Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive
Speaker 1: from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York
Speaker 1: and ever though in San Francisco.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech coming up.
Speaker 3: Beijing urges local companies to avoid using Nvidia's H twenty processors.
Speaker 4: Plas e Lo Musk accuses Apple of favoring Open Ai
Speaker 4: above other AI companies in.
Speaker 3: Its app store and stable coin issue a Circle's revenue
Speaker 3: jump fifty three percent just two months after a splashy
Speaker 3: public debut.
Speaker 2: We'll discuss with the CEO.
Speaker 4: First, we return to the public markets, not just Circle.
Speaker 5: But the broader indices. They're at record.
Speaker 4: Highs, the Nasdaq one hundred, the NASDAK, the S and
Speaker 4: P five hundred.
Speaker 5: We're up six.
Speaker 4: It's been volatile trade as we digest the CPI number.
Speaker 4: All importantly consumer price inflation coming in where the market anticipated.
Speaker 4: It looks as if the market thinks still the Fed
Speaker 4: has room to cut ed. But you are looking once
Speaker 4: again at the semiconductor story.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Nvidia and AMD are off session lows. What happened
Speaker 3: this morning was the Information reported that China's Internet regulator
Speaker 3: had demanded that specific companies including Ali, Barba and ten
Speaker 3: Cent cancel orders for H twenty. There's a lot to
Speaker 3: unpack there, because, in particular, it is different from.
Speaker 2: What Bloomberg reported.
Speaker 3: Bloomberg reported that Chinese authorities had urged various Chinese entities
Speaker 3: to hold off on ordering the technology.
Speaker 2: There's a difference of severity.
Speaker 3: They're hot on the heels of a big story twenty
Speaker 3: four hours ago where the President cut a deal with
Speaker 3: Nvidia ANDAMD to do a revenue split on a accelerator
Speaker 3: sales in China.
Speaker 2: Let's get out to DC Carriac.
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's get that White House perspective. Josh Wingrove is
Speaker 4: in the bowels of the White House as we speak,
Speaker 4: and we thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2: Josh.
Speaker 4: Just what do you think the Teta tet means here
Speaker 4: for the White House to see China's response in terms
Speaker 4: of pushing back against age twenties.
Speaker 6: Yeah, thank you for having me. This is the glamour
Speaker 6: of the press tows here at the White House. So
Speaker 6: just in case you think it's it's all sunshine and
Speaker 6: lollipop's down here, you know, we're we're in it. We're
Speaker 6: in it, We're surviving. This is sort of I guess,
Speaker 6: a tightening of the screws, and the sort of back
Speaker 6: and forth between them, right, this question of will the
Speaker 6: h twenties go at all? And then the report that
Speaker 6: prom saying he asked for a twenty percent cut and
Speaker 6: then Nvidian him settle at fifteen percent. And now that's
Speaker 6: China saying, well, maybe we don't want those ships in
Speaker 6: the first place. And you know, there's a few questions
Speaker 6: swirling here. One of those is will the administration try
Speaker 6: to do this on other products, whether chips or otherwise,
Speaker 6: try to you know, leverage export controls for new government revenues.
Speaker 6: It's unclear. They've been silent about it. Sure scene like
Speaker 6: this is the model that Trump would like, So you know,
Speaker 6: this sort of seems like it would be on the
Speaker 6: table for things that, you know, where the working market
Speaker 6: would bear it. Another one is, of course, whether companies
Speaker 6: do actually heed what we're reporting, is the warning from
Speaker 6: China or the request I guess from China to avoid
Speaker 6: using these ships. Is that the big question is what
Speaker 6: would ultimately the demand fall to if Chinese demand were
Speaker 6: to fall on this. And then there's a question of, well,
Speaker 6: what about the other chips? Right, Trump mused about even
Speaker 6: selling more advanced chips, but a peared down version of them.
Speaker 6: No one really knows what that would look like. Anyway,
Speaker 6: might be open to that, again, it would seem with
Speaker 6: some sort of cut. But a lot of analysts have said, well,
Speaker 6: if you're just charging you know, premiums to send even
Speaker 6: more advanced stuff to other nations, I mean that opens
Speaker 6: the door to all kinds of things, including like, you know,
Speaker 6: military sales or what have you. And so we're really
Speaker 6: an uncharted territory here right now in a lot of
Speaker 6: ways on this. But the bottom line is Trump likes
Speaker 6: the idea of these chips moving, in part because he's
Speaker 6: calling them obsolete. Of course they're not quite obsolete, but
Speaker 6: it's so long as the US government is getting a cut.
Speaker 7: S in Prince.
Speaker 6: We don't know who actually is getting a cut. We
Speaker 6: don't know if there's gone to general revenue or if
Speaker 6: the Commerce Department was steered this summer.
Speaker 7: It's all so unclear.
Speaker 3: I think what the President was alluding to was Jensen
Speaker 3: one coming to a meeting with him to talk about
Speaker 3: a lower power version of Blackwell, which the market has
Speaker 3: speculated is called B thirty, and Nvidia has never said
Speaker 3: anything about the analyst community looked at this Chinese reaction
Speaker 3: and said, it's a tactic in the broader US trade negotiations.
Speaker 3: You've had a busy twenty four hours because Intel CEO
Speaker 3: Bhutan also came to see the president.
Speaker 2: What's the latest there, Yeah, they.
Speaker 6: Had their meeting here yesterday. Trump sometimes calls in reporters
Speaker 6: to these meetings that didn't happen yesterday. You know, there's
Speaker 6: been a lot of to and fro between them of
Speaker 6: whether that is sort of a soured relationship and whether
Speaker 6: some would put pressure for a swap of leadership there.
Speaker 6: They've been sort of positive signs out of it. Trump
Speaker 6: saying that they had a good meeting is sort of
Speaker 6: teeing up future meetings with his cabinet, and so the
Speaker 6: pressure seems to be off a little bit on that
Speaker 6: one for now. But we all know the President can
Speaker 6: be mercurial on these things, and so it's sort of
Speaker 6: a time will tell situation. There's a briefing here in
Speaker 6: a couple of hours. We make it a little more
Speaker 6: detail on what they spoke of in that meeting. Trump
Speaker 6: has been taking sort of a lot a lot of these,
Speaker 6: but his focus seems to be elsewhere. Today he's teeing
Speaker 6: off on Goldman and threatening to sue J Powell.
Speaker 7: So it's a big day.
Speaker 6: Here at Bluemberg, you know, for when it comes to
Speaker 6: the light of stuff. But right now I think it
Speaker 6: seems like they're out of the woods a little bit.
Speaker 7: If you're Intel Josh.
Speaker 4: Wing Grove, we thank you for the perspective, at least
Speaker 4: on the tech executives. Let's deep dive a little bit
Speaker 4: more with an investor take on the global chip sector.
Speaker 4: Scott Landers here in the studio Horizon Investment cio.
Speaker 5: How do you navigate.
