanish, and

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<v Speaker 5>I talked a bit Spanish, but to no response. I

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<v Speaker 5>used a little profanity. He didn't understand that either.

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<v Speaker 7>Kessler was puzzled, so he called the sheriff and I.

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<v Speaker 5>Told him, I, John, I've got something out here the

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<v Speaker 5>slaughter house. I think you should come out and investigate.

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<v Speaker 2>The sheriff came. They handcuffed the man and they headed

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<v Speaker 2>to the jail. They put him in a padded cell.

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<v Speaker 5>There he was all alone. He didn't have at least

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<v Speaker 5>idea of what was going to happen to him. Closed

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<v Speaker 5>the door, turned the key in it, and he stood

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<v Speaker 5>right behind them bars and looked in the morning. The

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<v Speaker 5>jailer was out sweeping off the steps, and I asked

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<v Speaker 5>to be sayst what happened to my boy last night?

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<v Speaker 5>He says he never slept a wink.

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<v Speaker 2>This tape is from a talk Ad Kessler gave to

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<v Speaker 2>a high school class in nineteen seventy three. Big guy

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<v Speaker 2>with a crew cut talking to a bunch of board teens,

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<v Speaker 2>telling his big story, the one that's been punching his

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<v Speaker 2>meal ticket for sixty two years, because that moment of

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<v Speaker 2>encounter set in motion a whole series of events that

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<v Speaker 2>forever changed California. It's a story that's been told in

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of ways by a lot of different people,

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<v Speaker 2>but Kessler is pretty ornery about his version, and his

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<v Speaker 2>story matches the newspaper record.

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<v Speaker 8>There is a.

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<v Speaker 5>Book wrote by a lady, but it's not correct. What

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<v Speaker 5>I've just told you is the facts.

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<v Speaker 9>As it were.

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<v Speaker 2>Word got out quick about the stranger who didn't speak

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<v Speaker 2>any language anyone recognized. There were sinceational stories in newspapers

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<v Speaker 2>across the state. They'd figured out the man was probably

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<v Speaker 2>an American Indian. The most plausible theory was that he

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<v Speaker 2>was the only survivor of a people who had been

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<v Speaker 2>wiped out by white settlers during and after the gold Rush,

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<v Speaker 2>killed by a genocide, though the word didn't yet exist,

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<v Speaker 2>and if it had, they wouldn't have used it, But

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<v Speaker 2>there is no other word for it. There had been

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<v Speaker 2>hundreds of thousands of American Indians in the land we

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<v Speaker 2>now know as California before the gold Rush. There were

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<v Speaker 2>only about twenty thousand by the turn of the century.

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<v Speaker 2>And this man's people were gone, all of them gone,

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<v Speaker 2>save apparently for one him.

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<v Speaker 4>People had been looking for his group, his community for

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<v Speaker 4>some time. People knew that there were some Indigenous people

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<v Speaker 4>in the woods in that general area who they've speculated

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<v Speaker 4>were Yahis.

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<v Speaker 2>Andrew Garrett is a professor of linguistics at the University

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<v Speaker 2>of californ Ornia, Berkeley and directs the California Language Archive.

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<v Speaker 2>There because California, before Spanish, Mexican and American settlement was

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<v Speaker 2>full of languages, about ninety different ones, vastly different from

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<v Speaker 2>each other. I met Garrett in his office on campus

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<v Speaker 2>one day. There was a mountain of fresh mid terms

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<v Speaker 2>on the table and bits and pieces of a language

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<v Speaker 2>on the whiteboard.

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<v Speaker 4>So there was this sense that they were out there

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<v Speaker 4>somewhere those people.

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<v Speaker 2>Garrett works on how languages change over time, so he's

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<v Speaker 2>often in the archives using notes produced by the earliest

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<v Speaker 2>anthropologists in California, and he often refers back to one

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<v Speaker 2>in particular, Alfred Kroeber, who founded the anthropology department at

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<v Speaker 2>Berkeley in nineteen eleven. Kroeber was working with a colleague

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<v Speaker 2>to document the languages and cultures of indigenous people in California,

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<v Speaker 2>especially those cultures which they believed to be vanishing. The

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<v Speaker 2>community of people who spoke a language Kroeber called Yahe

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<v Speaker 2>after its word for person, had lived near Oroville, but

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<v Speaker 2>the townspeople hadn't seen them for years. If the stranger

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<v Speaker 2>in the jail was the last member of the Yahi people,

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<v Speaker 2>the anthropologists felt they needed to reach him, so Krober

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<v Speaker 2>telegrammed ahead and his colleague got on a train north

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<v Speaker 2>to the Oraville jail, where the man had been held

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<v Speaker 2>for two days. By the time he arrived, the jail

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<v Speaker 2>was a scene. This was the biggest thing that happened

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<v Speaker 2>to Oroville since the gold Rush. People had been sending

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<v Speaker 2>in food and clothes, crowding around trying to get a

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<v Speaker 2>look at the man. The anthropologist made his way through

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<v Speaker 2>the crowd and up to the cell. He sat down

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<v Speaker 2>opposite the man and pulled out a vocabulary book full

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<v Speaker 2>of Yana words, a related language to the one he

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<v Speaker 2>thought the yah he might speak. One by one, He

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<v Speaker 2>read the words off the list, nothing and more nothing,

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<v Speaker 2>until he reached the Yana word for yellow pine. He

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<v Speaker 2>set it and touched the pine bed frame in the cell.

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<v Speaker 2>The man's face lit up a match, then more matches.

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<v Speaker 2>The man asked the anthropologist if he was a Yahi.

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<v Speaker 2>It was the community Kroger had been looking for. In

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen eleven. American Indians weren't legally US citizens. They were

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<v Speaker 2>treated like wards of this state. So Kroger asked what

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<v Speaker 2>later became known as the Bureau of Indian Affairs for

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<v Speaker 2>permission to take the man into custody. It came within days.

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<v Speaker 2>The anthropologist, a Yana interpreter named Batwi, and the man

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<v Speaker 2>boarded a train to Oakland. From there, they took the

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<v Speaker 2>ferry to San Francisco and then the trolley to the

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<v Speaker 2>Museum of Anthropology. They got there just before midnight.

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<v Speaker 4>This was September nineteen eleven. They were kind of preparing

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<v Speaker 4>to open the Anthropology Museum to the public. Indian people

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<v Speaker 4>who came to visit often stayed there for some period

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<v Speaker 4>of time. There were always staff members who lived there.

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<v Speaker 2>There were apartments in the museum, and the Yahi man

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<v Speaker 2>slept there. The next morning, Alfred Krober came to meet him.

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<v Speaker 2>Krober was in his thirties, quiet, strong, chin, full beard.

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<v Speaker 2>People came to call him the Dean of American anthropology.

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<v Speaker 2>He was a cultural relativist who stood against the mainstream

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<v Speaker 2>of anthropology, which had this kind of racialized evolutionary theory

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<v Speaker 2>that thought cultures progressed from what they considered to be

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<v Speaker 2>more primitive states to something that, of course resembled European civilization.

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<v Speaker 2>Krober believed other cultures were valid in their own right,

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<v Speaker 2>but he was also trying to make a name for

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<v Speaker 2>his department in his new museum. In Krober's view, every

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<v Speaker 2>person was a product of their culture, like a codex.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think that meeting this man was to him

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<v Speaker 2>like finding the Rosetta stone, except for one sticky fact.

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<v Speaker 2>The man was a person, not an artifact. That's the

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<v Speaker 2>challenge of all anthropology, studying someone without betraying their humanity.

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<v Speaker 2>Krober needed a name to call the man by, but

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<v Speaker 2>the man wouldn't share his name with p people he

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<v Speaker 2>just met, so Kroeber called him by a Yahi word

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<v Speaker 2>that meant man Ishi.

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<v Speaker 4>Kerber he was never actually seemingly interested in present day cultures,

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<v Speaker 4>but only in former cultures, because the form only the

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<v Speaker 4>former cultures were uncontaminated by Europeans. So there's a way

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<v Speaker 4>in which like having only one person as a representative

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<v Speaker 4>of a culture is not problematic, because your goal is

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<v Speaker 4>just to find the exemplar of the pure culture. And

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<v Speaker 4>so I think from that perspective, the fantasy of Ishi

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<v Speaker 4>is that he's this pure exemplar, when actually, of course

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<v Speaker 4>he's just a person.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeshi moved into the museum, and soon after the work

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<v Speaker 2>of studying and preserving Yahi culture began. We'll be right

0:13:55.275 --> 0:14:03.635
<v Speaker 2>back over time. The anthropologist Alfred Kroeger got to know

0:14:03.715 --> 0:14:06.515
<v Speaker 2>Ishi's story, even though she didn't like to talk about

0:14:06.555 --> 0:14:09.955
<v Speaker 2>his past. It depressed him, and for good reason. His

0:14:09.995 --> 0:14:12.355
<v Speaker 2>hair was still burned short in mourning for his mother

0:14:12.395 --> 0:14:16.155
<v Speaker 2>and sister, who died some years before. He'd lived alone

0:14:16.195 --> 0:14:19.035
<v Speaker 2>in the canyons ever since then, and now he was

0:14:19.075 --> 0:14:21.635
<v Speaker 2>living in a museum in San Francisco.

