1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should Know, a production of My 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: Oh Boys, can be a long year. I'm Josh, there's Chuck, 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: there's Jerry over there, and this is stuff you should know. 5 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 1: May be long year, that the year is always the 6 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: same length. I almost forgot the word podcast in the intro. 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: That's an indicator it's gonna be a long year. We're 8 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: only going to do subjectively. We're only going to do 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,319 Speaker 1: this a hundred more times. Yeah, but we just did 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: one and three, so a hundred more d one more. 11 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: I think we do a hundred and four a year, 12 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: do we? Jerry? Yeah, because it's fifty two weeks times two. 13 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: That's what I meant, So we've done one. I was 14 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: just joking by hundred two more. Look bored, That's what 15 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: I'm saying, Long year, buddy. Jerry's got on her principal shoes. 16 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: She does. Josh just made Jerry walk up and down 17 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: the hall so I could hear the clip clop of 18 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: her of a wooden heel, and it definitely made me 19 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: like I had a little PTSD of like, oh boy, 20 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: someone's coming after us. It sounded like the principal was 21 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:19,919 Speaker 1: coming and we were in the office. We were smoking 22 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: in the boys room, which I never did. I never 23 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: did either, man, even when I was a high school smoker, 24 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: I was like, are you out of your mind? Smoking 25 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: the lobby in the I'd like escape, you know, campus 26 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: the smoke or whatever. Was there a smoking section at 27 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 1: your now, I wasn't that. What am I like your age? 28 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: I don't think there was by the time I got 29 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: there either, but I definitely remember maybe the first year 30 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: or so. But I definitely remember when my sister was 31 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: at my high school, she's six years older, there was 32 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: a smoking area by the dumpster and like that's where 33 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: they had a roped off her students could go smoke, 34 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: and they're crazy, it's awesome. They're like, hey, we know 35 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: it's a long day. If you need to go, if 36 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: you need to go light up, just do it over here. 37 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: That's the official place. Yeah, you need to go cool 38 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: it up cools, yeah, or go feel alive with pleasure 39 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: this newport. Yeah. I think so. I did smoke on 40 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: a plane a couple of times. I was on one 41 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: flight that I remember that had smoking, an international flight, 42 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: and it was like, it's crazy. Yeah, there's no barrier, 43 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: no partition, no nothing. It's just these are the roads 44 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: that you consider in and smoke, which is all based 45 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: the whole plane is a smoking section. Yeah, point, it 46 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: is crazy. It's always funny when I see movies where 47 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: people are smoking on busses and planes and restaurants, and 48 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: it's really different time, different day, different era. Speaking of 49 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: a different time, I guess it qualifies as a different time. Um, 50 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: I think today, Chuck, that we should talk about in 51 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: the era when people went postal trite and I'm looking 52 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: at something up relevant. By the way, I'm not just 53 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: checking my email right now. Well, I'll tap dance for us. Then. Well, 54 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: I was just curious if there was a band called 55 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: Going Postal, not if, but how many there were. And 56 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: I just typed in going Postal band, and uh, I 57 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: see quite a few Facebook pages called going Postal band, 58 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: Twitter accounts going postals, some with an end with a 59 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: little apostrophe going postal. Those are the little more loosey goosey, 60 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: like Jimmy Buffett style, like yacht rocky. Yeah so yeah, 61 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: of course people would take something horrific like workplace shootings 62 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: and turn it into a band name. Dude, not only 63 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: a band name. There's a franchise of male centers like 64 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: where you get your mail sent to called going postal 65 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: or got really nationwide franchise. Interesting, any article that you 66 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: read about the post office, it will be called like 67 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: going postal. Like it's completely been co opted and removed 68 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: from his context, so much so that I would guess 69 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: our younger listeners aren't fully aware of where that whole 70 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: thing comes from. Yeah, And I think not that it's 71 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: cool and acceptable, but I think the reason it's even 72 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,559 Speaker 1: allowed to happen to name things this now is because 73 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: we are now in an era where that term uh 74 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: as we'll learn in this podcast, and we've talked about 75 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 1: the golden age of skyjacking and the golden age of 76 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: this and that there was a weird golden age of 77 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: postal workers shooting up their workplaces and it hasn't happened 78 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: that much since then. And so that's what I think 79 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: has allowed people to be like, hey, good band name. Huh. 80 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: So I think because no one would call a band 81 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 1: school shooter now, you know, because that's the active horrific 82 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: thing going on. But it's the same thing. And you 83 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: could make a really good argument or case that it 84 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 1: grew out of the shooting. These were the first workplace 85 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: mass shootings that America is exposed to. And I would 86 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: put to you not that people don't shoot up post 87 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 1: offices any longer, but that when it does happen, it 88 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 1: is no longer even remotely as newsworthy as it once was, 89 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: because at the beginning, we didn't understand what the heck 90 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: was going on. Now we understand firsthand, all of us, 91 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: anybody who has a job in America now understands what's 92 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: going on. And it's also spread from beyond the post 93 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: office into offices around the country, businesses around the country, 94 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: and even into schools. Some people, yeah, some people make 95 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: the argument that neoliberalism is to blame, and I'm okay 96 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: with that, and that will explore that more later. Yeah, liberalists, 97 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: did you like I'm trying new things in the two 98 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: thousand twenty? Uh? Did you practice your delivery or all? Right? Well, 99 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: but I nailed it. I think I think so too. 100 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: I know that podcast on is looming on neoliberalism. It's 101 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: long been on your list, So just a matter of 102 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: getting around to it. I don't know how, maybe how 103 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: about five years from now? Alright? Within the next five years, 104 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: let's say that if we are still blessed enough to 105 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: be doing this job. You keep saying that because apparently 106 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: every time you do ten years passes and everybody's like, 107 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 1: aren't can you believe that you even said that? So 108 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: I just keep saying that because I want to keep 109 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: doing this. I think it's gonna neat to think about, 110 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: like having a twenty plus year partnership. Like there might 111 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: be a podcasting Hall of Fame one day we can 112 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: go visit it exactly, look at Mark Marin and uh, 113 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: Karen and Georgia. Maybe they'll give us a senior discount. 