Speaker 4: The president's impact on certain companies, whether it's about them
Speaker 4: doing business or who leaves their businesses?
Speaker 8: Well, I mean this is the question of the day today,
Speaker 8: at least having to do with Trump, and I think
Speaker 8: currently what we have to understand is that Trump at
Speaker 8: his heart is a commercial guy. And so you know,
Speaker 8: what we're what we're trying to figure out is like
Speaker 8: what are the rules of the game that are acceptable
Speaker 8: to him in order to actually run our.
Speaker 7: Businesses and in order to in order to sort of
Speaker 7: move forward.
Speaker 8: And so I think sort of the discovery process of
Speaker 8: figuring out, like what are the deals that are acceptable
Speaker 8: to him in terms of like what do we have
Speaker 8: to give in order to let him sort of leave
Speaker 8: us alone to someone to actually run our businesses. You know,
Speaker 8: that discovery process, I think is what the economy is
Speaker 8: really and here it's specifically the chip makers are really
Speaker 8: sort of going through right now, and I think they're
Speaker 8: getting to a place that they understand the rules of
Speaker 8: the game. So that's actually an acceptable landing spot, I think.
Speaker 4: But the game of Ping Pong, for the likes of
Speaker 4: Lisa Su and indeed of Jenson Wang, has been hard
Speaker 4: when it's accessing China, and already maybe we see the
Speaker 4: ramifications of that pullback of their pair down chips. The
Speaker 4: fact that China is saying we don't even want them,
Speaker 4: is that a concern for you? The lack of access,
Speaker 4: the lack of demand potentially the longer term, so sophisticated
Speaker 4: chips from China.
Speaker 2: Look, I think it has to be.
Speaker 8: And so because you know, this is like one of,
Speaker 8: if not the largest chip market in the world, that
Speaker 8: they're having to sort of jump through hoops in order
Speaker 8: to actually build access and cut special deals in orders
Speaker 8: in order to build access, and so that's you know,
Speaker 8: again once we can finally understand what the rules of
Speaker 8: the game are going to end up being for how
Speaker 8: do we sell chips into this very large Chinese market,
Speaker 8: the better off we're going to be. But in the meantime,
Speaker 8: these CEOs are having to go around and try to
Speaker 8: try to cut these deals and try to understand you know,
Speaker 8: what is it that I'd actually need to do outside
Speaker 8: of just running my business and outside of doing all
Speaker 8: the innovation that I have to do in order to
Speaker 8: make good chips. Okay, what do I have to do
Speaker 8: on the political front to actually access the second largest
Speaker 8: ship market in the world.
Speaker 3: Scott from the CIO's perspective, the president of the United
Speaker 3: States cutting an ad hoc deal where they get a
Speaker 3: share of revenue in exchange for an export license. Did
Speaker 3: you see that coming? And do you expect it to
Speaker 3: be replicated to other parts of the technology industry and
Speaker 3: how do you model for it?
Speaker 8: Well that I'm not sure that you do really model
Speaker 8: for this. I think I think we're in a more
Speaker 8: of a read and react situation with Trump and that's
Speaker 8: and that's franctly how you do have to deal with
Speaker 8: Trump on some of these policies.
Speaker 2: I mean it is.
Speaker 8: It is not a forecasting exercise, is a read and
Speaker 8: react exercise, and so you know that that that you
Speaker 8: know that I think that's just how we have to
Speaker 8: sort of think about it.
Speaker 3: Scott, What does read and react exercise look like at
Speaker 3: Horizon Investments? What did it like this morning in the
Speaker 3: last twenty four hours?
Speaker 8: Well, I mean, I think it means to some extent
Speaker 8: like figuring out are the things that we're facing in
Speaker 8: terms of some of these some of these hurdles that
Speaker 8: are that are new as of you know, the last
Speaker 8: twenty four hours, are these really game changes for some
Speaker 8: of the more in the medium and the longer term
Speaker 8: themes that we think are going to really be important
Speaker 8: in terms of what's what's driving some of these names
Speaker 8: and what's what's driving some of the some of this
Speaker 8: productivity shifts, we don't think they are. And again I think,
Speaker 8: you know, I think because we understand that he's a
Speaker 8: commercial guy, and he wants to cut deals like he
Speaker 8: wants deals to get done.
Speaker 7: He doesn't want deals not to get done.
Speaker 2: He wants deals to get done.
Speaker 8: And so if that if that is sort of your
Speaker 8: starting place, and these deals are somewhat acceptable, and we
Speaker 8: understand what what they're going to look like. It doesn't
Speaker 8: really change the medium term look is this is the
Speaker 8: most important technology in a generation, and you've got to
Speaker 8: be on board with it.
Speaker 4: I'll jump in here and just think about you've got
Speaker 4: to be on board.
Speaker 5: You've got to read and react.
Speaker 4: Does this change the ultimate tailwinds of generative AI from
Speaker 4: your perspective for names at AMD, for names like nin
Speaker 4: Video More broadly, the valuations that we've garnered have been
Speaker 4: a global opportunity. But if we cut off China off,
Speaker 4: China moves away and they want to go domestic, does
Speaker 4: that impact your desire to get into these names?
Speaker 8: It does on the margin, I'm sure. I mean, I
Speaker 8: don't know that it has to. It sort of has to.
Speaker 8: It has to on the margin, But it doesn't really
Speaker 8: change the long term story. We haven't seen anything today
Speaker 8: or the new cycle the last twenty four hours out
Speaker 8: of some of these actions that really change what we
Speaker 8: think about about that medium term and about some of
Speaker 8: these access issues. Is it going to make it more expensive, Yes,
Speaker 8: to make it more complicated, of course, But it doesn't
Speaker 8: really change some of the more fundamental narrative in terms
Speaker 8: of do we want to be in these names, Absolutely.
Speaker 7: We do.
Speaker 5: Do you want to be an Intel?
Speaker 8: Intel's a little bit a little more complicated because we
Speaker 8: don't know that they've got leadership in place that can
Speaker 8: get them to that next stage and get them into
Speaker 8: the right types of chips. It's not just can you
Speaker 8: produce chips? Can you produce the right types? And that's
Speaker 8: that's the big question overring Intel right now.
Speaker 3: God, can we go a little deeper on that? I
Speaker 3: guess what you're hinting at is that lit Bhutan's visit
Speaker 3: to the White House doesn't necessarily solve the tension that's
Speaker 3: they're based on the President's post last week.
Speaker 8: Well, look, Trump doesn't like to be to be wrong.
Speaker 8: It doesn't like to admit and admit that he's wrong.
Speaker 8: And so if if he calls for somebody to be fired,
Speaker 8: and it's it's a pretty high hurdle to get him
Speaker 8: to back off of something like that.
Speaker 7: But I'm not saying it's impossible.