0:14:21.995 --> 0:14:26.635
<v Speaker 4>But he was asked, supposedly multiple times by people, did

0:14:26.635 --> 0:14:28.515
<v Speaker 4>he want to go back or did he want to

0:14:28.515 --> 0:14:32.195
<v Speaker 4>go somewhere else, And supposedly he always said no. It's

0:14:32.235 --> 0:14:34.475
<v Speaker 4>a kind of complicated question because they were The people

0:14:34.515 --> 0:14:38.715
<v Speaker 4>who are reporting this are all people who benefit from

0:14:39.275 --> 0:14:41.955
<v Speaker 4>him being happy where he was, you know. And well

0:14:42.035 --> 0:14:45.115
<v Speaker 4>they were not neutral people. They were his white friends

0:14:45.155 --> 0:14:48.235
<v Speaker 4>who you know, I think the story is good if

0:14:48.915 --> 0:14:51.115
<v Speaker 4>he wasn't a prisoner from their point of view.

0:14:51.835 --> 0:14:54.915
<v Speaker 2>Reportedly, she told agents from the Bureau of Indian Affairs

0:14:54.955 --> 0:14:58.235
<v Speaker 2>through his Yana interpreter, quote, I will grow old here

0:14:58.315 --> 0:15:01.475
<v Speaker 2>and die in this house. He worked part time as

0:15:01.475 --> 0:15:04.355
<v Speaker 2>a janitor at the museum when it opened about a

0:15:04.395 --> 0:15:06.835
<v Speaker 2>month after his arrival. He was at the opening night

0:15:06.875 --> 0:15:10.475
<v Speaker 2>gala in a small back room. When people rehashed this

0:15:10.595 --> 0:15:13.355
<v Speaker 2>history now in a critical light, they say that Ishi

0:15:13.475 --> 0:15:16.475
<v Speaker 2>was a living exhibit stuck in the museum. Because he

0:15:16.515 --> 0:15:19.715
<v Speaker 2>soon began to do demonstrations of Yahie culture on Sundays,

0:15:20.395 --> 0:15:23.715
<v Speaker 2>he was a major draw. The San Francisco Examiner called

0:15:23.795 --> 0:15:28.755
<v Speaker 2>him creepily its most interesting exhibit. He'd show crafts like

0:15:28.835 --> 0:15:33.715
<v Speaker 2>making arrowheads, weaving baskets, starting fires, the things he made

0:15:33.835 --> 0:15:37.195
<v Speaker 2>the museum kept in its collection. Tens of thousands of

0:15:37.235 --> 0:15:40.355
<v Speaker 2>people came to those demonstrations over the course of the

0:15:40.355 --> 0:15:43.475
<v Speaker 2>next year, and that was more people in one place

0:15:43.715 --> 0:15:46.875
<v Speaker 2>than she had ever seen. Then there were all the

0:15:46.915 --> 0:15:50.795
<v Speaker 2>ancestral remains the Museum of Anthropology kept. He'd locked his

0:15:50.875 --> 0:15:56.115
<v Speaker 2>door each night, but he had some agency within a

0:15:56.115 --> 0:16:00.835
<v Speaker 2>limited band. Gerald Visner, the writer, scholar, and member of

0:16:00.875 --> 0:16:03.795
<v Speaker 2>the Chippawa tribe, has written a lot about how Yishi

0:16:04.075 --> 0:16:07.635
<v Speaker 2>had an act of role in shaping his situation. Visner

0:16:07.835 --> 0:16:13.035
<v Speaker 2>calls it his survivanceval and resistance, because is she seems

0:16:13.075 --> 0:16:16.515
<v Speaker 2>to have taken most everything in stride. He made some money,

0:16:16.955 --> 0:16:19.715
<v Speaker 2>memorized the street cars, and began to make his way

0:16:19.715 --> 0:16:22.675
<v Speaker 2>around town. He liked to go to the movies and

0:16:22.755 --> 0:16:26.835
<v Speaker 2>made friends around the city. Later people would remember him fondly,

0:16:27.195 --> 0:16:29.355
<v Speaker 2>like a little boy who said Ishi had made him

0:16:29.355 --> 0:16:31.755
<v Speaker 2>a bow and arrow and taught him how to shoot lizards,

0:16:32.115 --> 0:16:35.835
<v Speaker 2>made him a net for catching minnows and rabbits skin moccasins.

0:16:36.835 --> 0:16:39.955
<v Speaker 2>The newspapers told Ishi's story as if he time traveled

0:16:39.955 --> 0:16:43.355
<v Speaker 2>from the Stone Age to the modern world, like Whenihi

0:16:43.395 --> 0:16:46.195
<v Speaker 2>walked barefoot into a vaudeville show at the Orpheum Theater

0:16:46.515 --> 0:16:49.475
<v Speaker 2>and supposedly called it Heaven for white people. Or the

0:16:49.555 --> 0:16:52.035
<v Speaker 2>day she saw a plane in the sky and asked

0:16:52.035 --> 0:16:53.875
<v Speaker 2>in a kind of amused way if a white man

0:16:53.915 --> 0:16:57.435
<v Speaker 2>were flying it. He is exactly forty thousand years behind

0:16:57.475 --> 0:17:01.315
<v Speaker 2>the times. One journalist wrote, some writers were disappointed to

0:17:01.315 --> 0:17:05.235
<v Speaker 2>see their romantic fantasy, the uncontaminated man who never told

0:17:05.235 --> 0:17:09.195
<v Speaker 2>a lie, smoking cigars and wearing shoes. It was absurd

0:17:10.395 --> 0:17:12.995
<v Speaker 2>to me. It seems like he had apted unbelievably quickly.

0:17:13.315 --> 0:17:15.995
<v Speaker 2>I mean, he had completely reinvented his life, and he

0:17:16.075 --> 0:17:18.955
<v Speaker 2>was probably in his fifties. He was curious to try

0:17:18.995 --> 0:17:22.595
<v Speaker 2>new things and willing to set limits. Once a reporter

0:17:22.675 --> 0:17:25.395
<v Speaker 2>asked him to put on animal skins for a photograph,

0:17:25.515 --> 0:17:27.835
<v Speaker 2>and he said he wouldn't because he didn't see anyone

0:17:27.835 --> 0:17:28.795
<v Speaker 2>else wearing them.

0:17:29.275 --> 0:17:34.035
<v Speaker 6>He seems to land in this particular location with a

0:17:34.115 --> 0:17:39.315
<v Speaker 6>kind of intelligence and consciousness right of the situation that

0:17:39.635 --> 0:17:43.835
<v Speaker 6>people around him don't necessarily understand that he has. And

0:17:43.915 --> 0:17:49.915
<v Speaker 6>that makes him, you know, crafty and intelligent and wiy

0:17:50.075 --> 0:17:53.995
<v Speaker 6>and smart and in all in all kinds of ways.

0:17:54.955 --> 0:17:58.555
<v Speaker 2>That's Philip Delauria, a professor of history at Harvard. He

0:17:58.635 --> 0:18:02.155
<v Speaker 2>specializes in Native American and American studies and is of

0:18:02.235 --> 0:18:06.115
<v Speaker 2>Dakota descent. He wrote a book I love called Playing Indian,

0:18:06.435 --> 0:18:09.955
<v Speaker 2>which is about how white Americans navigated national identity and

0:18:10.035 --> 0:18:13.555
<v Speaker 2>their feelings about modernity through a kind of Indian cosplay.

0:18:13.915 --> 0:18:16.755
<v Speaker 2>It's why the country was so fascinated by Isshi.

0:18:17.835 --> 0:18:20.515
<v Speaker 6>It's why he's such an astonishing figure. He's not an

0:18:20.475 --> 0:18:23.515
<v Speaker 6>astonishing figure because he survives and comes out of the

0:18:23.555 --> 0:18:25.475
<v Speaker 6>woods and ends up in a museum. I think he's

0:18:25.475 --> 0:18:27.595
<v Speaker 6>an astonishing figure because of the ways in which he

0:18:27.675 --> 0:18:29.715
<v Speaker 6>sees his situation and acts within it.

0:18:32.475 --> 0:18:36.035
<v Speaker 2>To most people, Ishi was just a symbol, a tragic fantasy,

0:18:36.675 --> 0:18:39.835
<v Speaker 2>not just the last Yahi, but the last wild Indian.

0:18:40.715 --> 0:18:44.355
<v Speaker 2>To white Americans, it represented the triumph of European civilization

0:18:44.715 --> 0:18:49.075
<v Speaker 2>over Indigenous America. Inevitable, the kind of thing you wept

0:18:49.075 --> 0:18:53.595
<v Speaker 2>over only once victory was assured. Anthropology was a kind

0:18:53.635 --> 0:18:57.315
<v Speaker 2>of rearguard action, salvaging what could be salvage, to use

0:18:57.355 --> 0:19:00.795
<v Speaker 2>their term in a sort of apologetic way. But some

0:19:00.875 --> 0:19:03.675
<v Speaker 2>of what's complicated here is that the things they preserved

0:19:03.755 --> 0:19:06.675
<v Speaker 2>were kept in institutions like Berkeley, which is on land

0:19:06.715 --> 0:19:11.435
<v Speaker 2>that was taken from the alone people. Anthropologists worked within

0:19:11.555 --> 0:19:15.115
<v Speaker 2>that paradox, but they weren't given to ask questions about

0:19:15.195 --> 0:19:18.395
<v Speaker 2>why these cultures were disappearing or what might be done

0:19:18.675 --> 0:19:22.235
<v Speaker 2>to stop it. The idea that it was already too late,

0:19:22.835 --> 0:19:25.675
<v Speaker 2>it was baked into the work. The field was a

0:19:25.675 --> 0:19:30.515
<v Speaker 2>puzzle box, just like Krober. He thought Eugenix was ridiculous,

0:19:30.635 --> 0:19:32.435
<v Speaker 2>but he was also the head of a department that

0:19:32.475 --> 0:19:36.235
<v Speaker 2>collected human remains from tribal grave sites. In one article,

0:19:36.475 --> 0:19:39.035
<v Speaker 2>he calls you Shet a man in every sense, and

0:19:39.075 --> 0:19:42.635
<v Speaker 2>then he compares him to a puppy Krober.