114 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: All right, So we should talk about and did you 115 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: write this one? Actually no, Dave Rouse did. Oh man, 116 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: he did a great job. And the way he put 117 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,679 Speaker 1: together the story I think works. Well, we're gonna follow 118 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: this format. Why not? Uh, if it ain't broke, don't 119 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: fix it. That's right, that's my mom tra And how 120 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: long are you going to do that? It's like January, 121 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: gonna do it all this month? So he starts off 122 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: with a story of a man named Patrick Henry Cheryl, 123 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: forty four year old man in Oklahoma City. His known 124 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: in his neighborhood as crazy pat. He was a big dude. 125 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: He was a loner um. He had a lot of 126 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: He ticked a lot of boxes when it comes to 127 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: mass shootings. He was basically like Pile from full mental 128 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: jacket when he was in Yeah, it sounds like, yeah. 129 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: He was a loner um. He had been caught as 130 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: a peeping tom um. He hurt animals. He would tie 131 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: cats and dogs defenses with baling wire. Not nice at all. 132 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: He was shy, he was awkward, didn't have a lot 133 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: of friends. He joined the Marine Corps, which is where 134 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: he learned how to shoot que private Pile once again. 135 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: And then after the Marines, he moved on with his 136 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: mom and when she died in he was alone with 137 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: his Ham radio. I don't want to throw any shade 138 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: at Ham Radio, at the Hams out there, because remember 139 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: we found out in our episode on Ham radios that 140 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: like they are the most courteous, that's right, like civic 141 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: minded people around. So this is a bad apple, right right. 142 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: He doesn't exemplify the Ham radio community. And I didn't 143 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: even want to mention that, but the idea of him 144 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: alone with his Ham radio bears mentioning it. You can't 145 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: obfuscate the truth. He's got to bring it out, address it, 146 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: and then you know, keep going. That's the man. In 147 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 1: eighty four he enlisted in the National Guard of Oklahoma. Uh. 148 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: And in he started work, as you know what, a 149 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: postal carrier in Edmund, Oklahoma. Right. So, he Um, by 150 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: all accounts, was a I don't know if disturbed is 151 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: the right word, but maybe it is. Certainly it's a 152 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: less balanced individual than than probably the average person for sure. Um. 153 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: So when he was told that he Um was going 154 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: to be fired if he didn't shape up, he wasn't 155 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: super great at his job now, he wasn't according to 156 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: his supervisors. He would deliver mail the wrong address. Um, 157 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: he would be late to work a lot, and he 158 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 1: was given a notice like you're gonna be fired if 159 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: you don't, if you don't start doing what we want 160 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: you to. Uh. The next day he showed up to 161 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: work and without saying a word. This is what makes 162 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: this one so creepy, he went to his supervisor, he 163 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: went to find the postmaster and he shot them without 164 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 1: saying a word. And he started moving around his workplace 165 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: at this Edmund, Oklahoma post office, and within fifteen minutes 166 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: had killed fifteen people, including himself. Yeah. Um. Side note 167 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: one of those people was the grandson of Notre Dame 168 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: football coach New Rockney. Um. People were locking themselves in vaults. Uh, 169 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: they survived, so he didn't kill everyone in the office, 170 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: which you might be asking, why is the post office 171 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: have a vault stamps? Yeah, they really care about those stamps. 172 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: They do valuable. They are people hiding in offices and 173 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: under their desks, and by the time the swat team 174 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: gets there, they find him dead at his desk. He 175 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: went to his desk and killed himself. Right, So fifteen minutes, 176 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: killed fifteen people, including himself, and did it without saying 177 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: a word. From what all people are saying. Yeah, and 178 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: this was, um, one of the bloodiest events in American 179 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: history mass shootings at the time. Um, there were a 180 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: couple before this, but this was pretty early on in 181 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: mass shootings. Um. Yeah, America had not really been fully 182 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: acquainted with mass shooting. Kid. They were so rare, so 183 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: rare that they were huge, huge, huge stories. And they 184 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: also seemed like total anomalies, not the very beginnings of 185 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: a pattern that was starting to emerge. That's not what 186 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: people thought of these things at the time. They you couldn't. 187 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: If you go back and like watch Dan Rather reporting 188 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: on this, he can't make heads or tails of it. 189 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: It's just the most senseless thing. That's what they use. Senseless, nonsensical, insensible, 190 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: like they just couldn't understand it. Yeah. The one um, 191 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: of course, the famous sixties six clock tower sniper and 192 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: at the University of Texas. Have you ever seen that 193 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: documentary on that. It's done in like the animation, through 194 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: the animation software like in Waking Life, and somehow it 195 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: makes it even more disturbing. I have not seen that, 196 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna see it because this stuff fascinates me. 197 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: UMO one, I don't know if we should ever cover 198 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: that one. The one that mcdonald'son California was just horrific. 199 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: That and the difference between that one and most of 200 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: these take place over it always seems like it's like 201 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: six minutes, ten minutes, twelve minuts. The one at the 202 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: McDonald's was seventy seven minutes of just bloodshed and shooting. 