Speaker 8: But but but in terms of you know, the the
Speaker 8: future leadership an Intel, it would be a lot easier
Speaker 8: for Intel to h to make a change like that
Speaker 8: rather than to try to sort of fight against the stream,
Speaker 8: you know, and sort of against the river. That is
Speaker 8: that is the Trump truth post, and so that you
Speaker 8: know that that you know that being said, I don't
Speaker 8: know what they end up doing, but but it does
Speaker 8: make things, you know, infinitely more complicated in an already
Speaker 8: infinitely complicated situation for Intel from a corporate structuring standpoint
Speaker 8: or from an innovation standpoint.
Speaker 7: That's the Martians. The market is already obviously questioning.
Speaker 3: Scott Ladanam of Horizon Investments, Thank you very much. Now
Speaker 3: coming up on Bloomberg Tech, Nancy Tengla joins to talk
Speaker 3: to some more on Nvidia on China, but also Apple
Speaker 3: now in the crosshairs of Elon Musk an Xai.
Speaker 2: That's coming up next. This is Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 3: Elon Musk lashed out against Apple's app store practices in
Speaker 3: a post late on Monday, accusing the iPhone maker of
Speaker 3: favoring open Ai, saying Apple makes it impossible for anyone
Speaker 3: other than open Ai to reach the top of the
Speaker 3: app store charts. Bloombo's Kirkwagner joins us now for more.
Speaker 3: In fact, it was several posts on x throughout the
Speaker 3: time I went to bed last night here in London
Speaker 3: and the time I woke up in aggregate. What's at
Speaker 3: the core of Musk's complaint.
Speaker 9: Yeah, he is claiming antitrust behavior by Apple, saying that
Speaker 9: the company, is you point out ed, is favoring open Ai.
Speaker 9: It's putting open Ai in more prominent positions on the
Speaker 9: App Store, you know, artificially in his mind, putting them
Speaker 9: higher on rankings lists. Now, of course, some of those
Speaker 9: rankings lists are editorially curated by Apple employees.
Speaker 2: That's been the case for.
Speaker 9: Years, and it's always been a challenge for developers to
Speaker 9: try and get onto those lists, to try and get
Speaker 9: that sort of publicity that way. But again, a lot
Speaker 9: of this is also just based on rankings which apps
Speaker 9: are downloaded the most frequently, and in some cases open
Speaker 9: ai and chat gybtr are the top of those lists.
Speaker 4: And you use X's own community notes and they point
Speaker 4: out that it hasn't always been open Ai and the
Speaker 4: top of the pile when it comes to other generative
Speaker 4: AI chatbots. Others have eclipsed it, even since the open
Speaker 4: Ai and Apple deal cut.
Speaker 5: But also some Almand weighed in a little bit too.
Speaker 7: He did he.
Speaker 9: Had some sharp words for elon Musk, pointing out that
Speaker 9: it was sort of rich for Elon Musk to complain
Speaker 9: about this when, in Sam Altman's words, you know, he's
Speaker 9: putting his thumb on the scale on the X algorithm, right,
Speaker 9: He's changing the things that you can see on X
Speaker 9: to reflect Elon's view of the world or Elon's favorite topics.
Speaker 9: And so that was sort of the throwback that Altman
Speaker 9: had for Musk there, and the two of them obviously
Speaker 9: have a long history Caroline, as we've talked.
Speaker 2: About repeatedly on the show.
Speaker 9: So for those who have followed, this is sort of
Speaker 9: just the latest in that saga.
Speaker 3: So Apple has not responded to requests for comment on this,
Speaker 3: but like you, I went through all the documents available
Speaker 3: when Apple explains the methodology behind the rankings, but Elon
Speaker 3: Musk is also complaining that open ai and Apple were
Speaker 3: technology partners and for that reason they have a bias
Speaker 3: toward them.
Speaker 2: Can you explain that that. Yeah, So last year.
Speaker 9: At WWDC, Apple announced a partnership with chat GPT that
Speaker 9: it was going to integrate some of open AI's technology
Speaker 9: into the iPhone, And so he's claiming, you know, and
Speaker 9: this is the reason in Elon Musk's mind that open
Speaker 9: ai is sort of getting this favorable treatment. Now, I
Speaker 9: have to point out that Elon Musk is not the
Speaker 9: first person to kind of go after Apple over the
Speaker 9: years for making things difficult on developers they might compete with. Right,
Speaker 9: Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg are the top of the list
Speaker 9: in terms of being in the drum about Apple being
Speaker 9: anti competitive over the last several years with the app
Speaker 9: store fees that they take and other things. So Elon
Speaker 9: Musk is not alone and sort of his view on
Speaker 9: this now, whether that view is simply formed in any
Speaker 9: actual real fact or just opinion, I think is.
Speaker 7: The challenge here.
Speaker 9: And clearly he's very upset with open AI's relationship right
Speaker 9: now with Apple.
Speaker 3: Okay, bluebos Kurt Wagner, And as Kurt said, Elon Musk
Speaker 3: has threatened Apple with litigation in the antitrust context. Will
Speaker 3: bring more as we get it. Let's bring in Apple
Speaker 3: and Tesla investor to talk a bit more about it.
Speaker 3: Nancy Tengler, CEO and CIO for Laffatengler Investments. And you know,
Speaker 3: like you have exposure to Apple, I think you've added
Speaker 3: to it recently. You know the Tesla story, but also
Speaker 3: Elon Ink's story really well when it comes to AI,
Speaker 3: how concerned are you about this situation with Elon Musk,
Speaker 3: you know, essentially going off to Apple.
Speaker 10: I ed listen. I think everybody's acting to script.
Speaker 11: So you know, Elon will describe himself as someone who's
Speaker 11: who's programmed for war. This is one way for him
Speaker 11: to gain shelf space, is to raise awareness, to claim
Speaker 11: foul and then hopefully get some concessions from Apple. In
Speaker 11: terms of the effect on Apple, I don't think it's
Speaker 11: going to be long standing. I think there will be
Speaker 11: some sort of behind the scenes handshake.
Speaker 10: But it always matters where you get into these stocks.
Speaker 11: And so we were adding to Tesla at two forty
Speaker 11: during the tariff tantrums. You know, at three thirty three,
Speaker 11: I'm pretty happy with the holdings. And then we added
Speaker 11: to Apple last Tuesday. That was just sheer luck. And
Speaker 11: you know, we picked it off at two hundred and two,
Speaker 11: and we can wait around.
Speaker 10: For things to write size.
Speaker 11: But I don't think this is the end of the
Speaker 11: app store, and I don't think it's going to be
Speaker 11: a big headache. You know, he's filed a lot of
Speaker 11: lawsuits that have gone into the Elon Musk lawsuit black hole,
Speaker 11: so I think we'll get some resolution.
Speaker 5: He kinks Floyd is busy.
Speaker 4: That's for sure, about one point ten percent if you're
Speaker 4: looking at Apple's share price soon.
Speaker 5: No one too worried, Nancy.