0:19:42.315 --> 0:19:45.715
<v Speaker 6>And all the generations that surround him and that came

0:19:45.795 --> 0:19:49.555
<v Speaker 6>after him, you know, they're all the errors of this

0:19:49.675 --> 0:19:51.955
<v Speaker 6>kind of you know, this kind of doubled consciousness of

0:19:51.995 --> 0:19:55.115
<v Speaker 6>the anthropologist of the time. You know, it feels like

0:19:55.155 --> 0:19:58.235
<v Speaker 6>you're making a very you know, progressive kind of move

0:19:58.955 --> 0:20:01.315
<v Speaker 6>while at the same time you're looking at them as

0:20:01.315 --> 0:20:04.395
<v Speaker 6>objects of study. You've got a whole kind of primitivist

0:20:04.475 --> 0:20:07.515
<v Speaker 6>veneer that's hard to get away from, you know. So

0:20:07.555 --> 0:20:10.595
<v Speaker 6>they couldn't help. These folks couldn't help but be contradictory,

0:20:10.715 --> 0:20:13.115
<v Speaker 6>you know, in their consciousness about how they were viewing

0:20:13.195 --> 0:20:17.955
<v Speaker 6>Native people as vestiges and remnants of these cultures the past,

0:20:18.075 --> 0:20:21.635
<v Speaker 6>and yet as opportunities for them to think in progressive

0:20:21.715 --> 0:20:24.755
<v Speaker 6>and you know, theoretically enlightened kinds of ways.

0:20:25.715 --> 0:20:28.755
<v Speaker 2>Is She was on stage during those demonstrations at the museum,

0:20:29.155 --> 0:20:33.115
<v Speaker 2>but so was Krober. They were both performing something is

0:20:33.235 --> 0:20:37.955
<v Speaker 2>She was playing Indian, Krober was playing anthropologists. Yes, she

0:20:38.115 --> 0:20:40.955
<v Speaker 2>was making the most of a bad situation. But he

0:20:41.035 --> 0:20:45.995
<v Speaker 2>barely spoke English, and the anthropologists barely spoke Yahi. So

0:20:46.115 --> 0:20:49.395
<v Speaker 2>this story, the way I at least can tell it,

0:20:49.395 --> 0:20:51.835
<v Speaker 2>it's as much about the people around Yishi as it

0:20:51.915 --> 0:20:54.635
<v Speaker 2>is about the man himself. And in the style of

0:20:54.635 --> 0:20:58.035
<v Speaker 2>my own family, it's about the meaning behind the story

0:20:58.075 --> 0:21:01.955
<v Speaker 2>they told about him, the ethics of their relationships, the

0:21:02.035 --> 0:21:05.555
<v Speaker 2>choices they made, and the ones they were about to make.

0:21:09.875 --> 0:21:12.755
<v Speaker 2>Krober and his crew were working with Ishi on setting

0:21:12.755 --> 0:21:16.155
<v Speaker 2>down what they could of the Ahi culture. They recorded

0:21:16.235 --> 0:21:19.875
<v Speaker 2>him telling stories on wax cylinders over fifty hours of

0:21:19.915 --> 0:21:21.435
<v Speaker 2>Is she telling Yahi tales?

0:21:22.115 --> 0:21:22.795
<v Speaker 10>Oh the work?

0:21:26.435 --> 0:21:29.875
<v Speaker 2>That's his voice, telling the story of the wood ducks,

0:21:30.195 --> 0:21:32.195
<v Speaker 2>about a man who'd been turned into a wood duck

0:21:32.715 --> 0:21:43.315
<v Speaker 2>looking for a wife. So wax cylinder recordings were hard

0:21:43.315 --> 0:21:46.675
<v Speaker 2>to make, but Ishi spent seven hours telling this story

0:21:46.715 --> 0:21:49.635
<v Speaker 2>across over one hundred different cylinders. It was one of

0:21:49.675 --> 0:21:52.995
<v Speaker 2>the first stories he told, and according to the anthropologist

0:21:53.235 --> 0:21:55.915
<v Speaker 2>Orin Starn, who wrote a great book about this history,

0:21:56.435 --> 0:22:00.115
<v Speaker 2>wood Ducks was at that point the longest recorded performance

0:22:00.195 --> 0:22:03.155
<v Speaker 2>of all time. It took a huge amount of stamina.

0:22:03.875 --> 0:22:06.235
<v Speaker 2>At one point, one of Krober's colleagues went to take

0:22:06.235 --> 0:22:09.195
<v Speaker 2>a phone call. When he got back, she told him

0:22:09.195 --> 0:22:12.555
<v Speaker 2>it would be better they kept working without breaks. He

0:22:12.635 --> 0:22:14.835
<v Speaker 2>was preserving a body of knowledge he knew would be

0:22:14.915 --> 0:22:18.235
<v Speaker 2>lost otherwise. But he also had things he wouldn't reveal,

0:22:19.035 --> 0:22:20.595
<v Speaker 2>just as he never revealed his name.

0:22:22.515 --> 0:22:24.955
<v Speaker 6>I think when you dig down into it, it's exactly

0:22:24.995 --> 0:22:28.155
<v Speaker 6>these kinds of things, of like, I know what you're doing, right,

0:22:28.435 --> 0:22:31.515
<v Speaker 6>the sort of sense where the indigenous person you know says, no,

0:22:31.595 --> 0:22:34.315
<v Speaker 6>I know exactly what you're doing, and I'm going to

0:22:34.395 --> 0:22:38.195
<v Speaker 6>act according to my own best rights and interests in

0:22:38.235 --> 0:22:41.035
<v Speaker 6>relation to what we're doing, so that what you're doing

0:22:41.075 --> 0:22:43.515
<v Speaker 6>becomes what we are doing together. Right. So there's an

0:22:43.515 --> 0:22:46.795
<v Speaker 6>insistence upon sort of active agency. It seems to me

0:22:46.915 --> 0:22:48.995
<v Speaker 6>like there's there's a fair bit of evidence for the

0:22:49.035 --> 0:22:51.035
<v Speaker 6>strategic use of anthropologists.

0:22:51.995 --> 0:22:55.795
<v Speaker 2>The anthropologists met with Esch often. They worked hours and

0:22:55.835 --> 0:22:58.995
<v Speaker 2>hours together. By this point they figured out how to

0:22:58.995 --> 0:23:01.755
<v Speaker 2>communicate to a degree, and they were, by all accounts,

0:23:01.795 --> 0:23:02.915
<v Speaker 2>friendly and easy.

0:23:02.675 --> 0:23:03.195
<v Speaker 7>With each other.

0:23:03.995 --> 0:23:06.595
<v Speaker 2>Is She would come over for dinner at Krover's, and

0:23:06.635 --> 0:23:09.075
<v Speaker 2>from everything I've read, it seems that he and Kroger

0:23:09.275 --> 0:23:13.715
<v Speaker 2>crew clothes. Ishi had a community of Berkeley acquaintances who

0:23:13.715 --> 0:23:15.995
<v Speaker 2>claimed to think of him as a friend, including a

0:23:16.035 --> 0:23:19.835
<v Speaker 2>man named Saxton Pope, a star surgeon at the University

0:23:19.875 --> 0:23:23.715
<v Speaker 2>of California. He and Ishi hung out a lot. They'd

0:23:23.715 --> 0:23:26.395
<v Speaker 2>go hunting with bows and arrows together, kind of like

0:23:26.435 --> 0:23:29.675
<v Speaker 2>a grown up version for Pope of playing Indian. Ishi

0:23:29.715 --> 0:23:32.755
<v Speaker 2>would visit Pope in the hospital. People thought he might

0:23:32.795 --> 0:23:34.995
<v Speaker 2>have been a healer in his past life because he'd

0:23:35.035 --> 0:23:37.995
<v Speaker 2>sit with sick patients and help the nurses clean their tools,

0:23:38.555 --> 0:23:41.155
<v Speaker 2>but he disapproved of how the hospital handled its dead,

0:23:41.595 --> 0:23:46.155
<v Speaker 2>cutting people open for autopsies. Ishi had a life in

0:23:46.195 --> 0:23:50.235
<v Speaker 2>San Francisco, but in the summer of nineteen fourteen, Crober,

0:23:50.715 --> 0:23:54.515
<v Speaker 2>his anthropologist colleague, and Saxton Pope proposed a trip back

0:23:54.555 --> 0:23:57.955
<v Speaker 2>to the land Ischi was from. Ishi was worried about

0:23:57.995 --> 0:24:01.835
<v Speaker 2>going back to that haunted place, but either he changed

0:24:01.835 --> 0:24:05.155
<v Speaker 2>his mind or they wore him down. They took the

0:24:05.235 --> 0:24:07.995
<v Speaker 2>train back up to the Yahi country where he'd hidden

0:24:07.995 --> 0:24:10.515
<v Speaker 2>alone for years, and they made camp.