203 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: It was awful, It was so uh, but they were 204 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 1: still anomalies. They were anomalies. And this was the first 205 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: one that took place in an office. The New York 206 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: Daily News said, Cheryl put a new wrinkle to this 207 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: kind of violence. He brought it into the office, right, 208 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: So he was not the first postal carrier to come 209 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: to his workplace and shoot up the place, right. Um, 210 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: he he targeted like the back office. But there there 211 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: have been a couple before I saw, even going back 212 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: into the seventies, where postal workers had come to work 213 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: and shot the place up, usually targeting a supervisor. Yeah, 214 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: and it's it was never this many people, I think 215 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: was one of the big differences. That's a huge difference. Yeah. 216 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: The one in South Carolina, three I think, was just 217 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: one person um killed with the twelve gauge. The postbaster 218 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: barricaded himself in a storage room I ronically of a 219 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: convenience store. You'll see why later. So just put a 220 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: pin in that, but was actually killed in the convenience 221 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: store across the street. Yeah, and actually it wasn't just him. 222 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: There were other people barricaded in that convenience store storage 223 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: room with him, but he was the only one he shot. 224 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: And that's a pattern that started to emerge. The more 225 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 1: people started looking into these things, the more they were 226 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,959 Speaker 1: like a lot of these are They're not random. These 227 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: guys let people live that they could have easily killed, 228 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: and they went out of their way to find people 229 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: who they did kill or tried to kill. And a 230 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: lot of times it would be their supervisor or the postmaster, 231 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: somebody who was in charge of bossing them around, or 232 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: possibly a co worker who had you know, um, gotten 233 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: a promotion instead of them. Yeah, that happened specifically in 234 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: one case, and another guy was stalking a co worker 235 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: and he came to work, UM, and I think he 236 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: didn't end up killing her, Is that right? No, he 237 00:13:55,520 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: killed killed a male employee instead. So by the time 238 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: this Edmunds, Oklahoma, a lot of people will point to 239 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: that is like, that's not the first postal shooting. This 240 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: is the one that really started to catch everybody's attention. Yeah, 241 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: from eighty six to ninety nine, there were fifteen different 242 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: incidences or incidents, But you were right by the way, 243 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: I know, but it's just a mouthful. Um. That involved 244 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: current or former postal workers killing coworkers thirty four people 245 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: over a thirteen year period, which included that fourteen in Oklahoma. Yeah, 246 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: a lot of people point to is the peak of 247 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: the going postal era, not even necessarily because of all 248 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: the bloodshed that year, I mean there were some in 249 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: ninety three, but more just the way that it leached 250 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: into the cultural consciousness by that time, I think was 251 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: when it first appeared in print. To write. Ninety three 252 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: was when it appeared in print in the St. Petersburg, 253 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: Florida Times. And ironically, they were talking about a symposium 254 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: on workplace violence that was sponsored by the United States 255 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: Postal Service, and the article says, um which has seen 256 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: the US Postal Service has seen so many outbursts that 257 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: in some circles, excessive stress is known as going postal. 258 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: This is that same year Seinfeld debuted I think they 259 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: debuted Newman as a character, and they basically said he's 260 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: a postal worker and referenced postal workers going crazy. Sure, um, 261 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: who would you who would you like to be? I'll 262 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: be Newman? Okay, who are you? I gotta be George? Then, 263 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: I mean you had to tell the people that's what 264 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: I mean. Oh, I see, I thought you were presenting 265 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: me with a fake choice. Now let me this is George. 266 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: Let me ask you something. What do you do for 267 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: a living? Newman? That's my George? I mean United States 268 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: postal worker. Aren't those of the guys that always go crazy. 269 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: He come back with a gun and shoot everybody sometimes 270 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: remember that scene, so do I went and looked at it. 271 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: There's actually more to it. Did. They ask him why, 272 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: and Numan actually explains it, and there's actually a lot 273 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: of water to his explanation. It will turn out, he says, 274 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: the mail never stops. Mail never stops, right, it's always coming. 275 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: It's always and then it's publisher's clearing house weak or 276 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: something like that. He's like it never. They have to 277 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: like snap him out of like this tirade that he 278 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: goes on. But it's it's actually supposedly part of what 279 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: was responsible for this phenomenon, the ceaseless pressure to constantly 280 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: move the mail as fast as possible. I've been watching 281 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: Seinfeld a lot lately. Yeah, yeah, what do you think? 282 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: It's great? It holds up pretty well, holds up pretty well. Yeah, 283 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: it's it's and it's funny to hear Larry David um 284 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: because this was before I knew. I knew he created Seinfeld, 285 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: but before Curbs, so I didn't know what he looked 286 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: like or sounded like. And he's his voice a lot 287 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: like he's a voice of Steinbren and there's a couple 288 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: of other things, like they'll just be a random off 289 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: screen line and it's Larry David and now watching it, 290 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: it just cracks me up. It's but yeah, it holds 291 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: it pretty well. Obviously, it's some of it. We're in 292 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: different times now. Some of it's kind of like untoward 293 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: but not too bad. Okay, I'll just say that, Yeah, 294 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 1: it was. It was the nineties. No, I know, it's 295 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: a different era, different era, and that was even the 296 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: emergence of the PC era. But compared to today, it's 297 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 1: it's like like you can't see that kind of stuff. Um, 298 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: should we take a break or you got I got 299 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: one more cultural reference. There was a um, there was 300 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: a Simpsons and I don't know what year it came out, 301 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: but I'll bet it was around where, um, Flanders and 302 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: Homer become like best friends because Flanders takes Homer to 303 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 1: a football game and Flanders learns that he can't stand Homer. 304 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: It doesn't like to be around him, and he has 305 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,239 Speaker 1: a dream where where he climbs a clock tower with 306 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: a gun and starts shooting at Everybody's like, there's Homer, 307 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: there's another Homer. There's Homer, and one of the people 308 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: he shoots at is a postal carrier who drops his 309 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: mail bag and produces like an assault rifle and starts 310 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: shooting back. And it's just the most casual thing that 311 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: requires zero explanation whatsoever, because by this time everyone knew 312 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: going postal mail carriers. They're not just like some friendly 313 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: guy who you know, gets you know, chased off by 314 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: a dog every once in a while is the worst 315 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: thing that happens. This guy is like on the verge 316 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: of cracking and killing everybody, and he comes to my 317 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: house every day, like what is going on? And this 318 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: is when that kind of started to really rise to 319 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: the surface, that that question. Yeah, and like you hinted at, 320 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: I'm glad you picked this because it's there. Uh. As 321 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: it turns out there is something to it. It wasn't 322 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: just coincidence. And we'll talk a little bit more about 323 00:18:47,920 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: that in other cases spread after this. All right, So, 324 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: like we said, most of these killings occurred roughly over 325 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 1: eighty six to about ninety seven UM, but they date 326 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: back to eighty three and as late as two thousand 327 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: six UM. One of another big famous one was Thomas McIlvaine. 