Speaker 4: But just love tell a little bit of the AI
Speaker 4: opportunity within Tesla and why you're not adding to it
Speaker 4: at the moment. Because there's been much about made about
Speaker 4: whether they'd invest more broadly in xai itself.
Speaker 5: There's a lot of cross pollination that goes on.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think the.
Speaker 11: Cross pollination would be good. I'd love to see Tesla
Speaker 11: absorb XAI. I use rock religiously, and there's I just
Speaker 11: think it. I just happened to think it's the best solution,
Speaker 11: so you know, I'd love to see more people utilize
Speaker 11: it and see the company continue to go deeper into
Speaker 11: the AI portions of their business and have it benefit
Speaker 11: Tesla's shareholders. We'll see when we get the shareholder vote
Speaker 11: where you know, where the shareholders come down in terms
Speaker 11: of investing further.
Speaker 10: But I like the ecosystem.
Speaker 11: We're building out a strategy that focuses on all these
Speaker 11: new frontier you know, opportunities, quantum nuclear robotics, jen AI,
Speaker 11: and in that we will have front and center.
Speaker 10: One of our largest holdings will be Tesla.
Speaker 3: Nancy I broke the story last week that Elon Musk
Speaker 3: requested that the Dojo project be shut down, and he
Speaker 3: confirmed it on Sunday in a post on X and
Speaker 3: I reported today a lot of that engineering talent's been
Speaker 3: reassigned across their other chip efforts. How central was Dojo
Speaker 3: to your thesis with Tesla? Did you pay attention to
Speaker 3: that one?
Speaker 10: Yeah, and congrats on on the story, ed, Yes, and no.
Speaker 11: I mean it was so so nascent in.
Speaker 10: Its origins that we were watching it.
Speaker 11: We are certainly focused on quantum computing and the elements
Speaker 11: that will drive it, but we didn't we didn't have
Speaker 11: it in our expectations for future earning Scrows. And I
Speaker 11: think that's a lot of what you have to do
Speaker 11: with with.
Speaker 10: Tesla and Elon.
Speaker 11: He's always thinking, trying and then restarting, and so you know,
Speaker 11: we wait to see what's sustainable and where we think
Speaker 11: the direction of the firm is going. And you know,
Speaker 11: Caroline asks why or mentioned we haven't added to it recently,
Speaker 11: I mean we will again.
Speaker 10: It's a pretty it's a pretty significant.
Speaker 11: Holding in our growth strategy not a member of our
Speaker 11: twelve Best Ideas because I can't handle the elon volatility
Speaker 11: and the twelve Best Ideas portfolio.
Speaker 10: But I think I think they'll figure it out.
Speaker 11: They'll either partner as it looks like they're going to,
Speaker 11: or they'll they'll restart.
Speaker 4: I love going back to that frontier fundamental analysis you're
Speaker 4: doing as well, Nancy, when you're looking at the opportunities
Speaker 4: in general to AI, whether it's quantum, some of the
Speaker 4: more forward thinking things and here and now when you
Speaker 4: own a Nvidia and I know you're even exit TAMD,
Speaker 4: but when you're thinking about what the administration means for
Speaker 4: the future business, what China's owned demand for chips means
Speaker 4: the future business, how are you thinking about that story?
Speaker 11: Yeah, this story is a little bit complicated, and you're
Speaker 11: probably going to get the cranky side of me. I
Speaker 11: think the precedent set by an administration that you know
Speaker 11: is pay for playing isn't unseemly at best. I get
Speaker 11: why Jensen made the deal. I would have too, but
Speaker 11: for the President to say at a press conference, you know,
Speaker 11: I told them you're going to have to pay us
Speaker 11: for you pay us something for this that that may
Speaker 11: have gone on behind the scenes. We probably had it
Speaker 11: in the last administration with Meta, but it was different,
Speaker 11: and I don't think it's I just don't think it's
Speaker 11: the way we want to conduct business in the United States.
Speaker 11: That said we had written off China investors had not.
Speaker 11: So very long ago the company took Nvidia, that is,
Speaker 11: took an eight billion dollar charge, and then.
Speaker 10: You know, the Middle East opened up. So I don't
Speaker 10: think this is going to be the death now.
Speaker 11: I think China did exactly what you would have expected.
Speaker 10: Them to do.
Speaker 11: Come out, you know, in response to Jensen saying keep
Speaker 11: China hooked on our products, They're going to come out
Speaker 11: and say, no, we don't, we don't need your product.
Speaker 11: So it'll settle somewhere in the middle, and we'll get
Speaker 11: incremental revenue news and a little hit to Margins.
Speaker 10: Well.
Speaker 3: Very quickly, China responded in some form, how much do
Speaker 3: you think they're trying to protect their own domestic chip names?
Speaker 11: Just very quick I think they are, of course ed,
Speaker 11: and I also think they're trying to get a better
Speaker 11: deal always out of the US, So stay tuned.
Speaker 10: I think we'll end up somewhere again in the middle.
Speaker 3: Nancy Tegler of Lafetenglo Investments giving us your cranky side,
Speaker 3: which we appreciate, thank you very much. Now coming up,
Speaker 3: GM looks to resurrect its autonomous ambitions, that story and
Speaker 3: so much more.
Speaker 2: Next this is Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 4: Time now for Talking tech and first up, GM is
Speaker 4: looking to restart development of new driver's cars now Colling
Speaker 4: to sources, it's looking to lull back ex employees of
Speaker 4: its former autonomous cruise operations. The project is said to
Speaker 4: be focused on autonomous vehicles for personal use, with the
Speaker 4: ultimate goal being a car that can drive with no
Speaker 4: one at the wheels. GitHub CEO Thomas Donker is stepping
Speaker 4: down now the coding platform executive is set to remain
Speaker 4: through the end of the year and will leave to
Speaker 4: become a founder. GitHub, which was acquired by Microsoft back
Speaker 4: in twenty eighteen, will become part of the company's core
Speaker 4: AI team, and ESPN is hoping to lure that customers
Speaker 4: with a new app now. The service costs thirty dollars
Speaker 4: a month and it'll include live games, fantasy sports, highlights,
Speaker 4: original programming look. This marks the first time ESPN's complete
Speaker 4: sports lineup will be available to viewers without cable satellite
Speaker 4: subscription ed.
Speaker 3: All right, coming up circle, CEO Jeremy joins to talk
Speaker 3: about the company's first earnings since going public. Markets reacting
Speaker 3: pretty positively to those results.
Speaker 2: We're gonna have a lot more on that next.
Speaker 3: I still feel like the story of the day is
Speaker 3: one of volatility in those two chip names, and video
Speaker 3: is modestly high in our AMD up eight tens of
Speaker 3: one percent. But there was an information report that basically
Speaker 3: said China has ordered tech company to stop ordering chips
Speaker 3: from those US names, different to Bloomberg saying that regulators
Speaker 3: and authorities had urged those tech companies in China to
Speaker 3: stop placing the orders. The stocks bounced around over the place.
