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Speaker 1: President Trump's abrupt firing of FBI dresser James Comey has

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Speaker 1: plunged the White House into another political crisis, as Democrats

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Speaker 1: call for a special prosecutor to lead the continuing investigation

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Speaker 1: into Russian interference in the presidential election. Today, a coalition

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Speaker 1: of twenty state attorneys general sent a letter to the

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Speaker 1: Justice Department's Deputy A. G. Rod Rosenstein and call for

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Speaker 1: the immediate appointment of an independent special counsel to continue

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Speaker 1: the investigation. At a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing this morning,

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Speaker 1: the acting Director of the FBI, Andrew McCabe, testified that

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Speaker 1: to date, there has been no effort to impede any

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Speaker 1: FBI investigation since Comby's firing. Simply put sir, you cannot

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Speaker 1: stop the men and women of the FBI from doing

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Speaker 1: the right thing, protecting the American people and upholding a constitution.

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Speaker 1: Joining us are Philip Bobbitt, Professor at Columbia Law School,

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Speaker 1: and Sanford Levinson, professor at the University of Texas Law School.

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Speaker 1: Phil As you heard, the acting FBI director said, there's

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Speaker 1: been no effort to impede any investigation to date. Could

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Speaker 1: that change with a new FBI director or with an

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Speaker 1: order from the A G. Of course that could change

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Speaker 1: and and uh, and there are many people who would

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Speaker 1: say that the firing of Jim Comey was an effort

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Speaker 1: to impede such an investigation. Sandy, how reassured for those

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Speaker 1: people who are concerned about the firing of Jim Comey,

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Speaker 1: how reassured should they be because of the things that

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Speaker 1: Andrew McCabe said. He also talked about how he talked

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Speaker 1: about how there's no effort to impede the investigation. The

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Speaker 1: men and women of the FBI won't be deterred. Um

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Speaker 1: is that reassuring? Um? I can jump in here. Um,

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Speaker 1: it is from one perspective that I actually do believe

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Speaker 1: that the FBI will be diligent in seeking out evidence

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Speaker 1: wherever it leads. But the point is, and this is

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Speaker 1: what got Comy into some trouble in the first place.

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Speaker 1: It's not the FBI decides whether or not to prosecute. Uh.

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Speaker 1: That's a subject for the Justice Department. And to put

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Speaker 1: it mildly, I think there is a lot of concern

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Speaker 1: about whether the Justice Department will be sufficiently independent to

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Speaker 1: make the decision to prosecute or not to prosecute. Unprofessional

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Speaker 1: rather than low Ley political grounds. Phil There have been

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Speaker 1: calls for an independent council, and Senator Richard Blumenthal, among others,

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Speaker 1: has said that he'll introduce legislation to re establish an

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Speaker 1: independent council if a special prosecutor isn't appointed one that existed,

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Speaker 1: similar to the one in the wake of Watergate. Another

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Speaker 1: option is an independent commission. How likely are any of

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Speaker 1: the to get through? My guess is at the likeliest

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Speaker 1: parent would be a Senate Select Committee. The next likely

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Speaker 1: would be an independent commission who's whose members were selected

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Speaker 1: in some kind of negotiations between the White House and

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Speaker 1: the Congress. That the least likely is a new statute

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Speaker 1: authorizing and independent council. And the reason for that is

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Speaker 1: because we've been there before. Not only are their doubts

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Speaker 1: about the constitutionality of such a statute, our experience with

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Speaker 1: it has not been a very wholesome one. Do you remember,

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Speaker 1: perhaps Judge starrs uh investigations of President Clinton. It's a

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Speaker 1: it's an unusual constitutional animal, sort of not really in

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Speaker 1: Article to or Article one or Article three. And it

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Speaker 1: seems to have a sort of an inertial force to

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Speaker 1: take on a scope that I think the Conress would

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Speaker 1: be unelikely to reauthorize Sandy. One other thing that Andrew

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Speaker 1: McCabe said today was something that seemed to contradict a

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Speaker 1: White House characterization. He described the Russia probe as quote

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Speaker 1: highly significant. Um, should we take those words to to

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Speaker 1: mean a whole lot? Are? Are those words themselves pretty significant? Well?