328 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 1: He was in Michigan. Yeah, Royal Loac, Michigan, just above Detroit. Yeah. 329 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: This guy was martial arts enthusiast and he was in 330 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: the Marine Corps as well, and he was discharged dishonorably 331 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: for running over a car with a tank. Okay, so 332 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: I was watching I read that as cat by the way. 333 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: The first like three times I read this running over 334 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: a cat with the tad, I was like, oh my god, 335 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: but it was a carcharged him not as bad unless 336 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: there was a cat in the car to he was driving. Yeah, 337 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: tuneses knew about going postal. Um. So there's a documentary 338 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: out there called Murdered by Proxy How America Went postal, 339 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: And they go to great lengths to to basically say 340 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: Thomas McIlvaine was not totally off his rocker, like he 341 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: was considered by his coworkers. Still today, people who were 342 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: there when he came and shot up the place, victims 343 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: of his shooting. Still some of them will say, I 344 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: don't condone what he did, but I totally understand it. 345 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: And when he was yes, because he was treated so 346 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: poorly by the management and so aggressively poorly and hostily 347 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: that that they basically said like this was just a 348 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: powder kig waiting to happen. And when they heard that 349 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: this was going on, they didn't know who it was not. 350 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: They said, like, we didn't just think I was Tom 351 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: Tom McIlvaine. They said, it could have been any one 352 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: of us because this this, this, this was so toxic there. So, yes, 353 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: it's easy to characterize him as a wing nut because 354 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: he shot up his post office and killed a bunch 355 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: of people. But there are other people who were there 356 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: who say, that's that's that's not a full picture of 357 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: of who he was. Yeah. I mean if there's a 358 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: situation where there is a um, a workplace shooting and 359 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: a hundred percent of the people don't go, oh, well 360 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: it was this guy, uh, then it might bear looking 361 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: into the to the workplace environment. Again not condoning in 362 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: any way, but it's like he it's just interesting to 363 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: think about and once we see the reports that came 364 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: out later, like I said, there are some weight to 365 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: some of this stuff. UM ninety three, I mean mclevaine, 366 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: I guess we should say, um in six minutes, killed 367 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: four people, wounded for others, killed himself. He let off 368 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,199 Speaker 1: a hundred rounds of shells in six minutes. That's I 369 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: can't imagine what that must have been. Like. Dude, that 370 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 1: my Donald's guy had an oozy I know, I I 371 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: there are very few people that I hate, but I 372 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: hate that man. I hate him. Yea, it was. He 373 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 1: was a despicable human being. Yeah. So ninety three was 374 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: and I remember this actually, Um, there were two post 375 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: office shootings on the same day. I remember I was 376 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: in college at the time, and it was in the 377 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: middle of the going postal era, all the headlines and 378 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: I remember two of them happened on the same day, 379 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: and it was almost I mean, it was horrific, but 380 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: it was almost like this weird, like you gotta be 381 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: kidding me. Yeah, exactly. Um, And you know this was 382 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: back pre widespread internet even, and it was still like 383 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: a big deal on campus, everyone talking about. Yeah. I 384 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: can imagine, um, because I think it confirmed this general 385 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: suspicion that had been confirmed officially that there's something going 386 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: on and there's something to this going postal thing. Yeah. 387 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: And one of them was not a mail carrier, and 388 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: one of them was a mechanic, right, and another that 389 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: was passed over for a promotion killed two people wounded 390 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: two others. His name is Larry Jason, and this is 391 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: the one who killed the woman who got his job. No, 392 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: he was he went after the woman. Oh no, no, no, 393 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: you're right. I'm sorry. I think he wounded her. I 394 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: don't know if he killed her. Oh yeah, I wounded 395 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: two people, Yeah, including supervisor and the woman. He killed 396 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: two people and then wounded two others. And then the 397 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: other guy was Mark Hillburn in California. He killed his 398 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: mother and her home before going to the post office. 399 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: And he's the one that was looking for a woman 400 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: that he was stalking. She wasn't there, so he killed 401 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,719 Speaker 1: someone else, right, he was. That's actually kind of an 402 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: atypical case that you could you could make a case 403 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily qualify going postal because he wasn't disgruntled by 404 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: being mistreated or whatever. Right, it was a stalking thing, 405 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: which is bad enough. Workplace homicide involving stalking is horrible. Yeah, 406 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 1: as far as going postal, look, it probably doesn't actually qualify. Yeah. 407 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 1: And then two thousand six, it was a pretty interesting one. 408 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: Um because mass shootings very rarely are at the hands 409 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: of a woman. But Jennifer San Marcos in Goalita California, 410 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: which is just outside Santa Barbara. Um, and this was 411 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: in two thousand and six. She killed how many people here? Six? 412 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 1: I believe she killed six coworkers, and notably, all six 413 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,199 Speaker 1: of them were people of color. Yeah, this is in 414 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: two thousand six. She was a very disturbed individual, had 415 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: put out a lot of signs to her employers, including 416 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: having to be carted away literally in a male cart 417 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: in handcuffs from the postal sorting facilities. She worked at 418 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: UM and committed for seventy two hours again involuntarily. UM. 419 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: And she came back years later and killed six people 420 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: on a rampage. She was known to be extraordinarily racist 421 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: and just about just like racist stuff and mentally ill 422 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: to write to herself. Um. So yeah, she she basically 423 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 1: raised a lot of red flags, and I guess they 424 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 1: let her go and then she surprised everybody by coming 425 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: back years later. Yeah. And side note, Um, she applied 426 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: for her permit at one point in her life to 427 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: publish a newspaper called The Racist Times, and I guess 428 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: they were like na, Well, she applied for a business 429 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: license to to to start a company to publish that. Yes, yeah, 430 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: and I guess was rightfully denied. Yeah, I guess I 431 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: don't know. Can you can you as a local government 432 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: say like free speech? Yeah, I would think so, especially 433 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: to local governments, but maybe she just didn't have especially 434 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: in two thousand five. Yeah, who knows. Yeh. By the way, 435 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: I'm gonna apply. One of my goals is to be 436 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: a notary. Oh really, I heard Nick Thune became one. 437 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 1: Oh really, Yeah, that's a very he said. Everything I 438 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: read in two thousand and twenties, going to get a 439 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: receipt sign means newspapers, magazines, receipts. So I guess he's 440 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 1: gonna be he's gonna notarize everything. Yeah. I got something 441 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: notarized the other day. And then I don't think you 442 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: can notorize your own stuff or can. It seems unethical. Yeah. 443 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: So it's not like I want to do it, because 444 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: first of all, I don't need notaries that much. It's 445 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: not like to save time. But I just thought, what 446 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: an interesting, weird, kind of fun thing, you know, Chuck Bryant, podcaster, 447 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: notary public. I think you should get that like wrapped 448 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: around your minivan. Yeah, you know, I'd have to get 449 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: a mini. Step one is getting a minivan. This is 450 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: your list for get a minivan, become a notary, get 451 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: a rap saying as much on your minivan. Have you 452 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: seen that suv here on the parking deck, the Kim 453 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: Brothers karate that's wrapped. That's great because the whole side 454 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 1: of it is this guy getting a stomach kick and 455 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 1: he's just like in silhouette photo. Now it's a full 456 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: on photo. Very it was like the size of the 457 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: whole backseat door and advertise and Kim Brothers kind of 458 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 1: te it's very, very awesome. It worked for him. It's 459 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: pretty good. The rap worked. They're like, that was well spent. 460 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 1: And by the way, I wouldn't charge for my notary 461 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 1: services either. That's the whole It's not like to make extra. 462 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: It's not a side hustle, okay. But the thing is 463 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: is like people don't value stuff that they get for free. 464 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: My notary did it for free. She even came into 465 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: work early to do it. And I was like what, oh, 466 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: she said nothing. I went no seriously, and she said, 467 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: I'm running for judge. She handed me a thing she said, 468 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: just vote for me. Okay, So that's not freek Like, 469 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: that's illegal, that's quid pro quo quid pro quo? Oh, 470 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: you don't even know what that means? Just kidding, Yeah, 471 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: it's Spanish. Right. Um. My daughter was watching she Frozen 472 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: in Spanish the other day and I went to change it. 473 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: She went, no, I want to leave it in Spanish. 474 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 1: She said, s A P, s A P. And then 475 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 1: she came out going. I was like, what are you doing? 476 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: She said, I'm speaking Spanish? So what she speaking Spanish 477 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: and you just didn't understand or was it gibberish? It 478 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: was gibberish, But I said, you know who speaks Spanish, 479 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: said Jerry's daughter. She went really, I said, yeah, And 480 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 1: so is she gonna learn Spanish now to speak to 481 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: Jerry's At some point? She's she's going to I don't 482 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: know when, but I'm gonna get her going. You know 483 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: what I want to do. I want to go on 484 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: some like archaeological trip to the Middle East and then 485 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,239 Speaker 1: we'll overhear some scholars speaking Aramaic and you'll realize that 486 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: that's what I was saying. After she watched Frozen two, 487 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: just like in in uh in Um, what was this 488 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 1: the movie? And not only is it Aramaic, but it's 489 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: like the location of Jimmy Hoffa's body, or right now 490 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: the Aramaic or like the Holy Grail, what was the 491 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: the Exorcist? Oh sure, yeah yeah, or she'sn't maybe yeah, 492 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: like some ancient tongue, should we take a break, had 493 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: taken a break like seven minutes ago? All right, we're 494 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: gonna take a break, and we're gonna go. Uh. It's 495 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: actually a good spot because we're gonna talk about whether 496 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: not there was something to going postal credit to this. 497 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: Let's get serious again, because you would think that after 498 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: these sort of a series of shootings over a period 499 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: of about a decade, even though that final one was 500 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: in two thousand six, it was a bit of an 501 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: outlier that there would be big investigations into what's going 502 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: on at the US Postal Service and did that happen? 503 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: There was, but it was ill conceived. Yeah, let's talk 504 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: about it. Okay. So by this time, when people are saying, 505 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: like going postal it's a thing. Your postal carrier is 506 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: gonna snap and shoot up your whole family or whatever, 507 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: the Postal Service realizes it has a pr problem on 508 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: its hands exactly. So they hire a warmer Secretary of 509 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: Health and Human Services named Joseph California, Joseph Califano Jr. 510 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: And he leads a commission. He chairs a commission to 511 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: look into this going postal thing and to the great 512 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: relief and four million dollars payment that of the Postal Service. 513 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: You mean the U S taxpayer, right, yes, Um, Califano 514 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: and his his UM group come back and say going 515 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: postal is a myth. Yeah. And this was after a 516 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: report by the General Accounting Office that did their own 517 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: investigation and report. Uh. They actually issued six reports on 518 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: poor labor management relations. That's just the g A oh alone. Yeah, 519 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: the toxic work environment there. Um. And so the US 520 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: Postal Service, via our money, like you said, threw down 521 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: four million bucks to try and clean that report up, right, 522 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: And and so the Califano report is what it's called. 523 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: It was pretty clever, and it's in its goals and execution, Yeah, 524 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: for sure. Basically said we're gonna look at the CDC 525 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: stats about workplace deaths and workplace homicides in particular, and 526 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: we're gonna just compare stuff statistically. And they did, and 527 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: they found that not only is it not particularly dangerous 528 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: to work at the post office, but that some other 529 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: professions like, um, working as a convenience store clerk, that 530 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: was the irony that I said to put a pin in. 531 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: Or working as a taxi driver is far, far riskier 532 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: as far as your chances of being killed in a 533 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: homicide go a hundred and fifty times likely. Or if 534 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: you're a taxi driver, then a postal worker eight times 535 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: as much if you're a retail worker. And basically most 536 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: of those are convenience store clerks, like killed during a robbery, yeah, exactly, 537 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: or watch a postal postmaster get killed in your supply rooms. Right, 538 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: either way, not a good day at work. I wonder 539 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: which one that qualified for for the CDC because it 540 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: was in a convenient but it was a postal service employee. 