Speaker 3: There's so much newsflow and we work more on it
Speaker 3: throughout this hour. From London this week and also New
Speaker 3: York City. That's what your index level looks like. This
Speaker 3: is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. Markets have
Speaker 3: just closed in Europe and in London where I'm sat,
Speaker 3: and therefore I'm looking at these three names across Europe's
Speaker 3: software names have been under pressure today. The concern for
Speaker 3: these software names is that AR is going to kill software.
Speaker 3: Such an interesting concept. In fact, there is a note
Speaker 3: from RBC Capital Markets and List Matthew Hebberg which says, quote,
Speaker 3: there is from a valuation perspective, death of software due
Speaker 3: to AI. These are companies that in Europe are seeing
Speaker 3: like really strong revenue growth, but the idea is that
Speaker 3: AI elsewhere just renders their software offerings obsolete. It's not
Speaker 3: saying we've talked about much, particularly from this geography Carro,
Speaker 3: but serious declines and in Europe a lot of weakness
Speaker 3: in those software names today. And this is something a
Speaker 3: lot of people have clicked on this Tuesday, which also
Speaker 3: took me a bit by surprise.
Speaker 5: Significant moves.
Speaker 4: Look, and let's pivot back to another stock that's moving
Speaker 4: on the higher side this morning as well. We're focusing
Speaker 4: in on the stable coin network Operator, up six and
Speaker 4: a half percent of this circle. The company reporting second
Speaker 4: quarter revenue jumping fifty three percent, six and fifty.
Speaker 5: Eight million dollars.
Speaker 4: Now it's the issue of stable coins, and it's its
Speaker 4: first earnings release since it went public back in June.
Speaker 4: Circle CEO Jeremy Elaire joins us. Now, Jeremy, just that
Speaker 4: bump and revenue. We know how ultimately you make a
Speaker 4: lot of your money, and that comes from treasuries, it
Speaker 4: comes from other yielding assets there holding versus USDC. What
Speaker 4: about the other revenue growth that you want to see?
Speaker 4: How do you think about that pipeline?
Speaker 7: Well, a couple quick things.
Speaker 12: I think first, you know that bump in revenue is
Speaker 12: driven by growth. We saw a ninety percent year over
Speaker 12: year growth in USDC in circulation on our network, which
Speaker 12: is significant, and that growth is obviously a driver even
Speaker 12: where we see rates decline, that growth is really driving
Speaker 12: our overall top line revenue growth. We're also seeing growth
Speaker 12: in our other revenue and so you know, again as
Speaker 12: you think about Circle and our business, we have our
Speaker 12: stable coin network, we have money that flows on that network,
Speaker 12: and we're adding new services, subscriptions and services fees, transaction
Speaker 12: fees for a wide array of different things. We're building
Speaker 12: an application layer through Circle Payments network. And actually we
Speaker 12: just announced a new blockchain network ARC today and so
Speaker 12: those also grew two hundred and fifty percent year on year.
Speaker 12: And you know, obviously have a slightly different margin profile,
Speaker 12: a higher margin profile. So that actually added a couple
Speaker 12: hundred basis points to our margins, which obviously translated as
Speaker 12: well on the aggregate into you know, our even to
Speaker 12: growth adjusted growth to growth of fifty two percent with
Speaker 12: a fifty percent kind of adjusted EBIT to margin.
Speaker 4: Let's just dive more into the new products into ARC
Speaker 4: that you reference into your payments network. How close the
Speaker 4: competition does it put you in with players like Stripe
Speaker 4: out there already for example, how does it continue to
Speaker 4: make you market neutral when it comes to an infrastructure player.
Speaker 12: Well, when we think about Circle, we think about ourselves
Speaker 12: as an internet platform and network utility company, and we
Speaker 12: want to make sure that we can provide the full
Speaker 12: stack that's needed for financial institutions and leading enterprises around
Speaker 12: the world to take advantage of stable cooin finance and
Speaker 12: ARC as a blockchain network is purpose built for stable
Speaker 12: coin finance. The transaction fees are paid in USDC and
Speaker 12: potentially other stable coins. The network infrastructure is designed around
Speaker 12: what's called deterministic settlement finality. That's key bank regulators want
Speaker 12: to know that transactions and settlement are final. It's a
Speaker 12: key characteristic of a prudential grade of financial infrastructure. So
Speaker 12: we're building this, you know, very much in the you know,
Speaker 12: in the view of what's coming all of these major
Speaker 12: institutions that now want to build on stable coins, really
Speaker 12: making sure that we have the right infrastructure at play,
Speaker 12: but at the same time broad interoperability for our stablecoin network.
Speaker 12: We're interoperable across twenty four different blockchain networks. We're fundamental
Speaker 12: dollar liquidity on those networks, and we're going to continue
Speaker 12: to do that, and in fact, ARC is going to
Speaker 12: become a very powerful way to even greater provide even
Speaker 12: greater support for liquidity and interoperability on these networks.
Speaker 3: Jeremy, there's a lot of interest in the other revenues
Speaker 3: opportunity with you to get a better understanding of the
Speaker 3: cool business. I have the Bloomberg story about your writing
Speaker 3: is report in front of me, and the AI summary
Speaker 3: is the majority of cycles revenue comes from US treasuries
Speaker 3: and other yield bearing instruments that support the value of
Speaker 3: USDC tokens. Just to the uninitiated or the layman, could
Speaker 3: you just explain the basics of that.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 12: So Circle operates the largest regulated stable coin network in
Speaker 12: the world, and that network reaches over six hundred million
Speaker 12: people who can reach in their pocket and access and
Speaker 12: use USDC. There's tens of thousands of products and services
Speaker 12: that are integrated to the network that provide ways for
Speaker 12: people to store and make transactions and payments or investments
Speaker 12: using USDC. So we have this really large network and
Speaker 12: there's demand for these digital dollars, and that those digital dollars,
Speaker 12: you know, are essentially purchased using existing money and then
Speaker 12: issued is digital currency and are in free circulation on
Speaker 12: the Internet. And so that money stock on the network
Speaker 12: that's moving around. And we also noted we saw a
Speaker 12: tremendous growth the amount of transactions on the network, six
Speaker 12: trillion dollars of transactions in Q two and seeing that
Speaker 12: accelerate into Q three as well. So we have this
Speaker 12: very high velocity, high transaction money on the network and
Speaker 12: we monetize that through the reserve returns. And so, you know,
Speaker 12: what we really focused on on this part of the
Speaker 12: business is growing that money stock. And there are a
Speaker 12: lot of different views as to how fast stable pin
Speaker 12: money supply is going to grow. There's an optimistic view
Speaker 12: of a ninety percent kagger for the next five years,
Speaker 12: There's a you know, the lowest view is a twenty
Speaker 12: five percent kager over several years, and so we tend
Speaker 12: to be on the more conservative side when we think
Speaker 12: about that from a kind of outlook perspective. But you know,
Speaker 12: we grew ninety percent year every year. That obviously drives
Speaker 12: top line as well. And year to date we've grown
Speaker 12: forty nine percent as of August tenth, which is very
Speaker 12: strong growth, and that again driving and supporting that top line,
Speaker 12: while we also build out all of these new products
Speaker 12: with new revenue streams in subscriptions and services and in
Speaker 12: transaction fees, and so we're continuing to build those out
Speaker 12: as well.