0:24:12.835 --> 0:24:16.315
<v Speaker 8>It was on the left bank of rapid down hill Spree,

0:24:17.075 --> 0:24:18.195
<v Speaker 8>which I assume.

0:24:17.995 --> 0:24:22.755
<v Speaker 2>Was Dear Queen Saxton, Pope's son Saxton Jr. He went

0:24:22.795 --> 0:24:26.555
<v Speaker 2>on the trip. Years later, someone came to record his memories.

0:24:26.915 --> 0:24:28.675
<v Speaker 2>I think he must be reading a recollection.

0:24:28.755 --> 0:24:29.315
<v Speaker 7>He wrote.

0:24:29.475 --> 0:24:32.475
<v Speaker 2>It's a little stiff, but sometimes he laughs and sounds

0:24:32.475 --> 0:24:33.595
<v Speaker 2>to me like a kid again.

0:24:34.755 --> 0:24:40.835
<v Speaker 8>I was so, I thought. Chef with the group. It's

0:24:40.915 --> 0:24:43.195
<v Speaker 8>true that is She was in high good spirits on

0:24:43.275 --> 0:24:43.715
<v Speaker 8>the trip.

0:24:44.995 --> 0:24:47.595
<v Speaker 2>They hunted and cooked together, and they took a lot

0:24:47.635 --> 0:24:50.275
<v Speaker 2>of photos, many of them posed with is She once

0:24:50.315 --> 0:24:53.915
<v Speaker 2>again playing Indian. They wanted him to recreate an ancient

0:24:53.955 --> 0:24:57.275
<v Speaker 2>life that really he himself had never experienced, like this

0:24:57.355 --> 0:24:59.395
<v Speaker 2>one photo of Vish hunting the deer.

0:25:00.115 --> 0:25:03.915
<v Speaker 8>It will be noted that the deer from which he

0:25:04.635 --> 0:25:08.315
<v Speaker 8>is retrieving an arrow is propped up from behind with

0:25:08.435 --> 0:25:10.075
<v Speaker 8>a stick. And I did that.

0:25:15.515 --> 0:25:17.795
<v Speaker 2>It's all a bit of a mess, cringey in the

0:25:17.875 --> 0:25:20.515
<v Speaker 2>un self conscious way. They were asking Ishi to reenact

0:25:20.595 --> 0:25:23.955
<v Speaker 2>his past. They were idealizing the time before white people

0:25:23.995 --> 0:25:26.235
<v Speaker 2>had made contact with the Yahi. It was one of

0:25:26.275 --> 0:25:29.435
<v Speaker 2>the worst impulses of this type of anthropology, but of

0:25:29.435 --> 0:25:32.715
<v Speaker 2>course it was more complicated than that too. In some

0:25:32.795 --> 0:25:36.195
<v Speaker 2>of the other photos, there's a real affection. They lie

0:25:36.235 --> 0:25:38.555
<v Speaker 2>out at night in sleeping bags, swim in the river,

0:25:38.875 --> 0:25:42.195
<v Speaker 2>hunt together. The real historical value of the trip wasn't

0:25:42.235 --> 0:25:44.835
<v Speaker 2>the photos, but rather the maps of the land where

0:25:44.955 --> 0:25:47.715
<v Speaker 2>she had grown up, the place names for the places

0:25:47.755 --> 0:25:50.195
<v Speaker 2>where he'd lived and watched his family die.

0:25:50.875 --> 0:25:54.795
<v Speaker 8>What did not strike me at the time, and unexpected

0:25:55.395 --> 0:25:59.835
<v Speaker 8>certainly does now, how after such a life and such

0:25:59.915 --> 0:26:03.875
<v Speaker 8>early experiences he could ever have crusted a white man again.

0:26:05.755 --> 0:26:10.955
<v Speaker 8>His adjustment, however, was not without its complexities. On his

0:26:11.075 --> 0:26:15.035
<v Speaker 8>explosions into the Yanna cut feat on several occasions he

0:26:15.035 --> 0:26:18.675
<v Speaker 8>heard his mother and sister calling where no other member

0:26:18.715 --> 0:26:23.435
<v Speaker 8>of the party could hear, and presumably they weren't there.

0:26:24.595 --> 0:26:26.475
<v Speaker 2>They got back from the trip a little under a

0:26:26.515 --> 0:26:30.275
<v Speaker 2>month later, and life in San Francisco resumed its regular

0:26:30.355 --> 0:26:34.435
<v Speaker 2>rhythms for them all Kerber left on sabbatical, eventually landing

0:26:34.475 --> 0:26:38.595
<v Speaker 2>in New York, but somewhere in that time she became

0:26:38.715 --> 0:26:44.795
<v Speaker 2>visibly ill. It was tuberculosis, a disease to which American

0:26:44.835 --> 0:26:50.075
<v Speaker 2>Indians had no resistance. Five years after his arrest, is

0:26:50.195 --> 0:26:54.035
<v Speaker 2>she was dying. Kerber knew that when he did there

0:26:54.035 --> 0:26:57.515
<v Speaker 2>would be talk of an autopsy. That's what often happened

0:26:57.515 --> 0:27:00.995
<v Speaker 2>when someone died at the hospital. But in Hi's case,

0:27:01.195 --> 0:27:04.115
<v Speaker 2>there would be people who are especially interested, who thought

0:27:04.155 --> 0:27:06.675
<v Speaker 2>the final act of studying Yahia culture would be to

0:27:06.715 --> 0:27:07.835
<v Speaker 2>look inside his body.

0:27:08.755 --> 0:27:10.955
<v Speaker 7>Saxton Pope thought it much so.

0:27:11.075 --> 0:27:13.595
<v Speaker 2>Kroeber wrote a letter to the director of the museum

0:27:13.755 --> 0:27:17.915
<v Speaker 2>on March twenty fourth, nineteen sixteen, a furious and now

0:27:17.995 --> 0:27:21.995
<v Speaker 2>famous message. He wrote, as to the disposal of the body,

0:27:22.035 --> 0:27:24.635
<v Speaker 2>I must ask you, as my personal representative, to yield

0:27:24.675 --> 0:27:27.715
<v Speaker 2>nothing at all under any circumstances. If there is any

0:27:27.755 --> 0:27:30.315
<v Speaker 2>talk of the interests of science, then say for me

0:27:30.515 --> 0:27:33.595
<v Speaker 2>that science can go to hell. We propose to stand

0:27:33.595 --> 0:27:37.595
<v Speaker 2>by our friends. Besides, I cannot believe that any scientific

0:27:37.675 --> 0:27:41.595
<v Speaker 2>value is materially involved. We have hundreds of Indian skeletons

0:27:42.035 --> 0:27:46.355
<v Speaker 2>that nobody ever comes to study. The day after Kroger

0:27:46.395 --> 0:27:51.435
<v Speaker 2>sent that letter y she died, and then Pope had

0:27:51.435 --> 0:27:56.715
<v Speaker 2>an autopsy performed. They cremated is She's body afterwards, but

0:27:56.795 --> 0:28:01.115
<v Speaker 2>before they did, they removed his brain and they preserved it.

0:28:02.555 --> 0:28:05.355
<v Speaker 2>When Krober returned from a sabbatical, it was waiting for

0:28:05.435 --> 0:28:09.395
<v Speaker 2>him like a sick taunt, the physical container of all

0:28:09.395 --> 0:28:13.835
<v Speaker 2>that he'd been trying to prize FISHI. But it represented

0:28:13.835 --> 0:28:17.315
<v Speaker 2>something else too. Krober knew that she hated the way

0:28:17.355 --> 0:28:20.915
<v Speaker 2>anthropologists kept human remains in the museum. He now had

0:28:20.915 --> 0:28:23.955
<v Speaker 2>the chance to cremate the last part of Ishi's body

0:28:24.275 --> 0:28:27.035
<v Speaker 2>and reunite it with the rest of him, to do

0:28:27.155 --> 0:28:31.395
<v Speaker 2>the last right thing in a bad situation, but he didn't.

0:28:32.355 --> 0:28:34.875
<v Speaker 2>He sent Ishi's brain to the Smithsonian.

0:28:39.115 --> 0:28:41.915
<v Speaker 6>This is the thing about this story, right is you

0:28:41.955 --> 0:28:45.235
<v Speaker 6>know this kind of this kind of final betrayal you

0:28:45.275 --> 0:28:49.515
<v Speaker 6>know from Krober, really changes the story up. You don't

0:28:49.515 --> 0:28:52.035
<v Speaker 6>have to do what Kroeber did. You see the pictures

0:28:52.035 --> 0:28:54.395
<v Speaker 6>of them and they're you know, doing these things, and

0:28:54.435 --> 0:28:57.315
<v Speaker 6>it looks like a kind of partnership. It looks like

0:28:57.355 --> 0:29:00.475
<v Speaker 6>a potential friendship, It looks like this kind of relationship,

0:29:01.155 --> 0:29:03.395
<v Speaker 6>and you have to think, well, Okay, it probably was

0:29:03.475 --> 0:29:06.475
<v Speaker 6>at some level. But if at the end of the day,

0:29:07.275 --> 0:29:09.555
<v Speaker 6>you know, Kroeber is able to continue this kind of

0:29:09.595 --> 0:29:13.395
<v Speaker 6>prectice of dehumanization, you know, how does that? How can

0:29:13.395 --> 0:29:15.155
<v Speaker 6>you look back at all of these sort of images

0:29:15.195 --> 0:29:18.635
<v Speaker 6>of them together, sort of accounted them together, you know,

0:29:18.715 --> 0:29:20.315
<v Speaker 6>and see it in the same light. I just don't

0:29:20.315 --> 0:29:21.915
<v Speaker 6>think you you know, I just don't think you can.