541 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: I think it would be reflexive, meaning it would be 542 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: could have to be at your workplace. I think it 543 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: would qualify. Has having been a both maybe at that 544 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: point I think the s he's like, fine, both, this 545 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: is just too convoluted. Yeah. I picture like a meeting 546 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: with a bunch of people sitting around smoking cigarettes, kind 547 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: of debating this one, and then one guy just sticking 548 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: a big bite of a club sandwich is saying, just 549 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: throw it in both, right, They're like, this is after 550 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: the new Gingrich Bob bar era, So we're not even 551 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: allowed to use the word gun in the report. We 552 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: have to just say homicide by bang bang bang bang. Um. 553 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: So the California Fano report comes out, and again it's 554 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: at the very least pretty convenient reading of statistics by 555 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: the Postal Service. It is, and they basically said they 556 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: had a press release, they held like all sorts of interviews, 557 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,959 Speaker 1: and they had California was respected, you know, like government servant. 558 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: Public servant come out and say no, not only is 559 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: this a bad rap for the post office going postals 560 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: a myth? And to work at the post office, why 561 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: you couldn't find a safer place to work in the 562 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: United States. CDC statistics bear it out here. It is 563 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: in black and white. And the press aid it up 564 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: because the idea that America and American culture was wrong, 565 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: that our intuition had gotten it wrong, and that actually 566 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: it turns out that the whole thing is a myth. 567 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: You and I would eat that up normally, but we 568 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: get the even greater pleasure of saying that the Califano 569 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: report was a myth and that that's where a lot 570 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: of people's reporting stops even today if you look up 571 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: going postal and the idea of working at the post 572 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: office being dangerous, some reporting stops right there. That the 573 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: Califano report proved that it was a myth, and it 574 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: turns out that other people came along and said, this 575 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 1: Califano report is way off, and here's the truth. Going 576 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: Postals actually quite real. It's just that the Califano Commission 577 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: went at it from the wrong direction. Well kind of 578 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: purpose flee, yeah, not kind of purposely, very much purpose 579 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,959 Speaker 1: for four million dollars purposefully. Yeah. Notably the one man 580 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: named Stephen uh Misasako. He's a I don't even know 581 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 1: what accident that wasn't been off a couple of weeks. 582 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: You can tell he is a thirty four year veteran, 583 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 1: or was at the time of the USPS worked, it 584 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: says here nearly every capacity. I think. He had a 585 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: lot of jobs at the Postal Service, and he wrote 586 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: a book called Beyond Going Postal, Chuck. We should also 587 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 1: say that his one of those jobs is very important. 588 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: He was a workplace improvement analyst, and one of the 589 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,280 Speaker 1: things that he was responsible for doing was figuring out 590 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 1: what caused workplace violence at the post office. So he 591 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 1: wasn't just like, you know, just some guy who had 592 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: some ideas. Like this guy had learned firsthand what was 593 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: really going at the post office, and he saw this 594 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: Califano report as a whitewash. Yeah, I mean, he he said, 595 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: And he used their own statistics, but he also used 596 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: his own you know, personal experience u uh, anecdotal from 597 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: his own point of view, and the research he did 598 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: as that workplace improvement analyst, and he was like, you know, um, 599 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,359 Speaker 1: let's look at the stats. The National Institute of Occupational 600 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: Safety and Health, part of the CDC, said that of 601 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: worker on worker homicides in the eighties were postal employees, 602 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: even though they account for three quarters of one percent 603 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: of the civilian workforce. So three quarters of a percent 604 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: of the workforce is responsible for thirteen percent of the 605 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: worker on worker workplace homicides. Yeah, and I think he 606 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: was the I don't know about the first but one 607 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: of the major voices that was saying, Okay, so you 608 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: might get killed more often as a taxi driver, but 609 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 1: not by another taxi driver, right, And the very definition 610 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: of going postal, it's not Mary lou hinter walking in 611 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: and shooting Judd Hirsch in the taxi bay. That would 612 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 1: be going postal exactly, or going taxi. Sure, well, it's 613 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: still be going postal. I guess it applied everywhere, but 614 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 1: it means a worker on worker, usually homicide, almost always 615 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: in the workplace, usually related to work. I can't believe 616 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,839 Speaker 1: that it took someone to write a book to point 617 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: this out and why everyone was going to wait a minute, 618 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: A convenience store employee getting robbed and killed is not 619 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: the same as going in there and shooting up your office. Yeah, 620 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: I know, it's kind of bizarre. I'll bet the alternative 621 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,399 Speaker 1: press was all over it. But it took this time 622 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: to come along and write this book and be like, hey, hey, 623 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: let me spell it out for you. So that was 624 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,919 Speaker 1: one thing was he just basically said, hey, like, yes, 625 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: going postal is real, and here's the stats that prove it. Yeah, 626 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: and here's why. Yeah, that was basically it's a pretty 627 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: toxic environment. They did a certain the Califano report itself 628 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 1: did a survey of twenty postal employees on their culture 629 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:55,799 Speaker 1: and compare that to national averages and other professions. And 630 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 1: this is stuff, like I said, it's in the Califano Report. 631 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: That said, uh, postal workers scored way way lower than 632 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: the national average and all seven areas of positive attitude 633 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: towards management, yeah, including it was a big sticking point, 634 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: including like do you agree with the statement I am 635 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: confident in the fairness and honesty of management? They're like, no, no, 636 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 1: not really. Do you feel like you have autonomy at work? 637 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: That was a big one. No, but everyone, not nobody. 