Speaker 3: You go through going public, you go through your first
Speaker 3: call through as a public company, and the first thing
Speaker 3: the market's going to ask you is about inorganic growth.
Speaker 3: What's your M and a strategy, Jeremy.
Speaker 12: I mean, look, we are a technology company. We're very
Speaker 12: focused on software powered innovation. That's really the heritage, that
Speaker 12: my heritage and the rest, and so virtually everything that
Speaker 12: we've done here has been organic. We love building software
Speaker 12: and software technology, and we have done acquisitions. We've actually
Speaker 12: done three acquisitions this year. One was a product and
Speaker 12: technology that's allowed us to accelerate our entry into the
Speaker 12: bearing token space with us y C.
Speaker 7: We had some big news with that in.
Speaker 12: The quarter as well, and then too, what you know,
Speaker 12: our teams and intellectual property acquisitions, both of which supported
Speaker 12: our efforts to launch ARC. And so where we find
Speaker 12: great intellectual property or technology and great people, we see
Speaker 12: that as a very natural thing to do to kind
Speaker 12: of augment and bring speed and velocity to our product
Speaker 12: development initiatives. But you know, we're not really here to
Speaker 12: like go do huge acquisitions and try and try and
Speaker 12: roll things up.
Speaker 7: That's not really our approach.
Speaker 12: So we'll look at things and of course continue to
Speaker 12: make acquisitions where it makes sense.
Speaker 7: But this is not an m and a play in
Speaker 7: the sense that people.
Speaker 4: Understand Jeremy Anna taking us across the business. We thank
Speaker 4: you Holt on the heels of your earnings a circle CEO. Now,
Speaker 4: we just want to return to some breaking news more
Speaker 4: broadly about financial markets, not just stable coins, but about data,
Speaker 4: in particular labor statistics. Blueme Megg Inter National Economics Policy
Speaker 4: Editor Michael McKee joins us now supporting done by Fox
Speaker 4: about well, the person who's going to be potentially taking
Speaker 4: over labor statistics in the United States and his view
Speaker 4: on how often they should be just break down the.
Speaker 13: News for us, Well, it's kind of a strange situation
Speaker 13: because he'd made these comments before the President announced that
Speaker 13: he was going to nominate him. He did an interview
Speaker 13: with Fox and apparently they didn't run it until now,
Speaker 13: but he said, maybe, given the poor jobs report that
Speaker 13: we had, maybe we should suspend the jobs report each
Speaker 13: month until we can get the numbers fixed. It's the
Speaker 13: president who thinks that the numbers are wrong, not the statisticians,
Speaker 13: and that I'm not sure why you would do that, right,
Speaker 13: because this would mean that Wall Street would have nothing
Speaker 13: to trade on in terms of jobs reports, and I
Speaker 13: would think that would not go over well.
Speaker 2: Michael McKee.
Speaker 3: If you're not sure, then I'm read because I and
Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands rely on you for economic data. The
Speaker 3: jobs print is key to what we do when it
Speaker 3: comes out. Why does the market rely on it so much?
Speaker 13: It's a great signal of what's happening in the economy
Speaker 13: because when people have jobs, they spend money. When people
Speaker 13: are losing jobs, they don't spend money. And if people
Speaker 13: are spending money, then companies hire more people and profits
Speaker 13: go up. So it's sort of the lynchpin indicator that
Speaker 13: the Fed uses, and a lot of people on Wall
Speaker 13: Street use to tell us in general how the economy
Speaker 13: is going. And it's the data are delayed, as we know,
Speaker 13: and they get revised, but it is the best kind
Speaker 13: of numbers that we have on a regular basis, on
Speaker 13: a monthly basis. So the idea of suspending it, I
Speaker 13: think would get no traction at all. I'm not sure
Speaker 13: that the BLS commissioner would have that ability anyway.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm just riffing here a little bit carro
Speaker 3: But you know, in terms of manufacturing data, I've been
Speaker 3: thinking a lot about whether humanoid robots are coming on not.
Speaker 3: Bloomberg's Michael McKee with some interesting news. We have some
Speaker 3: breaking news crossing the Bloomberg terminal. Perplexity says that they've
Speaker 3: made an unsolicited bid to Google today offering thirty four
Speaker 3: point five billion dollars to purchase it's Chrome browser. I'm
Speaker 3: going to repeat that Perplexity has sent says it's sent
Speaker 3: an unsolicited bid to Google this Tuesday, thirty four zero
Speaker 3: point five billion dollars for the Google Chrome browser. That's
Speaker 3: a significant and interesting piece of news. We're going to
Speaker 3: get the shares of Alphabet, the parent of Google, up
Speaker 3: very soon, and we're going to talk to Bloomberg Seth Figureman,
Speaker 3: who's one of our technology and AI editors out in
Speaker 3: New York City. The details with the stock of alphabet
Speaker 3: now up a percentage point, please, Seth.
Speaker 14: Yeah, it's an eyepopping offer. As a point, it's also
Speaker 14: very much a long shot. But there's a lot of
Speaker 14: caveats here. Google has not actually put Chrome up for
Speaker 14: sale far as we know. It's largely in response to
Speaker 14: the US government wanting a judge to order Google to
Speaker 14: sell off Chrome. The judge has not actually put out
Speaker 14: a ruling on that yet. And then on the offer itself,
Speaker 14: Perplexity is offering thirty four point five billion dollars. That's
Speaker 14: nearly double what Perplexity is valued at and far more
Speaker 14: than the more than one billion that Perplexity has raised
Speaker 14: a date. Perplexity is saying that they have investment funds
Speaker 14: that are willing to support this big info. But again,
Speaker 14: this is a long shot offer as of now.
Speaker 4: They've made long shot offers before, whether or not they've
Speaker 4: been as formal as this one. But they threw their
Speaker 4: name in the ring when it came to TikTok I, remember,
Speaker 4: but the US part of TikTok numbers aside.
Speaker 5: The browser bit.
Speaker 4: Well, they've already been building their own browsers, so why
Speaker 4: make this purchase and ultimately, how would it beef up
Speaker 4: their offering and take away from that of Google's.
Speaker 14: Yeah, it's a great question. You know, they have been
Speaker 14: working on a browser called Comet, but it's one thing
Speaker 14: to try to build your own browser from scratch and
Speaker 14: another to acquire a browser that reaches billions of people
Speaker 14: around the world. The idea here seems to be that
Speaker 14: they want to inject their AI agent capabilities into the
Speaker 14: interface that we all use on the web every single
Speaker 14: day and getting in front of far more people. This
Speaker 14: would give them a major headstart on that front. But again,
Speaker 14: this is a lot of money that we don't think
Speaker 14: they currently have.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean, I'm reading the story and you'll
Speaker 3: forgive me, seth, I'm just reading it in real time.