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Speaker 1: I mean it seems to me that any time the

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Speaker 1: acting director, who one has to assume is extraordinarily careful

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Speaker 1: about words used in the public hearing, uses the term

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Speaker 1: highly significant. Um, one has to take that seriously. I mean,

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Speaker 1: why why wouldn't you? And Phil Something else that contradicted

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Speaker 1: what's been said by the Trump administration. Andrew McCabe said

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Speaker 1: that working for Jim Comey was the greatest experience of

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Speaker 1: his life and the FBI, everyone in the FBI really,

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Speaker 1: you know, respected him, which is contrary with the White House.

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Speaker 1: He said, So, what's the impact of that we have

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Speaker 1: at thirty seconds? I think it's pretty unlikely that the

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Speaker 1: acting direct the FBI will be promoted. Excuse me said

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Speaker 1: that again, You're it's unlikely that I think your statement

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Speaker 1: just finished his promotion as the permanent director. He's gonna

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Speaker 1: he may be the acting only for a few more hours.

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Speaker 1: That's a something that enrages the White House. They were

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Speaker 1: pretty upset by Jim Comeby's refusal to give public reassurance

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Speaker 1: to the President and his concerns. They didn't like the

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Speaker 1: idea that called me undercut the White House on the

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Speaker 1: Obama wire tapping charges. Uh. I would imagine that Acting

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Speaker 1: Director McCay was already planning his upcoming vacation. We're talking

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Speaker 1: with Philip Bobbitt, Professor Columbia Law School and Sanford Levinson,

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Speaker 1: Professor at the University of Texas Law School about President

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Speaker 1: Trump's abrupt firing of FBI Director James Comey and the fallout.

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Speaker 1: Phil let me ask you this question. We know today

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Speaker 1: that the Deputy Attorney General Rod rosen Stein went to

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Speaker 1: meet with the heads of the Senate Intelligence Committee during

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Speaker 1: the hearing today. What do you make of that? Well,

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Speaker 1: it was a private meeting. I'm sure will will learn

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Speaker 1: more when rosen Stein goes up there next week. I

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Speaker 1: my guess is that he was asked by the by

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Speaker 1: Senator Warner in Senator burr Uh, do one agree he

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Speaker 1: would be able to cooperate with the investigations of the

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Speaker 1: Senate Committee. I think It's unlikely that they would have

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Speaker 1: expected him to say much about his private conversations with

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Speaker 1: the president. What they want to know is whether or

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Speaker 1: not the FBI can provide investigator assets to the committee.

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Speaker 1: The committee is a small staff. They can't possibly do

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Speaker 1: this investigation themselves, and that, by the way, is another

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Speaker 1: good reason for a select committee. Imagine that rot Stone

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Speaker 1: would reassure them. Sandy Levinson, there's been some talk that

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Speaker 1: Director former Director Comy might testify in the coming weeks.

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Speaker 1: If he did testify before Congress, what would he be

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Speaker 1: able to say about this investigation and the circumstances of

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Speaker 1: his firing? The honest answers, I really don't know that

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Speaker 1: that is say, I don't know how much he would

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Speaker 1: believe that, say, his conversations with the President of privileged UM.

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Speaker 1: Though inasmuch as the President in fact opened up the

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Speaker 1: inquiry by saying that he had been assured three times

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Speaker 1: said he wasn't a target, it would seem to me

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Speaker 1: that at the very least, uh former Director Comy could

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Speaker 1: say whether that's true or not without going to further details. UM.