638 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,800 Speaker 1: But they scored thirty nine favorable rating compared to the 639 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: national average of seventy seven, so basically half as much. 640 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 1: YEP said that they felt that they had autonomy or 641 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: any kind of um ability to direct their own work 642 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: or self. Yeah, and it's I wonder why, but it 643 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: seems like the Postal Service, more than other jobs, had 644 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: a culture and it seems like they've tried to correct it. 645 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: But um so, I can't speak to like the current status, 646 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: but when I worked there in the eighties, it seems 647 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: like it had this weird culture of management being militaristic 648 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: and talking down and dressing down employees in front of 649 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: other employees. Yeah, so that was it, I mean, plain 650 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: and simple, like, that was the style. It was a 651 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 1: kind of I saw it described as a paramilitary style. 652 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: And one of the big through lines that I think 653 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 1: made a lot of postal workers and probably still do, 654 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: but definitely did in the eighties and nineties feel helpless, powerless, 655 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: and pushed to the brink was that they were um. 656 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:28,280 Speaker 1: They were subservient to their supervisors, who whose direct orders 657 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: they had to follow. So imagine if imagine first, Jerry's 658 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,720 Speaker 1: our boss. Okay, step two. Imagine if if we said 659 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: what we're gonna do an episode ongoing postal and Jerry said, 660 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 1: I order you not to do that. I don't want 661 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,359 Speaker 1: you guys talking about that. You can't do it well. 662 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 1: And you gotta add you're not doing two podcasts week now, 663 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 1: you're gonna do eight, okay, And and in not listening 664 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 1: to Jerry, we could just lose our jobs just for that. 665 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: She could be like, well, that's it. You didn't listen, 666 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: You're fired. That It was the culture, that was the structure, 667 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 1: and I think still is at the post office. You 668 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: had to follow a direct order from your supervisor, just 669 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 1: like in the military. You had a choice. You either 670 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: listened or you lost your job. That was a big one. Okay. 671 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 1: So that's kind of like this mindset of how you 672 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: are coming into work every day and you're getting this 673 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,879 Speaker 1: every day, multiple times a day from this person. How 674 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,840 Speaker 1: do you not start to kind of hate this person 675 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 1: who keeps pushing you and pushing you. Yeah, and they 676 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 1: were understaffed and overworked. That was a big one, working 677 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 1: like sometimes up to eighty hours a week with Nixon 678 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 1: had charged them with being profitable. Yeah, that's where a 679 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,359 Speaker 1: big turn happened. That's where neoliberalism comes in. Is this 680 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: idea that um so Nixon signed the Postal Reorganization Act 681 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy one and said, by three postal service 682 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: needs to turn a profit. It's no longer going to 683 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 1: be receiving texpayer funding. It needs to make its own money. 684 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,839 Speaker 1: And we're gonna open up competition from private industry, which 685 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,359 Speaker 1: is where FedEx and ups came from. So it went 686 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 1: from being a pretty cushy government job where you know, 687 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 1: you're you had a pension, and you know you were 688 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: taking care of you at a union all this stuff, 689 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 1: to all of a sudden, you're like pitted in competition 690 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: with like private industry, and now like you can be 691 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: fired at the drop of the hat um and you 692 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: have no protections any longer. It happened overnight, and a 693 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,880 Speaker 1: lot of people point to this as the postal service 694 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:31,319 Speaker 1: being among the first industry in the United States economy 695 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:36,800 Speaker 1: that was neoliberalized, that where competition, deregulation, all this stuff 696 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: happened as like a model at the postal service first, 697 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 1: and then it started to spread into the rest of 698 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,359 Speaker 1: industry the rest of the economy to where now it's 699 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 1: just commonplace, it's just capitalism. You don't even call it 700 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,040 Speaker 1: neo liberal liberalism anymore, and it's just normal to us. 701 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: It's just you know, dog eat dog workplace where you know, 702 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 1: if your employer tosses you a few cents for you know, 703 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 1: your four oh one K, you're super grateful. That is 704 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 1: not what it was like before. And the postal service 705 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,319 Speaker 1: was the first group to kind of undergo this transformation. 706 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 1: And so some people say, well, they're the first ones 707 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: who had workplace shootings, And if you follow it, the 708 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 1: workplace shooting started to get more and more prevalent as 709 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 1: more and more of the economy was liberalized, um so 710 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 1: much so that in the eighties, workplace shootings tripled by 711 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,560 Speaker 1: the by the end of the decade, And they say, well, 712 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 1: it was because of this neoliberal um revolution that came 713 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:33,399 Speaker 1: in and just upended that safety net to where if 714 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: you didn't produce produced produce, you could be tossed out 715 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: on the street and nobody be held accountable for that. 716 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 1: Some people, some people don't handle that very well, and 717 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,960 Speaker 1: they can snap and come in and shoot up their workplace. 718 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: And that's what some people, UM explain the going postal 719 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 1: as right. And you combine that with UH incidents of 720 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,560 Speaker 1: mental illness and the gun culture in this country, and 721 00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 1: this is where we are. UM. Another thing that was 722 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,720 Speaker 1: going on at the post office was or the postal service, 723 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 1: was that there was not much of a There was 724 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,800 Speaker 1: no way to if you had an issue, to really 725 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:14,240 Speaker 1: fix it. UM. Their grievance process was just ridiculous. UM. 726 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 1: As of April two thousand and this is when the 727 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,880 Speaker 1: Californa report was released. UM, you would have to go 728 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:21,279 Speaker 1: to an art. You could file a grievance and go 729 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,880 Speaker 1: to an art and they would provide arbitration. But as 730 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: of April two thousand, there were a hundred and twenty 731 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:31,360 Speaker 1: six thousand grievances awaiting arbitration, which was one grievance for 732 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: every seven workers. One out of seven had it filed 733 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,360 Speaker 1: an official grievance. And that's not just like I'm unhappy 734 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,439 Speaker 1: and I'm complaining to my you know, spouse at home. 735 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: There's an official filed grievance. And from what I understand, 736 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 1: to file in official grievance was a big deal because 737 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: the um your managers could retaliate against you with impunity 738 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,279 Speaker 1: and like harass you out of your job. Basically, yeah, 739 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,399 Speaker 1: well it's what we see now and for forever before 740 00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:03,239 Speaker 1: this with filing aggrievance on like sexual harassment. It's like 741 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,359 Speaker 1: you're you're probably on the way out the door if 742 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,799 Speaker 1: that happened. I mean things are changing a little bit now, 743 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:13,240 Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, uh so since two thousand six, Um, 744 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,799 Speaker 1: this has really dropped off. Um, I think only for 745 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 1: incidents since two thousand thirteen, and two of those or 746 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,360 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, three of the four we're at, uh like 747 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:29,359 Speaker 1: a FedEx or ups. But I guess going FedEx isn't 748 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 1: really catchy. Going postal, going postal is and now you 749 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,439 Speaker 1: can go postal let your local going postal franchise where 750 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 1: you can pick up your mail. It's amazing and relative security. 