0:29:24.635 --> 0:29:27.915
<v Speaker 2>What's hard about this history is there is no reliable narrator.

0:29:28.435 --> 0:29:32.235
<v Speaker 2>It's always more myth than fact. All the people setting

0:29:32.275 --> 0:29:34.475
<v Speaker 2>down the accounts. We have a Vish in San Francisco.

0:29:34.675 --> 0:29:36.715
<v Speaker 2>We're trying to see him as a record of his culture,

0:29:37.395 --> 0:29:40.595
<v Speaker 2>to practice pure anthropology, even if they thought of him

0:29:40.595 --> 0:29:43.475
<v Speaker 2>as a friend. That was how they told the story.

0:29:44.195 --> 0:29:48.755
<v Speaker 2>A man and a culture preserved. But that story left

0:29:48.755 --> 0:29:53.355
<v Speaker 2>a whole lot out. That's why I think Krober's daughter

0:29:53.755 --> 0:29:57.475
<v Speaker 2>retold it. She'd been born a Krober, but when she

0:29:57.555 --> 0:30:00.835
<v Speaker 2>got married, she took her husband's last name and added

0:30:00.875 --> 0:30:04.835
<v Speaker 2>it to the end of her own ursula croeber Legwin.

0:30:08.075 --> 0:30:08.875
<v Speaker 2>We'll be right back.

0:30:12.955 --> 0:30:16.075
<v Speaker 3>Well, I want to start out with a serious question

0:30:16.195 --> 0:30:20.635
<v Speaker 3>to you all, is what on earth are we all

0:30:20.635 --> 0:30:21.355
<v Speaker 3>doing here?

0:30:23.835 --> 0:30:27.435
<v Speaker 2>Ursula Kerber was born thirteen years after she died. She

0:30:27.515 --> 0:30:30.435
<v Speaker 2>was the fourth child, the youngest, and the only girl

0:30:30.435 --> 0:30:33.195
<v Speaker 2>in the bunch. She grew up spunky in a loud,

0:30:33.235 --> 0:30:36.915
<v Speaker 2>boisterous house of academics and academics to be. She was

0:30:36.995 --> 0:30:39.635
<v Speaker 2>very close to her mother, a lip smart woman named

0:30:39.675 --> 0:30:42.475
<v Speaker 2>Theodora who seemed like she could see into her kid's souls.

0:30:43.115 --> 0:30:46.435
<v Speaker 2>Her father, Alfred, looked outwards. Ursula thought of him as

0:30:46.475 --> 0:30:49.755
<v Speaker 2>a kind of wizard. He'd tell her creation myths and legends,

0:30:50.195 --> 0:30:55.555
<v Speaker 2>stories about other worlds. Every story could be told, except one,

0:30:56.115 --> 0:30:59.355
<v Speaker 2>a family one, the one about e she and her father.

0:31:00.315 --> 0:31:03.475
<v Speaker 10>She always said that it wasn't brought up when she

0:31:03.595 --> 0:31:04.115
<v Speaker 10>was a kid.

0:31:05.315 --> 0:31:09.035
<v Speaker 2>Julie Phillips is a writer, specifically the writer Ursula Lagwyn

0:31:09.155 --> 0:31:10.915
<v Speaker 2>handpicked to be her biographer.

0:31:11.955 --> 0:31:17.435
<v Speaker 10>She grew up understanding the value of cultural relativism, of

0:31:17.755 --> 0:31:21.155
<v Speaker 10>the notion that the culture that you're immersed in is

0:31:21.235 --> 0:31:25.235
<v Speaker 10>not the only culture, and that there are always other

0:31:25.275 --> 0:31:28.875
<v Speaker 10>ways of doing things, And she talks about how liberating

0:31:28.915 --> 0:31:30.315
<v Speaker 10>that was for her to know.

0:31:30.395 --> 0:31:35.835
<v Speaker 2>That anthropology was the backdrop to Legwin's life. But as

0:31:35.875 --> 0:31:39.635
<v Speaker 2>a kid, she wasn't reading textbooks. She was reading science fiction.

0:31:40.515 --> 0:31:42.955
<v Speaker 2>In the nineteen thirties and forties, sci fi was not

0:31:43.035 --> 0:31:46.475
<v Speaker 2>exactly held in high regard to her, though it probably

0:31:46.515 --> 0:31:50.515
<v Speaker 2>read like the best part of her dad's stories, exotic, exciting,

0:31:50.955 --> 0:31:53.195
<v Speaker 2>especially to a kid who never quite fit in.

0:31:54.235 --> 0:31:56.875
<v Speaker 10>She said, you know, in high school, I was in

0:31:57.035 --> 0:32:01.355
<v Speaker 10>exile in this Siberia of adolescent social mores. In the library,

0:32:01.395 --> 0:32:02.395
<v Speaker 10>I was home free.

0:32:03.635 --> 0:32:06.995
<v Speaker 2>Legwin always wanted to be a writer. After college, she

0:32:07.115 --> 0:32:10.515
<v Speaker 2>was writing poems and realist novels, and it was around

0:32:10.515 --> 0:32:13.955
<v Speaker 2>that time, in the late nineteen fifties, that she first

0:32:13.955 --> 0:32:18.595
<v Speaker 2>heard the story Avishi. Her dad kept getting asked to

0:32:18.595 --> 0:32:22.075
<v Speaker 2>write about it all, but he wouldn't. Instead, her mom,

0:32:22.115 --> 0:32:25.715
<v Speaker 2>Theodora did. Her book was published in nineteen sixty one,

0:32:26.035 --> 0:32:29.435
<v Speaker 2>and it was called Ishi in Two Worlds, A Biography

0:32:29.595 --> 0:32:33.475
<v Speaker 2>of the Last Wild Indian in North America. Ursula Legwin

0:32:33.635 --> 0:32:37.195
<v Speaker 2>always hated that subtitle because she said she wasn't wild.

0:32:37.515 --> 0:32:39.635
<v Speaker 2>He came out of a more deeply rooted culture than

0:32:39.675 --> 0:32:42.355
<v Speaker 2>the one he went into. But the book became a

0:32:42.395 --> 0:32:45.915
<v Speaker 2>big bestseller. It's been in print since the sixties. It

0:32:46.035 --> 0:32:49.115
<v Speaker 2>sold over a million copies and been translated into a

0:32:49.115 --> 0:32:52.155
<v Speaker 2>slew of languages, and it added a whole new dimension

0:32:52.195 --> 0:32:56.475
<v Speaker 2>to Ischi's story, the fact of genocide. It was, for

0:32:56.555 --> 0:32:59.835
<v Speaker 2>its time and author revolutionary, but it was also an

0:32:59.875 --> 0:33:03.555
<v Speaker 2>attempt to transform that pain into a healing narrative, a

0:33:03.675 --> 0:33:07.075
<v Speaker 2>salve for white liberal guilt. Legwinn talked about learning that

0:33:07.155 --> 0:33:10.875
<v Speaker 2>story late in her life in a documentaryalled The Worlds

0:33:10.875 --> 0:33:11.835
<v Speaker 2>of Versula Legwin.

0:33:12.835 --> 0:33:17.555
<v Speaker 11>My mother's book opened many people's eyes, including my own,

0:33:17.875 --> 0:33:21.835
<v Speaker 11>to the appalling history of the white conquest of California.

0:33:22.475 --> 0:33:27.275
<v Speaker 11>It's kind of hard to admit that your people did

0:33:27.315 --> 0:33:32.795
<v Speaker 11>something awful when I absorbed something like that. The way

0:33:32.835 --> 0:33:35.755
<v Speaker 11>I handle it is probably too put it into a novel.

0:33:37.035 --> 0:33:40.235
<v Speaker 2>Legwin was famously evasive about where her ideas came from

0:33:40.435 --> 0:33:43.675
<v Speaker 2>author's privilege. But I think that the revelation of Eshi's

0:33:43.715 --> 0:33:46.715
<v Speaker 2>story is at the foundation of her career because right

0:33:46.755 --> 0:33:49.955
<v Speaker 2>before her mother's book on Yeshi came out, her father died,

0:33:50.515 --> 0:33:54.955
<v Speaker 2>and at that exact moment she ditched her realist novels

0:33:55.395 --> 0:33:59.035
<v Speaker 2>and she started to write sci fi. Her mother began

0:33:59.115 --> 0:34:01.635
<v Speaker 2>working on a young person's version of the Eshi story,

0:34:01.955 --> 0:34:04.515
<v Speaker 2>a lightly fictionalized account which a lot of fourth graders

0:34:04.515 --> 0:34:06.515
<v Speaker 2>in California have probably had to read over the last

0:34:06.515 --> 0:34:10.915
<v Speaker 2>half century. Legwin read drafts and gave notes, and meanwhile,

0:34:11.115 --> 0:34:13.395
<v Speaker 2>she'd begun to work on her own first published novel,

0:34:13.955 --> 0:34:16.115
<v Speaker 2>a book called Rocanan's World.