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Speaker 1: But I would certainly expect him to be scrupulous, if

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Speaker 1: for no other reason than given this administration and this

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Speaker 1: Justice Department, including Jeff Sessions. Let's not forget the Jeff

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Speaker 1: Sessions is the attorney in general. Not Rosenstein um that

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Speaker 1: I would not put it past the Trump administration to

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Speaker 1: try to prosecute Comy if they believed that he was

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Speaker 1: leaking confidential information that was protected, and so Senate Majority

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Speaker 1: Leader go ahead. The presidents just just within the last

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Speaker 1: few minutes at least on CNN has come out and

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Speaker 1: said that call Me requested a meeting with him, they

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Speaker 1: had dinner together, that Camy asked to be reappointed, and

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Speaker 1: that in that context he assured the President that he

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Speaker 1: was not under investigation. President further said that they had

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Speaker 1: two subs telephone calls, one initiated by Comy, one initiated

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Speaker 1: by the President, but at least one of those, the

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Speaker 1: President asked him directly whether or not the President was

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Speaker 1: subject to investigation, and they Calmy said no. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's Sandy suggesting if there was a problem with

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Speaker 1: the privilege of these conversations, as I think they probably

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Speaker 1: would have been, that's out the window. The President has

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Speaker 1: totally waived his privilege now by making these claims about

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Speaker 1: about Callmey's statements, and let's go to a Senate Majority leader,

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Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell, who we know wields a lot of power.

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Speaker 1: He said that a new investigation by a special prosecutor

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Speaker 1: would impede the current work being done by the FBI

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Speaker 1: and the Senate Intelligence Committee. Do you find phil any

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Speaker 1: uh any uh, let's say veracity in that. Do you

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Speaker 1: think there's anything to that? Yeah, I don't think that's

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Speaker 1: that's uh, I don't think that's crazy. Uh. You've immediately

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Speaker 1: run into special counsel questioning witnesses, and you have a

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Speaker 1: set staff or uh, selective staff doing the same thing.

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Speaker 1: We had problems like this with the Iran Contra investigation. Now,

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Speaker 1: whether or not that's the real basis for his decision

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Speaker 1: maybe uh more controversial, but as a reason that I

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Speaker 1: think there's something to that, Sandy. Senator Mike Lee made

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Speaker 1: an interesting suggestion today. He suggested the possibility of Merrick

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Speaker 1: Garland as the new FBI director, and apparently Senator Klobuchar

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Speaker 1: uh suggested a Democrat suggested she thought that was a

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Speaker 1: good idea. I confess I'm I don't see that as

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Speaker 1: very likely, but I'm wondering if you think it might

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Speaker 1: have more merit as an idea than than I do.

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Speaker 1: Oh sure, you know. I think that once we've entered

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Speaker 1: into this era of truly surrealistic politics, why not Merritt Garland. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He would certainly be reassuring that everybody, at least prior

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Speaker 1: to his nomination agreed that he was a person of

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Speaker 1: unimpeachable integrity. He's a former prosecutor, um, so I would

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Speaker 1: have great trust in Merrick Garland. I find it very

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Speaker 1: hard to believe that Donald Trump would find Garland to

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Speaker 1: be an attractive nominee. But who knows, well, Phil would

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Speaker 1: Merrick Garland, who is the chief judge of the court

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Speaker 1: that is considered just below the Supreme Court, I want

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Speaker 1: to do that kind of a job. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what he'd want to do it, but I agree with

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Speaker 1: Santa help be a a superb choice. And my experience

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Speaker 1: with Judge Garland is that he is above all a

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Speaker 1: public servant, a very patriotic, a total of person totally

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Speaker 1: devoted to the public interest. So if he were asked,

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Speaker 1: I think he might welcome up the chief judy ship

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Speaker 1: if he felt it would contribute to the welfare of

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Speaker 1: the country. Well, that's something that we will see in

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Speaker 1: the future to two different uh uh positions, certainly, Um,

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Speaker 1: thank you both for being on Bloomberg Law. That's Sanford Levinson,

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Speaker 1: he's a professor at the University of Texas Law School.

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Speaker 1: And Philip Bobb and he's a professor at Columbia Law School.

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Speaker 1: Coming up on Bloomberg Law. A win for environmentalist. The

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Speaker 1: Senate unexpectedly keeps an Obama error rule to regulate methane

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Speaker 1: emissions from drilling, and it was a very close vote.

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Speaker 1: That's coming up on Bloomberg Law. I'm June Grosser with

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Speaker 1: Greg Store. This is Bloomberg