751 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,840 Speaker 1: It's so bizarre. It is what a weird world in country. 752 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: It's what's weird to me is like you you want 753 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: this to be wrapped up somehow and it's not. It's 754 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 1: just kind of ongoing. But it's just turned into something else. Yeah, 755 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,279 Speaker 1: spread it's weird. Uh, well, if you want them, we're 756 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 1: about going Postal. You can look that up on the 757 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,799 Speaker 1: internet see where you come up with um. And we 758 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,480 Speaker 1: are aware of the game Postal. I don't know if 759 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 1: we mentioned it or not. We didn't. It's a video game, yea. 760 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:15,879 Speaker 1: How do you how do you get away with making 761 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 1: a game like that? I think they really enjoyed the 762 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 1: shock value of it. You think it got The second 763 00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:27,480 Speaker 1: one got banned in New Zealand and Australia. I read interesting. Okay, uh, 764 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:32,759 Speaker 1: I think long ago. It's time for listener man, I'm 765 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,120 Speaker 1: gonna call this a safe cracking. We got. We got 766 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:39,080 Speaker 1: a lot of good uh remarks about safe cracking, including 767 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:40,680 Speaker 1: one guy that said we did the best job of 768 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,399 Speaker 1: explaining how locks work. And that's I was like, really, yeah, 769 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,600 Speaker 1: did you listen to the same episode that we've talked about. 770 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,440 Speaker 1: That was high praise. It wasn't praising. Hey, guys, just 771 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,239 Speaker 1: listen to the safe cracking. Great work I am co 772 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:57,400 Speaker 1: host of Heist podcast about the famous heist from history 773 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,040 Speaker 1: plug Plug. I thought you did a solid inform a 774 00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,960 Speaker 1: piece on safe cracking. A couple of things here, Chuck 775 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 1: was actually correct. Some safe crackers do use a seed 776 00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:10,320 Speaker 1: line torches. For example, the mysterious expert Australian safe cracker 777 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:16,719 Speaker 1: known as Mr X. Wasn't that from Arrested Development? Oh? 778 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,239 Speaker 1: Was it? Mr? I watched a few of those the 779 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:24,319 Speaker 1: other night too, Such a great show. Uh. It used 780 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:26,719 Speaker 1: Mr X using a seed line torch to cut a 781 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,640 Speaker 1: two inch hole into the safe of Carrie Packer, at 782 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,359 Speaker 1: the time, the richest man in Australia, to steal five 783 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:37,439 Speaker 1: and a half million dollars in gold. Uh. Two fun 784 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,160 Speaker 1: facts about the history of safe cracking. The Little Joker 785 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,600 Speaker 1: was a tool used in the early nineteen hundreds. It's 786 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,120 Speaker 1: a tin wheel you could place behind the combination dial 787 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,759 Speaker 1: of a safe and when the bank manager would enter 788 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 1: the combination to the vault each day, it would record 789 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 1: the combination be a little notches on the tin required 790 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,200 Speaker 1: a robber to break into the bank twice though wants 791 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,040 Speaker 1: to plan it and wants to retrieve it. But the 792 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,200 Speaker 1: upside is you could pull out the little joker into 793 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,719 Speaker 1: the combination and walk right into the vault. But you 794 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,080 Speaker 1: double your exposure. Yeah, but that sounds like a pretty 795 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:12,680 Speaker 1: good way to do it if you're going with double 796 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,759 Speaker 1: your exposure. By the way, that's safe. I bought it, 797 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,520 Speaker 1: came and Emily was like, we really need a different 798 00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,759 Speaker 1: kind of safe. Really. It's like really, She's like, yeah, 799 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:26,560 Speaker 1: so now I got this stupid heavy box that I'm 800 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,560 Speaker 1: not quite sure what to do with him. Maybe I'll 801 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,400 Speaker 1: try and sell him in craigslistter something. Do you remember 802 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:35,320 Speaker 1: the combo? Uh? I don't. I haven't said it and 803 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,640 Speaker 1: it took and it's it is a key mainly you're 804 00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,480 Speaker 1: also you can sell it on craigs. Have some weirdos 805 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,320 Speaker 1: come over to your house and buy a safe. You 806 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,759 Speaker 1: can maybe notorize something for the mother. They make a 807 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,360 Speaker 1: podcast out of this. I think this is begging for it. 808 00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:53,279 Speaker 1: And then another fun fact. Baron Max Shinburne was a 809 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,480 Speaker 1: bank robber and machinists who took a job at the 810 00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,800 Speaker 1: Lily Safe Company, at the time, the biggest safe company 811 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 1: in the US during the late eighteen hundreds. He worked 812 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,920 Speaker 1: there for a year. Not only did he learn everything 813 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,760 Speaker 1: about how the safes work. He also snuck little jokers 814 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,319 Speaker 1: into saves before they were shipped out. And then uh, 815 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,880 Speaker 1: when he quit, he and his crew traveled to the 816 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:13,880 Speaker 1: s and broke into all these safes he had put 817 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,640 Speaker 1: the back doors into. They broke into so many Lily 818 00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,400 Speaker 1: Safes that some say Max and his crew were single 819 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:23,720 Speaker 1: handedly responsible for putting Lily Safe Company out of business. Wow, 820 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,880 Speaker 1: he said. All of us at the Heist Podcast are 821 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,120 Speaker 1: massive fans, and that is from co host Matt Unsworth. Matt, 822 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:32,879 Speaker 1: thank you so much for that. I think you gave 823 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,080 Speaker 1: us so much information. There's no need for anybody to 824 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,359 Speaker 1: go listen to the Heist and podcast. No, I want 825 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,080 Speaker 1: to check yourself in the foot. Yeah, it sounds like 826 00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,120 Speaker 1: a pretty great podcast a good heist movie, so maybe 827 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:42,520 Speaker 1: I'll like a good high Spot. I feel like a 828 00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:46,040 Speaker 1: good heist movie. You're gonna love a good heist podcast, 829 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,759 Speaker 1: I think so. Well. Thank you for writing in for that. 830 00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,200 Speaker 1: That was pretty great. Um let's see if you want 831 00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:53,560 Speaker 1: to get in touch with us to let us know 832 00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,000 Speaker 1: about your awesome podcast, we want to hear about it. 833 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,040 Speaker 1: You can go on the Stuff you Should Know dot 834 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,879 Speaker 1: com follow our social links there. I believe they're still there, 835 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,320 Speaker 1: uh and you can send us an email to Stuff 836 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:09,840 Speaker 1: podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know 837 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,360 Speaker 1: is a production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For 838 00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,080 Speaker 1: more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 839 00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,800 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 840 00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:21,000 Speaker 1: H