0:34:17.355 --> 0:34:20.875
<v Speaker 10>She's just had a baby, her first child, and she

0:34:20.995 --> 0:34:23.755
<v Speaker 10>has really bad cabin fever, and I think that she

0:34:23.995 --> 0:34:27.635
<v Speaker 10>just needed to get out of the house. Imaginatively. So

0:34:29.355 --> 0:34:33.075
<v Speaker 10>Rocannon is her first anthropologist here, and she sends him

0:34:33.115 --> 0:34:35.715
<v Speaker 10>to explore a planet.

0:34:36.635 --> 0:34:40.115
<v Speaker 2>The anthropologist narrator was one of Legwin's first major innovations

0:34:40.115 --> 0:34:43.675
<v Speaker 2>in science fiction. It allowed her to smuggle a whole

0:34:43.715 --> 0:34:47.115
<v Speaker 2>set of big ideas from academic anthropology into science fiction,

0:34:47.755 --> 0:34:50.955
<v Speaker 2>because science fiction has always been sort of anthropological in

0:34:50.995 --> 0:34:54.835
<v Speaker 2>the worst way. Manifest destiny in outer space, like Flash

0:34:54.835 --> 0:34:59.715
<v Speaker 2>Gordon encountering aliens on the planet Mango, I can.

0:34:59.555 --> 0:35:02.435
<v Speaker 9>Only account for them as being a seller from the

0:35:02.515 --> 0:35:06.435
<v Speaker 9>original race thousands of years ago and having a numerous

0:35:06.475 --> 0:35:08.155
<v Speaker 9>planets on the Solar system.

0:35:08.715 --> 0:35:09.515
<v Speaker 8>Primitive, all right.

0:35:10.115 --> 0:35:12.155
<v Speaker 2>It was the exact same kind of story the white

0:35:12.195 --> 0:35:16.155
<v Speaker 2>settlers in California told themselves in Oraville in eighteen forty nine,

0:35:16.635 --> 0:35:19.475
<v Speaker 2>the same story white American kids were learning from their

0:35:19.515 --> 0:35:24.555
<v Speaker 2>favorite science fiction difference as threat until people began to

0:35:24.595 --> 0:35:28.155
<v Speaker 2>notice a changing guard in science fiction, including Legwin's writing

0:35:28.435 --> 0:35:30.835
<v Speaker 2>and her work as a public figure speaking at events

0:35:30.915 --> 0:35:32.715
<v Speaker 2>all over the world like Ossicon.

0:35:33.395 --> 0:35:35.395
<v Speaker 3>Do you people realize by the way that, to my

0:35:35.475 --> 0:35:38.195
<v Speaker 3>three children, science fiction is not a low form of

0:35:38.235 --> 0:35:41.715
<v Speaker 3>literature written by little contemptible hacks. It's the kind of

0:35:41.755 --> 0:35:43.235
<v Speaker 3>thing your own mother does.

0:35:45.795 --> 0:35:48.875
<v Speaker 2>She was raising three kids, living in Oregon. When the

0:35:48.955 --> 0:35:51.635
<v Speaker 2>kids were at school, she'd write. She'd start out in

0:35:51.635 --> 0:35:54.395
<v Speaker 2>September with a premise and finish a first draft by

0:35:54.435 --> 0:35:57.875
<v Speaker 2>March to polish off before summer vacation began. She'd found

0:35:57.875 --> 0:36:01.475
<v Speaker 2>a set of ideas, and in nineteen sixty six, five

0:36:01.555 --> 0:36:03.875
<v Speaker 2>years after her mom's book on he she came out

0:36:04.115 --> 0:36:09.235
<v Speaker 2>the floodgates opened. A Wizard of Earth, See the Left

0:36:09.275 --> 0:36:12.595
<v Speaker 2>Hand of Darkness, The Lathe of Heaven, The Dispossessed, and

0:36:12.635 --> 0:36:14.795
<v Speaker 2>The Word for World as Forest are some of the

0:36:14.795 --> 0:36:17.835
<v Speaker 2>most famous science fiction books of all time, and they

0:36:17.835 --> 0:36:20.155
<v Speaker 2>were all written in the ten year period that began

0:36:20.275 --> 0:36:23.115
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen sixty six, and I think all of them

0:36:23.195 --> 0:36:26.275
<v Speaker 2>are dealing with those themes from anthropology, the things that

0:36:26.315 --> 0:36:28.835
<v Speaker 2>were left out of the first telling of the Issy story.

0:36:29.755 --> 0:36:32.595
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's a coincidence that during that same stretch,

0:36:32.955 --> 0:36:36.715
<v Speaker 2>an American Indian civil rights movement was gaining steam. They

0:36:36.755 --> 0:36:39.235
<v Speaker 2>were responding to a new federal Indian policy in the

0:36:39.315 --> 0:36:43.555
<v Speaker 2>nineteen fifties known as Termination. After World War Two, the

0:36:43.595 --> 0:36:46.555
<v Speaker 2>government had wanted to end its recognition of tribes, move

0:36:46.635 --> 0:36:50.675
<v Speaker 2>them off reservations, and stop honoring its treaties to assimilate

0:36:50.755 --> 0:36:54.595
<v Speaker 2>American Indians into the mainstream. Alfred Kober had worked with

0:36:54.635 --> 0:36:58.115
<v Speaker 2>tribes on court cases early in those years. American Indians

0:36:58.155 --> 0:37:00.315
<v Speaker 2>responded with what came to be known as the Red

0:37:00.355 --> 0:37:03.315
<v Speaker 2>Power movement. One of their most famous actions came in

0:37:03.395 --> 0:37:07.595
<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixty nine, when a group of American Indians occupied Alcatraz,

0:37:07.835 --> 0:37:09.475
<v Speaker 2>the island prison in the Bay Area.

0:37:10.235 --> 0:37:12.595
<v Speaker 9>We will approach a set at Alcatraz Island for twenty four

0:37:12.635 --> 0:37:15.195
<v Speaker 9>dollars in glass beads and red cloth. We know that

0:37:15.235 --> 0:37:16.995
<v Speaker 9>twenty four dollars of trade goods is more than was

0:37:17.035 --> 0:37:19.475
<v Speaker 9>paid when Manhattan Island was sold, but we know that

0:37:19.595 --> 0:37:21.475
<v Speaker 9>land values have risen over the years.

0:37:21.915 --> 0:37:26.235
<v Speaker 2>The occupation lasted until nineteen seventy one. LeGuin was watching

0:37:26.355 --> 0:37:29.595
<v Speaker 2>as the script flipped on an entire history. Her family

0:37:29.595 --> 0:37:32.875
<v Speaker 2>had borne direct witness to, and she was writing her

0:37:32.875 --> 0:37:35.555
<v Speaker 2>most influential books at that exact moment.

0:37:37.075 --> 0:37:40.555
<v Speaker 10>She said that a lot of my protagonists are alone

0:37:40.555 --> 0:37:43.675
<v Speaker 10>of their kind among people of another kind. This is

0:37:43.715 --> 0:37:48.355
<v Speaker 10>Ishi's situation, also the situation of a field anthropologist, also

0:37:48.395 --> 0:37:51.715
<v Speaker 10>the situation, or so it seems to me, of most adolescents,

0:37:51.795 --> 0:37:56.155
<v Speaker 10>most intellectuals, most artists. I a stranger and afraid in

0:37:56.195 --> 0:37:57.155
<v Speaker 10>a world I never.

0:37:57.035 --> 0:38:02.315
<v Speaker 2>Need once you start looking for it. The traces of

0:38:02.355 --> 0:38:05.635
<v Speaker 2>Ishi's story are everywhere in le Guin's work, but the

0:38:05.715 --> 0:38:09.035
<v Speaker 2>really clear one about her father ANII. As the anthropologist

0:38:09.115 --> 0:38:12.515
<v Speaker 2>James Clifford is noted, is the word for world is forest.

0:38:13.235 --> 0:38:15.435
<v Speaker 2>People think of it as a novel written in protests

0:38:15.435 --> 0:38:18.235
<v Speaker 2>of the Vietnam War, also part of the basis for

0:38:18.275 --> 0:38:21.755
<v Speaker 2>the film Avatar. But it mirrors the concerns of the

0:38:21.795 --> 0:38:24.915
<v Speaker 2>American Indian movement. And it's profoundly about one of the

0:38:24.955 --> 0:38:29.435
<v Speaker 2>central tensions in anthropology, between being an objective observer or

0:38:29.475 --> 0:38:31.435
<v Speaker 2>an active activist participant.

0:38:32.515 --> 0:38:35.995
<v Speaker 11>And I suppose it's not too surprising in the anthropologist's

0:38:36.075 --> 0:38:40.795
<v Speaker 11>door to talk about two cultures bumping up against each

0:38:40.835 --> 0:38:42.035
<v Speaker 11>other that don't understand.

0:38:42.155 --> 0:38:42.835
<v Speaker 7>He said.

0:38:45.195 --> 0:38:47.795
<v Speaker 2>In the book, Earth has run out of lumber, so

0:38:47.835 --> 0:38:51.315
<v Speaker 2>they colonize a forest planet called Eths, She populated by

0:38:51.315 --> 0:38:54.715
<v Speaker 2>an alien race of gentle tree people descended from humans.