Speaker 3: Perplexity says it's going to invest three billion dollars over
Speaker 3: the next two years in Chrome and Chromium right, which
Speaker 3: is the underlying open source coding that supports a number
Speaker 3: of browsers, and also that they're going to extend a
Speaker 3: substantial offer to Chrome talent. I mean, I'll leave some
Speaker 3: of the details to you. But what do we make
Speaker 3: of that? What else are we reporting?
Speaker 14: Yeah, I mean again, I think they're trying to show
Speaker 14: that there'll be a good steward for a platform that's
Speaker 14: used by billions of people around the world, while continuing
Speaker 14: to move forward with their own venture and injecting AI
Speaker 14: capabilities into key Internet functionality.
Speaker 4: Well, we're expecting that ruling from Judge am it Meta
Speaker 4: in coming days on the rent is that they want
Speaker 4: to see to prevent what it sees as Alphabet and
Speaker 4: Google being some sort of monopoly when it comes to
Speaker 4: search in the United States. Bloomberg Seth Figeman the breakdown
Speaker 4: of perplexities offer for Google Chrome. Let's just return to
Speaker 4: the overarching geopolitical story of US and China right now.
Speaker 4: We've been talking a lot about how China is urging
Speaker 4: it's domestic firms AI firms not to use in Videa's
Speaker 4: H twenty chips. This after the US agreed to revenue
Speaker 4: split for allowing a semi conductors from video from AMD
Speaker 4: to re enter China. Now, Bloomberg Opinion Economist Daily wrote
Speaker 4: about this yesterday, about the decision by the White House
Speaker 4: and also what it would cost the US in terms
Speaker 4: of ANAI advantage.
Speaker 5: The story moves on continually.
Speaker 4: But what's so striking about your story was, Look, if
Speaker 4: there's a fifteen percent cut taken by the US government
Speaker 4: to allow AMD and Vidia to sell into China, the
Speaker 4: winners are in VideA, maybe less.
Speaker 5: So now, but China.
Speaker 4: Why would China clearly seeming to push ahead in terms
Speaker 4: of its own a semi conductor offerings.
Speaker 15: Well, one of the things I used to empty chip
Speaker 15: would allow more quickly as scale, right, I mean, one
Speaker 15: of the things this chip is good at compared to
Speaker 15: what China's capabilities are now is it can do more inference,
Speaker 15: so it can run the applications that AI is built for.
Speaker 15: That's something that we don't think domestically they could catch
Speaker 15: up on for it for a couple of years. And
Speaker 15: so look, this doesn't change China's aggression in trying to
Speaker 15: build its own chips as quickly as possible, But what
Speaker 15: it does do is kind of feel the interim there
Speaker 15: to allow them to start integrating AI into all aspects
Speaker 15: of Chinese life and therefore, you know, continue to make
Speaker 15: it a global player. Question is and where the story
Speaker 15: has moved on since I wrote those words. Is China
Speaker 15: now going to look to sort of almost stop tavrom
Speaker 15: happening in order to protect this domestic supply? How is
Speaker 15: it going to balance trying to make sure AI is
Speaker 15: used as often as much as it can in China
Speaker 15: whilst making sure that it's homegrown effort is still built
Speaker 15: upon us as quickly as possible.
Speaker 3: So Dave on your piece, and I appreciate a lot
Speaker 3: actually in twenty four hours. Just take mine and Carrow's
Speaker 3: word for it. It's been a nightmare doing this for
Speaker 3: the last twenty four hours. But you actually your final
Speaker 3: point is that there are two winners here in Vidia
Speaker 3: and China. But you don't say the United States is
Speaker 3: a winner. If you get what I mean. You know,
Speaker 3: Trump is supposed to be the deal maker. But your
Speaker 3: conclusion seems to be actually good deal for Nvidia, but
Speaker 3: America in aggregate, that's what I want to get from you.
Speaker 15: I mean, look, if the concern over exporting these chips
Speaker 15: existed this time last week, I don't think the fifteen
Speaker 15: percent revenue cut changes that calculation. It doesn't seem like
Speaker 15: a good enough change to warrant what's essentially quite a
Speaker 15: dramatic change in national security policy. That would be my
Speaker 15: sort of overarching question here on why the US would
Speaker 15: go forward with this. I guess one of the dynamics
Speaker 15: that we're just starting to learn now is what this
Speaker 15: might mean for other parts of the trade deal between
Speaker 15: the US and China. We're hearing about rare earth metals
Speaker 15: being at being a concern, and there's other types of
Speaker 15: chips that could be use his leverages as well. I mean, look,
Speaker 15: this is becoming a hugely complex piece of negotiation between
Speaker 15: the two countries. I worry that China has a position
Speaker 15: now of sort of saying to in Video, well, look,
Speaker 15: you might have got your permission from your masters over
Speaker 15: there in the US, but we also hold many cards
Speaker 15: as well, and unless we get more of what we
Speaker 15: want in these trade deals, then we may not allow
Speaker 15: the sale of these chips in the country. And look
Speaker 15: for in video, China is a very very important part
Speaker 15: of his business. It's billions of dollars revenue could be
Speaker 15: billions of dollars more. They had to write off billions
Speaker 15: of dollars when the restrictions on the age twenty were
Speaker 15: going to put in place. So I think it really
Speaker 15: matters to in Vidia to please both countries, and that
Speaker 15: to me just seems incredibly difficult at this point.
Speaker 3: Bloomberg Opinions, davely did, good job, Thank you very much.
Speaker 3: Let's get more on what we can expect from China's
Speaker 3: policy response here. Amanda Shaw is a director in the
Speaker 3: China practice of the Raisor Group Geopolitical Risk consulting firm,
Speaker 3: and Dave raises a point of chronology. Back when we
Speaker 3: were stopping the flow of chips to China, it was
Speaker 3: America's national concerity concern about how China would use those
Speaker 3: chips in the military context. The development twenty four hours
Speaker 3: later after the President cut that deal is China saying
Speaker 3: we have national security concerns and we want to champion
Speaker 3: our own domestic names. Who has the upper hand in
Speaker 3: this negotiation, Well, I.
Speaker 16: Think that for China a lot of this signaling that
Speaker 16: it has been engaged in is largely performative. We know
Speaker 16: that the Chinese continue to lack the capabilities that the
Speaker 16: video Age twenty chips offer, and so to some degree
Speaker 16: there will be strong demand from the Chinese for the
Speaker 16: use of the Age twenty chips.
Speaker 10: But of course, as was.