0:38:55.155 --> 0:38:59.155
<v Speaker 2>An anthropologist embeds with the colonizing force. He makes friends

0:38:59.195 --> 0:39:01.875
<v Speaker 2>with one of the aliens, and together they make a

0:39:01.875 --> 0:39:05.595
<v Speaker 2>careful record of Ethschian culture and spend hours working on

0:39:05.595 --> 0:39:08.955
<v Speaker 2>a dictionary of the native language together. But while the

0:39:08.995 --> 0:39:13.435
<v Speaker 2>anthropologist working on recording the culture, the colonizing force rapes,

0:39:13.555 --> 0:39:17.155
<v Speaker 2>pillages and burns the people in the planet. It would

0:39:17.155 --> 0:39:19.635
<v Speaker 2>be better if I had never known you, the alien

0:39:19.675 --> 0:39:24.675
<v Speaker 2>tells the anthropologist. LeGuin writes quote, he was not in

0:39:24.675 --> 0:39:28.675
<v Speaker 2>the anthropologist's nature to think what can I do? Character

0:39:28.715 --> 0:39:32.035
<v Speaker 2>and training disposed him not to interfere in other men's business.

0:39:32.595 --> 0:39:35.715
<v Speaker 2>He preferred to be enlightened rather than to enlighten, to

0:39:35.715 --> 0:39:38.875
<v Speaker 2>seek facts rather than the truth. But even the most

0:39:38.955 --> 0:39:42.475
<v Speaker 2>unmissionary soul, unless he pretends he has no emotions, is

0:39:42.515 --> 0:39:46.955
<v Speaker 2>sometimes faced with a choice between commission and omission. What

0:39:46.995 --> 0:39:51.075
<v Speaker 2>are they doing abruptly becomes what are we doing? And

0:39:51.115 --> 0:39:53.235
<v Speaker 2>then what must I do?

0:39:55.115 --> 0:39:57.435
<v Speaker 10>It seems to me that she was commenting on her

0:39:57.475 --> 0:40:01.875
<v Speaker 10>father's situation, and it seems to me that she would

0:40:01.875 --> 0:40:04.875
<v Speaker 10>not have admitted even to herself that she was commenting

0:40:04.955 --> 0:40:07.315
<v Speaker 10>on that situations.

0:40:06.235 --> 0:40:09.475
<v Speaker 7>And so clear though it feels so direct.

0:40:10.155 --> 0:40:10.995
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, I think it is.

0:40:11.955 --> 0:40:14.315
<v Speaker 2>In the end of the Word for worlds Forest, the

0:40:14.355 --> 0:40:17.795
<v Speaker 2>anthropologist dies in an alien raid, but his work saves

0:40:17.795 --> 0:40:20.515
<v Speaker 2>the planet. It leads to the end of the colony

0:40:20.635 --> 0:40:25.555
<v Speaker 2>and freedom for its indigenous people. But in reality, Legwynton

0:40:25.595 --> 0:40:28.715
<v Speaker 2>must have known that the situation is never that easily resolved,

0:40:29.435 --> 0:40:31.635
<v Speaker 2>and so I think it left the more interesting work

0:40:31.795 --> 0:40:33.955
<v Speaker 2>for the year after the Word for World is Forest.

0:40:35.195 --> 0:40:37.635
<v Speaker 2>That year began with a group of American Indian Movement

0:40:37.715 --> 0:40:41.395
<v Speaker 2>and Iglala Lakota activists occupying Wounded Knee in a high

0:40:41.435 --> 0:40:44.595
<v Speaker 2>profile protest, and it was the year La Gwynn published

0:40:44.595 --> 0:40:47.955
<v Speaker 2>one of her most famous stories, another story about the

0:40:47.995 --> 0:40:51.275
<v Speaker 2>dynamic between yes she and her father, The.

0:40:51.275 --> 0:40:57.195
<v Speaker 10>Really obvious story where she asks questions about her father's legacy.

0:40:57.515 --> 0:41:01.155
<v Speaker 10>Is the ones who walk away from Omlas.

0:41:02.555 --> 0:41:07.075
<v Speaker 2>Omlas, the story my dad loves about the utopia that

0:41:07.115 --> 0:41:09.795
<v Speaker 2>depends on that kid in the basement, the one that's

0:41:09.835 --> 0:41:12.315
<v Speaker 2>about what you think it's about, except.

0:41:12.115 --> 0:41:18.315
<v Speaker 10>It's not Omolas is us omilas is. You know, every

0:41:18.355 --> 0:41:21.795
<v Speaker 10>culture everywhere in a lot of ways, but it is

0:41:22.955 --> 0:41:30.115
<v Speaker 10>you know, it maps quite well onto European cultures in California,

0:41:30.475 --> 0:41:36.715
<v Speaker 10>which exist and thrive. You know, in the aftermath of genosime.

0:41:37.955 --> 0:41:41.275
<v Speaker 2>In Amalas, le Guinn tells you to imagine your own utopia,

0:41:41.875 --> 0:41:45.355
<v Speaker 2>but she's also describing hers, and I think she's describing

0:41:45.395 --> 0:41:48.435
<v Speaker 2>the Bay area. Here she is again reading from it.

0:41:49.155 --> 0:41:53.035
<v Speaker 3>In the streets between houses with red roofs and painted walls,

0:41:53.075 --> 0:41:56.115
<v Speaker 3>between old moss grown gardens and under avenues of trees,

0:41:56.835 --> 0:42:02.155
<v Speaker 3>past great parks and public buildings. Processions moved far off

0:42:02.195 --> 0:42:04.395
<v Speaker 3>to the north and west. The mountain stood up half

0:42:04.475 --> 0:42:07.995
<v Speaker 3>encircling Omlas on her bay. The air of morning was

0:42:07.995 --> 0:42:10.795
<v Speaker 3>so clear that the snow still crowned the eighteen peaks

0:42:11.075 --> 0:42:13.955
<v Speaker 3>burned with white gold fire across the miles of sunlit

0:42:14.035 --> 0:42:16.195
<v Speaker 3>air under the dark blue of the sky.

0:42:16.995 --> 0:42:19.035
<v Speaker 2>The person in the room in the public buildings of

0:42:19.035 --> 0:42:22.155
<v Speaker 2>Omolas is she in the room in the San Francisco

0:42:22.275 --> 0:42:26.075
<v Speaker 2>Museum of Anthropology. He was crafty and creative. He made

0:42:26.075 --> 0:42:28.395
<v Speaker 2>a new life for himself, but he never should have

0:42:28.435 --> 0:42:31.115
<v Speaker 2>had to. And the tens of thousands of people who

0:42:31.155 --> 0:42:33.835
<v Speaker 2>saw him in the museum, they knew what his presence

0:42:33.875 --> 0:42:36.835
<v Speaker 2>there meant, why he was there, what had been lost,

0:42:37.395 --> 0:42:39.715
<v Speaker 2>the costs that had been paid for, all the remains

0:42:39.715 --> 0:42:42.155
<v Speaker 2>of the cultures filling that building in the city by

0:42:42.195 --> 0:42:42.515
<v Speaker 2>the bay.

0:42:43.795 --> 0:42:46.915
<v Speaker 3>Sometimes also a man or woman much older, falls silent

0:42:46.955 --> 0:42:50.155
<v Speaker 3>for a day or two and then leaves home. These

0:42:50.195 --> 0:42:52.435
<v Speaker 3>people go out into the street and walk down the

0:42:52.435 --> 0:42:56.115
<v Speaker 3>street alone. They keep walking, and they walk straight out

0:42:56.115 --> 0:42:59.835
<v Speaker 3>of the city of Omilas through the beautiful gates they

0:42:59.875 --> 0:43:04.555
<v Speaker 3>go on. They leave Omolas, walk ahead into the darkness,

0:43:04.795 --> 0:43:10.195
<v Speaker 3>and they do not come back. The place they go to, Howards,

0:43:10.715 --> 0:43:13.435
<v Speaker 3>is a place even less imaginable to most of us

0:43:13.715 --> 0:43:17.715
<v Speaker 3>than the city of Happiness. I cannot describe it at all.

0:43:18.755 --> 0:43:22.635
<v Speaker 3>It's possible that it doesn't exist, but they seem to

0:43:22.675 --> 0:43:25.875
<v Speaker 3>know where they're going. The ones who walk away from Omanas.

0:43:28.235 --> 0:43:31.835
<v Speaker 2>The two choices in the story are stay or walk away.

0:43:32.875 --> 0:43:36.275
<v Speaker 2>But Legwin didn't neither. She kept coming back to the

0:43:36.355 --> 0:43:38.795
<v Speaker 2>same place and talking about it as if it were

0:43:38.835 --> 0:43:42.035
<v Speaker 2>another planet, talking about what was really going on there.

0:43:42.595 --> 0:43:44.915
<v Speaker 2>I think in the hopes that if she made it

0:43:44.955 --> 0:43:48.995
<v Speaker 2>strange enough, people would be able to see finally the

0:43:49.035 --> 0:43:50.795
<v Speaker 2>world around them.

0:43:50.995 --> 0:43:53.515
<v Speaker 6>It feels like every generation is trying to escape the

0:43:53.595 --> 0:43:57.035
<v Speaker 6>generation before and the generation before that, and you know,

0:43:58.475 --> 0:44:02.075
<v Speaker 6>always unsuccessfully, right, I mean always with partial success.

0:44:02.675 --> 0:44:06.715
<v Speaker 2>Philip Deloria, again historian of Native American and American history,

0:44:07.115 --> 0:44:09.315
<v Speaker 2>but also the son of one of the leading figures

0:44:09.315 --> 0:44:14.155
<v Speaker 2>in the Red Past movement, Vindaloria Junior, the intellectual lawyer

0:44:14.595 --> 0:44:17.275
<v Speaker 2>and member of the Standing Rock Sioux tribe who came

0:44:17.355 --> 0:44:20.435
<v Speaker 2>up with the term Red Power and famously thought very

0:44:20.435 --> 0:44:23.955
<v Speaker 2>little of anthropologists. Here he is in nineteen seventy two.

0:44:24.955 --> 0:44:28.715
<v Speaker 3>They continued to act as if the only valid Indians

0:44:28.755 --> 0:44:32.515
<v Speaker 3>were the first Indians that one of the anthropologists ran acrossed.

0:44:33.475 --> 0:44:36.595
<v Speaker 2>Leguinn was trying to escape her past without disowning it,

0:44:37.155 --> 0:44:40.475
<v Speaker 2>to keep working it over and reworking it. She did

0:44:40.515 --> 0:44:45.435
<v Speaker 2>not do it perfectly, but she tried. Her fiction was

0:44:45.475 --> 0:44:47.755
<v Speaker 2>one of the pathways the ideas of the Red Power

0:44:47.795 --> 0:44:51.155
<v Speaker 2>movement traveled to reach the mainstream. She helped pave the

0:44:51.195 --> 0:44:54.875
<v Speaker 2>way for reimagining the future, and she created new stories

0:44:54.995 --> 0:44:57.315
<v Speaker 2>to hold in the back of your mind if you

0:44:57.355 --> 0:45:00.155
<v Speaker 2>should ever find yourself in the corral at some slaughterhouse

0:45:00.155 --> 0:45:03.275
<v Speaker 2>in the future, looking at a person you don't understand,

0:45:03.915 --> 0:45:10.915
<v Speaker 2>trying to bridge the gap between two worlds. Ursula Crober

0:45:10.955 --> 0:45:14.755
<v Speaker 2>Legwin's writing changed science fiction, expanded the boundaries of what

0:45:14.795 --> 0:45:18.875
<v Speaker 2>could be imagined with huge moral imagination and empathy. But

0:45:18.955 --> 0:45:21.475
<v Speaker 2>there have been new futures hidden inside her father's work

0:45:21.515 --> 0:45:25.355
<v Speaker 2>that he didn't imagine either, because she was, of course

0:45:25.555 --> 0:45:29.115
<v Speaker 2>not the last. American Indian and tribal identity was more

0:45:29.155 --> 0:45:32.195
<v Speaker 2>complex and overlapped and long lasting than the turn of

0:45:32.235 --> 0:45:36.275
<v Speaker 2>the century anthropologists realized, and so a new generation of

0:45:36.315 --> 0:45:39.915
<v Speaker 2>American Indians in California are pulling the work their ancestors

0:45:39.955 --> 0:45:42.955
<v Speaker 2>did with the anthropologists at Berkeley out from the archives

0:45:43.275 --> 0:45:48.835
<v Speaker 2>and reclaiming that knowledge. Ishi's story had an unexpected future too.

0:45:49.195 --> 0:45:52.675
<v Speaker 2>In the late nineteen nineties, a mad man named Art Angle,

0:45:53.275 --> 0:45:57.795
<v Speaker 2>the anthropologist or In Starn and historian Nancy Rockefeller went

0:45:57.915 --> 0:46:00.355
<v Speaker 2>looking for Hi's brain, even when it was said to

0:46:00.395 --> 0:46:04.835
<v Speaker 2>be lost destroyed. But they kept looking for years until

0:46:04.835 --> 0:46:08.115
<v Speaker 2>they found it in a tank in an archive at

0:46:08.115 --> 0:46:11.755
<v Speaker 2>the Smithsonian. They got is She's brained back and buried

0:46:11.795 --> 0:46:13.995
<v Speaker 2>it with the rest of his remains on his ancestral

0:46:14.075 --> 0:46:17.555
<v Speaker 2>land in an undisclosed place. It was a big story

0:46:17.595 --> 0:46:20.235
<v Speaker 2>once again, and it became a rallying cry for a

0:46:20.235 --> 0:46:23.755
<v Speaker 2>movement to repatriate native remains from collections around the world.

0:46:24.595 --> 0:46:27.755
<v Speaker 2>In twenty twenty one, in response to activism on campus,

0:46:28.075 --> 0:46:30.715
<v Speaker 2>Berkeley took Crober's name off the building that houses the

0:46:30.755 --> 0:46:34.155
<v Speaker 2>department he founded, but they have been slow to repatriate

0:46:34.195 --> 0:46:38.675
<v Speaker 2>the many ancestral remains still in their collection. Meanwhile, one

0:46:38.795 --> 0:46:41.915
<v Speaker 2>hundred and twelve years after she turned up at that slaughterhouse,

0:46:42.395 --> 0:46:45.395
<v Speaker 2>no one's any closer to some essential truth about his story.

0:46:46.235 --> 0:46:50.475
<v Speaker 2>I asked Lauria about Legwin's work telling and retelling, excavating

0:46:50.555 --> 0:46:51.555
<v Speaker 2>that story's meaning.

0:46:52.395 --> 0:46:54.835
<v Speaker 6>And you can see yourself trying to escape some of

0:46:54.835 --> 0:46:59.475
<v Speaker 6>those things, which are negative possibilities, always unsuccessfully, you know,

0:46:59.875 --> 0:47:02.715
<v Speaker 6>And yet because you're conscious and you're aware of them,

0:47:02.915 --> 0:47:05.835
<v Speaker 6>you're dealing with them, perhaps writing five page short stories, right,

0:47:05.995 --> 0:47:09.515
<v Speaker 6>you know. I mean, so you're trying to come to terms,

0:47:10.155 --> 0:47:12.715
<v Speaker 6>never fully adequately, but you know the fact that you're

0:47:12.755 --> 0:47:15.955
<v Speaker 6>trying is actually probably worth something.

0:47:17.515 --> 0:47:20.115
<v Speaker 2>You have to try, even if you can never escape

0:47:20.155 --> 0:47:22.915
<v Speaker 2>the past, kind of like how you never quite escape

0:47:22.955 --> 0:47:25.995
<v Speaker 2>your parents, Which is why I guess I've just told

0:47:26.035 --> 0:47:28.435
<v Speaker 2>you a story that seems like it's about one thing,

0:47:29.515 --> 0:47:32.035
<v Speaker 2>when really it's about something else.

0:47:32.555 --> 0:47:32.955
<v Speaker 7>Entirely.

0:47:44.755 --> 0:47:48.595
<v Speaker 2>The Last Archive is written and hosted by Me Ben Nataphaffrey.

0:47:49.315 --> 0:47:52.395
<v Speaker 2>It's produced by me and Lucy Sullivan and edited by

0:47:52.395 --> 0:47:56.755
<v Speaker 2>Sophie Crane. Jake Gorsky is our engineer. Fact checking on

0:47:56.795 --> 0:48:01.155
<v Speaker 2>this episode by Arthur Gomberts. Sound design by Jake Gorsky

0:48:01.315 --> 0:48:05.595
<v Speaker 2>and Lucy Sullivan. Our executive producers are Sophie Crane and

0:48:05.715 --> 0:48:09.795
<v Speaker 2>Jill Lapourt. Thanks also to Julia Barton, Pushkin's executive editor.

0:48:10.675 --> 0:48:13.955
<v Speaker 2>Original music by Matthias Bossi and John Evans of stell

0:48:14.035 --> 0:48:17.355
<v Speaker 2>Wagon Symphonet. Many of our sound effects are from Harry

0:48:17.435 --> 0:48:21.395
<v Speaker 2>Jannette Junior in the Star Ganette Foundation Special Thanks to

0:48:21.435 --> 0:48:24.395
<v Speaker 2>Andrew Garrett and his upcoming book, The Unnaming of Croper

0:48:24.435 --> 0:48:27.635
<v Speaker 2>Hal Thanks also to Laura n Ader and the University

0:48:27.675 --> 0:48:31.995
<v Speaker 2>of Oregon Special Collections and University Archives. The Ones Who

0:48:32.035 --> 0:48:34.835
<v Speaker 2>Walk Away from Omolas by Ursula k Legwin is used

0:48:34.835 --> 0:48:38.915
<v Speaker 2>by permission of Curtis Brown Limited, Copyright nineteen seventy three.

0:48:39.395 --> 0:48:43.595
<v Speaker 2>All rights reserved. For a bibliography, further reading, and a

0:48:43.595 --> 0:48:46.195
<v Speaker 2>transcript and teaching guide to this episode, head to the

0:48:46.235 --> 0:48:50.235
<v Speaker 2>Last Archive dot com. The Last Archive is a production

0:48:50.355 --> 0:48:54.155
<v Speaker 2>of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show. Consider subscribing

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<v Speaker 2>to Pushkin Plus, offering bonus content and ad free listening

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<v Speaker 2>across our network for four ninety nine a month. Look

0:49:00.555 --> 0:49:03.475
<v Speaker 2>for the Pushkin Plus channel on Apple Podcasts or at

0:49:03.475 --> 0:49:06.515
<v Speaker 2>pushkin dot fm, and please sign up for our newsletter

0:49:06.635 --> 0:49:11.235
<v Speaker 2>at pushkin dot fm Slash Newsletter. Find more Pushkin podcasts,

0:49:11.355 --> 0:49:14.955
<v Speaker 2>listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

0:49:14.955 --> 0:49:15.915
<v Speaker 2>get your podcasts.

0:49:16.715 --> 0:49:17.875
<v Speaker 7>I'm Ben Mattahaffrey.