Speaker 16: Pointed out previously, the Chinese, of course, do want to
Speaker 16: continue to strengthen its domestic chips building capacity, and you know,
Speaker 16: included in that is really providing support to national champions
Speaker 16: like Huawei. But on the other hand, when we think
Speaker 16: about where China is headed, China also wants to be
Speaker 16: supporting national champions like deep Seek, and of course deep
Speaker 16: Seek deep Seek's.
Speaker 10: AI models are run on in Nvidia chips.
Speaker 16: So I think for the Chinese there are boat sort
Speaker 16: of economic considerations, but there's also security ones. So I
Speaker 16: don't see the Chinese outright banning the use or purchase
Speaker 16: of H twenty chips in the near term.
Speaker 4: Interesting that the information we reported that there was a
Speaker 4: sort of full on stop being asked for the likes
Speaker 4: of byte Dance or the likes of ten Cent.
Speaker 5: But for now you're thinking that there.
Speaker 4: Wouldn't be some sort of ban because it'd invocate the
Speaker 4: users of chips. But what's so interesting is Cambra con
Speaker 4: Technologies and Huawei, of course, we have seen a market
Speaker 4: impact of the idea that they'd support their homegrown talent.
Speaker 4: What else have we seen from the Chinese government to
Speaker 4: really foster the building of semiconductors that rival that at
Speaker 4: the age twenty.
Speaker 16: Right, Well, the Chinese have really poured a lot of
Speaker 16: money into its effort to develop a home grown you know,
Speaker 16: HILP industry, and we know that this is very much
Speaker 16: in line with the top leaders vision for the country
Speaker 16: that Chinese development and rise to national rejuvenation, as the
Speaker 16: Chinese would put it. A key to that is technological
Speaker 16: development and being able to rival the US in terms
Speaker 16: of technology and AI.
Speaker 10: So, you know, the Chinese have really made it very clear.
Speaker 17: That this has been a priority and this will continue
Speaker 17: to be a priority in terms of its economic development.
Speaker 17: But nevertheless, the capabilities that they have at home remain
Speaker 17: short of what USAI chips can provide.
Speaker 4: And briefly, where they do have the and outsized power
Speaker 4: is where else.
Speaker 5: Is that part of the bargaining ship, if at all.
Speaker 10: Yeah, so we've seen that.
Speaker 16: Really the Chinese themselves have been I think a bit
Speaker 16: surprised by how potent of a weapon the rare Earth's
Speaker 16: controls have been in these trade negotiations. Now, I think
Speaker 16: it's important to point out that the lifting of the
Speaker 16: sales of H twenty chips on the part of the
Speaker 16: Trump administration does not seem to have been linked to
Speaker 16: some sort of deal or concession from the Chinese side.
Speaker 17: The Chinese in fact issued a statement saying that it
Speaker 17: was not made as part of the deal, to make
Speaker 17: clear really to an audience that they did not offer
Speaker 17: any concessions for this. But in terms of rare earths
Speaker 17: and its role in the larger US China trade negotiations, absolutely,
Speaker 17: it's been very important, I think for the Chinese and
Speaker 17: realizing that they have this key piece of leverage, and
Speaker 17: I think for the Trump administration as well, and realizing
Speaker 17: that the US will remain dependent on Chinese rots and
Speaker 17: wrote earths processing technology.
Speaker 4: Amanda Schau from the Eurasia Group, thank you very much
Speaker 4: for joining today.
Speaker 5: Coming up a bit of a pivot, Tayta Swift.
Speaker 4: It turns across the internet with a surprise album announcement.
Speaker 5: That's next, there's a Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 10: So I wanted to show you something.
Speaker 7: Okay, what do we got? We got a briefcase.
Speaker 10: Yep, Mick Green, Yep.
Speaker 16: This is my brand new album, The Life of a
Speaker 16: Show Girl.
Speaker 10: So I wanted to show you something.
Speaker 3: Well, Swifties worldwide got a surprise from Taylor Swift, who
Speaker 3: announced her new album The Life of a show goal
Speaker 3: during a sneak peek of her appearance on the New
Speaker 3: Heights podcast with boyfriend Travis Kelce for more on the
Speaker 3: power of podcasting and the astonishing sights before My eyes
Speaker 3: Bloomberg Lucas Shaw, who leads screens on coverage. This has
Speaker 3: dominated Google trending, by the way, and most other social
Speaker 3: platforms for most of the time I've been awake. This
Speaker 3: is big. Tell me more.
Speaker 7: Could you sleep last night?
Speaker 18: Were you able to or were you just so excited
Speaker 18: that you had to stay up thinking about Taylor?
Speaker 2: That was Elon Musk related. Let's stick with Taylor please, thanks.
Speaker 18: I mean, look, she's the biggest pop star in the world.
Speaker 18: It's not even really close. She just wrapped her Era's tour,
Speaker 18: which is the best selling concert in music industry history,
Speaker 18: less than a year ago. I think there's a lot
Speaker 18: of debate speculation as to whether she would finally take
Speaker 18: a break, go away for a year or two, as
Speaker 18: some artists have been known to do, or if she
Speaker 18: would just keep going because she's been on kind of
Speaker 18: this crazy treadmill over the last five or six years,
Speaker 18: where it feels like she's got new music every year,
Speaker 18: if not more often than that she just had that
Speaker 18: big tour and here she is ready less than a
Speaker 18: year later, with a new album that I'm sure will
Speaker 18: break all types of records. And I do think it's
Speaker 18: interesting that she did it on her boyfriend's podcast.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so who wins here, Lucas the podcast underlying owner,
Speaker 4: but also the music labels that she's affiliated with.
Speaker 18: Well, that's actually a little bit of a complicated question
Speaker 18: because her music is released by Republic Records, which is
Speaker 18: a division of Universal Music Group. It's the biggest owner
Speaker 18: of all these different music companies.
Speaker 7: In the world.
Speaker 18: But from what we understand about her deal, she's definitely
Speaker 18: the big winner, right, she owns the ultimate copyright, She
Speaker 18: is the IP owner. Universal gets fees and revenue shares
Speaker 18: for releasing it, and so it's good for them, but
Speaker 18: it's not the same as when you have someone that
Speaker 18: you fully control and own.
Speaker 4: Well, we'll see how this one unfolds, and we're going
Speaker 4: to be able to all access it. Lucas Shaw, We
Speaker 4: thank you very much coming live for us on the news. Meanwhile,
Speaker 4: that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech Ed.
Speaker 4: You're not going to get any sleep tonight. Maybe, whether
Speaker 4: it's Elon or whether it's Taylor.
Speaker 3: Just like astonishing news flows, so much of it actually
Speaker 3: playing out on social media in the Internet as well,
Speaker 3: there's a lot to recap. Check out the podcast you
Speaker 3: know where to find it on the Bloomberg terminal as
Speaker 3: well as online on Apple, Spotify, and iHeart from samarn
Speaker 3: Oh from London.
Speaker 2: I just to say, in New York City, this is
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Tech